We spend an inordinate amount of time on this blog arguing about what the re-emergent Rangers should be called. It is a rather circular debate with no way of finding any consensus. The dispute between Rangers (“The Rangerists”) or The Rangers or Sevco (“The Sevconians”) and its claim to be the club that was formed in the 19th century is spurious. Whichever way you look at it, the continuity of the “brand” is undeniable and as long those who wish to keep buying that package are satisfied that the wrapping is authentic – where’s the harm?
The red herring in the argument is that “history” is important. To the average football fan, it is nothing of the kind. As a Celtic fan myself, and a bit of a student of the history of the club, I am constantly dismayed by the Thousand Yard Stare I get from your average Celtic fan who is confronted with the names of people who contributed significantly to the club’s identity. Key figures like Sandy McMahon, Jimmy Delaney, Jimmy McGrory and (God help us) John Thomson rarely elicit recognition.
Modern football fans who live in the instant gratification society of the the WWW and mobile communications may pay lip service to their clubs’ history, but that’s not what gives the modern football fan wears as his badge of honour. That is a commodity often erroneously confused with history – the bragging rights associated with the trophy haul.
The ability to claim that “we have more titles than you” is far more valuable to a supporter than which 19th century attacking centre-back won the Scottish Cup with a last minute header; and the value of said cup wins is heavily weighted in favour of the most recent (save for the honourable exception of the European successes).
The maintenance of that illusion of superiority is crucial if Rangers fans are to believe that their club is still Rangers. Perhaps in time they may even come to fully believe it themselves, but the cataract of column inches devoted to propagating that myth, both from the MSM and from information outlets controlled by Charles Green’s organisation, betrays a lack of total belief by the chief Bear-existentialists. Protesting too much may not be subtle, but that never put off your average fitba’ man either.
The upshot though is this. There is a belief – or at least a hope – amongst Rangerists that the continuity argument holds. They will call the new club Rangers. Fans of other clubs who make up the vast majority of the Sevconian tendency, believe nothing of the kind. They will call it something else.
Many will remind Rangerists that the old club died, and this is factually correct (or at least will be very soon). Rangerists will counter that the Rangers ethos lives on at Ibrox, and despite the worrying overtones (for some) contained in that statement, that is also factually correct.
Rangerists will also point out, as Rangers fans on this blog already have, that the SPL bent over backwards to assist the continuity of the club in order to minimise the financial consequences for Scottish football, and that the SFL too, have agreed that they are the same club.
Why? Simply because Scottish Football thinks it needs to help perpetrate they illusion of continuity to avoid the loss of thousands of paying customers to the game altogether.
So round one has gone to the Rangerists, with the Sevconians pretty much taking an eight-count.
So is the name thing important? I don’t think it is of critical importance. The name in itself doesn’t matter, but to merely agree that everything is as before is to join forces with the MSM, SFA & SPL who have sought to give RFC and their tax theft a pass.
Whatever happens in the future though, the illusion hasn’t worked completely. The Sevconians’ wish to call the new club by a different name was for the purpose of making it synonymous with tax evasion, however the name Rangers now evokes exactly that response. There is now a discernible pause when people mention Rangers. A pause that reflects on the dis-service they did to the country, and to the game of football in Scotland.
Which brings us to the really important point. Throughout this saga rules have been bent. Conflicted individuals, alleged to have been involved in the tax and registration scam and its subsequent cover-up, have remained in positions of authority and power, despite being under a cloud throughout. The media have been complicit, except in rare cases, in allowing the wrong-doing to go unquestioned, actively campaigning for rules not to be applied.
What we have been saying all along is this. Please play the game by the rules, and do not manufacture special cases for the financially powerful.
Call Rangers whatever you wish, but deal with their transgressions appropriately in the spirit of sporting fairness, and within the framework of the existing rules. That is the least – and most – we expect. We don’t ask for much. Just give us back some pride in our sport .
..or as Beetlejuice (say it 3 times and RFC appears in your house) would say; It’s showtime!
timtim says:
Wednesday, October 17, 2012 at 00:41
‘The worst part of tonight is that I have to live and work in Belgium and tomorrow I will be getting
it ripped right out of me.’
—
No, no.
Put a positive spin on things, for goodness sake, timtim.
Point out that it took a long while for the Belgian racehorses to score against the Scottish carthorses, and even then their first goal was an ordinary enough first-head-to-the ball-at -a-corner kind of goal. ( second goal reminded me of several I scored playing for the Good Shepherd primary- sublime!).
Point out that while the superb performance by McGregor was hugely important, the save from Maloney’s superb free kick was just as significant.
Point out that while they might win the section, their inability to turn their undoubted superiority in play into an early goal will work against them against sides that have a keener cutting edge.
There is, in my humble opinion, based on last night’s game, no way that that Belgian team will win the World Cup.
john clarke says:
———
I think a duvet day would be much easier 🙂
but if necessary I will follow your good advice
carolingian2 says:
Wednesday, October 17, 2012 at 01:00
‘..fter TSFM reads this & deletes me, I will return in another guise with more information for you on who is who & who is someone else on this blog!
A delicious thing is the Truth, no?’
—
Am I the only one to think there’s something creepy about this poster? I can see Christopher Lee at his hamming-it-up best here.
Ah, the return of the MBBAKAGEF…
Whilst he will be an entertaining distraction, that’s all it will be.
So, has Odious Ogilvie been punted yet? 🙄
Careful John – he may take your koala bear and replace it with Bela Lugosi!
John Clarke
Well ‘observed.’
Goose. Gander. One Law.
Last night TSFM banned Observer from this site because Observer’s partner (posting as abodyswullie) came on to defend him from some heavy bullying. That seems normal behaviour to me!
And no doubt TSFM has reasons for posting on here under multiple aliases.
But surely we can expect some moral consistency here?
Hope you enjoyed this eminently reasonable post before it was deleted!
RE the trolling and carolingian2 posts–what exactly is your reason for posting tonight?? What exactly is it you wish to share with the community?? Instead of replying and debating, it’s probably best comments, like those of carolingian2, are either IP banned or if not to be, at least completely ignored–lot of odd and completely irrelevant topics of recent–oh what could the matter be??
So who’s posting tonight then, Observer, yer dog?
carolingian2 says:
Wednesday, October 17, 2012 at 01:03
And who is Southern Exile?
——————-
Och, here’s me, a wee lurker who occasionally puts ma heid above the parapet….
We should stay observant, I hope…
Observer//Carolingian2
On a night where………..
Scotland went to the bottom of their group and are already out of the WC 2 years before it takes part……….
Hearts did not pay their staff – is this because SPL/Sevoc have not paid their money to them?
CW is sighted coming over the hill…..
LH is putting his robes on………….
FTT is dotting the is and crossing the ts ready to report………
With all this material…………..
Your disclosures about posters on here show you are indeed an investigative journalist worthy of being fit for the MSM……….
Congrats! You and all your family posting on here using the same ids/ips/email ids must be so proud!
The Euro licence issued by the SFA to Rangers for season 2011/12
=======================================================
I was particularly impressed on RTC with the tenaciousness of Auldheid on this subject.
He was like a dog with a bone – and quite rightly he smelled something rotten at the SFA wrt to the outstanding Wee Tax Case and the ‘routine’ issuance of the Euro licence.
But does anyone know the current status of this?
Is this one of the outstanding SFA investigations?
Can Auldheid himself give an update?
This reminds me of the night I, and many others, thought that RTC had been hacked.
http://rangerstaxcase.wordpress.com/2011/09/30/craig-whytes-confessions-a-critical-analysis/comment-page-34/#comments
RTC ended up trying to convince us that it was really him.
I was confused that night and it is all getting a bit surreal again.
I don’t know what’s what and who’s who.
It reminds me of the Chick Murray line when he says: “The man started speaking to me about this and that… of which I know very little.”
Is every post on here to my taste? No – I skip ones the same way I skip emails at work – those that interest me I read and give a TU if I think well thought out (even if I don’t agree) – for ones that have private OT posts, those that don’t interest me I skip. Not sure why it bothers you so much.
I like others take care in not allowing this to be a one sided site. So the charge that this is pro Celtic and are happy to revel in their ex-rivals demise is nonsense.
We all want answers from SFA/SPL
We are waiting for the rulings to come through.
As for the Guidigate – the fact that Radio Clyde may have doctored it would seem more of an issue – however you promised to drop it but as Reeves and Mortimer used to say, you wouldn’t let it lie. That is where the posts you got that were enough to knock you off your senstivie perch.
Yes there are MH trolls on here – so don’t go down to their level – join the fight – the cause is that SFA/MSM/SPL have covered up the tracks of the cheaters and then tried to enable their ressurrection to suit their own agenda.
However – we need the FTT/Dual contracts news to get this into another gear……
We will have to be patient! I think it will be worth it myself!
Just in case people wonder why I remember this night.
http://rangerstaxcase.wordpress.com/2011/09/30/craig-whytes-confessions-a-critical-analysis/comment-page-35/#comments
“rangerstaxcase says:
12/10/2011 at 5:33 at
Great. A new day, but still this pish. (Only a few hours sleep and I am in a foul mood).
Very disappointed in you Ray Charles. (You should now have 3 emails from me in the inbox of the email you used to post here). I have now tweeted and sent facebook messages. I have sent emails. I have explained my point of view. Can we just move along?
As for your post above, funny you should ask about evidence of Rangers debt having been paid in full:
Here is one of your own posts!
Ray Charles
[email address and IP address redacted]
Submitted on 2011/09/28 at 12:50 am….”
Ouch!
My only excuse was that I had been drinking.
Just to keep the deja vu madness going.
From the link above:
“Private Land says:
12/10/2011 at 12:10 am
Posts disappearing now. Three I saw five minutes ago have ‘done a Murray’
plus one says:
12/10/2011 at 12:13 am
Comment after comment are being deleted. Are we witnessing the death of the greatest blog revealing the truth of the rangers tax situation? Sad times.”
On this occasion RTC had indeed deleted posts.
It was not the death of the blog though.
Oh, and Private Land was not a Sevconian.
If Private Land and those who run this blog are undercover Media House operatives then I was right about RTC all along.
He WAS hacked in October last year and has actually been pushing Jack Irvine spin ever since.
Does this make sense?
Quick sweep of the papers and I’m not seeing anything.
Has Phil jumped the gun? Tomorrow maybe?
carolingian2 says:
Wednesday, October 17, 2012 at 01:39
6 9 Rate This
—————–
This all sounds very familar. Anyone who’s been observing certain other rantings, observantly, may have noticed a previous agenda to split the forum by using: attacks on certain CFC fans, an attack on the admin, a swamp of the board with obsessive multi-posts, and by attempting to promote a non-issue into the all-absorbing subject. Blimey, there’s even a quiter twin backing it all up, again. Oh, and the threats to return to cause more mayhem, uh, reveal more truth about how corrupt TSFM is. The only thing you forgot was to demand an apology 🙂
Regarding the Hearts issue: I can’t see how the club can be punished for non-payment when it can claim a non-payment – from the very authorities who would stand in judgement of a non-payment issue – is to blame.
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spl/hearts-manager-john-mcglynn-and-six-players-not-paid-as-hearts-wage-crisis-resumes-1-2582711
PS
posmill says:
Tuesday, October 16, 2012 at 23:28
8 0 Rate This
————
I apologise if I gave the impression I thought you were talkng mince posmill. Far from it. I’m the less bright one at the back of the class who needs to ask a few more questions than others 😉
Regarding a possible appeal arising from the FTTT decision. I believe that the only parties that can appeal are (S)DM/MIH or HMRC.
On Phil’s latest blog:
http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/hurricane-craigie-set-to-hit-ibrox/
What a tease – more questions than answers after that bombshell.
I am beginning to think that the main players CW, CG believed that RFC was to big to fail, and that the Club would be allowed to continue as before, thus preserving the means to make money where the fans would keep rolling up with THEIR hard earned cash, which is then transferred to the owners of the Club. Did CG not try and negotiate for minimum financial penalties, continued access to TV money? That belief that the Club was to big to fail and the fundamentals of its business would remain enabled the players to come up with elaborate close to the edge of legality money making (i.e. asset stripping?) schemes, that most people would not dream of implementing?
That belief that the Club is to big to fail looks to have held in the initial acts of this sorry play – the SFA and the MSM provided the supporting material – Green et al believed that TRFC would come back into the SPL or SFL Div 1 with history intact etc.
Has something happened to spoil the best laid plans of mice and men? Green appears to be rushing out the share issue? I know that he said that he would always be in this for the short term before exiting and that a share issue was always on the cards. But it does appear to be a rushed panic measure.
Why could CW come back onto the stage? Is he returning to pick up the spoils or to spoil the party? Could it be possibly against the interests of CW for the share issue to go ahead and this is his opening gambit in disrupting the proposed offering?
Final question – if CG/CW linked – on what basis did the SFA find that the new owners were fit and proper persons?
I see that one Scottish paper (online, anyway) savages the Scotland manager Levein with a Taylor-esque sprout picture.
I find it strange that the MSM have no problems whatsoever in doing this but are afraid to ask very legitimate, professional, relevant questions regarding the concerns over T’Rangers share issue, CO and dual-contracts, to name a few.
I suppose it sums up the situation where it’s OK to attack the National team but not T’Rangers.
Hi
back in the UK ,watched the Scotland game last night and then the after match stuff ,I imagine the fall out regards the manager and his results will attract a lot of [negative] press to fill out the pages over the next few days ,I suppose this will be the second week in a row a top manager in Scotland has been slaughtered in the press for their cup competition results over the last year or so,only fair that what one gets another gets ,it did happen ,did it not..
FIFA
With thanks to kitalba on CQN
http://thedemiseofrangersinpictures.blogspot.com.au/2012/10/the-life-of-brian.html#!/2012/10/the-life-of-brian.html
And again
http://boards.footymad.net/forum.php?tno=4&fid=27&sty=2&act=17&mid=2114206616
Long Time Lurker says:
Wednesday, October 17, 2012 at 08:02
====================
I tend to agree.
Certain assumptions were made, and plans based on those assumptions. Those were founded of an arrogance which demonstrates that the “we are the people” mentality is not just words, it is a mantra which is actually believed.
That Rangers were too big to fail, that they and their support were a part of the fabric of Scottish society, that football in Scotland was nothing without them. How could they possibly be treated even remotely like Gretna, or Airdrie, or Livingston, this is Rangers we are talking about.
In a way they were right, in so far as the SFA, SPL and SFL tried everything they could to support that position. If Rangers and the football authorities had their way they would be playing in the SPL this season, at the very worst SFL1 with a view to being out of the top league for 1 season. Even Man Utd have dropped out of the top league, so it is not the end of the World.
The problem is the fans of other clubs disagreed.
There is no way that anyone planned for the new club to be in SFL3, with the bulk of the players from the ld club away. Not able to play in Europe for at least 3 seasons. It is simply not viable, not with the staffing levels they have and Ibrox Stadium and Murray Park to maintain. Not with over 1/3 of their main revenues, season tickets cut. Not with their turnover down to something like 25% of what it used to be.
The plan went wrong, because the fans would not wear it, and to a certain extent they are making it up as they go along.
With regard this being a pro-Celtic site, nonsense, in what way. The argument could be made that it is anti-Rangers but that is not the same thing. Even then, I think being anti lying, stealing and cheating is a reasonable position to take.
carolingian2 says:
Wednesday, October 17, 2012 at 01:00
9 14 Rate This
Starting at the top, TSFM’s main alias on this blog is “neepheid”.
Note that posts by TSFM and ‘neipheid’ occur often in close proximity to each other (TSFM has declared this to be the ultimate anathema on this site. and he is right!)
=======================
Just in case anyone takes this clown seriously, and for the avoidance of doubt, I am not TSFM and TSFM is not me. I post only under this name and no other and the ravings and rantings which I post are mine and mine alone. I have no idea who TSFM is, and the only communication I’ve ever had with him/her concerned a post of mine which s/he had removed.
I always go back to the example Mark Daly reported on.
Haulage company tried to expand too quickly and when work slowed they required investment.
Step up the Whytes. Promised £? for 51% of the business. Didn’t pay up and we all know what happened next.
Point being, they now owned the majority.
I’m of the opinion that these scams are all similar, just that they vary in size.
So, what if Craigybhoy wrecks Charliebhoy’s plan? He’d still own the lot, yes?
Oh, ma sides are achin’ 🙂 🙂 🙂
Another slow news period & the blog eats itself….thanks to Raycharlez for reminding us of when same happened on RTC and helps me understand why RTC called it a day. I hope PL doesn’t do the same before the FTT reports!
neepheid says:
Wednesday, October 17, 2012 at 09:37
I have no idea who TSFM is, and the only communication I’ve ever had with him/her concerned a post of mine which s/he had removed
———————————————–
Aaah, the old double bluff. Get your own posts removed to distract any cyber sleuths. You can’t fool us neepheid 😀
Of course this is probably Plan Q because after tea at the Savoy if Plan P (the share donation) fell short, (and Charliebhoy will know if it has) they’d need another fall back to maximise the wonga.
neepheid says:
Wednesday, October 17, 2012 at 09:37
Why would someone go to all the bother 🙂
Let’s TOTALLY ignore it.
Just a thought though – if Ticketus are still involved then so is CW as their back-up guarantor. The only way Ticketus and CW get out (they can sort out who gets the lion’s share themselves and throw CG his agreed scraps) is to maximise the float “revenue.” How better to do that than a Private Fraser “We’re all doomed I tell you” message especially with a wee snappy dug behind him barking “its all those pesky CFC,SFA, bampots insert as appropriate yap yap”
(Very) Non CFC fan sticking with the site, competent enough to spot the trolls (mostly) and avoid the wind ups, unless they’re funny of course. Still very keen to hear the RFC side of the arguement so would ask all to at least give them fair hearing.
You can see why Craigy will intervene. Disputed or not he believes (and I do) that he owns 100% of some % of the club or assets. Should Chuckles get away with his share scam his ownership will be dilluted by at least 49%.
A copy of an email sent from Media House to Richard Wilson, copied almost verbatim in the Herald.
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/rangers-share-issue-on-course-for-target.19166804
This is journalism?
http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/celtic/195094-scottish-cup-ban-for-celtic-after-squad-is-depleted-by-international-calls/
Someone made comment on this through the night and I think it’s worth re-posting. It doesn’t matter if it was Celtic or not. Defies belief!
doontheslope says:
Wednesday, October 17, 2012 at 10:22
0 0 Rate This
A copy of an email sent from Media House to Richard Wilson, copied almost verbatim in the Herald.
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/rangers-share-issue-on-course-for-target.19166804
=======================================
From the “Herald” article-
” Only current and former season ticket holders, as well as former shareholders, are eligible to buy shares”
Can an IPO really work like that? Are you allowed to discriminate between applicants? How about the institutional investors we were promised? Why no mention of these restrictions on the TRFC website, or the website where interests are registered?
On the TRFC website it says “Fans and others interested in investing in the Club should register with Capita Registrars only. Details below.”
I am now totally confused.
http://sport.stv.tv/football/195195-football-talk-strachan-sos-serbia-racism-paul-mcconville-responds-to-gow/
neepheid says:
Wednesday, October 17, 2012 at 10:40
====================
Could it be that the plan is that when the IPO fails then we move to plan B (the real Plan A) and sell privately.
No difference as far as the bears are concerned, still buying Rangers shares after all.
The guy’s a class act….
Andrew Breen @Andrewbreen91
@alextomo hi, I’ve recently started my dissertation on CSR in Scottish Football. Looking at corporate governance in the game. Any advice?
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15 Oct alex thomson @alextomo
@Andrewbreen91 good luck. R corporate disaster could amount to owing every man, woman and child in Scotland £16.90.
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22h davie @davie246
@alextomo why pick 16.90 you trying to be contoversial again ?????
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21h alex thomson @alextomo
@davie246 ooooh touchy!
john clarke says:
Tuesday, October 16, 2012 at 22:38
Angus 1983, you should know better than that! You cannot blithely make an unsubstantiated assertion and then head off rebuttal by saying that this blog is not for theological discussion. Two can play at that game, (and I think I would win!:)
——
John – I’m more than happy to get involved in theological discussions – particularly concerning the origins, authors and historical veracity of the New Testament. In fact, I love it. The Jehovahs have stopped coming to my house. 🙂
I just thought that a fitba blog wasn’t the place to do it.
The fact remains, however, that nobody (Jewish, disciple or Roman) claimed or recorded Jesus’ resurrection until some decades after his death. Such an event, you would think, would have been notable.
Forty-odd years later, a chap (or chaps) in a different country, in a different language, produced the first synoptic gospel containing stories that had been transmitted orally and across physical and linguistic borders up till that point (cf. Chinese whispers).
Paul, however, gives the earliest biblical explanation of resurrection (maybe 20 years after Jesus death), which basically involves your spirit continuing to exist after your body dies:
1 Corinthians 35-49
He also states in 1 Corinthians that he “saw” Jesus after his resurrection, as did Peter, the twelve (Judas presumably having been resurrected too!), the Apostles (eh? are they not the twelve?) and another 500 anonymous folks. No mention of Mary Magdalene or any other girlies.
Paul, however, was not there at the time and did not encounter Jesus until the road to Damascus event during which the latter was in spirit form.
Biblical “resurrection” did not originally mean that the body came back to life. It meant that the spirit lived on.
Thought it was important to post this too. It shows Alex Thomsons impartiality in all of this.
21h davie @davie246
@alextomo looking for your last blog everyone talking about to read for myself….
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21h alex thomson @alextomo
@davie246 Hi Davie – it should be at the http://channel4.com/news website – over 120,000 hits last I heard.
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20h davie @davie246
@alextomo when do you cover the blood stained poppies banner…referees being attacked….windows being smashed….cars being vandalised
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20h alex thomson @alextomo
@davie246 when Celtic becomes a massive corporate car-crash and thus news. And don’t think I wouldn’t. Couldn’t care less abt CFC.
Apologies to all for last night’s show of impetuousness by Observer/abodywullie/carolingian2/lividolo/OldGold and his extended family.
For the record, Neepheid is not my alter-ego, although since he posted just an hour ago, I believe that may just confirm the accusation
I do not post under any other aliases on the site, and in fact I think someone actually argued that I should to separate my opinion from moderator duties.
I was a reader on RTC, and never posted there. Myself and one of the other mods, also an RTC virgin, had the idea to take over where RTC left off, and at the start of the blog, we had some technical assistance to do so. I had considerably more time on hands than the other mod, so I assumed the eponymous handle 🙂
As someone mentioned, it has been a slow day or two, and with time on their hands, anyone can get in and wreak havoc for a short while. We will continue to be vigilant to allow fair comment and to keep the discussion on-topic.
Please keep religion, party politics and testosterone away from the discussion.
TSFM
Wednesday, October 17, 2012 at 10:40
From the “Herald” article-
” Only current and former season ticket holders, as well as former shareholders, are eligible to buy shares”
Can an IPO really work like that? Are you allowed to discriminate between applicants? How about the institutional investors we were promised? Why no mention of these restrictions on the TRFC website, or the website where interests are registered?
On the TRFC website it says “Fans and others interested in investing in the Club should register with Capita Registrars only. Details below.”
I am now totally confused.
……………………………………………………………
I applied like many other online and there were no questions asked or any way to determine who was a season ticket/ex season ticket/former shareholder.
The last I looked there were supposedly 85.000 plus interests so has someone sat and went through every one to compare names and address’s to list of current S.T. and former S.T. holders and shareholders.
How is it possible to know from the data asked who is or was a season ticket holder?
KG @annagry2000
@alextomo Hearing Craig Whyte is going to break cover this week with allegations against Duff & Phelps. Any chance of contacting him?
14h alex thomson @alextomo
@annagry2000 called y’day and left msg
neepheid says:
Wednesday, October 17, 2012 at 10:40
It just seems to be yet another unfathomable part of the grand plan, but part of the plan it undoubtedly is. It makes no sense, which ties in completely with everything else about the whole farce. Confuse and conquer, then run away while all the mugs are celebrating a Piric victory!
bawsbustedanatha says:
Wednesday, October 17, 2012 at 11:08
‘KG @annagry2000
@alextomo Hearing Craig Whyte is going to break cover this week with allegations against Duff & Phelps. Any chance of contacting him?
14h alex thomson @alextomo
@annagry2000 called y’day and left ms’
—-
Please, i’ve tried my best, but I don’t know how to read these twittery things. Who is saying what to whom or vice-versa?
I note that I have once again been referred to as a “bully” (in a post now apparently deleted).
Am I a bully – cyber or otherwise?
TU for Yes , TD for No.
Thanks for your time!
doontheslope says:
Wednesday, October 17, 2012 at 10:22
No it is not journalism because it does not question the breakdown of the ‘pledges’. As was pointed out on here yesterday the figures reported seem to suggest an average of £2000 a pop.
Nor does it question if only 7500 people have come forward what has become of the rest of the 30,000 season ticket holders the 10,000 pay as you goers and the 500 million worldwide fans. Surely many more would be willing to take a punt at £500.
History tells us that perhaps the 7500 maybe isn’t too far off.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/2392840/Rangers-raise-51m-through-share-scheme.html
“Murray MHL Limited, a company controlled by Murray, took its rights to 11,785,479 and subscribed for a further 38,489,521 shares – a total of £50,275,000.
In many cases, existing shareholders applied for additional shares, and the rights issue also succeeded in attracting 1,263 new shareholders, raising a further £307,530.
Murray believes the financial future of Rangers now looks far more optimistic: “The success of the fundraising was guaranteed by MHL underwriting the issue, but the investment by over 4,500 subscribers demonstrates strong support for this initiative.”
To help Richard Wilson out
In terms of how much people the Bears are willing to shell out a poll on Rangers Media gives an unscientific look at the ‘average fan’
£500 (94 votes [55.62%])
£600 (4 votes [2.37%])
£700 (1 votes [0.59%])
£800 (0 votes [0.00%])
£900 (0 votes [0.00%])
£1,000 (45 votes [26.63%])
£1,500 (3 votes [1.78%])
£2,000 (4 votes [2.37%])
£2,500 (1 votes [0.59%])
£3000 (2 votes [1.18%])
£3,500 (0 votes [0.00%])
£4,000 (0 votes [0.00%])
£5,000 (6 votes [3.55%])
£6,000 (0 votes [0.00%])
£7,000 (0 votes [0.00%])
£8,000 (2 votes [1.18%])
£9,000 (1 votes [0.59%])
£10,000 (2 votes [1.18%])
£10,000+ (4 votes [2.37%])
If those percentages are factored up to the 7500 reported and the 4 votes for £10,000+ is set at £15,000 for arguments sake that raises £11.1million and the average donation is closer to £1500 a go.
Therefore taking into account history and a poll of T’Rangers fans maybe £15m isn’t far off.
However the proof of the pudding will be in the eating when it comes to the time when a prospectus is issued and people have to part with their cash.
angus1983 says:
Wednesday, October 17, 2012 at 11:13
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Rate This
I note that I have once again been referred to as a “bully” (in a post now apparently deleted).
Am I a bully – cyber or otherwise?
TU for Yes , TD for No.
Thanks for your time!
__________________________________________
Are you the big boy what done it and ran away?
allyjambo says:
Wednesday, October 17, 2012 at 11:10
————————————————
Pyrrhic.
wottpi says:
Wednesday, October 17, 2012 at 11:16
I will be very surprised if they don’t, at least, get very close to their target figure. Many investors will be mugs, plain and simple, but even the more financially aware supporters will know it’s last chance saloon for their club. They will be aware that Green is a spiv but might feel that if he gets his £20m he’ll stick around long enough to be replaced by some less spiv-like money man, while suspecting that if he raises much less than he’s looking for he’ll just pocket the lot and go. They have a ‘No Surrender’ attitude right now and Green is using it to his own great advantage. I think too, that they will not want to go down without a fight (think Rangers FIGHTING Fund) and will want to be seen as having done everything, sparing none of their own money, to save their club
Woooooooooooffffffttttttttt……..
KG @annagry2000
@alextomo Hearing Craig Whyte is going to break cover this week with allegations against Duff & Phelps. Any chance of contacting him?
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15h alex thomson @alextomo
@annagry2000 called y’day and left msg
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15h KG @annagry2000
@alextomo Good man Alex. Let us know what he says once you’ve spoken with him.
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15h alex thomson @alextomo
@annagry2000 of course – been at him for months
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22m Carntyne Riddrie @Riddrie
@alextomo @annagry2000 A Craig Whyte biography. Those who dare, OooooH! Click Here >> http://www.oregoncounseling.org/handouts/psychopathicpersonality.htm …
FavoritedFavorite
18m alex thomson @alextomo ing he’s spoken to the beeb apparently!
angus1983 says:
Wednesday, October 17, 2012 at 11:03
john clarke says:
Tuesday, October 16, 2012 at 22:38
Angus 1983, you should know better than that! You cannot blithely make an unsubstantiated assertion and then head off rebuttal by saying that this blog is not for theological discussion. Two can play at that game, (and I think I would win!:)
——
John – I’m more than happy to get involved in theological discussions – particularly concerning the origins, authors and historical veracity of the New Testament. In fact, I love it. The Jehovahs have stopped coming to my house.
*************
I follow the Billy Connelly method of getting rid of Mormons and Jehovahs – if you answer the door in your underpants and scratch yourself while inviting them to come in, they tend to go away and never come back……. 🙂
KG @annagry2000
@alextomo Hearing Craig Whyte is going to break cover this week with allegations against Duff & Phelps. Any chance of contacting him?
alex thomson @alextomo
@Riddrie I’m hearing he’s spoken to the beeb apparently!
torrejohnbhoy says:
Wednesday, October 17, 2012 at 11:46
alex thomson @alextomo
@Riddrie I’m hearing he’s spoken to the beeb apparently!
Here’s hoping that as I type, the beeb are going through the draft of a jucy news piece with their lawyers prior to publication 🙂
john clarke says:
Wednesday, October 17, 2012 at 11:12
AT left CW a message yesterday.
20 minutes ago AT heard that CW has spoken to the BBC
Obviously edited 🙂
Excellent – just finishing work – now I can get my dinner, open a Singha and wait for the implosion of CW’s confession……….
john clarke says:
Wednesday, October 17, 2012 at 11:12
alex thomson @alextomo
Copy and paste above into browser, or if using Chrome highlight it, right click and select “search google for…”
Latest from AT:
alex thomson @alextomo
Rangers: Duff and Phelps just texted. Statement due later today. I assume about BDO/liquidation
Things are heating up….
alex thomson @alextomo
RANGERS – though perhaps confirming Craig Whyte’s possible links to administrators and owner Charles Green
3m alex thomson @alextomo
Rangers: Duff and Phelps just texted. Statement due later today. I assume about BDO/liquidation.
alex thomson @alextomo
RANGERS – though perhaps confirming Craig Whyte’s possible links to administrators and owner Charles Green
Expand Reply Retweet Favorite
.
AT now suggesting that Duff and Duffer (copyright acknowledged) may release a statement concerning reported links between CG and the administrators.
alex thomson @alextomo
RANGERS – though perhaps confirming Craig Whyte’s possible links to administrators and owner Charles Green
Just tweeted Alex to let him know Charliebhoy isn’t THE owner 🙂
allyjambo says:
Wednesday, October 17, 2012 at 11:31
Agreed. I posted a warning the other day that none of us should be surprised if the share issue is successful. Mr Charles is still the only game in town for them.
In a tweet from yesterday or Monday RTC said that in a similar last chance saloon/back to the wall situation then he too would shell out £500 to save his own club.
The problem is really one of what they do with the money that is raised this time round and what they are actually planning for the future.
My guess is that Mr Charles and some of his pals will take their cut as soon as possible and then head for the hills. He won’t want to hang about as he will be found out as soon as the big plans fail to materialise. (Same way that he put the kibosh on a mass of new signings before the window shut but allowed Ally to get Templeton just to keep the fans onside).
Whoever comes in after Mr Charles will then have to pick up the pieces of whatever is left.
If T’Rangers are lucky they may have a few million in the bank as rainy day money to get through this season and possibly 2013/14 but there will not be enough for hotels, cancer centres, worldwide academies, etc etc.
What money there is will probably go on, when they can, bringing in players on higher salaries and some of the younger players will be punted given the limit on over 21’s in the SFL. If they are sensible and make use of the money that is available through a large domestic fan base they will make slow and careful progress to establishing themselves as the number two club in Scottish Football. Given the current situation Celtic will continue to push away ahead of the rest.
Anything more ambitious will see T’Rangers in the brown stuff again.
The trouble is that having stirred up many a Bear into a frenzy with plans for global domination are the majority of fans going to be satisfied with what really needs to be done to give the club a sustainable future and will they be able to settle down and cope with the reality of the situation and think themsleves lucky they dodged a bullet?
Chris McLaughlin @BBCchrismclaug
BBC Scotland has been speaking exclusively to former #Rangers owner Craig Whyte. Across all BBC outlets soon.
Phil was right!
Chris McLaughlin@BBCchrismclaug
BBC Scotland has been speaking exclusively to former #Rangers owner Craig Whyte. Across all BBC outlets soon.
“Douglas Fraser @BBCDouglsFraser
Steve Green, who wanted to buy Hall’s of Broxburn, has a lawyer called Gary Withey – same guy who acted for Craig Whyte at #Rangers”
Info coming fast & furious.Blogs might be in meltdown soon!
http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af301/bm82_cm/PTG.gif
BBC article: Craig Whyte: I brought Charles Green in to buy Rangers
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-19976991
Heading for an early lunch in preparation for a fun afternoon glued to the PC. 🙂
So Phil was right! Go Whytey!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJuvLndCMfc
Did someone say it was a slow news day? Popcorn…..:-)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-19976991
So BBC Chris has been honoured with an interview by Craig.
It might create waves.
But.
My instincts tell me that this is another sleight of hand and part of the plan by the gang of Spivs just like all the previous threats to sue each other.
“SPL knew that Rangers had no money and were heading into administration in October 2011″…..!