LNS is currently back in the headlines. It might therefore be a good time to try to set out a timeline describing correspondence we had with the representatives of the authorities over discrepancies and anomalies that appeared to have arisen. None of this is necessarily predicated upon the recent findings of the CoS in the Big Tax Case, but stands on its own.
Back in February 2014 The Scottish Football Monitor wrote to Harper MacLeod, the law firm that the SPL had engaged to gather evidence for the Lord Nimmo Smith (LNS) Commission investigating the full and proper registration of players paid by Rangers Football Club under Employee Benefit Trust (EBT) arrangements.
The initial set-up of the LNS Commission on 5th March 2012 by the SPL (View File) charged LNS with a look at EBTs from 1st July 1998 (when the SPL came into being).
In practice though, the Commission only looked at EBTs from 23 November 2000 onwards.
This change of date was based on the earliest side letter supplied by Duff and Phelps, although Harper MacLeod had requested ALL documentation from 1998 to March 2012 relating to ALL EBTs.
This prompted a series of letters to Harper MacLeod from The Scottish Football Monitor, although Harper MacLeod’s replies failed to address the issues raised.
The passage of time blurs memories but this archive is designed to remind readers of those blogs and correspondence, and the key points contained in them.
It also highlights the apparent inability or unwillingness on the part of the SPL and SFA to engage with us in any meaningful way.
NB: The SFA were informed of our correspondence by Harper MacLeod in October 2014.
It is extremely difficult to be concise in this situation. There are various strands of argument and details seemingly small, but vitally important – however the following is an attempt to make the material accessible and provides links to the relevant files in chronological order (links are in green).
- Item 1: The first SFM letter of 19th February 2014 to Harper MacLeod
- Item 2: The Annexes containing the documents apparently not supplied to Harper Macleod in the spring of 2012 along with other pertinent information about the testimony given to LNS during the Commission.
- Item 3: The SFM response of 29 March 2014 to Harper MacLeod’s reply to the first letter.
- Item 3.1: An SFM analysis of Harper MacLeod’s initial reply attached to response at 3.
- Item 4: An SFM blog of 5th September pointing out how the documents not supplied had a direct impact on the advice given to the SPL Board to accept The Decision of The LNS Commission.
- Item 5: The last letter of 4th October 2014 to Harper MacLeod answering points raised by them (see next) and thanking them for passing our correspondence to the SFA Compliance Officer who has so far deigned not to reply.
- Item 5.1: Harper MacLeod’s actual response to SFM 5th September letter.
- Item 6: An SFM Blog (Inc. a transcript of an interview between Alex Thomson and Stewart Regan).
- Item 6.1: Truncated version of above blog.
- Item 7: A clearer extract of key document from Item 2 Annexes
Having no locus to demand answers from the SPL or the SFA, all we can do is provide information – information that we believe presents a prima facie case that LNS was deeply flawed even before the latest developments in the Tax Case came to light. The challenge for us is this: what can we do about it?
It is clear from the meagre response we have received that the authorities are unwilling to engage with us, so it is fair to assume that further correspondence will be met with the same lack of response.
Are we merely a bunch of obsessed nut-jobs with our own take on the Flat Earth conspiracy? If that is the case, surely a few words of explanation to dispel our doubts would have had traction with the rest of the football public. Indeed the lack of any reply undoubtedly serves as confirmation of our belief that something may be seriously wrong.
The questions have been posed. The SFA appears to think that not answering them is a wise course of action. Given that anecdotal evidence presents a compelling case that the general football public are widely in agreement with us, are there any journalists out there who will take the time to look at what we have observed and what we seek clarification on?
There are undoubtedly inferences to be drawn from the evidence we have, and from the silence of the authorities.
The statement by Celtic on Friday 13th November is certainly a start in the process we wish to begin, but it only mentions the elephant in the room. It gives no clue about how it could be transported to another place.
In the first instance we at SFM seek only explanations, and despite the inferences mentioned earlier, we are still eager to be satisfied that rules were followed and justice done.
Is there really nobody in the MSM who has the courage to seek the answers we seek? I suspect not. What we do in the absence of that courage is important. We are at a crossroads. Either we give up on the game altogether and spend our Saturdays and Sundays doing other things – or we find a way to get these questions out of blog pages and into the mainstream.
We need an alliance of fans of all clubs to do that, and we will be looking to build that alliance. I would urge fans of all clubs to give this material to fan sites of their own clubs.
These are not just words. There can be no movement on this issue unless our reach is extended. SFM alone does not have the clout required to bring the clubs to the table or the MSM to fair and balanced reporting. We need that alliance of fans desperately. We don’t seek leadership of that alliance – but we are happy to provide it if required.
This is not a campaign to have Rangers punished. I understand that Rangers fans (since their club is in the middle of this mess) are reluctant to see us as anything other than a bunch of Rangers haters.
That is unequivocally not the case from the perspective of the moderators of this blog. SFM is committed to justice, and to the integrity of the sport we all love.
Justice is ON THE SIDE of Rangers and their fans – it does not conspire against them. A growing number of Rangers fans are coming round to our way of thinking and our tone must reflect that. This is not a Celtic or Hearts or Aberdeen or anybody else v Rangers issue. This is a fans v corrupt authorities issue.
We all deserve answers, and hopefully our alliance will compel each individual club to act in the interests of the fans .
Tangoed,
Since I suspect I know where you’re going with this, ignore the loan description and concentrate on this. If you receive money for playing football you declare it simples.
I don’t see the need as the Board appears fairly united. His son was already in place to look after his interests. It may just be that the personal or business reasons for him leaving have been resolved or concluded.
That’s an intriguing possibility, e.g. if it was to secure funding or avoid costs associated with court cases.
It’s also odd to do it just 12 days before the AGM.
Being pedantic and alluding to semantics mentioned earlier
Rangers (BDO) and TRFC (Sevco)accepted decision the latter accepting the fine as part of the football debtRangers and TRFC didn’t appeal.
and then additionally
TRFC have, surprise surprise, reneged on payment. YET ANOTHER REASON WHY THE COMMISSION COULD AND SHOULD BE REVISITED
BTW our new poster seems to have overdosed on a softdrink of the koolaid variety
easyJambo 15th November 2015 at 7:26 pm
jimbo 15th November 2015 at 7:18 pm # Interesting two Parks on the Board now. Is Dave King on the way out?
————————————————————————————-That’s an intriguing possibility, e.g. if it was to secure funding or avoid costs associated with court cases.
It’s also odd to do it just 12 days before the AGM.
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It’s a long shot, a wild guess,….. but could he have been “turned”? Is he an Ashley appointment?
Smugas 15th November 2015 at 7:21 pm #Tangoed,
Since I suspect I know where you’re going with this, ignore the loan description and concentrate on this. If you receive money for playing football you declare it simples.
=========================================
That includes third party payments, which is what the EBT payments were.
Alternatively does park #2 dilute the power of Ashley’s soon to be elected representatives?
CO absolutely no way an Ashley appointment unless its “Yes surrender” and that would have to be preceded by DCK presenting his own head on a pike to Ashley (only just metaphorically speaking)
Guys, I wonder what else you censor?
Really disappointed.
tykebhoy 15th November 2015 at 7:50 pm #CO absolutely no way an Ashley appointment unless its “Yes surrender”
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You may well be correct, but Park and King were much alluded to be at loggerheads on a fairly permanent basis. When I say Ashley appointment I meant more in a covert fashion than his contractual right to two on the board. He may produce a wee surprise with his voting percentage. Rug, feet, whoopsadaisy. I can see that amusing Uncle Mick.
I don’t really think Ashley wants to kill Sevco. He could have done so by now. He wants boardroom control back. What better way than a Trojan horse ushered in through the portcullis. He can promise much more than King…..Sorry I will re-phrase that…..He has the wherewithal to uphold his promises.
Homunculus 15th November 2015 at 4:48 pm #
Maybe we’ll have a Rangers Principle for future avoidance cases.
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“Rangers Principle”? Not a bad effort, but “Fox News” is still my favourite oxymoron.
See those prove your human questions when logging back on they could be dangerous. I just got one, 35 – blank = 52. I had to go for a glass of wine, sit down and have a worry. I’ve lost it I said to myself, believe me my memory is in bits. Then, after the wine, I thought they are getting really tricky now. Negative answers!
However it was ok when I looked closer at the screen it was actually 55 – 52. And the answer was of course 13. I got knocked back. But here I am second time lucky.
A lateral thought
Was it prescience that this blog named itself the Scottish Football Monitor way back in 2012?
And now finds itself hoping that MA finds a legal route to drive corruption out of the SFA?
Did some bright spark figure the blog would get to a point where
SFM stood for……………
Send For Mike
Bawsman, Take it on the chin friend, I’ve been knocked out of court on a couple of occasions. They are doing the same thankless jobs as referees (except most of the Refs. deserve what they get). They often see a bigger picture than we do. Hope you keep contributing. I for one enjoy your posts.
jimbo 15th November 2015 at 9:08 pm # See those prove your human questions when logging back on they could be dangerous. I just got one, 35 – blank = 52. I had to go for a glass of wine, sit down and have a worry. I’ve lost it I said to myself, believe me my memory is in bits. Then, after the wine, I thought they are getting really tricky now. Negative answers!
However it was ok when I looked closer at the screen it was actually 55 – 52. And the answer was of course 13. I got knocked back. But here I am second time lucky.
==========================
Jimbo
Been there with 1 – 13.
I actually torture the young ones in the office with stuff like what’s 1436 x 6 -135 and force them to do it without calculators. To a man and girl they fail.
I daren’t tell them TSFM mugs me every 7th go.
ianagain, I’m of an age when we tested on ‘mental ‘arithmetic’ and I was quite good at it. But that one you set your young colleagues was a step to far! That’s just cruel.
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I would be happy to see the fight against corruption in Scottish Football on several fronts including Mike Ashley if need be. As for the SFM, what else have you got? This is by far and away the best chance of fans on social media having a say. It has supporters of many clubs, has a sense of decorum, and some knowledgeable Blogs, Podcasts and comments. And, it is a site going forward. The aspect of Mike Ashley taking on the authorities is not a dereliction of duties by TSFM but big Mike can afford to go to the COS on two occasions. Good on him as far as that goes, we can expect everything and anything to be exposed at these hearings.
ianagain 15th November 2015 at 9:29 pm
‘..I daren’t tell them TSFM mugs me every 7th go..’
_______
‘Prove you’re human’ is the cry. I prove it every time the figures are higher than units by being time-barred as I try to scribble a wee sum on the kitchen table!
Some people call it arithmetic. I call it advanced maths!
scottc 15th November 2015 at 6.44pm
I note what the Companies House position is but if, as you put it, the SPL changed its name and consumed the SFA teams it begs the question why the SPFL website’s Rules section has the preamble:
“The Scottish Professional League was formed on June 27, 2015 when The Scottish Football League and The Scottish Premier League merged to create a single body to govern the 42 league clubs in Scotland.”
As I read that the SFL and the SPL both disappeared and they opted to use the former’s existing company. Who know? Maybe if it had been Heads instead of Tails they’d have used the SFL company.
Either way thirty clubs had the square root of jack to do with Lord Nimmo Smith and are not bound by anything emanating therefrom.
Tris, Got the Celtic shop AD up 1/4 of an hour ago.
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LUGOSI, It’s almost like the oldco/ newco debate!
The Rangers Priciple and even their lies are lies
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a fav was as they ‘ travelled’ through our DIV THREE , one night a trew blew , after watching them dragging a nine man brechin through their own hedge in scoring goodness knows how many, asked his fellow bears….. wow great theday.. has anyone in europe scored more goals than rangers…. one bear helpfully replied….. ” ach some austrian lot but their leagues *ish”…..
Back in October 29th JJ posited this:
“Five individuals will decide Rangers fate, namely Ashley, Green, Tyre, Park and Taylor.”
Maybe the lads correct.
I’ve visions of previous episodes involving King and buses.
This may well be his last.
The SPL – now called the SPFL – is a company. The SFL was an unincorporated association of members.
The alleged ‘merger’ was a takeover by any other name. The SFL simply ceased to exist.
It makes no difference how many football clubs hold shares in the SPL /SPFL as it is the company – which has legal personality- that is accountable for its decisions. That legal personality continues despite the new name and increased number of shareholders.
The SPFL is responsible for the actions (and inactions) of the SPL.
jimbo 15th November 2015 at 9:56 pm #
‘…I would be happy to see the fight against corruption in Scottish Football on several fronts including Mike Ashley if need be. ‘
_________
So would I.
I would hope that, once the deadline for submission of an Appeal against the Court of Session judgement has passed without an appeal being ‘lodged’, the very non-ethereal legal entity that is SFM will write to the Cabinet Secretary for Sport etc to ask whether she intends to look into the Res 12 issue, and into the circumstances under which the SFA appear to have made extraordinary arrangements to avoid having to expel RFC(IL), and allowing a brand new footballing entity to be considered as being a liquidated entity… and so on.
One way or another, public money has gone into the SFA.
And that gives me and you the right, the absolute right, to ask the Cabinet Secretary for Sport to address the concerns that we have that there was dirty work at the crossroads.
And not to be fobbed off with “that is a matter for the SFA”, or by an absolute ( read ‘guilty’) refusal to answer , as Eck did when asked to say just what the hell his ‘intervention’ on behalf of SDM’s team consisted of.
We are , I hope, no longer anonymous’ internet bampots’, but a respectable , legal entity, representative of a big chunk of Scottish football , and therefore of the electorate.
We do not want our Government to subsidise, directly or indirectly, a corrupt football administration.
And we are permitted to tell the Cabinet Secretary as much.
Even Putin’s government realises that sporting integrity is of absolute importance if there is to be any sport!
JC, there is not a word I disagree with there, but, we have a problem. Bringing politicians into it. I wouldn’t trust one of them no matter which party to do the right thing. all they care about are votes & expenses.
For all I bang on about the EBTs and the COS result it’s not the most important thing. I do it because of RTC – winner of the Orwell Prize in 2012, because of two failed appeals and the long wait we all had to be vindicated. I’m not going to let that go without comment in a hurry. If for nothing else we owe it to posters who are no longer with us in one way or another. From tomorrow I’m going to concentrate my mind (God help me) on LNS & Res. 12 which I believe is the best way forward. Res. 12 will ‘sweep’ a lot of our concerns into focus if taken up. And Celtic FC do not need to look like the bad guys. (But you already know that).
With reference to my post at 10.49 pm, and just for the avoidance of doubt, I know that it’s the non-disclosure to the football authorities ( when one or two people in those football authorities didn’t have to be told because they, allegedly, knew already!)of the payments made to players that is the breach of rules, not the legitimacy or otherwise of the tax dodging.
But I imagine that our Cabinet Secretary for Sport & etc ( or her more plebeian advisers) would get hung up on the EBT tax judgement.
John, I used to be a close friend (still am but never see her now) with a SMP – they think differently from us. You would probably have more chance of reaching agreement with a plebeian monkey than an MP. As for all things regarding Scottish Football …..”I was personally present to award the prizes at the such and such primary school under 8s team end of year trophies. I know what I’m talking about! Scottish Football is in my heart and souls”.
Jimbo,
I agree. I think that Park returning to the board may be bad news for King. Perhaps an accord with Ashley and T3Bs?
jimbo 15th November 2015 at 11:49 pm
‘…As for all things regarding Scottish Football …..”I was personally present to award the prizes at the such and such primary school “…..’
____
jimbo, your cynicism does you much credit!
Most of us know that most of our ‘representatives’ are forever calculating on the basis of only one principle-‘what will get me selected/elected/re-elected’.
We KNOW what they are like!
Every other principle is subordinate to the their personal desire.
But it is our bounden duty to make them sweat for everything they say and promise.
One careless, ill-calculated word from the Cabinet Secretary for Sport & etc could end her career. (Just as Eck showed himself to me to be suspect, and lost my respect).
And she’s got to think very carefully about where her political advantage lies.
In support of the Big Lie? or in blowing it apart?
easyJambo 14th November 2015 at 12:56 am #Auldheid 13th November 2015 at 11:13 pm #————————————————-I had already read your post on CQN after you asked Jim Spence on Twitter for his views.
You have suggested an independent inquiry, which I think would have widespread support, but the difficulty I see is if the authorities say no. What then?
There is a thread on JKB,….
******************
EJ , as a fellow Hearts man , it all went downhill after that. I don’t care if Anne Budge gets on with Peter Lawell. I don’t care if Hearts fans get on with Celtic fans. But I do care about the fact I have paid thousands of pounds (and I do mean thousands) since 1998 watching a rigged game in Scotland . I expect HMFC – Anne Budge or whomever – to come out and say we expect proper governance , which we have manifestly NOT had since 2011 .
I have bought shares in the Chris Robinson era, I bought shares to save us from Romanov. All to no avail. I will not persist with FoH if it means I continue to support a club whose very existence means nothing : because all that really matters is that Rangers survive. Anne better speak out : and soon. It is a disgrace that no one has said a word.
I’m done with a football establishment that allows Glasgow refs and Glasgow clubs in a competition run from Glasgow all reported on by a cowed Glasgow media.
Scotland is a banana republic in football terms.
tearsofjoy 16th November 2015 at 12:45 am #
Sorry, I could only give you one TU .
According to the back page of the Scottish Sun, half a dozen players are looking to take Rangers to a tribunal re the non payment of holiday pay at the end of last season.
Tearsofjoy,
I mentioned on here a couple of months ago, I think, I would love to see Anne Budge and Leann Dempster on the football authorities for two reasons, it gets rid of the old boy network which exits here. (and besides for that my last two ultimate bosses were women, who were brilliant – total respect – can’t say much about the environment, but they were up to the job in a macho setting.)
And then there is the off centre Glasgow aspect. Two women representing clubs outside Glasgow could bring a bit of balance and here I go again! ‘Common Sense’ (Hope that doesn’t sound condescending it’s certainly not meant)
On the subject of the holiday pay story highlighted by EJ, I’m sure that there are rules in place that impose strict sanctions on clubs in the event of non-payment of players.
As ever TRFC will say that the matter is in negotiation and that they are not obliged to make payments until the situation is resolved. However, I trust that the club will honour its obligations in the event that the case goes against them.
At this rate the legal bills are going to make the onerous contracts look like small change!
Jimbo
Against all the odds , we have two Scottish clubs being led by two women – and neither of them are from Glasgow or leading a Glasgow club. As such – they barely merit a mention – except when Anne Budge took a stance against the behaviour of Celtic fans and their dirty protest. That apart, they are not seen or portrayed as “major players” , even though they arguably lead the two biggest Scottish clubs outside of Glasgow.
And that is my main point. These are two clubs who are potentially going to be fan owned and I have to ask myself whether I am willing to wait for these figures to speak or to wait for a “fan owned” club to speak out for justice and proper governance.
I am really getting depressed at the whole football scene in Scotland. It couldn’t be more full of self interest and corruption if it tried.
Paddy
I accept your TU in good grace 🙂
The Scottish Sun article in full:
http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/sport/spl/rangers/6745226/Ex-Rangers-stars-sue-over-holiday-pay.html
RANGERS are heading for a tribunal in their bitter fight with former stars of last season over PFA Scotland-backed demands for HOLIDAY PAY.
SunSport revealed on July 2 that Ibrox chairman Dave King was facing a stunning showdown with up to half of the 12 players who were released by the club in the immediate aftermath of the play-off defeat to Motherwell.
Now after four months of failed attempts to reach an agreement, it’s emerged that the entrenched parties are now preparing for an employment tribunal hearing for a ruling, with a date for it due to be fixed soon.
Several of the original group of agitated ex-players have since backed off.
But we understand four remain totally committed in their determined battle for payments which, if successful, could amount to a combined bill for the Gers board of a hefty five-figure amount.
The contracts of the players in question ended on May 31, the same day as the two-legged showdown with Well ended in a 6-1 aggregate defeat.
They are convinced they are entitled due to a clause in last season’s Ibrox player contracts which read: “Holiday leave entitlement is 35 days per calendar year.
“Holiday leave shall be taken during the close season, or exceptionally at other times, but always on such dates as may be approved, in advance, by the club. In the event of employment for part of a year the entitlement shall be pro rated.”
The players — supported all the way by their union — were advised that because the only paid holiday time they are entitled to is during the close season then the abruptness of their release left Rangers owing them cash.
Meanwhile, bus tycoon Douglas Park has returned to the board, having stepped down in August to concentrate on business commitmnents.
===========================================================
I’m not up on UK employment law, but if those conditions were in an Australian employment contract, it would be an open and shut case in favour of the employee.
Your leave entitlements accrue over your period of employment. If you don’t take your leave entitlement during the period of employment or are unable to because your employer doesn’t agree to a convenient time, you are paid them out at termination.
Any different in UK?
melbournedee 16th November 2015 at 2:08 am #
I’m not up on UK employment law, but if those conditions were in an Australian employment contract, it would be an open and shut case in favour of the employee. Your leave entitlements accrue over your period of employment. If you don’t take your leave entitlement during the period of employment or are unable to because your employer doesn’t agree to a convenient time, you are paid them out at termination. Any different in UK?
==================================
I’d be very interested to hear what the ‘custom & practice’ has been in football in this particular area. Do players typically receive a lump sum holiday payment at season end?
I seem to remember years ago that players were apparently on no/low wages during the close season.
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
melbournedee 16th November 2015 at 2:08 am #
Now after four months of failed attempts to reach an agreement, it’s emerged that the entrenched parties are now preparing for an employment tribunal hearing for a ruling, with a date for it due to be fixed soon.
Several of the original group of agitated ex-players have since backed off.
===========================================================I’m not up on UK employment law, but if those conditions were in an Australian employment contract, it would be an open and shut case in favour of the employee. Your leave entitlements accrue over your period of employment. If you don’t take your leave entitlement during the period of employment or are unable to because your employer doesn’t agree to a convenient time, you are paid them out at termination. Any different in UK?
……………………………………………
No. It’s no different.
Incidentally, I wonder why a Murdoch mouthpiece would be so… er… mealy-mouthed… that they’d feel comfortable writing the sentence above the dotted line? “Agitated”? “Backed-off”? Value-laden journalese at its best.
Blogging is so much superior due to the participants’ impartiality and neutrality. For example…
I’d never suggest that absentee Boss Dave simply flogs one of his priceless wine bottles to finance a settlement.
I see the SPL squirrel has finally left its tree. I wondered how long that would take.
I see it has been blagged already.
Squirrel pie anyone?
Roger Mitchell, ex CEO of the SPL, has written a blog which backs up what he said on Sportsound last week.
Given that he was the SPL’s top man, his willingness focus on only two clubs to the detriment of all others is shameful (but not surprising).
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/hate-convenient-help-forget-how-uncompetitive-you-really-mitchell
Re holiday pay.
The SPFL must have a record of the players contracts as part of their registration process.
Therefore, given the precedent of dabbling in matters before a formal legal outcome has been reached who better that an SPFL commission to say whether or not there is a bona fide dispute or whether the skint club are ‘at it’ with regard to holding back cash owed.
Given the punishment of a transfer embargo given out to other teams for similar ‘non payment’ issues, the matter really needs to be resolved prior to the January window otherwise if T’Rangers war chest is opened wide we will just have a further call of the rules not being applied equally across the board.
The matter has clearly being going on since the end of last season. Yet we do not appear to have anyone in the SMSM questioning the SPFL for their position on the matter. Clearly given that the likes of Waghorn and Tavernier were signed mid July, after the issues was first raised in the press, the SPFL have not as yet issued a transfer embargo. Similarly they do not appear to have made any public statements on the matter.
Openness and Transparency anyone???
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Delivery of Contracts of Service
22. A Club must deliver the executed originals of all Contracts of Service andamendments and/or extensions to Contracts of Service and all other agreementsproviding for payment, other than for reimbursement of expenses actuallyincurred, between that Club and Player, to the Secretary, within fourteen days ofsuch Contract of Service or other agreement being entered into, amended and/or,as the case may be, extended.
Default in Player and Football Manager/Coaching Staff Remuneration
E17 Except in circumstances where there is a bona fide dispute as to liability forpayment by the Club, where the Club is entitled to deduct or otherwise withholdpayment of a sum otherwise due or where the Club takes, suffers or is subject to anInsolvency Event, any Club which shall fail to pay any sum due by it to a Playerunder and in terms of that Player’s Contract of Service and/or any sum due by itunder a contract of employment to any Official engaged in football managementand/or football coaching (a “Remuneration Default”) shall be in breach of theseRules.
E18 Any Club which suffers or is subject to a Remuneration Default shall within 2 daysof such default notify the Secretary in writing of any such default with details of theamount(s) and Player(s) and/or Official(s) concerned and if it fails to so notify theSecretary it shall be in breach of these Rules.
E19 Any Club which commits a Remuneration Default shall not, except with the consentof the Board, be entitled or permitted to Register any Professional Player with theLeague and the League shall not register such a Player until the Board is satisfiedthat such Remuneration Default shall no longer continue or subsist.
@easyJambo
Where do you start with that? No real respect for Scottish football, small clubs, fans, and especially fans that want fair play and record books corrected to reflect cheating. Seems he’s projected part of himself onto the rest of fans. A sad piece. I’d say Roger is coming from the school of howling gorillas rather than the reasoned argument of intelligence that he says he’s so fond of. Sad thing is he’s given air time to spout this garbage.
Aw naw, not a signing embargo – Warbs will be gutted!
Roger Mitchell-the true enemy within sport, with a twisted, perverted view of the nature of sport and an eagerness to defend cheating and cheaters.
That such an Alf Garnett of a man [ whose almost manic, illogical rants were brilliantly portrayed by the late Warren Mitchell] should ever had any influence on the governance of our game is scarcely credible.
That he should have been given air-time by BBC Radio Scotland is a further indication that that station shares his views.
A response on linkedin to Roger Mitchell’s squirrel
John Clark 16th November 2015 at 11:14 am
—————–
Certainly comes across that way. With his lack of respect for the entirely of Scottish clubs it really makes you wonder how he ever became a high heid yin. And he seems very eager to move on. How much did he know back then? Has he ever had an EBT?
I cannot recommend strongly enough that everyone, and in particular every club chairman, reads that Roger Mitchell blog.
For what its worth, which it isn’t, here’s my response.
1/ Good luck getting everything from support, UEFA endorsement and sponsorship for your two club league.
2/ Why should one of those clubs even bother given the parameters clearly set, thinking objectively of course?
3/ You do see the glaring contradiction in your own writing yes? The “real fan” pretence that justice was done and seen to be done, and yet somehow it hasn’t and apparently shouldn’t?
3/ Why the two faced-ness now. You revelled in “the demise” of one cheek. You now seek support for its reincarnation, whiteboard history and, presumably, continued intensive care, ironically – and I’m clashing metaphor and reality here to make the point – presumably paid for by the NHS?
4/ The old firm represent 80% of “fitba.” Nothwithstanding the perversity of the simple fact that you were paid handsomely to address that fact, what exactly do the other clubs have to do in a positive sense, or indeed, do either cheek of the old firm have to do in a negative sense, to change that. I’m reminded of the old joke that “insert OF player of choice” was booked for a challenge for being “a bit late”, bearing mind he took out (insert your own hero of choice) as they got on the bus to go home.
Dear god, its like Mel Smith doing his tooth sucking, chin in hand philosopher act viewing Scottish Football and saying “Its a bit sh!t isn’t it. Shall we change it? Gawd no! Now where’s my pay packet, benefits and pension?”
Sorry – and with particular apology to the Celtic fraternity for my return to the OF shorthand…
Diddy rant over!
Roger Mitchell is correct when he says
People don’t reason when talking football. Whether that be thru their hatred, their reduced intellectual capacity for analysis, or just bloody mindedness.
And therefore because of my lack of reasoning and reduced intellectual capacity for analysis I come to the conclusion that he is a Fud. Doesn’t make me a bad person though- does it?
On a serious note he just spouts the same thing that others have been doing over the last four years.
“Scottish Football needs Rangers” but this is said without any of the reasoning and intellectual analysis he is shouting about.
The club/company was clearly a basket case for years before its demise and the new version with its multiple court cases, non payment of fines and threatening behaviour to other clubs, is no better.
What other professional sporting organisation needs or would actively encourage such a dysfunctional operation to be continue down the wrong path and blithely given membership without due diligence, scrutiny, controls, checks and balances to assist with any rehabilitation that is clearly required. Especially at a time when all other member clubs are putting their houses in order to operate in a sustainable manner.
Scottish Football may indeed need a Rangers, but for the good of the whole game that should not be the one that previously existed or the one currently having the brass neck to lecture and threaten others.
As discussed many times before instead of the constant looking backwards and relying on mouth pieces, such as the recent contributions from Richard Gough, the board should be developing a vision of a brave new Rangers fit for the 21st Century. King getting thrown under the bus would be the first step to getting things back on track.
As for the footballing authorities, to move on, they need to make clear and definitive statements and rulings about the past as opposed to the wishy-washy nonsense we have seen over the last four years.
Smugas 16th November 2015 at 11:31 am #
______________________________________________
And how very dare he deride Coatbridge
Sorry, and as a ps to the above,
Roger DEMANDS an intelligent argument.
OK Roger, here’s an open invite to come round to my house. Please explain to my son and daughter both of whom I’m delighted to say are more intelligent than I. Both are season ticket holding, strip buying, playground imitating regular attenders. Why they should tear themselves away from that damnable games console, completely ignore their interests, developing talents and time requirements of other sports and past times to go and sit in useless freezing viewing galleries of your design (via financial controls and rules) to watch a game where the opponents, no doubt with a massive historic competitive advantage anyway, might just, and in view of the lack of historic controls put in place by corporate leeches like you, probably are (since why the hell wouldn’t you), be cheating?
Explain that to me, and I’ll see you on Saturday and wave to you in the corporate box since you wouldn’t know a terracing if it came up and smacked you in the face.
Intelligent enough?
[Mitchell isn’t an old pal is he BP? To say this has got the juices flowing is to put it mildly]
Danish Pastry 16th November 2015 at 11:27 am
“…And he seems very eager to move on. How much did he know back then? Has he ever had an EBT? ”
_________)
Now, there’s a thought!
Were the SFA and SPL as employers tipped the wink by those among them who had , as former employees of a club which used them,knew what a wizard way it was to reduce payroll costs?
Has the taxman had a look at the their accounts?
Someone else has a response to Roger (I’m not posting links as for obvious reasons linkedin is not anonymised)
What I didn’t notice is that Richard Wilson was the first response. You won’t be suprise, surprised at his support
Yep excellent peace showing how journalists and ex administrtors who may yet be caught up in the sh!tstorm WHEN everything comes to light are desperately trying to sweep it under the carpet
Oh dear, TRFC don’t have their troubles to seek, although once again self inflicted trying to wriggle out of paying players holiday pay. How very dignified.
From DIGNITY
by The Insane Savannah
“My friend,you have no idea, do you?
Being smart means responsibility,and being hated all day.
I don’t care about that!I just want to feel more for once.
How many times must I apologize for getting a simple better than you?”
And to think some contributors on this very forum worked hard to defend Richard Wilson as a balanced and capable journalist of some integrity.
His journalism leaves a lot to be desired, and focuses almost solely around one football club.
The BBC seem keen to retain a plethora of “journalists” who are permanently attached to Rangers old and new, can’t quite understand why they get the special treatment but the certainly do.
I suppose its a bit like having full time royal correspondants? Except I think the Beeb only have 1 of those, while the BBC Scotland sport department have about 4 journalists committed to the agenda of Rangers, oops sorry I mean, the reporting of Rangers.
Shame they can’t just employ some journalists who are committed to all Scottish Football clubs and levels equally. Guys with open eyes and a sense of honesty and impartiality.
I’m only going to focus on one point made by Roger Mitchell. He said:-
3. Heed the lessons of Versailles. Scottish football needs to move on, heal, and work together. This nonsense delays all that.
Clearly, he is suggesting that we should not punish Rangers ‘too much’ in order to avoid ongoing recriminations. There are two problems with this point of view. Firstly, the oldco Rangers has not been punished at all. A fine was imposed, which has not been paid.
Secondly, I think almost everyone on this site would agree that a contrite RIFC that was living within its means and enjoying the journey would be positive for football in Scotland. However, how are we to react when the current incarnation of Rangers is repeating the profligate habits of old, doping it’s way through the divisions, lying to its fans and threatening other clubs for having the temerity to have opinions on the matter?
Right now I can only see the firing squad as the appropriate way to deal with the latest incarnation of Rangers with the hope that a more benign version may be nurtured in the future, with the active involvement of sane Rangers fans.
This was the response from Roger Mitchell to the two excellent replies to his errant nonsense posted above by Tykebhoy at 11.23 & 12.08
“Thanks for taking the time. Good replies. All I guess I can truly answer you both comes under the heading of Reakpolitik. At 51 I find myself using this a lot. Maybe I’m just a tired cynic now. But I do know what managing a league in a place like Glasgow is like. Something like this cannot be won by reason. And what I see now is a perfect storm that will consume what’s left of the game up there. There needs to be an exit strategy. There are 2 loads of agitates here. Celtic fans, and fans of the diddy teams (sorry :-)). This argument of wanting to bring down the OF to the level of the others is for me typically socialist. Smacks of jealousy. I spent 4 years trying to get them out of scotland. To leave the diddy teams to enjoy their football.”
Words fail me-he knows his argument is made redundant by these two excellent replies and this is the best he can come up with.
Re Roger Mitchell’s response. I replied with “The exit strategy is for justice to be dome and seen to be done” For clarity I wrote the original response to Roger which I copied here at 11.23.
Does anyone know if a sentence handed out in, for instance, a South African court can have any bearing in a British court? For example can a suspended imprisonment be activated for a repeat offence in a different territory?
Not disconnected, a blogger elsewhere is suggesting Douglas Park has reappeared to deal with the fallout in the eventuality of DCK being indisposed sometime in December.
Now it says a lot that even he wouldn’t have been stupid enough to say that (which, to be fair, he didn’t)! Yet.
@Jimbo. No the suspended SA sentence can’t be triggered or served here. However Uncle Mike wants a certain person potentially locked up over Christmas for alleged contempt of court. The alledged contempt being DCK broke the “gagging order” over RRL confidentiality when he gave SSN a guided tour of his wine cellar.
Sombody pointed out you could fill an advent calendar with Sevco related court dates in the next month with the employment tribunal being the latest addition.
So Roger the dodger confirms what we diddy fans always suspected.
He spent his time trying to satisfy the agenda of two clubs to the financial detriment of all of the other SPL clubs.
Ironically, most of us diddies would have been happy if he had succeeded, but he failed in that as he failed in pretty much every other aspect of his role.
Matty Roth 16th November 2015 at 12:36 pm
“… BBC Scotland sport department have about 4 journalists committed to the agenda of Rangers, oops sorry I mean, the reporting of Rangers…”
_______
Indeed. And we BBC licence payers have no choice but to help fund that imbalance, whereas none of us is compelled to buy a newspaper.
I think there are people at the top of Radio Scotland who ,like the Mitchells in the football world, would rather distort and hide the truth than face up to it in the name of ‘pragmatism’.
Like the Mitchells, they ought never to be in charge of any part of the BBC: if they can’t tell the truth in a relatively unimportant matter such as the sports cheating of one club what other, more important truths will they distort when under pressure?
tykebhoy,
Thanks for that. makes me wonder why MA didn’t use a SA court to bring him to trial. After all the alleged offence took place there and the suspended sentence would be triggered if found guilty.
Presumably because in this case he would not be in contempt of an SA court, he would be in contempt of a British one.
tykebhoy 16th November 2015 at 1:16 pm
Re Roger Mitchell’s response. I replied with “The exit strategy is for justice to be dome and seen to be done” For clarity I wrote the original response to Roger which I copied here at 11.23.
—-
Bravo! Your detailed reply a brilliant riposte to RM! Among other things he’s suggesting most fans are intellectually challenged. All he’s achieving is embarrassing himself by revealing his own ignorance; as has Richard ‘lickspittle’ Wilson.
Dear Roger,
I read your open blog occasioned by the less than unanimous support you achieved in the wake of your appearance on radio (an appearance which I am sad to say I did not witness).
A couple of points with observations from and on behalf of some non-football-administering fans.
What good would it do if honours were removed from a club that had demonstrably gained an unfair advantage by the use of illegal means – and did not disclose the nature of that advantage as required by regulation? Really – you, a former senior administrator of the game have to ask that question?
Let’s turn that around for a minute. What harm would it do?
And also, do you remember from your time at the top that there were people who run and support teams other than Celtic & Rangers?
That’s not Realpolitik. That is ducking the issue. If you punch your way out of the paper bag of lunacy that surrounds that statement, you will see that objective conclusions can easily be drawn from David Murray’s own evidence to the FTT & UTT. “We were able to obtain the services of players we could not have afforded otherwise”. While we are at it, how can you objectively prove that someone who failed to sign a form in triplicate (as was the case with Spartans when they were tossed out of the Scottish Cup) gained any sporting advantage?
I’m having to remind myself to breathe right now. How will ignoring this issue heal the damage perceived by everyone in Scottish Football to have been done?
Well we have tried it for the last three years. It was fine. Check the numbers – objectively of course. Scottish Football doesn’t want to lose Rangers – or any other club, including Third Lanark and St Bernard’s and Gretna, but the game doesn’t NEED any single individual club.
Besides, what has that to do with having an inquiry into breaches of the rules.
Fair enough.
With difficulty, I have achieved that feat.
WE care about anything that undermines the integrity of our sport whether it is here or abroad.
It is a relief to see why a football administrator with those kinds of Laissez-faire attitudes towards governance has the prefix “former” attached.
Your ejaculatory reference, “I’m a Celtic supporter by the way!” demonstrates your myopic and binary view of our game. You may well be a Celtic supporter, but you are not a football supporter. By any objective measure, that much is clear.
Regarding Roger Mitchell’s response ;
obviously the rules of SFA/SPFL need to be re-written along the following lines
League
the top league will be won by one of two clubs, whether they do or not . This is for your own good .
Cups
teams other than the aforementioned two will occasionally be allowed to triumph in Scottish and League cups . This is to project a veneer of competition onto the product .This will be rare and random . We don’t want our co-efficient damaged as this adversely affects the aforementioned two clubs . This is for your own good .
Structure
first chance we get, we will remove the aforementioned two clubs to a place of relative prosperity and the remaining clubs can resume meaningful competition .
“Typically socialist” that rules are applied equally , without fear or favour ?
And I wonder if fans of the aforementioned two clubs are pleased with his efforts on your behalf .
A nice bit of ‘seagulling’* by Mitchell. I thought this management technique had been discredited?
*Fly in, make a lot of noise, sh!t on everyone & fly off.
Phil’s take on the Park re-appointment.
http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/uninformed-but-accountable/
Been meaning to share this view for a wee while, so here goes.
In conversation by someone i disagreed with on the whole Rangers/Sevco side- letters and EBTs fiasco i was asked what i want….
My first response is for the truth to be accepted and ackowledged by ALL parties.
My second response is for justice to be done and seen to be done.
My third resonse is the consequences of truth and justice will have to be enforced such that there is a DETERRENT to any member of scttish football to act that way in future.
Then i ranted for about 10 minutes….
Here is roughly what i said.
The possible EBT appeal to the UK supreme court may change this a little, but if i go ahead on the basis that will not happen here goes.
1. During the period 1998-2010 Rangers Football Club incorrectly registered a majority of their players, coaches and others.
2. A direct finding is these players were ineligible and these results are subsequently altered to be 0-3 against rangers whenever an ineligible player was fielded.
3. A consequence is any SPL league titles, Scotish FA CUP, Scottish league CUP are removed from Rangers Football Club.
4. Rangers Football Club are therefor in debt to the SPL/SFA of all prize money awarded, this is not a fine or penalty, just a consequence of 3.
5. Rangers Football club entries to European Football is subsequently found to be invalid and UEFA have been informed to make appropriate adjustements to their records and demand return of any inappropriatey awarded prize money.
6. The registered directors of Rangers Football Club over the period of 1998- 2010 are found to systematically ran and coverred up a corrupt registraton scheme over a pro-longed period of time. A range of penalties will be applied to all those directors from minimum bans from football/sport of 2 years to lifetime bans from all football/sporting activities.
7. The registered directors of Rangers Football Club over the period of 2010- 2012 are found to systematically covered up a corrupt registraton scheme. A range of penalties will be applied to all those directors from minimum bans from football/sport of 2 years to lifetime bans from all football/sporting activities. (including the administrators from Duff & Phelps)
8. Any members of the Scottish Football governing bodies who did not act in the best interests of Scottish Football in relation to the corrupt registration scheme and subsequent cover up shall be deemed to have brought the game into disrepute with approriate consequences.
9. Due to points 1-8 the membership of Rangers Football Club is terminated.
10. Rangers Football Club are fined 50 million pounds for the systematic cheating and cover up.
11. Any football players, agents, directors or relevant others are at risk of bans (or further bans) from football/sport if they do not attend and co-operate with the “scottish football truth and reconcilliation commission” and act truthfully.
12. The Rangers Football Club membership as terminated should not have been be transferred to sevco scotland in June 2012.
13. Sevco scotland may on return of all monies within section 4 and payment of all fines against Rangers Football Club within section 10 continue to act as Rangers Football Club. Sevco scotland may however continue with a new membership backdated to June 2012, however it shall have to register new colours, new badges and accept that Sevco Scotland is not Rangers Football Club and a new club shall require to be entered with approriate adjustments to records/trophies since 2012.
14. The “scottish football truth and reconcilliation commission” will determine any future changes to corporate governance of scottsh football in order to prevent the re-occurence of the events from 1998-2015, incuding the introduction of proper financial fair play.
This is about right before i consider “moving on”
Consequences of the previous cheating are that some current Sevco Scotland directors are found to be unfit to be involved in scottish football, new directors shal be appointed as a matter of urgency.
Anyway thanks for reading and am entirely open to how tis is extended/adjusted, esecially what the fine is for 1998-2010 cheating and 2010-2012 covering up, thought 50 million GBP seems a good number.
Buddy
buddy_holly 16th November 2015 at 3:26 pm
In reference to one of your old Hits Buddy ” All I Have to do is Dream “
Roger Mitchell in 4 words “They are the people”… his reference to lower intelligence is sufficient for me not to read what he says…it is the same argument Darwin used in the Ascent of Man regarding Irish People compared to Scots and Spanish people compared to anyone… It is a very dangerous road to go down.
Realpolitik my eh eh eh hat…Realpolotik was the DDR or Any of the other nations behind the Iron Curtain up to 1989.. Not accepting that Realpolitik was what led to peaceful revolution afte peaceful revolution.
Intelligence is a thing which those who have a lot of of never talk about.
About Scottish football in general, and about improving the customer experience [bear with me !]
For those who didn’t see it last night: I’m not a great NFL fan, but I caught the last 4 minutes of the NE Patriots v. NY Giants game last night [which eventually took about 20 minutes to play out !]
But it was a very exciting finish.
My point is: the Giants thought they had scored a touch down to effectively win the game – and the 80K [?] home support went crazy with delight. The refs then deliberated about the catch, then proceeded to make the ‘TD’ sign, to confirm that yes, the score was good. Stadium crowd was delirious.
But then there was a video review, and the ref belatedly cancelled the TD.
Crowd goes crazy again but not in a good way. With my limited knowledge of the game, the TD looked OK to me.
The main ref then walked back into the middle of the field, switched on his mic and explained to the crowd/paying customers why the TD was in fact disallowed.
None of the hulking Giants’ players surrounded the ref to shout abuse at him etc.
The crowd was displeased, but informed.
And of course, the Patriots went on to steal the game by a point.
Why can’t the refs at SPL games – at least – provide similar feedback to the fans during a game ? Simple technology to improve the customer experience. I just don’t get it.
[I’m not sure though if a pilot would have to be sanctioned by UEFA/FIFA ?]
Aside from the main topics of debate currently, the SFA/SPFL should be continuously looking at how to make the match day experience better for current fans – and to attract new fans to the game. But as we know, neither seems interested in fans’ opinions.
Customer-focused, my @rse !
I note John James is giving a run down of the AGM and the plan to sideline Ashley and get hands on the supporters cash to help see the season out.
Given Ashley seems to be coming out all guns blazing I can’t help feel that if the plan as put forward by JJ goes through he will end up not only gunning for King but anyone else caught in the firing line.
So either Park has come back to smooth the waters or he better have enough spare cash to assist in giving Mike his £5m back because in a very short while I can see the possibility of court actions in direct relation to the loan facility that may make them regret going toe to toe.
If any money raised via the fans goes straight into Mike’s hip pocket and extra monies are still required to see the season out I don’t think that would go down too well with some Bears.
A blast from the past may remind a few folks what is at stake.
Mr Murray said: “I feel very sorry for Airdrie and their supporters but we’re running a business. We have given them repeated warnings and felt they were playing on our good nature.”
Buddy Holly,
Aye, That’ll be the Day!
Paradisebhoy 16th November 2015 at 3:34 pm #buddy_holly 16th November 2015 at 3:26 pmIn reference to one of your old Hits Buddy ” All I Have to do is Dream
***
Think that was The Everly Brothers. Don and Phil(not our Phil, though!)
Paddy M.@ 2.49
If my reading of Mitchell is correct then the bit about his frustration about one-off cup wins and Diddy internationals suggests to me that your point 2 about non OF cup wins however few and random, being permitted to provide the competitive veneer will simply not be tolerated!
I can’t decide if Richard Wilson deserves praise for the supportive comment (which after all was polite I n response to an appearance on “his” show and is in line with his own beliefs which didn’t take a huge stretch of our imaginations any way, or that it demonstrated a continuing lack of wherewithal regarding the matter in hand. Did he genuinely believe this would advance the argument?