We spend an inordinate amount of time on this blog arguing about what the re-emergent Rangers should be called. It is a rather circular debate with no way of finding any consensus. The dispute between Rangers (“The Rangerists”) or The Rangers or Sevco (“The Sevconians”) and its claim to be the club that was formed in the 19th century is spurious. Whichever way you look at it, the continuity of the “brand” is undeniable and as long those who wish to keep buying that package are satisfied that the wrapping is authentic – where’s the harm?
The red herring in the argument is that “history” is important. To the average football fan, it is nothing of the kind. As a Celtic fan myself, and a bit of a student of the history of the club, I am constantly dismayed by the Thousand Yard Stare I get from your average Celtic fan who is confronted with the names of people who contributed significantly to the club’s identity. Key figures like Sandy McMahon, Jimmy Delaney, Jimmy McGrory and (God help us) John Thomson rarely elicit recognition.
Modern football fans who live in the instant gratification society of the the WWW and mobile communications may pay lip service to their clubs’ history, but that’s not what gives the modern football fan wears as his badge of honour. That is a commodity often erroneously confused with history – the bragging rights associated with the trophy haul.
The ability to claim that “we have more titles than you” is far more valuable to a supporter than which 19th century attacking centre-back won the Scottish Cup with a last minute header; and the value of said cup wins is heavily weighted in favour of the most recent (save for the honourable exception of the European successes).
The maintenance of that illusion of superiority is crucial if Rangers fans are to believe that their club is still Rangers. Perhaps in time they may even come to fully believe it themselves, but the cataract of column inches devoted to propagating that myth, both from the MSM and from information outlets controlled by Charles Green’s organisation, betrays a lack of total belief by the chief Bear-existentialists. Protesting too much may not be subtle, but that never put off your average fitba’ man either.
The upshot though is this. There is a belief – or at least a hope – amongst Rangerists that the continuity argument holds. They will call the new club Rangers. Fans of other clubs who make up the vast majority of the Sevconian tendency, believe nothing of the kind. They will call it something else.
Many will remind Rangerists that the old club died, and this is factually correct (or at least will be very soon). Rangerists will counter that the Rangers ethos lives on at Ibrox, and despite the worrying overtones (for some) contained in that statement, that is also factually correct.
Rangerists will also point out, as Rangers fans on this blog already have, that the SPL bent over backwards to assist the continuity of the club in order to minimise the financial consequences for Scottish football, and that the SFL too, have agreed that they are the same club.
Why? Simply because Scottish Football thinks it needs to help perpetrate they illusion of continuity to avoid the loss of thousands of paying customers to the game altogether.
So round one has gone to the Rangerists, with the Sevconians pretty much taking an eight-count.
So is the name thing important? I don’t think it is of critical importance. The name in itself doesn’t matter, but to merely agree that everything is as before is to join forces with the MSM, SFA & SPL who have sought to give RFC and their tax theft a pass.
Whatever happens in the future though, the illusion hasn’t worked completely. The Sevconians’ wish to call the new club by a different name was for the purpose of making it synonymous with tax evasion, however the name Rangers now evokes exactly that response. There is now a discernible pause when people mention Rangers. A pause that reflects on the dis-service they did to the country, and to the game of football in Scotland.
Which brings us to the really important point. Throughout this saga rules have been bent. Conflicted individuals, alleged to have been involved in the tax and registration scam and its subsequent cover-up, have remained in positions of authority and power, despite being under a cloud throughout. The media have been complicit, except in rare cases, in allowing the wrong-doing to go unquestioned, actively campaigning for rules not to be applied.
What we have been saying all along is this. Please play the game by the rules, and do not manufacture special cases for the financially powerful.
Call Rangers whatever you wish, but deal with their transgressions appropriately in the spirit of sporting fairness, and within the framework of the existing rules. That is the least – and most – we expect. We don’t ask for much. Just give us back some pride in our sport .
angus1983 says:
Monday, October 15, 2012 at 11:28
They only have 25 first team players now so based on £6m that means an average salary of £4615 per week.
However the wage bill needs to take to account whatever is being paid to the 16 youth/reserve players, the 11 backroom staff, the 7 staff running the Academy and then any other management and admin staff.
Lets say 14 of the 1st team who are youngster as on £2k a week thats £1.5
Shiels Black Sandaza Templeton must be on £5k a week so thats £1.0m
Kyle, Little and a few other may be on say £3.5 a week so thats £0.75m
The the big money earners Alexander, McCulloch and Wallace may be on say £10k a year. So thats another £1.5m.
If they have kept to those types of wages then £6m for the 1st team is achievable but that is without bonuses etc.
However Ally is reportedly on £1.0m and MacDowell and Durrant must be on a fair whack as well.
The remaining backroom and academy staff even on £25k a year adds £375k but as reported people seemed to be on good contracts so it is probably a lot higher and they all tuped over with mention being made that 70% of the overall wages and benefits package were set in stone.
Add in the rest of the staff and the costs go up.
They will certainly have managed to cut some costs but at this time it is guesswork as to how much that is.
Honestly, prior to this sudden affliction of ultra-sensitivity which has taken over them, has anyone on here ever heard of Rangers (sic) fans being referred to as daleks ? I have been around a long time and have been in the company of all manner of numpty and I have certainly never heard it before now. In fact, when I did hear it (on RM), I assumed it was because of their recent proclivity towards the desire to ‘exterminate’ their perceived enemies (SFA, SPL, MSM, CFC et al).
Humble Pie says:
Monday, October 15, 2012 at 11:59
Honestly, prior to this sudden affliction of ultra-sensitivity which has taken over them, has anyone on here ever heard of Rangers (sic) fans being referred to as daleks ?
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I’ve been going to the fitba for around 35 years and never heard that before. Other posters on here, longer in the tooth than myself, had not either. It was discussed some time ago, possibly on RTC.
It’s nonsense.
Test. Thanks TSFM for your help.
As I understand it they are entitled to the same terms and conditions, and if it is a transfer of an undertaking then that must be offered to them. The new business can’t just say we can’t afford that so here’s a worse offer, take it or leave it.
The point of TUPE is to protect the employees in situations like this.
However, in reality, I think most players would have simply agreed to leave. Given that they wouldn’t want to play in the 4th division, and as a free agent could probably get as good terms if not better. Certainly the top players could.
It does make it a bit rich Mr Green then claiming they walked away and trying to get some form of compensation. Given that he must have wanted them to leave anyway. The business simply could not hav erun for any length of time with the wage bill it had. It was a loss making business with SPL income.
From Barcabhoy on CQN:
08:47 on 15 October, 2012
Charles Green and his 500 million fans. Those fans who he claims will PAY to watch Rangers games via a smartphone, all over the world. The key to Rangers future off the radar wealth is based on this and other similar staggering claims from the increasingly comical figure from Yorkshire
Now we all know Green is exhibiting strong signs of desperation. Only a desperate man would make the claims he makes. A confident man, with a viable plan, and sufficient liquidity to see him through the next 3 years, would say little now the season books are in the bag. However a desperate man will overhype ,oversell and over exaggerate every position in an attempt to convince the gullible
Lets look at where Green is just now, and where he stands in relation to his previous claims.
Investors
One investor of note, in Dubai, who has committed £2 million. The rest are a collection of unknowns or individuals with as much visible wealth as Craig Whyte. It’s not an impressive list, and its defined by a lack of Scottish investors. The Rangers supporters of substance who know as well as anyone how much of a challenge their club faces have voted against Green with their wallets
Advisors
Zeus Capital are very much Z list. Whilst nobody expected Goldman Sachs or JP Morgan, Zeus really are scraping the barrel. Founded in 2002, they liquidated in 2009 and reformed after a series of name changes, ending up with their original name. Their turnover is a paltry £1.6 million and they have made losses on 3 out of the 4 years they reported. The profitable year showed they made £10,000 ( or one days wages for a decent EPL player)
Board
Malcolm Murray has had a decent career and is a cut above anything else on the board, however he is non exec and won’t be running the business. Greens track record is less than stellar. He claims to have floated 30 companies, although there is no evidence to support that claim . What there is evidence a plenty of however, is involvement with a large number of failed business’. What there isn’t is evidence of success. The other 2 directors are Imran Ahmad and Brian Stockbridge. I have checked on both of these guys and can find no other business where they were appointed as Directors. In fact Equifax are quite explicit in that they have never been a director of any UK company. Rookies by definition have no track record and Rangers is not the gig for a rookie, as the evidence of the team shows.
So based on Investors and advisors and the board there has to be huge question marks over Green . It is therefore best to turn to what he has achieved and to look at his promises to date.
CVA
Well he didn’t guarantee the CVA would be accepted, but he told anyone who would listen that he was very confident it would be. In fact he went further , he said he had been told verbally it was , and was just waiting for a letter from HMRC to confirm. I think we can take it now that this was either an outright lie or he is a an who doesn’t understand what he is being told.
Playing staff
Tom English reminded us that Green claimed to have 19 players lined up, 5 of whom were playing at Euro 2012. Not only did he fail to deliver a single player who was at Euro 2012, he only delivered 40% of the number he wanted and his manager was desperate for.
SPL entry
Green was desperate or this and told anyone who would listen that the SPL needed Rangers and commercial contracts would not be honored without Rangers. Green told potential investors he was very confident that SPL entry would be confirmed with sanctions which had minimal financial impact on Rangers
SFL entry
Having been made to look foolish over SPL entry you would think Green would have learned the lesson, however he and his media attack dogs such as Traynor and Young continued to offend the very people who held Rangers future in their hands. Threats and intimidation of Armageddon had no effect, and Green’s arrogance and condescending attitude contributed to the decision to allow Rangers entry only at the very bottom of the SFL . The Blue Knights financial plans always envisioned an SFL 3 start, however Green did not and reacted predictably by appealing to the worst element of his fan base.
Having failed miserably on the CVA , Squad recruitment and League entry it’s wise to be highly skeptical about Greens other claims. These claims are so many in number and wild in their nature it would take a mini series just to dissect them. However I want to return to the claim of 500 million paying subscribers for Rangers games
500 million paying subscribers
Lets look at the key elements of this claim .
That’s 7% of the worlds population. However crucially 32% of the world is under 18 and 6% is over 75. That means that Greens 500 million is actually 13% of the population in the age groups with economic decision making
However Rangers are almost completely unknown in Africa and Asia, so using the demographics of Europe , North America and Oceania , Green expects over 40% of these people to pay to watch his club. When you factor in the age groups he is claiming that over 7 out of every 10 men and women in these continents will pay to watch Rangers
That is itself is so grossly overstated , it should make any statement he makes subject to scepticism . To make statements like this in the pursuit of cash from a financially unsophisticated audience is both shameless and shameful
To put his claim into context it is best to compare the worlds most successful leagues and their record in this area.
The NFL have a contract with Verizon , the mobile company, to provide exclusive live coverage. Verizon initially provided this free to subscribers, however now change $5 per month to watch this. Verizon’s total subscriber base is 102 million and of these approximately 14 million pay for the NFL service. That’s to watch every single team in the league. Every single one of these 32 teams is bigger than Rangers
The smallest team by revenue in the NFL is the Jacksonville Jaguars with annual revenue of $239 million or 3 times the size of Rangers
That puts Greens nonsense into perspective . He is claiming that he can sell to 35 times as many subscribers as the entire NFL. Baseball has even less subscribers than the NFL. Green claims he has been in discussion on Wall St regarding investors . I seriously doubt that claim, however if he did manage to get in front of anyone to make his pitch, then the certainty is he would be told he is certifiable, delusional and in serious need of a reality check
It’s not a pretty picture for Rangers fans . They are being asked to buy into a man who has failed time after time, has not delivered any key objectives so far and makes claims of a future which is a figment of his imagination
They should trust their initial instincts that he was a charlatan. We as Celtic supporters should hope he remains, because as long as he is there it prevents the credible and capable from taking over
Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
Monday, October 15, 2012 at 11:48
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
For example, maybe Sevco have TUPE’d over all the back room staff/employees on their previous terms and conditions, but they could have said to the players – sorry, we can’t afford you – you are free to go or accept this new offer.
Some didn’t accept it – walking away knowing they would get a better offer elsewhere, some decided to stay.
Is it possible that the ones who accepted to stay were part of the “certain assets” who transferred (not the player themselves, but their registration with SFA) and the ones who didn’t were not transferred over and their contract was terminated with RFC PLC (IA) and they were free?
is this possible?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
No, that would breach TUPE regulations. If the job is there they have to transfer them over (if the employee wishes) at the existing rates and conditions. They may then try to renegotiate their contracts, of course, but why would a player’s agent let him do that?
(As an aside: I was thinking over the weekend, the Sevco players must be part of an elite group of players who are not actually contracted to a football club.)
torrejohnbhoy says: at 11:14
Danish Pastry says: at 07:44
torrejohnbhoy says: at 05:27
From P McC:
http://www.thelawyer.com/1014897.article
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What does this actually mean?
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Best to reference last creditors report 8.5 to 8.9 – as only `official` guidance for context
There was a trial scheduled with CB 31 Oct but now postponed?
Curious
Humble Pie says:
Monday, October 15, 2012 at 11:59
5 0 Rate This
Honestly, prior to this sudden affliction of ultra-sensitivity which has taken over them, has anyone on here ever heard of Rangers (sic) fans being referred to as daleks ? I have been around a long time and have been in the company of all manner of numpty and I have certainly never heard it before now. In fact, when I did hear it (on RM), I assumed it was because of their recent proclivity towards the desire to ‘exterminate’ their perceived enemies (SFA, SPL, MSM, CFC et al).
———————————–
i asked this question of the Not The Huddle email list members – they are all old timers in there!
Nope, not one had ever heard of the term being used in relation to the Ibrox disaster/RFC fans
Humble Pie says:
Monday, October 15, 2012 at 11:59
While the cultural reference can be made if you so desired as angus says no-one seems to have heard that used before in that context.
I have never heard anyone make any jokes whatsoever about the Ibrox disaster and rightly so because anyone who attends a game, even in todays modern stadiums, can still see the potential for death and injury to occur if there was a surge of people at stairwells and the likes. There nby the grace of god etc….
Anyway the whole thing came about when Thomson was involved in a twitter with someone discussing the lack of wasps this summer. Only the demented took wasps to mean White Anglo Saxon Protestants and then caught onto the supposed Dalek slur.
A bit like having trouble with Snoopy towards the end of the clip below. If it wasn’t so close to the truth it would be funny.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4SJgeHq7Q8
A wee bit off topic here – sorry, was on holiday last week and just catching up on a few things. Listening to the SSB podcast from last thursday – main conversation was share issue and “that” banner.
One of the meeja presstitutes states he found the banner offensive because “everyone who has grown up in this part of the country knows there was a paramilitary element to it”
I’d disagree, but OK, if we are going down that path, then why is there NEVER any comment about the annual bigot fest fundraiser being played between Linfield and RFC, the “Oranje” strips and what message Chuckle posing on one for a photo actually means?
My point is not about RFC/Celtic/whataboutery, but about the medias understanding of the issues in the west of scotland. It’s fine to suggest a banner from a celtic supporter has paramilitary links, links we all know about, but we’ll not comment on the message chuckles posing in a orange strip sends out? Chuckles has stated on at least 3 occasions now they will have an orange away strip. Why is this so important? And if “everyone who has grown up in this part of the country” knows the true meaning of this, why haven’t they been told it’s simply not on.
Does anyone think the SFA stating that RFC/Sevco will not be allowed to register an Orange strip would be an unacceptable thing to do in this day and age and given the tensions amongst Sevconians and Celtic supporters right now.
Danish Pastry says:
Monday, October 15, 2012 at 07:44
torrejohnbhoy says:
Monday, October 15, 2012 at 05:27
2 1 Rate This
From P McC:
http://www.thelawyer.com/1014897.article
“ ……….Former Collyer Bristow partner and ex-Rangers Football Club company secretary Gary Withey has dropped plans to join the £25m trial over the football club’s finances as a defendant.
The Lawyer reported in August that proceedings had been delayed after Withey expressed a desire to defend himself against allegations regarding his conduct in a claim for damages against his former firm ………..”
I think Danish that the words “ … proceedings have been delayed ……” are the important ones. This whole sorry saga has been one delay after the next. This was in my opinion a deliberate ploy to get the court case delayed. Someone doesn’t want any inconvenient truths out there from a court of law. It might interfere with share issues etc. Wonder who it could be?
On a different slant. A little nugget of information off the radio this morning. Apparently Spain’s last European qualifier was not televised live. The licensing football authorities wanted too much. With no takers, they apparently dropped the price, but again no one stepped up. Spain’s economy is not too clever, but this apparently is unheard off. Maybe a tiny, tiny speck of financial sanity is beginning to creep into football. However with SKY’s latest EP deal you wonder.
(sorry, still catching up on last weeks events)
So, chuckles is claiming Sevco have an audience of 500M people
REALLY? Seriously?
Has there been any response to this claim from the meeja? Has anyone challenged that figure?
£100M income from media rights through people viewing games on their phones/PC – you’d wonder why RFC didn’t try that in the past…..oh, they did…..oh, it wasn’t achieved.
European league…….yawn……..Not going to happen on UEFA/FIFA’s watch, but even if it did, it won’t be for 3rd division outfits…..and chuckles has already confirmed they refuse to enter the top flight league so it’s unlikely they’ll ever play in europe again, Scottish Cup qualification excluded)
angus1983 says:
Monday, October 15, 2012 at 11:28
The Rangers wage bill has went from £30M, down to £6M? Really?
Davis £25K/pw(£1.3M/pa). McGregor £25K/pw(£1.3M/pa). Whittaker £20K/pw(£1.04M/pa). Lafferty £15K/pw(£780K/pa). Naismith £15K/pw(£780K/pa). Bocanegra £10K/pw(£520K/pa). Edu £10K/pw(£520K/pa). Goian £10K/pw(£520K/pa). Aluko £5K/pw(£260K/pa). Fleck £5K/pw(£260K/pa). McCabe £2.5K/pw(£130K/pa). Ness £2.5K/pw(£130K/pa).
Total = £7.54M/pa.
That would mean the previous wage bill of £30M, has been cut to £22.46M (Without the added wages of the players who signed this season), not £6M.
——
Excuse my ignorance, but how, then, has Mr Charles arrived at the figure of £6m?
…………………………………………………………………
I would say its also certain that they are still paying a part of the loan wages for Bocanegra and Goian who would both have left on frees if any club had offered them the wages they were already on?
the term daleks is only ever used by “wild zealots on the extreme wing of the Celtic support” while in the company of other “wild zealots on the extreme wing of the Celtic support”
they must have a secret sign, obviously.
Gers chief executive Green launched a share issue last week he hopes will raise £20million for the Ibrox club. But the English businessman has publicly admitted in the past his group are looking to make a profit on their £5.5million investment.
And doubts remain among large sections of the Light Blues support about where their money will go if they choose to invest.
However, Green has met with official supporters’ groups and confirmed any cash raised will all be ploughed into Rangers.
“In recent meetings, both with ourselves and other fans’ organisations, many of the issues that have been troubling fans have been addressed,” said Rangers Supporters Trust spokesman Mark Dingwall.
“The money from the share issue will remain in the club and won’t be distributed to his group through dividends. “In addition, the property assets of the club will remain within the club and will not be sold off. We welcome Mr Green’s openness in dealing with the fans.”
Dingwall added: “We have asked Mr Green how his group plans to make money and he told us by uplifting the share value.
“The only way they can do that and crystalise their investment is by having a properly run club. It is in their best interests for the club to flourish.”
He went on: “After all that happened under the stewardship of the David Murray and Craig Whyte regimes, Mr Green’s group was always going to be examined very carefully.
“But so far I think many fans have been very positive about the initiatives put forward by Mr Green and his group.
“There has also been mention of non-executive directors being appointed to oversee the corporate governance of the club.
“Having a unified fans’ voice and representation on the board is positive. Fans are capable of playing their part in the running of the club.”
And doubts remain among large sections of the Light Blues support about where their money will go if they choose to invest.
However, Green has met with official supporters’ groups and confirmed any cash raised will all be ploughed into Rangers.
“In recent meetings, both with ourselves and other fans’ organisations, many of the issues that have been troubling fans have been addressed,” said Rangers Supporters Trust spokesman Mark Dingwall.
“The money from the share issue will remain in the club and won’t be distributed to his group through dividends.
“In addition, the property assets of the club will remain within the club and will not be sold off. We welcome Mr Green’s openness in dealing with the fans.”
Dingwall added: “We have asked Mr Green how his group plans to make money and he told us by uplifting the share value.
“The only way they can do that and crystalise their investment is by having a properly run club. It is in their best interests for the club to flourish.”
He went on: “After all that happened under the stewardship of the David Murray and Craig Whyte regimes, Mr Green’s group was always going to be examined very carefully.
“But so far I think many fans have been very positive about the initiatives put forward by Mr Green and his group.
“There has also been mention of non-executive directors being appointed to oversee the corporate governance of the club.
“Having a unified fans’ voice and representation on the board is positive. Fans are capable of playing their part in the running of the club.”
Not sure if already posted taken from r.m
RM briefly back up again, so let’s see what they’re saying about the Fighting Fund, which has mysteriously disappeared with half a million quid in its back pocket …
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What’s happened to this, I know there is just over 500k sitting in it, but this topic has gone quiet.
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I think you will find that this is awaiting the outcome of the SPL quest to strip titles and will fund the legal defence of our trophies which were won fairly and squarely on the park, 11 men against 11. The SPL does not have £500k to spend on lawyers.
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Honest it’s just resting on my account.
Serious it makes sense as mentioned above, if those thieves try and steal sporting achievements based on what has happened , then no better use for this fund then to haul them into court.
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Ready to tear ‘Lord’ Nimmo and his clan to bits.
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Didnt charles green officialy buy our titles
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Serious or sarcastic? Either way, expand.
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He did yes. See his statement of a few weeks back when he said Rangers would not be attending the SPL kangaroo court.
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have just checked the RFFF website.
total as of 15th june fund stands at £617,115.86
i have no idea why its not been updated since then,would be very helpful if they did though
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That is the total received, there has been expenditure and the current balance is £524,000
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“We have asked Mr Green how his group plans to make money and he told us by uplifting the share value”.
And Mr Green leaves the shareholder to the mercy of the AIM, where the pack will decide what value this share is going to have. AIM investors are not the type to wait around for dividends, they will short or long the share based on their instinct. The Board may keep itself the option of issuing more shares or buying back shares but the market makers are going to decide whether this is going to be a penny share. Going by past experience, football tend to fall in value, and there is a scramble to get out while some money is still recoverable. This is a share made for shorters.
pau1mart1n says:
Monday, October 15, 2012 at 13:25
1 0 i Rate This
the term daleks is only ever used by “wild zealots on the extreme wing of the Celtic support” while in the company of other “wild zealots on the extreme wing of the Celtic support”
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Speaking as an extreme zealot on the extreme wing of the Celtic support I can say that I have never used or heard the term “dalek” being used in reference to Rangers or the Rangers fans in any way. Even when speaking to other wild zealots on the extreme wing of the Celtic support.
In among all the AIM-listing madness on Thursday, CG apparently announced they’d reached an agreement with Sheffield Wednesday over Rhys McCabe:
“Rangers and Sheffield Wednesday have agreed terms over Rhys McCabe,” said Rangers chief executive Charles Green.
He added: “Sheffield Wednesday have acted in good faith and recognised our rights as a club during the process. We wish them every success this season and beyond and while we were disappointed Rhys decided his future lies away from Rangers we wish him well for the future.”
.
http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/mccabe-fee-agreed-180226980.html
I know we’ve been here before with Steven Davis / Southampton, but given that McCabe never TUPE’d over to Sevco from RFC(IA), what entitlement would Sevco have to any cash for McCabe?
Might be worth mentioning that I couldn’t find any statement from SWFC confirming any agreement, or a mention of any amount of money changing hands, undisclosed or otherwise.
Written by Alice K Ross for the Bureau of
Investigative Journalism
http://www.financial-news.co.uk/8022/2012/10/glasgow-rangers-fans-threaten-over-media-coverage/
More RM twisting of the truth (I think they really believe these things, you know):
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Scotsman: “It might equally be argued that their hosting of Queen’s Park in the Third Division on Saturday is the newest Glasgow derby.”
RM user “54andcounting”: It can not be “argued” in Law as I have demonstrated by “THE RT HON LORD NIMMO SMITH” Definition regarding the status of Rangers FC.
——
There must be someone on here with an RM account. Any chance of going and explaining to this person “54andcounting” that LNS’s published opinion was based on the SPL Rules, and not THE LAW? And that, in the eyes of THE LAW (and just about everyone except the SPL), TRFC are a NEW CLUB.
Wilful ignorance is what is going to lead these peepil over the cliff again.
redetin says:
Monday, October 15, 2012 at 13:54
This is a share made for shorters
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Are you suggesting that CG plans to make money for his initial investers by betting on the share price dropping? How could he do such a thing! I mean his vision for the future is so tangible!
angus1983 says:
Monday, October 15, 2012 at 13:51
RM briefly back up again, so let’s see what they’re saying about the Fighting Fund, which has mysteriously disappeared with half a million quid in its back pocket …
====================
The comments are just a bit sad, really. You can take these chumps to the cleaners every day for a year,and they just keep paying. Well, I suppose that’s the mindset Charles Green is counting on, and he will prosper mightily on the back of it.
They all see themselves as supremacist Ubermensch, lording it over the rest of us,whereas in reality they are just a bunch of pathetic losers. Can there ever, in world history, have been a more a gaping void between self image and reality than exhibited by the supporters of TRFC?
I’m sure that there is a book to be written on this, although maybe P T Barnum (the spiritual ancestor of Charles Green?) has said it all already- there’s a sucker born every minute. But why do most of them support TRFC?
WeI have published a letter from Corsica’s family to corsicacharity. It’s on the Corsica page.
Corsicacharity wasn’t sure whether or not it should be published in view of Corsica’s reluctance to have himself subjected to cult status, however on balance, the mods agreed that it was right to pass on the his family’s words directly.
I will retire the Corsica page to the archive in a week or so.
angus1983 says:
Monday, October 15, 2012 at 09:17
Although you could read his comment as “The Peepil had the opportunity to Do Walking Away over the summer and chose not to.”
======================
It’s possible he meant it that way because who’s to say whether the words on the page reflect what went on in the interview. (We’re talking about Scottish sportswriting here after all.) But from the context – ND holding the office he does and the article’s being about touting SPL’s not needing Rangers – I took it to mean he was referring to top tier fans only. Still, one swallow and all that… I’m hoping things have changed but I’m not quite ready to bet five hundred quid on it. 🙂
Written by Alice K Ross for the Bureau of
Investigative Journalism
http://www.financial-news.co.uk/8022/2012/10/glasgow-rangers-fans-threaten-over-media-coverage/
__________________________________________________________
The comments by Sevco fans on this article have to be seen to be believed. The total denial of all the filfth their “fans” spout, the baseless denigration of a brave, UNBIASED” journalist, the claims of lies, bigotry and “agendas”. I weep for Scotland that such deluded, small minded fools not only exist but flourish. I look forward to the eventual implosion of Sevco. Perhaps then we can begin the long, slow road to curing Scottish society.
I have heard many expressions but never the term Dalek in my entire life in reference to a Rangers fan. In fact I had never heard the term WASP or Dalek until it was raised on the same thread in that post on RTC relating to Alex Thomson blog. I’m more familiar with the term Bee 🙂
neepheid says:
Monday, October 15, 2012 at 14:13
It probably would make the backbone of a good book. However, it’d never get published because it’d be too unbelievable. Truth is stranger than fiction and all that.
I’m finding it hard to get past the fact that this is the third time this has happened to the bears and they still lap it up. Everyone else is “obsessed” and a “hater”. They are utterly blinded to a man who genuinely defines the term “snake-oil salesman”. One thing I can’t stand is arrogance, and it is the arrogance of the average bear that Mr Charles is feeding off.
I have little doubt that when Mr Charles scarpers with the loot, someone else will come along and do the same thing again.
The bears’ mindset will be that no-one would have the barefaced cheek to rip them for a fourth time in a row (cf. third time in a row, which is working quite nicely). And this will be what the next crook relies on.
My only doubt is that anyone will take over a club that has recently been bled dry of fans’ money.
TRFC fans complain of being kicked when they’re down. I have news for them -they’re not down. They’re not finished falling yet.
Mr Charles aims to maximise cash donations, then exit stage left. He makes no secret of this, and when he does it he will happily point out the fact that he has said as much on several occasions.
TRFC fans’ only hope is that he leaves TRFC on some kind of a solid financial footing when he does so. Which doesn’t look too likely. I will be genuinely surprised if they see out the season.
Delighted to see that the October edition of CQN magazine has been published and dedicated to the memory of Corsica. Not to mention yours truly as this month’s ‘guest columnist’ (take that Jabba! and Mr Baird, my old English teacher) and the excellent article on the similarities or otherwise of the Rangers’ and Lance Armstrong sagas by BRTH, both of which appeared first here on “the excellent Scottish Football Monitor”. 😀
OK
is this the likely scenario – which would mean Chuckies latest utterings on where the share floatation money would go absolutely true.
Chuckie and his initial investors bought the assets for anywhere between 2.75 and 5.5m
some legal costs, set up costs and such like – lets say another £2m
So, they are out for about £5-7.5M
ST sales brought in about £7m (after Vat deductions)
That money has been given back the the original consortium and they have their money back.
The share floatation will see 49% of the company put into the hands of fans. If it raises 2-3-4-5 or even 20M is not that important. As that money WILL go into the clubs bank and will be used to pay for running costs, future player purchases and infrastructure development
the only thing is – the consortium have effectively got a controlling interest in Rangers for free
Then, sell their controlling stake it to Walter/Blue Knights/Bomber/Bill Ng or anyone else for £5-7.5M and they have made their 100% return on the initial investment – and they have delivered a debt free RFC into the hands of the fans.
Or they could go down the liquidation route again – having already moved the property assets out to another company etc. (you all know the script with what’ll happen next if they go into admin again)
courtesy of a wee reminder from BillyBhoy on RTC……… (remember to join the dots…. easy to forget all these ‘old school connections’……. Whyte/Withey/Green/Earley/ FFW/D&P/ FORMATION GROUP ………
http://rangerstaxcase.wordpress.com/2012/05/30/a-permanent-embarrassment-and-an-occasional-disgrace/comment-page-83/#comment-107595
BillyBhoy68 says:
07/06/2012 at 11:31 pm
Anyone care to elaborate on the confidence shown by Ticketus members in recovery of amounts due to guarantees ?
The recently filed Ticketus LLP and Ticketus 2 LLP accounts are linked below.
http://www.scribd.com/collections/3654229/TicketusAccounts2011
This has been signed off nearly 6 weeks after Lord Hodges review, so I remain a bit perplexed at the confidence indicated in gaining a full recovery.
You might also remember the Jerome Pension Fund, An update from the Worthington Group PLC was posted on the 1 June 2012. There’s a mention with regards to the loan to RFC. Funnily enough, the boardroom restructure is really just a reshuffle from earlier acquaintances of Earley/Whyte.
http://www.iii.co.uk/investment/detail/?display=news&code=cotn:WRN.L&action=article&articleid=8604164
I’ve included their latest return within the Ticketus Accounts collection. I happened to notice Worthingtons Solicitors. Is this just a co-incidence given that the company is also the advisers to Charles Green in his takeover attempt ?
chris shields (@chrisshields10) says:
Monday, October 15, 2012 at 14:12
redetin says:
Monday, October 15, 2012 at 13:54
This is a share made for shorters
————————————————-
Are you suggesting that CG plans to make money for his initial investers by betting on the share price dropping? How could he do such a thing! I mean his vision for the future is so tangible!
____________________________________________________________________________
The market makers will make their money via the difference between the bid and offer prices. They will make money whether the price rises or falls, and they will set their prices in accordance with what will make them a return. The AIM is not a good place for a small investor.
I have no idea what CG plans to do, no insights whatsoever. But anyone who is playing in the AIM needs to have a strategy for a rapid fall. Take a look at CHAR as an example.
http://www.lse.co.uk/shareChat.asp?page=28&ShareTicker=CHAR&1#5957054
…or MHG (10.6% owned by CW) if you can stomach it. They walked it down to 0.04p before it was suspended.
Sorry, click on the share charts of CHAR to see a dive from over £1 to 30p in the space of a week.
http://www.lse.co.uk/shareChat.asp?page=28&ShareTicker=CHAR&1#5957054
Confusion raining on new RangersMedia site. They have removed the ‘rep’ system. Posters don’t know whose opinion it’s ok to agree with or what to get offended about. Timposters will have a field day!
the Scotland on Sunday – Andew Smith no less – also advertised The Rangers game’s ticket prices – so sadly all the papers are at it not just the Daily Record – which at least keeps the Tam Cowan column unlike the other papers silences. I’m not against advertising matches in principle….it’s just a pity they don’t do this for all the other teams in Scotland….!!!!
Phil MacGiollaBhain @Pmacgiollabhain
What would happen to the Sevco share flotation if BDO went to court for a Judicial Review on the asset sale? I have no idea #CrowdSourced
Expand Reply Retweet Favorite
2h John Summers @johnsummers65
@Pmacgiollabhain You heard something we haven’t Phil?
Expand Reply Retweet Favorite
2h Phil MacGiollaBhain @Pmacgiollabhain
@johnsummers65 as if…
Craig Levein telling us that the Scottish players are travelling to Belgium armed with a sense of grievance/injustice, after the Wales match.
I sincerely hope they are much more motivated than that!
Shaun Maloney openly and repeatedly admitted that he DID trip Gareth Bale. And the players also know that the other incident WAS a penalty.
Maybe Craig witnessed one of the players booting in the dressing room door. Or something.
doontheslope says:
Monday, October 15, 2012 at 19:05
======
Grievance, that could only be because the showers were cold.
neveroffside says:
Monday, October 15, 2012 at 18:13
16 0 Rate This
the Scotland on Sunday – Andew Smith no less – also advertised The Rangers game’s ticket prices – so sadly all the papers are at it not just the Daily Record – which at least keeps the Tam Cowan column unlike the other papers silences. I’m not against advertising matches in principle….it’s just a pity they don’t do this for all the other teams in Scotland….!!!!
—————————————————————–
Why the need to promote this anyway? Have none of the 500,000,000 Rangers fans a fixture list and the premium rate number to call to find out for themselves? At £2 a minute, Charles will be livid! And he expects them to watch games on their smart phones?
briggsbhoy says:
Monday, October 15, 2012 at 15:19
I have heard many expressions but never the term Dalek in my entire life in reference to a Rangers fan. In fact I had never heard the term WASP or Dalek until it was raised on the same thread in that post on RTC relating to Alex Thomson blog. I’m more familiar with the term Bee
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Wasps are an English Rugby Union team. I’m not sure if they have a Bee team
Hey folks can we cut out the comments like ” we as Celtic fans”.
I’m not. I feel honoured to be a member of this board, and don’t want to feel an outsider peeking in.
This is about scottish football and the triggers broom sideshow. Not a gloat fest from parkhead.
I’ll get my maroon coat……….
I notice in the article promoting the QP match Sandy Willie Puller trying and failing not to sound arrogant – “If you were a Stirling fan you’d be so proud of your team but they will never get to that level again. It was a total one-off”. Words that should be pinned to the Stirling Albion dressing room wall ahead of their other THREE meetings with T’Rangers this season.
Can we perhaps focus the giant brains on the licensing question? Seems to me that the options are twofold, either:
1) Sevco’s SFA Licence application included the information that they were likely to need a cash injection, of large but variable nature, predicated on the goodwill of their customer base, well inside their first year. In this scenario, it seems to me that the SFA were neglecting duties to other members in granting the application, or:
2) The subject was never mentioned. In which case, the SFA should get them in the room where the bright light shines, and ask them why not. Was the original grant conditional/provisional?
Grateful for any input.
bobferris70 says:
Monday, October 15, 2012 at 19:47
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I notice in the article promoting the QP match Sandy Willie Puller trying and failing not to sound arrogant – “If you were a Stirling fan you’d be so proud of your team but they will never get to that level again. It was a total one-off”. Words that should be pinned to the Stirling Albion dressing room wall ahead of their other THREE meetings with T’Rangers this season.
===================
Well spotted – perhaps it should also be in the Peterhead, Brechin and Annan dressing rooms – presumably they were all “one-off” draws ? The arrogance remains…. stunning in its ignorance of the obvious facts – away record in SFL3 – W0 D3 L1 ….. does this not tell you something Sandy ?
If and when Sevco get their 1st win away in Div 3 it would be good for a representative of the home team to use the same statement, subbing Sevco for Stirling 🙂
bobferris70 says:
Monday, October 15, 2012 at 19:47
I notice in the article promoting the QP match Sandy Willie Puller trying and failing not to sound arrogant – “If you were a Stirling fan you’d be so proud of your team but they will never get to that level again. It was a total one-off”. Words that should be pinned to the Stirling Albion dressing room wall ahead of their other THREE meetings with T’Rangers this season.
……………………………………………………..
Over the next ? years Stirling Albion should have plenty of chances get “to that level again” as they play The Rangers in the SFL, remember Charlie has stated categorically that the Rangers wont play in the SPL so unless Stirling Albion get there, then they will always have the chance to play The Rangers in one of the SFL divisions.
Re: Phil’s tweets from earlier, I’ve had a look at the rules of floating on AIM and blogged on it at http://www.thefootballlife.co.uk/post/33653859988/sevco-ipo-or-cheerio
In short, if BDO get involved before the shares float, the titanic sinks.
Richard Wilson (@timomouse) says:
Monday, October 15, 2012 at 20:16
===========
Thanks for that, interesting times.
Maybe we should just leave Charlie to get his cash ?
====================================================
Rather than be negative about the proposed share sale, perhaps we should simply say “Good Luck” to Charlie and the Sevco fans ?
Well, we have incomplete information, but strong reservations about the sale. The MSM – generally – seems to be avoiding saying anything negative about the share sale so far, [with a few notable exceptions.]
The share sale is just a ‘relatively’ minor distraction in the great scheme of things, and we could refocus on the significant points that affect all Scottish football fans, including e.g. ;
– why did Rangers get a Euro licence for season 2011/12 ?
– was there collusion at the SFA/SPL over many years wrt Rangers and EBT’s ?
– will titles be stripped as a consequence ?
– what punishments will be applied if titles are stripped ?
[including life bans for (S)DM, and other directors – such as CO ?]
– the SFA/SPL is generally viewed with mistrust by most Scottish football fans. In order to try and restore that trust, when will there be an independent review of both organisations’ behaviour in recent years – and over the last 8 months in particular ?
– why is Campbell Ogilvie STILL SFA President ?
etc… 🙄
tomahawkid
I didn’t see any remarks like that on here tomahawkid. In fact I think most of the Celtic fans here are anxious not to appear to have exclusive ownership.
I did have a quick trawl when I saw your comment, but failed to find anything.
What Charles Green is planning with the share issue at Rangers is almost identical to what Felix Baumgarten did yesterday!
Yes, jumping out of a space balloon is brave, but the record books will show that he pulled his chute early.
Too early.
History will say the same of the Rangers AIM flotation.
wjohnston1 says:
Monday, October 15, 2012 at 21:35
‘..I’ll tell you what he did. He openly came out in support of saving Glasgow Rangers….’
————
Not to get into things too immediately political, it’s his refusal to let us know what shape his intervention with HMRC took, rather than the fact that he intervened, that is the problem.
After all, he is of that breed of people who are just fractionally higher in status than MSM ‘churnalists’.( We expect politicians to lie and be devious to a greater extent than journalists).
If he had said ‘ There are lots of jobs at stake here, and in the light of HMRC’s incredibly easy attitude to some of the really big multi-billion pound tax dodgers, I thought I would try to get some kind of a deal to save those jobs” , and then openly published the emails, phone call transcripts or whatever, he would have saved himself a bit of unnecessary grief.
On this issue, I’m prepared to cut him that much slack.( There would, almost certainly, be no overt partisanship involved)
There are other, graver issues on which he has stumbled politically, which are decidedly not for this blog.
tomahawkid says:
Monday, October 15, 2012 at 19:47
well said and can I just say “we as Celtic fans” think yir dead right 🙂
On a more serious note I did myself think that on a couple of excellent posts earlier it would be easy to get this impression this was a Celtic fans blog. If you think we are being out of line please speak up.
Can I also just add I have no problem with a paper publishing a story about an impending game with QP and The Rangers. I think the point that was trying to be made was that this is a minor story when you are avoiding the elephant in the room and not pulling apart Chuckies share issue.
bTW In case there is a misunderstanding when I said “you are avoiding” above I of course meant the newspaper/s in question. Print as many wee stories as you want but dont avoid the biggie
wjohnston1 says:
Monday, October 15, 2012 at 21:35
In my humble opinion his involvement was misconceived esp. as a large number of Rangers (sic) supporters are unionist by default and would never have voted for independence anyway. Again, the Law of Unintended Consequences kicked in and he may have actually lost more votes than he ever had the potential to gain.
To be fair though, AS is just doing what all his ilk do, that is, sucking up to potential voters.
Politics (from the Greek poly, meaning many, and tics, meaning blood-sucking beasties)
john clarke says:
Monday, October 15, 2012 at 22:01
Hands up I gave you a TD for that, sorry!!
redetin says:
Monday, October 15, 2012 at 13:54
18 0 Rate This
“We have asked Mr Green how his group plans to make money and he told us by uplifting the share value”.
And Mr Green leaves the shareholder to the mercy of the AIM, where the pack will decide what value this share is going to have. AIM investors are not the type to wait around for dividends, they will short or long the share based on their instinct. The Board may keep itself the option of issuing more shares or buying back shares but the market makers are going to decide whether this is going to be a penny share. Going by past experience, football tend to fall in value, and there is a scramble to get out while some money is still recoverable. This is a share made for shorters.
____________________________________________________________________________
Couldn’t agree more. this share is made to be shorted. a lot of people will make a lot of money on this share. In future it could well be referred to as the Baumgartner Effect.
There seems to be a general opinion on here that Charlie intends to cut and run with the poppy after the share issue.
How exactly would this be done?
Tomahawk
From my post this morning:
“….which was really just a daily diet of Celtic fans, (and others)….”
————————————————-
“….which was really just a daily diet of Celtic fans, (and some cuddly chaps from Aberdeen, some dapper gents from Gorgie and Easteroad, with the aid of some delightful supporters from Dundee and equally gentile lads from Northern parts….)
Will that do?
tomahawkid says:
Monday, October 15, 2012 at 19:47
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Hey folks can we cut out the comments like ” we as Celtic fans”.
I’m not. I feel honoured to be a member of this board, and don’t want to feel an outsider peeking in.
This is about scottish football and the triggers broom sideshow. Not a gloat fest from parkhead.
I’ll get my maroon coat……….
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Can’t trace the exact quote but you’re presumably not referring to the post Barcabhoy made on CQN where, I think it’s fair to say, most of the audience will be Celtic fans, which in turn was repeated here. If so I think some context is appropriate. Or are we asking for posts from other sites to be edited in some way before publication here ?
One of the most disturbing occurrences in the whole sorry saga of the decline of Rangers and the current rise of The Rangers has been the silence of our politicians who to a man have failed to demonstrate any leadership or shown any vision.
They are all intimidated probably because they feel they are damned if they do and damned if they don’t because in their wee worlds they need all the votes they can get from across the communities.
And where small percentages can be important they have quickly realised that saying nothing is most expedient to keep them in the sleazy power they crave.
In time we will discover Alex and Nicola have worked clumsily under the radar through their civil servants to make sure that Rangers survived even if it meant breaking the sfa rules and in time we’ll find out what he said to HMRC.
And it won’t mark him out as the kind of statesman that our nation needs whether we vote yes or no.
I do know If Sir David and then his old pal’s son, Craig Whyte had evaded millions meant for Alex’s budget he’d have been more animated and done something.
But sadly because the tax evasion didn’t hurt his budgets and powerbase then as far as wee Eck is concerned then it’s someone else’s problem.
Hence the deafening silence and lack of vision.
As John Clarke said just now politicians are not much higher up the evolution scale than the churnalists we’ve come to openly disrespect.
wjohnston1 says:
Monday, October 15, 2012 at 21:35
—————————
I have posted on here before that ‘Rangers’ have survived, debt-free, because HMRC made a special case of them & explicitly stated that they would have no objection to a phoenix RFC.
And that HMRC took this decision after coming under pressure from powerful figures in our society; two of whom – Alex Salmond & David Cameron are ON RECORD as having brought pressure to bear on HMRC.
I was then thoroughly slaughtered by the half dozen posters on TSFM who post the most & think they run t’ings here!
Prepare to be surrounded and put to the sword by the usual suspects!!
All this talk about “WASPs”–surely “ra peepo” (of G51) don’t believe that, aside frhttp://scottishfootballmonitor.wordpress.com/2012/10/07/naming-the-rose/#comment-form-load-service:WordPress.comom everything else, they are Anglo Saxon? Curiouser and curiouser. Or maybe not!
Finloch
One Scottish politician very openly supported and championed Rangers’ cause, his letters were published on RTC.
Another Scottish politician was sent a parcel bomb for wearing a Celtic top.
I thought it was a huge statement to a lot of people.
But apparently, I was wrong. It was a coupla guys watching the A-team and fiddling about with screwdrivers and stuff.
thereek says:
Monday, October 15, 2012 at 22:31
That’s a fair point you make because without looking back I think it was Barcabhoys piece that I thought to myself great piece but it wasn’t very inclusive of the group here in his line about we as Celtic Fans. If I had of course realised that it had been cut and pasted from elsewhere I should not have looked upon it that way. So tomahawkid I’m not retracting my support of your comment but in future I think we need to just check and see where the piece originated from in order to get it’s leanings.
Doon the slope
I remember Ian Davidsons letter.
He was a fan trying to save his team and I can understand that even if it was before the real facts were known.
But one or two swallows didn’t add up to a summer.
I thought Alex Thompsons last blog hit the nail on the head in lots of ways.
Intimidation is rife and the two sectors he missed out were the effects of the intimidation on our politicians and also our police forces.
finloch
I still find it difficult to believe that some avid, low IQ viewers of an American He-man action series, incidentally happened to target The State and The Judiciary alongside Neil Lennon.
briggsbhoy says:
Monday, October 15, 2012 at 22:51
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thereek says:
Monday, October 15, 2012 at 22:31
That’s a fair point you make because without looking back I think it was Barcabhoys piece that I thought to myself great piece but it wasn’t very inclusive of the group here in his line about we as Celtic Fans. If I had of course realised that it had been cut and pasted from elsewhere I should not have looked upon it that way. So tomahawkid I’m not retracting my support of your comment but in future I think we need to just check and see where the piece originated from in order to get it’s leanings.
~~~~~~~~~~~
If we are indeed talking about the copy & paste of Barcabhoys’ comments I’m sure that tomahawkid does not wish those remarks to be censored in any way and recognises that context is all important and that those comments should not be doctored in any way before publication on this site.
I’m sure he’ll confirm that wish here soon enough.
Apologies for the garbled post earlier. ( I had to log in halfway through posting it, and… something happened!) Should have read:
All this talk about “WASPs”–surely “ra peepo” (of G51) don’t believe that–aside from everything else–they are Anglo Saxon? Curiouser and curiouser. Or maybe not!
Observer says:
Monday, October 15, 2012 at 23:04
‘Angus1983′ – a very heavy daily poster
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Well it can’t be the pies… ‘cos Sally ate all of them.
loud and clear, boss 🙂
thereek says:
Monday, October 15, 2012 at 23:22
Indeed, as long as it’s clear where the comments came from or that they were not written by the poster but merely brought to our attention that’s fine by me and I’m sure it will be so for tomahawkid. Nothing should be doctored, it should be as seen and heard !. If I knew how to do a winking face at this point I would, a reference you may not get meek but others who are observant may pick up on it.
Observer says:
Monday, October 15, 2012 at 23:37
‘wjohnston1 says:
Monday, October 15, 2012 at 21:35
Prepare to be surrounded and put to the sword by the usual suspects
—
I expected you to be attacked; didn’t expect yr perfectly reasonable contribution to be actually deleted.
Worrying’
—-
Observer, a wee sense of perspective is called for, I think.
wjohnston1’s contribution was reasonable, certainly, but only if we had all been arguing the merits or demerits of a party political viewpoint.
Which, happily, this blog is not into .
The target, in my view, is not any particular political party, but a culture, an attitude, that is still shared in the circles of the great and the good and the powerful -in politics and football- which requires that there be a RFC as top dog!
All of our political parties will have members ( increasingly few, happily) whose prime allegiance is to something else.
We see this in the sustained level of support for the failed club from the Press ( tabloid and broadsheet) and Radio Scotland,and the Football Authorities, that has never been granted to any other club.
That unanimity of support is indicative of the hold that that pernicious club has, and has had, on the levers of power in those areas.
In my humble opinion!
Lord Wobbly says:
Monday, October 15, 2012 at 23:52
‘..Well it can’t be the pies… ‘cos Sally ate all of them.’
—-
That made me smile. 🙂
Just to nip any infighting in the bud before it starts can I just remiind people that TSFM is running the site out of the goodness of his/her heart.
I have been involved in many sports and social clubs over the years trying to organise things for the enjoyment of others and know from experience that
1) It is a thankless task
2) You can’t please all of the people all of the time
3) There are always some pricks in the background thinking they could do a better job than you. (funnily enough though when the time comes to roll up their sleeves they usually are nowhere to be found).
The site is running perfectly well. TSFM and any helpers doing the moderating of posts are doing a fine job to keep things on track and in line with the aims of the site as best they can
I get no sense that anyone else posting thinks they are running things.
People are just bored and impatient waiting on the FTT, LNS, BDO the Prospectus etc.
Lets all keep the heid.