Look Back to Look Forward

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HomunculusApril 6, 2016 at 12:25  NAWLITE APRIL 6, 2016 at 11:51 …

Comment on Look Back to Look Forward by Allyjambo.

HomunculusApril 6, 2016 at 12:25 
NAWLITE APRIL 6, 2016 at 11:51 2 0 Rate This
They refused to answer my follow up asking how the club was separate.
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They cannot answer it because it simply isn’t true. The club merely changed the type of entity it was. It’s all there in the history.
Four young chaps had a dream and started a football team. That team became a members club (1872) and in the fullness of time it changed into a private limited company (1899). The private limited company then went public, floated on the stock exchange and became a public limited company (2000). For absolute clarity at the time that PLC failed to obtain a CVA and was placed into (ongoing) liquidation (2012) it did have a holding company. Wavetower (as was) owned something like 85% of the shares in the PLC.
They will not answer the question because they do not like the honest answer. They are more fond of the myth Charles Green created, the separate club / company. The continuity myth is strong because it suits a lot of agendas, it being a lie is just an uncomfortable truth. There was no point at which the PLC owned the Club, it’s just nonsense.
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And that myth of Charles Green’s was created by a man now reviled by every bear in the world as the lying cheat who should never be trusted. The man who, through his counsel in a recent court case, confirmed to us all that he didn’t buy Rangers Football Club, he just bought a basket of assets. This went unchallenged in court and was reaffirmed at a later trial where the judge laughed the same club notion out of court.

In different circumstances I would be amazed at how people, who all stated Rangers FC had died, and clearly believed the club had died, could have their minds changed in an instant, by a man of no legal standing, then, knowing him to be a lying cheat, continue to accept one of his lies as the truth, without question!

It’s quite understandable why the Rangers supporters would want to believe this lie. Those who accept and promote it it because it is convenient to them, however, and particularly those who are in positions of trust, such as the SMSM and football authorities, by their continuance of this lie are as bad as Green himself!

If TRFC was indeed Rangers FC, then it would be very easy for a member of the media to put together an article or documentary that explores the issue and proves the same club argument. It would be a widely read, or viewed, article and very cost effective and make those involved very popular with those they wish to be popular with. It would be one way of helping Scottish football to ‘move on’. There can be only one reason why this has not been, and never will be, done! I am certain, though, that a number of hacks, perhaps some journalists, have looked at the possibility of doing something like this, but have found that the article likely to be produced would not be all that popular with those they wish to be popular with!

Allyjambo Also Commented

Look Back to Look Forward
tayredApril 6, 2016 at 11:13 
Allyjambo – fair do’s. I may well have heard it wrong, probably still in shock from hearing the ‘L’ word. Interesting that that word was dropped from the final bulletin. I wonder if the BBC had been receiving calls….
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I think it’s all a bit like Spiers and English. Prepared to tell some of the truth, then ‘balance’ it out with an (accepted within the media) mild untruth.

‘The Rangers are back’ mantra, while very annoying to those who know the reality, could argue to be referring to the spirit of Rangers if ever questioned; an idea that might be acceptable to us all if everything else was admitted, and so even journalists of some integrity might be happy to use it as a way of making their piece more striking. The bears, I think, have managed to convince themselves that liquidation is no biggie, and so are prepared to accept the odd mention as long as the statement isn’t about NC/OC and is, in fact, in celebration of their club. This allows them to claim they (the Spiers/English style media) are even handed while giving the impression of being more intelligent than the run-of-the-mill sports hacks.

In truth, I do expect that the National BBC presenters are working from scripts largely prepared from information passed on by BBC Scotland and couldn’t care enough to question how it could be that a liquidated club can ‘come back’ anywhere! They are, of course, more bothered about how they look on screen (both male and female) than getting the truth out there, and will have spent more time in makeup and practicing their delivery, than researching this, or any other, news item.


Look Back to Look Forward
tayredApril 6, 2016 at 08:32 
ALLYJAMBOAPRIL 6, 2016 at 07:59 Big oxymoron on the BBC news this morning! Correctly informing the public that ‘Rangers’ entered administration and were (in the process of, actually) liquidated, then including the old ‘returning to the Premiership’ nonsense.————————————————-Maybe I heard it wrong but I was shocked when on National TV the mentioned administration followed by the clear use of the word liquidation – I didn’t hear them use any words such as return though. Cut to the Scottish news, no use of return until Derek Ferguson comes on and perhaps deliberately only states that “fans will see it as a return to where they belong”. 
Perhaps, just perhaps, our message has got through to the BBC. I don’t for one minute think the BBC have changed their viewpoint, but maybe they advising to cut out the obvious use of “return to where the belong” as the number of complaints was going to arouse interest from the beaks upstairs?
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Sorry to spoil it for you, but I live in England so don’t suffer BBC Scotland, and the lady introducing the ‘Rangers’ story described them as having gone into administration and then liquidation. She then told us they were back in the top tier. I heard this at least three times this morning as the ‘story’ was repeated about every half hour. Later the story was introduced by another lady presenter with a mention of administration but the liquidation part was missed out! Admittedly I didn’t hear each and every introduction and switched off before, no doubt, at least two more re-introductions of the story.

It was all handled as though ‘Rangers’ had suffered a misfortune and had, as in some fairy tale, shrugged off adversity and, without outside (SFA/SPFL) help, without MSM help, had managed to create a same club belief that fooled non-Rangers men into investing money in RIFC. Money that has now all been spent on the most expensive football team ever to grace (did I say grace?) the lower levels of Scottish football. And, of course, no mention of the disastrous , year on year, annual losses – the greatest losses ever in the lower levels of Scottish football.

Now, I admit it would be churlish to suggest that the winning of the Championship should be downplayed by all the negative truths, but those negative truths should surely induce a more subdued ‘congratulations to (The) Rangers’ from all the media, especially those not reliant on ‘the blue pound’ and currently indulging themselves in a moral frenzy over those who cheat the taxman and hide their money abroad!

On the impression the media give Joe public down here.

I’ve just returned to work after a holiday, and just before I left, one of my colleagues talked to me about ‘Rangers’ ‘returning to the top’, he seemed to think it was a real feat. Despite me putting him right, he started again about this ‘feat’ yesterday.

To be honest, the legal and financial stuff was way above his head, and he does support Chelsea and seems to see a connect with a ‘big club’, and his eyes glazed over quite quickly, but he did come away with one pertinent point. He, just like all ‘ordinary’ fans, just wants to talk about the football and couldn’t care less about anything else*. He genuinely isn’t interested in any cheating, and even shrugged off our separate discussion of the recent doping scandals, particularly those surrounding Leicester together with the claim that they are getting help from certain refs, for the same reason. I suspect, though, if it was Chelsea and not Spurs and Arsenal chasing Leicester, he’d have been adamant that cheating was going on.

* A situation many have pointed to here and elsewhere on the internet.

To be honest, while we may mock the useless MSM coverage of the Rangers scandal, it’s been job well done down here, where ignorance is truly bliss!


Look Back to Look Forward
upthehoopsApril 6, 2016 at 07:12 
IANAGAINAPRIL 5, 2016 at 22:40 Well the Clumpany did warn us.Its going to be full on P*** for months.DO one thing motivate your club whoever they are to skelp them at every possible opportunity and send them straight back down.Its the only way you will feel better.Nothing agin Sevco  supporters BTW its the media needs curtailed and the only way this will stop is they get humped non stop. ================================
I have never subscribed to the view the media can’t influence what is happening in the game. I certainly don’t believe some Celtic fans would have booed Fergus McCann had the media not compared him so unfavourably to David Murray. Yet McCann had to run his club honestly within its means while Murray had the full might of the Bank of Scotland behind his. 
Next season the media will do everything in their power to ensure any influence they can have will help Rangers win the league. It’s going to be a very dirty game and no matter who the Celtic Manager is he’ll need a thick skin, as will his players. The Aberdeen Manager may be another who finds he’s not quite as popular as he is now if he threatens to rain on the Ibrox parade. For Aberdeen read Hearts or any other club. Whether it’s bias, fear, or for commercial reasons it is surely beyond doubt now the media only want a successful club from Ibrox ruling over all others. 
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Seems to me that the media are also influencing potential sponsors by painting as positive a picture as possible and creating a fairy tale ‘return’ aura to the story to deflect from the truth of a club that has bought three promotions by outspending all rival clubs massively, while creating huge debts (the biggest in the league) and massive losses (the biggest in the league).

Big oxymoron on the BBC news this morning! Correctly informing the public that ‘Rangers’ entered administration and were (in the process of, actually) liquidated, then including the old ‘returning to the Premiership’ nonsense.


Recent Comments by Allyjambo

It Is Better To Offer No Excuse Than A Bad One
Big PinkJanuary 2, 2018 at 13:54 
AJI suspect the TDs are not from SFM folk (remember the ratings are available to all manner of trolls). It is a disgusting world-view if made in earnest. A shocking way to score a point if not.
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I didn’t, for a moment, suspect they were from anyone who posts here, even the more prolific troll posters are better than that, I am sure. 

For some time now I have had the feeling that there is someone, or some people, coming on here and just TDing a number of posts without bothering to read their content, either out of malice or as some sort of concerted effort on behalf of people with reason to dislike our message. It really is quite strange how, suddenly, a number of posts receive one, two or occasionally three thumbs down in very short order, and often posts like uth’s, that could offend no one, receive these petty TDs as a result. 

I can honestly say that I have never read anything from our regular, or occasional, posters that might suggest they would TD anything relating to that terrible day. I include, of course, all supporters of Celtic and RFC/TRFC who have, over the years, made their arguments on SFM. My experience of Celtic supporters talking of that day is one that leaves me certain in the knowledge that only the basest of their support (and we all have them) were not badly effected by the disaster and in full sympathy with the deceased, their families and the wider Rangers support. 

I can still remember that night, sitting in the Queens Arms in Edinburgh, watching the death count rising on the TV, waiting for one of our mates we knew was at the game, getting more and more nervous until he appeared. It had a lasting effect on me.


It Is Better To Offer No Excuse Than A Bad One
upthehoopsJanuary 2, 2018 at 08:52 29 2
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On this day in 1971, the Ibrox disaster happened during a Rangers v Celtic game at Ibrox. 66 fans died in a crush. Some of us remember that day, some of us may even have been there, while some of us would not even be on this earth at the time. We are all football fans. Nobody should go to a football match and never return home. Rest in Peace.
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Wow! I know we are not meant to put much store on the thumbs up or down, but two people have given thumbs down to this post! Who on earth could find fault with a post respecting the dead from the Ibrox disaster?

It kind of confirms my belief that there are people coming onto this site who don’t read the posts, but are assigned with the task of creating the appearance that there is some disagreement with posts that mostly criticise Rangers(IL) and TRFC and hit the TD button without thought.

Alternatively, of course, it could just be that others, like myself, have difficulty hitting the correct symbol on tablets or mobile phones, I certainly hope that is the case here.

Thanks to Upthehoops for reminding us of that sad day, something we should do every year as a mark of respect for those who died on Scottish football’s worst day.


It Is Better To Offer No Excuse Than A Bad One
DarkbeforedawnJanuary 2, 2018 at 03:48 
Stevie BC, the issue with declaring himself bankrupt is it stops him holding any director role in a company in the UK and possibly South Africa. I can’t see him doing that “for the sake of the club”. I think like Murray before him he likes the limelight. He knows very well the best option for the club would be resign as any acting party in the club and still provide the soft loans. It would take all scrutiny away from the club and could leave the chairman role to someone more respected such as Alistair Johnston. That would stop the risk of the TOP ruling having such a huge impact on the club. It’s the selfless and obvious choice to make and he could still be seen as the saviour from abroad saving the club through loans, but he wouldn’t get the same exposure he so much craves. His defiance is what will lead to his downfall and his selfishness could lead lead to the downfall of the club.
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DBD, though I used your above post to highlight the impossibility of separating club from company, I have to agree, to some extent, with the thrust of the post. While I am not sure that by declaring himself bankrupt that King could escape the wrath of the TOP and CoS, he isn’t going to do anything for the benefit of your club if it doesn’t benefit him, or save him, at the same time.

That said, however, King’s ‘ownership’ of the NOAL Trust was established in court to the judge’s satisfaction, and I doubt that he would get away with making further loans to RIFC plc through it or any other hidden avenue, once declared bankrupt. Indeed, despite my limited knowledge of bankruptcy laws, I am certain that King (or anyone else) can’t just announce bankruptcy and clear themselves of all fiscal responsibilities, they have to prove they have no money to meet their debts, and as far as we know, King doesn’t have any – and if he had, the court would make sure the funds in his NOAL Trust would be used to meet them, as far as possible, with, I am sure, an investigation into what other (disguised)investments he holds. One thing’s for sure, he would not be allowed to ‘lend’ any money to RIFC/TRFC, and, if he does, indeed, have substantial debts, his creditors might well force the return of his existing RIFC loans to meet his debts.

One thing’s for sure, the law will not allow someone to avoid the consequences of breaking the laws and regulations of the land by availing one’s self of the laws of bankruptcy! While a little tax cheating scrote like Barry Ferguson might get away with transferring his assets to his wife, just prior to receiving his tax bill, King and his money are already on the court’s radar and I doubt that even his Masonic connections would be enough to let him get away with further fraudulent behaviour.

Something I am sure of, and has to be considered before wondering if bankruptcy is a way out for both/either King or RIFC, and that is – you have to have debts that you demonstrably can’t meet before you can petition for bankruptcy. Unless King has very substantial debts, that outweigh, at least, the funds held in the NOAL Trust, then he has no grounds to declare himself bankrupt.


It Is Better To Offer No Excuse Than A Bad One
DarkbeforedawnJanuary 2, 2018 at 03:48 
Stevie BC, the issue with declaring himself bankrupt is it stops him holding any director role in a company in the UK and possibly South Africa. I can’t see him doing that “for the sake of the club”. I think like Murray before him he likes the limelight. He knows very well the best option for the club would be resign as any acting party in the club and still provide the soft loans. It would take all scrutiny away from the club and could leave the chairman role to someone more respected such as Alistair Johnston. That would stop the risk of the TOP ruling having such a huge impact on the club. It’s the selfless and obvious choice to make and he could still be seen as the saviour from abroad saving the club through loans, but he wouldn’t get the same exposure he so much craves. His defiance is what will lead to his downfall and his selfishness could lead lead to the downfall of the club.
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Hi, DBD, and a Happy New Year to you.

While your recent posts have been pretty good, showing a realistic approach to what’s happening at your club, might I ask how it could be that the chairman of RIFC’s selfishness, and I presume you include his dishonesty in that, could lead to your club’s downfall, if, as you’ve previously claimed, the club is separate from the company? Surely, in your belief structure, it would only be the company, TRFC Ltd, that would ‘fall down’, and the club would just sit around, responsible for none of the inherent financial chicanery of the ‘overspend our way to success’ ethos that permeates at Ibrox, until some new ‘football company’ is set up to carry the can again!

I know it’s a bit early in the year to reintroduce the OC/NC debate, but I am wondering if you’ve, perhaps, come to realise that the idea that a football club can, for some skewed reason, escape the consequences of it’s own greed, is pretty ludicrous?


It Is Better To Offer No Excuse Than A Bad One
ODDJOBJANUARY 1, 2018 at 13:42
Allyjambo,Thanks.I also suspect that the assignation of ” ra deeds” would provoke an angry response in some quarters
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And I suspect that the assignation of ‘ra deeds’, should it ever come to pass, might well be the last throw of the dice! What’s more, once any assets are used as security, it reduces the amount the current lenders are likely to get in the event of liquidation. It may well be that the directors, who are now refusing to give more loans, have, rather than reached the end of their free funds, decided that the lending has reached a level greater than, or close to, the total value of the group’s assets.

It’s one thing lending without security when in a position to ensure there is enough in the pot to, more or less, cover the amount of the loans, it’s an altogether different thing once someone else gets that security!

Whatever the accounts give as a value for the fixed and current assets, the directors will all have a very good idea of the realisable value of those assets (particularly the heritable asset value), and should total creditors begin to outstrip that value, they may well begin to wonder if it’s time to call in the administrators. Granting security over some of the heritable assets would only hasten the moment for unpleasant decisions.

If PMGB is correct in saying King is looking out for loans secured on the club’s heritable assets, then I am certain that the rest of the directors would carry out proper due diligence on the potential lenders before granting any security. Not that they have any dodgy characters in their midst, or anything, just that they are canny businessmen.


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