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Everyone on this site has football experiences, views, stories and opinions. Everyone also wants things to be better in the future too. These are bonds that make us who we are and this forum what it is.
I’ll share a few experiences with you now.
I will never forget an impromptu and inspirational 60 minute Q. and A. masterclass by Davie MacParland to a group of relative youngsters at Hampden in 1975 after Scottish Unis had played a friendly with his team.
It was “over the moon Brian” time for me on finding a £5 note in my shoe. This was after I played my first game (unexpectedly) as an S form in the Highland League when my club’s Aberdeen-based players had been held up by a road incident.
So happy and corrupted was I that I never questioned the widespread practice of giving money to amateur players thereafter so I’m part of the problem.
I also sat next to a young Jim Leyton who came to Butchart to watch himself on a match video after he had let in two goals when we dumped Deveronvale (where he was on loan) out of the Aberdeenshire Cup. It was the very early days of video and Jim had never seen himself on a tv before.
Every person in the SFM community will have equally diverse and interesting experiences and I’m going to share one more with you now in a little more detail.
In the mid 90s I was given an amazing insight into how Scottish football really worked. In many ways it hasn’t changed much since.
Back then I was part of a small group brought in to help find funding for the upgrade of Tynecastle with the urgent need to construct three new stands. At the time it was a massive requirement for a very financially challenged organisation and at a push there were potentially just about enough pots of monies available from several sources to trigger the investment from the Football Trust and squeak over the line.
The most critical pot was mobilising the fans.
My role was to find a way of getting them to come aboard working with some fine lifetime Hearts fans like the late Alex Kitson so it would all look like a Hearts Community rather than a Mercer initiative.
The then, colourful Hearts majority owner was under constant pressure on other fronts at the time.
The team was not really performing with relatively new manager Jim Jeffries trying to get best out of predecessor Tommy Mclean’s mixed bag of old pros and kids. Making things worse was a growing, highly critical and very vocal consortium of local business people trying to get Mercer out (and themselves in).
I guess you could say in today’s parlance that they were RHM and civil war was very much happening down Gorgie way.
Anyway I can’t now recall all the detail and apologies if my memories have fused a little but a key AGM type meeting for Hearts shareholders at Ingliston was coming up and there was an agenda that looked like it might hurt “The Chairman” as Wallace liked to be called.
Never any flies on him though, he had seen the danger signs and was ready in his own way.
He turned up with his trusted few and simply yet quite brilliantly hijacked the negative agenda and ignored the real issues. He didn’t have a solution for them and couldn’t implement the changes that were in reality needed but quite simply he kicked all the trouble into the long grass.
He did this because he fundamentally understood that most shareholders in the room were just ordinary football fans and wanted nothing more than to be able to talk about football the game, Hearts their club, who they were due to play next and who would be playing.
It was that simple.
Mercer’s message to all that night was “Yes things have been tough but our best possible future is with me”.
He rammed this home by confidently telling the assembled body that Hearts were on the up because we had a new manager who needed time and then blew everyone away by announcing he just signed three amazing new players for them, Giles Rousset, Bruno Pasquale and Hans Eskilsson. After the applause and mayhem died down he had won.
Bruno and Rousset were newsworthy in any Scottish football context one being a French International and the other an ex Juventus tough guy with a EUFA and a couple of Coppa Italia winners medals.
Oh and Eskilsson had amazing hair.
Mercer’s simple bit of insight, showmanship, brinksmanship, call it what you like, led to the survival of his regime.
In a parallel maybe to what the SFA did after their meeting with Craig at the Hotel Du Vin in Glasgow, Mercer had enough time to be ready for the trouble he knew was coming and used his power to ignore the real issues and the detail and move on with a big gamble.
Looking back Wallace got a lot right .
He understood what the majority of ordinary football fans wanted. He’d also learnt that good press was needed and came from feeding the football writers enough tasty exclusives so they’d look after him in a symbiotic relationship, the kind of relationship that remains much the same today.
Even back then in the days when there were less full-colour pages pre-allocated to certain teams to fill and more able journalists to fill them, the sports pages were about game reports and gossip rather than insight.
The packs of hacks all craved being handed tasty semi-exclusive stories.
It was and ever is thus and in those days the Daily Record was a wee gem with circulation nearer 700K than the 200K-ish today and amazingly all its costs were covered by it’s advertising revenue alone. The proud boast of Endell Laird was the purchase price was pure profit.
With hindsight Wallace may only have postponed the inevitable campaign by the RHM rebels that night at Ingliston. History tells us that the Robinson/Deans rebellion eventually forced their chance. They did have to dig much deeper financially than they ever wanted when their time eventually came, and soon fell out too, but that’s another story.
Wallace’s long grass was just never going to be deep enough to hide the issues he wanted to ignore but to his credit on his watch the stadium was upgraded and the first Scottish Cup since 1956 was paraded to the fans.
Mr. Mercer was an operator who like others before and since could see personal and business value in owning a club.
He cultivated friendly football writers.
He learned that the SFA could be difficult to deal with but much less so when you placed people on their various management boards. That was key to the inner power sanctums and brought you at best influence and at worst early warnings.
He may have been autocratic but knew you needed powerful friends at other clubs too and was always close with David Murray in particular.
So what has this little piece of retrospection and a handful of Finloch football stories got to do with a blog on SFM?
Last week I met Big Pink for the first time over a few coffees.
It was like meeting an old friend in the pub because of all the stuff we’ve lived through and shared over the last 5 or so years.
We talked about stuff and traded stories and opinions on life, football and about SFM what it does and what we are.
We got on to the subject of it’s future and with my business background he asked me to consider a piece for the blog about where the SFM, our fledgling business might go from here.
I maybe agreed too hastily because I have found it challenging to gather and spell out my thoughts.
So this is very much a starting couple of steps to bring in the SFM minds and set up future discussions following this blog and when we meet in Perth in April.
My starting point was to first consider what we are today.
It’s a personal view but to me SFM is a valued medium I come to most days. It’s for when I want to find out or to discuss what is happening.
It is populated with a bunch of people with different backgrounds, skills and insights, is always polite and often very funny.
I’d actually like to see more headline blogs because I enjoy them but our biggest value will always be analysis discussion and good humour.
SFM is fundamentally different to the MSM back pages that still offer us all a mono diet of whatever day-to-day gossip they have been spoon-fed by the Level 9’s of this world or made up and maybe embellished with a random phone call for a quote.
Yes their world is declining and will inevitably see fundamental restructure and change but that change has in reality nothing to do with how they cover and will continue to cover Scottish football.
I’d even posit (to use a wee word I’ve learned from the excellent JJ site I visit sometimes) that the red tops currently see their style of football coverage as a way of slowing their inevitable declines because it delivers the difficult to reach male audience their advertisers crave access to.
As a spectator I’d say the MSM in Scotland mostly seem to suffer from a polarised demographic focus/ bias too but that can never excuse their revisionism or the Spiers and Haggerty episodes we’ve just witnessed.
There is one benefit though. One you maybe hadn’t thought about from all the dreadful MSM football reportage.
The stuff they collectively generate enables all of us to have daily conversations with friends and strangers without actually saying anything about anything.
It gives us our daily top-up for the international language of football minutiae we all converse in every day.
I’ve been able to speak it fluently since I was in my teens. You know the kind of thing – the ins and outs, the ups and downs, the comings and goings and the toings and froings.
The good news, the bad news the made-up news – its all part of being involved with a team or indeed just being a football fan and it’s all conversation for the males of our species.
There are plenty of places I can and do get access to that kind of stuff but SFM isn’t and never has been a source.
I quickly found out that most of my pals don’t want to talk about side letters in the pub on a Friday, or the need for asterisked titles because they are more interested in tomorrow’s match and who will be out of contract at the end of the season.
Without being disrespectful in any way I think they are cut from the same wood as the majority of Mr. Mercer’s Hearts shareholders and if I’m honest part of me is too.
That has given our administrators and clubs too easy a ride.
Beyond the gossip it is fair to say in the last 40 or 50 years football has changed beyond all recognition.
It has become a source of power and money and as we know proverbially and in real life power can corrupt and money can be the root of all-evil.
The stuff happening at FIFA now can be no surprise to any fair-minded fan and I’d be inclined to think that there have been finagled decisions at the top for longer than the current stewardship of Mr. Blatter.
Way longer.
Football-land is a dirty world. A world where all the transparency is for show and real stuff has always been controlled and rewarding for those in the right places.
Closer to home football in Scotland is no different. Power and money have been the origins of our own North of the Border soap opera saga.
Its sometimes been very funny, often been entertaining too but is ultimately tragic and a sad indictment on our country.
Being Scotland nothing is ever as simple as it should be.
We started from a unique kind of place where for over a century we have had to live with an unhealthy, quasi-tribal, two-club duopolistic domination of all things football including the fans, the trophies, the money, the media attention and the administrators controlling our game.
The stark reality of 2016 is our biggest club/economy now finds its real ambitions thwarted, potentially forever, by its location in our restrictive league structure. It has nowhere currently to go and annoyingly the biggest league in the world is just over the border and part of the same country in political terms.
This is a destabilising influence on our game that won’t go away until change allows the next evolution.
Our second biggest economy as we now know had to cheat a little to keep up, post Fergus, and is now making its way back to the top end but with some truly nuclear baggage that I guess we still really only know the half of. Nothing will be simple in its return to what we’re told everyday is its rightful place. It too is a latent destabilising influence awaiting like a grumbling volcano.
What depresses me is the fact that the much-vaunted return of our dysfunctional duopoly is not a formula to recreate the European success we all took for granted for so long. Those days will never return.
The decline of the Scottish giant that was and is Rangers has dominated our thoughts because it encapsulates so much more than what is wrong with our game.
It is a huge business and establishment fall from grace. A shocking story that has become an elephant in the room to our politicians, our media and many of our fellow fans and is still playing out to deafening silence in some quarters.
In the manic run up to the decline of David Murray’s club we benefitted from insights from the seminal RTC and were bombarded with mass denials from almost everywhere else.
We witnessed the £1 sale to Craig Whyte, the subsequent McCoist European failure, the eventual slide into messy liquidation with tax issues etc.
Our administrators failed us all the way through because they had a different agenda.
Our MSM didn’t want to know partly because it involved more than regurgitating press releases and partly because it was real news for real reporters and not back pages gossip.
Their editors failed us there too, big time.
Now the revisionism and invention of the post-liquidation ephemeral club and company scenarios has been creative to say the least.
I remember Mr. Traynor’s initial headline and smile how he and others are now wading in a contradictory swamp of their own making. It’s all confusion when it needn’t be.
I only know the kind of stuff that really happened because of this site and its RTC predecessor.
Four or five years on and I think these guys (SFA, SPFL) acted like Wallace Mercer did at Ingliston and ran roughshod over process to “win”.
These well paid admin staff were never off-piste though and our clubs share complicity for their actions to varying degrees.
If I was Regan’s or Doncaster’s devil’s advocate I could just about comprehend that they acted because they feared for their TV revenues. The prospect of being without half of their duopoly ace card and the blue fans scared them and they were mandated by the clubs to maintain the status quo.
I don’t mean all the clubs but if we look at the key committee structures we’ll easily see who were in that inner sanctum at the time. They collectively decided to throw their rulebook out the window and there is no grass long enough to bury their collective actions because truth always outs.
Cast yourself back a few years not long before the St Valentine’s day 2012 news when the push was all for a 10 club league.
I remember Stewart Milne aggressively trying to sell us all a 10-club league because of the TV revenue it delivered (to the few).
At that time there seemed to be a collective “TV Gold Fever” prevailing in the cabal of top club chairmen that makes the real decisions and tells our administrators what to do.
Luckily they failed.
They nearly failed again too in 2012 with their tawdry 5 way agreement and we all owe a debt of gratitude to the late Turnbull Hutton whose personal integrity, bloody-mindedness and leadership meant a significant change to the premeditated 5 way plan that our top clubs had all signed off.
Since then we’ve all suffered from Armageddon and long may it stay.
SFM has been at the forefront of the last five years. A place where fans from all the clubs come together to question, analyse, give insight, balance, consciousness on all aspects of the meandering road that has been this story so far.
It’s all recorded on our archives somewhere too. We’ve noted and discussed the following and more –
- Two different signatures from the same club on the 5-way agreement
- Two different and concurrent memberships of the SFA
- Players TUPE-ing for free and no lawyers getting rich in trying to get them back
- Pre-season games being cancelled because of registration and insurance issues
- The Brechin game coming too soon for the paperwork
- The entry-round in The Ramsdens Cup for the old club or is it the new club?
- Record crowds, an even more aggressive songbook
- Ian Black getting a surprise call-up and a bit of a game to legitimise The New Rangers with their first cap
- Millions raised from a gullible city and desperate fans but still several last gasp saves needed to avoid new financial stramashes
- A charity that pays for holidays in America
- Quasi-legal stuff with dodgy parameters for questionable enquiries like Nimmo Smith
- Bryson and his logic that Spartans could and should have used to stay in the cup
- A “Hopelessly Conflicted Chairman” re-elected and a new one who has fitted in seamlessly
- Real legal stuff like HMRC appeals, and phrases like side-letters
- Charlotte Fakes and maybe even Fake Charlotte Fakes
- Fit and proper persons running our clubs
- Recorded conversations
- Onerous contracts
- Metaphysical concepts of what football clubs in our courts with big bucks being spent on our behalf by our administrators
There is and has been a whole lot more and more to come on the schedules too.
How much of this would I have found on our MSM?
Very little – so thanks to those who go the extra mile for us including John Clark, EasyJambo and others at the courts, Phil who will never go away, James Doleman and others too including JJ – all playing blinders where the hacks don’t dare.
Finally fast-forward to today.
Most Scottish fans probably know a little about the stuff I’ve touched upon and we’ve debated in depth. Not enough though.
But we have Darryl Broadfoot who is the SFA so we can all sleep rest assured each night.
Going forward we must address how we communicate as a medium to spread the word.
Ask yourself – Is what we do more important than knowing Rangers signed Dean Windass’s son from Accrington Stanley on a free because he’s going to play for England one day and stuff like that?
I’d say it is different although both have a place.
Our challenge is to create more impact with ours.
In finishing I have one serious starting proposal to make as a community but first a thank you.
Thank you to all the blog writers and posters because we have collectively created a site where real stuff can be dissected and discussed politely and in a non-partisan way.
Well done to the mods in particular and to our community In general
My simple proposal as our first step forward is to start a Wikipedia style library of the facts and keep it on our site.
Dates, happenings, people and all the stuff that will not allow any of it to stay buried forever in the long grass. The kind of detail that is in Auldheid’s amazing and resolute Resolution 12.
Chapter and verse whys and wherefores with dates and names.
This will achieve three things.
- It will create bedrock for us as a trusted media channel whatever we decide to become.
- It will put stuff factually into the public domain forever.
- It will contradict any highly paid revisionists trying to change what really happened for their own agendas into the future.
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John Clark 7th March 2016 at 9:32 pm
I get why some Celtic fans may not be overly with Delia given recent performances and to be frank the debate over his future may have happened regardless of who the club was meeting in the semi-final.
While I accept Warburton is viewed as getting it relatively easy at present, the problem is that, as was pointed out by someone the other week, that due to the bizarre amount of focus, attention and prominence given to our two biggest clubs to the detriment of all others, any manager of Celtic and Rangers/T’Rangers are only ever a few games away from a ‘crisis’. Especially if like Mr Deila and Paul Le Guen they are ‘outsiders’ who are seen to be struggling with the blood and guts of the Scottish game.
My guess is, despite the warm cuddles he has been getting recently, Warburton’s time will come soon enough.
There can’t be many leagues out there were the manager of a team in pole position for a league and cup double is under so much scrutiny.
People really need to take a chill pill and realize how good they have it.
Homunculus 7th March 2016 at 8:13 pm # With respect. you didn’t answer the question.
Homunculus 7th March 2016 at 5:34 pm #
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I understand the basis of your observation…but without cash flow details…they are pointless
Let me say straight away that i dont give a flying **** about the celtic/sevco result. i dont support either.
However, if the celtic supporters were minded they could do a very simple protest. Hold large cards up saying NEW CLUB. Alternatively CHEATS PROSPER. Or STRIP THE TITLES.
Add on a full 90 minute chorus of insults aimed againt the Sevco Silly Boys especially for the BBC lovers of all things Sevco.
Its only banter after all.
It is interesting that we have been given a look at the back of Dave King’s fag packet. As an unlisted company, RIFC is not required to issue interim accounts. Of course they’ve done nothing of the sort, they’ve just produced some sort of Income and Expenditure statement, with no balance sheet or cash flow statement. So much for double entry book keeping- sorry I wasted my time now.
But why, and why now? King’s policy so far has been to minimise the information emanating from the Blue Room. Now we suddenly get some unaudited and incomplete feel good figures. Is bad news on the way? I find that hard to believe. The Scottish cup run has brought in a lot of extra cash. Their cut of the Dundee game and the 2 Killie games must be close to a million pounds, with probably another half million from the semi. That is probably enough to meet the known funding gap until Season Ticket time in May.
Unless, of course, the £6.5million borrowed in late December is very short term, so more money is urgently required to repay it? Because this “report” has the feel of a company trying to reassure potential lenders that everything in the garden is rosy.
Personally, I wouldn’t lend a bent curdy to any company on the basis of an unaudited statement, never mind a company run by someone with King’s track record. As for his “no third party debt” shtick, I think King should be reminded that everyone, other than group companies, is a third party. Loans from shareholders are most certainly not internal debt.
Does this help? From the Glib’s statement:
Thought not! Its just I could have sworn that Neil and Stuart said that was the holding company…..
I would also add that there are not many clubs brass necked enough given the somewhat transparent imperfect rules application that got them to that happy state, to gloat about it either, especially if ongoing favours are required. This really is quite the little hate pot they’ve created isn’t it!
I’m sorry to go over old ground but football finance isn’t difficult. There’s a triangle with Debt, Players and (at the higher level where these things usually occur, or at least come to a head) Trophies at the points. The triangle is unbreakable. You can’t have one without accepting the relationship to the other. Pythagoras did not theorise that all angles must equal 180 deg unless you want to call it a different triangle in which case it doesn’t matter and all the other the triangles will be envious of you. Not on the accepted wisdom that I, well, accepted!
vansen 8th March 2016 at 8:16 am #Let me say straight away that i dont give a flying **** about the celtic/sevco result. i dont support either.
However, if the celtic supporters were minded they could do a very simple protest. Hold large cards up saying NEW CLUB. Alternatively CHEATS PROSPER. Or STRIP THE TITLES.
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I think you are probably giving Scotland’s freedom of speech laws more credit than they deserve. Everything but the tiniest of banners will most likely be banned. However, they did take out an ad in the SMSM the first time the two clubs met, making the position quite clear.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/row-zed/old-firm-derby-celtic-fans-5040788
I was at last year’s SFA Cup Final.
It was a great day out for all with two friendly clubs and supporters groups and Falkirk were the better team.
Hampden was only half full.
I’d guess the powers that be prefer their park to be bursting at the seams to show how vibrant their product is and the draw for the semi finals will achieve that with one sold out semi and a sold out final in 2016 guaranteed already
The blitz has begun and I already hate the hype about the return of the “Old Firm” dominating the red tops and the BBC too who get worse by the day.
I am aware and weary of the circular “new club /old club” argument but feel that this is Celtic’s opportunity to make a point on behalf of everyone.
All they have to do is confirm as a matter of fact that this is the first time they have played the new Rangers as is in the Scottish Cup.
They will only get one chance.
In the last few years we’ve seen a couple of wee guys at wee clubs making the same point whether in their programme or on over their tannoys and we’ve seen the bullying they’ve had to put up with because they were wee and unsupported by the other clubs.
Most of the people on this site have been embarrassed that they’ve been hung out to dry.
Well Celtic are our biggest club and now they can simply make the point that they welcome the opportunity to play against the new Rangers club for the first time in The Scottish Cup and look forward to welcoming them to the SPL next year and indeed to an interlinked future because competition is good for everyone.
I’m not holding my breath however.
From James Doleman’s early tweets; it looks like BDO’s counsel has gone in with a strong case. It would appear that the tax avoidance industry is unhappy with the CoS ruling and so BDO should be granted permission to appeal, as rich shysters might otherwise be denied the opportunity to get richer, unless they actually find productive employment! I think it is a master stroke to quote newspapers and tax avoidance publications ahead of making points of law, and to hell with common sense!
Sadly, with the way things have gone in all things tainted with Rangersness, it might work!
James Doleman@jamesdolemanJudges rule “Rangers tax case” raises significant issues and should be heard by Supreme Court. M/F
James Doleman reporting its another replay as the Rangers Tax Case is to go to the Supreme Court.
I laughed at James Doleman tweet ‘ The judges now in a huddle to discuss decision’ Just imagining a Celtic type huddle.
Looks like the can’s been kicked further down the road, BDO have been granted leave to appeal as the case raises ‘significant issues and should be heard by the Supreme Court’. Sigh.
Worth remembering, and reminding SMSM, whenever required, that the CoS decision still stands, Rangers use of EBTs was illegal!
Allyjambo 8th March 2016 at 11:03 am #Worth remembering, and reminding SMSM, whenever required, that the CoS decision still stands, Rangers use of EBTs was illegal!
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And that the Supreme Court can refuse to hear it.
Corrupt official 8th March 2016 at 9:29 am # vansen 8th March 2016 at 8:16 am #Let me say straight away that i dont give a flying **** about the celtic/sevco result. i dont support either. However, if the celtic supporters were minded they could do a very simple protest. Hold large cards up saying NEW CLUB. Alternatively CHEATS PROSPER. Or STRIP THE TITLES. ————————————————————————————————————- I think you are probably giving Scotland’s freedom of speech laws more credit than they deserve. Everything but the tiniest of banners will most likely be banned. However, they did take out an ad in the SMSM the first time the two clubs met, making the position quite clear.http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/row-zed/old-firm-derby-celtic-fans-5040788
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Dons fans have had several mini demos on the issue but still Stewart Milne will toe the official line. Pressure needs to be put on all CLUBS by VERY SIGNIFICANT NUMBERS OF THEIR FANS. Unless the CLUBS take action then we are f***ed and THEY will have won!! I fear they already have but would be delighted to be proved wrong.
bordersdon 8th March 2016 at 11:24 am
“Dons fans have had several mini demos on the issue but still Stewart Milne will toe the official line. Pressure needs to be put on all CLUBS by VERY SIGNIFICANT NUMBERS OF THEIR FANS. Unless the CLUBS take action then we are f***ed and THEY will have won!! I fear they already have but would be delighted to be proved wrong.”
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Celtic are already aware of my feelings on the matter BD, and that my future following of them is at stake over this. If they won’t support honesty in our game, then why should I support them?.
They don’t have to be too controversial to satisfy me. A clear statement of fact will suffice. Sevco released a statement detailing many matches along with stats of wins, draws, and losses.
For Celtic to release similar stats, i.e. Met once, won once, and I will be happy.
The main argument led by Roddy Dunlop QC on behalf of BDO was that the “redirection of earnings” argument which was pivotal in the CoS decision, was only raised at the CoS appeal and not at the FTTT or UTTT. Therefore they should be allowed to appeal it.
When the three judges (the same three as had heard the CoS appeal) emerged from their huddle, Lord Carloway granted leave to appeal on the basis that their previous decision on “redirection of earnings” would have wider implications beyond the current case, therefore it was appropriate for the appeal to be heard by the Supreme Court.
I’ve now had a chance to look over the Rangers accounts and statement just published and compare them against the last full year’s accounts. The claimed improvement in income at least stands up to my scrutiny (unqualified as it is).
From last year’s accounts we know that there were just over 26,500 ST holders for 2014/15 which brought in income of £6.3M at an average £237 per ticket (net of VAT).
Those accounts also showed that the total match day income (including walk ups, hospitality and catering) as £11.6M for the full season (£5.7M for the period up to Dec 14 and a further £5.9M to June 15).
So total match day income is approx. 1.8 times the ST income.
Move forward to this season and we have been told that 36,500 STs have been sold. Prices went up by 5%, so the average price would be £250, netting the club £9.1M.
Multiply the £9.1M by 1.8 and the club is on target to earn £16.4M from match day income alone over the season.
Rangers played 10 home league games before the end of December so 10/18 (55%) of their ST income should be included as income in the interim accounts published yesterday. 55% of the projected £16.4M match day income for the full year is therefore £9.0M for the period up to the end of December.
The text accompanying the accounts yesterday stated that match day income was up £3.3M on the same period last season. Last year’s first half earned £5.7M, then add the £3.3M and you get £9.0M as their match day income for the first half of this season, which is exactly the figure that my projection came up with.
If my modelling is correct, then the club should be on target to earn £7.4M for match day income for the second half of the season, against £5.9M for the same period last season. That £1.5M improvement still won’t be enough to fully cover expenditure, so the previously forecast £2.5M shortfall for this season may well prove to be pretty accurate.
The Scottish Cup and Petrofac Cup ties (and blanket TV coverage) will help their income for the rest of the season, but needs to be set against the income earned last season from the additional play-off matches.
So off to the Supreme Court we go.
I wonder how long it will take for the level 5 media acolytes to proclaim this as a victory for Rangers.
Even if EBT’s were in themselves legal the manner in which SDM used them was not.
Personally glad that it has been kicked up to the Supreme Court as it will at last draw a line under it, albeit that it may take a long time to get there.
With reference to TRFC “accounts” these are little more than management accounts and have no standing.
If you had taken them to your Bank manager you would have been shown the door very quickly. They are about as useful as a bus ticket to the moon.
They have debt to directors and to the holding company, TRIFC and so to proclaim that they have no external debt is nonsense.
Only in the land of Sevconia!
EJ @12.40 Is there an element of double counting in there. If season tickets are up 10k won’t that have seen a reduction in walkups that constituted a material amount of last seasons 1.8 multiplier.
PMGB’s rugby loving numbers man is implying a dose of salt needs to be taken given the complete lack of independent verification including on the loans being interest free. Also notes the lack of a balance sheet.
700 shares is neither here nor there but somebody sold just over that amount yesterday at nearly 10% below that last trade price (almost 6 months ago) http://lmmx.co.uk/companies/profile/rangers-international-foofball-club-plc/.
Hi everyone, if the DOS was illegal & Rangers won titles during that era and the SPL changed the dates from 1998 to 2000 why can’t we as fans tackle this ? Why do we need to wait on BTC appeal ?
Well, that was bit of a scoosh, and all too easy for Mr Dunlop!
One wonders why three judges failed to see what Mr Dunlop ,with the greatest if ease, showed them (in less than three-quarters of an hour)
a) that they had, in his respectful submission, over-ruled two specialist tribunals on a point which did not occur to Counsel or the other tribunals, thus they had arguably acted as a court of first instance! and
b) that HMRC had themselves disregarded their own guidance to tax-payers and had in effect argued against their own case.
c) that this court by its previous decision had taken a line (arguably) which contradicted the judgment of the Supreme Court in the case of[Edwards and Roberts (1935) ?]which had stood for over 80 years, and such widespread confusion had been occasioned in the tax world by their Lordships’ decision that a definitive clearing up by the Supreme court was necessary in the general public interest.
Mr Thomson had nothing much more to say other than they opposed the application, that there had been discussions , that pars 39 and 48 of ( the earlier judgment?) show that the their Lordships had addressed the point that was said not to have occurred before,that only ONE tax case had been stayed by HMRC ( worth about £6m ) NOT, as his learned friend said, the hundreds of tax cases worth billions. And stayed for what? pending the result? But the result is already definitive in this Court’s previous decision.And this Court already established the fact ofbthis case, that the employees had a right to payment as a result of their employment.
And the Court had been right (at para 57) in asserting that the principle on which HMRC had appealed was soundly founded.
In his respectful submission, the statutory test for this application for leave to appeal is not satisfied.
_____
Their Lordships went into a wee huddle, backs to the Court for about 4 or 5 minutes.
Lord Carloway then announced:We are satisfied that there is an arguable point of law on the question of whether payments were re-directed payments of earnings.
We accept the potential consequences of this question, and therefore grant leave to appeal to the Supreme court.
______
And that was that.
I gather that it is normal practice for at least one of the Scottish judges of the Supreme Court to sit on cases coming from a Scottish Court. We might see Lord Hodge in action again.How the time has flown!
hen1rik 8th March 2016 at 1:39 pm
‘..if the DOS was illegal & Rangers won titles during that era and the SPL changed the dates from 1998 to 2000 why can’t we as fans tackle this ? Why do we need to wait on BTC appeal ?’
_______There is, of course, no ‘if’ about the Discounted Option scheme! We are waiting for something else before we hopefully expose the Football Authorities on two ‘sporting’ fronts- jiggery- pokery vis-a-vis UEFA licensing, and even worse jiggery-pokery on the failure to disclose players’ remuneration .
If the Supreme Court decides that the EBT scheme as used by SDM, that technically would let him off the charge of being a tax cheat. He would still be a ‘sports cheat’, big time,and a protected one, at that.
In my opinion.
In my immediately previous post, in the final para I missed out ‘was ok’ after ‘SDM’, but I think most would have realised that.
The two replays in the Scottish Cup were not allowed to be broadcast recently because there was Champions League football on.
However tonight’s Hull v Arsenal relpay game in the Cup is being shown live. It’s a 7pm KO but their will still be a considerable overlap. The FA asked permission from Uefa and got it!
Believe it or not the Daily Record has contacted the SFA and asked for their comments. Who would have believed it, the DR asking questions! We await their reply.
(I omitted to mention there are two CL games on tonight).
John Clark 8th March 2016 at 2:17 pm
Thanks John.
Anyone else find it odd in court today the brief for HMRC said BDO have the funds to take this to the Supreme Court.
Yes I found that very strange too hen1rik. Maybe it would be clear in context. Tweets are very condensed reports by the nature of the thing.
Still good on James Doleman (& jc & ej)
Hen1rik what happened to your comment? did you delete it? My reply now looks like I am talking to myself!
tykebhoy 8th March 2016 at 1:36 pm #
EJ @12.40 Is there an element of double counting in there. If season tickets are up 10k won’t that have seen a reduction in walkups that constituted a material amount of last seasons 1.8 multiplier.
PMGB’s rugby loving numbers man is implying a dose of salt needs to be taken given the complete lack of independent verification including on the loans being interest free. Also notes the lack of a balance sheet.
700 shares is neither here nor there but somebody sold just over that amount yesterday at nearly 10% below that last trade price (almost 6 months ago) http://lmmx.co.uk/companies/profile/rangers-international-foofball-club-plc/.
===========================
I agree that the absence of detail in the numbers needs to be treated with extreme caution, but I don’t believe that there is double counting in my calculation. I was keen to try and make some sense of what little information was provided to see if I could come up with a scenario that was at least plausible, if not 100% accurate.
The attendance figures (home league games) I have for last season and this are:
2014/15 – 32,798 (STs – 26,015 Walk-ups – 6,783)
2015/16 – 44,695 (STs – 36,500 Walk-ups – 8,195)
So STs are up 40%, Walk ups are up 21%, Attendances are up 36%, ST Prices are up 5%, I’m unsure about walk up prices.
Last season’s multiplier was actually 1.848, but I had rounded it down to 1.8. I’ve now checked the multipliers for the previous couple of season 12/13 and 13/14. The average since the Newco was formed is 1.70, so the 1.8 that I used won’t be far out.
———————————–
The 714 shares as sold yesterday is a common one, as it came from the minimum investment that fans made in the IPO. £500 at 70p a share = 714 shares.
Don’t know if I’m alone on this but I followed James Doleman’s tweets from the courts today. When he said input from both parties had been submitted I naively believed we would need to wait a few hours or even days for a judgement. That has always been the pattern so far.
imagine my surprise therefore that after only a few minutes we got the news that the judges – the same three who had earlier ruled against Rangers – had given BDO leave to appeal to the Supreme Court.
Just shows there’s a surprise round very corner in this farrago.
let me get this straight …. the current decision that EBT’s were used by Rangers Football Club illegally still stands, the Supreme Court can still reject the appeal or they could even also uphold or reverse the guilty decision after an appeal.
so how long are we looking at for the Supreme Court hearing, how long will it last for and can that then be appealed ? In other words what is a rough timeline for conclusion of this shambles that seems to have made a lot of people a lot of money so far by stretching it out, while also preventing a lot of things happening when pandora’s box finally blows wide open.
bit OT as its Irish Football not Scottish but doe’s anybody on here know much about Shamrock Rovers? It seems that we might be about to agreeing a Partnership Deal with them.. I only know The Name i’m afraid nothing about them as a Club
Just to remind SMSM what reporting is all about. Without fear or favour. Shame on you all.
https://t.co/iJqyUPDawf
Give it two years from today, and you won’t be far off the mark, in my opinion. It’s almost as if the idea was to separate the final decision from the relevant events by as much time as possible, so that the eventual impact is lessened.
celtic fc incorporated 1897 8th March 2016 at 4:27 pm
‘…so how long are we looking at for the Supreme Court hearing, how long will it last for and can that then be appealed ..’
_________
Have a wee read at this bumph. I think it probably means there is no right of appeal to any other court, except maybe when it’s a question of fundamental human rights.
“The Supreme Court and EuropeRelationship with the European Court of Human RightsBefore the Human Rights Act was passed by Parliament in 1998 it was not possible for an individual in the UK to challenge a decision of a public authority on the grounds that it violated his or her rights under the European Convention of Human Rights (ECHR), within the courts of the UK. Individuals instead had to take their case directly to the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg (ECtHR).
Once the Act came into force on 2 October 2000, individuals could claim a remedy for breaches of their Convention rights in the UK courts. An individual who thinks that his or her Convention rights have not been respected by a decision of a UK court may still bring a claim before the ECtHR, but they must first try their appeal in the UK courts.
It is the duty of all such courts, including the UK Supreme Court, to interpret all existing legislation so that it is compatible with the ECHR; so far as it is possible to do so. If the court decides it is not possible to interpret legislation so that it is compatible with the Convention it will issue a ‘declaration of incompatibility’.
Although a declaration of incompatibility does not place any legal obligation on the government to amend or repeal legislation, it sends a clear message to legislators that they should change the law to make it compatible with the human rights set out in the Convention. In giving effect to rights contained in the ECHR the Court must take account of any decision of the ECtHR in Strasbourg. No national court should “without strong reason dilute or weaken the effect of the Strasbourg case law” (Lord Bingham of Cornhill in R (Ullah) v Special Adjudicator [2004] UKHL 26).
However, in rare circumstances, the Supreme Court has effectively sent issues back to Strasbourg for reconsideration. For example, in 2009 the Court declined to follow a decision of the ECtHR in R v Horncastle. This case raised the question whether there could be a fair trial when a defendant was prosecuted based on evidence given by witnesses who subsequently did not attend the trial in person and therefore were not available to be cross-examined by the defendant.”
Ever since the first tribunal came down against HMRC I have suspected that this would go all the way to the supreme court. I believe that HMRC want this to happen to make sure any future cases are watertight with no appeal options available. I also believe that the supreme court will rule in HMRC’s favour.
I have to admit that most legal arguments go over my head. But I too thought this would end up at the Supreme court. As I understand it, when HMRC get the bit between their teeth they take it as far as they can go. And on the other side eg. BDO there is so much money to be made from this that they will also take it to the end game.
So, with todays court ruling are we back at the ‘Witchunt’ and ‘Waste of Tax Payers Money’ stage. Surely if the same 3 judges feel the need to refer the matter upstairs then they were not all that sure of their ruling in the first place.
am i getting this right,if BDO lose this last chance then they get paid anyway and the creditors get stiffed
Carfins Finest 8th March 2016 at 9:21 pm #
So, with todays court ruling are we back at the ‘Witchunt’ and ‘Waste of Tax Payers Money’ stage. Surely if the same 3 judges feel the need to refer the matter upstairs then they were not all that sure of their ruling in the first place.
============================
Not at all. The three Lords came to a decision based on the evidence before them.
Today’s decision was an acknowledgement of the potential wider impact of that decision, coupled with the fact that the crux of their previous decision was based on an argument about “redirection of earnings” that was not raised at either the FTTT or UTTT. The appellants were thus able to argue that they should be entitled to make appeal against that as a point of law, in itself.
I’m pretty sure that Andrew Thornhill (he of the rubber cheques) was sitting in front of us in court today, supporting Roddy Dunlop QC. He is the real EBT expert and shouldn’t be underestimated when the case is heard at the Supreme Court.
Interesting piece…
https://rangerssupportersloyal.wordpress.com/2016/03/08/rsl-statement-on-john-james/
Smugas 8th March 2016 at 9:18 am #The Cat NR1 7th March 2016 at 3:32 pm ======================== Would that be the “club” that is unable to enter into contracts, employ people or incur debts? Or do they mean the holding company vehicle or engine room subsidiary? It’s all too confusing.Does this help? From the Glib’s statement:
Chairman Dave King said in a statement: “I am also pleased to report that Rangers now has no third-party debt whatsoever. “There are not many clubs in the world that are in that enviable position.”
==========================================
Is having no external debt an admission that nobody will give them credit, rather than some bizarre business badge of honour?
Even the most careful old biddy will owe the milkman and newsagent.
Is every phone at Ibrox pay as you go? Do they feed 50p coins into their electric meter?
Maybe they have advance payment DDRs in place for their utilities?
And surely, they can’t be paying their VAT and PAYE in advance (rather than not at all), or are they saying that HMRC are making them pay up front?
Where’s ra balance sheet? We demand to know the names of the creditors.
Hoopy 7 8th March 2016 at 1:17 pm #So off to the Supreme Court we go. I wonder how long it will take for the level 5 media acolytes to proclaim this as a victory for Rangers.
=======================================
I assume that Sevco Scotland Ltd would claim the victory as part of the continuity myth but the tax liability would have been due by the old holding company?
tony 8th March 2016 at 9:34 pm #am i getting this right,if BDO lose this last chance then they get paid anyway and the creditors get stiffed
====================
BDO get paid win, lose or draw, as liquidator’s fees are top of the list for settlement.
.
If BDO win the appeal against the big tax case, as opposed to winning the right to appeal, which is what happened today (as seemed to be expected by most of us), that will reduce the overall total of creditors. HMRC’s share will decrease significantly, leaving the wee tax case liability, the previously agreed big tax case liability and the Craig Whyte era VAT/PAYE. That would mean that the other creditors on the list (275 excluding HMRC?) would get a higher dividend (pence in the pound settlement) than would be the case if HMRC prevailed in the appeal. If HMRC won the appeal, they would get the lion’s share of the creditors’ pot due to their significantly increased pro rata dividend.
.
We would then await the liquidators report into the directors’ conduct, to see whether the directors could be pursued personally to add to the creditors pot. That may cause additional embarassment to the SFA (is that possible though?), given their flimsy F&P procedures.
CrownStBhoy 8th March 2016 at 9:50 pm #Interesting piece… https://rangerssupportersloyal.wordpress.com/2016/03/08/rsl-statement-on-john-james/
========================
Is there a click-free summary available?
The link looks a bit iffy to me.
I’m a wee bit confused about HMRC share due from the creditors pot. It seems to me that Income Tax (such as it was outwith EBT considerations), VAT & NI contributions, in other words all the admitted money due to the tax man withheld by Whyte, is not disputed and stands alone not dependent on the outcome of the Supreme Court judgement (if the appeal is allowed).
Then there is the wee tax case declared a no no and admitted. Not appealed against. So again stand alone. Nothing to do with the outcome of Big Tax Case.
So we are left with the part of the money due to HMRC because of the EBTs. Why is HMRC claiming this from the creditors pot? Why not the recipients? Is it because the tax man believes it is the employers (old Rangers) duty to deduct the correct tax at the point of payment – salaries bonuses etc. So they should make good?
I have stated previously on here when an employee receives his P60 every year that he/she should have responsibility that it accurately reflects his/her renumerations.
Who should the tax man go after?
The Cat NR1
there will be nothing left when BDO get their huge fees
STICKY
Sadly, the next SFM meeting scheduled to take place on Monday 4th April in Perth has been postponed for the reasons discussed last week. Since then, only another two tickets have been booked, so we have had to call off
We are still getting the hang of organising events like this, and the lack of demand on that date at that venue has caused a rethink. We could have hung on for another week to see if demand increased, but we had to think about the people who planned to arrange overnight accommodation, and give them earliest notice of cancellation.
We will be refunding all ticket purchases over the next couple of days, and re-arranging in due course.
Also this evening, the new site (still being put together) automatically posted sample pages, posts and product content to Twitter. Result: serious egg on faces here 🙁
There is a pretty cool new PM app with the new site, and there is access to ALL SFM blogs going back to July 2012. Today was a setback on a couple of fronts then, but onwards and upwards, beginning with the new site early in the week.
easyJambo 8th March 2016 at 9:48 pm
==========================
It’s an extremely interesting point.
Will the Supreme Court be considering whether the entire concept of an EBT, non contractual payments at the discretion of an independent trustee and outwith the control of the entity putting the money into the trust fails as a concept. In essence should the initial payment into the trust be considered an emolument for tax purposes. (This is the position I take)
Or will they be looking at the specifics of how Rangers abused that concept (the loans decided upon by an independent trustee) by making what were clearly contractual payments, whilst hiding the contractual arrangement when making those payments.
Part of me suspects that those behind the deception would rather that it was all done and dusted by now and really wouldn’t want it looked into any further.
The notion that EBTs as a concept fail just means there was a misunderstanding and they were no different from every other greedy bar steward. However if they deliberately abused the system, that is a different kettle of monkeys.
tony 8th March 2016 at 11:43 pm #The Cat NR1 there will be nothing left when BDO get their huge fees
============
BDO have brought in quite a bit, way in excess of their fees.
Not enough for a 100% dividend though.
The last creditors report showed that they had been very busy earning their money after a fairly slow start.
CrownStBhoy 8th March 2016 at 9:50 pm
“….Interesting piece…”
___________
What is particularly interesting is this:
“..Mr James’ rhetoric is that Rangers is a new or phoenix club which has no entitlement to the world record haul of league trophies and other silverware won prior to 2012. He is entitled to this opinion;……”,
and it is interesting in that the writer of the piece did not attempt to adduce any facts to contradict
the fact of Liquidation,
the fact of the new creation, by asset strippers, of the Sevcos ( whichever of the two is the ‘legal’one!)
the fact that the RFC which did have entitlement to many of the titles etc ( but not all) is now still in existence but ‘in liquidation’ and cannot by any stretch of the imagination be TRFC.
It is not a matter of ‘opinion’ -even a skilled QC made a farce of himself by using idiotic terms such as ‘manifestation’ , ‘the passion’ , ‘what it all means’ because he could not, and no QC could, find ANY LEGAL BASIS to support the idea that the new club is anything but a new entity. The ‘passion’, the ‘what it’s all about’ of people who had supported the liquidated club cannot make a four year old club age by a hundred and odd years just because they wish it to be so.
Bald denial of truth in the face of incontrovertible evidence is where madness lies.(Pun intended)
The Cat NR1
it’s a bloody mess,and the shambles that is the sfa/spfl are trying to tell people to move on and believe sevco are rangers,oh and smsm too
The Cat NR1 9th March 2016 at 12:00 am
============================
I think people are still failing to see the point if they believe a liquidator’s job is simply to liquidate the assets and to bring in as much money as they can for the creditors.
Forgive me for posting Malcolm Cohen’s pen portrait once again. I don’t think HMRC picked him at random.
“Malcolm is a Licensed Insolvency Practitioner with thirty years business restructuring and insolvency experience. Malcolm has extensive knowledge across a range of sectors including, financial services, property, professional services, shipping and not for profit. Malcolm leads the firms’ National Contentious Insolvency Team, this team is dedicated to recovering assets through litigation, cross border investigations and uncovering fraud. He also leads the firms’ Corporate Streamlining Team.”
I would not be surprised if his remit of uncovering fraud has not led to some of the current court cases.
jimbo 8th March 2016 at 11:41 pm #I’m a wee bit confused about HMRC share due from the creditors pot. It seems to me that Income Tax (such as it was outwith EBT considerations), VAT & NI contributions, in other words all the admitted money due to the tax man withheld by Whyte, is not disputed and stands alone not dependent on the outcome of the Supreme Court judgement (if the appeal is allowed).
Then there is the wee tax case declared a no no and admitted. Not appealed against. So again stand alone. Nothing to do with the outcome of Big Tax Case.
So we are left with the part of the money due to HMRC because of the EBTs. Why is HMRC claiming this from the creditors pot? Why not the recipients? Is it because the tax man believes it is the employers (old Rangers) duty to deduct the correct tax at the point of payment – salaries bonuses etc. So they should make good?
I have stated previously on here when an employee receives his P60 every year that he/she should have responsibility that it accurately reflects his/her renumerations.
Who should the tax man go after?
========================
Firstly, the tax would be due from the employer as the money in the employee’s hand is deemed to be the net amount after deduction of due tax & NI.
That can be very expensive in the case of higher rate tax payers, where a £400 tax liability on a gross payment of £1,000 would become a tax liability of £667 on a net payment of £1,000, ignoring NIC. The assumption is that the employee has acted in good faith and the failure to deduct and account for tax lies with the employer.
There is provision to pursue the recipient, although that may have gone out of time, and given that even now the liability has not been agreed that does seem unlikely, although others may be in a position to offer a different view.
The directors could be held personally liable.
Homonculus,
“The notion that EBTs as a concept fail just means there was a misunderstanding and they were no different from every other greedy bar steward. . However if they deliberately abused the system, that is a different kettle of monkeys.”
—————————————————————————————-
The first part seems to be about Tax avoidance, the second Tax evasion.
Rangers made it evasion by denying the existence and concealment of the side letters which is why they have pusued this since 2004.
“Reducing wages in a player’s official contract would result in reduced PAYE and NIC taxes. The rest of his promised wage would be paid with little or nothing deducted for tax through an elaborate ruse intended to disguise the fact that employment-related pay was being channeled to players. Football had become a cut-throat business and an out-of-form or injured player could not rely on a handshake to ensure that he got his full promised pay. So Rangers provided players using this scheme with secret ‘side-letters’ that promised additional payment.Denying the existence of the side-letters was key to making the “Wee Tax Case” scheme appear to work. Lying/forgetting (delete whichever one you think is implausible) about the ‘side-letters’ was also key to the story of the “Big Tax Case”. It was this fundamental deceit/omission (delete as you see fit) regarding the ‘side-letters’ that would seal Rangers’ fate.”
(Rangers Tax Case, Nov 2015)
The Cat NR1 8th March 2016 at 11:21 pm========================Is there a click-free summary available?The link looks a bit iffy to me.
Reproduced in full, if the mods will allow of course.
RSL Statement on John JamesMarch 8, 2016 by Merlin 8 CommentsHaving held our collective peace for some time, we would like to make a statement concerning the posts of the person named John James on his blog.
Mr James’ rhetoric is that Rangers is a new or phoenix club which has no entitlement to the world record haul of league trophies and other silverware won prior to 2012. He is entitled to this opinion; however, it is not one shared by the RSL. We feel we need to point this out since John James insists on declaring his blog a successor to this one. Whilst it is true that “JJ” as he is known, was a frequent contributor to our Comments section, there was no formal or even informal association between the RSL and him.
To our knowledge, JJ is not a member and the truth is that we do not know his identity. Opinions vary between JJ being a Rangers fan embittered by previous dealings with the club and a timposter pretending to be a bluenose. The latter option would make JJ one sick puppy in anybody’s book, it has to be said.
We previously allowed JJ’s posts because he made very valid points concerning the present regime at Ibrox. It should be pointed out, however, that not all of his posts were passed. It can reasonably be claimed that JJ at one time made a valid contribution to the ongoing Rangers situation, particularly to those who were and are sceptical of Dave King and his colleagues. A year on from the regime change and many questions remain unanswered. It is evident that Mark Warburton and the team are delivering on the field and this is deflecting from a lot of the background activity which is still very precarious and volatile.
Having said that, John James has segued from relentless criticism of Dave King to what appears to be his true agenda. That agenda is Rangers as a new club and the need to strip titles from the supposed old club. Disillusioned/embittered Rangers fan or a “timposter” it must be said that JJ is clearly someone who hates Rangers and seeks to damage the club. The increasingly vituperative nature of his recent offerings could not possibly come from a person with any credible claim to be a Rangers supporter.
Furthermore, the comment section of JJ’s blog reads like a Who’s Who of the usual “offended” Rangers haters whose bitterness seeps out of every syllable.
The RSL’s position is clear and unequivocal. Given the choice of standing with a regime that we have great difficulties accepting with approval and standing with people who clearly are out to destroy the club and drag its name through the mud, we are foursquare behind Rangers FC.
And that is NOT a masonic reference, Mr James.
Homunculus 9th March 2016 at 12:16 am #The Cat NR1 9th March 2016 at 12:00 am ============================
I think people are still failing to see the point if they believe a liquidator’s job is simply to liquidate the assets and to bring in as much money as they can for the creditors.
Forgive me for posting Malcolm Cohen’s pen portrait once again. I don’t think HMRC picked him at random.
“Malcolm is a Licensed Insolvency Practitioner with thirty years business restructuring and insolvency experience. Malcolm has extensive knowledge across a range of sectors including, financial services, property, professional services, shipping and not for profit. Malcolm leads the firms’ National Contentious Insolvency Team, this team is dedicated to recovering assets through litigation, cross border investigations and uncovering fraud. He also leads the firms’ Corporate Streamlining Team.”
I would not be surprised if his remit of uncovering fraud has not led to some of the current court cases.
=======================================
In due course we will see the liquidator’s present the directors’ conduct report. That would form the basis for further action against the directors, if appropriate.
(S) DM, G&SL etc are not in the clear yet. Dickson and Ogilvie may also have cause for concern.
The wide ranging powers at the liquidator’s disposal would have helped to fill in the gaps left by the missing paperwork. It’s amazing what they can do as officers of the court compared to even HMRC compliance officers. As Homunculus says, it would be unsurprising if those powers and the access that they allow would not have uncovered some evidence of malfeasance.
easyJambo 8th March 2016 at 9:48 pm #
Carfins Finest 8th March 2016 at 9:21 pm # So, with todays court ruling are we back at the ‘Witchunt’ and ‘Waste of Tax Payers Money’ stage. Surely if the same 3 judges feel the need to refer the matter upstairs then they were not all that sure of their ruling in the first place. ============================ Not at all. The three Lords came to a decision based on the evidence before them.
Today’s decision was an acknowledgement of the potential wider impact of that decision, coupled with the fact that the crux of their previous decision was based on an argument about “redirection of earnings” that was not raised at either the FTTT or UTTT. The appellants were thus able to argue that they should be entitled to make appeal against that as a point of law, in itself.
I’m pretty sure that Andrew Thornhill (he of the rubber cheques) was sitting in front of us in court today, supporting Roddy Dunlop QC. He is the real EBT expert and shouldn’t be underestimated when the case is heard at the Supreme Court.
==============
Thanks EJ. A bit clearer now.
The saddest thing about this whole Rangers EBT case is the number of people in Scotland who are utterly desperate for it to be proved legal. Many of these people will be on low or even no incomes. Many will be on PAYE including some in the media who want Rangers to be found innocent of any wrongdoing. PAYE of course means you are a sitting duck for the taxman. In any case many people understand that payment of tax in full and on time underpins our democratic society. Yet here we have a bunch of already rich people being given letters by their employer promising to pay them vast sums of money that will never be subject to income tax, and a lot of people are actually okay with that.
It makes me wonder how far some people would go to satisfy their burning need for Rangers to always be superior over all others, particularly Celtic. When the front pages condemn tax avoidance while the back pages condone it…well, words fail me!
And just for the absence of doubt, the payment to the creditors and the source of BDO’s fees is not from the carcass of ‘Rangers’ per se. It is because of the extraneous injection if new money from the CD compensation. This was linked to the method used within Whyte’s takeover but it should not be confused with being ‘rangers money.
As one of mcmurdo’s bile seeping who’s who by the way I’ve never quite followed JJs agenda. His opinions whether you agree with them or not are always factual and my only criticism would be that they are too voluminous to really properly debate as we would on here. Good site nonetheless particularly for the other side perspective.
I can’t help feeling a bit sorry for johnjames today. The people who he might consider to be most like minded to him, in part anyway – Rangers Supporters Loyal – have come out against him.
RSL is one of the more moderate blogs about TRFC. The criticisms are not at a level of bile & veiled threats. Mostly regarding him being a ‘Timposter’
I have to admit I’ve thought about it many times. He seemed to put just enough pro TRFC stuff in to allow me to give him the benefit of the doubt. But there is no doubt he had the mind set of a lot of Celtic, and other supporters to make you wonder.
His views on SFA, SPFL, SMSM you could read on here. His issues with Celtic FC Board reflect that of many comments on CQN, James Forrest, Etims et.al.
The whole area of title stripping & continuity he was at one with most of us. I think this was a tipping point for the folk on RSL.
Without wishing to sound too biblical about it, ‘He was a lone voice crying out in the wilderness’ Hope he carries on regardless.
All refunds for Perth have been issued this morning by Tris.
If you have a query about a refund, or if you haven’t received notification of an expected refund, could you please email sfm@sfm.scot. We will sort out any problems (if any arise) right away.
Also, thanks to all of those who asked us to retain their ticket cash for SFM funds. Your generosity is appreciated.
John Clark 9th March 2016 at 12:08 am # CrownStBhoy 8th March 2016 at 9:50 pm“….Interesting piece…”___________What is particularly interesting is this:“..Mr James’ rhetoric is that Rangers is a new or phoenix club which has no entitlement to the world record haul of league trophies and other silverware won prior to 2012. He is entitled to this opinion;……”,and it is interesting in that the writer of the piece did not attempt to adduce any facts to contradict the fact of Liquidation, the fact of the new creation, by asset strippers, of the Sevcos ( whichever of the two is the ‘legal’one!) the fact that the RFC which did have entitlement to many of the titles etc ( but not all) is now still in existence but ‘in liquidation’ and cannot by any stretch of the imagination be TRFC. It is not a matter of ‘opinion’ -even a skilled QC made a farce of himself by using idiotic terms such as ‘manifestation’ , ‘the passion’ , ‘what it all means’ because he could not, and no QC could, find ANY LEGAL BASIS to support the idea that the new club is anything but a new entity. The ‘passion’, the ‘what it’s all about’ of people who had supported the liquidated club cannot make a four year old club age by a hundred and odd years just because they wish it to be so. Bald denial of truth in the face of incontrovertible evidence is where madness lies.(Pun intended)
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And that, John, is in line with something I posted the other day; for all the words that the ‘same club’ advocates have pushed forward, not one of them attempts to form an argument in favour of their position. Not one ‘journalist’ has ever attempted to explain his own change of mind from his initial RIP position, not one RRM quoted at the time of the failed CVA has tried to explain his own change of mind, the SFA have never clarified their stance either.
I am a firm believer that those in the right have an easy task in proving their point, justifying their position, leaving the rest with egg on their face. It should surely be easy for any of the SMSM ‘wordsmiths’ to put together an article that would blow us all out of the water, they are, after all, employed to write intelligently and articulately while the rest of us have spent our lives avoiding writing whenever we can
Instead we only ever read statements condemning those that would question TRFC’s right to claim to be RFC, exactly in the way that that RST statement does, never once explaining why their ‘enemy’ has got it wrong. Oh they will quote various people, often out of context, and particularly men with a vested interest in giving the impression they agree with them, but the only ‘legal’ point they make is ‘LNS said we are the same club’ which he did not say, he merely fudged the issue with contradictory passages, and actually made it clear, to anyone prepared to pay attention, that it is only within the SPL’s own rules that succour exists for them. Only one small, inconsequential place, that merely deals with how a liquidated club would be treated by the SPL!
They have all ignored the fact that their silly ‘argument’ (that they never make) was quite literally laughed out of court just the other week! Why was that, do you think
JJ’s latest
http://johnjamessite.com/2016/03/09/constructive-criticism/
From Ross County this morning;
Good Morning
Another victory for HMRC against Tax evasion
Full Judgement can be seen here:-
https://www.supremecourt.uk/cases/docs/uksc-2014-0151-judgment.pdf
It looks very similar to EBT’s except it was shares given to employees which could then be cashed in.
Following the rationale in this case I think HMRC will get the decision they want.
The merger proposal for the Rangers fans groups:
http://therst.co.uk/media/1067/final-club-1872-proposal.pdf
tony 9th March 2016 at 10:44 am #JJ’s latest http://johnjamessite.com/2016/03/09/constructive-criticism/
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An act of contrition. I suppose the penance is trawling through his copious output, with his finger on the delete button. Quite a task.
It does seem like Merlin’s criticism has hit him hard.
neepheid
is his stuff now going to be watered down ? shame if he has to,freedom of speech and all that
Hoopy 7 @ 10:49
Thanks for that.
I’ve had a quick scan of that Supreme Court Judgement (on what was a contrived arrangement to avoid tax and NI obligations).
As you hint, it has obvious parallels with the Rangers* EBT case.
As someone unfamiliar with these things, I wonder if I am correct in thinking that the final couple of paragraphs of the Judgement suggest that HMRC should now be looking to recover the unpaid tax from the would-be beneficiaries of the contrived scheme?
Hoopy 7 9th March 2016 at 10:49 am
‘…Another victory for HMRC against Tax evasionFull Judgement can be seen here:-https://www.supremecourt.uk/cases/docs/uksc-2014-0151-judgment.pdf’
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It seems to me that BDO will not now proceed with their appeal to the Supreme Court.( I wonder whether their Lordships of the CoS knew that that decision of the Supreme Court was to be released today?)
But what do I know?
John Clark
they won’t ??? why did they go yesterday ? forgive my ignorance on this john