We spend an inordinate amount of time on this blog arguing about what the re-emergent Rangers should be called. It is a rather circular debate with no way of finding any consensus. The dispute between Rangers (“The Rangerists”) or The Rangers or Sevco (“The Sevconians”) and its claim to be the club that was formed in the 19th century is spurious. Whichever way you look at it, the continuity of the “brand” is undeniable and as long those who wish to keep buying that package are satisfied that the wrapping is authentic – where’s the harm?
The red herring in the argument is that “history” is important. To the average football fan, it is nothing of the kind. As a Celtic fan myself, and a bit of a student of the history of the club, I am constantly dismayed by the Thousand Yard Stare I get from your average Celtic fan who is confronted with the names of people who contributed significantly to the club’s identity. Key figures like Sandy McMahon, Jimmy Delaney, Jimmy McGrory and (God help us) John Thomson rarely elicit recognition.
Modern football fans who live in the instant gratification society of the the WWW and mobile communications may pay lip service to their clubs’ history, but that’s not what gives the modern football fan wears as his badge of honour. That is a commodity often erroneously confused with history – the bragging rights associated with the trophy haul.
The ability to claim that “we have more titles than you” is far more valuable to a supporter than which 19th century attacking centre-back won the Scottish Cup with a last minute header; and the value of said cup wins is heavily weighted in favour of the most recent (save for the honourable exception of the European successes).
The maintenance of that illusion of superiority is crucial if Rangers fans are to believe that their club is still Rangers. Perhaps in time they may even come to fully believe it themselves, but the cataract of column inches devoted to propagating that myth, both from the MSM and from information outlets controlled by Charles Green’s organisation, betrays a lack of total belief by the chief Bear-existentialists. Protesting too much may not be subtle, but that never put off your average fitba’ man either.
The upshot though is this. There is a belief – or at least a hope – amongst Rangerists that the continuity argument holds. They will call the new club Rangers. Fans of other clubs who make up the vast majority of the Sevconian tendency, believe nothing of the kind. They will call it something else.
Many will remind Rangerists that the old club died, and this is factually correct (or at least will be very soon). Rangerists will counter that the Rangers ethos lives on at Ibrox, and despite the worrying overtones (for some) contained in that statement, that is also factually correct.
Rangerists will also point out, as Rangers fans on this blog already have, that the SPL bent over backwards to assist the continuity of the club in order to minimise the financial consequences for Scottish football, and that the SFL too, have agreed that they are the same club.
Why? Simply because Scottish Football thinks it needs to help perpetrate they illusion of continuity to avoid the loss of thousands of paying customers to the game altogether.
So round one has gone to the Rangerists, with the Sevconians pretty much taking an eight-count.
So is the name thing important? I don’t think it is of critical importance. The name in itself doesn’t matter, but to merely agree that everything is as before is to join forces with the MSM, SFA & SPL who have sought to give RFC and their tax theft a pass.
Whatever happens in the future though, the illusion hasn’t worked completely. The Sevconians’ wish to call the new club by a different name was for the purpose of making it synonymous with tax evasion, however the name Rangers now evokes exactly that response. There is now a discernible pause when people mention Rangers. A pause that reflects on the dis-service they did to the country, and to the game of football in Scotland.
Which brings us to the really important point. Throughout this saga rules have been bent. Conflicted individuals, alleged to have been involved in the tax and registration scam and its subsequent cover-up, have remained in positions of authority and power, despite being under a cloud throughout. The media have been complicit, except in rare cases, in allowing the wrong-doing to go unquestioned, actively campaigning for rules not to be applied.
What we have been saying all along is this. Please play the game by the rules, and do not manufacture special cases for the financially powerful.
Call Rangers whatever you wish, but deal with their transgressions appropriately in the spirit of sporting fairness, and within the framework of the existing rules. That is the least – and most – we expect. We don’t ask for much. Just give us back some pride in our sport .
john clarke says:
Tuesday, October 9, 2012 at 22:42
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Observer says:
Tuesday, October 9, 2012 at 21:33
‘..And before the Nimmo Smith Inquiry rules.
If I were a TRFC fan, this is what would concern me most: why the rush?’
—Agreed.
—–
Also agreed.
And, it must be said, the bears are beginning to agree too. Rumblings over on RM about why exactly there’s a need to raise money right now when there’s a transfer embargo on, when they have no debt, and when they have x millions in the bank from the “consortium”, with more on tap as and when needed.
I’m thinking the majority of bears are beginning to pause for thought (hard as that activity may be for the poor souls) and are starting to twig that, just maybe, they’ve been had again. I can see the backlash coming over the horizon … and it’s not pretty.
john clarke says:
Tuesday, October 9, 2012 at 22:42
and, quietly between you and me: Guidi said ‘I hope’.
Thank goodness we have finally cleared that up!!
Regarding ownership of Ibrox, Murray Park and Albion Car Parks, was there not a post on RTC with a screen grab from the Scottish Land Registry? I think it showed a transfer from the Administrators of RFC to Sevco Scotland.
campsiejoe says:
Tuesday, October 9, 2012 at 22:29
Joe and neep, quite right remembered after I’d posted.
john clarke says:
Tuesday, October 9, 2012 at 22:42
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Observer says:
Tuesday, October 9, 2012 at 21:33
‘..And before the Nimmo Smith Inquiry rules.
If I were a TRFC fan, this is what would concern me most: why the rush?’
—Agreed.
( and, quietly between you and me: Guidi said ‘I hope’.
And I think it very much would be a sackable offence, and possibly a criminal offence, if any person on a licensed radio station were to utter any such encouragement to public disorder. You are not to be faulted for trying to establish the truth.
——————————————-
Ta for that, JC!
Fact is that my complaint to Ofcom is not even about the “disputed two words”.
My complaint is that the whole tone of the show on 18th Sept – “Civil war”. “Will kick off” – was out of order.
If Radio Clyde had held their hands up & said ‘Fair Cop mate, we went a bit too far’ I’d not have taken it any further.
On the “disputed two words” the situation is really very simple.
Radio Clyde – and therefore Mark Guidi – know who I am and have my email address.
If I got the “two words” wrong then Mark or Clyde can simply tell me what he REALLY said, and can ask me to tell all my friends on here the truth of the matter.
I assure you: as soon as Radio Clyde or Mark Guidi tell me that I’m wrong & tell me what he really said I’ll be the first to post it here and apologise for misunderstanding.
But I first contacted Clyde on Sept 19th & in our correspondence to date they have not yet put me right on this…
Observer says:
Tuesday, October 9, 2012 at 23:24
And if you are right, and you heard what you think you heard, what is the endgame here?
Was someone on Radio Clyde threatening “Civil War”?
I’m genuinely interested (although I supsrcibe to DP’s “let it go” theory) as to where you think this was going.
nowoldandgrumpy says:
Tuesday, October 9, 2012 at 21:11
I heard the Sevco cut from the Stirling game was £4,000.00
Not A Lot as someone famous said.
————————————————————————–
Actually it was less than that, it was £0,000.00
Scottish league teams keep home gates except in cup games.
Or if they did get £4,000 I hope the police have good descriptions of the guys who took it.
angus1983 says:
Tuesday, October 9, 2012 at 22:49
Won’t the crunch point be the close season? Lots of revenue expenditure, no income, and no Ticketus to smooth out the cashflow?
theglen2012 says:
Tuesday, October 9, 2012 at 23:34
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Observer says:
Tuesday, October 9, 2012 at 23:24
And if you are right, and you heard what you think you heard, what is the endgame here?
Was someone on Radio Clyde threatening “Civil War”?
———————————-
Yes. They were. And that is the substance of my complaint to the regulator.
The incitement is here, from Radio clyde’s Superscoreboard of September 18th:
http://www.btinternet.com/~k.miller18/ssb18th.mp3
Guidigate: In an attempt to settle this long running debate, I got my old Decca turntable out once again, I played the tape in the normal way, I played it backwards as someone suggested a few weeks ago and then I heard Mrs Midcalderan say just a moment ago “Is that you reading that TSFM again, get to bed and forget about Guidigate ”
Go to do as she says.
Observer says: Tuesday, October 9, 2012 at 23:43
Yes. They were. And that is the substance of my complaint to the regulator.
————————-
Excellent. Thanks.
I suspect we are about to be discussing many things pretty soon but, I suspect, this will not be one of them.
Bash on though.
I have some Judas Priest records I need to listen to backwards.
No disrespect intended. We’re all here for the common goal after all.
Observer
I too complained to Bauer Radio, Head of Comms though, who AGREED and passed this onto Bryce for comment and to be fair he did respond. He agreed that MG did indeed say “I hope” but did not think offence was meant etc etc at length.
He asked me to call, which I did, I asked if he thought it was professional for a radio station to allow one of its regular contributors to use such inflammatory language bearing in mind the level of interest in the issue and the threats of violence found on messageboards from a certain fanbase. And should he not then direct the shows content to be cautious and mindful of such an emotive subject.
Again he agreed and assured me MG was aware of complaints similar to mine and his need to be careful with his language.
I have an email chain!
celt4life says:
Tuesday, October 9, 2012 at 23:54
Observer”bearing in mind the level of interest in the issue and the threats of violence found on messageboards from a certain fanbase. And should he not then direct the shows content to be cautious and mindful of such an emotive subject”
What I don’t quite get is, if this was some sort of call to arms from a certain fanbase, then why have I not heard about it?
The only people who are discussing this are folks here?
I’m not for one second saying that the call for some sort of civil war or riot between various factions within the fabric of Scottish Football support should go unpunished but, I have not seen one word of this mentioned on the various websites of that “certain fanbase”?
I suspect they (and me, as a Rangers fan [thumbs down, remember]) have a whole lot more to worry about in the coming weeks, if the jungle drums speak true.
I’ll call it a day on this issue, if you don’t mind.
Big news (and bad news for RFC) coming soon.
celt4life says:
Tuesday, October 9, 2012 at 23:54
—
‘ ..He agreed that MG did indeed say “I hope” but did not think offence was meant etc etc at length……..
…Again he agreed and assured me MG was aware of complaints similar to mine and his need to be careful with his language. ‘
—–
Good man yourself.
“.. Rangers fans will be up in arms and I hope it kicks off..”
There is absolutely no disputing that that is what was said.
There MIGHT, as in ‘if we lived in a far more rational football environment’ , conceivably be room for questioning whether the phrase ” I hope it kicks off’ means anything more than ” I hope there may be some formal protest from Rangers fans.”
But we need to be real.
Guidi was speaking to the same kind of people who send bullets and threaten to burn down other stadia, and cause absolute havoc in fine cities like Manchester.
The guy is at the very least a feckin idiot.
I think he’s a dangerous would-be stirrer-upper of the rabble, not unlike the man who is going to make a dishonest million or two by screwing him and his like into the ground..
angus1983 says:
Tuesday, October 9, 2012 at 22:42
How do you arrive at that conclusion?
———————————————————————————————————————————-
Have you just chastised me?
It’s just that the things he was saying and the way he was saying them made me think he must
be a yank…and I still think I’m right!
Re the Forbes article by Mr Jon Pritchett
The real issue is not What was written
It is Why it was written ?
in the week when the FTT is likely to publish its findings ?
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
The answer I believe lies in in the content and the source
It is an article about a subject that has almost zero interest outside Scotland. It is therefore almost certainly a paid for PR insertion in a reputable magazine
So Why was it written and what purpose does it serve?
The thrust of the article is that lessons should be learned from the death of RFC. Sevco must take these lessons and behave like any other business. However the inference is that the Green has a long way to go to achieve the business model needed for Sevco to survive. So in essence it is a criticism of Green and a thinly disguised attack on the upcoming fundraising
The article could have been written by dozens of successful expatriate scots plying their trade in the USA
Most likely it was written at the instigation of Alistair Johnston. As a successful businessman he must have been appalled at the behaviour of SDM and the scandal unrolling before his very eyes. His purpose may be to remind fans that because Green is in this for the short term he cannot possibly have their true interests at heart.
The article paints a picture of painful changes that Sevco need to make to live within its means
Either Sevco are liquidated following an inadequate fundraising or they are sold to realists. True Investors intent on creating a new Sevco worthy of replicating the best of dead club
.
Either way it augurs well for the future albeit there may be more pain in the short term
My money is on AJ reappearing as a Savior ready and willing to pick up the pieces after Green exits after the fundraising leaving some very angry fans behind
goosygoosy says:
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 at 00:22
Goosy AJ has fit and proper problems up the ying yang, not to mention the very real possibility of being on the receiving end of a lengthy UK director’s ban, (in company with many others)
b1ckerstaff says:
Tuesday, October 9, 2012 at 22:10
That’s one of the best darn rootin-tootin pieces of satire I’ve ever read on this site.
A wonderful read.
Thank you.
abigboydiditandranaway says:
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 at 00:21
‘….Have you just chastised me?….’
—
What a wonderfully Brontean/ Austen-ish sentence. A soothing, delightful reminder of gentler times and gentler manners. Loved it.
theglen2012 says:
Tuesday, October 9, 2012 at 23:52
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Observer says: Tuesday, October 9, 2012 at 23:
Yes. They were. And that is the substance of my complaint to the regulator.
————————-
Excellent. Thanks.
I suspect we are about to be discussing many things pretty soon but, I suspect, this will not be one of them.
———————
You betcha!
RTC and Barcabhoy will be in the frontline in the next few days & bit parts like me will fade into total insignificance.
PS: Doesn’t mean we didn’t do our bit though, does it?
PPS: You do realise that this country is at war, don’t you??
celt4life says:
Tuesday, October 9, 2012 at 23:54
10 1 Rate This
Observer
I too complained to Bauer Radio, Head of Comms though, who AGREED and passed this onto Bryce for comment and to be fair he did respond. He agreed that MG did indeed say “I hope” but did not think offence was meant etc etc at length.
——————
Thank you celt4life!
Phew: can the people calling me a cloth-eared, deaf, trouble-making fantasist please back off now?
This will go to Ofcom and they’ll rule on it (probably a slap on Guidi’s wrist TBH).
But I do feel a wee bit vindicated in raising the issue in the first place.
I was listening to it in blissfully unsectarian England on the 18th of September and thought “No. You can’t say that. And I’m gonna ask some questions about why you guys think you can”.
Observer says:
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 at 00:36
———————
You betcha!
1. RTC and Barcabhoy will be in the frontline in the next few days & bit parts like me will fade into total insignificance.
2. PS: Doesn’t mean we didn’t do our bit though, does it?
3. PPS: You do realise that this country is at war, don’t you??
———————————
Aye!
1. I welcome the truth, regardless of who brings it, or who is at the frontline.
2. Absolutely, we all have our part to play.
3. With who?
john clarke says:
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 at 00:19
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celt4life says:
Tuesday, October 9, 2012 at 23:54
—
‘ ..He agreed that MG did indeed say “I hope” but did not think offence was meant etc etc at length……..
…Again he agreed and assured me MG was aware of complaints similar to mine and his need to be careful with his language. ‘
—–
Good man yourself.
“.. Rangers fans will be up in arms and I hope it kicks off..”
There is absolutely no disputing that that is what was said
———————————–
jc – – from a perspective south of the border it freaks me out that this is no big deal to Bauer Media & Radio Clyde.
If he said something similar about LFC fans on Radio Merseyside, or Millwall fans on Capital, or about Bluebirds fans on Radio Cardiff: he would have lost his job on the morning of September 19th.
Glasgow – you are a sick, sick culture feeding on hate & violence.
Oh on the Guidi thing I, too, don’t really get it.
Guidi is a Celtic man.
Why would he hope that Rangers fans kick-off?
To sell newspapers and increase the listening figures on Radio Clyde?
Or perhaps he wants to see the Rangers fans embarrass themselves in public again?
I’d be interested to know what Observer believes is Guidi’s motivation behind the statement in question.
Any sign o’ the papers yet? Must be running late.
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/sfl-division-three/club9-chief-sparks-fury-at-ibrox-over-cash-claims-1-2566564
raycharlez says:
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 at 01:01
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Oh on the Guidi thing I, too, don’t really get it.
Guidi is a Celtic man.
———————————–
I’m a Celtic man myself. With respect – it’s irrelevant, mate. Get yr brain out of the West of Scotland for five mins, eh?!!
It is now undisputed that, on the 18th September, when Jim Delahunt asked him:
“If they do strip Rangers of titles what will the ordinary fan on the ground do?”
Guidi responded with:
“The Rangers fans will be up in arms and I hope it’ll kick off”.
Radio Clyde have officially confirmed that this is what he said.
Radio Clyde and the Daily Record should now sack him for incitement to violence.
With respect – it is relevant.
You claim it is an “incitement to violence”.
I dispute that.
Were his words malicious? Were they designed to cause harm?
What does kick-off mean?
For instance, could it mean that Rangers fans form a picket line around Hampden?
Good copy for a journalist that sort of thing.
If it “kicks-off” like that publishers will sell more papers, especially if Coisty or Charles Green join the picket line.
It would really “kick-off” then.
There would probably be lots more booing, shouting and chanting.
Could use that audio for Radio Clyde.
They could even have a live feed from Hampden.
Popel would listen in as it is all “kicking-off”.
Where is the incitement to violence in such a scenario?
The English language is very rich and context and meaning are crucial.
Again, I ask you.
Why would a Celtic man want it all to “kick-off” at Rangers.
I can see why a journalist would and when Guidi says “kick-off” is it not reasonable to infer that his definition of “kick-off” is a more liberal one than the “incitement to violence” meaning that you attribute to the words?
Would you convict a man on his words without looking at their context?
I suspect you have already done so.
I also believe you are wrong to do so.
theglen2012 says:
Tuesday, October 9, 2012 at 23:34
Observer says:
Tuesday, October 9, 2012 at 23:43
john clarke says:
Tuesday, October 9, 2012 at 22:42
Observer
Late one Friday night about 10 days ago you posted your emails with Clyde re Guidigate. My personal opinion, having seen previous posts (not all yours I suppose) on the matter was that this was just like the William Shakespeare comedy “Much ado about nothing”. I posted as such and it was your reaction and personal attack on my character on your responding post (as I wasn’t on the good ship Observer) that has I suppose brought us to where we are today. I don’t think I would have even bothered my backside posting any comment in response if you had quite simply said “Briggsbhoy don’t agree I think it’s worth chasing, let me prove that to you” but unfortunately you didn’t, I got a troll type response. If you look at posts over that weekend things never “kicked off” and “civil war” amongst posters (where have I heard those phrases) never happened on this subject until I put up my response later in the week. In fact the blog had moved on from the subject header and I put my response in the old header, nobody had looked at it and I therefore asked the monitor to delete it so I could repost under the new header. A couple of early volleys between you and I has unfortunately seen many being dragged into this and people taking sides, interestingly my nom de plume has dropped into the background as other have taken flack on my behalf as I would see it. So this is all our fault, your’s for your smart arsed response and mine for getting annoyed at it.
Let me just say I bear you no ill will and I’m sure you a pretty reasonable bloke as I believe I am and I’m sure that if we met we could enjoy a pint and a bit of banter. I would say to everyone on here though do not pass any comments on this posting either, I would rather just see TU or TD’s and that’s it. Don’t even be tempted to say anything just a TU or a TD. For me the matter is dead and for you Observer I’m sure you still feel you have something to chase and as you have come this far there is no point in ending the process with Clyde and Ofcom. Take it to where you can prove your point or otherwise.
To finish can I just add that being in the public eye every other day is very difficult and every word you utter however innocent can be taken apart, dissected and twisted. There is a Queen of Hearts “off with their heads” brigade out there who sit waiting on every comment or utterance from certain individuals as they make good headlines. Jeremy Clarkson is a fine example of the off cuff, tongue-in check remarks that the public and press like to jump upon. I’m not suggesting for a moment that you are one of this brigade but I do think we all at times we need to analysis things before we jump in and get carried away. Sometimes we can even make that regretable Freudian slip and Mr Guidi I even suspect is not a Rangers man having worked with a few Celtic players on their autobiographies so why would he utter such unless in error or he is a twisted bar steward.
nowoldandgrumpy says:
Tuesday, October 9, 2012 at 21:11
I heard the Sevco cut from the Stirling game was £4,000.00
Not A Lot as someone famous said.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
What cut?…it was a league game…do the SFL share cash involving league games?
Oh – and with respect – it wouldn’t need John Terry’s lawyers to prove Guidi innocent of an “incitement to violence”.
I’m sure any lawyer who engages their brain could have your spurious charge thrown out in five minutes even if the case is held in the West of Scotland.. eh?!!
raycharlez says:
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 at 02:04
Nae responses please, Ray Charlez you blind or somit can you no read, 🙂
Here are 25 other scribes to talk about………proper journalists that have been threatened by Sevconians……..
http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/journalism-and-democracy/
timtim says:
Tuesday, October 9, 2012 at 18:50
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I still maintain…why would the guy at Forbes (associated to Bill Miller, close friend of AJ) be bothered writing such a piece?…The piece itself was split in 2….yes it stated the wrong doings..but also made some questionable positive spin statements…It has AJ’S finger prints on it..of that I’m certain…
And now we have Murray issuing a counter statement…very similar to how Craig Whyte would have responded…..
briggsbhoy says:
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 at 02:01
————————————-
You should consider giving it up. briggsbhoy.
Celt4life has confirmed what I have asserted all along: neither Mark Guidi nor Radio Clyde intend to contest my transcript of the SSB broadcast of Sept 18th.
Ergo, my transcript of that broadcast, which I paste below is a true record of the transmission.
It’s like a circling of the West of Scotland wagons against outsiders like me who question the offensive, sectarian bubble you guys think is normality.
It is not normality. Look outside Strathclyde, people do not have have these sectarian hatreds in the real world!
The unchallenged transcript of Clyde Superscoreboard on Sept 18 is this:
————————–
Jim Delahunt: “… if they do strip (Rangers of) titles, what do you think will be the reaction of supporters on the ground?”
Mark Guidi: “The Rangers fan’s will be up in arms and I hope it’ll kick off.”
Jim Delahunt: “Civil war, isn’t it?”
Mark Guidi: “Yeah”.
—————————
That is it. Undisputed. Now, go work out who is a “Celtic man” or a “Rangers man” in that and you are deranged!!!
Observer
Continued support re ‘hope’ I know what I heard and the guy has to be dealt with!! Simples.
Re Guidi gate – my take on it, I believe that he said “I hope it’ll kick off”. In the context of the exchange between Jim Delahunt and himself, his conduct falls well below the standards required of broadcaster.
There is an old adage – fight the battles you can win. I think that complaints have been made to the radio station in question and from what I can see from the feedback posted here, these have been taken seriously.
It is unlikely that Guidi will be suspended or taken off of the air. Those who are dissatisfied with the response from Radio Clyde, if they remain unhappy should as is their right take their complaints further [OFCOM?].
Personally I think that Mr Guidi is angry and hurt. I doubt that he meant what he said. I doubt very much that he would repeat such words. If he does, there are solid complaints on record.
I would imagine that if it has not hapened allready a quiet word or two has been placed in his ear by his boss.
Radio Clyde are unlikely to take this further, unless a higher authority require action, which I doubt will happen.
My personal take on Guidi gate: its like picking an arguement with a drunk. You may have the moral high ground, and are unlikely to win the arguement to your satisfaction.
I am not condoning anyone who seeks to cause trouble and/or stir-up hatred. In this instance, I think we have an angry, frustrated and hurting broadcaster. There are people out there in the RFC(IA) sphere who have more likely than not taken deliberate steps to provide the club with advantages outwith the sporting, civil and perhaps criminal laws. Perhaps that is where the focus of the arguement should return?
Observer says:
Tuesday, October 9, 2012 at 23:43
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theglen2012 says:
Tuesday, October 9, 2012 at 23:34
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Observer says:
Tuesday, October 9, 2012 at 23:24
And if you are right, and you heard what you think you heard, what is the endgame here?
Was someone on Radio Clyde threatening “Civil War”?
———————————-
Yes. They were. And that is the substance of my complaint to the regulator.
The incitement is here, from Radio clyde’s Superscoreboard of September 18th:
http://www.btinternet.com/~k.miller18/ssb18th.mp3
—————————————————————
“Yes. They were. And that is the substance of my complaint to the regulator.”
Well said Observer, and thank you for your dogged pursuit and forensic analysis of ‘guidigate’.
The Rangers Tax Case’s raison d’être was two-pronged – highlighting the misdemeanour’s of the establishment Scottish football club AND the shameful role of the MSM in the whole affair. The Scottish daily rags and radio football phone in’s have seen their readership and audiences slashed on an almost daily basis (my opinion). Traynor, Jackson, Keevins, Guidi etc will stop at nothing to invent or stir up stories of a controversial nature. They are desperate to cling on to their ‘old firm meal ticket’, too late alas.
Spin and lies should always be exposed.
The ongoing success of RTC (and ultimate birth of this blog) was based on the proper investigation and exposure of what is/was really happening. Jeez wasn’t the MBB discredited by the internet bampots within days. Why? – the Scottish media (on the whole) trumpeted Whyte and his ilk as having wealth ‘off the radar’. When Jackson was exposed and ridiculed his whole riposte was ‘I was duped’. (S)DM, wee Darrell, Jabba – they were all duped.
How did the MSM react to being duped? Did they decide to tread more warily when Charlie boy arrived – NAW. They printed and continue to print or air anything that will have the sheep rushing to the nearest newsagent.
To you guys telling Observer to leave it or move on, I say to you, give him/her some plaudits for having the tenacity to follow through with his complaint….and from the deepest shires of England.
Johnbhoy75 (@Johnbhoy75) says:
Tuesday, October 9, 2012 at 20:18
20 1 Rate This
Murray reveals a lot when he said “the IPO will generate millions in additional revenue”‘
=================
Whatever happened to ‘quantum’?
iki says:
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 at 07:46
1 0 i
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Johnbhoy75 (@Johnbhoy75) says:
Tuesday, October 9, 2012 at 20:18
Murray reveals a lot when he said “the IPO will generate millions in additional revenue”‘
=================
Whatever happened to ‘quantum’?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Quantum doesn’t sound as good as …MILLIONS..
Observer
I heard the original…… Listened on your link………my husband recorded it,(he was working down south) listened to that…………………all clearly guidi heard saying ‘hope’. Listened to Clyde’s podcast??? The hope bit has been blurred/fluffed or doctored very simple Clyde are covering their asses talking of which guidi on tonight I guess he’ll be very careful 🙂
On the subject of what MG may or may not have said, it comes down to the basic question of what side of the fence you sit on. Not this stupid Celtic/Ranges fence as I am not one of those people who subscribe to the theory that even if you are a Hearts supporter, you must still have leanings towards one of the Old Firm. I am thinking more about objectiveness, do you listen once and then jump in or like me, do you digest the information slowly and try to understand the logic of any published material, written or spoken?
For me, this is the real strength behind some of the online forums that have appeared over the last few years. RTC and TSFM have taken this a step further by uniting fans from the different clubs but they all attempting to achieve the same goal, to dissect what’s being said and provide the customer with another point of view based on known fact at that time. None of the “I heard this from a guy in the pub” or “my sources close to the manager” or what has now become the norm, a simple copy and paste of a released statement without comment or critique.
So where am I going with this? Well I took some time to think about it and my view is that MG was simply attempting to convey a reality, the radical element within the ranks would not be happy if titles were stripped. MG personally believes this punishment is wrong and hopes that if it should occur then the fans should let their voices be heard, where he made the mistake is simply in the terms used (“kick off” and “civil war”). If his view is that the punishment is harsh then he is entitled to say “hope”, it is the other terms that are questionable. I don’t believe for a second (and trust me when I say I have little respect for most of the Scottish Media) that MG was trying to make threats or incite, unfortunately that can be the outcome when you allow emotion to take over from the logical thought process and he/they should have understood that point.
In actual fact, kicking off isn’t the real issue here in my opinion, it is the follow up question of “Civil War” as that takes it from an SPL/SFA versus RFC to everyone in the country versus RFC.
Just as a little exercise to understand you own motivations, try replacing the removal of titles issue with the share issue and you can see where my thought process was:
—————————————————
Jim Delahunt: “… if they do shaft the fans through the share scheme, what do you think will be the reaction of supporters on the ground?”
Mark Guidi: “The Rangers fan’s will be up in arms and I hope it’ll kick off.”
Jim Delahunt: “Civil war, isn’t it?”
Mark Guidi: “Yeah”
—————————————————–
“Civil” now becomes RFC versus TRFC (in its many forms depending on which Sevco owns what), how many of us would be outraged at the use of “kick off” or “Civil war” in that context?
So for me it’s simple, the terms used where not the problem, it was the context in which they were used that concerns most.
Something doesn’t add up. What is essentially a non-ssue has split the forum and removed folks attention from more pressing issues. Even people I thought were respected members of this blog are now confirming without a shadow of a doubt that Mr Guidi did say what you, Observer, believed him to say. At the same time you’ve alienated a few others who would rather err on the side of caution when interpreting a few garbled words of internet audio. If you wanted people to dismiss this blog as a place frequented by obsessive, bickering internet bampots then you’ve supplied the very ammunition they need. By all means carry on your campaign, but why continue with it on this blog when the issue is so divisive? No doubt this post will elicit a flood of TDs along with other posts that have not supported your interpretation. Those TDs may actually be another sign that this blog is becoming far too easily influenced by partisan politics.
Observer, how would you have reacted if a radio presenter repeated your words on air? A letter to Ofcom?
“PPS: You do realise that this country is at war, don’t you??”
“Phew: can the people calling me a cloth-eared, deaf, trouble-making fantasist please back off now?”
“Glasgow – you are a sick, sick culture feeding on hate & violence.”
“Get yr brain out of the West of Scotland for five mins, eh?!!”
“That is it. Undisputed. Now, go work out who is a “Celtic man” or a “Rangers man” in that and you are deranged!!!”
I agree Danishpastry, any reasonable person looking at the ‘Guidi’ debate would wonder why it has attracted so much attention on this site. An ill chosen statement on a live show is not worth this amount of the blogs collective energy.
We are in the calm before the biggest storm of all and a little patience is required …
October 10th is here!
Danish, correct as usual. The lack of stand-up comedy from Mr Charles and his chums has allowed us to go off on a tangent again, in vaguely worrying fashion.
Worrying because the “I hope” thing indicates exactly the kind of “obsession” that feeds the standard retort of the TRFC bear.
Best course of action is to leave it on the back burner.
The point has been made that some people believe that A Bloke might have said something fleetingly and stumblingly* on the radio. That’s as far as it goes.
If things don’t go TRFC’s way over the next few weeks, I don’t think the bears will require to refer to MG’s half-heard comment as a rallying point.
Therefore, its relevance is highly debatable at best.
(*”stumblingly” may be a word I just made up there.)
Jesus. Still on the “I Hope” business?
In the past 48 hours we have posted on here:
– An interview with Campbell Ogilvie by Tommy the internet bampot which should have been dissected on here, but wasn’t.
– A statement by Malcolm Murray in which he clearly, if inadvertently, lets the cat out of the bag in terms of how Green and co view the impending shares issue ie pocket money for themselves.
– An article by an American finance expert who is claiming that Sevco will go t1ts up.
– RTC and Barcabhoy making strong hints that a nuclear event is about to be unleashed.
Eyes on the balls, please.
I blame James Sanderson for all this Radio Clyde stuff…………..
http://were-you-at-the-game.blogspot.com/2011/08/were-you-at-game-how-radio-clyde.html
john clarke says:
Tuesday, October 9, 2012 at 00:23
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allyjambo says:
Monday, October 8, 2012 at 22:47
‘ ……the money men are pretty much all foreigners and don’t care about right and wrong..’
—–
AJ, I must chide you here.
The money men behind CG may indeed not care about right and wrong.
But ( if that is the case) it would be because they are INDIVIDUALLY rotten human beings, not because they are ‘foreigners’!
The fact that some of our minted pillars of the establishment may be rotten and corrupt does not mean that you and I are necessarily so, just because we are of the same race and country.
We must not allow ourselves to think like scum.
______________________________________________________________________
John, I completely agree with you, to suggest that ‘foreigners’ are automatically rotten human beings is very wrong, and indeed the kind of thing ‘scum’ might think. So feeling very chided 😉 However, the use of the conjunction ‘and’ doesn’t infer that ‘foreigners’ don’t care about right and wrong. Had I been suggesting that, I would have used the adverb ‘therefore’ ie ‘they are foreigners, therefore don’t care about right and wrong.’ What I wrote was as follows:
‘the money men are pretty much all foreigners and don’t care about right and wrong’
Perhaps it would have been better to write ‘and ALSO don’t care about right and wrong’.
Perhaps the use of the word foreigners was a mistake too, I could have used ‘overseas’, but wanted to convey the fact that they had little or no connection to Rangers, Glasgow, Scotland or even Britain and to say ‘overseas’ investors would not have conveyed that, ie Alistair Johnston lives and works overseas but clearly has very strong links with Rangers, Glasgow etc.
If I ever again write something that somehow makes me appear xenophobic, please pick me up on it, for I can assure you, I am not, in the least, xenophobic and would hate to think anyone thought of me that way. It is one of the things, and probably the main thing, that causes me to feel the way I do about Rangers, and the worst elements of their support, and the tacit acceptance of their bogitry by their silent majority (if indeed the majority remain silent).
Hope that clears that up, John, and you can re-read my post and let me know if you think what I said holds water 😉
TO TSFM
I’d rather just ban any post that is linked to ‘Guidigate’ but perhaps the best thing would be to set up a separate page for those who want to discuss and foresically examine the matter. I know some people obviously want to fill the wee small hours with some chit chat but it is getting ridiculous.
I cannot be the only one who is finding the multiple posts jamming up the blog as being a massive pain in the ercky.
We have much much bigger fish to fry.
If this is what we have become then is it any wonder some of the RTC big hitters may not be too keen to post.
If this isn’t sorted soon the issue is in danger of becoming our own ‘Orange Strips’.
doontheslope says:
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 at 09:23
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In the past 48 hours we have posted on here:
– An interview with Campbell Ogilvie by Tommy the internet bampot which should have been dissected on here, but wasn’t.
– A statement by Malcolm Murray in which he clearly, if inadvertently, lets the cat out of the bag in terms of how Green and co view the impending shares issue ie pocket money for themselves.
– An article by an American finance expert who is claiming that Sevco will go t1ts up.
– RTC and Barcabhoy making strong hints that a nuclear event is about to be unleashed.
Eyes on the balls, please.
******************************************************************************************
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Radio Clyde Super Score Board? Car Crash radio populated by a well known bunch of roasters, why anybody would listen to it goodness only knows, but if you listen to and/or get upset by it then you only have yourself to blame imo. Switch it off – that will focus their minds on improvement far more than any complaints will do.
wottpi says:
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 at 09:46
I quite agree. I would hope MG will reference to this tonight and give an explanation so all this may end. If he does there are those amongst us who will think no further of it and go on with their lives as they did at the start. There are those however who will then post a link to a recording of what he says and debate it still further. I can here the cries ” he didn’t go far enough” “he’s a lier” “sack him”
After all this has there been any civil disturbance.?….no…..will there…..no. lets move on.
hi I was hoping someone could answer a question for me,
as far as the non payment of tax and PAYE at old co. rangers from last year is anyone accountable for this amount or is it written off after liquidation.
please excuse me if this has been discussed or my ignorance for not knowing as I am interested but not qualified to know.
Yours gratefully
merky999 says:
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 at 10:15
======================
The PAYE and NIC that MBB didn’t pay and used to run RFC(IA/IL) last year will be added to to the other monies owed to HMRC. They won’t receive much if anything as the money Mr Charles and his cohorts paid covered D&D’s costs and other legal bills to do with the Administration process.
I see there is a thread running on RM this morning asking that if RFC(IA/IL) win the BTC can the new company buy the old company and merge the two. In the very unlikely event that they did win there is still the tax bill from last year to contend with so any merger is a non starter.
Someone a lot more intelligent than me once said on here/RTC that “everyday is a school day”. It’s “birlie heid” time for me on private share issues. Perhaps our knowledgeable “city” contributors could give a short, easily digestible précis on requirements and timescales for such an issue, compared to an IPO.
I tried trawling the net, but the myriad articles were flying at a considerable height above my understanding.
One article did interest me on the allotting of shares. In my ignorance, I assumed that someone in a company startup, simply came along and put in X amount of cash and received Y number of shares, where Y was the capital sum put in divided by the startup price of the share. This article said there were other ways of putting in the initial capital via loans. This way, by virtue of the loans being secured (?), in event of future liquidation, then there is a better chance of getting one’s money back.
http://www.companylawsolutions.co.uk/topics/how_many_shares_should_a_company_have.shtml
Is there any way of knowing whether Charlie and his syndicate put the capital into newco (whichever one that it was) as “readies” or was it done via the “loans” route? The former, to me, would show a bit more commitment than the latter in the much lauded Sevco renaissance. For a Spiv, the latter would be perhaps a better bet I suppose.
In one of Sevco’s recent publicity tour handouts, the share subject was mentioned.
“SHARE ISSUE
22,690,000 shares have already been issued – these are with the initial backers (consortium). IA estimates a further 22M+ in the next round. The minimum investment is 500 shares. IA was asked what price will one share cost? He explained that a bunch were traded at 50p early on, and more recently 1M where traded at £1. He estimates somewhere between £1-£1.50 per share, it will be finalised when the value of the club is established.
As there are a duplicity/multiplicity of Sevco related companies, which one was he referring to?
Ach! Enough! Nae wonder ma heid’s birlin’!!!! Let’s have a more easily understood discussion on quantum physics. Now, about Schrödinger’s cat, ………….?
allyjambo says:
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 at 09:43
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However, the use of the conjunction ‘and’ doesn’t infer that ‘foreigners’ don’t care about right and wrong. Had I been suggesting that, I would have used the adverb ‘therefore’ ie ‘they are foreigners, therefore don’t care about right and wrong.’
——
That’s how I read it, Mr Jambo. Open to misinterpretation, though, I guess.
“Therefore” would, of course, in this case be a “conjunctive adverb” before anyone starts on about how adverbs provide expansive description for verbs.
Yours,
Aberdeen Grammar Police (Off Topic Division).
Popped over to the man with the wee white bricks, to see if anything nuclear had been posted. Nope, just a call for Rangers to start making friends in the SFL. In amongst the ramblings and conspiracy theories, he has an unstated point, the boycott and isolationism so beloved by the lunatic majority is in fact damaging the club.
Will the fans listen?
Rangers Financials:
Just thinking do we know who Rangers current bankers are, have LLyods BOS moved out? Mr Green unless he has a seriously big pot of cash or a large overdraft facility must be having interesting meetings with his business banking manager every week/month. I would suspect he’s having to provide expected cash flow senarios weekly and monthly and I would guess he isn’t acheiving them. I don’t doubt that in those figures there have been expected results in cup games and cup runs which haven’t gone to plan and he’s had to find alternatives means of bringing the cash in, cross bar challenge comes to mind.
How lucky!!!!!! has he been in managing to get cup games at Ibrox because if these were away from home on a continual basis further cash income would be required to keep the banker and debtors from his door. On those supplying into Ibrokes are they getting cash up front, paid in 30 or 60 days or not at all? If I was a supplier I would have been looking for a deposit or security of sorts. Without a credit record as a new company he would find it very difficult if not impossible to get a company car or the likes from a finance company. So Mr Green how are you keeping things going, have you got deep pockets or a sympathetic banking manager?
theglen2012 says:
Tuesday, October 9, 2012 at 23:11
Regarding ownership of Ibrox, Murray Park and Albion Car Parks, was there not a post on RTC with a screen grab from the Scottish Land Registry? I think it showed a transfer from the Administrators of RFC to Sevco Scotland.
==============
I remember that post too, and the current ownership of these properties is an important issue which we could perhaps discuss without getting diverted into our very own little civil war? (I should say that I agree entirely with Doontheslope’s words of wisdom posted at 9.23) We might even be able to throw some light on the matter, given the collective range of knowledge and experience on this forum.
I would have expected the properties to be transferred to Sevco by the Administrators as part of the Green deal, but I would also have expected those properties to be separated from the football company almost immediately, but in a way that was tax efficient regarding stamp duty.
I am at a disadvantage here, since my knowledge of the law of property is confined to England, and the situation may well be different in Scotland. In England it was certainly possible for the beneficial (true) owner of a property to be different from the legal owner, whose name appears in the Land Registry.
So I’m relying on the Scottish legal eagles here. Does anyone know what the Registry entry for Ibrox and Murray Park currently shows? How long can it take for a new owner to appear on the Register? Is there a time limit for notification? And finally, is it possible (as in England) for the true owner to hide behind a nominee?
Banger Mcgraw says:
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 at 10:32
Thanks for sharing – so what are you waiting for? as this “info” is reputedly online, gonnae take Jack’s tiddler out your mouth and provide a link? Can’t wait for the court case then if true, you know, the one where the Mint and all his failed-former-“business”-directors get their filthy washing strung out in public. That’ll be same failed-former-“business”-directors who sat and fiddled their sums and twiddled their thumbs, I’ll assume they were at least opposable, whilst everything around them came crashing down? Do you think they ever read any of the statutory rules and regulations for Directors available via Companies House?
monsieurbunny says:
Tuesday, October 9, 2012 at 23:35
nowoldandgrumpy says:
Tuesday, October 9, 2012 at 21:11
I heard the Sevco cut from the Stirling game was £4,000.00
Not A Lot as someone famous said.
————————————————————————–
Actually it was less than that, it was £0,000.00
Scottish league teams keep home gates except in cup games.
Or if they did get £4,000 I hope the police have good descriptions of the guys who took it.
====================================================================
Heard the £4k figure but was told it was wrt a game against Kelty(Was this the postponed testimonial for the guy who was sent off for kicking a dog last season)?.
the story goes TRFC sold 800 briefs at £5 and retained the £4k as their expenses.
I’m surprised no one else has made more of Malcolm Murray’s Whyte-ensue PR piece in relation to current costs.
The Forbes article calls out graphically the ridiculous excesses of the previous regime in terms of salaries and benefits to all and sundry at RFC(IA). It also confirms the staff costs to revenue ratio, specifically.
Fast forward a few months and yes the hangers on and meeters and greeters have gone, so have the Audis, apparently, but we now have Green trying to tell us his squad only costs £6m to run. If the players ‘only’ cost £6m what do the rest of the staff cost? They’ve all TUPE’d over and there’s not been a single redundancy as they’re all too good to let go and will all be needed in future.
If staff costs have been dramatically trimmed, how did D&P manage to lose £4m – of Creditors money – during the period up to the sale of certain assets.
Put simply the Forbes article quoted hard numbers, pointed out the back hole in the balance sheet yet Murray’s piece yesterday tries to claim costs have been adjusted to reflect income, when outwardly nothing has changed; fixed costs stay the same and overnight stays at hotels are still required for each away game.
I keep wondering when the penny will drop?
Andrew Woods says:
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 at 10:31
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merky999 says:
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 at 10:15
======================
The PAYE and NIC that MBB didn’t pay and used to run RFC(IA/IL) last year will be added to to the other monies owed to HMRC. They won’t receive much if anything as the money Mr Charles and his cohorts paid covered D&D’s costs and other legal bills to do with the Administration process.
I see there is a thread running on RM this morning asking that if RFC(IA/IL) win the BTC can the new company buy the old company and merge the two. In the very unlikely event that they did win there is still the tax bill from last year to contend with so any merger is a non starter
thankyou for the help mate
On ‘guidigate’ I have given my opinion and realise it’s not ‘nuclear’ just a little irritating. Let’s hope the nuclear stuff comes soon 🙂 🙂 Friday seems like a good day 🙂 🙂 🙂
Banger Mcgraw says:
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 at 11:01
Google is your friend, I do not think it is something that should be published on line or should have been, I am merely letting posters know it is out there.
=======================
Is it just me, or is that the lamest post ever posted anywhere?
Thoughts from the doughnut aka GCHQ concerning Gudigate and Zombiegate.
It is now beyond doubt what Guidi and Delahunt said on Clyde as can be demonstrated by Bauer Radio’s responses. What Guidi meant by “and I hope it’ll all kick off” can only be answered by Guidi. What disconcerted me was Delahunt’s tone in his interjection of “Civil war isn’t it?”. It was almost gleeful in his anticipation of the switchboard being jammed with outraged callers.
However the real issue here is the deliberate manipulation of the podcast. It is positively sinister and Orwellian and shows the lengths to which the media can and will go to manipulate it’s audience and it’s power to do so.
Which brings us to the more serious issue of Zombiegate and the banner in question.
There are many genuine photographs of the banner for which Celtic have been reported. However it would appear that the image that was published in a certain brand of toilet paper had a shamrock Photoshopped onto the gunman. How many people would be involved in this fabrication and how far up the chain off command this would have to go before the presses would roll is worth investigation.
Gudigate could be put down as two fools with loose tongues and few brain cells wittering on radio but the calculated acts and decisions involved in printing a fabricated photograph designed to inflame moves things onto a completely different level of cynical manipulation.
As the saying goes “a picture is worth a thousand words” especially to those whose lips move as they read.Everything that appears in the media should be viewed with suspicion and a cynical eye but in Scotland it would seem that what appears in the MSM should be viewed with contempt.
verselijkfc says:
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 at 10:54
Banger Mcgraw says:
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 at 10:32
Thanks for sharing – so what are you waiting for? as this “info” is reputedly online, gonnae take Jack’s tiddler out your mouth and provide a link? Can’t wait for the court case then if true, you know, the one where the Mint and all his failed-former-“business”-directors get their filthy washing strung out in public. That’ll be same failed-former-“business”-directors who sat and fiddled their sums and twiddled their thumbs, I’ll assume they were at least opposable, whilst everything around them came crashing down? Do you think they ever read any of the statutory rules and regulations for Directors available via Companies House?
_________________________________________________________________________
Think Bangers info is connected to this “scoop”.
http://www.vanguardbears.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=292:the-hmrc-employee-a-the-rangers-tax-case
Banger McGraw,
The reason this blog exists is to bring information into the open.that way we can weigh-up everything then decide what we think may be happening.
I don’t have any time for anything published by the VB but by putting the info here,everyone can read then form their own opinion.
FWIW,the VB story is all nudge nudge,wink,wink etc.Not a bit of evidence but a couple of names made public(We’ve seen this before).If they have any evidence,let’s see it.
torrejohnbhoy says:
cheers for the context/link – might have a wee shuftie later. Is a “virtual” wire-brush and dettol provided for such sites? FWIW I’m guessing RTC is from within the MIH stable (not the dead-club side – they have zero concience) and nowt to do with hmrc.
We have now had the facts established re- guidigate – well done to those who pursued it to that end – but pending further investigation by his employers and those to whom the complaint has been registered I suspect there is nothing new to add here, now.
He and the show’s producers, have to explain his comments to those responsible for his employment and to the complaints authority. Once that process has been gone through and hopefully details published then it may be worth looking at further. The minutiae of context is important but what we are doing here is now beyond legitimate enquiry and into the realms of pure speculation and supposition. No-one here is Marco Guidi – and thus none of us can state exactly what the “I hope” actually referred to,. That it be referred is absolutely correct.
I heartily applaud those who heard the comments and drew the attention of those to whom it should be drawn. They have succeeded in their aim – and one of the stated aims of the blog to hold the media to account. A relatively small but significant achievement in my eyes.
verselijkfc says:
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 at 11:35
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torrejohnbhoy says:
cheers for the context/link – might have a wee shuftie later. Is a “virtual” wire-brush and dettol provided for such sites? FWIW I’m guessing RTC is from within the MIH stable (not the dead-club side – they have zero concience) and nowt to do with hmrc.
=========================================================================
verselijkfc,
The content of your initial response to Banger Mcgraw was spot on except for your demeaning sexual reference. Mcgraw may or may not be fishing but at least s/he didn’t post details of the VB latest witch hunt. You now speculate on the locus of RTC – why? I’d suggest that that’s a subject best left alone.
Parson St. Bhoy says:
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 at 11:14
However it would appear that the image that was published in a certain brand of toilet paper had a shamrock Photoshopped onto the gunman.
——
Did it? I thought the shamrock was just mentioned in the text of the “story” printed (and then removed from the web version) of the Daily Ranger.
The photoshop version appears to have been done on a Celtic forum, according to this thread:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056731570&page=54
Sadly any reports of “Civil War ” or ” Kicking Off” should not be dismissed too lightly.
I have had a few reports from friends in Stirling telling how several city centre public houses
were trashed on saturday afternoon. There was also an incident at the train station where
a small army of Zombie followers had a stand off with a huge Police presence.
Not very pleasant for the residents & God only knows what the Tourists made of this. They probably thought that Bannockburn was still going on !
I have still to find any newspaper that mentions any of this. Why ?
The Press have a ” DUTY ” to help to protect Society , not just one corrupt football club.
Old or New.