It Takes Two to Tangle

ByTrisidium

It Takes Two to Tangle

 Guest Blog by Auldheid

When helping write up the previous blog on the matter of the (mis) commissioning by Harper Macleod, lawyers to the then SPL and current SPFL, of the Lord Nimmo Smith’s investigation into side letters arising from EBTs issued by Rangers FC from July 1999 (http://archive.sfm.scot/an-honest-game-convince-us/ ) .

I had it in mind that only the SFA had something to hide as a result of their President Campbell Ogilvie being fully aware of the history and distinction between the two illegal Rangers Employee Benefit Trust (REBT ) ebts of wee tax case fame not declared to Harper Macleod and the more widely known Murray Group Management Remuneration Trust (MGMRT) Big Tax Case ebts which were declared and on which LNS focussed after (wrongly)treating both types as regular.

The idea that I think most bought into in terms of the registration matters LNS investigated was that no one in football except players with side letters had participated in those schemes and that football authority, both SFA and SPL were unaware of them until their existence became public in Feb 2012. This is when the Sun first published a side letter and the possibility of mis-registration was raised, notably on Celtic Quick News then more widely particularly following an interview between Alex Thomson of Ch4 News and Hugh Adam an ex Rangers Director.

However when you think of the world of Scottish football where players socialise with each other and with journalists, then it does seem stretching it a bit to think that no one in football authority ever heard any gossip or had any enquiry and decided not to investigate the matter before 2012.

Well Rangers Administrators Duff and Phelps thought so and their lawyers Biggart Bailie asked Harper Mcleod in March 2012 why the SPL had not investigated a lot earlier on the basis that

  1. There had been entries every year since 2000 in Rangers Annual Accounts of sums of money being placed in employee benefit trusts
  2. HMRC had written to the SPL at some unknown point in the past to ask about the existence of side letters in players’ contracts.

The first argument on annual accounts was one made once public awareness of ebts widened but it was dismissed on the grounds that no one knew much about ebts in those early years and in any case properly administered ones, which they would have been presumed to have been, did not have side letters.

However it does seem likely that having written to MIH/Rangers in 2005 to enquire about the existence of side letters to De Boer and Flo (which MIH/Rangers denied holding even though they did) HMRC would have written to the SFA or SPL sometime after 2005 whenever they first became aware of side letters in players contracts with regards to the MGRT ebts of Big Tax Case fame..

That the SPL had been contacted two or three years previous to 2012 by HMRC was confirmed at a SPL Board meeting in March 2012 as a result of a question being asked by Celtic, who were unaware in 2012 that such an HMRC enquiry had been made in 2009 or 2010.  It is possible of course that the connection to misregistration was not made then by the SPL executive asked, but had it been history could have been so different.

How that HMRC enquiry and what it contained was handled by the SPL executive perhaps explains not only why the SPL were so keen to take the lead on the investigation but why they were unaware of the different types of ebts at play, the enquiry in 2009/2010 presumably relating only to the MGMRT type.

The motivation of the SPL executive can be read into their advice to the SPL Board on 23rd February 2012 to instruct an immediate inspection and investigation of the financial records of Rangers with respect to the ebt payments under SPL Rule F1 and under Section G of the Rules on the basis that such an inspection and investigation might reveal prima facie evidence of a breach of SPL Rules independently of any Administrator decision or the outcome of the FTT.

The SPL Board were further advised that taking the lead on such grounds would also go some way to forestalling any attempt by the SFA to include any dependency on the outcome of either Rangers Administration (which they entered on 14th February) or the result of the FTT, (which came in November 2012.)

The desire and benefits of delinking what was at heart a registration enquiry   from the much more serious use of tax evasion methods to pay players was obviously not lost on those giving the advice.

In fact in directing LNS in the way the SPL did (possibly unaware that tax evasion had already occurred with Flo and De Boer) it avoided focus on the real and still unresolved issue, were players paid by unfair means from 1999 from which sporting advantage would naturally accrue with no need for proof that it had. You cannot say this had not been thought through in the advice given.

It was also the SPL’ stance that matters concerning player payments had traditionally been considered to be for leagues.

The narrative emerging here is one of the two football authorities keeping from public gaze what individuals in both, if not the whole organisations corporately, knew about the history of ebts; the SFA knowing the history of both types from 1999/2000 onwards and the SPL possibly only knowing something of the MGMRT ebts and side letters from 2009/10 as a result of HMRC asking them questions.

Thus it suited the SFA that the SPL take the lead as much as it suited the SPL to do so but for different reasons. The SFA to keep the existence of the wee tax case ebts hidden from public view and LNS scrutiny and the SPL to avoid answering any “when did they know and why did they not act” questions.

Also if the SPL were indeed unaware of the two distinct types of ebts at play (and they may indeed have been), it explains why they never picked up that the earlier illegal ebts were missed/concealed from them by Rangers Administrators.

Perhaps the SPL and SFA were aware of the benefits to them of focusing only on the registration aspect. This could be presented as an administrative error (which LNS basically decided) rather than the possible illegal nature of the big tax case ebts after the FTT (and which might still arise from the UTT) which would present both with much more difficult and unwelcome consequences to manage and certainly would have changed the nature of the investigation from the outset had the full evidence been provided.

However unless the questions put to the SPFL in the previous blog are answered, we will never know who did what and why, but we at least will know that the LNS Investigation and its findings were a sham from the outset and should be set aside.

 

Perhaps BDO who are investigating the role and behaviour of Duff and Phelps according to the latest report on their work should be asking Duff and Phelps about the circumstances surrounding the concealment of vital evidence from the LNS Commission?

Och why not?

To the BDO partner investigating. Dated 9th June by web site e mail

“ I see that BDO are carrying out a probe into the conduct of administrators Duff & Phelps. Does that cover the failure to supply SPL with full documentation requested to investigate side letters in 2012?

See http://www.tsfm.net/an-honest-game-convince-us/ for background. Missing evidence is available. ”

PS: I did try to ascertain if HMRC did indeed write to the SPL and when, but they were unable to confirm or deny that they had. The enquiry and response follow. The question on who is responsible for HMRC policy in respect of collection of tax from football clubs was not given but probably due more to an oversight than any attempt to stop the question being answered.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

About the author

Trisidium administrator

Trisidium is a Dunblane businessman with a keen interest in Scottish Football. He is a Celtic fan, although the demands of modern-day parenting have seen him less at games and more as a taxi service for his kids.

1,247 Comments so far

scottcPosted on9:17 am - Jun 29, 2014


Tartanwulver says:
June 29, 2014 at 8:51 am

Two things occur to me:
1. Is someone using a ‘journalist’ to send a message to Ally that real Rangers men would do a job for nothing if it came to it, and

The Easdales are not taking an income from TRFC/RIFC and they seem to be getting some stick anyway

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Danish PastryPosted on9:38 am - Jun 29, 2014


Tartanwulver says:
June 29, 2014 at 8:51 am
3 0 Rate This

Two things occur to me:
1. Is someone using a ‘journalist’ to send a message to Ally that real Rangers men would do a job for nothing if it came to it …
———–

That’s a conspiratorial thought that hadn’t occurred to me so early 😆 Do Souness and McCoist get on?

@scottc I was looking at the SoS twitter and Facebook last night (I was awaiting the arrival of 27 pretty drunk Danish ‘studenter’ on a lorry for ‘refreshments’ in our garden. Jings.) and the abuse these guys get is also appalling. I know there is a lot of cynicism about them, even on here, but they can’t be faulted for effort. You would think Craig Houston (?) would have had his fill of it by now.

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Paulmac2Posted on11:27 am - Jun 29, 2014


Aquinas says:
June 28, 2014 at 1:03 pm
…………………………
I would never use the word fine to describe Asbestos in any form…however I take your point that in a solid state it is considered safe..but it does not have to smashed up to become unsafe…

Damage and deterioration will increase the friability of asbestos-containing materials. Water damage, continual vibration, aging, and physical impact such as drilling, grinding, buffing, cutting, sawing, or striking can break the materials down making fiber release more likely….and thus dangerous..

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Cluster OnePosted on11:39 am - Jun 29, 2014


Aquinas says:

June 29, 2014 at 1:55 am
cluster1, if you must inform yourself by reading ‘news’ from the Daily Record at least read all the article,

I did and it said “One of Scotland’s leading experts on the deadly substance said the site must be completely sealed off before specialists inspect the entire area”
HOPE THIS HELPS 🙂
Bring on your ‘land issues’ at Celtic Park, I’m bored. :mrgreen:

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mungoboyPosted on11:41 am - Jun 29, 2014


Danish,
Were your 27 studenter pretty drunk or pretty AND drunk?
A comma makes all the difference to my ageing febrile imagination!
Either way, hope they had fun.

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StevieBCPosted on11:46 am - Jun 29, 2014


…But Souness… believes he would return to the club if Kennedy took charge…offering his services for free.
Souness told Radio Scotland: “I’d go work there for nothing…”
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/graeme-souness-ill-return-rangers-3783666
======================================================
Souness offering to work free for the Govan club?
For sure…Souness must be 110% confident that Kennedy will not buy the club. Again. Absolutely. 🙄

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AllyjamboPosted on12:40 pm - Jun 29, 2014


Because he is such a clown, I’m sure we would all love to ‘feed’ Chick Young a sensational story that we know to be absolute mince, in the knowledge he will print anything he believes to be good news for an Ibrox club. I see no reason why Graeme Souness wouldn’t feel the same, especially over a drink or two. Besides, if there was a genuine consortium planning a take-over, I doubt they’d choose such a poorly thought of ‘journalist’ as Chick Young to leak the news through. If Young was chosen to ‘leak’ this info it’s more likely at the behest of the current board to encourage supporters to do their bit to keep the club running.

On the off chance that there is some truth in the leak, I’d suspect that there wouldn’t be any more than around £5m on offer with a share issue (yes, another one) planned to cover the shortfall. In the meantime, the more shares that are sold, the more money that has to be recovered in the event of a sale!

If the rights issue goes ahead we can be even more certain that this latest Chickism is pure Chick, as, if there was an offer on the table for, say, £20m, who is going to invest a further hoped for total of £8m, just to get their hands on a share of that £20m?

Damn, I’m writing this as though there is actually some possibility that the story will go any further! King’s gone off the scene, another ‘saviour’ has to be found for the masses to drool over, that’s all!

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Carfins FinestPosted on12:48 pm - Jun 29, 2014


Chick Youngs latest utterings are proof that so called journalists in this country are still quietley confident that a millionaire saviour will be found and they are all desperate to be the one to break the great news story to the world. However I think most of TRFC’s fans are well aware that there is no great saviour on the way anytime soon and the efforts of journos like Chic Young are just a waste of time.

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AllyjamboPosted on12:56 pm - Jun 29, 2014


Hands up time from me. I’ve only just read the actual article (I don’t like reading Chick Young’s rubbish and was just going on what I’d read here). There is actually nothing in it, absolutely! Not once does Souness even hint that there is a possibility of Kennedy getting involved, just that Souness is of the opinion that he might do – ” “If the circumstances were right again I think he’d have another go,” Souness told BBC Radio Scotland.”

There is no mention of what these right circumstances might be. Liquidation, perhaps? For that is the only circumstance he’s had any sort of ‘go’ in before.

Oh Chick, you are such a buffoon. You’ve done more to misguide and give false hope to your fellow bears than any spiv could ever have hoped for, and you continue to do so.

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AllyjamboPosted on1:44 pm - Jun 29, 2014


Brian Kennedy‏@Brian__Kennedy ·
One thing I can divulge at this juncture is the unveiling of a new fans group, “Rangers Fans United” which will go live next week.

Surely this is a fake tweet. Though I hope not. A new Rangers fans group is just what we need. Why bother with ‘divide and conquer’ when the ‘enemy’ does it to themselves. Bit of a misnomer if it is genuine, ‘Rangers fans united’, as all it will do is to dis-unite the fans even further.

But no, it can’t be real, Brian Kennedy is a serious businessman!



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AquinasPosted on1:45 pm - Jun 29, 2014


My point being, ‘specialsts’ are not about to dig up the east end, and if you find a wee bit, dont eat it!

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paulsatimPosted on1:56 pm - Jun 29, 2014


Allyjambo says:
June 29, 2014 at 1:44 pm
1 0 Rate This

Brian Kennedy‏@Brian__Kennedy ·
One thing I can divulge at this juncture is the unveiling of a new fans group, “Rangers Fans United” which will go live next week.
===========================

‘A daft unerringness.’, has a certain ring to it!

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Resin_lab_dogPosted on1:59 pm - Jun 29, 2014


Allyjambo says:
June 29, 2014 at 1:44 pm

1

0

Rate This

Brian Kennedy‏@Brian__Kennedy ·
One thing I can divulge at this juncture is the unveiling of a new fans group, “Rangers Fans United” which will go live next week.

Surely this is a fake tweet. Though I hope not. A new Rangers fans group is just what we need. Why bother with ‘divide and conquer’ when the ‘enemy’ does it to themselves. Bit of a misnomer if it is genuine, ‘Rangers fans united’, as all it will do is to dis-unite the fans even further.

But no, it can’t be real, Brian Kennedy is a serious businessman!



__________________________________________

“SPLITTERS!”

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scottcPosted on2:32 pm - Jun 29, 2014


Allyjambo says:
June 29, 2014 at 1:44 pm

Brian Kennedy‏@Brian__Kennedy ·
One thing I can divulge at this juncture is the unveiling of a new fans group, “Rangers Fans United” which will go live next week.

That will be a flop as the TRFC fans are boycotting all things ‘United’

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oddjobPosted on2:37 pm - Jun 29, 2014


You would think C”hic would have asked some searching questions, like “when did you last see Brian” or ” does he keep you posted by phone” ,”maybe a wee email now and again” ” how do you know he wants to takeover”—–oh the taxi driver!!! Wis it a black taxi, no a mini cab, that’s ok then”
C”hic due to malt intake .

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StevieBCPosted on2:39 pm - Jun 29, 2014


A quirky story about a competition winner – who designed the original change to a yellow strip for Brasil in 1953. And his comment below sounds familiar wrt Scottish football governance…

“…Does Schlee, (the designer), feel any pride? “No. The truth, I think, is that it was never that important to me. Perhaps I feel a little guilty, actually, for creating something that is not as pure as it was once, something that now is about money.”…
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-27809268

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Danish PastryPosted on2:57 pm - Jun 29, 2014


mungoboy says:
June 29, 2014 at 11:41 am
5 0 Rate This

Danish,
Were your 27 studenter pretty drunk or pretty AND drunk?
A comma makes all the difference to my ageing febrile imagination!
Either way, hope they had fun.
———–

OT, look away now …

They had lots of fun. Although we were only one of the 27 homes visited. It is a huge event in the lives of young people here — and a wonderful celebration of youth and academic achievement on leaving ‘gymnasium’ after 3 years. I contrast it a bit with 18-year-olds in the UK. Is leaving secondary school celebrated these days? Certainly not in my day. The students get a ‘studenterhue’ which is a kind of graduation hat. New ‘studenter’ wear their hats everywhere, people smile to them and congratulate them. And fortunately our high taxes mean that the next generation gets a free university education and generous student support. Scotland is in tune with the Nordic countries on this.

On their final day there is something called ‘translokation’ (sounds a bit Star Treky to me), after the ceremony we waved 9 lorries for the 9 graduating classes on their way. First-year students decorate the lorries with birch branches, large signs, and most had a travelling DJ on board offering instant tinnitus.

Each home offers a wee refreshment and food. The lorry was like a mobile disco when it arrived here after dark. We (er … Mrs Pastry) had, sensibly, made brownies and fruit sticks. We offered soft drinks and only a little Sommersby. No one threw up though they were all very jolly, and the girls all wanted to use the facilities, immediately. Yes, they were all very pretty and/or handsome. The girls buy cute dresses for the occasion, usually white or cream-coloured. The lads were all casual-smart. Twenty minutes and they were off into the night again. Memories forever.

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RobbypPosted on3:01 pm - Jun 29, 2014


This latest revelation from DR fails to explain exactly which salary free roles Graeme and Walter would occupy. Given that Sevco already has a manager (albeit useless and expensive) but who apparently has a watertight contract, and the immanent arrival of Christian Nerlinger as Director of Football, I cannot see what position either of these two could occupy, even if they were to work for nothing. Maybe they’re predicting the outcome of the UTT appeal and are investigating a way of paying back their ‘loans’ in lieu of hours worked. Ha! Of course there is the possibility that Walter’s previous experience of recommending season tickets to the unwitting is being utilised by the current board. “Roll up! Roll up! Get yer tickets here! The leg-ends are back!” etc. etc.

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Cluster OnePosted on3:08 pm - Jun 29, 2014


Aquinas says:

June 29, 2014 at 1:45 pm
My point being, ‘specialsts’ are not about to dig up the east end, and if you find a wee bit, dont eat it!

Good advice 😉

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JimBhoyPosted on3:09 pm - Jun 29, 2014


Kennedy is a business man and has no emotional attachment to rangers, why would he touch that basket-case of a club. They had a one of chance to get things right and blew it, everything else that comes is just buying time.

He and DK can maybe fight over who picks up the pieces after liquidation, there may be more opportunities to be hailed as a saviour and screw some more out of the fans by using certain phraseology and rattling a few shields..

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CampbellsmoneyPosted on3:14 pm - Jun 29, 2014


RFU

Not a bad name for a fan group involved with a rugby fan businessman based in England.

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mungoboyPosted on3:26 pm - Jun 29, 2014


Danish, a wonderful explanation of Danish culture.
This site truly is a source of education to us all. Keep it up.
In other news, re the comments about Souey working for nothing, I have to say that the moral and ethical high ground is not a place which will ever trouble the footsteps of Mr Souness.
On Merseyside he is still reviled for selling his story to the Sun following his health battles and heart surgery.
You would think that anyone connected to LFC would be more than aware of where the Sun stands on Merseyside but, no, Mr Souness just went for the highest fee which was Rupert’s.
Money would appear to be rather important to Mr Souness so, in my opinion, the very idea that he would do something for nothing is risible.
Weren’t they charging the gullible £30 a head to listen to his musings at the Louden?
Maybe if he ever gets on Desert Island Discs he’d have them play Abba’s ‘Money,Money,Money” for him.
I know a few people here on Merseyside who’d row him there themselves!

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AllyjamboPosted on3:45 pm - Jun 29, 2014


Campbellsmoney says:
June 29, 2014 at 3:14 pm

Though Stockport County supporters didn’t seem very ‘united’ with Kennedy when he was there, describing him as a ‘serial club killer’. http://www.stockport.vitalfootball.co.uk/article.asp?a=229419

Hmm, where have we heard this suggestion before? Surely Brian Kennedy isn’t into taking football grounds in settlement of debt, then renting them back at a rent the club can’t afford:-

‘While sources at County claim there is no debt beyond what is owed to shareholders, the prime anger for supporters is rooted in the draining of assets. Brian Kennedy, a Scottish millionaire who also owns Sale Sharks – which until last year ground-shared before moving to the City of Salford Stadium – sold the club in 2005 to the supporters’ trust for £1. But Kennedy retained Edgeley Park for which County pay rent to his company, Cheshire Sport, with the current sum around £12,500 a month.’ http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2013/mar/29/stockport-county-paying-price-chaos

I believe some football fans around Stockport still see Brian Kennedy as their Charles Green/Craig Whyte.

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Carfins FinestPosted on3:46 pm - Jun 29, 2014


From KDS. Quite pertinant as far as Res. 12 Goes.

http://au.eurosport.com/football/champions-league/2012-2013/uefa-bans-red-star-belgrade-from-champions-league_sto4276577/story.shtml

UEFA bans Red Star Belgrade from Champions League

By Reuters
Red Star Belgrade reached their lowest ebb on Friday when UEFA banned the 1991 European Cup winners from next season’s Champions League because of unpaid bills but senior officials said the club would launch an appeal.

UEFA explained that Red Star were in breach of a number of licensing and Financial Fair Play rules after looking into a complaint that they were behind on payments.

“My first reaction is UEFA has shown no understanding for our situation because this is an accumulated debt for which the club’s present leadership is not responsible,” vice-president Ivica Toncev told reporters. “It was always going to be an uphill battle but we will exercise our right to appeal to the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS).”

Red Star, who last month won their first Serbian league title since 2007, have suffered a rapid financial decline in the past decade and were also in turmoil earlier this week when several players complained their wages were late.

Slovenia midfielder Nejc Pecnik and left back Nikola Mijailovic said they had bought food and household goods from their own savings. Red Star’s debt to creditors as well as former players and coaches has been estimated at more than 50 million euros (£40.6 million), a large sum by the standards of Serbia’s ramshackle infrastructure.

Over the past seven years, when bitter city foes Partizan wrestled away domestic supremacy by landing six successive league titles, Red Star have often lacked the means for even the most basic needs such as hotel accommodation the night before a match.
With former Manchester United captain Nemanja Vidic the last big name to have come from the Belgrade club’s ranks after he joined Spartak Moscow in 2004, transfer earnings have dwindled and costs have soared and they have been unable to balance their finances from meagre gate revenue and sponsorship deals.
“There is nothing worse than not being able to play in Europe’s premier club competition after winning the domestic title and this is a very sad day,” said former international midfielder Milos Ninkovic.
“It shouldn’t have ended like this after a great year on the pitch but it might be a blessing in disguise.

The entire first team will probably go our separate ways but let’s wait and see what happens in the next few days.” Red Star had been due to enter next season’s Champions League in the second qualifying round.

UEFA said it would also investigate the Serbian Football Association (FSS) for licensing Red Star to play in the Champions League despite being aware that the club were in violation of financial rules. “We granted the licence as we maintained Red Star’s position was barely acceptable but we also assessed that playing in Europe’s top-tier competition was the fast track to the club’s recovery,” the FSS said in a statement. “We are surprised with UEFA’s course of action against the FSS while we also maintain that kicking Red Star out of Europe is a bitter blow to Serbian football in general.”

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Danish PastryPosted on3:50 pm - Jun 29, 2014


mungoboy says:
June 29, 2014 at 3:26 pm
1 0 Rate This
———-

Cheers mungoboy.

Souness is a bit of an enigma. Seemed a decent player in his day, although in retrospect the sort of chap the current Honduras or Uruguay might use.

For me his management is synonymous with the era of waste, over-spending and a down-turn in opportunities for home-grown players. At least that’s how it seemed. Not sure his man-management skills were the most refined either. And why on earth he was on EBTs long after leaving Ibrox is everyone’s favourite mystery.

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whispererPosted on4:12 pm - Jun 29, 2014


Being fascinated by coincidental numbers does my post of yesterday

Time 12.21 … Rated … 14 Up 14 Down

Does that make my argument BALANCED ? ? ?

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AllyjamboPosted on4:32 pm - Jun 29, 2014


Carfins Finest says:
June 29, 2014 at 3:46 pm

Now doesn’t this seem familiar. Seems to me the Serbian FA are admitting to (albeit as an excuse) something many on here have accused the SFA of in licensing Rangers for European competition. :-

“UEFA said it would also investigate the Serbian Football Association (FSS) for licensing Red Star to play in the Champions League despite being aware that the club were in violation of financial rules. “We granted the licence as we maintained Red Star’s position was barely acceptable but we also assessed that playing in Europe’s top-tier competition was the fast track to the club’s recovery,” the FSS said in a statement.”

“Fast track to the club’s recovery, Craig.” I can almost here Ogilvie or Regan saying those very words!

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twopandaPosted on4:52 pm - Jun 29, 2014


TSFM says:
June 28, 2014 at 11:10 am [edit]

On other matters which have been discussed of late, I think it is now beyond doubt that someone somewhere is putting cash into TRFC……

….It seems certain, and a ‘Chic Young’ confirmatory nod has been dispensed in our direction, that cash has been made available by interests who are violently opposed to the scuttling of the ship…….

………..I am fairly certain that any shareholder request to open the books would be problematic for the TRFC board………………..

We can certainly be sure of one thing. TRFC is not running on air, or credit from a bank. They MUST be getting money from somewhere. I suspect that the silence is due to what measures they will be forced to take to pay it back.

_

Catching up – apols
Wow – Blimey!
How long could such go on?

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upthehoopsPosted on5:15 pm - Jun 29, 2014


Allyjambo says:
June 29, 2014 at 4:32 pm
1 0 Rate This

Now doesn’t this seem familiar. Seems to me the Serbian FA are admitting to (albeit as an excuse) something many on here have accused the SFA of in licensing Rangers for European competition. :-

“UEFA said it would also investigate the Serbian Football Association (FSS) for licensing Red Star to play in the Champions League despite being aware that the club were in violation of financial rules. “We granted the licence as we maintained Red Star’s position was barely acceptable but we also assessed that playing in Europe’s top-tier competition was the fast track to the club’s recovery,” the FSS said in a statement.”

“Fast track to the club’s recovery, Craig.” I can almost here Ogilvie or Regan saying those very words!
==========================================

Perhaps Auldheid will be able to reassure me but I am struggling to envisage the SFA ever admitting any wrongdoing as part of resolution 12. Unless they can play the admin error part or that Rangers conned them, but Charlotte did show us some e-mails alleging the SFA knew they were on shaky ground and were even allegedly clearing press statements with the club prior to issue. If they knew deep down they shouldn’t have issued the licence and still went ahead that to me would be seismic. In the hypothetical situation you suggest that they were trying to earn Rangers money that opens a can of worms the lid would never be put back on, but it’s hypothetical at the moment. Going back to my original point for them to admit anything means they deliberately cost other Scottish clubs the chance to earn money in European football. What is encouraging though in the Red Star example is that UEFA may look upon it differently. Auldheid has said previously it’s next stop UEFA if the SFA keep up their current stance. I’m sure I read recently there may be something tangible to report re Resolution 12 by end July. Perhaps the report will be that it’s next stop UEFA while Regan and Ogilvie keep up the favoured policy of the ostrich!

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AuldheidPosted on5:49 pm - Jun 29, 2014


Carfin Finest

I loved the line the Serbian FA gave in their defense in the last para.

I paraphrase ” Red Star need CL money to stay alive”

I wonder how the SFA will defend their approach to administering fair play?

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twopandaPosted on5:59 pm - Jun 29, 2014


I do wonder [gosh no] if Charlie’s `bought history` has something Uefa are shy about from `05

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wottpiPosted on6:02 pm - Jun 29, 2014


Auldheid says:
June 29, 2014 at 5:49 pm
0 0 Rate This

Carfin Finest

I loved the line the Serbian FA gave in their defense in the last para.

I paraphrase ” Red Star need CL money to stay alive”

I wonder how the SFA will defend their approach to administering fair play?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I note that there was similar sentiments in last night’s game where folks on the TV were beginning to worry about the prospect of the host nation being knocked out.

I appreciate what they were getting it in terms of maybe loosing some atmosphere etc however the tournament is surely bigger than any one nation, even the mighty Brazil.

I doubt there will be such concerns if Qatar go out at the group stage!!

The football authorities and the media are all geared up to see the big boys succeed and to hell with good honest sporting endeavour from smaller clubs and nations like Chile.

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BarcabhoyPosted on6:08 pm - Jun 29, 2014


There is an interesting example of why English Football is an immoral basket case in a news story from today.

Lyle Taylor is reported to be signing for Scunthorpe after rejecting an approach from Partick Thistle.

Scunthorpe play in the 3rd tier of English Football . Thistle in the top tier of Scottish Football. The normal response is that SPFL top tier clubs (Celtic aside) can’t compete with even tier 3 teams from England.

That is wrong. What is correct is that English clubs continue to spend recklessly , with wages often outstripping total turnover.

Let me provide the financials to compare Scunthorpe with Thistle.

In the last 4 years Thistle have made a small profit each season. Unfortunately Thistle do not publish their turnover or wages figure ( as an aside i would criticise them for that) . However it’s clear Thistle are a well run club who live within their means. I would estimate their turnover at somewhere slightly north of £3 million as an SPL club , and as they make a profit each year then its clear they probably have a wages / turnover ratio of around or under 60%

Scunthorpe do publish turnover and wages data, however thats the only area you can give them any credit for.

Turnover in the last published accounts was £2.4 million . Wages were £3.02 million . The club lost £1.5 million last year and has lost over £3.5 million in the last 2 years. It has negative retained reserves and is only “solvent ” on the balance sheet thanks to the valuation attached to their stadium. ( Readers of this blog will be well aware of how that scenario usually ends)

In Summary Scunthorpe are a very small club who are spending vastly more than they earn. They are in a precarious financial situation, yet they still continue to outbid well run and solvent Scottish Clubs .

Scunthorpe are by no means unique in the lower tiers in England, in fact they are just doing what almost every other club does. They gamble that they can get a promotion, and bring themselves close to terminal decline in the process.

English football club owners collectively have to be one of the stupidest group of people on the planet.

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AuldheidPosted on6:13 pm - Jun 29, 2014


Upthehoops

The whole point about Res12 is to get around any attempt by the SFA to avoid coming clean, by Celtic voting for the Resolution and asking the UEFA CFCB to investigate using their powers to demand sight of the information whose existence the SFA are refusing to recognise.

A greater parallel than Red Star is Malaga in 2012 who admitted unpaid tax but said were in talks with Spanish tax authorities but UEFA then started to investigate the Malaga position and insisted tax be paid before Malaga could play in future UEFA tournaments.

Somehow at exactly the same time in the process a year earlier in 2011 the status of the tax bill as an overdue payable could not have been admitted ( or was fudged) as an overdue payable at 30th June as UEFA not only did not investigate but removed need for Rangers to provide future financial forecasts, the opposite of what happened with Malaga.

What Rangers said in their declaration of their position re unpaid tax under Art66 on 30th June is crucial to establishing if SFA were duped or adopted the Serbian FA attitude.

Res12 will establish the truth either that the SFA were duped or that they failed to apply due diligence to their monitoring responsibilities. The e mails of Dec 2011 you mention suggest skullduggery and demand an explanation from Regan and Ogilvie.

Celtic can only vote against Res12 if SFA can prove to them and shareholders that at 30th June the tax bill was not an overdue payable as Art66 and Annex VIII define it.

From the paperwork they will have a job, but they are experts at twisting the rules to suit.

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upthehoopsPosted on6:46 pm - Jun 29, 2014


Auldheid says:
June 29, 2014 at 6:13 pm
==========================
Thanks Auldheid.

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justbecauseyoureparanoidPosted on7:40 pm - Jun 29, 2014


upthehoops says:
June 29, 2014 at 6:46 pm
2 0 Rate This
Auldheid says:
June 29, 2014 at 6:13 pm
==========================
Thanks Auldheid.

From me too

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Kicker ConspiracyPosted on11:17 pm - Jun 29, 2014


Been on UEFA’s website looking at the draw for Euro 2016 qualifying.

There are some political conditions on who couldn’t be drawn against each other – namely Spain/Gibraltar and Armenia/Azerbaijan but what caught my cynical eye was this:

Draw conditions
The following conditions apply:
Centralisation of rights by UEFA: For TV reasons, England, Germany, Italy, Spain and the Netherlands shall be drawn into groups of 6 teams.
The last team to be drawn among the remaining teams in Pot 1 will be allocated to Group I composed of 5 teams.

There’s only one 5 team group, to which France are nominally added so that they have friendlies to play.

Obviously the Champions League is heavily and brazenly gerrymandered to suit large TV markets but I never realised that UEFA are happy to let TV considerations dictate European Championship groups too.

Suppose I should have known better.

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Resin_lab_dogPosted on12:21 am - Jun 30, 2014


mungoboy says:
June 29, 2014 at 3:26 pm

22

0

Rate This

Danish, a wonderful explanation of Danish culture.
This site truly is a source of education to us all. Keep it up.
In other news, re the comments about Souey working for nothing, I have to say that the moral and ethical high ground is not a place which will ever trouble the footsteps of Mr Souness.
On Merseyside he is still reviled for selling his story to the Sun following his health battles and heart surgery.

__________________________________________________

Doesn’t have too many friends on Tyneside either.
… I mean, the Sainted Sir Bobby’s shoes were hard ones to fill, but the way Souness spent £50m to take Newcastle from top 5 to bottom 5 while the club he left (Blackburn) managed the opposite feat merely by dint of being relieved of his services did not enamour him to the denizens of St. James.
The egregious £8m Boumsong rip off-still rankles. And as for Albert Luque??? How much of that £9m ended up somewhere other than where it was intended?
Just because no evidence was found does not mean that there is any confidence in toon land that Sourpus’s signings were above board. ‘No evidence found’ just means things were so rigged that investigators stood no chance of getting anywhere near the truth.
Souness is either completely bent or utterly inept. His time managing Newcastle is public evidence – concealed in plain sight – of this.

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YerevanPosted on3:28 am - Jun 30, 2014


This’ll be the Frank Blin that was being hailed as the financial genius who was part of the “Requisitioner’s” consortium.
I seem to recall that he pulled out rather quietly following veiled threats from Jack Irvine.
Is Jack flexing his muscles again?

http://m.scotsman.com/news/scotland/top-stories/millionaire-resigns-from-golf-club-in-row-over-75-1-3460700?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=dlvr.it

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Danish PastryPosted on6:41 am - Jun 30, 2014


Was catching up on my Off the Ball fix and at about 1hr 17.30 in Rob McLean enters (for it is he) to talk up Sportsound:

“Chick Young’s been speaking to Graham Souness — I know that’s a weekly, maybe daily occurrence …”. Cue much mirth from the studio guests and hosts. “Is that aboot the £30,000 interest-free loan?” asks Tam Cowan.

Such naughtiness live on air.

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Danish PastryPosted on7:44 am - Jun 30, 2014


Correction: the above OtB reference should read 1:05:45 in. I forgot I was listening to my own recording of the show which was out of sync with BBC listen again.

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wottpiPosted on8:54 am - Jun 30, 2014


Yerevan says:
June 30, 2014 at 3:28 am

Just another example of how a good number of people who appear to ‘have it all’ are greedy so and so’s and want even more. The reason they made their money is because they never ever give up a chance to take every opportunity going to add to their wealth or work a deal in their favour. The straight bat is alien to them. Even for a few quid they hate missing an opportunity to make or save money or feel that they might be getting done over.
My big favourite is the ones who employ and entrust what should be their most treasured possessions,their children, to illegally employ possible illegal immigrants on the black economy to save a few bob. I am sure many of these desperate folk do a sterling job with the child minding but in places like London their must be plenty of agencies with well qualified and vetted child care practitioners on their books.

Which is why one has to question any potential Mr Moneybags who says they want to plough money into T’Rangers. Unless they have a true connection to the club it is more than likely they want some form of return.

Even those latter day saints with connections to the club or local community like McCann, Farmer, Budge and even Messrs Wonga Letham & Easdales still want their investment returned or watched over very carefully.

The only person with T’Rangers supposedly at heart and alleged to have bag full of money appears to have sulked off to the southern hemisphere and taken up residency in that cave Campbell Ogilvie used when he wanted to disappear for a while.

Therefore I still can’t see how the sums down Govan way work out in terms of their supposed aims and ambitions with some folk still wanting a return and their cut, the CEO constantly reminding everyone about the need for austerity and little signs of major cost cutting.

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spanishceltPosted on9:51 am - Jun 30, 2014


Danish Pastry says:

June 29, 2014 at 3:50 pm

Souness is a bit of an enigma. Seemed a decent player in his day, although in retrospect the sort of chap the current Honduras or Uruguay might use.

For me his management is synonymous with the era of waste, over-spending and a down-turn in opportunities for home-grown players. At least that’s how it seemed. Not sure his man-management skills were the most refined either. And why on earth he was on EBTs long after leaving Ibrox is everyone’s favourite mystery.
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
I agree with your comments about his management style and abilities but credit where its due, he didn’t “seem to be a decent player” he was a superb player.
Hard and dirty, yes, but no more than dozens of players in that era,
Seven seasons at Liverpool and winners medals for five League Championships, three European Cups and four League Cups and played for his country for 12 years, that’s not a decent record but one that some of the best players in the world will never achieve.
The guy makes my blood boil and I have no doubt he had his snout in the trough but that doesn’t take away from his abilities as a player imo.

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AllyjamboPosted on10:06 am - Jun 30, 2014


upthehoops says:
June 29, 2014 at 5:15 pm

Auldheid says:
June 29, 2014 at 6:13 pm

“From the paperwork they will have a job, but they are experts at twisting the rules to suit.”
________________________________________________________

And in one sentence Auldheid has summed up one of the major problems in Scottish football. We have people at the head of both the SFA and SPFL who are better at making excuses, covering up, and blaming things outwith their control, for their failures than they are at doing their jobs. If they put as much effort into doing the right thing up front, including bigging up the game, they wouldn’t have to spend so much time looking for excuses, and our game would undoubtedly be on a better footing (competition sponsorship would be nice, which, I believe, was one of the main objectives of their appointments)!

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TartanwulverPosted on11:35 am - Jun 30, 2014


spanishcelt says:
June 30, 2014 at 9:51 am
[re. Souness] he was a superb player. Hard and dirty, yes, but no more than dozens of players in that era,
—————————————————————–
I agree Souness was a very talented player, top drawer at his peak. But even in an era of hard and dirty players, his tendency towards brutality was quite exceptional

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y4rmyPosted on12:10 pm - Jun 30, 2014


Been on UEFA’s website looking at the draw for Euro 2016 qualifying.

There are some political conditions on who couldn’t be drawn against each other – namely Spain/Gibraltar and Armenia/Azerbaijan but what caught my cynical eye was this:

Draw conditions
The following conditions apply:
Centralisation of rights by UEFA: For TV reasons, England, Germany, Italy, Spain and the Netherlands shall be drawn into groups of 6 teams.
The last team to be drawn among the remaining teams in Pot 1 will be allocated to Group I composed of 5 teams.

There’s only one 5 team group, to which France are nominally added so that they have friendlies to play.

Obviously the Champions League is heavily and brazenly gerrymandered to suit large TV markets but I never realised that UEFA are happy to let TV considerations dictate European Championship groups too.

Suppose I should have known better.

To be fair, 4 of those teams are consistently top performers in international competition.

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justbecauseyoureparanoidPosted on12:18 pm - Jun 30, 2014


Tartanwulver says:
June 30, 2014 at 11:35 am
9 0 Rate This

Agree
What always grated with me was that he had the talent to be known as a truly great player, but his tendency to go from hard to thuggish in my opinion denies him that status

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jockybhoyPosted on1:49 pm - Jun 30, 2014


Kicker conspiracy: I thumbsed up your post but equally I agree with y4rmy. It’s a curiously inept description of what could be seen as standard seeding. Clearly with the system of “pots” no team in “pot 1” will play another team in “pot 1” just as no team in “pot 2” will play another in “pot 2”. Why even mention TV markets?

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MoreCelticParanoiaPosted on1:55 pm - Jun 30, 2014


y4rmy says:
June 30, 2014 at 12:10 pm

To be fair, 4 of those teams are consistently top performers in international competition.

jockybhoy says:
June 30, 2014 at 1:49 pm
0 0 i
Rate This

Why even mention TV markets?
___________________________________________________

The fact they are consistently top performers in international competition is irrelevant, I think you miss the point.

The point is that, yes, all teams in Pot 1 will avoid each other but UEFA have gerrymandered the draw so that England, Germany, Spain, Holland and Italy will be placed in a group of 6 teams to maximise TV exposure
There are eight groups of six teams and One of five and UEFA want to ensure that one of these big markets…. sorry, nations does not find itself in a group of only 8 TV paydays rather than the 10 in all the other groups.
So the draw has been manipulated purely for cynical commercial reasons.

It’s not “standard” seeding at all.
Allowances have always been made for sensitive political reasons which is at least understandable but this is the first time I am aware of, for naked commercial greed

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MoreCelticParanoiaPosted on2:35 pm - Jun 30, 2014


MoreCelticParanoia says:
June 30, 2014 at 1:55 pm
Allowances have always been made for sensitive political reasons which is at least understandable but this is the first time I am aware of, for naked commercial greed
___________________________________

Perhaps there has been a precedent – automatic seeding of host nations who would not be top seeds on merit i.e. Mexico 86, USA 94, Japan/South Korea 02, South Africa 10.

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Danish PastryPosted on2:44 pm - Jun 30, 2014


spanishcelt says:
June 30, 2014 at 9:51 am
36 0 Rate This
———-

Yes, he was, and you’re no doubt correct. I perhaps over-qualified / perspectiviz-ed him. And you’ve probably seen him more in the flesh. I saw him from a distance as a Scotland player and Liverpool player, and at a time when my interest in football was at a very low ebb. So I can only say seemed (to me), since I never actually paid much attention to his playing career. The ‘seemed’ is more a reflection of my ignorance than of his ability, or lack thereof 😉

He was a hard man though, and I’ve a feeling that type is now dinosaur-ish.

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billyj1Posted on3:08 pm - Jun 30, 2014


On holiday in very hot n sunny Spain so struggling to keep up.
I do notice however that yet again the prospect of Kennedy investing in Rangers (sic) has been raised.
Please can I add my tuppence worth to this.
I posted in RTC days when this was first mooted.
I have also posted on TSFM.
I have absolutely impeccable sources on this one. Please trust me on this. Brian Kennedy has taken advice on this and has been advised not to touch it with a barge pole. He won’t. End off.

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YellohoosePosted on4:18 pm - Jun 30, 2014


:slamb: http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/rangers/rangers-revel-in-boyd-ticket-bounty-169185n.24618366 He’ll get goals AND sell season tickets. Some of the comments are quite illuminating.

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scottcPosted on4:24 pm - Jun 30, 2014


On seeding and the manipulation of the groups for TV purposes: I guess I can understand them doing it, but it is wrong. Having said that seeding itself is wrong. Why should the ‘big’ countries be given the advantage of not having to play each other early? It’s ALL about television and money.

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jockybhoyPosted on5:40 pm - Jun 30, 2014


@Morecelticparanoia – ah, ok, see the point now. Maybe I’m just not as paranoid as you! 😳

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AllyjamboPosted on6:14 pm - Jun 30, 2014


Yellohoose says:
June 30, 2014 at 4:18 pm

Only to be expected, I’d say, with the Boyd signing paying off in a way that’s pretty predictable. It’s so predictable that I wonder why they didn’t go all out to get him by offering him a much higher salary, a bit risky to go in so low, and very un-Rangers(IL and TRFC). Perhaps they did! Perhaps there’s a bonus tagged onto his contract, a contract that won’t be made public, that secured the signing of not only one of the best strikers Scotland’s produced in quite a while, but massive box office down Govan way too. Just a thought, but they’re not usually so shy with the cheque book, especially when signing a player with added benefits. Not suggesting for one minute they are making payments that are not shown on contracts, just that there will be no way of finding out (the SFA aren’t going to tell anyone, though they might have to if HMRC come calling), at least until the next set of Accounts are due.

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Madbhoy24941Posted on6:17 pm - Jun 30, 2014


scottc says:

June 30, 2014 at 4:24 pm

On seeding and the manipulation of the groups for TV purposes: I guess I can understand them doing it, but it is wrong. Having said that seeding itself is wrong. Why should the ‘big’ countries be given the advantage of not having to play each other early? It’s ALL about television and money.

————————————–

Check out the point Gordon Strachan was making a couple of days ago when he had to remind his studio panel that there are “no morals left in football”

He says it as it is!

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Kicker ConspiracyPosted on6:51 pm - Jun 30, 2014


scottc says:

June 30, 2014 at 4:24 pm

On seeding and the manipulation of the groups for TV purposes: I guess I can understand them doing it, but it is wrong. Having said that seeding itself is wrong. Why should the ‘big’ countries be given the advantage of not having to play each other early? It’s ALL about television and money.

—————————————————————————–

I loathe any kind of seeding in sport.

Thing is, I get that the European Cup mutated into the Champions League at least in part because UEFA were and are terrified of powerful clubs going off in the huff and forming their own setup, but what are big national associations going to do if they don’t get their own way? Break away and form their own continent?

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helpmaboabPosted on6:53 pm - Jun 30, 2014


Check out the point Gordon Strachan was making a couple of days ago when he had to remind his studio panel that there are “no morals left in football”
…………………………………..
Good on Srachan. Watching that I was hoping that Chiles would move his chair back a bit and disappear over the edge.

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paulsatimPosted on9:45 pm - Jun 30, 2014


Allyjambo says:
June 30, 2014 at 6:14 pm

Mibbe been promised a job when he retires as a taxi driver or bus inspector

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AllyjamboPosted on9:59 pm - Jun 30, 2014


paulsatim says:
June 30, 2014 at 9:45 pm

Honestly I really don’t know, but I do know that desperation makes good people bad (not suggesting Boyd has gone bad more likely the spivs who are offering him a deal). But he is undoubtedly a Scotsman, yet he was prepared to turn his back on Scotland because…
A man who turns his back on his country… is now doing his bit for his ‘club’? And there’s only 2 months left for him to find a club with loadsamoney…
Just as always, there’s something going on.

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AllyjamboPosted on10:06 pm - Jun 30, 2014


Madbhoy24941 says:
June 30, 2014 at 6:17 p

Gordon Strachan, that wee Hibby, just keeps going up in my estimation. God he makes these no-marks look more and more stupid. Chiles, you know nothing!!!! Yes, English football is so honest… No wonder there’s a club in Govan wants to be one of you!

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RyanGoslingPosted on10:29 pm - Jun 30, 2014


Allyjambo,

Boyd didn’t turn his back on Scotland as such, although in effect that is what he did on a temporary basis when he stated he wouldn’t play again for then manager George Burley. Not an ideal situation by any means but it happens all too often. Given the whole Iwelumo situation I could understand Boyd’s extreme frustration at the time.

There is a club in Govan which would love to join the Premiership, yes. As would a club in Parkhead, and given the riches on offer, probably any other club in Scotland if they were offered the opportunity. Which I’m sure no club in Scotland will be. Linking a comment on the morality or honesty of English football with Rangers just for the sake of having a pop strikes me as needless. Not that I feel the desire or have the right to tell you what to post.

I did feel that hints about the honesty of the payment of Boyd’s Rangers contract was also unnecessary however. Surely Rangers should be praised in this instance for securing a box office name on a reasonable salary for once?

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Cluster OnePosted on10:38 pm - Jun 30, 2014


RyanGosling says:

June 30, 2014 at 10:29 pm
Surely Rangers should be praised in this instance for securing a box office name on a reasonable salary for once?
box office?…..How much is a box office player worth these days?
And before anyone else says ” worth his weight in goals”

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RyanGoslingPosted on10:44 pm - Jun 30, 2014


Box office generally refers to the drawing power or popular appeal of a performer. As reports today have been that ticket sales have increased on the back of the confirmation of Boyd’s signing, as has been discussed here today, I feel comfortable with the description I used. With regards to what he is worth, on a one year contract I believe his sell on value would be nominal at best. In the short term he could be very valuable to Rangers indeed if his goals in that year managed to secure promotion. I believe the wage that has been rumoured is c. £2k per week, so again I am comfortable in describing that as reasonable.

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Resin_lab_dogPosted on11:50 pm - Jun 30, 2014


RyanGosling says:
June 30, 2014 at 10:44 pm

5

7

Rate This

Box office generally refers to the drawing power or popular appeal of a performer. As reports today have been that ticket sales have increased on the back of the confirmation of Boyd’s signing, as has been discussed here today, I feel comfortable with the description I used. With regards to what he is worth, on a one year contract I believe his sell on value would be nominal at best. In the short term he could be very valuable to Rangers indeed if his goals in that year managed to secure promotion. I believe the wage that has been rumoured is c. £2k per week, so again I am comfortable in describing that as reasonable.

_______________________________________________

I think Boyd is a coup.
Could turn out to be priceless. The difference between financial survival and financial oblivion.
Realistic wages a sign that the party is over and the clearing up has begun.
There are a few over indulged bodies sleeping it off that still need kicked out of the place, however.

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John ClarkPosted on11:58 pm - Jun 30, 2014


What is it about English commentators that they have to say things like ‘the rightful balance has been restored’, when it began to look as if Germany might win? Rightful balance? Like it would not be right for some north African team to beat a European team? What kind of mindset do these guys have? Rooted in a failed, imperialist, supremacist kind of mindset, that’s what. Algeria played some of the best football yet seen and damned near humbled the Jerries.
It was a great game, and Algeria could well have been entirely worthy winners, with some brilliantly skilful play. And for some jackass of a little Englander to imply that the European team would be naturally expected to win…… God Almighty!

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John ClarkPosted on12:19 am - Jul 1, 2014


RyanGosling says:
June 30, 2014 at 10:29 pm
‘..Boyd didn’t turn his back on Scotland as such, although in effect that is what he did on a temporary basis .’
——
Aw, come on, RyanG! ‘Turn one’s back on a temporary basis?’ What a meaningless concept! And what a streak of unacceptable arrogance an individual must have to feel that he is entitled to choose under which manager he will serve his country! Along with ‘two-fingers’ manager of Clyde he deserves absolutely no respect whatsoever from any supporter of Scotland.

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twopandaPosted on4:03 am - Jul 1, 2014


Despite the MSMs enthusiasm to prop up rapacious scoundrels, the fundamentals are a car park, Edmiston[?] House and possibly MP lie presently in others hands. That, despite two seasons of unqualified support, and of magnitude.

Only the stadium left [or is it?] – trust deceptive statements? – yeah sure.

For Bears, there is no straightforward honesty of where they are or where they`re going.

But Scoundrel’s keep paying cash for PR
That`s what they`re really `investing` – and Scoundrels expecting a return.
Onerous stuff is well very tasty for those who still receive lucrative payback every month

Supported enthusiastically by an unthinking,
Untrustworthy MSM who have sold their soul to the Devils IMO
When`s the next award? 😉

Shocking state of affairs

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JimBhoyPosted on4:16 am - Jul 1, 2014


@JC It was a great game, and Algeria could well have been entirely worthy winners, with some brilliantly skilful play. And for some jackass of a little Englander to imply that the European team would be naturally expected to win…… God Almighty!
============================================================================

Totally agree, great game could have went either way great goal keeping on both sides. Algeria’s range of passing was brilliant and their intricate passing, touch and movement great to see. Early rise so i missed extra time.English commentary is generally nonsense..

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upthehoopsPosted on5:59 am - Jul 1, 2014


RyanGosling says:
June 30, 2014 at 10:29 pm
============================================
The indisputable fact that Kris Boyd was a complete failure when he left Rangers tells me George Burley had a greater sense of Boyd’s worth at a higher level than Boyd himself.

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upthehoopsPosted on7:09 am - Jul 1, 2014


JimBhoy says:
July 1, 2014 at 4:16 am
5 0 Rate This

@JC It was a great game, and Algeria could well have been entirely worthy winners, with some brilliantly skilful play. And for some jackass of a little Englander to imply that the European team would be naturally expected to win…… God Almighty!
============================================================================

Totally agree, great game could have went either way great goal keeping on both sides. Algeria’s range of passing was brilliant and their intricate passing, touch and movement great to see. Early rise so i missed extra time.English commentary is generally nonsense..
=======================================
Algeria, like Nigeria earlier the same day, have much to be proud of. My own view is despite the heroics of the Algerian keeper (and the German one too at times), is the Germans were wasteful in front of goal. As with France earlier though, class eventually told. All in all the emergence of so called lesser nations has been illuminating though, and Costa Rica roll on! It’s a sobering thought for us Scots as we hope to see our team even just qualify again.

Edit: forgot my tuppence worth on the commentators. I didn’t take the ‘rightful order’ stance as being pro Germany, more to do with realism in the knowledge the German football team tend to get there in the end. The commentary in general was very anti-Germany in my view.

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incredibleadamsparkPosted on7:16 am - Jul 1, 2014


upthehoops says:
July 1, 2014 at 5:59 am

The indisputable fact that Kris Boyd was a complete failure when he left Rangers tells me George Burley had a greater sense of Boyd’s worth at a higher level than Boyd himself.
______________________________________________________________________

I wouldn’t put too much trust in George Burleys sense, himself an abject failure as Scotland manager. Boyd scored seven goals in eighteen internationals and that’s not a bad return for a Scotland striker. He will score loads of goals in Scottish football and that’s probably his level. There is no shame in that, it’s not a bad level. Very few forwards of recent times have scored the number of goals he has which goes to show it’s not that easy. An excellent signing for Rangers.

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Cluster OnePosted on7:23 am - Jul 1, 2014


RyanGosling says:

June 30, 2014 at 10:44 pm
I feel comfortable with the description I used. With regards to what he is worth, on a one year contract I believe his sell on value would be nominal at best.

They would have to sell him in the Jan transfer window to recieve any nominal fee as he would be out of contract at the end of the season. And free to walk away 😉

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AllyjamboPosted on9:29 am - Jul 1, 2014


RyanGosling says:
June 30, 2014 at 10:29 pm

Ryan,

Thanks for responding and putting your points forward. On the points you raise about my posts:

John Clark’s ‘Turn one’s back on a temporary basis?’ sums that part of your post up very well.

My reference to a club from Govan wanting to be English, was, on reading again, not too well written, but I was more referring to your fellow bears who see England as a focal point for their ‘Britishness’ and the way so many seem to revel in wearing England tops. I think you’ll agree that’s got nowt to do with Celtic!

I find it strange that you, one of the TRFC supporters who does recognise the dishonesty that has pervaded the ‘business’ carried out by the succession of men running TRFC, should see my hint at dishonesty there as ‘unnecessary’. Perhaps if all comments on here are deemed ‘unnecessary’ in the great scheme of things then it was, but I do think my speculation is justified in light of all that has happened at Ibrox, not just in the Murray years (did you know he made some dodgy payments to players that were kept hidden for many years?), but also since the arrival of Charles Green (he’s made some funny payments too). Further more I didn’t ‘hint at the dishonesty’ of Boyd’s contract, in fact I said that I wasn’t suggesting any such thing, just that, legitimately, it is hidden from public scrutiny, as much has been at your club – only finding the light of day once it is too late for anyone to react to. I think you’ll agree that much of the problems at TRFC have been caused by what’s not, or wasn’t, in the public domain and that even the current board, possibly the most honest since before the days of Murray, are inclined to only give out their own version of the truth. I see no reason to leave the signing of Boyd unquestioned just because, on the face of it, it is a very good piece of business at an un-Rangers-like salary. Too much has happened there to put anything out of the question!

I sense there’s a feeling amongst some bears that, with the signing of Miller and Boyd on very sensible salaries, that a corner has been turned, resulting in, reportedly, an instant upturn in ST sales. I think you will agree, Ryan, that it is more likely to be smoke to hide the corner, than any turning of it. To even approach that corner, they have to ditch an awful lot of onerous contracts, in a very short time. Until then, they need all the smoke they can muster.

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