LNS – A Summary

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LNS – A Summary

 

cropped-sfmSquare.pngLNS is currently back in the headlines. It might therefore be a good time to try to set out a timeline describing correspondence we had with the representatives of the authorities over discrepancies and anomalies that appeared to have arisen. None of this is necessarily predicated upon the recent findings of the CoS in the Big Tax Case, but stands on its own.

Back in February 2014 The Scottish Football Monitor wrote to Harper MacLeod, the law firm that the SPL had engaged to gather evidence for the Lord Nimmo Smith (LNS) Commission investigating the full and proper registration of players paid by Rangers Football Club under Employee Benefit Trust (EBT) arrangements.

The initial set-up of the LNS Commission on 5th March 2012 by the SPL (View File) charged LNS with a look at EBTs from 1st July 1998 (when the SPL came into being).

In practice though, the Commission only looked at EBTs from 23 November 2000 onwards.

This change of date was based on the earliest side letter supplied by Duff and Phelps, although Harper MacLeod had requested ALL documentation from 1998 to March 2012 relating to ALL EBTs.

This prompted a series of letters to Harper MacLeod from The Scottish Football Monitor, although Harper MacLeod’s replies failed to address the issues raised.

The passage of time blurs memories but this archive is designed to remind readers of those blogs and correspondence, and the key points contained in them.

It also highlights the apparent inability or unwillingness on the part of the SPL and SFA to engage with us in any meaningful way.

NB: The SFA were informed of our correspondence by Harper MacLeod in October 2014.

It is extremely difficult to be concise in this situation. There are various strands of argument and details seemingly small, but vitally important – however the following is an attempt to make the material accessible and provides links to the relevant files in chronological order (links are in green).

 

  • Item 1: The first SFM letter of 19th February 2014 to Harper MacLeod
  • Item 2The Annexes containing the documents apparently not supplied to Harper Macleod in the spring of 2012 along with other pertinent information about the testimony given to LNS during the Commission.
  • Item 3The SFM response of 29 March 2014 to Harper MacLeod’s reply to the first letter.
  • Item 3.1: An SFM analysis of Harper MacLeod’s initial reply attached to response at 3.
  • Item 4: An SFM blog of 5th September pointing out how the documents not supplied had a direct impact on the advice given to the SPL Board to accept The Decision of The LNS Commission.
  • Item 5: The last letter of 4th October 2014 to Harper MacLeod answering points raised by them (see next) and thanking them for passing our correspondence to the SFA Compliance Officer who has so far deigned not to reply.
  • Item 5.1Harper MacLeod’s actual response to SFM 5th September letter.
  • Item 6: An SFM Blog (Inc. a transcript of an interview between Alex Thomson and Stewart Regan).
  • Item 6.1: Truncated version of above blog.
  • Item 7: A clearer extract of key document from Item 2 Annexes

 

Having no locus to demand answers from the SPL or the SFA, all we can do is provide information – information that we believe presents a prima facie case that LNS was deeply flawed even before the latest developments in the Tax Case came to light. The challenge for us is this: what can we do about it?

It is clear from the meagre response we have received that the authorities are unwilling to engage with us, so it is fair to assume that further correspondence will be met with the same lack of response.

Are we merely a bunch of obsessed nut-jobs with our own take on the Flat Earth conspiracy? If that is the case, surely a few words of explanation to dispel our doubts would have had traction with the rest of the football public. Indeed the lack of any reply undoubtedly serves as confirmation of our belief that something may be seriously wrong.

The questions have been posed. The SFA appears to think that not answering them is a wise course of action. Given that anecdotal evidence presents a compelling case that the general football public are widely in agreement with us, are there any journalists out there who will take the time to look at what we have observed and what we seek clarification on?

There are undoubtedly inferences to be drawn from the evidence we have, and from the silence of the authorities.

The statement by Celtic on Friday 13th November is certainly a start in the process we wish to begin, but it only mentions the elephant in the room. It gives no clue about how it could be transported to another place.

In the first instance we at SFM seek only explanations, and despite the inferences mentioned earlier, we are still eager to be satisfied that rules were followed and justice done.

Is there really  nobody in the MSM who has the courage to seek the answers we seek? I suspect not. What we do in the absence of that courage is important. We are at a crossroads. Either we give up on the game altogether and spend our Saturdays and Sundays doing other things – or we find a way to get these questions out of blog pages and into the mainstream.

We need an alliance of fans of all clubs to do that, and we will be looking to build that alliance. I would urge fans of all clubs to give this material to fan sites of their own clubs.

These are not just words. There can be no movement on this issue unless our reach is extended. SFM alone does not have the clout required to bring the clubs to the table or the MSM to fair and balanced reporting. We need that alliance of fans desperately. We don’t seek leadership of that alliance – but we are happy to provide it if required.

This is not a campaign to have Rangers punished. I understand that Rangers fans (since their club is in the middle of this mess) are reluctant to see us as anything other than a bunch of Rangers haters.

That is unequivocally not the case from the perspective of the moderators of this blog. SFM is committed to justice, and to the integrity of the sport we all love.

Justice is ON THE SIDE of Rangers and their fans – it does not conspire against them. A growing number of Rangers fans are coming round to our way of thinking and our tone must reflect that. This is not a Celtic or  Hearts or Aberdeen or anybody else v Rangers issue. This is a fans v corrupt authorities issue.

We all deserve answers, and hopefully our alliance will compel each individual club to act in the interests of the fans .

 

 

 

 

 

About the author

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Trisidium administrator

Trisidium is a Dunblane businessman with a keen interest in Scottish Football. He is a Celtic fan, although the demands of modern-day parenting have seen him less at games and more as a taxi service for his kids.

2,349 Comments so far

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armchairsupporterPosted on7:05 am - Dec 15, 2015


John Clark 15th December 2015 at 12:12 am
Couldn’t agree more JC. This letter must be the precursor to insolvency and start again. I thought it was illegal to plan an insolvency for the purpose of shedding debt! 

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armchairsupporterPosted on7:08 am - Dec 15, 2015


upthehoops 15th December 2015 at 7:02 am #
Equally this might be the case.
This story has got very exciting this last wee while.

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y4rmyPosted on8:16 am - Dec 15, 2015


You’ll find no sympathy for Bolton among the other members of the football league, particularly their odious CEO Phil Gartside. This is a man who wanted a sealed two tier premiership with entry to it based on some vague notion of “size and finance threshold”. I wonder if he stills wants to apply the same criteria?
Bolton are the epitome of how you shouldn’t run a football club, proceeding unsustainably with colossal losses year after year funded by the largesse of a single individual who has now turned off the tap.
http://twohundredpercent.net/?p=2769

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roddybhoyPosted on8:21 am - Dec 15, 2015


as some have said before me about trying very very hard not to be negative about Kings “charm offensive” ………………..Its impossible until he first puts his hand up and SINCERELY apologises for his clubs wrongs …of which their are many many ..so Dave ..who are you kidding ?

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Carfins FinestPosted on8:53 am - Dec 15, 2015


So. Dave and TRFC are going to save Scottish Football from its pit of doom. Really Dave? 
I believe that this is a clear statement from Ibrox saying basically ‘Were Effed’. Please do not listen to all the rhetoric we spouted in the past about boycotts and getting even etc. That was all just banter. Speak to one of my minions and we can be pals and not bother about silly things like stripping titles. Just buy me lunch and discuss how much better off your club will be when my new creation, ‘Rangers the 3rd’ Takes to the field in the top division of Scottish Football and destroys the stranglehold the Celtic hold at the moment. Cake all round.
Another thought. Dave king is in the Country approx. 6 times per year. Usually for 1 or 2 days at a time. Gonna take a few years to sit down to lunch with all 41 club Chairpersons.

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jimboPosted on9:16 am - Dec 15, 2015


Quite a good article from Martin Hannan in ‘The National’ asking the type of questions towards DCK & MA that we might ask on here.  Although I don’t think he has actually asked the people concerned at least he has posted the questions in a public forum, The National however has a limited readership.

http://www.thenational.scot/sport/football-questions-that-need-answers-at-rangers.11206

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SmugasPosted on9:42 am - Dec 15, 2015


Dave Kings Diary:  Visitation 1

That funny little Stewart Milne lad came as ordered.  Have to say his choice of eatery was odd.  Murray Park no less.  Little b*gger didn’t eat a thing either and those Aldi sandwiches aren’t cheap.  Instead he just kept measuring stuff over and over!

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SmugasPosted on9:49 am - Dec 15, 2015


On a more serious note, the problem (one of, but its a biggie) re the other clubs is contained perfectly within that letter.

Everything within it is Rangers, rangers rangers with no effort to mask an otherwise blatant phoenix.  Now that’s all well and good and, as said many times on here, I completely understand it from his point of view, and especially from the general rangers support point of view.  But, to put it bluntly, Rangers as was attempted to put his lunch invitees out of business.  There is a risk they might do it again going on basic visual public symptoms on view whilst the invitees are being asked along in their capacity of custodians of genuinely solvent sustainable clubs.

as the bairns would say, Awkward! 

To think of a comparison, its like Tesco wiping out the high street of little shops, liquidating (not just going into administration, eh Richard, Keef et al) and then calling along all of the destitute unemployed shop keepers to their relaunch, as Tesco!

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SmugasPosted on10:27 am - Dec 15, 2015


Dave Kings Diary:  Visitation 2

Flippin eck, this is going badly.  I clearly requested the presence of the hearts chairman and he only went and sent some broad along instead.  Picky wifie as well.  I said “tea or coffee” and she asked was there a difference?  Of course there is.  Why does that matter?  Milk? says I.  “Oh” she says, “is it semi skimmed or skimmed which is kind of the same thing only with some important bits taken out and advertised as such or is it just some cheap imitation crap.”  What is her problem? So I gave her some Coffee-mate and hoped she wouldn’t notice.  I mean you can’t tell can you?  Biscuits says I?  They’re bestest kit kats I say.  And she’s off on one again, something about “so why are they in a Tesco super saver wrapper?”  You just can’t please some folk.  Oh, and that reminds me, the lassie in Tesco said something about the card being maxxed out.

Bad day.  

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DeldonPosted on10:48 am - Dec 15, 2015


Does anyone know of the supposed twitter rumor JJ is referring to https://johnjamessite.wordpress.com/2015/12/14/high-jinks-in-high-courts/#comments regarding ‘leaked’ information of BDO leave to apppeal? Scroll down to 11.19pm.

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jimboPosted on10:57 am - Dec 15, 2015


So many questions around this £5M loan.  Why on earth at the AGM did he go into so much detail?  He only made a stick to beat himself with.  All he needed to say was ‘we have decided that it is the right thing to do and the loan will be repaid ASAP’  That turnaround would have been a big enough story in itself.  But all the bluster surrounding it was not required.  1 hour to get the money together, then the later statement ‘it’s in the bank, just waiting on the lawyers transferring the funds’.

Either it was lies, in which case some of the other directors are complicit or someone reneged leaving them with a shortfall.  The failure of Res. 10 (?) might have had something to do with that.

Regarding all these soft loans, who in their right mind would provide these?  Usually people might offer soft, short term loans to tide a business through a lean time but where the medium to long term outlook is positive.  Convert the loan to shares even better, buy cheap now sell dear in the future.  But on the assumption that the finances at Ibrox are in a dreadful state surely these directors are fully aware.  Likewise they will be aware that the likelihood of an insolvency event is a very real possibility, then why?  I just don’t get it.  At least 3 of the directors are business men.  Do they know something that is evading everyone else.  It just doesn’t make sense.

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neepheid

neepheidPosted on11:03 am - Dec 15, 2015


Carfins Finest 15th December 2015 at 8:53 am # Another thought. Dave king is in the Country approx. 6 times per year. Usually for 1 or 2 days at a time. Gonna take a few years to sit down to lunch with all 41 club Chairpersons.
===============
I don’t think 41 lunches are in prospect. As I understand it from Phil’s piece, King’s “fine dining” invitation has only been issued to a select few of the “leading” SPFL clubs. Clearly the chairman of a footballing giant won’t be wasting his valuable UK time chewing the fat with people from any of the “diddy” clubs.
It would be fascinating to see a list of the clubs deemed “leading” enough to be worthy of an invitation. It would also be instructive to know who accepts and who declines their invitation.
Just like the sudden change of heart on repaying Ashley, this charm offensive (well, that’s what it’s supposed to be14) seems to originate in King’s meeting with the SPFL at Hampden on the eve of the AGM. All of this must be connected in some way, but I can’t work out how.
Has King told the SPFL that his club can’t complete the season, so the SPFL has told King to start playing nice with the rest of the clubs if he wants some sort of fix put in?
Maybe that’s the lesson the SPFL have drawn from the failed attempt to insert Sevco into the SPL in 2012, that there hadn’t been enough cosying up to the other clubs  in advance of the vote? If so, they are totally deluded. Any attempt at a fix this time will meet with even stiffer resistance than in 2012, in my view.

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SmugasPosted on11:22 am - Dec 15, 2015


It would certainly be consistent, if not particularly revealing, if the sole finding from the expensive SFA enquiry team tasked with “How could we do 2012 differently” was 1/  RFC* need to cosy up to other big clubs more in future.

And before you ask, don’t be silly.  As if there would have been an enquiry!!!

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Jingso.JimsiePosted on11:28 am - Dec 15, 2015


I’ve just been reading the ‘Dave’ letter.

I was instantly reminded of Alex Mooney’s frankly incredible piece in the Daily Record from the 18th of November, where he suggested that fences should be mended, we should seek consensus, let bygones be bygones etc. & Dave & Pete should (wait for it…) go for dinner & aid those discussions with a nice bottle of red!

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/alex-mooney-rangers-use-ebts-6852612

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Corrupt official

Corrupt officialPosted on11:37 am - Dec 15, 2015


This letter, addressed to nobody and everybody. Come on ! What’s it all about? Does he not have a phone book with every phone number in it, or are they not accepting his calls?….It’s just a dishonest letter from a dishonest man. 
  I would say it was deliberately leaked, and why they never just put it on their web-site is beyond me. Maybe because leaked info actually has more credibility than the stuff scribbled on there. 
   What’s next?…..Nobody got in touch, we tried our best but they clearly hate us……Gie’s a break FFS!

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redlichtiePosted on11:42 am - Dec 15, 2015


neepheid 15th December 2015 at 11:03 am # Maybe that’s the lesson the SPFL have drawn from the failed attempt to insert Sevco into the SPL in 2012, that there hadn’t been enough cosying up to the other clubs  in advance of the vote? If so, they are totally deluded. Any attempt at a fix this time will meet with even stiffer resistance than in 2012, in my view.
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Absolutely. I think that the ‘lamb dinner’ invites and attempt to re-secure the IP via a loan repayment to MA are clear signs that RIFC/TRFC have not got long to go.

Not only have they been trying to raise the £5M (plus penalties?) needed to pay off MA but we’ve still not heard about them finding the £2.5M needed “by way of debt or equity funding” by the end of the season to meet liabilities with “an initial tranche of funds…..required in December 2015”.

Those are big sums to raise for an established, profitable Scottish SME but for a “a loss making 2nd tier club without a credit line from a bank” it’s an even taller order. And probably with little, if any, security to offer too.

I would not be at all surprised if an insolvency event took place in the next two months. How they will manage to execute a pre-pack that keeps MA either onside or at bay puzzles and intrigues me though.

Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.

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jimboPosted on12:00 pm - Dec 15, 2015


I would be shocked if any of the invitees took up this offer of a one to one meeting. A better idea might be to get it all over in one sweep.  Invite all the 41 clubs, since this debacle effected all of Scottish football (I would imagine Rangers played lower division clubs in cup competitions during the EBT era) and have a Q & A session with Dave King.   Have a secret ballot at the end with one question ‘ are Rangers/ Sevco the same club’?
ps. I would also invite Spartans and Cove Rangers? to have their say on being overlooked for a place in Div. 3 when Rangers were liquidated.

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zerotolerance1903

zerotolerance1903Posted on12:04 pm - Dec 15, 2015


I would not be at all surprised if an insolvency event took place in the next two months. How they will manage to execute a pre-pack that keeps MA either onside or at bay puzzles and intrigues me though.

IMHO they can’t and this is the big difference between Rangers’ insolvency event and anything that might happen to Sevco.

How can Sevco possibly conclude a CVA, Pre-Pack or any other restructuring when the assets of the Company are subject of ongoing criminal proceedings and have the possibility of being found to be proceeds of crime?

IMHO there are two possibilities if administration occurs:
1. Administrators get the Company to a proper break even and sell whatever players they can to clear existing creditors, carry on trading in their current guide and limp on until court cases are resolved; or

2. Liquidation

The difference is that on liquidation of Sevco a Third Rangers would be hampered by the continuing court action rendering “doing a Sevco” all but impossible.

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joburgt1mPosted on12:07 pm - Dec 15, 2015


armchairsupporter 15th December 2015 at 7:05 am #John Clark 15th December 2015 at 12:12 amCouldn’t agree more JC. This letter must be the precursor to insolvency and start again. I thought it was illegal to plan an insolvency for the purpose of shedding debt! 
———————–
Question for the legal/financial guys.
At what point does planning for an insolvency and trading while insolvent overlap?
i know both of these scenarios are illegal but this is how the ibrox situation looks to me at the moment

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yourhavingalaugh

yourhavingalaughPosted on12:20 pm - Dec 15, 2015


Would Alex Mooney apologise to Peter Lawell for asking him to lower his class to dine with a man that lied at his clubs AGM and then got a QC to repeat the lie in a high court,yes Mr Mooney,the man has shown you up for what you are,a believer in moonbeams,we are nearly a month on from that AGM Mr Mooney can you ask Dave to show us the money,mend fences indeed,padlock the gates and build bigger fences more like.

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John ClarkPosted on1:03 pm - Dec 15, 2015


King’s disgustingly offensive ‘charm offensive’, following hard on the heels of his ‘courtesy visit’, should put us all on our guard.
He clearly was advised by the SPFL ‘representatives’ ( who exactly?-Doncaster? and who else of that rotten crew?) that it might be a good idea to start softening up the ‘ leading club chairmen’, in order to help the unprincipled, deceitful, Board in their continuing efforts to ensure that the impending death of TRFC will not interrupt the eternal life of ‘Rangers’ no matter if all professional, personal and  sporting integrity is lost.
It is not what King does that’s important .
Destruction of The Big Lie, perpetrated and perpetuated by despicably unsporting ‘governors’ of our Sport, is what matters.
The death or destruction of TRFC/RIFC, the conviction or acquittal, and the personal financial gains or losses, of any and all associated with the running of the Ibrox club might be a cause for cheer.But only incidentally.
Until the record books are amended to show that RFC(IL) have been
stripped of dishonourably won titles and honours,
and that TRFC is not, and never could have been RFC(IL),
and that the SFA has publicly apologised for its abandonment of all Integrity in its dealings to save ‘Rangers’,
the ugly word ‘corruption’  will be associated as much with Scottish Football Administration as it presently is with UEFA and FIFA.
The more so, if the ‘leading clubs’ are too blind or compromised to see that for themselves.

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FinlochPosted on1:07 pm - Dec 15, 2015


 I think Mr King’s wee letter as mentioned on Phil’s blog is probably one of the outcomes of his wee chinwag over his informal cuppa or two (milk no sugar) with that nice Mr Doncaster and some of Neil’s wee pals, who just happened to pop in, at Hampden a few days back.
All informal and friendly.
But not many chairmen get invited in to come in for a wee sit-down with Neil so don’t feel second best if you are a chairman who has never got an invite from Neil’s pa or even his pa’s pa.
I guess there may have even been a wee informal and cosy agenda to discuss after the small talk about the weather in Capetown at this time of year and how well the sauvignon blanc harvest went a few months ago.
I guess they both also knew and know some stuff that is best kept in Mr D’s office.
Stuff that didn’t even need to be talked about among friends.But stuff nevertheless that might be embarrassing if they fell out in the future.
But that won’t happen and in reality they agree that all they really need is to keep the Rangers supporters pounds flowing for the good of all other members and the game itself. 
Its almost philanthropic and we should all be grateful especially Celtic who need the competition from the blue team and not to forget the diddy clubs too who need as many blue pound notes as they can get and are truly grateful.
Maybe they even touched on the downside of his plans if his board’s resolution at the meeting might fail but I doubt for long because that would have needed a different kind of self-awareness and I believe David still hopes some other people (RRM) with sufficient money care enough to stop the inevitable difference between spend and revenue on the route back to the rightful place.
Some years ago I was a director in a business which from one angle could have been perceived as trading while insolvent and we restructured immediately to minimise the threat to our directors downstream. 
The position scared the proverbial out of us especially one non-exec who was at the time a director of a few plcs.
No legit professional like him wants to be a director in a company trading illegally and phrases like “Fiduciary Duties” start being talked about in every discussion.
We knew what had to be done and did it and the company regrouped at a lower non-loss making level.
A kind of “winter pruning” in Chauncey Gardener speak.

I personally can’t understand why anyone would risk being a director of this particular football entity because despite the revenues from its substantial and active fan base it has consistently outspent and relied on a constant weird and wonderful series of bale-outs.I still can’t believe all the money they raised has really been expelled needlessly against the proverbial wall and the onerous contracts Phil has alluded to are a forever handicap to its ambitions.

So future plans of the promised Championes-League land with massive Euro revenues are a continuation of the Moonbeams variety because all aspirations like that come with a need for increased spend levels.
Spend levels that our biggest club can’t even countenance and they are well run.

And that takes me back to Neil and his pals.
No matter what they want or hope for this is a problem that is not just going to go away.
There used to be a wonderful sales guru called, I think, Heinz Goldmann who advised everyone to prepare for two outcomes in any meeting or negotiation or positioning.
The first is what you’d you’d like on the kind of day it was your birthday, the sun was shining, everything was going for you and was so easy and nice.
(I think this is the kind of meeting Dave and Neil had)

But Mr Goldmann wise man that he was also advised to pre prepare what you would have to settle for if everything went wrong.
The kind of bad day like Friday 13th scenario when everything seems to go wrong and all you are trying to do is get out in one piece.
The kind of nuclear planning where you have to be honest with yourself and others or there is no way forward.

That is what I’d be advising both sides of the cosy wee chat over the Scottish Blend at Hampden just a few short days ago. 

 

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wottpiPosted on1:16 pm - Dec 15, 2015


jimbo 15th December 2015 at 10:57 am

As you rightly say in course of normal business ‘soft loans’ are used to tide things over with the prospect of better times just around the corner.

Of course the other situation is that someone who has started and owns their own business may be so emotionally attached that they cannot bear up to the obvious fact that it is time to call it a day as opposed to the prospect of loosing everything they have.

While the Parks of this world may be successful business men they have set themselves up as emotionally attached RRM as opposed to a dispassionate or well balanced football club owner/s who may  simply cut off funds or scale back when the figures show it is time to call it a day /take appropriate action.

As I said the other day you have to wonder what their legal and financial advisers are saying with regard to the apparent folly of passing money to a debt ridden, cash burning and court attending company hand over fist. Let alone getting into bed with someone like King.

The likes of Jim McColl and Brian Kennedy saw the writing on the wall. SDM saw the writing on the wall. Everyone and their uncle can see the writing on the wall.

The club from Ibrox have for a good number of years required additional funding from various sources to meet their ambitions. The fans pockets are only so deep and the number able to assist are far less than folks would have you believe. 

McColl walked away and used his skills and wealth at the Ferguson’s ship yards because he knew there was business around the corner.

King and the Three Bears are basing everything on Premiership and Euro glory and trying to convince fans that this is just around the corner.

Celtic are still going to be hard to catch in domestic competition and all the evidence of how Celtic have struggled this past two seasons shows how tough the Euro gig is.

Either face up to the reality of what the accounts books and the results around Scotland and Europe are telling you and scale back your ambitions to suit or call it quits.

Despite his desire to see off King, Ashley may still be the only hope  if he has some plan to dump Newcastle and trying to gain some progress in Europe where SD could get coverage.

Other than that I can’t see anyone else on the horizon being interested in pumping money into T’Rangers other than the fans.

Develop your own talent, look for the odd diamond in the rough and take it from there.

Either that or hope for some kind of Euro  franchise system where organisers will look favourably on a stadium with 40k plus fans attending on a regular basis!!

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jimboPosted on1:38 pm - Dec 15, 2015


Finloch, great post.  Regards the ‘winter pruning’ at Ibrox, I was always surprised that it was not severe enough to get them to at least ‘break even’.  I know there has been downsizing in staffing numbers (scouting dept for instance) and the wages to turnover ratio is pretty good.  But it has been nowhere near enough.  It’s quite incredible that they have hung on to the biggest millstone round their necks – Auchenhowie.  Why they thought that operation was crucial in the lower divisions is astounding.  It’s a luxury they can’t afford.  Before Murray opened it old Rangers managed without it.  Can only be pride and the fear of embarrassment if they took the right business decision.

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Barcabhoy

BarcabhoyPosted on2:21 pm - Dec 15, 2015


I don’t see Ashley as an owner of Rangers at any time . Even someone as impervious to criticism and hostility as he is would know that he wouldn’t be accepted as a Rangers owner without spending huge amounts on players. 
That would result in annual losses of > £20 Millon and it would be Ashley’s money not a banks. He also couldn’t recoup that by exposure in UEFA competition as UEFA don’t allow perimeter or Stadium advertising other than by official partners. When you add in the fact that the EPL gets huge coverage in foreign markets , then Ashley would lose much more exposure by selling Newcastle than he could ever gain by owning Rangers

File under “Never going to happen ”

Anyone who thinks that harmony amongst disparate shareholders will break out regardless of the outcome of upcoming court cases is flying a kite. The only way to be rid of Ashley is by buying him out of his contract and purchasing his Equity. That number is so large it’s a complete non starter.  The only obvious solution is , as David Low stated in the recent podcast, to make some kind of peace with Ashley, but that will be on his terms. That will quieten the noise , but will do nothing to put a team on the park to compete with Celtic. 
A really good manager should be able to see off Aberdeen & the others , but based on what I’ve seen so far Warburton isn’t that guy. In cricket terms he’s a flat track bully. Able to win comfortably against poor opposition in perfect playing conditions. That though isn’t Scotland in our playing season. 

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redlichtiePosted on3:08 pm - Dec 15, 2015


zerotolerance1903 15th December 2015 at 12:04 pm # …How can Sevco possibly conclude a CVA, Pre-Pack or any other restructuring when the assets of the Company are subject of ongoing criminal proceedings and have the possibility of being found to be proceeds of crime?
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ZT, I share your scepticism and have been wracking my limited brain to see if there is any way out of this mess.

The best I could come up with was as a first phase either paying off MA’s loan to regain control of the IP (looking less likely as things go on) or finding some accommodation with him which will probably mean the departure of DCK/PM.

Then, and this assists in a cash-strapped situation, only buy the business and minimal assets from the administrator but agree a rental deal on Ibrox and the car park with a purchase option on both for when everything has shaken out over ownership of Ibrox (and the car park if it is dragged into the ‘proceeds of crime’ scenario).

For all of this to happen needs widespread goodwill and there has to be a charm offensive in several directions.

I think we see the start of that at the moment. A telling indication may well be DCK announcing that for various reasons he is resigning and returning to SA to spend more time with his criminal convictions.

But who knows? I’ve long given up on thoughts of some masterplan behind all of this.

Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.

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wottpiPosted on3:19 pm - Dec 15, 2015


Barcabhoy 15th December 2015 at 2:21 pm

Tend to agree that Ashley is not interested in owning T’Rangers (he is there to pick the bones of what is left) so therefore no-one on the horizon other than the current board.

I’m not so sure a decent manager alone would be able to see of the likes of Aberdeen. A decent group of players is also required.

Hearts have brought in a good few players and over a game and a half looked well behind the pace v Aberdeen. That being said a solid core of the likes of Alexander, Patterson, Osturk, Baubin, Nicholson, Pallardo, Sow, Gomis, King, Walker have allowed for a smoothish transition and the newcomers to fit in.

A lot of clever buys would be required by T’Rangers if they are in the top flight next year and it would also depend on who was left to form the ‘core of a team’ given the potential for existing players to be out of contract and loan players to head back to their clubs either in January or at the end of the season.

Potential to depart January 2016 (7):Ball, Zelalem, Oduwa, (Loans) Law, Clark, McKay & Aird (Out of contract)Possibly departing July 2016 (3)Templeton, Shiels & Walsh (Out of contract)So by the end of season 2015/2016 the current squad of 23 could be slashed to just 13 players.

(Where is the money coming from for replacements if all were to go/not be offered new contracts)

From Saturday’s starting 11  the core (minus those named above) would be , Fotheringham, Tavernier, Keirnan, Wallace, Halliday, Holt, Waghorn, Miller with a bench of youngsters Wilson, Kelly, Hardie and Thompson.
Chuck in Danny Wilson for Ball in central defence and you have 9 players and a load of youngsters. Or in other words pretty much the same squad St Johnstone took care off in the League Cup.

Of course things might be harder for T’Rangers if Celtic decide to get a ‘really good manger’ as well.21

(Just joking, still think Delia should be given one more go at Europe with the proviso he sorts out the leaks at the back before next season)

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AuldheidPosted on3:22 pm - Dec 15, 2015


John Clark 1.03

You set out the conditions necessary to begin a process of moving on but how much better would the chances of that  be if those responsible for the crimes against Scottish football were to meet with each other rather than Chairman of other clubs to meet the conditions you set out?

An awakening moment, the first of 12 Steps towards recovery, for real recovery can only come internally before the benefits manifest themselves externally.
It’s not Club Chairmen DK and his fellow Directors need to meet its the RST, The Sons of Struth and their ilk to confirm what the rest of Scottish football believes to be so.
A self surrender of titles an acceptance that RFC and the traditions and thinking that killed them no longer work in modern day football and that any future the club of their allegiance has depends on an absolute rethink of who they are and their place in modern society.
The 12 Steps are difficult enough but made even more so when the basis on which they stand is surrender, but with encouragement who knows what miracles can happen?

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nawlitePosted on3:41 pm - Dec 15, 2015


Jimbo says – “….It’s quite incredible that they have hung on to the biggest millstone round their necks – Auchenhowie. Why they thought that operation was crucial in the lower divisions is astounding. It’s a luxury they can’t afford. Before Murray opened it old Rangers managed without it. Can only be pride and the fear of embarrassment if they took the right business decision.”
Nothing to do with pride or fear of embarrassment, Jimbo. You need to remember that the whole omnishambles or ‘fleecing methodology’ is based on the willingness of the gullible to believe in the big lie. It always had to be seen as Rangers, no matter what the haters said, so it was absolutely vital that they hold onto Murray Park, Ibrox etc. The old Rangers wouldn’t have let them go so new Rangers couldn’t be seen to either, because that might have made the gullible think “hang on a minute, ….”.
They were relying on blindness and still are.

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zerotolerance1903

zerotolerance1903Posted on3:43 pm - Dec 15, 2015


Barcabhoy 15th December 2015 at 2:21 pm ….. A really good manager should be able to see off Aberdeen & the others ,

Why?

It’s depressing when top contributors like yourself so easily you fall into assuming that there would be a quick return to the two-club narrative.

Ignoring any progress that Aberdeen have made (and continue to make), if Sevco manage to reach the SPL then they have a long way to go before they can have the same impact that Hearts have had this season.  They lack the players to compete in the Premier League and I would posit that the current side would be relegation fodder.

Notwithstanding that a large part of their squad might not be around next season promotion does not necessarily improve their finances sufficiently to dramatically change that situation.  A really good manager (that they can afford) might have them challenging for a top 6 spot.

I would further argue that Hibs are more likely to make an impact in the Premier League (even if promoted through play-offs) as they have done more over the last couple of years to bring through the younger players.

Going back to Aberdeen (and the rest).  Writing them off so easily disrespects the progress that they have made.  Aberdeen have a really good manager and have returned to profitability on the back of record turnover and directors writing off debt to make them debt free.  Despite an unfortunate run of half a dozen games Aberdeen are a much improved side and remain close to Celtic in the League.

Others such as Hearts and St Johnstone have similarly improved their operation and have become much more competitive.

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zerotolerance1903

zerotolerance1903Posted on3:49 pm - Dec 15, 2015


And to add to the above, if Sevco were to be promoted and struggled to be competitive, what then?

I am old enough to fondly remember the John Grieg (managerial) years.  Rangers support disappeared faster than snow off a dyke.  How does the spreadsheet look if the home support goes back down to 10k?

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SmugasPosted on4:11 pm - Dec 15, 2015


It also very much depends how those teams view taking on the rangers challenge.  I can’t help but feel that St Mirren decided in August that they weren’t going to beat gers and they weren’t going to beat hibs, so frankly what was the point?  Result – malaise.

the longer they stay down the harder the climb will be and hence the more expensive.  And that’s not factoring in that they have chosen, whilst staying down, to burn 10m per annum whilst doing it.

I believe this is where JJ is coming from when he says that it cannot continue, which of course then has implications for any insolvency event, planned or otherwise!

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StevieBC

StevieBCPosted on4:52 pm - Dec 15, 2015


neepheid 15th December 2015 at 11:03 am #…Has King told the SPFL that his club can’t complete the season, so the SPFL has told King to start playing nice with the rest of the clubs if he wants some sort of fix put in?…
==========================================
That seems like a believable reason for sending such a letter, [and assuming this letter is genuine].

But here’s another wacky suggestion: the SPFL could fund TRFC [or mibbees TRFC2].
Doncaster is there to maximise revenues for the SPFL.
Sporting integrity comes a distant second, as we have observed e.g. with TRFC and Doncaster’s efforts to lever them straight into the old SPL.
The SFA is a waste of space and will not uphold sporting integrity – especially if it is deemed detrimental to its pet club.
So, with time and money running out, and Ashley not going away…

Doncaster/SPFL wants to ensure that TRFC gets into the top league – and stay there for the benefit of SPFL revenue.
A bust TRFC is not helpful to the SPFL, [according to Doncaster anyway].
So, the SPFL could take a decision to ‘help out’ a fellow member – by exception of course – in the short-term, via some form of funding.

To get SPFL funding, King needs to start building bridges [and of better quality than the Forth Road Bridge 14] with other club chairmen.
The pitch is: help TRFC now, and ‘we’ can all benefit in the long run. We are talking about money, not sport.
Or mibbees, the SPFL could help fund a TRFC2 to enable the new, new club to try and ditch Ashley as well ?
[And as the SFA seems to have a bit of cash, maybe Regan will chip in too – for the ‘good of Scottish football’ of course ?]

The governing bodies could also ‘reassure’ Scottish football fans that they will have strict oversight of the club’s operations – just to help it get onto a stable financial footing.

Of course, conflicts of interest would be flagged up everywhere – but would the SPFL / SFA / the clubs care ?
Well, the SFA/SFL/SPL/SPFL and the 42 clubs didn’t seem to care that the “heavily conflicted, unable to do his job” SFA President Ogilvie not only remained in post – but was unbelievably re-elected – and unopposed !  

Crazy idea, but I just don’t understand why anyone else would want to put money into RIFC/TRFC now ?

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Barcabhoy

BarcabhoyPosted on4:53 pm - Dec 15, 2015


Let me clarify my comments regarding “seeing off Aberdeen and others”

i am am working on the assumption that Rangers in the SPL will have a player wage budget of at least double Aberdeen’s . In the event McInness had double the player wage bill of Warburton , I’d pretty much guarantee Aberdeen would finish above Rangers. Any competent manager should finish above a team with half their resources. 

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The Cat NR1

The Cat NR1Posted on4:55 pm - Dec 15, 2015


Jingso.Jimsie 15th December 2015 at 11:28 am #I’ve just been reading the ‘Dave’ letter.
I was instantly reminded of Alex Mooney’s frankly incredible piece in the Daily Record from the 18th of November, where he suggested that fences should be mended, we should seek consensus, let bygones be bygones etc. & Dave & Pete should (wait for it…) go for dinner & aid those discussions with a nice bottle of red!
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/alex-mooney-rangers-use-ebts-6852612
=================
I thought that we already had a consensus of 41 with one lone dissenting voice?
Are we looking at a 12 Angry Men scenario, where the 41 gradually come round to the lone voice’s PoV, and eventually all 42 are united behind the original lone voiced opinion?

12 Angry Men could be the SoS newsletter, but alas not, although Ed Begley’s character (Juror 10) seems strangely familiar.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0050083/?ref_=nv_sr_1 should aid the unfamiliar.

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Jingso.JimsiePosted on5:20 pm - Dec 15, 2015


The Cat NR1 15th December 2015 at 4:55 pm 
…I thought that we already had a consensus of 41 with one lone dissenting voice?…
======================================================

My inference was that ‘consensus with the position of no title stripping’ as held by RIFC/TRFC/Mooney. Apologies if it was not clear.

I’m not at all sure that the vote would be 41 to 1, either.

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jimboPosted on5:27 pm - Dec 15, 2015


stevieBC, your suggestions about a helping hand from Regan & Doncaster are not as outrageous as they might read at first glance.  Remember the panic over the TV deals in 2012?

From the BBC 31.07.2012:

” Five live Rangers fixtures in Division Three are included in the deal along with 30 from the top flight.
There had been fears that a TV deal might disappear as a result of Rangers dropping out of the SPL.
But no figures have yet been released about the value of the new deal.
The SPL had agreed a TV deal worth £80m over five years with Sky and fellow broadcaster ESPN before the old Rangers slipped towards liquidation.
And SPL chief executive Neil Doncaster and Scottish FA counterpart Stewart Regan had both warned of dire financial consequences should the new club not start life in Division One.”

If I remember correctly the revised deal included a deduction from the money clubs would normally have got to install gantries at lower division grounds to televise the club from Ibrox.  They will stop at nothing.  Unfortunately I think Peter Lawell accompanied Doncaster to London, to hold his hand in the negotiations against the mighty broadcasters.

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wottpiPosted on5:29 pm - Dec 15, 2015


FC Twente have been banned from European football for three years and fined €45,000. Will keep their license conditionally.
http://www.football-oranje.com/fc-twente-banned-from-europe-and-threatened-with-licence-removal/

The reason for the ban from European competitions is that an investigation learned that Twente had gained a UEFA Licence during the 2014/15 season wrongly and participated in the Europa league. The license was obtained with inaccurate and incomplete information.

Different circumstances to obtaining a Uefa License in 2011/2012 when tax liability was unclear but penalty would surely be the same be the same.

How is that Resolution 12 coming along??

PS How does that tie in with a Brysonesque interpretation of registrations??

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jimboPosted on5:35 pm - Dec 15, 2015


Just re-reading that quote from the BBC, isn’t it interesting the terminology of those heady days? :
“The old Rangers”, “the new club”  21   What happened?

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upthehoopsPosted on6:51 pm - Dec 15, 2015


Pretty disappointing to see some of these comments attributed to Stewart Milne. I think he needs to clarify what he means by Rangers being allowed to put what happened in the past behind them. Are we just supposed to ignore what has gone on? When I read stuff like this from the Chairman of one of our top clubs, who have themselves played by the rules, I seriously question why we should buy season tickets at all.  There is no place for cheats in our game unless they apologise for their behavior and accept a punishment to fit their crime. I’ll leave it to Stewart Milne to explain when that happened with Rangers.

=========================================
MILNE KEEN TO SEE RANGERS AND HIBS IN TOP DIVISION
STEWART Milne has admitted he would be happy to see Rangers back up in the Premiership next season.
The Dons chairman would also be delighted if Hibs gained promotion with the Gers from the Championship.
“We want to have all of the top clubs up in the Premiership,” said Milne.
“If Rangers come up with the right approach – and everyone allows them to put what happened in the past behind them – it would be good for the game.
“It would be fantastic if Hibs were able to get back up to the Premiership this season as well.
“When you look back over the last five to six years we have come through some horrendous times economically.
“Some of our top clubs not being in the top division for a substantial part of that period didn’t help.
“We are bringing less money into the game through media deals than we were back in 2007.
“The Sky contract was renegotiated when we lost Rangers because they were part of the deal.
“We could no longer fulfil our agreement with them so money was pulled back.
“What we have to do now is find ways of bringing more money back into the game.
“Having Rangers and Hibs back at the top level again would help.”https://www.eveningexpress.co.uk

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tony

tonyPosted on6:56 pm - Dec 15, 2015


upthehoops
is this the stewart DCK  was referring to ?

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upthehoopsPosted on7:09 pm - Dec 15, 2015


tony 15th December 2015 at 6:56 pm #upthehoopsis this the stewart DCK  was referring to ?
===========

I believe the Stewart being referred to by DCK in the alleged letter will be the Rangers CEO. 

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tony

tonyPosted on7:11 pm - Dec 15, 2015


upthehoops
wee bit of tongue and cheek 🙂

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Allyjambo

AllyjamboPosted on7:11 pm - Dec 15, 2015


upthehoops 15th December 2015 at 6:51 pm

I expect Mr Milne will get a better press tomorrow than Mrs Budge did last week! Grovelling doesn’t begin to describe it! Selling out his own supporters might! I bet Hibs supporters are so pleased that he thought to mention their club, you know the one, over 100 years old.

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zerotolerance1903

zerotolerance1903Posted on7:13 pm - Dec 15, 2015


A letter is currently being drafted to Mr Milne. 

I will be posting on AFC forums later to encourage other Aberdeen fans to do likewise. 

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tamjartmarquezPosted on7:26 pm - Dec 15, 2015


jimbo 15th December 2015 at 12:00 pm #I would be shocked if any of the invitees took up this offer of a one to one meeting. A better idea might be to get it all over in one sweep.  Invite all the 41 clubs, since this debacle effected all of Scottish football (I would imagine Rangers played lower division clubs in cup competitions during the EBT era) and have a Q & A session with Dave King.   Have a secret ballot at the end with one question ‘ are Rangers/ Sevco the same club’?ps. I would also invite Spartans and Cove Rangers? to have their say on being overlooked for a place in Div. 3 when Rangers were liquidated.
===
Yeah what does the (not so) new SFA president think about his club missing out in its chance of achieving its rightful place? over 6 months in post and not a peep fae thon bunker. 
 http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/33063657

but of course he’s  been in the bunker a while, and had been involved in the selection of the current national manager in winter 2012.
http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/scottish_fa_news.cfm?page=1848&newsID=10981

of more interest what exactly was his role that summer? his club suffered, but he is the new president just saying like.

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StevieBC

StevieBCPosted on7:28 pm - Dec 15, 2015


upthehoops 15th December 2015 at 6:51 pm #

“We want to have all of the top clubs up in the Premiership,” said Milne.
Milne with his business hat on: a perfectly reasonable statement to make.

...“If …everyone allows [TRFC] to put what happened in the past behind them – it would be good for the game.”…
Milne with his Scottish football leader/club chairman’s hat on: a dreadful statement to make.
i.e. all you paying customers just zip it about TRFC’s past misdemeanors – because I say so !

Enough to make you want to pull your hair out !  09

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paddy malarkey

paddy malarkeyPosted on7:30 pm - Dec 15, 2015


I think that a lot  of  the present manoeuvring is predicated  on the need to keep The Rangers afloat in the top tier next season and beyond (charm offensive, expanded league ,etc ) . I reckon that they will go up ,by hook or by crook, and have an insolvency event in the summer . Playing against the big boys with a 15 point starting deficit and an inexperienced and untested team would be daunting  , and would require a safety net . I wouldn’t be holding my breath awaiting CL riches, either .

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wottpiPosted on7:30 pm - Dec 15, 2015


If Stewart Milne is happy to set things in motion to up the potential for his club to be a bottom six cellar dweller like they were a few years back with average attendance in the low 9000s  then hell mend him.

I appreciate he may be looking out for the game in general and not putting his own club’s ambitions to the fore but we are talking about a basketcase here in the form of the club from Ibrox.

If it was a reconstructed club that had a secure financial footing and a long terms aim of playing an active role in Scottish football then yes let’s get that type of club on board.

However, it is a debt ridden, skint club headed up by a criminal who appears to be a stranger to the truth, including his own proclamations, from one week to the next.

What kind of dysfunctional organisation would be championing such a disreputable mob just because there may be a extra quid here or there to be had?

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yourhavingalaugh

yourhavingalaughPosted on7:33 pm - Dec 15, 2015


What next,Milne ponying up with the 500k that Dave is short on.

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mungoboyPosted on7:35 pm - Dec 15, 2015


While we’re all appalled by Mr Milne’s words, over in the Den the Govan Reconcilation Society are giving him the most dreadful abuse for his choice of words. 
Perhaps Mr Milne should have a look. 
It might just alter his perception if he comes up with the right approach. 

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rougvielovesthejunglePosted on7:39 pm - Dec 15, 2015


I was at an event in February of this year where Stewart Milne did a wee question and answer spot and he got on to talking about The Rangers and how we need them back in the Premier League. 

I actually had to challenge him on his opinion and asked him how he felt about all the cheating that had went on. His response? Much like the comments today “ye cannae live in the past, we’ve got to move on”. Stewart Milne is definitely, 100%, only interested in the finances of the game and subsequently has little regard for the integrity of the sport. That is why despite playing our best fitba in decades, I doubt I’ll ever go back to a premier league match at Pittodrie. 

In the same Q&A session, he also went on at length about the tv deal, comparing it to England (!) and how it was mediocre. He completely misses the point for me. Surely, surely,  fitba is about supporters attending matches, not sitting on their sofa, and for the record Stewart, haven’t our attendances been splendid since the demise of Rangers?!

Unfortunately I reckon Milne must spend too much time with the likes of Regan and Doncaster. Clearly he’s easily led just as he was in the 90’s when he was squandering all our money trying to keep up with the club that was involved in cheating the likes of which our game has never seen. And now he wants Dave King & co. back at the top table? I’m out!

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rougvielovesthejunglePosted on7:44 pm - Dec 15, 2015


wottpi at 7.30pm

You should have heard him at the event I was at in February. Utterly surreal.
Twas almost like he preferred it when the Dons had crowds of 7-8k per game and the EBT XI were strolling the league!

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neepheid

neepheidPosted on8:01 pm - Dec 15, 2015


rougvielovesthejungle 15th December 2015 at 7:39 pm #I was at an event in February of this year where Stewart Milne did a wee question and answer spot and he got on to talking about The Rangers and how we need them back in the Premier League. 
I actually had to challenge him on his opinion and asked him how he felt about all the cheating that had went on. His response? Much like the comments today “ye cannae live in the past, we’ve got to move on”. Stewart Milne is definitely, 100%, only interested in the finances of the game and subsequently has little regard for the integrity of the sport. That is why despite playing our best fitba in decades, I doubt I’ll ever go back to a premier league match at Pittodrie. 

A disgraceful statement from Milne in my opinion.There is a simple point that Milne and his fellow travellers don’t quite seem able to grasp- without a game that is free of cheating, there won’t be any money in the game. People aren’t complete mugs. Most of us got taken to the cleaners during the Murray years, watching a sport that was rigged, but thinking it was on the level.
Now just about anybody can take me for a mug once- I’m a trusting soul., so it isn’t difficult. But nobody has ever taken me for a mug twice. There is a world of difference between being trusting by nature, and being plain stupid.
If Milne and his like try to “fix things up” this time around  “for the good of the game” then anyone who pays money to watch Scottish football is being taken for a mug- again. I think that the crunch will come fairly soon, and at that point, Milne and the rest need to be hit in the only place that matters to them- in the pocket. It is completely pointless appealing to their sense of fair play or natural justice- they just don’t get it. Money is all they understand.
 ,

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StevieBC

StevieBCPosted on8:02 pm - Dec 15, 2015


Shirley to goodness, we have got to the point where it is blindingly obvious that any assistance given to TRFC is going to blow up in your face ?

It’s like having that relative / friend, who you know from painful, past experience that to provide any help / assistance will be a pointless, thankless and infuriating exercise…and typically end with you hissing that age old phrase; “Why did I even bother ??!!”

And in the absence of a stoopid, benevolent, mutli-millionaire, blue sugar daddy – TRFC is that perennial club basket case, which you know you just need to walk away from.

Change is good: so why do the Scottish football ‘leaders’ assume that the future of Scottish football is exclusively dependent on one particular club being in the top league…or being in any league for that matter ?

Seems almost irrational behaviour, and the numbers previously drafted by Internet Bampots, [wrt TRFC’s value to other clubs], are not exactly compelling.

IMO, most fans don’t trust the SFA/SPFL and can only speculate as to why the Hampden blazers continue – still – to bow down to the Govan club…
 [ :funnyhandshake:   14]   

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ianagain

ianagainPosted on8:21 pm - Dec 15, 2015


So within hours of Daves “love letter” to the SPL clubs we already have chink in the armour. This is a pre- arranged L5 scoopo.
Much akin to the Clumpany’s well observed shredding of  betting co. bollocks promotion in the SMSM with accompanying matching articles from “celeb” football personae.
However if it raises such ire akin to Rougvielovesthejungle’s its signalling another 2012.
I’m thinking SFA SPFL have something cooking and I’m not liking the aroma. Add DCK and I am definitely off of what’s about to be served.
Off to get in touch with Les and Alan B at the ‘Well. Somehow I think their reaction will be remarkably different.

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jimboPosted on8:38 pm - Dec 15, 2015


tamjartmarquez,  Sadly you are right to point out Alan McRae’s seeming subservience in 2012. If I was a representative of Cove Rangers, or Spartans, I would have been screaming blue murder from the highest rooftops, maybe he did but we just didn’t hear it!  Had a quick look and noticed he has been in the SFA since 1993.  Tells you everything.  A Hampden blazer means the world to some folk.

Ties in with all this nonsense from Stewart Milne.  Football directors certainly don’t think like ordinary fans, it’s the blazer thing again and inflated egos.

My wee post about an imaginary Q & A session between DCK and reps of the rest of Scottish football was pipe dream stuff.  I am absolutely under no illusion that clubs would have voted Sevco into as high a league as possible but the season ticket purchasers said otherwise. 

Funny S Milne mentions the TV deal after I posted about it earlier, wonder if he reads SFM? 21

One last thing about the renegotiating of the TV deal in 2012.  The new deal was announced in 2011, but when Sevco were admitted to ‘only’ Division 3 it was back to the table.  Why?   I seem to remember that it might have been the case that within the original contract there were to be 4 ‘old firm’ games televised!  When you think about it that is scandalous, almost like a franchise.  Our blazers are a joke.  07

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John ClarkPosted on8:40 pm - Dec 15, 2015


StevieBC 15th December 2015 at 7:28 pm #
‘…Enough to make you want to pull your hair out !  ‘
_______
Enough to make me want to pull his teeth out! May he never build or sell another house ( that’s his main line, I think?) and may the majority of Aberdeen FC supporters tell him to think again if he thinks they will support a rigged sport.
The man is either a fool, or unprincipled, or possibly both.

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DeldonPosted on8:44 pm - Dec 15, 2015


“If Rangers come up with the right approach – and everyone allows them to put what happened in the past behind them – it would be good for the game….”
I will reinforce what a majority of dandies feel about the Oldco/ newco Rangers.This comment from Milne needs to be clarified. What would be the “right approach” from Newco Rangers? Do they apologies on behalf of their, poor financial recklessness and tax avoiding/ evading and how their club single handedly destroyed the top tier football economy? Then TRFC agree they are indeed a new club and so relinquish past ‘glories’ to the tarnished former entity! THEN if they took it apon themselves to take more conditional approach and boot out their current criminal chairperson along with distancing themselves from their bigoted factional fan groups THEN we (as in the Scottish football scene) Can begin to move on- a bit like the approach to Germany after WW2- conditional steps to full partication in the game here e.g. gain trust then be allowed in committees, etc.
Milne needs to make a stronger statement based on aspects like this to assist and uphold the Celtic stance a few weeks back in response to the CoS tax appeal decision. Dons fans will let the club know their feelings more off the back of their visual banners at Hampden prior to the Hamilton game. It wouldn’t surprise me that they would perhaps boycott their own home games ( especially against a promoted TRFC) to make their point clear!
Milne’s wanting to “move on” should be challenged by AFC fan groups and the the fact that Milne was vehemently opposed to Newco restarting in the SPL back in 2012 needs to be reminded that AFC are just part of setting the conditions to a stepped process in any ‘forgiving’ to the TRFC situation based on what I’ve suggested. Only then would this be for “the good of the game.”

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Allyjambo

AllyjamboPosted on8:54 pm - Dec 15, 2015


Breaking news: The chairman of the club currently lying in second place in the Scottish Premiership has decided enough is enough and wants his club back in it’s rightful place – fighting it out for third spot.

Maybe Stewart Milne is just tired of carrying the responsibility for maintaining the 11/1 voting system in the top tier.

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coineanachantaighePosted on8:59 pm - Dec 15, 2015


rougvielovesthejungle 15th December 2015 at 7:44 pm #wottpi at 7.30pm

And yet since that club he’s trying to promote disappeared from the top division, Premier league clubs have managed to sort out much of their debt problem and put themselves on a more secure financial footing.  Why would we desperately need  a club which despite it’s large potential support (which mainly only helps that club itself) would add nothing to the league, considering the problems that it still has?

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GeordieJagPosted on9:15 pm - Dec 15, 2015


paddy malarkey 15th December 2015 at 7:30 pm #I think that a lot of the present manoeuvring is predicated on the need to keep The Rangers afloat in the top tier next season and beyond (charm offensive, expanded league ,etc ) . I reckon that they will go up ,by hook or by crook, and have an insolvency event in the summer . Playing against the big boys with a 15 point starting deficit and an inexperienced and untested team would be daunting , and would require a safety net.
————-
Paddy, would you perhaps have a 16 team league reconstruction-shaped safety net in mind?

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StevieBC

StevieBCPosted on9:25 pm - Dec 15, 2015


Extracted from ‘The Scotsman’, quoting Ibrox captain Lee Wallace;
“At Rangers we’re always full of respect for our opponents even if we don’t always get that back in return,” said the 26-year-old.
“We’re not going to cry about it because we know we are the best side and that we have the best manager and the best training ground in Murray Park.”…

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/teams/rangers/rangers-have-the-best-team-and-best-manager-1-3975658#ixzz3uQVx38tN ============================
Erm, mibbees he just answered his own observation about ‘Rangers’ not getting “respect back”…?
Somebody should tell him.  22

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wottpiPosted on9:46 pm - Dec 15, 2015


StevieBC 15th December 2015 at 9:25 pm
As pointed out elsewhere T’Rangers captain has had the same irony and consistency bypass as his chairman.
After all the talk of respecting opponents he comes out with this re the fourth in the table play-off contenders:-
“Equally, we’re aware of the fact that we can’t be dropping points at home TO TEAMS LIKE Morton…”
Good player and a nice lad but hasn’t made the best choices in the game. Getting L5 to write your pressers isn’ t that clever either!!

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StevieBC

StevieBCPosted on9:50 pm - Dec 15, 2015


…“Hugh was a very decent guy who believed in doing things properly. I’ll maintain this to my dying day – if Hugh Adam, and not David Murray, had been running Rangers, the club would never have ended up in the grubber.”…
==========
  10
Wow Just Wow !

…so who said that then ?
Interesting article, worth a look.
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/14146457.Super_agent_Bill_McMurdo_on_George_Best__Mo_Johnston_and_David_Murray/?ref=mr&lp=5

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zerotolerance1903

zerotolerance1903Posted on9:59 pm - Dec 15, 2015


Jingso.Jimsie 15th December 2015 at 7:15 pm
…and bang goes that 41 to 1 consensus mentioned by a poster above.
41 1 Rate ThisView Comment

although we do have a 41-1 consensus on your post 🙂

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Ballyargus

BallyargusPosted on9:59 pm - Dec 15, 2015


I must admit to having a certain sympathy with S Milne, as Paul Daniels used to say,”but not a lot”. He was probably being interviewed about Aberdeen when without any warning a loaded question regarding his thoughts on Rangers was put to him.He would not be given time to formulate a reasoned response, if he wanted to, but would have to say what was expected of him. To say anything else at that point would incur the wrath of the hordes and condemnation from the MSM.To my knowledge no senior person from any football club has criticised the Big Lie even from the clubs that were denied trophies and entry into European competitions.The best that PL of Celtic could come up with was a couple of jokes. Look at the way the resolution 12 question has been allowed to drag on, probably hoping disappears into the ether.I am of the opinion that despite the best efforts of sites like this one the Big Lie will become the “true” story over time unless another (can there be 2) liquidation takes place.

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Bryce CurdyPosted on10:02 pm - Dec 15, 2015


”We want to have all of the top clubs up in the Premiership,” said Milne.
No we don’t, Stewart.  We want the twelve clubs to be determined by the clearly stated rules and regulations of the SPFL competition.  As things stand this means the top 10 finishers in the Premiership, the Championship winners, and the winners of the play offs.  The exception to this should be any club which has an insolvency event and/or any club which disregards sporting integrity ie cheats.  It’s not difficult in the slightest.
I was disgusted (as a Celtic fan) at Dermond Desmond’s comments a couple of months ago, but firstly I’ve never regarded him as speaking on behalf of my club, secondly they did not go quite as far as Milne’s gibberish, and thirdly they did not coincidently follow on from the (alleged) letter from the lying criminal.
Ball in the court of Dons fans.  I’m optimistic they will react in the right way.

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Carfins FinestPosted on10:03 pm - Dec 15, 2015


Is Mr Milne going to be happy with a league that has no promotion or relegation because that’s exactly what he is recommending here. The timing of his statement is very,very  interesting. Some big news on the horizon methinks.

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campsiejoePosted on10:12 pm - Dec 15, 2015


Since 2012 just about every club has managed to sort itself out financially, and our game is in reasonably good health
Do Milne Doncaster & Regan really think that TRFC, if they get to the top league, will behave in a financially responsible way, because I don’t
Since their creation, TRFC have been the most financially irresponsible club in Scotland, and there is no way this particular leopard will change it’s spots  It will carry on spending money it doesn’t have, and they won’t give a damn, expecting everyone else to bend over backwards to accommodate their financial cock ups
If the rest of Scottish football and its legislators don’t get tough, the disaster of the old club will be repeated and hell mend them

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John ClarkPosted on10:37 pm - Dec 15, 2015


Auldheid 15th December 2015 at 3:22 pm
‘… how much better would the chances of that be if those responsible for the crimes against Scottish football were to meet with each other rather than Chairman of other clubs to meet the conditions you set out?…’
______
There is, of course, always room for the use of encouragement and support for  those trying to summon up the moral courage to own up to their faults, failings, crimes, as a step towards  contrition and repentance-and atonement.
Few would be happier than I if Dave King and his present Board, recognising the absurdity of the pretence that they are Continuity RFC(IL), took it upon themselves to square up to the task of educating and informing their thus far grossly ill-informed and ill-led supporter- base that they are, in fact and law and football regulations, supporters of a three-year old club which has absolutely NO title to call itself RFC ( meaning the RFC  of Craig Whyte, and , before him, SDM).
But -and I am conscious that I have said this often enough before- Dave King and his newish club were not the original problem, which was the ( possibly/probably known about , and probably aided by the 6th Floor) cheating by SDM——   Followed, of course, by the staggeringly blatant cheating and chicanery of the rule-makers in facilitating the creation of a new club and trying  to lie to us all that nothing had happened except a change of ownership from Craig Whyte to Charles Green and his crew, and that the RFC  of 1872 was still alive and well and enjoying full rights and entitlements to all the titles and trophies it ‘won’, including those won when fielding ineligible players.
It is for the Football Authorities to take the ‘first step’ and beg our pardon for their wrong-doing, and to promptly fix it by proper application of the rules of the SFA and the then SPL, without seeking the ‘permission’ or ‘agreement’ of those who run and support the otherwise ‘innocent’ newish club.
Then, and only then, will there be the possibility of ‘moving on’ and ‘reconciliation’. And merciful forgiveness!
When they do that, let TRFC Ltd live or die on the same basis as any other  ( a lot fewer now than there were!) financially struggling club.
Whether they live or die is as NOTHING compared to whether we have a clean sport with honest men of decency and integrity making sure that it is above all transparently clean.
In my opinion.

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ianagain

ianagainPosted on10:47 pm - Dec 15, 2015


”We want to have all of the top clubs up in the Premiership,” said Milne.

I must email that to all the Motherwell players.
Who decided who were the top clubs in the, (well its not the Premiership is it Stuart its the SPFL) but anyhow semantics.
Not us then is it. Went and beat the top cub (from the Ch league 1).
Doh. Must do better.
Apology upon apology.
I would perversely enjoy doing it again.07
Raging 06

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tony

tonyPosted on11:02 pm - Dec 15, 2015


John Clark 
This is how I feel about it ?

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campsiejoePosted on11:12 pm - Dec 15, 2015


ianagain at 10:47 pm

Quite right
We have the top teams in Scotland in the top league, and they are there on merit

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goosygoosyPosted on11:23 pm - Dec 15, 2015


What’s the best way to get fans enraged?
Pretend the game is all about money
Avoid using the integrity word
Tell them they don`t understand business
Tell them sporting integrity matters then ignore it 
Remind diddy teams they are diddies with no right to an opinion
Ignore sectarian behaviour by fans
Hide crucial decisions
Only employ people who think like the boss
…………………….
Or put another way
Patronise them in public
But
Treat them like mushrooms and dirt
 Behind closed doors
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Sound Familiar?
Yep
That was Scottish football in the summer of 2012
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Still sound familiar in Dec 2015?
Yep 
Why?
Because we didn`t root out corruption in 2012
Those corrupt officials are still there
But
The fans are still here and they have learned from 2012
These corrupt people change course when the fans revolt
 
So here’s a message for Hampden
 
Watch This Space

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