John Clark Meets “The SFA”

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John Clark Meets “The SFA”

Regular posters and contributors to the SFM may remember that in October last year I wrote to Mr McRae, President of the SFA.

I posted the text of my letter on 28th October http://www.sfmonitor.org/whose-assets-are-they-anyway/?cid=20786

I had not received a reply or acknowledgement by 12th December, so I sent a reminder. I received a reply to that reminder, dated 16 December 2015, in which Mr McRae apologised for not having responded to my previous letter, and invited me to come and see him. We arranged that I should visit him at Hampden on 19 January 2016 at 2.00 p.m.

Following the meeting, I wrote a summary of the conversation. I emailed that summary to Mr Darryl Broadfoot, Head of Communications, asking him to check whether my recollections were accurate, because I was my intention to post the summary on SFM.

I have not had a reply and I think I have waited a fair enough time, so, here is the summary of an approximately 45 minute conversation.

I should first make it clear that Mr McRae said that he had no recollection of airing any of the views recorded in my letter as attributed to him. I should also say that I made it clear that while I contribute to SFM, I was not there as ‘officially representing’ SFM, although what I would say broadly reflected the view of many.


 

“Note of informal meeting between me, and Alan McRae, President of the SFA, with Darryl Broadfoot, Press Officer, at Hampden park, 2.00 pm Tuesday, 19th January.

Background: I had written to Mr McRae in October 2015, to ask whether Mr McRae had really (as had been reported to me) aired the following opinions:

  1. that Rangers FC were not Liquidated
  2. that Rangers FC were put down to the third Division
  3. that Rangers FC were bought by Charles Green and that the team currently playing out of Ibrox Stadium and calling itself The Rangers Football Club Ltd is one and the same as the club known as Rangers Football Club, which is currently in Liquidation.

Mr McRae, through Mr Broadfoot, went through the points one by one.

On point one, there was no difficulty in agreeing that RFC had been Liquidated. That was accepted as a matter of fact.

On point two, I argued that;

  • Mr Green’s new club had had to apply for league and SFA membership, and were therefore admitted as a new club to Scottish Football and allowed into SFL Third Division.
  • They had as an emergency measure been granted conditional membership, and had had to seek the Administrators’ and Football Authorities’ agreement to the use of certain RFC (IL) players who had decided to sign on with the new club in order to play their first game as a new club.
  • They were ‘put in ‘the Third Division as a new club, not as an existing club being relegated.

Mr McRae, through Mr Broadfoot, argued that ‘put in’ and ‘admitted to’ are pretty much the same thing, and that the legal advice obtained was that Mr Green’s new club was not a new club, and the Authorities were stuck with that.

I referred to the 5-way Agreement, and made the point that two entities other than league or SFA representatives were signatories to that agreement: RFC (IL) and Mr Green’s new club. The two could not be one.

Mr Broadfoot said that was a matter of opinion.

I said that it was rather a matter of fact.

Likewise, on the third point, there was disagreement.

Mr Broadfoot, for Mr McRae, argued that Charles Green bought the club (and Mr McRae personally added ‘and the “goodwill”’).

I pointed out that Mr Green had NOT bought the club out of Administration, as had happened with other clubs, but merely had bought the assets of a former club that was NOT able to bought out of administration and was consequently Liquidated.

Mr Broadfoot said that Celtic and Rangers supporters might continue to disagree but that could only be expected.

I pointed out that this was not at all a Celtic-Rangers supporters’ issue, and that the Scottish Football Monitor, for instance, represented the views of supporters of many clubs. I further made the point that many sports administrative bodies had come under the spotlight in current times and people were naturally concerned that the governance of football should be above suspicion: and that substantial numbers feel that the Football Authorities have been at fault, in permitting a new club to claim to be an old club and pretend to the honours and titles etc etc.

Reference was made in the passing to some allegations that had been made that certain evidence relating to the Discounted Option Scheme had been withheld from the LNS commission, which occasioned Lord Nimmo Smith to be misled; and to the apparent negligent performance of the SFA administration under the previous President, who, both on account of his personal knowledge of the use of the DOS by Sir David Murray, and as a subsequent recipient of an EBT, might reasonably have been expected to ensure a thorough and diligent examination of the information provided by clubs about payments to players.

Mr Broadfoot ruled out discussion of the first of these matters because ‘there was no evidence’, and the second matter was also ruled out because, he asserted, the previous president is a man of the highest integrity.

I replied that work was in hand to provide evidence, and that the question of negligent performance of duties was not a question of ‘personal integrity’.

Mr Broadfoot opined that the future would show whether Scottish Football supporters were really concerned about the old club/new club debate, if huge numbers turned their backs on the game.

I replied that a sport based on a false proposition, on what could be seen as a lie, no matter on what pragmatic reasons, would certainly wither if and when people thought the sport could be rigged.

As the meeting drew to a close, I was asked if, coming from Edinburgh, I was a Hibs or Hearts supporter, or perhaps a Celtic supporter? And whether I was going to tonight’s (Celtic were playing that evening at home) game?

I replied that as my name suggests, I was of Irish extraction and perhaps conclusions could be drawn from that. Also that I would not be going to tonight’s game, and that my interest in the present matter was rather more academic and objective than partisan.

The meeting ended cordially at about 2.45.pm “


 

I think I can say that Mr Broadfoot, opening the meeting, explained that

“for the purposes of this meeting, I am the SFA.”

Mr McRae’s personal contribution to the conversation was therefore very little more than mentioned above, Mr Broadfoot doing most of the talking.

I will say further that I spoke to BP, and consulted one or two other posters before I went to the meeting, in order to make sure that my general understanding both of the principal events of the ‘saga’ and of the thrust of most of SFM’s contributors, who are drawn from supporters of many clubs, was sufficiently sound.

I give it as my opinion that I may have been invited to a personal meeting only because it might have been thought in some quarters that I was in possession of an electronic recording of what I told Mr McRae that he was reported as having said.

And, finally, I declare here that my note of the meeting was written within two hours of the meeting, and reflects the substance of the conversation. It is exactly the note I sent by email to Broadfoot, except that I corrected a typo in the spelling of Darryll (I had ‘Caryll’), have omitted my own surname, and changed references to myself from the third person to the first person.

 

 

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1,392 Comments so far

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bordersdonPosted on9:30 am - Feb 8, 2016


tayred 8th February 2016 at 8:41 am #
Sorry tried to hold my tongue but no, I have to agree completely with Bill1903 here
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Wholeheartedly agree with Bill1903 and Tayred. Grew up in the north east and now live in the Borders and sectarianism has never really been an issue. Some funny hand shakes though 04 03

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Kopweb

KopwebPosted on9:34 am - Feb 8, 2016


Must add my support for Bill1903 and tayred. In the north-east sectarianism was always seen as a peculiarly West of Scotland issue. It just never arose in daily life.
With my mates, I was a regular at Pittodrie in the early 60s – before segregation and when you could move freely round the terraces from Merkland Road to the Beach End. Despite widespread drinking, there was very rarely any trouble, even in 20,000 crowds for games against Celtic or Rangers (I was next to Rangers fans during their 6-1 drubbing in 1961). Any neds were usually calmed down by their mates or the police. The only sectarian singing I can remember hearing was by Gers fans parodying ‘Hail! Hail!’
It does make me wonder whether segregation in the grounds has actually increased the problem by making tribalism the acceptable norm. It’s not so easy to brand opposing fans as scum or whatever when you’re right next to them and realise they are actually real people…

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shug

shugPosted on9:46 am - Feb 8, 2016


Bill1903 8th February 2016 at 8:01 am #Shug @4.14amSorry BP but i think you are wrong sectarianism is a societal problem in Scotland and not restricted to the west it is all over this wee country———————————————————————–Born and grew up in the North east of Scotland and the only time we knew anything about sectarianism was on the news or when the Glasgow teams came to town.This was the 60’s/70’s at the peak of the troubles.I spent 4 years in Inverness and it was the same as Aberdeen as far as I could see anyway.Its obviously a massive problem in large parts of Scotland but try not to generalize please

==================
Bill head yourself down to the only oil refinery in Scotland and have a wee scout around the adjoining areas and then tell me I’m generalising I can only tell my experience I also grew up in the same time frame and i have been all over Scotland and very few places are free of it. Mods feel free to delete this post.

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tayred

tayredPosted on9:52 am - Feb 8, 2016


bordersdon 8th February 2016 at 9:30 am #

Well aye, but ats cos its aye flipping cald! Ye canna hud yer hauns oot o yer pooches fer too lang!

(you should see what auto-correct did to that sentence!)

I heard someone on Radio 2 commenting on how cold it was at Fulhams ground a few weeks back, proclaiming that it must be the coldest ground in the country would you believe! Anybody sat in the South stand at Pittodrie during January with a Northerly, or worse an easterly firing in from the North Sea? Now that’s cold! Fulham indeed!

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tayred

tayredPosted on9:54 am - Feb 8, 2016


shug 8th February 2016 at 9:46 am #

And how many of those of which you speak were natives? How many “immigrants” from the, lets say for argument, central belt?

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shug

shugPosted on10:06 am - Feb 8, 2016


How would I know the only folks that sound any different to me are the chaps from fife but in my village the families were the same families who moved there when the village was built in the 1935 era.I am not saying that all these walks were not a contributing factor I remember a cousin from hackney staying one summer and she wondered what the H=ll was going on at 7am on a Saturday morning with all the noise.

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bordersdonPosted on10:28 am - Feb 8, 2016


Anybody sat in the South stand at Pittodrie during January with a Northerly, or worse an easterly firing in from the North Sea? Now that’s cold! Fulham indeed!
—————————————————————————————————————————–
I’m thinking Gayfield must be up there for the coldest ground in the country?
Scottish football needs a warmer Arbroath!

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redlichtiePosted on11:02 am - Feb 8, 2016


Bordersdon…

Gayfield the coldest ground? Probably, but you should try playing fitba on one of the open beach-side pitches between Gayfield and Elliot on a cold Sunday morning with the sleet competing with the hail to sandpaper your skin off. Only the numbing cold stopped the pain….Copacabana it ain’t!

Regarding sectarianism in the north-east, I’m with the other guys as the only brush (ha!) I recall having with that was also the visits of the Glasgow duo. Bemusing to a young lad.

Scottish Football  does indeed need a warmer Arbroath!

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bfbpuzzledPosted on11:05 am - Feb 8, 2016


Ice Station Broadwood – built back to front so that the prevailing wind blows straight into the denizens of the main stand.
There is more sectarianism in the particular form of anti Irish Catholic reflexes in more than the West of Scotland perhaps it is less regular but to claim it does not exist is incorrect. Remember part of Charles Darwin’s argument in the Descent of Man was based on the brutality of the Irish Catholic particularly measured against the Noble Indigenous Scot. Unfortunately some of his stuff remains current thought among elements of the people who are and others. With all of the current furore over migration this kind of thing will not go away easily.

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tayred

tayredPosted on11:12 am - Feb 8, 2016


Gayfield – you have a point there, with their chums at Links Park Montrose probably not far behind.

Mind you – recalling as a youth playing at the council pitches at Northfield in Aberdeen. Everyone is a blue nose after a game up there!

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redlichtiePosted on12:07 pm - Feb 8, 2016


tayred 8th February 2016 at 11:12 am #Gayfield – you have a point there, with their chums at Links Park Montrose probably not far behind.
Mind you – recalling as a youth playing at the council pitches at Northfield in Aberdeen. Everyone is a blue nose after a game up there!
————————————————–
Aye, Tayred, I’ve played Northfield too! Must have a serious masochistic streak!

Scottish Football needs proper pitch heating systems!

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easyJamboPosted on12:30 pm - Feb 8, 2016


Fraudco Preliminary Hearing adjourned until 22 February.

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jimboPosted on1:50 pm - Feb 8, 2016


New post up on jj site, very hard hitting against Doncaster.
https://johnjamessite.wordpress.com/2016/02/08/the-journeys/

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woodstein

woodsteinPosted on1:53 pm - Feb 8, 2016


Very naughty
http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/ft-columnist-reveals-aggressive-hewlett-packard-enterprise-pr-email-warning-harm-relationships  07
Almost choked on my coffee when I read this headline.
Dave King takes charge of Newsquest’s newly-acquired Berkshire titles. 12
Only to discover that the correct headline was:-
Former Swindon Advertiser editor Dave King takes charge of Newsquest’s newly-acquired Berkshire titles
Damn pop-up advert covered first part.06
 

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jimboPosted on2:10 pm - Feb 8, 2016


Johnjames often sails close to the wind in some of his comments, great to read though 02

Apparently Doncaster has a law degree, who would have thunk it?   You would have thought that after the ‘suggestions ‘ against him in this article he would take JJ on.  But I doubt it very much.  It would require him to go to court and prove his shaky arguments are valid with regards to how he dealt with Rangers/ TRFC in 2012.

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SmugasPosted on2:27 pm - Feb 8, 2016


I’m slightly confuddled but that’s nothing new.

I understood why Green had to argue new club from the point of view of his costs/legal liabilities claim – he did not inherit Rangers (who were previously immune to his legal costs) but in fact he created them, the shiny new TRFC that is, and so they (the shiny new club) should be liable for any costs subsequently incurred. 

I think today though, JJ is talking about the fraudco case. Why is NC=OC so important to be established within the auspices of that particular case?  The Big Lie is, regrettably, not the particular fraud being visited I understood.

(Just on a side note by the way – whilst I am ever grateful to James Doleman for his court coverage, you must retain an eye on what’s being said, at what point and why.  In a simple case of “Black is really white” I fully expect a lawyer to stand up at some point and say that “Black is white.”  Equally I expect another legal fellow to say something akin to “naw it’s naw.”  The point being you must guard against a headline the next day of “Bloke in court says Black is White so it must be true” but instead look at the bigger picture.  I accept someone (EJ?) did make the point that the defence (SFA) didn’t rebut some of the metaphysical arguments but you still can’t get too carried away with their usage.)     

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essexbeancounterPosted on2:41 pm - Feb 8, 2016


‘…. I scribbled down what I clearly heard as best I could. (I did hear the ‘rising from the ashes’ bit that eJ posted, but I think I was laughing with incredulity and didn’t write it down).
‘…. I have not deliberately invented anything or put words in people’s mouths that changed the meaning of what they were saying.
‘….Nevertheless, I don’t claim this to be anything other than my personal notes, honestly written. 
=================================================
JC(e)…absolutely stupendous preamble to your court “report”.
If only our SMSM could be so forthright, particularly those who pick up the self-generated awards.
You have just revised the spelling of “integrity”…04

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paddy malarkey

paddy malarkeyPosted on3:02 pm - Feb 8, 2016


tayred 8th February 2016 at 9:52 am #

Wee Dublin end at Cappielow with a winter storm birlin’ up the Clyde and yer team getting humped . Will freeze your soul .

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DenPosted on4:14 pm - Feb 8, 2016


Smugas 8th February 2016 at 2:27 pm #I’m slightly confuddled but that’s nothing new.

I was thinking the same thing. It is strange to see the architect of the same club now denying it through his QC, and his partners in the SFA espousing it through theirs.
It is fun to watch but i know I have missed some context.

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ThomTheThim

ThomTheThimPosted on5:02 pm - Feb 8, 2016


John Clark,
What a tremendous piece of work and all done from memory.
Are you a limited company, with a host of scribes, scribbling for all their worth.
Many congratulations and thanks for your efforts, which will be archived for future reference,

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neepheid

neepheidPosted on5:57 pm - Feb 8, 2016


http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/finance-genius-kieran-prior-says-7332374#Y2ceEkckToXO4evC.97

I know that the veterans on here have been wondering where the most intelligent man on the planet had got to- but thanks to the Daily Record- HE’S BACK!!! Kieron Prior backs Dave King- what a shocker.
This “genius” has invested over £1 million in “Rangers” in the last 12 months. Why doesn’t the Record ask him how much he has invested in total so far, and what that investment is currently worth? I would caution against taking investment advice from Mr Prior.

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John ClarkPosted on6:02 pm - Feb 8, 2016


ThomTheThim 8th February 2016 at 5:02 pm
‘…John Clark,What a tremendous piece of work and all done from memory.Are you a limited company, with a host of scribes, scribbling for all their worth..’
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Thank you, TtT. 
Not all from memory- I do take notes! And Counseloften  slow their delivery to dictation pace because ( extraordinary as it sounds)te  judge himself writes more or less continuously and will ask them to repeat themselves to make sure that he records their point accurately, and will check with counsel by saying something like’I have written down such and such’.
The difficulties arise if, when, people mumble and you can’t actually hear, or when they are referring to paras and artricles and documents that they have all seen and practically know off by heart!

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nawlitePosted on6:32 pm - Feb 8, 2016


Brilliant work, JC. I’m convinced you must have had a CW recording machine!!

I see the SFA’s QC says “….confusion between corporate law and Football. Made most evident in the relation that the 2012 new company is ‘the club’, and this is not a question of fact, but of interpretation and of law, which this Court can determine.” So even the SFA can’t bring themselves to say FACTUALLY in court that its the same club.

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easyJamboPosted on6:38 pm - Feb 8, 2016


We have a problem Hampden!

The SFA’s puppet president would be better sticking to drawing his pension rather than drawing the Scottish Cup quarter finals

Dundee United v Celtic
Dumbarton or Dundee v …….pause

We are going to have to draw these two ties again ….. silence!

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Sergio Biscuits

Sergio BiscuitsPosted on6:46 pm - Feb 8, 2016


Sums up just how embarrassing and incompetent the SFA are; can’t even get a simple thing like a cup draw right!

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upthehoopsPosted on6:47 pm - Feb 8, 2016


Utter shambles at the Scottish Cup draw as you will all know. Apparently the SFA rules are quite clear and that is why it had to be redrawn. My only question is why the SFA can ignore their quite clear rules on other matters?

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upthehoopsPosted on6:59 pm - Feb 8, 2016


I read some comments earlier about freezing cold Scottish football grounds. They can all be baltic at times but the ones that particularly stick in my mind from my away game travels in 70’s are:

Pittodrie – the open terracing that ran the full length of the pitch opposite the main stand. I stood there as the snow belted down. 

Easter Road – the HUGE open terracing opposite the main stand. Baltic doesn’t begin to describe it in the winter.

Gayfield – speaks for itself!

The old Hampden – Several times I stood there in all elements while at least some of the opposing fans were under cover. We had to pay the same to get in though.

Great memories though. 

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goosygoosyPosted on7:00 pm - Feb 8, 2016


Isn`t it strange ?
The blog attention turns to sectarianism and the topic gains traction
And
All of a sudden the 4 squirrels vanish

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sarantseville 03

sarantseville 03Posted on7:20 pm - Feb 8, 2016


Hugh Keevins can’t believe the proven John Spencer wasn’t there to do the draw instead of Lubo…whilst Daryll Broadfoot will be breaking the presidents balls for real…it’s his cup competition after all 

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John ClarkPosted on7:29 pm - Feb 8, 2016


By jings, the two ‘Rangers’ supporters spilled a fair amount of unbalanced venom tonight. Jackson almost wetting himself in his frenetic , poisonous drive  to unsettle Deila (and Stubbs), and Spiers giving Lawwell two weeks , before he  has to bring in  Derek McIntyre as the Celtic manager.
And Jackson insinuating that McLeod was only disagreeing with them for the sake of the programme.And what a bad b Jackson is, overall, in my opinion.

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Carfins FinestPosted on7:31 pm - Feb 8, 2016


Like most on SFM I want the current SFA removed completely and replaced with people who can do a better job. Looking at todays cup draw fiasco we could replace them with Monty Pythons Flying F*”K*^ Circus and get a better result.

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RyanGosling

RyanGoslingPosted on7:39 pm - Feb 8, 2016


As if it wasn’t enough that the SFA referee gave Celtic some assistance at the weekend by allowing a blatant handball to stand as a goal, now the SFA have decided that away to Dundee United would be too tough for this Celtic side so scrapped that and drew them at home to Morton instead. Shocking the lengths they will go to to assist their favoured club.

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justbecauseyoureparanoidPosted on7:54 pm - Feb 8, 2016


RyanGosling 8th February 2016 at 7:39 pm #
 Shocking the lengths they will go to to assist their favoured club.

It’s taken a while but the penny’s finally dropped 21

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LUGOSI

LUGOSIPosted on7:54 pm - Feb 8, 2016


My thanks to John Clark for his attendance and Note on the proceedings in Ashley v SFA in what were obviously less than optimal circumstances.
Mr Clark’s Note makes for interesting reading and when read against James Doleman’s Tweets a number of points come out.
I see that Mr Clark’s Note does not refer to the “metaphysical” Punch and Judy Show part of the proceedings but perhaps it’s hard to take notes when you’re in clear and present danger of drenching your breeks.
Some points, in reverse order, from Mr Clark’s Note.
A submission ” This is not the approach of a corporate lawyer, it is the approach of any lawyer.” is attributed to Mr O’Neill when Mr Doleman attributes it to Mr Sandison.
It doesn’t sound like Mr O’Neill.
At one point Lord Brodie asked “Is that a statement the wording of which was suggested by a journalist?”
I wonder if he meant “ex-journalist”?
The reply from Mr O’Neill was “No, the reality is that RIFC plc is the club.”
Really? Can we put this SFA statement to DIATSFAB?
At one point Lord Brodie observes “I’ve written that down ‘the limited company is not the same as the club'”.
The first four words are, or should be, a klaxon. The remainder is a message that you shouldn’t be surprised if this comes back to haunt you.
In the submission by Mr O’Neill referring to the law having to catch up with reality Mr Clark has noted that the word “social” preceded the word “reality”.
Did he mean “social” as in how most rational people in society view reality? Or did he mean “social” as in how reality is viewed in, say, The Louden Tavern?
Mr Sandison made a submission “One final point.’Rangers Football Club’ are a reference to Rangers Football Club Ltd only. The Petitioner denies any suggestion that RIFC plc is a member of the SFA or is any part of the entity referred to as Rangers Football Club. Should any of these matters impinge on the case, there would have to be an examination of the truth.”
Here Mr Clark has provided more detail than Mr Doleman but can anyone think of any reason why the SFA…, sorry, DIATSFAB, Messrs Regan, Ogilvie et cetera would have any difficulty with the truth being examined?
I’ll get the ball rolling. I can. Lots of reasons.
Finally, early on day one Mr Clark notes that in the early part of his submission Mr Sandison said “‘Rangers FC’ is formally “Rangers Football Club Ltd the shares of which are wholly owned by Rangers International Football Club plc”.
Thereafter Mr Clark notes Mr O’Neill, Counsel for the Respondent (interjecting) “Rangers FC is the club as defined in the Articles of Association…there is a distinction between incarnations…”
Mr Sandison “…our position remains as I said.”
Judge “The court relies on the professionalism and good humour of Counsel.”
James Doleman reported this as “Sanderson (sic) ‘The entity referred to Rangers FC in the charge is Rangers Football Club Ltd.’ O’Neil (sic) disagrees the “club” is the football entity” and “The PLC is the manifestation of the club” O’Neil tells the court.
This exchange will strike anyone who has any acquaintance with Court procedure as, let’s be kind, odd. The procedure is well settled. Party A, Party B, anything arising, end.
Mr Clark is being kind when he notes “(interjecting)”. I think the right word is interrupting.
When I first read Mr Doleman’s tweets I couldn’t understand why Mr O’Neill thought this interruption was either proper or necessary. His turn would come. He could respond and say what he liked. Why ten minutes into a two day Hearing did Mr O’Neill feel compelled to get to his feet and stop his opponent in mid flow? When you look back at the submission which prompted this interruption you see that it isn’t even about his client. Mr Sandison was making submissions about Rangers. Mr O’Neill was representing Darryl.., sorry, it’s confusing but he sure as eggs is eggs wasn’t there to represent or defend Rangers’ interests.
If Mr O’Neill is this volatile about submissions which don’t even involve his client(s?) he’s really not going to like it on Thursday when submissions definitely will and they should make last week look like the Teddy Bears Picnic. (I’m assuming Mr O’Neill will be there on Thursday. The last time the SFA was in Court was in May 2012 when a member club drove a horse and cart through the no appeal/jurisdiction rules. The club was Rangers. Q.C. for the SFA was Mr O’Neill. I wonder if DIATSFAB obtained legal advice from him?)
The most telling point about this early on day one “interjection” was Lord Brodie’s observation which was only picked up by Mr Clark.
For a Court of Session Judge to have to say to Senior Counsel “The court relies on the professionalism and good humour of Counsel.” is, again to be kind, unusual.
I think this can fairly be translated as “Do your job properly you irascible, rude prick.”
I once watched a Sheriff listen to an interjecting/interrupting Solicitor for only so long before he said “You have an option. You can shut up and sit down or you can sit down and shut up.”
I think Mr O’Neill knew he had the same choice.
Every day the list of questions for DIATSFAB grows.
It’s not as if things can get worse. What’s that? The SFA Cup draw? What about the SFA Cup draw…?

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Allyjambo

AllyjamboPosted on7:57 pm - Feb 8, 2016


Looks like someone overheated a ball, causing it to crack, and the contents spilled out 21

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Jingso.JimsiePosted on7:57 pm - Feb 8, 2016


John Clark 8th February 2016 at 7:29 pm 

By jings, the two ‘Rangers’ supporters spilled a fair amount of unbalanced venom tonight. Jackson almost wetting himself in his frenetic , poisonous drive  to unsettle Deila (and Stubbs), and Spiers giving Lawwell two weeks , before he  has to bring in  Derek McIntyre as the Celtic manager.And Jackson insinuating that McLeod was only disagreeing with them for the sake of the programme.And what a bad b Jackson is, overall, in my opinion.
————————————————

KJ was in similar vein in his ‘opinion’ column in the Record today.

I wonder if a business journalist would be allowed to make similar damaging comments about a senior manager & a board member of a publicly-listed company (& involve a senior manager, who is presumably under contract, at another, separate, company), or is it accepted that succulent stenographers have carte blanche

Actually, I wonder what would happen if a football club had the cojones to suggest on their website & matchday magazine that a certain journo wasn’t very good at his job, despite winning awards every year, and should be replaced by someone who works for another blatt?

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nawlitePosted on8:16 pm - Feb 8, 2016


Nice one, Ryan. Well deserved and excellent banter. 04

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GiorgioVasariPosted on8:18 pm - Feb 8, 2016


We have a self appointed Highland League free-loader as the top administrator of the Scottish game! Let that sink in folks.

I have said it before and I will say it again ;

The SFA needs to be dissolved and reconstituted with highly presentable and intelligent people in that role.

Apologies for the outburst but as a fan who travels home and away every game, I am scunnered with them.

Imposters, one and all.

GV

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John ClarkPosted on8:21 pm - Feb 8, 2016


LUGOSI 8th February 2016 at 7:54 pm
‘……A submission ” This is not the approach of a corporate lawyer, it is the approach of any lawyer.” is attributed to Mr O’Neill when Mr Doleman attributes it to Mr Sandison.It doesn’t sound like Mr O’Neill..’
___________
No, it was definitely O’Neill who made that comment. 
( earlier. you might be able to make out, he had been implying that judicial review is not an avenue in Private law. I suppose  , by his final remark, he was trying to emphasise that that is the view not just of corporate lawyers, but of any lawyer!
My notes at that point are crystal clear, thanks to the strong voice of Mr O’Neill whom I could hear without much difficulty, even though he was at the further end of his bench. He either has a naturally loud voice or was taking care to heed the Judge’s comment that he (the Judge)sometimes had a little  hearing difficulty.
And thank you for your kind remarks.

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paddy malarkey

paddy malarkeyPosted on8:22 pm - Feb 8, 2016


Without wishing to be facetious, does anybody know the world record for home draws in cup competitions(%)?

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jimboPosted on8:42 pm - Feb 8, 2016


JC, thanks for explaining  how you managed to take all those notes, I was baffled, thought maybe you used shorthand.  Or a ‘Hurdy Gurdy’! 21

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cuddlybearPosted on9:24 pm - Feb 8, 2016


HirsutePursuit – I have sent you a PM.

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Corrupt official

Corrupt officialPosted on9:27 pm - Feb 8, 2016


8 baws. 1 bag. What could possibly go wro…………

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smallchangePosted on9:28 pm - Feb 8, 2016


Next round according to Paddy Power.

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jimboPosted on9:47 pm - Feb 8, 2016


smallchange, hilarious 031204

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justshatered

justshateredPosted on9:53 pm - Feb 8, 2016


Well how bad was that tonight?
I really mean how bad was that?
We now have an association incapable of even handling a cup draw.
It was truly a cringing humiliation.
Sure we will have the usual sycophants saying “well accidents can happen anywhere” but I’m sure they will then be able to tell us where exactly this particular accident has happened anywhere, ANYWHERE in world football. Why is it the accidents keep occurring around the Hampden bunker. And by the way who is this SFA President? What is his purpose? How much is he getting paid for peeping above the parapet two or three times a year to humiliate our sport?
Meanwhile, how much are they paying out of the kitty to fight this unjustifiable court case? Who is picking up the tab for that? They are spending a fortune, making themselves look even more amateurish than today’s shambles, over a £1000 fine. Remember this is only round one they still have to find the cash to fight Ashley again over the fit and proper decision. That is hard cash coming out of our sport by people who are constantly telling us we are financially disadvantaged. It is absolute lunacy; a by-product of a warped administration completely out of control, run by a cabal of vested interest who pretend they are doing it for the greater good. Just exactly whose greater good are they doing this for because from where I’m standing they are now spending money in support of the unsupportable, the unjustifiable, and the naked rule bending within their own organisation.
What is it these people just do not get? They are impervious to embarrassment. Their skins are so thick there is no penetrating it. To quote Malcolm Tucker “They are so dense light bends around them!”
They are that wrapped up in their own importance, their own strategic game plan, that they cannot see that the game is disintegrating around them.
They predicted Armageddon. Next year they may finally get their wish when a support, with a huge chip on it’s shoulder, with a victim mentality, with a rageometer off the scale eventually arrives in the Premiership. There they will be met by fans of other clubs who are heartily sick fed up of the goings on over the last four years. This is not going to end well and we all know who is to blame for that. It is the very same individuals that could not keep their balls together when it really mattered!!

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easyJamboPosted on9:54 pm - Feb 8, 2016


LUGOSI 8th February 2016 at 7:54 pm
John Clark 8th February 2016 at 8:21 pm #
=========================
Some observations on the recent court proceedings:

Unlike JC, I generally don’t take notes when I’ve been on the public benches, unless the point being discussed appears particularly startling. My recall and ability to pick up on the important points of a Counsel’s or Judge’s statements is fine, although I’m not infallible, so I’m grateful to JC for some of his reminders.

I’ve also watched James Doleman and Grant Russell when they make their tweets. Like most journalists, both are looking for the headline quote to grab people’s attention, which means that the context in which a statement is made can be misunderstood. Both then seem to spend a lot of time afterwards responding to queries from their devoted followers as they attempt to place their tweets in context.  The fact that both seem to tweet the same information 95% of the time appears to confirm that they both share the same approach.

Where I have noted major differences, is in the approach, presentation skills and body language of the Judges and Counsels. 

Almost without exception, the Judges have appeared to be extremely sharp in their understanding of the points being made by the counsels and willing to challenge their submissions with a range of questions, requests for clarification or setting hypothetical situations to test that understanding. I’ve also seen a range of visual signs from the Judges which convey diverse messages such as “please sit down and don’t interrupt me”, “you cannot be serious”, “are you really asking me to agree to that?” together with sneers and looks of incredulity at what is being said to them.

The skills of the various counsels are somewhat more varied. As JC has noted, some are quite quietly spoken, which I don’t think helps them very much as people strain to hear what is being said, similarly with those with monotone voices which encourage listeners (and jury members?) to switch off. Others are much more assertive and like the sound of their own voice. Some appear well prepared and organised, which always pleases the judges, while others regularly lose their place and are unable to find the references they need.  Some make their arguments concisely and speak with brevity while others seems to feel the need to labour the point.

I won’t name the worst I have seen but he is quietly spoken, mumbles a lot, spends half the time he is on feet looking for the pages in his notes and documents that he needs,  then talks head down looking at his notes, rather than speaking directly to the judge, who he is seeking to persuade and act in his favour. It’s not a formula that is likely to lead to success.  I’m sure the JC knows who I am taking about. It just a pity that he has a pivotal role to play going forward.

As a contrast, I sat in on a short hearing which immediately preceded the Ashley v SFA case last week.  The lady counsel was on her feet for about two minutes, told the judge what she wanted (an extension), why she needed it, supplied him the relevant facts, dates etc., related to the request …. and that was it. Extension granted, no questions required.  After the Judge left, the Clerk of the Court congratulated the counsel for presenting her request as she did, “because the Judges love it when a counsel presents their request in that manner”.

It’s just as well SFM his its own “Clark” of the Court to keep us informed.       

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tony

tonyPosted on11:03 pm - Feb 8, 2016


SERIOUSLY???
http://www.ibroxnoise.co.uk/2016/02/an-interesting-email.html?m=1

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Big PinkPosted on11:24 pm - Feb 8, 2016


LINK NOW FIXED

John Clark’s transcript of proceedings last Friday is here at http://tiny.cc/gcpy8x

No comments on page so anything you have to add should be on main thread

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StevieBC

StevieBCPosted on11:26 pm - Feb 8, 2016


tony 8th February 2016 at 11:03 pm # SERIOUSLY???http://www.ibroxnoise.co.uk/2016/02/an-interesting-email.html?m=1
==============
Well, the logic seems OK.

Buy up SD shares, to give them away – in order to force a collapse in the share price…if the bears have a spare c. GBP2 Billion to buy up the SD shares in issue.

[But divided amongst the 500 million fans globally, that’s only 4 quid a skull ! ]

To be fair though: that is indeed an original suggestion to get rid of Ashley…

09

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tony

tonyPosted on11:29 pm - Feb 8, 2016


StevieBC
this is gonna keep mike ashley up all night 04

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Homunculus

HomunculusPosted on11:38 pm - Feb 8, 2016


tony 8th February 2016 at 11:03 pm
=========================

That is absolute idiocy taken to the level of genius.

I can only assume it wasn’t actually a Rangers supporter who came up with it, it’s just someone having a laugh.

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LUGOSI

LUGOSIPosted on11:40 pm - Feb 8, 2016


easyjambo 8th February 2016 at 9:54pm
I haven’t attended any of the Court cases but I’m willing to take a punt on who you’re referring to.
Is this person the only one not wearing a wig?

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StevieBC

StevieBCPosted on11:42 pm - Feb 8, 2016


Just as an aside wrt SD.

I was aware of the bad press that SD / Ashley was getting wrt to ‘zero hours contracts’ etc,, but I didn’t appreciate that the SD share price has fallen off a cliff in the last year;

Current price 366p, against year’s high of 820p.
A c. 55% drop in the value of Ashley’s shareholding, [& for his retail and institutional shareholders],  which must be a bit painful.

And in that context: why is he still p!ssing about spending limited time and resources on a basketcase of a football club – especially when he has much bigger fish to fry ?

http://www.lse.co.uk/SharePrice.asp?shareprice=SPD

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tony

tonyPosted on11:45 pm - Feb 8, 2016


Homunculus
apparently it’s genuine mate

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West Ham FanPosted on11:47 pm - Feb 8, 2016


Who did We get in the Next Round of the Scottish Cup ? 12

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StevieBC

StevieBCPosted on11:50 pm - Feb 8, 2016


…is Kieron ‘the brain’ back on the scene – with his IQ off the radar…?  😉

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tony

tonyPosted on12:00 am - Feb 9, 2016


West Ham Fan
inter milan 04

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West Ham FanPosted on12:10 am - Feb 9, 2016


tony 9th February 2016 at 12:00 am
Great I love Milan.. plus i can buy some new suits and shoes while i’m there. 03

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parnnoyedPosted on12:17 am - Feb 9, 2016


“Thur’s been a bawz-up wae the bawz”

The shambles that administers our sport has reached a new hellish depth(can it go any lower?)

Tonight’s Scottish Cup draw should be used as a case study in body language. The squirming and embarrassment was palpable, though they’ll doubtless apply their hide the truth hoses and gallons of whitewash along with a Level 5 St.Atement.

The looks on their faces from the beginning was of latent guilt. The entire sham was one of fear. Fear in case the audience spotted the trick. Like amateur magicians.

The sophistry used by Tanner was deplorable. He tried to turn it into big joke. “Let’s all laugh at……..”. This was not in the least funny. It was yet another embarrassment for us to endure. He tried to deflect with his question to Leigh Griffiths about his “hand ball”. What a twat. And our media is full of them.

I hope some club(s) have the good sense to start whatever action is necessary to  liquidate the current administration. There is surely growing  concern that there is no confidence in them.

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jimboPosted on12:24 am - Feb 9, 2016


My sister loves reading Biographies / Auto Biographies.   She has lent me a few in the past, some of which I found interesting. 

I would love to read a few in the future if I manage to outlive some of the characters.  I think for our present purposes here, I would be interested in Regan, Doncaster, Green, Whyte, King, Murray (Sir) LNS, and others as they see fit, or interesting enough.  

A biography as you learned folk know can be a bit cathartic.  Letting go of all that emotion. The guilt, the lies and the deceipt.

Or it can go the other way, justification.   Trying to make sense in a most round about way that the piss awful decisions and mistakes in their lives were actually OK if you think deep and hard enough about it for long enough especially with co-conspitators around you.    Alll you need is someone like KJ or Chris Jack (laugh) to ghost write it for you.   Or you could opt for the greatest journalist of two generations, James Traynor.  Yes That Traynor!  He will be expensive but effective.  He will persuade your readers that black is white because he says so.  Such is the standing he has in Scottish football.

Now which path do you think my candidates above will take?  Unless they meet Saint Paul on the road to Damascus my betting is the road to damnation.  (Sorry strike that out I meant purgatory).21

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Corrupt official

Corrupt officialPosted on1:00 am - Feb 9, 2016


parnnoyed 9th February 2016 at 12:17 am
    “I hope some club(s) have the good sense to start whatever action is necessary to liquidate the current administration. There is surely growing concern that there is no confidence in them. 
   ————————————————————————————————————-
   I think it is already established there is no confidence in them, but the clubs better act soon, before a lot of fans come to the realisation of who put them in office in the first place. Every time they creak open the bunker door it is only to feck something up. If it is not arranging matches without booking stadiums, it is players sitting in departure lounges with no planes. It is one embarrassing fiasco after another that even the carry-on script writers couldn’t dream up. Maybe Kinder eggs will be our next sponsors, and the semi-final draw can be done in a motorway service station, where a big crane claw can pick the eggs.
   Wee yella plastic toy, plays wee red plastic toy
   No wonder that buffoon kept stumpff when John went in to see him. He has as much authority as a supply teacher in an Easterhouse school. “Errrr Houston, we have a problem !”  Jeezo ! What an absolute walloper. 
  They couldn’t run a bath ! What chance does Scottish fitba have?  
   These are just the wee diddy matters, funny and a riddy in equal measures, but the more serious matters are not funny, and ten times more shocking. They must be gone, and they must be gone A.S.A.P. 
   The lot of them !!!! They shouldn’t be permitted to hold one more custard pie in our game. 

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easyJamboPosted on1:04 am - Feb 9, 2016


LUGOSI 8th February 2016 at 11:40 pm #
easyjambo 8th February 2016 at 9:54pm I haven’t attended any of the Court cases but I’m willing to take a punt on who you’re referring to. Is this person the only one not wearing a wig?
==========================
Mibbees Aye, Mibbees No 22

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John ClarkPosted on2:18 am - Feb 9, 2016


Corrupt official 9th February 2016 at 1:00 am
‘.. He has as much authority as a supply teacher in an Easterhouse school.’
________
He has,constitutionally as it were, as much ‘presidential’ authority as our Campbell had.
But of course Campbell was in with the bricks, all squared.
And what   is his successor to do? Pull the pillars down? Never in life.

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Jingso.JimsiePosted on3:00 am - Feb 9, 2016


Re the DR interview (by’Record Reporter’, no less) with Kieran Prior:

“Prior, a childhood Rangers fan, owns around 2.5 per cent of the club and has invested £1million in the last 12 months.

How has he done that?

Bought shares? He had 2.5% of the company in 2014, so probably not.

Is he the unknown 4th Bear? Part of the Hong Kong crowd? New Oasis Asset Ltd.? The Bank of Dave?

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Allyjambo

AllyjamboPosted on9:02 am - Feb 9, 2016


Jingso.Jimsie 9th February 2016 at 3:00 am #Re the DR interview (by’Record Reporter’, no less) with Kieran Prior:
“Prior, a childhood Rangers fan, owns around 2.5 per cent of the club and has invested £1million in the last 12 months.”
How has he done that?
Bought shares? He had 2.5% of the company in 2014, so probably not.
Is he the unknown 4th Bear? Part of the Hong Kong crowd? New Oasis Asset Ltd.? The Bank of Dave?
___________
I think we can assume he is using the Jackson-King Investment Plan, you know the one, invest some bawbees in metaphysics and watch it grow to level504

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neepheid

neepheidPosted on9:24 am - Feb 9, 2016


Jingso.Jimsie 9th February 2016 at 3:00 am #Re the DR interview (by’Record Reporter’, no less) with Kieran Prior:
“Prior, a childhood Rangers fan, owns around 2.5 per cent of the club and has invested £1million in the last 12 months.”
How has he done that?
Bought shares? He had 2.5% of the company in 2014, so probably not.
Is he the unknown 4th Bear? Part of the Hong Kong crowd? New Oasis Asset Ltd.? The Bank of Dave?
=========================
It would have been very interesting if “Record Reporter” had asked Mr Prior that very question. Although we are talking about that bastion of journalistic excellence, the Daily Record, so too much to ask for, really. I did note that the Record article is based on “an interview”, and while of course I absolutely trust everything I read in that esteemed journal, I thought I would try to find a copy of this interview, just as a matter of interest.
I understand that the article is based on an interview with Prior by City AM, a business based free paper circulating widely in the London commuter belt. The City AM article is posted below. The only mention of any investment by Prior beyond the shares he has held since 2013 is in the final paragraph. So he intends to buy more shares at some point in the future- maybe. Which makes the Record claim of £1m invested by Prior in the last year appear to be simply made up. They wouldn’t do that, would they?

http://www.cityam.com/233979/rangers…ct-retail-deal
Rangers shareholder Kieran Prior, a former Goldman Sachs trader with a reported IQ of 234, has urged club chairman Dave King to continue his legal battle with Mike Ashley’s Sports Direct.
Prior believes King should seek to terminate the Rangers Retail joint venture with Sports Direct in court as soon as possible, should the FTSE 100-listed company decline an offer from the club to call time on the deal.
Earlier this week, Ashley failed in his attempt to have a gagging order imposed on Rangers which would prevent them from making public details of a controversial retail partnership agreed in 2012. It has since emerged that the club earned just 4p from every pound spent in its official stadium store.
“That doesn’t represent shareholder value,” Prior told City A.M. “The average top flight football club makes roughly 30 per cent of its revenue through merchandise – but that’s not a possibility under the terms of this deal.
“Most sporting enterprises of any kind make 60 per cent gross margins on their merchandise products. I know Rangers make nothing like that at all and for a club of our size that’s a disgrace.
“We have the potential to be a club as big as Manchester United but any club which did not have fair terms on its merchandising deal, why the hell would they not tear it up? It seems illogical to me.”
It was revealed in the Guardian yesterday that the deal had agreements including a seven-year notice period, obligations for Rangers Retail to buy stock at a “considerably higher cost than its retail value”, a clause that forced Rangers to pay Sports Direct £620,000 for closing down two former club stores and a clause allowing Sports Direct to force Rangers out of its shareholding in Rangers Retail.
Rangers have now formally given notice to end its relationship with Sports Direct and reminded the retail giant in a statement of their “right to proceed with challenges to the existing suite of contracts and side agreements in a court of law.”
The joint venture between the two parties was agreed in August 2012 under a previous board headed by former chief executive Charles Green, who has since appeared at the Edinburgh High Court to face fraud charges.
In the year to April 2015, Sports Direct made £3.8m from Rangers Retail sales during a period in which the cash-strapped Scottish club were in dire need of funds.
“The agreement was made during a leadership that has been called into some doubt,” said Prior, who owns roughly over one per cent of the club but plans to increase his shareholding.
He continued: “I’d be bewildered if King didn’t pursue this in court. It would seem contrary to the demands of the football club and the fans and the rights of the shareholders not to make this as rapid a process as possible.”
One of the most intelligent men in the world, Prior bought 785,000 shares in the Glasgow club in 2013 and plans to increase his influence with further purchases once he has completed work on a business opportunity on the West Coast of America.

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ReiverPosted on9:54 am - Feb 9, 2016


I see there are a number of recent post suggesting that what is need is to clear all the current administrators and replace them.
Well???
Posting on blogs ain’t gonna make it happen.
Spread the word.
SIGN the PETITION!

https://www.change.org/p/scottish-football-association-return-integrity-to-football-administration-in-scotland-94421b40-2d6b-4d4b-9cff-912c9849478f

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bluPosted on10:10 am - Feb 9, 2016


“One of the most intelligent men in the world, Prior bought 785,000 shares in the Glasgow club in 2013.”
Did the author of the piece, Joe Hall, see the oxymoronic potential? 

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Allyjambo

AllyjamboPosted on10:19 am - Feb 9, 2016


neepheid 9th February 2016 at 9:24 am

So, what do we learn from that article? 

Could it be that a man with an IQ of 234 knows that, if you have a deal that isn’t all that good for you, it would be a good idea to get it changed?

Somehow I get the impression that even bears with an IQ of 2, 3, or 4, managed to work that one out for themselves some time ago.

Still, I expect a man of such high intelect will come up with a better idea of how to force Big Mike’s hand than the guy who came up with the SD share give-away plan 21 when he eventually gets around to it!

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Homunculus

HomunculusPosted on10:35 am - Feb 9, 2016


Why would you not listen to this chap Prior with his ludicrously high IQ.

Accepting that these numbers are of dubious worth anyway and that they are almost certainly affected by socio-environmental factors it is worth considering other people said to have a high IQ.

Steven Hawking, something of a simpleton with a mere 160

Albert Einstein, a more respectable estimate of between 160 and 190

Christopher Langan, described as “the smartest man in America” 195 – 210

Terence Tao – PhD from Princeton at 20, Professor at UCLA at 24, alleged to have an IQ of 230.

Yes chaps, Kieron Prior, lifetime Rangers supporter is in fact the cleverest person alive today. It must be true, the daily record said so.

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zerotolerance1903

zerotolerance1903Posted on10:42 am - Feb 9, 2016


Former Goldman Sachs trader not respecting commercial contracts, sounds about right. 

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neepheid

neepheidPosted on10:48 am - Feb 9, 2016


Allyjambo 9th February 2016 at 10:19 am #neepheid 9th February 2016 at 9:24 am
So, what do we learn from that article? 
===================================
We learn about the wisdom of Kieron Prior-

  1. “Rangers” have the potential to be as big as Man Utd 2121
  2. A company should just tear up any commercial contracts that it doesn’t like 1414
  3. When you invest a large sum in buying shares in a company, and lose most of it, the best thing to do is buy more shares in the same company 0505

Or to sum it up- intelligence and common sense are two entirely different things. And outside of the academic world of maths and pure science, common sense is a much more valuable commodity.

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DenPosted on11:36 am - Feb 9, 2016


said Prior, who owns roughly over one per cent of the club but plans to increase his shareholding.

From “roughly over one per cent” to something approximately more than that I assume. 
The wealthy Rangers fans could have had the lot for £5.5m, Charles Green did.
If they go to Court asking for a Commercial contract to be altered they will need a better argument than “it is not Fair” or “a big CEO did and Eh …… we don’t idolise him any more”.
Unless there is evidence of unfair practice they will see out the deal, or buy it out.
I am not saying that it is not heavily (morally it could be argued, unfairly) weighted against them however there were no better alternatives. 

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normanbatesmumfc

normanbatesmumfcPosted on11:51 am - Feb 9, 2016


Mr Prior allegedly says;
“That doesn’t represent shareholder value,” Prior told City A.M. “The average top flight football club makes roughly 30 per cent of its revenue through merchandise – but that’s not a possibility under the terms of this deal.”

My arithmetic tells me if only 10% the worldwide supporter base, (50 million) bought a strip each say £40, we are talking £2 billion. At 5p in the pound that’s still £100million from their share of the revenue. How is that not more than 30% of revenue?

Definitely possible under the terms of this deal they just need more of the supporters of the world’s most successful club to pony up for a strip!

Genius my bahookie….

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