LNS – A Summary

 

cropped-sfmSquare.pngLNS is currently back in the headlines. It might therefore be a good time to try to set out a timeline describing correspondence we had with the representatives of the authorities over discrepancies and anomalies that appeared to have arisen. None of this is necessarily predicated upon the recent findings of the CoS in the Big Tax Case, but stands on its own.

Back in February 2014 The Scottish Football Monitor wrote to Harper MacLeod, the law firm that the SPL had engaged to gather evidence for the Lord Nimmo Smith (LNS) Commission investigating the full and proper registration of players paid by Rangers Football Club under Employee Benefit Trust (EBT) arrangements.

The initial set-up of the LNS Commission on 5th March 2012 by the SPL (View File) charged LNS with a look at EBTs from 1st July 1998 (when the SPL came into being).

In practice though, the Commission only looked at EBTs from 23 November 2000 onwards.

This change of date was based on the earliest side letter supplied by Duff and Phelps, although Harper MacLeod had requested ALL documentation from 1998 to March 2012 relating to ALL EBTs.

This prompted a series of letters to Harper MacLeod from The Scottish Football Monitor, although Harper MacLeod’s replies failed to address the issues raised.

The passage of time blurs memories but this archive is designed to remind readers of those blogs and correspondence, and the key points contained in them.

It also highlights the apparent inability or unwillingness on the part of the SPL and SFA to engage with us in any meaningful way.

NB: The SFA were informed of our correspondence by Harper MacLeod in October 2014.

It is extremely difficult to be concise in this situation. There are various strands of argument and details seemingly small, but vitally important – however the following is an attempt to make the material accessible and provides links to the relevant files in chronological order (links are in green).

 

  • Item 1: The first SFM letter of 19th February 2014 to Harper MacLeod
  • Item 2The Annexes containing the documents apparently not supplied to Harper Macleod in the spring of 2012 along with other pertinent information about the testimony given to LNS during the Commission.
  • Item 3The SFM response of 29 March 2014 to Harper MacLeod’s reply to the first letter.
  • Item 3.1: An SFM analysis of Harper MacLeod’s initial reply attached to response at 3.
  • Item 4: An SFM blog of 5th September pointing out how the documents not supplied had a direct impact on the advice given to the SPL Board to accept The Decision of The LNS Commission.
  • Item 5: The last letter of 4th October 2014 to Harper MacLeod answering points raised by them (see next) and thanking them for passing our correspondence to the SFA Compliance Officer who has so far deigned not to reply.
  • Item 5.1Harper MacLeod’s actual response to SFM 5th September letter.
  • Item 6: An SFM Blog (Inc. a transcript of an interview between Alex Thomson and Stewart Regan).
  • Item 6.1: Truncated version of above blog.
  • Item 7: A clearer extract of key document from Item 2 Annexes

 

Having no locus to demand answers from the SPL or the SFA, all we can do is provide information – information that we believe presents a prima facie case that LNS was deeply flawed even before the latest developments in the Tax Case came to light. The challenge for us is this: what can we do about it?

It is clear from the meagre response we have received that the authorities are unwilling to engage with us, so it is fair to assume that further correspondence will be met with the same lack of response.

Are we merely a bunch of obsessed nut-jobs with our own take on the Flat Earth conspiracy? If that is the case, surely a few words of explanation to dispel our doubts would have had traction with the rest of the football public. Indeed the lack of any reply undoubtedly serves as confirmation of our belief that something may be seriously wrong.

The questions have been posed. The SFA appears to think that not answering them is a wise course of action. Given that anecdotal evidence presents a compelling case that the general football public are widely in agreement with us, are there any journalists out there who will take the time to look at what we have observed and what we seek clarification on?

There are undoubtedly inferences to be drawn from the evidence we have, and from the silence of the authorities.

The statement by Celtic on Friday 13th November is certainly a start in the process we wish to begin, but it only mentions the elephant in the room. It gives no clue about how it could be transported to another place.

In the first instance we at SFM seek only explanations, and despite the inferences mentioned earlier, we are still eager to be satisfied that rules were followed and justice done.

Is there really  nobody in the MSM who has the courage to seek the answers we seek? I suspect not. What we do in the absence of that courage is important. We are at a crossroads. Either we give up on the game altogether and spend our Saturdays and Sundays doing other things – or we find a way to get these questions out of blog pages and into the mainstream.

We need an alliance of fans of all clubs to do that, and we will be looking to build that alliance. I would urge fans of all clubs to give this material to fan sites of their own clubs.

These are not just words. There can be no movement on this issue unless our reach is extended. SFM alone does not have the clout required to bring the clubs to the table or the MSM to fair and balanced reporting. We need that alliance of fans desperately. We don’t seek leadership of that alliance – but we are happy to provide it if required.

This is not a campaign to have Rangers punished. I understand that Rangers fans (since their club is in the middle of this mess) are reluctant to see us as anything other than a bunch of Rangers haters.

That is unequivocally not the case from the perspective of the moderators of this blog. SFM is committed to justice, and to the integrity of the sport we all love.

Justice is ON THE SIDE of Rangers and their fans – it does not conspire against them. A growing number of Rangers fans are coming round to our way of thinking and our tone must reflect that. This is not a Celtic or  Hearts or Aberdeen or anybody else v Rangers issue. This is a fans v corrupt authorities issue.

We all deserve answers, and hopefully our alliance will compel each individual club to act in the interests of the fans .

 

 

 

 

 

This entry was posted in General by Trisidium. Bookmark the permalink.
Tom Byrne

About Trisidium

Trisidium is a Dunblane businessman with a keen interest in Scottish Football. He is a Celtic fan, although the demands of modern-day parenting have seen him less at games and more as a taxi service for his kids.

2,349 thoughts on “LNS – A Summary


  1. Was Mooney’s not supposed to be an independent input though?

    You can’t class this alongside the deliberately titled Celtic blogger’s blog, Rangers Blogger’s reposte, Utd blogger’s funny little rant etc.

    This was supposed to be real journalism was it not?


  2. Smugas, I refuse to read it, so didn’t see how it was presented in the rag, sorry.
    From his earlier piece on the witch hunt, it looks as if he is just another fan blogger, though, even if he has a NUJ card as a ‘freelance’. Mind, you could say that about a lot of them!


  3. Ach did it myself.
     
    To Nil By Mouth (See their Web page for contact details.)
     
     I am appalled that the Daily Record have allowed an article to be published by a guest blogger that suggests supporters of other clubs seeking transparency and accountability from the Scottish National Football Association are driven by sectarianism/ hatred of The Rangers Football Club.

    The DR appear to be hiding behind the excuse that the views expressed are not the DR’S and so they can wash their hands of any responsibility for turning a matter of good governance into a sectarian issue that will inflame rather than enlighten and inform society.
    I believe that this policy of the DR should be raised with them in public to remind them sectarianism and anything that promotes it or uses it to pursue a narrow agenda is simply not acceptable to organisations like yourself.
    You may wish to forward to other like organisations, the Churches and Government.


  4. neepheid 18th November 2015 at 9:51 am #

    From Alex Mooney (who?)  in this morning’s Record. It’s hard to know where to start with this, but this sentence caught my eye- “Their irreversibly entrenched view will always be that ‘the Protestant establishment club cheated on an industrial scale and the corrupt SFA and mainstream media were in cahoots in a whitewash’.”I think we’re now being portrayed as sectarian bigots. The desperation is becoming tangible.
    _______________________________________________________

    I’m surprised he put down his flute long enough to write that juvenile garbage! They’re really putting out the emotive bunkum in recent days. What’s up? Things not going their way? Bit unfair that we’re not all rallying round for ‘the Protestant establishment club’. Well maybe all we Protestants should be, I mean, Rangers have made us all so proud of our religion for all those years…NOT!


  5. neepheid 18th November 2015 at 2:19 pm #
    Auldheid 18th November 2015 at 1:59 pm #There are serious questions to be asked of the Daily Record iro that latest guest blog. 
        ——————————————————————————————But the real question is surely this- WHY are the Daily Record doing this to themselves?
      ———————————————————————————————
        I think it is simple enough neepheid. As their readership decreases, then so does their revenue, thus they become more dependent on any additional PR funds that come their way. 
        A bit like Sevco trying to stave off the death throes with soft loans………They have no other option !….But what else can they do but shut up shop.


  6. It seems to me that the atmosphere has changed in the last week.
    The agenda too and it has a kind of coordinated feel to it.
    I guess the (surprising?) appeal result and the other moves into various legal areas and frameworks on a bunch of fronts from internal fights at the various rangers companies to resolution 12.
    Wagons are being circled and the collective message to us who want a full and open review seems to be we are on the outside and it is time to move on for the greater good.
    I don’t think we can ever move on without honest digging and could have written this posting replying to Roger Mitchell’s “Linked in” piece.
    Some of the other replies are also very worth a view.
    …..
    “What a depressing, myopic and contradictory piece Roger. Right from your title telling us how “convenient hate is in our demise” to your illogical sequence of listed arguments.
    All Scottish fans want and need is an honest game honestly run. A game built on fair foundations.

    That will start to arrest our “demise”.
    We won’t ever catch all the cheats in football or any of our sports but when we do we should use the rules in place to deal with them.
    Our football administrators in Scotland in not using their rules, and not acting without fear or favour, have certainly demonstrated incompetence (as well probably as some baser and shadier attributes) and the unintended consequences of their collective actions have led to the (ongoing) rape of the club formally known as Rangers and the fans, who I feel most sorry for. There is so much material to talk about in forums like this and learn from.
    Things like the 5 way agreement, the Phoenix plan, the asset stripping and more will one day be used in case studies of “How not to” in places like ICAS and universities. Its not actually a football story but really about finance, egos, tax avoidance and how power and money become overwhelmingly corrosive.
    Papering over the cracks like you seem to advocate and moving on will just bury the cancers and won’t herald a renaissance.
    And this story won’t go away soon because some of the occurrences are heading for our courts. We need a clean game. Never has Scottish Football more needed real leadership.)”
    …..
    To finish I think the gap right now is that the clubs need to be the ones to start the evolutionary process and as of now there is no rallying point.
    Club chairmen and representatives are scared to put their heads above the parapet.
    We should be part of whatever it takes for getting one in place.
    And for that we need to know what we are asking the clubs to do.

    A kind of set of objectives and a road map that suits all our members including the two big Glasgow clubs.

    Scottish Football Urgently needs a rallying point to help the likes of Arbroath, the big clubs, the not so big clubs and the Spartans page two date-checkers.


  7. I do not believe that I have ever seen the word Protestant on this blog before today, that might tell us something.
    Cheating and having more money than others without cheating is not the same thing. Playing ineligible players who were rendered ineligible by hiding documents to frustrate the public authorities as well as the football authorities is not the same as playing only eligible players. 
    Render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s …( no Mr Mooney that is not a reference to the former Celtic captain, none of this is any more to do with Celtic than it has to do with all other scottish clubs and numerous others abroad.)
    Follow the rules 0-3 for any game when there was an ineligible player see where that ends up.  Voiding titles where the 0-3 leads to another Team finishing above Rangers in the competition is a very modest proposal and no real punishment. Retrospectively impose the decision thatRangers are expunged from the League no because of the 0-3 consequences but because of their dissembling over the existence of documents. If it is the same club now as then let the expunction continue.
    If that constitute foam flecked sectarian bigotry some of those lads now posing as journalists must have had profoundly sheltered backgrounds.


  8. bfbpuzzled 18th November 2015 at 3:58 pm
    ============================

    Spot on, it’s just another example of obfuscation, only this time it’s an offensive one presumably designed to get an emotional response. The best way to make someone lose a debate is to make them angry, get an emotional response and take them away from the point. Remember this follows closely on the heels of Derek Johnstone describing people who disagreed with his position re Rangers as have crawled from under a rock. It is somehow acceptable for a “pundit” to describe the listeners in such a manner, really.

    As someone said earlier the best response is not to fall for this sort of thing, not to be drawn into different arguments and just concentrate on the issues.

    As you say, it’s about applying the rules correctly, make all the scores 0-3 and see what happens. No-one is seeking “title stripping” (again an emotional phrase) just the law applied as it should be. If it transpires that Rangers did not win the league that year due to that then fine. In reality I think they won it by two or three points at that time. So one ineligible player in one or two games would probably do it.

    All we need now is for George Peat to tell us how tiresome the whole thing is becoming. He’s got form for that.


  9. I suppose in a perverse way, this DR article confirms that the whole LNS/titles issue is not going away anytime soon.

    Maybe the DR [& the SMSM as a whole] would much rather prefer to simply ignore the HMRC win and subsequent questions from Scottish football fans ?

    This extremely poor DR piece at least confirms that ignoring the TRFC/SFA/SPFL related issues is simply not an option for the SMSM.

    So they churn out nonsense pieces from all sorts, to try and convince all those customers with legitimate questions to just wind their necks in, and ‘move on’ for the good of the game.
    [Presumably because demanding some honesty and transparency in the governance of the game is not good for Scottish football ?!]

    The proliferation of weak, even insulting, arguments in support of ‘moving on’ indicates that Scottish football will most certanly not ‘move on’ – until there is some meaningful development wrt the TRFC saga – and which is acceptable to the fans of the other 41 clubs, IMO.


  10. Auldheid 18th November 2015 at 2:54 pm #
    ‘…Ach did it myself. To Nil By Mouth (See their Web page for contact details.).’
    _______
    Good.
    Would you consider this matter is in scope for a complaint to the Independent Press Standards Organisation?
    Perhaps BP/ Trisidium might consider a formal complaint based on your letter, and on SFM headed and addressed notepaper? As a first formal establishment of the blog’s place in the communications world.
    I cannot remember any quite so outrageously pernicious article being allowed to appear in a newspaper.
    There is NO defence that the article is a ‘blog’ by an individual: even readers’ letters can be complained against:
    “Most of the complaints IPSO receives relate to editorial material published by member publications, whether in print or on their websites. This includes:
    Articles; Images (including video); Audio material on newspaper and magazine websites; Readers’ letters; Edited or moderated reader comments on newspaper and magazine websites. ”
    Whether IPSO can or will act on the complaint, I think their attention should be drawn to it buy a ‘representative body’ such as the SFM.


  11. The good news is that the way circulation is falling it won`t be long now before the DR meets up again with RFC (IL)


  12. Avid lurker and very rarely post but this guy Mooney has got me so angry. ESTABLISHED PROTESTANT CLUB.What is that all about. Who is the second established protestant club?. Who is the 6th?. Brechin, St Mirren?. East Fife.  Who is the first Eskimo Athiest Team. IF IT’S WRONG IT’S WRONG. #clutchingatstraws


  13. After the Euro’s qualification by England, Wales, Northern Ireland, Republic of Ireland and even Iceland – the Scottish sports pages should be mostly full of discussion and critical comment on why Scotland – and Scotland’s youth – has missed out on yet another finals tournament – and suggestions on what the SFA has to do to turn things around.

    Instead the main focus is STILL on RFC/TRFC after 4+ long years of this all-consuming saga from pre-administration until now.

    I think most Scottish football fans would rather be discussing the future of the Scottish game and how to improve it.

    Inevitably though, the media coverage, the SFA/SPFL’s resources, and fans’ interest is continuously distracted by 1 deviant club in Scotland.

    I do honestly look forward to the day when TRFC is ‘sorted’ and the SFA/SPFL is ‘sorted’ – and this forum is discussing mostly positive, encouraging aspects of the game, and across all the senior clubs in Scotland.  


  14. As my fingers have, for many years, remained free of printers ink (you remember how it made such a mess of your jammy piece?) I rely heavily on this site to draw my attention to whatever rubbish the press publish. So I have to ask; have any of our esteemed newsy type people written any sort of article on what that former CEO of the SPL, Roger Mitchell, had to say about Scottish football being all about, and only about, Celtic and Rangers? Has any one of their body thought to take him, and the game’s governors, to task for allowing the notion that the rest of Scotland’s football clubs were ‘diddies’ to pervade the offices of the SPL, and, by association, no doubt in the offices of the SFA? 

    The inflammatory nature of these assertions from an ex CEO of the top league must surely be of greater newsworthiness than anything he’s so far said on the Rangers scandal itself, which was only opinion, after all! He’s publicly stated, from his high ranking former position, so it is of genuine value, that what all we diddy club supporters have said for decades, is true! What journalist, sports writer or mere hack could possibly not want to take him, and the governing bodies, to task over this? Just how many open goals have been missed, deliberately, by the Scottish media throughout this whole debacle? How many similar stories have been missed even before the EBT years?

    Of course, as I said at the start, I may have missed the clamour from the media that would naturally follow such a revelation! Have I?

    Jings, I nearly missed it, how can I be so scathing of the media? They’re no doubt up to their necks in writing about his revelation that he was helping the big two in their quest to leave Scottish football! Each and every one of them writing the greatest article they’ve ever written! Yeh, right.


  15. In the pub Friday night, same old stuff. I wasn’t going to comment as I have posted in a similar vein on several occasions. However, in light of the disgraceful article in the DR today, I feel compelled to share my experiences.
    Anyway, back to the pub. The usual debates came around and as gently as the occasion would allow, I advanced the line that it’s not about EBT’s, it’s the registrations. The responses I got chime almost exactly with the DR piece and other ‘articles of deflection’ we have recently been subjected to. ‘Won on the park’ ‘might have signed anyway’ ‘move on’ ‘LNS’ ‘it’s only tax, no’ really cheatin’ ‘obsessed’ ‘taxman down 2-1’.
    Newspaper editors (yes, even the sports desk) tend not to be stupid people. I am totally baffled as to why they are continuing to deflect from the issue at hand. What is the agenda? Who benefits? 
    Almost Friday again. Cannae wait!


  16.  I wrote to Mr Lawwell and expressed my concerns in relation to the HMRC winning appeal against Ibrox club.  I stated I would like to know my club’s stance if no appeal is lodged concerning findings from COS.  Since my letter Celtic put out the statement that we are all aware of and which I am happy with.
    I received a reply today from Mr Lawwell and in the reply was the following sentence “I have, of course noted your comments and you can rest assured that our primary concern is and always will be, to protect the interests of Celtic Football Club and Scottish football as a whole-at all times, publicly and privately”

    All fans shoud be assured by their own clubs as I have.
     


  17. Cygnus X2 18th November 2015 at 9:32 am #This site already has The List on it.
    I know this suggestion has been made before, but I think a definitive timeline of events that are beyond debate would also be incredible useful.
    James Forrest’s two part article has apparently already grown into a four part article. I think we’d all benefit from a wiki style timeline (without editorial) that could be used for ongoing reference. I think we all believe that the timeline will continue to be updated for some time to come!

    I’ve suggested this in the past. There are some great sites available to link to that would allow a nice looking timeline to be created with embedded documents, news stories etc. Some of them also allow the ‘owner’ to invite others to contribute which would mean it would not need to be a one person job. I like Tiki-Toki but there is also Dipity and, I’m sure lots of others
    I think it would be a great addition to the site


  18. In the same way I used to genuinely, if begrudgingly through gritted teeth, applaud a Lennox screamer so, fair play, I’ll acknowledge Lawells effort there as well! Begrudgingly, in case I didn’t mention it so!


  19. valentinesclown 18th November 2015 at 6:09 pm #

    Good to hear that PL acknowledged your letter and better still to read the content.
    He couldn’t have said it much clearer, without actually “wading in”!22


  20. The JJ document refers to no title tripping from sevco from EBT. If that is correct I look forward to the convolutions trying to apply that putative indemnity to the Spirit entity in Govan


  21. Corrupt official 18th November 2015 at 7:49 pm

    ===================================

    Good, they had their chance and didn’t take it. HMRC will now go after the tax, interest at commercial rates since the tax should have been paid, and penalties. A lot of people will be getting substantial bills.

    Her Majesty’s Revenue & Customs have played a massive part in this whole thing. From the original tax bills, the Sheriff’s Officers at Ibrox, the arrestments of Rangers’ bank accounts, the administration, refusal of the CVA, the liquidation, insisting on the liquidator, their investigations, continuing with the appeals.

    They aren’t quick but you don’t feck with the wongs.


  22. Deldon 18th November 2015 at 7:48 pm #JJ latest suggests Doncaster pivotal in 5 way agreement re no ‘title stripping’ https://johnjamessite.wordpress.com/2015/11/18/title-stripping-immunity/
    =============================
    I vaguely remember there was a claimed ‘draft 5WA’ copy being circulated a long time ago, [via CF ?].
    Is JJ quoting a ‘confirmed final copy’ of the 5WA, or from this alleged draft ?

    If the link is true though, it’s not surprising, but does it really change anything ?
    i.e. SFA/SPFL will do their damnedest to ignore everyone about LNS / titles.
    If it is indeed true, I wouldn’t necessarily blame Doncaster who is there to make money for the clubs.
    I would first & foremost blame Regan, [& Ogilvie], for selling the game down the Clyde…  


  23. Deldon 18th November 2015 at 7:48 pm #
    JJ latest suggests Doncaster pivotal in 5 way agreement re no ‘title stripping’ https://johnjamessite.wordpress.com/2015/11/18/title-stripping-immunity/
    ______________________________________
    The ‘Title Stripping Immunity’ idea, I just don’t get from this JJ blog. Can anyone explain how:

    “The SPL hereby undertakes solely and exclusively to Sevco and to no other person that the SPL shall not take or commence disciplinary proceedings against Sevco in respect of any EBT Payments and Arrangements.”  (My bold at Sevco)

    leads to a title stripping immunity for Rangers FC?

    I can follow, to an extent, his reasoning that this undertaking might be cause for Doncaster’s resignation in the event of a review or reopening of the LNS Tribunal, I can also believe that a deal might have been made to guarantee no title stripping, but I can’t see it in that quote, nor glean it from JJ’s words!

    To my mind, this only gives a guarantee to Sevco (Green) that they won’t be hit by any fallout as Sevco – and there’s no one, I’m sure, would argue that Sevco had any titles to strip, though they, as a company wanting entry to the SPL, might legitimately fear future financial, or playing, penalties (related to the EBTs) as a result of claiming Rangers’ membership!


  24. I am sure there are various documents purporting to be the 5-Way agreement. I attach one such document which is claimed to be a draft which was sent to the relevant parties for signature.

    I have no idea if it is real, or if it is was whether it was subsequently amended. As with all things, everyone should draw their own conclusions.


  25. Corrupt official 18th November 2015 at 7:49 pm #
    From accountancy age re EBT’shttp://www.accountancyage.com/aa/news/2434461/-no-plans-to-reopen-ebt-settlement-scheme-post-rangers-ruling
    ============================
    The article is best read in conjunction with the previous one about the position of the tax advisers. It also alludes to the reason why so many so called tax experts have come out against the CoS decision and are praying that BDO will appeal.

    http://www.accountancyage.com/aa/news/2434059/advisers-in-invidious-position-after-rangers-ebt-ruling

    But it is believed that many advisers told their clients to wait and see how the Rangers case turned out, rather than take advantage of the settlement opportunity. Today, those clients are now facing substantial bills, many times larger than those they would have paid had they used the settlement regime.
    “The biggest issue is the taxpayers who haven’t settled and the absolute headache facing the profession,” MHA MacIntyre Hudson partner Alastair Kendrick told Accountancy Age.
    “It’s not the accelerated payments, it’s the difference in the quantum of the settlements that’s going to be the big issue. Clients will say ‘you should have put us on notice or told us of the risk’, so I can imagine there will be numerous people in this position. The accountant’s in an invidious position and their firm will be liable.”


  26. James Forrest 18th November 2015 at 8:37 pm

    ==================================

    JF

    I don’t know if it’s just me but I’m getting a 404 error with that link. It looks incomplete to me. Sorry if I’m being dense.


  27. Homunculus
    same here with 404,but thinks its part 2 which you can click on under the 404 heading


  28. I just utterly , utterly, utterly dont understand why the clubs just cant get together and finally say “right enough is enough” .  There is an open goal in front of them right now . An opportunity to take football in this country down a different , better path. ALL clubs would  benefit in the long run if this was sorted once and for all and then we could all put our efforts into working with a new SFA , SPFL genuinely working to better scottish football and all pulling in the same direction.
    Surely its not too big an ask for a few club owners to man (or woman) up and see the big picture here. If they let this pass football in this country is finished IMHO . Im sure there must be loads of fans like myself who will walk away and never spend another penny in scottish football ever again if cheating on a grand scale is allowed and the same crooked high heid yins are still in place . 0606


  29. easyJambo 18th November 2015 at 8:51 pm 
       Apart from Grand National day, I am never in the bookies EJ, but I looked at it a wee bit like taking the odds at the counter, or waiting until the race has run. I always get sweaty palms when the wee wummin asks me that one. ….And that’s only putting on a Govan club each way for the weans   21


  30. Extracted from The Guardian / PA article today;
    “…A Spanish court has investigated [Neymar’s] transfer to Barça amid allegations that they made a declaration that they spent €57.1m for the player but in reality paid “at least” €83.371m. A lower fee meant less tax for Barcelona to pay.
    Barcelona, the club president, Josep Maria Bartomeu, and his predecessor, Sandro Rosell, are to stand trial for alleged tax evasion.
    In September, a court in Brazil froze assets worth a reported £31.3m belonging to Neymar following tax evasion allegations between 2011and 2013…”
    ======================================
    Interesting.

    So Barcelona the club/company 14 is on trial as well ?

    Obviously, there was ample evidence to obtain a court order to freeze Neymar’s assets 20 – despite him having access – I’m sure – to the best / most expensive legal brains in Brazil & Spain.  

    For the huge sums involved, you would think there could be a risk of Neymar turning out for the Local Lags XI…yet somehow I doubt it…  


  31. Just belatedly catching up on the goings-on today. Much has already been said about the pathetic Alex Mooney article, and rightly so, but one other sentence that jumped out at me was this.
    “Millions of words have been written and spoken on the saga yet any solution appears to be as elusive as ever.”
    Yet another angle to support the “time to move on” onslaught by suggesting a solution is elusive. No it isn’t. It’s anything but elusive, it’s as obvious as the sun in the sky. Impose an appropriate sanction for the years of blatant wrong-doing then we can move on. 
    Fairly simple, Alex.


  32. Well, after the Records article today, there is now a real attempt to turn this into a Celtic versus ‘The Rangers’ affair. They think they know what sells their paper; link one to the other and use a few inflammatory words.

    Really, is that the best they have left?

    So according to this article no one in Scottish football, FROM ANY OTHER CLUB, is interested in the administration of the sport in this country?
    It is only for the big boys……………………. well one big boy……………… well a club/company who thinks it is a big boy.
    That there is a vacuum within our sport is down to the SFA; bereft of knowledge in their own organisation’s rules, lacking in leadership, and unaware of how this scandal looks publicly.

    The media over the last ten days have completely lost the plot; lashing out at anyone and everyone because to look for real answers is not in their remit. They have dredged up all sorts of individuals in a desperate attempt to deflect from the organisations who should be answering questions. One of these guys essentially made the case that our league is only about two clubs and this is the guy who used to have one of the top positions in the country. How do you ever move our sport forward with thinking like that? 
    What the fans of these other clubs think after reading these articles is anyone’s guess but after reading a few responses on here I think I know.

    I was pretty disconsolate on Saturday night when I wrote on here but now I really do believe that the media are scared of where this scandal is going. They long ago ceased to be able to set the agenda in this story. As for the SFA; I think they are so insular they still believe that they can ride this out or perhaps they really are just plain stupid.

    We have kicked around a few ideas about how to get the message through to our own clubs and here is my suggestion.
    There is a song with a simple tune that the Celtic fans sing; ‘Stand up for the Champions’.
    Change ‘Champions’ to ‘Integrity’ and you have ‘Stand up for Integrity’.
    This echoing round grounds with all fans rising from sitting to standing would certainly make a statement to the directors of clubs.


  33. roddybhoy 18th November 2015 at 8:56 pm
    ‘..I just utterly , utterly, utterly dont understand why the clubs just cant get together and finally say “right enough is enough” . There is an open goal in front of them right now . An opportunity to take football in this country down a different , better path. ‘
    ___________
    I’d venture to suggest that there is  also a gaping chasm in front of them!
    To try to be fair to the general run of clubs, they had enough integrity and regard for the Sport as a sport to  appreciate that RFC(IL) had died as a football club, and were therefore literally out of the game.
    They again showed spunk and spirit enough to resist the frantic , manic, pressure put upon them (by the men they believed to be, in virtue of the detail of their day-to-day jobs, more aware of a wider picture than they) to admit a new club straight into the then SPL or into the then SFL 1st or 2nd divs.
    It was perhaps natural enough for them thereafter to wish to stay clear of the whole EBT matter , having as grounds  the fact that at the time-and for a long time- the Big Tax Case still had not been finally adjudicated upon.
    We don’t know, I suppose, how much attention they paid to the ‘wee tax case’ and the implications of what we now discuss under the ‘Resolution 12’ heading.
    If they thought about it at all, it would have been to lump it in as just another tax difficulty with the tax man, which would eventually be adjudicated upon ( and if the FTTT decision [ and how disgracefu that decision was!]  was anything to go by, adjudicated upon in favour of RFC(IL)
    Those who may have had some reservations on the ‘failure to disclose’ /ineligibility aspect probably eased their consciences and took moral pressure off themselves by accepting the LNS decisions at face value, without looking into them at all.
    But the findings by the Court of Session-the highest Court in Scotland- findings couched in the most straightforward of language which not only cut through the wholly artificially contrived and nonsensical scheme dreamt up by a lawyer (not smart enough to have avoided being being struck off) ,  now present an opportunity for all of our clubs to man and woman  up, and, as a body ( or, perhaps, two separate bodies,SFA and SPFL,working in harmony) to  seriously plan the investigation that they absolutely MUST have, once the date by which any appeal to the Supreme Court has passed without an appeal having been lodged.
    At that date,there will  be no excuses of ‘uncertainty’ about the tax situation, or any nonsense about the LNS decisions being irrevocable, given that the decisions were arrived at on the   basis of deliberately incomplete evidence being presented to the Judicial Tribunal, to inhibit immediate investigation into every aspect of how Scottish Football was able to be perverted by the cheating of one influential club owner, over many years.
    And the clearly established facts of the Res 12 matter can now be clearly seen as signalling that the officers of the the SFA at the material time were in on the business of cheating not just the members of their own association, but the member clubs of UEFA.
    Our clubs simply cannot now duck these fundamental issues.
    And I am reasonably hopeful that, seeing the chasm opening in front of them, they will realise that as well as defending Sporting Integrity by setting up a thorough investigation and taking all appropriate action ( transparently and fully) they will be protecting the futures of their own clubs, and the future of Scottish Football.


  34. My gut has been churned at the introduction of religion to this debate. Some may scoff at my naïveté, but please, please don’t engage. This blog has resisted magnificently the sideways swipes, the old (firm) attitudes and resisted the tribalistic, narrow endeavours of others who wish this to be just about two teams and the view that it is about ‘that’ thing. Its the reason I am engaged, all be it belatedly, in a public way. It’s about rules, intention of rules and spirit of rules. Consequences and outcomes. This is directed at no one in particular, as I said , it’s my gut speaking.


  35. darkmoon 18th November 2015 at 5:35 pm #Avid lurker and very rarely post but this guy Mooney has got me so angry. ESTABLISHED PROTESTANT CLUB.What is that all about. Who is the second established protestant club?. Who is the 6th?. Brechin, St Mirren?. East Fife. Who is the first Eskimo Athiest Team. IF IT’S WRONG IT’S WRONG. #clutchingatstrawS
    …………………………………………….
    As with Jm15 above, I agree that we should not bring religion into this debate.
    However, I must set darkmoon straight. Buddies do not want to be known as the 6th Protestant established club.
    St Mirren fans think football is only a sport.  A glorious sport which should be unshackled from all religious ties.
    Nonetheless we have all, always, been proud to be Buddist and will remain so.


  36. fishnish 18th November 2015 at 11:25 pm
    ‘….been proud to be Buddist ..’
    _____
    I like that clever word-play!Full marks.


  37. Deviation! This is a fitba’ blog. Goals, not marks. Though how goals could be added or subtracted begets a whole new discussion! I give you Maradona’s ‘goal’ and lampard’s ‘non goal’.


  38. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p037bp9w

    Am I being precious thinking the written blurb introducing the radio programme is incredibly condescending towards Scottish (and Spanish) football?

    It strikes me as atypical of how the BBC view Scottish football and its place in the world…one of the greatest players to have graced Scotland in recent years and who gave the best years of his career to Scottish football, reduced to an afterthought because he played 8 weeks for Manchester United.


  39. Timing, as they say, is everything.

    And as my old man used to frequently say, he who laughs last laughs longest.

    I recently posted about previously wanting Celtic to make their position clear, but now being prepared to wait until the EBT legal situation was resolved. Of course, what do I know? Next day (I think) the club made a statement. 14

    It was measured and was intended, I think, to be a place holder for the moment. With an AGM imminent, I think they are trying to keep their powder dry, waiting for the right moment.

    I hope plenty of other clubs are doing likewise.

    We are drawing ever closer to a final resolution of the EBT case.

    I think we really have to wait until the final outcome emerges before we can make demands for public statements and action from the clubs.

    In the meantime, we should certainly be piling up the pressure in terms of making the case for appropriate sanctions to be applied – both for already established cheating, and for further aspects of cheating that might be confirmed by the final EBT ruling.

    The case for sanctions must be reasoned and unambiguous – and I have yet to see anything in the SMSM that looks like it could even remotely dent the analyses that you guys put up on this site day after day.

    The DR article today is a new low, further demonstrating there is no stratum in the gutter they will not descend to in order to try to maintain their stranglehold over our sport. Of course, it also betrays their growing desperation.

    The great impasse is the realisation that there is no middle ground here.

    For all that they are willing to degrade their profession, as, in fact, are a great many former footballers and managers, what they must finally realise is that at no point between now and the end of eternity will they be able to persuade me or those like me that we were not cheated.

    If somehow they “win” – I will walk away from the game and shake the dust from my shoes as I go.

    How will they cope if we “win”?  How quickly will they try to take credit for telling us from the start what a crook SDM was? I wonder if they are already planning the headlines for a coup at the SFA?

    I hope so. Because it is a coup that is required, and I hope upon hope that all of our clubs are using this time to prepare the ground for direct action against the people that have brought our sport into such disrepute.

    Victory for them is continuation of a sordid, rigged, pseudo-sport whose only purpose is to extract money from your pocket.

    Victory for us is a decent, honest sport that you can confidently share with your children.

    If having the last laugh sounds too confrontational, then picture having that laugh while you have a kickabout with the kids or are walking out with them from a stadium, having just seen a great game of footie featuring two teams on a level playing field.

    The jokers that ran our game into the ground have been laughing at the paying public for far too long. Here’s hoping the last laugh is at them.


  40. Jm15 18th November 2015 at 11:06 pm
    ‘… it’s my gut speaking..’
    ________
    And that beautifully sums it up!
    The ( almost) universal amazement , and a wee bit of chuckling  ‘schadenfreude’  that some may have enjoyed, turned into a blaze of anger when we learned that we all had been systematically conned and deceived by one man over many years.
    And then turned into a cold rage when we realised that the  very ‘guardians’ of our game had all along themselves been ‘Lance Armstrong’ equivalents- cheats determined to defend cheats and cheating.
    And when you add in the likes of the Daily Record and BBC Radio Scotland, the cold, gut rage we feel turns into a sort of pity.
    Pity for the souls of men ( as far as I know, no women) who sold those very souls for a mess of succulent lamb, washed down by the arch-cheat’s best vintage.
    Where can these utterly discredited men go, other than under the nearest wet stone to join the slaters and other wee slugs and beasties who live there?
    There is certainly no honourable place for them in ‘sports journalism’- they have, either by their false reporting or by their inexcusable failure to actually ‘report’ the truth, forfeited any claim to be taken seriously. And their editors with them.
    If I were to be a child of any of them, I would deny my paternity.


  41. There is only one thing panicking the SMSM right now. These puerile and sometimes dangerous deflection attempts, the nonsense and downright lies. I wouldn’t be surprised if the rags are printed in big shouty shouty capital letters tomorrow. Something has gotten them really worried and flapping like a flock of seagulls. 
        It is you and I ladies and gentlemen. That and our voice and opinions. They cannot speak for us any more. They have lost the remote control for the telly ! 
       Bampots have it. 21   
      Keep up the good work and don’t give them it back. Its our turn to choose what is on next. 
       And if you haven’t written to your club yet,…. Away and do it now! You know you won’t have time tomorrow, Go and get a pen……Its under the cushion beside the remote.
       Power ladies and gentlemen. You have it ! …Use it !  
       


  42. http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14040737.Craig_Whyte_could_get___6m_from_claim_on_Rangers_oldco_creditors_pot/
    Craig Whyte could get £6m from claim on Rangers oldco creditors pot

    A CLAIM over the whole of the £18 million creditors payout pot of the liquidated Rangers oldco could earn Craig Whyte £6 million, it has emerged.
    The company formed by Craig Whyte to buy the club off Sir David Murray for £1 four years ago, is taking legal action over the claim which has been rejected by liquidators.
    Rangers FC Group, formerly Wavetower, is now contesting the decision by liquidators BDO through the Court of Session.
    The Rangers FC Group has taken over the claim from Law Financial Ltd, a company previously linked to Whyte, that it is owed up to £25 million, saying it holds the security over the assets of the in-liquidation Rangers oldco RFC 2012 plc.
    The Herald revealed last month that new documents show that LFL had now taken control of Rangers FC Group which held the security.
    New documents show that ultimate controllers of LFL and the action are the Worthington Group, an investment firm also once connected to Mr Whyte and who in October last year said would continue to stake a legal claim over Rangers’ business and assets.
    Worthington Group plc, confirmed in filings two years ago, that when it had the option of purchasing a 100 per cent stake in LFL, it was obliged to pay Whyte £1 million in unsecured convertible loan notes and one third of the proceeds of any assets, claims or rights owned by his companies.
    An interim £10 million payout to unsecured creditors of the in-liquidation oldco was due to have been made at the end of July to the tune of around seven pence, but it is still held up.
    The claim if successful, would make Rangers FC Group the only secured creditor and first in line ahead of HMRC, despite last week’s victory in the Big Tax Case involving Employment Benefit Trust payments to former Rangers staff.
    It has been confirmed that Rangers FC Group have begun a Court of Session appeal against the BDO decision to reject the claim. Both sides have until December 28 to make clear the extent of the appeal and for BDO to lodge answers to that.
    BDO has previously asked the court to dispense with the any potentially time consuming and potentially expensive future hearings to settle the issue and approve a deadline for a full claim to be submitted to the liquidators.
    The liquidators had previously indicated to creditors that if the claim was pursued, as it has been, it could hold up payouts for some time.
    Rangers FC Group says they hold the security over the assets reassigned to the company run by Mr Whyte that paid off an £18m bank debt as a condition of his purchase of the club from Sir David Murray for £1 in May 2011. He raised funds by organising a deal to sell off three years of future season ticket rights to Ticketus activated when he became owner.
    Mr Whyte said his company had a legitimate claim over Rangers’ assets, including Ibrox Stadium and Murray Park, because he had underwritten the London ticket agency Ticketus’s investment through his offshore company Liberty Capital and was “on the line” for £27.5m in guarantees and cash.
    Filings show that Craig Whyte is no longer a director of Rangers FC Group, and the four directors are Worthington Group executives Doug Ware and Richard Spurway, LFL and Liberty Corporate.
    Craig Whyte’s father, Thomas Whyte, was the sole director of Liberty Corporate until January, 2014. It is now controlled by LFL.
    Mr Whyte was a founding director of LFL, which claimed to have former Rangers newco Sevco 5088 as a subsidiary, but stood down from the board in August, last year.   In April, 2013, Worthington revealed it had been granted an option to acquire the whole of Law Financial Ltd which included Sevco 5088, which it said held a claim “independently reviewed by leading counsel…to all of the business and assets of RFC 2012 plc which were purchased by Sevco 5088 Limited or Sevco Scotland Ltd from the administrators… in June of 2012”.
    BDO declined to comment on the case. Worthington director Richard Spurway refused to comment.
    ————-
    So if Worthington win and the assets ever revert back to BDO then Worthington could end up owning Ibrox.


  43. I think that the diddy teams have always been aware of their place in the scheme of things in the sport of football in Scotland . We had the Establishment club, the usurpers and the rest . That has now been confirmed by Roger Mitchell .Contentious decisions in CFC v RFC meetings(and vice-versa) were headline news , the rest barely merited a mention  . We didn’t have access to information in the olden days , but accepted as gospel the stuff in the papers and what little was on television . Some of the football journalists were revered by Scottish football fans  . Scottish teams in Europe had to contend with bribery and corruption , and hostility from UEFA if they complained – they had their own pecking order and perceived diddy associations . Now that we are beginning to see some sort of come-uppance in FIFA and UEFA, you would hope that there would be the same here, but where are the whistleblowers ? It appears that even former players are conflicted, that nobody will break ranks maybe for fear of being made  outcast . The whole decline and fall of RFC(IL) and the management of it by footballing authorities is an insult to our collective intelligence , but try asking (as I have) football people what they know or who they know who does know and you hit a wall of silence  . It may be fear or misguided loyalty or vested interests but I think the parasite has tainted most if not all clubs . I understand CFC’s predicament wrt SMSM , but the only football people who have stepped up to the plate, as they say, are Hugh Adam and Turnbull Hutton (or at least the only ones with the esteem to be heard and acknowledged)  . In my opinion, there’s no point in just proving the authorities guilty of moral turpitude, the game has to cleanse itself from the inside.  Apart from that dross,, bet your mortgage on Thistle not to get beat this weekend, one of them at least ! PS  the word I learned today is heteroclite, and that brings us back on topic  wrt LNS .


  44. Re The Various Drafts of the 5 Way Agreement:
     
    See the attached which purports to be the original first draft and compare it with what was posted above by Homunculus as reportedly the final draft – Draft 6.
     
    The first draft is full of mentions of sanctions for EBT’s…..by the final draft there is no mention of EBTs at all.  Who knows if John James has sight of yet a later draft or even the final signed version but I would suggest one thing – if these drafts are genuine it certainly illustrates which way the wind was blowing throughout the “negotiations” …..
     
    Actually reminds of the time when “Rangers” were hauled up in front an SFA Judicial Panel for what, at the time, was described by Gary Allen QC as “Only match fixing in its various forms might be a more serious breach. They brought the game into serious disrepute.”
     
    You may recall what happened next….
     

    • Mr McCoist’s infamous “Who are these people” dog whistle rant….
    • 24 Hours personal security amid threats and bomb scares for Gary Allen QC
    • Credible threats (according to Police) to burn down Raith Rovers stadium
    • etc.

     
    And then…
     

    • “Rangers” go to the Court of Session seeking a judicial review against the punishment from the SFA Judicial Panel (12 month signing embargo)
    • “Rangers” win their case and despite such legal action being fundamentally against the principles of FIFA they are subject to precisely zero punishment for this…
    • “Rangers” then negotiate to actually accept the transfer embargo after all (that was nice of them) ….but only to start after the current transfer window that was then open closes

     
    So ..”Rangers” went in a few short weeks to being found guilty of actions deemed to be second only to match fixing to effectively zero punishment…not only for the initial offences but indeed also for the serious matter of taking legal action against the sports national body…
     
    I would say looking at Draft 1 of 5WA then Draft 6 it would be true to form for the final version to contain a guarantee of no action on the EBT issue…
     
    While I am here…..why has no one asked any serious questions on why Graeme Souness was getting paid by Rangers via an EBT 10 years after leaving the club…..I am convinced there are some very dark goings on indeed behind all of this…. and this is the real reason why there is such a concerted effort going on for everyone to forget about this and move on…..


  45. Personally I think the Rangers should accept the stripping of titles and just move on,
    this saga is getting tiresome ?


  46. i must say am getting tired of reading that the glasgow clubs make up 80% of the league, aberdeen hearts hibs  together are as big as one of the big two,then we have the rest of the clubs which like aberdeen hearts and hibs dont rely on the religious card,id say the number would be nearer 40 ,60 in favour of glasgow. petty i know. 
    enjoying the posts as much as ever and having a right good chuckle at the desperation of the media playing the sectarian card, must be more bad news on the way for the new club.


  47. The simple question to keep asking yourself re the 5WA is why would an experienced liquidation operator like Green accept a supposedly open ended football liability for the offences of Oldco.

    In case Mr Mooney’s reading, the answer is not that he always wanted to play for Rangurz since he was a wee boy.  No, really, it isn’t.  Well unless the actual definition of Rangersitis is blatant corruption of course.  Oh, hang on…

    To be fair Green himself has said that whilst the original agreement contained suitable punishment for EBT’s, always immediately ramped up to the emotive “title stripping” by all parties, that that was to be in return for a place at the top table which they then couldn’t deliver. As an interesting side point, a place at the table by who?  and why 5 (FIVE) way?  Funny that no-one’s mentioned that point 07


  48. Motor Red,

    I’m not really bothered by the actual percentage as such.  I do query though what the beholders of said wealth actually have to do before the balance is made, or even mildly encouraged, to shift.

    Clearly 12 years of blatant cheating isn’t enough so what would it take?  And don’t say overinvesting to the point (and beyond) of liquidation.  Apparently that isn’t enough either.

    God forbid something with a serious impact to the game happened!11  Boy, then we’d really see them get a stern telling off – which the newspapers would criticise as hating and the brat club would appeal in any case! 


  49. motor red 0852.  Exactly.  Taking last season’s attendance figures Celtic and TheRangers are 44% (22 each actually) of the paying public and the diddies 56%.  Impressive by the big two but, as you say, not the wipeout as reflected in the MSM.  So the question remains; why are the SMSM determined to ostracise 78% of the football attending, paying public?  The answer is, of course, is that it’s the non attending/paying public they are targeting, it’s all just fodder to be sucked up during tea break with little or no intellectual effort required.  As for the fact that fitba is nothing without the fans; feck the fans. 


  50. RayCharlez 19th November 2015 at 1:14 am # http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14040737.Craig_Whyte_could_get___6m_from_claim_on_Rangers_oldco_creditors_pot/ Craig Whyte could get £6m from claim on Rangers oldco creditors pot
    A CLAIM over the whole of the £18 million creditors payout pot of the liquidated Rangers oldco could earn Craig Whyte £6 million, it has emerged. The company formed by Craig Whyte to buy the club off Sir David Murray for £1 four years ago, is taking legal action over the claim which has been rejected by liquidators. Rangers FC Group, formerly Wavetower, is now contesting the decision by liquidators BDO through the Court of Session. The Rangers FC Group has taken over the claim from Law Financial Ltd, a company previously linked to Whyte, that it is owed up to £25 million, saying it holds the security over the assets of the in-liquidation Rangers oldco RFC 2012 plc. The Herald revealed last month that new documents show that LFL had now taken control of Rangers FC Group which held the security. New documents show that ultimate controllers of LFL and the action are the Worthington Group, an investment firm also once connected to Mr Whyte and who in October last year said would continue to stake a legal claim over Rangers’ business and assets. Worthington Group plc, confirmed in filings two years ago, that when it had the option of purchasing a 100 per cent stake in LFL, it was obliged to pay Whyte £1 million in unsecured convertible loan notes and one third of the proceeds of any assets, claims or rights owned by his companies. An interim £10 million payout to unsecured creditors of the in-liquidation oldco was due to have been made at the end of July to the tune of around seven pence, but it is still held up. The claim if successful, would make Rangers FC Group the only secured creditor and first in line ahead of HMRC, despite last week’s victory in the Big Tax Case involving Employment Benefit Trust payments to former Rangers staff. It has been confirmed that Rangers FC Group have begun a Court of Session appeal against the BDO decision to reject the claim. Both sides have until December 28 to make clear the extent of the appeal and for BDO to lodge answers to that. BDO has previously asked the court to dispense with the any potentially time consuming and potentially expensive future hearings to settle the issue and approve a deadline for a full claim to be submitted to the liquidators. The liquidators had previously indicated to creditors that if the claim was pursued, as it has been, it could hold up payouts for some time. Rangers FC Group says they hold the security over the assets reassigned to the company run by Mr Whyte that paid off an £18m bank debt as a condition of his purchase of the club from Sir David Murray for £1 in May 2011. He raised funds by organising a deal to sell off three years of future season ticket rights to Ticketus activated when he became owner. Mr Whyte said his company had a legitimate claim over Rangers’ assets, including Ibrox Stadium and Murray Park, because he had underwritten the London ticket agency Ticketus’s investment through his offshore company Liberty Capital and was “on the line” for £27.5m in guarantees and cash. Filings show that Craig Whyte is no longer a director of Rangers FC Group, and the four directors are Worthington Group executives Doug Ware and Richard Spurway, LFL and Liberty Corporate. Craig Whyte’s father, Thomas Whyte, was the sole director of Liberty Corporate until January, 2014. It is now controlled by LFL. Mr Whyte was a founding director of LFL, which claimed to have former Rangers newco Sevco 5088 as a subsidiary, but stood down from the board in August, last year.   In April, 2013, Worthington revealed it had been granted an option to acquire the whole of Law Financial Ltd which included Sevco 5088, which it said held a claim “independently reviewed by leading counsel…to all of the business and assets of RFC 2012 plc which were purchased by Sevco 5088 Limited or Sevco Scotland Ltd from the administrators… in June of 2012”.BDO declined to comment on the case. Worthington director Richard Spurway refused to comment.————-So if Worthington win and the assets ever revert back to BDO then Worthington could end up owning Ibrox.
    _________________________________-

    Appears to me that the Bampots who maintained that there was some impediment over Ibrox, preventing it’s use as security for loans, were correct.

    Beginning to look like there’s more claims over Ibrox than there are trophies won by TRFC 21. Perhaps yet another world record!


  51. Green did his research into what his potential season ticket purchasers would swallow swallow (Ally tellt him) so he dug his heels in re title stripping. After all, no ticket sales = waste of time and money. A basket of assets with no membership/license = waste of time and money. At a guess I would say that Green was prepared to walk away on this and cut his losses.. 
       It takes the conversation away from the governing bodies being poor “negotiators” and “rule applicators”, moving it slightly to the side of being desperate to have a club in blue playing out of Ibrox, Possibly even to the extent of being a driving force.  At the very least a willing and compliant “partner”. 
        If you still haven’t written to your club yet, think about this….. 40% of the secret 5wa signatories are still in office, 20% received an excessive golden handshake in dubious, and as yet unexplained circumstances, and 40% of them are facing criminal charges of a very serious nature. 
        This document, signed by two current office bearers will almost undoubtedly feature in lengthy criminal proceedings. The very nature of this document even points to the possibility that when it does feature, the courtroom will be cleared, such is it’s secret veil.
        If you are not troubled in the least, by the fact that a secret document exists at all, between a club and our governing bodies, then consider that one of these clubs systematically cheated our sport, and everyone in it, for more than a decade, and the other club was founded by spivs and possibly, what will be termed, an organised crime gang.
        That is what the 40% have signed up to in the name of you and I. 


  52. Forgive me if i’m wrong but didn’t Charles Green say that he never signed the 5 way agreement. If that’s the case then what legal or Enforceable standing does it have, plus if its so secret why are so many copies of it in the public domain >? 


  53. Corrupt official 19th November 2015 at 11:24 am
    ==================================

    It’s interesting that you bring up the alleged involvement in organised crime. The way the law is written the person does not actually have to do something which in and of itself is illegal, if it is proven that the act was done as part of organised crime.

    28 Involvement in serious organised crime
    (1)A person who agrees with at least one other person to become involved in serious organised crime commits an offence.
    (2)Without limiting the generality of subsection (1), a person agrees to become involved in serious organised crime if the person—
    (a)agrees to do something (whether or not the doing of that thing would itself constitute an offence), and
    (b)knows or suspects, or ought reasonably to have known or suspected, that the doing of that thing will enable or further the commission of serious organised crime.
    (3)For the purposes of this section and sections 29 to 31—
    “serious organised crime” means crime involving two or more persons acting together for the principal purpose of committing or conspiring to commit a serious offence or a series of serious offences,“serious offence” means an indictable offence—
    (a) committed with the intention of obtaining a material benefit for any person, or(b) which is an act of violence committed or a threat made with the intention of obtaining such a benefit in the future, and “material benefit” means a right or interest of any description in any property, whether heritable or moveable and whether corporeal or incorporeal.
    (4)A person guilty of an offence under subsection (1) is liable—
    (a)on conviction on indictment, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 10 years or to a fine or to both,
    (b)on summary conviction, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 12 months or to a fine not exceeding the statutory maximum or to both.


  54. Homunculus 19th November 2015 at 12:28 pm #Corrupt official 19th November 2015 at 11:24 am==================================
    It’s interesting that you bring up the alleged involvement in organised crime. The way the law is written the person does not actually have to do something which in and of itself is illegal, if it is proven that the act was done as part of organised crime. 
       ———————————————————————————-
       We have seen that the governing bodies have been careful to keep a distance from important decisions. LNS and PM to name two such occasions.  If there is actual signed copies of the 5WA, then these cannot be considered to be in any way at arms length. It may be the only such direct indicator of what truly took place. 
        It may not prove anything illegal, but if I was the judge…………. Well lets just say that is probably why I am not a judge.   
        tbh  It is not so much an agreement….More like a secret pact. 


  55.  The Herald’s report (which as far as I can see contains nothing that we did not already know)was presumably triggered by the fact that the ‘petition’ was being looked at by Lord Woolman the other day.
    I wondered whether the Press had been given information about how Lord Woolman had dealt with the ‘petition’ on Tuesday, which, as I posted, was not dealt with in open court.
    So , I’ve just rung the Petitions Office to ask (0131 240 6747, Petition Number 1127/15).
    The admin officer I spoke to explained that only those with an ‘interest’ ( that is,  parties to the business) would be directly informed of the Judge’s decision on the procedural  matters relating to the Petition, because it was a matter dealt with in private, not in open court.
    No one other than the parties involved would have had sight of the petition itself.
    The officer said the procedural matter was routine, and not related to the fixing of dates for a hearing , or anything of that kind.
    I suppose we can conclude from the fact of the Herald’s report that at least the Petition wasn’t dismissed out of hand as being groundless!


  56. Corrupt official 19th November 2015 at 12:50 pm
    ‘… It may not prove anything illegal, but if I was the judge…’
    _____
    A totally idle and random question: is it likely that the SFA and the SPFL carry ‘Directors’ and Officers’ insurance  in respect of legal expenses…?


  57. John Clark 19th November 2015 at 1:03 pm #Corrupt official 19th November 2015 at 12:50 pm‘… It may not prove anything illegal, but if I was the judge…’_____A totally idle and random question: is it likely that the SFA and the SPFL carry ‘Directors’ and Officers’ insurance  in respect of legal expenses…?
     ============================================
       I hope so ! Either that or Ashley having them in court in February is going to cost Scottish fitba’ clubs (indirectly, the fans) a pretty penny. It does appear to be an industry standard form of protection…….Having said that, I dunno, and wouldn’t know how to find out. 


  58. Big Pink18th November 2015 at 10:33 am# Yet another lazy journalist plays the sectarian card. Tired, Predictable, Irrelevant, Incorrect. _______________________________

    Tired, Ridiculous, Incorrect, Predictable, Excrement.

    i.e. TRIPE

    By the way, if the religious dimension had any relevance – which it doesn’t – surely it would be some form of self-loathing type hatred as a majority of fans of all other teams of any religious persuasion are likely to be Protestant too. Just shows how warped and delusional this kind of “thinking” is.


  59. @morecelticparanoia

    FWIW
    Scotland’s religious demographic according to the 2011 Census:
    No Religion – 36.7%
    Church of Scotland – 32.4%
    Roman Catholic – 15.9%
    Other Christian – 5.5%
    Other religions – 2.5%
    Didn’t answer – 7%

    So you’re right, the vast majority of Scotland (84.1%) is not Catholic, which I suspect we all knew, so the loathing of Rangers must include a fair whack of protestants such as myself.


  60. Corrupt official 19th November 2015 at 12:37 am #…    And if you haven’t written to your club yet,…. Away and do it now! You know you won’t have time tomorrow, Go and get a pen……Its under the cushion beside the remote…
    ====================
    Done.
    Only took about 2 minutes to ping off a brief email to register my concerns about the LNS Commission to my club – and requesting that the matter is taken up with the SFA on the fans’ behalf.
    No excuse Bampots !
    ===================
    peterjung 19th November 2015 at 6:40 am #

    While I am here…..why has no one asked any serious questions on why Graeme Souness was getting paid by Rangers via an EBT 10 years after leaving the club…..I am convinced there are some very dark goings on indeed behind all of this…. and this is the real reason why there is such a concerted effort going on for everyone to forget about this and move on…..”
    ===================
    Yes, I think most Bampots would like an answer to that puzzle.
    Maybe there are 2 reasons for not asking;
    1) The SMSM ‘journalists’ 23 are simply too scared to ask Souness ? [Sheep].
    or
    2) As you suggest, the whole EBT circus could actually prove to be a relatively small can of worms compared to other goings on in Scottish football in the past ?

    Only speculating of course, but in this saga, anything is possible. 


  61. Further CoS hearings re the MASH & Ashley petitions on Tuesday.

    LADY WOLFFE – R Martin, Clerk
    Tuesday 24th November
    By Order
     P989/15 Pet: Michael Ashley for Judicial Review – Brodies LLP – Burness Paull LLP 
    P1039/15 Pet: Mash Holdings Ltd for Judicial Review – Brodies LLP – Anderson Strathern LLP  Burness Paull LLP


  62. StevieBC 19th November 2015 at 4:00 pm

    Done.Only took about 2 minutes to ping off a brief email to register my concerns about the LNS Commission to my club – and requesting that the matter is taken up with the SFA on the fans’ behalf.No excuse Bampots !
      ————————————————————————————
    Appreciated Stevie   19


  63. Just a thought re the Ashley petitions.  I wonder if Lady Sarah Wolffe QC is related to James Wolffe QC who defended RIFC against Green’s legal fee claim last week. Anyone know?


  64. Looks like Warburton has PR skills all of his own !
    Apologies if referenced already, but a rather complimentary piece by Ian Ladyman in the Daily Mail yesterday [I know it is an awful rag these days].
    Warburton generating some useful exposure down south ?
    A few gems from the article ;

    “…Warburton, 53, is an analytical man. He would not have taken this job had his own research not told him Rangers were no longer the basketcase club of recent years…”  10

    “…”It amazes me that clubs will scrimp and save on a staff position — pay someone £25,000 a year —but will put a player on 12 grand a week.”…”
    21 Would never happen at ‘Rangers’.

    “…After some torrid recent times — financial irregularities saw Rangers enter administration in 2012 and start again in the fourth tier — this great club are inching forward again…”  
    Yawn.

    “…’I have never been to an Old Firm game,’ Warburton told Sportsmail, ‘but when I was thinking about the job my son showed me something on YouTube. Rangers fans singing their song at a Celtic match. James just said, “Dad, look at this. You have to go there”…”

    This ‘song’ was referenced several times in the article, but was never identified.
    Answers on a postcard. 


  65. easyJambo 19th November 2015 at 4:44 pm #
    Just a thought re the Ashley petitions.  I wonder if Lady Sarah Wolffe QC is related to James Wolffe QC who defended RIFC against Green’s legal fee claim last week. Anyone know?
    ________________________

    The Wolffes are at the door! Run sheep, run 232323

    I’ll get my coat…


  66. easyJambo 19th November 2015 at 4:44 pm #Just a thought re the Ashley petitions.  I wonder if Lady Sarah Wolffe QC is related to James Wolffe QC who defended RIFC against Green’s legal fee claim last week. Anyone know?

    Husband and wife.
    http://www.journalonline.co.uk/News/1013461.aspx#.Vk4BWHbhCUk

    USA-born, Mrs Wolffe qualified as a solicitor in 1992 and called to the bar in 1994, practising mainly in commercial and public law. Since 2007 she has been an ad hoc advocate depute. She was appointed QC in 2008. She was a member of the Disciplinary Tribunal of the Faculty of Advocates from 2005 from 2008 and has been a member of the Police Appeals Tribunal since 2013. She is married to the current Vice Dean of Faculty, James Wolffe QC.


  67. Allyjambo 19th November 2015 at 5:02 pm #easyJambo 19th November 2015 at 4:44 pm #Just a thought re the Ashley petitions.  I wonder if Lady Sarah Wolffe QC is related to James Wolffe QC who defended RIFC against Green’s legal fee claim last week. Anyone know?________________________
    The Wolffes are at the door! Run sheep, run
    I’ll get my coat…
    ===================
    Well, since you started it…

    If this couple had taken up sports journalism in Scotland, rather than the law…

    would they now be referred to as the ‘Wolffes in sheep’s clothing’ ???

    I’ll get my crook… 23 


  68. Corrupt official 19th November 2015 at 1:21 pm #
    John Clark 19th November 2015 at 1:03 pm
    Insurance, mibbees aye mibbees naw (copyright KD)19
     
    http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/resources/documents/SFAPublications/ScottishFAPublications2014-15/Handbook%202014-15..pdf
     

     (27) To effect insurances against risk of loss to the Association, or against risk or
    accident to any servants of the Association in the course of their employment by
    the Association, and to pay premiums on any such insurance.
    70.3 Without prejudice to the provisions of Article 70.1, the Board shall have the power to
    purchase and maintain insurance for or for the benefit of any persons who are or were
    at any time Honorary Office-Bearers, Office-Bearers, Directors, ordinary members of the
    Council, co-opted persons, Secretary, Chief Executive or other officer or employee of the
    Scottish FA, or of any other company in which the Scottish FA or any of the predecessors
    of the Scottish FA has any interest, whether direct or indirect, or which is in any way
    allied to or associated with the Scottish FA, or of any subsidiary undertaking of the
    Scottish FA or of any such other company, or who are or were at any time trustees of any
    pension fund in which any employees of the Scottish FA or of any such other company or
    subsidiary undertaking are interested, including insurance against any liability incurred by
    such persons in respect of any act or omission in the actual or purported execution and/or
    discharge of their duties and/or in the exercise or purported exercise of their powers and/
    or otherwise in relation to their duties, powers or offices in relation to the Scottish FA or
    any such other company, subsidiary undertaking or pension fund

    Whether they have a policy or not, probably depends if they read  any of these?07
    “The objects for which the Association is established are:-“
    Of which 27 above is one,.


  69. StevieBC 19th November 2015…….
    I’ll get my crook…   
    _____________________________
    Lots to choose from (allegedly).
    Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.

Comments are closed.