So Mr Charles if off the tap the Chinese market, I seem to remember I heard chat of developing the Rangers brand in the far flung corners of the globe not so long ago.
Right on the continuation of history etc, it has occurred that there is a rather simple way of getting the message across.
My mate in the 1990’s, and divorced some 15 years later. That marriage was gone, dead so to speak.
He later met a lovely girl and remarried. They have been married for two years.
Now when in conversation, if anyone asks how long he has been married he says just over two years now, he doesn’t add the former 15 years into the equation and say 17 years.
Now next time The Rangers/ Rangers football club etc comes up, I can tackle the ‘history’ aspect with him and put it to him that claiming another’s history is like claiming that he has been married for 17 years, which is something that he would really argue against.
So, though technically it is true that he has been married for 17 years. That is because there have been two marriages, so when MSM refer to 140 years of history, then that point may be arguable but only because there have been two clubs. So in order that I stop arguing with the radio, when MSM refer to Rangers, I will remember that they really refer to Twoclubs.
Several weeks ago I sent an email to the SFL asking for clarification on several issues with regard to the use of the name rangers for the newco,this being the same name that oldco were known by,and imo and others it was/is misrepresentive/ misleading.Also why the sfl website lists them as forming in 1872,and trophies and honours date back to then.
I received a reply from Carol Keith at the sfl,and the reply was as follows :
Mr xxxxxxxxxx
Re your emails.TheSFL has accepted Rangers as an Associate Member.
The SFA membership of Rangers FC was transferred from Rangers Football Club PLC ( IA ) (“Oldco”) to Sevco Scotland Limited (now called The Rangers Football Ltd) (“Newco”) in terms of Article 14 of the Scottish Football Associations Articles of Association and therefore it is entirely appropriate for the Scottish Football League to represent Rangers in this manner.
Carol Keith etc
They still would not answer the question of transfer of history,trophies,etc,so I have just emailed again to get clarity on that issue,I did ask if the history etc stays with oldco as what happened with Airdrie.
Catch up later,off for a pint
Just read that Charlie does China piece in The Herald! Wonderful, another patently transparent spiv in charge at Ibrox! All the more astounding that the Sevcovians have fallen for it hook, line and sinker…….AGAIN!
Biggest club in Scotland my erchie. Big clubs play in the Champions League Charlie boy.
Mechyfitter
Ask them if it is possible for one member club to transfer its membership to itself could also ask if it is possible for any incorporated company to become members of the sfa i.e. Coca cola …
Jackson on Talksport is introduced as the man who broke the ‘Whitstheirname’ story and who kept it going and had been proved to be right.
Jackson chuckles smugly.
Webster says:
September 4, 2012 at 01:12
———-
‘…What if, by Christmas, Liquidation Deniers are able to argue that the only book about this is by a guy who blogged about U1ster flutes, C@tholic schools, Bllly Boys and priests??.’
———
Three observations, Webster:
1) when other peepils’ bogitry distorts the functioning of a Sporting Association such that other members of that Association are seriously cheated out of sporting honours and the related financial gains, perhaps we should NOT be too ready to ‘leave that behind.’
2) there will be other books ( one, at least, by RTC), written by authors with no history of ‘blog sectarianism’, so that others can cross-check the facts and draw their own ‘neutral’ conclusions as to the worth of the book as any kind of ‘truth’
3) Is there in any case any evidence that in Phil’s BOOK there IS any ranting,raving, ‘sectarianism’? As I’ve said already, what else he may have written is irrelevant if his book is factually accurate and free from the equivalent of RM incoherent bile
Jackson: It would not surprise me if Well game is played in an empty Ibrox.
Imagine DR headline if it happened:
Unprecedented crowd at Gers game!
With regard to my previous post,I received a very quick reply from Carol at the sfl which said I quote “I think this has already been answered in my reply.”
Upon receiving this,I emailed back saying words to the effect that,”Sorry,but are you saying that the division 3 club,The Rangers,have all the history and titles of the football club that used to be in the SPLand are now in administration.?
A quicker reply came back,”According to the SFA rules the answer is yes”.
Once again the sfa/sfl/spl/ have acted disgracefully,what a bunch of lowlifes.
Boycotts of games should happen,especially the world cup qualifiers,I hope Scotland get gubbed,and embarrassed in every game……going on many past performances its a good possibility.Total Disgust.
iki says:
September 4, 2012 at 11:27
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Jackson on Talksport is introduced as the man who broke the ‘Whitstheirname’ story and who kept it going and had been proved to be right.
Jackson chuckles smugly.
—————————————————-
Their shamelessness has no equal. The fact that they continually, desperately screech the mantra that “this man broke the story!! honest!” tells us all we need to know.
Bet they didn’t say that even after Jackson “broke” (ahem) the Ticketus story that he just as quickly pulled it because RFC (may they rest in peace) objected.
Copy and Paste as we know is a fine tool for Scotland’s “Sports “Journalist” of the Year”.
Posters ‘Night Terror’ ‘Mac’ try to enlighten RS readers – worth reading. Post 1006 and following although both posters make eminent sense throughout the blog.
Captain Haddock says:
September 4, 2012 at 02:27
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It was only 5 minutes….
It doesn’t change the fact that he was illegally registered….and the illegally registered player…played and scored twice against the mighty Elgin City on Sunday…which as far as I am aware is an automatic 3 nil defeat for SEVCO…
Now will Elgin challenge this with the SFA?
taxman cometh,
I am over this sfa/sfl/spl circus for the present.google sfl,etc the email address is there
twopanda bears says:
September 4, 2012 at 10:09
-‘.Apologies if already posted – but some people very busy in late August on this, seems balanced:’ Link to Wikipedia re the saga
—–
It might be meant to be ‘balanced’, but it has an appearance of balance, only, and kind of trivialises the whole thing.
No mention of police investigation into sale of club, no mention of Court’s reservations about D&P ‘conflicted’ situation, no mention of queries re the validity of granting SFA membership, no mention of political interference, of allegations of financial scamming ….
In other words, it is a less than scholarly summary ( par for the course for Wikipedia) .
Charles Green is using the exact same moonbeams instruction manual as Craig Whyte. Yet despite the startling similarities between the 2 dodgy dealers, the MSM still refuse to ask a single pertinent question.
WRT Phil’s book, all that RM/FF have to do is to produce their own version (surely the publishers would jump at the opportunity of a WATP bestseller) and discredit his?
Possibly entitled ‘Downfall – what Downfall?’, it could even be serialised in The Scottish Sun!
On second thoughts, wouldn’t truth, honesty, integrity, facts, evidence, liquidation, FTT/Dual Contracts findings etc get in the way?
mechyfitter says:
September 4, 2012 at 11:40
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
In that case can the SFL explain why the club you speak of have NOT been deducted 25 points as they are still in Administration when the current season started?
This should be interesting!
@Mechyfitter……….. Ask which SPL rules they are referring to!
Agreed Ordinary Fan, that’s a ‘non-answer’.
mechyfitter says:
September 4, 2012 at 11:40
==========================================================================
This looks to me like official confirmation that the SFA/SFL accept Sevco are indeed RFC(IA).Maybe we should ask them,therefore:
Why the need to transfer membership to Sevco,if they’re the same entity.
Why did Sevco not start the season with a points deduction for still being in administration
Why did players have to TUPE when they were obviously still employed by same club
Why were Sevco not suspended for failure to lodge accounts.
Why are Sevco not allowed to play in the Champions League c/w no european football for three years
Why were Sevco not allowed to play pre-season friendlies if their registration was valid
Why were Sevco allowed to defer a transfer embargo if still a continuation of RFC(IA)
I’m sure you could ask these questions and more of the good lady at the SFL.Maybe the question we should ask her is:
Why were they called Sevco,in the first place.
mechyfitter says:
September 4, 2012 at 10:03
I actually met the man whilst on holiday in mid 80’s we were both staying in a hotel in Las Americas in the month of Feb. We were the only two people in the pool the day we first spoke and believe it of not I never heard the guy swear the whole week we were there, I kid you not. I had heard of him through a colleague from Harrogate in Yorkshire funny enough, I used to play Hector Nicol in the car and he brought along Chubby tapes. From recollection the man himself told me he was from Middleborough hence my staement but I’m willing to accept he may have been refering to his location at that time. He used to sit at the poolside all day listening to recording of his own shows so he could commit everthing to memory. He also would buy every tabloid paper and read them cover to cover as he said you would always find material in there for his act.
We digress from the blog
If SKY or ESPN where to advertise a game that involved SEVCO under the name Rangers could they be reported to the broadcasting authority for false advertising? or worse legally challenged for trying to sell a product that no longer exists?
Captain Haddock, Nowoldandgrumpy, others September 4, 2012.
More suspicious deeds being done, to the absolute denial of those in whose favour they’re being done. The Ibrox/Hampden axis needs to become history. The question is how will that happen given the composition of the SFA boards, and the oldco-newco empathies of many of the 42 club chairmen?
Fans of all clubs have already shown the power they have. Can that show of democratic strength be repeated? Do the fans care enough? I don’t know, but I do know we need a democratic and a fair basis for all issues to do with our game and soon, or it’s history.
WRT the computer ‘glitch’…
I work at a fairly senior level in industry and regularly submit tenders for substantial contracts.
My clients set deadlines and if I miss them then I am almost certainly out of the reckoning – why should I get any preferential treatment over my competitors?
If a tender has to be delivered to a specific location by 1200hrs then that is what happens.
I factor in delivery times, possible ‘glitches’ and allow some contingency. I have not failed to get a tender in on time in the past 30 years. In fact, I have never failed to get a tender in on time.
The deadline for the SFA was well known. Failure to have something in well before the deadline – and risking a ‘glitch’ – is unprofessional.
In allowing such a late registration the SFA is pandering to an unprofessional organisation when their competitors have heeded the deadline and acted responsibly towards it.
When does the reed stop bending and finally snap? When do we start to see some indication of integrity from our ruling bodies in their dealings with Sevco? Is that only applicable to the Spartans of this world?
/ Red Lichtie
See Phil’s book is racing up the Amazon Top 100, last time I looked it was at 20 having been at 27 an hour before.
Well played Scottish Sun.
Justinian says:
September 4, 2012 at 03:41
Herald Tue 4 Sep…
“Today we are the strongest club in Scotland,” he added in an interview with Der Spiegel magazine. “We have the biggest fanbase, no debts, no loans, no overdraft and money in the bank……
BIGGEST FAN BASE?…..based on what?
NO DEBTS? SEASON TICKETS ARE A DEBT…..or does Charlie think that the season ticket money is a gift?…
NO OVERDRAFT….you don’t have any banking facilities ya plum!
NO LOANS….REALLY….WHY ARE 2 GUYS FROM TICKETUS INVOLVED?
Charlie Green really is the biggest 2 faced liar we have witnessed for quite some time….and he is being allowed to go unchallenged?!
May I add in my congratulations to the Sun for the priceless publicity they have provided, to say nothing about their intervention now means Phil’s word is almost certainly not going to be the final on the subject. It’s an own goal of Gary Caldwell proportions.
Nowoldandgrumpy and Captain Haddock
Agree completely about late registration etc etc but what can any of us do?? We should all be used to cheats fc laughing in the face of rules but who do we complain to? Or do we live in hope that good eventually tops evil in this whole sorry twisted mess 🙁
If a computer “glitch” did occur during the late registration of Templeton I’m assuming the SFA have verified the existence of a “glitch” before accepting it as valid.
Has anyone asked them?
The registration of templeton @ 00.05 on 1st September means he was signed after the transfer embargo started, so just after the transfer window was meant to shut. Fail x2 SFA.
Re Phil’s book
Just to check that there are no shenanigans afoot, we should all request that our local library gets the book in.
Then later, ask if the request has been actioned or refused, and if so why. Big cheeses in local authorities could then be contacted if there have been any fishy reasons.
Its usually middle management in libraries that do stock purchases and they would probably approve a request unless there have been any contact from above.
Remember some local authorities were owed money by RFC and have not taken any action to have them recovered and may still be providing services to RFC and/or TRFC. Paranoid? not me.
Why are Sevco fans organising a boycott of Amazon?
Is it because of Amazon’s tax avoidance policies?
john clarke says:
September 4, 2012 at 11:49
twopanda bears says:
September 4, 2012 at 10:09
-’.Apologies if already posted – but some people very busy in late August on this, seems balanced:’ Link to Wikipedia re the saga
—–
It might be meant to be ‘balanced’, but it has an appearance of balance, only, and kind of trivialises the whole thing.
No mention of police investigation into sale of club, no mention of Court’s reservations about D&P ‘conflicted’ situation, no mention of queries re the validity of granting SFA membership, no mention of political interference, of allegations of financial scamming ….
In other words, it is a less than scholarly summary ( par for the course for Wikipedia) .
__________________________________________________________________
jc – this was posted as a potential reference available to a world-wide audience and in the long term historical perspective. It is less than a month`s work in progress to date however I don`t see evidence of trivialisation. I checked the contributors, many of whom have edited wiki for some years over many subjects and appear neutral. It does reference the criminal investigation if you look, but yes no ref to the COI report [as yet]. When not if objective narratives can be employed with citations on SFA membership details, political interaction or financial impropriety I`m sure they will be added in due course. I`d like to see a section for example on the ignoring of the existing football rules – as one factual direct result of the insolvency – which could even now could be accurately and objectively tabulated. – or indeed, by the wiki title – the administrations bidding process and the various parties involved, why they all dropped out leading to CG as PB as a direct result of the insolvency and administration
Wiki is not everyone`s cup of tea for sure jc – But I find the mature developed WIKI pages a valuable objective resource – It`s early days for this one agreed.
I thought it was worth bringing to the attention of the Blog should people wish to contribute. That`s all.
Does anyone have a sense of deja vu in all of this.
The previous regime seemed to do everything they could to antagonise everyone. HMRC, Scottish Football, other clubs and creditors.
The regime of the new club appears to be doing the same. Never concilliatory, always antagonistic.
Is it really just playing to the crowd to keep them onside, or is there more to it.
The MSM will always spin a story based on how they feel.
I remember an old joke, relayed by a prominent journalist during an after dinner speech to relate how slants can be made.
Many years ago, as the crowd emerged from the Kelvin Hall following the Tennent’s Sixes, a young boy was attacked by a rotweiller as his mum screams in panic.
A young lad jumps in, tears the dog off, suffering horrific injuries as he wrestles the dog.
As he lies in the back of an ambulance, a reporter from a local rag turns up.
‘Right Son, ye saved the wean fae that mad dug?,I’ll paint ye a hero, yer mammy will be proud!!. Are ye a Rangers Man, I’ll print BEAR SAVES CUB!
Naw? Motherwell, how about ‘ALL’s WELL, MOTHER’
Naw? St Mirren, ok ‘YOU’RE MY BUDDY’
Naw? a Jambo ‘ACE OF HEARTS’
Naw? a Kilmarnock supporter that will be easy, ‘KILLIE-D, CHILD SAVED FROM SAVAGE BEAST’
NAW?? Whit’s that? yer a CELTIC man?
SUPER, A’ve goat the perfect headline, don’t you worry, but I’ll be off to get it phoned in, son, just you keep a look out the morra’
The young lad goes home after treatment, tells the story, his proud mum runs off to the newsagent first thing in the morning for the paper.
She is greeted by the headline:
F3N14N, KILLS FAMILY PET!!
It did bring the house down, but the irony wasn’t missed. The point was made that its how the headline reads that puts the story across, not the content of the article.
Phils book up to 13 in the Amazon charts at 1.00pm 🙂
I have to be honest I have always tended to avoid Phil’s blog.
The Incubator piece , we could or could not discuss as being sectar”an, is clearly crass, juvenile , offensive and unhelpful – all of which could have been forgiven had it been in any way funny.
I will buy his book – a useful addition which may or may not illuminate some of the finer points of the saga. I will , of course, read with an open mind.
As for Rangers fans currently enraptured with SEVCO, I think it would take far more than this book to change attitudes – or even the welter and mass of evidence which I am looking forward to in RTC’s book
They are in a paranoid denial with which it is impossible to reason. Once CG has ripped them off and walked, things may change though I suspect it will still all be unfair and someone else’s fault, and they will still be doled out masses of sympathy and lies from our dismal press. When another charlatan replaces him with yet another new “holding company” expect more of the same.
They are perfectly capable of learning – I don’t buy the “knuckle draggers” picture of all Rangers fans for one minute as many are highly educated, articulate and extremely literate – as are the MSM – they just don’t like the truth and so, like many many others who find truth uncomfortable or a direct contradiction of their most deeply held beliefs, they choose the path of wilful ignorance.
It is hard ( close to impossible actually) to enlighten those who choose to stay ignorant and who regard enlightenment as a threat and an assault.
Dear sir/madam.
I have picked up on correspondance between yourselves and a poster on The Scottish Football Monitor regarding your email stating that the sfa rules state that Trfc can claim the history of rfc.
Can you explain exactly which rules state that a club can be liquidated and leave behind £135million of debts to the taxman, other clubs and many more innocent creditors, only to start again the next day and assume the previous status of the old club minus all the restrictive debts unpaid.
Rfc did not have a holding company, the private club incorporated as a ltd company before changing structure again as a plc. You could not buy two seperate share certificates in the plc and the club, one certificate covered both as they were one and the same legal entity. Are you stating that the club never able to be owned by supporters because i feel you may have totally devalued my own shares in Celtic fc, as i can assure you, i dont own shares in a holding company.
I feel you may also have many many questions to answer from other bloggers regarding sevcos admission into the league and membership transfers and so on and i willl look out for the answers on TSFM to these questions, and post your reply to my queries on the monitor also.
Thank you.
bangordub says:
September 4, 2012 at 13:09
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Phils book up to 13 in the Amazon charts at 1.00pm
==========================
Is it wrong that I lolled at that.
In other news, Amazon must be petrified that a mob of semi-litrates won’t be buying their regular supply of books from them any more. The Sun readership must be a demographic they guard jealously.
Good Afternoon.
Should we still be surprised at anything the SFA do? No
Months ago I, together with many on RTC, warned that if the head of the snake was not chopped off the beast would come back twice as strong and continue with their traditional song book.
Here we are 3 months after Lord Hodge demanded a report from D&P and we have heard nothing. I am a great supporter of the independence of our Judges but I am becoming more and more suspicious about the delay.
They openly proclaim that they were Rangers then and now and will be in the future.Not until the liquidation happens will the knuckle draggers accept that maybe, just maybe, something was wrong.
The SFA had a chance to do something for the game and society but guided by the Grand Puppetmaster , Ogilvie, they broke every rule they could and invented some that were not even there to reinvent Zombiegers and pretend they always existed.
I have no problem if an organisation wants to call a meeting and make a proposal which changes or introduces a rule but when it is expressly states that you cannot do somethin and you go ahead and do it, such as transfer a membership, it is a step too far.
As for computer clitches, utter nonsense. If you are selling your house and offers are to be in by 12 noon you can bet your boots that the legals will have it done and in on time. Another con by the S(tinking)FA
This story has a long way to run and it will be hard going. The Establishment will use every dirty trick in the book and then some. We have to be vigilant and keep getting the message across, Cheats cannot be allowed to prosper.
Where is Paulie Walnuts when you need some legal guidance 🙂
Am I alone in remembering several deals over the years that took pace a few minutes after the deadline? I think a certain amount of leeway is generally agreed upon.
We will not be responding to any further correspondence re the above as it seems that previous responses are being posted on websites. ==========================
First time ive had a response from the sfl. Whats the problem with sharing the information.
No point in being irate over Templeton. It is a wilful and clear breach of the rules by the SFA over player registration to Rangers – but well computers will break down so inconveniently – it used to be fax machines in the old days I recall!
I did text BEEB asking them to investigate on Saturday, but they don’t appear to employ any journalists and so can’t ask questions.
I fully expect the SFA themselves next summer to act as a holding company for registrations for SEVCO – where they will hold them until after midnight on the first September to be release to whatever version of Rangers thay have catapulted up to the top level next season.
A joke!
De Profundis says:
September 3, 2012 at 23:35
7 16 Rate This
Angus says:
September 3, 2012 at 20:38
22 1 Rate This
One outcome of this is that the editorial team of The Sun are evidently now fully aware of the salient points contained in Phil’s book – i.e. the FACTS of the matter. The piece must have been prepared for press, if not laid out and subbed to fit. It will therefore have been condensed into sub-3-syllable words, with appropriate screaming headlines etc.
—————————————————————————————–
That wouldn’t be hard to do, as it would probably have been written in single line sentences like his blog, for the benefit of his sycophantic readership.
—————-
After going through his Incubator piece I’m glad I heard his interviews before reading that. It’s not a very subtle form of satire.
Regarding sycophantic readership, I did notice dissenting voices among the comments, from professed Celtic fans who thought it was over the top. Must say I agreed with them.
It won’t stop me reading his book either, although I can see the piece may have alienated certain people who perhaps ought to. Pity that.
I may be an old-fashioned smug Tory Bar steward, but I read the Sun. I may even keep reading it.
Too many posters are, er, having a fly kick, based on the usual left-leaning sterotypes… Murdoch rag et al.
So, question: Is this the Scottish Football Monitor? Or a home for easily offended lefties?
rab says:
September 4, 2012 at 13:39
……………………………………..
It demonstrates that they are monitoring this site and so must be well aware of what the feeling out there is.
Keep up the good work.
The Scottish Football Monitor is a collection of all clubs fans who feel the governance of our game by all the ruling bodies is totally inept, and this is due to the type of response that was posted earlier on the blog by the poster asking about the sfa stance on rangers history transferring to a new club.
We feel we have had to unite to have our opinion voiced, and as customers of this game, we demand answers to our fair and appropriate questions. We do not want to be disenfranchised from the game due to inept rulers or manipulation of rules for the benefit of a club who forced itself out of business and is still due to answer questions regarding the most serious breaches of rules over at least a decade, resulting in loss of honours and money to our clubs, and the very real effect of my celtic shares losing value.
To say you will not respond if we publish the response is unnacceptable. I am still waiting for an answer to my question.
Thank you
Excellent rab…. good for you! Chapeau!
piston broke says:
September 4, 2012 at 13:46
I may be an old-fashioned smug Tory Bar steward, but I read the Sun. I may even keep reading it.
Too many posters are, er, having a fly kick, based on the usual left-leaning sterotypes… Murdoch rag et al.
So, question: Is this the Scottish Football Monitor? Or a home for easily offended lefties?
——————————————————–
One of the purposes of this blog was to keep our eye on the wrongdoings of the press.
If Paul McConville is around:-
Paul your article from July had Business Rates at £1.3 million
Has Phil got a ghostwriter for his book?
If it is written in the same format as his blogs, I think i’ll give it a miss.
I may be an old-fashioned smug Tory Bar steward, but I read the Sun. I may even keep reading it
————————————————————————————————————————-
That’s why change is so slow……. we get the press we deserve……
rab says:
September 4, 2012 at 13:39
i
We will not be responding to any further correspondence re the above as it seems that previous responses are being posted on websites.
======================================
rab, It was the SFA that was all for transparency!!! not the SFL, its quite obvious.
Never trust Any man who can read a book without opening it.
Not being a big fan of Phil, (I just don’t like his writing style and not being a Celtic fan I find him too single minded) I hadn’t planned to buy this book. Instead I was going to await the RTC book. However, given the actions of the Sevco fans, The Sun and in order to stick it up the cabal assisting Sevco break every moral and actual rule, I have decided to go onto Amazon and order a copy. I hope it makes number one and gets international attention as a result.
miki67 says, September 4, 2012 at 11:27
…They are tax dodgers.
——–
Only of you accept that TRFC are the same club, with the same history, as RFC(IA). 😉
******
paulmac says, September 4, 2012 at 12:08
If SKY or ESPN where to advertise a game that involved SEVCO under the name Rangers could they be reported to the broadcasting authority for false advertising? or worse legally challenged for trying to sell a product that no longer exists?
——
False advertising for what, exactly?
Sevco changed their name to Rangers, remember.
(Just keeping an eye on the facts, folks. 🙂 )
Interesting point alluded to above re: post-midnight Templeton hi-jinks.
Would be nice to see them produce the ‘rule’ that covers this, and also an explanation as to why it only applies to a reincarnation of Rangers and not others such as Airdrie. But, of course, they won’t, because they can’t. Looks to me that Sevco have managed to get one of their own to help out an overstretched SFA handle their difficult emails. It is the kind of response I’d love to hear Turnbull Hutton’s thoughts on.
smallteaser says:
September 4, 2012 at 14:00
If Paul McConville is around:-
Paul your article from July had Business Rates at £1.3 million
I pay just under £10k pa on a 5000sqf warehouse. No way is their rates £112k pa.
rab says:
September 4, 2012 at 13:39
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We will not be responding to any further correspondence re the above as it seems that previous responses are being posted on websites. ==========================
First time ive had a response from the sfl. Whats the problem with sharing the information.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Rab…ffs…it was meant to be a secret… 😀
Clearly they are concerned about an answer they provide contradicting the rules they have. Otherwise why would there be a sudden halt to any legitimate answer being provided?
I used to read Phil’s blog – it was through that I found a link to RTC and was introduced to the internet bampot family – by that time I had tired of Phil’s comments being hand picked – a couple of mine making a few points never mad eit past moderation so I never posted much. After RTC hooked me I did go back now and agin to visit – and found the Incubator not to my taste and to be honest unfunny – but each to their own.
Have had a few pints with Irvine Wlesh once and his hangers on – and found him a bore despite the books and films. So each mans liking is not another mans…
However since Leggo is able to sit in his yellow undies writing his blog, others have the right to do the same.
Freedom of speech is a fickle thing – it is a fine line between censorship and freedom to speak your mind. My position is as long as it is not threatening, insulting or libellous, I can stomach it – I even maurade on RM once in a while (better to know thine enemy!)
Chris Graham and their cohorts can try to suppress the truth and live in a fantasy land where every Bear is a nice guy and the rest of us – are well – not quite right….
But I live in a real world – and Phil has written a book on the reality of the situation whereby the likes of Chris Graham did not want anyone to know – they still dont want to know – and I dont want to know them!
Read, absorb and ask questions – its called education – some folks should try it!
P.S – as a socialist teenager, I got reported for asking for Mein Kampf at the local library – I explained to my parents I just wanted to knowthe enemy – but I never got to read it!!!
Angus says:
September 4, 2012 at 14:26
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miki67 says, September 4, 2012 at 11:27
…They are tax dodgers.
——–
Only of you accept that TRFC are the same club, with the same history, as RFC(IA).
******
paulmac says, September 4, 2012 at 12:08
If SKY or ESPN where to advertise a game that involved SEVCO under the name Rangers could they be reported to the broadcasting authority for false advertising? or worse legally challenged for trying to sell a product that no longer exists?
——
False advertising for what, exactly?
Sevco changed their name to THE Rangers football club Limited remember.
(Just keeping an eye on the facts, folks. )
Corrected that for you… 😉
The name change to “the” rangers was no doubt chosen so folk would just ignore the “the”, perpetuating the scam.
Still hoping the phoenix rules get them..
1 similar name,
2 same premises, same activity, same staff, same assets
3 shared director….CG
4 claiming the history
5 claiming to have purchased the old identity & history, even if the seller & the SFA couldn’t legally go along with it.
6 potentially same investors behind the scenes…? CW, SDM?
I wonder if Waterstones in Glasgow will put phils book up in their window in Glasgow, and if they do how long before someone paps the window in.
when will the sad lot realise that it was not timmy that put them out of business but the people who they lavished with love and loyalty and in return made them the laughing stock of the football world. they will always live in a world where the truth slaps them in the face but its always timmys fault, they do not see, they cannot see, due to the blindess of their bigotry.
“Rangers go into the game as a Third Division side after financial problems led to them dropping out of the Scottish Premier League.”
Thats news to me. I was under the impression they were in administration nearing liquidation.
It would be more accurate to say that :
“[The] Rangers go into the game as a Third Division side after [inheriting the SFA membership from last season’s Rangers, after] financial problems led to them dropping out of the Scottish Premier League [and existence as a football club].”
accies80(Harri159) says:
September 4, 2012 at 13:38
=========
Were those not that registrations had been signed before the end of the deadline but were not received after that by the SFA.
This case the registration took place after midnight as far as I am lead to believe.
smallteaser says:
September 4, 2012 at 14:00
If Paul McConville is around:-
Paul your article from July had Business Rates at £1.3 million
Some more thoughts on the rates issue. Normal rates period is 10 payments starting in April so last years rates would probably not have been included. If they made one payment in April and then Chuck took over the responsibility then that would tally with Paul’s £1.3m figure. I am assuming that his figure is the rateable value and they would pay around 43% of that in actual rates so that would come to the £56k figure.
Hope this makes sense 😀
Captain haddock they have always been the rangers both separate and distinct clubs the one in admin was the rangers football club plc the new one sevco is now the rangers football club ltd
rab,
I sent the original email to the sfl on the 22nd Aug,and fowarded it again on the 3rd Sept;I received all of the replies from them today.It is late down under in oz,I will contact TSFM admin tomorrow and see if I can foward the emails to them
Captain Haddock says:
September 4, 2012 at 14:57
4 0 Rate This
The name change to “the” rangers was no doubt chosen so folk would just ignore the “the”, perpetuating the scam.
Still hoping the phoenix rules get them..
1 similar name,
2 same premises, same activity, same staff, same assets
3 shared director….CG
4 claiming the history
5 claiming to have purchased the old identity & history, even if the seller & the SFA couldn’t legally go along with it.
6 potentially same investors behind the scenes…? CW, SDM?
——————————————————————————————————–
aye Cptain!
I asked this yesterday, which agency would take action on such transgression of the rules? Criminal? Corporate? does someone have to bring it to the attention of ‘the authorities’?
HMRC?
“(on A History of Western Philosophy) I was sometimes accused by reviewers of writing not a true history but a biased account of the events that I arbitrarily chose to write of. But to my mind, a man without a bias cannot write interesting history – if, indeed, such man exists.”
― Bertrand Russell
Dear all,
I have received a reply to my FOI request – made of the Ministry of Justice.
Headline there is an expectation (from the MoJ) that the FTTT will publish its decision in September 2012.
In addition – the MoJ have signalled that neither of the parties (at this time) have sought to delay publication of the decision, nor have any of the parties sought in any way to prevent the decision from being published in the public domain.
Happy days.
Please find attached the enquiry and the response – personal information redacted.
Thank you for your email of 24 August, in which you asked for the following information from the Ministry of Justice (MoJ):
‘’I would be grateful if you could assist with the following.
I seek information held by the Ministry of Justice surrounding the First Tier Tax Tribunal (“the FTTT”) concerning HMRC v Murray International Holdings / Rangers Football Club Ltd. The appeal to which I refer is the appeal made by Murray International Holdings to taxes which HMRC believe are due as a result of the yet unproven (miss)use of EBTs concerning Rangers Football Club. I understand from media reports that this appeal to the FTTT commenced in 2011 and that this concluded in late 2011 / early 2012, and a decision is now awaited from the FTTT.
Specifically I would like information on:
• When did the FTTT with reference to the appeal cited herein conclude i.e. what was the last day that evidence was given to the judges before they retired to consider their decision;
• The average time taken from the commencement of a FTTT hearing to the publication of the decision;
• With reference to the appeal cited herein – to date, is the time taken to conclude this appeal to the FTTT (in terms of publishing a decision) over or under the average time taken for the FTTT to publish a decision?
• To date, have any of the parties involved been advised as to when a decision will be published?
• To date, what information is held as to when a decision, on this appeal may be published?
• Have any of the parties involved requested or sought in any way to prevent the publication of a decision on this appeal into the public domain;
For the avoidance of doubt, I am not seeking any information on the outcome of this decision. I seek to understand the mechanics of the decision making process and when might a decision be reached. There is a strong public interest in this case in terms of general interest and media speculation (which I accept has no bearing on Freedom of Information). However, given the reported taxes due to HMRC and the fact that HMRC had voted against the CVA put forward by the administrators of Rangers Football Club, there is a public interest in establishing when this matter may be concluded and if the decision from the FTTT will be made a matter of public record otherwise.
I believe that this request contains all of the necessary elements required of a valid request in terms of section 8 of the Freedom of Information Act 2000.
I request that all personal information provided by me herein, is only used for the purposes of managing my request.
Thank you for your time.’’
Your request has been handled under the Freedom of Information Act 2000 (FOIA).
I can confirm that the department holds the information that you have asked for, but unfortunately it is too expensive for us to provide it to you as it would exceed the cost limit under section 12 of the FOI Act.
The law allows us to decline to answer requests under FOIA when we estimate that it would cost us more than £600 to identify, locate, extract, and then provide the information that has been asked for. There are only certain activities that we can take into account when making this calculation, but you may be interested to know that the limit is equivalent to 3½ working days’ worth of work, calculated at £25 per hour.
In this instance to provide you with the information we would be required to examine each individual case file as no statistical data exists regarding the average time taken from the commencement of a FTTT hearing to the publication of the decision.
The estimated cost of providing the information which is available is well above the £600 cost limit imposed on Freedom of Information requests and unfortunately, due to the way the information is held, it is not possible to suggest ways you can refine your request to bring it within the cost limit.
You can find out more about Section 12(1) by reading the extract from the Act and some guidance points we consider when applying this exemption, attached at the end of this letter.
In order to assist you with your request I have attempted to address some of your questions below:
• When did the FTTT with reference to the appeal cited herein conclude i.e. what was the last day that evidence was given to the judges before they retired to consider their decision;
The hearing was in private and it is possible that the identities of certain witnesses could be anonymised in the decision notice. So no details of names of witnesses or dates of proceedings can be released at present. The reason dates are confidential is that disclosure could enable identification of who attended.
• To date, have any of the parties involved been advised as to when a decision will be published?
• To date, what information is held as to when a decision, on this appeal may be published?
The judge is very much aware of the public interest in this appeal and is doing all he can to enable the decision to be issued to parties as soon as is possible, the expectation is that the decision will be issued in September 2012.
• Have any of the parties involved requested or sought in any way to prevent the publication of a decision on this appeal into the public domain;
We are not aware that any of the parties involved have requested or sought in any way to prevent the publication of a decision on this appeal into the public domain.
I am sorry that on this occasion I have not been able to be of more assistance. You have the right to appeal our decision if you think it is incorrect. Details can be found in the ‘How to Appeal’ section attached at the end of this letter.
Apologies if already posted – but some people very busy in late August on this, seems balanced:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Administration_and_liquidation_of_The_Rangers_Football_Club_Plc
So Mr Charles if off the tap the Chinese market, I seem to remember I heard chat of developing the Rangers brand in the far flung corners of the globe not so long ago.
A new tune to replace ‘Simply the Best’?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fm5vbXDiptU
Right on the continuation of history etc, it has occurred that there is a rather simple way of getting the message across.
My mate in the 1990’s, and divorced some 15 years later. That marriage was gone, dead so to speak.
He later met a lovely girl and remarried. They have been married for two years.
Now when in conversation, if anyone asks how long he has been married he says just over two years now, he doesn’t add the former 15 years into the equation and say 17 years.
Now next time The Rangers/ Rangers football club etc comes up, I can tackle the ‘history’ aspect with him and put it to him that claiming another’s history is like claiming that he has been married for 17 years, which is something that he would really argue against.
So, though technically it is true that he has been married for 17 years. That is because there have been two marriages, so when MSM refer to 140 years of history, then that point may be arguable but only because there have been two clubs. So in order that I stop arguing with the radio, when MSM refer to Rangers, I will remember that they really refer to Twoclubs.
Several weeks ago I sent an email to the SFL asking for clarification on several issues with regard to the use of the name rangers for the newco,this being the same name that oldco were known by,and imo and others it was/is misrepresentive/ misleading.Also why the sfl website lists them as forming in 1872,and trophies and honours date back to then.
I received a reply from Carol Keith at the sfl,and the reply was as follows :
Mr xxxxxxxxxx
Re your emails.TheSFL has accepted Rangers as an Associate Member.
The SFA membership of Rangers FC was transferred from Rangers Football Club PLC ( IA ) (“Oldco”) to Sevco Scotland Limited (now called The Rangers Football Ltd) (“Newco”) in terms of Article 14 of the Scottish Football Associations Articles of Association and therefore it is entirely appropriate for the Scottish Football League to represent Rangers in this manner.
Carol Keith etc
They still would not answer the question of transfer of history,trophies,etc,so I have just emailed again to get clarity on that issue,I did ask if the history etc stays with oldco as what happened with Airdrie.
Catch up later,off for a pint
Just read that Charlie does China piece in The Herald! Wonderful, another patently transparent spiv in charge at Ibrox! All the more astounding that the Sevcovians have fallen for it hook, line and sinker…….AGAIN!
Biggest club in Scotland my erchie. Big clubs play in the Champions League Charlie boy.
Mechyfitter
Ask them if it is possible for one member club to transfer its membership to itself could also ask if it is possible for any incorporated company to become members of the sfa i.e. Coca cola …
Jackson on Talksport is introduced as the man who broke the ‘Whitstheirname’ story and who kept it going and had been proved to be right.
Jackson chuckles smugly.
Webster says:
September 4, 2012 at 01:12
———-
‘…What if, by Christmas, Liquidation Deniers are able to argue that the only book about this is by a guy who blogged about U1ster flutes, C@tholic schools, Bllly Boys and priests??.’
———
Three observations, Webster:
1) when other peepils’ bogitry distorts the functioning of a Sporting Association such that other members of that Association are seriously cheated out of sporting honours and the related financial gains, perhaps we should NOT be too ready to ‘leave that behind.’
2) there will be other books ( one, at least, by RTC), written by authors with no history of ‘blog sectarianism’, so that others can cross-check the facts and draw their own ‘neutral’ conclusions as to the worth of the book as any kind of ‘truth’
3) Is there in any case any evidence that in Phil’s BOOK there IS any ranting,raving, ‘sectarianism’? As I’ve said already, what else he may have written is irrelevant if his book is factually accurate and free from the equivalent of RM incoherent bile
Jackson: It would not surprise me if Well game is played in an empty Ibrox.
Imagine DR headline if it happened:
Unprecedented crowd at Gers game!
New article from phil
http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/the-bigger-picture/#more-3075
With regard to my previous post,I received a very quick reply from Carol at the sfl which said I quote “I think this has already been answered in my reply.”
Upon receiving this,I emailed back saying words to the effect that,”Sorry,but are you saying that the division 3 club,The Rangers,have all the history and titles of the football club that used to be in the SPLand are now in administration.?
A quicker reply came back,”According to the SFA rules the answer is yes”.
Once again the sfa/sfl/spl/ have acted disgracefully,what a bunch of lowlifes.
Boycotts of games should happen,especially the world cup qualifiers,I hope Scotland get gubbed,and embarrassed in every game……going on many past performances its a good possibility.Total Disgust.
iki says:
September 4, 2012 at 11:27
0 0 Rate This
Jackson on Talksport is introduced as the man who broke the ‘Whitstheirname’ story and who kept it going and had been proved to be right.
Jackson chuckles smugly.
—————————————————-
Their shamelessness has no equal. The fact that they continually, desperately screech the mantra that “this man broke the story!! honest!” tells us all we need to know.
Bet they didn’t say that even after Jackson “broke” (ahem) the Ticketus story that he just as quickly pulled it because RFC (may they rest in peace) objected.
Copy and Paste as we know is a fine tool for Scotland’s “Sports “Journalist” of the Year”.
Posters ‘Night Terror’ ‘Mac’ try to enlighten RS readers – worth reading. Post 1006 and following although both posters make eminent sense throughout the blog.
http://www.therangersstandard.co.uk/index.php/forum/article-debate/680-alex-thomson-downfall?start=54
Captain Haddock says:
September 4, 2012 at 02:27
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It was only 5 minutes….
It doesn’t change the fact that he was illegally registered….and the illegally registered player…played and scored twice against the mighty Elgin City on Sunday…which as far as I am aware is an automatic 3 nil defeat for SEVCO…
Now will Elgin challenge this with the SFA?
taxman cometh,
I am over this sfa/sfl/spl circus for the present.google sfl,etc the email address is there
twopanda bears says:
September 4, 2012 at 10:09
-‘.Apologies if already posted – but some people very busy in late August on this, seems balanced:’ Link to Wikipedia re the saga
—–
It might be meant to be ‘balanced’, but it has an appearance of balance, only, and kind of trivialises the whole thing.
No mention of police investigation into sale of club, no mention of Court’s reservations about D&P ‘conflicted’ situation, no mention of queries re the validity of granting SFA membership, no mention of political interference, of allegations of financial scamming ….
In other words, it is a less than scholarly summary ( par for the course for Wikipedia) .
Charles Green is using the exact same moonbeams instruction manual as Craig Whyte. Yet despite the startling similarities between the 2 dodgy dealers, the MSM still refuse to ask a single pertinent question.
WRT Phil’s book, all that RM/FF have to do is to produce their own version (surely the publishers would jump at the opportunity of a WATP bestseller) and discredit his?
Possibly entitled ‘Downfall – what Downfall?’, it could even be serialised in The Scottish Sun!
On second thoughts, wouldn’t truth, honesty, integrity, facts, evidence, liquidation, FTT/Dual Contracts findings etc get in the way?
mechyfitter says:
September 4, 2012 at 11:40
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
In that case can the SFL explain why the club you speak of have NOT been deducted 25 points as they are still in Administration when the current season started?
This should be interesting!
@Mechyfitter……….. Ask which SPL rules they are referring to!
Agreed Ordinary Fan, that’s a ‘non-answer’.
mechyfitter says:
September 4, 2012 at 11:40
==========================================================================
This looks to me like official confirmation that the SFA/SFL accept Sevco are indeed RFC(IA).Maybe we should ask them,therefore:
Why the need to transfer membership to Sevco,if they’re the same entity.
Why did Sevco not start the season with a points deduction for still being in administration
Why did players have to TUPE when they were obviously still employed by same club
Why were Sevco not suspended for failure to lodge accounts.
Why are Sevco not allowed to play in the Champions League c/w no european football for three years
Why were Sevco not allowed to play pre-season friendlies if their registration was valid
Why were Sevco allowed to defer a transfer embargo if still a continuation of RFC(IA)
I’m sure you could ask these questions and more of the good lady at the SFL.Maybe the question we should ask her is:
Why were they called Sevco,in the first place.
mechyfitter says:
September 4, 2012 at 10:03
I actually met the man whilst on holiday in mid 80’s we were both staying in a hotel in Las Americas in the month of Feb. We were the only two people in the pool the day we first spoke and believe it of not I never heard the guy swear the whole week we were there, I kid you not. I had heard of him through a colleague from Harrogate in Yorkshire funny enough, I used to play Hector Nicol in the car and he brought along Chubby tapes. From recollection the man himself told me he was from Middleborough hence my staement but I’m willing to accept he may have been refering to his location at that time. He used to sit at the poolside all day listening to recording of his own shows so he could commit everthing to memory. He also would buy every tabloid paper and read them cover to cover as he said you would always find material in there for his act.
We digress from the blog
If SKY or ESPN where to advertise a game that involved SEVCO under the name Rangers could they be reported to the broadcasting authority for false advertising? or worse legally challenged for trying to sell a product that no longer exists?
Captain Haddock, Nowoldandgrumpy, others September 4, 2012.
More suspicious deeds being done, to the absolute denial of those in whose favour they’re being done. The Ibrox/Hampden axis needs to become history. The question is how will that happen given the composition of the SFA boards, and the oldco-newco empathies of many of the 42 club chairmen?
Fans of all clubs have already shown the power they have. Can that show of democratic strength be repeated? Do the fans care enough? I don’t know, but I do know we need a democratic and a fair basis for all issues to do with our game and soon, or it’s history.
WRT the computer ‘glitch’…
I work at a fairly senior level in industry and regularly submit tenders for substantial contracts.
My clients set deadlines and if I miss them then I am almost certainly out of the reckoning – why should I get any preferential treatment over my competitors?
If a tender has to be delivered to a specific location by 1200hrs then that is what happens.
I factor in delivery times, possible ‘glitches’ and allow some contingency. I have not failed to get a tender in on time in the past 30 years. In fact, I have never failed to get a tender in on time.
The deadline for the SFA was well known. Failure to have something in well before the deadline – and risking a ‘glitch’ – is unprofessional.
In allowing such a late registration the SFA is pandering to an unprofessional organisation when their competitors have heeded the deadline and acted responsibly towards it.
When does the reed stop bending and finally snap? When do we start to see some indication of integrity from our ruling bodies in their dealings with Sevco? Is that only applicable to the Spartans of this world?
/ Red Lichtie
See Phil’s book is racing up the Amazon Top 100, last time I looked it was at 20 having been at 27 an hour before.
Well played Scottish Sun.
Justinian says:
September 4, 2012 at 03:41
Herald Tue 4 Sep…
“Today we are the strongest club in Scotland,” he added in an interview with Der Spiegel magazine. “We have the biggest fanbase, no debts, no loans, no overdraft and money in the bank……
BIGGEST FAN BASE?…..based on what?
NO DEBTS? SEASON TICKETS ARE A DEBT…..or does Charlie think that the season ticket money is a gift?…
NO OVERDRAFT….you don’t have any banking facilities ya plum!
NO LOANS….REALLY….WHY ARE 2 GUYS FROM TICKETUS INVOLVED?
Charlie Green really is the biggest 2 faced liar we have witnessed for quite some time….and he is being allowed to go unchallenged?!
May I add in my congratulations to the Sun for the priceless publicity they have provided, to say nothing about their intervention now means Phil’s word is almost certainly not going to be the final on the subject. It’s an own goal of Gary Caldwell proportions.
Nowoldandgrumpy and Captain Haddock
Agree completely about late registration etc etc but what can any of us do?? We should all be used to cheats fc laughing in the face of rules but who do we complain to? Or do we live in hope that good eventually tops evil in this whole sorry twisted mess 🙁
If a computer “glitch” did occur during the late registration of Templeton I’m assuming the SFA have verified the existence of a “glitch” before accepting it as valid.
Has anyone asked them?
The registration of templeton @ 00.05 on 1st September means he was signed after the transfer embargo started, so just after the transfer window was meant to shut. Fail x2 SFA.
Re Phil’s book
Just to check that there are no shenanigans afoot, we should all request that our local library gets the book in.
Then later, ask if the request has been actioned or refused, and if so why. Big cheeses in local authorities could then be contacted if there have been any fishy reasons.
Its usually middle management in libraries that do stock purchases and they would probably approve a request unless there have been any contact from above.
Remember some local authorities were owed money by RFC and have not taken any action to have them recovered and may still be providing services to RFC and/or TRFC. Paranoid? not me.
Why are Sevco fans organising a boycott of Amazon?
Is it because of Amazon’s tax avoidance policies?
john clarke says:
September 4, 2012 at 11:49
twopanda bears says:
September 4, 2012 at 10:09
-’.Apologies if already posted – but some people very busy in late August on this, seems balanced:’ Link to Wikipedia re the saga
—–
It might be meant to be ‘balanced’, but it has an appearance of balance, only, and kind of trivialises the whole thing.
No mention of police investigation into sale of club, no mention of Court’s reservations about D&P ‘conflicted’ situation, no mention of queries re the validity of granting SFA membership, no mention of political interference, of allegations of financial scamming ….
In other words, it is a less than scholarly summary ( par for the course for Wikipedia) .
__________________________________________________________________
jc – this was posted as a potential reference available to a world-wide audience and in the long term historical perspective. It is less than a month`s work in progress to date however I don`t see evidence of trivialisation. I checked the contributors, many of whom have edited wiki for some years over many subjects and appear neutral. It does reference the criminal investigation if you look, but yes no ref to the COI report [as yet]. When not if objective narratives can be employed with citations on SFA membership details, political interaction or financial impropriety I`m sure they will be added in due course. I`d like to see a section for example on the ignoring of the existing football rules – as one factual direct result of the insolvency – which could even now could be accurately and objectively tabulated. – or indeed, by the wiki title – the administrations bidding process and the various parties involved, why they all dropped out leading to CG as PB as a direct result of the insolvency and administration
Wiki is not everyone`s cup of tea for sure jc – But I find the mature developed WIKI pages a valuable objective resource – It`s early days for this one agreed.
I thought it was worth bringing to the attention of the Blog should people wish to contribute. That`s all.
Does anyone have a sense of deja vu in all of this.
The previous regime seemed to do everything they could to antagonise everyone. HMRC, Scottish Football, other clubs and creditors.
The regime of the new club appears to be doing the same. Never concilliatory, always antagonistic.
Is it really just playing to the crowd to keep them onside, or is there more to it.
The MSM will always spin a story based on how they feel.
I remember an old joke, relayed by a prominent journalist during an after dinner speech to relate how slants can be made.
Many years ago, as the crowd emerged from the Kelvin Hall following the Tennent’s Sixes, a young boy was attacked by a rotweiller as his mum screams in panic.
A young lad jumps in, tears the dog off, suffering horrific injuries as he wrestles the dog.
As he lies in the back of an ambulance, a reporter from a local rag turns up.
‘Right Son, ye saved the wean fae that mad dug?,I’ll paint ye a hero, yer mammy will be proud!!. Are ye a Rangers Man, I’ll print BEAR SAVES CUB!
Naw? Motherwell, how about ‘ALL’s WELL, MOTHER’
Naw? St Mirren, ok ‘YOU’RE MY BUDDY’
Naw? a Jambo ‘ACE OF HEARTS’
Naw? a Kilmarnock supporter that will be easy, ‘KILLIE-D, CHILD SAVED FROM SAVAGE BEAST’
NAW?? Whit’s that? yer a CELTIC man?
SUPER, A’ve goat the perfect headline, don’t you worry, but I’ll be off to get it phoned in, son, just you keep a look out the morra’
The young lad goes home after treatment, tells the story, his proud mum runs off to the newsagent first thing in the morning for the paper.
She is greeted by the headline:
F3N14N, KILLS FAMILY PET!!
It did bring the house down, but the irony wasn’t missed. The point was made that its how the headline reads that puts the story across, not the content of the article.
Phils book up to 13 in the Amazon charts at 1.00pm 🙂
I have to be honest I have always tended to avoid Phil’s blog.
The Incubator piece , we could or could not discuss as being sectar”an, is clearly crass, juvenile , offensive and unhelpful – all of which could have been forgiven had it been in any way funny.
I will buy his book – a useful addition which may or may not illuminate some of the finer points of the saga. I will , of course, read with an open mind.
As for Rangers fans currently enraptured with SEVCO, I think it would take far more than this book to change attitudes – or even the welter and mass of evidence which I am looking forward to in RTC’s book
They are in a paranoid denial with which it is impossible to reason. Once CG has ripped them off and walked, things may change though I suspect it will still all be unfair and someone else’s fault, and they will still be doled out masses of sympathy and lies from our dismal press. When another charlatan replaces him with yet another new “holding company” expect more of the same.
They are perfectly capable of learning – I don’t buy the “knuckle draggers” picture of all Rangers fans for one minute as many are highly educated, articulate and extremely literate – as are the MSM – they just don’t like the truth and so, like many many others who find truth uncomfortable or a direct contradiction of their most deeply held beliefs, they choose the path of wilful ignorance.
It is hard ( close to impossible actually) to enlighten those who choose to stay ignorant and who regard enlightenment as a threat and an assault.
Dear sir/madam.
I have picked up on correspondance between yourselves and a poster on The Scottish Football Monitor regarding your email stating that the sfa rules state that Trfc can claim the history of rfc.
Can you explain exactly which rules state that a club can be liquidated and leave behind £135million of debts to the taxman, other clubs and many more innocent creditors, only to start again the next day and assume the previous status of the old club minus all the restrictive debts unpaid.
Rfc did not have a holding company, the private club incorporated as a ltd company before changing structure again as a plc. You could not buy two seperate share certificates in the plc and the club, one certificate covered both as they were one and the same legal entity. Are you stating that the club never able to be owned by supporters because i feel you may have totally devalued my own shares in Celtic fc, as i can assure you, i dont own shares in a holding company.
I feel you may also have many many questions to answer from other bloggers regarding sevcos admission into the league and membership transfers and so on and i willl look out for the answers on TSFM to these questions, and post your reply to my queries on the monitor also.
Thank you.
bangordub says:
September 4, 2012 at 13:09
2 0 i
Rate This
Phils book up to 13 in the Amazon charts at 1.00pm
==========================
Is it wrong that I lolled at that.
In other news, Amazon must be petrified that a mob of semi-litrates won’t be buying their regular supply of books from them any more. The Sun readership must be a demographic they guard jealously.
Good Afternoon.
Should we still be surprised at anything the SFA do? No
Months ago I, together with many on RTC, warned that if the head of the snake was not chopped off the beast would come back twice as strong and continue with their traditional song book.
Here we are 3 months after Lord Hodge demanded a report from D&P and we have heard nothing. I am a great supporter of the independence of our Judges but I am becoming more and more suspicious about the delay.
They openly proclaim that they were Rangers then and now and will be in the future.Not until the liquidation happens will the knuckle draggers accept that maybe, just maybe, something was wrong.
The SFA had a chance to do something for the game and society but guided by the Grand Puppetmaster , Ogilvie, they broke every rule they could and invented some that were not even there to reinvent Zombiegers and pretend they always existed.
I have no problem if an organisation wants to call a meeting and make a proposal which changes or introduces a rule but when it is expressly states that you cannot do somethin and you go ahead and do it, such as transfer a membership, it is a step too far.
As for computer clitches, utter nonsense. If you are selling your house and offers are to be in by 12 noon you can bet your boots that the legals will have it done and in on time. Another con by the S(tinking)FA
This story has a long way to run and it will be hard going. The Establishment will use every dirty trick in the book and then some. We have to be vigilant and keep getting the message across, Cheats cannot be allowed to prosper.
Where is Paulie Walnuts when you need some legal guidance 🙂
Am I alone in remembering several deals over the years that took pace a few minutes after the deadline? I think a certain amount of leeway is generally agreed upon.
We will not be responding to any further correspondence re the above as it seems that previous responses are being posted on websites. ==========================
First time ive had a response from the sfl. Whats the problem with sharing the information.
No point in being irate over Templeton. It is a wilful and clear breach of the rules by the SFA over player registration to Rangers – but well computers will break down so inconveniently – it used to be fax machines in the old days I recall!
I did text BEEB asking them to investigate on Saturday, but they don’t appear to employ any journalists and so can’t ask questions.
I fully expect the SFA themselves next summer to act as a holding company for registrations for SEVCO – where they will hold them until after midnight on the first September to be release to whatever version of Rangers thay have catapulted up to the top level next season.
A joke!
De Profundis says:
September 3, 2012 at 23:35
7 16 Rate This
Angus says:
September 3, 2012 at 20:38
22 1 Rate This
One outcome of this is that the editorial team of The Sun are evidently now fully aware of the salient points contained in Phil’s book – i.e. the FACTS of the matter. The piece must have been prepared for press, if not laid out and subbed to fit. It will therefore have been condensed into sub-3-syllable words, with appropriate screaming headlines etc.
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That wouldn’t be hard to do, as it would probably have been written in single line sentences like his blog, for the benefit of his sycophantic readership.
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After going through his Incubator piece I’m glad I heard his interviews before reading that. It’s not a very subtle form of satire.
Regarding sycophantic readership, I did notice dissenting voices among the comments, from professed Celtic fans who thought it was over the top. Must say I agreed with them.
It won’t stop me reading his book either, although I can see the piece may have alienated certain people who perhaps ought to. Pity that.
I may be an old-fashioned smug Tory Bar steward, but I read the Sun. I may even keep reading it.
Too many posters are, er, having a fly kick, based on the usual left-leaning sterotypes… Murdoch rag et al.
So, question: Is this the Scottish Football Monitor? Or a home for easily offended lefties?
rab says:
September 4, 2012 at 13:39
……………………………………..
It demonstrates that they are monitoring this site and so must be well aware of what the feeling out there is.
Keep up the good work.
The Scottish Football Monitor is a collection of all clubs fans who feel the governance of our game by all the ruling bodies is totally inept, and this is due to the type of response that was posted earlier on the blog by the poster asking about the sfa stance on rangers history transferring to a new club.
We feel we have had to unite to have our opinion voiced, and as customers of this game, we demand answers to our fair and appropriate questions. We do not want to be disenfranchised from the game due to inept rulers or manipulation of rules for the benefit of a club who forced itself out of business and is still due to answer questions regarding the most serious breaches of rules over at least a decade, resulting in loss of honours and money to our clubs, and the very real effect of my celtic shares losing value.
To say you will not respond if we publish the response is unnacceptable. I am still waiting for an answer to my question.
Thank you
Excellent rab…. good for you! Chapeau!
piston broke says:
September 4, 2012 at 13:46
I may be an old-fashioned smug Tory Bar steward, but I read the Sun. I may even keep reading it.
Too many posters are, er, having a fly kick, based on the usual left-leaning sterotypes… Murdoch rag et al.
So, question: Is this the Scottish Football Monitor? Or a home for easily offended lefties?
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One of the purposes of this blog was to keep our eye on the wrongdoings of the press.
If Paul McConville is around:-
Paul your article from July had Business Rates at £1.3 million
http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/07/27/rangers-fc-in-2012-2013-could-it-survive-financially/
D & P update in August has business rates for 6 months at £56,325
http://scotslawthoughts.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/rangers-progress-report-24-august-20121.pdf
Is this correct?????
Has Phil got a ghostwriter for his book?
If it is written in the same format as his blogs, I think i’ll give it a miss.
I may be an old-fashioned smug Tory Bar steward, but I read the Sun. I may even keep reading it
————————————————————————————————————————-
That’s why change is so slow……. we get the press we deserve……
rab says:
September 4, 2012 at 13:39
i
We will not be responding to any further correspondence re the above as it seems that previous responses are being posted on websites.
======================================
rab, It was the SFA that was all for transparency!!! not the SFL, its quite obvious.
Never trust Any man who can read a book without opening it.
Not being a big fan of Phil, (I just don’t like his writing style and not being a Celtic fan I find him too single minded) I hadn’t planned to buy this book. Instead I was going to await the RTC book. However, given the actions of the Sevco fans, The Sun and in order to stick it up the cabal assisting Sevco break every moral and actual rule, I have decided to go onto Amazon and order a copy. I hope it makes number one and gets international attention as a result.
miki67 says, September 4, 2012 at 11:27
…They are tax dodgers.
——–
Only of you accept that TRFC are the same club, with the same history, as RFC(IA). 😉
******
paulmac says, September 4, 2012 at 12:08
If SKY or ESPN where to advertise a game that involved SEVCO under the name Rangers could they be reported to the broadcasting authority for false advertising? or worse legally challenged for trying to sell a product that no longer exists?
——
False advertising for what, exactly?
Sevco changed their name to Rangers, remember.
(Just keeping an eye on the facts, folks. 🙂 )
Interesting point alluded to above re: post-midnight Templeton hi-jinks.
1. After the close of the transfer window.
2. After the start of the transfer embargo.
As said before – SFA FAIL x2!
mechyfitter says:
September 4, 2012 at 11:40,
”According to the SFA rules the answer is yes”.
_________________________________________________________________
Would be nice to see them produce the ‘rule’ that covers this, and also an explanation as to why it only applies to a reincarnation of Rangers and not others such as Airdrie. But, of course, they won’t, because they can’t. Looks to me that Sevco have managed to get one of their own to help out an overstretched SFA handle their difficult emails. It is the kind of response I’d love to hear Turnbull Hutton’s thoughts on.
smallteaser says:
September 4, 2012 at 14:00
If Paul McConville is around:-
Paul your article from July had Business Rates at £1.3 million
http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/07/27/rangers-fc-in-2012-2013-could-it-survive-financially/
D & P update in August has business rates for 6 months at £56,325
http://scotslawthoughts.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/rangers-progress-report-24-august-20121.pdf
Is this correct?????
———————————–
I pay just under £10k pa on a 5000sqf warehouse. No way is their rates £112k pa.
rab says:
September 4, 2012 at 13:39
6 0 i
Rate This
We will not be responding to any further correspondence re the above as it seems that previous responses are being posted on websites. ==========================
First time ive had a response from the sfl. Whats the problem with sharing the information.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Rab…ffs…it was meant to be a secret… 😀
Clearly they are concerned about an answer they provide contradicting the rules they have. Otherwise why would there be a sudden halt to any legitimate answer being provided?
I used to read Phil’s blog – it was through that I found a link to RTC and was introduced to the internet bampot family – by that time I had tired of Phil’s comments being hand picked – a couple of mine making a few points never mad eit past moderation so I never posted much. After RTC hooked me I did go back now and agin to visit – and found the Incubator not to my taste and to be honest unfunny – but each to their own.
Have had a few pints with Irvine Wlesh once and his hangers on – and found him a bore despite the books and films. So each mans liking is not another mans…
However since Leggo is able to sit in his yellow undies writing his blog, others have the right to do the same.
Freedom of speech is a fickle thing – it is a fine line between censorship and freedom to speak your mind. My position is as long as it is not threatening, insulting or libellous, I can stomach it – I even maurade on RM once in a while (better to know thine enemy!)
Chris Graham and their cohorts can try to suppress the truth and live in a fantasy land where every Bear is a nice guy and the rest of us – are well – not quite right….
But I live in a real world – and Phil has written a book on the reality of the situation whereby the likes of Chris Graham did not want anyone to know – they still dont want to know – and I dont want to know them!
Read, absorb and ask questions – its called education – some folks should try it!
P.S – as a socialist teenager, I got reported for asking for Mein Kampf at the local library – I explained to my parents I just wanted to knowthe enemy – but I never got to read it!!!
Angus says:
September 4, 2012 at 14:26
0 0 i
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miki67 says, September 4, 2012 at 11:27
…They are tax dodgers.
——–
Only of you accept that TRFC are the same club, with the same history, as RFC(IA).
******
paulmac says, September 4, 2012 at 12:08
If SKY or ESPN where to advertise a game that involved SEVCO under the name Rangers could they be reported to the broadcasting authority for false advertising? or worse legally challenged for trying to sell a product that no longer exists?
——
False advertising for what, exactly?
Sevco changed their name to THE Rangers football club Limited remember.
(Just keeping an eye on the facts, folks. )
Corrected that for you… 😉
The name change to “the” rangers was no doubt chosen so folk would just ignore the “the”, perpetuating the scam.
Still hoping the phoenix rules get them..
1 similar name,
2 same premises, same activity, same staff, same assets
3 shared director….CG
4 claiming the history
5 claiming to have purchased the old identity & history, even if the seller & the SFA couldn’t legally go along with it.
6 potentially same investors behind the scenes…? CW, SDM?
I wonder if Waterstones in Glasgow will put phils book up in their window in Glasgow, and if they do how long before someone paps the window in.
when will the sad lot realise that it was not timmy that put them out of business but the people who they lavished with love and loyalty and in return made them the laughing stock of the football world. they will always live in a world where the truth slaps them in the face but its always timmys fault, they do not see, they cannot see, due to the blindess of their bigotry.
“Rangers go into the game as a Third Division side after financial problems led to them dropping out of the Scottish Premier League.”
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19463791
Thats news to me. I was under the impression they were in administration nearing liquidation.
It would be more accurate to say that :
“[The] Rangers go into the game as a Third Division side after [inheriting the SFA membership from last season’s Rangers, after] financial problems led to them dropping out of the Scottish Premier League [and existence as a football club].”
accies80(Harri159) says:
September 4, 2012 at 13:38
=========
Were those not that registrations had been signed before the end of the deadline but were not received after that by the SFA.
This case the registration took place after midnight as far as I am lead to believe.
smallteaser says:
September 4, 2012 at 14:00
If Paul McConville is around:-
Paul your article from July had Business Rates at £1.3 million
http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/07/27/rangers-fc-in-2012-2013-could-it-survive-financially/
D & P update in August has business rates for 6 months at £56,325
http://scotslawthoughts.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/rangers-progress-report-24-august-20121.pdf
Is this correct?????
————————————
Some more thoughts on the rates issue. Normal rates period is 10 payments starting in April so last years rates would probably not have been included. If they made one payment in April and then Chuck took over the responsibility then that would tally with Paul’s £1.3m figure. I am assuming that his figure is the rateable value and they would pay around 43% of that in actual rates so that would come to the £56k figure.
Hope this makes sense 😀
Captain haddock they have always been the rangers both separate and distinct clubs the one in admin was the rangers football club plc the new one sevco is now the rangers football club ltd
rab,
I sent the original email to the sfl on the 22nd Aug,and fowarded it again on the 3rd Sept;I received all of the replies from them today.It is late down under in oz,I will contact TSFM admin tomorrow and see if I can foward the emails to them
Captain Haddock says:
September 4, 2012 at 14:57
4 0 Rate This
The name change to “the” rangers was no doubt chosen so folk would just ignore the “the”, perpetuating the scam.
Still hoping the phoenix rules get them..
1 similar name,
2 same premises, same activity, same staff, same assets
3 shared director….CG
4 claiming the history
5 claiming to have purchased the old identity & history, even if the seller & the SFA couldn’t legally go along with it.
6 potentially same investors behind the scenes…? CW, SDM?
——————————————————————————————————–
aye Cptain!
I asked this yesterday, which agency would take action on such transgression of the rules? Criminal? Corporate? does someone have to bring it to the attention of ‘the authorities’?
HMRC?
“(on A History of Western Philosophy) I was sometimes accused by reviewers of writing not a true history but a biased account of the events that I arbitrarily chose to write of. But to my mind, a man without a bias cannot write interesting history – if, indeed, such man exists.”
― Bertrand Russell
Dear all,
I have received a reply to my FOI request – made of the Ministry of Justice.
Headline there is an expectation (from the MoJ) that the FTTT will publish its decision in September 2012.
In addition – the MoJ have signalled that neither of the parties (at this time) have sought to delay publication of the decision, nor have any of the parties sought in any way to prevent the decision from being published in the public domain.
Happy days.
Please find attached the enquiry and the response – personal information redacted.
Thank you for your email of 24 August, in which you asked for the following information from the Ministry of Justice (MoJ):
‘’I would be grateful if you could assist with the following.
I seek information held by the Ministry of Justice surrounding the First Tier Tax Tribunal (“the FTTT”) concerning HMRC v Murray International Holdings / Rangers Football Club Ltd. The appeal to which I refer is the appeal made by Murray International Holdings to taxes which HMRC believe are due as a result of the yet unproven (miss)use of EBTs concerning Rangers Football Club. I understand from media reports that this appeal to the FTTT commenced in 2011 and that this concluded in late 2011 / early 2012, and a decision is now awaited from the FTTT.
Specifically I would like information on:
• When did the FTTT with reference to the appeal cited herein conclude i.e. what was the last day that evidence was given to the judges before they retired to consider their decision;
• The average time taken from the commencement of a FTTT hearing to the publication of the decision;
• With reference to the appeal cited herein – to date, is the time taken to conclude this appeal to the FTTT (in terms of publishing a decision) over or under the average time taken for the FTTT to publish a decision?
• To date, have any of the parties involved been advised as to when a decision will be published?
• To date, what information is held as to when a decision, on this appeal may be published?
• Have any of the parties involved requested or sought in any way to prevent the publication of a decision on this appeal into the public domain;
For the avoidance of doubt, I am not seeking any information on the outcome of this decision. I seek to understand the mechanics of the decision making process and when might a decision be reached. There is a strong public interest in this case in terms of general interest and media speculation (which I accept has no bearing on Freedom of Information). However, given the reported taxes due to HMRC and the fact that HMRC had voted against the CVA put forward by the administrators of Rangers Football Club, there is a public interest in establishing when this matter may be concluded and if the decision from the FTTT will be made a matter of public record otherwise.
I believe that this request contains all of the necessary elements required of a valid request in terms of section 8 of the Freedom of Information Act 2000.
I request that all personal information provided by me herein, is only used for the purposes of managing my request.
Thank you for your time.’’
Your request has been handled under the Freedom of Information Act 2000 (FOIA).
I can confirm that the department holds the information that you have asked for, but unfortunately it is too expensive for us to provide it to you as it would exceed the cost limit under section 12 of the FOI Act.
The law allows us to decline to answer requests under FOIA when we estimate that it would cost us more than £600 to identify, locate, extract, and then provide the information that has been asked for. There are only certain activities that we can take into account when making this calculation, but you may be interested to know that the limit is equivalent to 3½ working days’ worth of work, calculated at £25 per hour.
In this instance to provide you with the information we would be required to examine each individual case file as no statistical data exists regarding the average time taken from the commencement of a FTTT hearing to the publication of the decision.
The estimated cost of providing the information which is available is well above the £600 cost limit imposed on Freedom of Information requests and unfortunately, due to the way the information is held, it is not possible to suggest ways you can refine your request to bring it within the cost limit.
You can find out more about Section 12(1) by reading the extract from the Act and some guidance points we consider when applying this exemption, attached at the end of this letter.
You can also find more information by reading the full text of the Act, available at http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2000/36/section/12 and further guidance http://www.justice.gov.uk/information-access-rights/foi-guidance-for-practitioners/exemptions-guidance
In order to assist you with your request I have attempted to address some of your questions below:
• When did the FTTT with reference to the appeal cited herein conclude i.e. what was the last day that evidence was given to the judges before they retired to consider their decision;
The hearing was in private and it is possible that the identities of certain witnesses could be anonymised in the decision notice. So no details of names of witnesses or dates of proceedings can be released at present. The reason dates are confidential is that disclosure could enable identification of who attended.
• To date, have any of the parties involved been advised as to when a decision will be published?
• To date, what information is held as to when a decision, on this appeal may be published?
The judge is very much aware of the public interest in this appeal and is doing all he can to enable the decision to be issued to parties as soon as is possible, the expectation is that the decision will be issued in September 2012.
• Have any of the parties involved requested or sought in any way to prevent the publication of a decision on this appeal into the public domain;
We are not aware that any of the parties involved have requested or sought in any way to prevent the publication of a decision on this appeal into the public domain.
I am sorry that on this occasion I have not been able to be of more assistance. You have the right to appeal our decision if you think it is incorrect. Details can be found in the ‘How to Appeal’ section attached at the end of this letter.