Look Back to Look Forward

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Look Back to Look Forward

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Everyone on this site has football experiences, views, stories and opinions. Everyone also wants things to be better in the future too. These are bonds that make us who we are and this forum what it is.

I’ll share a few experiences with you now.

I will never forget an impromptu and inspirational 60 minute Q. and A. masterclass by Davie MacParland to a group of relative youngsters at Hampden in 1975 after Scottish Unis had played a friendly with his team.

It was “over the moon Brian” time for me on finding a £5 note in my shoe. This was after I played my first game (unexpectedly) as an S form in the Highland League when my club’s  Aberdeen-based players had been held up by a road incident.

So happy and corrupted was I that I never questioned the widespread practice of giving money to amateur players thereafter so I’m part of the problem.

I also sat next to a young Jim Leyton who came to Butchart to watch himself on a match video after he had let in two goals when we dumped Deveronvale (where he was on loan) out of the Aberdeenshire Cup.  It was the very early days of video and Jim had never seen himself on a tv before.

Every person in the SFM community will have equally diverse and interesting experiences and I’m going to share one more with you now in a little more detail.

In the mid 90s I was given an amazing insight into how Scottish football really worked. In many ways it hasn’t changed much since.

Back then I was part of a small group brought in to help find funding for the upgrade of Tynecastle with the urgent need to construct three new stands. At the time it was a massive requirement for a very financially challenged organisation and at a push there were potentially just about enough pots of monies available from several sources to trigger the investment from the Football Trust and squeak over the line.

The most critical pot was mobilising the fans.

My role was to find a way of getting them to come aboard working with some fine lifetime Hearts fans like the late Alex Kitson so it would all look like a Hearts Community rather than a Mercer initiative.

The then, colourful Hearts majority owner was under constant pressure on other fronts at the time.

The team was not really performing with relatively new manager Jim Jeffries trying to get best out of predecessor Tommy Mclean’s mixed bag of old pros and kids. Making things worse was a growing, highly critical and very vocal consortium of local business people trying to get Mercer out (and themselves in).

I guess you could say in today’s parlance that they were RHM and civil war was very much happening down Gorgie way.

Anyway I can’t now recall all the detail and apologies if my memories have fused a little but a key AGM type meeting for Hearts shareholders at Ingliston was coming up and there was an agenda that looked like it might hurt “The Chairman” as Wallace liked to be called.

Never any flies on him though, he had seen the danger signs and was ready in his own way.

He turned up with his trusted few and simply yet quite brilliantly hijacked the negative agenda and ignored the real issues. He didn’t have a solution for them and couldn’t implement the changes that were in reality needed but quite simply he kicked all the trouble into the long grass.

He did this because he fundamentally understood that most shareholders in the room were just ordinary football fans and wanted nothing more than to be able to talk about football the game, Hearts their club, who they were due to play next and who would be playing.

It was that simple.

Mercer’s message to all that night was “Yes things have been tough but our best possible future is with me”.

He rammed this home by confidently telling the assembled body that Hearts were on the up because we had a new manager who needed time and then blew everyone away by announcing he just signed three amazing new players for them, Giles Rousset, Bruno Pasquale and Hans Eskilsson. After the applause and mayhem died down he had won.

Bruno and Rousset were newsworthy in any Scottish football context one being a French International and the other an ex Juventus tough guy with a EUFA and a couple of Coppa Italia winners medals.

Oh and Eskilsson had amazing hair.

Mercer’s simple bit of insight, showmanship, brinksmanship, call it what you like, led to the survival of his regime.

In a parallel maybe to what the SFA did after their meeting with Craig at the Hotel Du Vin in Glasgow, Mercer had enough time to be ready for the trouble he knew was coming and used his power to ignore the real issues and the detail and move on with a big gamble.

Looking back Wallace got a lot right .

He understood what the majority of ordinary football fans wanted. He’d also learnt that good press was needed and came from feeding the football writers enough tasty exclusives so they’d look after him in a symbiotic relationship, the kind of relationship that remains much the same today.

Even back then in the days when there were less full-colour pages pre-allocated to certain teams to fill and  more able journalists to fill them, the sports pages were about game reports and gossip rather than insight.

The packs of hacks all craved being handed tasty semi-exclusive stories.

It was and ever is thus and in those days the Daily Record was a wee gem with circulation nearer 700K than the 200K-ish today and amazingly all its costs were covered by it’s advertising revenue alone. The proud boast of Endell Laird was the purchase price was pure profit.

With hindsight Wallace may only have postponed the inevitable campaign by the RHM rebels that night at Ingliston. History tells us that the Robinson/Deans rebellion eventually forced their chance. They did have to dig much deeper financially than they ever wanted when their time eventually came, and soon fell out too, but that’s another story.

Wallace’s long grass was just never going to be deep enough to hide the issues he wanted to ignore but to his credit on his watch the stadium was upgraded and the first Scottish Cup since 1956 was paraded to the fans.

Mr. Mercer was an operator who like others before and since could see personal and business value in owning a club.

He cultivated friendly football writers.

He learned that the SFA could be difficult to deal with but much less so when you placed people on their various management boards. That was key to the inner power sanctums and brought you at best influence and at worst early warnings.

He may have been autocratic but knew you needed powerful friends at other clubs too and was always close with David Murray in particular.

So what has this little piece of retrospection and a handful of Finloch football stories got to do with a blog on SFM?

Last week I met Big Pink for the first time over a few coffees.

It was like meeting an old friend in the pub because of all the stuff we’ve lived through and shared over the last 5 or so years.

We talked about stuff and traded stories and opinions on life, football and about SFM what it does and what we are.

We got on to the subject of it’s future and with my business background he asked me to consider a piece for the blog about where the SFM, our fledgling business might go from here.

I maybe agreed too hastily because I have found it challenging to gather and spell out my thoughts.

So this is very much a starting couple of steps to bring in the SFM minds and set up future discussions following this blog and when we meet in Perth in April.

My starting point was to first consider what we are today.

It’s a personal view but to me SFM is a valued medium I come to most days. It’s for when I want to find out or to discuss what is happening.

It is populated with a bunch of people with different backgrounds, skills and insights, is always polite and often very funny.

I’d actually like to see more headline blogs because I enjoy them but our biggest value will always be analysis discussion and good humour.

SFM is fundamentally different to the MSM back pages that still offer us all a mono diet of whatever day-to-day gossip they have been spoon-fed by the Level 9’s of this world or made up and maybe embellished with a random phone call for a quote.

Yes their world is declining and will inevitably see fundamental restructure and change but that change has in reality nothing to do with how they cover and will continue to cover Scottish football.

I’d even posit (to use a wee word I’ve learned from the excellent JJ site I visit sometimes) that the red tops currently see their style of football coverage as a way of slowing their inevitable declines because it delivers the difficult to reach male audience their advertisers crave access to.

As a spectator I’d say the MSM in Scotland mostly seem to suffer from a polarised demographic focus/ bias too but that can never excuse their revisionism or the Spiers and Haggerty episodes we’ve just witnessed.

There is one benefit though. One you maybe hadn’t thought about from all the dreadful MSM football reportage.

The stuff they collectively generate enables all of us to have daily conversations with friends and strangers without actually saying anything about anything.

It gives us our daily top-up for the international language of football minutiae we all converse in every day.

I’ve been able to speak it fluently since I was in my teens. You know the kind of thing – the ins and outs, the ups and downs, the comings and goings and the toings and froings.

The good news, the bad news the made-up news – its all part of being involved with a team or indeed just being a football fan and it’s all conversation for the males of our species.

There are plenty of places I can and do get access to that kind of stuff but SFM isn’t and never has been a source.

I quickly found out that most of my pals don’t want to talk about side letters in the pub on a Friday, or the need for asterisked titles because they are more interested in tomorrow’s match and who will be out of contract at the end of the season.

Without being disrespectful in any way I think they are cut from the same wood as the majority of Mr. Mercer’s Hearts shareholders and if I’m honest part of me is too.

That has given our administrators and clubs too easy a ride.

Beyond the gossip it is fair to say in the last 40 or 50 years football has changed beyond all recognition.

It has become a source of power and money and as we know proverbially and in real life power can corrupt and money can be the root of all-evil.

The stuff happening at FIFA now can be no surprise to any fair-minded fan and I’d be inclined to think that there have been finagled decisions at the top for longer than the current stewardship of Mr. Blatter.

Way longer.

Football-land is a dirty world. A world where all the transparency is for show and real stuff has always been controlled and rewarding for those in the right places.

Closer to home football in Scotland is no different. Power and money have been the origins of our own North of the Border soap opera saga.

Its sometimes been very funny, often been entertaining too but is ultimately tragic and a sad indictment on our country.

Being Scotland nothing is ever as simple as it should be.

We started from a unique kind of place where for over a century we have had to live with an unhealthy, quasi-tribal, two-club duopolistic domination of all things football including the fans, the trophies, the money, the media attention and the administrators controlling our game.

The stark reality of 2016 is our biggest club/economy now finds its real ambitions thwarted, potentially forever, by its location in our restrictive league structure. It has nowhere currently to go and annoyingly the biggest league in the world is just over the border and part of the same country in political terms.

This is a destabilising influence on our game that won’t go away until change allows the next evolution.

Our second biggest economy as we now know had to cheat a little to keep up, post Fergus, and is now making its way back to the top end but with some truly nuclear baggage that I guess we still really only know the half of. Nothing will be simple in its return to what we’re told everyday is its rightful place. It too is a latent destabilising influence awaiting like a grumbling volcano.

What depresses me is the fact that the much-vaunted return of our dysfunctional duopoly is not a formula to recreate  the European success we all took for granted for so long. Those days will never return.

The decline of the Scottish giant that was and is Rangers has dominated our thoughts because it encapsulates so much more than what is wrong with our game.

It is a huge business and establishment fall from grace. A shocking story that has become an elephant in the room to our politicians, our media and many of our fellow fans and is still playing out to deafening silence in some quarters.

In the manic run up to the decline of David Murray’s club we benefitted from insights from the seminal RTC and were bombarded with mass denials from almost everywhere else.

We witnessed the £1 sale to Craig Whyte, the subsequent McCoist European failure, the eventual slide into messy liquidation with tax issues etc.

Our administrators failed us all the way through because they had a different agenda.

Our MSM didn’t want to know partly because it involved more than regurgitating press releases and partly because it was real news for real reporters and not back pages gossip.

Their editors failed us there too, big time.

Now the revisionism and invention of the post-liquidation ephemeral club and company scenarios has been creative to say the least.

I remember Mr. Traynor’s  initial headline and smile how he and others are now wading in a contradictory swamp of their own making. It’s all confusion when it needn’t be.

I only know the kind of stuff that really happened because of this site and its RTC predecessor.

Four or five years on and I think these guys (SFA, SPFL) acted like Wallace Mercer did at Ingliston and ran roughshod over process to “win”.

These well paid admin staff were never off-piste though and our clubs share complicity for their actions to varying degrees.

If I was Regan’s or Doncaster’s devil’s advocate I could just about comprehend that they acted because they feared for their TV revenues. The prospect of being without half of their duopoly ace card and the blue fans scared them and they were mandated by the clubs to maintain the status quo.

I don’t mean all the clubs but if we look at the key committee structures we’ll easily see who were in that inner sanctum at the time. They collectively decided to throw their rulebook out the window and there is no grass long enough to bury their collective actions because truth always outs.

Cast yourself back a few years not long before the St Valentine’s day 2012 news when the push was all for a 10 club league.

I remember Stewart Milne aggressively trying to sell us all a 10-club league because of the TV revenue it delivered (to the few).

At that time there seemed to be a collective “TV Gold Fever” prevailing in the cabal of top club chairmen that makes the real decisions and tells our administrators what to do.
Luckily they failed.

They nearly failed again too in 2012 with their tawdry 5 way agreement  and we all owe a debt of gratitude to the late Turnbull Hutton whose personal integrity, bloody-mindedness and leadership meant a significant change to the premeditated 5 way plan that our top clubs had all signed off.

Since then we’ve all suffered from Armageddon and long may it stay.

SFM has been at the forefront of the last five years. A place where fans from all the clubs come together to question, analyse, give insight, balance, consciousness on all aspects of the meandering road that has been this story so far.

It’s all recorded on our archives somewhere too. We’ve noted and discussed the following and more –

  • Two different signatures from the same club on the 5-way agreement
  • Two different and concurrent memberships of the SFA
  • Players TUPE-ing for free and no lawyers getting rich in trying to get them back
  • Pre-season games being cancelled because of registration and insurance issues
  • The Brechin game coming too soon for the paperwork
  • The entry-round in The Ramsdens Cup for the old club or is it the new club?
  • Record crowds, an even more aggressive songbook
  • Ian Black getting a surprise call-up and a bit of a game to legitimise  The New Rangers with their first cap
  • Millions raised from a gullible city and desperate fans but still several last gasp saves needed to avoid new financial stramashes
  • A charity that pays for holidays in America
  • Quasi-legal stuff with dodgy parameters for questionable enquiries like Nimmo Smith
  • Bryson and his logic that Spartans could and should have used to stay in the cup
  • A “Hopelessly Conflicted Chairman” re-elected and a new one who has fitted in seamlessly
  • Real legal stuff like HMRC appeals, and phrases like side-letters
  • Charlotte Fakes and maybe even Fake Charlotte Fakes
  • Fit and proper persons running our clubs
  • Recorded conversations
  • Onerous contracts
  • Metaphysical concepts of what football clubs in our courts with big bucks being spent on our behalf by our administrators

There is and has been a whole lot more and more to come on the schedules too.

How much of this would I have found on our MSM?

Very little – so thanks to those who go the extra mile for us including John Clark, EasyJambo and others at the courts,  Phil who will never go away, James Doleman and others too including JJ – all playing blinders where the hacks don’t dare.

Finally fast-forward to today.

Most Scottish fans probably know a little about the stuff I’ve touched upon and we’ve debated in depth. Not enough though.

But we have Darryl Broadfoot who is the SFA so we can all sleep rest assured each night.

 

Going forward we must address how we communicate as a medium to spread the word.

Ask yourself – Is what we do more important than knowing Rangers signed Dean Windass’s son from Accrington Stanley on a free because he’s going to play for England one day and stuff like that?

I’d say it is different although both have a place.

Our challenge is to create more impact with ours.

In finishing I have one serious starting proposal to make as a community but first a thank you.

Thank you to all the blog writers and posters because we have collectively created a site where real stuff can be dissected and discussed politely and in a non-partisan way.

Well done to the mods in particular and to our community In general

 

My simple proposal as our first step forward is to start a Wikipedia style library of the facts and keep it on our site.

Dates, happenings, people and all the stuff that will not allow any of it to stay buried forever in the long grass. The kind of detail that is in Auldheid’s amazing and resolute Resolution 12.

Chapter and verse whys and wherefores with dates and names.

 

This will achieve three things.

  • It will create bedrock for us as a trusted media channel whatever we decide to become.
  • It will put stuff factually into the public domain forever.
  • It will contradict any highly paid revisionists trying to change what really happened for their own agendas into the future.

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About the author

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Finloch author

Finloch has been a member of SFM since it's inception. A Hearts fan, he also penned the blog, Look Back to Look Forward

1,978 Comments so far

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SmugasPosted on12:43 pm - Mar 28, 2016


Too generous to Ogilvie there CoT.  Anyone who knew the meaning of the word integrity would have immediately recognised the conflicted interest, or at the very least the understandable perception of a conflict of interest, and stepped down/aside.  Even gardening leave would have been better than his supposed three monkeys work schedule.

What did he have to gain by staying on other than ass covering?  There are very few chief execs / presidents who look upon a no win situation and say “you know what I think I’ll hang around to take the beating thanks.”  He was a full time carpet layer over some very lumpy floors.   

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Paulmac2Posted on12:55 pm - Mar 28, 2016


Paradisebhoy
March 27, 2016 at 17:36

“I do so with a heavy heart because I’m going to miss it so much . I was born in Parkhead and have came back to the area to live . I love the Match Day experience . Walking to the ground , meeting up with old pals, listening to the patter . The pre- match build up , teams announced – the arguments , the analysis and ,of course, the beautiful game itself ”

This is what they are banking on PB…that you are unable to emotionally relinquish that match day experience….
The thing is you will only have to relinquish that emotional bond once…because if enough of us abandon it once…the drop off, if great enough will be enough to cause a ground shift in attitude at board level…and once the aim is achieved we can all return to that game day experience….so our emotional loss is only temporary…if we don’t the moral loss to Scottish football will be permanent.
Celtic Football club will be here long after I am gone…and if the only way to drive this bed sore out of Scottish football is to make my own club suffer, due to their own participation in this whole affair, then so be it, because my own board of Directors are following a business decision which in essence is indirectly stating we support corruption as long as we can benefit from the corruption that has taken place.
My club should be above this and must be above this. If I was to continue paying for a season ticket then ipso facto I am supporting the corruption that is being encouraged by my own club….and that I am afraid is beyond my moral compass.
If withholding revenue (temporarily) from my club is the only way forward on this…then so be it…the club are forcing me and others to take this action…an action I do not want to have to take…but have no option but to!
If enough of us participate in this…it will be a game of who blinks first…and I am the world non blinking champion.

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Corrupt official

Corrupt officialPosted on1:27 pm - Mar 28, 2016


CASTOFTHOUSANDSMARCH 28, 2016 at 12:07 
CASTOFTHOUSANDSMARCH 27, 2016 at 12:27“I’d like to consider the costs one by one.”
   —————————————————————————————
  COT, You highlight a very important issue here. 
    If we were to take it at face value, that this is a continuation of the same club, we must not only look at the penalties for their wrong-doings, but the benefits. By inserting this club in the SPL, as they tried to do would have resulted in the most obscene level of benefits that it is stomach-churning. 
   Here is a club which had just dumped untold millions of debt and obligations, and pretty much smashed every rule they were bound to live under for over a decade. On top of that, there was a £22m IPO in the offing and no doubt a full compliment of season books to be sold at premier prices. It is doubtful if players would have took up their right to walk away under these circumstances. Being debt free, they would instantly have become the most financially advantaged club in Scotland. Not because they were rich, but because they had dumped every penny they owed, and shafted every creditor, with only a faux transfer registration embargo to impede them. 
   It should never be forgotten that this is what the authorities tried to do. 
   If indeed the SFA and any Ibrox club are two individual and distinct corporations, they should have acted like it. This did not happen then, and does not appear to be happening now. 
   Even the £250K fine from Billy Nimmo Smith is a sham. Despite its gross and abhorrent leniency, it appears it will not be repaid, but was merely put on hold until such time as it could be recovered from purse money from a league win. A league in which the provenance of the funds they used to compete in are unknown.
   From where I am sitting, not only have the SFA and an Ibrox club failed to act as two distinct corporate bodies, they have failed to even create the illusion of it.  having both the same personnel employed in the same organisations, and even in the bloo-room of the club itself. 
   Whatever allegiances, either through personnel, historical tradition, or some other form of bond that bound them together, they are still in place to this day.  

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Paulmac2Posted on1:27 pm - Mar 28, 2016


In my reasoning if season ticket renewals are withheld Celtics business model leaves them with 2 options…

1. Carry on regardless…which would mean downsizing even further…and I believe this would be their JFK moment, confirming that they are complicit in this whole affair…and our refusal to renew season tickets would have been the correct one.

Or

2. They cannot carry on under the financial embargo we impose and they take the necessary action to restore the confidence and finances required by a PLC for its shareholders…in which case our refusal to renew season tickets would have been the correct one.

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John ClarkPosted on2:29 pm - Mar 28, 2016


I notice that law firm Harper Macleod of this parish has been declared Firm of the Year by Bank of Scotland.
I am singularly unimpressed.

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upthehoopsPosted on4:15 pm - Mar 28, 2016


When the King fit and proper case comes up in court on 28th April can the SFA be forced by the court to breakdown who did and did not vote for King? I assume as it is a civil matter rather than a criminal one the courts may have different powers?

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Paradisebhoy

ParadisebhoyPosted on4:21 pm - Mar 28, 2016


Paulmac2March 28, 2016 at 12:55
Thanks for that Paulmac2 . I think I knew yer faither Paulmac1 02 . You have strengthened my resolve not to renew . I’m out until Celtic come out and openly back the Resolution 12 guys AND declare TRFC for what they are , a new Club.
                                       I believe PL knows that he will lose a significant number of Season Ticket Holders but thinks this will be compensated by an increased number of new customers lured by the appearance of a “Rangers” like team and the provision of the Safe Standing Area . He might even be right – for next season anyway . But what he is not taking into account is the “quality” of the customer he is losing . Guys, like me , who have supported the team through the lean years – Win ,Lose or Draw . To be replaced by mostly young , glory hunters . Will they have the staying power ? I don’t think so .
                                                                                                                                        This is a watershed moment not just for Celtic but the whole of Scottish Football . The SFA ,SPFL and the SMSM have all displayed their eagerness to get Rangers “back” to the Top – at all Costs . Well , I’m sorry but some costs are just too high to pay .

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StevieBC

StevieBCPosted on5:44 pm - Mar 28, 2016


IMO, TRFC has scored a cheap own goal by leaving the GBP 250K fine unpaid.
The SMSM are reportedly stating that the TRFC management is ‘furious’, [so what’s new?]

1) Entry Fee.
But, TRFC initially could have regarded the fine as a de facto ‘entry fee’, to be fast-tracked into the then SFL.
The alternative was no licence / no club at all.
Just another business cost accepted in advance by the Govan club – and allegedly agreed by all concerned in the 5WA.

2) No title stripping ‘defence’.
If the fine had been paid promptly, then TRFC could have claimed – very loudly – through the SMSM that it had accepted its punishment ‘because of the previous regime’s mismanagement’, and thus attempt to silence the claims for title stripping etc.
Of course, the whole “no sporting advantage” opinion is absolute b*llox to anyone with half a brain – but if the fine had been paid then TRFC could have claimed they had honoured the LNS Commission’s decision and punishment…and we should all just move on…  14

So the GBP 250K could be deducted from the TRFC payment for winning the Championship.
But TRFC will still be furious, claiming to be further victimised etc., and yet another grievance is added to their list, as they are ‘welcomed’ into their first season in the top league.

And so, this club’s misery-sharing in the supposedly ‘beautiful game’ in Scotland will continue…  20

 

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tony

tonyPosted on5:53 pm - Mar 28, 2016


PAULMAC2
in my mind peter lawell is risking eveything on celtic fans blindly following the team they support,i’m out and i’m out for the long haul

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hampdenborePosted on5:54 pm - Mar 28, 2016


Paulmac2March 28, 2016 at 13:27
After so many years of focussing on the authorities, I believe a shift of focus to the root of the problem is required. Fundamentally, the club’s are the architects of this on-going mess to varying degrees of culpability. At best, some are giving complicit approval by not asking any questions. In the middle ground some probably know the issues or suspect but turn the other way. At worst, it is likely that some are intricately involved in the planning and execution of this omni-shambles.
 
As you indicate, if there are enough supporters of Scottish football that really do care about these governance issues then they collectively have it within their power to instigate change, by channelling through the club’s in the manner in which the club’s always take notice – hard cash. By all accounts the threat of such approach worked well in 2012 when the powers that be attempted to avoid certain Armageddon by parachuting a brand new club directly into the top flight. I believe that said club being back where they believe they belong in the top league will be mission accomplished, and the lie will perpetually be given as fact within the confines of association football regardless of the outcome of any on-going court cases.
 
Sadly, I have much doubt that sufficient numbers of supporters care enough.

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John ClarkPosted on6:54 pm - Mar 28, 2016


upthehoopsMarch 28, 2016 at 16:15
‘.. can the SFA be forced by the court to breakdown who did and did not vote for King?….’
________
I think the whole matter will boil down to one single question:did the SFA Board use their discretionary powers properly in terms of the relevant  article of the Articles of Association?
Under that Article,they are obliged to consider a whole range of questions ,on the best available information, and to arrive at a conclusion based on that information, and not in an arbitrary fashion and certainly not based on any consideration of how much money may be gained or lost by declaring any individual NOT to be ‘fit and proper’ . And, of course, they must be able to show a level of consistency with the decisions  made in other cases (Is Whyte one of those?)
The minutes of the relevant meetings , including any meetings with DK, and the information they sought and obtained from other sources,should be available. The minutes might show the who voted for or against. And if anyone was against, the reason he put forward for his opposition should be recorded. 
Or, at least, that’s what I would expect OUGHT to happen.It might not be at all like that!
This is maybe one civil case that surely doesn’t impinge on the criminal cases,  so there may not be any reporting restrictions.But of course, you never know.

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John ClarkPosted on7:55 pm - Mar 28, 2016


tonyMarch 28, 2016 at 17:53
‘..in my mind peter lawell is risking eveything on celtic fans blindly following the team they support,’
________
There is an old proverb to the effect that one can’t run with the hare and course with the hounds.In fundamental matters of principle, one sooner or later has to declare for or against truth. Hoping that the problem will go away is never the answer.
As I’ve said just recently, the Res 12 issue is even more fundamentally a matter of cheating than any of the other nonsense, and Celtic’s prevarication and final casting aside of responsibility for informing UEFA will come back and bite them on the bum, or the hip pocket.
Previous Celtic boards at least on two occasions took a principled stand against the unprincipled behaviour of the SFA.In my view, the present Board should have done the same in relation to the Res 12 matter.

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paddy malarkey

paddy malarkeyPosted on8:03 pm - Mar 28, 2016


WRT the forthcoming Hampden Hatefest,  I assume that tickets will go to current ST holders, and the clubs involved will have their personal details . Could these fans be made to sign a form saying that they will refrain from singing any of a list of banned sectarian songs before they get their ticket ? That way the clubs involved can be seen to be doing everything in their power to eradicate the problem
Happy Easter to those who celebrate it .

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bordersdonPosted on8:30 pm - Mar 28, 2016


hampdenbore
March 28, 2016 at 17:54
Sadly, I have much doubt that sufficient numbers of supporters care enough.
———————————————————————————-
In a nutshell. I have posted likewise before and PL and SM et al know this and are up to their knees in complicity! Makes me effin furious but it’s a fact guys. I say again we should not be directing our venom at the servants (Reygun and Duncaster) but their employers (our clubs).

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wottpiPosted on8:40 pm - Mar 28, 2016


STEVIEBCMARCH 28, 2016
I think you have a point that a PR master strike could have been played by paying the fine.

To give him his due, DCK has been about the only RRM to say sorry for the whole oldco debacle in public.

With his trousers pockets full of cash and the ability to raise £6.5m (or was it £5.7m) at a moments notice, a bit of his small change could have easily paid the fine early doors to back up his previous apology and thus put a nail in the coffin of the past boards. He could have legitimately said that within the rules applied by the footballing authorities it was the right thing to do and that it was now time for everyone to move on from the EBT issue.

The piffling fine for a decade of deceit was probably yet another generous helping hand from the powers that be but once again that just isn’t good enough for the club from Govan.

Be it sheer stupidity or the desperate need for cash,  like the chateau owner in France DCK needs to keep a healthy number of persecuted and deeply offended fans on side. 

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Corrupt official

Corrupt officialPosted on10:40 pm - Mar 28, 2016


WOTTPIMARCH 28, 2016 at 20:40
      “The piffling fine for a decade of deceit was probably yet another generous helping hand from the powers that be but once again that just isn’t good enough for the club from Govan.”
       ————————————————————————————————————–
  It was much more than a generous helping hand WOTTPI. There was no need for Nimmo-Smith to sit in the first place. The proscribed list of penalties were perfectly clear and precedented. It was an open and shut case that even Inspector Clouseau could have solved without as much as a broken fingernail. It was a farce that made the Pinsent Mason investigation look like a paragon of virtue and decency. 
   It did allow them to do many things though under a veneer of faux legality and seeming respectability. 
   To not want to throw their tuppenceworth in the kitty for a Kangaroo court which was rigged in every way in their favour is just bare faced, brass necked cheek.
 

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John ClarkPosted on10:54 pm - Mar 28, 2016


” Frailty,thy name is woman”.( I’ll leave it o Essexbeancounter to provide the reference)
I’ve just seen that Moira Gordon, hitherto ( as far as I know) an innocent in the world of SMSM football hacks, has blotted her escutcheon.
Today in the ‘Scotsman’ she says “…but, by Saturday night, Rangers {her word} could have finally sealed their return to Scottish football’s top flight.” And for good measure, “…Having spent the past four years working their passage back to the Premiership..’
I think it’s a great pity that she is now officially one of the succulent lamb brigade, ready to support a myth.I thought she was more independently minded and more of a stickler for the truth.
But there you have it: young Hamlet would no doubt say, “See, Ah telt ye” ( which DP might be good enough to translate into Danish).

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jimboPosted on10:54 pm - Mar 28, 2016


I know I spend far too much time on football blogs and television than is good for me.

But tonight I watched Marvel Avengers Assembled.  How nostalgic from the 60s.

I imagined we were all storming and fighting the enemies of Hampden.  I was Thor of course.  I was thinking of coming up with a cast from here, but I wont for fear of making you all blush.  (The hulk was JC)  No need to hint who Captain America was (DC)  Loki was of course Stewart Regan.  I could go on but I wont.  (Couldn’t find a mixing role for my Killie mate , maybe Iron Man?) 

Happy Easter Monday 0204

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Big PinkPosted on11:39 pm - Mar 28, 2016


There is a growing realisation amongst fans that their clubs, whilst innocent of the original offence which crashed the Scottish football bus, have failed to support the good of the game in general, and are complicit in the cover-up that has taken place.

And that growing realisation is beginning to have an effect. In a recent conversation I with a Celtic official, I was informed that,

we have done nothing wrong, but Rangers might have 45,000 season tickets next year and our sporting integrity soviet will see us down to 20,000. How is that fair?

It may be that this sort of spin will be effective in nullifying the effect of those who have had enough withdrawing from the fray. It may even be the card that other clubs with significant SB numbers will play too. However the answer from my point of view is not to fight the symptoms with spin, but to stop ignoring the disease and clean the infected area thoroughly. See how that impacts on season book sales.

 “easily fixed”, I said, “instead of harping on about season ticket numbers, support the Res 12 people publicly and with conviction, complain to UEFA on their behalf, and root out the people who issued licences contrary to the regulations”.

Resolution 12 is not a Celtic – only issue, nor is it a Rangers issue (unless you can un-issue a licence). It is about how the whole of Scottish football (100% of it) was brought into disrepute because those charged with administering the laws of the sport failed catastrophically to do so.

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John ClarkPosted on11:53 pm - Mar 28, 2016


jimboMarch 28, 2016 at 22:54
“…..How nostalgic from the 60s……(The hulk was JC)  …”
________
If you’re referring to this JC, I’ll confirm that that is an apt description, if the following maritime definition is used
‘..Hulk: A worn out vessel.”02
And, if I may use the words of Bing Crosby’s ad lib remark  in the ‘High Society’ song “What a swell party this is”, ‘you must be one of the newer fellas’ if you get nostalgic for something as recent as the ‘Hulk’!
I still yearn for Billy Batson’s ( the original Captain Marvel’s) sister, Mary Marvel, whose attributes were so quintessentially ‘American College girl’ , and matched only by Veronica in the original Archie Andrews comics ( in which the heidie of the school was called the ‘Principal’, and words like ‘sidewalk’ and ‘soda fountain’ introduced us wee boys to the kind of language not heard for real until the Polaris submariner guys annoyed the hell ( Americanism?) out of us as young men at the Locarno on a Saturday night)
There’s nostalgia for you!

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Corrupt official

Corrupt officialPosted on12:04 am - Mar 29, 2016


BP. 
 Celtic will have my full support if they back this resolution. But only if they back this resolution. It is not up for negotiation. 

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John ClarkPosted on12:21 am - Mar 29, 2016


Big PinkMarch 28, 2016 at 23:39
‘..we have done nothing wrong, but Rangers might have 45,000 season tickets next year and our sporting integrity soviet will see us down to 20,000. How is that fair?’
______
BP, how feckin stupid can some people be? To argue that we should all be liars and cheats because the liar and cheat gets away with lying and cheating is utterly destructive of any idea of sporting competition.
There is no surer recipe for the acceleration of the demise of professional football than the assertion that cheating is at the heart of it.Who could be arsed paying money so that phony clubs and dodgy business men can make personal profit at the expense of ‘Sport’?
The answer is that honest men should sort out the devious cheats,be faithful to their faithful fans, and, if need be, die for principle. It is not just one club that was kicked in the goolies by the cheating SDM’s Rangers. Rather than whinge about potential loss of ST revenue while the baddies coin it in, Celtic should now make it abundantly clear that they do not intend to be part of a rigged game.And raise the Res 12 issue immediately, with UEFA
And that fool of an idiot who used the expression ‘ our sporting integrity soviet’ is clearly of the same stamp as the cheating SDM. He wants his arse kicked good and hard.
And I’ll be the first in line to do it.

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John ClarkPosted on1:05 am - Mar 29, 2016


Here is an interesting thing, unconnected with football and quite OT.
Shortly after posting my most recent post, I googled the word ‘soviet’ to refresh my memory of what the Russian word actually signified.
Imagine my surprise at this:
My google :”What does “Soviet” in the word “Soviet Union” mean?First response:You may have left your vote behind. Register to vote in the 5 May Scottish Parliament election with your new address now.
Gov.UK Sponsored”
God Almighty! The unionist UK government are everywhere. Or is it just me?

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John ClarkPosted on1:33 am - Mar 29, 2016


Further to my post of 0021,and picking up BP’s remark :
“easily fixed”, I said, “instead of harping on about season ticket numbers, support the Res 12 people publicly and with conviction, complain to UEFA on their behalf, and root out the people who issued licences contrary to the regulations”.
it seems to me to be absolutely certain that Celtic, and perhaps other clubs, would see a sudden flood of Season Ticket ( or is it more proper to talk about Season Books?) renewals, in solid support of Sporting Integrity if the baddies were openly challenged.
Because the cause of empty seats at Celtic Park is not the absence of a ‘Rangers’.
It is because people looked at the most glaring bit of cheating jiggery pokery by the Authorities and said to themselves ‘ sod that for a game of soldiers’ -with undertones of the partisan Army’s celebrations at Ibrox.

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tayred

tayredPosted on10:05 am - Mar 29, 2016


we have done nothing wrong, but Rangers might have 45,000 season tickets next year and our sporting integrity soviet will see us down to 20,000. How is that fair?

But they most certainly have done something wrong.
They have sat by and at least watched, if not actively encouraged, a cheat prosper (if being 30 odd million in debt is prospering, some might suggest that in fact they are cheating yet again).

They almost certainly have knowledge that demonstrates that this cheat caused their own club to lose out on significant sums of money, and not just their own club but several other clubs along with them.

They have failed to look out for their shareholders, even when those self same shareholders have used dirty big and very pointy sticks to help them know exactly what the correct direction is. 

They have failed to communicate with their shareholders, mistruths and lies towards the Resolution 12 folks, leading those fine folks to believe they were on board, when it is seems they were just stringing them along to get to the deadline day where they hoped it would all just go away.

They have failed Scottish football, and allowed cheating on an epic scale to go completely unpunished – there are arguments that it has even been rewarded (debt free, while creditors remain crippled; unfairly placed ahead of others into the Scottish League) and only sheer incompetence by numerous TRFC boards have made them into the financial basket case that they are yet again. Until that 250k fine is paid of course, that is the only punishment to come out of this entire saga.

Of course, it’s not just Celtic. Many other clubs need to waken up before it’s too late, my own included. But looking at this case in isolation, if the guy in question really believes the Celtic board have maintained their sporting integrity through complete inactivity then it is clear the game is a bogey. The only chance we have will be through some fan driven campaign – our clubs have let us down big time, their customers are irrelevant to their belief that TV money (presumably) is king, and that the freakshow that is the hate-fest of the Green v Blue game is what they want to sell the Scottish game as to the world. What a depressing thought. Even more depressing is that it is going to work, Hampden will be full for the semi, and next season Parkhead and Ibrox will be full and once again bouncing to the same old bile ridden songs.

I’ve already written to AFC to inform them I am out and that I feel completely let down by the AFC board and the SFA/SPFL. I will not give any of them another penny. Unsurprisingly I received absolutely no response. They don’t care, they never did, and never will care about their customers. The only time they did was when season tickets weren’t selling, and that wasn’t caring, that was purely a financial decision. I’m really not sure the appetite is there amongst the fan base to build another campaign like that??

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CastofthousandsPosted on11:11 am - Mar 29, 2016


CASTOFTHOUSANDSMARCH 27, 2016 at 12:27
“I’d like to consider the costs one by one”
————————————–
UEFA licensing 2011
This issue was identified whilst bloggers were pouring over the details of Rangers finances in 2012. Many supporters and fans would never find it necessary to review their governing bodies rules and how they were applied but the situation drew attention to itself.
It now appears clear that there were issues surrounding the issuance of a UEFA license to RFC(IL) in 2011.
Now it may be that the governing bodies routinely assisted their member clubs in achieving UEFA licensing criteria and that there is nothing quite black and white in this process. That certainly is the impression provided by the lack of response from clubs affected by this licensing issue. If the sport were being governed in  a strict manner, you would imagine that any club disenfranchised by the licensing process would immediately take issue over the process. However that is not what we have seen.
The crucial issue, as elaborated by many bloggers, is that a football club must be up to date with its payment of social taxes before a UEFA license can be issued to them. It appears that Rangers (IL) failed to do this and the governing authority would have been quite within its rights to withhold the license. That this did not happen points to a regime that was patchy and inconsistent.
If such an inconsistent regime had in all other manners kept its nose clean then perhaps this little detail would not have emerged. However the general dereliction of duty with regards to the consequences suffered by Rangers (IL) made it inevitable that this little faux pas would emerge into the cold light of day.
If the governing body and affected club membership are not bothered in pursuing this issue then why should we care. As I have said previously, I am just a fan. I have not shelled out my cash to watch football competitions that were not conducted with due regards to the governing statutes. I have not been cheated directly.
The costs here are borne by the supporters. They paid their cash for entry to matches in the belief that the competitions were being conducted and policed on an equitable basis. I can understand their deep chagrin at discovering this was not so. They have been to some extent conned out of their money. The question must be that if such lax procedures were in operation for the premier tournament of the sporting calendar, then was there any element of sporting governance that might not be compromised in order to bring about an expedient outcome?
The evidence is damning. Failure to police the entry criteria for the sport’s premier tournament points to a reckless disregard for the rule book. There are bowling and darts clubs that would baulk at conducting one of their tournaments in such a manner. To call these actions amateurish would be a dreadful slur on the many well run amateur sporting organisations that would never countenance such an approach.

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tayred

tayredPosted on11:30 am - Mar 29, 2016


CASTOFTHOUSANDSMARCH 29, 2016 at 11:11 1 0 Rate This
If the governing body and affected club membership are not bothered in pursuing this issue then why should we care. As I have said previously, I am just a fan. I have not shelled out my cash to watch football competitions that were not conducted with due regards to the governing statutes. I have not been cheated directly.The costs here are borne by the supporters. They paid their cash for entry to matches in the belief that the competitions were being conducted and policed on an equitable basis. I can understand their deep chagrin at discovering this was not so. They have been to some extent conned out of their money.

As soon as competition rules are not applied, it ceases to become a sport.

Therefore, as soon as competition rules are knowingly not applied the continued selling of tickets to said “sporting competition” becomes fraudulent.

I’d suggest there are many in the Scottish football community are well aware rules were not being applied without fear or favour.

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Jingso.JimsiePosted on11:41 am - Mar 29, 2016


JOHN CLARKMARCH

28, March 2016 at 22:54

 I’ve just seen that Moira Gordon, hitherto ( as far as I know) an innocent in the world of SMSM football hacks, has blotted her escutcheon.

Today in the ‘Scotsman’ she says “…
=====================

I’m afraid Moira is no ‘innocent’.  If you peruse some of her past articles, her standpoint is very visible.

As for her Scotsman colleagues; there were a further two articles in Monday’s edition which caused the raising of my eyebrows. Aidan Smith & Stephen Halliday, come on down.

::: 

BIG PINKMARCH

28 March, 2016 at 23:39

  
There is a growing realisation amongst fans that their clubs, whilst innocent of the original offence which crashed the Scottish football bus, have failed to support the good of the game in general, and are complicit in the cover-up that has taken place.
And that growing realisation is beginning to have an effect. In a recent conversation I with a Celtic official, I was informed that,

we have done nothing wrong, but Rangers might have 45,000 season tickets next year and our sporting integrity soviet will see us down to 20,000. How is that fair?

If a Celtic official can’t see that their club’s silence makes them complicit (both in governance terms & in the eyes of their own fans), what hope is there?

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jockybhoyPosted on12:12 pm - Mar 29, 2016


I have not been on here as much as previously partly because of holiday ? but also because every time I came on here it reminded me of why I stopped visiting many of the Celtic sites which all vied to outdo each other in their enmity for the board in general and Peter Lawwell in particular.
Regardless of results on or off the pitch every success was our right and every failure Lawwell’s fault. Doomsayers’ (or mineshafters in local parlance) dogwhistles summoned fans to throw their season books harder and further than the previous poster… otherwise you clearly didn’t care about your club…
This website used to pride itself on the truth, on the facts, on uncovering pertinent information not easily accessible to everyday football fans. It dismissed speculation and ignored seemingly hard evidence because of dubious provenance, yet now the majority of posters on here are posting as fact their mind reading capabilities with regard to Celtic’s Chief Exec without a murmur.
And so to Resolution 12 – the problem it seems to me with Res12 is that this makes drives Rangers malfeasance into what Regan calls a “West Coast” problem. This has been Celtic’s stance all the way through – Rangers wronged Scottish football in its entirety and Scottish football should unite to address it. If the loudest complainant is the arch-rival and the biggest beneficiary of subsequent action it looks entirely like self interest and will damage Celtic’s standing in Scottish and European football.
The simple fact that this “Resolution 12” is the shorthand for the issues under discussion is to me an indication of the drivers behind it: Resolution 12 was the 12th item on the Celtic AGM agenda and refers to Article 66 of UEFA’s FInancial Fair Play initiative. Why isn’t this a FFP66 or better yet “Financial Fair Play breach” discussion? The fact that the SPFL actually included questions on FFP in their Facebook questionnaire (no Res12? PL’s influence I am sure…) would seem to align this better to suit our, all fans, purposes. Nope it’s the reference to Celtic’s AGM that we are sticking to.
Anyway to sum up – “resolution 12” is what it is: Celtic fans telling their board to undertake unilateral action to get UEFA to investigate SFA actions that benefitted their mortal enemy at Celtic’s expense with all the implications that entails. If they don’t all you guys can throw your season books longer and harder the the previous poster, and it WILL hurt the club/company etc. it might even cost Lawwell some bonus (cue posts of GIRUY Lawwell, hahah etc). It might cost success on the pitch – might not though, only time will tell.
As many have said the numbers of people visiting this site are small in comparison to those attending matches or those worldwide with an interest in Scottish football. Very few people do seem to care or think there is benefit to this. arguing against inertia or lack of interest shown by others rarely has a positive outcome. It’s not right, it’s not fair – nothing related to this sorry tale is – and good luck in pursuing FFP, but I fear without other teams’ involvement it’s a lone voice railing against the wind… and will have the same effect.

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iceman63Posted on12:30 pm - Mar 29, 2016


Ok BP  – perhaps your official needs to delete the wrong and but, and add hence, delete soviet and add core support and consequently  he might just get it .
 like this
 
we have done nothing, hence  Rangers might have 45,000 season tickets next year and our sporting integrity core support will consequently see us down to 20,000.  How is that fair? ( because your fans  follow Celtic and support its key interests, unlike the board of the club, and their fans follow the game of football  which has rules, and believe that Celtic football club ought to  have sought to have these upheld)l
 
Fixed that for your official, BP.
Perhaps if he reads it like this, he might just understand!
  As an ex -Celtic fan, who has not paid a penny into the club’s coffers since 2012,  I hope that such a mass boycott of ST’s comes about.
If, and its a big if, Celtic fans were to  walk away en masse, then the Celtic board  would have absolutely no-one but themselves to blame. I would hope that were  such an eventuality to occur, , which I personally think highly unlikely, then this  would lead directly  to the dismissal of the present board, in its entirety, replaced with a new board committed to the interests of Celtic football club, and the sport of football itself.
Such a board would immediately announce its support for resolution 12, state that  the present incarnation of Rangers was founded in 2012 as a new club, , and seek an immediate setting aside of LNS, or failing this, stating their intention to  appeal the LNS charade to all appropriate bodies up to, if necessary , the CAS, or even the Court of Session.
DD’s position as club major shareholder, would, of course, be similarly untenable, and one would expect him to offload his shareholding in the fullness of time.

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tayred

tayredPosted on12:36 pm - Mar 29, 2016


JOCKYBHOYMARCH 29, 2016 at 12:12
It’s not right, it’s not fair – nothing related to this sorry tale is – and good luck in pursuing FFP, but I fear without other teams’ involvement it’s a lone voice railing against the wind… and will have the same effect.
———————————————————————————————————————-
Fans of many other teams have been just as vocal as those of Celtic. Celtic fans are not a lone voice. Like always, you just never hear about “other” teams, the press have their reasons to make this appear as a “West of Scotland” debate. The missing voices are those from the clubs – any club would do for starters with the balls to stand up to say enough is enough. That voice won’t come, they are all in this together, all for the “common good”. They all crave that blue pound, for reasons I just don’t understand, particularly so for all clubs other than Celtic who I reckon must be the only club that would benefit from having some form of Rangers within their league. Of course, the way they are continuing to irritate their fan base might make that benefit significantly less than they originally hoped for.

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nawlitePosted on1:17 pm - Mar 29, 2016


BP did your Celtic official understand the argument that by supporting Res12 and the fact that TRFC* is not RFC, Celtic could easily regain that ‘integrity soviet’ of season book fans?

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CrownStBhoy

CrownStBhoyPosted on1:21 pm - Mar 29, 2016


“Look Back To Look Forward”
How apt this is.
Fergus helped fill Celtic Park by taking on the Scottish Football authorities and winning.
It took some years but he did it with the backing of his board, historical fact that will never go away.
The present board could do the same today if only they would publicly back Res. 12.
In doing so they could well provide an impetus for many, not all, other clubs’ boards to follow; it may be a slow reaction but follow they would.
That is all they have to do so why will they not?…and don’t give me any of that claptrap about impending court cases, Res. 12 was around long before.
My only conclusion is that they saw the lure of a free run at the riches of CL money for years to come.
Hasn’t quite worked out that way though has it? thanks to the SFA/SPL/SFL/SPFL and, worst of all, themselves!
Some might even say, ‘we were duped’.

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Kopweb

KopwebPosted on3:35 pm - Mar 29, 2016


Off topic, but some of my fellow old-timers (and even some younger dudes) may be interested in this brilliant article about the ‘other team’ in what many see as the greatest game ever played: Eintracht Frankfurt.

Brought back memories for me as I was one of the 70 million who watched it live on TV (in glorious monochrome), and then again several times over on the 16mm film that our school-team coach sourced to show us how football should really be played.

Some things never change though. Watch out for the comments about the arrogance and hype surrounding Frankfurt’s semi-final opponents, and for the “ridiculous” penalty decision in the final by the SFA referee…

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StevieBC

StevieBCPosted on5:00 pm - Mar 29, 2016


The Rangers Journey is nearly over: Story of four rollercoaster seasons in pictures
THIS Saturday could see the Ibrox men win promotion and take what their fans believe is their rightful place back in the big time….
But this weekend, or perhaps on Tuesday against Dumbarton, none of that will be at the forefront of the supporters’ minds.
For them their club will have taken its rightful place back in the big time…

July 13, 201225 of 30 SFL clubs vote to offer Rangers a place in the Third Division for the new season…
===================
But no mention of Scottish football fans refusing to accept Sevco demands for a place in the SPL, and then SFL1.
The DR whitewashing / cheerleading has already started… 191919

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killie1962Posted on5:28 pm - Mar 29, 2016


Good morning Kopweb(at least it is here in the deepest North of California)
Just a wee reminder that only 4 years later the might of Ayrshire gave Eintracht 4 goals of a start (3 in Germany and a cracking goal to open the scoring at Rugby Park) where in the words of an immortal Scottish TV Commentator-“and these Ayrshire boys are swarming” came blaring over the tellys all over Scotland as  Killie cracked in 5 (didnae even need extra time!!) to make it thru for a wee trip to Merseyside to play the might of Everton. If my memory serves me correctly the Scottish Football league went out of the way to help Killie by sending them away to play Aberdeen at Pittodrie on a Saturday(where the game was almost abandoned due to a horrendous sea haar which swept down over the area) and a last minute goal by Jackie McInally gave the team a point which would prove invaluable later on in the season. If you are wondering about the help from the Scottish League I ask the following question, what other organisation would send one of their teams still participating in Europe away from home on the longest trip of their league program knowing full well that they were due to play Everton in Liverpool on the Monday night!!!!! Any chance of a rearrangement fellahs??? The team was obviously tired and went down 4-1 in the second leg. I just wonder if Rangers or Celtic would have received the same treatment, some things never change!!
For my friend Jimbo, I don’t think I would have made a good Iron Man, I’d need to be oiled too frequently but as I was always subsidizing my other wee mate Jake ( a Dumbarton fan who is also in exile in Northern California) during our Sunday sessions I reckon I might have been Reed Richards, always stretching deep into my pockets for the price of the rounds, but on second thought that handle might belong to the illustrious Chairman over in Govan, he is a dab at stretching his arms into everyone’s pockets except his own as well as having an uncanny knack of stretching the truth aided and abetted by the SMSM!! 
Yours in Sport
Gaun the Killie

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briggsbhoyPosted on5:57 pm - Mar 29, 2016


Re: The 250K fine !

I just had a look at what other teams have paid in fines for fielding ineligible players and looked back at the following article.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1243257/Dunfermline-booted-Scottish-Cup-fielding-Calum-Woods-7-1-victory-Stenhousemuir.html 
 
Check out the comment from John Chernouski, a cracker and I think he saw the future
I don’t see any reference to money regarding Dunfermline but note that Brechin were charge £10k and chucked out of the Cup when the SFA later realized they had fielded two ineligible players. St Mirren had a fine of £25k back in 2006 but it doesn’t mention if they were booted out the cup. So based on these figures was £250k a fare price and the overall verdict on Oldco not a complete farce.

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AuldheidPosted on6:13 pm - Mar 29, 2016


CrownStBhoyMarch 29, 2016 at 13:21
 That is all they have to do so why will they not?…and don’t give me any of that claptrap about impending court cases, Res. 12 was around long before. ==================
I’m afraid the bit about impending court cases is not clap trap as our regular court attendees could confirm in a non prejudicial way.
I wish very much that it were not. But possible criminal behaviour is a factor, one that has dogged Res12 since the off.

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AuldheidPosted on6:48 pm - Mar 29, 2016


jockybhoyMarch 29, 2016 at 12:12 15 18 i Rate This 
I have not been on here as much as previously partly because of holiday but also because every time I came on here it reminded me of why I stopped visiting many of the Celtic sites which all vied to outdo each other in their enmity for the board in general and Peter Lawwell in particular. Regardless of results on or off the pitch every success was our right and every failure Lawwell’s fault. Doomsayers’ (or mineshafters in local parlance) dogwhistles summoned fans to throw their season books harder and further than the previous poster… otherwise you clearly didn’t care about your club…This website used to pride itself on the truth, on the facts, on uncovering pertinent information not easily accessible to everyday football fans. It dismissed speculation and ignored seemingly hard evidence because of dubious provenance, yet now the majority of posters on here are posting as fact their mind reading capabilities with regard to Celtic’s Chief Exec without a murmur. And so to Resolution 12 – the problem it seems to me with Res12 is that this makes drives Rangers malfeasance into what Regan calls a “West Coast” problem. This has been Celtic’s stance all the way through – Rangers wronged Scottish football in its entirety and Scottish football should unite to address it. If the loudest complainant is the arch-rival and the biggest beneficiary of subsequent action it looks entirely like self interest and will damage Celtic’s standing in Scottish and European football. The simple fact that this “Resolution 12” is the shorthand for the issues under discussion is to me an indication of the drivers behind it: Resolution 12 was the 12th item on the Celtic AGM agenda and refers to Article 66 of UEFA’s FInancial Fair Play initiative. Why isn’t this a FFP66 or better yet “Financial Fair Play breach” discussion? The fact that the SPFL actually included questions on FFP in their Facebook questionnaire (no Res12? PL’s influence I am sure…) would seem to align this better to suit our, all fans, purposes. Nope it’s the reference to Celtic’s AGM that we are sticking to. Anyway to sum up – “resolution 12” is what it is: Celtic fans telling their board to undertake unilateral action to get UEFA to investigate SFA actions that benefitted their mortal enemy at Celtic’s expense with all the implications that entails. If they don’t all you guys can throw your season books longer and harder the the previous poster, and it WILL hurt the club/company etc. it might even cost Lawwell some bonus (cue posts of GIRUY Lawwell, hahah etc). It might cost success on the pitch – might not though, only time will tell. As many have said the numbers of people visiting this site are small in comparison to those attending matches or those worldwide with an interest in Scottish football. Very few people do seem to care or think there is benefit to this. arguing against inertia or lack of interest shown by others rarely has a positive outcome. It’s not right, it’s not fair – nothing related to this sorry tale is – and good luck in pursuing FFP, but I fear without other teams’ involvement it’s a lone voice railing against the wind… and will have the same effect.
======================
It is a sad fact of life that the Celtic Board are viewed by some/most from a spectrum ranging from “naughty boys” to “the earls of hell.”
It is also a sad fact that this perception by some at the hell end is causing Res12 to be hi jacked to suit that belief.
That agenda was never at any time the aim of Res12. Sure it asked for Celtic to ask UEFA to investigate the goings on in 2011.
Regan wants that to be seen as a West Coast issue because that stops it being seen as the manifestation of bad SFA governance ranging from incompetence to corruption from the date an ebt first got a mention in RFC’s accounts. 
This mess, made worse since 2012 by trying to present what took place as unfortunate maladministration, instead of what it was –  a deliberate attempt* to gain sporting advantage with attendant title and financial rewards  is now the mess that it is because of one main factor and that factor is what Res12 is now addressing.
Res12 is telling the SFA (and SPFL) that they are accountable to supporters who have shareholdings in their clubs. All supporters have an emotional shareholding but that does not give them the rights to question as a paper one purchased to reflect the emotional investment. That  bit of paper purchased at a cost gives rights through an AGM protest to do what Res12 is doing. Demanding accountability.
Resolution 12 is not what you say it is ie Celtic fans telling their board to undertake unilateral action to get UEFA to investigate SFA actions that benefitted their mortal enemy at Celtic’s expense with all the implications that entails.”
Its about accountability, its about transparency. Its about integrity 
Its about making manifest what can happen to the greatest sporting game in the world when all are absent.
Regan, Dickson, Ogilvie, Doncaster, The 5 Way Agreement etc etc. All of it possible because those in charge believed they were accountable to no one.
Res12 might get answers it might not, but it will make those in charge of our game a lot more wary if there is a next time they think they can do as they please. 
* deliberate attempt are the very words used by HMRC on the use by RFC  of DOS ebts with side letters in 2011 correspondence, correspondence by the way kept from the SFA in 2011 in respect of the UEFA licence and 2012 in respect of the LNS Commission.

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jockybhoyPosted on6:54 pm - Mar 29, 2016


TayRed: I know some have posted on here that they’ve made contact with their boards but I haven’t seen much response from them in terms of their boards’ actions. And that brings me to Resolution12: or whatever you guys numbered it… I don’t see that many lambast in their boards or a plethora of posters bragging about leaving their team like ex-Bhoys do. I gave up my season ticket as my time between wives ended but also because my travelling mate – a Lurgan Bhoy in London – had his third kid, making it harder to justify season books. We go up now and pay hospitality prices so as the team didn’t miss out financially from our personal situations.

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upthehoopsPosted on7:10 pm - Mar 29, 2016


KILLIE1962MARCH 29, 2016 at 17:28
==========================

Always better to do some research before making such posts.

In September 1995 Celtic played a ECWC tie in Georgia against Dynamo Batumi on a Thursday. Such were the travel arrangements to and from that country they could not get back to Glasgow until the early hours of the Saturday. This was known well in advance and the club had asked if the Saturday fixture against Motherwell could be put back 24 hours. The authorities refused. It was not the only time that season they had to play on the Saturday following a Thursday game. Most interesting was the Scottish league deciding in 1996 that a Scottish team (IIRC Hearts) playing on a Thursday and then the following Saturday was unfair, despite deeming it fair enough the year before, and changed the rules.  

Going back to October 1967, Celtic did not return from a Wednesday EC tie in Kiev until late on Friday night. Despite that, they had to play on the Saturday. 

So in answer to your question ‘I just wonder if Rangers or Celtic would have received the same treatment, some things never change!!’, Celtic most certainly received the same treatment, on several occasions.  

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hampdenborePosted on7:20 pm - Mar 29, 2016


Personally I do not subscribe to the train of thought that any member club should refrain from speaking out without the involvement or backing of other clubs.
 
For me, the entire governing issues pervasive in Scottish football boil down to what is right and what is wrong. Any club should be confident enough within itself, if not compelled by a moral compass seemingly lacking in corporate UK , to speak out if they are aware of or suspect issues that are wrong. Otherwise the intimidators and the manipulators have won. Where then lies the boundary between right and wrong? Let a team win a match to avoid relegation, make the top six, win a league? As unlikely as that may seem, is this not the sort of culture than can be bred from consciously not applying the rules without fear or favour?
 
With the passage of time it is apparent that the clubs have no inclination to hold the governing bodies to account for flagrant breaches of rules. Any change of direction now will only be achieved after the intervention of the fans in suitable numbers.
 
With specific reference to resolution 12. I firmly believe the board of that club have manipulated the situation to suit a predetermined agenda. Regardless of the eventual outcome, shareholders and stakeholders (the fans) have been denied the opportunity to have that resolution debated fully and ultimately voted upon. At the very least they should have had the debate and provided the justification for the stance which they appear to have taken yet are shy of declaring.  For me, in the context of a relationship between the board and supporters of a football club, such a ploy is not easily forgivable.

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Corrupt official

Corrupt officialPosted on7:33 pm - Mar 29, 2016


@Auldheid
   I think most would agree that Res 12 is about SFA accountability and either the presence of negligence or malfeasance at their hands. I don’t see that any anger directed at Celtic, is anything other than the anger that they will not carry Res 12 to UEFA.  
   On the surface, it appears that Celtic are not so diligently in pursuit of accountability as you are. That IMHO is the root of the anger.
     Are you happy in yourself that Celtic have a valid reason for the approach they are taking? Do you understand the reason, and is it acceptable to you.  

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Ballyargus

BallyargusPosted on7:33 pm - Mar 29, 2016


Killie1962 posted at 1728 following a critisism of how the SFA had mistreated Killie in Europe and asked,”I just wonder if Rangers or Celtic would have received the same treatment, some things never change!!”
This is from an article in the Herald in 2003 re Celtic paranoia:
The 1966 trip to hell and back
Celtic arrived back in Scotland just before midnight on a Friday night after a European trip to play Dynamo Kiev in the European Cup-Winners’ Cup quarter-finals in January, 1966. The players had boarded the plan at Tbilisi where they spent two hours on the runway. They then spent three hours in Moscow because of a technical fault and two hours in Stockholm because of bad weather. When the plane tried to take off for Glasgow a mechanical fault was discovered. Meanwhile, back in Scotland, the Scottish Football League management committee made it clear they had to play Hearts on the Saturday afternoon, even though the players had only had a few hours’ sleep. They claimed Celtic hadn’t officially asked for a postponement and that Rangers had endured such a trip a few years previously and had fulfilled their Saturday fixture. Celtic were beaten 3-2 by Hearts.
I hope that answers your question.02

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jockybhoyPosted on7:33 pm - Mar 29, 2016


Auldheid: absolutely agree that this is an all fan issue and I have lost count of the number of times I have “educated” English friends and colleagues on the fact that what Rangers did was very different from other teams that have done similar issues in England and how the SFA colluded with Rangers boards of all colours and newness to ensure they got the minimum sanctions and the fastest return to “normality” as they were able (nobody could have  factored in Hearts amazing perfromance last season) and my conclusion is: they dont care. I perceive the vast majority interested in Scottish football feel the same.
DO I want Rangers to have gained from deliberately* cheating their way to titles? Do I want other teams (not just mine) to have suffered the consequences? No to both. Am i happy that Celtic don’t have a treble of trebles under our belt and that half a dozen teams have tasted success in Cups and even (lamentably short) European odyssies at our expense? Actually yes – because when Celtic have “got beat” it was because the other team wanted it more – regardless of budget. Much like we all partied whenever the Big Guns of Europe came to Paradise and left empty-handed and outsung 02.
Am I happy that the press and everyone from UEFA to the SMSM via the SNP and the CIA (ok was runnng out of initialisms but you get my point) has glossed over the shortcomings of OldGers, NewGers, OldSFA and NewSPFL? Hell no, but again, this isn’t a cause with which to start a Celtic civil war, it should be about holding those responsible at the sports governing bodies accountable – that IS as you say what Resolution 12 was meant to be about.

Final word from me on this: I am all in favour of pursuing Financial Fair Play in Scotland, but TBH I’d be happy with getting that going forward, given the ongoing shenanigans down Ibrox rather than scoring points fighting dead enemies. And tbh the fact that the SPFL even put it in their questionnaire is a victory for the fans I feel…

* am of the same mind as HMRC on this one, but few other, issues.

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killie1962Posted on7:46 pm - Mar 29, 2016


KILLIE1962MARCH 29, 2016 at 17:28==========================
Always better to do some research before making such posts.
In September 1995 Celtic played a ECWC tie in Georgia against Dynamo Batumi on a Thursday. Such were the travel arrangements to and from that country they could not get back to Glasgow until the early hours of the Saturday. This was known well in advance and the club had asked if the Saturday fixture against Motherwell could be put back 24 hours. The authorities refused. It was not the only time that season they had to play on the Saturday following a Thursday game. Most interesting was the Scottish league deciding in 1996 that a Scottish team (IIRC Hearts) playing on a Thursday and then the following Saturday was unfair, despite deeming it fair enough the year before, and changed the rules.  
Going back to October 1967, Celtic did not return from a Wednesday EC tie in Kiev until late on Friday night. Despite that, they had to play on the Saturday. 
So in answer to your question ‘I just wonder if Rangers or Celtic would have received the same treatment, some things never change!!’, Celtic most certainly received the same treatment, on several occasions.

I do stand in the corner doing penance for my belief that the provincial clubs usually ended up getting the short stick from the powers that be, I do notice that it was both Eastern European trips that cased the delay and these would indeed have been most tiring trips,mind you the Killie squad may not have been as large as the Celtic squad but either way the League put the boot in and it does not say much for the Scottish League or the Scottish Premier league that no help or “accommodation” was given to either team, our boys only had to go from Aberdeen to Liverpool and would have had decent beer to keep the spirits up whilst your boys probably had to intake  dodgy Vodka to keep the spirits up!!
yours in sport
Gaun the Killie

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CrownStBhoy

CrownStBhoyPosted on7:53 pm - Mar 29, 2016


Auldheid
My choice of wording should have been better; the Celtic Board today are constricted but initially they were not.
My point is they could have acted long before any of these impending court cases were on the horizon, they chose to not do so.
My apologies for creating confusion.
Somewhat belatedly, may I express appreciation to you and your team for your efforts, not an easy to pursuit in today’s climate.
My belief is Res 12 will eventually bear fruit; even if only to ensure the debacle it seeks to expose will never happen again, it will have been more than a littles worth.

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FinlochPosted on8:06 pm - Mar 29, 2016


The crowd at Hampden is embarrassing with vast open spaces.

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wottpiPosted on8:14 pm - Mar 29, 2016


HAMPDENBOREMARCH 29, 2016

Like Juror Number 8 someone has to take a stand regardless how unpopular it may make them.
Turnbull Hutton called it right.  Everyone else shat it. 
The Res12 Shareholders have now provided the evidence and the argument to their club to at least open a discussion and review the evidence.

For another film reference,  the situation is like Trainspotting and the scene where Begbie drops his beer mug into the crowded bar. As a lead up to the bar fight Tommy tells the real story re Begbie’s near chibbing in the pool hall and dismisses the whole issue of having a ‘out the park’, troublesome psycho within your band of brothers with ‘But he’s a mate,  what can you do, eh?’. 

As a P.S a trip to Hampden for an 8 o’clock kick off when the Queen Street tunnel works are ongoing makes Hampden a near inaccessible and highly time consuming for anyone outside Glasgow.
Looking at the crowd,  Tynecastle, 20 mins from Haymarket and 10 mns from the Murrayfield tram stop could have easily been full tonight.
1-0 up so that’s something I suppose.

EDIT Finloch – beat me to it 🙂

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tony

tonyPosted on8:17 pm - Mar 29, 2016


BRIGGSBHOY
st mirren 25k for one match so sevco 250k must only be for 10 matches at those figures,so imho its not a farce it’s a disgrace

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Flocculent Apoidea

Flocculent ApoideaPosted on9:06 pm - Mar 29, 2016


Tony, that’s £25k for one player for one match!

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jimboPosted on9:26 pm - Mar 29, 2016


Killie1962 04

Will speak to you tomorrow.  I’m getting fed up with all of this malarkey.  Can’t be bothered thinking about it all.  It’s all been said repeatedly, myself included.  I have a good story to tell you about a Celtic v Kilmarnock game in the early 1990s.  But I will wait until I have cheered up.  Take care.

That’s why I admire JC so much. He never lets us forget. Or let the message drown.

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tony

tonyPosted on9:41 pm - Mar 29, 2016


FLOCCULENT APOIDEA
thought that after i posted lol,worse than a disgrace

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sitcomPosted on10:07 pm - Mar 29, 2016


If I recall correctly there was a young woman raped on the road access to Waverley Station. This offence took place in full view of a number of onlookers. It was postulated that as no onlooker raised the alarm or sought to intervene; each witness had reinforced the inaction of all. 
What I am witnessing with regard to Scotland and Scottish football has sickened me to the core. It is an absolute scandal and the response from the SMSM and our Clubs and the administrators of our game will surely,in the not too distant future, underpin the moribund status that is Scottish football. 
As a witness ,I have advised my club that I will no longer support them and pander to the fiasco that now exists. At least I am not looking the other way.

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jimmciPosted on10:55 pm - Mar 29, 2016


I think most would agree not the most inspiring game tonight but two wins in five days is good – albeit after the Eoro qualifiers. Notwithstanding,  I’m ok with two wins.
however I lustened to Radio Scotland tonight and can clearly see the knives are out for Gordon Strachan. The pundits sounded gutted.
I think he’s being punished so much for ignoring The Rangers players. Mind you, it’s amazing that in two games – without Lee Wallace at the heart of the defence – that we won both games, conceding no goals but the pundits, especially Chick and, sadly, Tom English, seem to be very upset.
Onwards and upwards, Scotland!

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John ClarkPosted on12:17 am - Mar 30, 2016


jimmciMarch 29, 2016 at 22:55
‘. I lustened to Radio Scotland tonight and can clearly see the knives are out for Gordon Strachan. The pundits sounded gutted.I think he’s being punished so much for ignoring The Rangers players.’
________
 
I doubt if there has ever been a more inarticulate radio presenter than ‘never-finish-the-sentence-you-begin-with’ Chick.
But added to that  fatal (or ought to be!) deficiency in a broadcaster, there is now a very pronounced, if random, capacity for coming out with things of no actual relevance to the matter in hand.
He did it with his ‘Rabbie Burns was nearer in date to Hibs last cup win than we are’, and he did it tonight with his comment  on a substitution that Strachan was about to make , ‘well, it ‘s not a Celtic player, there’s six of them already’.
I had only just tuned in , as I set to to eat my would-have-been-nice dinner if I hadn’t been late home, when I heard Chick coming out with that comment.
Mrs C and I looked at each other in blank astonishment. Now,I do not swear in front of Mrs C, and she does not swear at all( except perhaps under her breath, and at me), but I know that three words beginning respectively with W, T, and F, would have been  uttered by each of us simultaneously if we did not so much respect each others sensibilities!
What was going through the  absolute tangle of synapses in that wee man’s ‘brain’? He is clearly in some kind of emotional state that he now, I fear,  cannot control.
I think a considerate employer should be gently easing him out of a situation of such stress. He is well past his ‘useful till’ date!

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John ClarkPosted on1:07 am - Mar 30, 2016


jimboMarch 29, 2016 at 21:26
‘..That’s why I admire JC so much. He never lets us forget. Or let the message drown.’
_________
Ah, jimbo! There are many who would dearly love us to ‘forget’.
 And many who would like to drown the truth of things.
And, of course, many who simply do not know the truth, because they they take their information from the SMSM.
And we are talking of objective truth: not ‘legitimate differences of  opinion’ as , for example, whether Pele was better than Messi.
The facts are there about jiggery pokery, by one club, and by the Football Authorities.Incontrovertibly.
What normal human being could be happy to forget the facts, and continue to throw his money in the direction of those who would wish to forget the facts and throw dust in our eyes?
The world of Scottish Football is not the world of the Ropers of the illegal arms trade( ‘The Night Manager’) but it is the world of the Knight Majority Shareholder and his allies and friends.
And baddies by definition have to be resisted.

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AuldheidPosted on1:08 am - Mar 30, 2016


Corrupt Official

Are you happy in yourself that Celtic have a valid reason for the approach they are taking? Do you understand the reason, and is it acceptable to you.  

==========
I am not happy that Celtic have had a valid reason because of its validity. The provenance of the information bedevilled progress from the outset.
Am I happy that because of that the requisitioners  had to run with things? Not at all but that was the position we found ourselves in and had a duty to the signatories to the resolution to pursue.
If you want a prediction about the outcome I’ve always believed we had right on our side and we were doing what we were for the right reasons.
I thought/think that would/will win in the end. Call it an act of faith.

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Corrupt official

Corrupt officialPosted on3:13 am - Mar 30, 2016


AULDHEIDMARCH 30, 2016 at 01:08 
     Thanks for that Auldheid. I don’t want to add to the many frustrations you must have encountered en route. But I sincerely wish Celtic, as my club, were providing a more public support, and in turn, other clubs were providing support to them. A lot of folk, myself included, are hoping that Res 12 is the torch that shines in some very dark corners where previous candles have been snuffed out. It is not unreasonable to expect Celtic, who have innocently probably lost the most, to provide a wind-break. And frankly, as the most powerful club in Scotland, it should be a great big public feckin wind-break visible from the moon. 
    As you are saying there is validity in Celtic’s position, then I will take you at your word, but there may be a silver lining in fans giving them a hard time. It may just be the pointy stick that offers them encouragement. A wee statement, even an AIM announcement, acknowledging that shareholders are taking these steps would help bring comfort to fans, and force the SMSM to take notice. 
   Keep up the good fight mate. I’m not a man of faith, except in my fellow man, but I do love a happy ending. This has all the makings of one. You’re on the right road. 

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tayred

tayredPosted on8:31 am - Mar 30, 2016


JOCKYBHOYMARCH 29, 2016 at 18:54 TayRed: I know some have posted on here that they’ve made contact with their boards but I haven’t seen much response from them in terms of their boards’ actions. And that brings me to Resolution12: or whatever you guys numbered it… I don’t see that many lambast in their boards or a plethora of posters bragging about leaving their team like ex-Bhoys do. 

—————————————————————————————————-
Jocky, alas I haven’t posted any responses from the AFC board as I have received absolutely no response from them. Thats for several emails and letters posted to several addresses. I can only imagine that others have hit the same stone wall of silence.

As for folks stating that they won’t go back, I’d have to disagree. The same debate that I see taking place in places such as Kerrydalestreet is taking place in several other chat sites for AFC, Hearts etc. Numbers as always are impossible to gauge. One factor you do have to take into account is that as “diddies” we are perhaps more used to being ignored (ignored isn’t the right word, but I am only started my first coffee of the morning so you’ll have to guess what I mean 15) and therefore as a support more inclined just to shrug shoulders and say “it was always thus”, although in broad Doric that translates into something perhaps more colourful.

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wottpiPosted on8:32 am - Mar 30, 2016


I know our friend Ryan has implied that we may be coming ‘obsessed’ with regard to the MSM’s coverage of Warburton stories but what do you expect after today’s effort.

I was going to highlight the Scotsman’s contribution but it seems from The Clumpany that the Evening Shark Jump just ran the same puff piece delivered straight from Govan Central.

We are told Warbs has been doing his pro-licence courses and is nearly finished. Again we are reminded he is a former man from The City, was the top honcho in the Nex-Gen series and is now mingling with all the big names in world football. 

If you were really cruel the headline could read  “Bloke going through a mid-life crisis and with failed football tourney behind him attempts to get a football education by hob-nobbing with experienced real football men.”

It really is straying into the “Ex- Ranger’s player’s girlfriend’s mum broke her finger nail'” territory.

The repetition of the same story on a weekly basis could be said to be just as boring as our constant discussions re Dodgy Registrations and Uefa Licences.

It surely is going to be a battle of who can stay awake the longest at this rate!!! (Which of course is the plan of ‘The let’s move on brigade’)

Funnily enough when the sports editors need to fill column inches with such pap, still no official statement or press release from Ibrox about losing the appeal on the £250k fine. Guilty M’Lord

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tayred

tayredPosted on8:56 am - Mar 30, 2016


JIMMCIMARCH 29, 2016 at 22:55 I think most would agree not the most inspiring game tonight but two wins in five days is good – albeit after the Eoro qualifiers. Notwithstanding,  I’m ok with two wins.however I lustened to Radio Scotland tonight and can clearly see the knives are out for Gordon Strachan. The pundits sounded gutted.I think he’s being punished so much for ignoring The Rangers players. Mind you, it’s amazing that in two games – without Lee Wallace at the heart of the defence – that we won both games, conceding no goals but the pundits, especially Chick and, sadly, Tom English, seem to be very upset.Onwards and upwards, Scotland!

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I didn’t listen to the match, I didn’t take myself to pub to watch it on Sky or find some dodgy stream so I can’t comment on the punditry. I had almost forgotten we were playing to be honest, but was somewhat depressed to realise that I was in fact gutted with the score. I honestly wanted Scotland to lose, lose both games. I’m appalled at myself. But there you have it. The SFA is a joke, Strachan is a joke, his squads are jokes, his teams are jokes and then there are those strips!!

So we ground out two 1-0 victories in friendlies. So far so good, but look at the teams he is putting out. What is the point in playing Greer, Whittaker, Mulgrew, Brown, S. Fletcher, Martin? Strachan tells us he didn’t pick someone like Shinnie because “he knows what he can do for us”. Does that mean he is still trying to work out what Whittaker gives us (although to be fair I often wonder that)? Or Mulgrew? Or 35 year old Greer? His arrogance in press conferences has slipped from cheeky chappy to downright condescending and borderline insulting. I note John Clark (I hope thats who it was) commenting on Chico making a comment about the number of Celtic players on the park. Johns absolutely right – wtf! But then only 1 Aberdeen player in the 2 squads wtf? Hearts had how many representatives – 1 as well? wtf?

I’m not saying the squad should be full of SPFL players, but the selection policy is clear – SPFL players are largely to be ignored unless they play for Celtic (a Celtic side widely accepted not to be at their best) after that select from English Premiership squad players (doesn’t matter if they playing for their club or not), then the English Championship and any gaps we can fill with some crap from the SPFL. 

Look at Hampden last night. Empty. Why? Well yes OK, its a friendly. Secondly its at Hampden, a crap place to get to from anywhere especially when Queen St station is in a mess. It really should have been taken elsewhere. Thirdly, and most worryingly, there is a genuine disconnect between the national team and the fans. Fans don’t know these players Strachan digs up, hands up anyone who knew all the players in the squad? That’s not necessarily a bad thing of course, but there is a growing sense that these players are being picked in preference to SPFL talents without being any better than domestic talent and it is annoying the hell out of a lot of people. Allied to his continued use of old players who simply will not be available come the next championship! Old players who failed to get us through the last qualification competition. Why aren’t we blooding young players? What hell is the point in playing Greer!?? Check out any AFC chat site and you will see an almost complete disconnect. Folks aren’t just not interested, they are downright hostile to the team and  I now find myself in that position where I find myself hoping they lose. I know comments made on sites for a few other teams are very, very similar. 

So yes, I hope the knives are out for Strachan. Personally I would have removed him at the end of the Euro qualifications.

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naegreetinPosted on9:05 am - Mar 30, 2016


Re: Mash vs SFA 28 April – Judicial Review of DCK appointment as fit & proper

This review , potentially , could provide a fascinating insight as to how the SFA operate which is why I’ll be amazed if it gets to a court situation – if it does & a ruling is granted in favour of Mash Holdings what happens (could happen) as a result ? Can the SFA approach Mash in advance of 28 April & try to agree a compromise to avoid the full glare of publicity on their modus operandi ?
They (the SFA) appear to be in a difficult position here but hey , that hasn’t prevented them in the past from coming up with a Brysonesque solution to a problem .

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grecian urnPosted on9:35 am - Mar 30, 2016


TAYREDMARCH 30, 2016 at 08:31
How about marginalised ?02

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tayred

tayredPosted on9:45 am - Mar 30, 2016


GRECIAN URNMARCH 30, 2016 at 09:35 
TAYREDMARCH 30, 2016 at 08:31How about marginalised ?

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Yes! I likes that!

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bordersdonPosted on9:49 am - Mar 30, 2016


tayredMarch 30, 2016 at 08:56
———————————————–
It really should have been taken elsewhere. – Agree
What hell is the point in playing Greer!?? – Agree even more
I now find myself in that position where I find myself hoping they lose. – tut tut tayred, tut tut.

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wottpiPosted on10:01 am - Mar 30, 2016


TAYREDMARCH 30, 2016

I get where you are coming from.

The SFA has a duty to help put out the best team out when it comes to the national side. However they also have a duty to promote the domestic leagues.

Strachan gets plus points for giving Tierney and McGinn a game but looses many for fielding a bunch of oldies that we all know very well what they can (or can’t)  do in meaning less friendlies.

However most ridiculous decision of last night is giving a full cap to Oliver Burke (big strapping laddie for someone who is down as a winger).

Nothing against the young Mr Burke, he may be the real deal,  but he has 6 U19 caps and has played a total of 16 (YES 16 ) pro games with 2 goals. 12 this season with Forrest and  4 last year (2 for Forest and 2 with Bradford on loan).

Meanwhile , for example, Hearts young tricky wingers like Walker (123 games, 26 goals), Nicolson (82 games, 10 goals) and dare I say on loan at Ibrox (and gagging to be kept on if the papers are to be believed) Billy King (87 games, 14 goals) just get a sniff at age group representation. 

Similarly Liam Bridcutt (who he?) gets a second cap and comes on showing us all what skill he has to offer the national team by scything a Danish bloke in two.

All at the same time Jordan Rhodes 318 games and 167 goals (an a near constant 2:1 game to goals ratio each season) somehow doesn’t get a look in as he apparently doesn’t  fit in with ‘the system’

One really has to question what some Scottish based players (and indeed consistent goal scorers)  have to do to get a look in and what that does that do for the aspirations of young boys playing in teams from Annan to Achiltibuie and hoping they may get to wear the dark blue of their nation.

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tayred

tayredPosted on10:04 am - Mar 30, 2016


BORDERSDONMARCH 30, 2016 at 09:49 ———————————————–It really should have been taken elsewhere. – AgreeWhat hell is the point in playing Greer!?? – Agree even moreI now find myself in that position where I find myself hoping they lose. – tut tut tayred, tut tut.

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Is it really so different to saying you will never go back to watch your team due to the TRFC/SFA shenanigans though? I believe the national team is being very badly managed, Strachan and his management team are destroying the link with the fans. Winning is just going to prolong this. Sounds ridiculous I know, we are winning so why would you want to change. But playing the old guard, who are lets face it not exactly world class anyway, just means at some point in the future youngsters are going to be dropped into the team and will be made scapegoats when their inexperience inevitably causes problems. 

I should have added to my rant earlier – part of the lack of crowd may be due to people deciding that they are no longer willing to part with their hard-earned cash to pay the corrupt SFA. Numbers of course impossible to judge.

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bordersdonPosted on10:43 am - Mar 30, 2016


tayredMarch 30, 2016 at 10:04
I should have added to my rant earlier – part of the lack of crowd may be due to people deciding that they are no longer willing to part with their hard-earned cash to pay the corrupt SFA. Numbers of course impossible to judge.
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Certainly impossible to judge but I would hazard a guess at within the range of 1 – 100. As mentioned on here before yer average punter just wants to have a good day/night out, support his/her team and hopefully see them win!
Anent your comments on WGS we are all entitled to our view but I agree that if he was to go it should have been after the EURO qualification failure. But to be replaced by ????? (OT I know)

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wottpiPosted on11:10 am - Mar 30, 2016


BORDERSDONMARCH 30, 2016 at 10:43

Not sure what is ‘Off Topic’.

The site is the Scottish Football Monitor

We have a national side playing in an inaccessible stadium that many folk don’t like and for years have suffered a series of managers without an overall development /continuity system who have either dished out caps willy-nilly or stuck with old players for far too long at the expense of developing the next generation of internationalists.

While we are a small nation, our failure to qualify for a major tournament since 1998 when other small nations have is a terrible record and yet another significant failing to be added to the list of many held by the SFA.

You ask who could replace WGS? Surely Warbs is a shoe in? He could do it part-time and blind folded. 🙂

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Reiver

ReiverPosted on11:18 am - Mar 30, 2016


Bordersdon.

“But to be replaced by ?????”

Obvious surely.

Warburton!! Of course.

Edit

Damnit WOTTPI. Give me chance to get in first!1414

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Reiver

ReiverPosted on11:33 am - Mar 30, 2016


Auldheid

On the subject of Celtic suggesting that it would be better for the fans to contact UEFA than the club, was that suggestion made in writing. If it were then surely that could be included in your documentation to UEFA as proof that you were doing the club’s bidding.
It might just be enough to put your paperwork on the top of their pile.

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bordersdonPosted on12:26 pm - Mar 30, 2016


wottpiMarch 30, 2016 at 11:10
Not sure what is ‘Off Topic’.
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Was just thinking personal opinions on who the manager should be is probably OT. I do however agree that discussion on the underlying reasons for our shocking record in qualification for Euros and Worlds is perfectly legitimate.
Surely disrespectful to suggest Warbs though 03

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TommyBPosted on12:33 pm - Mar 30, 2016


I wonder how many people think that the requisitioners of res 12 have been and are still being misguided and misdirected by CFC. I was at the agm when the resolution was “shelved”. At the time I was of the opinion that res 12 would continuously go to the bottom of the boards priority list. Nothing since has changed my thinking. Celtic have no appetite for this and the suggestion that the shareholders should pursue it on their own is preposterous.Without the backing of the club or scottish football authorities, then UEFA will at best, pay it lip service, before dismissing it. The only weapon that supporters have, is their ability to withhold funds, unfortunately the majority of fans hardly even know what the fight is about. Propaganda from various quarters will continue to push the message that the return of the prodigal team is going to benefit all of Scottish football. I and many others like me will ponder seriously before renewing ST’s. Regardless of this, the show will go on and “the people who think they are” will follow blindly.

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TheClumpanyPosted on1:05 pm - Mar 30, 2016


Good Afternoon.

I have written to the Scottish Football Supporters Association about the current Supporters Direct Scotland survey and the issues of good governance which are inadequately addressed therein. The email is pasted below and forms part of a longer blog which you can find over on my site.

Cheers.

TC

>>>>
Dear Mr Goodwin.

I wanted to draw your attention to my concerns about the survey which is currently being run by Supporters Direct Scotland in partnership with the SFA. These are set out in the attached blog.

https://theclumpany.wordpress.com/2016/03/29/surveying-the-damage/

You will see that while I welcome much of the ground covered by the survey, I think it is woefully lacking in material about improving the governance of the game, which I believe to be the single biggest problem we face. I am also hugely sceptical about the action that the governing bodies will take in response to the survey. The SFA and SPFL remain aloof, unresponsive and seemingly utterly unaccountable to fans, and this is helping to create a poisonous running sore in our game.

Whilst the Scottish Football Supporters Association is not responsible for the Suporters Direct Scotland survey, I would be very interested to know your views on it, whether you intend to take an interest in its findings, and whether you will put pressure on the SFA to genuinely listen and act upon them.

I ask this bearing in mind your recently-published Fans’ Manifesto. In particular point 8, which is headed “Regular, independent auditing and review of the performance of governing bodies and clubs”. The detailed wording of point 8 pretty much hits the nail on the head as far as I and many others are concerned.

I would also be interested to hear more about any activities that the SFSA itself has in train to promote better and more accountable governance in Scottish football.

I will post this email on my blog site and would also like to post any reply that I receive from you.

Many thanks in advance.

Yours sincerely,”

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