Naming the Rose

ByTrisidium

Naming the Rose

We spend an inordinate amount of time on this blog arguing about what the re-emergent Rangers should be called. It is a rather circular debate with no way of finding any consensus. The dispute between Rangers (“The Rangerists”) or The Rangers or Sevco (“The Sevconians”) and its claim to be the club that was formed in the 19th century is spurious. Whichever way you look at it, the continuity of the “brand” is undeniable and as long those who wish to keep buying that package are satisfied that the wrapping is authentic – where’s the harm?

The red herring in the argument is that “history” is important. To the average football fan, it is nothing of the kind. As a Celtic fan myself, and a bit of a student of the history of the club, I am constantly dismayed by the Thousand Yard Stare I get from your average Celtic fan who is confronted with the names of people who contributed significantly to the club’s identity. Key figures like Sandy McMahon, Jimmy Delaney, Jimmy McGrory and (God help us) John Thomson rarely elicit recognition.

Modern football fans who live in the instant gratification society of the the WWW and mobile communications may pay lip service to their clubs’ history, but that’s not what gives the modern football fan wears as his badge of honour. That is a commodity often erroneously confused with history – the bragging rights associated with the trophy haul.

The ability to claim that “we have more titles than you” is far more valuable to a supporter than which 19th century attacking centre-back won the Scottish Cup with a last minute header; and the value of said cup wins is heavily weighted in favour of the most recent (save for the honourable exception of the European successes).

The maintenance of that illusion of superiority is crucial if Rangers fans are to believe that their club is still Rangers. Perhaps in time they may even come to fully believe it themselves, but the cataract of column inches devoted to propagating that myth, both from the MSM and from information outlets controlled by Charles Green’s organisation, betrays a lack of total belief by the chief Bear-existentialists. Protesting too much may not be subtle, but that never put off your average fitba’ man either.

The upshot though is this. There is a belief – or at least a hope – amongst Rangerists that the continuity argument holds. They will call the new club Rangers. Fans of other clubs who make up the vast majority of the Sevconian tendency, believe nothing of the kind. They will call it something else.

Many will remind Rangerists that the old club died, and this is factually correct (or at least will be very soon). Rangerists will counter that the Rangers ethos lives on at Ibrox, and despite the worrying overtones (for some) contained in that statement, that is also factually correct.

Rangerists will also point out, as Rangers fans on this blog already have, that the SPL bent over backwards to assist the continuity of the club in order to minimise the financial consequences for Scottish football, and that the SFL too, have agreed that they are the same club.

Why? Simply because Scottish Football thinks it needs to help perpetrate they illusion of continuity to avoid the loss of thousands of paying customers to the game altogether.

So round one has gone to the Rangerists, with the Sevconians pretty much taking an eight-count.

So is the name thing important? I don’t think it is of critical importance. The name in itself doesn’t matter, but to merely agree that everything is as before is to join forces with the MSM, SFA & SPL who have sought to give RFC and their tax theft a pass.

Whatever happens in the future though, the illusion hasn’t worked completely. The Sevconians’ wish to call the new club by a different name was for the purpose of making it synonymous with tax evasion, however the name Rangers now evokes exactly that response. There is now a discernible pause when people mention Rangers. A pause that reflects on the dis-service they did to the country, and to the game of football in Scotland.

Which brings us to the really important point. Throughout this saga rules have been bent. Conflicted individuals, alleged to have been involved in the tax and registration scam and its subsequent cover-up, have remained in positions of authority and power, despite being under a cloud throughout. The media have been complicit, except in rare cases, in allowing the wrong-doing to go unquestioned, actively campaigning for rules not to be applied.

What we have been saying all along is this. Please play the game by the rules, and do not manufacture special cases for the financially powerful.

Call Rangers whatever you wish, but deal with their transgressions appropriately in the spirit of sporting fairness, and within the framework of the existing rules. That is the least – and most – we expect. We don’t ask for much. Just give us back some pride in our sport .

About the author

Trisidium administrator

Trisidium is a Dunblane businessman with a keen interest in Scottish Football. He is a Celtic fan, although the demands of modern-day parenting have seen him less at games and more as a taxi service for his kids.

2,065 Comments so far

paulsatimPosted on1:29 pm - Oct 8, 2012


Some of the inhabitants over on FF at least have some doubts over share issue!

Originally posted by Steadfast
Shares in what? Last time we were told we were buying shares in the club. Now we are to invest in Mr Green’s company?

Originally posted by Denver_Ba
£500 is a bit too much for me at the moment so a no just now. Plus I’d like to hear more actual details on it. What we’ve heard over the last week or two is fluff from a salesman.

Originally posted by kirkieger
Green’s already said all the money will go to the club not investors, and for that reason I’ll be giving it serious consideration.

Originally posted by buster
Green will say anything today “to sell” something but tomorrow he may forget what he had said/promised.

He´s got a track record of this in his short time at Ibrox.

Originally posted by Hal B. Goode
I’m trying to gauge the opinion of the support for Green here.

Seems like many are supportive of Green and his battles with the authorities, possible moonbeams about new jerseys, US tie-ins, Apple renaming rights etc, but maybe not so much to chuck another £500 into it.

The fans have been phenomenal in buying up season tickets, buying the jerseys, travelling to away games, but this £500 minimum in this lead-up to the festive season will see many of us pass up the opportunity.

I doubt that Green will raise the capital he hopes for.

Originally posted by Denver_Ba
£500 before Christmas…..

I’m guessing he will wait till after the festive period?

Originally posted by chubbybrown
im waiting to get shot down with my post here….

why is green rushing it? its not because he wants to give the club to the fans its because there is a chance that the old rangers plc will come back to life and he will be left being out of pocket to the tune of £6-7m and at best only have an option to merge with the PLC rangers to own maybe 49% of the company. in that circumstance who would buy shares from him?

there is no benefit to have the share issue now for the club or the team or us fans. the only one who will benefit is Green and blue pitch holdings.

the club according to him is financially stable and in better condition than the rest of scottish football.

the team cant be strengthened as embargo in place so no predicted outlay.

why doesn’t he wait till next year? my hunch is theres something in the wind that he knows about and he wants to extract money now rather than lose the chance later. [B](no pulling the wool over your eyes, sherlock!)[/B]

so as a shareholder in the PLC i will not be buying shares in Mr Greens company and i dont think any of us should until we know his words are not just bluster to suck us in to lining his pockets.

Originally posted by blueintheface
Where exactly will this money be going?

If it’s going to be invested into the team, is there any need to have it now?

Originally posted by Number_Eight
If the RST go ahead with a collective investment model, and they are planning something along these lines, I’ll chip in, but I’m not going to invest as an individual shareholder.

I’ve been an individual shareholder.

It didn’t work out very well.

Originally posted by berkshiretrueblue
Right now I am a million miles away from buying shares and that will remain the case until I see a detailed prospectus and what the plans are for the future of the Club both on and off the park.

A substantial amount of money is being asked for in the share issue. I would expect the vast majority of this reinvested into the club primarily by way of developing the infrastructure and increasing the potential to generate new revenue streams.

I would also expect to see some details of what the plans are to develop and sustain a successful team on the park.

Originally posted by bloo
och i cannot resist to be a shareholder again,i’m in for the minimum.

Originally posted by Detective Vic Mackey
I don’t have a spare £500 I’m afraid

Originally posted by Teddyjohn
I think that the share issue would be better postponed until early 2013 and by then there may abe a feel good factor being top of the league and all that. I would also like to know more about what the money will be used for in terms of investment and also in terms of work to Ibrox which is badly needed however I also want to know:

1. How much is Charles Green investing including other members of the board because if they invest either nothing or minuscule amounts then does that not tell us something? On the other hand if they invest relatively large amounts then that would be a very positive leading indicator.

2. I also want to know prospective financial forecasts over the next couple of years.

3. Who are the major investors and by that I mean that have stakes of over 3% as that is the standard Stock Market requirement.

4. After the flotation is finished what will the overall estimated value of Rangers be in terms of market value and is the issue underwritten?

Originally posted by bearfaecumbernauld
Not sure yet. Was a shareholder in the PLC but I agree with other posters what is the rush to launch an IPO?

More detail is required before I commit.

Originally posted by WokinghamBear
You are not alone. I am generally supportive of Green but the rush for this IPO has me very suspicious, the season tickets sales apparently provided the running cost funds for the season, there is no transfer window and so no fees or wages to sandbag for.

I’m keen to invest but the motivation behind it is not clear enough to me. I need to hear from Green why this is being looked at now.

Originally posted by Rangers2011
Not for me at the moment. Far too many actions have to come true from Green before i would concider it.

Also i will not put money in until there is a clear plan for the future of the club in terms of football and developement. I have contributed enough over the years for us to make not 1% of progress.

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ExiledCeltPosted on1:34 pm - Oct 8, 2012


Angus1983/Goosy

Reminds me of the time I spent in the RoS in the land registry – there was some bloke who bought some large peaty bog up in Sutherland or somewhere – anyway – he found out the minimum size of land that RoS would register and os for 1000 pounds or whatever he could get, sell portions of land to Scottish emigrees in USA/Canada/Austrailia/NZ etc so they would receive an authentic RoS title, an land writ, a map and whatever else he threw in – all so they could hang the title deed on the wall and boast that they owned land in Scotland,

Bad news is that RoS got wise to it and stopped the issuance of title deeds – so no need for anyone to try this now!

He definitely made a few quid on this venture – am sure CG will make more!!!!!

The market is out there – cue the no of emails from HK widows or Nigerian bank managers trying to get favours……pending your banking details and a deposit of course.

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Livia BurlandoPosted on1:35 pm - Oct 8, 2012


Charlie Brown says:
Monday, October 8, 2012 at 12:57
…………………………………………………
I take your overall point, but ‘bottom feeding minnows’ ? is that really what you meant to say?

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Charlie BrownPosted on1:38 pm - Oct 8, 2012


Livia Burlando says:
Monday, October 8, 2012 at 13:35

No not really as every fitba club is valuable and important however my post was aimed primarily at the Rangerists and people of WaTP mentality that might read this forum. 🙂

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paulsatimPosted on1:38 pm - Oct 8, 2012


Livia Burlando says:
Monday, October 8, 2012 at 13:35
0 0 Rate This
Charlie Brown says:
Monday, October 8, 2012 at 12:57
…………………………………………………
I take your overall point, but ‘bottom feeding minnows’ ? is that really what you meant to say?
=================================

Is that like the wee fish that do pedicures, but a wee bit higher up?

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paulmac2Posted on1:39 pm - Oct 8, 2012


angus1983 says:
Monday, October 8, 2012 at 13:15
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I’m sure there are supporters at every club that if you offered them a Jobbie on a stick they’d buy it..

However I’m not sure how many times you can offer a jobbie on a stick to the supporters at SEVCO before it is considered as taking liberties?

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Carfins Finest. (@edunne58)Posted on1:57 pm - Oct 8, 2012


paulmac2 says:

Monday, October 8, 2012 at 13:39

1

0

Rate This

angus1983 says:
Monday, October 8, 2012 at 13:15
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I’m sure there are supporters at every club that if you offered them a Jobbie on a stick they’d buy it..

However I’m not sure how many times you can offer a jobbie on a stick to the supporters at SEVCO before it is considered as taking liberties?

————-=====———-======

Yes but this time the trfc fans will need to ask ‘Are we being offered shares in the Jobbie or the actual stick?’

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posmillPosted on2:03 pm - Oct 8, 2012


Paulsatim 13:29

There go the bears embarrassing Scotland again…everyone will think we really are a bunch of skinflints :-). Seriously though, those are some of the most rational thoughts I’ve read yet from that source. Amazing how the wallet focuses the mind. Time to up your game Chaz.

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neepheidPosted on2:06 pm - Oct 8, 2012


angus1983 says:
Monday, October 8, 2012 at 13:15

What the subscribers will most probably get for £500 is a perfectly legal share certificate for a number of shares in the company that owns TRFC. However these will no doubt be a special class of shares that carry no voting rights, so that Charles Green and his investors retain total control of the company.

The money raised (I’m guessing £20m+) immediately comes under the control of those who hold the voting shares in the company. They can then cut and run, if that’s what they want to do, or use the money to pay the bills for a while (unlikely, why should they?).

This is all perfectly legal. Green’s “consortium” will have put their money in almost entirely through loans, not shares (they aren’t totally stupid!), so they can pay themselves off once the £20m arrives. And you can be 100% certain that ownership of Ibrox and Murray Park does not remain with any company that the fans are offered shares in. The properties will have gone to another company owned by Ticketus/Whyte/Murray/Private Investors (take your pick) to which TRFC will, now or in the future, be paying a hefty rent.

Because this is a private share sale of shares in a private company, no prospectus is required. Green will give no information regarding the company, its shareholders, and what it owns. He doesn’t have to. You can ask if you like, but you won’t be told. Caveat Emptor is the rule in these situations, buyer beware. The FSA offer no protection. The shares will not be tradeable on any market- you can sell them privately only if you can personally find a buyer and agree terms.

Although paying £500 for a share certificate in these circumstances is simple lunacy, the bears will see this as a loyalty test, and will be climbing over each other to give £500 to Green. “Whit dae ye want for Christmas son? Em, an ipad and a Wii, paw. Well ye’re gettin a Gers share certificate instead. Whit a lucky laddie!” Sad but so true. Green has the bears worked up to the point where he’s wishing he’d made it £1000 a head instead. Because he’d have got it.

In my view, this private share sale is the endgame for Green. He wants out early, and this is his escape route, leaving behind a company with no property of its own, no cash and a huge annual rent bill. Can TRFC survive on that basis? I say no chance.

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bogsdolloxPosted on2:09 pm - Oct 8, 2012


Carfins Finest. (@edunne58) says:
Monday, October 8, 2012 at 13:57

paulmac2 says:

Monday, October 8, 2012 at 13:39

1

0

Rate This

angus1983 says:
Monday, October 8, 2012 at 13:15
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I’m sure there are supporters at every club that if you offered them a Jobbie on a stick they’d buy it..

However I’m not sure how many times you can offer a jobbie on a stick to the supporters at SEVCO before it is considered as taking liberties?

————-=====———-======

Yes but this time the trfc fans will need to ask ‘Are we being offered shares in the Jobbie or the actual stick?’
=========================================================================

Either way, it looks like a bum deal.

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wottpiPosted on2:13 pm - Oct 8, 2012


briggsbhoy says:
Monday, October 8, 2012 at 12:13

Allyjambo 8 oct at 10.58am

OT

Heard a good one about a do at Easter Road where a young lad was introduced to Famous Five Legend Lawrie Reilly. (I am guessing having a stand named after you and your teram mates gives the younger lads a clue they are in the company of a legend).

Anyway the lad asks Lawrie in those days, being a top player, what type of car he had.

“Car” says Reilly ” On match days I did a mornings work and then got the bus down to the Easter Road!”

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goosyPosted on2:13 pm - Oct 8, 2012


justpedylan says:
Monday, October 8, 2012 at 13:29
Is the sale of debentures a fourth route? Would this require a share certificate type scheme or is it just another form of donations to the Green consortium?
I’m sure Roddy is keen to know
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
A debenture is effectively a piec of a big loan paying annual interest.The capital is repaid after a fixed term of year perhaps 20 or 25yrs If it is not secured against assets the debenture is simply an unsecured loan and in liquidation the debenture holder is a general creditor like the face painter. If ithe debenture is secured against assets then the holder will get priority over general creditors in liquidation
The old RFC had 14000 debenture holders who loaned money to build the Club Deck. In theory they will get nothing back when RFC are eventually liquidated as there are floating charge holders before them in the Creditor priority list. However if Green accepted transfer of all fixed and floating charge debts as part of the deal(which makes sense since he paid peanuts) then there may be a tiny return to the debenture holders as these priority debts would be wiped from the RFC Creditor list
Green could try to sell debenture notes in TRFC to gullible fans although I suspect there will be few takers from the 14000 lenders who bought last time
For Green to secure TRFC debenture against TRFC assets then TRFC need to own assets

Iwould imagineany new secured debenture holders would need to be told if these assets were currently being used as security for some other loan or charge

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doontheslopePosted on2:19 pm - Oct 8, 2012


I wonder what’s happened to the Monday Club this week?

For the past few weeks we have been treated to fine speeches by Charles Green, Alistair Johnston and Campbell Og, amongst others, to keep us going until the weekend.

Anything this week, gents?

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TallBoy Poppy (@TallBoyPoppy)Posted on2:23 pm - Oct 8, 2012


exiledcelt says:
Monday, October 8, 2012 at 13:34
————————————————————————————————————————–
I’m sure I’ve been on their website, but in that case it was a division of just one piece of land.
A better example would be Brian Hamilton, known as “The Raider of the Lost Titles” and a nice man, but by god has he has rattled a few of the toff’s cages – and gets a bad press as a result.
Off topic, I know – apologies….the calm before the storm?

As chuckles and Sally are in London this week to launch details of the share issue I’m sure we’ll find out the exact nature of the scam soon enough.

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wottpiPosted on2:26 pm - Oct 8, 2012


johnboy5088 says:
Monday, October 8, 2012 at 10:14

wottpi,

Sloppy journalism on your part – Graeme Macpherson does not refer to Green as chairman. He says “chief executive”.

========================================================================
No sloppy journalism on my part being that I do not claim to be a qualified,experienced, professional and salaried journalist, sports, investigative or otherwise.

I am however a potential buyer/subscriber of newspapers and as such (as I admitted) I stopped reading as soon as I saw the incorrect headline and first sentence, having convinced myself with a word search thet Malcolm Murray wasn’t mentioned. This sloppyness is not going to encourage me read on let alone part with my cash for this publication.

If, as you say, Macpherson later refers to Green correctly as Chief Executive then that is twice as bad as he has not self proofed his article to ensure his descriptions of the keys players in this saga is correct and consistant.

I agree the ‘Chairman’ headline could be the result of one or more editors further up the food chain, which then just goes to prove there is more than one sloppy journalist at that particluar publication. Which is why I don’t hold out much hope for anyone asking the required questions of Mr Charles.

Maybe I should apply for a job? I certainly feel I am more than qualified if the bar is set that low.

Please feel free to join me as my sub editor as I’m terrible for typos and the like 🙂

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neepheidPosted on2:50 pm - Oct 8, 2012


wottpi says:
Monday, October 8, 2012 at 14:26

Maybe I should apply for a job? I certainly feel I am more than qualified if the bar is set that low.
======
Funnily enough, I naively applied for a job with them when I was 18. A traditional Glasgow one question interview- “So, whit school did ye go tae, son- St Mungo’s? Aye, we’ll let ye know”. Quite an unpleasant experience for a young man, now I think about it.

But I’m sure a lot has changed in 45 years. Or looking at the “pedigree” of the ace reporter in question, maybe not?

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AllyJamboPosted on2:58 pm - Oct 8, 2012


doontheslope says:
Monday, October 8, 2012 at 14:19
0 0 i
Rate This

I wonder what’s happened to the Monday Club this week?

For the past few weeks we have been treated to fine speeches by Charles Green, Alistair Johnston and Campbell Og, amongst others, to keep us going until the weekend.

Anything this week, gents?
______________________________________________________________-

This is what I was refering to in my earlier post re the Ian Black moan about Romanov in Saturday’s Express. Has Green had a wee word with himself since his latest ‘bringing the game into disrepute’ hearing, or has one Campbell Ogilvie had the word, and Green is now leaving it to others, perhaps manipulated by his PR folk, to point the finger away from Ibrox and himself? Or is it simply a case that he’s run out of pipe dreams to sell to the punters? Mind you, after Saturday’s result, I’d be keeping the head down too 🙂

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Parson St. BhoyPosted on3:06 pm - Oct 8, 2012


wottpi says:
Monday, October 8, 2012 at 08:01
briggsbhoy says:
Monday, October 8, 2012 at 12:13
allyjambo says:
Monday, October 8, 2012 at 10:59
briggsbhoy says:
Monday, October 8, 2012 at 10:11
Observer says:
Sunday, October 7, 2012 at 20:47
john clarke says:
Sunday, October 7, 2012 at 20:50
“””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””
With regard to the dispute over Delehunt and Guidi’s comments on SSB it should be noted that there are two versions online that can be listened to.
Why?
One is a version that was posted on someone’s btinternet account and the other is available on Clyde’s playback.
Someone posted here,IIRC, that they had used a program called Audacity to listen to it and had turned down the bass and could not here the words in question. I can’t remember if it was the same poster but there were also ramblings about glottal stops etc..
I posted a reply questioning why turn down the bass when Guidi has a relatively deep voice and referred them to a program called Peak for examination of sound files, and the link to the Wiki entry for glottal stops.
Why the pedantry?
Well it goes like this. Instead of listening for the words, by using a digital audio tool like Peak or Audacity you can look for them by studying the waveform and get them to repeat by putting them on a loop. You can also zoom in on the portion of time when they were uttered. You can virtually zoom in each syllable.
Well what does this tell us?
Allowing for the fact Guidi does not use received pronunciation and his diction is not so hot it shows that not only does he say the words in question but they were prefaced by the word “and “.
Why is this important?
Well it would appear that the replay podcast has been doctored and the words in question have been edited out ie. censored. This is akin to going into the archives and altering the record a la 1984. It’s bad enough what the MSM here get up to in real time but when they start altering the past questions must be asked and I for one am glad someone is doing so. Perhaps Observer can add that on to his inquiry. “Why has the podcast been doctored?”
It is not so much a case of bad diction, glottal stops and phlegm in the throat but the need for cotton buds.

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ExiledCeltPosted on3:22 pm - Oct 8, 2012


goosy

For the last report from D&P there was the following

Debenture Holders
13.12 Please refer to the Joint Administrators‟ previous report dated 24 August 2012 for detail concerning the debenture holders‟ ability to claim in the Administration and subsequent Liquidation.

For the Aug 24th it said the following

Debenture Holders
13.20 Please refer to previous reports for a complete background on the debentures issued by the Company, however, in accordance with clause 2.3.2 of the debentures, the debentures are repayable in full upon the appointment of Administrators of the Company and in consideration for the surrender of the various benefits of holding the debentures (“the Benefits”).
Creditor

13.21 The Company will move to a CVL process shortly and in this regard, under clause 2.3.1, it is the Joint Administrators understanding that all debenture holders will become unsecured non-preferential creditors in the CVL for the par value of the debenture.
13.22 Based upon current information it is anticipated that there will be sufficient realisations to enable a distribution to the non-preferential unsecured creditors of the Company, however the timing and quantum of any distribution is uncertain, although any distribution will be made in the CVL.
13.23 The Joint Administrators understand that Newco will shortly be issuing a statement to all debenture holders, regarding Newco‟s position on the debenture holder rights for the 2012 / 2013 season.

Since there was no update in the last item since Aug 24th we can assume CG’s Newco did not issue any statement – and moreover the upper deck remains closed as far as many of the pics I have seen. Plus I saw on RM someone asking why they did not sell tickets for the upper deck so they could get a bigger world record! Seems he did not know why………

As these wuld be the ones that understand the most that it is now a new club and were the ones who gave before when needed, these shoudl have been the ones CG wanted onside – so why no announcement?

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perrywhytePosted on3:28 pm - Oct 8, 2012


Parson St Bhoy,

Seriously?! No wonder Radio Clyde hold the ‘internet bampots’ in such contempt.

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ExiledCeltPosted on3:44 pm - Oct 8, 2012


TallBoy Poppy (@TallBoyPoppy) says:

Monday, October 8, 2012 at 14:23

You can buy 1 square foot plots of land here ….

http://www.scottishlandsales.co.uk/scottish_land_gifts.html

CG is not the only spiv meister in town LOL.

Just amazing……………

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iniquitousivPosted on3:45 pm - Oct 8, 2012


Neepheid at 14:06
Well written post Mr Turnip Head, but I’m a little surprised that you estimate that 40,000 will subscribe to the pending share issue. Given the level of trust in Mr. Green expressed by Sevco fans in an earlier post, surely twenty million pounds is unattainable?

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wottpiPosted on3:59 pm - Oct 8, 2012


perrywhyte says:
Monday, October 8, 2012 at 15:28

Indeed. However we all have our little bug bears that we like to pursue. Mine is the ECA membership and the apparent lack of a bond to the SFL for seeing this season out.

The way to deal with the matter was to ask if the word ‘hope’ was used and if so get Guidi to say what he meant by it. Observer is to be applauded for managing to actually enter into dialouge woth Clyde but I feel the contents of his emails may have been slightly off his desired target.

As discussed if I were a journalist with a brass neck and getting a paid gig on a phone in where folk call in to argue black is white I’d be hoping for things to kick off on a weekly basis until my chosen date of retirement. In fact thats how Jabba makes his living by twisting and turning where the wind takes him.

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neepheidPosted on4:15 pm - Oct 8, 2012


iniquitousiv says:
Monday, October 8, 2012 at 15:45

Thanks. My numbers are based on the sales of season tickets and the attendances at Ibrox, which have truly surprised me. I do appreciate that a lot of the season tickets are not at full price, but even so, the figures are almost double what I forecast before the season started.

I think a lot of the supporters will feel obliged to rally round, and be seen to be loyal. They will be told by Green that the survival of Rangers depends entirely on the success of the share issue. And at £500, it is cleverly priced. In my view the attendances at Ibrox are a more reliable guide to current sentiment than the doubts of a few sceptical posters on FF.

I might be totally wrong, and the supporters may show a bit of common sense. We will know in a few weeks time, although I’m not sure that Green is legally obliged to disclose the outcome of this private issue. From Green’s point of view, any money he gets in is a bonus. He would like it to be as much as possible, obviously, but I’m sure his own position is already covered (via the ownership of the proprties) whatever happens with the share issue. His only worrry is that Lord Hodge voids the administration, but I’m not holding my breath on that front.

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Long Time LurkerPosted on4:22 pm - Oct 8, 2012


neepheid says:

Monday, October 8, 2012 at 16:15

Talking of Lord Hodge – is there any indication in the published Court business for this week that we can expect a ruling on whether Lord Hodge is of the mind to allow for the administration of RFC to be concluded and for the liquidation process to formally commence?

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neepheidPosted on4:41 pm - Oct 8, 2012


Long Time Lurker says:
Monday, October 8, 2012 at 16:22
====
John Clarke seems to have access to Lord Hodge’s schedule, and has lot of faith in the man himself. Personally, I think this unprecedented delay in concluding the administration has only suited Sevco’s interests. I ask myself this- if RFC had gone into liquidation on or around 16 June, as they should have done, could their SFA membership have been transferred to Sevco subsequently? Or would that membership have been extinguished on liquidation? Leaving Sevco to apply as new member? I am personally deeply suspicious, but then, that’s my nature.

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john clarkePosted on4:44 pm - Oct 8, 2012


Long Time Lurker says:
Monday, October 8, 2012 at 16:22

‘..Talking of Lord Hodge – is there any indication in the published Court business for this week..’

Nothing scheduled this week according to last Friday’s forward diary, I’m afraid.LH is, of course, scheduled for other stuff, but none of it related to RFC(IA).

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iniquitousivPosted on4:44 pm - Oct 8, 2012


Neepheid at 16:15:

I understand your rationale. I also think you are correct that many Sevco followers will feel obliged to contribute, some possibly due to desperation at the potential demise of the most important facet of their lives. I know some of them personally and their sentiments span the spectrum from cynicism, scepticism, unease, all the way to hope or blind faith that Mr. Green is the Messiah.

Given the general economic malaise, I am dubious that even 10 million is attainable. I also could be totally wrong. And if I hold my breath any longer waiting on the Tribunal findings or Lord Hodge’s decision, I may expire shortly!

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Long Time LurkerPosted on5:05 pm - Oct 8, 2012


john clarke says:

Monday, October 8, 2012 at 16:44

Thanks, does this mean that RFC Ltd will continue in administration until such times as Lord Hodge can let his decision be known?

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StevieBCPosted on5:09 pm - Oct 8, 2012


Is The RFC paying its bills ?
======================
No evidence at all, just having bad thoughts. 😉

Does anyone have any contacts/idea/rumours about whether The RFC has obtained credit terms with suppliers: if so are they being paid on time ?

[Or does newco have to make all supplier payments in advance ?]

Also, is The RFC paying its PAYE, NI, VAT, Council tax etc ?
[Although some of these payments for the newco might not be due for a few weeks yet.]

Would love to know if The RFC is meeting its financial obligations in a timely manner.

Will the SFA be closely monitoring this too ? 🙄

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mirrenmanPosted on5:13 pm - Oct 8, 2012


Interesting comment on Gersnet http://www.gersnet.co.uk/index.php/latest-news/86-rip-it-up-and-start-again

Apologies if already posted

Sometime in the late 1970s Kenny Dalglish played a Pro-Am golf tournament in Bishopbriggs. To the 9 year old me Dalglish was a god-like figure, mytholigised by Shoot magazine as the ‘king of the kop’, spoken about reverentially by fathers and boys club managers, Dalglish was the best player in the best team in Europe and the one every boy in the playground tried to emulate. Word had got out days before that he would be ‘in the area’ and all conversations that week were about what we would ask him when we saw him. His favourite goal, what type of studs he wore, how could we shoot like him and would he help coach our BB team, those were the flavour of our questions.

This was brought to mind when the current Reading captain, the incongruously named Jobi McAnuff, commented recently “the most popular question I get from kids is ‘what car do you drive?’”. I find this profoundly depressing.

Next season the new Sky TV deal comes into effect in the English Premier League. It’s apparently worth £3 billion (a figure I am unsure how to write in numbers) and heralds a 71% increase on this season. It’s best illustrated through the fact that the club that finishes bottom of the EPL next season will receive more prize money than this season’s English champions. How are clubs outside of the EPL and perhaps the top two in La Liga supposed to compete with that?

Money has been on the mind of Charles Green recently. Green’s been speaking about it to various fan groups, or at least how to raise it. Some of his ideas apparently include an orange away strip and the naming rights to Ibrox. Both those topics have proved polarising and emotive, at least on Gersnet they have. Yet throughout all this hubris I’ve yet to hear anyone ask Green the question that’s been on my mind recently; namely why? Now the obvious answer is to raise money, but that isn’t the answer it’s simply the precursor to the same question; why? What do we need this money for, what’s its purpose and what will it be spent on?

We’re a third division club just now, and one who can’t sign any players for a while either, we apparently don’t have any debt, we’ve more season ticket holders than before and are playing to very healthy crowds both home and away. Our wage bill is reportedly around £6 million, that’s not going to change much in the next couple of seasons either. So why the need for cash, surely we’ve more than enough to cover all our costs at this juncture?

We’ve chased money before. For all Sir David Murray’s many faults for a time he was able to convince people to part with millions in the name of Rangers and to be fair it was lavished on transfer fees and wages. We held the UK record transfer fee once, paid to Dundee Utd of all clubs. When we needed to improve our team we bought someone. Very few of us questioned that mind-set, I certainly didn’t. Yet look where it ultimately got us, for all the money we spent on players and salaries are we better for it, are we wiser, what have we learned from the experience?

It worries me that we’ve started to take the first few steps back down the same road that nearly killed us, why do any of us want to head in that direction again? We know where that leads and it’s painful. Where’s the vision, the real vision, I don’t want to hear about naming rights for Ibrox or orange tops, stop telling me about how much money can be raised and start telling why that matters? We’re the best supported club in Scotland, run properly we’ll always be competitive here. Even in Division Three we’ve attracted several SPL players, we didn’t need to change the name of the stadium to do that.

Here’s the rub, no matter how many orange strips we sell, no matter who puts their corporate logo across Archibald Leitch’s finest hour we’ll still not be able to compete financially with the club that finishes bottom of the league 100 miles down the M74. A Rangers that has sold everything it owns to the highest bidder, that’s squeezed every last penny out of merchandise hungry supporters will still be unable to compete financially with most Championship clubs never mind the English Premier League. Charles Green surely knows this he is English after all.

We’ve a chance just now to build something better than before. Our current predicament allows us time and provides possibilities. Instead of telling me about the ways we can generate cash Mr Green, tell me your vision for Rangers. How about this Charles ‘the starting 11 for every Rangers side from now on must have at least six home-grown players in it’, or how about ‘25% of all Rangers revenue will be invested in community and supporter projects’. Sell me the sizzle Charles, not the steak.

Now before you accuse me of being a naïve innocent or indeed some sort of Trotskyist let me explain, I’m a purveyor of capitalism, I sell you stuff you don’t need, everyday. What I know is that in a crowded market, a market dominated by highly successful, multi-national conglomerates, if you want to compete you better specialise, you better make something they can’t and it needs to give me something the others don’t. Rebuilding Rangers into a club that competes with mid-table Championship clubs to pay exorbitant wages to second-class footballers would be an opportunity missed. Rebuilding Rangers to be a club that’s instantly different from every other club would be a masterstroke. We’d still be competitive in Scotland, we’d still be expected to win more trophies than anyone else. One of the smartest moves Barcelona ever made was not putting a sponsor on their jersey, every football fan admired that, I wonder how many replica jerseys they sold because of it. By making Rangers ‘different’, in set-up, in team selection, in culture or some other way we’ve a chance to build for the next 140 years, by recreating the ‘same again’ we run the risk of finding ourselves in exactly the same position we were in last season.

Charles Green is a businessman, not a fan, he’s made that clear and I won’t criticise him for that. For me the smart business decision is to make Rangers stand for something again, be it youth development, supporter engagement or passing football I’m open to all suggestions. He has a blank canvas, a committed supporter base, the time to build something and absolute power, there will never be a better opportunity.

Charles Green has won a number of supporters over with his rhetoric recently. His brash, direct, no-nonsense style has endeared him to those so sick of listening to critics go unchallenged. I’m not onside yet though, I feel Charles Green is telling me what kind of car he drives when I want to know how to shoot like Kenny Dalglish.

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john clarkePosted on5:13 pm - Oct 8, 2012


Neepheid says:
Monday, October 8, 2012 at 16:41
‘John Clarke seems to have access to Lord Hodge’s schedule, and has lot of faith in the man himself. .’

No special access, I regret to say. Here’s the link
http://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/rolls/supreme/index.asp

Click on the day, et voila!

On Thursdays ( usually after about 10.00 a.m. ) the schedule for the following week is given. But on any given day, something might be added or amended or removed.

I generally have a wee look every other day: I’d hate to miss any hearing that there might be.

I think you’re right in that the delay in killing RFC(IA) might well have made it easier for the SFA to ‘transfer’ membership rather to deal with a new application.

But I very much doubt that that would have been deliberately engineered by Lord Hodge: not these days. Never can be absolutely of anything, though.

D&P will make their application for end of Admin after the creditors’ meeting on 12th Oct- Friday of this week.

They might get one helluva surprise if LH says ‘no’ and nullifies everything they’ve done!

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ismellafixPosted on5:20 pm - Oct 8, 2012


I have been reading on here and RTC for over a year, but this is my first post.

Since the Green takeover, among the many obfuscations and webs of deceit resulting from the lack of transparency, one thing has always puzzled me. This has been touched on by a few posters recently and the answer probably lies in the direction to “follow the money”.

I have always wondered why Charles Green and his merry men, felt the need to have two companies involved in the transition from the original Rangers, to the new Bootleg Rangers, (well they wear the same clothes, sing the same songs appear in many of the same venues and no doubt with Mr Black now alongside Mr McCullogh, there will be a few legs being booted!).

How does Green and his backers, (Ticketus?) get their money back? Again I have read many posts highlighting the difficulty for the Bootlegs to operate on an even keel, let alone return a profit for the “vulture” capitalists involved. I, like a few others, believe the two company approach is the way out. I may be wrong but I don’t believe anyone outwith the cabal has seen physical proof as to who are the legal owners of Ibrox and Murray Park. My guess as to who owns these assets is Sevco 5088 as they were the original company involved in the post CVA purchase. I believe that some of the assets have been transferred to TRFC, (ex-Sevco Scotland Ltd), but these transferred assets will likely be staff and other debt producing areas of the business.

What if TRFC now rent Ibrox and MP from Sevco 5088, (say at an OTT rent of £1m/month). The season ticket monies and other income, will pay the wages and costs, including rent, moving the capital from the football playing company to the Asset holding company. Obviously this would mean that the ST money will run out much faster, hence the need for the share issue. IF and it’s a huge if, the share issue is a success, generating say £20-30m, then Sevco 5088 have the option of continuing with their OTT rent to gradually re-coup their outlays over an extended period. Or as is more likely they then sell Ibrox and MP to TRFC for say £20-30m. This will allow the exit strategy where the investors, including ticketus, get their money back with some profit. The shareholders of TRFC will then own the assets, at which time the club will probably be in significant debt, (have any of the Ibrox cup-tie opponents been paid yet?).

The double whammy that The Rangers fans/investors could face is that CG and his merry men could still maintain a controlling interest in TRFC as the share offer may only be for a 49% holding in the club.

I may be way off the mark, but if I were interested in buying into the TRFC share offer, I would want to know exactly who owns what, pre and post the share offer, as well as a fully detailed set of company accounts year to date. Fortunately I have no interest in buying into this company and I don’t think it’s going to end well for those gullible enough to fall for this whole charade. I would not like to be a TRFC supporter faced with the ultimatum, back the club or it dies again, while knowing that their money will probably disappear into a big black hole.

PS for those who enjoy a gamble, there are still people on Betfair willing to back TRFC at 1/10 to win the 3rd division. Given that the chances of them lasting the season is probably even money, It looks like an outstanding bet. I’ve already laid them at 1/12, £50 to win £600, if they fail to win the league. Here’s hoping!!!!!

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john clarkePosted on5:21 pm - Oct 8, 2012


mirrenman says:
Monday, October 8, 2012 at 17:13
‘…It’s apparently worth £3 billion (a figure I am unsure how to write in numbers)’
—-
Damn Yanks have persuaded us all that a ‘billion’ is a ‘thousand million’. In my day, a billion was a ‘million million’.
Keep that in mind when you do business with Bill Gates! ( :))

Oh, an American billion would be 1 000 000 000 in figures.
The real billion ” 1000 000 000 000 “

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briggsbhoyPosted on5:22 pm - Oct 8, 2012


Parson St. Bhoy says:
Monday, October 8, 2012 at 15:06

You dont work in Cheltenham GCHQ by chance? don’t know what to say, speechless, no more on this please

perrywhyte says:
Monday, October 8, 2012 at 15:28

Yip

wottpi says:
Monday, October 8, 2012 at 15:59

By adding or removing two small words, he indicates that something may happen or something he wishes to see should happen. Which is it ? If whoever still feels it a cause worth chasing so be it and they has super slueth in PSB to help. I shall pass no further comment

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Parson St. BhoyPosted on5:25 pm - Oct 8, 2012


perrywhyte says:
Monday, October 8, 2012 at 15:28
“””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””
wottpi says:
Monday, October 8, 2012 at 15:59
“””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””
I just hope that Lord Hodge, BDO, and the FTT are as pedantic and forensic as the derided “internet bampots” Ⓒ Skidmark Keevins.
If you were to go back in time to alter the financial records of a company you are obviously up to no good.
If it was not for the pedantic and nit picking attention to detail of the physicists at Cern we would still be looking for the Higgs boson and thinking that tachyons could possibly travel faster than the speed of light.
If Mark Guidi is a journalist as opposed to a reporter perhaps he should re-read the Journalist’s Code of Ethics.
If you think it is acceptable to alter history and facts than perhaps it would be OK to Photoshop in a few WMDs to justify the war in Iraq.
The Fourth Estate is supposed to exist to make sure the powers that be don’t get up to such shenanigans not collude in them or instigate them. Perhaps some people read 1984 and thought it was a jolly good idea.
Normally the 30 year rule applies here for Cabinet Papers and other State secrets but for the membership book of Oswald Mosely’s British Union of Fascists it is 100 years. No doubt a lot of well connected families will still be wishing that they had managed to get their hands on it armed with a rubber or a box of matches.

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briggsbhoyPosted on5:39 pm - Oct 8, 2012


mirrenman says:
Monday, October 8, 2012 at 17:13

I remember being at the Pro am in Cawder Golf Club in Bishopbriggs back in the ealry to mid 70’s. I got to caddy for a reporter from the DM in Manchester that day and he was playing Derek Parlane.

I agree with you that Rangers have the opportunity to build a model the envy of others from the bottom up but until Chuck has headed South with his cash I don’t think you are going to see a true blueprint (no pun intended) for the future.

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nowoldandgrumpyPosted on5:41 pm - Oct 8, 2012


I think I have worked out why Charlie could not name the many investors in Sevco.

That is because he will not know their names until they give him £500.
Who are they, they are TRFC supporters, the ones that he wants to sell shares to, as they will be investing in Sevco the company and not a football club.

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scapaflow14Posted on5:52 pm - Oct 8, 2012


We now have a precedent for how FIFA views things

REAKING NEWS #Sudan stripped of 2-0 World Cup qualifying win over #Zambia for fielding an ineligible player. Zambia get 3-0 win & 3 points.

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symptomlessPosted on6:04 pm - Oct 8, 2012


nowoldandgrumpy says:
Monday, October 8, 2012 at 17:41
1 0 Rate This
I think I have worked out why Charlie could not name the many investors in Sevco.

That is because he will not know their names until they give him £500.
Who are they, they are TRFC supporters, the ones that he wants to sell shares to, as they will be investing in Sevco the company and not a football club.

———–

And judging by the ff snippet earlier there will be approx 20 of them.

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Parson St. BhoyPosted on6:09 pm - Oct 8, 2012


Not sure if this was posted here or have to thank one of the KDS accountants/’internet bampots’.
With the fuss over how the BBC have been paying people and the benefits of taking company dividends as opposed to being on the payroll and subject to PAYE it’s interesting to ponder the reluctance of some to pursue some matters.

http://company-director-check.co.uk/director/906815114

One for the experts here.
Could I be paid for work in the UK into my company, shift the money offshore eg. BVI, Jersey, Guernsey etc. and then get my greasy paws on it via an EBT?

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TallBoy Poppy (@TallBoyPoppy)Posted on6:10 pm - Oct 8, 2012


exiledcelt says:
Monday, October 8, 2012 at 15:44
———————————————————————————————————————-
£9.95 to become a Laird? Not bad at all. More money in putting game birds on the land though – if the terrain suits. My local spiv gets £47K per gun per day from our American friends!

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nowoldandgrumpyPosted on6:12 pm - Oct 8, 2012


scapaflow14 says:
=========

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19878458

The Sudan football association has also been fined US$6,430. For one match.

How does this sit with the SFA then, could they be facing a fine?

Could this be one of the reasons why the SFA and CO could be worrying about the hearing into dual contracts and could try and find a way to avoid it taking place?

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scapaflow14Posted on6:17 pm - Oct 8, 2012


John Clarke

John, I have long been of the view that CO was being kept around, until his demise could serve some purpose. ie. The high profile casualty post FTT that would allow the SFA to claim that things were changing.

However, I think it’s possible that the Summer’s shenanigan’s have altered the Balance of Power within the SFA, Reagan damaged himself needlessly. I think CO’s intervention is evidence that, he at least, believes that he may have a future. I still think he is toast, but as Lord Prescott put it, “The Tectonic Plates have shifted”

IF CO does survive, then the SFA board members will have a whole lorry load of new questions to answer…..

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TallBoy Poppy (@TallBoyPoppy)Posted on6:18 pm - Oct 8, 2012


Parson St. Bhoy says:
Monday, October 8, 2012 at 18:09
——————————————————————————————————————

I think it was a KdS exclusive, PSB.
http://downloads.duedil.com/accounts/Msm6ePctPAc=/skoosh-independent-productions-limited.pdf
Abridged accounts going back to 2003 available from same source for those interested.

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scapaflow14Posted on6:18 pm - Oct 8, 2012


nowoldandgrumpy says:
Monday, October 8, 2012 at 18:12

Possibly, but that ship has sailed. They really don’t have any control anymore.

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Parson St. BhoyPosted on6:31 pm - Oct 8, 2012


TallBoy Poppy (@TallBoyPoppy)
“”””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””
Thanks for that. Credit where credit is due. Those pesky bampots.
I’m sure Jabba will be flattered that an interest is being taken in him.

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61patrickPosted on6:31 pm - Oct 8, 2012


scapaflow14
Player was ineligible due to earlier yellow cards meant he should not have played.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19878458

But good to see the punishment for fielding ineligible players in FIFAs eyes.
Mr Ogilvie will not be feeling to clever if any players were not properly registerd by deadco and played for Scotland & other european teams

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Lord WobblyPosted on6:31 pm - Oct 8, 2012


Jim Traynor on Sportsound.

“They’ll get him eventually and the media WILL ask the question”

This was about the media pursuing Steven Fletcher iro his reasons for his return to the Scotland fold. This demonstrates that Jim knows the theory of journalism. If only he’d worked it out earlier, he might have applied that theory in pursuing SDM, Craig Whyte and Charles Green.

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calumcrofterPosted on6:36 pm - Oct 8, 2012


mirrenman says:
Monday, October 8, 2012 at 17:13
9 2 Rate This
Interesting comment on Gersnet http://www.gersnet.co.uk/index.php/latest-news/86-rip-it-up-and-start-again

You have brought, for me, a significant contribution to the discussion on ‘Naming the Rose’. The writer, on Gersnet, is clearly a football person – no baggage – with vision.
His support for ‘Rangers’, I respect. Respect for the skills of Dalglish we share, but, I must be older than him …. saved good money to see the emerging talent at Parkhead.

There is much more to write on this but , for now, can I raise the issue of sponsorship? Is it now time that Celtic and ‘Rangers’ can independently seek sponsors?

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Lord WobblyPosted on6:40 pm - Oct 8, 2012


nowoldandgrumpy says:
Monday, October 8, 2012 at 18:12
1 0 Rate This
scapaflow14 says:
=========
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19878458

The Sudan football association has also been fined US$6,430. For one match.
How does this sit with the SFA then, could they be facing a fine?
Could this be one of the reasons why the SFA and CO could be
worrying about the hearing into dual contracts and could try and find a way to avoid it taking place?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
They don’t like it up ’em! ( ® Lance-Corporal Jack Jones)

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Lord WobblyPosted on6:50 pm - Oct 8, 2012


If any TRFC fans are looking in and have access to Turner Classic Movies, put it on in about ten minutes and you’ll see ‘Billy Two Hats’. 😀

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scapaflow14Posted on6:57 pm - Oct 8, 2012


Lord Wobbly says:
Monday, October 8, 2012 at 18:50

First time I read that I thought you were referring to a certain ex Edinburgh Councillor, lol

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andyPosted on7:04 pm - Oct 8, 2012


Originally Posted by copland71
The money is being kept for running costs
And the buying of players… green did state we would
Still be buying players we may not be able
To register them but we can still buy them…
They want 50 million in bank before back in
The top flight give mcoist 10 million and 40 million
Cash flow…..z
This was greens words on Thursday….

__________________
this was on the FF thread about the share offer
surely a windup

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andyPosted on7:22 pm - Oct 8, 2012


http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/administration/97/29/01/circularno.1171-professionalfootballplayercontractminimumrequirements.pdf

_____________
for those who are not on twitter barcaboy just tweeted that document

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andyPosted on7:24 pm - Oct 8, 2012


Rangers Tax-Case
‏@rangerstaxcase
@Barcabhoy1 Does this mean that Campbell Ogilvie must have known that the contracts he signed on behalf of RFC violated FIFA guidelines?

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andyPosted on7:24 pm - Oct 8, 2012


Rangers Tax-Case
‏@rangerstaxcase
@Barcabhoy1 Btw, my last tweet was a rhetorical question. I expect a flurry of journalistic activity following up on this issue. 😉

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Parson St. BhoyPosted on7:25 pm - Oct 8, 2012


New job for Whitehouse of Duff&Duffer fame. Pretty quick off the mark in shutting the doors this time. Are you watching Lord Hodge?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-west-wales-19875475

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bect67Posted on7:27 pm - Oct 8, 2012


Rustyploughboy says at 11.18

Fair point well (and logically) made! That’s a good one for football quizzes!

Ahcumfaegovan (and proud of it), but no one can ever agree where its boundaries lie. To me, Sevco come fae Ibrox.

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john clarkePosted on7:29 pm - Oct 8, 2012


Lord Wobbly says:
Monday, October 8, 2012 at 18:31

‘.Jim Traynor on Sportsound.

“They’ll get him eventually and the media WILL ask the question” ‘
——
Or, as a director of Skoosh Independent Productions might say, ” They’ll get me eventually and the internet bampots WILL ask the question”

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bect67Posted on7:30 pm - Oct 8, 2012


Sorry. Should be Rustyploughboy says at 12.51!

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Parson St. BhoyPosted on7:33 pm - Oct 8, 2012


Rumour mill/Jungle drums sending out that the FTT decision coming out this week. Tic toc…

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justshateredPosted on7:36 pm - Oct 8, 2012


While some BBC journalists may havebeen paid via an EBT it, as we have often been told, is not illegal. Now if the said journalist(s) had to have every payment registered with the NUJ,as per their rules, but had omitted to do so then they would have problems.
That is over and above the moral repugnance of tax evasion when the country is in the state its in.
By the way since the game in Scotland is facing financial melt down I hope all SPL grounds are now charging the ‘Journalists’ (no laughing at the back) admision. I mean Jabba would have to pay for two or at least a parent and child.

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valentinesclownPosted on7:37 pm - Oct 8, 2012


Posted by Barcabhoy on CQN tonight.

Barcabhoy
18:25 on
8 October, 2012
I suggest anyone interested in the Rangers Tax Case and issues surrounding the FTT and dual contracts has a look at this.

http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/administration/97/29/01/circularno.1171-professionalfootballplayercontractminimumrequirements.pdf

It will also end any arguments being put forward by the MSM on Image Rights.

This is an official FIFA mandate and therefore sits above national or continental rules, which in any case normally mirror this

I would urge all interested parties to read in particular sections 4 and 6.

A brief summary would be RFC are in serious breach, and Celtic have done nothing to fall foul of the regulations

In light of the news on Sudan and Zambia, Fifa are going to have to deal with a scandal greater than any they have faced before

David Murray and Rangers should be shortly facing a FIFA punishment beyond anything they have ever handed down previously

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nowoldandgrumpyPosted on7:50 pm - Oct 8, 2012


ohhappydayz says:

…David Murray and Rangers should be shortly facing a FIFA punishment beyond anything they have ever handed down previously
=====

And the SFA

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scottcPosted on7:57 pm - Oct 8, 2012


ohhappydayz says:

…David Murray and Rangers should be shortly facing a FIFA punishment beyond anything they have ever handed down previously

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Unfortunately, I doubt very much if FIFA can do anything at all to David Murray. He is no longer involved in football (officially).

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Parson St. BhoyPosted on7:58 pm - Oct 8, 2012


ohhappydayz says:
Monday, October 8, 2012 at 19:37
“””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””
There will be so much shit hitting the fan that it may well stop turning altogether.
I hope that they have some bio-hazard suits in the basement at Hampden.

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TallBoy Poppy (@TallBoyPoppy)Posted on8:00 pm - Oct 8, 2012


justshatered says:
Monday, October 8, 2012 at 19:36
—————————————————————————————————————————-

In the days of the post-entry NUJ closed shop, justshatered, that may have been a problem. Not now, I’m afraid. I’m not even sure that Traynor is in the Record Chapel – he’s classed as management. Anyway, NUJ members following their own rules? Only when they want to shaft
another member.

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billyj1Posted on8:17 pm - Oct 8, 2012


Parson St Bhoy is suggesting that the FTT decision may come out this week. With Scotland due to play Wales on Friday night, and Belgium next week might this be an appropriate time for the publication of bad news, a la olympics opening ceremony. Just wondering.

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scapaflow14Posted on8:19 pm - Oct 8, 2012


ohhappydayz says:
Monday, October 8, 2012 at 19:37

Interesting doc, but its not new, I find it hard to believe that the World’s Greatest Football Administrator was unaware of its provisions……

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angus1983Posted on8:40 pm - Oct 8, 2012


Parson St. Bhoy says:
Monday, October 8, 2012 at 19:33

Rumour mill/Jungle drums sending out that the FTT decision coming out this week. Tic toc…
——

Being as the publication of the decision was mooted for October, the rumour mill isn’t exactly coming up with anything too astounding there. 😉

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Parson St. BhoyPosted on8:41 pm - Oct 8, 2012


scapaflow14 says:
Monday, October 8, 2012 at 20:19

Interesting doc, but its not new, I find it hard to believe that the World’s Greatest Football Administrator was unaware of its provisions……
“””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””

The goat ate it before he had a chance to read it.

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twopandaPosted on8:47 pm - Oct 8, 2012


In May FIFA told SFA told to sort it out quickly – Court of Session Civil Appeal – Strike 1
In June FIFA told SFA to sort it out quickly – Player Transfers Registrations Dispute – Strike 2
In Oct / Nov? – FIFA to tell SFA to sort it out quickly – yet more irregularities on SFA watch? – Strike 3?

Very thin ice now
Cause for concern

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OldcobrokemyheartbycheatingPosted on8:54 pm - Oct 8, 2012


Why have Fifa not stepped in at any point already as they have had plenty of reason’s already to do so. The timing was perfect after transfer ban etc was challenged, but all they done was threaten the national team which as T’Rangers have already showed means nothing to them. It is now a major blot on world football probably (my opinion) the biggest mass cheating ever in football. Are Fifa scared to step in as they would be scared of what they would find, and the fall-out it would cause? Seem’s to me like they have steered well clear of the stink to save themselves any further scandal.

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torrejohnbhoyPosted on9:00 pm - Oct 8, 2012


Just seen some pics of TRFCs game on Saturday.
Can anyone explain why,if their new strip for “140 years” has the wee Tennents badge below,like the Celtic kit and the logo without the 5 stars,why were they playing in last years strips with the big Tennents wording across the middle and 5 stars still on the logo.
Do TRFC have a strip deal for this year?.
Other posters have noticed games where logos on shorts have been different.
CG stated that his “joint venture”(that’s the one where sportsdirect.com own 100% of the company)would see merchandise appearing in the coming months.
Seriously,I’m asking,does anyone know if TRFC have anyone supplying them with kit for this season?.

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