We spend an inordinate amount of time on this blog arguing about what the re-emergent Rangers should be called. It is a rather circular debate with no way of finding any consensus. The dispute between Rangers (“The Rangerists”) or The Rangers or Sevco (“The Sevconians”) and its claim to be the club that was formed in the 19th century is spurious. Whichever way you look at it, the continuity of the “brand” is undeniable and as long those who wish to keep buying that package are satisfied that the wrapping is authentic – where’s the harm?
The red herring in the argument is that “history” is important. To the average football fan, it is nothing of the kind. As a Celtic fan myself, and a bit of a student of the history of the club, I am constantly dismayed by the Thousand Yard Stare I get from your average Celtic fan who is confronted with the names of people who contributed significantly to the club’s identity. Key figures like Sandy McMahon, Jimmy Delaney, Jimmy McGrory and (God help us) John Thomson rarely elicit recognition.
Modern football fans who live in the instant gratification society of the the WWW and mobile communications may pay lip service to their clubs’ history, but that’s not what gives the modern football fan wears as his badge of honour. That is a commodity often erroneously confused with history – the bragging rights associated with the trophy haul.
The ability to claim that “we have more titles than you” is far more valuable to a supporter than which 19th century attacking centre-back won the Scottish Cup with a last minute header; and the value of said cup wins is heavily weighted in favour of the most recent (save for the honourable exception of the European successes).
The maintenance of that illusion of superiority is crucial if Rangers fans are to believe that their club is still Rangers. Perhaps in time they may even come to fully believe it themselves, but the cataract of column inches devoted to propagating that myth, both from the MSM and from information outlets controlled by Charles Green’s organisation, betrays a lack of total belief by the chief Bear-existentialists. Protesting too much may not be subtle, but that never put off your average fitba’ man either.
The upshot though is this. There is a belief – or at least a hope – amongst Rangerists that the continuity argument holds. They will call the new club Rangers. Fans of other clubs who make up the vast majority of the Sevconian tendency, believe nothing of the kind. They will call it something else.
Many will remind Rangerists that the old club died, and this is factually correct (or at least will be very soon). Rangerists will counter that the Rangers ethos lives on at Ibrox, and despite the worrying overtones (for some) contained in that statement, that is also factually correct.
Rangerists will also point out, as Rangers fans on this blog already have, that the SPL bent over backwards to assist the continuity of the club in order to minimise the financial consequences for Scottish football, and that the SFL too, have agreed that they are the same club.
Why? Simply because Scottish Football thinks it needs to help perpetrate they illusion of continuity to avoid the loss of thousands of paying customers to the game altogether.
So round one has gone to the Rangerists, with the Sevconians pretty much taking an eight-count.
So is the name thing important? I don’t think it is of critical importance. The name in itself doesn’t matter, but to merely agree that everything is as before is to join forces with the MSM, SFA & SPL who have sought to give RFC and their tax theft a pass.
Whatever happens in the future though, the illusion hasn’t worked completely. The Sevconians’ wish to call the new club by a different name was for the purpose of making it synonymous with tax evasion, however the name Rangers now evokes exactly that response. There is now a discernible pause when people mention Rangers. A pause that reflects on the dis-service they did to the country, and to the game of football in Scotland.
Which brings us to the really important point. Throughout this saga rules have been bent. Conflicted individuals, alleged to have been involved in the tax and registration scam and its subsequent cover-up, have remained in positions of authority and power, despite being under a cloud throughout. The media have been complicit, except in rare cases, in allowing the wrong-doing to go unquestioned, actively campaigning for rules not to be applied.
What we have been saying all along is this. Please play the game by the rules, and do not manufacture special cases for the financially powerful.
Call Rangers whatever you wish, but deal with their transgressions appropriately in the spirit of sporting fairness, and within the framework of the existing rules. That is the least – and most – we expect. We don’t ask for much. Just give us back some pride in our sport .
Well said, wottpi !
Wottpi
You got a thumbs up from me. I had no desire to take the bait
wottpi says:
Tuesday, October 16, 2012 at 00:28
‘Lets all keep the heid.’
—
Good man, yourself, wottpi.
Keep the heid indeed…the interest shown by politicitians in the RFC omnishambles (yep, copyrights duly acknowledged) is sort of understandable, I don’t really like politicians anyway, most are just basically professional liars and having actually met a few over the past few years, my opinion only worsened…as pointed out already, they just see voting potential and I just don’t see both the Scottish First Minister and The Westminster PM as folk that would be telling HMRC to lay off RFC–in any respect.
The present problem is the SFA and Campbell Ogilvie. The past problem was Minty, Bain, Murrays, Johnstones etc and they have all gone into hiding, not just apparently but indeed, very obviously. Where are they all? Has anyone honestly any idea?
Gordon Smith too…what a bunch!
Leaving politics out of the blog will ensure most will continue to enjoy participation–besides, it’s pretty much irrelevant at this point in time–it’s C.O. we need to concentrate on–best stick to the job in hand for now me-thinks–which is difficult enough.
Karma won’t escape what is left of T’ Rangers, nor will the SNP escape the mistrust caused by all the murmerings in internet land about their involvement re this fiasco but will it cause them major problems re an independence vote?? No. Not even remotely significant, however, it won’t have won the SNP any favours amongst the Ibrox crowd either. Like i said, the political (SNP or whoever elses) campaigns of these parties wont have overhauling the SFA and improving football structure in any of their manifestos and that is enough to make all of them an irrelevance here.
Yes, politicians might have took a nosey but the process goes on regardless and there are enough rogues in present positions within Scottish football governance that we need rid off, firstly before we start with politicians…politicians are what they are, what on earth does anybody expect different from any of them?
Forget it, at least for now…there really are bigger ‘fish’ to fry…
Ooohh missus…the dreaded TD’s…please yourself though. I’m away tae bed.
There is clearly an agenda being driven towards politics. Is it any coincidence the anti-SNP stuff is surfacing tonight? Hmmm, now, I wonder what the PM and First Minister were doing yesterday in Edinburgh?? Are there pro-unionists abound, are there trolls abound?? It’s one or both–it’s all in the timing, eh?
http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/10/16/gary-witheys-hokey-cokey-delays-rangers-claim-who-benefits/#more-2277
famoussong on Monday, October 15, 2012 at 19:51
Key questions: did the SFA provide a licence believing that TRFC had enough cash to meet their playing obligations? Why did they opt not to ask the Club to put up a bond before a licence was granted?
Maybe a friendly journalist could ask, or a radio pundet could discuss as part of their lunchtime show on Saturday?
Lord Wobbly says:
Monday, October 15, 2012 at 23:52
Observer says:
Monday, October 15, 2012 at 23:04
‘Angus1983′ – a very heavy daily poster
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Well it can’t be the pies… ‘cos Sally ate all of them.
——
Looks like I was mentioned in a deleted post (one of several, judging by the disjointed reading this morning)?
Let it be known that I am not heavy at all. I’m quite mellow.
Wouldn’t have thought i post too much, but maybe I do. Will try to hold my tongue in future. In return, Mr Observer, may I suggest you try not to be so defensive?
testing
Can I repeat a question I asked previously, to a response of absolutely nothing? Maybe it’s a daft question, I don’t know, it’s this: aside from fans’ money, could C. Green have a number, a few would do, of fund managers lined up for “institutional” purchase of the upcoming issue? A percentage point or two of a substantial fund would make Mr Green content.
Given the general expert opinion of the proposed shares, an institutional purchase of this nature would simply transfer cash from existing pensioners’ funds to Mr C. Green’s pension fund. Should we be looking at who these complaisant fund managers might be?
Apologies if already dealt with, or a daft proposition.
‘In short, if BDO get involved before the shares float, the titanic sinks’
————————————————
More like the Mary Celeste!.
As previous posters and Paul McConville in his latest blog suggest, for Charliebhoy to get away with this, it’s all about the timing. And he knows he’d better be quick!
Has anyone any idea as to what, if anything, BDO are doing at the moment as it’s quite clear even to me that Charliebhoy is already working his way through AIM’s list of requirements and timescales.
What we’re witnessing is the second stripping of the renamed carcus. RTC alluded to this even before the RFC going into administration. It’ll probably happen a third time too as RTC has mentioned in recent tweets, a CVA will be much more realistic this time as, I’m assuming, the level of debt will be much less.
The first time this new company falls into administration though, there will be redundancies and scything cuts made to the cloth, points deducted, possible sale of the stadium and any assets still left, rendering TRFC to the deoths of the SFL….
Or am I being too realistic?
Just read over my post. As long as CO is there, I AM being too realistic.
I’m not resourceful nor connected enough to do the digging. I wonder if anyone else has….?
How could we go about asking for an independent, public inquiry into the SFA and SPL? Who would be responsible for for carrying out an investigative inquiry?
It’s surely time the governing bodies are taken to task and we get full and thorough answers. For starters we need the entire registration anomalies situation forensically investigated. Who knew what, when, where, how?
I don’t see how any supporters in Scotland can have any faith or trust in the competence or impartiality of the governing bodies after this decade long shambles.
There is no way Scottish Football can move on from this until those responsible are taken to task and the supporters take back their game. Football needs to be handed over to honest, competent men who actually believe in Scottish Football.
Turnbull Hutton – Your Country Needs You!!
Observer says:
Monday, October 15, 2012 at 23:04
‘Angus1983′ – a very heavy daily poster
There was a small shade of GG in the post, a reference to pants and fire and nobody apologised even after credible witnesses gave back up. You were priveledged as you got a mention which was a tad unjust as I’m sure you’re not a big pie eater.wottpi says:Tuesday, October 16, 2012 at 00:28 jumped in immediately and did his Henry Kissinger.
Hope this curbs your curiosity:)
willmacufree says:
Tuesday, October 16, 2012 at 09:13
Can I repeat a question I asked previously, to a response of absolutely nothing? Maybe it’s a daft question, I don’t know, it’s this: aside from fans’ money, could C. Green have a number, a few would do, of fund managers lined up for “institutional” purchase of the upcoming issue? A percentage point or two of a substantial fund would make Mr Green content.
=================================
That’s an interesting question, which deserves some sort of reply. It’s certainly not a daft question.
My first instinct, when Green mentioned institutional investors, was just to laugh out loud. What fund manager would risk his own reputation, his annual bonus and indeed his city career by effectively flushing some of his investors’ cash down the toilet?
Why would they do that? Personal loyalty to Green? Well, Green’s track record in the city can’t have made him too many friends. Losing other people’s money on a consistent basis is not the way to make friends among the fund managers.
Personal loyalty to Rangers? There may be some deeply loyal “Rangers Men” among the fund managers, but are any of them going to stick their neck out and put in a few million of pensioners’ money? It is, of course, possible, but to do so would be very foolish indeed.
Your investment decision will be clearly identified on the TRFC share register, in fact any million plus share block will stick out like a sore thumb. So the pensioners can find out what you did with “their” money. A large number of them aren’t going to like you indulging a personal hobby at their expense, and some (probably, but not necessarily, of a CFC persuasion) might well be inclined to kick up a stink with your employer.
Also, if there are city types around who can access millions to make dodgy investments in TRFC for sentimental reasons, where exactly were they 6 months ago? There was no cash forthcoming then, when there was actually the potential to make a profit, as Green is about to demonstrate.
There may be some city money involved in Green’s consortium, of course, I think Octupus has been mentioned before, but they absolutely will not be buying any shares in this flotation. They will want out with a profit. Buying these AIM shares is just a guaranteed loss. The City won’t touch them.
Charlie will of course spin it by declaring that he has had so much interest from the fans, that he doesn’t need institutional investors, so he’s reserving the whole issue for the little people. The bears will just lap it up.
I haven’t seen it mentioned elsewhere, but if this goes ahead before Christmas, the effect on the West of Scotland economy will be dire. £20million hoovered up by Green, that’s £20million less for the bears to spend on toys and turkeys. Who would be a toyshop owner in Govan this Christmas?
If I can clarify what went on last evening. I understand that politicians of every party have had a hand in the Rangers saga in some way. Consequently, I think that this makes those politicians and their actions worthy of discussion.
However when the situation in Scottish football is turned into a party political points scoring or name calling exercise, then our view is that a line has been crossed, and posts which are judged to have crossed that line will be removed. When people have posts removed, and they genuinely don’t understand why, they often ask privately via the contacts page (as we ask them to). The “rhetoric test” is failed though if, despite those requests to the contrary they continue to clog up the blog with plaintive cries – not for an explanation, but to get an audience and take the blog off track.
Last night one of our posters failed the rhetoric test. Not only did he portray a scenario of Armageddon for the blog because TSFM (all of us I suppose) “is a Nationalist”, but whilst not being banned from posting, created another identity to add weight to the argument that we at TSFM are doomed.
That poster(s), who we have been watching for some time, had an IP address and email addresses identical to one of our famous “gilded” trolls – which brings me back to the point about party political discussion. If people are split across party lines, then the blog is diverted from the useful forensic work that many contributors are pursuing.
TSFM is not following any political agenda at all, other than in the narrow Scottish football sense. We try to moderate fairly, and in matters like this we have to make a judgement. I would ask that contributors trust that those judgements are made in good faith. If people are unhappy with that, then I am sure they will (as several have) simply stop posting. I should add at this juncture that in the last three weeks, posts have gone down by 20%, although the page views on the site are up by around 10%. So fewer comments, but more readers. Go figure.
We do realise that it is frustrating when a post is removed, so we are opening up the “About” page comments so that people can vent any frustrations (not repost the stuff that was removed
). Just please keep it off the main discussion thread.
For the record, I am not an SNP supporter. I have no idea what party allegiances, if any, the other mods have. I only know that I am the sole Celtic fan 🙂
We are also appreciative of the support we get in these situations. Thanks guys/gals.
ordinaryfan says:
Tuesday, October 16, 2012 at 09:57
I’d imagine there would need to be a vote of no confidence, not only of CO but of the whole SFA board and for someone else to come in and show true tranceparrency. Not going to happen.
Now, if there were someone reading this in the position, or knew someone in a position to blow some whistles….?
It would only take one document….
TSFM…..
at some point, would you be willing to release the alias’ of the multiple posters?
No personal info obviously. I’d love to match up the names though….
I’ve got 9 TU 🙂
Don’t think I’ve ever had 10….come on….one more, please 🙂 🙂 🙂
(Cue the TD, lol)
TSFM
Is it reasonable to ask who your co-moderators are?
RM …Posted Yesterday, 09:21 PM
“According to Capita 7500 fans have now registered and indicatively pledged £15m”
——
Think he must have meant 75000.
I believe Fr. Dougal Maguire just registered for £10K, and was given number 92097.
YAAAAAASSSSSSS 🙂
TSFM
You do a difficult job very well. Thank you.
Re politicians a wise old man once told me that the only person to ever enter parlament with honest intentions was Guy Fawkes.
Some points to consider;
That which is unsustainable by it’s very nature cannot & will not be sustainable or sustained, at some point a correction will take place.
You cannot kick the can down the road & dodge responsibilities forever, at some point you have to take a reality check or else have one forced upon you.
During this sage Sir David Murray, Craig Whyte, Stewart Regan & Neil Doncaster have all discovered this to their cost and indeed the full ramifications of their decisions and actions are still not known yet.
Others like Campbell Ogilvie & Charles Green and/or The Rangers fans will also yet learn these lessons.
Repeating past actions will yield nothing but past results, trying to preserve business as usual and create an artificial level of stability will only see an increase in the accumulation of hidden risks that will erupt at some point later with greater volatility or instability the result.
Somebody wrote in that marvellous essay article posted at the weekend “We’ve lurched further into darkness” sadly that is true and indeed this episode typifies the dark age that Scottish football has been engulfed in this last quarter century of decline across all levels, club & international as the game has systematically consumed itself.
But there are also some encouraging green shoots, the fans revolt in the summer that forced a hitherto inconceivable although just result of insisting The Rangers begin again at the bottom. Websites like RTC & TSFM that educate, analyse & dissect our game. The apparent rise in SPL & SFL crowds despite predictions of Armageddon in Rangers absence. the number of young Scottish players now getting opportunities at SPL level, these will all have positive long term effects.
But until the people running Rangers Football Club and Scottish Football realise the folly of trying to perpetuate and sustain a highly unstable and unsustainable ‘business as usual’ and instead properly learn the lessons of Rangers massive failure and the collateral damage caused both in the failure and it’s causes and it’s handling then they will never make any substantive progress or be able to prevent similar recurring failures.
bawsbustedanatha says:
Tuesday, October 16, 2012 at 10:33
0 0 Rate This
YAAAAAASSSSSSS
===============================
Care to enlighten us? 🙂
Long Time Lurker says:
Tuesday, October 16, 2012 at 08:50
13 0 Rate This
famoussong on Monday, October 15, 2012 at 19:51
Key questions: did the SFA provide a licence believing that TRFC had enough cash to meet their playing obligations? Why did they opt not to ask the Club to put up a bond before a licence was granted?
Maybe a friendly journalist could ask, or a radio pundet could discuss as part of their lunchtime show on Saturday?
————————————————————————————————————————-
Their history exists like windmills in their minds. It is only an illusion.
Administration followed by liquidation is reality.
A conditional licence again is an illusion similar to a tooth fairy. The tooth fairy comforts the child for a short period of time but then comes REALITY.
Maybe as you say some REAL journalist will some day question the licence and its financial conditions.
Maybe aye maybe naw.
News for rangers
Rangers star David Templeton fuming after being knocked back from city nightclub for wearing earrings
Scottish Daily Record – 2 hours ago
———————————————————————————————————————–
Reassuring, is it not, that when you google the name of the old club, the above entry arises.It is good to see that the Record’s finest reporters are keeping us abreast of the latest developments at Ibrox!
Scotland, a small country with probably the biggest and best news reporting in the world !!!!
FTTT result is now required to spare us from this stream of drivel
bawsbustedanatha says:
Tuesday, October 16, 2012 at 10:16(Edit)
TSFM…..
at some point, would you be willing to release the alias’ of the multiple posters?
No personal info obviously. I’d love to match up the names though….
___________________________________________________________________
What happpened to all those forensic skills I was talking about? 🙂
There are lots of dual aliases going around, and they usually attract suspicion because of the proximity of their posts. I wouldn’t want to accuse anyone outright, but Observer and abodyswullie, both in indignant, accusatory mode, were the same
Neepheid Tuesday, October 16, 2012 at 10:02
Thanks for that analysis. Maybe I’m a cynic, but I still believe there could be one or two institutional risk-takers.
That’s a good point about £20 mil being siphoned from the economy, if the share issue goes ahead and succeeds. Not only the W of Scotland economy will take the hit though.
It’ll be interesting to see who brings about the next delay in the BDO entry to the fray.
Charlie Brown says:
Tuesday, October 16, 2012 at 10:43(Edit)
bawsbustedanatha says:
Tuesday, October 16, 2012 at 10:33
0 0 Rate This
YAAAAAASSSSSSS
===============================
Care to enlighten us?
___________________________________________
He’s not a 10 TUs virgin any longer 😉
neepheid says:
Tuesday, October 16, 2012 at 10:02
I haven’t seen it mentioned elsewhere, but if this goes ahead before Christmas, the effect on the West of Scotland economy will be dire. £20million hoovered up by Green, that’s £20million less for the bears to spend on toys and turkeys. Who would be a toyshop owner in Govan this Christmas?
————————————————
But the bears will be buying a turkey!
Charlie Brown says:
Tuesday, October 16, 2012 at 10:43
Don’t get excited Charlie…..I got 10 TU for the first time:)
Just checked…..20!
I don’t get out much….
TSFM says:
Tuesday, October 16, 2012 at 10:53
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bawsbustedanatha says:
No forensics here. Had a stab once or twice in the old days. Started well enough, got too excited, 2+2=5 then got lost.
Decided to leave it to the more patient and knowledgeable.
BTW, I’ve got my own accountant now and I can have quite a conversation with him now. Couldn’t have done that two years ago!
He keeps up with all this too.
Thanks RTC and keep up the hard work TSFM. Everyone else too.
I’m off to celebrate 🙂
The problem for the Rangers IPO as I see it is even forgiving Green for his hyperbolic and exaggerated claims if we accept for a moment his underlying premise that he believes he can turn Rangers into a financially strong football club generating millions in additional revenue streams and accumulating each year the facts are that neither Green himself or any of his management team have any strong track record of achievement in any field nevermind building a world class sporting company or brand. It’s a bit like they dusted down Craig Whyte & Misha’s prospectus for world domination by Rangers? They have only slightly more credibility or achievement in their track record but only just – they too have a string of apparent failures behind them.
If it was Jim McColl & Walter Smith fronting this bid then you might just about believe it and think these are serious individuals with respective track records of achievement in business & football. But Green & his cronies? Nah sorry!
willmacufree says:
Tuesday, October 16, 2012 at 09:13
Can I repeat a question I asked previously, to a response of absolutely nothing? Maybe it’s a daft question, I don’t know, it’s this: aside from fans’ money, could C. Green have a number, a few would do, of fund managers lined up for “institutional” purchase of the upcoming issue? A percentage point or two of a substantial fund would make Mr Green content.
Given the general expert opinion of the proposed shares, an institutional purchase of this nature would simply transfer cash from existing pensioners’ funds to Mr C. Green’s pension fund. Should we be looking at who these complaisant fund managers might be?
Apologies if already dealt with, or a daft proposition.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Not a daft proposition at all
Heres a view from another angle
Question
What does a Spiv do when faced with an impossible IPO to sell to Fund Mgrs ?
Answer
1 He rounds up as many Spiv Fund Mgrs as he needs to persuade any wavering Suckers to spend real money on this folly. Watch out for Spiv Fund Mgrs buying unspecified numbers of shares and then have a look at their track record elsewhere
Spiv outfit Merchant House Group and their associate investment cos may already be waiting in the wings
2 He also dreams up a black market in the shares between the Spiv Fund Mgrs before the shares can be bought on the open market.
The reality is that its all a con and the “Fund” investing in the IPO are getting a fee for doing so plus their money back for helping out in yet another legal scam
Surprise Surprise,
Rumours from the black market indicate strong demand from “reputable” perhaps unnamed Fund Mgrs and unattributed quotes that the shares will be oversubscribed
Meaning any shares bought by the average punter look set to rise in price as soon as they go on the AIM Stock Exchange
3 So its Hurry Hurry Hurry
Get in quick and buy shares
Not only will you help your “Club” ( which has morphed into a “company” for the duration of the IPO)
But you will make money yourself
And to any fans thinking Green is only in this for a quick buck
Well he might slip that he wont be selling any shares for at least a year (which is a legal requirement anyway)
4 One big assist for Green would be a public statement from Waldo that he was fully supportive of the fundraising ans had already made application for a sizeable chunk of shares
However Waldo is unlikely to pass any comment until he knows whether Hector is about to claim him for back taxes
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
The above may be total speculation
We shall see
angus1983 says:
Tuesday, October 16, 2012 at 10:32
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RM …Posted Yesterday, 09:21 PM
“According to Capita 7500 fans have now registered and indicatively pledged £15m”
——
Think he must have meant 75000.
I believe Fr. Dougal Maguire just registered for £10K, and was given number 92097.
==============================================
It’s a very confusing number actually.
It it really was 75,000 as you suggest then that would only be £200 / head (on average). Given that we are told the minimum investment is £500 that doesn’t really work.
7,500 at £2,000 makes more sense. But it makes a nonsense of the figures being reported for the number of people expressing an interest.
Presumably they have been doing some sort of filtering to come up with the 7,500.
oh dear………………..
“If the SPL investigation does remove titles from Rangers’ history, then I don’t think it too much of an exaggeration to believe the fans will see no way back. Fines and transfer bans can be forgotten about, but removing titles is different.
The former relate to the club and are obstacles that can be overcome, but the latter is an attempt to remove memories. Memories of enjoying moments with your family and friends. Memories of hard-working and honest players or management, winning fair and square on the pitch.
To remove those on the basis of an administrative error to a tax scheme, which was legal at the time and was never hidden, is something few fans would ever forget. ”
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/blog/_/name/rangers/id/1103?cc=5739
willmacufree says:
Tuesday, October 16, 2012 at 11:02
It’ll be interesting to see who brings about the next delay in the BDO entry to the fray.
=======================
Just Lord Hodge as always. It is now 4 months since the CVA was rejected, and no one can tell me why the liquidation should still be on hold. He has had the administrators’ report on a potential conflict of interest,which he demanded on a 3 week timescale, for over 3 months now. That report will obviously say that they weren’t conflicted. It was never going to say anything else, so why bother asking for it in the first place? The only way Lord Hodge could ever have hoped to establish a conflict of interest was by evidence from third parties. So I conclude that the request for a report was simply to buy time.
Having a suspicious turn of mind, I never thought that this was anything other than a delaying tactic, initially to allow the transfer of SFA membership, and subsequently to keep BDO away from the nasty little secrets that would cause embarrassment to certain “high heid yins”. I will believe differently when someone can point me to a single precedent for Lord Hodge’s actions in the long and inglorious history of Scottish insolvencies, or when Lord Hodge actually makes some effective finding regarding the conduct of the administration.
All this delay has achieved is to serve the interests of RFC. I don’t believe the SFA membership could have been transferred if RFC had been in liquidation at the time. Without that transfer, Sevco would have had to apply as new members, and simply did not meet the requirements for admission. So I believe that without Lord Hodge’s intervention, there would be no Rangers in the senior game this season.
That’s my take on it, others will disagree. I think it stinks.
Tommy says:
Tuesday, October 16, 2012 at 11:02
neepheid says:
Tuesday, October 16, 2012 at 10:02
I haven’t seen it mentioned elsewhere, but if this goes ahead before Christmas, the effect on the West of Scotland economy will be dire. £20million hoovered up by Green, that’s £20million less for the bears to spend on toys and turkeys. Who would be a toyshop owner in Govan this Christmas?
————————————————
But the bears will be buying a turkey!
………………………………………………………………………………………………………..
As they get well and truly STUFFED while trying to keep ABREAST with things as Green GOBBLES up their money and LEGS it on the GRAVY train, leaving the 500million running about like headless CHICKENS as another hero SPROUTS up on a WING and a prayer to save the day to the distant sound of DRUMSTICKS playing simply the BREAST, while the bears are left with EGG on their faces after SHELLING out again and having their FEATHERS ruffled.
(Sorry I was bored!)
Given Observer’s self obsession, his inability to take even the slightest criticism, etc.. etc… I was about to suggest that maybe he might be bi-polar or obsessive compulsive. I’m delighted to hear that it is merely multiple personality disorder.
“I HOPE” he gets help.
It sounds a bit like the tabloid hyperbole – one says, ‘100 killed’ so another for no good reason headlines double that number. I am referring to the shares issue. It strikes me as odd that something approaching 100,000 enquiries have been dealt with and documents sent out in such a short space of time.
On another matter, given DTS and others attacks on Observer, I have to say, to be fair, that I have always found his posts interesting, informative and clear. I have not always agreed with him but the sort of bully boy tactics he has had to endure are disappointing.
http://www.thelawyer.com/1014897.article
Doesn’t look like the actions of someone champing at the bit to clear their name does it?
What exactly did GW do? Let’s see now. One example; according to the BBC was he wrote a proof of funds letter dated October 21 2010 saying that Liberty Capital Limited had available to it up to 33m from a UK FSA Asset Management Company for the purchase of RFC but that said funder wished to remain anonymous. OK
So on the basis of that and possibly further letters the acquisition deal negotiations carried on for a further seven months. Everybody involved was tickety-boo happy.
That was about it really. Someone’s were allegedly happy to buy a club with money they didn`t have. So they all spent seven months being very happy until the take-over. They then spent another nine months being very happy until February 13 2012. Then they all became very unhappy. So unhappy that vast sums [of creditors money] have been expended on claims against one party.
Just asking – but why only creditors money and why only one party?
I wanted to buy Edinburgh Castle. I had no money but I did have a letter citing an anonymous lender. The National Trust pestered me for seven months to accept. I relented to pressure and bought the Castle. My advisors sold me ambitious plans to restructure it and turn it into a Casino to rival anything that Monte Carlo could do. After nine months they discover I have no money. Everyone is terribly upset. My creditors decide to sue the letter writer for the value of the un-built Casino. Well they wanted to but the big bad wolf managed to put it off again, this time for a year, and it would be so expensive in legal costs that they`ll probably give up. About it really – no need for any further fuss.
Everyone else was duped – wisnae there – wisnae me – don`t look under the carpet.
Only in Scotland……..
My next project is a football club. 😉
‘100,000 enquiries have been dealt with and documents sent out in such a short space of time’
_____________________
I’m worried, I have not received any documents yet.
In for five thousand pounds.
Frank Enernest.
Green Acres,
Ille De Silly,
Uk.
Email address: Fiasco@hotmail.com
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’100,000 enquiries have been dealt with and documents sent out in such a short space of time’
_____________________
I’m worried, I have not received any documents yet.
In for five thousand pounds.
Frank Enernest.
Green Acres,
Ille De Silly,
Uk.
Email address: Fiasco@hotmail.com
………………………………………………………………………..
I have applied with legitimate ñame(s) and email address(s) and also not had my prospectus(s) This may make me reconsider my 3 x 10.000 pledeges!
7500 must have registered for 2000 quid each for 15m “pledged” that should put a shine on things… joking aside though that’s a remarkably high level for retail investors, many of which will have taken a bath previously, to commit to – 4x the minmum stake?
Colour me impressed (hahahahahahahah – i’m kidding, if they see 30% of that I’ll be surprised.
)
Exfallhoose2012
I too found Observer’s posts interesting – at first.
They then became utterly repetitive, self indulgent and insulting to other bloggers. It was gently – and not so gently – pointed out to him and he was invited to tone it down a bit. His response was to plead that he suffered from “thin skin” and for bloggers to go easy on him. Yet he continued to post quite aggressive insults to others on here.
How many times did he state that, that was the end of the matter, only to return five minutes later and bring the very same subject up again?
To then be found to have been posting under two nom-de-blogs is pretty low. I think criticism of him is entirely justified – regardless of how ‘interesting’ his post may have been.
(I also enjoy posting on the night shift. There are a few of us who are late nighters. Over the last few nights, he chased people away.)
doontheslope says:
Tuesday, October 16, 2012 at 13:31
Doon
Right on. At best an obsessive, at worst a deep lying old golder.
Rangers: A Warning From History
From 200% –
http://www.twohundredpercent.net/?p=20748
Charlie Brown says:
Tuesday, October 16, 2012 at 12:03
“To remove those on the basis of an administrative error to a tax scheme, which was legal at the time and was never hidden, is something few fans would ever forget. ”
This quote sums up the real damage that elements of the MSM have brought about through their failure to accuratly report on and commenting on events in connection to RFC and the management of the EBT scheme.
While the FTTT decision has not been published, and the dual contracts investigation has not yet fully commenced, there is evidence in the public domain to refute the central arguement that EBTs were legal and their use at RFC declared. Only time will tell if RFC have committed an administrative error or otherwise, when Lord Smith et al publish their findings.
Long Time Lurker says:
Tuesday, October 16, 2012 at 13:56
Charlie Brown says:
Tuesday, October 16, 2012 at 12:03
————————————————————-
@STVGrant is getting a pounding for recomending this as an STV Must Read!
Rightly so IMHO
chris shields (@chrisshields10) says:
Tuesday, October 16, 2012 at 14:11
I got a lot of thumbs down for posting it – hope people don’t think it was my opinions? 🙂
Neepheid @12.05
Completely agree your viewpoint re Lord Hodge’s preposterous delays.
Coupled with the original legal decision to allow Duff n Phelp’s app’t in February ( Lord Carloway ? ).
How do you initiate a judicial review of the judiciary ?
First of all I’m sorry for going back to Friday night’s match but I watched it on holiday in Liverpool and have only returned.
I wrote after Scotland’s last game that our football belongs to an era of thirty years ago. After watching Friday’s game my opinion has not altered. Our national team’s inability to adapt is frightening to watch.
We finally get Steven Fletcher back into the fold and all we do is hump long balls up the park to him (it was like watching Joe Jordan all over again). The fact that he managed to control most of them is a huge credit to the player but he did not have much support around him. Remember this was a Welsh team that was without at least three first team players.
Our players seem stuck in a rigid formation that strangles the life out of them but does not negate the opposition.
Thirty years ago pitches were not great so the long ball was a definite tactic but that is not the case nowadays. Players are fitter, movement better, and footballing knowledge of the average player extensive. As soon as the ball leaves the ground it becomes a lottery and your chances of winning reduce accordingly. That’s why out of the amount of flick on’s that Fletcher won we only scored one goal.
You watch the SFA and it is almost like watching a board of under fire directors at a domestic football club. We all know that the SFA is the root of our national games woes but we can only shout at them for so long before fans turn their anger to the coach. The SFA then turn round and sack the coach thus buying themselves more time. I watched this same scenario unfold at Parkhead in the late eighties and early nineties.
I understand that the entire SFA cannot be swept aside in one fell swoop as that would cause significant issues internationally but at what point does someone, somewhere within this organisation say ‘this is not working’ and start to address the real issues at the heart of our sport.
I wish Scotland to succeed as much as the next fan but I can no longer see where we, as a nation, are going to improve. I really hope it is tonight against Belgium but I fear the worst. Belgium are a young vibrant team riding high on confidence and who seem to be going places. Scotland on the other hand are a team sliding towards the abyss with another managerial CV about to be scarred by the letters SFA followed by the reason for leaving marked as ‘Sacked’ beside it.
As I asked above at what point is enough enough and a full root and branch upheaval of our national association to be addressed?
Don’t hold your breath because I know I won’t.
SouthernExile says:
Tuesday, October 16, 2012 at 10:32
Is it reasonable to ask who your co-moderators are?
===================
Lawell, Harper and McLeod 🙂
Folks, could I make it clear that wjohnston1 was not the subject of my post earlier today concerning the behaviour of individuals. wjohnston1 accepted, although reserved the right to disagree with, the deletion of his post.
wjohnston1 is a valued contributor, and has behaved with integrity. I hope I have not unintentionally damaged his reputation with my non-specific comments earlier.
SouthernExile says:
Tuesday, October 16, 2012 at 10:32
Is it reasonable to ask who your co-moderators are?
_____________________________________________________________
Perfectly reasonable, but not appropriate for me to say. If they feel like “coming out” then they probably will.
Justshatered
I don’t know if you watched the debate ‘The future of Scottish football’, broadcast earlier in the year. The programme actually had James Traynor on as one of the experts!! We were also treated to views from other studio guests, including those in charge of Scottish football.
It made for depressing viewing.
The film footage used consisted of – almost exclusively – former, foreign Rangers players, most of whom were EBTers. The whole thing was Rangers based/biased from start to finish.
I was left with the very powerful belief that what is wrong with Scottish football was not on the pitch, but was actually sitting on the couch that night – all of them.
The frustration at these idiots was further compounded when ITV4 showed a documentary on Lionel Messi, later that night. We were reminded of how the beautiful game should be played and perfected.
And what is going to happen when Craig Levein resigns in the morning? These same clueless people will appoint yet another of ‘their’ men – after a “suitable time of reflection”, but before they are exposed as the charlatans we all know they are – and consign the national team to another 4 years of painful mediocrity.
I cannot take any interest in the Scottish team until Ogilvie, Regan, Doncaster, Ballantyne and the Bay City Roller are booted out of Scottish football.
neepheid says:
Tuesday, October 16, 2012 at 10:02
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willmacufree says:
Tuesday, October 16, 2012 at 09:13
neepheid,
Much as I wish what you say to be true, I have personal experience of witnessing one of those red braces brigade spiv type investment fund managers boosting the issue of an investment fund launch, that was in danger of not reaching it’s target, phoning round other red braces brigade spiv type investment fund managers to beg them to invest, becoming more desperate as the closing hour approached. Sadly, they all did invest what was, in fact, other people’s money (despite the fact they’d all read the prospectus and, in at least some cases, not seen fit to invest beforehand), in what, for most, proved to be a loss making investment. In this case, it was a ‘respected’ firm of fund managers launching the fund, and offering a ‘you scratch my back, and I’ll scratch your’s’ kind of deal, so maybe Charlie won’t have that kind of help; but, there again, we hear so many bad things regarding dodgey pension fund managers etc, that I wouldn’t be surprised if he had a few spiv friends to call on if he felt it necessary.
I’m glad to say it’s many a year since I last encountered such spivs after early retirement and career change, and perhaps the (alleged) tightening of regulations of recent years has made it less likely: but somehow, the Greens, the Whytes, the Murrays, still seem to prosper.
doontheslope says:
Tuesday, October 16, 2012 at 15:20
I could not agree more with you.
I was only voicing the question at what point, if any, do these people realise that they are part of he problem instead of the solution?
If they have nothing to offer except more of the same then they should be held up as the parasites of our sport that they are.
Traynor, we know, will never regard himself as anything other than the ‘voice of football’.
What has dawned on the likes of Cosgrove and is now only beginning to dawn on the likes of Traynor, Young and all is that they are yesterdays men. Cosgrove and Spence do not have the West of Scotland nonsense, having to appease the biggest demographic, they are only interested in telling it as they see it and backing it up with reasoned discussion.
Traynor and Young spout nonsense and then shout down anyone that questions what they say.
That isn’t debate. It is the fat school bully let loose on our airwaves and considering that we pay for it we have a right to complain about inaccuacies and shoddy reporting.
Charles Green has made some outlandish statements over the last few weeks prior to drumming up emotional and financial support for the imminent share issue. One statement that I am sure caught everyone’s attention is the 500m market to watch Rangers.
How does a business man come out with such statements? I would be surprised if he had picked these figures out of the air without any back up.
CG: So how do we get people to invest in this club? I need to get my £3m commission.
MM: No problem getting money out of the current loyal support as you have them lapping up every word you say.
CG: I know, did you like the comments about our enemies, bogotry, hatred, orenge tops, bad SFA, bad SPL?
MM: Yes, and I am glad we have Jack Irvine and Chris Graham on our side to tell us what to say. How do we get the institutional investors on board?
CG: What’s our potential market?
MM: 1m
CG: oh Malcolm, you got to do better than that.
MM: 2m
CG: Malcolm, Malcolm, Malcolm. 600-800m Malcolm
MM: 600-800m, how did you..
CG: Jack and Chris told me to google Christian denominations by numbers. You see we are Rangers and we are defenders of our faith. We are the people.
MM: Yes Charles, but we are a football club not a religious organisation.
CG: Minor detail.
MM: I have included 700m as the potential market.
CG: No, put 500m. We want to show our potential investors that we exercised prudence in our estimate.
Oh well, thats my best guess on how this figure was arrived at.
doontheslope says:
Tuesday, October 16, 2012 at 15:20
‘ I cannot take any interest in the Scottish team until Ogilvie, Regan, Doncaster, Ballantyne and the Bay City Roller are booted out of Scottish football…’
———-
I can understand the feeling.
But I prefer to hope that the next AGM ( if not an EGM before then) will see a clear-out of the elected members of the SFA board.
Regan and Doncaster? In so far as they are merely servants of the Board, it may be that anything and everything they have done in relation to the saga,has been done under orders.
With the election of a new board, uncontaminated by use of the revolving door and the hugely disproportionate skewing of Scottish football in a westerly direction, the opportunity for really unblinkered and fearless thinking will arise.
The experiences of this past year are something that most club chairmen/ owners see as resulting from the extraordinary close relationship that existed ( and still, via CO, persists) between RFC as was/ Sevco rangers as is.
Sever that relationship, and other voices and counsels will be heard .
Talking of “The Producers,” and various related scams:
A stockbroker was arrested on Monday for defrauding the producers of the upcoming Broadway show Rebecca: The Musical by allegedly concocting an elaborate scheme that federal agents called “stranger than fiction.” The stockbroker, Mark Hotton of West Islip, N.Y., allegedly collected $60,000 for the musical but never actually gave any of it to the show, resulting in a production shutdown on Sept. 30. Hotton is charged with faking loans and coming up with phantom investors—including a phony investor that he killed off in August after he could not come up with $2 million he said the investor would give the show. Hotton reportedly stashed the money from his alleged schemes in the Cayman Islands. He is being held without bail.
Charlie Brown says:
Tuesday, October 16, 2012 at 12:03
“Memories of enjoying moments with your family and friends. Memories of hard-working and honest players or management, winning fair and square on the pitch.
To remove those on the basis of an administrative error to a tax scheme, which was legal at the time and was never hidden, is something few fans would ever forget. ”
——————
Add those two sets of memories together and I think it’s fair to say that the Sevconians will be needing to purchase some extra RAM for their cortical hard-drives!
allyjambo says:
Tuesday, October 16, 2012 at 15:39
===================
I can’t argue with that- I too have seen the “red braces” working hard for each other, and against the interests of the real investors, mainly pensioners, whose interests they are supposed to represent, and who actually pay their huge salaries at the end of the day. The City is a deeply corrupt environment, in my experience.
However here, just for once, the fans of Scottish football can actually make a difference. If you have any of your hard earned money invested in any sort of fund, you have the right to find out whether your money is being thrown at Charles Green & Co. If you find out that the person charged with managing YOUR money is indulging his own little preferences at YOUR expense, then please, kick up a fuss.
The City spivs make a huge amount of money simply based on the passivity of most investors. Lots of them are paid on a percentage of funds managed, regardless of performance. It is a huge scandal, and clearly not for this forum. But in this specific case ( and relevant to this forum,I believe, TSFM! ) I suggest that you keep a close eye on what is being done with your money. Unless you are happy to contribute to Charlie’s pension scheme at the expense of your own, that is.
test.
bawsbustedanatha says:
Tuesday, October 16, 2012 at 10:16
TSFM…..
Would you be willing to release the alias’ of the multiple posters?
No personal info obviously. I’d love to match up the names though….
………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..
We demand to know…who are/were these peoples… (c) Sally 🙂
Well..Do we want them exposed…give a TU
Nah..no really interested tbhonest..give a TD
neepheid says:
Tuesday, October 16, 2012 at 12:05
‘ So I believe that without Lord Hodge’s intervention, there would be no Rangers in the senior game this season.
That’s my take on it, others will disagree. I think it stinks.’
——
I’ve heard of ‘murmuring the judges’, neepheid, but your observation is a great big bloody shout! 🙂
For all I know, you may be right: Lord Hodge might have been every bit as determined to favour RFC(IA) as any of the others. He might have latched on to the BBC documentary as a great excuse to call for a report from D&P, cleverly arranging to delay ending Administration until the new club was illicitly admitted into the SFA.
I think that that is highly unlikely. Even if it had been the case, once the new club were admitted into the SFA, there would be no further need to keep Administration going.
It’s much more likely that LH has indeed got some reservations about the Administrators, and has instituted further enquiries and investigations.
If he’s going to ‘do’ the Administrators for misfeasance ( yes, it’s a new word to me as well-I always thought it was ‘malfeasance’) he will need to be very sure of his ground.
And a man who served as Procurator to the General Assembly of the Church of Scotland is not likely to be personally corrupt.
As for precedents , I doubt if there has ever been an Administration quite like this one, either before LH or any other judge!
I thought the FTTT decision was to be published early october??? We are now midway though October and still nothing. Why is this taking so long? It really is difficult for me to not believe that events have taken place to aid the newco and as alluded too everything is being timed/postponed/dragged out for one reason and one reason only…..to benefit the newco.
This is actually quite funny! Something we’ve not seen much of from yer average TRFC fan! ;
Rangers Tax case meeting.
http://m.soundcloud.com/blues_and_twos/rtc-blog-meeting
Celtic ladies 🙂
Kicked out the SFA’s cup by the SFA because we couldn’t field a team to play as 11 of our players were representing the SFA at International level.
hell! lol
The ladies should withdraw from the Scottish National Team because of this. And I am a supporter of our national team but that is ridiculous.
http://m.stv.tv/sport/football/clubs…ational-calls/
__________________
“Nations are nations if they feel themselves to be a nation. And Scotland overwhelmingly feels itself to be a nation,”
Allyjambo
6 Hearts players not been paid again today. Your thoughts?
doontheslope says:
Tuesday, October 16, 2012 at 17:57
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Allyjambo
6 Hearts players not been paid again today. Your thoughts
===============================================
Mad Vlad’s political party came 18th (out of 18) in Romania’s national elections at the weekend, with a massive 0.26% of the vote.
Probably felt that Hearts wages were the least of his problems at present.