Make our Mind Up Time


Make our Mind Up Time

I have been receiving quite a bit of  unflattering mail about the “agenda” being pursued on this blog. Depending on the correspondent, that is defined as  either denying people their civil right to gloat, hiding the “truth” that people of the RC faith are welcomed and encouraged to come to Ibrox, or indulging in Chamberlain-style appeasement with the banning of the “H” word and other incontrovertible rights-to-insult.

The objection to moderation of any sort appears to be at the root of these diatribes. Our position here in terms of moderation is clear. There is no “agenda” other than a desire not to be chasing up posts containing the rantings and ravings of partisan types who “demand” their right to be heard no matter how objectionable it might be to those hear it. We are not here to service a conduit for conspiracy theories based in Masonic Lodges or the Vatican. There are plenty of places where people can indulge in that kind of stuff, but the moderators here are just not interested. The administration of the site takes around four hours per day. That’s a long time trawling through posts which often set out deliberately to insult, abuse or otherwise cause offence – mildly or otherwise.

Our view is that the blog will only have cross-club support if we stick to what we can substantiate by fact or reasonably infer from the way things proceed. Further, we feel that if we are to gain credibility as an alternative source of news and comment to the MSM, that we need to cut down on the fansite type comments. There is no dignity (a word often used here) in calling the Rangers manager or their fans names. We need to maintain higher standards of impartiality than football fansites, because we know that a united fan base can actually make a difference as RTC did when the SPL chairmen were gearing up for a parachute for the new Rangers. OT discussions are fine, and often amusing, but they shouldn’t become the main reason to come here.

The requirement to have a WordPress account before posting here is not in any way draconian. It is designed to make people accountable for what they post whilst still maintaining anonymity, and therefore being exempt from moderation. Those who don’t like it are not being compelled to carry out any instruction – they only need go to a place where they don’t feel so constrained.

If the main issue of this blog becomes how the blog is being administered – or how the moderation policy is affecting the human rights of posters, we may as well just pack up now.

There have never been any objections to the suggested posting rules on here. We assume that people who post are reasonably intelligent. Therefore it seems fair to assume that those who have ignored the suggested posting rules did so deliberately. If that doesn’t happen, moderation is just not required.

If what we are trying to do fails because of our posting framework, then we will be blamed. We are certain though, that we can have no credibility if we indulge ourselves in conspiracy theories and constant references to anachronistic organisations, the Scottish school system, and the leanings of referees.

There is real corruption in Scottish football. It is based not on religious rivalries but on greed and acquisitiveness. The only thing that matters is that we identify that corruption and help put an end to it.

Our job is to ask questions and not jump to our own conclusions about the answers. That will divide us as surely as the realisation of the depth of the corruption united us. To be totally united as fans, we need to have more Rangers fans on here. Therefore we need to create an atmosphere that they can be comfortable with. Is that the case right now? The anger for RFC’s mismanagement and abuse of the game in Scotland is real, but we need to look forward if we are truly committed to ensuring that what happened to Rangers can’t happen again.

We’re not gonna throw the toys out of the pram here. If anyone else would like to run the blog under those circumstances of zero moderation, we will be happy to hand over the domain. There is no “agenda” – we will be happy to hand the work over to others.

The initial posting which proposed the change to WordPress logins received over 130 TUs and only three TDs. Subsequently the post advising of the changes got around 100 TUs and 100 TDs. It seems that minds are not entirely made up.

To get some closure on this once and for all, we have added a poll below to end on Saturday at 1700 where you can decide whether you want to go along with our original plan in terms of login and moderation. We obviously recommend that you vote “Yes”

About the author

Trisidium administrator

Trisidium is a Dunblane businessman with a keen interest in Scottish Football. He is a Celtic fan, although the demands of modern-day parenting have seen him less at games and more as a taxi service for his kids.

2,133 Comments so far

ikiPosted on11:28 pm - Sep 19, 2012

Livia Burlando says:
September 19, 2012 at 16:44
why is he setting out to be as obnoxious and infuriating as possible to absolutely everyone?
Some people just cannot stop themselves from showing their true colours.

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AgrajagPosted on11:35 pm - Sep 19, 2012

I have no issue whatsoever with having a log-in in order to post here.

Every forum I use requires me to be a member. I have provided details, all nonsense, joined the forum and post there.

I realise this is technically a blog, but for all practical purposes it is a forum and used as one by most people.

In short, I have no issue with having to register with Word Press in order to log in here.

In fact I think I have already done it, if not I’ll try and work it out as and when I can’t get in.

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BrendaPosted on11:37 pm - Sep 19, 2012


Cheers think I’ve got it now 🙂 bit of a failure when it comes to ‘new’ things lol

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kilbowiekeltPosted on11:37 pm - Sep 19, 2012

Hard to see how anybody could feel constrained by the guidelines that our host is suggesting.
He appears to be asking for nothing more than mutual respect.
Posting things which we know to be ‘divisive’ is obviously not going to create a forum where we get the thinking & feelings of supporters of EVERY club in the country,.. even if these firmly held beliefs are important to ourselves. These issues can be freely discussed on the fan blogs of our own clubs.
This site’s ethos is solidarity amongst followers of EVERY Scottish team, with a view to challenging the obvious wrongdoing which has damaged our game for so long.
It is not a place to score points off one another.

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BrendaPosted on11:42 pm - Sep 19, 2012

I think mr guidi could join dawwell ……….?? Where is he ?? After broadcasting on SSB his many ‘facts’ about all things sevco 🙂

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Lord WobblyPosted on11:46 pm - Sep 19, 2012

kilbowiekelt says:
September 19, 2012 at 23:37
0 0 Rate This
It is not a place to score points off one another.
That is unrealistic. And there is lots of fun to be had with point scoring. The trick is to keep it within acceptable boundaries.

By here, I’m on a roll tonight! Must be the vino 😀

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61patrickPosted on11:47 pm - Sep 19, 2012

” and a hope it will kick off” is what i hear

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rabPosted on11:48 pm - Sep 19, 2012

oldrab on September 19, 2012 at 23:06
 2 0 Rate This
the draft 5 way agreement seems to be printed in tomorrows daily record


Just clearing up that oldrab isnt a new name for rab, im really rab and i think oldrab is a rab who’s old and therefore a new rab, called oldrab. I am a kinda old rab but i suppose thats relative to all your ages. I could be even be older than oldrab.

Just to avoid confusion like. 😀

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broadswordcallingdannybhoyPosted on12:01 am - Sep 20, 2012

I’ve been following TSFM since it was born and last nights gloating did nothing to entice Rangers fans.

Whilst the shambles of the summer is clearly the hottest topic in town, it’s not the only problem with Scottish Football. Without a consensus amongst all fans on whatever topic is debated, I fear that TSFM will wither and die. This would be a waste of a golden opportunity.

I’m a huge Celtic fan (in passion but not stature), I have no problem referring to the newco as Rangers, call it an olive branch if you like, and I think gestures like this are perhaps what’s needed to make this place a little more bear friendly.

I think a TSFM forum would also see more bluenoses coming to dip their toe in the water.

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BrendaPosted on12:01 am - Sep 20, 2012


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ikiPosted on12:02 am - Sep 20, 2012

Re. Guidi’s remarks.
I have listened to 2 versions.
In one he says ‘hope’ and in the other he does not.
One of them is not a true record of what he said.
Someone has contacted SSB and I look forward to the response.

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Lord WobblyPosted on12:02 am - Sep 20, 2012

rab says:
September 19, 2012 at 23:48
0 0 Rate This
oldrab on September 19, 2012 at 23:06
2 0 Rate This
the draft 5 way agreement seems to be printed in tomorrows
daily record
Just clearing up that oldrab isnt a new name for rab, im really rab and i think oldrab is a rab who’s old and therefore a new rab, called oldrab. I am a kinda old rab but i suppose thats relative to all your ages. I could be even be older than oldrab.
Just to avoid confusion like.
It could be worse. You could be an Arab! 😀 *

* this is an example of point scoring, hopefully within acceptable comedic boundaries. It is in no way a slight on our middle eastern friends. #

# Jerry Sadowitz and Frankie Boyle never had this trouble 😉

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rabPosted on12:03 am - Sep 20, 2012

If you look closely, maybe the irrepressible Hugh McEwan is still around.

Could be wrong.

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nickmcguinnessPosted on12:07 am - Sep 20, 2012

Hello again. This is Johnboy (although I first posted on RTC as JohnBhoy).
But both names were unavailable on WordPress, so I’ve opted for my old user name plus a Sevco-related appendage.
Keep up the good work, lads and lasses.

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rabPosted on12:11 am - Sep 20, 2012

Lord Wobbly.

Lol, or even a Rabbi, Jackie Mason didn’t have any problems either. Oi yoi yoi.

(Will Mason beat the mods) 😀

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justiceintegrityPosted on12:15 am - Sep 20, 2012

The future determination of TSFM can only be determined once the outcome of both the BTC and dual contracts is finalised and punishments meted out if any. At that stage and only at that stage will this blog find out its own path going forward. Alot of contributors have come over from RTC and i am one of them.

On the subject of registration to TSFM, i have no problem. I however disagree about the imposed restrictions on discussion especially if an injustice is done in a football sense on issues such as racism, bigotry or sectarianism. If contributors from all clubs can discuss issues like this in an open forum then our society will surely improve. By continuing to stifle talk about what is currently happening in our footballing society will make things worse and the undercurrent will linger on in its cess pool.

You can’t deal with a problem that is inherently connected with Scottish Football by ignoring it. This blog could have a lasting effect on Scottish football. Be brave TSFM, trust those that are wiling to contribute to a better footballing society.

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timtimPosted on12:25 am - Sep 20, 2012

Webster says:
September 19, 2012 at 23:46
Webster ,your link is definately a copy of the original broadcast
I listened to Guidis comment many times to ensure I wasnt hearing things
after your post informing us you had written to Clyde asking for confirmation I replayed
the original broadcast when some on here disputed the content.
Clyde obviously checked the podcast since you notified them and altered it .
In this digital age it is not difficult to remove the “I hope” and replace it with a more acceptable
transcript .
There are 2 issues here
Is Guidi a fit and proper person to be making comment on national radio when he encourages
and indeed “hopes ” for social unrest , and
Is Clyde a fit and proper employer when they are prepared to cover up his words rather than take him to task over what he said
I hope Clyde respond to you and you let us know their reply

As for TSFM -I think you took on a monumental task in carrying on the magnificent RTC site
and I thank you for the thankless task you perform in giving us an outlet to see this case to its conclusion

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AgrajagPosted on12:36 am - Sep 20, 2012

oldrab says:
September 19, 2012 at 23:06

the draft 5 way agreement seems to be printed in tomorrows daily record


Why print a draft.

Was there never a final agreement.

If there was, then why not print that final agreement.

If there wasn’t then why are the new club playing in Scottish football. How did they get a place without any form of agreement with the football authorities.

It simply doesn’t make any sense. A draft is, by definition not a final document. Once it is agreed you drop the word draft.

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CWPosted on12:39 am - Sep 20, 2012

TSFM says:
September 19, 2012 at 22:57

campsiejoe says:

September 19, 2012 at 22:46(Edit)

We all need to cut each other a wee bit of slack sometimes, whilst at the same time respecting each others point of view

CJ. Correct. We are all big boys here and the Karma Police can be a bit gloomy. I think that aspect of it is a matter of degree. Last night I thought it became a bit OTT, but that is nothing compared to some of plain sectarian nonsense that was posted on here the other day by one poster.



Obviously having a wee go at me (on the OTT Stuff, hopefully not the “plain sectarian nonsense that was posted on here the other day by one poster” !).

That’s fine ! I was just enjoying a good football match where the underdog Won against the Odds !

Before anyone states the obvious, I know QOS are a Division above ! Their whole wage bill for a Month probably wouldn’t cover McCoist’s weekly wage !

That’s why it was exciting to watch !

It became OTT because something exciting WAS actually happening in Scottish Football for a change last night. As I said before, Rangers actually had about 6 International’s on that park last night. They lost to a Scottish 2nd Div team, and were playing at Home ! That was exciting !

I felt the same when Celtic lost to Ross County in the Semi-Final a few years ago.

I like the Underdog ! That’s where I come from (Paisley, grew up in the 70’s watching 16 Year old Captain Tony Fitzpatrick, Frank McGarvey, Billy Stark, Billy Johnstone, Iain Munro, Jimmy Bone, Dougie Somner, Billy Thompson (“Give us a wave “), Bobby Reid (Best Centre Half Scotland never had !), Wee Bobby McKean (God Bless Him), Frank McAvennie, too many more to mention.

Do you know, in those days we used to catch the Bus into Paisley for home Games at the same Bus Stop as Tony Fitzpatrick and Derek Hyslop ! TF must be the best St Mirren Captain ever ! He was so young at the time and had to contend with Sir Alex as well. What an apprenticeship ! A True Gentleman, 16 year old Captain ? Doubt that will ever be seen again. Our National Team Manager thinks Rhodes is too young at 22 ?

Sorry, TSFM, going off Topic a bit there ! Reminiscing too much !

Going back on Topic, I get the message. I’m neither a Lawyer nor Accountant nor Journalist, so I don’t really have much to contribute to The Blog. I’ll, eh, take my custom elsewhere then, maybe even take up buying The S*n again ?

I like to think I’ve asked a few probing questions in the past that have made a few more intelligent people than me think “He’s got a good point there !”.

I’ll pop in by from time to time to see how things are going (As Lurkers do !), but this will be the last post from me, as :

1. It is beginning to annoy me seeing “whatever” Rangers (IA/ IL / Oldco/ Sevco, delete as appropriate) continue to be pandered by MSM / SFA / SPL / Scottish Parliament, delete as appropriate !

2. There comes a time in your life when the first thing to check is “ScottishFootballMonitor” on your Favourites !

3. Only a Full (Independant) Public Scottish Parliamentary Enquiry will sort this mess out.

It’s time for me to move on now. I used to love Football, but not anymore.

Good luck with the venture (also Good Luck with 3 above !).

p.s Last night WAS great !

Adios My Friends ! (and Good Luck ! I fear you are all going to need it !)

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rabPosted on12:45 am - Sep 20, 2012

rab on September 20, 2012 at 00:11
 2 0 Rate This
Lord Wobbly.

Lol, or even a Rabbi, Jackie Mason didn’t have any problems either. Oi yoi yoi.

(Will Mason beat the mods)

Yeah, the jew beat the hitlers. ( only kidding mods, i think your doing a grand j

[ TSFM edit }

we interupt this post as rab is taking outside and soundly beaten till he learns to stop posting religous references, please enjoy some easy listening while we sort out these technical difficulties.

Ooft, quoting myself and talking in the third person, i need to get a grip. 😀

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KatiePosted on12:58 am - Sep 20, 2012

oldrab says:

September 19, 2012 at 23:21…t-plan-1167046

Try this link

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BigrabbitPosted on12:59 am - Sep 20, 2012

Charles Green – What Will Football’s Authorities Do?

timtim says:
September 19, 2012 at 19:08

Loaded this file, ssb18th.mp3, into audacity, removed bass and slowed the speed down .
He says, “ I (glottal stop) LL, itll kick off”


“Where do you want to go today Bigrabbit” Bill Gates, MS, and Audacity open source software. (Free).

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badgerbhoyPosted on1:08 am - Sep 20, 2012

Can I buy the history before I had to sign in for £1?

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Doon the slopePosted on1:24 am - Sep 20, 2012

There seems to be a debate (which has actually been simmering for some time on here) on whether the ‘Rangers’ problem is fuelled by:

a. – Money/greed/corruption (abuse of power.)


b. – Culture/religion/tradition (the seeking or maintaining of power.)

RTC was pretty unequivocal – Discussion on b. was not welcome.

I have marvelled at the forensic posters on here (a) and have been educated for sure.

But b. is being so obviously used to achieve a. that it makes b. ON TOPIC.

Couldnt we find a more philosophical way to discuss b. without descending into language which would require moderation?

I really dont give a hoot whether we have each and every football club’s supporters’ views represented on here. I want to read good, insightful, educational posts. Posts which will challenge my own perceptions and prejudices, engage me AND challenge Scottish football and the MSM.

(I also enjoy the laughter on here. Humour can achieve much.)

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Caveat EmptorPosted on1:34 am - Sep 20, 2012

Another test!

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RayCharlezPosted on1:55 am - Sep 20, 2012

Webster says:
September 19, 2012 at 23:37
3 0 Rate This

I reckon Guidi says “know”.

We are listening to an MP3 file which uses a lossy compression codec.

The bit rate will also have been reduced to decease the file size.

Lossy compression and low bit rate = audio artefacts.

Things such as pre-echo where a sound is heard before it occurs.

There is something not quite right about the “hope” sound.

As if there are some bits of audio data that have become a wee bit mangled up.

PS: I am not Mark Guidi’s lawyer.

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Parson St. BhoyPosted on2:12 am - Sep 20, 2012

Bigrabbit says:
September 20, 2012 at 00:59

Loaded this file, ssb18th.mp3, into audacity, removed bass and slowed the speed down .
He says, “ I (glottal stop) LL, itll kick off”

As Guidi has a relatively deep voice why remove the bass?
Better to use something like Peak as opposed to Audacity and put the relevant section on a loop.

The word hope is far removed from anything sounding like a glottal stop.
Guidi :– “…up in arms, an ah hope i’ ‘ill kick off …in a word. Yeah”
Delahunt is making sounds of agreement as Gudi speaks and comes out with “Civil war is’n’ i’ ”
speaking just before and over where Guidi says almost simultaneously “… in a word.” Followed by his agreement ‘Yeah”.
Any glottal stop comes after hope which is aspirated normally.
Guidi most certainly says hope, why else would Radio Clyde have allegedly doctored the recording for playback? No more messing about with scalpels and sticky tape in this digital age.
It’s bad enough when the MSM are trying to get us to feed from the bucket of ordure they cast before us but when they are now urinating in it as we watch it is beyond a joke. In fact it is quite sinister.

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BigrabbitPosted on2:12 am - Sep 20, 2012

Mark Guidi clip
Used from different posts.

Now this is odd, using all files as provided and running them through audio diffmaker, this generates a third audio file from the two with the differences highlighted. If there are differences then they will be heard in the third file.
The result for all files is a completely silent file, meaning they are identical!
I seem to HEAR the difference (hope/itll ) but the computer can’t’
Jings my computer is deaf! Or my ears are nackered.

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m8dreamerPosted on2:14 am - Sep 20, 2012

The purpose of this blog should be to preserve the Sporting Integrity of Scottish Football and ensure that any person or organisation that has been involved in illegal/corrupt practices are identified and removed from Scottish Football for ever.
Only when this has been achieved will Scottish Football be able to move forward into the future.

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BigrabbitPosted on2:27 am - Sep 20, 2012

RayCharles says:
September 20, 2012 at 01:55
You are correct both tracks have the following attributes:-

—Beginning difference extraction— (see last post)
>> Files are stereophonic, at 44.1kHz sample rate, about 62.17 seconds long.
>> The Reference track is 24 bits; the Compared Track is 24 bits (high quality would be 360bits)
>> Using Large memory algorithms
>> Finding the spectra of the “Reference” and “Compared” tracks
>> [quad fourier transform: size 4x 4194304]
>> Correlating the “Compared” with the “Reference”

Apologies for OT .

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RayCharlezPosted on2:31 am - Sep 20, 2012

Bigrabbit says:
September 20, 2012 at 02:27
0 0 Rate This

So apart from what I said I was right?

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StevieBCPosted on2:37 am - Sep 20, 2012

Undercover operation.
I think I have an idea where CG will be pitching his proposed share issue in NYC on Thursday.

For the benefit of the TSFM site I intend to ‘go undercover’ to hear him speak – and maybe even ask a question – and report back.

Despite the big shamrock tattoo on my neck, I will do my best to blend in with the Sevco fans… 🙄

Wish me luck…I may be some time…

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The CEPosted on2:39 am - Sep 20, 2012

Keep up the good work guys.

The poll’s looking good at the moment, Chairman Mao would be proud! 🙂

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NowoldandgrumpyPosted on2:42 am - Sep 20, 2012

oldrab says:

September 19, 2012 at 23:21

The SFA……
They added: “Now that the club’s status has been confirmed by the SPL and SFL, we will consider the award of transfer once Rangers FC satisfy the necessary criteria.”
Interesting that comment, as they granted full membership without any of the conditions in the draft agreement being met or even agreed.
So what has changed in the final version that allowed Sevco to get full membership?
However we will never know, as I posted previously, everything to do with Sevco is to be kept totally confidential.
Could it be that there is no final agreement and that we have been lied to again by the SFA?
Is this the reason for the newly created conditional membership. Was it more important that they play the Ramsdens cup tie than have any agreement finalised?

Is anyone aware of this level of secrecy from the SFA ever happening in the past?
Can the SFA legally be allowed to make an agreement with an organisation, that was not even a football club at that time and that that decision affects every football club and every football supporter, and then decide that no one should ever know what that agreement is?
Apologies for another rant.

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IniquitousPosted on2:43 am - Sep 20, 2012

You are doing a first class job and your objective is laudable. If the incipient and endemic corruption in Scottish football is not rooted out, we will inevitably sink to the level of a San Marino in world football. It is my perception that most posters will follow your guidelines, although I am also sure that there will be periodic ‘gloating’ outbreaks depending on future developments.
Anyway, keep up the good work! I really enjoy reading the blog on a daily basis.

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davad00Posted on2:46 am - Sep 20, 2012

Apologies. Post testing

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ExiledCeltPosted on3:18 am - Sep 20, 2012

Nowoldandgrumpy says:

September 20, 2012 at 02:42

Remember CG was also – long before he was gifted a conditional membership – being kept personallly up to date by Petrie at the orders of SR – according to the leaked email – therefore a non member (not associate, not full and not conditional (given that it did not exist) was privy to information not afforded to the likes of our hero Sir Hutton, who were full members – nowhere in the sporting or business world there be a precedent for this – if there is i would welcome to hear about it and the justifications

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Colin MearnsPosted on4:52 am - Sep 20, 2012

So, several days ago we have Chucky demanding that the SFA/SPL show the world the draft copy of the 5 way agreement, then today the Daily Record prints same, i wander where they got their copy???? Chucky your at it…..

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ExiledCeltPosted on6:09 am - Sep 20, 2012

Colin Mearns – I can’t see it in the online edition – if you have it can you provide a link?

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stmileyPosted on6:15 am - Sep 20, 2012

Sevco fans celebrating the revealing of the 5 way agreement as a victory. They fail to see that Charlie Bhoy was ready to sign off on this if they got into the 1st Division.

They also fail to see that this was a great deal, titles stripped and no further punishment for 11 years of cheating.

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ExiledCeltPosted on6:27 am - Sep 20, 2012


We can’t find the page:

The file could not be found for a number of reasons such as the file being moved or deleted. Please check your spelling and if you still can’t get to the right page try either using the Search Box below or heading to the homepage for a look around.

If you still have problems, try emailing and we’ll do what we can to help you. Click here to get back to where you came from.

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ExiledCeltPosted on6:28 am - Sep 20, 2012

Why do we care about the draft copy when we never have seent he final copy?

The draft is what was set out for discussion – I want to see the agreement

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stunneyPosted on7:04 am - Sep 20, 2012

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stunneyPosted on7:07 am - Sep 20, 2012

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stunneyPosted on7:09 am - Sep 20, 2012

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stunneyPosted on7:09 am - Sep 20, 2012

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stevensanphPosted on7:30 am - Sep 20, 2012

Am I missing something? That Daily Record link is from the 18th of July so is nothing new that we didn’t already know.

However, found this line interesting:

“Neither RFC nor Sevco may make any disclosure to a third party, press release or public announcement whatsoever about, concerning or relating to this agreement … except with the express prior written consent of each of the SFA, the SPL and the SFL.”

Surely – just by talking about it, Green/Sevco have broken this agreement? I would love to know what the sanctions are should the agreement be broken 🙂

Note also how the alleged document makes a clear distinction between RFC and Sevco, as two different entities.

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NowoldandgrumpyPosted on7:38 am - Sep 20, 2012

IMO there is no final draft of the agreement.
Would Charles not have said “The agreement”?
He distinctly says “The draft agreement”.

Now either that, or the only things in the final agreement are the transfer embargo and the payment of football debts.

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ulyanovaPosted on7:39 am - Sep 20, 2012

Re: Record and 5 way agreement I clicked on the link last night. It led to an article by Journo of the Year Jackson from July.
Of course they may reprint this as an EXCLUSIVE today.

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ExiledCeltPosted on7:44 am - Sep 20, 2012

I also want to see the final agreement with date and time hopefully so we can see if theyr really did complete the agreement before the Olympic opening ceremony and if it was done in time to register the players correctly for a “consitional” member before they turned out at Brechin……

Now wouldn’t that be a wow moment!

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WOTTPIPosted on7:44 am - Sep 20, 2012

Colin Mearns says:
September 20, 2012 at 04:52

exiledcelt says:
September 20, 2012 at 06:27

I think people are missing the point. The despite the mention of confidentiality a supposed draft of the 5 way agreement found its way to the DR and they published a story in July

Charles Green has rightly said that the stripping of the titles has been on the agenda from the start and this is can be seen in the draft of the 5 Way Agreement, as published above.

The issues therefore are

Was the draft agreement seen by the DR genuine?
If it is and was supposed to be confidential who leaked it?
As this was only the draft agreement, even if no details are made public, has there ever been confirmation that a final version was agreed and signed up to by all parties?
Have T’Rangers really kept up their side of the bargin?

I am wondering if T’Rangers dug in their heels and haven’t agreed to put the title stripping in the 5 way agreement.

Therefore in suddenly making them full members of the SFA the club is then bound by all the footballing rules, not just the 5 way ‘side;’ agreement.

It is not a new membership but a transfer of membership from Rangers (IA/NIL), therefore Charlie Boy as a fully signed up member will find it hard to argue that the SFA do not have the right to look into historical matters related to said membership.

Therefore T’ Rangers have to abide by the laws and rules of the game and that includes the SPL commission which is why Green has been called up early doors for his latest comments.

I hope I am right and that the SFA /SPL:have finally grown a pair.

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ExiledCeltPosted on7:45 am - Sep 20, 2012

Conditional member – sorry!

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ExiledCeltPosted on7:48 am - Sep 20, 2012

WOTTPI – ok understand – I was thinking there was a newer version since Chuck threw his toys out the pram the other night.

Since this is confidential and was done in July – where was the outcry from SFA – and why bother with a confidentiality clause if no one is enforcing it. Don’t see anyone doing anything to Teflon Charlie.

Forget about SPL/SFA growing a pair – SFA/SPL have a pair of T!Ts running them!

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Danish PastryPosted on7:58 am - Sep 20, 2012

Webster says:
September 20, 2012 at 01:29
 8 2 Rate This
timtim says:
September 20, 2012 at 00:25
9 0 Rate This
Webster says:
September 19, 2012 at 23:46
Webster ,your link is definately a copy of the original broadcast
I listened to Guidis comment many times to ensure I wasnt hearing things

Sadly, no response from Radio Clyde today. But that is fair enough, I am patient and will wait a couple of days.

If there is no response, then, from Clyde or Mark Guidi? Hmm…

On this recording:

…it really does sound as if Mark Guidi is saying “The Rangers fans will be up in arms and I hope it’ll kick off”.

Sorry folks, I think this audio clip thing is more subjective than objective. I’m still not hearing ‘hope’. To me it’s simply his poor diction. To my lugs he doesn’t pronounce ‘it will’ he says something more along the lines of ‘eh-t-ull’ or ‘iht-ill’. Difficult to listen when the other guy is saying ‘yeah’ three times over it too (Now ‘Yeah, Yeah, Yeah!’ that is audio nostalga). I am not convinced this is leading anywhere. Seems to be a bit of a ‘Blessed are the cheesemakers’ moment.

I think miki67 makes a good point above when he says that what is actually disturbing in that segment is that it’s taken as a given that there will be huge unrest (things will kick off) if measures are taken against the offending ex-club. Doesn’t help that Mr ‘I bought those titles’ is doing what he can to stir things up ‘in the stupidity of Scotland’. Funny how he, Regan and Doncaster are the men at the centre of this ‘Scottish’ stupidity 🙂

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nowoldandgrumpyPosted on8:15 am - Sep 20, 2012

Charles has never said that he has agreed to the stripping of titles. Did he not say they “WANTED” us to agree?

If the stripping of titles is not in any final draft, if one exists, then Charlie is on safe ground mentioning it, as the confidentiality would only relate to what is in the final draft, would it not?

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rossPosted on8:32 am - Sep 20, 2012

I have listened and it certainly seems like MG said hope. It is no doubt a serious offence for SSB to have since doctored the recording. Surely this will leave MG untenable as an unbiased observer and therefore he should be axed from his newspaper and radio positions. It will be interesting to hear the Radio Clyde response on this and I am glad that they are not going to get away with it.

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nowoldandgrumpyPosted on8:35 am - Sep 20, 2012

stunney says:
September 20, 2012 at 07:09


“Until that moment, the SPL were looking to trade SPL status for an admission of guilt on EBTs and a sanction of stripped titles. We couldn’t and didn’t give them that.”

“Stripping of titles was definitely within that document”.

So this is not in any final agreement then, it was only in the draft?

How much worse can this shambles get?

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Don JohnPosted on9:03 am - Sep 20, 2012

Morning all, a few points.

First up congratulations to SFM for taking on the baton from RTC. Yes, it’s a hard act to follow given that individual’s intelligence, logic and application of forensic skills to the investigation of what was going on at Rangers. To say that RTC has changed the reporting of Scottish football would be an understatement and the Scottish media, with a handful of honourable exceptions, have been shamed by their lack of diligence in this matter. Indeed some of them are still in that shame zone and either don’t know it or won’t admit it. I look forward to the book.
Secondly, no problems with WordPress registration, it’s a simple process and required anyway if you want an Avatar based on a character from one of your favourite films.

Thirdly, no problem with the expungement of bad language and insults, such as use of the name of a certain race of Eastern nomadic people. The only thing I’d ask is that is it possible to set the controls a little more lightly? I can’t be the only person who has seen a post go straight into moderation because a perfectly innocent word, such as that for three orders of magnitude, contains a particular three word group? With longer posts I now have to compose in Word and run a search function to ensure I am not delinquent.

I’d also agree with the moderation of anything straying into the fields of religion or politics. I appreciate that some people support certain teams for reasons that have little to do with football and this may even have a bearing on why those teams are treated much more favourably, but it is the job of others to clean up the overarching religio-political arena. The Scottish Football Monitor’s task is to continue to shine a light into the dark recesses of Scottish football so that such corruption does not persist in polluting the beautiful game. Let’s concentrate on our area of interest and leave the wider field to those who have elected responsibilities.

Finally, a word of admonition to the former work colleague who introduced me to RTC on the day Rangers went bust. You know who you are! My life has changed forever, and I now sit at the PC, browsing and posting when I should be working or in the evening, bleary-eyed, long after I should have gone to bed. Whether a blog can be cited in divorce proceedings remains to be seen.

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Madbhoy24941Posted on9:17 am - Sep 20, 2012

It seems to me the “always on the agenda” point CG is making is 100% correct and rightly should be, it was on the agenda for a reason. The SFA/SPL knew that if information presented to them at that point turned out to be true then by applying the rules, title history had to be amended. So removing titles was always going to happen if the rules were applied, whether CG bought parts of Rangers or not. By creating the newco and attempting to turn them into the former Rangers, the SFA/SPL were only trying to ensure CG did not forget that this process would continue against the oldco.

So yes, it was on the agenda but that should not be the talking point. The real issue is why the agenda is being questioned in the first place. Rules are rules and there for a reason, I don’t believe the SFA/SPL are pre-empting anything, merely informing the consequences if evidence recently uncovered turns out to contravene regulations.


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Danish PastryPosted on9:23 am - Sep 20, 2012

ross says:
September 20, 2012 at 08:32
 2 1 Rate This
I have listened and it certainly seems like MG said hope. It is no doubt a serious offence for SSB to have since doctored the recording. Surely this will leave MG untenable as an unbiased observer and therefore he should be axed from his newspaper and radio positions. It will be interesting to hear the Radio Clyde response on this and I am glad that they are not going to get away with it.

I’m no particular fan of the Clyde1 presenters but if MG said ‘hope’ it

* doesn’t really make any sense in the context of what says before and after

* the caller he was talking to didn’t pull him up

* if he had actually said ‘hope’ then elaborate audio editing would have been unnecessary; in a transcript there could have been an ellipsis – three dots – to imply an unfinished thought or sentence. He could simply have argued that what he was going to say was, ‘I hope this doesn’t kick off …’, then changed his choice of phrase

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jockybhoyPosted on9:25 am - Sep 20, 2012

From previous: insidewinger says: September 19, 2012 at 17:01

JB, your 3rd paragraph is wrong. The book value of a player who signs a new deal will not be upped to his perceived market value. His remaining value (from the original contract) will now however be amortised over the new duration of the contract. If he receives signing money for the new contract, which many players do, or if the club pays his agent a fee, which again happens often, that cost will be added to the remining book value of the original contract and be amortised.

Oh, ok, I read the following description from incorrectly:
“Where a club extends a players’ contract, the book value at the time the contract was re-negotiated would need to be amortised over the duration of the new contract. These rule applies to all players on a club’s books, irrespective of when they were signed (i.e. even if acquired before the commencement of the first FFP Monitoring Period”

For some reason I was equating book value with market value. Doh. That makes more sense. When I had a bit of accountancy training the example used was Beckham – as someone who came through the ranks he was worth £0 on the books but when he got sold to Madrid, ManU got a £24.5m windfall. I thought maybe something had changed, pleased it hasn’t…

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dedeideoprofundisPosted on9:27 am - Sep 20, 2012

Don John says:

Secondly, no problems with WordPress registration, it’s a simple process and required anyway if you want an Avatar based on a character from one of your favourite films.

Really?,when it states that username must be in lowercase, I see that you have got round that in some way. Even when I try a name in lowercase it blocks me.

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ExiledCeltPosted on9:33 am - Sep 20, 2012

madbhoy24941 says:

September 20, 2012 at 09:17

I disagree – it shoudl never have been on the agenda because it has nothign to do with Sevco getting the membership of RFC-NIL.

It appears to be the case that SFA/SPL were using it as a bargaining chip if you believe CG to being put into SFL1 earlier.

SFA/SPL had no right putting it on the agenda because it was something that shoudl have been done earlier – but for some reason (to use as a bargaining chip) they postponed it and postponed it…..

The only item should have been on the agenda is – if you want the licence of RFC-NIL to sue and pretend it is you, anything that is discovered pertaining to that said licence is going to be your responsability.

Unless you want to be a brand new club in which case it does not – but then you cannot call yourself Rangers

SPL/SFA used it to say the most you will get is stripped titles we promise – the actual punishment would be the club thrown out of the league.

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taxman comethPosted on9:33 am - Sep 20, 2012

This has taken the focus off discussion nicely well done the trolls

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AngusPosted on9:34 am - Sep 20, 2012

Galling fiver says:
September 19, 2012 at 21:54

Angus there is two clips, have you listened to both?

No – I didn’t know there were two. The one I referred (21:46 last night) to was posted up by someone towards the end of the last blog, hosted as an mp3 presumably on his own btinternet site (sorry for not giving credit).

Does the other clip contain the same segment, or a different comment by Guidi? Because the one I heard does not contain the words “I hope” by any stretch of the imagination, TDs notwithstanding. 🙂

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ttm1961Posted on9:34 am - Sep 20, 2012


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Danish PastryPosted on9:34 am - Sep 20, 2012

Don John says:
September 20, 2012 at 09:03
 5 0 Rate This
Morning all, a few points.

I gave the latest blog a 5-star click, but you’ve put that endorsement into words. Bravo.

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carl31Posted on9:36 am - Sep 20, 2012

In my mind you need to separate the current Rangers saga into a separate forum on this blog. (suggestion – maybe this could be done by a forum for each team?). Dont know how much effort this takes. On a few occasions, Ive noticed a number of threads rolling all together – maybe Scotland manager, Rangers on field, Rangers off field, Celtic in Europe/signing shortcomings and a couple of others. Inevitably, as these roll along concurrently there are cross-over issues – how these would be dealt with in a separate forum setup I’m not sure? Maybe a general forum too?

The Rangers forum would dominate now, but if this blog is to take aim over the longer term at Scottish Football and its wrongs/inadequacies/possible corruption, then this should tend to even up over time. I forsee issues with other SPL clubs, primarily Hearts going by the late payment of salaries rearing its head again.

I appreciate your point that the site takes 4 hrs to moderate due to traffic and this would be reduced by a more formal registration, but I feel reduced traffic generally, and the ongoing travails of Rangers will mean that Rangers fans will be under-represented here

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forweonlyknowPosted on9:37 am - Sep 20, 2012

I’m not sure if this is OFF POINT or not. I’m also not sure whether it has been posted (if so I apologise). The following is, for me, relevant as it is at the heart of the ‘dangerous precedent’ of which I’ve spoke about many a time. This ability of Charles Green and his consortium to convince The Rangers fans that the “newco” route (without a CVA) is a continuation of Old Rangers FC is amazing. OK he has a captive audience who WANT to BELIEVE but the precedent of not paying your debts, liquidating, incubating and floating on the stock market ‘debt free’ opens the doors to a lot of clubs (Scottish & English) using it as an easy way out! Anyway rant over! Here are Charles Green’s and Mr Imran’s main points. I’ll let you decide if Charles Green has ever told a lie!


Here’s a transcript from what Charles Green and Imran have told the Toronto Rangers supporters club:

1. We have never told a lie
2. He got a phone call on Friday the 16th of feb asking if he wanted to be the next CEO Of Rangers. He said “No thanks
3. Ch5 have approached us to do a series on the club. We said “No”
4. Souness is someone he knows fairly well. He had connections to the club but didn’t come in as a fan
5. Nobody should own Rangers FC like DM and CW did again
6. The opportunity that lies as a result of this gives us the biggest opportunity in Rangers history
7. We plan to get the G51 development back on track
8. League reconstruction will happen. There’s the SPL version and the football league version
9. We have a meeting on Sunday before Montrose with the football league
10. We have been blackmailed since the day we got in (He means Regan etc)
11. Where we angered a lot of people was my name. It only appeared the day we got exclusivity
12. He’s met CW 4 times and found him an arrogant little chap. He was convinced he held al the cards. He was wrong
13. Brain K might have had a piece of paper, but we had a document signed in the presence of lawyers
14. On the Friday Souness called me asking if it was ok to give BK my phone number. BK kept asking how I was so sure I was buying Rangers while Imran was in the next room signing a document for exclusivity
15. CVA was tabled at £8.5M, Newco route was £5.5M
16. He explained the investor structure. Arif and Mike Ashley mentioned
17.”If Rangers fans don’t buy shares then I can’t do a thing about that. Nobody can say I didn’t try
18. Our investors will be locked in for no sale for 12 months
19. “I’m staying now till the job is finished, Untill we’re back at the top”
20. CEO of Juve was bribing officials for years and only got demoted one division
21. Chairman of Bursaspor read the list of what has happened to us last week in Geneva and said ”I can’t believe what’s been done to you”
22. They have a meeting with Chuck Blazer in New York today
23. We want Rangers back in the CL group stages
24. Rangers will NEVER be in this position again
25. CG has some shares but he can get fired tomorrow. DM and CW couldn’t
26. We need to run Rangers as a business
27. There needs to be balance. No point in raising funds then blowing them
28. Review of Murray park ongoing. It’s World Class but needs improved
29. In four years time we could have 6 players under 21 with over 100 senior games. Unheard of
30. He will NOT bow to Mob rule
Now it’s the turn of Imran

31. He is saying Rangers are going to focus on health and leisure around Ibrox. No supermarket type thing. Cancer partners, British land, Ardmore group, Mariott/Holiday Inn
32. Massive brand opportunities in America. We’ve been in talks with the Dallas Cowboys about commercial partnership
33. We’re going with Adidas next year. Adidas have said they lost RM and Liverpool so Rangers will be the biggest club they have
34. We will be opening shops in Belfast, the airport, have stores with in the stores of Sports direct (high profile) and will get a share of profits . They’re a better partner that JJB
35. We believe we can get £30-40M in sales of merchandise

Now he talks about content delivery and how it impacts our future. In a nutshell, how our game are broadcast

36. We are speaking to ESPN/Disney next week
37. CG and Imran know they got Rangers at a steal
38. Preseason friendlies in America in conjunction with Adidas using Reyna and Boca as Rangers ambassadors
39. Minimum investment of IPO is £500 (that means you have to pay a minimum of £500 to buy shares)
40. Audited statement and broker letter will go to any investor
41. Imran just told me that he’d expect CAGR on commercial revenue of 100% in two years. Growing from £10M to £20M in two seasons.


Plenty of £500 Christmas presents this year I’d imagine.

Merry Christmas. You now own shares in a Company (not a club) called The Rangers Football Club (Formerly Sevco Scotland Ltd).

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Don JohnPosted on9:50 am - Sep 20, 2012

De Profundis says:
September 20, 2012 at 09:27


sorry to hear that. It’s a while since I registerd but I can’t recall any particular problems,

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chancer67Posted on10:01 am - Sep 20, 2012

miki67 @02::32

Surely they are MSM lambpots

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rantinrobinPosted on10:05 am - Sep 20, 2012

Apropos of the ‘whatever happened to the Philip Jose Farmer, F.K.A Hugh McEwan’ thread can anybody shed any light on the cyberspace disappearance of ’54 to 0′ Slimshady ?

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smallteaserPosted on10:09 am - Sep 20, 2012

forweonlyknow says:
September 20, 2012 at 09:37

28. Review of Murray park ongoing. It’s World Class but needs improved

36. We are speaking to ESPN/Disney next week
28. Not another out of this world event, what better than World Class??

36. While ESPN are selling all their contracts to BTVISION after losing the EPL deal they are talking to Rangers, aye right.

Good post, is this from someone at the meeting or is it minuted somewhere??

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Danish PastryPosted on10:10 am - Sep 20, 2012

forweonlyknow says:
September 20, 2012 at 09:37
 2 0 Rate This

Here’s a transcript from what Charles Green and Imran have told the Toronto Rangers supporters club:

When you say transcript you mean verbatim quotes, right? Is there an audio of this?

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J MaclurePosted on10:11 am - Sep 20, 2012

Charles Green said he wouldn’t turn up at “supposedly independent hearings where the SPL appoint the jury, set the outcome, and set the punishment before the trial.”

Turnbull Hutton said “[We are being] bullied, railroaded and lied to. We are being lied to by the Scottish FA and the SPL. We are being threatened and bullied. It is not football as I know it.’

Have a look at those two statements, I am not asking you in the context of whether you agree with them or not, or who said them. I know it is difficult but try.

Then ask yourself why is one of them charged by the Scottish Football Association of bringing the game into disrepute and one not?

I honestly would like to know.

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