Mr Green and Opportunity Knocks— For Aberdeen?

Good Morning,

In the last week, we have seen a number of strange occurrences in Scottish Football, which if taken together might just point to a very different land than the one we were lead to believe we live in just two short years ago.

First of all there was the report from a firm of well known accountants which pronounced that a significant number of Scottish Football Clubs had, in fact, sold more season tickets for this coming season than they had in the course of the last several years.

Then we had the spectacle of the National team travelling to Wembley and playing very well AND being cheered on by a very large travelling support who appear to have been full of fun and who acquitted themselves well in the big smoke.

This morning I read that today’s match at Pittodrie is a sell out — with the old stadium being packed to the rafters for the visit of Celtic. This is the first time that Aberdeen have been able to sell out the fixture for some 6 years!

Not only that, various Celtic supporting websites have lead with articles saying that the return of a strong Aberdeen and Dundee United are to be welcomed– in fact not only welcomed but positively wished for.

In contrast, stories abound about the in fighting on the Ibrox Board. There are surreptitious share dealings and all sorts of company jockeying being deployed by the rival factions who are trying to gain control of The Rangers. Further, there is the suggestion from some well informed parties that not only will Ibrox and the Albion be sold and leased back to the club to generate much needed immediate cash, but that Murray Park has been sold off completely and will no longer be available to The Rangers for any purpose whatsoever!

Clearly, there are big troubles at the club which will not assist in the stated intention of rising to the very top in Scottish Football.

In between all of this, the debate goes on about Campbell Ogilvie, Press manipulation, the correspondence  between Media House and the SFA, and between The SFA and Ibrox re the relationship between Charlie Green and Craig Whyte and so on.

Standing with my business hat on, I looked at all of this and wondered what it all meant, and pretty quickly reached the conclusion that we are now in a time of supreme opportunity for some of the clubs in Scottish Football—- particularly Aberdeen FC.

There is a view abroad, that in the absence of the “Strong Rangers” that Celtic Football Club will win the SPFL title for almost evermore — or at least until they are toppled from the top spot by the rise of a strong Rangers club somewhere towards the end of this decade or early in the next– because we are assured that they will be back– in one form or another– in a rather Arnold Schwarzenegger  like fashion.

That return or initial rise if you like– its timing and its manner— is dependent on a number of things– not least the exit strategy of Charlie Green and his cohorts.

If it is true that The Rangers are going to part company with Ibrox and the Albion, that they have taken on a loan of funds which attract a rate of interest that amounts to 15% per annum, and that there are set figures for buying the old ( and decaying ) stadium back any time soon, and that they have yet again hawked the season ticket money, then the already flawed Ibrox business plan is burdened even more by interest and rent payments of an additional £3M per annum and rising!

It should also be noted that the accounts for old co from the mid naughties onwards boasted that season ticket sales, merchandising, corporate hospitality and so on had reached unprecedented levels—- but—- the club still did not make an operating profit without strange internals transactions such as the repurchase of media rights which added £15M on to the P&L’s AND the sale of Jean Alain Boomsong!

Accordingly, the current position will not make for good financial reading.

So– let’s presume that in the current climate Celtic are out of sight and will always be champions for ever and a day. What do the rest of the clubs say in the absence of the Ibrox club without whom they have been told they will perish?

Well, If I were in charge of Aberdeen FC I would look out across a city with an inherent population of some 220,000 souls sitting in a county which takes the population up by another 40,000 or so. I would note that the compact city also houses two universities and a number of colleges — all of which attract visitors to the city— and that its position as the oil capital of Europe also draws in a substantial number of itinerant workers.

Further, personal knowledge shows that many who studied at Aberdeen University or Robert Gordon’s in the 80’s left the city as Aberdeen FC fans and no matter where they have ended up in life they still make the journey back to Pittodrie when they can– especially in good times!

Alas, however, Aberdeen has not enjoyed ” Good Times” of late— in fact not really since ……….. the arrival of David Murray at Ibrox!

If you cast your mind back to the pre Murray era, Aberdeen were a force not only in Scotland but Europe as the recent nostalgia re Gothenburg has reminded us.

The city has an economic micro climate which suggests that it can ride economic hardship better than most and so all things considered this current period provides a great opportunity for the Dons.

Unlike Dundee United, Hearts, and Hibs, Aberdeen FC sits in a large one team conurbation and should be on the doorstep of a populace which can fill Pittodrie every single week …… IF that fan base can be motivated.

And there lies the rub– how do you get a notoriously fickle fan base out of the armchair and into the stadium?

The late Bob Crampsey once described Pittodrie by saying ” And there are the masses of Aberdeen fans, masquerading as rows and rows of Empty seats!” yet in their heydey an Aberdeen crowd on a visit to Glasgow were among the noisiest– and to this football fans eyes — the scariest ( in a good sense ) supports to be seen.

Well, at this juncture, Derek McInnes and team need only look at every other football club in the land ( bar Celtic ) and determine that come next May those others will be below them in the league. If Aberdeen maintain a strong league run keeping everyone behind them then there is the possibility of a huge revenue swing in favour of the Dons– such a swing that would put them in an even stronger position for the following year.

Further, Aberdeen are a European name. Perhaps a European name from yesteryear and not the recent past, but the pedigree is there and as such there will be those who remember the heady European Nights both home and away. Reviving those memories and that reputation– at least to an extent– is not beyond the club, and with no disrespect to Motherwell and St Johnstone both of whom are liable to lose key players or even a manager between seasons, Aberdeen may just be of a size to consolidate each year rather than scramble to maintain the momentum of one good season which comes along every now and then.

Financial management and football rewards can go hand in hand when combined properly, and of all the clubs in Scotland who can benefit from a level playing field in terms of proper football governance, Aberdeen FC are uniquely placed in my opinion.

That is not so say that The Arabs, or the Hibees or anyone else cannot benefit– on the contrary— but the Dons are the most obvious candidates in terms of potential structure to really motor forward and regain a by gone status.

Such a situation, and the recognition of that potential, should be borne in mind by all at Celtic Football Club, as last year they struggled for a period in the league while they concentrated on their European exploits. If Celtic want to go further and further in Europe ( and why shouldn’t they ) they will have to be wary of any club which is capable of reigniting its fortunes from a lowly position or a position of having to look back at glory and potential glory rather than looking forward.

Further, with the way things are being organised at Ibrox, there is absolutely no guarantee ( some would say likelihood ) that an eventual challenge to a perceived dominance by Celtic will come from that quarter, and life in the top flight for any returning Rangers could prove very difficult if the likes of Aberdeen get their act together and start to produce the type of home grown team of old.

For now, I sense a degree of optimism about the Dons– not just on the playing front either.  They have a fan base, they have a business model and a good young manager, and any comparative business exercise must conclude that they have every chance of rising above most of their rivals in the league, in terms of revenue, in terms of brand development and business expansion.

If I were an Aberdeen fan I would like to think positive and be ambitious in this climate, whilst at the same time casting an eye back to the days when they were top of the tree.

As one Aberdeen supporting ( but now Edinburgh based ) friend put it to me:

” Ah, those were the days my friend, those were the days……………”

2,310 thoughts on “Mr Green and Opportunity Knocks— For Aberdeen?


  1. I have been keeping a wee eye on Jim Craig’s Scottish Football History, partly because on one our contributors is involved with it, but mainly because erudite and articulate ex-footballers are a bit thin on the ground.

    His recent chapter on the 1880’s is well worth a read and the best so far in an increasingly entertaining and factual account of the origins of the game when it was a sport. I know that Rabo is probably too modest to say, but it is emerging as a real online achievement.

    Rangers in the FA Cup semi-finals? Whooda thunk eh?

    http://tinyurl.com/SFHPart3

    I’ve also added a link to the sidebar.


  2. I see the 5 way agreement – as published by the “gagged” Charlotte also contains the myth that there is a

    RFC PLC (in admin)
    Rangers FC – the club operated by the above
    Sevco Scotland Ltd

    So, what is the definition/legal standing of Rangers FC (the club)

    It doesn’t file accounts, doesn’t pay/register players, isn’t a member of SFA/SPL

    Are we essentially saying all members of the SPFL have a “club” and that if they so wished, they could sell that club (league place) to another organisation

    Is scottish football franchised?


  3. From the 5-way agreement :

    “5.2 On Completion, the SFL shall accept the transfer of the SPL Player Registrations from the SPL to be SFL Player Registrations as if Rangers FC had been relegated from the SPL to the SFL.”

    I imagine that all the lawyers involved with drawing up this document would have been well aware that this was an attempt to ride roughshod over TUPE regulations.

    I can only surmise that it was placed in the document to give some basis for Sevco claiming ‘ownership’ of the players despite them having no such legal right.

    What I’m not sure of is whether the SFA took the view “Good luck with that one in court…” or were actually seeking to conspire with Sevco against the law of the land and the interests of the players.

    Unfortunately my suspicion is that it is the latter.

    I also suspect that the only reason that the agreement was deemed to be confidential was for the sake of Sevco. Inserting such a clause conveniently allowed all the parties to then say that they could not discuss the document……except for Sevco of course who could rail against sanctions which if truth be known they had agreed and irrevocably undertaken to adhere to.

    Wouldn’t it have all been much simpler if the SFA had just said – “Rangers, you’re bust. Who would like to apply for a place in the Third Division? Spartans?”

    But they couldn’t go down that route because there was no way to facilitate Rangers entry under the rules as they were a new company/club.

    I think if I ever had the misfortune to meet any of these people I really would have to hold my nose.

    Scottish football needs transparency and clarity.


  4. helpmaboab says:

    September 1, 2013 at 12:16 pm
    Allyjambo@11:31am
    Re Corsica Charity’s advice to contact MSPs. Do you know if there was /is an online petition to do this?
    _____________
    Sorry, I didn’t notice any link to one. Perhaps Corsica Charity might create one, though I understand he’s on holiday/moving home at present so might not have the time.


  5. TSFM says:
    September 1, 2013 at 12:39 pm

    helpmaboab says:
    September 1, 2013 at 12:16 pm (Edit)
    ====================================

    I wrote to my MSP back in June about the OSCR handling of the scandal as then reported by CorsicaCharity. The bottom line of the reply I got was:

    “OSCR is part of the Scottish Administration, however, it is not under ministerial control. As
    OSCR is an operationally independent body, it is for them to interpret charity law and apply it
    to situations they encounter. As such, it would not be appropriate for Scottish Minsters to
    comment further on what is an operational matter for OSCR.”

    So good luck with writing to your MSP.


  6. theoldshed says:
    September 1, 2013 at 12:08 pm
    18 1 Rate This

    Bill1903 says:
    August 30, 2013 at 9:10 pm
    72 0 Rate This
    Re never attending games involving the new Rangers.
    I think the opposite.
    I’m looking forward to their first visit to Pittodrie where they will be reminded who they are and what they have done
    Turning the other cheek doesn’t work with this lot.
    Never tire of reminding them

    ————————————————————————

    I can see in some ways why you might want to attend games against them, as it doubtless there is enough material to keep highly amusing chants for an entire 90 minutes.
    However, a complete boycott (meaning that wherever they go “The Rangers” supporters are met my a stadium completely empty on 3 sides – albeit that would be nothing new at Rugby Park – sorry Killie fans) would totally take their wind out of their sails and deprive them of the “oxygen” of confrontation that they thrive on. It would also send out a clear message which would be impossible for the media and authorities to ignore. Pittodrie full to the rafters with 16000 Aberdeen fans chanting “tax dodging b.stards” etc (I’m sure they could come up with better than that) and other chants for 90 minutes would have the MSM drooling over the great atmosphere generated by “rangers” return..i.e.business as usual. I would argue that by attending any games involving The Rangers you would be “turning the other cheek”, as you out it. Arranging and carrying through a mass boycott of all their games unless and until the truth about their formation date and honours list is acknowledged, would in fact be taking a stand against the disgraceful antics we spend hours of our lives discussing on this blog.

    ————————————-

    Good points.
    The thing that gets me, is why are Sevco allowed to call themselves ‘rangers’ ?

    I’ve heard people say…well that’s the name on the badge and that’s the name on the coupon and that’s what x,y and z refer to them as…rangers !

    They are not rangers, so why are the pools allowed to print ‘rangers’ on the coupon ?!

    Why should we refer to them as ‘rangers’ ?
    Every time we use the name ‘rangers’ instead of Sevco…we are condoning it !!!


  7. 5-Way

    “13.4
    Nothing in this agreement shall prevent the Joint Administrators using the name “Rangers Football Club” or any other trade name of RFC for the purposes of the performance of their statutory duties.”

    Is this the ok from the SFA to continue trading under the same name? Surely not?

    Otherwise it’s all Sevco, Sevco, Sevco. Someone on twitter mentioned the doc includes 85 mentions of Sevco and 29 of ‘Rangers’


  8. As usual it’s what’s not contained that is more interesting than what’s written.

    No definition of what a football club is.
    No definition of Sevco.
    Why the mention of Richard Hughes?
    No definition of what “conditional” or “associate” membership entails.
    No explanation for why Rangers or Sevco are not eligible for UEFA competitions.

    No explanation for why company or TUPE law is to be illegally overidden or superseded by this concoction.
    No explanation for the shameless flouting, ignoring, bending or breaking of existing SFA, SPL and SFL rules to accomodate this concoction.
    What a parcel of rogues!

    And I will return to my favourite hobby horse, our own clubs and their role, either active or supine in this.

    Did all the other 41 clubs see this agreement?
    If not what not?
    If some did, why them and not others?
    Did they agree to it. If so why?
    If they dissented, what did they try to do about it?
    What pressure was applied to dissenting clubs?
    Why do they remain silent in the face of the continual corruption which is dismantling Scottish Football?


  9. 2.1 The SPL, Sevco and RFC hereby agree that on Completion Sevco shall, other than with respect to the CW Exempt Acts, become liable and responsible for the purpose of imposition of sanctions by the SPL for any and all acts and/or omissions of RFC and/or Rangers FC which predated Completion including the CW Enduring Acts and which caused, resulted in, contributed or led to a breach of or failure to fulfil any provision or provisions of the SPL Articles and/or the SPL Rules by RFC and/or Rangers FC as if, for that purpose, such acts and/or omissions had occurred at a time when Sevco was the owner and holder of the RFC Share and Rangers FC had been owned and operated by Sevco and Sevco had been a full member of the SFA.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Hmmm. So how did the ‘oldco’ end up getting fined over the dual contracts?


  10. Am I right in saying that the only individuals actually named in the 5-way agreement are Craig Whyte, for obvious reasons and Richard Hughes (of Zeus). One wonders why they felt it necessary to mention Mr Hughes by name.

    12.2 Except with respect to any alleged breach of the obligations on the SFA, the SPL and/or
    the SFL comprised in this Agreement, each of Sevco and RFC hereby undertakes that it
    shall not, and will procure that its respective directors, associated companies,
    shareholders, officers and in the case of Sevco those of its directors who are
    shareholders (in that capacity) and Mr Richard Hughes (as a shareholder) shall not
    commence, or threaten to commence, any proceedings in any jurisdiction before any
    court, arbitration or other similar judicial body against the Released Parties (including by
    way of third party claims in any other action) arising out of or connected, whether directly
    or indirectly, with any of the Claims or any other matter addressed in this Agreement.
    ==============================

    I know he held 6.8% of the company at one time (may still do for all I know), roughly the same as Ahmad, I’m just curious as to why he was actually named in the agreement. Is it simply because he was one of the main players, albeit more under the radar than the rest of them.


  11. jimlarkin says:
    September 1, 2013 at 1:34 pm

    “The thing that gets me, is why are Sevco allowed to call themselves ‘rangers’ ?”

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    The simple answer is, they were given permission. And here is the key point in the old club / new club debate if you are ever foolish enough to engage a Sevconian. If you are the same club, why did you have to ask for permission to use the Rangers name? Clearly, if you are Rangers you don’t need permission to call yourself Rangers. Sevco were not Rangers when they bought the assets, now they are Rangers – but not the same Rangers.

    I get tired of the usual suspects in the press trying to re-write history. The request for permission to use the Rangers name is a matter of fact and on record.


  12. Blindsummit63 says:
    September 1, 2013 at 2:47 pm

    See my last, I found the mention of Hughes a bit strange as well.

    Re the other clubs – My reading of it is that they did not see the document, had no say in it and other than those who were owed money had no rights inferred on them by it. It was a cosy arrangement between the Scottish Football authorities, Rangers, and the new club. As I understand it Charles Green represented both the old club and the new one.

    Just a continuation of the stitch up started by Whyte and presided over by Duff and Phelps.


  13. From CF twitter

    The Rangers didn’t need to accept any penalties from the authorities. Any team playing out of Ibrox would have walked straight into SFL3.
    However as a newco they would not have been permitted to play as a variant of Rangers. Craig Whyte was key to this whole charade. He was >
    bought off by Imran/Charles, although they bumped him after publicly being outed. The Rangers had to accept a form of punishment in order tocontinue with this illusion of being the exact same club. Charles and Imran were willing participants, the fans were the victims all along.
    Those who were instrumental in requesting this document remained confidential should all be charged with bringing the game into disrepute.
    ———————–
    I wonder who will charge them as this will be all over the papers tomorrow.
    S*** is that a squirrel


  14. Tif Finn says:
    September 1, 2013 at 3:04 pm
    Blindsummit63 says:
    September 1, 2013 at 2:47 pm

    See my last, I found the mention of Hughes a bit strange as well.
    ======================================================
    ecobhoy says:
    September 1, 2013 at 12:01 pm

    I have always wondered why secrecy needed to surround the 5-way Agreement and was continually drawn to a passage in the RIFC Plc AIM Flotation document which stated: ‘RFCL also agreed to release the SFA, SPL and SFL and their directors and officers from all claims connected with their conduct, the registration embargo and the obligations under the 5 Way Agreement. Further, RFCL agreed to procure that its directors and officers will not commence any proceedings in this connection.’

    The draft released by CF reveals something I don’t think I’ve spotted before under Waiver of Claims 12.2:

    ‘. . . Sevco and RFC hereby undertakes that it shall not, and will procure that its respective directors, associated companies, shareholders, officers and in the case of Sevco those of its directors who are shareholders (in that capacity) and Mr Richard Hughes (as a shareholder) shall not commence, or threaten to commence, any proceedings in any jurisdiction before any court, arbitration or other similar judicial body against the Released Parties (including by way of third party claims in any other action) arising out of or connected, whether directly or indirectly, with any of the Claims or any other matter addressed in this Agreement.’

    So we are back to what happened that could have led to legal action from ‘Rangers’ against the SFA, SPL and SFL and their directors and officers. And how is Richard Hughes the MD of Zeus Capital, whom Ahmad and Stockbridge worked for, involved?

    I think we are missing the subtext in the 5-way Agreement. We know it’s there, we know it is serious but we have yet to see it.
    ———————–
    I really believe that this mention of Richard Hughes is very important – I keep going back to what could have been that bad in the conduct of SFA, SPL and SFA directors and officers that a blanket waiver had to be sought from Rangers not to start legal action against them.

    I keep thinking back to June/July last year for something that could be ‘nuclear’ and at that time I think the most dangerous claim made was that Rizvi was an original consortium shareholder. The Herald ran a story that the SFA had been informed of this and that one prospective large investor had walked away because of Rizvi’s name being involved.

    We then had all the flurry of fit and proper supposed checks on the consortium shareholders. There were rumblings at the time that Blue Pitch Holdings was connected to Zeus Holdings but I don’t believe that has ever been confirmed. Ahmad had 2.2 million shares as had Richard Hughes, with Stockbridge on 50k shares and another Zeus director on 100k shares. So senior people in Zeus had 4.5 million shares and unknown Zeus clients are also believed to have invested in the Rangers consortium but again the amount is unknown.

    Always worth remembering that one of the two conflicting stories – both told by Green – as to how he became involved was that it was through Zeus and I think from what I know that is the more likely tale.

    So we have Zeus right at the start of the consortium from the very beginning and now we apparently have Richard Hughes at the middle of what, to me, seems to be a bizarre pledge not to take legal action against the Hampden mafia – what is this all about ❓


  15. scottc says:
    September 1, 2013 at 2:54 pm

    Hmmm. So how did the ‘oldco’ end up getting fined over the dual contracts?
    =========================================================
    Is that not because the 5-way Agreement initially was going to demand title stripping and it seemed Green was seemingly not that averse to this and according to Rangers folklore McCoist went ballistic over it and refused to allow it. I don’t know if this is fact but there were certainly some indications at the time it was possibly true.

    So that left the next move on that subject up to LNS and, of course, as we now know Bryson was waiting on the subs bench ready to do his duty 👿


  16. In unrelated issues Richard Huges was at the centre of a criminal investigation by HMRC into alleged tax irregularities in relation to a lot of companies he had set up.

    http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/rangers-stakeholder-faces-tax-scheme-1412607

    A spokesman for Zeus Partners said: “Zeus Partners provided a number of high-risk investment opportunities backing highly successful entrepreneurs with a proven track record.

    “Individual investors had the option of claiming HMRC statutory relief in the event the investments were unsuccessful.

    ===============================================

    Springtime for Hitler and Germany.


  17. ecobhoy says:
    September 1, 2013 at 3:40 pm

    ===============================

    Pure conjecture here.

    Could they previously have made promises that they could not deliver on. For example a place in the top league.

    Debt free Rangers in the SPL with all of it’s assets intact (including the playing squad) would have been a seriously good “investment” at the price they got it. Loss of the SPL place most of the players and starting the new club in the fourth tier would be much less attractive.


  18. Ecobhoy:
    “Maximillian (Max) Metzel, aged 24, describes himself as the Director of Football of Simply Sport Management and a Players’ Agent Licensed by the English FA. He attended Durham University and holds a master’s degree of laws and a bachelor’s degree in business management and FA coaching qualifications and he may be able to provide some welcome support for Sally.

    He started out working in the computer games industry and then became an agent in the entertainment industry agent before switching to sport management in 2009 becoming a director at SIMPLY SPORT MANAGEMENT LIMITED in January this year.”

    If this character became a director in 2009, he must have then been 20 years old then, how did he get a master’s degree?-he would have had to go to university at around 14 years old!


  19. More from CF on twitter

    Oldco waives all fees due to it from the SPL, which will be distributed as fees to SPL clubs this season as additional fee payments”

    Re Prev Tweet. Why did Duff and Phelps agree to this at the expense of RFC creditors. Asset sale was already an agreed non negotiable deal.


  20. Tif Finn says:
    September 1, 2013 at 4:05 pm
    ecobhoy says:
    September 1, 2013 at 3:40 pm
    ===============================
    Pure conjecture here. Could they previously have made promises that they could not deliver on. For example a place in the top league.

    Debt free Rangers in the SPL with all of it’s assets intact (including the playing squad) would have been a seriously good “investment” at the price they got it. Loss of the SPL place most of the players and starting the new club in the fourth tier would be much less attractive.
    =========================================================================
    It’s possible but would the suits not insert the caveat that the final decision would rest with general meetings of each of the bodies viz SFA, SPL and SFL? Some of these suits might sometimes look stupid but I don’t see them being that careless as they have a record of successfully covering their ass.

    Although tbf the fans kicking-off might have been something that came right out of left field. But if Rangers had reached some kind of handshake agreement on a top-flight place then they probably wouldn’t have a legal leg to stand on to win damages in court and Rangers would suffer as much reputational damage as whoever gave the ‘assurance’ if the issue became public.

    Whatever it was Rangers seem to believe it was OTT and the inclusion of directors and officials seems to personalise it as does the inclusion of Hughes.


  21. Charlotte Fakeovers ‏@CharlotteFakes 48m

    Have Cenkos refunded all fees back to RIFC? If not, someone in authority give me a shout and I’ll arrange on their behalf.
    ====================================================================
    Now what is that all about ❓ Sounds potentially serious stuff for CENKOS – the initial broker and Nomad for RIFC Plc from flotation last year and who were recently replaced.


  22. Some very interesting developments today from CF and some great dissection from the participants here, but it still bothers me that the 5way is a draft and holds no legitimacy, the other thing that bothers me is the behaviour of the SFA etc, they have chosen to follow the guide of “time is a great healer” and by keeping quiet for long enough it will all go away and it will become a minor talking point for future football historians. No one outside twitter or blogs seems to care the authorities, the football organisations, the clubs, the press, no one. Are we just an irrelevance? What can or even should be done?


  23. Bayview Gold says:
    September 1, 2013 at 4:59 pm

    It bother me that the Scottish football authorities, all three at the time, thought it was OK to come to a secret arrangement with a club which was being liquidated and another which didn’t even exist at the time.

    It bothers me further that they thought it was OK to break their own rules in order to do it, that they did it without involving any of the other clubs and that between them they decided that no-one else would ever get to see the details of that agreement.

    Did anyone, at any time ask the other clubs who might have wanted the vacant place in Scottish senior football what they thought about it.

    The administrators (for Rangers) seem to have bent over backwards to facilitate Charles Green (and whoever is behind him) getting Rangers’ assets. The administrators (of Scottish football) seem to have done the same in order to get the new club he created with those assets into senior football in this country. With no consideration for anyone else.

    Shameful.


  24. Bayview Gold says:
    September 1, 2013 at 4:59 pm
    4 0 Rate This

    Some very interesting developments today from CF and some great dissection from the participants here, but it still bothers me that the 5way is a draft and holds no legitimacy, the other thing that bothers me is the behaviour of the SFA etc, they have chosen to follow the guide of “time is a great healer” and by keeping quiet for long enough it will all go away and it will become a minor talking point for future football historians. No one outside twitter or blogs seems to care the authorities, the football organisations, the clubs, the press, no one. Are we just an irrelevance? What can or even should be done?
    —————————————————————————————————————————
    We are a irrelevance.
    Sporting integrity is irrelevant.
    The SFA under CO will do nothing as they have done since day one.
    Our SMSM will do nothing.
    From day one of this fiasco it was always about getting THEM back at all costs.
    We need strong journalist from probably outside our corrupt country that have no ties or loyalty to this club. Scotland is what it is and that club was what it was. Even in death it breathes fear to anyone who dares to portray the truth about them being a new club.
    We fans were relevant when in the past we said no, will we be given that chance again??
    I will never go to a match were they are the opponents, ever.


  25. The incompetent self serving duplicitous nature of the SFA is perfectly exemplified here

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/scot_prem/7582025.stm

    From 2008. Compare and contrast with the position adopted now.

    The SFA are completely unfit for business. They are a conflicted, shot organisation. Scottish Football ( our national sport) will never properly progress as long as this organisation is headed by Campbell Ogilvie, and run by Stewart Regan , who is proving to be an incompetenent

    BBC article in full

    Scotland extends transfer window

    Shaun Maloney and Pedro Mendes have recently moved to Scotland
    The Scottish Football Association has extended the summer transfer window by 24 hours to Monday 1 September.
    “A significant number of associations have decided to move the closure of their window,” read an SFA statement.
    “It would seem to make sense to assist our clubs and ensure that they are not disadvantaged in any way when trying to sign players prior to the deadline.”
    Associations in England, Germany, Italy and the Netherlands have also moved their windows back to 1 September.
    Some associations will still be closing their window at midnight on Sunday 31 August and the SFA has moved to ensure this does not cause Scottish clubs any problems.
    “The SFA will make arrangements to have registration department cover on 31 August as well as 1 September to deal with all enquiries,” added the statement.
    After the 1 September deadline has passed, the transfer window will re-open on Thursday 1 January.


  26. amoamasamat says:
    September 1, 2013 at 4:28 pm
    ================================

    Max is listed as 26 just now – The piece I wrote which I copied-in was written a year ago.

    However I note that Rangers CEO Craig Mather has left as a director of Simply Sport Management Ltd on 8 August 2013. He was a founding director of the company on 20 December 2011 along with his business partner GUY GISBORNE – each director held 26% of the shareholding.

    I wonder if he felt there might be a conflict of interest with his role at Rangers?


  27. In light of the draft 5 Way Agreement why didn’t SPL lawyer Rod McKenzie instruct/advise the Lord Nimmo Smith Commission that Sevco(TRFCL) had agreed to be liable for any SPL sanctions; “become liable and responsible for the purpose of imposition of sanctions by the SPL for any and all acts and/or omissions of RFC and/or Rangers FC which predated Completion”.
    http://www.scribd.com/doc/164607084/5-Way-Agreement-As-issued-to-all-parties-for-signature

    Instead the LNS commission in it’s wisdom fines RFCplc(IL) £250,000,a totally meaningless punishment for the dual contracts/undisclosed payments scandal.
    Could this be construed as a breach of the 5WA or just down to plain stupidity/ignorance by SPL/McKenzie?(Intentional or otherwise).


  28. ecobhoy says:
    September 1, 2013 at 3:40 pm

    “So we have Zeus right at the start of the consortium from the very beginning and now we apparently have Richard Hughes at the middle of what, to me, seems to be a bizarre pledge not to take legal action against the Hampden mafia”
    ———————————
    Zeus have a connection through Octopus to Ticketus. I read briefly, to refresh my recollection, that Octopus funded Zeus and their connection to Ticketus is clearer. There had been discussions about whether Ticketus’ contract with RFC(IA/IL) would survive the insolvency event. As Ticketus were always likely to pursue their interest then the handling of a Rangers licence transfer may have been of significant interest to them. Perhaps the execution of the shenanigans might have been vulnerable to Octopus/Ticketus looking to recoup their losses. Might Zeus involvement be the continuation of this interest and the clause in the 5 way agreement be designed to provide comfort to the SFA that their web would not be broken by such interested parties. Perhaps this was part of the engineering that allowed a Ticketus interest to survive the insolvency event?


  29. Castofthousands says:
    September 1, 2013 at 6:22 pm

    Might Zeus involvement be the continuation of this interest and the clause in the 5 way agreement be designed to provide comfort to the SFA that their web would not be broken by such interested parties. Perhaps this was part of the engineering that allowed a Ticketus interest to survive the insolvency event?
    ==================================================================
    You know CoT I like your Ticketus notion even better than my Rizvi one although they possibly aren’t mutually exclusive.

    The key section of the 5-way draft supplied by CF would be: ‘ . . . and Mr Richard Hughes (as a shareholder) shall not commence, or threaten to commence, any proceedings in any jurisdiction before any court, arbitration or other similar judicial body against the Released Parties (including by way of third party claims in any other action) arising out of or connected, whether directly or indirectly, with any of the Claims or any other matter addressed in this Agreement’.

    Obviously when they talk about Hughes as a shareholder I have to assume that is as a Sevco Scotland subsequently TRFCL shareholder. A lot could be read into: “(including by way of third party claims in any other action) arising out of or connected, whether directly or indirectly, with any of the Claims or any other matter addressed in this Agreement.”


  30. I note a bit more Rangers directorship shuffling.

    Craig Mather and Brian Stockbridge have both joined the board of Rangers FC Development Fund Ltd wef 1 August 2013. Both have also become directors of the two subsidiary companies of Rangers FC Development Fund Ltd.

    These are Rangers Enterprises Ltd and Rangers Lotteries Ltd.


  31. Given the complete abandonment of any notion of a legal basis or even a constitutional basis for the purposes of Football governance of what actually constitutes a football club in any disciplinary or regulatory framework acknowledged in the 5 way agreement which permitted the continuation of Rangers as a club despite Rangers Being liquidated, and in direct contravention of the stated rules of the SFA, it is now crystal clear that Rangers as constituted have been allowed to play despute being ineligible under the previously stated rules by dint of an ultra vires agreement. They are not properly constituted. The very fact that all other clubs have agreed to accept an ineligible organisation as a registered club probably invalidates the entire operation of Scottish Football.
    Should any wider governing body investigate (unlikely I know) then potentially SFA and all member clubs, national sides and any other officials operating under the SFA auspices could be suspended or expelled from the international governance of the game by both UEFA and FIFA.
    The SFA destroyed football as a sport to allow a parcel of spuvs to operate a bogus club and facilitated the theft and deception of cash from all fans and investors who backed SEVCO believing them to be Rangers Football Club.
    It is the single greatest failure of governance in Modern Football – anywhere. This goes beyond match fixing and league fixing to fixing the definitions of clubs, leagues, assiciations and the fundaments upon which the sport is built.
    No condemnation could be too great for the calumny that is this agreement. It docunents nothing less than te destruction of football as a sport in Scotland.


  32. Is it just me, or is Charlotte Fakes MkII now making it impossible for the media to continue to ignore her, at least on the basis of previous reservations?


  33. Please don’t take us to court over our promise to have you back in SPL that we couldnae deliver, and you maybe took a punt on.


  34. I am willing to go to Hampden and hand out leaflets to expose the corruption at the heart of the game,I think Friday would be a good time,is anyone interested, I would also like to talk about the possibility of a fund to take the SFA to court for neglecting the national sport,the time for taking a more direct approach s surely here.


  35. The Five Way Agreement has always had the potential to be the undoing of this confidence trick. In fact I think TSFM or someone on here said many months ago that the 5WA was the key to the whole charade.

    The veil of secrecy cast over it, ironically threw a spotlight on its contents.

    The clubs have largely remained silent on whether the agreement was circulated before being approved, allowing them to tacitly point the finger at the boards of the SFA & SFL (as if they are somehow detached from the clubs 🙂 ).

    Two sources have confirmed to me in the last week that (at least) Partick Thistle and Hearts had sight of the final draft and another source close to a major SPL club says he would be “absolutely astounded” if the clubs had not had sight of it.

    Perhaps it would might compel clubs to be more transparent if direct questions were asked by shareholders or fan groups at stakeholder meetings and AGMs. Getting the clubs to go on the record is proving to be extremely difficult. I think the thing is such a hot potato that they would be wary of direct lies on the record – so expect more obfuscation. It only requires one club to breach the dam.


  36. torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958) says:
    September 1, 2013 at 7:36 pm
    1 0
    ————

    What mirth and merriment on the first audio. Craig Whyte’s laugh is hilarious. A welcome bit of light relief, Mr Whitehouse might no be impressed by this becoming public knowledge though.


  37. Do we know when these new audio files are from.

    I can understand Whyte talking to Grier like this, as he helped him set up the deal to buy Rangers. However they seem to also be referring to Whitehouse and Clark in very friendly terms.

    As I recall when they were appointed administrators it was painted as if they had no previous connection to Whyte and were very much not conflicted.

    The timing of this audio might be very interesting.


  38. Well – first all his stuff disappears – then back he comes with tapes of conversations with Grier showing personal details we all know he does not want in the public eye – and definitely not to be shared with his family

    Something tells me there is a connection between the take down and Grier

    Old saying – those who live in greenhouses do not gather moss! Or something like that haha!!!

    After another huge mishap whereby SFA closed the transfer window early to cover up their ineptitude in making the 5 way agreement water tight, I have no sympathy for any of them anymore. The quicker they all quit and leave us the better

    Any tapes on CO on his night out? His EBT can pay for a lot of Spanish/Russian ladies or relatives of X-Factor contestants.


  39. Not sure that the audio clips add anything at all other than possibly destroying relationships and giving us personal info about people who aren’t involved in any way with the story that interests posters on here. All a tad tacky I’m afraid.


  40. ecobhoy says:
    September 1, 2013 at 8:34 pm

    I disagree.

    They could possibly re-inforce the belief that the men who ran the administration were seriously conflicted when they were doing it. If it’s the same Whitehouse and Clark they are referring to of course.


  41. Ecobhoy – what if CW learning all these items led to shall we say – pressure – to D&P to do what he wanted? Would it be so irrelevant then?


  42. What the tapes appear to show is a close relationship between Whyte and senior employees of Duff & Phelps, which casts doubts on the impartiality of D&P to act as administrators

    But of course, we knew all of that already, but it’s nice to have some additional confirmation


  43. Agreed joe and as Exiledcelt points out it is the kind of material which may have given him some, shall we say leverage, over the people who were supposed to be sorting things out.

    Maybe his desperation to ensure it was D&P makes even more sense now. It’s apparently the only thing he ever really panicked about.


  44. wrt to the tapes;

    I did laugh at the reference to the “Griffin”assuming its the one on Bath Street opposite The KIngs Theatre. Took me back to when i stayed in Baird Hall (The Beresford) as a young undergraduate. There was a great old Glasgow Dame who ruled the bar. A no nonsense approach to young students or theatre lovies, something that is missing in this whole saga.


  45. Tif Finn

    Never mind the women involved, it seems all of the main players have been in bed with each other 😛


  46. campsiejoe says:
    September 1, 2013 at 8:47 pm
    2 0 Rate This

    What the tapes appear to show is a relationship between Whyte and senior employees of Duff & Phelps, which casts doubts on the impartiality of D&P to act as administrators

    But of course, we knew all of that already, but it’s nice to have some additional confirmation.
    —————-

    Bizarre stuff, but interesting bit towards the end when discussion of a future holiday with Grier and Bournemouth lass took place … Whyte saying that they could do it once ‘this crap … the football thing is over … sooner or later …’. So he was working to a short timetable with a predictable outcome?

    Been trying to place this in the timeline. Not necessarily after admin as Clark and Whitehouse were with him from the off. Big time chumminess between Whyte, Grier, Clark, Whitehouse … hmmm …


  47. Exiledcelt says:

    September 1, 2013 at 8:32 pm

    —————————————

    The SFA did not close the window early, they just didn’t extend it when given the option. I see nothing wrong with that.


  48. The new audio from CtH is tacky and sordid, and adds nothing whatsoever to the discussion. In fact any credibility that CtH may have earned up to now will surely be damaged. These snippets reveal Charlotte to be petty, vindictive, spiteful and salacious.

    Given the insistence in the 5WA that Sevco should undertake not to seek legal remedies over disputes with the authorities, there is a readily arrived at inference that someone at the SFA or SPL had been guilty of some kind of wrongdoing at worst or of behaviour unacceptable to the public. I can’t believe that the audio library from where these nasty wee bits of gossip emanate does not include recorded conversations with the SFA or SPL.

    If CtH is really an altruistic or outrages whistleblower, she would be better served by publishing matters relevant to this instead of what the agenda-led cherry-picking that is nothing more than a thinly disguised attempt at extortion or revenge.

    My take is that CtH is now seriously tainted, however potentially important any subsequent revelations may be.


  49. martin c says:
    September 1, 2013 at 8:53 pm

    Pie beans and chips, with a pint of Velvet … £2.50.

    That’s how far back I can remember the Griffin.

    Apologies for OT, carry on.


  50. Danish Pastry says:
    September 1, 2013 at 8:57 pm

    Certainly seems that way, doesn’t it
    Whyte, Green, and the latest rescuers are all in it for one thing, and one thing only
    A short route to a lot of cash for themselves


  51. Madbhoy – ok they did not extend it to be the same as Spain/England/Germany etc – but early or later – its semantics. They are leaving its members open to being either unable to close a deal because for example Man Utd have not signed Baines yet so cannot let their reserve left back go to Celtic – if it happens tomorrow, he will go to Turkey instead,

    If someone comes in and offers money to anyone like Forster or Mackay-Smith today and the clubs take it since its silly money or they need it, they have no ability to get a replacement until Jan now.

    SFA are meant to look after ALL their members – not just one!


  52. TSFM says:
    September 1, 2013 at 9:01 pm

    Again, I disagree. It paints a picture of the relationship between Whyte and Grier and by the subjects discussed Whitehouse and Clark.

    To me this is some of the most important stuff I have heard from the audio released. This was so much more than a professional relationship he had, and for them to be discussing the people who either were, or would become the administrators in these terms really is dynamite in my view.

    The fact that it is tawdry gives me no pleasure whatsoever, schadenfreude is an ugly word. However it does go to the character, or lack thereof, of the people concerned.


  53. Madbhoy24941 says:

    September 1, 2013 at 8:59 pm (Edit)

    The SFA did not close the window early, they just didn’t extend it when given the option. I see nothing wrong with that.
    ___________________________________________________-

    On the face of it there is nothing wrong with it – except that it puts Scottish clubs at a disadvantage where they could lose key players over the next few days with no possibility of replacements.
    There is also precedent where the SFA previously took the pragmatic course and extended the window to prevent that anomaly arising.

    They refused this time to prevent TRFC from circumventing the registration embargo further. In other words, ALL clubs are being punished for RFC’s transgressions as a result of the SFA being unable to author a diddy-proof clause in their 5WA.


  54. TSFM says:
    September 1, 2013 at 9:01 pm

    Sorry TSFM, but I have to disagree with you
    While the tapes are somewhat salacious in their nature, they do show a very unhealthy relationship between Whyte, and the company appointed to look after the best interests of the creditors


  55. campsiejoe says:
    September 1, 2013 at 9:03 pm
    1 0 Rate This

    Certainly seems that way, doesn’t it
    Whyte, Green, and the latest rescuers are all in it for …
    ———-
    Aye, I’m surprised some of the leading lights here are dismissing it as trash. I think you have to tune in with a very selective filter. There’s very reveailng stuff on certain frequencies, in a manner of speaking.


  56. I think they actually helped Rangers by not extending it.

    Had the window been open on Monday then the fans would have expected the club to use it. Where would the money have come from. No cash and no credit.

    Rangers know they have well more than enough to win the league, no need to spend money on transfers or extra wages. It would have been a disaster for them if they would have been able to spend on Monday. The fans would have been revolting when it didn’t happen.


  57. Tif Finn says:

    September 1, 2013 at 9:06 pm (Edit)
    TSFM says:
    September 1, 2013 at 9:01 pm

    Again, I disagree. It paints a picture of the relationship between Whyte and Grier and by the subjects discussed Whitehouse and Clark.

    To me this is some of the most important stuff I have heard from the audio released. This was so much more than a professional relationship he had, and for them to be discussing the people who either were, or would become the administrators in these terms really is dynamite in my view.

    The fact that it is tawdry gives me no pleasure whatsoever, schadenfreude is an ugly word. However it does go to the character, or lack thereof, of the people concerned.
    ____________________________________________________________

    We already know the character of those concerned. Links have already been (less tenuously) demonstrated between Whitehouse, Clark and Whyte through Grier in previous tapes.

    Also, Grier was already a colleague of Whitehouse and Clark. No surprise he’s giving them a bit f a ribbing in their absence. No surprise that Whyte joins in.

    Nothing at all has been added – unless you weren’t aware of the previously released stuff.


  58. Tif Finn says:
    September 1, 2013 at 9:12 pm

    The fans would have been revolting when it didn’t happen.
    ————————————————————-

    Most are already!!


  59. TSFM says:

    September 1, 2013 at 12:44 pm

    ……………………but mainly because erudite and articulate ex-footballers are a bit thin on the ground.
    =================================================================================TSFM as always you are the epitome of discretion, but shurely you cannot be referring to such ace contributors to the “meeja” as Derek Johnstone, Mark Hately, Craig Burley and a host of similar non-entities?…shame on you!…this can only be likened to pulling teeth, and without an anaesthetic…!

    I deliberately exclude the meeja’s favourite “bookworm” Pat Nevin, who is hardly worthy of mention on account of his “nonentiness”.


  60. campsiejoe says:

    September 1, 2013 at 9:07 pm
    TSFM says:
    September 1, 2013 at 9:01 pm

    Sorry TSFM, but I have to disagree with you
    While the tapes are somewhat salacious in their nature, they do show a very unhealthy relationship between Whyte, and the company appointed to look after the best interests of the creditors
    __________________________________________________________________________

    Joe,
    I get what you say, but all that info was out there already. This is just plain spite, and a scurry of squirrels.


  61. In the first audio clip, was Grier talking to Jack Irvine around the 1.50 mark? He only refers to the name “Jack”


  62. TSFM says:
    September 1, 2013 at 9:21 pm

    It could also be revenge, following on from yesterday’s events


  63. essexbeancounter says:

    September 1, 2013 at 9:18 pm

    TSFM says:

    September 1, 2013 at 12:44 pm

    ……………………but mainly because erudite and articulate ex-footballers are a bit thin on the ground.
    =================================================================================TSFM as always you are the epitome of discretion, but shurely you cannot be referring to such ace contributors to the “meeja” as Derek Johnstone, Mark Hately, Craig Burley and a host of similar non-entities?…shame on you!…this can only be likened to pulling teeth, and without an anaesthetic…!

    I deliberately exclude the meeja’s favourite “bookworm” Pat Nevin, who is hardly worthy of mention on account of his “nonentiness”.
    __________________________________________________________________________-

    EBC
    I agree with you almost completely. Right up to the bit where you mention Nevin 🙂


  64. The transfer window closing earlier than other countries cannot be anything to do with sevco. The 5WA clearly shows the date that the registration ban was to end, without mention of the transfer window.


  65. Can anyone offer an explanation as to how the high heid-yins in the SFA and the SPFL are still in situ?

    How have they managed to ride this storm?


  66. TSFM says:
    September 1, 2013 at 9:16 pm

    I am well aware of the previously released material and this is on an entirely different planet.

    They were quick to deny a conflict at the time, it was one of the first things they covered.

    http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/rangers-in-crisis-ibrox-administrators-try-1116999

    However guess who would be the first to get paid from any money raised, and it isn’t the creditors. Not even the secured one’s.

    Do you genuinely think that if this material had been available at the time then these men would have been allowed to be joint administrators of Rangers, or to work towards Whyte / Green’s plan, or to shaft the creditors as badly as they did.

    It is absolutely appalling, and this material really is dramatic. Not because of it’s tawdry nature, because of what it shows. They were all mates, discussing their affairs and holidays together.


  67. TSFM – Nothing at all has been added – unless you weren’t aware of the previously released stuff.

    I disagree – I did not know why D&P were so willing to go against their legal training and put their careers and themselves on the line…….for what?

    Now we know there is a little bit more – buying cars/flats/holidays – that means expenses they have they need to meet and keep secret. Plus now other can pressure them.

    Now we have motives – and now its less of a puzzle why highly trained and educated men went into league with a band of spivs……


  68. Tif Finn says:

    September 1, 2013 at 9:27 pm (Edit)

    TSFM says:
    September 1, 2013 at 9:16 pm

    I am well aware of the previously released material and this is on an entirely different planet.
    ____________________________________________________________________________

    If it was, I would agree with you. However the conflict of interest component of tonight’s nonsense is nowhere near as damning as the previously released material. It is full of implication and no direct evidence of conflict (like in the previous tapes).

    It’s just tawdry – and at the very least, CtH should have considered carefully what was being released. Basic News of the Screws stuff..

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