LNS is currently back in the headlines. It might therefore be a good time to try to set out a timeline describing correspondence we had with the representatives of the authorities over discrepancies and anomalies that appeared to have arisen. None of this is necessarily predicated upon the recent findings of the CoS in the Big Tax Case, but stands on its own.
Back in February 2014 The Scottish Football Monitor wrote to Harper MacLeod, the law firm that the SPL had engaged to gather evidence for the Lord Nimmo Smith (LNS) Commission investigating the full and proper registration of players paid by Rangers Football Club under Employee Benefit Trust (EBT) arrangements.
The initial set-up of the LNS Commission on 5th March 2012 by the SPL (View File) charged LNS with a look at EBTs from 1st July 1998 (when the SPL came into being).
In practice though, the Commission only looked at EBTs from 23 November 2000 onwards.
This change of date was based on the earliest side letter supplied by Duff and Phelps, although Harper MacLeod had requested ALL documentation from 1998 to March 2012 relating to ALL EBTs.
This prompted a series of letters to Harper MacLeod from The Scottish Football Monitor, although Harper MacLeod’s replies failed to address the issues raised.
The passage of time blurs memories but this archive is designed to remind readers of those blogs and correspondence, and the key points contained in them.
It also highlights the apparent inability or unwillingness on the part of the SPL and SFA to engage with us in any meaningful way.
NB: The SFA were informed of our correspondence by Harper MacLeod in October 2014.
It is extremely difficult to be concise in this situation. There are various strands of argument and details seemingly small, but vitally important – however the following is an attempt to make the material accessible and provides links to the relevant files in chronological order (links are in green).
- Item 1: The first SFM letter of 19th February 2014 to Harper MacLeod
- Item 2: The Annexes containing the documents apparently not supplied to Harper Macleod in the spring of 2012 along with other pertinent information about the testimony given to LNS during the Commission.
- Item 3: The SFM response of 29 March 2014 to Harper MacLeod’s reply to the first letter.
- Item 3.1: An SFM analysis of Harper MacLeod’s initial reply attached to response at 3.
- Item 4: An SFM blog of 5th September pointing out how the documents not supplied had a direct impact on the advice given to the SPL Board to accept The Decision of The LNS Commission.
- Item 5: The last letter of 4th October 2014 to Harper MacLeod answering points raised by them (see next) and thanking them for passing our correspondence to the SFA Compliance Officer who has so far deigned not to reply.
- Item 5.1: Harper MacLeod’s actual response to SFM 5th September letter.
- Item 6: An SFM Blog (Inc. a transcript of an interview between Alex Thomson and Stewart Regan).
- Item 6.1: Truncated version of above blog.
- Item 7: A clearer extract of key document from Item 2 Annexes
Having no locus to demand answers from the SPL or the SFA, all we can do is provide information – information that we believe presents a prima facie case that LNS was deeply flawed even before the latest developments in the Tax Case came to light. The challenge for us is this: what can we do about it?
It is clear from the meagre response we have received that the authorities are unwilling to engage with us, so it is fair to assume that further correspondence will be met with the same lack of response.
Are we merely a bunch of obsessed nut-jobs with our own take on the Flat Earth conspiracy? If that is the case, surely a few words of explanation to dispel our doubts would have had traction with the rest of the football public. Indeed the lack of any reply undoubtedly serves as confirmation of our belief that something may be seriously wrong.
The questions have been posed. The SFA appears to think that not answering them is a wise course of action. Given that anecdotal evidence presents a compelling case that the general football public are widely in agreement with us, are there any journalists out there who will take the time to look at what we have observed and what we seek clarification on?
There are undoubtedly inferences to be drawn from the evidence we have, and from the silence of the authorities.
The statement by Celtic on Friday 13th November is certainly a start in the process we wish to begin, but it only mentions the elephant in the room. It gives no clue about how it could be transported to another place.
In the first instance we at SFM seek only explanations, and despite the inferences mentioned earlier, we are still eager to be satisfied that rules were followed and justice done.
Is there really nobody in the MSM who has the courage to seek the answers we seek? I suspect not. What we do in the absence of that courage is important. We are at a crossroads. Either we give up on the game altogether and spend our Saturdays and Sundays doing other things – or we find a way to get these questions out of blog pages and into the mainstream.
We need an alliance of fans of all clubs to do that, and we will be looking to build that alliance. I would urge fans of all clubs to give this material to fan sites of their own clubs.
These are not just words. There can be no movement on this issue unless our reach is extended. SFM alone does not have the clout required to bring the clubs to the table or the MSM to fair and balanced reporting. We need that alliance of fans desperately. We don’t seek leadership of that alliance – but we are happy to provide it if required.
This is not a campaign to have Rangers punished. I understand that Rangers fans (since their club is in the middle of this mess) are reluctant to see us as anything other than a bunch of Rangers haters.
That is unequivocally not the case from the perspective of the moderators of this blog. SFM is committed to justice, and to the integrity of the sport we all love.
Justice is ON THE SIDE of Rangers and their fans – it does not conspire against them. A growing number of Rangers fans are coming round to our way of thinking and our tone must reflect that. This is not a Celtic or Hearts or Aberdeen or anybody else v Rangers issue. This is a fans v corrupt authorities issue.
We all deserve answers, and hopefully our alliance will compel each individual club to act in the interests of the fans .
The Record story is inaccurate.
If there was a legal obstacle to title stripping then it would be an official statement – and we would have heard Keith’s Klaxons at the time of the first LNS diet.
The ‘source’ is probably the same phantom figure who spoke to Roddy Forsyth the other day. This is nothing other than PR spin on behalf of Rangers.
A Legal Panther Division could be driven through LNS (which is still subject to appeal anyway), and they all know it. The clubs really want this to go away, but the over-riding priority is the cost of making it go away. Is it 1,000 season tickets? 5,000, 10,000?
Whatever, there is a price beyond which they will not pay. And don’t forget, nobody is demanding title stripping – we just want LNS reconvened in the light of evidence which contradicts that on which his findings were predicated.
Proper due process with no mid-management bureaucrats interpreting rules on the hoof.
Tam Cowan doing his bit to big up the celtic v rangers element, nobody else interested, quoting the Record’s ridiculous nonsense about ‘double jeopardy’, let’s all move on. Not a word about sports cheating, obviously happy to live with a corrupt game.
This is an excellent podcast over 2 hours that draws on in parts what latest blog is about (and mentions Res12) and goes into other areas, even wonders about the views of other supporters. A bit of a novelty there but it shows us how over reaching this issue is.
Enjoy
CELTIC UNDERGROUND NO265 – “17 YEARS OF ORGANISED CHEATING”
This week the Celtic Underground team discuss cheating – wholesale, industrial cheating with the clear intent to defraud Scottish football, masterminded by a man hailed as business hero, but who was nothing of the sort. Knighted for services to business David Murray stacked up debts of £1bn with a £20m shortfall in his group’s pension fund. And when this guy could no longer use his friends and contacts at HBoS to paper over the cracks of his business failures he then used the money of you and I to fund his ego.
Yes this podcast is about the illegal actions of David Murray and Rangers Football Club (In Liquidation). The podcast is long…but then again so was the period of time over which Rangers cheated. They died, but we now need to decide what we do with the legacy of that corpse.
Enjoy
Listen & download from the usual places;
Celtic Underground http://celticunderground.net/celtic-underground-no265-17-years-of-organised-cheating/
iTunes https://itunes.apple.com/gb/podcast/celticunderground-celtic-football/id305526084?mt=2
Soundcloud https://soundcloud.com/harrybradycu-2/celtic-underground-no265-17-years-of-organised-cheating
Spreaker http://www.spreaker.com/user/harrybradycu/celtic-underground-no265-17-years-of-org
Tris/BP
First let’s move on, then the threats and then trying to make out it is a Celtic vs Sevco issue; boring and pathetic.
I hear what you say about neither the administrators or the lamb munchers being willing to help but shouldn’t SFM be writing to the club’s and either sending them this blog or asking them to refer to it and the paperwork and ask for a joined up effort by all clubs to cleanse the game and put it back on a level playing field before it loses the people who matter – the fans. If everyone here tries the same might the message get home?
Athletics is the latest to be rocked and administrators arrested and under investigation. When will those at Hampden wake up and realize they need to do something and quivk or they could face similar consequences.
Perhaps sending the blog to MA might help as he certainly would not be afraid to use it. Might even strengthen his case against SFA if it shows them not to be fit for purpose – his team might follow the blog but who knows.
We are all fans wherever we are in the world and still want to follow a fair game. The chances of some of us returning to pay good money when the game is fixed are between slim and none.
Scottish football needs some strong administrators as well as a strong Arbroath and East Fife.
Tam and Stuart are live right now.
They started by asking the fans to email in and suggest how to bring the Rangers saga to an end and said in their views it has become an un-winnable argument/fight between the two Glasgow clubs.
They said they are bored by it all and believe all fans are likewise.
They just don’t get it that this is not something that will go away until the simple answer is reached.
And it is a simple answer.
It is about honest governance.
Honest governance that would benefit all the clubs and is something that has been sadly missing in our game for a long time.
Its a big issue Messrs Cosgrove and Cowan.
A big issue that won’t go away until the clubs realise they need to do something.
I have no wish to set squirrels amok but I believe certain media outlets are running a story that a magic manager has rejected the opportunity to talk to both Fulham and QPR about their vacancies. You cannot reject that which has never been offered either formally or informally.
QPR are most definitely not even looking in Scotland for a new manager, but have asked a Scottish individual if he would be interested. They want someone with stature in the game who can actually maximise what is actually a very strong youth set-up. Ideally, they want Brendan Rodgers. My sources at QPR are impeccable. The same sources say that Fulham are looking for someone who has excellent knowledge of European and/or international football as they are aiming to develop a moneyball system bringing promising international talent to London.
And if any churnalist wants a laugh they should ask Marina Granovskaia what she said to Mr King the other week.
David McCarthy Daily Record
see the date above (20011)
Sorry just failed your journalists exam 0 out of 100.
Failing to check facts.
Double Jeopardy (Scotland) Act 2011
Exceptions to rule against double jeopardy
1. 2.Tainted acquittals
2. 3.Admission made or becoming known after acquittal
3. 4.New evidence
David do you not read any newspapers?
The learned lords have already stated their decision supersedes LNS. This is a stated legal
position. To my mind LNS has already been re-visited. LNS has been over-ruled in law. It is defunct.
Tris is right to describe where we are now as a crossroads. An appeal process may come into play, but I believe that will be an episode of can kicking, and it will eventually prove to be unsuccessful. Whether it be the 2nd December or at a later date, we must be ready to act. Our clubs must be ready to act.
If you haven’t already let your views be known to your club please do so. There is no need for your club to incur expensive legal bills. If anybody calls anybody out, then Celtic FC, I believe, have placed themselves front and centre. A word for word reiteration of Celtic FC’s statement will suffice for now. This is a time for unity off the field.
A simple publicly stated position from your club is all that is required for now. Then support your club, and your club will support you. They are your voice, so get out there and fecking shout !.
Subject to appeal, a sell out Saturday immediately after the process ends. to show what it can be like. If your club remains mute, then the following week, show them what it will be like. There is no need to hurt our own clubs, but if they are happy to lie down and be kicked…….?
We will get the game we deserve.
Excellent summation. I don’t think that MSM lacks courage per se , more that there is an agreed agenda for extricating Scottish football from morass that the demise of RFC(IL) has led us into . Back to the future, as someone posted , with a “big two” – good against evil depending on your standpoint . The diddy teams go back to being footnotes . Also an act of self-preservation – I don’t know how many newspapers people would buy if it was for news content .If the clubs acquiesce to this view, that what is being done is for the greater good ,then the competition dies. CFC have made a start . Up to the other clubs, mine included, to state their position . Apologies for going OT last night .
Besides which, since LNS wasn’t a legal proceeding, double jeopardy would not exist anyway
Honest question. Has it ever Been pointed out to LNS that he was duped? Unless he was totally complicit he was duped. Duped by D&P withholding evidence. Duped by the SPL knowing this and/or altering the dates for which the commission had a remit and Duped by Bryson!
Paddy Malarkey
‘Apologies for going OT last night’.If you are referring to the TDs you received the apologies should come from those who gave the TDs.
scottc 14th November 2015 at 1:05 pm
Thanks scottc, will be adding a bit more on that later.
The EBTs are an irrelevance.
The tax avoidance is an irrelevance.
Sporting advantage is an irrelevance.
It’s all just noise and distraction.
Rangers have been found guilty of cheating by failing to tell the football authorities about all of a players wages.
This means that the player was improperly registered.
Given that Rangers knew about the side letters before at least some of the players were registered, then their registration has to be considered invalid right from the start. They should never have played football in Scotland.
The penalty for playing an improperly registered player is loss of that game with a notional 3-0 scoreline.
All anyone is asking for is that penalty to be applied.
It would be for anyone else.
From “On Fields of Green”
http://www.onfieldsofgreen.com/a-very-scottish-scandal-how-rangers-almost-wrecked-scottish-football-part-one/
helpmaboab 14th November 2015 at 1:40 pm #
Thanks, appreciate that .
John Clark 14th November 2015 at 12:16 pm #Tam Cowan doing his bit to big up the celtic v rangers element, nobody else interested, quoting the Record’s ridiculous nonsense about ‘double jeopardy’, let’s all move on. Not a word about sports cheating, obviously happy to live with a corrupt game.
===============================
Tam Cowan had the audacity to suggest a reincarnation of the late Jim Farry would sort it out. With that statement he does not deserve to have any of his views taken seriously. An utterly disgraceful statement to make in my view, given Farry’s shameful part in the history in Scottish football governance.
woodstein 14th November 2015 at 1:52 pm #
(previous post)
https://johnjamessite.wordpress.com/2015/11/14/william-austin-nimmo-smith/
Beaten to it.
It’s even easier for cups, you just get thrown out of the competition, and receive a fine..
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/15672375
Contract error costs Spartans Scottish Cup place
Spartans have been thrown out of the Scottish Cup for fielding an ineligible player in their 2-0 win over Culter.
Striker Keith McLeod signed a new contract in the summer but it was dated only once and the Scottish Football Association want it to be signed twice.
Spartans chairman Craig Graham said the club were “disappointed” by the ruling, adding: “We wish Culter well against Partick Thistle [in round three].”
Spartans have also received a £4,000 fine suspended for 12 months.
That’s always been Cowans downfall,he can’t differentiate fact from fiction and his attempt at humour falls embarrassingly flat on its face when he ridicules facts,unfortunately for Cosgrove he gets caught in the net at times,he is better on his own.
paddy malarkey 14th November 2015 at 1:02 pm #
==========================================
More clubs speaking out would be excellent. The whole of Scottish football is affected, not just Celtic. Perhaps Dave King wants to make it Celtic v Rangers. If it is left at that then history tells me the authorities have already decided the winner. If a few other clubs speak out it will really help.
In the past week I’ve managed to speak to fans of Hibs, Aberdeen, Motherwell and Kilmarnock. None of them want this to go away as the media keep suggesting they do.
My belief is that LNS was afforded the courtesy of being informed that he was going to be “duped” and was happy to play his part.
His silence since, when I think he could have by now realised that he had been misled, is also telling.
What is open to further speculation is why someone, with a career in the Justice business,had allowed himself to be used in this manner…..or am I being naive?
ThomTheThim 14th November 2015 at 2:51 pm
——————————————————————
I disagree, I think he was manipulated. Though that is just my opinion of course.
I think it came to light that Rangers had been using these side letters. The football authorities realised that they had to do something about it, and they were not willing to impose the penalty they should have.
There was no need for anyone else to become involved they could simply have confirmed the side letters existed, confirmed they had not been informed about them and imposed the appropriate penalty. That would have been to either disqualify Rangers from the competition, or changing the scores to a 3-0 loss.
Instead they contrived a situation where they could find Rangers guilty (there wasn’t much option in that part) but impose a financial penalty, on a club currently being liquidated.
The way they did this was by setting up a separate inquiry, then they themselves supplying an “expert” witness who misled that inquiry causing it to impose the penalty it did.
Using someone like a retired Judge meant they could rely on him going on the evidence put before him, particularly the witness recognised as being the expert in the field. No-one was ever going to argue with Bryson, because what he said suited Rangers and he was the SFA’s own man.
A farce.
Homunculus 14th November 2015 at 3:12 pm
I’m with you on that Homunculus. As well as having the I.Q to intreperet complex legal situations, there is more to being appointed to the high court than that alone. An understanding of how the wind is blowing in politics, as well as in the hierarchy of the Gentlemen’s clubs with chesterfield suites and matching reading lamps is a must. A bit of savvy.
LNS may have been limited by the scope of the commission, but he was bright enough to include his caveats within his conclusions. He wouldn’t have if he thought that would be the end of the matter. The important part, as far as we are concerned, is that he did include them. Not to fill up paper space, but to face challenge, and criticism.
What happens if we walk away? A game will continue if enough people would follow it.
1/. What happens when a ruling, when another Spartans, hits the fan? Just go straight to the appeal on precedent?
2/. What happens when one club with bigger ambitions gets to a decision point – twist or bust? Well, why the hell not twist? In fact, is it not the fiduciary responsibility of their boards to get the best for their fans? Their clubs are, after all, immortal aren’t they?
3/. When either of the above shows signs of rearing it’s head, and the time served bonus paid administrative servants say “don’t worry, we’ll sort it” what should the clubs, and I’m sorry to personalise it, but particularly the diddies, and separately the non OF top tier clubs think?
answer me those questions and I will indeed move on!
Ps. If any more connected than I could get these questions to Stuart and tam much appreciated since I spent my whole lunchtime screaming it at the radio. Guess I won’t be going to that resteraunt again!
Re Cowan & Cosgrove today:
Cowan truly is a disgrace. To suggest that a corrupt jobsworth at the SFA needs to be re-incarnated to sort out other corrupt jobsworths in the same organisation is contemptible. Actually, it’s beneath contempt.
Cosgrove was correct that there needs to be clarification whether the respective CEOs lead their organisations, or merely follow the wishes of their member clubs. He was also correct when he said they were ‘feart’.
The big question today was, “How do we sort this out?”
It’s simple:
The SFA & SPFL should apply their rules without fear or favour.
Punish the guilty.
Be transparent whilst doing it.
Accept that there has been wrong-doing within the SFA, SPL,SFL & SPFL.
And finally: resign.
Homunculus 14th November 2015 at 3:12 pm #ThomTheThim 14th November 2015 at 2:51 pm
——————————————————————
Using someone like a retired Judge meant they could rely on him going on the evidence put before him, particularly the witness recognised as being the expert in the field. No-one was ever going to argue with Bryson, because what he said suited Rangers and he was the SFA’s own man
=====================
The Lawyer for the SPFL could have torn Bryson’s statement apart by simply pointing out it is in complete contradiction to every action the SFA had taken previously against other clubs. The fact he didn’t says much. Title stripping was never on the cards then, and I’m sure it is not on the cards in whatever dark room the authorities are currently hiding.
So, is the question, did he allow himself to be manipulated and/or, duped?
He doesn’t live in a bubble and he wasn’t adjudicating legally, so surely there would have been a moment when he said to himself, ” haw, hey, whit’s the score here”, or the Edinburgh equivalent!
@ ThomTheTim:
When I’ve a tricky task to carry out, I often ask friends & neighbours for advice on what to do.
Perhaps WNS did the same?
Homunculus 14th November 2015 at 3:12 pm
I totally agree on the authorities motivation for setting up the sham Inquiry, but I have doubts over NS’s part in it’s execution.
After going to the lengths that they did to have the Inquiry, they weren’t going to jeopardise it through an injection of “common sense” from the adjudicator, were they?
Cosgrove started off well and a couple of years ago was one of the few media figures to speak about what was actually happening.
It would now appear that his BBC salary was more important to him than his own integrity. Shame. I liked him and the show but it’s no longer for me. The Farry statement today was the last straw.
Our opposition have the mainstream media sewn up. How do we compete when even the national broadcaster is in on the cover up? The one we all pay for. It’s truly sickening.
It’s not even as if it’s complicated. Side contracts are not allowed. They had something like 53 which they hid from both the SFA and HMRC. They knew the would invalidate the player registration but they did it anyway and then got caught.
Look at Sion (and Legia) who played ineligible players and were booted out of the competition. What’s hard for our blue friends to understand here? My guess is that the media know how simple this is and are using the EBT’s as a huge squirrel.
Player registrations is what will get them that is why you never hear them mentioned.
With much additional material now in the public domain and with the recent CoS judgement in favour of HMRC very much in mind, has anyone ever written to or otherwise asked LNS for his views on the matter?
He must at the very least have some misgivings about reputational damage resulting from widespread allegations that he was ‘duped’.
I, for one, would be very interested to hear what he had to say.
One for SFM to pursue as a very interested party?
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
upthehoops 14th November 2015 at 3:44 pm
=======================================
Sorry but I’m going to have to be pedantic again.
This is not about “title stripping”, it is about applying the rules properly.
Rangers were found guilty, the proper punishment for the crime should have been applied. That is a specific result, for each game.
The term “title stripping” is simply an emotive term used to make the consequence (not punishment) sound as dramatic as possible.
I’ll disagree to an extent kid gloves.
I’ve said on here before that whilst its the registrations that should nail them (either RFC* for not doing them, and obstructing the enquiry into them, of the authorities for not pursuing them on that basis) the real damage is the financial impact it had on the rest of the clubs. That is irrecoverable.
Headline writers know that to constantly refer to title stripping will sell copy, narrow the arghuement (see what I did there!) and bring emotion into what is otherwise, apparently, a fairly simple black and white case. All are designed (since the editors aren’t capable of strategic thinking re sales) to provoke the Cowan response.
Why we shouldn’t isn’t a chip on my shoulder, isn’t obsession, isn’t lack of any compassion for the future of the game, it is contained in my three questions above.
ThomTheThim 14th November 2015 at 3:57 pm
====================================
It’s really just a matter of opinion. If other people think that he agreed to take part in a very high profile inquiry, which was supposed to be independent but that he had been told in advance what his ruling was going to be that’s fine. I fully respect people’s right to take that view.
I just happen to think differently.
I believe the authorities took the view that they could manipulate things sufficiently well so that he would arrive at the desired result.
Bearing in mind they had the safety net of the appeal, which no doubt would have been made and no doubt would have been successful.
Homunculus
I agree,not title stripping ,removing or call it what you want,applying the correct procedure ,implementing the 0-3 result as per the rule book is all that is required ,what happens after that ,well that’s for the authorities to decide,no more no less,simples.
Am I not right in thinking that LNS would refer to SPL guidelines to set the fine? Hence his only input was to consider ALL of the evidence PROVIDED, confirm the guilty verdict (as agreed with CG three months previously) check the appropriate punishment was levied (on a scale of £249,000 to £250,001, again as agreed with chuckles), pick up his cheque and to retire into the sun wondering (but let’s face it not being particularly bothered) why mr Harper was so insipid that day.
Duped? Can’t see it, in its strictest sense. Constricted? Tighter than a fifer’s wallet!
paddy malarkey 14th November 2015 at 2:14 pm #
From “On Fields of Green”http://www.onfieldsofgreen.com/a-very-scottish-scandal-how-rangers-almost-wrecked-scottish-football-part-one/
__________________________
If James is looking in, great blog, perhaps your best yet. Looking forward to part 2.
Thanks for the link Paddy
Kid Gloves 14th November 2015 at 4:03 pm #Cosgrove started off well and a couple of years ago was one of the few media figures to speak about what was actually happening.
It would now appear that his BBC salary was more important to him than his own integrity. Shame. I liked him and the show but it’s no longer for me. The Farry statement today was the last straw.
=======================================================
Couldn’t agree more! Something makes me want to like Stuart. His talk can be fascinating,
perceptive, informative and well researched. But things like the Farry stuff you mention are really ‘The turd in the punchbowl’ as they might say in polite society.
Homunculus,
definitely agree the the Commission was set up to gain the required outcome, but, really, aren’t they all?
whether in politics or, in this case, sport, the authors of the Commission, if they have a vested interest in the outcome, create the terms of reference and scope of the inquiry.
In my cynical view, whoever is chosen to head up the commission is chosen to steer the result accordingly.
Political expediency, direction of wind or any other reason, whereby one particular decision is preferred, is the deciding factor.
Having no legal status and no power to instigate criminal proceedings allows for that state of affairs.
Here, in Ireland, we have had a trail of Commissions of Inquiries as long as DK’s SARS charge sheet.
No one takes them seriously any more, precisely because that have no legal accountability.
Thank you Trisidium for the above blog. It is so blatantly obvious that LNS needs to be addressed again and that all I can say to smsm is ffs get a grip do your job even just one of you or retire the lot of you (as I cannot see them being sacked).
What are the smsm scared of? They know as much as we do about this fiasco concerning the Govan club (as they are internet savvy and bampots for not following up the leads). Are they scared of the truth or are they just scared that the truth will bring a real likelihood of Armageddon to the establishment club and it’s followers.
I hate the thought of IMO how corrupt they all are at the head of SFA, SPFL and smsm. The game cannot move on until the truth comes out and it is printed in the papers and openly spoke about on the radio and TV. The reporting by the smsm is not funny anymore, they now resort to it being a Celtic V Rangers issue. All clubs should issue a small statement like the one Celtic put out. Let smsm know this is the whole of Scottish Football that wants the truth (even though they know this anyway).
Mr Ashley is the SFA and DK’s worse nightmare as he will not back down and IMO is correct to take the actions he is doing and I fully back him. I back anyone who stands against our SFA, DK and our press (like Alex Thomson etc…). The story need to be known more outwith Scotland as I think it would be of interest to other football fans UK wide. This story is corrupt but even worse is the level of corruption to make it a none story, the oh it is time to draw a line now, it is getting boring now, lets move on, LNS verdict stands and now double jeopardy rubbish, it is a Celtic v them issue MA is damaging scottish football.
I am not bored
I do not want to draw a line
It is the biggest story in Scottish football history
LNS well look above at Trisidium blog
I will not move on
It is not a Celtic v them
MA damaging Scottish football really? The biggest damage is happening right now under your pens
I really do believe we are getting there with the truth and I think DK and the smsm ramblings of late prove it.
We are not going away.
It’s quite simple.
The enquiry into use of side letters with ebts that may have breached registration rules was compromised of itself and based on a premise that is not true including no question of dishonesty.
It needs setting aside to allow an enquiry looking at all the facts including evidence of intent and dishonesty to reach an honest conclusion depending on what is now known.
After the enquiry we can consider the consequences not prejudge them.
upthehoops 14th November 2015 at 3:44 pm # Homunculus 14th November 2015 at 3:12 pm #ThomTheThim 14th November 2015 at 2:51 pm——————————————————————
Using someone like a retired Judge meant they could rely on him going on the evidence put before him, particularly the witness recognised as being the expert in the field. No-one was ever going to argue with Bryson, because what he said suited Rangers and he was the SFA’s own man ===================== The Lawyer for the SPFL could have torn Bryson’s statement apart by simply pointing out it is in complete contradiction to every action the SFA had taken previously against other clubs. The fact he didn’t says much. Title stripping was never on the cards then, and I’m sure it is not on the cards in whatever dark room the authorities are currently hiding.
_________________________________
The first thing he should have asked was for documented examples (if they existed Bryson would undoubtedly have walked into the hearing with them under his arm) of previous cases where irregular registrations were overlooked then later corrected. The second question should have been for documented examples of such cases where the mis-registration had been deliberate.
My experience of such cross-examination might be limited to episodes of Perry Mason and similar court room dramas, but those questions do seem obvious, and merely as starters to cross-examining a defence that is based on what would appear to be lax (at best) administration practices.
I don’t think Lord Nimmo Smith will be losing much sleep over subsequent revelations. He would no doubt wriggle his way around any such accusations. After a lifetime in the legal profession? You bet he would.
I read much of the Court of Session judgement this morning from the COS website (my goodness, talk about long winded!)
I laughed when they got around to the First Tier Tribunal (apart from the dissenter Heidi Poon)and the UTT ( Lord Doherty). More or less said that they were so caught up with the structures of the EBTs and the minutiae of it all that they couldn’t see the wood for the trees – the EBTs were earnings and taxable. Common sense, self evident. Oops! The HMRC appeal should never have got as far as the COS in my opinion. For the same reason I would be ‘surprised’ (Celtic terminology) if it progressed to the Supreme Court.
As I said LNS or Lord Doherty won’t bat an eyelid when they are found to have ‘erred’. Happens every day in appellant courts throughout the land. Judges ruling against judges. They can live with it, it’s nothing personal just arguments in law.
Lest it get lost in the Move On propaganda war, readers should be clear that in June 2011 RFC lied to retain their licence to play in the CL.
In 2012 they failed to provide the paperwork to SPL lawyers that should also have been given to the SFA in 2011.
In 2011 the SFA were negligent at best complicit at worst.
But get this. In 2014 SFA were asked if they had had sight of the wee tax case bill in 2011 to which they said no papers in SFA files and more than a year later they have
a) stonewalled on confirming the above which is what enquirers were told in 2014 ie no bill submitted, but more seriously have failed as far as is known to raise the issue with the RFC/TRFC man who was at RFC in 2011 and sat on 3 out of 4 Liicencing Committee meetings and at TRFC in 2012 to find out why the same information kept from SPL lawyers in 2012 was kept from SFA in 2011.
Do the SFA realise that since 2014 they may be covering up a fraud they were part of in 2011 and is that why they continue to stonewall on answering a letter put to them by Celtic shareholders?
Move on? Not until the guilty are named or a valid explanation given for SFA inaction.
Allyjambo & upthehoops
It’s all so obvious isn’t it? Self evident even or common sense!
Except it was a stitch up at least on the part of those operating out of Hampden. As for LNS, as I mentioned last week he is at liberty to ask questions. Someone mentioned earlier he does not live in a bubble! Whether he was a part of it all, who knows, I would hate to think so.
jimbo 14th November 2015 at 5:25 pm
As you mention the possibility of a further appeal to the Supreme Court. I assume BDO would canvas the views of the Liquidation Committee with regards doing that.
One wonders whether the (by far) largest creditor is represented on that committee.
To be honest HMRC could really want it to go either way
1, If there is no appeal then the debt is finalised, however they only get a fraction of it paid. They also have precedent from the CoS.
2, If there is an appeal they get a ruling from the Supreme Court, you don’t get any higher than that. Though they may lose. Personally I think they would win but as we know these things can be weird.
It’s an interesting one.
I wish we would all stop referring to the “LNS” enquiry and get his name out there , probably a lot of people who dont come on here aint aware what LNS stands for . Its the rotten to the core Lord Nimmo Smith enquiry !
ThomTheThim 14th November 2015 at 3:50 pm #
‘…so surely there would have been a moment when he said to himself, ” haw, hey, whit’s the score here”, …’
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Followed immediately by a wave of the wand and “Hey, presto! That’s it fixed!”
Jimbo at 5.25pm. You say that judges don’t bat an eyelid when they are overruled by another judge. I refer you to Lord Carloway the senior judge on the CoS panel on the EBT appeal. He was the judge who sat on the first case and ruled on the transfer embargo. When Lord Glennie (junior to Carloway) overturned his decision, he wrote to the SFA that he no longer wanted to sit on any further SFA Judicial panels.
I would echo AJ’s commendation of James Doleman’s summary pt1 at 4.57. Superb background for the uninformed. If I could offer one comment, that part 5 regarding Farry, Smith & co just wanders slightly from the story at hand. Yes there is a separate story to be told and I appreciate they are bit part players (one especially!), but given your own warning re your standpoint at paragraph 1 just be wary of how that bit is presented. I mean that absolutely constructively and I, for one, can’t wait for parts 2,3 etc.
I’d even offer to proof read them for you!
ThomTheThim 14th November 2015 at 2:51 pm
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I think it came to light that Rangers had been using these side letters. The football authorities realised that they had to do something about it, and they were not willing to impose the penalty they should have.
There was no need for anyone else to become involved they could simply have confirmed the side letters existed, confirmed they had not been informed about them and imposed the appropriate penalty. That would have been to either disqualify Rangers from the competition, or changing the scores to a 3-0 loss.
Instead they contrived a situation where they could find Rangers guilty (there wasn’t much option in that part) but impose a financial penalty, on a club currently being liquidated.
The way they did this was by setting up a separate inquiry, then they themselves supplying an “expert” witness who misled that inquiry causing it to impose the penalty it did.
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That has been my view from the outset. A contrived “inquiry” set up by a regulatory body so that they could avoid the blame for any ensuing punishment. An “enquiry” that was deliberately and completely undermined by Bryson (who provided the legalese for his sophistry ?). This was the same Bryson who kept his job after the Cadette affair – hardly implies impartiality, does it ?
It was blatant deception by Rangers RIP. Pure & simple. But the football “authorities” still refused to apply the rules they were being paid to enforce. That is their raison d’etre – but to pass the buck to LNS is a dereliction of their duty. Nothing less. The clubs should also hang their heads in shame – it is appalling that only Celtic have made a statement to date. LNS should be thrown out and the case looked at afresh.
ekt1m,
I stand corrected, what you say is true. Perhaps Lord Carloway is a bit more thin skinned than most. Interesting that he was one of the judges who ruled against Murray group (including Rangers) last week
. Revenge!
Methilhill Stroller 14th November 2015 at 12:32 pm #Tris/BP…Perhaps sending the blog to MA might help as he certainly would not be afraid to use it. Might even strengthen his case against SFA if it shows them not to be fit for purpose – his team might follow the blog but who knows…
] but because it ‘can’ be a source of new, relevant info. which could be of use to his people wrt King / SFA.
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I’m guessing MS that Ashley’s people will already be aware of this blog.
Not because we have the bestest blog [mibbees ?
Ashley has probably got an excellent, established network for in/formal intelligence gathering to assist his decision-making.
Wouldn’t be surprised either if he has ‘unknown’ dirt on King, and maybe Regan or Doncaster. Who knows ?
But you would think that someone as successful – and as ruthless – would also be very methodical before letting slip expensive lawyers…
Just speculation of course.
Just as an aside you may well find Google has been wiped viz a viz the upcoming cases.
Several well kent occasions now gone. Just today.
To the archives bampots.
roddybhoy 14th November 2015 at 6:22 pm # I wish we would all stop referring to the “LNS” enquiry and get his name out there , probably a lot of people who dont come on here aint aware what LNS stands for . Its the rotten to the core Lord Nimmo Smith enquiry !
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He was only ever an “honorary” Law lord and as now retired is plain Wull NS.
I’m still in the he was duped gang.
It wont get a re run. What’s the point he’s over ruled.
What is to the point is their is an enquiry into the SFA SPL SPFL nonsense of fixing committees members numbers and so on and I do believe MA will sink that particular ship. And some.
jimbo 14th November 2015 at 7:32 pm
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Lord Carloway is the Lord Justice Clerk, the second-senior judge of the Supreme Courts of Scotland, sitting in the High Court of Justiciary and the Inner House of the Court of Session. Lord Justice Clerk is one of the Great Officers of State of Scotland. I don’t think Lord Gill has been replaced yet, if not Lord Carloway is actually the top man just now.
Lord Drummond Young is a judge of the Supreme Courts of Scotland and Chairman of the Scottish Law Commission.
Lord Menzies is a judge of the Supreme Courts of Scotland. He was appointed to the Outer House of the Court of Session in 2001, and the Inner House (Scotland’s main appellate court) in 2012.
I love the way an element of the press and the Rangers support talk about them as if they were three blokes just taking a common sense view of whether Rangers had avoided tens of millions in tax.
ThomTheThim 14th November 2015 at 5:06 pm #Homunculus,definitely agree the the Commission was set up to gain the required outcome, but, really, aren’t they all? ………
………………..
I’ve taken the view, right from the time that the Commission reported, that LNS was retained as a prominent and expensive lawyer to get the footballing authorities out of the hole they had dug themselves into. That was his commission and that’s what he delivered on. Job done!
Homunculus 14th November 2015 at 8:00 pm #jimbo 14th November 2015 at 7:32 pm
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I love the way an element of the press and the Rangers support talk about them as if they were three blokes just taking a common sense view of whether Rangers had avoided tens of millions in tax.
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Homunclus…is your middle name “Carlsberg” ?
Someone mentioned earlier (apologies I don’t remember exactly who) the possibility of crowdfunding a request for a Judicial Review of The Nimmo Smith inquiry and I had a mischievous thought!
If Big Mike is out to snare The SFA could we not approach him for a donation – i’m sure if he is determined to get them he may be open to another attack from a different angle.
Just a thought!!!!
Is the SFA compliance officer in hibernation? Compare the reaction of the FA in England regarding Jose Mourhino`s outbursts and the diatribe from Mr King, with that of the Hampden hermits.
If any other person involved in Scottish football had said anything remotely approaching the content of Mr King`s statement, that person would have been summoned to Hampden at road runner speed.
Homunculus,
When you are standing an arm’s length from one of these guys, in a box half the size of a coffin, you really appreciate who they are!
Was one of the aspects of the NS Commission that it was not to be adversarial?
Auldheid reminds us that it is likely actual fraud was involved IF deliberate misapplication of rules took place by SFA officers to financially benefit a club these officers were associated with.
i suspect I have been focussing on all this through the football rules perspective when there is a more serious aspect underlying possible shenanigans.
its no wonder the SFA are very quiet about the Res 12 issues. Resignations now will not save anyone if this does go all criminal law on their asses.
we need to keep the pressure on to get to the truth, although it wouldn’t be a surprise if someone owns up to protect themselves….so who’s first guys?
When TSFM was set up in 2012 to carry on the fan unity created under RTC there was a lively debate about what the new Blog should have been called
I was firmly in the camp of something along the lines of “Rooting out Corruption in the Scottish Football Governing Bodies” or similar
The alternate view was that there was a longer term need for a cross club forum where fans could address lots of relevant issues. We should therefore avoid being seen as a one issue website that would die when its goal was accomplished
IMO
With the benefit of hindsight I now regret that the title of the blog did not focus on corruption
It is by far the biggest single issue that faces Scottish football today
Smugas 14th November 2015 at 7:23 pm #
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I think you mean James Forrest.
Test
Homunculs,
“I love the way an element of the press and the Rangers support talk about them as if they were three blokes just taking a common sense view of whether Rangers had avoided tens of millions in tax.”
I don’t know the intentions or side swipes of the press nor Rangers fans in taking a derogative view of the 3 Law Lords opinions of ‘common sense’ & ‘self evident’. But from my own opinion, I took it as a put down to the FTT & UTT.
As far as I know Lord Gill retired a few months ago and the top job is still to be filled. So as far as it goes I think Lord Carloway is in effect top dog just now.
Tears of Joy
I’m only using this part of your post to ask the blog a question so it’s not directed at you.
“That would have been to either disqualify Rangers from the competition, or changing the scores to a 3-0 loss.”
It’s the latter part I’m asking about to help me keep my understanding correct. Where in the rules does it say 3 points will be deducted and does it give context? That is where is the relationship between that and an invalid player registration?
Has an assumption crept in that needs to be examined in terms of why a title might be voided.
Seeking sporting advantage by an unfair means on a grand scale would seem to be a reason to void especially with the side letter secrecy element and if an attempt was made to nullify that sporting advantage charge by making it a player registration process issue. If it were found player registrations were invalid from the outset would that mean they were automatically ineligible from the outset, which is my inherent thinking without checking the premise behind the points deduction.
It’s not something that would argue voiding is not appropriate it’s just getting the understanding right.
jimbo 14th November 2015 at 10:20 pm
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With regards the whole “common sense” debate. The law actually doesn’t have a particular issue with that as far as I am aware.
There is a classic in English law with regards “The man on the Clapham omnibus”. I take this from wiki
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“The man on the Clapham omnibus is a hypothetical reasonable person, used by the courts in English law where it is necessary to decide whether a party has acted as a reasonable person would — for example, in a civil action for negligence.
The man on the Clapham omnibus is a reasonably educated and intelligent but nondescript person, against whom the defendant’s conduct can be measured.
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In essence what happened in the CoS in my view was that three very senior Judges, including as you say the most senior one in post just now, basically said right let’s cut away all of this nonsense. Were the payments into the trusts taxable. They came up with the answer … yes.
We all knew that anyway, the big difference is these three men were in a position to confirm that there was no legal impediment to that “common sense” view.
So what we have is arguably as good a group of legal minds as you are going to get in this country coming up with the same answer as you and me. Which is nice.
This evening I have a bitter taste in my mouth.
The reason is that, after Celtic’s statement yesterday, I had hoped that some of our other clubs would have followed suite. The failure to display this broad front has allowed our media to set the agenda again by ensuring that this problem is now portrayed as a Celtic / ‘The Rangers’ issue. This will leave many fans of other clubs feeling excluded and looking in as the school bullies fight it out leaving them ambivalent about the outcome.
I’m left with the hope that enough fans of other clubs have already contacted their clubs otherwise this battle is lost. It really is as simple as that. The media have long ago hitched their wagon to this “same club, punished enough, move on” horse. It is utterly shameful; a despicable group of individuals with no spine, lacking in moral fibre, with absolutely no regard for truth never mind facts. May their industry wither and die as this is the exact opposite of a free press. It is cowardice and corruption on a grotesque scale. I used to believe that the term ‘Establishment Club’ was simply a figure of speech and that such a corrupt organisation could not be protected, not only by the sport’s governing bodies, but the legal system as well. I no longer believe that. Placemen within Hampden may as well move their offices to Ibrox as they do not serve the sport but one particular team.
That the SFA can survive this unchanged probably ensures more of what we have had to endure over the last fifteen years; one club allowed to behave as it wishes because now the people in power know there is nothing that the fans can do and that the other clubs are impotent. This organisation is a pitiful excuse for a governing body; unable to change because to do so would reveal such mal-administration it would make the eyes water. They have closed ranks to ensure there is no scrutiny of the many at best dubious, at worst corrupt, decisions taken over the last five years. Of course their stance is made all the easier by the so called media above. Easy bed fellows in a sleazy backstreet bedsit!
It may be Mike Ashley that brings some sanity to this catastrophe that has overtaken our sport or that Charles Green will win his case for costs. I will not hold my breath.
Telling the truth, showing integrity and honesty, these are traits we should cherish, as they belong to the better part of ourselves. For me, it is a real shame that these traits are now ridiculed and treated with contempt from no less than the so called guardians of our game.
I lived in England for many years before returning to Scotland and during that time i followed QPR home and away, to some of the lower league outposts. I loved it, the fans, the football away from the premiership, the game as it should be.
Now i am not saying that the English game is perfect, it has its problems like every other league. But i do find that the English FA, for all the criticism they get, do seem to do a decent job, considering the behemoth that is the Premier League and the monstrous egos that go with it.
So when i think of the SFA, and i see small minded men, hiding in darkened rooms, telling half truths, telling us nothing, and treating us, the fans, with such contempt, i cant help but feel that football here is approaching a critical juncture.
Unless there is a complete overhaul, a necessary change.
I sincerely hope that the events that are about to unfold expose everything that has happened, everything we believe has happened. Because if nothing changes, if the same men remain in place and the truth never emerges, then why would i put my hard earned money into Scottish football? It wouldnt make any sense.
I would be willingly contributing to a game that didnt value its spectators, or rather, valued one teams fans above all others. It wouldnt value me, as the fan of a team outside Glasgow.
A few years ago the fans of Scottish clubs rose up (almost) as one. They were ridiculed yes, but they made their point. Value our opinion or lose our money.
Im pretty sure another poster made a great point about all this. there might be no leverage at this time of year with no season tickets to sell by the clubs but….we remember.
I will remember how i was valued in the coming days and months by the SFA. Treat me with contempt and you can enjoy my absence.
(Sorry for the long post ☺!)
Auldhied,
I’m not sure what your point is. You know as well as I do that because an ineligible player played against Celtic last season the result was declared a 3 goal win to Celtic. Now that was European game so are you asking is their such a sanction domestically? I can’t think of anyone who knows the rules in Scotland better than you.
I totally get where you are coming from regarding LNS (you and others taught me!) Although it might be fun to talk about the illegality of EBTs – as I do- just to shame the likes of David Murray & Campbell Ogilvie, however it is serious in terms of loss of revenue to the treasury’s coffers.
But the crux of the matter for us are the side letters and the withholding of information and Bryson’s interpretation of the timing of the registration irregularities. Whether the EBTs were legal or not they should have been declared. (As if I need to tell you) This is where the real corruption lies as far as football is concerned.
An intriguing wee snippet from MR Clumpany
“Postscript: It couldn’t possibly be the case that several media outlets sent a lawyer along to the hearing to try and challenge reporting restrictions, could it? And having gone to that trouble and expense, and with their man being content with the restrictions, didn’t then bother covering the story at all?
No, that would be truly bizarre. And a waste of money in austere times.
#KeepOnClumping”
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So deliberate non reporting.
A new low.
Are folk Actually getting PAID to say nothing????
ianagain 14th November 2015 at 11:06 pm # An intriguing wee snippet from MR Clumpany“Postscript: It couldn’t possibly be the case that several media outlets sent a lawyer along to the hearing to try and challenge reporting restrictions, could it? And having gone to that trouble and expense, and with their man being content with the restrictions, didn’t then bother covering the story at all? No, that would be truly bizarre. And a waste of money in austere times. #KeepOnClumping”
——————————————————–So deliberate non reporting. A new low. Are folk Actually getting PAID to say nothing????
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I’d be surprised if there aren’t! There are, of course, some people at Ibrox, itself, who should be paid to say nothing!