I have been receiving quite a bit of unflattering mail about the “agenda” being pursued on this blog. Depending on the correspondent, that is defined as either denying people their civil right to gloat, hiding the “truth” that people of the RC faith are welcomed and encouraged to come to Ibrox, or indulging in Chamberlain-style appeasement with the banning of the “H” word and other incontrovertible rights-to-insult.
The objection to moderation of any sort appears to be at the root of these diatribes. Our position here in terms of moderation is clear. There is no “agenda” other than a desire not to be chasing up posts containing the rantings and ravings of partisan types who “demand” their right to be heard no matter how objectionable it might be to those hear it. We are not here to service a conduit for conspiracy theories based in Masonic Lodges or the Vatican. There are plenty of places where people can indulge in that kind of stuff, but the moderators here are just not interested. The administration of the site takes around four hours per day. That’s a long time trawling through posts which often set out deliberately to insult, abuse or otherwise cause offence – mildly or otherwise.
Our view is that the blog will only have cross-club support if we stick to what we can substantiate by fact or reasonably infer from the way things proceed. Further, we feel that if we are to gain credibility as an alternative source of news and comment to the MSM, that we need to cut down on the fansite type comments. There is no dignity (a word often used here) in calling the Rangers manager or their fans names. We need to maintain higher standards of impartiality than football fansites, because we know that a united fan base can actually make a difference as RTC did when the SPL chairmen were gearing up for a parachute for the new Rangers. OT discussions are fine, and often amusing, but they shouldn’t become the main reason to come here.
The requirement to have a WordPress account before posting here is not in any way draconian. It is designed to make people accountable for what they post whilst still maintaining anonymity, and therefore being exempt from moderation. Those who don’t like it are not being compelled to carry out any instruction – they only need go to a place where they don’t feel so constrained.
If the main issue of this blog becomes how the blog is being administered – or how the moderation policy is affecting the human rights of posters, we may as well just pack up now.
There have never been any objections to the suggested posting rules on here. We assume that people who post are reasonably intelligent. Therefore it seems fair to assume that those who have ignored the suggested posting rules did so deliberately. If that doesn’t happen, moderation is just not required.
If what we are trying to do fails because of our posting framework, then we will be blamed. We are certain though, that we can have no credibility if we indulge ourselves in conspiracy theories and constant references to anachronistic organisations, the Scottish school system, and the leanings of referees.
There is real corruption in Scottish football. It is based not on religious rivalries but on greed and acquisitiveness. The only thing that matters is that we identify that corruption and help put an end to it.
Our job is to ask questions and not jump to our own conclusions about the answers. That will divide us as surely as the realisation of the depth of the corruption united us. To be totally united as fans, we need to have more Rangers fans on here. Therefore we need to create an atmosphere that they can be comfortable with. Is that the case right now? The anger for RFC’s mismanagement and abuse of the game in Scotland is real, but we need to look forward if we are truly committed to ensuring that what happened to Rangers can’t happen again.
We’re not gonna throw the toys out of the pram here. If anyone else would like to run the blog under those circumstances of zero moderation, we will be happy to hand over the domain. There is no “agenda” – we will be happy to hand the work over to others.
The initial posting which proposed the change to WordPress logins received over 130 TUs and only three TDs. Subsequently the post advising of the changes got around 100 TUs and 100 TDs. It seems that minds are not entirely made up.
To get some closure on this once and for all, we have added a poll below to end on Saturday at 1700 where you can decide whether you want to go along with our original plan in terms of login and moderation. We obviously recommend that you vote “Yes”
“Rangers” are “Rangers” notwithstanding the legal nuances caused by the application of various bankruptcy laws. The heritage and records of the Club rest with the institution that is “Rangers,” and no amount of self-serving diatribe to the contrary, no matter how relentlessly pursued, can rewrite history.
Your history ends when the club is liquidated – fact.
AJ – what steps did you take when in post as an official of the club (and company) to protect its gistory?
jmaclure says:
September 24, 2012 at 14:35
5 11 Rate This
justiceintegrity says:
September 24, 2012 at 14:16
Classic JMcLure, i am sure i saw SDM and CW at the top table…
————————————————————————————–
Considering the following: ……………………. Would it be naughty of me to suggest I wish he was still there working on our case.
————————-
He once was a serious fraud investigator.
brenda 5 RTC tweets from the last 12 hours – you should really sign up 😉
Rangers Tax-Case @rangerstaxcase
It is one or the other- if Sevco bought Deadco’s “honours”, then Sevco can be punished. Without Deadco’s record, cannot punish Sevco…
Rangers Tax-Case @rangerstaxcase
I wonder why Green has not leaked any data that would refute the charges of 11 years of cheating?
Rangers Tax-Case @rangerstaxcase
@CharlesMccurley @CQN A ban for X years on being allowed in the SPL cannot be excluded. Green’s statements make that more likely.
Rangers Tax-Case @rangerstaxcase
Scottish media- especially Daily Record- have plumbed new depths in trying to keep Sevco fans happy.
Rangers Tax-Case @rangerstaxcase
Green has access to all the evidence. Looks like he thinks RFC did cheat for 11 years. He is only disputing the likely punishment.
or do as paulsatim says: 😉
mirrenman
Thank you and I will get round to it 😉
I accept that there are many decent RFC fans out there who have given their support to their team for valid, decent, honest and ‘normal’ reasons – just like your average football fans everywhere else. I can also understand the hurt and, in some cases, the anger being felt by many ‘Rangers’ fans at the demise of something they held dear. Fans of any club would feel the same if their particular club was in peril for whatever reason.
Having said that, the attitude of ‘Rangers’ as a club and officials past and present, the reaction from the overwhelming majority of their supporters, the sycophantic support from the media, the double-dealing of the football authorities and the manoeuvering of the shady shadows behind the scenes puts an entirely different perspective on the situation. Simply put, if ‘Rangers’ continue to exist in any shape or form that can be directly linked to its old or even current manifestation it will be impossible for any meaningful progress to be made either in terms of the rehabilitation of Scottish football or the good of Scottish society as a whole. There is now far too much baggage. Problematic and challenging though it may be, enough is surely now more than enough for anyone with any sense of decency, morality and justice or anyone with the best interests of the game at heart.
I hope that by whatever means – fair of course, not foul – we soon see the end of this charade and that RFC, newco, oldco or whatever it may actually be is consigned to history. Unfair on the decent RFC–minded section of the Community some may say, but arguably even they are open to a charge of complicity, or at least dereliction, in not addressing the issues openly and as rationally. A few notable exceptions aside, the silence from that quarter has been deafening, leaving the impression that they are perhaps content with the public utterances of their more vocal bedfellows. Or perhaps they actually recognise that their club hasn’t a leg to stand on and privately agree with the rest of us.
If, thereafter, some group wishes to start up a new club [in accordance with the usual conditions of course]free from the taint, ignominy and discredited history of the entity we currently know as ‘Rangers’, then that would be fine by me. They could even incorporate the word ‘Rangers’ somewhere in their title for old time’s sake, play in blue or whatever, but only if it is firmly established that it is the birth of a new club not any reincarnation of the old.
None of this is going to be easy but in the long term I believe it will be easier – and so much better – than having to live with what we have now. And whilst it may be obvious that I am no fan of RFC, this has not been written from a partisan perspective. However much we might sometimes be misled by our own preconceptions, in the final analysis, right is still right and wrong is still wrong. The struggle continues!
Corrupt dots are easier to join than any other ones
So
Whats the betting we are all being set up for yet another corrupt decision by the SFA this time to cancel the LNS Tribunal ?
I reckon its 4/6 that the LNS Tribunal will not be cancelled for the simple reason that they are all terrified at 15 yrs of complicity being exposed
I also reckon CO will be gone before this cancellation is announced
They dont accept any blame but they do enforce the blame culture aided and abetted by
Mr Traynor and his cabal of apologists
So far they have blamed Craig Whyte, Stewart Regan ,Neil Doncaster ,RTC , the politicians,
Peter Lawell ,Phil McG, Bogits , other clubs fans, the BBC , Stewart Cosgrove, Radio Clyde ,
Opus Dei , HMRC,Paul Baxendale Stalker, Duff and Phelps , Lord Nimmo and Colonel Gadaffi
Why is the finger of blame not directed at Lord Minty , Mr Surrender No , Martin Bain, Campbell Ogilvie and all the other rogues who sat at the square table initiating the scam,
Its like blaming Jesus for the Spanish Inquisition
AJ says
“A verdict that Rangers essentially did not in fact adhere to stipulated procedures, does not warrant capital punishment.”
======================
Has even the bammiest of Internet Bampots ever suggested such a punishment?
Carlislecelt
Whatever the severity, the punishment will never fit the crime. The MSM and politicians are seeing to it. They’ve already turned on the ignition, glanced in the mirror, signalled and manoeuvred.
Their raison d’etre has been the same for decades. The separation now, of one from the other, does nothing to sell their rags nor generate the hatred their headlines encouraged since time began. We’ve all been suckered by the forgeries they’ve passed up as credible exclusives. We bought it and politicians jumped on it with fingers readily pointed at the ‘divide’ in the West of Scotland for all things wrong in society. W Smith himself stated so, circa 2008. I quote him on sectarianism:
“It is being kept alive by a proportion of our support, the media – who are happy to keep it going for the sake of selling papers – and by politicians”.
Don’t hold your breath. They need their ‘fix’ more than our neighbours want their team back at the top table.
AJ states “A verdict that Rangers essentially did not in fact adhere to stipulated procedures, does not warrant capital punishment”
Capital punishment is a legal process whereby a person is put to death by the state as a punishment for a crime. Perhaps stripping of titles, severe financial penalties or suspension may be a more appropriate punishment for mere procedural lapses.
The AJ statement of utter whataboutery and shameless admittence of industrial level EBT use seems odd in its timing…..considering Lord Nimmo has stated their investigation is not due to sit again until November 2012…one wonders what maybe landing this week or next?
Stand by yer beds and get ready…
Just read that spew from ‘Surrender? No!’ Johnstone. Judgment Day is coming and he knows it. That statement wouldn’t look out of place on FF. Their total lack of contrition and their outright refusal to accept that what they did was wrong is exactly why so many people will be glad when the ‘Big Hoose’ closes down forever. I mean even Craig Whyte (Whytey be praised!) knew that EBT’s were dubious!
Surely it’s not long now considering the hysterical squealing from everyone connected to RFC PLC (IL); after all it must feel pretty damn scary to have the taxman and the fraud squad ready to pounce once the FTT tribunal winds up! I suppose they always did welcome a chase…..
Again it reminds me of that joke: “How can you tell a Rangers man is lying? He releases a statement!” 😀
I’ve added some guidance on posting to the FAQ page wrt the “banned” words. I’d appreciate it if people took the time to have a look.
On the moderation issue, I am personally getting pretty tired having to ask people NOT to add their grievances to the main blog, but to contact us directly. Any comments about moderation sent to us directly, we will try to deal with them asap.
Any that are added to the main blog will be deleted. If people are unhappy about that, we suggest that you go elsewhere.
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/rangers-in-the-league-cup-a-true-underdog-story.18965626
Dear Agony Aunt
My problem is that I have been charged with shop lifting. I went to a store and could not find a shopping basket and was too much of a hurry to get one of those stupid trollies – so I did what many people do, i got a few items and carried them to the till and paid for them. It was just milk and a few steak and bakes etc – all very cheap stuff.
When I got to the door, the beeper went off and they found that I had a few cds in my jacket pocket. As I had too much to carry I forgot I had put them in my pocket so that I did not drop them
The shop is now stating I tried to steal them but technically I never got outside the door so I never actually stole them as such – more like I forgot to pay for them. They did ask me to pay for them but I had no money on me to pay for them – which is why I put them in my pocket in the first place. Now the procurator fiscal wants to take me to court and give me a punishment. I don’t understand why – if the shop had a bigger basket and more of them, it would never have happened. Anyway, the CDs shoudl not be so expensive anyway – if they made them affordable I could ahve paid for them, but it is just really unfair to persecute me and hound me like this. It is not as if I meant to be caught – I read the sign that says they will prosecute shopliffters but I did not think they would catch me – even if I did do that, which I never.
Only reason I wanted the CDs was my neighbour (who I hate) is always bragging about the collection he had and I wanted to have just as god a colleciton – what is the crime in wanting to be have a better collection? Surely no one can have a problem with that?
If my boss paid me more I would be able to have a better collection than him – so why is it my fault the pay is so small for my occupation? This is society’s fault that they don’t pay me – not mine.
Anyway – I am sure everyone knew they could try to put CD’s in their pocket if they wanted to, so why are they singling me out?
Why is society treating me like a thief and hounding me and threatening me with punishements? It is just not fair. When will it all end?
AJ
Agony Aunt – Dear AJ – it will end when you stop being a thief. You knew the rules, you knew the risks and yet you still went ahead – try not to be so jealous of your neighbour and take it on the chin like a man – no one wants to hear pathetic sob stories blaiming everyone esle – especially from theifs!
TSFM …… I’m sorry
wot about the wee tax case ???
anybody ! ! ! !
Troubledfan – not only the wee tax case but the tax fraud from last year certainly was not a “technicality”.
Seems this is being swept under the carpet. The wee tax case was agreed by RFC to be paid – and not only did they not pay it, they also refused to pay PAYE/VAT and everything else – supposedly a tactic CW thought woudl bring Hector to the negociating table.
Then we had the plan to get to the end of the season to gain the prize money for the creditors – only for it to be given to CG to negociate in the SPL bargaining for the 5 way agreement.
So not only did RFC not pay the tax of 4.5 million they agreed they owed last year, they then never paid taxes for a season thereby cheating the tax payers out of 4.5 million last summer and a further 18 million during 2011/12 season.
Take away the EBT/Dual contract cheating.
If any other team in SPL did this avoiding of payign tax they all agreed they did owe (22 million) they would be a fit punishment I would hope.
The fact there is another 50 million on top due to EBT/Dual contracts which may well be charitably viewed as “technicality” – I don’t – but let’s say the FTT rules in their favour – let’s for clarity take this out of the equation and read it again.
A business in Scotland willingly and knowingly did not pay Hector 22 million pounds it agreed that it owed over 1 year And 12 months later has not and will not pay it.
This fact is not disputed nor has any excuse for other than a wee man did it and ran away…….
That enough would be something they should be ashamed for…………..
exiledcelt @ 6:27
Thank you for that timely reminder 🙂 it’s amazing how you can lose track in this whole sorry mess……… I’m sure HMRC have not lost track though and are waiting to pounce…………. hopefully!!! If not ??? Will they go for individuals?? Really hope so 🙂
Was the tax fraud from last season not already felt with? In footballing terms anyway. ‘Second only to match fixing’ rings a bell, along with a transfer ban now in place.
readcelt says:
September 25, 2012 at 07:08
Was the tax fraud from last season not already felt with? In footballing terms anyway. ‘Second only to match fixing’ rings a bell, along with a transfer ban now in place.
*********
Not the 4.5 million – only the non payment of taxes and for that they got a meaningless transfer embargo shifted to suit them after everyone walked away from the new club – oh but hang on – its the same club – so how could they refuse to TUPE over? LOL
But for all this hand wringing, there is little attention to the wee tax case as troubledfan was saying – they admitted guilt but still never paid – and the money not paid last year (morally is another issue) was sacrificed by the public – for what – to give CG another 2 million quid in prize money………….
exiledcelt says:
September 25, 2012 at 05:48
Hope you realise that over on FF they’ll be saying, ‘see, I knew all those bampots on TSFM were a load of theives!’
Nice one exiled 😉
Nothing beats a couple of RTC-tweets in the morning 🙂
*****************
2mRangers Tax-Case@rangerstaxcase
This issue is about whether all payments to players were declared in contracts given to SFA/SPL. This did not happen. End of story AJ.
5mRangers Tax-Case@rangerstaxcase
AJ’s accounts did not say that players were using EBTs or provide any hint that legality was in question. Media buying the myth.
8mRangers Tax-Case@rangerstaxcase
AJ: classic distraction with “it was on our accounts” what was in your accounts AJ. Explain what YOUR accounts declared to anyone?
10mRangers Tax-Case@rangerstaxcase
AJ? Is that the same AJ who tried to convince RFC fans that tax bill was an MIH thing & not a problem for Rangers?
**************
justiceintegrity says:
September 25, 2012 at 00:23
AJ states “A verdict that Rangers essentially did not in fact adhere to stipulated procedures, does not warrant capital punishment”
Capital punishment is a legal process whereby a person is put to death by the state as a punishment for a crime.
——
I thought that a strange thing for AJ to come out with. Evidently, he sees that “Rangers FC” – the Club, the entity, the institution – are in the dock here. LNS says as much in his Reasons.
Application of “capital punishment” to the accused – Rangers FC – then. This is what AJ has every reason to believe may be the outcome. His statement has all the markings of a final summing up by a defence lawyer, trying to head the inevitable verdict and sentence off at the last minute.
Except it’s not the last minute yet.
Roll on the SFA statement. Could it be “RFC have accepted losing some titles, so LNS will not sit, move along now”, or will it be “If RFC are found guilty,they will be punted over the horizon”?
Rangers Tax-Case @rangerstaxcase
Reminder time: RFC did not declare most payments through EBTs to SFA/SPL. They were required to declare all payments.
Rangers Tax-Case @rangerstaxcase
Reminder time: RFC told HMRC that these payments were non-contractual loans and that there were no side letters or obligations to pay.
Rangers Tax-Case @rangerstaxcase
Reminder time: but RFC had actually given many players side letters and comfort letters saying that loans did not need to be repaid.
Rangers Tax-Case @rangerstaxcase
Reminder time: RFC were involved in an elaborate deception over many years- and people think that their directors will tell the truth now?
over on Rangers media, a bit of in-fighting
http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=239042
They don’t like Mr ‘ devisive’ Dingwall much
😉
Is this thing on?
Alrighty then.
More desperate stuff from Mr Surrender-No.
Not that I think the commission will take a blind bit of notice of S-N’s ramblings, but if they do, S-N may have cause to regret this particular plea.
Asking the commission to consider the consequences of the EBTs could widen their remit to look at the financial advantage and possible illegality of the way they were used, leading to a conclusion that there was indeed an element of financial doping.
If I were S-N, I would be happier to keep the discussion to the contractual registration part of the issue and avoid any discussion of the greater consequences of the EBTs.
Poor Raman from STV. Thats how the Rangers fans deal with people in the Media.
http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/news/4555393/TV-Raman-and-Rangers-fans-in-race-row.html
I know things have moved on a bit recently and that His Lordship’s recent comments on ‘newco, oldco, do the fandang-co’ have opened up another can of worms but, no matter the bluster and dissembling from the guilty parties across the board, the facts and essence of this sordid affair remain the same.
Having re-read RTC’s final [so far] blog ‘Digging the Hole Ever Deeper’ this morning, my mind is clear, my disgust undiminished and my hopes for a just outcome renewed. A very refreshing pick-me-up indeed – give it a taste. Hopefully someone in His Lordship’s camp might even have brought it to his attention.
angus1983 says: September 25, 2012 at 08:54
I thought that a strange thing for AJ to come out with. Evidently, he sees that “Rangers FC” – the Club, the entity, the institution – are in the dock here. LNS says as much in his Reasons.
Application of “capital punishment” to the accused – Rangers FC – then. This is what AJ has every reason to believe may be the outcome.
Is AJ/Surrender-no not just trying to distance HIMSELF from any outcome? If it’s Rangers “the club” in the dock and getting punished, there’s no reason to go after any board member or chairman that may have ratified the EBts/additional contracts etc shirley.
Didn’t HMRC imply they weren’t going to stand in the way of the administration/liquidation as it meant they could go after those really responsible. Wonder where the former chairman/board member (did he get performance bonuses? Was he paid purely through PAYE?) stands in all that fallout.
But yeah, please don’t strip the club of “honours” (sic).
Does not one single person amongst the “Rangers minded” or the journalists of the MSM (two broadly overlapping groups, it seems) see anything hypocritical at all in the contrast between their pitiful bleatings at just the thought of any consequences following from “administrative errors”, and the treatment doled out by the SFA to Spartans for just one isolated clerical error in filling out a form?
If the Spartans case is used as an accurate benchmark, RFC will be kicked out of Scottish senior football for several years, looking at the levels of culpability in each case. Of course that isn’t going to happen, we all know that, and we all know why- money, and secret influence in the corridors of power.
By the way, did Mr Surrender-No speak out on Spartans behalf when they were kicked out of the Scottish Cup? Did any of those sickening sycophants who pass for journalists in this afflicted country raise as much as a squeak? No? I thought not. So then, I can conclude that in their view a severe punishment for administrative errors must be all right ? Oh no, wait a minute, I forgot, different standards apply to the chosen “peepul”.
Justice? Should I laugh or just throw up? This group of journalists (presstitutes sums it up for me) and ex RFC blazers are rotten to the core. The only meaning they can give the word “right” is whatever happens to suit them at the time. As for truth, it is a complete stranger to them, in fact I think the very concept of truth and honesty is genuinely beyond them.
Anyone hoping to see justice prevail in this case is in for a very severe disappointment. I can’t wait for the SFA statement. They will have a cunning plan, I predict, to get themselves and RFC off the hook as painlessly as possible. Or maybe another attempt to shoehorn Sevco into the top flight “for the good of the game” via a reconstruction with only one purpose behind it. Maybe one league of 40 teams? I wouldn’t put anything past this lot.
How I grieve for my country. Dragged down by a gang of liars and crooks, held to ransom by a violent mob, every component of the establishment infiltrated and corrupted. Without the internet, we would have known nothing, RFC would be in the SPL, Deals would have been done, backs slapped, handshakes galore, and succulent lamb at every turn. That shows us the true strength of our Scottish institutions. We can rely on them for nothing. Or maybe I’ll be proved wrong over the coming weeks? I hope so, but I very much doubt it.
And so it goes on.
Old Co, New Co, Double contracts, side letters,on and on and on.
Tell you what I am ashamed of, I am ashamed that my club, or representatives of my club ran Rangers so recklessly that we went into administration leaving thousands of unpaid bills.
I am ashamed that £millions of Tax and national insurance deducted from the players wages andt were not paid to the revenue.That is Inexcusable.
EBT’s, that for me is a sticking point. The scheme was legal at the time, used by companies, Football clubs, and Murray’s top executives, I believe. He brought them to Rangers.
It looks like it has been the way Rangers have administered it that is the problem.
In my view shoddy administration of EBT’s is a long way from the charge of cheating. If you are saying the Rangers directors thought here is a great way of paying players under the radar of the authorities, and by their actions colluding to cheat. I just do not buy it.
As for stripping titles for shoddy administration for the players receiving side letters or double contracts, it is taking a sledge hammer to crack a nut. The furore is way over the top driven by vested interests. That is truly what I believe.
Meanwhile what we are left with is Scottish football in a dire state, riven by strife and disagreement and heading for the rocks.
Funds being used to High Court judges, legal counsels, countless lawyers rather than funding initiatives to improve Scottish Football in the years ahead. The Governing bodies focus has been skewed.
It is my view that Rangers , my club, has been punished enough , enough is enough, some call it consequences I call them very severe, so severe that it will take at least 10 years to recover from what has already put in place.
It is time to move on.
Jmaclure it certainly is not time to move on.The real action on your old club has just begun.In any case you are a fan of anew club now,Why should you be bothered about the ‘history’ of your old club?
Jmaclure @10.27
In what way have your team been punished enough,I can’t think of any punishments they have suffered yet.
jmaclure says:
September 25, 2012 at 10:27
If you are saying the Rangers directors thought here is a great way of paying players under the radar of the authorities, and by their actions colluding to cheat. I just do not buy it.
=========
Yes, I am saying that, because to me (and, I guess, to most other people to) it is blindingly obvious. So why don’t you buy it? Why else use EBTs? Got a theory? I’d love to hear it.
It is my view that Rangers , my club, has been punished enough , enough is enough, some call it consequences I call them very severe, so severe that it will take at least 10 years to recover from what has already put in place.
It is time to move on.
Sorry Mr McClure, but your club should’nt have been parachuted into the third division in the first place if rules were even considered above all else. An application along with the other clubs is what the rules stipulate so count yourselves lucky that ‘The Rangers’ are even being allowed to play this season.
Administrative Errors
Anyone who has had to deal with form filling and the like will clearly recognise the situation where procudures have been carried out for years using ‘custom and practice’.
If a change of procedure is required, be that internal to the organization, external through dictats from governing authorities & regulatory bodies or changes to the law, but the old practice is continued then one can argue that the ‘change’ has been missed.
This is understandable, however it is normal practice to rectify matters when it becomes known to those responsible for managing said procedure.
Therefore you can reasonably argue the first time is an ‘administrative error’.
However if it happens a second time then questions have to be asked.
Is it incompetence an misunderstanding or misinterpetation of the rules or a deliberate strategy to avoid doing things as per the rules?
If the latter what are the reasons behind this ‘non-comformance’?
If it happens a third time then something is seriously amiss.
I have been banging on about what the SPL/SFA rules have been over the years as I could only find details of the FIFA minimum requirements for player registrations in 2008.
However it appears that Lord Nimmo Smith has a good grasp of what was required by the SPL/SFA by clearly idenfitying three distinct timescales where changes were made to the rules.
Those being what he defines as three ‘chapters’
23 Nov 2000 to 21 May 2002
22 May 2002 to 22 May 2005
23 May 2005 to 3 May 2011
Therefore one could be forgiving of an Administrative error in Chapter 1, but not so with Chapter 2 and definetly not by Chapter 3, especially when you add in the aforementioed Fifa guidance in 2008.
Of course we know from the ‘shredding incident’ that in 2003 Chief Executive Martin Bain and then Chairman John McClelland were well aware of the pitfalls associated with EBT payments appearing to be contractural . At the same time Campbell Ogilvie was a director of the club and from June 2003 held the post of Treasurer (now Second Vice President) of the SFA.
In Ogilvie’s own words
“I ceased being company secretary in 2002 and became general secretary responsible for football strategy, in effect becoming the main point of contact between the club and the respective league and governing bodies.”
Therefore the Chief Executive and Chairman knew the situation with regard to EBT’s but at the same time the General Secretary who is supposed to be the main contact with the footballing authorities apparently at no time sought a review to see if his club is operating within the rules laid down by those organisations and one which he is Vice President.
Administrative error you say….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoZ7JXkv6_o
What’s the difference between right and write …….Scottish football reporters.
AJ states
“I am, however, more wary as to the directives that have been provided to them by the SPL which in itself is constituted by competitors of the Club who have a vested interest in the outcome of the proceedings”
I would respectfully point out to you Mr Johnstone that not one of your competitors have made any statement on the matter. Not one has called for the return of titles, not ones has asked for awarding of Cups, not one has complained about lost revenues. What they have done is remain silent and shown you what humility and respect is by allowing an Independent Panel to review on the matter.
exiledcelt says:
September 25, 2012 at 05:48
A lot of what the Oldco side and the statement from AJ reminds me so much of occassions where I have had to interview staff regarding the misappropriation of company funds. It used to amaze me where money has been taken from the till and even on occassion’s put back staff never regarded it as stealing, they would all to a man say “I was always going to pay it back”, They always viewed it as A SORT OF UNOTHORISED LOAN and could never grasp the extent of their wrong doing. It was like talking to a brick wall or Sevconian at times trying to get these people to understand that what they did was not company procedure and would result in their possible dismissal.
Oddly enough after reading AJ’s statemnt it made me think of one really ironic case where I was called into investigate some odd accountancy work at another branch. It involved a very attractive young lady who it was alledged had taken £500 cash from the till using some not very clever accounting and then put this amount back a week later when her salary had been paid. She didn’t know me, but knew that I was one of the older and more exprienced managers. In my initial chat with her I established (very subtly) that she was out most nights of the week socialising and within this group there were a number of young Rangers players and one in particular who I could name but shant, but lets say he was an arse that got done for drink driving later in his short career. What I soon deduced from my discussion with her was that she was part of a social circle where most in the group had plenty cash to throw around and did. She unfortunately did not have the kind of salary to afford designer clothes and the lifestyle she was leading and obviously became short of cash at the end of each month. Now no matter how many times I said to her ” would you agree that you took £500 from a (a family member) file and then replaced it a few days later” she could not see the significance of it, ” I paid it back” was always the reply. Where would the SPL be today if each of the clubs had decided to spend the money they didn’t have to keep up with Oldco?
Jmaclure @ 10.27
Tell me you are joking, you have to be
We expel clubs from competitions for failing to sign and date forms properly, yet you believe that deliberately failing to disclose payments to players over a period of 10 years should merit no punishment
Make no mistake, as will in all probability be shown, this was a concerted and deliberate strategy employed by those who ran RFC(IA) to avoid PAYE and NI for the benefit of players, managers and the club
This was no minor administrative or procedural error
It is inconceivable, that those who benefited from the EBT scam, were not aware that it was more than a little bit dodgy
What would you think if your employer told you that part of your salary would have to come from a discretionary loan from a trustee, that yo would have to apply for with no certainty that it would be paid
As for punishments, there have only been two, both unrelated to tax evasion
If RFC(IA) or Sevco walk away from this with no more than a reprimand, then Scottish football will never see another penny of my hard earned and limited cash, on which I have paid all of my taxes
jmaclure.
Again you ignore the bain email asking for the shredding of the letter stipulating his ebt payment. The same as he had to do with the players.
This was to hide evidence of extra payments to players, thus deliberately breaking tax and football rules.
Rfc were completely aware that they were breaking tax rules and had to break football rules to cover it up.
Deliberate tax evasion.
Deliberate football cheating.
For over a decade.
Jail time and expulsion are the appropriate punishments opposed to the tax claw back and stripping of honours as consequencies.
Scottish football suffered for ten years due to this mismanagement.
If it has to suffer for ten more due to the recriminations, then thats just another cause and effect of one clubs actions.
Lets not move on until we are sure we have cleaned out the stables.
neepheid says:
September 25, 2012 at 10:35
Yes, I am saying that, because to me (and, I guess, to most other people to) it is blindingly obvious. So why don’t you buy it? Why else use EBTs? Got a theory? I’d love to hear it.
………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………
David Murray, who had used the scheme at MIH, introduced at Rangers as a way of rewarding players and attracting other players. The same scheme that has been used in thousands of companies. Why would anybody question that at that time, seriously, or even remotely think it was cheating?
……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..
previouslyknownassnowdog says:
September 25, 2012 at 10:35
The ‘its only consequences’ argument.
Well the ‘its only consequences’ has Rangers in the Third Divisionr of Scottish Football, umpteen fines,top players left, transfer embargo, reputation in tatters, a squad that is mediocre and an uncertain future.
It may not be enough for you but for most people I expect it is severe enough.
Severe enough to say, lets get on with the football now, for god’s sake.
jmaclure says:
September 25, 2012 at 10:27
—————————————–
How many times do the fans of RFC need to be told. If you hadn’t implemented this scheme you would never have been able to field the team(s) you did during the period in question. Surely you can understand this. The first league title won during this period allowed RFC access to funds (via the CL) that were, on the face of it, illegally gained. That then started a chain of events culminating in where we are today. It’s not illegal for a drug dealer to buy a car but that car can be taken away if it is found out that the money used came from the proceeds of crime. Rangers ability to buy certain players effectively came from an illegal source. If that’s not cheating then it bears a helluva close resemblance to to it.
It could be argued that you might have won trophies with a lesser quality team but that is purely hypothetical at this point. What we have is a situation where, by means that have been deemed (or soon will be) illegal, and a deliberate with-holding of information from the SFA Rangers are in clear breech of the rules of both law and sport. The breeching of the rules of law has effectively brought about the liquidation of the club but the breaking of the rules of the SFA are a separate issue and need to be not only dealt with but seen to be dealt with. Anything other than this will be seen as a cover-up.
jmaclure says:
September 25, 2012 at 10:27
Your premise that RFC(IL) did not gain a foorballing advantage by their use of EBT’s was discussed in great depth a few months back on RTC.
The fact that RFC (IL) could pay players the gross amount ie 20k a week without them needing to deducte tax at 40% gave RFC(IL) an unfair advantage when it came to attracting ‘better’ players.
Any other team who offered the same player 20k a week would have had to deducte tax (40%) from the 20k which would mean a take nome, or net pay, of nearer 12k a week, a huge difference and one that, IMO, would have made the difference between signing a big name player or losing him. Other team could not compete with the wages on offer from RFC(IL).
Its this aspect of the EBT saga that I feel contributed to the unfair advantage that RFC(IL) had during the naughties and IMO was indeed a tactic by the board to keep these payments under the radar.
As I say, this has all been discussed over in RTC in far more detail that I have outlined above.
jmaclure says:
September 25, 2012 at 10:27
1 20 Rate This
EBT’s, that for me is a sticking point. The scheme was legal at the time, used by companies, Football clubs, and Murray’s top executives, I believe. He brought them to Rangers.
It looks like it has been the way Rangers have administered it that is the problem.
In my view shoddy administration of EBT’s is a long way from the charge of cheating. If you are saying the Rangers directors thought here is a great way of paying players under the radar of the authorities, and by their actions colluding to cheat. I just do not buy it.
——————–
It depends on who and what you choose to believe. Have you ever looked at the original RTC blog? These were tweeted by http://twitter.com/rangerstaxcase today as a reminder (among others):
“Reminder time: RFC did not declare most payments through EBTs to SFA/SPL. They were required to declare all payments.
9:51am – 25 Sep 12”
“Reminder time: RFC told HMRC that these payments were non-contractual loans and that there were no side letters or obligations to pay.
9:52am – 25 Sep 12”
“Reminder time: but RFC had actually given many players side letters and comfort letters saying that loans did not need to be repaid.
9:53am – 25 Sep 12”
“Reminder time: RFC were involved in an elaborate deception over many years- and people think that their directors will tell the truth now?
9:55am – 25 Sep 12”
Just short summaries of what was in the blogs. To be honest, by blowing the whistle he’s been doing RFC fans a service, but no one wanted to know. Types like Dingwall dimissed it as ‘the work of the Church of Rome’ 🙂
jocky are you not conflating the application of any football sanctions with any legal sanctions BDO or others might seek?
Rangers Football Club (whatever that means) could or might be stripped of trophies and/or receive other footballing penalties.
BDO, the Police, Prosecutors and/or Civil cases might seek to take actions against Rangers Football Club PLC (In Administration) or the previous Directors of said company if they perceive any wrong-doings that might be subject to criminal or civil claims against company and/or it’s directors.
jmaclure says:
September 25, 2012 at 10:27
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As SDM should have said “For every five pounds Celtic spend we and HMRC will spend ten.”
jmaclure says:
September 25, 2012 at 10:54
Well the ‘its only consequences’ has Rangers in the Third Divisionr of Scottish Football, umpteen fines,top players left, transfer embargo, reputation in tatters, a squad that is mediocre and an uncertain future.
It may not be enough for you but for most people I expect it is severe enough.
Severe enough to say, lets get on with the football now, for god’s sake.
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“Umpteen fines”!
There you go with that Rangers in Administration Accounting, again… 🙂
rab says at 10:52:
RFC were completely aware that they were breaking tax rules and had to break football rules to cover it up.
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That is the whole story in a sentence. A brilliant summing-up.
jmaclure says:
September 25, 2012 at 10:27
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Take one example:
Billy Dodds finally admitted to being paid through an EBT.This was a severence pay,non-contractual,we are led to believe.Fair Enough.
Problem is,Dodds claims that Murray approached him personally and asked him to accept this payment NET of paye/nic through an EBT.
1.EBTs are supposed to be administered by independent trustees.Why did Murray approach Dodds and not the trustees.
2.if the payment was NET of paye/nic then why bother with an EBT.Why not just pay it through the normal channels.
3.Why did Dodds or his advisers agree to this.They had nothing to gain.
No one is questioning that Dodds paye/nic was not deducted from his final payment.What we can ask,using the evidence supplied by Billy Dodds himself is:
A.Did proof of this deduction appear on his final wage slip.
B.If so,was the cash,circa £140k actually paid to HMRC.
C.If there was nothing to gain,why did Murray just not pay through Dodds wages?.
Rangers (oldco & newco) and past and present Directors cannot forever conceal what they did nor escape legal or footballing accountability for their actions no matter how much they bleat, threaten or abuse their relationships withs the MSM to promote their propaganda. They have lost the arguments, legal and moral, it’s now only a question of when not if.
jmaclure says:
September 25, 2012 at 10:27
I refer you to my post at 10:42
We are clearly on different sides of the ‘Administration’ fence.
Not one person here on on the previous RTC site disputes that EBT’s were legal if operated in the correct manner.
The issues are simple.
For tax purposes did Rangers adminster the EBT scheme correctly?
For footballing purposes did Rangers declare all payments (including the EBT if necessary) as required in the rules?
If the answer is no to one or both questions then the follow up is:-
Was there a genuine misundersanding /misinterpretation of the rules or was there a deliberate attempt to conceal what were effectively contractural payments from the authorities?
The FTTT provides a formal procedure to investigate the matter in terms of the tax sitiation
The SPL commission provides a formal procedure to investigate the matter in terms of footballing rules.
In both of these forums Rangers have the opportunity to put forward their case and back up their arguments with all the financial and legal expertise that was no doubt available to them when they set up the EBT scheme.
Given the seriousness of the situation are you saying that tax & footballing authorities along with fans of Scottish Football, including Rangers fans, have to once again sit back meekly and simply take as gospel the ramblings in the press of a group men who have ruined one of our biggest club.
This is not the time to draw a line under the affair and move on.
It is the time for searching out the truth and to place down a marker that says to the whole of Scottish Football that there is no room for maladministration deliberate or otherwise. And if it is deliberate then all parties should know there will be serious consequences to ensure anyone tempted to do something similar in the future will be severly punished.
Like any non-conformance a review of procedures relating to player payments and registrations at club SFL/SPL/SFA is required.
Only then will we be able to move the game forward.
From Rangers Rumours.Make of it what you will.
25 Sep 2012 08:45:51
BDO have not liquidated oldco becuase in bizarre turn of events HMRC will find no case to answer and Green will sell back shares to Oldco -history will be maintained and SPL membership will be applied for just after xmas – expect Gers to be in SPL next years
jmaclure says:
September 25, 2012 at 10:54
David Murray, who had used the scheme at MIH, introduced at Rangers as a way of rewarding players and attracting other players. The same scheme that has been used in thousands of companies. Why would anybody question that at that time, seriously, or even remotely think it was cheating?
====================
Because by avoiding tax on the EBT element of players’ pay, you are in a position to offer them more net than a similar club which does not use EBTs. That’s why it “attracts players”. You therefore have an unfair advantage in the transfer market. et’s say that instead of using EBTs, you paid the players half their wages tax free in tenners stuffed in a brown envelope every friday. Would you consider that to be cheating? I can’t explain it more clearly than that, but I guess you just don’t want to see it.
I wouldn’t get my hopes up on the SFA statement coming up. It’ll probably be another fudge where they try and pass the buck or muddy the waters.
jmaclure says:
September 25, 2012 at 10:54
“… reputation in tatters, a squad that is mediocre and an uncertain future.”
Is that RFC or the national team you’re referring to with the above? 🙂
Seriously though, they are severe consequences, and again I’d say some of them could have been avoided if the information in the RTC’s blogs had been taken seriously by the media and RFC fans. I think a lot of neutral supporters had genuine sympathy – until the threats and intimidation from RFC icons began, followed by the clumsy attempts to shoehorn Green’s new company into the SPL and Div 1.
People just don’t like insult following injury.
The club in its present form needs a complete re-boot, for a whole host of reasons, many of them to do with non-football issues and attitudes. A death and rebirth, via a couple of years out, might not be such a bad thing. It probably won’t happen, but it would be for the best.
Johnboy5088
Cheers.
Another sentence puts the whole episode into perspective.
Bain, McClelland, Ogilvie and Smith held high office in the organisations charged with overseeing rule compliance.
Its crystal clear what was going on.
hi everyone..dont post much but an avid reader of the blog the the great rtc blog…i was wondering if any of our knowledgable posters here want to have an educated guess at what lord nimmo will impose on the old/new rangers if found guilty of the 3 charges regarding the ebt scandal ?….i personally cant see anything other than a suspension from the scottish league for a period of time…this , of course , would be a disaster for the new team and charles green’s money raising plans…
could we end up with the scenario of green going to the courts to argue that new rangers are indeed a brand new team with no link whatsoever to the old rangers to try and save them ?…what a bizarre sight this would be …and how would that go down with the rangers support ?…
sir david murray…craigy whyte and that group of puppet directors really have totally destroyed this club and the inward looking unquestioning rangers fans have allowed this all to happen.
torrejohnbhoy says:
September 25, 2012 at 11:39
From Rangers Rumours.Make of it what you will.
25 Sep 2012 08:45:51
BDO have not liquidated oldco becuase in bizarre turn of events HMRC will find no case to answer and Green will sell back shares to Oldco -history will be maintained and SPL membership will be applied for just after xmas – expect Gers to be in SPL next years
======================================================
Makes no sense johnbhoy,BDO are not even in yet,and HMRC will Definately find against Rangers (IA).and how exactly will they get re-admission to the SPL,without re-construction there will be no place for them,and I dont think that’s going to happen anytime soon.Smacks of desperation.
justiceintegrity says:
September 25, 2012 at 09:56
9 0 i Rate This
Poor Raman from STV. Thats how the Rangers fans deal with people in the Media.
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And a spokesman for the SEVCO support….clarified the situation by blaming/suggesting it was probably Chelsea fans who support The Rangers?
Unbelievable…technically is wasn’t really The Rangers fans but Chelsea who also support The Rangers?
I guess they will be
For those who think this was an administrative error over the EBT, two things make it clear it is not:
Why the instructions to shred information if it was simply an error?
Why did RFC tell HMRC that no side letters existed?
Administration errors clearly not.
Tic 6709 says:
September 25, 2012 at 12:03
torrejohnbhoy says:
September 25, 2012 at 11:39
From Rangers Rumours.Make of it what you will.
25 Sep 2012 08:45:51
BDO have not liquidated oldco becuase in bizarre turn of events HMRC will find no case to answer and Green will sell back shares to Oldco -history will be maintained and SPL membership will be applied for just after xmas – expect Gers to be in SPL next years
======================================================
Makes no sense johnbhoy,BDO are not even in yet,and HMRC will Definately find against Rangers (IA).and how exactly will they get re-admission to the SPL,without re-construction there will be no place for them,and I dont think that’s going to happen anytime soon.Smacks of desperation.
=======================================================================
I don’t think it’s desperation.Even after all that’s happened and could still happen.The Crown Office,BDO,The Polis,FTT,Dual Contracts etc,the mindset is such that,with a few exceptions,there is still the “WATP” mentality.
When CG is heading for warmer clmes with their cash,as long as he’s feeding them what they want,they’ll believe him.
It wouldn’t surprise me if those trips to Switzerland to meet UEFA,The ECA etc included a transfer of cash into one of those Swiss Bank Accounts we’re always hearing about.Tell the RFC fans,in general,that everything is rosy,they’ll believe it.
Also it’s highly doubtful that every single last EBT (of which there were many!) operated by RFC (RIP) are all simple “administrative errors”. After all, they had the “greatest football administrator in the world EVER” in Campbell Ogilvie and they never tired of telling us that through various puff pieces in the MSM.
Basically their defence is now “we’re stupid”; and we all know ignorance of the law is not an excuse.
Nice to see that a sense of humour hasn’t been lost (by all) on the ‘bannergate’ story.
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/soccer-dirty-tackle/celtic-fans-demand-justice-zombies-being-charged-banner-051943747–sow.html
torrejohnbhoy @ 11:39
From Rangers Rumours.Make of it what you will.
25 Sep 2012 08:45:51
BDO have not liquidated oldco becuase in bizarre turn of events HMRC will find no case to answer and Green will sell back shares to Oldco -history will be maintained and SPL membership will be applied for just after xmas – expect Gers to be in SPL next years
========================================================================
One small problem for the genius who came up with this
Where is Green, or RFC(IA) getting the money to pay the debts outwith the FTT, or do they think these will just magically disappear
They really aren’t the brightest
What kind of country is it?
New Alex Thompson blog just out. A good read
http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/rulebooks-apply-rangers/2743
neepheid says:
September 25, 2012 at 11:40
jmaclure says:
September 25, 2012 at 10:54
David Murray, who had used the scheme at MIH, introduced at Rangers as a way of rewarding players and attracting other players. The same scheme that has been used in thousands of companies. Why would anybody question that at that time, seriously, or even remotely think it was cheating?
====================
Because by avoiding tax on the EBT element of players’ pay, you are in a position to offer them more net than a similar club which does not use EBTs. That’s why it “attracts players”. You therefore have an unfair advantage in the transfer market. et’s say that instead of using EBTs, you paid the players half their wages tax free in tenners stuffed in a brown envelope every friday. Would you consider that to be cheating? I can’t explain it more clearly than that, but I guess you just don’t want to see it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
There is no issue with having an unfair advantage..Man Utd v Accrington Stanley is unfair based on the income both generate to compete with…the problem is any club that creates a mechanism which they use in such a way that avoids the rules that all other clubs adhered to, that in doing so provides them with a financial advantage they would otherise not have had…
Financial doping is what it is.
torrejohnbhoy @ 11:39
From Rangers Rumours.Make of it what you will.
25 Sep 2012 08:45:51
BDO have not liquidated oldco becuase in bizarre turn of events HMRC will find no case to answer and Green will sell back shares to Oldco -history will be maintained and SPL membership will be applied for just after xmas – expect Gers to be in SPL next years
========================================================================
Don’t worry Steiners counter-attack will bring the Soviets under-control and push them back beyond the Oder………………………………..oh wait a minute that was all bollox as well, Sorry Mein Fuhrer. 🙂
Danish
That banner is at the centre of a row on the Scotsman’s blog. Some are saying that it is disgraceful because it is referencing justice for the Liverpool 96.
Maybe the Daily Record will publish it and tell the world that there is a little scouser icon on it which is invisible to the naked eye.
Alex Thomson’s new blog says it all.It is a grave and justifiable indictment of our footballing administrators and frankly,to a lesser extent ,of our culture.
As AT so rightly points out ,there are rules and they should be applied.If Only Alex, if only.Our footballing world would have been a better place.Spartans in the third division and Sevco in the wilderness,applying for the right to play and many of their ridiculous attitudes with no arena in which to give our country further embarrassment.
Fair play to jmaclure 10.27 for posting what he (and I assume many Gers fans) believe. It is a defence of sorts of RFC(IA/PL) actions.
It is however light on evidence and runs in contradiction to the HMRC assessment of 2008 for unpaid tax.
In 2008 HMRC sent a bill to Ibrox for unpaid tax on what it had determined were contractual payments made to staff members via EBTs. Rangers appeal against the bill is the FTT due to report shortly, maybe.
I don’t think it credible that HMRC would have undertaken the actions it has since 2008 if this was just some shoddy paperwork.
If it was shoddy paperwork Rangers could have made full disclosure of it, however if anything Rangers were obstructive in letting anyone look at it.
So I have a question for jmaclure and any other Rangers fans reading.
If the FTT report finds Rangers liable for the tax assessment because payments made to EBTs were contractual, will you stand with the rest of us and acknowledge that Rangers have cheated Scottish football by gain unfair advantage through not paying tax as required by law?
Can we just clear a few things up again.
Using EBTs is perfectly legal. Using them for contractual payments is not.
Using EBTs knowing they are contractual payments is not an administrative error, it is cheating.
There is plenty evidence that the payments to players were contractual and were agreed in advance. In fact there is evidence that the loans from the sub-trust were even agreed in advance, which would also make them fail, it is up to the trustee to agree the loans, for the employer to do it is totally against the purpose of an EBT.
The EBTs failed, not because of administrative errors but because of pre-meditated lying and cheating.
The failure to declare the payments properly to the SPL is a direct result of this. They could not lie for the purposes of the EBT, whilst at the same time provide the details to the SPL, that would make no sense. Rangers gambled they would get away with it and they failed.
We are not awaiting HMRC to rule on anything, they have already done that. They say that tax, interest and penalties are due. They have raised the bills for them and it is a legal enforceable debt. Enforcement of the debt was put on hold because of the appeal. We are awaiting the results of that appeal.
How it rules is largely irrelevant for the purposes of the SPL investigation. The question is not whether tax is due or not. It is whether payments to the players were declared properly or not.
Rangers did not provide loans to players. They made payments to them, into a sub-trust of which the player was the beneficiary. It is the trustees of that trust which would agree any loans. The players could have taken that money, not as a loan but as a payment. Tax would have been due at that point. That however would have defeated the purpose
After all this time people are still trying to paint these things in an advantageous and innocent light. It simply isn’t true. Rangers deliberatley lied to the tax man and the SPL. They did this to benefit financially and they did just that. For years they built their team on those lies and on the money it saved them.
Rangers are guilty of cheating the country of the taxes they owed and cheating Scottish football for the unfair financial advantage they gained. They fact that people are still lying about it and trying to just make it go away, on the basis that it was simple errors or that they have been punished enough is shameful.
There has been no punishment for the tax fraud, there has been no punishment for fielding inelligible players. The transfer embargo is due to bringing the game into disrepute for an entirely different £14m tax they stole from the country they constantly sing about. They are in the third division because they are a new club. They lost players because they could not afford their wages. They lost points because they went into adminisration.
If anything Rangers, old and new, have been treated very favourably in all of this. Their bleating and paranoia is really getting tiresome but we shall carry on.
jackglasgow says:
September 25, 2012 at 10:58
jmaclure says:
September 25, 2012 at 10:27
Your premise that RFC(IL) did not gain a foorballing advantage by their use of EBT’s was discussed in great depth a few months back on RTC.
The fact that RFC (IL) could pay players the gross amount ie 20k a week without them needing to deducte tax at 40% gave RFC(IL) an unfair advantage when it came to attracting ‘better’ players.
Any other team who offered the same player 20k a week would have had to deducte tax (40%) from the 20k which would mean a take nome, or net pay, of nearer 12k a week, a huge difference and one that, IMO, would have made the difference between signing a big name player or losing him. Other team could not compete with the wages on offer from RFC(IL).
Its this aspect of the EBT saga that I feel contributed to the unfair advantage that RFC(IL) had during the naughties and IMO was indeed a tactic by the board to keep these payments under the radar.
As I say, this has all been discussed over in RTC in far more detail that I have outlined above.
=================================
Notwithstanding the greater salary the player gets the benefits to RFC were even greater. To achieve a take home pay of £20k per week would cost a law abiding company somewhere in the region of £40k per week.
£40k – tax @ 40% and Ni @ say 10% = £20k. Just rough figures but you get where I’m coming from.