Good Morning,
In the last week, we have seen a number of strange occurrences in Scottish Football, which if taken together might just point to a very different land than the one we were lead to believe we live in just two short years ago.
First of all there was the report from a firm of well known accountants which pronounced that a significant number of Scottish Football Clubs had, in fact, sold more season tickets for this coming season than they had in the course of the last several years.
Then we had the spectacle of the National team travelling to Wembley and playing very well AND being cheered on by a very large travelling support who appear to have been full of fun and who acquitted themselves well in the big smoke.
This morning I read that today’s match at Pittodrie is a sell out — with the old stadium being packed to the rafters for the visit of Celtic. This is the first time that Aberdeen have been able to sell out the fixture for some 6 years!
Not only that, various Celtic supporting websites have lead with articles saying that the return of a strong Aberdeen and Dundee United are to be welcomed– in fact not only welcomed but positively wished for.
In contrast, stories abound about the in fighting on the Ibrox Board. There are surreptitious share dealings and all sorts of company jockeying being deployed by the rival factions who are trying to gain control of The Rangers. Further, there is the suggestion from some well informed parties that not only will Ibrox and the Albion be sold and leased back to the club to generate much needed immediate cash, but that Murray Park has been sold off completely and will no longer be available to The Rangers for any purpose whatsoever!
Clearly, there are big troubles at the club which will not assist in the stated intention of rising to the very top in Scottish Football.
In between all of this, the debate goes on about Campbell Ogilvie, Press manipulation, the correspondence between Media House and the SFA, and between The SFA and Ibrox re the relationship between Charlie Green and Craig Whyte and so on.
Standing with my business hat on, I looked at all of this and wondered what it all meant, and pretty quickly reached the conclusion that we are now in a time of supreme opportunity for some of the clubs in Scottish Football—- particularly Aberdeen FC.
There is a view abroad, that in the absence of the “Strong Rangers” that Celtic Football Club will win the SPFL title for almost evermore — or at least until they are toppled from the top spot by the rise of a strong Rangers club somewhere towards the end of this decade or early in the next– because we are assured that they will be back– in one form or another– in a rather Arnold Schwarzenegger like fashion.
That return or initial rise if you like– its timing and its manner— is dependent on a number of things– not least the exit strategy of Charlie Green and his cohorts.
If it is true that The Rangers are going to part company with Ibrox and the Albion, that they have taken on a loan of funds which attract a rate of interest that amounts to 15% per annum, and that there are set figures for buying the old ( and decaying ) stadium back any time soon, and that they have yet again hawked the season ticket money, then the already flawed Ibrox business plan is burdened even more by interest and rent payments of an additional £3M per annum and rising!
It should also be noted that the accounts for old co from the mid naughties onwards boasted that season ticket sales, merchandising, corporate hospitality and so on had reached unprecedented levels—- but—- the club still did not make an operating profit without strange internals transactions such as the repurchase of media rights which added £15M on to the P&L’s AND the sale of Jean Alain Boomsong!
Accordingly, the current position will not make for good financial reading.
So– let’s presume that in the current climate Celtic are out of sight and will always be champions for ever and a day. What do the rest of the clubs say in the absence of the Ibrox club without whom they have been told they will perish?
Well, If I were in charge of Aberdeen FC I would look out across a city with an inherent population of some 220,000 souls sitting in a county which takes the population up by another 40,000 or so. I would note that the compact city also houses two universities and a number of colleges — all of which attract visitors to the city— and that its position as the oil capital of Europe also draws in a substantial number of itinerant workers.
Further, personal knowledge shows that many who studied at Aberdeen University or Robert Gordon’s in the 80’s left the city as Aberdeen FC fans and no matter where they have ended up in life they still make the journey back to Pittodrie when they can– especially in good times!
Alas, however, Aberdeen has not enjoyed ” Good Times” of late— in fact not really since ……….. the arrival of David Murray at Ibrox!
If you cast your mind back to the pre Murray era, Aberdeen were a force not only in Scotland but Europe as the recent nostalgia re Gothenburg has reminded us.
The city has an economic micro climate which suggests that it can ride economic hardship better than most and so all things considered this current period provides a great opportunity for the Dons.
Unlike Dundee United, Hearts, and Hibs, Aberdeen FC sits in a large one team conurbation and should be on the doorstep of a populace which can fill Pittodrie every single week …… IF that fan base can be motivated.
And there lies the rub– how do you get a notoriously fickle fan base out of the armchair and into the stadium?
The late Bob Crampsey once described Pittodrie by saying ” And there are the masses of Aberdeen fans, masquerading as rows and rows of Empty seats!” yet in their heydey an Aberdeen crowd on a visit to Glasgow were among the noisiest– and to this football fans eyes — the scariest ( in a good sense ) supports to be seen.
Well, at this juncture, Derek McInnes and team need only look at every other football club in the land ( bar Celtic ) and determine that come next May those others will be below them in the league. If Aberdeen maintain a strong league run keeping everyone behind them then there is the possibility of a huge revenue swing in favour of the Dons– such a swing that would put them in an even stronger position for the following year.
Further, Aberdeen are a European name. Perhaps a European name from yesteryear and not the recent past, but the pedigree is there and as such there will be those who remember the heady European Nights both home and away. Reviving those memories and that reputation– at least to an extent– is not beyond the club, and with no disrespect to Motherwell and St Johnstone both of whom are liable to lose key players or even a manager between seasons, Aberdeen may just be of a size to consolidate each year rather than scramble to maintain the momentum of one good season which comes along every now and then.
Financial management and football rewards can go hand in hand when combined properly, and of all the clubs in Scotland who can benefit from a level playing field in terms of proper football governance, Aberdeen FC are uniquely placed in my opinion.
That is not so say that The Arabs, or the Hibees or anyone else cannot benefit– on the contrary— but the Dons are the most obvious candidates in terms of potential structure to really motor forward and regain a by gone status.
Such a situation, and the recognition of that potential, should be borne in mind by all at Celtic Football Club, as last year they struggled for a period in the league while they concentrated on their European exploits. If Celtic want to go further and further in Europe ( and why shouldn’t they ) they will have to be wary of any club which is capable of reigniting its fortunes from a lowly position or a position of having to look back at glory and potential glory rather than looking forward.
Further, with the way things are being organised at Ibrox, there is absolutely no guarantee ( some would say likelihood ) that an eventual challenge to a perceived dominance by Celtic will come from that quarter, and life in the top flight for any returning Rangers could prove very difficult if the likes of Aberdeen get their act together and start to produce the type of home grown team of old.
For now, I sense a degree of optimism about the Dons– not just on the playing front either. They have a fan base, they have a business model and a good young manager, and any comparative business exercise must conclude that they have every chance of rising above most of their rivals in the league, in terms of revenue, in terms of brand development and business expansion.
If I were an Aberdeen fan I would like to think positive and be ambitious in this climate, whilst at the same time casting an eye back to the days when they were top of the tree.
As one Aberdeen supporting ( but now Edinburgh based ) friend put it to me:
” Ah, those were the days my friend, those were the days……………”
If I was any of the trialists at rangers I think I would be over at Hampden on Monday just to make sure my regisration docs had not fell into the big shredder at Ibrox ,you just never know these days,after all a time frame has got to be adhered to and there will be no allowance for docs that are missing,will there!!!
Madbhoy24941 says:
August 30, 2013 at 11:43 am
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I see in the last days some posters raising the old issue of the photos some newspapers use to accompany a story, it has been obvious to me over that last years that this trait is actually getting worse and more calculated.
And just as I was thinking about this I received an email with the latest STV report that shows a very positive story about how the rest of Scottish football will also benefit (1.5m) from Celtic’s progression to The Champions League, the picture attached to this is Anthony Stokes looking angry and shouting at Chris Commons.
I am not even going to ask why anymore, I think I know the answer so I will just continue to ridicule them at every opportunity.
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Another transparent example that sticks in the memory was the bust up between Lennon and McCoist on the touchline at Celtic Park in March 2011. Images of an angry Lennon thrusting his finger in the face of a passive McCoist were widely circulated in association with the story.
Funnily enough the photo at the link below hardly appeared anywhere in the Scottish media for some unaccountable reason and only surfaced days later after the agenda had already been set. Even now a google image search of “mccoist lennon bust up” returns multiple versions of the Lennon finger wagging image and only one of McCoist in full flow.
http://www.sceala.com/phpBB2/irish-forums-25348.html
I see leggo has had a right go at JI today and finishes it with a non-PC and more notebook size reference to Irvine’s lack of (media) stature: ‘Jack Irvine is a deeply unpleasant wee man. In fact, therein may lie the clue to him. Wee Man Syndrome! For Jack Irvine is more Friar Tuck than Malcolm Tucker.’
leggo’s piece is a reasonable read – which means another hand was probably involved – but I seem to remember a CF email which linked a leggo blog to origins in Media House or am I just getting forgetful in my old age rather like the auld inky ❓
FIFA says:
August 30, 2013 at 2:42 pm
If I was any of the trialists at rangers I think I would be over at Hampden on Monday just to make sure my regisration docs had not fell into the big shredder at Ibrox ,you just never know these days,after all a time frame has got to be adhered to and there will be no allowance for docs that are missing,will there!!!
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Depends on Bryson’s interpretation 🙄
In the CF released management accounts there is the following.
——————————————————————————————————————-
Cash flow
Closing Cash for the period was £21.2m following the Share Placing and Issue during December. Cash receipts relating to Shares were a Gross 21.2m before issue costs. Total Share Capital income issued to date is £35.2m less Share issues costs of £3.6m.
——————————————————————————————————————–
Can anyone with the relevant expertise confrim if I am right in saying that, with all the pre IPO investors and then the placings and IPO they took in £31.6m?
Added to that is the income forecast for end of the 2012/2013 season
Total Ticket Revenue £11,396,000
Hospitality Revenue £1,731,000
So without the sponsorship, tv money etc that equals £44.7m of income
However the forecast for the end of the season gives us cash in the bank of
£15,628 or £13,983 (Net)
On that basis did they spent around £30m last year and if the cash in bank is less that £15-14m then did they spend even more?
Now certain one-off expenditure will no longer be required but all in all thats a hefty chunk.
Not had time to see where it all went.
All comments and corrections welcomed.
ecobhoy says:
August 30, 2013 at 2:52 pm
Even Ian Black would not bet on that piece being written by old stickle bricks himself
McCoists view of the Celtic CL draw coming up soon on Sky Sports News
After 4 we will hear of the views of the Stranraer manager on the draw and after 5pm it’s the turn of the Albion Rovers manager. By Wednesday we should have got through the view of all 41 Scottish teams on the Celtic draw
All I can say is, thank goodness for the CL !
The draw has given me – and I’m sure many others – a real boost, and can’t wait for the games.
…and in line with the TSFM ethos, I’m not talking about one club’s fans – but about all, [well maybe the majority 😉 ], of Scottish football fans.
‘At the end of the day’, all I want to see is quality football played by quality teams and players.
The CL draw should excite anyone in Scotland who is even remotely interested in football.
[Even those who perhaps don’t like Celtic will be watching to cheer on the opposition !]
And I was pleasantly surprised last season with the amount of media coverage that Celtic got over here for beating the mighty Barca. The ‘Group of Death’ likewise should be a further boost for Scottish football. 🙄
Rangers, Airdrie, Clydebank and Third Lanark are in the real Group of Death
andygraham.66 says:
August 30, 2013 at 3:38 pm
19 0 Rate This
Rangers, Airdrie, Clydebank and Third Lanark are in the real Group of Death
==========================================
Except of course, Clydebank are not actually dead – just living incognito in North Lanarkshire
I always suspected that a sports hack sometimes wrote the Leggo blog – well the lucid articles anyway.
Today’s article seems to have been written in an emotional manner, by someone who clearly despises Jack Irvine…and I ‘bet’ this person would refuse to speak to Irvine – even if they both now worked for the same club…
======================
“…Jack Irvine, who is, of course also employed as a spin doctor by Rangers director James Easdale and his convicted fraudster of a brother, Sandy. Acting for the Easdales is just about his level
In fact, Jack Irvine is a man who is dramatically out of his time and whose gutter threats, while sinister, are also laughable…Has he no idea of the changed and continually changing culture of relative restraint of tabloid newspapers…Does he really think that his thinly veiled threats of a sleaze campaign will work? Has Irvine got no idea just how tabloids work nowadays?
Apparently not!…”
http://spfl.co.uk/clubs/airdrieonians/
http://companycheck.co.uk/company/SC042250/AIRDRIEONIANS-FC-LTD
If Airdrieonians FC were founded in 2002 (as per the SPFL website) why have they listed the 2nd Division Title in 1975/76. Of course we all know that Airdrieonians were founded in 1965 as Clydebank FC, changed their name to Airdrie United FC in 2002; but only became Airdrieonians FC about a month ago.
As they have managed to get the honours section correct, why oh why have the SPFL mistakenly recorded the “founded” date as 2002?
If they can make a mistake with one club…
Best check the honours section on the other clubs’ pages, just in case….
😎
From the Andy Newport article on Sandy Easdale in the Scotsman;
Green was the man who led the consortium which purchased the business and assets of Rangers for £5.5million last summer, after the club was consigned to liquidation.
He owned 714,285 shares in the former Scottish champions – around 7.7% of the total shareholding.
The rest – described as a “small amount” – are due to go to Isle of Man-based investment firm Laxey Partners following a deal struck in June.
……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..
But my understanding is that Green owned some 5 Million shares… and that the 714,285 shares are committed to Laxey (from Green’s shareholding) to compensate Laxey for a depressed/distressed share price.
Have I got this wrong?…. or is the Scotsman article just complete cobblers?
There are some 65 Million shares in issue. The IPO agreement authorises the issue of up to 100 Million shares. How on earth can 714,285 shares represent 7.7% of the total shareholding?
Glad I don’t rely on the Scottish Mainstream Media for my information.
Babylon Beachboy says:
August 30, 2013 at 5:10 pm
Have I got this wrong?…. or is the Scotsman article just complete cobblers? = No and Yes!
He’s even managed to get it right that Rangers, the Club, were consigned to liquidation; then get’s it wrong by saying that they (TRFC) are former Scottish champions – they’re not, they are the current SFL3 Champions, no more, no less!
ecobhoy says:
August 30, 2013 at 2:25 pm
“If you look at more or less anything Mather is involved in my ‘take’ is that he wants to be Mr Teflon”
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I had been tempted to make an unflattering comment on Maither’s slicked back greasy hairstyle that accompanied his unshaven appearance in today’s PR piece. Do Teflon manufacture hair products?
chancer67 says:
August 30, 2013 at 2:25 pm
“Posters on RM claiming McMurdo knows the identity of CF, intresting or is he flying a kite?”
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A low pressure over Iceland is producing windy conditions over Northern Britain.
Is there a difference between ‘buying’ shares and ‘controlling’ shares? Easdale believes he now controls CG’s shares, is this a transfer of proxy or has yer actual cash money changed hands?
No doubt if there is one controlling mind at Ibrox this will allow for remedial work and substantial investment from the principal owners. Ally, yer joab’s safe!!!!!!
Re-the Mather article in the Herald. If not already doing so, I believe fans of all other Scottish clubs should now be even more sceptical of any more positive articles, and indeed negative articles, about Celtic in particular and Scottish football in general.
Like a couple of other posters earlier, I also thought the £17m mentioned twice in the RFC* accounts related to the same thing i.e. the property revaluation. Others are taking the twice mentioned £17m to be different items of legal creative accounting. Can anyone confirm definitively one way or the other.
If indeed £34m has been magicked up through creative accounting, where does that leave the real loss situation in the accounting period?
nawlite says:
August 30, 2013 at 6:15 pm
==============================
All depends if/when they issue accounts, despite the free advertising feature today.
I recently pledged to the Foundation of Hearts. Having read this blog for the past 18 months my decision came after a lot of soul searching, particularly after the recent re-election of the SFA president. What swayed it for me was partly a deep rooted sense of loyalty to a club that has had a strong emotional hold on me for the last 40 or so years, which has provided me with ultimate highs as well as desperate lows, and which I can’t stand idly by and watch die, despite the fact that the environment it operates in is rotten to the core. The only hope I have (having decided I am not yet ready to give up completely on Scottish football) is that the clubs have the bottle to demand a clear out at the top, and at the very least insist on an official and widespread acknowledgement that “Rangers” were formed in 2012. Realistically i don’t think this will happen so I think my only option will be to never attend a game involving Rangers, and would hope that at some point this blog finally manages to reach a much wider audience and convince supporters of all other clubs to boycott all their games too. Wouldn’t it be great if their triumphalism was denied a “live” audience at every game they played.
nawlite says:
August 30, 2013 at 6:15 pm
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Like a couple of other posters earlier, I also thought the £17m mentioned twice in the RFC* accounts related to the same thing i.e. the property revaluation. Others are taking the twice mentioned £17m to be different items of legal creative accounting. Can anyone confirm definitively one way or the other.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Just look at the “condensed consolidated income statement” included in the interim results to 31 December 2012. Just above halfway down you will see- Operating Loss £7048 (thousands). That is the true figure- a loss of just over £7m in 7 months. The rest is smoke and mirrors, otherwise known as accounting adjustments, mostly for release of negative goodwill, etc, which just means that they got the business on the cheap.
The property revaluation of £34m has gone to a revaluation reserve which appears in the balance sheet, although for reasons I don’t fully understand, a separate property revaluation of £5m is included as part of the negative goodwill, so far as I can see. But it doesn’t matter- the real figure, and the one that matters, is the operating loss of £7m, that is £1m per month. That is a real cash figure, and needs no further explanation.
Re never attending games involving the new Rangers.
I think the opposite.
I’m looking forward to their first visit to Pittodrie where they will be reminded who they are and what they have done 😀
Turning the other cheek doesn’t work with this lot.
Never tire of reminding them
Giovanni says:
August 30, 2013 at 10:47 am
essexbeancounter says:
August 30, 2013 at 8:24 am
redlichtie says:
August 29, 2013 at 10:11 pm
================================
…
Such manipulations are usually reserved for the published Financial Accounts in order to to try to deceive the gullible. The Directors are meant to be told the truth, the whole truth…….
So whom on the Board of Directors were they trying to dupe?
______________________________
The Cardigan himself possibly?
Maybe the spivs were trying to bamboozle their own patsy Chairman into continuing to fleece the bears…
Seems reasonable that his Val Doonicanness would be more familiar with published audited accounts than the management variety.
Giovanni says:
August 30, 2013 at 10:47 am
essexbeancounter says:
August 30, 2013 at 8:24 am
…and all perfectly permissable under current UK accounting methods!
redlichtie says:
August 29, 2013 at 10:11 pm
A £17M boost from revaluing assets
A second £17M boost from a net Goodwill credit
So £34M added to ‘profits’ and the year end result is a forecast profit of just £7.3M.
Am I correct in deducing then that RIFC actually lost £26.7M in the year? (Or that was the expectation in December)
================================
Whilst I agree this is all perfectly acceptable under UK financial rules these are meant to be Management Accounts, for Directors etc eyes only. I’ve never seen such entries in Management Accounts before. Such manipulations are usually reserved for the published Financial Accounts in order to to try to deceive the gullible. The Directors are meant to be told the truth, the whole truth…….
So whom on the Board of Directors were they trying to dupe?
==============================================================================
Giovanni…you are of course perfectly correct in principle re the concept of Management Accounts and “For Directors Etc. eyes only.
I have to admit, without any shame or embarrassment, to having used such techniques in management accounts which a board of directors were presenting to their bankers with a view to raising finance…and there the similarity ends…! My clients were looking for a “mere” £50-£100k in order to fund viable projects and business expansion, such bank advances being fully secured by a variety of guarantees, with no risk to the bank.
Here, Mr Green is merely talking up asset values and employing window dressing accounting techniques with a few to a “final pay day” for himself and his fellow spivs. At this stage of the poceedings, I do not think it matters if Deloittes have passed an audit opinion or not. In fact, true to form, they have managed to pass a “non-opinion already..with no negligible effect either way
Finally, I have usually found that by the time the (Un)Audited Accounts have been published, the gullible have long since been deceived and the spivs have ridden off into the sunset with the loot!
Bill1903 says:
August 30, 2013 at 9:10 pm
11 0 Rate This
Re never attending games involving the new Rangers.
I think the opposite.
I’m looking forward to their first visit to Pittodrie where they will be reminded who they are and what they have done 😀
Turning the other cheek doesn’t work with this lot.
Never tire of reminding them
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There are 2 separate issues
1. Sevco are NOT Rangers. They are pretending to be, but they are a poor relation. They really could have picked any team to throw their support behind, but they colelctively decided to back teh new club playing out of the stadium their old club played out of. Fair enough. But, they are a new club, no history, a 3rd division title and have provided nothing but laugh a minute entertainment with how shambolically (sp?) they are being run.
So, there is plenty of mileage in mocking them for supporting a new team as it is.
2. OLD Rangers did die, and in horrible circumstances. Tax dodging, cheating, shafting creditors, the farce of the admin and liquidation, walking away, tupe or not tupe, corrupt to the core. Plenty of entertainment there – my favourite was the money for the fighting fund going to the clown!! As this Sevco support are pretending to be Rangers, then it’s OK to mock rangers when playing Sevco – as it’s just a bit of banter to wind up the fans.
It doesn’t mean the 2 are the same – just because they want to think they are doesn’t make it so – but we shouldn’t miss out on any chance to give them a right slagging when called for!
The management accounts have been deleted from scribd…
They did confirm that 22m in pound notes had been raised from the ipo per the Cenkos aim announcement despite bampot sniggering suggesting the contrary.
Facts, facts, lets stick to facts.
Honest question; its a common theme on here about “Armageddon” etc. and how it didn’t happen. I think everyone knew it wouldn’t and we’re all glad it didn’t. The proposed “Scottish football needs a strong Rangers” ((c) Redlichtie) however I think is more interesting. The word “needs” is wrong as Scottish football has and will survive no matter the state of Rangers / Sevco / The Rangers / Whatever you want to call them.
However, the statement “Scottish football benefits from Rangers” is I think a different proposition. I know we could have a million threads on the negative things that Rangers bring to the game, but let me make this point. All clubs in whatever the former 3rd division is called now would have been delighted with Rangers being in their league last year because they made a fortune out of it. Likewise this year with the 2nd division or League 1 or the East Chinese Kazakh League based in Scotland or whatever its called. So my point is – Rangers ARE in fact good for Scottish football, because money is spread around other teams that wouldn’t otherwise have it. As has been provided by Celtic qualifying for the Champions League as other posters have demonstrated. My question to the forum is would it not be a good thing for Scottish football for a cleaned up, calm board, financially viable Rangers to make their way through the leagues, distributing the money provided by away fans throughout that time?
RyanGosling says:
August 30, 2013 at 9:45 pm
Of course the answer is yes, the question really is ‘is it feasible that a ” cleaned up, calm board, financially viable Rangers” and an honest transparent SFA can exist?’
Sadly I think that answer is no.
TheBayviewGold, thanks for your response. I’m genuinely pleasantly surprised, thought I’d get an attack of the thumbs down. And I’m going to chicken out of responding to your question because I posed my question in an idealistic sense – the how and why didn’t concern me, it was all in an ideal world.
To address the how can a “cleaned up, calm board, financially viable Rangers” exist – if any other club can have a viable business plan, then so can Rangers. They have the second highest income in Scottish football, they can certainly succeed. The cleaned up and calm board part is in my view more difficult, because as we have discussed many times there are a lot of people trying to take what they can out of the business with no long term plan.
I have heard it said that Goldman Sachs’ business plan used to be “long term greedy”. If anything fit with that plan, they were on board with it. If something could yield short term gains but would harm the long term business, Goldman Sachs were against it. In the run up to the financial crisis that idealism was lost.
Nobody at Rangers right now is long term greedy.
SouthernExile says:
August 30, 2013 at 9:45 pm
1 1 Rate This
The management accounts have been deleted from scribd…
They did confirm that 22m in pound notes had been raised from the ipo per the Cenkos aim announcement despite bampot sniggering suggesting the contrary.
Facts, facts, lets stick to facts.
=====================================
remember, Charlotte may not be our friend
there have been some fun documents come out, we all laughed and chuckled – i particularly liked the line in the interim management accounts about the sales of replica tops being slow as they had no LARGER sizes available
But, a lot of the info in the management accounts is “good news” – beating targets/budgets, £22M in teh bank
there is every chance we are being manipulated – or someone is being manipulated – by the release of this information
For all we know, Easdale may have agreed to buy CG’s shares on the back of that leak – good news for charlie eh?
RyanGosling says:
August 30, 2013 at 9:45 pm
4 4 Rate This
My question to the forum is would it not be a good thing for Scottish football for a cleaned up, calm board, financially viable Rangers to make their way through the leagues, distributing the money provided by away fans throughout that time?
———————–
So…. its just about the money ? I don’t think so. And its not just the board that needs cleaned up… its a whole mindset of the “institution”… if the past 2 years is anything to go by, its that mindset that is clearly the most frustrating thing to experience – We are the People, We’ve suffered enough, We want to know the names of those who are against us, We know who our enemies are, and we’ll get them back, etc, etc, etc
There’s a helluva lot more to change than just the board
This Celtic financial stuff has really taken off, even the lad’s in the workshop seem to want to question me now, revenge they seem to smell. But I had a simple reply, Mr Desmond. Now I don’t believe he genuinely is , much like McColl his asset’s are tied up, but he has proved before when it matter’s he will pay up to safeguard his investment long term. Now I’m not daft of course he will want a return, but if the brown stuff ever hit the fan, I’m sure he’d open up the jammy dodger tin.
RyanGosling says:
August 30, 2013 at 10:03 pm
Nobody at Rangers right now is long term greedy
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Well ❗ It all depends whether the spivs do a sale and lease-back of Ibrox forever. I suppose the thinking Bears might conclude that is ‘long term greedy’ and I would tend to agree with them.
Oldcobrokemyheartbycheating
Hi Jack – you on OT tonight ❓
The only brown stuff hitting the fan are the brogues – or is that the rogues – at Ibrox 😆
ecobhoy says:
August 30, 2013 at 10:36 pm
0 0 Rate This
Afraid not, actually a compliment to Mr Desmond. In my view billionaire’s of the world you could count on 1 hand. Everything’s tied up in deal’s etc. That’s not a criticism far from it, just the way I see it. Desmond whenever Celtic has needed him, as far as I can see he has been there. Been posting on here for a couple of year now feel free to check, just giving an honest opinion as am not clever enough to go through the financial stuff myself. I was hoping one of the big hitter’s would clear it up, but so far a-lot of it’s been jargon.
nostarsandbarred I take your point, but I deliberately tried to pose a question to avoid that. Yes its fair, yes its worthy of discussion, but that’s the reason I tried to make a very narrow point.
ecobhoy – I meant “long term greedy” on behalf of and for the benefit of the company, club, PLC, whatever (trying to avoid getting trapped in the club vs holding company point lol!) – nobody is doing that.
And for the avoidance of doubt, I am a Rangers fan.
Oldcobrokemyheartbycheating says:
August 30, 2013 at 10:28 pm
Away and play with somebody elses abacus.
Check out CF’s Twitter account, unless I’m wrong, it’s disappearing. It seems to be getting stripped away with the most recent post now 26 July. Is it being attacked or is CF closing it?
Well I guess my opinion matter’s little to a few, a shame been here for a while. I think I’ve given a reasoned arguement what more can I do?
Should be noted I am not Twitter savvy, but it’s back to 18 July now.
Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
August 30, 2013 at 10:14 pm
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SouthernExile says:
August 30, 2013 at 9:45 pm
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The management accounts have been deleted from scribd…
They did confirm that 22m in pound notes had been raised from the ipo per the Cenkos aim announcement despite bampot sniggering suggesting the contrary.
Facts, facts, lets stick to facts.
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remember, Charlotte may not be our friend
there have been some fun documents come out, we all laughed and chuckled – i particularly liked the line in the interim management accounts about the sales of replica tops being slow as they had no LARGER sizes available
But, a lot of the info in the management accounts is “good news” – beating targets/budgets, £22M in teh bank
there is every chance we are being manipulated – or someone is being manipulated – by the release of this information
For all we know, Easdale may have agreed to buy CG’s shares on the back of that leak – good news for charlie eh?
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The IPO figure being used here on tsfm (and in the business case I’ve linked to ) by and large was £19m which was £22m less £3m for debt. The accounts suggest it was £18m i.e £21m+ less £3m+ ut whats a million here and there?.
Castofthousands says:
August 30, 2013 at 5:59 pm
ecobhoy says:
August 30, 2013 at 2:25 pm
“If you look at more or less anything Mather is involved in my ‘take’ is that he wants to be Mr Teflon”
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I had been tempted to make an unflattering comment on Maither’s slicked back greasy hairstyle that accompanied his unshaven appearance in today’s PR piece. Do Teflon manufacture hair products?
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Nope – but they do manufacture a coating that repels grease – I think the Bears are buying into anti-grease teflon BIG STYLE so bye bye Mr Mather 🙄
CF tweets disappearing fast. From 413 to 226 now. What gives?
194!
Allyjambo says:
August 30, 2013 at 10:49 pm
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Should be noted I am not Twitter savvy, but it’s back to 18 July now.
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Going fast now
Maybe this?
http://www.newcommbiz.com/the-twitter-bug-that-will-disappear-your-account/
Allyjambo says:
August 30, 2013 at 10:48 pm
Yep – definitely going, tweet by tweet, which makes me think it is manual deletion.
TheBayviewGold says:
August 30, 2013 at 11:10 pm
Certainly looks that way. Green leaves Ibrrox (perhaps) and CF leaves town. Connection anyone?
TheBayviewGold says:
August 30, 2013 at 11:10 pm
I am a bit of a Luddite. Will somebody have taken a screenshot of everything or something like that 😳
@Auldheid
I agree that 22m is gross, net figure is less commission and fees of 3 m or so so around 19m.
@NTHM
Not sure that the Easdales understand balance sheets and all that stuff, metric more likely to be how many Tesco bags stuffed with tenners will fit down the back of a sofa.
I hope someone, or many, has/have got copies of her most interesting stuff. It could end up one of those horrible mysteries where we never find out what’s gone on.
All gone now! Could it be that some kind of interdict/injunction has been taken out re the police investigation (if there is one)?
jean7brodie says:
August 30, 2013 at 11:18 pm
Yes they could have – but maybe not, I haven’t , they’re all gone now. Strange?
Allyjambo says:
August 30, 2013 at 11:16 pm
who knows? this whole TRFC saga seems to have no end of surprises.
PS – for some reason I have reverted back to my alter ego TheBayviewGold this is not connected with CG or Charlotte 🙂
chancer67 says:
August 29, 2013 at 8:17 pm
First thing I would say is that the numbers are straight out of the Accounts. Nothing in the piece quoted was therefore a revelation.
The values he extracts from the accounts are accurate but his analysis of them leaves an awful lot to be desired.
The piece on Corporation Tax is riddled with inaccuracies. Accumulated Losses should not be confused with Debt as he has done. There is £33m accumulated losses: that is, through their history the club have accumulated more losses than profits. They will not be liable to pay Corporation tax until the accumulated losses become Accumulated Profit (ignoring some complexities of tax rules V accounting rules).
As to the expectation of making a loss for the year even with the CL revenue because they have not provided for Corporation Tax. The fact is that they did not expect to make more than £33 million for the year and if they did they would then need to provide for Corporation Tax.
As for using the borrowing to fund variations in Working Capital, that is common practice. As to not making it through the season without it: a bit of a stretch to reach that conclusion given the whole picture. They may need the funding but they could obtain it by other means. Debentures, Share Issue etc .
They have long term loans and an overdraft facility. That is normal business practice and is an indication that the Bank has faith in their ability to pay it back. If refused such facilities it suggests a lack of confidence that the borrower will be able to pay it back. They put the term funding in place believing that they would need to borrow this amount over the future years and it is cheaper to have term loans than overdrafts. A couple of years in a row in the CL Group stages may mean that they don’t have to draw down the whole facility and not use the overdraft facility. Better to have it and not need it than to need it and ………….
I look forward to the full 2013 results from Celtic and Rangers.
Charlotte, we hardly knew ye
Is this related to the end-game re EGM/AGM?
Has anyone saved the scribd links and are they still active?
I used to point out Celtic’s debt to my brother a few years ago about 2008.
Around about the time of the collapse of the banks I’m also sure that there was mention in one of the accounts concerning money, that had been residing in an Irish bank, being transferred back to a UK account. I can’t remember exactly how large this sum was but I thought it strange at the time.
Anyway repayments were to start about 2010 and about £400K had to be paid back every quarter with a large sum paid later on. I think the figure quoted earlier was £16.9M to be paid around 2020 but there was no charge for early repayment.
As far as I could see there was a draw down facility but it had been barely touched. As has been mentioned before just because you have access to £22M but have not used it doesn’t mean you are £22M in debt. It is almost the same as someone claiming you are in debt because you have an overdraft even though you are not using your overdraft.
I have looked for this figure in the accounts over the last couple of years but it does seem to have disappeared which I also find strange. Why would this figure vanish at the point you were about to start paying it off?
Unless the sum mentioned earlier had went some way to reducing it and then the rest had been transferred into another overdraft. I don’t really know but someone mentioned earlier on that they thought that it had been assigned to another company. This I think would be shady as it would be removing a debt from the view of the shareholders who could ultimately lose the assets they have invested in.
I know for a fact that there was a debt there about 2008 but that it vanished from the accounts about the time it was scheduled to start being repaid.
RyanGosling says:
August 30, 2013 at 10:44 pm
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nostarsandbarred I take your point, but I deliberately tried to pose a question to avoid that. Yes its fair, yes its worthy of discussion, but that’s the reason I tried to make a very narrow point.
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Ok, but I’m not even buying that ! 🙂 ANY club with a large traveling support, like Sevco Scotland Limited, would provide a random 2-3 years of financial benefit to other clubs, but that can’t be a long-term strategy to rely upon, so no, I don’t think that its better for Scottish football, even ignoring all the other factors involved in this case
New pic on CF might suggest she has been gagged!
Surely it’s not a bad thing to talk about Celtic’s account’s? I will be honest I am a Celtic supporter. If anything bad was to be uncovered, not that I am suggesting there is, surely that would be good to get it out in the open! Phil has said his part on twitter tonight, and from the start I have believed him so I will not worry. But if there’s nothing there what’s the harm in shooting the accusation’s down?
Allyjambo says:
August 30, 2013 at 11:32 pm
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New pic on CF might suggest she has been gagged!
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Indeed. Just as she was becoming mainstream too. So who can do that, apart from CF herself, obviously?
Danish Pastry says:
August 30, 2013 at 11:40 pm
would have thought if it was Charlotte’s doing it would have been easier to close account?
Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
August 30, 2013 at 10:14 pm
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SouthernExile :
August 30, 2013 at 9:45 pm
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The management accounts have been deleted from scribd…
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I wondered if this might happen. a few days ago some guys reverse engineered Drpobox
As I reckon CF is IT literate I think maybe traces are being removed.
TSFM what do you reckon?
http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/it-security/researchers-reverse-engineer-the-dropbox-client-what-it-means/
Reverse engineered = In short means they can find their way back to whoever posted docs.
Danish Pastry says:
August 30, 2013 at 11:40 pm
Could it be ‘job done’? Green has gone (maybe) – has CF caused his departure, or was it part of the plan? On the other hand, didn’t someone say earlier that McMurdo was claiming to have discovered her identity?
RyanGosling says:
August 30, 2013 at 10:03 pm
I think at some point CG must seen that Goldman Sachs phrase and took it to mean; a long term rip off.
Gus Levy’s own description of the phrase ‘long term greedy’ was … being professional, keeping your word, cleaning up messes and honouring relationships with clients and employees. In other words doing the right thing for no reason, all the time. Qualities the Green faction seem have mislaid in their determined rush for the blue pound.
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On a different note; I was in Chamonix today to watch the start of the Mont Blanc Ultra Trail (166kms race over the Alps) One of the runners was wearing a Sixth Sense T-shirt with a new tagline -” I see Rangers fans”. Totally out of place, but that made it even funnier.
I expect CF to re appear. The guys at Dropbox /scribd already working on it.
It’s nothing to do with dropbox
Jack Irvine certainly has no power to suspend a twitter account,
The tweets were deleted to make a point
ianagain says:
August 30, 2013 at 11:45 pm
I don’t think this is related, I think the simplest answer is that someone raised some kind of injunction against the owner of the account or twitter or both. Twitter do say they will give out info under their “Law and Harm:” clause.
note though in line with your reverse engineering theory, printers and scanners can carry a “fingerprint” allowing them to be tracked and uniquely identified. So by triangulation with other unrelated docs a leak can possibly be identified.
RyanGosling says:
August 30, 2013 at 9:45 pm
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Not really, no.
Firstly the benefit if travelling TRFC fans is all relevant. It might be significant for Scottish third division teams but makes a fractional difference to teams in the top league despite what the media would have us believe. When compared to what Aberdeen bring to Dundee Utd, what Hearts bring to Hibs, what ICT bring to R County and so on its really a load of hoary old chestnuts to suggest TRFC or RFC have a superior travelling support to everyone else – they don’t.
Secondly, we’ve yet to really see whether they’ll even have a strong travelling support anyway. It being a new club and many supporters of the old club clearly having chosen not to jump on the bandwagon. And of course they have promised boycotts so really why would any top league team be happy to see their return?
Thirdly there was always the loss of home fans who didn’t want to take their kids to such games or indeed couldn’t stomach the bile brought by RFC fans themselves so just skipped it. That will now be compounded by a significant body of fans who I know have sworn to never attend a match that TRFC play and do not wish to give so much as the steam of their pish to what they see as the bstard child of a nefarious, cheating, malignant organisation.
So weigh all that up in your estimations.
I would just like to register my dismay at what I see as a creeping ‘cliqueyness’ developing on this site.
Recently it would appear that if you aren’t one of the big-hitters’ on this site and you make a post ‘they’ don’t like you are censured by one means or another. Now this next part shall be torn to shreds, I know this already and it actually saddens me to say it but is there a hint of hubris setting in?
An excerpt from a reply from TSFM:
“FYI, the identity, singularity or duality of any poster here is irrelevant and no more worthy of comment than your identity. If you can’t muster a counter argument to other posters without attacking them personally, you probably shouldn’t be posting.”
I was moderated, in part, for alluding to ‘Steerpike’ being more than 1 poster and yet we still have the big guns getting away with it.
I realise my infrequent posts mean my voice has very little bearing on proceedings but come on you bloomin’ dunderheids – BALL, NOT MAN.
Scottish Football needs jumpers for goalposts.
Oldcobrokemyheartbycheating says:
August 30, 2013 at 11:37 pm
I agree that tere is nothing wrong with discussing the Celtic accounts. Most of the stuff that gets imported here from the Rangers sites is nonsense and is easy to counter with a rational explanation.
I mostly suspect that the poster of the stuff has an agenda but put my counter argument even at the risk of feeding the trolls a wee bit.
In my view the more tha fans understand the accounts the better they can hold the board to account and hopefully make the spivs look elsewhere for easy targets.
.
A day ago some chap posed whether the current stushie around Pretendygers would attract more of the moderate fans back rather than the “nutters”.
I’m pals with a Rangers fan who lives in Forfar (and goes to see Forfar from a travel/cost of view) and attended the cup game.
He was disgusted with the mob that turned up at the game. He reckons cameras should be banned from their away games as they just all react to getting attention.
He says he will never go back and watch Rangers again simply from that experience.
Since then we have both been to Motherwell and last week a English lower league game.
Lousy Euro game at the Well. but 6 goals in the other game. Both hassle free. I guess that’s what makes the difference.
TheBayviewGold says:
August 31, 2013 at 12:02 am
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ianagain says:
August 30, 2013 at 11:45 pm
I don’t think this is related, I think the simplest answer is that someone raised some kind of injunction against the owner of the account or twitter or both. Twitter do say they will give out info under their “Law and Harm:” clause
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So its Jack rather than someone remotely intelligent.
I hope everyone had the archive feature turned on like I had .
Den says:
August 31, 2013 at 12:14 am
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A fair summary pretty much where I find my reasoning pointing toward’s. My worry is if we suppress this, will it be Klan like? Better to carry the debate to the other side, and shoot them down? Again only my opinion, and I value all the poster’s who have taken the time to defend’s Celtic’s account’s, just I’m open to debate I see that as healthy, and un-klan-like.