I have been receiving quite a bit of unflattering mail about the “agenda” being pursued on this blog. Depending on the correspondent, that is defined as either denying people their civil right to gloat, hiding the “truth” that people of the RC faith are welcomed and encouraged to come to Ibrox, or indulging in Chamberlain-style appeasement with the banning of the “H” word and other incontrovertible rights-to-insult.
The objection to moderation of any sort appears to be at the root of these diatribes. Our position here in terms of moderation is clear. There is no “agenda” other than a desire not to be chasing up posts containing the rantings and ravings of partisan types who “demand” their right to be heard no matter how objectionable it might be to those hear it. We are not here to service a conduit for conspiracy theories based in Masonic Lodges or the Vatican. There are plenty of places where people can indulge in that kind of stuff, but the moderators here are just not interested. The administration of the site takes around four hours per day. That’s a long time trawling through posts which often set out deliberately to insult, abuse or otherwise cause offence – mildly or otherwise.
Our view is that the blog will only have cross-club support if we stick to what we can substantiate by fact or reasonably infer from the way things proceed. Further, we feel that if we are to gain credibility as an alternative source of news and comment to the MSM, that we need to cut down on the fansite type comments. There is no dignity (a word often used here) in calling the Rangers manager or their fans names. We need to maintain higher standards of impartiality than football fansites, because we know that a united fan base can actually make a difference as RTC did when the SPL chairmen were gearing up for a parachute for the new Rangers. OT discussions are fine, and often amusing, but they shouldn’t become the main reason to come here.
The requirement to have a WordPress account before posting here is not in any way draconian. It is designed to make people accountable for what they post whilst still maintaining anonymity, and therefore being exempt from moderation. Those who don’t like it are not being compelled to carry out any instruction – they only need go to a place where they don’t feel so constrained.
If the main issue of this blog becomes how the blog is being administered – or how the moderation policy is affecting the human rights of posters, we may as well just pack up now.
There have never been any objections to the suggested posting rules on here. We assume that people who post are reasonably intelligent. Therefore it seems fair to assume that those who have ignored the suggested posting rules did so deliberately. If that doesn’t happen, moderation is just not required.
If what we are trying to do fails because of our posting framework, then we will be blamed. We are certain though, that we can have no credibility if we indulge ourselves in conspiracy theories and constant references to anachronistic organisations, the Scottish school system, and the leanings of referees.
There is real corruption in Scottish football. It is based not on religious rivalries but on greed and acquisitiveness. The only thing that matters is that we identify that corruption and help put an end to it.
Our job is to ask questions and not jump to our own conclusions about the answers. That will divide us as surely as the realisation of the depth of the corruption united us. To be totally united as fans, we need to have more Rangers fans on here. Therefore we need to create an atmosphere that they can be comfortable with. Is that the case right now? The anger for RFC’s mismanagement and abuse of the game in Scotland is real, but we need to look forward if we are truly committed to ensuring that what happened to Rangers can’t happen again.
We’re not gonna throw the toys out of the pram here. If anyone else would like to run the blog under those circumstances of zero moderation, we will be happy to hand over the domain. There is no “agenda” – we will be happy to hand the work over to others.
The initial posting which proposed the change to WordPress logins received over 130 TUs and only three TDs. Subsequently the post advising of the changes got around 100 TUs and 100 TDs. It seems that minds are not entirely made up.
To get some closure on this once and for all, we have added a poll below to end on Saturday at 1700 where you can decide whether you want to go along with our original plan in terms of login and moderation. We obviously recommend that you vote “Yes”
StevieBC @ 20:54
Until we know what his proposal actually is, there is nothing to investigate, unfortunately
Mark Dingwall (Grandmaster Suck) the man who operates Follow Follow, the fanzine and the website, actually managed to get his publication banned from Ibrox because his sectarian views were too extreme.
timtim says:
September 28, 2012 at 20:42
I am delighted to hear RTC has no intention of meeting with the DR,as a wiser man than me once said
“Don’t argue with idiots because they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The question is Timtim….why now? Why have the daily ranger waited with all that has gone on..with what RTC has previously revealed…and exposed..WHY WOULD that rag suddenly want his personal time to discuss anything??
The timing is everything…and the last 2-3 days has indicated there is something flushing down the pipes sometime soon …and suddenly the daily ranger has found an interest in RTC?
Mmmmmm…something doesn’t smell right…RTC is spot on…they didn’t want to know before…therefore they don’t deserve his personal time now!!
Agrajag says:
September 28, 2012 at 21:03
Rate This
Mark Dingwall (Grandmaster Suck) the man who operates Follow Follow, the fanzine and the website, actually managed to get his publication banned from Ibrox because his sectarian views were too extreme.
==================================
Not any more.The way things are going he is probably not extreme enough .
neepheid says:
September 28, 2012 at 20:46
StevieBC says:
September 28, 2012 at 20:18
…
Nothing to do with the SFA, for sure. A wholly private matter…
=============================
Thanks for that.
On the face of it, one would think that the SFA has nothing to do with a share sale.
But I would suggest that as the SFA has granted a licence to Sevco – despite the absence of the required 3/4 years of annual accounts to display financial probity – then the SFA has a greater responsibility to ensure that Sevco is able to meet its financial obligations – as well as its playing commitments throughout the season.
[campsiejoe @ 2100. Good point ! Currently it is speculation, but if/when CG produces some reference material to support a sale of shares, [not a Prospectus though !], then we can scrutinise.]
goosygoosy says:
September 28, 2012 at 20:46
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Ticketus is a different issue altogether. They bought £24.5m of STs from RFC AFTER (not before) the takeover. They paid the money to RFCG and got a contract with RFC in return which is legal since Whyte owned both cos and gave Ticketus personal gurantees that Liberty Capital would cough up if the contract failed to deliver
======================================================================
Apologies if this is going over old ground but I don’t get this bit.
The contract can only be between RFC and Ticketus – the money was legally due to RFC albeit RFCG took the cash or had it paid to them.(Its not right to say paying money to one company instead of the other because it has the same ownership is legal)
Why then would Ticketus be happy to take a guarantee from Liberty when they knew RFCG had the cash?
This is a far reaching scam where I believe many hours were put in by old and new owners to craft it. Whyte didn’t do this on his own.
Danish Pastry says:
September 28, 2012 at 20:33
There’s been a non-football aspect for as long as I remember. But the current frenzy of Britishness, the singing of God Save the Queen, Rule Britannia and the union flags, plus all that orangey stuff; I mean, honestly, at a Scottish football club? Stark raving bonkers.
*************
Couldn’t agree more
From what I understand it wasn’t until the brigade from NI and their involvement with the shipyards on the Clyde did Rangers become a sectarian club, I may be wrong. Anyways I doubt the Moses McNeil chappy and his mates from the Highlands had that vision for the club in mind when it was formed.
On the basis that the minutes of the NI trip are genuine I would add that I have posted on here before that Rangers will never have a global Scottish brand until they dump that crowd of half wits and I think Celtic should bring out an Orange top to really piss them off and take the singnificance of what they want away. I’m surprised that our friends in the 6 counties didn’t ask for a sash (a la Peru) stripe across this new Orange strip they so hotly desire.
Awe the poor wee souls they think nobody likes them and they dont want in the SPL ever again,! how dumb is that
I await the Tumb dooners
What rules in scottish football exist that would allow Sevco to refuse entry to the SPL if they ever won the 1st division?
Do they HAVE to go up if they win the league?
Or can they refuse?
StevieBC says:
September 28, 2012 at 20:54
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You may find Steve…until Rangers FC PLC are liquidated then converting THE RANGERS FOOTBALL CLUB LIMITED into a PLC…may cause a conflct with the club that is already in administration awaiting liquidation…
Therefore a private sale seems the only option…
Sorry, I have been out of the loop.
Are people suggesting that Charles Green is going to sell shares in the limited company to Rangers supporters, in multiples of £500, with them believing that it is in some way a share floatation.
Is he in fact selling the “Fergus Model” without actually floating the company but is really just selling shares to the gullible.
Charles Green is conning all the bears the way Mr Whyte did, and the papers are not even batting an eyelid at some of the outlandish comments, or question anything he says.
The saying a fool and his moneyt are easily parted has never been more appropriate
goosygoosy at 20.46:
I think you may be wrong with your chronology of the Ticketus cash coming to Rangers/Whyte.
Keith Jackson in the Daily Record (I know, I know . . . ) said he’d seen documentation that proved the Ticketus cash was in Whyte’s account BEFORE the takeover had even been completed.
Only one man had the clout to stand as guarantor for that. And it wasn’t Whyte.
Perhaps this is why Murray has been dishing out the succulent lamb again (so readily wolfed down and regurgitated like a loyal lapdog by the Daily Record’s utterly shameless Sports Editor).
I’ve been convinced from the start that the Ticketus transaction had Murray’s paws all over it.
Now Minty Moonbeams is back in the picture, ready to seal the fakeover.
It would be the perfect scam.
If it wasn’t for those pesky internet bampots.
Agrajag says:
September 28, 2012 at 21:29
Are people suggesting that Charles Green is going to sell shares in the limited company to Rangers supporters, in multiples of £500, with them believing that it is in some way a share floatation.
========================
It seems to be Green who is suggesting that. What the supporters believe isn’t his problem. I’m sure the “letter of invitation” will be drafted by experts to make it legally watertight.
What’s the betting they are non-voting shares? Well, you can’t expect too much for £500. The bears will lap this up. What a hoot!
Agrajag says:
September 28, 2012 at 20:54
So are we saying that Craig Whyte (through some vehicle(s)) has both a floating charge over assets and is owed somewhere in the region of £18m by the business which owns those assets.
In short, is there a possibility that whoever controls the floating charge is also owed money by the people who own the assets covered by the floating charge.
,,,,,,
What I`m saying is that everything owed by RFC to RFCG is legally covered by the floating charge over the assets which were in the RFC accounts at £120m in 2010
BUT
Although the fc did follow the assets its best to look at the transactions as a switcheroo meaning what happened had to happen to keep all the Spivs happy
D&P need to keep Lord Hodge from accusing them of selling cheap so they sold “debts” as well as “assets”
This means Sevco plc owes Whyte £27.5m and RFC owe Whyte nothing
.If Sevco plc go bust then Whyte gets the first £27.5m. of any sale proceeds from selling the assets of Sevco plc including selling Sevco Scotland owned by Sevco plc
If Sevco Scotland go bust the assets revert to Sevco plc Whytes fc continues and is only activated if Sevco plc go bust(Meanwhile he gets interest on the debt)
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Forgetting about the Green deal
If this had been a normal liquidation of RFC, Whyte would have to prove he was owed £27.5m
In calculating the net figure owed to Whyte an accountant would offset any monies that RFCG owed to RFC
So if RFCG owed RFC the Ticketus money then the RFC books would show that as an offset to the £18m Similarly if RFCG did work for RFC ( including work that was difficult to prove like “consultancy” at £600/hr) then RFCG could jack up the £18m number This is exactlywhat Whyte did
However
There are no RFC or RFCG accounts so Whytes £27.5m figure would have been difficult to validate
. CW and Close Leasing as fc holders could probably have blocked the sale to Green Ticketus could have opposed the sale and went to court which would have complicated the deal
D&P needed a sale to justify their £4m of fees
Green &Co wanted a bargain
Whyte wanted his cut
Close Leasing wanted repaid
Ticketus wanted their contract reinstated or else Whyte had to cough up
So the simplest solution all round was to move the fc to a place where it would not be forced into a court challenge and the parties could implement the split they agreed before the CVA was rejected
ie Green, CW and Close Leasing get cash
Ticketus get their contract reinstated
D&P get to argue it was the best deal possible
Surely someone in Scotland will challenge Yorkie on that photo, won’t they. Not even the MSM can stand by and watch him use sectarianism to make money, can they?
Folks,
Please can we keep NI politics out of this. I understand people finding CG’s visit there ominous for the obvious reasons, but let’s stick to that. I have no idea of the provenance of the people he was with, but I’d rather not be the host of the website that accuses someone wrongly or omits context – or that revs up a debate on the rights or wrongs of something we just won’t get agreement on.
goosygoosy @ 21:44
Are you suggesting, that the various incarnations of Sevco including TRFC need to go bust close out the deal ?
http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/a-dignified-deja-vu/#more-3153
bogsdollox says:
September 28, 2012 at 21:22
goosygoosy says:
September 28, 2012 at 20:46
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Ticketus is a different issue altogether. They bought £24.5m of STs from RFC AFTER (not before) the takeover. They paid the money to RFCG and got a contract with RFC in return which is legal since Whyte owned both cos and gave Ticketus personal gurantees that Liberty Capital would cough up if the contract failed to deliver
======================================================================
Apologies if this is going over old ground but I don’t get this bit.
The contract can only be between RFC and Ticketus – the money was legally due to RFC albeit RFCG took the cash or had it paid to them.(Its not right to say paying money to one company instead of the other because it has the same ownership is legal)
Why then would Ticketus be happy to take a guarantee from Liberty when they knew RFCG had the cash?
This is a far reaching scam where I believe many hours were put in by old and new owners to craft it. Whyte didn’t do this on his own.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
bogsdollox
I quote from what is in th public domain re the Ticketus deal Whyte had the money in a Collyer Bristow Account but he could not access it without approval from Ticketus( ie it was an escrow account)
But actully
Your last sentence summarises it beautifully
Suffice it to say that the conspirators from Ticketus MCR(D&P) Whyte and their respective lawyers thought the plan good enough for a celebration dinner at a top London restuarant
johnboy5088 says:
September 28, 2012 at 21:40
goosygoosy at 20.46:
I think you may be wrong with your chronology of the Ticketus cash coming to Rangers/Whyte.
Keith Jackson in the Daily Record (I know, I know . . . ) said he’d seen documentation that proved the Ticketus cash was in Whyte’s account BEFORE the takeover had even been completed.
========================================================
Documentation and cash are two different things – what if a firm of respected City of London lawyers produced a letter that said the dosh was in – so the transaction could proceed and that was what Keef””””””’yyyy saw?
I can’t see how CG is gaining the support of the MSM here if he is ready to bail as soon as he fills his boots. If we make the assumption as we do that the MSM want a strong successful Rangers, then are they really so daft as to be taken in by CG?
I do think he is in this to make money, but so are the MSM. The red-tops are probably seeing a dramatic reduction in circulation, due in no small part to a reaction by non Rangers fans to their handling of the RFC story. Are they really about to risk the rest of their readership by assisting Green if he is not on the level?
I think that whatever Green gets out of this deal, he plans to leave an established continuity Rangers in a better state than they were a year ago – even if not as enriched as they might be.
In other words, whatever happens, and even though he might be taking the Bears for a ride, a new insolvency event just won’t be an option for Charlie.
Share issue, scapegoat, exit – with Rangers impoverished but intact to arise in yet another New Dawn. That’s my guess.
Goosygoosy and Agrajag at 21.44. My brain is hurting trying to get my head round your post.
blackadder2 says:
September 28, 2012 at 20:59
Didn’t Charles Green say they would never play in the SPL while he is in charge, that could mean one of 2 things, firstly, he intends walking away within 2 year, or he expects there will be no SPL,
——
My initial thought on that was as reidy134 says above – Mr Charles must be thinking either no SPL within a couple of years, no Mr Charles by the time they get there, or no TRFC.
For reasons also said above, re: Champions League income, the reason which involves simply refusing to join the SPL is oot the windae. The bears, however, lap it up in a “no surrender” kind of way. Incredible.
Or … perhaps Mr Giovanni is one of Mr Charles’s investors, and has succeeded in opening a back door into the English Leagues by waving his bit of paper from 1783 or whatever it was. 🙂
Danish – a sad tale, Operation Carthage. It puts fitba conmen in context a bit. Excuse my huge Off Topic-ness. I’ve been waiting for a flying Mosquito since about when Aberdeen last won a trophy! 🙂
TSFM says:
September 28, 2012 at 22:01
A poor, unsuccessful and frustrated *Rangers bring very little to the party! 😉
campsiejoe says:
September 28, 2012 at 21:48
goosygoosy @ 21:44
Are you suggesting, that the various incarnations of Sevco including TRFC need to go bust close out the deal ?
,,,
No
What I`m saying is that legally Whytes FC could be left unredeemed indefinitely by whichever co it now hangs over just as the LBG FC over RFC was hanging over RFC from 1999 to 2011
However its in Green`s interest to clear out this FC for a couple of reasons
1 Its a switcheroo all round so a deal will have already been done between Green and Whyte
2 If Whyte doesnt get the fc paid off he is due interest on the debt at the same rate tha LBG were getting and that could be £1.5m pa
3. Green will need to exit Glasgow sharpish after the fund raising He will not be able to sustain TRFC through 2013 unless he donates perhaps £5m from the fund raisingThis will all be lost profit Perhaps he thinks he can raise £25m
.But even if he gets £10m he will hardly get enough to pay Whyte & Close Leasing never mind his Backers
September 28, 2012 at 22:01
I can’t see how CG is gaining the support of the MSM here if he is ready to bail as soon as he fills his boots. If we make the assumption as we do that the MSM want a strong successful Rangers, then are they really so daft as to be taken in by CG?
I do think he is in this to make money, but so are the MSM. The red-tops are probably seeing a dramatic reduction in circulation, due in no small part to a reaction by non Rangers fans to their handling of the RFC story. Are they really about to risk the rest of their readership by assisting Green if he is not on the level?
I think that whatever Green gets out of this deal, he plans to leave an established continuity Rangers in a better state than they were a year ago – even if not as enriched as they might be.
In other words, whatever happens, and even though he might be taking the Bears for a ride, a new insolvency event just won’t be an option for Charlie.
Share issue, scapegoat, exit – with Rangers impoverished but intact to arise in yet another New Dawn. That’s my guess.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
You assume Charlie’s pay off involves a share issue profit. He’s not there for that- he’s a Peepil rabble rouser. A share issue will fail for the same reason as the previous ones – nobody invests in a failed enterprise.
Ticketus & Whyte will get their dough. Charlie is a rentier outrider and will get his reward offshore.
TSFM @ 22:01
The Sevcophantic Media bought into the MBB without any scrutiny, and only when it was too late and the cat was out of the bag, did they change their tune
Remember the MSM have been complicit in the re-incarnation of RFC(IA) as Sevco, and are still refusing to query anything Green or his allies say
My own view, is that Sevco will suffer an insolvency event as soon as Green has managed to get his money, and that of his investors, out of the business
On the floating charge argument, a number of concepts are getting mixed up in goosygoosy’s earlier post.
SSC has a Standard security over Auchenhowie, not a Floating Charge. Close Leasing has/had an assignation in security, not a floating charge.
A Standard security is a security over a fixed asset – land and buildings. A standard security is normally discharged on the sale of land/buildings, but it doesn’t need to be if the purchaser takes on the debt. That seems to be what happened in the case of the SSC security over Auchenhowie. What’s important though is that a Standard Security is fixed to the asset – a floating charge is not.
An assignation in security is an assignation of the right to benefit from a contract, that assignation being provided in security of a debt. I’m not sure if Close Leasing’s assignation in security is still effective or not. I tend to believe not, but it’s not really of any importance to this argument. Again, what’s important is that an assignation in security relates to a specific asset (the proceeds of the catering contract). A Floating charge does not.
A Floating charge is like a net which hangs over the assets of a company. Unless and until it has crystallised, it doesn’t attach to any assets. Assets can come and go from the company. Assets which leave the company are no longer subject to the floating charge. Assets which come into the company become subject to the floating charge. If the floating charge crystallises, the “net” falls, and whatever assets the company has at that time may be caught by it.
It’s a misunderstanding therefore to talk of the old plc transferring the floating charge to other companies. That’s not how a floating charge works. A floating charge provides security over the assets from time to time of the company which granted the floating charge, nothing else.
The right to benefit from a floating charge can of course be assigned – that’s how Whyte’s company RFCG acquired the right to the floating charge in the first place. The company subject to the floating charge – i.e. the company whose assets are subject to the floating charge – can’t change however.
Further, sales of assets by the administrators of a company which has granted a floating charge are subject to specific provisions in the Insolvency Act 1986. Paras 70 and 113 of Schedule B1 govern the position, and make it clear that an administrator can sell assets out from under a floating charge, and if an administrator does so, the assets are sold unencumbered by the charge.
Accordingly, there is simply no way that the assets of a company other than RFC2012plc (formerly Rangers Football Club plc) (IA) can be subject to the old floating charge.
The floating charge still exists, but it potentially secures only what’s left of the assets of RFC2012 plc (IA) – which is basically what’s left of the money paid by Green to purchase the assets.
In any event, in RFC2012 (IA)’s case, the floating charge secures a debt of nil. There are no sums owed by RFC2012(IA) to RFCG Ltd. This has been confirmed by the Administrators, and no claim is being made by RFCG Ltd.
There never was a £27.5m debt owed by RFC2012 (IA)to RFCG Ltd. This is because it was in fact RFC 2012(IA) which contracted with Ticketus and obtained the funds from Ticketus. RFC 2012(IA) then loaned that money to RFCG Ltd. RFCG Ltd then used that loaned money to pay off the Bank debt (all of this is clear from the Ticketus court case.) If anything, an argument could be made that RFCG ltd owes RFC 2012(IA) money in terms of the loan – but of course that would be a bit of a fiction, as the loan money was used by RFCG Ltd to pay a RFC 2012(IA) debt.
In short, the floating charge is not relevant.
campsiejoe … there have been a few sparse grumblings questioning Green on one level or another over the last couple of weeks.
Not in the redtops, which tend to print his statements wholesale as a complete piece without further comment, but the Herald and Scotsman titles are sprouting bits and pieces – as well as Andrew Smith’s humourous but pointed digs in his column in the latter.
Bogsdollox at 22.00:
Here’s the quote from Jackson I’m talking about (from February):
“This time, we have all the figures and dates. We even know that the £24.4million was handed over to his lawyers, Collyer Bristow, before the takeover had been completed. In other words, he’d sold season tickets which weren’t even his to sell.”
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/rangers-in-crisis-our-man-keith-jackson-1117445
TSFM says:
September 28, 2012 at 22:01
0 1 Rate This
If we make the assumption as we do that the MSM want a strong successful Rangers, then are they really so daft as to be taken in by CG?
———
One reason why the DR was chatting with RTC on twitter could be that they want to be on the winning side. If The Sun is trying to be the new DR in cheerleading terms, and succeeding too, it’s going to look a bit daft if RFC falter again. If, on the other hand, the DR can be seen to have engaged with the main blogger who foresaw this mess they could boost their waning credibilty – especially among among blue readers. And if they can get an anonymous conversation with RTC all the better, they’ll have a free scoop, and be able to take some credit, if only by association.
the taxman cometh says:
September 28, 2012 at 17:24
Holy fook
“Everyone was in agreement that our Clubs future was looking extremely good with plans of Hotels, Cancer Centre, New Shop, New Ticket office and renovations to Edmiston Club along with Football Academies in America, Asia and widespread Global Marketing.”
————————-
Wooohoo taxman! Did you laugh as loud as I did when you read this. Are they going to build it all on a floating pitch? I bet even the RFC supporters are now worrying about this report from NI.
R.T.C no to the dilly record !!!!!
Zombie deniers
campsiejoe says:
September 28, 2012 at 22:18
My own view, is that Sevco will suffer an insolvency event as soon as Green has managed to get his money, and that of his investors, out of the business
===========================
Given that Sevco currently is Mr Green and his investors I think your prognosis is pretty much a stick on.
As and when they walk away there will be nothing left.
Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
September 28, 2012 at 21:28
‘What rules in scottish football exist that would allow Sevco to refuse entry to the SPL if they ever won the 1st division?
Do they HAVE to go up if they win the league?
Or can they refuse?’
———–
I was intrigued enough by the question to have a read at the SFL Constitution and rules, and the SPL’s Articles and the SFA Articles.
There seems to be provision in the SFL rules for clubs in the 3rd div to refuse promotion to 2nd, and clubs in 2nd to refuse promotion to 1st.
But absolutely nothing about clubs in 1st being able or not able to refuse promotion to the SPL!
So, come the day (in the year 20??) when ‘The Rangers FC Ltd’ are champions of the 1st Div and CG says ‘we will never play in the Premier League’, what happens?
angus1983 @ 22:26
Some are showing a little more gumption than they did a year ago, but on the whole they are still buying into the myth
September 28, 2012 at 20:46
StevieBC says:
September 28, 2012 at 20:18
If I have this correct: Charlie is – allegedly – attempting to deceive punters at GBP500 a pop, based on supposedly nothing more than fantastic moonbeams.
=========
The only deception involved will be self-deception, at which the fans of RFC are world class. There will be no prospectus (how could there have been?), no stock market will be involved, members of the “Rangers Family” will simply get a letter inviting them to part with multiples of £500
in exchange for shares in a private company. As simple as that.
Nothing to do with the SFA, for sure. A wholly private matter. Would the FSA get involved? I very much doubt it, unless unjustifiable claims were made about investment potential. Green is just selling worthless papers to a bunch of deluded chumps. They will fall over themselves to buy. The tears will come shortly afterwards, but who can they blame? Oh, I forgot, anyone but themselves.
Green will, of course, be in Monte Carlo by then, sipping Champagne with Whyte, and discussing their next joint venture.
=======================================================================
Why would the FSA not get involved if this is an offer to invest to the public?
Barring a few, none of the season ticket holders are currently shareholders.
campsiejoe says:
September 28, 2012 at 22:18ate This
TSFM @ 22:01
The Sevcophantic Media bought into the MBB without any scrutiny, and only when it was too late and the cat was out of the bag, did they change their tune
Remember the MSM have been complicit in the re-incarnation of RFC(IA) as Sevco, and are still refusing to query anything Green or his allies say
My own view, is that Sevco will suffer an insolvency event as soon as Green has managed to get his money, and that of his investors, out of the business
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
What if its not Green’s money? He’s just a front man.
If Mr Charles is only going to sell shares to the Rangers Family does anyone want to call Cenkos and Capita to tell them to stand down??
bogsdollox @ 22:55
For his money, read his cut
Why are the MSM backing Green?
The same reason they backed Whyte -he’s the only show in town
Without Whyte the show was over and the fat Lady sang
Green turned up at the last minute when all other parties had ran a mile
The blue knights were never serious bidders all they were engaged in
was damage limitation from a growing band of aggrieved fans with former board members
Any other bidders like Bill Ng and the American could see the level of toxicity and had reputations to protect.
Whyte and Green are your gutter level businessman but despite that the MSM couldnt challenge them as they would have been blamed for driving potential saviours of the club away
and killing it . They have backed them 95% ,the 5% of criticism will be used to claim they were asking the questions regards their intent should it all go mammaries up ,
This is what they did with Whyte ,this is what they’ll do with Green
As for Paulmac2s question as to why now for the DR offer for a face to face
theres a similair answer
RTC is and always has been the only show in town
the DR know he is going to be proved right and want a free ride on his coat tails
They cannot discredit him but I have know doubt they would claim that they revealed all first
but then .they are gutter level journalists
Whyte Green and the Daily Record a menage a trois from the gutter
StevieBC says:
September 28, 2012 at 20:18
Just thinking aloud.
———————–
Stevie, they can’t all be stupid. They’re going to think “this guy was great at the start but he must be bonkers if he thinks we believe this nonesense”
nonsense
johnboy5088 says:
September 28, 2012 at 22:30ate This
Bogsdollox at 22.00:
Here’s the quote from Jackson I’m talking about (from February):
“This time, we have all the figures and dates. We even know that the £24.4million was handed over to his lawyers, Collyer Bristow, before the takeover had been completed. In other words, he’d sold season tickets which weren’t even his to sell.”
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/rangers-in-crisis-our-man-keith-jackson-1117445
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
They “even know that £24.4M was handed over to his lawyers” isn’t this the basis for the court case being pursued by Rangers against Colleyer Bristow and Gary Withey ie. false representation was made ad to the depositing of the funds?
Interesting to note that article mentions various other MSM titles and presstitutes – why does the “above reproach” DR need to drag competitor titles into the fray – first rule of journalism – never mention the opposition by name even if you are slagging them off – people will know who you mean.
1. TSFM says:
September 28, 2012 at 22:01
I can’t see how CG is gaining the support of the MSM here if he is ready to bail as soon as he fills his boots. If we make the assumption as we do that the MSM want a strong successful Rangers, then are they really so daft as to be taken in by CG?
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
TSFM
1 Crooks have no moral compass
2 They live from day to day. They never worry about tomorrow. They worry about today
3 They repeat behaviour that worked successfully in the past.They are creatures of habit
4 They minimise risk wherever possible
6 They trust nobody. They are wary of their dearest ”friends” and temporary “partners”
,,,,,,,,
How many of these principles apply to the Red Tops, Football Phone Ins, SFA Officials ?
Does this explain why decent people despise them?
We are all adults, read it for yourself and decide
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
As you are aware R.T.I.D.N.I invited Rangers F.C – C.E.O Charles Green over to Northern Ireland for a meeting with ourselves and Supporters Clubs to meet with the support.
Supporting Charles Green in his visit were Imran Ahmed and 2 other invited guests.
First thing on the Agenda was a short meeting with ourselves as a group which included myself, Gary Lenaghan, Jim Wilson and Trevor Maxwell.
Charles thanked us for the outstanding work that we had undertaken in helping to raise funds for the fighting fund.
We then moved Charles and guests to lunch with Senior representatives of Linfield F.C, which included discussions for a return match between Rangers and Linfield at Ibrox.
In attendance were Rangers Reps, Linfield Reps, and R.T.I.D.N.I Reps, Myself, Gary Lenagahan, Jim Wilson, Graeme Barr, Mark Rice and Trevor Maxwell.
A number of dates have been mooted and will be given out after further discussions.
A meeting was then planned in Castle Buildings with First Minister Of Northern Ireland Peter Robinson.
In attendance at an introductory meeting with The First Minister were Charles Green and guests, R.T.I.D.N.I Committee members, Myself, Gary Lenaghan, Jim Wilson and Sammy Douglas.
The purpose of this meeting was to explain to The First Minister, the disgraceful way that Politicians in Scotland have shown absolutely NO support for Rangers Football Club.
The words that Mr Green used were “If it was a Pie company going bust with the loss of Revenue to the local Economy and Job losses, Scottish M.Ps and Government Ministers would be bending over backwards to help”
Political backing for investment i.e Shops in Northern Ireland was also brought to the table and discussed,and after a lenghty discussion programme Mr Green informed us that he was extremely happy with the meeting and had found it very productive.
Mr Green and Peter Robinson then gave interviews to U.T.V Live.
Next stop was to to Stormont buildings where Mr Green and ourselves had a meeting with Ulster Unionist Party Leader Mike Nesbitt and M.L.A Danny Kennedy.
This was also a very Productive meeting.
R.T.I.D.N.I and guests then headed to The Hilton, Templepatrick to meet other Reps from Rangers Clubs throughout Northern Ireland.
After thanking everyone for attending, I explained our future plans for R.T.I.D.N.I.
This included getting ALL Clubs, Fan Groups and Fans in Northern Ireland to work together for a N.A.R.S.A type Convention in Northern Ireland.
First thing on the Agenda after introductions and thanks for Support etc, was for Mr Green and Imran to give a Presentation on current affairs at the Club and their outlook for the future.
Everyone was in agreement that our Clubs future was looking extremely good with plans of Hotels, Cancer Centre, New Shop, New Ticket office and renovations to Edmiston Club along with Football Academies in America, Asia and widespread Global Marketing.
A few key points where made by Charles Green before a Q&A, which had to be shortened due to time.
Key Points
1: Charles Green stated quite categorically that although it was not ALL Clubs in the S.P.L that he had a problem with, his main problem was with The Leadership and running of the S.P.L.
He said the Agenda from the S.P.L against Rangers F.C and their fans and their constant attacks upon our Club will not be forgotten.
He then stated that whilst things are the way they are, the onslaught continues AND as long as he is C.E.O of Rangers F.C, Rangers will NEVER play in the S.P.L again.
This was met with a round of applause from the Audience.
2:Charles then brought up the question of Rangers Shares.
He explained that Rangers Shares will ONLY be available Direct from Rangers F.C.
They will be sold at first to Rangers Fans and Rangers Fans only, as in Season Ticket Holders registered Supporters Clubs and Members of the Rangers Family.
No other option for buying shares will be available.
A shortened Q&A then took place and was as follows.
Q1: What is happening about the money that is owed to Rangers by the S.P.L etc ?
C.G: “The S.P.L are refusing to hand what is due to Rangers and the fight against these disgraceful decisions was still ongoing”
Q2: Would Rangers Consider putting a Team back into the N.I Milk Cup ?
C.G: “This had already been raised by the Youth Team Coach and would definitely be looked at in the future”
Q3: Would Rangers consider bringing out an Orange Top ?
C.G: “Yes, they have a number of designs and are coming near agreement with Adidas” (my bold print)
Q4: Will you continue with the fight against all Rangers enemies out there as you have been doing ?
C.G: “Absolutely and with everything in my body, I wasnt a Rangers Supporter when I came here but I am Now”
Q5: Would Rangers Consider flying the 4 Home Nations Flags alongside the Flags already above Ibrox ?
C.G “I dont see why Not as the contribution and dedication of Rangers Fans throughout the U.K and the world is second to none and should be recognised”
After a massive thanks to Mr Green from myself on behalf of the Committee, 6yr Old Rangers Season Ticket Holder Johua Wilson, made a Presentation of a Crystal Clock with the words, ”To Charles Green, from R.T.I.D.N.I.”
Mr Green then stayed behind to sign Autographs and pose for photos before retiring to bed.
We met up with Charles Green today, Fri 28th and took him into Belfast City Centre to look at a proposed building to open a New Rangers Store.
Greg Mcafee had arranged a number of premises for Mr Green to look at and hopefully this will be concluded soon.
We then run Mr Green and guests to the Airport and thanked them for visiting Northern Ireland.
All in all we found Mr Green to be very honest and upfront and along with all the other Supporters thought his plans were excellent.
Therefore on behalf of Myself and R.T.I.D.N.I We would like to give our FULL backing to Mr Green and his plans for Rangers F.C.
WE Support fully, his stance with regards to the hatred towards our club and the Agenda by The S.P.L/S.F.A and fully back him every step of the way in his fight against the haters of Rangers F.C and their Fans.
We also Support fully the plans on the way forward for Rangers F.C and we would urge ALL Fans, Fan Groups Clubs etc etc to Support The Share Scheme (I.P.O) which will be put forward by Rangers F.C. and to buy Shares when available.
R.T.I.D.N.I has taken great steps and have worked tirelessly to get the Opportunity of actually getting a Rangers C.E.O to come to Northern Ireland, something that has never been done before by ANYBODY.
Mr Green was so impressed that he has promised to visit us again, such is the connections that are there.
I would like to thank Everyone involved, from Ourselves, Friends in Scotland, The Leaders of both Unionist Parties and eveyone who helped make this happen.
We believe that Mr Green is the real deal and has the Full Backing of R.T.I.D.N.I and we would urge ALL fans to do the same.
We would also urge ALL Northern Ireland Fans, Groups and Clubs to join with us to form a new gouping more representative of N.I. Rangers Fans to not only have a big say at Rangers, but to organise a good convention every year.
Together We Are Better !!
Thomas Mathers.
Chairman
R.T.I.D.N.
Re the expected statement from the SFA, any clues to what it was to be about?
http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/a-rapid-restructuring/#more-3167
Phil McG is reporting that he is being told of new discussions around league re-structuring.
Perhaps this explains the non-appearence of the SFA statement?
goosygoosy says:
September 28, 2012 at 23:26 (Edit)
How many of these principles apply to the Red Tops, Football Phone Ins, SFA Officials ?
Does this explain why decent people despise them?
_____________________________________________________________________
I wouldn’t argue with the lack of moral compass argument Goosy, it’s just that I can’t bring myself to believe that they (MSM/SPL/SFA) are in bed with Green if they are not satisfied that he is safeguarding Rangers in the longer term.
There’s got to be something in this for them, and I imagine that if they thought he was just an asset stripper, they’d be campaigning to get rid.
I know they were conned by Whyte, but I think everyone is a little more suspicious these days (apart from the wishful thinkers amongst the Rangers support) of anything that moves in this play.
I am coming round to the view that Green cast in the role of destroyer of Rangers attracts the wishful thinkers in the non-Rangers camp as well. Time will tell of course, but given the MSM and the SFA/SPL contortions over the summer in an attempt to ensure that RFC did not die, it seems hard to imagine that they would letting Green walk all over them if they thought he was gonna kill them off.
duplesis says:
September 28, 2012 at 22:21
,,,,,,,,,,,,,
duplesis
Thank you for that post
My point remains
The Deal between Green and D&P needed the consent of the FC holders Whyte and Close Leasing
They exacted a price for this consent and negotiated a deal with Green and D&P. Whytes consent needed to resolve theTicketus issue
Their starting price for these negotiations reflected their respective FC claims on RFC(IA) which were as claimed unless resolved in court
The end result will be a situation where Whyte and Close Leasing are paid off by Green and Ticketus get paid longer term
Time will tell
One of the inconvenient things about the anonymity attached to many of us on blogs is that the provenance of information is sometimes very difficult to come by. My apologies then for my scepticism on some information I received tonight.
The information came from a person who says (s)he was the Charity expert often mentioned in posts by Corsica on RTC. The poster went on to say that sadly, Corsica had passed away six weeks ago after a battle with cancer.
If this is true then it is very sad indeed. If anyone can confirm or refute this, I would appreciate it.
The message contained some other information which I am currently trying to verify before sharing, so bear with me on that.
If the post was a hoax then my apologies.
There seems to be a few misconceptions kicking around that Whyte’s Floating Charge and/or Ticketus’s “investment” have carried over to Sevco. I’m afraid this cannot be the case.
A floating charge is basically a creditor’s security on the assets of a company up to a certain amount, and it crystallises in the event of liquidation. A key benefit is that it allows the company to buy and sell assets (I.e trade) and floats over those assets which obviously change over the course of time, unlike a fixed charge which is fixed against a specific asset that cannot be disposed of without the express permission of the creditor.
What this means in practice is that when RFC oldco finally enter liquidation, the charge crystalises at that time, and the FC holder only has claim over its then current assets being £5m or less in cash and little else. NOT Ibrox and not Murray Park as these have been sold to Sevco. The FC holder has no recourse over these assets unless the liquidator is willing and able to prove that Malfeasance took place regarding the asset sale to Sevco. It would likely be the indemnity insurers of Duff and Phelps who would pay for that.
Craig Whyte might consider £5m a decent pay day for his trouble, but his charge will likely be contested by BDO as his position as creditor is doubtful. Ticketus on the other hand were unsecured creditors of Oldco but not charge holders and have no further claim over Oldco, let alone Sevco, but do have personal guarantees from Whyte – for whatever they are worth.
Basically, Sevco are under no threat from the crystallisation of Whyte’s floating charge, if he chooses to make a claim, and Ticketus are completely out of the ball park.
A draft SFA statement was agreed after all day discussions last Monday and scheduled for publication the following day at noon.
I have a copy of the statement and fully understand why SFA lawyers on Tuesday morning strongly advised against releasing the document.
There are now no plans to release an alternative statement.
However, it has been agreed that the Nimmo Smith Tribunal will not now sit: there are agreements in place that now obviate it.
And it will be the last “judicial” inquiry called for and paid for by the SFA.
They are moving to bring this all back in-house.
Whyte Knight ? Blue Knights ?
Red Tops, Alright !
Charles Green, Bomber Brown,
We’re the only show in town,
Yellow Belly SFA,
Statement coming any day,
Orange Top,
Fool, Stop !
Johnboy75 (no relation!)
Your summation is only relevant if Whyte (or his “sponsor”) and Ticketus (or their financers) are not the controlling parties behind Sevco in all its apparent, and yet to be discovered, forms.
Very sad news about Corsica if true.
I hope the news about Corsica is not accurate.
If it is, I shall feel as if I had lost a friend.I looked forward to his posts and enjoyed them immensely. And he must have had a great degree of courage.
May his soul and the souls of all the departed, rest in peace. And may his family and friends be comforted in their grief.
rab says:
September 29, 2012 at 01:08
I hope the TD I see on your post re corsica is a negative re his possible departure from our presence.
Humble Pie says:
September 29, 2012 at 00:32
‘…..Yellow Belly SFA,
Statement coming any day,
Orange Top,
Fool, Stop !…….’
—
To the tune of ‘we didn’t set the world on fire…’?
Very good!.
There has been a lot of discussion over the last few days about the performance(or lack of) of Motherwell at Ibrox on Wednesday. I thought it was a spirited performance by Rangers Utd, which judging by the last half hour, they deserved to win. I don’t think Motherwell lay down, although it looked like it, but was more akin to the usual kind of shocks you get in the early stages of that cup. Maybe they started believing their own hype and thought that they were better than they really were. I tend to think that it was more a stylistic kind of thing! Now, bear with me and I’ll try and explain, as I know the word ‘stylistic’ , Rangers and Motherwell, don’t normally gel!
For the older generation, the analogy I’ll use will make perfect sense, so ask your dad(or grandad!). In the 1970’s, the greatest boxer of all time, Muhammed Ali, was fighting against fantastic opponents, whose skills and attributes different greatly from fighter to fighter. He fought, won and lost against Joe Frazier, Ken Norton and George Foreman, each of whom presented different problems. Against Frazier and Norton, Ali had major problems because of their direct, tough style of non-stop pressurising boxing. Conversely, when Frazier and Norton faced Foreman, both were destroyed by the brute force and power of the man. Ali struggles against Frazier and Norton, Foreman destroys them; only one winner! No, because styles makes fights. Foreman was perfect for Ali, and he ruthlessly exposed Foreman’s shortcomings as a fighter. In a round about way, this leads me back to my assertion that Motherwell didn’t lie down, but were and will always be a victim of ‘styles’. The Rangers way of playing football is ideal for playing against Motherwell. Aggressive, no nonsence defence, bypass midfield, high balls, hard tackling non-creative midfielders, all negate what Motherwell have and leads to either deadlock, funny refereeing decisions or capitulation. Against Celtic, the opposite is true. The midfield like to try and play football, which is often subdued by ‘tough but fair tackling’, the defence try and play out but are caught out by the ‘aggression’ and workrate of the strikers, and they are more likely to cause and upset against an attacking team’s style of play than a team that grinds.
Quickly, on an other issue, I am absolutely disgusted at the reports coming from the meeting that Greene has attended in Belfast. I have lived in the West of Scotland all through the seventies till present, and have never known the atmosphere and hatred been generated over the last two years to have been so bad. I live near the ‘border’ towns of Coatbridge and Airdie, and the last thing these places need is a ramped up atmosphere of ‘Loyalism v Republicanism’. It has always existed between them, but the last thing we need is an institution like Rangers, whether you like them or not, trying to even more identify with extremist groups in order to try and affect and influence over the coming months and years the event of a legitimate debate on the future of Scotland as a sovereign nation or a Union partner
Disturbing news, if true, of Chuckles cosying up to the Vanguard Bears. I have had the misfortune of running in to this outfit and you would have to go a long way to find a more intimidating bunch. If Chuckles has this mob targeted as potential ‘investors’, he better ca’ canny. I would imagine they would not take too kindly to being ripped of and they have a very long reach.
Corsica. Very sad news.
john clarke 01:49
a line from that song that sums up everything with RTC and TSFM is:
We didn’t start the fire No we didn’t light it But we tried to fight
However I would add that we ( and I don’t really include myself in that although I’d like to think I’m some way part of this great team) didn’t try to fight it we actually beat it or we just in some ways made life difficult for the bully.
John, I think you mean “We Didn’t Start the Fire.”
Which reminds me of an old one:
Who led the Pedants’ Revolt?
Which Tyler.
@goosygoosy at 23:44
It remains possible of course that Whyte or Ticketus are somewhere in the background, but D&P didn’t need the consent of the floating charge holder to transfer the assets from RFC2012(IA) – para 70 and 113 of schedule B1 give them that power.
The FC holder could’ve challenged such a sale/transfer in the court by virtue of para 74 (from memory) but didn’t.
Start by doing what’s necessary; then do what’s possible; and suddenly you are doing the impossible.
Francis of Assisi
Was this written for the Blogger bampots?
I think that we are about to see very serious criminal charges and that is the reason that lots of other processes have been arrested. It’s not that I’m in the know but it’s the only explanation for the way things are playing out.
David Murray, EBT’s,
Or where these Campbell Ogilvie’s ?
Jabba ? Chico ? MSM ?
Why did we listen to them ?
Close Brothers, Ticketus,
Took the piss right out of us
Walter Smith and Martin Bain
Here we bloody go again.
cochise55 says:
September 29, 2012 at 02:17
If there isn’t it will expose how bad things really are
Agrajag says:
September 28, 2012 at 23:26
“Q1: What is happening about the money that is owed to Rangers by the S.P.L etc ?
C.G: “The S.P.L are refusing to hand what is due to Rangers and the fight against these disgraceful decisions was still ongoing””
The irony and sheer rank hypocrisy of that Q&A encapsulates everything that is wrong with TRFC and it’s blinkered supporters.
If the money is owed to TRFC why is the debt not owed by TRFC?
Jim Delahunt & Mark Guidi referred to OfCom for incitement to violence, and Radio Clyde’s initial defence:
http://www.btinternet.com/~k.miller18/SSBOfCom.html
Note that Radio Clyde’s Managing Director does not dispute that Mark Guidi said (if titles are stripped ): “The Rangers fan’s will be up in arms and I hope it’ll kick off.”
Full 30 second audio rip here:
http://www.btinternet.com/~k.miller18/ssb18th.mp3
Email for the boss of Radio Clyde is:
Graham.Bryce@bauermedia.co.uk
These guys do not now dispute that Mark Guidi, a week ago, said that if the Nimmo Smith judicial inquiry goes against Rangers, “I hope it’ll kick off”.
If you don’t want to go to Mr Bryce, OfCom will want to hear from you.
Don’t put up with this. I assure you that here in England we wouldn’t dream of taking this nonsense.
If the biggest radio station in London, Capital, broadcast that “if they find Spurs guilty of breaking rules North London will kick off and there will be civil war on the streets of Tottenham” there wld be calls for Capital FM to be closed down.
Don’t take this in the West of Scotland
ah need to o to my bed, Im reading comments when I wak from my nappinhg that I wrote and can’t recall writting, the demon drink. niti niti,,,zzzzzzzzzzz
final comment, who cares about Guidi, ge it a rest. if the twat said it big deal, it didn’t coz mass rioting in the streets that night did it? so why let it bother you. td me all you want. What gets me really is supporters who complain to police about gestures made by players when they have been calling the same obscene names before during and after the game.
briggsbhoy says:
September 29, 2012 at 03:07
0 0 Rate This
final comment, who cares about Guidi, ge it a rest. if the twat said it big deal, it didn’t coz mass rioting in the streets that night did it? so why let it bother you. td me all you want. What gets me really is supporters who complain to police about gestures made by players when they have been calling the same obscene names before during and after the game.
———————————
Exactly why the MSM will rest easy in their beds tonight: guys like you saying “cut ’em some rabble rousing/sectarian slack”.
From down here in England, attitudes like yours seem like something out of a weird football-based Time Team.
briggsbhoy says:
September 29, 2012 at 02:04
‘..We didn’t start the fire ..’
——
I knew as I typed that I was mis-remembering the lyric! But you knew what I meant.
Aye, indeed.This blog and its contributors, by their general readiness and ability to
a) stick to an attempt to unearth fact
b) to air views and opinions related to facts
c) to offer theories and speculations based on the facts as known
and to do this in a generally rational and usually respectful and courteous way,
have, in my opinion, helped bring about a sea-change in Scottish Football as significant in its own way as that brought about by Rosa Parks in American politics.
We now see that
a) the general run of football clubs and supporters, (even those in the greater Glasgow conurbation area),
b) some of the more courageous sports hacks,
c) some people in the DR( now that they have seen how things are going), who are desperately trying to re-position themselves,
have accepted or are beginning to accept, that the wrongdoing of the ‘Glasgow Rangers- as- was’ cannot be defended, AND that the frankly despicable and ridiculous and insulting conduct of the ‘Rangers- as -( illegitimately-) is’, can no longer be condoned, excused, or accepted.
As a Celtic supporter who still feels a rage at that b.stard Kelly and Co who nearly killed my club,
I have a deal of sympathy/empathy with those supporters of RFC who do not glory in being up to their knees in anything whatsoever.
But I ask, where they hell were they when they allowed SDM and CW to stitch them up, and where are they now when CG is about to ravish the sewn-up corpse?