Naming the Rose

We spend an inordinate amount of time on this blog arguing about what the re-emergent Rangers should be called. It is a rather circular debate with no way of finding any consensus. The dispute between Rangers (“The Rangerists”) or The Rangers or Sevco (“The Sevconians”) and its claim to be the club that was formed in the 19th century is spurious. Whichever way you look at it, the continuity of the “brand” is undeniable and as long those who wish to keep buying that package are satisfied that the wrapping is authentic – where’s the harm?

The red herring in the argument is that “history” is important. To the average football fan, it is nothing of the kind. As a Celtic fan myself, and a bit of a student of the history of the club, I am constantly dismayed by the Thousand Yard Stare I get from your average Celtic fan who is confronted with the names of people who contributed significantly to the club’s identity. Key figures like Sandy McMahon, Jimmy Delaney, Jimmy McGrory and (God help us) John Thomson rarely elicit recognition.

Modern football fans who live in the instant gratification society of the the WWW and mobile communications may pay lip service to their clubs’ history, but that’s not what gives the modern football fan wears as his badge of honour. That is a commodity often erroneously confused with history – the bragging rights associated with the trophy haul.

The ability to claim that “we have more titles than you” is far more valuable to a supporter than which 19th century attacking centre-back won the Scottish Cup with a last minute header; and the value of said cup wins is heavily weighted in favour of the most recent (save for the honourable exception of the European successes).

The maintenance of that illusion of superiority is crucial if Rangers fans are to believe that their club is still Rangers. Perhaps in time they may even come to fully believe it themselves, but the cataract of column inches devoted to propagating that myth, both from the MSM and from information outlets controlled by Charles Green’s organisation, betrays a lack of total belief by the chief Bear-existentialists. Protesting too much may not be subtle, but that never put off your average fitba’ man either.

The upshot though is this. There is a belief – or at least a hope – amongst Rangerists that the continuity argument holds. They will call the new club Rangers. Fans of other clubs who make up the vast majority of the Sevconian tendency, believe nothing of the kind. They will call it something else.

Many will remind Rangerists that the old club died, and this is factually correct (or at least will be very soon). Rangerists will counter that the Rangers ethos lives on at Ibrox, and despite the worrying overtones (for some) contained in that statement, that is also factually correct.

Rangerists will also point out, as Rangers fans on this blog already have, that the SPL bent over backwards to assist the continuity of the club in order to minimise the financial consequences for Scottish football, and that the SFL too, have agreed that they are the same club.

Why? Simply because Scottish Football thinks it needs to help perpetrate they illusion of continuity to avoid the loss of thousands of paying customers to the game altogether.

So round one has gone to the Rangerists, with the Sevconians pretty much taking an eight-count.

So is the name thing important? I don’t think it is of critical importance. The name in itself doesn’t matter, but to merely agree that everything is as before is to join forces with the MSM, SFA & SPL who have sought to give RFC and their tax theft a pass.

Whatever happens in the future though, the illusion hasn’t worked completely. The Sevconians’ wish to call the new club by a different name was for the purpose of making it synonymous with tax evasion, however the name Rangers now evokes exactly that response. There is now a discernible pause when people mention Rangers. A pause that reflects on the dis-service they did to the country, and to the game of football in Scotland.

Which brings us to the really important point. Throughout this saga rules have been bent. Conflicted individuals, alleged to have been involved in the tax and registration scam and its subsequent cover-up, have remained in positions of authority and power, despite being under a cloud throughout. The media have been complicit, except in rare cases, in allowing the wrong-doing to go unquestioned, actively campaigning for rules not to be applied.

What we have been saying all along is this. Please play the game by the rules, and do not manufacture special cases for the financially powerful.

Call Rangers whatever you wish, but deal with their transgressions appropriately in the spirit of sporting fairness, and within the framework of the existing rules. That is the least – and most – we expect. We don’t ask for much. Just give us back some pride in our sport .

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Tom Byrne

About Trisidium

Trisidium is a Dunblane businessman with a keen interest in Scottish Football. He is a Celtic fan, although the demands of modern-day parenting have seen him less at games and more as a taxi service for his kids.

2,065 thoughts on “Naming the Rose


  1. Re post at 18.11

    Romania should read Lithuania.
    Apologies.


  2. donsfan says:
    Tuesday, October 16, 2012 at 16:55

    =======================

    The Tribunal will report when it reports, people talking about it and making predictions are simply guessing and have been for months.

    One day someone will get it right out of simple dumb luck.

    This is always how it has been and nothing has changed that, no matter what anyone thinks.


  3. Neepheid, Gooseygoosey (twice the man he once was), and Allyjambo today, terrific posts in answer to a major concern for a lot of people.

    The conclusion seems to be that people are sailing and will sail as close to the wind as possible in the pursuit of millions of other people’s money. Any pensioners and other investors who do not want their money used to purchase apparently worthless paper need to keep a watchful eye on fund managers and their actions, and/or get trusted experts to do it for them. Everybody must have the choice.

    It’s too bad if people who have worked to give themselves some kind of retirement income are in danger of having that income removed willy-nilly at least partially to fund some smart operators’ lifestyles.
    And all this done to nods and winks from the media and the powers that are supposed to be.

    May the good Lord help this wee country.


  4. john clarke says:
    Tuesday, October 16, 2012 at 16:53
    8 1 Rate This
    neepheid says:
    Tuesday, October 16, 2012 at 12:05
    ‘ So I believe that without Lord Hodge’s intervention, there would be no Rangers in the senior game this season.

    That’s my take on it, others will disagree. I think it stinks.’
    ——
    I’ve heard of ‘murmuring the judges’, neepheid, but your observation is a great big bloody shout!
    ============================================
    Well maybe it’s long past time somebody did some shouting. And it won’t be the lamb fed presstitutes of our beloved MSM who do it. Evil triumphs when good men do nothing, Edmund Burke said a long time ago. I wouldn’t call myself a good man, far from it, but I do know evil when I see it, and I’ve seen plenty in this particular saga.

    How long can Lord Hodge keep BDO away from this can of worms? As long as it takes to serve the interests of Sevco, is my conclusion, based on the available evidence. So I don’t expect a cheep from Lord Hodge until after the share flotation.

    But I may, as ever, be totally wrong. Maybe I live in the most honest, straightforward, uncorrupted wee country on the planet earth,ruled by laws impartially applied, just as I imagined it to be for much of my life. One thing this whole saga has done, if it has done nothing else, is open my eyes to the reality of public life in Bonnie Scotland today. It stinks.


  5. willmacufree says:
    Tuesday, October 16, 2012 at 18:40

    ” It’s too bad if people who have worked to give themselves some kind of retirement income are in danger of having that income removed willy-nilly at least partially to fund some smart operators’ lifestyles.
    And all this done to nods and winks from the media and the powers that are supposed to be.

    May the good Lord help this wee country.”

    ——————————————————–

    Feels really bad now that you have, rightly, personalised it…that’s me.
    Knocked my pan in teaching for nearly forty years for what? Pay more, earn less in real terms and retire when I’m nearly dead? And all to ” to fund some smart operators’ lifestyles.”
    ← Older Comments


  6. john clarke says:
    Tuesday, October 16, 2012 at 16:53

    And a man who served as Procurator to the General Assembly of the Church of Scotland is not likely to be personally corrupt.
    ———————————————————————
    Who among us is without sin? Probably you are correct and he is a straight up guy but I hardly think belonging to a religious organisation, even being high up in it, ensures honesty and purity.


  7. doontheslope says:
    Tuesday, October 16, 2012 at 17:57
    3 0 i
    Rate This

    Allyjambo

    6 Hearts players not been paid again today. Your thoughts?
    _________________________________________________

    My thoughts are unprintable, but it is a disgrace! But if the SFA choose to punish us propotionately with TRFC, then we could be in for a nice little earner 😉 However, I suspect the SFA, along with the MSM, will milk it for all it’s worth as a nice little diversion from all things Rangers.


  8. Villa’s thoughts on Green’s comments:

    Villa were surprised late last week when a Charles Green took a swipe at the club.

    Whilst admittedly bizarre and out of left field, Green did later apologise, as set out below, stating that he was aware of Villa’s pedigree from a defeat of Sheffield Utd when he had worked there.

    We are hoping that going forward Green will retreat to his day job and leave the cutting remarks for those standing on somewhat stronger footing.


  9. If people really believe that Lord Hodge, in the Court of Session, called for a report into whether or not there was a conflict of interest (which he wasn’t told about at the initial appointment) with Duff & Phelps dealing with the Rangers’ administration in order to help Rangers postpone liquidation that is a matter for them.

    I find the notion absurd. It is much more likely that he is concerned that he was lied to in the Court and that Court appointed administrators abused the system in order to assist a business to the detriment of it’s creditors. He will also have taken it personally, particularly as it was him who agreed with Duph & Phelps and HMRC that they could take the work on, so long as the administration started that day.

    I also find the notion that the FTT has procrastinated in order to assist Rangers absurd. The press have invented dates when they would issue their findings. People who understand these things have said it is nonsense, that they will take their own good time, make all the deliberations they think appropriate, and rule when they are ready.

    There is enough reality in this situation for people to consider without yet another hypothesis based on the belief that “the establishment” will do anything to help Rangers. The football establishment will and clearly does, that does not mean everyone else does.

    Some people actually couldn’t care less that it is Rangers and will treat that business the same as everyone else. Without fear or favour. They are not “a Scottish institution”, or “part of the fabric of society” they are simply a failed business which needs dealt with. The people who ran it simply people who need to be investigated to establish their part in that failure. To establish if they are guilty of malfeasance or gratuitous alienation. To potentially punish through the civil and / or criminal Courts.


  10. TSFM.
    My mistake. The comment was in a post that was lifted and attributed as coming from CQN that was posted the other night. So I took it out of context and didn’t realise it was a lift until I checked back.
    No disrespect to the poster by the way. A cracking read that I would not have seen without the re post.
    Once again I apologise for my shortsightedness.


  11. It has to be said, that all of the delays that seem to have plagued this administration, appear to be just a little bit suspicious

    Delays from one of the parties involved, could possibly be put down to just one of those things that can happen in a process, but when it appears to have happened with the FTT, the Double Ds, Hodge, and not forgetting the efforts of Stooges Inc, then suspicions are bound to be raised

    Now it may or not be coincidence, and time alone will tell, but given the evidence available, it is not surprising, that people now see all of these delays as part of a concerted effort to favour one organisation only

    Is it likely, I don’t know, but I do know it is possible


  12. Agrajag says:
    Tuesday, October 16, 2012 at 20:08

    Nicely put. Lord Hodge will be mightily embarrassed by the fact he allowed Duff and Phelps to continue as administrators, he will not want to compound that error by allowing himself to even appear to be assisting them, or RFC for that matter. I believe it more likely that, if he saw no conflict of interest, then a more speedy decision would have been made, if for no other reason, than to clear the name of Duff and Phelps. From a legal perspective that is a far weightier consideration than the demise, or survival, of any football club. Companies like Duff and Phelps form part of the legal machinery, and while Green, and everyone else involved with him and Rangers, might not rely on their unblemished reputations, D&P most definitely do, so Lord Hodge must ensure he gets it right if he doesn’t give them a completely clean bill of health.


  13. If there is truth in Phil’s blog claim about CW commenting on D&D, TU and Charlie, then LH might have a lot to say.


  14. nowoldandgrumpy says:
    Tuesday, October 16, 2012 at 19:50
    2 0 Rate This
    http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/hurricane-craigie-set-to-hit-ibrox/#more-3237

    Wow if this is true.
    ———————–

    Now that would put a rather huge cat among some unsuspecting pigeons. Mr Phil sounds pretty definite about this. Why would Whyte surface again now?

    PS Cheers torrejohnbhoy & scottyjimbo for feedback on the Withey thing. Travelling in Germany this week so have only caught up with posts today.


  15. campsiejoe says:
    Tuesday, October 16, 2012 at 20:28
    0 0 Rate This
    It has to be said, that all of the delays that seem to have plagued this administration, appear to be just a little bit suspicious

    ——–

    Spot on – here is one that stands out for me

    http://www.scotprem.com/content/default.asp?page=s2&newsid=11440

    How can the SPL make this statement, then follow up with their subsequent action ? They clearly state that OldCo are guilty… they clearly state that action will be taken… Before the start of the current season… then kick it into the long grass…. sometime in November…. you can just hear the thinking… if only the FTT finds for Oldco… thats the get out; and if they find against them…. oh well, its not us, its HMRC.

    But of course, even if the FTT goes against Oldco, I’d not be surprised that an appeal will be launched, and the SPL “inquiry” is further delayed. That would beggar belief, given that the 2 issues are essentially independent of each other. However my whole belief system has been knocked about by this farce already.

    Just hoping something decisive happens soon…. like everyone else


  16. Pat “the bookworm” Nevin’s expert analysis.

    McGregor has been diving and jumping front post, near post and back post.

    Keep up the good work Pat.


  17. 5starsorbehindbars says:
    Tuesday, October 16, 2012 at 20:44

    But of course, even if the FTT goes against Oldco, I’d not be surprised that an appeal will be launched …

    ————————————

    They cannot just launch an appeal. They have to seek leave from the FTT to appeal to the Higher Tribunal, and explain what point of law they feel has not been followed correctly. If that is refused they can appeal that refusal directly to the Higher Tribunal and seek leave from them, again they have to show what point of law has not been followed.

    If they are allowed an appeal then the Higher Tribunal will simply review the evidence. There is no further case it is simply a review process.

    Who do you imagine will pay for this. Rangers have no money and are being liquidate. MIH are unlikely to, especially if they win their part of it. It is none of Sevco’s concern and even if it was why would Charles pay a QC, he isn’t flush.

    I think an appeal against the FTT ruling is unlikely.


  18. Danish Pastry says:
    Tuesday, October 16, 2012 at 20:44

    To set the stage for Murray’s return, deus ex machina style? I get the feeling a lot of this is pure theatre.


  19. Posted on KDS one Sevco supporters explanation of why they are the same club::

    algers71
    To all the Tim’s that are unsure of Rangers FC current standing then maybe this with help put you all in your place, plus its the simplest way off explaining so you understand…ready, here goes…..once upon a time there was a man named jesus and he lived. One day jesus died, 3 days later jesus was alive again…is it the same jesus or is it newco jesus ??? Answers on postcard please……WATP


  20. If Phil is correct, it suggests one of two things
    Either the MBB was not part of the scheme and wants what he believes he is due, or Charlie has renegaded on the deal and Whyte wants a head or heads on a pole
    Time to watch this space again


  21. nowoldandgrumpy says:
    Posted on KDS one Sevco supporters explanation of why they are the same club::

    algers71
    To all the Tim’s that are unsure of Rangers FC current standing then maybe this with help put you all in your place, plus its the simplest way off explaining so you understand…ready, here goes…..once upon a time there was a man named jesus and he lived. One day jesus died, 3 days later jesus was alive again…is it the same jesus or is it newco jesus ??? Answers on postcard please……WATP
    ================================

    John 11:35


  22. nowoldandgrumpy says:
    Tuesday, October 16, 2012 at 21:01

    Posted on KDS one Sevco supporters explanation of why they are the same club::

    algers71
    To all the Tim’s that are unsure of Rangers FC current standing then maybe this with help put you all in your place, plus its the simplest way off explaining so you understand…ready, here goes…..once upon a time there was a man named jesus and he lived. One day jesus died, 3 days later jesus was alive again…is it the same jesus or is it newco jesus ??? Answers on postcard please……WATP

    =====================

    Unfortunately Jeebus was not licenced to be a messiah in the middle east, so he had to have the old Jesus’ registration transferred to him. The whole thing was unprecedented.

    To be fair he did have the same followers, but no-one else saw very much of him after that and they had to pretty much accept the word of those followers that he was still about.


  23. nowoldandgrumpy says:
    Tuesday, October 16, 2012 at 21:01

    Posted on KDS one Sevco supporters explanation of why they are the same club::

    algers71
    To all the Tim’s that are unsure of Rangers FC current standing then maybe this with help put you all in your place, plus its the simplest way off explaining so you understand…ready, here goes…..once upon a time there was a man named jesus and he lived. One day jesus died, 3 days later jesus was alive again…is it the same jesus or is it newco jesus ??? Answers on postcard please……WATP

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    It would only be the same Jesus if the CVA was accepted, surely?


  24. Agrajag says:
    Tuesday, October 16, 2012 at 20:55
    0 0 Rate This

    I think an appeal against the FTT ruling is unlikely.

    ————–

    As unlikely as recent events ? Come on, cut me some slack here. Unlikely is the new likely in this whole saga… but… I really hope that you are right !


  25. posmill says:
    Tuesday, October 16, 2012 at 20:56
    1 0
    ———————–

    So you think there was a pre-written script? It does look like it, but I can’t see how Murray can emerge from this looking very good at all. The thought struck me that Whyte may be in a bit of immediate bother and perhaps feels the need to distance himself from certain other players.

    But absolutely fascinating stuff from Phil Mac.


  26. nowoldandgrumpy says:
    Tuesday, October 16, 2012 at 21:01
    Comparing Rangers with Jesus, even to an agnostic like myself, seems more than shamefull; but then again, for a club with no sense of shame….


  27. Sorry if this seems obtuse, but what has Phil said which would qualify as “Wow, just wow”.

    How did Craig Whyte “introduce Charles Green to D & P. He used them as advisers in buying the club and he used them as administrators. They were there when Charles Green came a bidding, so he knew who he was dealing with.

    Why would Duff & Phelps not know about the Ticketus deal. Rangers were already using them for wonga loans, and Craig Whyte based his whole purchase on their money.

    Can someone tell me what bit I am missing.


  28. Could it be that the reason the FTTT is taking so long to announce their judgement is that they want to ensure that there can be no appeal? Oldco stated some time ago that, regardless of the result, they would not lodge another appeal, but should it be that criminal proceedings might arise, the panel might feel the miscreants might lodge an appeal on any spurious grounds they can to delay any investigations and trials. I’m sure they will want to ensure that any such appeal can be thrown out as quickly as possible.


  29. Agrajag says:

    Tuesday, October 16, 2012 at 21:23
    I suspect what he is getting at, is not that RFC used Ticketus to smooth out cashflow, but, that D&P were allegedly involved at all stages of Our Hero’s use of Ticketus to “fund” his takeover. Something they have strenously denied, but, there are emails floating around which appear to contradict that position.

    BTW. A few people have agreed that there was some sort of deal to split proceeds of transfers with investors in MP, but, as yet, I have not found any substantial evidence beyond heresay.


  30. Agrajag,
    If I’m not mistaken, the conflict of interest case that Lord Hodge is considering hinges on whether or not Clark, of D&P, was involved in setting up Whyte’s deal with Ticketus. Could be that Whyte is going to provide the meat on the bones of that one. As for Whyte introducing Green to D&P, I doubt it’s proper, or perhaps even legal, for someone in Whytes position to be introducing any prospective buyer of the company he’s taken into administration. Only time will tell on this one. The relevance might also depend on just when he introduced them to each other, and, of course, what their (Whyte and Green) connection was all about.


  31. allyjambo says:
    Tuesday, October 16, 2012 at 19:58
    doontheslope says:
    Tuesday, October 16, 2012 at 17:57
    6 Hearts players not been paid again today. Your thoughts?
    _________________________________________________
    My thoughts are unprintable, but it is a disgrace! But if the SFA choose to punish us propotionately with TRFC, then we could be in for a nice little earner 😉 However, I suspect the SFA, along with the MSM, will milk it for all it’s worth as a nice little diversion from all things Rangers.
    ————————————————————-

    Are SPL clubs still waiting for the SPL to release money they are due?


  32. scapaflow14 says:
    Tuesday, October 16, 2012 at 21:34

    Agrajag says:

    Tuesday, October 16, 2012 at 21:23
    I suspect what he is getting at, is not that RFC used Ticketus to smooth out cashflow, but, that D&P were allegedly involved at all stages of Our Hero’s use of Ticketus to “fund” his takeover.

    ===========================

    Of course they were, is that not what the conflict of interest argument is about. That their staff advised in the purchase, so it was inappropriate that they act as administrators as well.

    And also, there were emails twixt Craig Whyte and members of their staff with regards a quick administration, with a fixed cost, long before it happened. I think that might have been David Grier.

    Did Mr Grier not advise in the purchase of Rangers right from the start. He was part of MCR during the purchase process and MCR was bought over by D&P

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/400xY/2012/5/17710290.JPG

    Grier is the one on the left if I remember correctly, Withey is the one at the back.

    Is that not right.

    This is him at D&P

    http://www.mcr.uk.com/person.html?id=43

    Am I missing something here.


  33. algers71
    To all the Tim’s that are unsure of Rangers FC current standing then maybe this with help put you all in your place, plus its the simplest way off explaining so you understand…ready, here goes…..once upon a time there was a man named jesus and he lived. One day jesus died, 3 days later jesus was alive again…is it the same jesus or is it newco jesus ??? Answers on postcard please……WATP

    ==========================================================

    Well, i guess it all depends on whether the 1st death was officially declared to the council registrar of births, deaths and marriages or not

    maybe campbell ogilvie filed the original death cert but didn’t declare the time or cause of death and therefore his death was incorrectly registered and it was only some time later this administrative error was noticed and his death was correctly registered

    but more likely is that Jesus was also a zombie!


  34. allyjambo says:
    Tuesday, October 16, 2012 at 21:52

    =============================

    Now that makes sense to me.

    If for example Craig Whyte was to say he set up a meeting with D&P / Green at the time of, or even just before, the administration started that would be really interesting.

    I think the important point here is when things happened.

    The content of that meeting might be even more interesting.


  35. For those who know about these things,,,,,,,

    Is it a legal oddity that the final D&P Report to Creditors in August does not contain an updated list of the latest RFC Creditors. ?

    My point is this

    We now know the SSC fixed charge over MP was transferred to Sevco Scotland as a confidential term in the Sevco 5088 Purchase Agreement. But we only know this because Sevco Scotland were obliged to register the SSC fixed charge at Companies House
    So for sure SSC are no longer on the original Creditors list published at the time of the CVA proposal
    However we don`t know if the Ticketus debt and the RFCG floating charge were also transferred out of RFCG as confidential terms in the Purchase Agreement.
    For all we know these debts were re assigned from RFC to an unnamed shell co owned by Sevco 5088 which registered them at Companies House
    Having these debts would benefit the Spivs by giving them an excuse to siphon off the funds from the share issue
    Meaning
    Lumbering an unnamed Sevco 5088 subsidiary co with a massive debt as part of the Purchase Agreement provides a legal rationale to charge Sevco Scotland a massive price for the title deeds to Ibrox and MP.The terms of the title deed transfer deal could have been worded to enable Green to truthfully state that at this point in time (Aug/Sept 2012) TRFC are “debt free ”
    ……….when what he really means is that the debt has not yet been applied to TRFC


  36. monsieurbunny says:
    Tuesday, October 16, 2012 at 21:53

    I’m afraid I don’t have a clue on that one. I know Green claimed to have paid up, but have seen nothing to confirm any team receiving any payment. Doesn’t mean that payments haven’t been made, but why no trumpeting from the MSM? I suspect, if Hearts have received anything at all, then the MSM will be using that as something to hit Hearts with in tomorow’s papers!


  37. It would appear to be in character for Our Hero to take everyone down with him, if he feels that he is Friar Tucked so to speak….

    Things may be about to get very interesting


  38. Agrajag says:
    Tuesday, October 16, 2012 at 22:00
    3 0 i Rate This

    allyjambo says:
    Tuesday, October 16, 2012 at 21:52

    =============================

    Now that makes sense to me.

    If for example Craig Whyte was to say he set up a meeting with D&P / Green at the time of, or even just before, the administration started that would be really interesting.

    I think the important point here is when things happened.

    The content of that meeting might be even more interesting.
    _________________________________________________________

    As to why Whyte might be speaking out, someone over on Paul McConville’s blog made the point that the two (Green and Whyte) met in London and maybe Green is doing the dirty on Whyte and so Whyte is reciprocating. No honour amongst spivs 😉 Again, it all depends on whether or not it comes to pass, and just what exactly Whyte says!


  39. That Jesus analogy takes the biscuit.

    Not because it’s religiously offensive, but because of the bright idea of comparing RFC/TRFC with another resurrection that didn’t happen.

    (No offence meant to Christians, apologies if any taken, but them’s the facts. This isn’t the forum for discussing biblical history or theology.)


  40. allyjambo says:
    Tuesday, October 16, 2012 at 22:14

    Very true, it would also be good ammunition for the SPL to use in undermining all this I hate and will never play in the SPL nonsense


  41. Just testing to see if I have successfully registered. My old nom de plume “timalloy” was not good enough for on here so hence the “67” added.


  42. This is actually quite funny! Something we’ve not seen much of from yer average TRFC fan! ;

    Rangers Tax case meeting.

    http://m.soundcloud.com/blues_and_twos/rtc-blog-meeting

    ——————————————————————————————————————

    This is funny….they had better watch they could be ruining 140(and a half) years of reputation building!


  43. Re: Scotland national team.

    The Belgians looked like trained athletes.

    With few exceptions, our lot looked like they were more worried about where their next ten pints of lager and doner kebab were coming from.

    Is Craig Levein still manager?


  44. angus1983 says:
    Tuesday, October 16, 2012 at 22:24′

    ‘(No offence meant to Christians, apologies if any taken, but them’s the facts.

    Angus 1983, you should know better than that! You cannot blithely make an unsubstantiated assertion and then head off rebuttal by saying that this blog is not for theological discussion. Two can play at that game, (and I think I would win!:)


  45. Phil MacGiollaBhain ‏@Pmacgiollabhain

    Now everyone play nice tomorrow and pretend that the MSM have an exclusive with Craig Whyte. You didn’t read it on my site. Ok?


  46. angus1983 says:
    Tuesday, October 16, 2012 at 22:24

    That Jesus analogy takes the biscuit.

    Not because it’s religiously offensive, but because of the bright idea of comparing RFC/TRFC with another resurrection that didn’t happen.

    (No offence meant to Christians, apologies if any taken, but them’s the facts. This isn’t the forum for discussing biblical history or theology.)

    ===================================

    So presumably there’s no place for proselytizing atheism.


  47. angus1983 says:
    Tuesday, October 16, 2012 at 22:35

    Thought the same myself although I think the ‘rugby’ style strips helped make them look more athletic as opposed to our ”baggy numbers.

    The main difference was however that their players went for 90mins with pace, strength stamina and skill. Our guys just managed it in small bursts and not always deploying all four at once.

    The world is passing us by. No point is worrying about the current squad. It is the ones coming through for the next Euros that need to be coached and physically prepared in the correct manner.


  48. Rhys McCabe tweets

    -Just to clear this up for 3+ months now lawyers of mines have been coming to agreement with sevco and Wednesday for a compromise so there is

    -No hard feelings . That’s the way I want it ! But fans can think what u want don’t mean to disrespect rangers if I have in any way sorry !

    -And sevco was on the paperwork ! But if you want il say Rangers ltd or whatever … Think what you want I have no hard feelings with any Rfc

    Is there any significance that ‘sevco was on the paperwork’ , if Sevco Scotland have changed their name shouldn’t the new name be on the paperwork? Is it possible the compensation was paid to Sevco 5088?


  49. nowoldandgrumpy says:
    Tuesday, October 16, 2012 at 19:50
    http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/hurricane-craigie-set-to-hit-ibrox/#more-3237
    —————————————————————————–
    Whatever the merits of tPhil’s blog, I was interested to see the reaction of the bears to it. I therefore had a look on Follow Follow. A ‘trialist’ posted the full article (not just the link) before 10 p.m. I refreshed the thread a number of times. Strangely there were no replies to the OP and the thread disappeared within 15 minutes.

    No wonder Sir Charles will be laughing all the way to bank with this head in the sand attitude of the ordinary Rangers supporter. Why will they not learn a lesson in the wake of the Murray and Whyte disasters? They need more information and transparency from other than the mouth of their latest messiah. If Phil Mac has the inside track on the Sevco saga then it stands to reason that so must several respected bluenoses. Why can’t these guys stand up and be counted?


  50. stmiley @ 23:00

    Now whatever could young McCabe mean 🙂


  51. Just been listening to the pack on BBC Radio Scotland…Isn’t it shameful that we have such an inept bunch in Dodds, Young, McCall et all debating Levein’s future? Sure, there are decisions to be made, however the bigger question has got to be the senior management at the SFA and their ability to continue to reign over the farce they have made of our Country’s association? Can they honestly send Levein down the road given their own shortfalls?

    Young’s pitch for Smith to replace Levein was laughable. Dodds, to be fair (damn) done his best to defend Levein but was talked down and eventually caved in to the consensus. I’m not entirely sure any footballing managerial change at this stage would be worthwhile nor affordable. Neither is the risk of reappointing Smith. He was found out at Everton and as we all know any success in the SPL came with more financial doping than Mr. Armstrong could inject in the Alps…..


  52. Tommy says:
    Tuesday, October 16, 2012 at 23:06
    If Phil Mac has the inside track on the Sevco saga then it stands to reason that so must several respected bluenoses. Why can’t these guys stand up and be counted?
    ===========
    Because they don’t fancy a brick through their living room window? And that will just be for starters. The “respected bluenoses” have let their dogs off the leash, and now it’s the dogs in charge.


  53. Tommy says:
    Tuesday, October 16, 2012 at 23:06

    ===========================

    Faither,

    If you want them onside then you need control of their propaganda machine.

    That means you need control of follow follow.

    That means getting Mark Dingwall (Grandmaster Suck) onside.

    If you look at a recent Evening Times article you will see that he, and the RST he controls and speaks for are effectively endorsing the share issue. There is also talk of a “fans representative on the board” this is one of the things which they have sought for ages. Mark Dingwall is the number one candidate for that seat.

    He controls the RST and he controls follow follow. He will do what it takes to get his seat in the Blue Room.

    If it wasn’t so cringe worthy that they buy into it then it would be laughable.

    Apologies, forget that, it’s laughable.


  54. For what it is worth I think Levein has made mistakes but the reality of the situation is that we have the strongest squad we have had in ages and we are well of the pace. We can be beat by one man, Bale, and by a team who were not much better than us a few years back.
    Belgium’s population is only 11m. Their Euros records is very poor and WC record nothing to shout about.
    I heard over the weekend that they had improved because they had managed to bring in African players. However the rest of the team looked pretty good IMHO. Only a handful are playing for top EPL sides the rest are spread around various second string European clubs.
    They are doing something right.
    We must keep looking forward and learn lessons as we go.
    I believe that Levein may have the right ideas for moulding the future generations if given the chance.
    At this time I’d rather stick with him that anyone else mentioned in dispatches.


  55. Danish Pastry says:
    Tuesday, October 16, 2012 at 21:14

    So you think there was a pre-written script? It does look like it, but I can’t see how Murray can emerge from this looking very good at all. The thought struck me that Whyte may be in a bit of immediate bother and perhaps feels the need to distance himself from certain other players.

    But absolutely fascinating stuff from Phil Mac.
    =========================================
    I don’t know what to think – nothing would surprise me at this point. Assuming Phil Mac is right, it could well be CW is acting in his own interest. I don’t have inside info so this is all speculation. It’s just that CW seems like the perfect panto villain to be wheeled out as a distraction at every opportune moment. The msm was very quick to blame him alone for the the woes of rangers, and who did that take the heat away from? Now if he comes out and scuppers Charlie’s share offer thus destroying rangers again, well that would make him a regular supervillain, wouldn’t it? It would certainly make a hell of a distraction if a certain tax appeal report was about to come out blaming a certain knight of the realm. I don’t know if SDM wants rehabilitation and resumed control or simply to fade quietly into the background with liberty and knighthood intact, but next to “the man who destroyed rangers twice!” wouldn’t anyone look good? Or I could be talking mince.

    Either way – yes, amazing stuff from Phil. Pass the popcorn!


  56. Gotta love Villa statement “We are hoping that going forward Green will retreat to his day job and leave the cutting remarks for those standing on somewhat stronger footing.”

    oooft Charlie! – you have just been biatch slapped.

    Translates to me as ” Oi Chuckie – you’ve been in the game for 3 months and you just lost to the lowest team in Scottish football – talk to me about “completely useless!”


  57. allyjambo says:

    Tuesday, October 16, 2012 at 21:32

    Could it be that the reason the FTTT is taking so long to announce their judgement is that they want to ensure that there can be no appeal?
    —————————————
    The drafting of the report of the decision may also cause great difficulty and delay in reporting in view of the number of parties involved in the fraud. For reasons unknown, the most unusual decision was taken by FTT(T) to hear the appeal in private.

    “If the Tribunal publishes a report of a decision resulting from a hearing which was held wholly or partly in private, the Tribunal must, so far as practicable, ensure that the report does not disclose information which was referred to only in a part of the hearing that was held in private (including such information which enables the identification of any person whose affairs were dealt with in the part of the hearing that was held in private) if to do so would undermine the purpose of holding the hearing in private. “

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2009/273/article/32/made

    http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/artgmanual/artg8610.htm#3


  58. So Our Hero is about to fall out publicly with Green?

    Absolute rubbish

    Spivs fall out in private ………………thats how “grassing” became a private slang word
    ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
    Nope

    The one thing you never do is believe that Spivs mean what they say in public. Green is good example of this

    Believing public utterances by known Spivs is the road to ruin as many Sevco investors will soon find out

    If Whyte is about to have a public spat with Green and D&P then he has had forewarning that this is a good ploy to adopt at this point in time and has probably been signalled in advance to his fellow Spivs
    It may be linked to Gary Withey exiting the Collyer Bristow court case after successfully delaying it for 12 months
    It may be linked to advance knowledge of the FTT decision
    It may be linked to the LH review of COI by D&P
    But for sure
    The one thing it ain`t is some petulent response by Whyte to an apparent fallout with his fellow Spivs


  59. posmill says:
    Tuesday, October 16, 2012 at 23:28
    0 0 Rate This
    Danish Pastry says:
    Tuesday, October 16, 2012 at 21:14

    So you think there was a pre-written script? It does look like it, but I can’t see how Murray can emerge from this looking very good at all. The thought struck me that Whyte may be in a bit of immediate bother and perhaps feels the need to distance himself from certain other players.

    But absolutely fascinating stuff from Phil Mac.
    =========================================
    I don’t know what to think ……….. Or I could be talking mince.
    ——————–
    Mince is good if prepared well and presented articulately.


  60. Is Gio advising CW?

    @DEVILSADVOKAT: Before I close my eyes let not certain people mistake my silence on RFC for inertia or disinterest some have a big shock arriving


  61. monsieurbunny says:
    Tuesday, October 16, 2012 at 19:07
    ‘ Probably you are correct and he is a straight up guy but I hardly think belonging to a religious organisation, even being high up in it, ensures honesty and purity.’

    I think I was thinking that the Church of Scotland , in appointing its principal legal adviser, would clearly want to satisfy itself that it was not hiring a ‘dodgy’ QC, but a person who in the eyes of his legal colleagues was beyond reproach in matters of personal integrity, as well as being a damned good QC.

    And the Church of Scotland has, as a matter of fact, some of the most informed and best brains in the country .

    But you’re right.
    The fact that a guy works for a religious organisation, or the BBC, or the Police force, or the Armed Services, or the SFA, or the Press, does not in itself say anything about his personal moral integrity.


  62. I would imagine that every public utterance from Whyte will have been agreed in advance by MediaHouse, who are also advising Green, with everyone sticking to the same gameplan dreamt up almost two years ago by Minty Moonbeams.
    The biggest danger to this Spivs’ scam is the revelation that they’ve all been in it together from the start.
    Hence the pretend fights between Duff & Duffer, Collyer Bristow, Whyte, Green, Withey and the rest.
    Phil Macgiollabhain’s been sold a pup. The shameless Glasgow tabloids have been given permission by Jack Irvine to “reveal” this sham rumpus.
    Perhaps someone else has been getting too close to the truth.


  63. wottpi says: re Belgium

    heard over the weekend that they had improved because they had managed to bring in African players.
    Only a handful are playing for top EPL sides the rest are spread around various second string European clubs.
    ———-

    The quality of player and the quality of the club teams they are playing for is very impressive
    Man City ,Arsenal ,Chelseax2,Spursx2 ,Ajax, Psv ,Twente ,Porto, Zenit ,Werder, Bayern
    you could almost make 3 good CL groups from that selection
    and only 1 of the starting 11 was born outside of Belgium,2 out of the 18 squad.
    compare it with the Scotland squad – Wiganx3, Besiktas, Vancouver Whitecaps,Cardiff,Wolves, Southampton,Sunderland,Villa,Celtic,Man Utd ,WBA
    6 of our starting 11 were born outside Scotland, 8 of the squad in total .
    Most of our players are playing for 2nd string regional clubs that rarely get any experience at European level .
    We have been so busy importing talent via the cheque book rather than developing our own we have to use the grandfather clause to reinforce our squad .
    Those who fail to plan,plan to fail.
    The worst part of tonight is that I have to live and work in Belgium and tomorrow I will be getting
    it ripped right out of me


  64. So let me get this right….Duff and Phelps are now off the scene…and suddenly Craigie has an attack of honesty about their part in the scam…aye righto!

    He could have announced this since February….why now…is there something in the pipe?…did he wait till they (Duff and Daffy) had fled Dodge?…is it smoke and mirrors to deflect attention away from a bigger story to hit town (FTT)

    One thing is for sure…timing is everything…now what could possibly be about to hit the airwaves?

    It is astounding how openly corrupt this whole saga has been and continues to be…


  65. It’s the return of the GEF. My prayers have been answered!! Can it really be true?! Honour among spivs and charlatans? Haha–bunch of glorified used car salesmen having a (hopefuly very public) spat and mud flying around everywhere–will Charlie scare our hero off, like he did with Lord Cardigan and Bomber? Or will Charlie’s threats simply bounce off our hero’s silver shiny suited exterior–i think the latter–for ‘whatever’ Charlie has on Whyte, I am sure that our hero has even more on Charlie..

    Oh yes–this is sizing up just nicely– and I bet you Charlie’s legendary suit that Traynor et-al will be all ears to the desperate Media House stuff which our Pal jack will no doubt be inventing as we discuss–this really is their worst nightmare–and so soon before the flotation?? Everyone in their best Dick Emery voice; Oh, Mr Whyte-You are awful:)

    Always raises a smile too seeing Di-Stefano is never to far away–and never had been–say’s it all really…what a pack of absolute and utter crooks!! Hello Mr MSM! They are right underneath your noses–c’mon, if this isn’t real opportunity, the addition of a commentating Di Stefano on the sidelines surely has to point towards a good few days worth of bonus sales?? Don’t worry, your prime demographic will still buy it–ok, maybe minus a few clowns that read Leggats blog–but the gain you will make from others will more than compensate–go on!

    Team Whyte v Team Green–the Sun could take Whyte’s side and the Daily Record, siding with the Green camp–who will win?? I’m genuinly excited and my colours a well and truly nailed to the mast, it’s TGEF all the way for me!

    Laaaadieees and Gentlemen….

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