We spend an inordinate amount of time on this blog arguing about what the re-emergent Rangers should be called. It is a rather circular debate with no way of finding any consensus. The dispute between Rangers (“The Rangerists”) or The Rangers or Sevco (“The Sevconians”) and its claim to be the club that was formed in the 19th century is spurious. Whichever way you look at it, the continuity of the “brand” is undeniable and as long those who wish to keep buying that package are satisfied that the wrapping is authentic – where’s the harm?
The red herring in the argument is that “history” is important. To the average football fan, it is nothing of the kind. As a Celtic fan myself, and a bit of a student of the history of the club, I am constantly dismayed by the Thousand Yard Stare I get from your average Celtic fan who is confronted with the names of people who contributed significantly to the club’s identity. Key figures like Sandy McMahon, Jimmy Delaney, Jimmy McGrory and (God help us) John Thomson rarely elicit recognition.
Modern football fans who live in the instant gratification society of the the WWW and mobile communications may pay lip service to their clubs’ history, but that’s not what gives the modern football fan wears as his badge of honour. That is a commodity often erroneously confused with history – the bragging rights associated with the trophy haul.
The ability to claim that “we have more titles than you” is far more valuable to a supporter than which 19th century attacking centre-back won the Scottish Cup with a last minute header; and the value of said cup wins is heavily weighted in favour of the most recent (save for the honourable exception of the European successes).
The maintenance of that illusion of superiority is crucial if Rangers fans are to believe that their club is still Rangers. Perhaps in time they may even come to fully believe it themselves, but the cataract of column inches devoted to propagating that myth, both from the MSM and from information outlets controlled by Charles Green’s organisation, betrays a lack of total belief by the chief Bear-existentialists. Protesting too much may not be subtle, but that never put off your average fitba’ man either.
The upshot though is this. There is a belief – or at least a hope – amongst Rangerists that the continuity argument holds. They will call the new club Rangers. Fans of other clubs who make up the vast majority of the Sevconian tendency, believe nothing of the kind. They will call it something else.
Many will remind Rangerists that the old club died, and this is factually correct (or at least will be very soon). Rangerists will counter that the Rangers ethos lives on at Ibrox, and despite the worrying overtones (for some) contained in that statement, that is also factually correct.
Rangerists will also point out, as Rangers fans on this blog already have, that the SPL bent over backwards to assist the continuity of the club in order to minimise the financial consequences for Scottish football, and that the SFL too, have agreed that they are the same club.
Why? Simply because Scottish Football thinks it needs to help perpetrate they illusion of continuity to avoid the loss of thousands of paying customers to the game altogether.
So round one has gone to the Rangerists, with the Sevconians pretty much taking an eight-count.
So is the name thing important? I don’t think it is of critical importance. The name in itself doesn’t matter, but to merely agree that everything is as before is to join forces with the MSM, SFA & SPL who have sought to give RFC and their tax theft a pass.
Whatever happens in the future though, the illusion hasn’t worked completely. The Sevconians’ wish to call the new club by a different name was for the purpose of making it synonymous with tax evasion, however the name Rangers now evokes exactly that response. There is now a discernible pause when people mention Rangers. A pause that reflects on the dis-service they did to the country, and to the game of football in Scotland.
Which brings us to the really important point. Throughout this saga rules have been bent. Conflicted individuals, alleged to have been involved in the tax and registration scam and its subsequent cover-up, have remained in positions of authority and power, despite being under a cloud throughout. The media have been complicit, except in rare cases, in allowing the wrong-doing to go unquestioned, actively campaigning for rules not to be applied.
What we have been saying all along is this. Please play the game by the rules, and do not manufacture special cases for the financially powerful.
Call Rangers whatever you wish, but deal with their transgressions appropriately in the spirit of sporting fairness, and within the framework of the existing rules. That is the least – and most – we expect. We don’t ask for much. Just give us back some pride in our sport .
did Charles not say that he had never met Whyte ?
“SPL knew that Rangers had no money and were heading into administration in October 2011″…..!
_________________________
First Hand-Grenade.
On any suggestion of a previous connection, Green said: “It was complete rubbish. I met Craig Whyte for the very first time a week last Tuesday in London.”
13th May 2012
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/may/13/rangers-charles-green-craig-whyte
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/may/13/rangers-charles-green-craig-whyte
13 May 2012: On any suggestion of a previous connection, Green said: “It was complete rubbish. I met Craig Whyte for the very first time a week last Tuesday in London.”
timtim says:
Wednesday, October 17, 2012 at 12:31
great minds, or fools?
I’ll go for great minds 🙂
timtim says:
Wednesday, October 17, 2012 at 12:35
you’re the boss!
“SPL knew that Rangers had no money and were heading into administration in October 2011″…..!
From what I’ve been made aware, this is true. Doncaster also informed the Scottish Government of this. He said Hearts were headed that way too, though.
wottpi says:
Wednesday, October 17, 2012 at 11:16
In terms of how much people the Bears are willing to shell out a poll on Rangers Media gives an unscientific look at the ‘average fan’
£500 (94 votes [55.62%])
£600 (4 votes [2.37%])
£700 (1 votes [0.59%])
£800 (0 votes [0.00%])
£900 (0 votes [0.00%])
£1,000 (45 votes [26.63%])
£1,500 (3 votes [1.78%])
£2,000 (4 votes [2.37%])
£2,500 (1 votes [0.59%])
£3000 (2 votes [1.18%])
£3,500 (0 votes [0.00%])
£4,000 (0 votes [0.00%])
£5,000 (6 votes [3.55%])
£6,000 (0 votes [0.00%])
£7,000 (0 votes [0.00%])
£8,000 (2 votes [1.18%])
£9,000 (1 votes [0.59%])
£10,000 (2 votes [1.18%])
£10,000+ (4 votes [2.37%])
If those percentages are factored up to the 7500 reported and the 4 votes for £10,000+ is set at £15,000 for arguments sake that raises £11.1million and the average donation is closer to £1500 a go.
Therefore taking into account history and a poll of T’Rangers fans maybe £15m isn’t far off.
…………………………………………………..
Also remember that a lot of non Rangers fans are signed up to Rangers Media/ Follow Follow and I would think a fair few of them will be amongst the higher “pledges” on there as well.
Its still all smoke and mirrors imo.
It may well have been the first time they met. First time in contact though is another matter.
The administrators of Scottish football will rue the day they let SEVCO into Div 3.The story is about to get tasty again and the wilderness would have been the best place to park this corporate disgrace.
spanishcelt says:
Wednesday, October 17, 2012 at 11:06
2 0 Rate This
Wednesday, October 17, 2012 at 10:40
From the “Herald” article-
” Only current and former season ticket holders, as well as former shareholders, are eligible to buy shares”
Can an IPO really work like that? Are you allowed to discriminate between applicants? How about the institutional investors we were promised? Why no mention of these restrictions on the TRFC website, or the website where interests are registered?
On the TRFC website it says “Fans and others interested in investing in the Club should register with Capita Registrars only. Details below.”
I am now totally confused.
……………………………………………………………
I applied like many other online and there were no questions asked or any way to determine who was a season ticket/ex season ticket/former shareholder.
The last I looked there were supposedly 85.000 plus interests so has someone sat and went through every one to compare names and address’s to list of current S.T. and former S.T. holders and shareholders.
How is it possible to know from the data asked who is or was a season ticket holder?
……………………………………………………………
it is entirely possible because……….CG has a list of all current and previous ST holders and all the shareholders and bond holders that have been shafted
This is an exercise in seeing how many of the Sevconians are gullible enough to buy in again.
Some poor wee IT chap (worse still, office junior) will have the job of going through all the names/addresses/email addresses entered into the rangershareoffer web page and seeing who is on the list of ST holders (past/present) Supporters clubs, RST/RSA members, Bond Holders, RFC PLC(IA) shareholders and weeding them out
it could well be that of the 90,000 or so who have registered an interest that there are 7500 people who fall into the target category.
I expect those 7500 will be receiving an offer to buy shares in private company just around about the time the plug is pulled on a genuine IPO for the AIM – no doubt some legal challenge from CW for example, or even the lack of audited accounts will be cited as the reason for the IPO being pulled
Of course, as well as the 7500 above, I expect ALL previous ST, Shareholders, bond holders, RST/RSA members will get the same invite – but that 7500 are the ones who have shown an interest and they are the ones chuckie expects to stump up.
that is my guess.
Whether they will or not remains to be seen.
From BBC
“Craig Whyte: I brought Charles Green in to buy Rangers Craig Whyte claims to have introduced Charles Green to Duff and Phelps
Craig Whyte has claimed he introduced Charles Green to Duff and Phelps as the administrators searched for a buyer for Rangers.
The former Rangers owner made the claim in a wide-ranging interview with BBC Scotland’s Chris McLaughlin.
He also claimed Duff and Phelps knew of the controversial Ticketus deal before the purchase of the club was complete.
Mr Whyte said the SPL knew in October 2011 that Rangers “had no money” and were heading for administration.
Full details of the interview, and reaction to it, will be on the BBC Scotland news website later and on Reporting Scotland at 18:30.
There will be further analysis and discussion on Newsnight Scotland at 23:00 on BBC2 Scotland.”
And the SPL knew….cue the leaked emails 🙂
Ya think the SFA knew too?
For years SDM couldn’t sell the establishment club to anyone, no takers, none.
The establishment were well aware of their indiscretions and knew once the taxman came that the game was up.
To protect their lord and master escape plans with multiple contingencies came into being. This protection scheme once approved gave other major players hope, ensuring loyalty as the empire slowly crumbled.
These plans are still in operation and the people brought in to oversee them look as if they are thoroughly enjoying themselves.
And why not? They have protection from the highest echelons of society with members of the judiciary all too willing to leave files in the pending tray.
Politicians wheeled out for a supportive comment when required, who know to keep stum otherwise.
Police who refuse to enforce the new sectarian laws allowing ‘The Offensive Behaviour at Football and Threatening Communications’ to go unpunished.
The plans within plans have not run their course yet so be careful what you believe, remember most of what you read is propaganda.
The colourful names are only doing what they were brought into do and they ain’t finished yet.
Keep your eye on the ball, if you can remember which cup it’s under?
I think we have to ask two questions, which I know for sure are being asked at the BBC;
1. Why now? Whyte has had ample opportunity, especially when Lord Hodge ordered the report into conflicts of interest, to put the record straight.
2. Why the BBC and SuperChris? CW has had an historic dispute with the BBC going back to the first Mark Daly programme. He was treated with kid gloves by STV at that time. Why not them?
3. What does he have to gain? His reputation would only be restored if Bobby Ewing walked out of the shower. How does this help him walk away with a profit from his Rangers experience?
I’m with Gossy here. This is not bad news for Green’s ambitions. This is deflection yet again. The pantomime villain entering stage left will see a huge cry of “he’s behind you” go up from the assembled masses. Dropping the SPL in it is simply more icing on the cake.
I think this is designed to reinforce Green’s cred with the bears.
angus1983 says:
Wednesday, October 17, 2012 at 11:13
7 30 i
Rate This
I note that I have once again been referred to as a “bully” (in a post now apparently deleted).
Am I a bully – cyber or otherwise?
TU for Yes , TD for No.
Thanks for your time!
===================================
No, you are a troll though.
Why someone would prod other people’s religious beliefs, which you did, whilst at the same time saying it wasn’t proper to this forum is beyond me. You then go to the bother of making making the earlier post, on your issues with the New Testament and the flaws you perceive therein. Clearly trying to illicit a response.
Classic trolling, emotive and aiming for a response.
All you need is the other classic “he started it i was just responding” and you have the trolling trinity. (Yes I know what I did there).
I can’t believe it’s been left on the blog.
You aren’t a bully though, not from what I have seen.
BBC article: “Craig Whyte: I brought Charles Green in to buy Rangers”
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Why would a Spiv with no reputation to lose say that about another fellow Spiv with no reputation to lose ?
Looks very much like someone more credible is about to say the same thing in a more sinister context
Could LH be about to rule that D&P are guilty of COI ?
If so then a rewind of the sale to Green is a possibility
Of course the SPL knew. Anyone with half a brain knew. It was only those who didn’t want to believe it was true who claimed no to until it happened.
Serious questions for the SPL as well btw. If they knew RFC had no money in October 2011 why did they go along with the charade for so long?
obonfanti88 (@obonfanti88) says:
Wednesday, October 17, 2012 at 12:57
Of course the SPL knew. Anyone with half a brain knew. It was only those who didn’t want to believe it was true who claimed no to until it happened.
Serious questions for the SPL as well btw. If they knew RFC had no money in October 2011 why did they go along with the charade for so long?
——————————————————
To be fair to the SPL (words I never thought I would utter) most of their clubs have no money. Look at the difficulties Hearts are in. What would their intervention achieved? As long as Rangers continued to field a team they (the SPL) were justified in sitting back and letting nature takes its course.
If they had got involved then they would have been seen as the bad guys, instead of our favourite MBB.
Rather than just lurking, I logged on hoping to debate the debacle of our National team.
Do we sack the manager or sack the board ? A player cull or a root and branch clear out of those supposedly in charge of our game ? Do the S.F.A. have enough money to fly 30 players and coaches over to Rio, or do they only have enough for a few fact-finding missions for executives? ( I’m thinking of the Father Ted episode where they tried to avoid winning Eurovision because it was too expensive ).
Should we cultivate more from our younger squads rather than just checking the lineage of those who come to the attention of Clubs’ scouts? Do we debate the effect playground squabbles and petty politics have had on our performances? Do we question the wisdom of a lone stiker formation in a must win game ?
Do we have any hope for the future of our National game while those who presided over the biggest sporting scandal in Scotland’s history are still at the helm, embarrassing us all with their financial shenaningans and feeble cover-ups?
Any chance we could debate this on BBC Scotland Newsnight ? Or are we to be side-tracked by the ramblings of a GEF, reciting his lines as handed to him by Murray and Ogilvie ?
All very entertaining, but we need to sort this out faster, there’s football at stake here.
Would be interested – if – CW gave real news on LBG or SDM or GW or Betts or Ellis or GS or WS or CB or Merchant Turnaround or Jerome Pensions or the famous securities or Octopus or HMRC or guarantees to TU or how much money did he really have or have not or [fill in as required]
Just as examples you understand to be expected in a “wide ranging interview” 😉
Do I see a switcheroo being put forward that is not going to happen,I agree CW and CG have always known one another and met at a spivs xmass party, prob years ago in a phone box in Peckham,this will be an attempt to speed up the sale of the share issue before the big bad Craigy boy tries to worm his way back in [no intention of doing so] but it will scare the money out of the bears piggy banks faster than snow of a dyke on a hot summer day,another nothing to see here story for us guys but lets watch the govan bunker mentality explode onto the streets.
We all knew whyte had mortgaged the season tickets.
We all knew murray had mortgaged the catering revenue.
We all knew ally blew the euro millions and league cup revenue.
We all knew they had no banking facilities.
We all knew whyte increased salaries to davis, whittaker and macgregor etc.
We all knew this before oct 2011.
We all knew that rfc were bust and heading for the mincer.
We all know that whyte is a liar.
We all need to figure out why whyte has chosen now to speak out.
I seriously doubt that he has tuped over to our side.
Long-term readers will recall that corsica posted on RTC about our hero meeting the spiv a couple of years ago and then again early on in the process with our friend Ellis.
To us, the more interesting link here ‘though has always been King…who has real motive to hide (and continue to hide) behind a faceless investment vehicle given his “discussions” with the South African tax authorities…admittedly, however, we couldn’t find any evidence beyond meetings.
So our hero rides into town claiming links to the spiv? Just as the IPO is running?
Here’s a wild guess…hordes of sevco fans (headed up by, say, a real Rangers legend…I don’t know…someone like a retired manager) rush to buy shares to take over the club and stop the hero/spiv scam, underwritten perhaps by someone who can’t legally buy a car in the UK and can therefore take the risk of a huge loss? The authorities (SFA, SPL, SFL, Scottish Government, etc) dismayed at such a blatant (but, crucially, legal) scam back the buy-out to protect the fans “who are the lifeblood” of the game. Oh, and given that there has “obviously been a co-ordinated and concerted effort to commit such a scam”, the authorities will determine that sevco fans and RFC have been punished enough and we all need to move on for the sake of the game.
Just to remind us all – despite very public threats and engagement of legal teams, not a single legal action has been launched in court (bar D&P v Collyer Bristow) amongst every single protagonist in this farce. Also known as the Max Clifford/David Beckham defence – throw legal threats around until the press drop the story out of lack of interest and/or fear.
Check out the advert on the http://www.rangers.co.uk/
“Everything’s gonna be all white: 2012/13 away kit on sale now”
TSFM says:
Wednesday, October 17, 2012 at 12:53
I think this is designed to reinforce Green’s cred with the bears.
+=======================================================================
If that is the case then the questions that follow are
1)Why would CW want to do such a thing?
2)What has he got to gain/loose by getting involved in talking up Green to the Bears fans?
3) As he clealry doesn’t give a hoot what people think about him, it can only be for financial gain. Can’t it?
4) If so where is he going to get his pay day from?
BBC just has the word Whyte in the headline, missed the words “another load of Barry…….. from Ibrokes”.
The drama, wish you would all stop spoiling the script for me within seconds.
Whats that coming over the hill……. is it a Walter…….. is it a Waltttteeeeeerrrrrr.
I think Craigies pissed that his “Share(Charge)” is being dilluted by the share offer and is hacked off.
Some of the Berz have been discussing non payment of taxes….thought I’d cheer you up some more 🙂
Mikhailichenko, on 16 October 2012 – 06:16 PM, said:
They have done nothing wrong, legally. CW on the other hand unlawfully withheld taxes due. Starbucks uk operation has posted losses every year it has operated in the uk. This is mainly due to clever accounting and ensures they don’t have to pay Corperation Tax. As far as I am aware they have paid thei NI and PAYE contributions as is required of them. Nothing illegal at all as far as I am aware. Whether it is immoral is a totally separate issue.
Making a comparison between Starbucks and Rangers’ situation is a non starter for me.
its some loophole they have abused then ? If you make losses each year you should be down the pan
bawsbustedanatha says:
Wednesday, October 17, 2012 at 11:54
—-
Grateful.
I’ll try to join the 21st century and get into this twitter ( which, incidentally, I think is a stupid name).
I seriously doubt that he has tuped over to our side.
____________________________________
More like he sees a tupping coming.
This Mikhailichenko guy gets it….
It remains to be seen if we have done anything wrong
Like it or not we as a club were owned by CW. He done wrong therefore the club done wrong.
delbhoy
There is no point in worrying about the National Team, until the problems at the bottom are sorted out. The first step has to be cleaning up Scottish Football, only then will the vast majority of clubs, (who are run by people like Turnbull Hutton), have the confidence to properly engage in the much needed reconstruction. Without the Glasnost there can be no Perestroika.
It will take years, but, in the long run, its the only hope for any sort of recovery.
Yep, he definately gets it….
He did do wrong, but he and his company are liable not The Club.
Mikhailichenko says
I think you will find the club has been the most liable throughout this whole saga. It would appear the previous owner/ company has no liability by the inaction of the authority’s.
The IPO isn’t going ahead, Green will use all this Whyte garbage to rally the bears, wagons in a circle, and all that. He will suddenly have discovered that the IPO route might result in unreliable outsiders (even tims!) buying into the magic circle, so on reflection, and given the huge expressions of support already received from the true bears, he will now sell privately to selected fans of proven loyalty only.
These chumps will be bursting the buttons off their shirts as their chests swell with pride, when they receive their personalised letter of invitation from the saintly Charles Green, the anointed saviour of the peepil, to subscribe to a private offering. He might even up the ante to £1000- I wouldn’t put it past him.
That solves all Charles’ little problems, like a prospectus giving hard information on who owns what, and other such tedious technicalities. We can only watch and wonder. How can a complete outsider have managed to wrap the whole of beardom around his little finger in just 4 short months? You’ve really got to admire the performance.
john clarke says:
Wednesday, October 17, 2012 at 13:53
No worries John….twit 🙂
Should we call it twatting? Then we’d all be 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂
wottpi says:
Wednesday, October 17, 2012 at 11:16
In terms of how much people the Bears are willing to shell out a poll on Rangers Media gives an unscientific look at the ‘average fan’
£500 (94 votes [55.62%])
£600 (4 votes [2.37%])
£700 (1 votes [0.59%])
£800 (0 votes [0.00%])
£900 (0 votes [0.00%])
£1,000 (45 votes [26.63%])
£1,500 (3 votes [1.78%])
£2,000 (4 votes [2.37%])
£2,500 (1 votes [0.59%])
£3000 (2 votes [1.18%])
£3,500 (0 votes [0.00%])
£4,000 (0 votes [0.00%])
£5,000 (6 votes [3.55%])
£6,000 (0 votes [0.00%])
£7,000 (0 votes [0.00%])
£8,000 (2 votes [1.18%])
£9,000 (1 votes [0.59%])
£10,000 (2 votes [1.18%])
£10,000+ (4 votes [2.37%])
If those percentages are factored up to the 7500 reported and the 4 votes for £10,000+ is set at £15,000 for arguments sake that raises £11.1million and the average donation is closer to £1500 a go.
Therefore taking into account history and a poll of T’Rangers fans maybe £15m isn’t far off.
However the proof of the pudding will be in the eating when it comes to the time when a prospectus is issued and people have to part with their cash.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I’m running a sweep on the amount raised and my own guess is that the amount will be zero when it becomes clear the assets are owned elsewhere and will be subject to court action(s) the share issue will be abandoned.
Come on you Google Eyed Freak – Craigie Whyte I’m relying on you to win this sweepstake
john clarke says:
Wednesday, October 17, 2012 at 13:53
————————
Get on Twitter, John.
It’s the perfect medium for this pantomime.
And the medium, after all, is the message.
neepheid says:
Wednesday, October 17, 2012 at 13:56
‘… The IPO isn’t going ahead, ..’
—
I’m inclined to agree.
There’s no way that Cenkos would assist in the preparation of a pretendy prospectus.
I’m sure their advice has been that a private share offering is the only way to go.They’ll take their fee, and cut and run.
Anybody seen SDM at an airport, incidentally? He’ll have to get his timing right, I would think, if he’s not already too late.
Graham Spiers @SpiersGraham
Craig Whyte connection to Charles Green and his to Duff & Phellps about to break Can rangers make it to end of season? IMO no admin beckons
john clarke says:
Wednesday, October 17, 2012 at 14:12
So that’s why May resiled from the European Arrest Warrant 😉
scapaflow14 says:
Wednesday, October 17, 2012 at 14:20
—
So that’s why May resiled from the European Arrest Warrant’
—–
That’s maybe scaling- up the conspiracy just a tad 🙂
RM claims Graham Spiers Twitter a/c is a fake.
Edgar Blamm (@EdgarBlamm) says:
Wednesday, October 17, 2012 at 14:05
1 0 Rate This
john clarke says:
Wednesday, October 17, 2012 at 13:53
————————
Get on Twitter, John.
—————
Too right. Go for it Mr Clarke. There was a bit of a hoo-ha last night between RTC and someone from the Rangers Standard called John Gow. And today it’s buzzing again at http://twitter.com/rangerstaxcase with CW stuff.
You don’t have to join twitter to read along. But agreed, it is confusing for the novice. However, you can click a link to expand each tweet if there have been specific replies to that tweet, which allows you to view a twitter conversation or thread. The short burst format is great for getting concise thoughts across.
RM are correct on that score!!!
bawsbustedanatha says:
Wednesday, October 17, 2012 at 14:19
Graham Spiers @SpiersGraham
Craig Whyte connection to Charles Green and his to Duff & Phellps about to break Can rangers make it to end of season? IMO no admin beckons
………………………………………………………………………
Thats confusing, does he mean.
Can rangers make it to end of season? In my opinion, no admin beckons
Or
Can rangers make it to end of season? In my opinion no AND Admin beckons.
What is going on here? This is one tangled mess. Share issue looked to be failing, Whyte now ensuring it will fail, Green has nowhere to go but out the door, Wally Smith the new hero in town? Until he is exposed in investigations himself? Could Wally Smith pass a fit and proper persons test? Not under a clean SFA he couldn’t. The current regime of the SFA and SPL have surely had its day. Turnbull Hutton – Your Carriage Awaits.
smartie1947 says:
Wednesday, October 17, 2012 at 14:33
Could be.
I’ve just tweeted Phil to tell him I don’t see the tweet on GS account!
The genuine twitter account is @GrahamSpiers
Should’ve said. I got it from Phil’s account.
Rangers: Craig Whyte defends his Ibrox reign to BBC Scotland
By Chris McLaughlin
Senior Football Reporter, BBC Scotland “I was driving the train when it crashed, but I didn’t set it on its course.” The words of venture capitalist Craig Whyte after I asked him who was to blame for the Rangers debacle.
The words of a man keen to speak out and explain his part in Scottish football’s longest-running and most ruinous saga.
A man who has become a figure of hate and even of ridicule since his ill-fated takeover of the Ibrox club last year.
Whyte left Ibrox under a cloud with the club in administration
Whyte feels he has become the Rangers bogeyman, an easy target, but has the criticism been justified?
He failed to pay VAT and PAYE and ultimately led the club into administration.
He granted me an interview and promised to be open and honest with no subject off the table.
We met in central London just yards from where he first hatched his controversial plan to take over one of the biggest club’s in British football.
He is no fan of the media spotlight and self-conscious about how he comes across on television.
He told me he had nothing to lose. I was sceptical.
He kept his promise and was surprisingly frank, hitting back as I probed on subjects like the season ticket deal with Ticketus, former owner Sir David Murray, PAYE, administrator Duff and Phelps and the role of the Scottish Premier League.
Who knew what and when did it all go wrong?
There was an apology for the fans – a denial of lies and questions about morality.
There were surprising revelations about how present chief executive Charles Green ended up in charge at Ibrox and discussions about just exactly how much he himself made from the deal.
Bought for a pound and sold for a pound? Whyte was pressed, but what did he say?
Bogeyman or the man to blame? Make your own mind up.
More to follow from BBC Scotland’s exclusive interview with Craig Whyte.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19979004
Agrajag says:
Wednesday, October 17, 2012 at 12:54
No, you are a troll though.
Why someone would prod other people’s religious beliefs, which you did, whilst at the same time saying it wasn’t proper to this forum is beyond me. You then go to the bother of making making the earlier post, on your issues with the New Testament and the flaws you perceive therein. Clearly trying to illicit a response.
——
Fair comment. OP poorly worded by me. My sincere apologies to anyone who felt prodded. 🙂
It was by no means intended as a trolling exercise. Trolls generally post in order to goad people into a reaction. At worst, that decent chap JC (no, not the resurrected one, our one) poked me into replying.
I genuinely do not believe that many of the things held as Christian dogma are based in fact. The balance of probabilities is there for anyone who cares to look into it. The Bible is incontestably full of flaws and inconsistencies.
Which doesn’t make me an atheist, by the way. Nor does it mean I disrespect Christians or Jesus. It does mean, however, that I don’t believe today’s Christians have anything much to do with the real, historic Jesus and what he stood for. Not trolling, just stating my own conclusions.
Anyway, sorry TSFM. No religion, I know. Much more on-topic stuff about to wash all this away, hopefully. 🙂
Apologies all round, and tinfoil TD hat on.
I now have a twitter account.
And I am now so many different people with so many feckin aliases and email addresses, that I’ll probably end up talking to myself and answering back! Norman Bates ain’t in it.
Thanks for the encouragement.
Now, whom shall I follow,follow? 🙂
bawsbustedanatha says:
Wednesday, October 17, 2012 at 13:52
==================================
There’s an old “in joke” amongst bean counters.
Owner – How much is my net profit
Accountant – How much do you want it to be.
It isn’t far from the truth.
It could only happen in Scotland. (apologies if it has already been posted)
Seems we will have to monitor the ladies game as well!
—————————————————
Official statement:
THE Celtic Women’s team have been thrown out of the Scottish Cup after they were unable to field a team for their quarter-final match with Glasgow City.
The Hoops had 11 players called up for Scotland U17 international duty at the same time the cup-tie was scheduled for, and four of those players were on the club’s Scottish Cup squad list which was submitted at the start of the competition. They were thus unavailable to play for Celtic.
On top of that, six other players are missing through long-term injuries. It meant that Celtic only had 10 available players for the game.
The club asked Scottish Women’s Football for the match to be re-scheduled, but despite that request being initially agreed to, it was rejected following an appeal by quarter-final opponents, Glasgow City.
A Celtic spokesperson said: “We were unable to field a team due to four Scottish international call-ups and significant injuries to six other players, thus leaving us with only 10 available players. We made it clear throughout that we were not asking for a change of date because of injured players.
“Clearly, given the circumstances, with only 10 players available, we asked Scottish Women’s Football (SWF) to re-schedule the match and awaited a response from the SWF for more than a week.
“They initially informed us that they were willing to re-schedule the match, but they then told the club that it was not possible following an appeal by Glasgow City.
“We are extremely concerned with the handling of this matter and we are very disappointed that common sense did not prevail.”
Of course the problem is that having not trusted one word that CW has said in the past. Without even hearing in full what he has to say we now want to believe him 100%.
Mike Farrell @mikefstv
Rangers oldco are to appoint liquidators BDO to oversee winding up of company as a ‘matter of urgency’ http://bit.ly/RAVguA
Expand Reply Retweet Favorite
rab says:
Wednesday, October 17, 2012 at 13:20
61 1 Rate This
We all knew whyte had mortgaged the season tickets.
We all knew murray had mortgaged the catering revenue.
We all knew ally blew the euro millions and league cup revenue.
We all knew they had no banking facilities.
We all knew whyte increased salaries to davis, whittaker and macgregor etc.
We all knew this before oct 2011.
We all knew that rfc were bust and heading for the mincer.
We all know that whyte is a liar.
We all need to figure out why whyte has chosen now to speak out.
I seriously doubt that he has tuped over to our side.
——————————————————————————————————————-
We all know SDM still involved
We all know they had no licence to play in CL
We all know conditional licence invented by the brothers Grimm
We all know CO has shares in Rangers (in wifes name)
We all know CO had an EBT
We all know SFA/SPL not doing their job
We all know sevco should have had to apply for league status
We all know MSM know like us but will NEVER question.
Go on BBC shame them.
I am utterly baffled right now. Not a clue what is going on here!
Who has put Whyte up to this and what is to be gained?
Is it a deflection?
A falling out amonst thieves?
A desperate attempt to stymie the AIM launch by Green himself as the fallout will “force” him into a private share issue?
An inkling that the D and p admin has been blown by LH who is about to blow the whistle on the entire scam and Whyte wants everyone else to sink with him?
??? ( take your pick of a million scenarios methinks!)
Not a clue what’s going on – A bit like watching Donnie Darko looks great and grips you but utterly meaningless, thoughgreat watching – can’t see it ending well for bears though, but can see it ending in the fairly near future – who comes crashing down with them though?
Funtime again!!!!
Liquidators are to be appointed to oversee the winding up of Rangers oldco as a “matter of urgency”.
Administrators Duff and Phelps confirmed creditors had approved the end of their term at RFC 2012 plc, which was formerly The Rangers Football Club plc.
On Wednesday, the insolvency firm said it would now put forward a winding up application to the Court of Session to make way for the appointment of neutral practitioners BDO, which will be put in place at the insisitence of Rangers’ biggest creditor, HM Revenue and Customs.
Duff and Phelps, formerly MCR, was initially involved with former oldco Rangers owner Craig Whyte on his attempt to takeover the club, which he completed in May last year.
The firm was called in as administrators at Ibrox in February this year after the club had run up debts of up to £134m, including a tax bill of £94.4m, according to Duff and Phelps’ final report to the hundreds owed money by Rangers.
Joint administrator Paul Clark said: “Creditors have today given their approval for the Administrators to bring the administration process to an end and to place the company into liquidation. As a result, we as administrators have instructed our legal team to prepare the necessary application for lodging in the Court of Session as a matter of urgency.
“Should the application be approved, then Malcolm Cohen and James Bernard Stephen of BDO will be appointed liquidators of RFC 2012 plc, and will undertake the process of liquidation of the ‘oldco’ company and the continued recovery of funds for creditors. This will not affect the current operations of The Rangers Football Club in any way as it is a completely separate entity.”
Time for the relevant authorities to put the liquidation process on hold and a clear and concise investigation by the Police.
Long Time Lurker says:
Wednesday, October 17, 2012 at 13:32
Check out the advert on the http://www.rangers.co.uk/
“Everything’s gonna be all white: 2012/13 away kit on sale now”
____________________________________________________
Curious that the match v Queens Park has the tagline “Original Glasgow Derby”
“Since at least as early as 1840 ‘derby’ has been used as a noun in English to denote any kind of sporting contest. A local derby is just a sporting contest between local rivals”.
Queens Park had played Thistle F.C & Cowlairs many times before Oldco’s formation, but in terms of a “local derby”, I would argue that Dumbreck (cited as Queens Park’s first Scottish FA match) is closer to Hampden than Ibrox.
Just sayin like!
http://local.stv.tv/glasgow/195280-rangers-oldco-to-appoint-liquidators-bdo-to-oversee-winding-up/
Liquidators are to be appointed to oversee the winding up of Rangers oldco as a “matter of urgency”.
Administrators Duff and Phelps confirmed creditors had approved the end of their term at RFC 2012 plc, which was formerly The Rangers Football Club plc.
On Wednesday, the insolvency firm said it would now put forward a winding up application to the Court of Session to make way for the appointment of neutral practitioners BDO, which will be put in place at the insisitence of Rangers’ biggest creditor, HM Revenue and Customs.
Duff and Phelps, formerly MCR, was initially involved with former oldco Rangers owner Craig Whyte on his attempt to takeover the club, which he completed in May last year.
The firm was called in as administrators at Ibrox in February this year after the club had run up debts of up to £134m, including a tax bill of £94.4m, according to Duff and Phelps’ final report to the hundreds owed money by Rangers.
Joint administrator Paul Clark said: “Creditors have today given their approval for the Administrators to bring the administration process to an end and to place the company into liquidation. As a result, we as administrators have instructed our legal team to prepare the necessary application for lodging in the Court of Session as a matter of urgency.
“Should the application be approved, then Malcolm Cohen and James Bernard Stephen of BDO will be appointed liquidators of RFC 2012 plc, and will undertake the process of liquidation of the ‘oldco’ company and the continued recovery of funds for creditors. This will not affect the current operations of The Rangers Football Club in any way as it is a completely separate entity.”
A wee plea from me 🙂
I’m off to work in a bit and, as it’s in England, BBC Scotland’s not on work’s TV so I’ll miss the Whyte interviews. Won’t be home until tommorow morning to see recording on own TV so I’d be gratefull if someone could put an update on here of the major points from Reporting Scotland and Newsnight Scotland. Also, my old mobile isn’t that great, especially with internet, and I can’t get many sites, ie BBC Scotland online, as they are mostly too big, but joyfully I can get TSFM 🙂 so if someone could copy and paste what they say is appearing later, about our hero, on the BBC website I’d again be very gratefull. Hope it’s something we can all sit back and enjoy 🙂
john clarke says:
Wednesday, October 17, 2012 at 14:56
Now, whom shall I follow,follow?
——————
Too many to mention. First off, follow @rangerstaxcase. Also, @THE_TBK, who’s a frighteningly prolific tweeter.
What’s your moniker? I’ll send a tweet out to help you get established.
chris shields (@chrisshields10) says:
Wednesday, October 17, 2012 at 11:22
4 1 i
Rate This
allyjambo says:
Wednesday, October 17, 2012 at 11:10
————————————————
Pyrrhic.
_________________________________________
Really knew that, Chris (not); just didn’t want to appear a smart ass (joking) 🙂
Charlie responds to Craigy’s claims.
RANGERS Chief Executive Charles Green has reacted to news today that Craig Whyte has made certain claims in an interview with the BBC.
In the interview to be broadcast later today Craig Whyte has claimed he introduced Charles Green to Duff and Phelps as the administrators searched for a buyer for Rangers.
The Rangers Chief Executive said: “Yet again Craig Whyte’s version of events paints a misleading picture of what actually happened and it’s regrettable that the BBC is providing him with such a platform.
“The facts are that direct contact was made by our consortium with Craig Whyte in the first instance as it appeared at that time that his shares would have to be secured in order for any purchase of the Club to progress.
“I was not present when contact was initially made but subsequently met Craig Whyte who introduced me to the administrator.
“I had no previous association with Craig Whyte and it is misleading to suggest he ‘brought us in’.
“I was brought to the transaction by Imran Ahmad following Duff and Phelps contacting Zeus Capital in February, due to their experience in the football sector.
http://www.rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/item/2423-charles-green-statement
“I was driving the train when it crashed, but I didn’t set it on its course.” The words of venture capitalist Craig Whyte after I asked him who was to blame for the Rangers debacle.
Paul Baxendale Walker said “No, because if I build you a bus and it’s designed according to specifications, I’m not responsible for who you carry in the bus. I can’t stop you driving into a brick wall and I can’t stop you running over an old lady. That’s not what the bus is for, and that’s the key, isn’t it”
Building and driving Buses and Trains. Both types of vehicles crashing.
I’m confused. No wonder they are in a mess I thought they were running a football club.
wottpi says:
Wednesday, October 17, 2012 at 15:13
Of course the problem is that having not trusted one word that CW has said in the past. Without even hearing in full what he has to say we now want to believe him 100%.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
To err is human to forgive divine – I say give the fella a second chance. Somebody’s raided his biscuit tin and he’s angry.
A Charlie reacts to a bit Craigie Whyte:
http://www.rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/item/2423-charles-green-statement
ordinaryfan says:
Wednesday, October 17, 2012 at 15:20
2
0
Rate This
Time for the relevant authorities to put the liquidation process on hold and a clear and concise investigation by the Police.
==================================================================
Totally disagree. No evidence to date that any police enquiries are going anywhere fast. Leave it to BDO, who should at least be able to ascertain true ownership of all assets relatively soon. Any criminality can wait until financials resolved.
mdccclxxxviii says:
Wednesday, October 17, 2012 at 15:33
0 0 Rate This
Charlie responds to Craigy’s claims.
——————–
Sorry mate, you’d posted just before I added my bit of Craig Whyte 🙂
Edgar Blamm (@EdgarBlamm) says:
Wednesday, October 17, 2012 at 15:29
—-
Please do, @cutheltonargyle
ah, bear on bear action between Green and Whyte – great evening viewing ahead
wonder if either of them will actually put specific DATES on any of these events/meetings – this ambiguity things is fun eh?