Look Back to Look Forward

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Look Back to Look Forward

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Everyone on this site has football experiences, views, stories and opinions. Everyone also wants things to be better in the future too. These are bonds that make us who we are and this forum what it is.

I’ll share a few experiences with you now.

I will never forget an impromptu and inspirational 60 minute Q. and A. masterclass by Davie MacParland to a group of relative youngsters at Hampden in 1975 after Scottish Unis had played a friendly with his team.

It was “over the moon Brian” time for me on finding a £5 note in my shoe. This was after I played my first game (unexpectedly) as an S form in the Highland League when my club’s  Aberdeen-based players had been held up by a road incident.

So happy and corrupted was I that I never questioned the widespread practice of giving money to amateur players thereafter so I’m part of the problem.

I also sat next to a young Jim Leyton who came to Butchart to watch himself on a match video after he had let in two goals when we dumped Deveronvale (where he was on loan) out of the Aberdeenshire Cup.  It was the very early days of video and Jim had never seen himself on a tv before.

Every person in the SFM community will have equally diverse and interesting experiences and I’m going to share one more with you now in a little more detail.

In the mid 90s I was given an amazing insight into how Scottish football really worked. In many ways it hasn’t changed much since.

Back then I was part of a small group brought in to help find funding for the upgrade of Tynecastle with the urgent need to construct three new stands. At the time it was a massive requirement for a very financially challenged organisation and at a push there were potentially just about enough pots of monies available from several sources to trigger the investment from the Football Trust and squeak over the line.

The most critical pot was mobilising the fans.

My role was to find a way of getting them to come aboard working with some fine lifetime Hearts fans like the late Alex Kitson so it would all look like a Hearts Community rather than a Mercer initiative.

The then, colourful Hearts majority owner was under constant pressure on other fronts at the time.

The team was not really performing with relatively new manager Jim Jeffries trying to get best out of predecessor Tommy Mclean’s mixed bag of old pros and kids. Making things worse was a growing, highly critical and very vocal consortium of local business people trying to get Mercer out (and themselves in).

I guess you could say in today’s parlance that they were RHM and civil war was very much happening down Gorgie way.

Anyway I can’t now recall all the detail and apologies if my memories have fused a little but a key AGM type meeting for Hearts shareholders at Ingliston was coming up and there was an agenda that looked like it might hurt “The Chairman” as Wallace liked to be called.

Never any flies on him though, he had seen the danger signs and was ready in his own way.

He turned up with his trusted few and simply yet quite brilliantly hijacked the negative agenda and ignored the real issues. He didn’t have a solution for them and couldn’t implement the changes that were in reality needed but quite simply he kicked all the trouble into the long grass.

He did this because he fundamentally understood that most shareholders in the room were just ordinary football fans and wanted nothing more than to be able to talk about football the game, Hearts their club, who they were due to play next and who would be playing.

It was that simple.

Mercer’s message to all that night was “Yes things have been tough but our best possible future is with me”.

He rammed this home by confidently telling the assembled body that Hearts were on the up because we had a new manager who needed time and then blew everyone away by announcing he just signed three amazing new players for them, Giles Rousset, Bruno Pasquale and Hans Eskilsson. After the applause and mayhem died down he had won.

Bruno and Rousset were newsworthy in any Scottish football context one being a French International and the other an ex Juventus tough guy with a EUFA and a couple of Coppa Italia winners medals.

Oh and Eskilsson had amazing hair.

Mercer’s simple bit of insight, showmanship, brinksmanship, call it what you like, led to the survival of his regime.

In a parallel maybe to what the SFA did after their meeting with Craig at the Hotel Du Vin in Glasgow, Mercer had enough time to be ready for the trouble he knew was coming and used his power to ignore the real issues and the detail and move on with a big gamble.

Looking back Wallace got a lot right .

He understood what the majority of ordinary football fans wanted. He’d also learnt that good press was needed and came from feeding the football writers enough tasty exclusives so they’d look after him in a symbiotic relationship, the kind of relationship that remains much the same today.

Even back then in the days when there were less full-colour pages pre-allocated to certain teams to fill and  more able journalists to fill them, the sports pages were about game reports and gossip rather than insight.

The packs of hacks all craved being handed tasty semi-exclusive stories.

It was and ever is thus and in those days the Daily Record was a wee gem with circulation nearer 700K than the 200K-ish today and amazingly all its costs were covered by it’s advertising revenue alone. The proud boast of Endell Laird was the purchase price was pure profit.

With hindsight Wallace may only have postponed the inevitable campaign by the RHM rebels that night at Ingliston. History tells us that the Robinson/Deans rebellion eventually forced their chance. They did have to dig much deeper financially than they ever wanted when their time eventually came, and soon fell out too, but that’s another story.

Wallace’s long grass was just never going to be deep enough to hide the issues he wanted to ignore but to his credit on his watch the stadium was upgraded and the first Scottish Cup since 1956 was paraded to the fans.

Mr. Mercer was an operator who like others before and since could see personal and business value in owning a club.

He cultivated friendly football writers.

He learned that the SFA could be difficult to deal with but much less so when you placed people on their various management boards. That was key to the inner power sanctums and brought you at best influence and at worst early warnings.

He may have been autocratic but knew you needed powerful friends at other clubs too and was always close with David Murray in particular.

So what has this little piece of retrospection and a handful of Finloch football stories got to do with a blog on SFM?

Last week I met Big Pink for the first time over a few coffees.

It was like meeting an old friend in the pub because of all the stuff we’ve lived through and shared over the last 5 or so years.

We talked about stuff and traded stories and opinions on life, football and about SFM what it does and what we are.

We got on to the subject of it’s future and with my business background he asked me to consider a piece for the blog about where the SFM, our fledgling business might go from here.

I maybe agreed too hastily because I have found it challenging to gather and spell out my thoughts.

So this is very much a starting couple of steps to bring in the SFM minds and set up future discussions following this blog and when we meet in Perth in April.

My starting point was to first consider what we are today.

It’s a personal view but to me SFM is a valued medium I come to most days. It’s for when I want to find out or to discuss what is happening.

It is populated with a bunch of people with different backgrounds, skills and insights, is always polite and often very funny.

I’d actually like to see more headline blogs because I enjoy them but our biggest value will always be analysis discussion and good humour.

SFM is fundamentally different to the MSM back pages that still offer us all a mono diet of whatever day-to-day gossip they have been spoon-fed by the Level 9’s of this world or made up and maybe embellished with a random phone call for a quote.

Yes their world is declining and will inevitably see fundamental restructure and change but that change has in reality nothing to do with how they cover and will continue to cover Scottish football.

I’d even posit (to use a wee word I’ve learned from the excellent JJ site I visit sometimes) that the red tops currently see their style of football coverage as a way of slowing their inevitable declines because it delivers the difficult to reach male audience their advertisers crave access to.

As a spectator I’d say the MSM in Scotland mostly seem to suffer from a polarised demographic focus/ bias too but that can never excuse their revisionism or the Spiers and Haggerty episodes we’ve just witnessed.

There is one benefit though. One you maybe hadn’t thought about from all the dreadful MSM football reportage.

The stuff they collectively generate enables all of us to have daily conversations with friends and strangers without actually saying anything about anything.

It gives us our daily top-up for the international language of football minutiae we all converse in every day.

I’ve been able to speak it fluently since I was in my teens. You know the kind of thing – the ins and outs, the ups and downs, the comings and goings and the toings and froings.

The good news, the bad news the made-up news – its all part of being involved with a team or indeed just being a football fan and it’s all conversation for the males of our species.

There are plenty of places I can and do get access to that kind of stuff but SFM isn’t and never has been a source.

I quickly found out that most of my pals don’t want to talk about side letters in the pub on a Friday, or the need for asterisked titles because they are more interested in tomorrow’s match and who will be out of contract at the end of the season.

Without being disrespectful in any way I think they are cut from the same wood as the majority of Mr. Mercer’s Hearts shareholders and if I’m honest part of me is too.

That has given our administrators and clubs too easy a ride.

Beyond the gossip it is fair to say in the last 40 or 50 years football has changed beyond all recognition.

It has become a source of power and money and as we know proverbially and in real life power can corrupt and money can be the root of all-evil.

The stuff happening at FIFA now can be no surprise to any fair-minded fan and I’d be inclined to think that there have been finagled decisions at the top for longer than the current stewardship of Mr. Blatter.

Way longer.

Football-land is a dirty world. A world where all the transparency is for show and real stuff has always been controlled and rewarding for those in the right places.

Closer to home football in Scotland is no different. Power and money have been the origins of our own North of the Border soap opera saga.

Its sometimes been very funny, often been entertaining too but is ultimately tragic and a sad indictment on our country.

Being Scotland nothing is ever as simple as it should be.

We started from a unique kind of place where for over a century we have had to live with an unhealthy, quasi-tribal, two-club duopolistic domination of all things football including the fans, the trophies, the money, the media attention and the administrators controlling our game.

The stark reality of 2016 is our biggest club/economy now finds its real ambitions thwarted, potentially forever, by its location in our restrictive league structure. It has nowhere currently to go and annoyingly the biggest league in the world is just over the border and part of the same country in political terms.

This is a destabilising influence on our game that won’t go away until change allows the next evolution.

Our second biggest economy as we now know had to cheat a little to keep up, post Fergus, and is now making its way back to the top end but with some truly nuclear baggage that I guess we still really only know the half of. Nothing will be simple in its return to what we’re told everyday is its rightful place. It too is a latent destabilising influence awaiting like a grumbling volcano.

What depresses me is the fact that the much-vaunted return of our dysfunctional duopoly is not a formula to recreate  the European success we all took for granted for so long. Those days will never return.

The decline of the Scottish giant that was and is Rangers has dominated our thoughts because it encapsulates so much more than what is wrong with our game.

It is a huge business and establishment fall from grace. A shocking story that has become an elephant in the room to our politicians, our media and many of our fellow fans and is still playing out to deafening silence in some quarters.

In the manic run up to the decline of David Murray’s club we benefitted from insights from the seminal RTC and were bombarded with mass denials from almost everywhere else.

We witnessed the £1 sale to Craig Whyte, the subsequent McCoist European failure, the eventual slide into messy liquidation with tax issues etc.

Our administrators failed us all the way through because they had a different agenda.

Our MSM didn’t want to know partly because it involved more than regurgitating press releases and partly because it was real news for real reporters and not back pages gossip.

Their editors failed us there too, big time.

Now the revisionism and invention of the post-liquidation ephemeral club and company scenarios has been creative to say the least.

I remember Mr. Traynor’s  initial headline and smile how he and others are now wading in a contradictory swamp of their own making. It’s all confusion when it needn’t be.

I only know the kind of stuff that really happened because of this site and its RTC predecessor.

Four or five years on and I think these guys (SFA, SPFL) acted like Wallace Mercer did at Ingliston and ran roughshod over process to “win”.

These well paid admin staff were never off-piste though and our clubs share complicity for their actions to varying degrees.

If I was Regan’s or Doncaster’s devil’s advocate I could just about comprehend that they acted because they feared for their TV revenues. The prospect of being without half of their duopoly ace card and the blue fans scared them and they were mandated by the clubs to maintain the status quo.

I don’t mean all the clubs but if we look at the key committee structures we’ll easily see who were in that inner sanctum at the time. They collectively decided to throw their rulebook out the window and there is no grass long enough to bury their collective actions because truth always outs.

Cast yourself back a few years not long before the St Valentine’s day 2012 news when the push was all for a 10 club league.

I remember Stewart Milne aggressively trying to sell us all a 10-club league because of the TV revenue it delivered (to the few).

At that time there seemed to be a collective “TV Gold Fever” prevailing in the cabal of top club chairmen that makes the real decisions and tells our administrators what to do.
Luckily they failed.

They nearly failed again too in 2012 with their tawdry 5 way agreement  and we all owe a debt of gratitude to the late Turnbull Hutton whose personal integrity, bloody-mindedness and leadership meant a significant change to the premeditated 5 way plan that our top clubs had all signed off.

Since then we’ve all suffered from Armageddon and long may it stay.

SFM has been at the forefront of the last five years. A place where fans from all the clubs come together to question, analyse, give insight, balance, consciousness on all aspects of the meandering road that has been this story so far.

It’s all recorded on our archives somewhere too. We’ve noted and discussed the following and more –

  • Two different signatures from the same club on the 5-way agreement
  • Two different and concurrent memberships of the SFA
  • Players TUPE-ing for free and no lawyers getting rich in trying to get them back
  • Pre-season games being cancelled because of registration and insurance issues
  • The Brechin game coming too soon for the paperwork
  • The entry-round in The Ramsdens Cup for the old club or is it the new club?
  • Record crowds, an even more aggressive songbook
  • Ian Black getting a surprise call-up and a bit of a game to legitimise  The New Rangers with their first cap
  • Millions raised from a gullible city and desperate fans but still several last gasp saves needed to avoid new financial stramashes
  • A charity that pays for holidays in America
  • Quasi-legal stuff with dodgy parameters for questionable enquiries like Nimmo Smith
  • Bryson and his logic that Spartans could and should have used to stay in the cup
  • A “Hopelessly Conflicted Chairman” re-elected and a new one who has fitted in seamlessly
  • Real legal stuff like HMRC appeals, and phrases like side-letters
  • Charlotte Fakes and maybe even Fake Charlotte Fakes
  • Fit and proper persons running our clubs
  • Recorded conversations
  • Onerous contracts
  • Metaphysical concepts of what football clubs in our courts with big bucks being spent on our behalf by our administrators

There is and has been a whole lot more and more to come on the schedules too.

How much of this would I have found on our MSM?

Very little – so thanks to those who go the extra mile for us including John Clark, EasyJambo and others at the courts,  Phil who will never go away, James Doleman and others too including JJ – all playing blinders where the hacks don’t dare.

Finally fast-forward to today.

Most Scottish fans probably know a little about the stuff I’ve touched upon and we’ve debated in depth. Not enough though.

But we have Darryl Broadfoot who is the SFA so we can all sleep rest assured each night.

 

Going forward we must address how we communicate as a medium to spread the word.

Ask yourself – Is what we do more important than knowing Rangers signed Dean Windass’s son from Accrington Stanley on a free because he’s going to play for England one day and stuff like that?

I’d say it is different although both have a place.

Our challenge is to create more impact with ours.

In finishing I have one serious starting proposal to make as a community but first a thank you.

Thank you to all the blog writers and posters because we have collectively created a site where real stuff can be dissected and discussed politely and in a non-partisan way.

Well done to the mods in particular and to our community In general

 

My simple proposal as our first step forward is to start a Wikipedia style library of the facts and keep it on our site.

Dates, happenings, people and all the stuff that will not allow any of it to stay buried forever in the long grass. The kind of detail that is in Auldheid’s amazing and resolute Resolution 12.

Chapter and verse whys and wherefores with dates and names.

 

This will achieve three things.

  • It will create bedrock for us as a trusted media channel whatever we decide to become.
  • It will put stuff factually into the public domain forever.
  • It will contradict any highly paid revisionists trying to change what really happened for their own agendas into the future.

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About the author

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Finloch author

Finloch has been a member of SFM since it's inception. A Hearts fan, he also penned the blog, Look Back to Look Forward

1,978 Comments so far

Reiver

ReiverPosted on4:46 pm - Mar 22, 2016


BP
Today I had a nice chat on the with a lady at UEFA HQ as means of following up on the documents that I sent. Apart from being unable to trace them, despite one being signed for, she also let me know in a roundabout way that anything sent by an individual was basically just stuck on the pile with all the rest. The issue they have, seemingly, is that they are inundated with complaints from Fernebahce and Galatasary fans to an extent that they cannot process them.
So as I said in a previous post, unless a member club or and offended foreign football association raises an action we are on our own. I am currently in the process of raising my concerns with the major clubs by telephone but, if they don’t bite, then it will only protests and boycotts by fans that will have any chance. Even then it would take the press to report it in a proper fashion to move forward and at present I do not believe that we have connected with enough supporters to be effective.

https://www.change.org/p/scottish-football-association-return-integrity-to-football-administration-in-scotland-94421b40-2d6b-4d4b-9cff-912c9849478f

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B_X7aVh2s6qcS1hhamJ0czlkdVU

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Reiver

ReiverPosted on5:21 pm - Mar 22, 2016


I’m at an age where it is not unusual to forget the name of things but in this case I knew exactly what it was called. The problem was that my deteriorating brain couldn’t find the neural path to my fingers so just left it out of the text. It should of course have read

“..nice chat on the telephone with a lady at UEFA…”

Be nice to your elders, they only want to be loved. (and given money of course)

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wottpiPosted on6:07 pm - Mar 22, 2016


REIVERMARCH 22, 2016 at 16:46

I applaud your tenacity but I guess what you describe is a Euro version of Regan’s ‘nothing’.

I said long ago, probably on the old RTC site, that those in charge of the game are no more than dealers and the fans are just junkies looking for a fix. Occasionally the odd junkie will make a stand but at the end of the day they know they have enough mugs (me included BTW) parting with their hard earned cash to do what they want and dismiss individuals or small groups of fans with relative ease.

While the petition is definitely worth while  without  member club or fellow association taking the matter I fear it is going to take a proper investigative journalist, political involvement or a court case to flush the matter out. 🙁

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paddy malarkey

paddy malarkeyPosted on6:17 pm - Mar 22, 2016


Thoughts are with the people of Belgium . I genuinely fear for the safety of fans at the Euros this summer .

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paddy malarkey

paddy malarkeyPosted on6:27 pm - Mar 22, 2016


StevieBCMarch 22, 2016 at 15:04

Are the commercial deals not with Sports Direct and the shares with MASH ? If so, straw-clutching indeed .

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StevieBC

StevieBCPosted on6:35 pm - Mar 22, 2016


Can’t remember if this was mentioned previously, but whilst we have reservations about radical change within FIFA following the departure of Sepp Blatter…

Just read an interesting article in the WSJ, about the huge Chinese company Dalian Wanda, [owned by China’s richest person], having agreed a major sponsorship deal with FIFA – and covering the next 4 World Cups.

Some major sponsors like Castrol oil, Continental, etc. have pulled away from FIFA already, whilst some have so far remained, including VISA ! 10

But what caught my eye was that Dalian had initially purchased a Swiss Marketing group – Infront Media – last year which brokered this FIFA deal.
This company was – and still is – headed by one Philippe Blatter – nephew of one Sepp Blatter…

http://www.wsj.com/articles/chinas-dalian-wanda-steps-in-to-partner-with-fifa-1458564559

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StevieBC

StevieBCPosted on6:45 pm - Mar 22, 2016


PADDY MALARKEYMARCH 22, 2016 at 18:27  
StevieBCMarch 22, 2016 at 15:04
Are the commercial deals not with Sports Direct and the shares with MASH ? …
=================
PM, IIRC that is the case.
But it’s pure kite-flying from the SMSM, and holding less than the 10% threshold would be rather significant, IMO.
…and I don’t think Ashley will be forced into doing anything he doesn’t want to do – even happy to dismiss MP’s summonses !

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StevieBC

StevieBCPosted on7:10 pm - Mar 22, 2016


I have only now just read The Clumpany’s latest post today about Big Mike.
I can confirm that I did not plagiarise any of his content: great minds think alike…?  09

https://theclumpany.wordpress.com/2016/03/22/his-big-mikeness-on-the-run/

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Homunculus

HomunculusPosted on7:57 pm - Mar 22, 2016


STEVIEBC
MARCH 22, 2016 at 18:45
=====================

It’s actually the same, but through a series of subsidiaries. MASH owns his holding in Sports Direct which owns the subsidiary which has the deal with Rangers. So basically Ashley has his holding in Rangers through MASH and his retail deal with Rangers through MASH.

Ashley is the only shareholder in MASH so anything MASH does is Ashley as well.

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The Ungrateful DeadPosted on8:13 pm - Mar 22, 2016


REIVERMARCH 22, 2016 at 16:46
                                                   So UEFA will not take complaints or questions from fans or shareholders seriously and that is why the CFC board, knowing this to be the case asked THEIR OWN SHAREHOLDERS to  contact UEFA!  and yet the ” celtic end ” will be jam packed at HAMPDEN because the OLD FIRM is alive and well in the hearts and minds of CFC and it’s fans.

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Homunculus

HomunculusPosted on8:31 pm - Mar 22, 2016


THE UNGRATEFUL DEAD
MARCH 22, 2016 at 20:13
1 0 Rate This

… because the OLD FIRM is alive and well in the hearts and minds of CFC and it’s fans.
=====================================================================

No it isn’t, not in the mind of all Celtic fans. Maybe for some, I have no idea, and I don’t intend speaking for tens of thousands of people. However not for me and not for a lot of people I know.

Not only is the “old firm” not alive and well, Rangers are not alive and well. They are being liquidated, that has been going on for a few years and is likely to go on for a few more. Then the club will be wound up, no matter what nonsense Dave King comes away with.

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jean7brodie

jean7brodiePosted on9:13 pm - Mar 22, 2016


The Ungrateful DeadMarch 22, 2016 at 20:13
___________________________________________
And your point is…

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Bawsman

BawsmanPosted on9:24 pm - Mar 22, 2016


HOMUNCULUSMARCH 22, 2016 at 20:31

For the avoidance of doubt, this Celtic supporter never wants to play any form of Rangers……..ever.

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The Ungrateful DeadPosted on10:09 pm - Mar 22, 2016


Homunculus March 22, 2016 at 20:31                                    
                                                       There is no need  for you or I to speak for tens of thousands of people. They will speak for themselves when they fill Hampden. In regard to Rangers you are correct, they are being liquidated, but as I said in my previous post they are alive and well in the hearts and minds of CFC and  those who attend the game at Hampden.

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John ClarkPosted on10:09 pm - Mar 22, 2016


StevieBCMarch 22, 2016 at 18:35
‘…..Just read an interesting article in the WSJ, about the huge Chinese company Dalian Wanda, [owned by China’s richest person], having agreed a major sponsorship deal with FIFA – and covering the next 4 World Cups….’
__________
StevieBC, thanks for posting that. Rather than subscribe to the WSJ but interested in reading more, I had a look at Dalian Wanda’s ‘news’ item about itself , which  can be found on this link :

http://www.wanda-group.com/2016/latest_0321/1148.html
It looks as though the People’s Republic intends to put stacks of money [= ‘politic/cultural influence] into world soccer.
The USA with its very, very,  slow appreciation that it simply won’t convert the world to baseball and American Football, has probably missed the opportunity to seize the football moral high ground, having left it too late to do anything other than complain about FIFA corruption, some of which involved its own national association’s people.
It would be an exaggeration to say that the Chancellories of the western world may be buzzing with concern, but there will be some discussion about this fairly significant cultural move by (in effect, China, rather than a business corporation), on top of the big economic moves in Australia, Africa and the Pacific Rim/Central Asia.
We could be in for interesting times in the world of football.
Indeed, any football-minded business-school undergrad should get right into perfecting his Mandarin!

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TrisidiumPosted on10:12 pm - Mar 22, 2016


Jean,

I think the point The Ungrateful Dead makes is that in his view, Celtic are sending the Res 12 guys away for a long stand whilst currying enough favour with their fans (through that ‘encouragement’ to annoy the Bejasus out of the UEFA dead letter office) to ensure a maxed out attendance against Rangers.

On a similar point, and one in which ecoBhoy took a lot of flack when he was here, for his belief that the Celtic fans would vote with their feet on the OCNC issue at the first Celtic v Rangers games.

I think Stuart Cosgrove’s point about Celtic having schizophrenic tendencies resonates with ecoBhoy’s thoughts as well. On the one hand, Rangers are a new club, but on the other, a lot more of them want to ensure attendance at THAT game, thus legitimising the return of the OF.

Where I think The Ungrateful Dead is in error is to paint all Celtic fans with that brush. I reckon most Celtic fans on here would insist they would not see the semi-final as any more special than if they were playing Hibs for example. 

The sad fact is that away from our wee corner of opinion, a huge fraction of the Celtic support see it differently. 

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John ClarkPosted on10:42 pm - Mar 22, 2016


TrisidiumMarch 22, 2016 at 22:12
‘……..away from our wee corner of opinion….’
________
Let me amend that little slip of your keyboard finger, Trisidium: what you meant, of course, was ‘….our big corner of Fact.’
We know the facts.
Others also know the facts but are prepared to deliberately ignore them, for personal and/or other profit.
Others again do NOT know the facts, but are merely sheepish followers  of the cant, the untruths,  and the general ‘Big Lie’ nonsense propagated by the SMSM.
These may number thousands, nay, even tens of thousands.
Many of these appear to have a visceral hatred of any concept of a ‘Rangers’ strong enough  to blind them to the fact that by dignifying the semi, by turning up to  watch the real live embodiment  of Football Administrative Cheating and Impersonation, they are playing into the hands of the concept they supposedly hate.
Even a resounding victory over a cheat of club is no victory for football, and the foolish readiness to play against a cheat of a club merely emboldens an already extremely dodgy Football Administration in doing any further dirty deed they might wish to do, to enrich themselves and the clubs that put money before sporting principle.
It will all end badly- for Scottish Football.

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jean7brodie

jean7brodiePosted on10:46 pm - Mar 22, 2016


Thanks for that Tris.
I agree with the ‘long stand’ suggestion and probably ‘sent them away for a tin of tartan paint’.
I, perhaps mistakenly, viewed it as a criticism of all CFC fans with no mention of other clubs.
Sorry if I am mistaken.

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Homunculus

HomunculusPosted on11:11 pm - Mar 22, 2016


Celtic have already played Rangers, on 1st February 2015.

It was in the League Cup and it was played at Hampden Park.

51,000 people attended and Celtic won 2-0.

How is Celtic’s second game against Rangers any different from that. In what way would it validate the lie that it is the same Rangers which is in liquidation if the Celtic support turned up … again.

The Celtic support will probably attend the Cup semi-final in good numbers. It is because they want to see their team play in the national cup semi-final, hoping that they will go on to win a double. I don’t think it is any more than that.

In what way has the support of every other club who have turned out to watch their team play against Rangers validated the lie it was the same club. Rangers have not got to this stage without playing other teams, supporters of other teams have presumably attended those games. How is this different.

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John ClarkPosted on12:26 am - Mar 23, 2016


HomunculusMarch 22, 2016 at 23:11
‘…….Rangers have not got to this stage without playing other teams, supporters of other teams have presumably attended those games. How is this different.’
________
The Scottish cup is the creature of the SFA, (as distinct from the Leagues). It is the oldest club football trophy in the world.The pinnacle of football sporting achievement, ‘open-top bus’ stuff, a trophy that can be aspired to by ‘diddy’ clubs and amateur clubs.
Under the present administration, sporting achievement has had its eye spat into and made a mockery of.
That’s why there is the difference.

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jimboPosted on7:23 am - Mar 23, 2016


A lot of what has been posted since yesterday chimes with my contributions in the recent past.

There is a sector of Celtic fans, and the same goes for other clubs, who are in blissful ignorance of the politics and corruption surrounding football in Scotland.
They go to watch football, nothing else, and support their team.  Either they don’t go on to the blogosphere or they go on to sites which talk about football in a narrower sense.

Take etims for example.  Ralph Malph has recently taken up the cause of Res. 12. (He is usually very funny but gets serious points across similar to The Clumpany).  There was a bit of a backlash from some posters who don’t want to engage in this boring stuff.  Others did, but it quickly went on to talking about what etim posters love talking about – The Board, Ronny D., tactics, formation, selections, referees etc. etc.

If you visit the sites that I do – SFM, CQN, Celtic Blog, Johnjames, Phil Mac.,   It’s easy to get the impression that we are numerous but we are not.  All of us have for whatever reason a keen interest in the governance of the game.  How many young people are interested in Politics?  It’s a turn off. Same goes for a lot of fans.

With regards to attending Glasgow derbies I do not see it as a reflection of anything that we are fighting for.  Speaking for my own club, it would be anathema for our support to see Celtic take to the pitch against any Rangers without a big support behind them.  That is why I said I can’t see any major boycotts happening at this point in time anyway.  It’s why I said it’s up to us keyboard warriors, us bampots to keep leading the charge.

Maybe think in terms of Football matches with supporters going to games not interested in the politics, and us lot going with them or on the side of them shouting for sporting integrity.  The two concepts needn’t be mutually exclusive.

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Kilgore TroutPosted on7:33 am - Mar 23, 2016


John Clark @ 00:26

I think you mean ‘open-top Holding Company Vehicle’.

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Reiver

ReiverPosted on8:45 am - Mar 23, 2016


Jimbo
Like you I jump between a few sites and what you see on the ones that have like/dislike facilities is that the maximum like/dislikes is around about 100. If only 10% of readers use the facility(I am rarely one but I believe the percentage to be higher) then you are talking about 1000 readers on a site like this and that is not 1000 different readers per site. A day or two back I opined that about 5000 people max knew the details of what is going on but I believe that I am too generous with that figure. We also have to accept that many of those know but don’t care.
We can bitch as much as we like amongst ourselves about the injustice of this but until we start engaging those on the terraces(showing my age) we are tilting at windmills. It won’t be points regarding justice and integrity that will gain their attention it will be the far more base, personal things. You can observe that by getting them to discuss biased referees or dodgy cup draws. Having said that, I don’t want to go there because that is not cleaning up our sport. There is enough examples of wrongdoing without engaging in paranoia.
I think what I am saying is that I do not know the answer. Until someone comes up with one then I will continue to prod and probe individuals in the game and the media and hope that someone with a bit of clout comes on board. Basically, I am like every other fan hoping a sugar daddy comes to fulfill my dreams.

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easyJamboPosted on8:58 am - Mar 23, 2016


I notice that the High Court Roll for w/c 18 April has the next Fraudco preliminary hearing scheduled for Tuesday 19 April.  The list only shows three accused in Whyte, Withey and Grier, which I guess is confirmation that Green, Whitehouse and Clark have no charges against them in the latest version of the indictment.  

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TheClumpanyPosted on9:35 am - Mar 23, 2016


STEVIEBCMARCH 22, 2016 at 19:10 I have only now just read The Clumpany’s latest post today about Big Mike.I can confirm that I did not plagiarise any of his content: great minds think alike…?  
https://theclumpany.wordpress.com/2016/03/22/his-big-mikeness-on-the-run/
____________________________________________________________________

Great minds do indeed think alike, StevieBC!

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jimboPosted on9:39 am - Mar 23, 2016


Reiver,

I’m not too uncomfortable with the size of us ‘antagonists’.  The quality of posters on the relevant sites is what’s important.  And there many top notch investigators, reporters, archivists, commentators to keep us contented.  With a touch of hope that they keep niggling away and achieve some effect.
It’s football.  Just like many people will vote for Labour or the SNP not many will attend the party conference or local meetings.  Activists are pretty rare.

I speak to fans often in the pub.  Sometimes their lack of knowledge surprises me, some are interested and have opinions.  Others just want to talk about the game/ team/ manager.   I put a SFM calendar up in the pub at new year and point to it.  I haven’t seen any come on board that I know of.  Maybe they lurk.  Maybe my powers of persuasion are rubbish. 21

Anyway, you are an activist, keep it up.04

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Carfins FinestPosted on10:00 am - Mar 23, 2016


I think we all agree that with a little helping hand from the SMSM it would be a lot easier to get our message out to a greater audience. So this again begs the question. Who has silenced the media on all things SFA and Sevco? Who in Scotland has this power? Is it the government? Someone/thing this powerful as to silence the media would also be in a position to ensure that their pet football club never dies, never gets investigated properly and never pays its way especially stupid fines form governing body.

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Homunculus

HomunculusPosted on10:22 am - Mar 23, 2016


John ClarkMarch 23, 2016 at 00:26
================================

I disagree with your basic point. The pinnacle of footballing achievement, in any country, is winning the league, not the cup. The best team over a season wins the top division of the league.

Even if we accept your position, Rangers played other teams to get to the semi-final of the cup. Did the supporters of Cowdenbeath, Kilmarnock and Dundee turn up to watch their team play. In doing so did they somehow validate Rangers as being the same club which is being liquidated.

This is not the first year Rangers have competed in the Scottish cup. As I understand it they have competed in the last three seasons. Presumably they played several teams during those season and at least some of the other team’s supporters turned up to watch the games. Did all of those clubs and fans, in doing this, express their belief that this was the same Rangers.

Celtic are playing Rangers in the semi-final of the Scottish cup this season. How is this any different from every other club which has played them in the same competition since the club was formed way back in 2012.

This is exactly the type of thinking which allows the likes of Reagan and the media say that this is a Celtic Rangers thing.

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alexander276Posted on11:28 am - Mar 23, 2016


Apropos broadening the base, I think the archive idea can be linked to handing out business size cards at games with maybe a statement of the breach of integrity on one side and how to access the site on the other. The folk we need are at the games not reading ads in the press. The fact is if we get someone to look casually at this site they will not be sucked in. They will need to be on side before they commit to reading themselves up to speed.
We need to make the sort of evidence that runs through this site  more easily grasped. 

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Reiver

ReiverPosted on12:07 pm - Mar 23, 2016


I like the sounds of that Alex276.

So simple and even the stuff that is thrown away(I am not approving of litter) still has the message.

I’d be happy to print them.

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Reiver

ReiverPosted on12:10 pm - Mar 23, 2016


The difficult part would be to let them know what their next move is if they are interested. Something definite but brief.

https://www.change.org/p/scottish-football-association-return-integrity-to-football-administration-in-scotland-94421b40-2d6b-4d4b-9cff-912c9849478f

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B_X7aVh2s6qcS1hhamJ0czlkdVU

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jimboPosted on12:31 pm - Mar 23, 2016


Carfins FinestMarch 23, 2016 at 10:00 15 2 i Rate This 
I think we all agree that with a little helping hand from the SMSM it would be a lot easier to get our message out to a greater audience. So this again begs the question. Who has silenced the media on all things SFA and Sevco? Who in Scotland has this power? Is it the government?
==========================
I put a lot of thought into this very point in the past.  It is intriguing.  Here might be the answer:

Demographic – Editorial policy – Reporter’s output.

it works for politics as well.

I posited (the new buzz word) some months ago that it is all about this.  What I couldn’t understand is that let’s say 40% of the readership in Scotland is ‘Rangers’ minded, that still leaves the majority, not.

Then I spoke to a knowledgeable man who first of all told me I was being generous with my 40% figure but geography comes into it.

It’s the Glasgow based media aspect.  It goes without saying that Radio Clyde and the Evening Times are local.  So maybe they have a higher potential audience of Ibrox fans than let’s say the Scotsman. 21

With regards to the national dailies, The Record & The Herald, their demographic is still weighted heavily to the West of Scotland.

Celtic supporters have all but given up on the Record, I don’t know of one single supporter who buys it.  No it’s The Sun if anything.  (If the Sun is seen to be just about acceptable heaven knows what that says about the Record).

The Record knows this, hence their policy.  The Herald has a history which I don’t want to go into here.

So what happened in 2012?

This is conjecture but I think from the beginning of 2012, Rangers became front page as well as back page news.  Everyone got caught up in the revelations on a daily basis.  It was red hot news.  The media couldn’t believe what was unfolding in front of them.  Then the unthinkable happened, Rangers were liquidated.  Gasp!.  RIP, end of history etc. etc.  It all made for great front page headlines.

But things eventually calmed down a bit, the new club were admitted to the bottom tier.    A lot of interest shifted to the novelty of the Glasgow giants playing against part timers.  It became ‘a journey’.

And somewhere along the line, the editors thought to themselves, hang on we have hung old Rangers out to dry these past months.  What about our readers?  Time to get back on track folks.  The continuity had begun.  Along with the cover ups and concealments.  We must get back in favour at all costs.

Now they can’t kick the habit.

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steph1895Posted on12:37 pm - Mar 23, 2016


I have boycotted the Scottish Cup this year because of this.
Once the draw was made my two brother-in-laws (all Rangers fans) down south were on the phone hankering for me (a Celtic ST Holder) for tickets.
I explained that I want no part of this at all – enough is enough is enough.
They believe the big lie, as this is what is peddled to them down south by the Murdoch controlled media.
They are amazed that I would want to miss such a big game and with or without tickets, are coming up to be in the pubs in Glasgow to experience all of this hatred and bile, again.
Getting it right up Timmy because of their relegation out of the top league blah blah……….
They both to a man have not seen a game in about 20 years.
Their naivity (even though they are 58 and 62 respectively) is that if Rangers are not the same club, why hasn’t it been reported in the press (no laughing at the back) or the footballing authorities told the footballing world that they are a new club.
When I explain to them that commercialism is preferred to sporting integrity, they just brush it off as being a typical Tim!!
I was not born to this rivalry. I am an Englishman who happened to be dragged to Hampden Park in 1970 as a 7 year old, by my Leeds Utd loving Father (God Rest His Soul).
I couldn’t give a monkeys what Rangers fans think; it is there perogative to support whoever they want and of course claim whatever they want.
This corruption gives me what my good lady says “the boak” and the sooner this cancer is removed from Scottish Football, the better myself and probably thousands of other honest football fans would feel.
I would love to be a fly on the wall IF ONE OR ALL of the creditors stormed Hampden DEMANDING their invoices paid in full – now there is a strategy to pursue.
My season ticket may not be renewed next year as we all believe that the prices will increased to accommodate the glorious journey team.
I have better ways of spending my Saturday afternoons or whatever day Scottish footballing authorities decides scheduling games to sell its soul to television.
Football in the 21st Century is as far from grass roots as distance to the moon.06

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TaysiderPosted on2:57 pm - Mar 23, 2016


I maybe wrong but I sense a slightly dispirited mood on SFM recently. A few big picture thoughts:
In terms of the authorities, there is disappointment at what has amounted to a minimise, deflect and it’s time to move on and not be obsessed approach to concerns raised by the years of systemic cheating by one club. This has to be put in context. These authorities attempted an unprecedented course of action in 2012. A club had broken the rules for years on player registrations, paid players without accounting for tax on their earnings, notwithstanding that had spent more than they could afford in trying to out-compete their main rival and as a result gone bust, many creditors losing large sums in the process. We all knew what would happen in these circumstances, given precedents. Except we didn’t. The authorities attempted to have a club with the same name continue in the top flight of Scottish football. That was pretty amazing and led Turnbull Hutton to use the “C” word! Authorities capable of that cannot be expected to accept that there have been faults in the way they administered the rules, not after such brazen attempts at distortion to arrive at a totally unjustified outcome given the facts of how we got there.
As for the MSM, well maybe we shouldn’t be totally surprised at the narrative that has been established. When it needs a highly respected war correspondent to ask the right questions, when Mark Daly (I believe?) was encouraged to think it was time to investigate other stuff, when a manager could ask who are these people and it led to all sorts of intimidation… Remember this: 
http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/threats-silence-intimidation-rangers-fans/2873
Most of us I’m afraid don’t have the courage of Mr Thomson to the extent that they will risk invoking such a response by their words, especially if their boss / editor has no interest in supporting them. What could happen to a BBC Sports reporter who dared to comment that some people regarded a club as having died!
I applaud those like Auldheid who have the resolve to pursue Resolution 12 but sense that tactics involving delay, deferral, deflection whatever to drag this out will continue to be deployed n a hope that this all fades away. If it took 30 years to get a proper enquiry on Hillsborough, how long do we expect in a no fatalities situation?
In other words, in respect of the authorities and the MSM nothing has changed nor appears likely to change and that should unfortunately come as no surprise. Years ago I was taught that in terms of a business negotiation you have to consider where the power lies. Power is often entwined with money. So the one time when the authorities didn’t get what they wanted was as a result of No to Newco which threatened the clubs’ money. They had to change their plans. Ultimately that threat may be required again.
The fact that the authorities could not be trusted was widely appreciated in 2012, so it will be far easier to accept if they try again to create an uneven playing field. If they blatantly attempt to do so, we know what works. Fans of virtually all clubs were involved in No To Newco. It wasn’t a Celtic / Rangers issue. It wasn’t a kick them when they were down issue. It was an apply the rules fairly issue. Simple. 
2012 demonstrated the power of alternative media. If we hadn’t had the internet I very much doubt No To Newco would have happened. For many out there the MSM is broken. We know about the declining newspaper sales. I don’t know what the listening figures are for Sportsound but I wouldn’t be surprised if they are also plummeting. I listen for light entertainment to stuff like the Michael Stewart / Billy Brown chumble fest 02last night. But I don’t listen to it for analysis of the serious issues. If it had any authority it has lost it.
If I want the latest I come here, a site with a track record for thoughtful, considered analysis of the facts. If the authorities are blatantly trying to interfere with the principle of operating the rules without fear or favour I’ll look here to first be alerted to it. I’m sure fans of most clubs now trust the internet more than anywhere else to find out what is happening. 
Here we will continue to find out what the media forget to tell us, especially if the authorities again forget what the rules are for. The MSM, the authorities, they may not have changed… but we have.

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TheClumpanyPosted on4:03 pm - Mar 23, 2016


Good Afternoon. 
Anyone fancy a free seminar?!
http://www.terrafirmachambers.com/seminars.html?seminar_id=139
TN Seminar: ‘Rangers: Onwards and Upwards’
The Edinburgh Tax Network, in conjunction with Terra Firma Chambers, will present a seminar entitled “Rangers – Onwards and Upwards” on Thursday 31st March 2016 at the Mackenzie Building, Old Assembly Close, Edinburgh.
At this event, David Small, Advocate, and Roddy MacLeod, Devil, will consider Advocate General (HMRC) v Murray Group Holdings Ltd [2015] CSIH 77, and in particular the majority and minority decisions in the First-tier Tribunal, how and why HMRC won in the Court of Session, and prospects on appeal to the Supreme Court.
Registration will commence at 12.30pm with the seminar starting at 1pm.  It has been accredited by the Faculty of Advocates as contributing 1 hour CPD for its own members and is eligible for a similar award from the Law Society for the solicitor branch of the profession.
Thanks to sponsorship from Wesleyan, there is no charge for attendance, however, prior booking is necessary.  For full details see attached. To reserve a space please email seminars@terrafirmachambers.com.
TC
As always you can find me at https://theclumpany.wordpress.com/

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John ClarkPosted on5:20 pm - Mar 23, 2016


TaysiderMarch 23, 2016 at 14:57
‘……….Sportsound …………….. I listen for light entertainment to stuff like the Michael Stewart / Billy Brown chumble fest 02last night. But I don’t listen to it for analysis of the serious issues. If it had any authority it has lost it…’
_________
There was one interesting observation from the lips of Kenny Mac, Taysider, which you may have heard: He related how, when Traynor was being accused of giving Mr Smith, former manager of the club called Rangers that was Liquidated in  2012, an ‘easy ride’, Traynor agreed that he did indeed, because he knew that to do otherwise would cost him the ‘back page exclusive’.
It is not any surprise to us (except perhaps we might have thought , by his physical shape, he was more interested in free meals of succulent lamb!) that Traynor is so lacking in journalistic principle.
But I was a little surprised that McIntyre
a) felt brave enough to ‘break ranks’ and
b) that he felt able to imply that a question of integrity did arise when journos or ‘pundits’  chose to avoid making honest statements of professional opinion on the performance of teams, managers, clubs, out of fear of consequences for their earning capacity.
Could it  be that Kenny boy has some kind of conscience? and that there might be hope that he may  yet blossom forth as a journalistic truth seeker?
Would that that were the case!
 

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Corrupt official

Corrupt officialPosted on6:05 pm - Mar 23, 2016


Interesting. A seminar  on Rangers(I.L.) tax. Info courtesy of Clumps

http://www.terrafirmachambers.com/seminars.html?seminar_id=139

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TaysiderPosted on6:15 pm - Mar 23, 2016


JOHN CLARKMARCH 23, 2016 at 17:20
No I didn’t hear that JC. I find that periodically I change station or turn the volume down almost as a reflex action. 
Not surprised by the anecdote of course, that is “well behaved” journalists getting the juicy stories along with the juicy lamb! As for Kenny Mac becoming a journalistic truth seeker, well I guess anything is possible but I won’t get my hopes up! 02

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John ClarkPosted on6:47 pm - Mar 23, 2016


Corrupt officialMarch 23, 2016 at 18:05
‘… A seminar on Rangers(I.L.) tax. Info courtesy of Clumps..’
__________
Grateful to Clumps and you, Corrupt Official.
The apparently partisan title of the seminar [ ” Rangers: Onward and upwards”] would make me question the objectivity of any conclusion drawn ( whatever  that conclusion!): the last thing I would want in a lawyer is an inability to stay absolutely focused on the law as it is rather than through the prism of his personal predilections!
There have, have their not, been instances in recent times of otherwise clever men being led by their greed for financial gain to believe  that the law says what they would like it to say, or what struck-off  lawyers with a side-line in pornography say it is.

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upthehoopsPosted on7:31 pm - Mar 23, 2016


JOHN CLARKMARCH 23, 2016 at 17:20
======================

Interesting to hear that one from Kenny Mac. Of course it is no surprise to most of us that Journalists / pundits may sometimes refrain from being absolutely honest because it could have a negative impact on them depending on the club / person they are being asked to opine on. As a Celtic fan I am not convinced all the ex-Celtic players in the media are as anti-Celtic as they sound. I simply believe that is the way they have to be to get employment in the Scottish media. 

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TheClumpanyPosted on8:21 pm - Mar 23, 2016


CORRUPT OFFICIALMARCH 23, 2016 at 18:05 12 0 Rate This
Interesting. A seminar on Rangers(I.L.) tax. Info courtesy of Clumps
_____
Thanks Corrupt Official. The first place I tried to post details of that seminar was on SFM as it seemed of interest to members. Posted it at 1603 but it is still in ‘moderation’!

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ianagain

ianagainPosted on9:48 pm - Mar 23, 2016


Go on JC
Cause a wee stushie. Its free too. 02

ETN Seminar: ‘Rangers: Onwards and Upwards’The Edinburgh Tax Network, in conjunction with Terra Firma Chambers, will present a seminar entitled “Rangers – Onwards and Upwards” on Thursday 31st March 2016 at the Mackenzie Building, Old Assembly Close, Edinburgh.
At this event, David Small, Advocate, and Roddy MacLeod, Devil, will consider Advocate General (HMRC) v Murray Group Holdings Ltd [2015] CSIH 77, and in particular the majority and minority decisions in the First-tier Tribunal, how and why HMRC won in the Court of Session, and prospects on appeal to the Supreme Court.
Registration will commence at 12.30pm with the seminar starting at 1pm.  It has been accredited by the Faculty of Advocates as contributing 1 hour CPD for its own members and is eligible for a similar award from the Law Society for the solicitor branch of the profession.
Thanks to sponsorship from Wesleyan, there is no charge for attendance, however, prior booking is necessary.  For full details see attached. To reserve a space please email seminars@terrafirmachambers.com.

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John ClarkPosted on11:50 pm - Mar 23, 2016


ianagainMarch 23, 2016 at 21:48
‘…Cause a wee stushie. Its free too. ”
______
I’d swear to God there was a line in the advert that said ‘it is open to everyone’ because for a moment I thought of asking did they mean ‘everyone’ like joe public, or only everyone in the legal profession who might be interested! I reasoned that they meant only the latter. Correctly it seems, because that line has disappeared.
I might have been interested in seeing how many new club ‘onwards and upwards’ supporting establishment tax-lawyers might have manifested themselves!02

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jimboPosted on7:24 am - Mar 24, 2016


Just had a wee look through the Moderation thread of the first three months of 2015.  My goodness it seems like a different board.  Very engaging and debates on both sides.  I was heading to retirement and the financial year end results for 1 April so no time to be on here.  But it is now interesting reading.  There were some good posters who rarely come on here now.

Are we moderating ourselves too much?  It is after all a football forum. 

For instance  I like talking about referees and their incompetence.  Is there not a place for football governance and blatant deficiencies in the SFA run refereeing ‘system’ in Scotland. There surely is a place for this on the same site?  This should not be off topic to me.

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upthehoopsPosted on7:24 am - Mar 24, 2016


JOHN CLARKMARCH 23, 2016 at 23:50
=======================

The fact this event is called ‘Rangers, onwards and upwards’ says a lot to me. Personally I think much of the establishment, including some in the legal establishment, simply laugh at those of us who want to see genuine justice handed out over this whole saga. The very fact that Regan And Doncaster remain in place and the media refuse to even mention what they did, and also tried to do, says it all. For me, Scottish football governance appears to be the last bastion of how Scotland was as a country five decades ago, and two Englishmen have walked in and bought right into it. Like many I often wonder why I bother, but my club has done nothing wrong so I tend to stick with it, no matter the level of contempt 41 out of 42 clubs are treated with. There simply can’t be any other democratic country in the world where the national football association would be allowed to behave as the SFA do and not be publicly challenged. Does anyone really believe the FA in England would get away with handing a new Manchester United all the trophies of a liquidated Manchester United? Does anyone really believe the English media would sit in compliant silence if they did? Does anyone really believe several English MP’s would demand Manchester Utd should not have to pay the same tax as other clubs?

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scottc

scottcPosted on7:57 am - Mar 24, 2016


JOHN CLARK
MARCH 23, 2016 at 23:50 11 0  Rate This 
ianagainMarch 23, 2016 at 21:48‘…Cause a wee stushie. Its free too. ”______I’d swear to God there was a line in the advert that said ‘it is open to everyone’ because for a moment I thought of asking did they mean ‘everyone’ like joe public, or only everyone in the legal profession who might be interested! I reasoned that they meant only the latter. Correctly it seems, because that line has disappeared.I might have been interested in seeing how many new club ‘onwards and upwards’ supporting establishment tax-lawyers might have manifested themselves! ‘

That line was most certainly there, John, and generally they would have meant Joe P, but I assume they have been inundated with requests and got themselves in a panic, so pulled the line. Sounds like it could have the potential to be an interesting debate

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AuldheidPosted on9:12 am - Mar 24, 2016


John Clark

Have Mr McCrae or Mr Broadfooit replied yet to your follow up letter asking some questions about the commissioning of LNS?

It’s not as if they don’t know who you are.

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Reiver

ReiverPosted on9:19 am - Mar 24, 2016


Dear Mr Reiver
 
Thank you for your recent communication.
As a matter of policy, the club makes no comment on any private individuals’ petition to any organisation.
 
Kind regards
 Denise Oldham 
Heart of Midlothian plc

I, of course replied.

“Thank you for your communication Denise although I do find it disappointing. This is not about a petition. This is about the rules and ethos of a sport being flouted by the administrators. I suppose though, because the clubs are the SFA, that your club’s policy means that it’s board is aware, and approves of the actions. Disappointing for a club that boasts of fan participation in its running that it takes part in the policies that ultimately deny its supporters the right to watch an untainted sport.I am sure you are aware that these actions being taken in the name of our petition are not an isolated occurrence. There is currently pressure being applied by shareholders of Celtic FC asking their board to act on Resolution 12 and demand that UEFA investigates the SFA’s breach of its rules on financial fair play.I would imagine it would be embarrassing for Hearts and FOH when it is shown that they chose not to act when evidence of malpractice was laid before them.
This is not going away.
A Reiver”

https://www.change.org/p/scottish-football-association-return-integrity-to-football-administration-in-scotland-94421b40-2d6b-4d4b-9cff-912c9849478f

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B_X7aVh2s6qcS1hhamJ0czlkdVU

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bordersdonPosted on9:21 am - Mar 24, 2016


Sorry Up The Hoops I think your club, and every other club, have done something wrong. They have allowed things to happen when they should have been acting with (the much used word) integrity!!!

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LUGOSI

LUGOSIPosted on10:27 am - Mar 24, 2016


The seminar on Advocate General (HMRC) v Murray Group Holdings [2015] CSIH 77 would be worth seeing if only because I note that one of those considering the decision is The Devil.
While he, or she, is within the jurisdiction a view could be sought on glibness, lamb ingesting, metaphysics, rule bending or ignoring, finagling, dubious song chanting, disrespect, liquidation denial, creditor stiffing, financial smoke and mirrors, lying about contractual side letters, diverting charity funds, rabble rousing, not paying social taxes et cetera.
If you’re looking for an expert opinion on what happens upon death after living a dodgy life I think The Devil must be the go-to guy.
It’s possible any question could be directed to The Devil’s easy reference tick list; The Seven Deadly Sins.
Pride.
Greed.
Lust.
Envy.
Gluttony.
Wrath.
Sloth.
Do any of these apply?
Do any not?

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John ClarkPosted on10:45 am - Mar 24, 2016


AuldheidMarch 24, 2016 at 09:12
‘John Clark,
Have Mr McCrae or Mr Broadfooit replied yet to your follow up letter..?’
______
Not having  been  terribly impressed,Auldheid, by their administrative efficiency in the basics of even acknowledging correspondence let alone actually dealing with questions raised therein, I decided to give them far longer to reply than strict courtesy demands before I send them a reminder. (And then there was the little frisson of excitement on word that there might be something developing on  the Res 12 issue)
Your post has served to remind me that a reminder is now due, and I will ensure that such a reminder is posted to the 6th floor to arrive by early next week.

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wottpiPosted on11:44 am - Mar 24, 2016


Having previously worked in local government for a while I am well aware of the amount of dross that arrives in the mail box from council tax payers with an axe to grind.
Included in that dross is the stuff generated by the ‘professional and hardened complainer’.
It has to be said that using the 80/20 rule a good deal of the mail received, in relation to the area I worked in, could have be classed as irrelevant and, to save the overall tax payer’s money, could have simply be ignored as opposed to generating more paper and wasted effort. However out of common courtesy and good practice a reply of some form or another was sent out never the less.

That being said it was always recognised that in among the dross there were some issues raised that needed to be taken seriously and some effort put  into investigating matters, and formulating a reply and taking froward if necessary.

I am sure the likes of Tesco and other private businesses with thousands of customers also try to take appropriate heed of the 20% of  reasonable complaints and act accordingly, even if the complainer may not like the answer provided.

Our footballing authorities and the clubs themselves need to get into the 21st century and realise that the ignoring/do nothing approach just isn’t cutting it.

Whether or not you agree with how they arrived at the end result I believe, given the issues involved, the paying customer of the Scoottish game deserves some form of response regarding  the issues raised by the 5 Way Agreement and the issuing of the Euro License to the football club playing out of Ibrox at the relevant times.

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bluPosted on11:59 am - Mar 24, 2016


John Clark:

“The apparently partisan title of the seminar [ ” Rangers: Onward and upwards”] would make me question the objectivity of any conclusion drawn ( whatever that conclusion!): the last thing I would want in a lawyer is an inability to stay absolutely focused on the law as it is rather than through the prism of his personal predilections!”

John, I don’t think that the seminar title is a pro-Rangers thing, rather it’s more what might pass for humour in tax lawyer circles as a reference to the passage of the case up the legal system. Or maybe, I’m not as sceptical as I ought to be.

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Big PinkPosted on12:38 pm - Mar 24, 2016


Recipients of Celtic mail shots advertising match tickets would have been surprised today to see that the name of the club’s opponent in the Scottish cup semi final missing from latest missive.
Greenock Morton get a name check, but Rangers don’t. Generic references to the occasion only. Strange?

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paddy malarkey

paddy malarkeyPosted on1:07 pm - Mar 24, 2016


RIP Johan Cruyff .

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CastofthousandsPosted on1:09 pm - Mar 24, 2016


Recent comments concerning the inability to air concerns over football governance in the wider media have been a feature of SFM and RTC before it. It is clear (and highly educational in my opinion) that media agenda is not driven by events but is led to a significant extent by an underlying narrative.
That the wider football supporting public is largely unaware of the controversies communicated here and elsewhere I believe does not have to be a brake on the debate. Football is not or should not be about tax law, quasi-judicial rulings, wider financial governance issues or disputes over legal ownership of assets of any particular club. Football is about football and most fans and supporters will adhere to this simple tenet.
However those operating within the media are not your average football fan. They will be sufficiently humble to credit themselves with insight and intelligence and will likely view your average football supporter with some measure of disdain. These media operators comprise a select extract of the football supporting public and are not representative of Mr. J. Bloggs outlook. They will care about the stuff we take an interest in because it is clear that they take an interest in it too; despite any feigning to the contrary.
You can run but you can’t hide and the media may be able to keep the ignorant in ignorance but they are self aware of their own strategies. They will care deeply I suspect that a small yet vocal minority are constantly uncovering evidence they wish to be buried. They will not be able to ignore it no matter how hard they pretend to do so. Though not a Radio Clyde consumer, by reputation I think the likes of Mr. Keevins illustrates amply that his type ‘doth protest too much’. They give the game away with their faux displays of ignorance.
Keep getting under their skin. They can’t ignore it no matter how they try. The only narrative they control is the narrative for which they have little respect. Whilst they strive for respectability and credibility they know they are being laughed at and they won’t like that one bit. I can’t follow this saga as much as I used to but if these characters are allowed to get away with their calumny without retribution then they will kick that door wide open. Never believe their mantra because you know it isn’t true.

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John ClarkPosted on1:56 pm - Mar 24, 2016


Big PinkMarch 24, 2016 at 12:38
‘..Recipients of Celtic mail shots advertising match tickets would have been surprised today to see that the name of the club’s opponent in the Scottish cup semi final missing from latest missive…….Strange?’
_________
Not strange at all, BP. Just a clumsy attempt to minimise the risk of losing cash by appearing too ready to endorse the bloody ‘Old Firm’ nonsense.
Even the best temporisers and ‘real politiks’ practitioners ultimately stumble in their attempts to disguise untruth as truth. It simply cannot be effectively done, not even in the short term.
This attempt by Celtic to try to appear innocent of endorsing the BIG LIE is , I fear, redolent of the delaying tactics they employed against their own shareholders and their ‘washing their hands’ of responsibility for pursuing justice in the matter of Res 12,like the frightened and cynical Pilate of old,hoping cynically that by delaying, the whole issue might go away.
Of course, no matter how many Celtic fans turn up to watch a phony game, the issue will not go away.It simply cannot.
I am told that the UK Parliament has the authority to pass an Act of Parliament to declare that black is white. Maybe. But, of course, black would still be black, and white ,white.
The SFA might say that Sevco5088(or SevcoScotland, whichever of the charlatan’s creations is the legal one) and/or Rangers 2012 and /or RIFC/TRFC is the same club as Rangers FC of 18-oatcake( still alive,but only on the mechanical life-support system of Liquidation)
But, of course, it isn’t.
Not even if every constituent member of the SFA were to swear on a stack of Bibles that it is.

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Corrupt official

Corrupt officialPosted on3:24 pm - Mar 24, 2016


@BP
 I would have a lot more respect for Celtic, if instead of ignoring who they were playing in the semi, they stated categorically who they considered who they were playing. They do not need to go over-board. A stated fact will do
     Stewart Regan seems to think it is all about opinions, so lets hear Celtic’s opinion. We hear Sevco’s often enough, in every statement, tweet, and news report. 
   That “opinion” needs challenged, and the best way to do so, is to offer up an alternative “opinion”
   Ignoring the issue is either cowardly, or complicity, imo. 

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StevieBC

StevieBCPosted on3:57 pm - Mar 24, 2016


CASTOFTHOUSANDSMARCH 24, 2016 at 13:09Recent comments concerning the inability to air concerns over football governance in the wider media have been a feature of SFM and RTC before it. It is clear (and highly educational in my opinion) that media agenda is not driven by events but is led to a significant extent by an underlying narrative…
================================
And that’s what got me hooked since RTC days: not so much about RFC/TRFC but about how the SMSM ‘manages’ a story.
[Separately, I am now also more concerned about the distinct lack of proper governance in football: from the SFA to FIFA.] 

The TRFC/SMSM saga has re-emphasised to the average punter – myself included – that the MSM chooses what to report, what to focus on – and what to play down or simply ignore.
The SMSM generally, has amply displayed for all to see that it has no shame when reporting on ‘just’ Scottish football matters.
But now that a lot more Bampots are aware, you can’t help but notice how some stories don’t appear in the MSM, or are ‘brushed over’ – but are reported and discussed in detail online.  And of course, this applies to serious and significant stories, not just the footie !

So, perhaps we should all – in a perverse way – be a little bit grateful for the Ibrox/Hampden meltdowns, as we are instinctively a lot more discerning now wrt MSM output.  We typically seek alternative sources of news online, and to confirm – or otherwise – what the real story is – or what agenda is being peddled by the MSM.

…which must be one positive outcome from this ‘omnishambles’ !  22

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easyJamboPosted on4:33 pm - Mar 24, 2016


@ John Clark – another date for your court diary.

Friday 13th May – Summar Roll
 
P1127/15 Reclaiming Motion (Lord Doherty) Note: The Rangers FC Group Ltd re: Adjudication of Claim – Ennova Law – Brodies LLP

I assume that this appeal is a follow up to the hearing you attended a couple of weeks ago.

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tony

tonyPosted on5:17 pm - Mar 24, 2016


CORRUPT OFFICIAL
ive not seen anything about the semi final,can you explain what you mean 

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John ClarkPosted on6:27 pm - Mar 24, 2016


easyJamboMarch 24, 2016 at 16:33
‘…Friday 13th May – Summar Roll P1127/15 Reclaiming Motion (Lord Doherty) Note: The Rangers FC Group Ltd re: Adjudication of Claim – Ennova Law – Brodies LLP…’
______
Thank you, eJ: diary suitably noted.
I have to say on the basis of no legal training whatsoever that if this motion is allowed I’ll be very impressed.
There’s other business coming up before then,of course. See you in court!02

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IniquitousIVPosted on6:33 pm - Mar 24, 2016


Corrupt Official
The official site, CelticFC.net, under “Fixtures” lists the opponent on April 17 as simply, “Rangers,” not even  
“The Rangers”.   
In contrast to the title of this particular blog item, Celtic appear to be “Looking Forward to Look Back.”
IniquitousIV

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Corrupt official

Corrupt officialPosted on6:41 pm - Mar 24, 2016


TONYMARCH 24, 2016 at 17:17
      “ive not seen anything about the semi final,can you explain what you mean”
    —————————————————————————————————
   Yeah no probs Tony. Celtic have posted ticket allocation details for the semi-final, but managed to do so in the least controversial fashion possible. By making no mention of who their opponents will be.
   Sevco however, have been releasing the usual O**F*** blurbs including games played/won/drawn stats, dating back to roughly 140 years before they even existed. 
   If CFC are genuine in their so called attempts at being dis-associated from the O**F*** tag, they should not be allowing 50% of the tie-makers to include them in it.

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John ClarkPosted on6:55 pm - Mar 24, 2016


StevieBCMarch 24, 2016 at 15:57
‘…….we are instinctively a lot more discerning now wrt MSM output. ‘
________
I very much agree with what you say. I would merely add that of course any newspaper or TV station (including the BBC) has to be free to choose what items of ‘news’ to cover, and I am happy to accept that Editors may choose how a story should be presented ( although the BBC has to be particularly careful not to be seen to be anything but wholly truthful and impartial and balanced.
What no news medium, least of all the BBC, is entitled to do, is to act as PR for  deliberate fudging of truth or distortion of facts, or to fail to question what passes for ‘facts’ rather than investigate thoroughly before reporting as ‘facts’ things that are plainly untrue, and easily found to be untrue.
This whole saga could have been nipped in the bud if any ‘reporter’ had taken his nose out of SDM’s posterior long enough to check the reality behind his extravagant boasts.Or had even asked persistently why the hell it was taking so long to find a buyer for such a ‘successful’ club. Rational argument and discussion between proper Rangers men might have resulted,  in time to rescue the club.
And real ‘Rangers’ fans are right to have a grievance NOT because the SMSM exposed and told the truth, but because it did NOT, but  rather allowed and encouraged them ,by their non-reporting and mis-reporting,  to blindly cheer their club on its way to football extinction.

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tony

tonyPosted on8:06 pm - Mar 24, 2016


CORRUPT OFFICIAL
cheers mate,i think celtic wants this to just go away,it aint

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Corrupt official

Corrupt officialPosted on10:13 pm - Mar 24, 2016


TONYMARCH 24, 2016 at 20:06 
CORRUPT OFFICIALcheers mate,i think celtic wants this to just go away,it aint 
   —————————————————————————————— 
   Too true! All Celtic have done is try not to antagonise their own support. But we do not want them to bow down to us, We don’t want them to bow down to anyone. There are no outward signs that this is happening. My pockets of doubt are running out of benefits.
   I understand their reluctance to not become embroiled in a “West of Scotland” thing……..But there comes a time……….
 

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RPMcMurphyPosted on11:26 pm - Mar 24, 2016


TONYMARCH 24, 2016 at 20:06 CORRUPT OFFICIALcheers mate,i think celtic wants this to just go away,it aint
——————————————
I don’t even care if Res 12 just “goes away” the team that benefitted, did just that. So for me, I can live with that, I can even live with the constant reference from them that they have an unbroken history, however pathetic is is becoming.
What I can’t accept is that Celtic allow the SPFL to allow New Rangers to display another Club’s trophies as their own. Airdrie can’t do it, Clydebank, Gretna they all show pride in what they have become.
And they allowed CO to be re-elected unopposed !

#notapennyuntilyousortit

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bordersdonPosted on12:53 pm - Mar 25, 2016


Is there anybody out there today???

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Reiver

ReiverPosted on1:49 pm - Mar 25, 2016


Bordersdon,

We’re all at the SFM Easter party. Were you not invited.2121

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woodstein

woodsteinPosted on2:16 pm - Mar 25, 2016


Hope this doesn’t spoil the party 03

http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/the-long-road-from-resolution-12/

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Homunculus

HomunculusPosted on2:51 pm - Mar 25, 2016


RPMCMURPHY
MARCH 24, 2016 at 23:26

What I can’t accept is that Celtic allow the SPFL to allow New Rangers to display another Club’s trophies as their own.

==============================================

So do Aberdeen, Breechin, Cowdenbeath, Dundee, East Fife, Greenock Morton, Hearts …

If Celtic are the only club doing or saying anything then Stuart Reagan’s nonsense about it being a West of Scotland Celtic Rangers thing is very difficult to argue woth.

In fact Celtic have played Rangers once since their formation, other clubs have played them several times. Other than a couple of stadium announcers and programme writers who has done or said anything.

If Celtic are in the wrong here then so is every other club as far as I can see.

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Corrupt official

Corrupt officialPosted on3:37 pm - Mar 25, 2016


HOMUNCULUSMARCH 25, 2016 at 14:51

     “If Celtic are in the wrong here then so is every other club as far as I can see.”
  ——————————————————————————————————-
   I 100% agree with that Homunculus, But for me, I don’t fund any other clubs in Scotland. Even away games I only pay to see Celtic play, and buy only their merchandise. Sometimes it is hard to see it from anything other than a personal perspective. 
   If other fans of other clubs are happy to let things continue as they are, then that is their want. I don’t believe many do, but that is neither here nor there.  
   In the absence of a collective conscience, only the personal conscience remains. 
   If Celtic fail to back the Res 12 Bhoys, then for me, they have done it in their troosers. I won’t be hanging around the smell.

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rougvielovesthejunglePosted on3:38 pm - Mar 25, 2016


So one of the most amusing and infuriating things about when the current incarnation eventually go into administration will be the role of all the MSM journalists we have all learned to mock and disrespect.

I guarantee the likes of McIntyre, Wilson, Young and even sadly Richard Gordon will all too a man, conclude on air that they had known for months about the forthcoming demise of ‘Rangers’ but just couldn’t say. It will be another round of 2012esque patronising p1sh.

Amusing and infuriating but ultimately lets hope they don’t get to pull the same p1sh next time round!

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bordersdonPosted on4:06 pm - Mar 25, 2016


                       rougvielovesthejungleMarch 25, 2016 at 15:38 So one of the most amusing and infuriating things about when the current incarnation eventually go into administration will be the role of all the MSM journalists we have all learned to mock and disrespect.
I guarantee the likes of McIntyre, Wilson, Young and even sadly Richard Gordon will all too a man, conclude on air that they had known for months about the forthcoming demise of ‘Rangers’ but just couldn’t say. It will be another round of 2012esque patronising p1sh.
Amusing and infuriating but ultimately lets hope they don’t get to pull the same p1sh next time round!
—————————————————————————————————————————-
Don’t think there is going to be a next time (any time soon anyway) Doug.

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