We spend an inordinate amount of time on this blog arguing about what the re-emergent Rangers should be called. It is a rather circular debate with no way of finding any consensus. The dispute between Rangers (“The Rangerists”) or The Rangers or Sevco (“The Sevconians”) and its claim to be the club that was formed in the 19th century is spurious. Whichever way you look at it, the continuity of the “brand” is undeniable and as long those who wish to keep buying that package are satisfied that the wrapping is authentic – where’s the harm?
The red herring in the argument is that “history” is important. To the average football fan, it is nothing of the kind. As a Celtic fan myself, and a bit of a student of the history of the club, I am constantly dismayed by the Thousand Yard Stare I get from your average Celtic fan who is confronted with the names of people who contributed significantly to the club’s identity. Key figures like Sandy McMahon, Jimmy Delaney, Jimmy McGrory and (God help us) John Thomson rarely elicit recognition.
Modern football fans who live in the instant gratification society of the the WWW and mobile communications may pay lip service to their clubs’ history, but that’s not what gives the modern football fan wears as his badge of honour. That is a commodity often erroneously confused with history – the bragging rights associated with the trophy haul.
The ability to claim that “we have more titles than you” is far more valuable to a supporter than which 19th century attacking centre-back won the Scottish Cup with a last minute header; and the value of said cup wins is heavily weighted in favour of the most recent (save for the honourable exception of the European successes).
The maintenance of that illusion of superiority is crucial if Rangers fans are to believe that their club is still Rangers. Perhaps in time they may even come to fully believe it themselves, but the cataract of column inches devoted to propagating that myth, both from the MSM and from information outlets controlled by Charles Green’s organisation, betrays a lack of total belief by the chief Bear-existentialists. Protesting too much may not be subtle, but that never put off your average fitba’ man either.
The upshot though is this. There is a belief – or at least a hope – amongst Rangerists that the continuity argument holds. They will call the new club Rangers. Fans of other clubs who make up the vast majority of the Sevconian tendency, believe nothing of the kind. They will call it something else.
Many will remind Rangerists that the old club died, and this is factually correct (or at least will be very soon). Rangerists will counter that the Rangers ethos lives on at Ibrox, and despite the worrying overtones (for some) contained in that statement, that is also factually correct.
Rangerists will also point out, as Rangers fans on this blog already have, that the SPL bent over backwards to assist the continuity of the club in order to minimise the financial consequences for Scottish football, and that the SFL too, have agreed that they are the same club.
Why? Simply because Scottish Football thinks it needs to help perpetrate they illusion of continuity to avoid the loss of thousands of paying customers to the game altogether.
So round one has gone to the Rangerists, with the Sevconians pretty much taking an eight-count.
So is the name thing important? I don’t think it is of critical importance. The name in itself doesn’t matter, but to merely agree that everything is as before is to join forces with the MSM, SFA & SPL who have sought to give RFC and their tax theft a pass.
Whatever happens in the future though, the illusion hasn’t worked completely. The Sevconians’ wish to call the new club by a different name was for the purpose of making it synonymous with tax evasion, however the name Rangers now evokes exactly that response. There is now a discernible pause when people mention Rangers. A pause that reflects on the dis-service they did to the country, and to the game of football in Scotland.
Which brings us to the really important point. Throughout this saga rules have been bent. Conflicted individuals, alleged to have been involved in the tax and registration scam and its subsequent cover-up, have remained in positions of authority and power, despite being under a cloud throughout. The media have been complicit, except in rare cases, in allowing the wrong-doing to go unquestioned, actively campaigning for rules not to be applied.
What we have been saying all along is this. Please play the game by the rules, and do not manufacture special cases for the financially powerful.
Call Rangers whatever you wish, but deal with their transgressions appropriately in the spirit of sporting fairness, and within the framework of the existing rules. That is the least – and most – we expect. We don’t ask for much. Just give us back some pride in our sport .
Not mine,from KDS.A good article,I think:
Today I fully expected to be writing something for the run-up to the Scotland game in Cardiff, but I made a promise to myself when I started this blog that it would focus on the wider issues facing our game, that I would reflect the mood and try and touch on what was making the headlines and prompting discussion.
Tough as it is, when I want to move on from it, there is still one story which drives all others before it, and that’s the continuing saga of Rangers.
Today is the day on which the liquidation of the oldco is formalised, and it raises a number of serious, and hard, questions, and I want to cover them, as well as some other stuff. But for now, let’s think about what today represents.
It’s the day on which a door closes on a part of Scottish football, a part which brings little credit to our national game. The dumping of over £100 million in toxic debts is the culmination of years of abuse, of years of shady practices, and it ends in one of the most disgraceful corporate scandals in the history of this county. In an earlier blog, I highlighted the human cost of these affairs, as it relates to monies withheld from the Treasury. I could have written, with equal parts anger and dismay, about the small businesses which suffered, the local traders who won’t get paid and the ordinary people left out of pocket. This is a Greek Tragedy.
I use that term very specifically, as I’ll explain shortly.
As heavy as today’s closing the book on Oldco Rangers is, it was never going to be the final word on this matter, or on this sordid affair. To be blunt, that could take years, and there is a growing likelihood that we will not know all the facts, or even a good percentage of them, before they see the light of day in a court of law. That is the measure of what we’re dealing with here. This is going to wind up in front of a judge, and possibly a jury.
Let’s talk then about the two diametrically opposed engines of a Greek Tragedy, the Dionysian and the Apollonian. The origin of the words themselves should tell those familiar with Greek mythology what each represents, but I’ll give you a brief recap.
Zeus, the ruler of the Olympians, had two sons, Dionysus and Apollo. Apollo was the God of the Sun, of order, of the arts, of creativity. Dionysus was the God of Wine, and his particular inspirations were in the areas of revelry, of enjoyment, of having a rare old time. These two very different characters, one motivated by intellect, the other by emotion, are the central planks of Greek Tragedy. It is easy to see which of the two has brought Rangers to this sorry pass.
Forget all the talk about a strategy that went wrong at Ibrox. The strategy was a surface thing only. The collapse of that club is a Dionysian tale if ever there was one. It was emotion, not intellect, which charted the course … with the horrendous results we all see today. The whole recent history of Rangers was a Dionysian construct, and the supporters in particular are 100% Dionysian in nature. Anyone who knows how to play them, who understands which buttons to push, can get any reaction they want, and, as someone who understands that clearly, I write this knowing full well it will annoy scores of them. Yet it’s true, and it never, ever changes.
For the sake of Rangers, and in a sense for Scottish football itself, the events which culminated, today, in the liquidation of the Oldco should have resulted in an Apollonian resurrection of this club, a realisation of everything that went wrong, something built, from that moment, on a rational, and sustainable, basis. In fact, when Charles Green’s takeover was complete, and he offered his apology for the club’s sins past, and that was echoed by the new chairman, Malcolm Murray, there was a moment when I thought that was exactly what they’d got. It would have been a great moment for the game here, a moment worthy of genuine celebration, had that been the case. Green, as an outsider, with none of the historical baggage, or background, in the cesspits of the West of Scotland, had a chance to transform the entire institution, and in doing so perform an enormous service to the whole of the Scottish game. I hoped it would be so.
But the nature of Rangers was never going to lend itself to that kind of change. No-one at Ibrox wanted to hear talk of healing, of atonement, of making amends, of reconstruction and of a long road back to the top. Study the language if you doubt it. Almost every phrase which has come to be connected with their present situation is a big Dionysian red flag. They are defiant, and proud. They don’t surrender, and they don’t do walking away. They are not seeking to build bridges but to build walls, with talk focussed on those who are arrayed against them, and endless monologues about conspiracy replacing more conciliatory discourse.
That talk has been replaced by the terminology of the vendetta; Green talks about never forgiving, or forgetting. He fosters resentment like a farmer planting the seeds of a future harvest, either ignorant of, or not caring about, the damage that will do to relations between his club and others, between the governing bodies, between individual clubs themselves and, most importantly, to the relations between the fans of his team and those of other sides. He feeds the lynch mob tendency, gives fuel to the paranoid fantasists and artlessly tends to the egos of the supremacists.
In this, he is aided and abetted by the manager, Ally McCoist, who understands very well this Dionysian mind-set, as he grew up bathed in the culture.
Furthermore, Green dictates terms, like a war leader, with demands for change and for respect, as if he had won every battle since taking over instead of beating a series of retreats. Listening to him lately, you forget he didn’t start out this way; when he made his apology to Scottish football shortly after taking over, he spoke about respecting other clubs feelings, and about why the general mood might be to impose the rules, rather than make an exception, and he understood this, he said, and was ready to live with whatever they eventually decided.
Am I suggesting that Green had positive motives at the start? I would not go as far as that. He has a reputation which was known well before he arrived in this city, with, amongst others, the fans of Sheffield United ready to testify about his way of doing business. He had a string of dissolutions and failed companies the equal of Craig Whyte, and the contemptuous way he spoke about the other interested parties, amongst them Rangers legend Walter Smith, and former director Paul Murray, was full of the arrogance we have lately come to recognise. He struck me then, as now, as a cowboy, interested in the quick buck, with no grand plan beyond that.
Yet, his early tenure could have offered optimism and hope, instead of bitterness, recrimination and a further lurch into the darkness. Oddly, Green is an Apollonian by nature. He likes order. He likes to do things in a very structured way. He is a typical “hard-nosed businessman”, interested only in the bottom line, and in getting things done.
When at Sheffield United, the source of much of the trouble was the open and straightforward way he did things. If there was division – and there was, lots of it – it is because he preferred to confront the fans with the necessity of change, with the sharp edged sword of truth. He told them to like or lump it, because he knew better, he said, and their opinions be damned.
He started out like a man fully prepared to do the same at Rangers, and he did not have to preside over a period that divided the game. In that I think his hand was forced. He surely would not have set out to do things this way. It’s all become a bit shambolic and haywire.
What went wrong? I think, for a start, the arrival on the scene of Smith, who’s takeover attempts were ill-judged and embarrassingly late in the day. Green’s dismissal of this consortium led to the insanely overblown attempted counter-revolution by John Brown, which, although it was a transparent nonsense, laughably executed, and vaguely sinister, had the crazy backing of perhaps the most Dionysian media in the world.
So it was that from almost the day he was in the door, Green was faced with the most reactionary elements of the club pressuring him, pushing him in a different direction from he intended. Green knows football fans, and the Rangers fans in particular are well known, with proclivities which are not exactly a secret. It is also clear that Green was, at an early stage, in touch with the PR firm Media House, and so he’d have known how “pliable” the Scottish press can be. With money invested in the club, either his or someone else’s, and a need to recoup it quickly, any campaign which sought to deprive the club of cash was highly dangerous to him.
And so he changed his tune. Talking rationally, about hard choices, trying to build bridges and open dialogue, was not what the fans wanted. John Brown was talking about enemies within, and enemies without, and the fans and press were lapping it up – Hugh Keevins in particular was keen to share his enthusiasm for Brown and his “style” – and Green didn’t need highly paid public relations advisors to tell him what he should do next. The second Brown’s voice dropped below a shriek, Green began to play to the gallery himself, and he’s not stopped since.
Now, with the share issue looming, he is making ever more grandiose statements, keeping the press writing war stories, and lowering the tone of debate. To the untrained eye, this is all a sop to keep his supporters interested in his “vision”, but there’s more going on. I look at Green these days, at the glint in his eye, and I see a man who can’t believe his luck.
His experience at Sheffield United would have prepared him for criticism and hard times. It would have given him the stomach for a fight, even if that fight was with his own fans. With his wide-boy mentality he would have been fully prepared for the hard-sell if that’s what it took. Indeed, he is rumoured to have told Brown that he could close the gates of Ibrox forever if he had a mind, and it seems clear he would have presented the fans with a straight choice between their club living and dying, and then told them the cost of saving it. Faced with that choice, I have little doubt Rangers fans would have come up with much of the cash required, and between them and those, like Smith, waiting in the wings, Green would have gotten the investors enough to walk away without a second thought or a backward glance. Indeed, his early statements make it abundantly clear that a sharp exit is exactly what he had in mind. There is no such talk now.
Yet the plan hasn’t changed. Only the means of accomplishing it have. Green has sussed that brutal truth is not needed here. He does not need to make friends amongst the other clubs. He does not have to deal respectfully with the authorities, or even need to be in the SPL, in order to make the club seem credible to outsiders.
Why should he, when he can rely on the “goodwill” of 30,000 supporters each week, and a media which laps up his every utterance, as they did with Whyte before him? These are all the “credibility” he needs.
The plan was never to attract outside investors. He knows the market – football as a whole – does not support that. There is no money to be made in the game any longer. Even those clubs which are “swimming in cash” are no longer rich. Indeed, many languish in debts which in another business would have pushed them to the wall in the way Rangers were. No, the plan was always to get the Rangers fans to buy him out, but whereas Green initially believed he could accomplish this by telling them it was invest or die, he has found out there’s an easier road.
Instead of assassins in the shadows, which he must have expected, many of the fans now form Green’s praetorian guard. To get them onside, all he needed was an understanding of the Dionysian nature of the Rangers support; the visceral, the emotional, the irrational. He spoke the language they wanted to hear, and regardless of whether he believes it or not, it’s worked out splendidly for him. He now has them amped up and hanging on his every word.
Sadly, for Charles Green, and tragically for the game here, it won’t be enough. In taking the low road he has abandoned his better judgement, and his own business instincts.
The plan he originally intended following, wholly Apollonian in concept, depended on the Dionysian characteristics of the Rangers support, but it was structured more rationally, and would have stood up to scrutiny, because at its core it would essentially have been true in its nature.
In embracing Dionysus, Green has abandoned common sense. In pitching to the gut reactions of the Rangers supporters, and the wishful thinking of a media which wants a return to the way things were before, he seems now to say whatever pops into his head. For a man supposed to be engaged in a serious endeavour, today’s statements, to an audience of business journalists, were without merit of any kind. His grasp on facts was virtually non-existent. His projections for Rangers’ earnings were pie-in-the-sky nonsense of the worst kind, as anyone with even the tiniest knowledge of football finance must have recognized in an instant.
He was patronising, insulting English Premiership clubs in a ludicrous, incontinent rant. He should be embarrassed that whilst sitting in front of financial experts he wrongly claimed Aston Villa earn £250 million annually – his quoted figures were £158 million out – but even worse, he then compounded his shame by contemptuously referring to the EPL club as “completely useless.” That comment is so crass, unprofessional and heedless his audience must have been appalled. A man in front of those writers should have been weighed down with facts. He should have been clear-headed and competent. Instead, he was scandalously unprepared, lax and pulling numbers out of thin air to support his increasingly ridiculous claims.
A brief flavour of them, just to offer a taste.
He stated that in the last eight years Rangers have spent £100 million on transfers, and brought in just £5 million. The first figure is nonsense, the second is either contemptible ignorance or something worse. One deal in the last 12 months – the sale of Nikica Jelavic to Everton – brought in more than that. Not knowing the big stuff is bad. Not knowing the basics, and his club’s transfer income in recent years is pretty basic, is unforgivable.
The man whose team has just been beaten by the bottom club in Scotland’s professional league structure then offered his prediction, apparently in all seriousness, that if the European leagues were restructured with the top 36 clubs playing in two top divisions, that his side would certainly be involved. Presumably Aston Villa, a former Champions Cup winner, won’t be.
Not content merely with insulting clubs in England, he then insulted every club in this country outside the SPL (and insulting them was not far from his mind, or tongue), when he talked about how the club assumed they would “meander back to the top division in Scotland …” This was shortly after he’d bizarrely claimed the club could make money by denying all access to the press, doing everything through the club’s own outlets, and, it must be presumed, charging fans for the privilege of knowing what’s going on with their team. This, by the way, was stated as his explicit intention.
This would be an unprecedented step, potentially breaching a number of commercial contracts, and risking the ire of the entire Scottish press corps. I look forward to seeing how they cover this particular claim in the next couple of days.
He talked about football coverage “migrating to the web”, using the example of Youview purchasing “just a few” Premiership matches for £738 million. Was he truly ignorant as to the details of that deal, which would be bad, or just gilding the lily and hoping no-one amongst his audience would have a grasp on them? Youview is a pay-per-view TV and online network being developed by BT Vision, as a rival to the virtual hegemony of Sky. Far from giving clubs greater flexibility, deals like this will tie them even more tightly to the big broadcasters. And how many matches are “just a few”?
Try a two-deal package of 38 games.
He talked about the “financial benefits” of Scottish football, offering, as his carrot, the “guarantee” of European football every year. He suggested that an investment of £50 million for this dubious advantage would not be too high a price to pay.
Even if this were true, and there are no numbers which come close to bearing it out, his own club is facing a guaranteed minimum of two more years where they won’t even be eligible to play at that level.
His turnover predictions were fanciful. He forecast £100 million annual income eventually, based on speculative nonsense like £5 – 10 million in rent from properties not yet built, or even planned; on merchandising reaching maximum earnings beyond those the club has ever had before; sponsorship worth as much as £40 million (where this came from I have no idea), and a leap in earnings once they are in Europe which would necessitate reaching the latter stages (the quarter finals at least) in the Champions League every single season.
Even his statements about the £20 million he’s seeking were bizarre, and contradictory. He talked about his “investors” getting 100% returns on their cash, which presumably would remove as much as £10 million from the pot, as well as putting some away for Ally McCoist and investing in infrastructure. His plans in that area involved building a bar.
“In Scotland you can’t get a drink unless you’re in a members club. We’ve got a club that costs you £700 a year for membership. I’ve got a stand behind the goal with nothing behind it – stick a bar in there, cost you £1m,” he said, in a bewildering statement. It is hard to know which part of it is the most mad; the notion of spending £1 million on starting a pub or the idea he has never been in a Weatherspoons.
What might be even more surprising, to Celtic and others, I would assume, is the notion that this amazing investment would earn the club £2 million in annual profits. One can only wonder, with horror, at the likely price of a pint.
Furthermore, every one of his financial projections depends on being in Scotland’s top division, and yet he has openly said he doesn’t want to take a place in it, even if his club were to secure it, if it exists in its present form.
Although it’s the foundation stone of his entire business plan, he appears to be making his club’s participation in that league conditional on a number of his demands being met – an instance of egotism I find hard to credit as rational.
None of this is even vaguely credible, yet it was all satisfyingly received by the Dionysian support who were similarly seduced last year by the Great Whyte Hype, and talk of £25 million “transfer war-chests” and “off the radar wealth.” An Apollonian support – one which would suspend its fondest dreams to look critically at this stuff – would not accept being spoon-fed ignorant nonsense like this. Rangers fan sites are almost orgasmic with joy.
Yet it is their money Green wants. No “institutional investor” – the stated target audience for today’s shambolic interview – would entertain this guy, based on this display.
Which serious corporate or personal portfolio manager would go back to a client and recommend this deal, based on a mass of disreputable garbage like this, even if the investment itself was not in an un-disclosed segment of a phoenix company, emerging from the ashes of a liquidation?
Green’s statements are crowd pleasers, intended for a very specific, and narrow, audience, but they do enormous damage to the credibility of the club itself, and with it the reputation of the Scottish game.
The potential damage, should Rangers again tumble into a nightmare of debts, administration and even another liquidation would be simply staggering.
They might bring about the very “financial Armageddon” which was predicted this summer. The overall standing of our game would certainly never recover from it.
Rangers fans have already seen their original shares wiped out. In spite of Green’s statements about the club living on, their claim to own part of it does not. I don’t know how they square that circle, and as it’s not my money I don’t particularly care, but they should definitely think on it, and examine the inconsistencies and outright falsehoods, in the statements above, before they give this man another penny of their cash. Frankly, he insults them with displays like that. He is banking not on their tendency towards gut reactions but on the notion they are simply incapable of thought. He is calling them stupid, and he is doing it quite blatantly.
They should seek clarification on exactly what they are being asked to buy, as well as details on exactly where the money will be going. If it’s for capital investment, in his talked about bars for instance, then all well and good. Capital investment is credible, and laudable, even if the numbers he’s quoting are on the preposterous side.
If it’s to go in a bank account for the manager to spend on more substandard players, at a future time, I would be concerned.
If it’s for “running costs”, for day to day stuff, then I would be deathly afraid, because the club is already perilously close to being skint.
Rangers fans need to start thinking clearly about where their club is heading. They need to put aside all the conspiracy nonsense, their superiority complex, and start looking at the big picture. They will not like what they see at first, but Pepto-Bismol doesn’t look particularly good and it works like a charm. There may not be a spoon full of sugar to help the medicine go down either, but once the stuff starts to take effect they will feel a whole lot better. They have to start looking critically at what they read in the press, especially if it’s positive. The same media which cheered Craig Whyte to their front door is now behind the man who bought the club from him. Do they need reminding that these journalists also had a spell when they backed Walter Smith, and another where they were lining up behind John Brown? Was Green seen as credible then? These people also initially gave rave reviews to Bill Millar, and to the Asian consortium before him.
Who’s interests are they serving? We know Green is playing to the gallery, counting on ignorance to see him through. Some of our hacks have long played the same game, and at the Rangers fans expense. Their club would not be where it is today without writers, their papers, their radio shows and their contemptuous disregard for facts.
Experience has taught me to be suspicious when you hear just what you want to hear. How much longer can Rangers fans go on hoping everything will be alright, when the evidence to the contrary is as overwhelming as it is here?
They have to wake up sometime.
Doing that will involve a paradigm shift in their thinking. It will involve a suspension – perhaps even a rejection – of the Dionysian attitudes that have characterised the whole recent history of their club. I think that adjustment is probably far beyond them, and it’s not because they don’t have the intellect to grasp it but because there is a certain comfort in gut reactions, and in indulging in fantasy. There is a dark attraction to living in ignorance and hoping for the best, and over time retreating into that becomes a habit, and a habit as ingrained as this one is will be difficult, if not impossible, for the majority of them to break. It requires a full-scale cultural revolution in their ranks, and the idea will not find favour with enough of them to make it work.
Yet something has to give. Their club is only a few months old, and already there are strong rumours that it’s living on borrowed time. When Green is going to such extraordinary and desperate lengths to keep the fans onside, in order that they part with their cash, questions need to be asked about how bad things really are, and what the great urgency is to have this share issue right now.
This is a crucial juncture for them.
In Roman culture, there was no direct connection between their Apollo and the son of Zeus so beloved by the Greeks. It was the emperor Augustus who promoted Rome’s Apollonian tradition, but he had an ulterior motive in that he considered a special kinship existed between himself and the deity, and eventually claimed to be his son. This was a clear factor in strengthening Augustus’ power within Rome. In other words, it was an extremely clever strategy for maintaining control.
The Roman name for Dionysus is Bacchus. The temples built in his honour, and the celebrations in his name, as well as the cults which rose around it, were all about drinking, debauchery, free will, hedonism and abandon. They promoted the wildest orgies ever held. The Roman’s built temples to Bacchus as a way of raising morale amongst the people, and they were common constructions in times of social unrest or war. This too was, at first, a highly effective means of keeping control.
It took the Roman powers a while to realise that this was a mistake, that feeding the worst excesses of the mob was a bad idea, and that suchunrestricted behaviour erodes order, and discipline. Eventually the Senate grew concerned enough to ban the Bacchanalia almost entirely, except where they were subject to very strict rules.
The lesson should not be lost on the followers of Scotland’s fallen football giants. Sooner or later, the party has to end and then it’s time to face reality.
This would be a good time for them to start.
swap = swat
Agrajag @ 12:38
They will have to employ someone to weed out all of the spoof applications, and when he/she has finished, they will be lucky if there are 10,000 left on the list
campsiejoe says:
Saturday, October 13, 2012 at 12:49
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The out and out spoofs, like have been posted here, will be reasonable straightforward. It’s the frivolous applications which will be more of a problem. The chaps who are just interested in seeing the material but have no interest in investing.
I have read that it will cost £3 to send out the Prospectus. So if you are right then that’s about £150,000 being spent with no prospect of a return.
Torryjohnbhoy
Well writen ! remember pegasus flew to close to the sun .
Agrajag says:
Saturday, October 13, 2012 at 10:14
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Thanks for posting up that ‘ Rangers Standard’ response
And it is truly a ‘standard’ response, because it is all based on ‘whataboutery’!
They never seem to have an actual refutation of anything said about them..
And as for “..It is not true because if Alex had taken the time to contact individual Waterstones and WH Smith stores and contact the HQ of both businesses, LIKE I DID, he would have been told that they have no reports of staff or branch intimidation ”
Smart store managers are certainly not going to invite trouble on themselves by telling the truth to an avowed and angry Rangers type!
AT’s blog was precisely about how the level of fear of physical danger from the Ibrox mob affects the man-in-the-street, as well as about how fear of the possible effects on journalistic careers, and of social ostracism by their colleagues, turns those of our editors and journalists who do not already cheerfully act as PR men for the mob into compliant, fearful yes-men who keep their heads down and betray any principles of journalism that they once have subscribed to..
The share issue will take care of itself and I have no interest in it. Fail or suceed unless your a sevconian who gives a flying ….
The main issues still remain unanswered and everyone who wants justice, the pressure for the truth must be pursued, alex thomson is correct in what he is saying, if this whole messy saga goes unchecked and is allowed to be swept back under the carpet , we will never move forward as much as we dont want the poltics to come into it, it has! so not only are the media holding the broom or senior politicians are also helping by holding up the carpet !!
seperate issues……
1)POLITICALLY ISSUE, Why havent we heard from polticians relating to the alleged FFFT are they waiting for the final outcome like everyone else before they feel the need comment or do they think it’s a footballing matter? As public servants they should be under alot more pressure to give answers
2)FOOTBALLING ISSUE, SFA, SPL, SFL are at best a joke to allow this to happen, all hiding behind one another and no one taking ownership of this issues. Thier club members for not speaking out fully on the issue with no further involvement other than the integrity issue.(which is the only positive in the whole saga) you would think after all this, the main governing bodies would have had more pressure from all the clubs to restructure the way our game is run to give us some sort of credibility back but NO , everyone seems to be waiting and waiting, I suppose we have waiting this long but once the waiting is over WE NEED MAJOR CHANGES WITHIN GAME, to start with one “unified governing body” for all of Scottish football would be a breath of fresh air, rather than the stench seeping out from below the carpet.
apologies, 1) should read political issue doh !
not as bright as some postesters on this great site but just a passionate about the truth and fairplay , for everyone!! it’s a fairshout, NO?
john clarke says:
Saturday, October 13, 2012 at 13:30
The members on follow follow lapped it up.
The author certainly knows his audience
Long Time Lurker says:
Saturday, October 13, 2012 at 09:43
forweonlyknow says:
Saturday, October 13, 2012 at 00:06
…. I think RTC is making a serious point in that if the MSM in Scotland continue to recycle and print the PR nonsense that is being fed to them without question, then the MSM will become complicit in the ponzi scheme that is the TFRC share issue. Is RTC giving Mr Spiers et al a friendly warning, a reality check?
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“All I know is just what I read in the papers, and that’s an alibi for my ignorance.”
― Will Rogers
Correspondence from a top SPL CEO on the question of re structuring of the game within Scotland:
Edward
Thanks for your email which has been passed on to me.
As for your first point……I have a feeling that another 9 Chairmen in the 1st Division may well disagree with you!
Moving on to the reported forthcoming meetings between Messrs Green and Ogilvie; my take on this is that it has absolutely nothing to do with League reconstruction – it’s more about avoiding further embarrassment between the SFA and Rangers/The Rangers/ Sevco/Club 12…….call them what you will! Remember there have been numerous appearances before the compliance officer, charges, not proven verdicts, slanging matches in the press, ridiculous statements etc.etc. Clearly this can’t continue. Hence the proposed meeting.
As for League reconstruction: I’m aware that talks have recommenced between the SPL and the SFL. The clubs have not, as yet, had any briefings as to the latest thinking. As and when the debate reaches the clubs, I am sure that all relevant factors will be taken into account. After all, the SFL clubs have done the right thing up to now. I’m confident they will continue to so do.
Hope this puts your mind at rest.
Yours in sport.
Wonder if the shares prospectus including the potential riches of European Football and pedigree history will mention the 100,000 euro fine in April last year for chanting over two legs against Eindhoven that led to a costly and then very very costly away match ban against Malmo? Interested also to see if there’s any commitment to give the minimum 49% voting shares non-executive director’s placements on their Board. It’s not difficult to forecast what types will press nay demand seats on the Board. – And what could transpire as a result. The City boys know this, – they’re just too polite to spell it out.
john clarke says:
Saturday, October 13, 2012 at 13:30
The members on follow follow lapped it up.
The author certainly knows his audience
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lets face it JC
its not difficult to understand the “mob’s mentality” heaven forbid, chuckles had to sell something to decent fair minded folk , he would find it much more difficult.
twopanda says:
Saturday, October 13, 2012 at 13:57
==================================
I think you have a point.
Claims of 140 years history and being the same club may very well play to the support.
However people also remember some of the less savoury parts of that history. Manchester and what transpired there is not that long ago. How many people, other than Rangers fans themselves want any art of that history, want to associate themselves or their organisation with it.
The SFA’s official stance is that this is not the old club with 140 years of history. I don’t read the papers – anyone seen the SFA correcting Green to protect Scottish supporters and the Scottish game from what the SFA should view as wholly inaccurate reference to a former member club by another in order to raise funds/”revenue”?
TSFM Monitor. I assume you withdrew my earlier post and to be honest I’m glad you did
Agrajag says @ 14.23
140 years of history, with selective amnesia for the unsavoury aspects. Typical supremacist attitude – and ‘guff”
Agrajag says:
Saturday, October 13, 2012 at 14:23
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twopanda says:
Saturday, October 13, 2012 at 13:57
==================================
I think you have a point.
Claims of 140 years history and being the same club may very well play to the support.
However people also remember some of the less savoury parts of that history. Manchester and what transpired there is not that long ago. How many people, other than Rangers fans themselves want any art of that history, want to associate themselves or their organisation with it.
====================================================================
Well considering Sevco had only sold 600 ST till CG played the bigotry card ,I would say at least 35,400
Agrajag says:
Sorry should have made sure I read your post correctly before adding my tuppence worth
jonnyod says:
Saturday, October 13, 2012 at 15:59
Agrajag says:
Saturday, October 13, 2012 at 14:23
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Rate This
twopanda says:
Saturday, October 13, 2012 at 13:57
==================================
I think you have a point.
Claims of 140 years history and being the same club may very well play to the support.
However people also remember some of the less savoury parts of that history. Manchester and what transpired there is not that long ago. How many people, other than Rangers fans themselves want any art of that history, want to associate themselves or their organisation with it.
====================================================================
Well considering Sevco had only sold 600 ST till CG played the bigotry card ,I would say at least 35,400
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The problem facing Scottish football summed up in so few words. Sadly.
Congratulations to the Daily Record for taking the lead and showing a strong sense of morality in shutting down its football blog. They explain that the decision was taken because of so many sectarian comments, so much foul and abusive language, and they, after all, being a family newspaper.
Bravo, I say.
I assume they will shortly be opening up another blog where posters can continue to expose James Traynor and Hugh Keevins for the succulent lies they tell and misinformation they peddle, and where the up and coming ‘harambee’ – or share issue, as it has been described – can be scrutinized and commented upon freely and openly. I would hate to think that any ‘families’ will be screwed financially by a media which fails to expose these peepil to the truth.
Andrew Young @Hullbhoy
@RichardGordon48 Avge SPL attendances compared with last season. Hibs up 6%. Aberdeen 12%. Dundee Utd 15%. St Johnstone 19%. ICT 17%.
Agrajag says:
Saturday, October 13, 2012 at 16:10
—-
‘Andrew Young @Hullbhoy
@RichardGordon48 Avge SPL attendances compared with last season. Hibs up 6%. Aberdeen 12%. Dundee Utd 15%. St Johnstone 19%. ICT 17%.’
—–
That sounds good. Any of our money-men/statisticians able to translate those increases into gate receipts?
Not my figures
===============================
Viewing Single Post From: SPL Thread
Groves 11 Oct 2012, 10:25 AM
First-team captain
Group:
Snr. Member
Obviously there has been a lot of talk about armageddon and the possibility of SPL clubs going into administration by the doomsayers in the media and elsewhere. Here are the average home attendances so far for this season compared with last season’s average:
Celtic -11% (11-12)50904 (12-13)45349
Hearts -9% 13381 12207
Hibs +6% 9909 10464
Aberdeen +12% 9297 10426
Dundee Utd +15% 7482 8574
Motherwell 0% 5946 5894
Killie -6% 5537 5285
St Johnstone +19% 4170 4949
Caley Thistles +17% 4023 4687
St Mirren -5% 4493 4289
Ross County +66% 2873 4760
Dundee +32% 4224 5556
Obviously it is early in the season and a number of clubs still await their first visit of Celtic which will undoubtedly boost their averages. This includes the big 4 of Hearts, Hibs, Aberdeen and Dundee Utd. The numbers at St Mirren and Killie (assuming no boycott) will also probably turn positive once Celtic have played there.
In financial terms the likes of Aberdeen and Dundee Utd could be looking at additional revenues in excess of £500k if the numbers are maintained over the season. The figures are higher for the two new clubs Ross County and Dundee.
Excluding Celtic, there is an average aggregate increase of 8% across the 11 other clubs in the SPL compared with their average attendances. Excluding Celtic, Ross County and Dundee, the increase is around 4%.
If these aggregate averages are maintained the SPL clubs could see a combined increase in ticket revenues of around £2.7m.
I will update this as the season goes along.
Agrajag @ 16:19
If his figures are correct, they will never see the light of day in the MSM
They fly in the face of what they, and indeed Charlie, are trying to tell the world, and it would never do if they were proved to be less than honest yet again
Alex Thomson gives a good summary on all the intimidation. I would have said excellent but as pointed out in the comments he missed a few bullets.
No one else seems interested in this intimidation, the incitement of hatred and the sectarianism coming from the establishment club.
The other Alex, the First Minister was quick to jump in to ensure that Celtic shared the blame when the club awaiting liquidation decided to assault a referee. He was appalled as were the Police about this show of public disorder.
A changed law never implemented with Alex touted for a new edition of that old TV programme ‘Where are they now?’
Why are the government and the police silent on the matter?
They are quick to praise the establishment club even when the evidence says otherwise. Justice Minister Kenny MacAskill who we now know likes to listen to and condone sectarian singing. Alex who is quite happy to write off circa ninety four million of government tax, ignoring the plight of small businesses owed millions, has the cheek to plead for leniency in direct conflict to what he should be doing.
How can this be?
The government and the police are supposed to be there to protect law-abiding citizens.
ffs someone dial 999.
There have been many posts on this blog expressing wonderment and disbelief at the gullibility of RFC fans.They seem to be a group apart from the rest of society in their willingness to swallow anything that fits their particular mentality. It doesnt seem to matter that the proposition fails the normal tests of judgement. If it fits their core beliefs it is acceptable
This got me thinking as to where this culture came from
It struck me that perhaps it reflects the supremist culture endemic in NI . I`m not referring here to bogotry but to the rest of the culture which presumes an inalienable right to govern and prosper. Lesser mortals are permitted to co exist providing they know their place and behave accordingly.
What seems sad about this is that the majority of these fans would probably reject any suggestion that the WATP culture has its roots in NI
Or would they ?
doontheslope says:
Saturday, October 13, 2012
I assume they will shortly be opening up another blog where posters can continue to expose James Traynor and Hugh Keevins for the succulent lies they tell and misinformation they peddle, and where the up and coming ‘harambee’ – or share issue, as it has been described – can be scrutinized and commented upon freely and openly. I would hate to think that any ‘families’ will be screwed financially by a media which fails to expose these peepil to the truth.
—————–
Doon
I’m sure this is the first time that harambee has appeared on here, and how appropriate! Have you lived in Kenya?
Jabba,Forsyth,English and Grant now on radio scotland discussing Diedgers
Dr Stereotype – or How I learned to stop worrying and love my uniqueness.
What is the difference between a Billy and a Tim ? No, it’s not the introduction to a sectarian joke, it’s a serious, rhetorical question. The answer, quite obviously, is very, very, very little. These people were brought up on the same streets, in the same towns, played on the same parks, ate the same food, watched the same TV, read the same papers and worked the same shifts. Many fell in love, married or formed lifelong partnerships with those who ‘kicked with the other foot’ and Scotland is a much better place for it. In fact, the only discernible difference, in these more secular times, between Billy and Tim is which football team they support. Why then the polar opposite reactions to the imminent demise of their beloved clubs in 1993/4 and 2011/12 ?
In 1993 Celts for Change was formed by five Celtic supporters in response to what fans had come to perceive as the inherent nepotism and ‘biscuit-tin mentality’ of the Kelly’s, one of the families that had controlled Celtic since its foundation. This ‘mismanagement’ was affecting the team on the park’s ability to compete with their fierce rivals across the city during what has become known, among Celtic fans at least, as ‘the barren years’. The future looked bleak and the fans did not like it, not one little bit, and they made their feelings known. Thousands cried ‘Sack the Board’ at home games and many hundreds stayed behind after matches to protest against the failed leadership and lack of direction of their beloved club.
At the same time, the Scottish MSM, to their eternal credit, went out of their way to highlight and expose the decidedly-dodgy financial goings on at Celtic Park (with one newspaper even sending a reporter all the way to the US of A in an attempt to uncover some juicier aspects to the saga). In a journalistic fervour not seen since, pertinent and probing questions were asked of the major players, with follow up questions asked where the interviewee had sought the refuge of distraction or obfuscation. There was no hiding place for those who purported to be the leaders of this great club. Leaders are supposed to be held ‘responsible’, that means they are expected to respond.
Alongside this, there was an undeniable element of ‘shadenfreude’ being expressed through the Red Tops. Jabba and his minions laughed like a pack of hungry hyenas in anticipation of a kill. Rangers were, seemingly, untouchable, financially-sound and rampant in all national competitions. Celtic were presented as no more than also-rans with cash flow problems. Interspersed among the gleeful utterances from Ibrox (including, it should be said, from Mr McCoist himself), many will recall the oft-referred to ‘Broken Crest’ and ‘Celtic in Crisis’ banners on the back pages. One rag (pre-Photoshop, remember ?) even hired a hearse complete with an undertaker, a coffin and a wreath to park outside Celtic Park in order to get a ‘sensational’ Back Page picture. It worked an absolute treat, loads more papers were sold that day. The Rangers fans were joyful, the Celtic fans were incensed.
CfC, at the point of desperation and with administration looming, managed to organise a’ reasonably successful’ boycott of a (rearranged) home match against Kilmarnock, which, no doubt, sent more than a few fiscal frissons up the spines of Messrs Kelly and the rest of the Board. In the end though, it was (ain’t it always been so) the ‘moneymen’ in the background who had both the impetus and capacity to negotiate an end to the daily declining dynasty of the dastardly King Kelly. At the last, and most opportune, moment, Mr Dempsey loaned the club a few bob to extend their overdraft facility, Uncle Fergus came in with a plan and a bunnet full of cash, floated the club in PLC fashion, fans bought a substantial amount of shares and the rest is, as they say, history.
Fast forward to 2011/2012. Compare and contrast. As far as I am aware, it was the Scots-Irish journalist and active member of the NUJ, Phil Mac Giolla Bhain who first raised the possibility of Rangers tax issues and potential administration on Radio Clyde during the autumn of 2010. What was the response of the Scottish football media and the Rangers support to this impending disaster ? It was ignored, derided and otherwise fobbed off as idle gossip or a ‘timmy’ conspiracy created to undermine the (desperately) proposed sale of the club.
When the former owner did eventually ‘get shot’ of ‘the most successful club in the world’ for the princely sum of ‘one Great British Pound’ to a well-kent, two-bit hustler, where were the Scottish football media ? I’ll tell you, they were, most likely, sitting at their desks waiting for the next well-crafted press release from the offices of Ibrox or Media House, which they then dutifully copied and pasted before settling down to a nice long lunch of ‘the most succulent lamb’, no doubt accompanied by some fava beans and a nice Chianti (fthst thss fthst).
Despite specific warnings emanating from the Orwell Award-winning rangerstaxcase.com with regards to Mr Whyte’s ‘Modus Operandi’ and, notwithstanding Mark Daly’s BBC documentary expose on the EBT fiasco and Mr Murray’s (and the rest of the board’s) shambolic running of the club, the Rangers fans heads were encouraged to remain firmly ensconced, ostrich-style, heading in a southerly direction on that ironically blue and white river in Egypt. Regardless of an Award-winning English war correspondent and investigative journalist (who clearly had no axe to grind) indicating, in no uncertain terms, that all was not right in the State of Scottish Fitbaw, and signalling, to any who would listen, the unbearable inevitability of oblivion, no-one in the Scottish MSM asked anyone of any importance a single goddamn thing.
Once the aforementioned brown, smelly stuff hit the big swirly thing down the Copland Road, the sense of shock and disbelief was palpable among the loyal supporters. Literally ‘some’ disillusioned Rangers fans turned up outside Ibrox to demand that ‘the big hoose must stay open’. The oddly, but aptly named Rangers Fans Fighting Fund was hastily set up. Unfortunately their first foray into promoting a ‘fightback’ against their perceived enemies lead to the notorious Mr Custard the bluenose clown debacle (enough said!). Knights of varying hues hovered like bluebottles, then flitted silently to other, less pungent flowers.
Various potential ‘moneymen’ (both known and unknown), arrived like oriental kings, except bearing sycophantic platitudes about the greatness of the club and the loyalty of the support instead of the actual gold, myrrh and frankincense that was required. Due diligence and basic fiscal rectitude mandated that these guys look at the ‘numbers’. After which, they all made a sharp exit, retreating behind the boardroom door like the psychopathic nun out of ‘the Blues Brothers’, in case they drew any further unwanted attention to themselves.
This left the door ajar to, what one might term, the vulture capitalist(s), who had sat, patiently, watching from afar until Rangers’ rotten carcass was completely surrounded by no competing predators . Brave Bomber Brown began to bloom, almost blossomed and then bombed on the steps of Ibrox. The RST, RSA, RTIDNI, VB et al argued amongst themselves and thus, no real concerted attempt was ever made to drive forward the fans agenda and to question those in charge of their club.
” In Murray we trust” they cried, “in Whyte we trust” they added, “in Ally we trust” they reiterated and now they exclaim “in Green we trust”. What on earth is going on here ? Are these not my countrymen, my neighbours, my pals, my family? They are not some trifle to be played with then discarded like an old simmet. Could it be that the fans, actually, were adhering to their own implanted artificial stereotypes ? Surely everyone understands that Billy can be no more loyal than Tim and that Tim is no more rebellious than Billy.
Could the tabloid media actually be benefitting from playing up to these reinforced stereotypes in order to increase the sale and distribution of their tiresome tomes? ………….You can bet your last ten bob they could.
With this in mind, let us undertake a cursory examination the extreme stereotypes of Celtic and Rangers supporters as promulgated by our Scottish MSM. Bear in mind that I am talking about the extremists here. At least 95% of all followers of either team are thoroughly decent, unlabelled, human beings with whom I would/do share my blood. However, the media would have us believe they are ‘chalk and cheese’. For Rangers fans one is lead to envisage a ‘Mason Boyne’ type character, let us call him Billy Boyle; a loyal, British, hard-working, queen-loving, pope-hating, bowler-hatted royalist. For Celtic supporters one is coerced to imagine another contrary character, let’s name him Timothy O’Toole; a rebel, Irish-stocked, work-shy, pope-loving, queen-hating, toorie-wearing republican.
“Who are these people?, I want to know who these people are.” Do they have wives, children, jobs, lives ? Personally, I have (thankfully) never met anyone remotely like Billy or Tim and I seriously doubt that you have either. In my humble opinion, these ‘gentlemen’ do not exist. In fact, they are no more than mere caricatures, figments of some maniacal marketing man’s imagination. However, these are the very two guys to whom the Scottish football media still aim their derogatory and derisory messages (their target market, if you will).
Brand loyalty is a well understood marketing phenomenon. All individuals have, whether they like it or not, deep-rooted emotional and subconscious attachments to a particular image of themselves as being a certain’ type’ of person. Moreover, most, if not all, people consider themselves one of the good guys (better than all the rest, as some would say). This fallacious and corrupted self-image leads to them being attracted to and sticking with specific product brands, which they perceive (wrongly) to share an affinity with them, over others which don’t (Apple v Orange).
Marketing and media companies have, for many decades, used sophisticated and covert techniques to engender these ‘avatars’ and created the ‘illusion of choice’ in order to manipulate the required changes in attitudes and behaviour (more often than not to compel you to buy more of their crap). At its simplest in can be the use of ‘loaded language’ i.e. using emotionally charged words to illicit a desired response (e.g. ‘punishment’ is a far more emotive word than say, ‘consequences’ or even ‘sanctions’). You can see many, many examples of this every day in both the printed and broadcast media.
At the more extreme end of the spectrum, these techniques include Neural Linguistic Programming (sometimes aptly called hidden or ‘hack’ hypnosis) which involves the use of emotive terms (Hope, Change, Trust etc), sophistry, suggestion, hidden meanings, secret hand gestures and tones of voice to captivate and manipulate a suggestible audience. This is established fact, not some anti-Masonic conspiratorial fantasy. Politicians (at least their spin doctors) do it all the time and it appears to work.
The three wise monkeys of the Scottish MSM (newspapers, TV and Radio), who heard nothing, saw nothing and said nothing throughout the calamitous reigns of both Mr Murray and Mr Whyte, will continue, Bobby Ewing like, to pursue their failed schema as though ‘the Rangers thing’ had never happened. By callously exploiting the self-image of both Billy and Tim and thus polarising the debate (the old divide and conquer routine) they will be able to circumvent questions over their own complicity and continue to set the entire agenda. It’s simple, it’s devastating and it’s effective.
Loyalty is one of those highly emotionally-charged words which can be, and is, used to manipulate people. Loyal people, by their very definition, have a tendency to trust ‘the powers that be’ and those whom they perceive to be above them. Rebels, on the other hand, are predisposed to a latent mistrust of all authority and those they feel are attempting to control them. However, loyalty should never be confused with Loyalism. Many, if not most, Celtic fans consider themselves to be loyal or (‘faithful through and through’ as they call it) with regard to their club. How is being faithful that different from being loyal ? Could this misplaced and ill-conceived ‘loyalty’ be the simple reason why Celtic now thrive whilst Rangers barely survive ?
Let me be absolutely clear here, I am not suggesting for one minute that any of this is the Rangers fans fault. Sure they gloried in their triumphs, who wouldn’t ? But when it came down to it, most of them just ‘reacted’ like Pavlov’s pooches to the unremitting triggers of loyalty and supremacisim. Those few decent supporters and ex-players who tried to speak out against the failing leadership of their favoured brand were quickly accused of being disloyal and stood down, silent. Where were all the well-paid, professional and eloquent types (who, I should remind you, had claimed substantial sums of fan’s cash for promoting the club throughout the glory years) to speak up on behalf of the club and the support ? When the fans needed Bamber (Gascoigne), they got Bomber (Brown). When they needed the truth, instead they were proffered the same old, same old rabble-rousing rhetoric and tired cliches.
Billy doesn’t appear to mind though, newspaper sales are up this week. In any case, most propaganda is not designed to fool the critical thinker but only to give moral cowards an excuse not to think at all. As a matter of fact, despite their public vilification, both the hyenas and the vultures appear set to embark on a new joint venture, to glean the last few meagre pickings from the bones of the emaciated and desiccated cadaver of the loyal supporters of this new club purporting to be the once mighty Rangers. How many will be compelled to ‘prove their loyalty’ by donating their hard-earned cash to this legal fiction. Some call it investing in their club, some call it buying shares in a new ‘holding company’, some call it taking the piss. I call it legalised corporate extortion.
So then, what is the difference between a Billy and a Tim? Could (should, even) Billy try to be more like Tim and begin to rebel against their ‘superiors’ ? Would that ? could that save what is left of their beloved club? Perhaps! because, after all, to paraphrase General Jack D Ripper in the late/great Stanley Kubrick’s Dr Strangelove, to the fans, football, like war “is far too important to be left to the generals”.
Humble Pie says:
Saturday, October 13 at 17:46
Excellent piece!
Hat!
I can’t spell Chapeau…
caught some of Sportsound Paper talk. The depressing tone of Traynor and self-serving whine of Forsyth should have flipped the off switch automatically. However, after a brief shopping trip to Morrison’s and back in the car, I caught their discussion of Rangers (then, now, whenever). Remarkably, the narrative played out here and on RTC over the past year+ seemed to have been subsumed in to the conversation, Maybe it was the presence of Tom English, who kick started the demolition of (RF)C Green but the uber-defensiveness of previous outings made way to an assessment of The Rangers as perhaps irreparably damaged, in the hands of a snake oil salesman and supported by schmucks who give schmucking a bad name.
Southern Exile
Ndio.
I lived in Kenya for a while, Mombasa and Nairobi. And, if they are being honest, ‘harambee’ is a much more apt description of the share issue at Ibrox – a big, public collection.
Humble Pie,
Excellent and thought provoking piece. One of the standouts the blog is famous for. One small point, I think Phil MacG in his book, or maybe a blog, says that the Sunday Mail editor who organised the hearse outside CP pictures, was a strong Celtic fan. He did the item to draw attention to the financial meltdown at CP.
Interestingly, after a telephone conversation with (-S) DM in which he told that bully where to go, he
probably due to my Irish-stocked work-shy, pope-loving, queen-hating, toorie-wearing, republican background!!!
Now I have a job, no religion, no hat, little interest in politics…
But…
I still don’t like Rangers, Sevco or T’Rangers!!!
I’m all confused again!
(sorry, must have pressed wrong button.) he was fired, says PMacG
Doesn’t really matter that Wales scored a late winner, or that Macedonia frustrated. Or that Belgium will take about 4 off the Scots when they meet, Scotland has yet again failed miserably to qualify for another consecutive world cup campaign. Only they do it in super-speedy time these-days–no more final-game nail-biters with Levein’s Scotland, we’re out and it’s only 3 games played! Let’s be honest about it here, that match in the Czech Republic should have been Levein’s last and compared to the stick that Berti Vogts encountered from the MSM, Levein has certainly enjoyed an easy time of it from the MSM as he and his team find even more ways of embarssing the country…and what are those specs all about??
Anyway, that’s my summary of the national side and our chances for WC qualification…but you ever get the feeling Levein and the abject failure of his side are escaping attention (and a media slaughtering) because there is a greater distraction within Hampden and in other places??
Seem to be a distinct lack of guidance and statement from the top these-days…i wonder why…could it be that Campbell Ogilvie and his merry band of wee blazered men have given hiding things and doing their best to manipulate procedure the utmost priority over at Hampden?
The complicity with dual-contracts and the further complicity offered to Charlie and Co must be worrying for some, so much so that Campbell Ogilvie has even made a plea via the MSM for Charlie to come and talk to him. Considering the past shenanigans between the SFA and RFC, i’m sure Campbell doesnt have to resort to the MSM for communicado…honestly, you have to give it to Media House, they really do think we are all as daft as your average Sun or DR reader!
Apologies in advance to any afficiado’s of afore-mentioned publications…it’s just my own opinion and that of thousands others who have long given up buying any of these rags, they ruined their already suspect reputation, being shown up to a man by a bunch of internet bloggers and they still have not learned their lesson even now, like drowning seamen (ooh missus..) desperately clinging to bits of a sunken ship instead of looking for the life-boats. Anywhere else, Campbell Ogilvie would be fodder for the MSM, sadly in Scotland it’s a no-go area. It’s never about Ogilvie’s way of doing his job, it’s about Ogilvie’s position and influence within the SFA and Scottish football. Who exactly holds him in such high regard anyway? And for what exactly??
Campbell Ogilvie is being protected by his employers, the MSM and various others connected with Scottish football, but not because he has did anything of value to the Scottish game, he is being protected because he was a major component in a massive scam operation and he has covered his arse with regards to being hung-out by the authorities. How has Campbell managed to achieve this? That is the real question here. What exactly has Campbell on the executives of these establishments that ensure his continuation within the SFA, especially in light of the EBT, the notion of him still being there NOW is simply absurd. Can you honestly imagine this going on at the English FA?? Can you imagine their MSM looking in the other direction…whistling away as they try to ignore what their ears must be SCREAMING at them?!
Campbell Ogilvie and his wee blazered men are the ones we need to focus on, they are being ignored as many follow Charlie and his Chocolate Factory into their new share-bonanza days and what will encounter, I personaly think they’ll do well to rake in, say, about 5-7 million but if Charlie can spiv as good as he dog-whistles, he might even get more than the 20m. Does it really matter though? The fall-out that will occur after Charlies venture collapses (for whatever reason, take your pick..) will at long last bring down the remainder of the crumbling house where our game is governed from, the in-fighting and mud slinging is still yet to come. Campbell and a few others (like various folk called Murray) will be shown to have been the root cause of the RFC fiasco.
Interesting times indeed. Will the MSM still pretend it’s not happening, as it unfolds and snowballs all over internet blogs, right under their noses, or will they challenge and question corruption within the sport in the same manner their colleagues down in England do? No. Of course they wont. They’ll always be cowardly weasels and lap-dogs for anyone and anything that owns the proverbial keys for Ibrox.
If we want genuine news, we read it here. If we want fact and unblinkered opinion, we do it here and if we need investigation, there are brilliant folk here that do that too. The MSM are a genuine irrelevance now. Charlie’s never got over the process that seen his newco starting in SFL3. He was no doubt led into a different train of thought prior I would imagine, don’t know by who exactly, but probably a combo of idiot administrators and pie-in-the-sky notions of self-importance and relevance. The truth is, MIH via Minty hanged RFC, aided and abbeted wholly by Campbell Ogilvie, Martin Bain and various others.
Charlie is a vulture. A foul piece of vermin that looks for opportunity from the carcasses of failed companies and how to exploit idiots into parting with ££ into useless and borderline fraudulent options schemes. It isn’t their dark secret hobby, It’s what they do for a day job and it’s quite apparent if you bother to research, just a bit, so go on all you MSM reporters…away to Hampden, ask a few questions and give us all a shock….
doontheslope says:
Saturday, October 13, 2012 at 18:11
Southern Exile
Ndio.
I lived in Kenya for a while, Mombasa and Nairobi. And, if they are being honest, ‘harambee’ is a much more apt description of the share issue at Ibrox – a big, public collection.
—————–
We had one for our wedding – paid for lots of nyama choma for the wananchi!
willmacufree says:
Saturday, October 13, 2012 at 18:15
Fair point will, however the affiliations of the editor are irrelevant. Media and marketing are all about ‘perception’. Both sets of the old ‘Old Firm’ supporters perceive the tabloids as being biased against them ….and they are both right.
timabhouy says:
Saturday, October 13, 2012 at 13:23
Torryjohnbhoy
Well writen ! remember pegasus flew to close to the sun .
________________________________________________________________________
Timabhouy,
I thought it was a good article.It was not written by me.I found it on KDS and thought it worthy of posting on here.People will make up there own mind if it’s good or not.
WRT pegasus flying close to the SUN,maybe the SUN decided that it couldn’t serialise the story of the White Horse with wings because some folk phoned in and said you can’t mis-represent White horses.
Bollocks I know but this is the world we live in.
tommythehat says:
Saturday, October 13, 2012 at 18:33
Rock on Tommy. Excellent post.
Southern
Bwana Mungu, you bring back memories. I adored that language.
One time I was out in the sticks and a local was showing me round and telling me the names for things. Mtu – tree, Watu – trees, etc.. I pointed to a tree with big spikes on it and asked what ‘type’ of tree it was. The guy said, “Its an ngoja kidogo mtu.” (A hold-on-a-minute, tree.)
I didnt have a clue what the guy was talking about. Then a week later I was walking through a group of the same trees and a spike from one of the branches got caught in my T-shirt. After about a minute of struggling trying to untangle myself, the name of the tree came back to me. I p@shed myself laughing. As I say, a wonderful, wonderful language.
You wouldn’t know how to apologise for being off topic, in Swahili would you?
SouthernExile says:
Saturday, October 13, 2012 at 17:02
I’m sure this is the first time that harambee has appeared on here, and how appropriate! Have you lived in Kenya?
“””””””””””””””””””””””””
doontheslope says:
Saturday, October 13, 2012 at 18:11
I lived in Kenya for a while, Mombasa and Nairobi. And, if they are being honest, ‘harambee’ is a much more apt description of the share issue at Ibrox – a big, public collection.
“””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””
Never became that fluent in Swahili but I thought ‘harambee’ meant ‘self-help” as in ‘Harambee Schools’ were ones funded by local public subscription and if they they managed to become good enough may be taken under the state umbrella at a later point.
In the case of Chukie’s share issue it would seem to be more a case of ‘help yourself’. Perhaps it is his intention to jet off to ‘Happy Valley’ with the proceeds as has been the won’t of many a rogue headmaster entrusted with the collections of the locals to build or pay the student’s fees in many a Harambee School.
doontheslope says:
Saturday, October 13, 2012 at 18:58
‘You wouldn’t know how to apologise for being off topic, in Swahili would you?’
-===
My wife tells me that she would say’ mimikuomba msamaha’, but can’t remember whether that’s what a woman says, rather than a man.
Parson St. Bhoy says:
Saturday, October 13, 2012 at 19:09
SouthernExile says:
Saturday, October 13, 2012 at 17:02
I’m sure this is the first time that harambee has appeared on here, and how appropriate! Have you lived in Kenya?
“””””””””””””””””””””””””
doontheslope says:
Saturday, October 13, 2012 at 18:11
I lived in Kenya for a while, Mombasa and Nairobi. And, if they are being honest, ‘harambee’ is a much more apt description of the share issue at Ibrox – a big, public collection.
“””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””
Never became that fluent in Swahili but I thought ‘harambee’ meant ‘self-help” as in ‘Harambee Schools’ were ones funded by local public subscription and if they they managed to become good enough may be taken under the state umbrella at a later point.
In the case of Chukie’s share issue it would seem to be more a case of ‘help yourself’. Perhaps it is his intention to jet off to ‘Happy Valley’ with the proceeds as has been the won’t of many a rogue headmaster entrusted with the collections of the locals to build or pay the student’s fees in many a Harambee School.
____________________________________________________________________
This beats “Mouldmaster Memories” hands down. 😆
Flocculent Apoidea says:
Saturday, October 13, 2012 at 14:34
The SFA’s official stance is that this is not the old club with 140 years of history. I don’t read the papers – anyone seen the SFA correcting Green to protect Scottish supporters and the Scottish game from what the SFA should view as wholly inaccurate reference to a former member club by another in order to raise funds/”revenue”?
——
Well, that’s an excellent point.
Not the SFA bit exactly, but the whole idea of trading off a different club/company’s, um … reputation … whilst claiming it as your own.
Would that not be considered fraud?
Humble Pie says:
Saturday, October 13, 2012 at 17:46
——
An excellent piece, which clearly reminds us of the incredible one-sideness of the MSM in their reporting of the Celtic crisis which was just an internal crisis the causes of which did NOT have their roots
in grand-scale tax-cheatery,
or in financial doping,
or in the collusion by, of and with the football authorities to circumvent FIFA, Uefa, and SFA or SFL rules to perversely perpetrate a most appalling and insulting manoeuvre to save a rogue club from the worst consequences of its wickedness.
Not one fraction of the huge effort that went into covering the Celtic story, no, not one fraction of a fraction, has been expended by the succulent lamb eaters on any kind of attempt to ferret out the facts and details of the true reasons for Rangers’ extinction or of the repulsively corrupt readiness of frightened little men and job’s-worths.
Instead they have, like hyenas, huddled round the carcass, fearful of being the first to try to take a bite, encouraging each other with cries of ” It’s still alive, it’s still alive, and will be stronger than ever when league re-construction happens next season”
I spit upon them.
Having consulted the mganga, off topic doesn’t seem to translate into Kiswahili – its much too subtle a language for that!
Bas!
doontheslope says:
Saturday, October 13, 2012 at 18:58
You wouldn’t know how to apologise for being off topic, in Swahili would you?
“””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””
Pole sana kwa kuma mbali ya mada. (Very sorry for being off topic)
Torrejohnbhoy & Agrajag.
Thanks for the replies to my post this morning, im just catching up now. I guess the problem with trying to work out turnover and percentages on the basis of what Green says is the fact that the guy talks rubbish, he will say and do anything he wants to suit his own agenda. I dont suppose we will get accurate figures until accounts ( lol ) are published, although we can be sure that turnover is down by a large %, while only wages will be down compared to last seasons costs to mitigate this. An unprofittable company last season and losing even more this season, just as well that fools and their money are easilly parted.
Thanks again.
Car 57 where are you. Calling Angus of the grammer police ( Aberdeen branch ).
There has been a murder.
My earlier post has all the evidence you need to secure a conviction.
Any lawyers kicking about.
😀
I thought it was Icarus who flew too close to the sun not Pegasus??? 🙂
iki says:
Saturday, October 13, 2012 at 10:00
Green says that he is planning to stop the manager and players speaking to the media
==========================================
Excellent news… the Daily Retar^H^H^H^H^HRanger^H^H^H^H^H^HRecord should be closing soon then.
All this talk of league reconstruction for next season between Green & Ogilvie just to accommodate Club12 yet again leaves me baffled.
Surely they will not try to introduce a Scottish Fourth Division as a safety net.
tommythehat says:
Saturday, October 13, 2012 at 18:33
‘……How has Campbell managed to achieve this? That is the real question here. What exactly has Campbell on the executives of these establishments that ensure his continuation within the SFA, especially in light of the EBT, the notion of him still being there NOW is simply absurd..’
——
I refer you, m’lud, to briggsbhoy’s very funny story about Alison (briggsbhoy says:
Saturday, October 13, 2012 at 18:49).
In my view, it’s not so much a case of CO ‘having anything on’ anybody as of him being a top dog in a community of adult ‘Alisons’ and having an influence that can call on other influences to make or break a fellow-‘Alison’ who steps out of the square.
Agrajag says:
Saturday, October 13, 2012 at 16:19(Edit)
Not my figures
______________________________________________
But thanks for posting anyway. Compelling reading.
Agrajag says:
Saturday, October 13, 2012 at 16:10
Its worth listening again to Your call from afternoon. Richard Gordon was talking about the increase in average attendances. Chick Murray went ape-sh!t as if something had destroyed his belief system. He could not accept that attendances were up, without the presence of RFC and the 50,000 fans going to all the away games.
Long Time Lurker says:
Saturday, October 13, 2012 at 21:12
Its worth listening again to Your call from afternoon. Richard Gordon was talking about the increase in average attendances. Chick Murray went ape-sh!t as if something had destroyed his belief system. He could not accept that attendances were up, without the presence of RFC and the 50,000 fans going to all the away games.
===========================
I think that’s the bit they don’t get.
Rangers’ attendances at Ibrox generated no poppy (do you see what I did there) for the rest of the league Rangers kept all of that money. So losing that from the SPL made no difference.
They are probably thinking about overall average attendances, or even total attendances being down. that was clearly going to happen when replacing Rangers with Dundee.
However the important figure to the clubs is their own home attendances. If they are up, and across the board they seem to be, that is what matters financially for those clubs.
Never mind Armageddon, the evidence to date would suggest that most clubs are actually better off without Rangers in the league. Even if the likes of Chick Young and Jim Traynor reject that intuitively.
Hopefully as fans see their team with a chance of a higher place in the league, a European place, or a cup win, that will increase or even improve.
To what would we attribute the attendances going up?
No Rangers?
Support for integrity?
All, I am a lurker and watcher but I am not comfortable with off topic topics posted today (except for the educational pieces on african languages). We all have tales to tell on multiple sides of religion, race and sex. One of the rules of the blog which we have all effectively signed up to is…
2. Absolutely no discussion with regard to religion should take place.
I personally prefer if this rule was adhered to. Please.
I don’t know who you are. I know what you want. I am looking for ransom, I can tell you I don’t have money. But what I do have are a very particular set of skills; skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for Fans like you. If you let your dosh go now, that’ll be the end of it. I will not look for you, I will not pursue you. But if you don’t, I will look for you, I will find you, and I will fleece you. C Green from taken haha very apt as he will be taking from T’rangers loyal very soon.
Parson
Suitably impressed with your Swahili. I’d doff my cap, but that would be a bit colonial.
I was brought up in a real Hearts area outside Edinburgh. They were always giving me it tight. One of the reasons I was glad to get away to Kenya was that I’d get away from all things Gorgie.
Then I stepped off the plane in Mombasa and the first thing somebody says to me was, “Jambo, jambo!!”
I never said anything. I just left him lying there.
Auchinstarry,
Just pointing out the one topic that posters are specifically requested to refrain from in the SFM guidance. It may be an elephant in the room but its there for a reason. The blog could easily lower standards and lose respect in the wider world.
I aint no moderator so will leave it there.
Thanks
DM
Car 57 should of course be car 54 and grammer should be grammar.
Epic fail.
Angus, i have handed myself in at my local primary school in a blatant attempt to curry favour with the authorities and avoid jail.
Folks
Please leave the anecodatal stuff supporting stereotypes out of things. I have removed the posts.
Guilty as charged TSFM, but, hopefully in my defence, my first serious misjudgement!
torrejohnbhoy says:
Saturday, October 13, 2012 at 12:43
Not mine,from KDS.A good article,I think:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Not really. This is the problem with clever people in this country they always try to be clever by demonstrating their knowledge of Greek/Roman mythology when in fact it is cleverer to simply the language and actually communicate with the audience.
American writers do it really well.
torrejohnbhoy says:
Saturday, October 13, 2012 at 18:57
1 0 Rate This
timabhouy says:
Saturday, October 13, 2012 at 13:23
Torryjohnbhoy
Well writen ! remember pegasus flew to close to the sun .
———————————
Icarus, no?
rab says:
Saturday, October 13, 2012 at 22:27
Angus, i have handed myself in at my local primary school in a blatant attempt to curry favour with the authorities and avoid jail.
——
Good man, Robert. Rest assured that both your contrition and your early guilty plea shall be taken into account.
🙂
(OT: For those wishing to discuss the Bible: http://www.landoverbaptist.net/ )
Long Time Lurker says:
Saturday, October 13, 2012 at 21:12(Edit)
Its worth listening again to Your call from afternoon. Richard Gordon was talking about the increase in average attendances. Chick Murray went ape-sh!t as if something had destroyed his belief system. He could not accept that attendances were up, without the presence of RFC and the 50,000 fans going to all the away games.
______________________________________________________________________
LTL,
Please to not blacken the name of the greatest comic talent ever to come out of this country with the much less talented BBC pundit 🙂
Chic is coming from the same place as the elephant tied to the post. He simply can’t comprehend a scenario which sees Rangers as non-essential. If these figures are correct, I suspect that the boardrooms of clubs all over the country will be taking heed that football is apparently sustainable without Rangers, or any other single club. This may mean there will be no repeat of the summer rush to help sustain Rangers.
It may also be worth considering that the minimal impact of Rangers absence from the SPL is due in some part to the fact that the gate money is held by the home team and that other income is distributed in a top heavy fashion. Maybe the Achilles Heel of the top clubs in relation to the distribution of income, and if verified, will undoubtedly embolden clubs in their attitude to the big two in future.
Perhaps there are too many unknown variables in the equation, but a comparative analysis of the total loss of income in the SPL against the amount of revenue RFC would have walked away with might be scary reading for Charles Green if he is expecting to need favours from SPL clubs.
Sorry it was Icarus 🙂
Looking at the figures on attendances, I think it is too early in the season to make judgements (“it’s a marathon, not a sprint”) but it is encouraging nonetheless.
However, it is interesting that the figures quoted are nearly all lower than the 5 year average which corsica used in his calculations and which were posted on RTC. He had used a 5 year average because of the vagaries of the split, match timings, performance and so forth in order to get a fairer picture of average attendance.
The two exceptions are DUFC and Motherwell which are slightly up on that average. St Johnstone are almost there, but just about everbody else has got a wee bit to go to get back to the highs of 5 years ago (attendances have been sliding over the past five years so Year 1 was the high point). This is still only a few hundred ‘though so could very well be made up as the season progresses particularly for those who have yet to see a visit by Celtic.
I think Hearts’ disappointing figures could almost certainly be attributed to the drop in League competitiveness over that period and a disenchantment with the Romanov programme. The really interesting point for me therefore is that Celtic are haemorrhaging fans at an alarming rate – the kind of fall that would make a [competent] businessman and a finance director worry.
Irrespective of the 5 year average what is really encouraging is that corsica’s figures showed that all that was needed was a small increase in attendance at home games to offset the loss of RFC ranging from 320 at Aberdeen and Kilmarnock to 170 at Dunfermline and St Johnstone. If these figures produced by Richard Gordon are correct then we are getting there.
Keep an eye on St Mirren and Kilmarnock ‘though as they need the visit of Celtic to make a 9% and 12% swing back respectively.
Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
Saturday, October 13, 2012 at 23:11
Well writen ! remember pegasus flew to close to the sun .
———————————
Icarus, no?
——
Yes – according to Iron Maiden, from whom I learned my ancient history and mythology almost exclusively.. 🙂
Pegasus, meanwhile, ended up working for Zeus carting thunderbolts around and stuff. When his time was up, Zeus turned him into a star constellation. So that was nice.
Dunman,
You are correct with respect to the posts earlier. Whilst I do not believe that the posts were malicious, the anecdotal nature of the information is open to challenge and opens the door to whatabouttery.
I think it is sailing a bit close to the wind on the religion rule, but it is also off topic, and therefore not something I want to be in the middle of.
Could I also remind folks that posts about moderation policy should be directed to the Contacts page to avoid clogging up the discussion.
TSFM says:
Saturday, October 13, 2012 at 23:20
—-
‘Please to not blacken the name of the greatest comic talent ever to come out of this country ..’
—-
And a talent which , I think, was never, at the time, given the full recognition and scope in this country that it deserved!
Always difficult to make comparisons, because cutting edge comedy is by definition ahead of its audience. But he cut the mustard for me, a Scots George Burns.
Returning to football, I think I heard Doncaster a day or two ago being quite upbeat about the present situation overall. Armageddon is not really on the agenda, with attendance figures as they are at the moment.
And the SPL clubs will certainly feel a little more empowered to flex their muscles .