The outbreak of internecine warfare at RIFC is being acted out through a real pea-soup fog right now. The war is being fought on so many fronts that it is difficult to see just exactly how many armies are involved, and how the alliances are shaping up.
Craig Mather would appear to be in the Charles Green camp, but it is difficult to imagine that he would be happy to hear old blunderbuss-mouth peppering Ally McCoist with shot. McCoist’s in-character but inelegant riposte, whilst a valiant attempt at deflection and self-preservation, put his mentor and chairman, Walter Smith in a rather awkward position. It gives Mather a double headache as he tries to head off Clyde Blowers boss Jim McColl – and his blowhard ally Paul Murray – at the EGM-pass.
If Mather stands by Green, and Smith does the same for McCoist, then the two main officers of the company will be in opposite, and hostile, camps.
As I say, making sense of it is difficult, but one thing is as clear as an empty window frame: the acrimony, which has been in existence for months, is only now being aired in public because the season ticket drive is over. The one policy that the warring factions have been in agreement with is “Not in Front of the Children”.
Now that the fans have been compelled to buy season tickets in substantial numbers through a mixture of fear, loyalty and a never-ending stream of press spin telling them that “Rangers are on the cusp of greatness if only the supporters cough up”, it seems acceptable that the real war can begin – but what is the prize?
There can be little doubt that all of the factions are aware that a conservative business model is necessary if Rangers are to establish themselves in Scottish football – certainly a more conservative one than that followed by RFC (IL). I infer therefore that the war is not over a Murray vs McCann approach. My best guess is that the war is one of ideals – between one faction which aims to make as much money in the short term as possible, and another which, whilst not averse to a bit of nest-feathering, sees the health of the club and the notion of a continuity Rangers as paramount.
The trouble for Rangers fans is that it is the former faction which holds all the cards – all the shares in fact. I think that all fans of the game of football would hope that people with football at heart would win out here, irrespective of what their partisan loyalties dictate on a day to day basis.
The problem for either warring faction is that the loyalty of the Rangers fans is finite. The “long road (back)” to the top is one which might engage them for while. It is a great journey which is not without its rewards and adventure, but expectations will be massive if and when they get to the top league. When the acceleration of progress meets the buffers of premier championship aspiration, gate money will be in the front passenger seat. Managing unrealistic expectations is extremely difficult, and evidenced by the use of McCoist’s recruitment sledgehammer to crack the nut of the bottom two divisions.
But here are some questions to which I honestly do not know the answer;
- How does the Rangersness faction wrest control away from these spivs?
- How will the spivs attempt to ensure that the Rangersness faction fails in their objective?
- Can the people in the Rangersness camp REALLY be trusted to act in the best interests of the club even if it is at odds with their own? This, given the close association with the terminal decline of the club they all profess to love.
- Is there any realistic scenario which allows this club to prosper and challenge for honours within a ten to fifteen year period?
My belief is that the key to the new club being able to establish itself is managing the expectations of the fans. Despite the MSM willingness to cut and paste RFC and RIFC press releases unadulterated, the ability of that same MSM to impress a message of realism into Rangers fans is zero. Not in front of the children in fact.
Is it really a sociological bridge too far to expect Rangers fans to turn down the expectation-ometer? I don’t believe it is. In the eighties, if I recall correctly, a seriously underachieving Rangers team were not met with demands for big spending. There was pressure on them to get better managers who could pick better players, but no demands for Fort Knox to be breached. If Rangers fans really want a club called Rangers playing in blue at Ibrox, and competing fully in the game, they need to find leaders who can sell the long-termism of such an aspiration. Many will hope, including the spivs and the MSM, that no such leader emerges.
Did someone mention Octopus?
http://t.co/a93O3nFKzF
Folks
The Ticketus enigma will likely be laid bare here:
Lets not forget this one has still to hit the fan. Likely in October. (any legal chaps got the date in the court calendar yet?
This I think is CG s (Really CW IA and Rifat),s exit date. Don’t expect accounts before this court date announced OR the whole mess transferred to some other startled buyer. This one could attach prison time.
Cohen & Stephen (The Liquidators of Rangers FC) & Ors v Collyer Bristow
Late 2013, 5-10 days, Chancery Division
For the claimant Cohen & Stephen (The Liquidators of Rangers FC):
South Square’s Mark Philips QC leading South Square’s Stephen Robins previously instructed by Taylor Wessing partner Nick Moser, taken forward by Stephenson Harwood partner Stuart Frith
For claimants the Trustees of the Jerome Group plc Pension Fund:
Outer Temple Chambers’ David E Grant, instructed by trustees David Simpson, who is also a qualified barrister
For the claimants HMRC:
South Square’s Lucy Frazer
For the claimants Merchant Turnaround:
Maitland Chambers’ James Clifford and Matthew Smith of the same set, instructed by Macrae & Co’s Julian Turnbull
For the respondent Collyer Bristow:
3 Verulam Buildings’ Cyril Kinsky QC leading Matthew Hardwick of the same set, instructed by Clyde & Co partner Richard Harrison
.
The financial collapse of Rangers FC put in the public eye the club’s relationship with its professional advisers, including Collyer Bristow and former partner Gary Withey.
Withey quit the firm in March after he became embroiled in the Glasgow club’s administration because he had advised businessman Craig Whyte on his takeover of the club in 2011.
Duff & Phelps were appointed as the original administrators of the club and, in March last year, announced it would take action against the firm.
When liquidators Cohen & Stephen took over the wind-down of the club it pledged to carry on the case. The firm has lodged a Part 20 claim against private equity firm Merchant Turnaround.
Collyer Bristow stands accused of “deliberate deception” over Whyte’s doomed bid for the club.
The court heard at a pre-trial hearing in April that Collyer Bristow is alleged to have been involved in conspiracy, breach of undertaking, negligence and breach of trust, with Withey – who acted as the club’s company secretary – complicit in the allegations.
It was revealed that when Whyte agreed a majority stake takeover offer in May 2011 he also pledged to pay off the club’s £18m debt to Lloyds Banking Group and invest £9.5m of “new money” in the club. This included £5m for players, £2.8m to HMRC and £1.7m for capital expenditure.
That offer persuaded then director Paul Murray and the board not to launch an alternative £25m share issue to generate the money needed to stabilise the club. Instead, the court was told, they agreed to Whyte’s takeover, with Collyer Bristow acting for Whyte.
Administrators were called in February 2012 and various parties – including HMRC, private equity firm Merchant Turnaround and Jerome Pension Fund trustees – lobbied to reclaim their stakes in Rangers.
The firm says it will vigorously defend the claims. Withey had originally applied to intervene in the case, but has now withdrawn his application.
This battle will be closely followed by firms and fans alike as it promises to lay bare the firm’s relationship with Whyte and the club.
Willie Vass’s photies of last night’s game seemed to show a good crowd at Ibrox, does this mean that all the speculation about safety certificate was again just more wishful thinking?
Exiled Celt says: August 7, 2013 at 10:25 pm
————————————
Tic 6709 says: August 7, 2013 at 8:42 pm
———————————————————
Like athlete’s foot, he will resurface at some point….
———————————————————————-
Guess how Pritchards managed to show accounts for 2011 to remain solvent (ahem …. appear solvent) !
…. a strange property deal
From B7 article ….
In November 2010, Gillespie set up a property firm called Enterprise House Developments and lists Pritchard as a shareholder.
In most recent annual accounts to June 30, 2011, Pritchard Stockbrokers reported an annual profit of £18,000.
It would have posted a loss of £432,000 if not for a £450,000 red book revaluation gain on a property held by Enterprise House Developments, a company Pritchard held a 16.8 per cent stake.
The owner of that property is quite interesting ……. lets just say it has SA connections ….
So why was this … SA connection … aiding Pritchard (Whyte) to remain solvent ….. for a short time !
Remember FSA finally froze all their accounts on Feb 14th 2012 …. quite a day !
newtz at 11.55pm:
I seem to remember the late Corsica (RIP) alluding to the fact that not only Dave King but also Andrew Ellis and Craig Whyte (and possibly even Murray) had property dealings in South Africa.
This was round about the time they were all meeting up in Switzerland. Allegedly.
Then this week a guy I met from the financial world told me Whyte could never return to South Africa because of the people he had stiffed down there over property deals.
I presumed he had got confused.
Does anyone else have info on Whyte and SA?
nickmcguinness says: August 8, 2013 at 12:03 am
——————————————————————–
PM yes
Where there’s a King there’s a Murray
And so up pops King in the Daily Mail surprise surprise!!!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2386569/EXCLUSIVE-Rangers-administration-Christmas-claims-Dave-King.html#ixzz2bKcE1ZCK
EXCLUSIVE: Rangers bidder King fears club could be in administration by Christmas
By Stephen Mcgowan
Rangers bidder Dave King last night claimed the Ibrox club will be in administration by Christmas unless Charles Green lowers his asking price and sells up
Despite losing £20million from a previous investment in the club, the former director is willing to plough more of his personal fortune into a controlling stake in Rangers.
Branding the current share asking price ‘absurd’, however, the South Africa-based businessman says he won’t pour his cash into the back pockets of Green and his associated investors if it means having nothing left for players.
Green has already told potential takeover groups, including businessman Jim McColl and former director Paul Murray, that he wants £14m for a 28 per cent stake.
However, keen to see the club recapitalised via the issue of new shares, King says the Yorkshireman and his cohorts risk losing everything unless they compromise over their selling price.
Speaking to Sportsmail, King said: ‘There is an inevitability to the fact the people currently operating Rangers are going to run out of cash.
‘The club raised £22m via an IPO (Initial Public Offering) and that was whittled down to virtually nothing.
‘I think it was down to £5m or £6m in the bank and has now got a boost via season-ticket sales.
‘But the way directors are spending money on Green’s consultancy fees and other things, I don’t think they will make Christmas.
The question then is: when they go to the markets again, are they going to find other investors willing to put more money in the club?
‘We had all these guys come in and buy into Green’s business plan. They paid 70p a share and witnessed those shares lose value very, very quickly.
‘They are not going to increase their holding and other investors are going to be very, very wary.
‘So if they get to the point where they are close to administration again by Christmas and the season-ticket money is gone and they have the same high overheads and are running out of cash, they will be faced with administration again.
‘And what that will mean is all the shareholders — including Green — losing all their money. In which case, they will have to be realistic about their demands at that stage.
‘The club is being run on the basis of protecting shareholder value — particularly by those who paid nothing for the shares and want to make something.
‘It’s a question of Green making £2m, £3m or whatever. He regards that as his compensation for what he thinks he has achieved.
‘But the way it’s going right now, he could end up with nothing.
‘His priority currently is to make sure he gets something. And he will continue doing that.
‘But the result of that is simple. The club will run out of money.’
King accurately predicted liquidation after Craig Whyte’s reign ended in administration, chaos and financial meltdown.
And he has no wish to see history repeat itself.
Free of financial restrictions — following a confidential agreement with the South African Revenue Service and the unfreezing of his UK assets — the Glaswegian still faces criminal charges in his adopted homeland.
But King believes there is no impediment to his being declared a fit and proper person by the SFA and returning to the Rangers boardroom.
“I am absolutely 100 per cent certain that none of these factors are an issue at the present moment,’ he insisted.
The greater obstacle remains Green’s insistence on seeking 70p for shares that are currently worth just over half that on the stock market.
‘The current regime have made offers of shares to me at various stages and various levels,’ he added.
‘But the amounts on offer are insufficient to exercise any real control — and I have regarded the share price they have been asking for as absurd.
The value they place on their shares is still vastly over-inflated.
‘My view is quite simple. I am happy to put money into the club because I think the club needs money.
‘I am happy to be part of a recapitalisation of the club. But my preference would be to be issued with new shares. And the money I provide must go into the club.
‘And it must be properly controlled and properly managed.
‘Certainly, I don’t see myself or anyone else, frankly, putting money in to pay these guys off.’
newtz ays:
August 8, 2013 at 12:18 am
4 0 Rate This
nickmcguinness says: August 8, 2013 at 12:03 am
——————————————————————–
PM yes
Where there’s a King there’s a Murray
———————————————————————————–
Where there is a Prince Monaco there is a Mr Whyte
Where there is a Mr Green there is always a spiv
Where there is SMSM there is an awful wiff of s****
But where there is dignity we have Mr Walter Mr Smith
Green, King, Johnstone, P Murray, all back – now all we need is Whyte and the show is on.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dv8a1kWFgVw
paulsatim says:
August 7, 2013 at 11:37 pm
2 4 Rate This
Did someone mention Octopus?
http://t.co/a93O3nFKzF
=================================================================================
With respect and reference to the above, I think the club from Govanshire are stuck in their own Groundhog Dei.
I’ve also heard that the Govanshire club’s manager is a big fan of Green Dei.
Incidentally, my name is a mark of respect and an homage to one of our finest contributors. If it leads to any confusion it will, of course be changed.
Can someone let me know the date that a set of audited accounts MUST be produced and what the consequences for an organisation or business would be for non production? The complexity and convolutions of the sevco story are obvious for all to see, whether contrived or not remains to be seen, but some clarity on the accounts and the date of required production would be good. Ta much.
dedeideoprofundis says:
August 7, 2013 at 11:53 pm
9 9 Rate This
Willie Vass’s photies of last night’s game seemed to show a good crowd at Ibrox, does this mean that all the speculation about safety certificate was again just more wishful thinking?
______________________________________
Did the photos include shots of fans in the upper decks of the stadium? If so then presumably there is a currently valid safety certificate for those areas, if not then they don’t point to any conclusion on that issue
“the Glaswegian still faces criminal charges in his adopted homeland.”
“But King believes there is no impediment to his being declared a fit and proper person by the SFA and returning to the Rangers boardroom.”
Bearing in mind we are talking of King facing in excess of 300 charges for fraud etc. how can the above two quotes be reconciled?
To be fair, I do admit the club/company and the likes of King are made for each other.
dedeideoprofundis says:
August 7, 2013 at 11:53 pm
Willie Vass’s photies of last night’s game seemed to show a good crowd at Ibrox, does this mean that all the speculation about safety certificate was again just more wishful thinking?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Can’t see the reason for the TD’s.
While we all know there are upgrading works required at Ibrox, the safety certificate rumour was just another in a line of rumours that have never yeilded fruit.
The big picture is the T’Rangers balance sheet.
Yes people need to look to the small thngs to get a feel for how the bigger pucture is panning out but we shouldn’t get carried away and become over excited with the ‘back of a cab’ talk as more often than not it is a load of rubbish.
I read earlier that Jim McColl’s share investment was in the region of only £4 (Phil Mac)
Surely you could buy four different clubs with that .. and a family size packet of caramel wavers. Any change might get you a couple of blue ribands.
“But King believes there is no impediment to his being declared a fit and proper person by the SFA and returning to the Rangers boardroom.”
Of course not. This is the Sevconian Football Association we are talking about!
Scottish football needs a strong Brechin this weekend.
Free of financial restrictions — following a confidential agreement with the South African Revenue Service and the unfreezing of his UK assets — the Glaswegian still faces criminal charges in his adopted homeland.
But King believes there is no impediment to his being declared a fit and proper person by the SFA and returning to the Rangers boardroom.
“I am absolutely 100 per cent certain that none of these factors are an issue at the present moment,’ he insisted.
>>>>>decision to be taken by Ogilvie and Regan
Would you like one or two sugars in your coffee, Dave?
Charlie is back in full control and with squirrels everywhere we have confusion aplenty.
Thats fun although he likes it that way so he and his are playing us all again.
But where is our hero Charlotte?
After Greenslade gave her valuable column inches she could be riding a wave.
But all at Charlotteville has gone quiet, strangely quiet.
Has Charlotte gone on holiday or is there another reason for her silence?
(And I ask that question because I genuinely don’t know the answer which my advocate pals would tell you is not good practice when asking questions)
And has anyone else noticed that our other new pal’s grammar has gone downhill since posters gave his literary skills special mention after his amazing post-fest last week? Maybe someone else is working on this account this week and the brief has changed?
Bawsman@7:21am
King probably had a wee word in someone’s ear at Hampden,and a wee handshake.Deal done.
Given what’s gone on previously,I wouldn’t put it past them.
So DK might be about to step into the breach .
Another of the old clubs creditors to the tune of 20m (I think).
I remember when DK invested his 20m a caller on SSB asked Derek Johnstone what he wanted for his money and DJ replied “nothing he has just given it to them “,Maybe we will soon see what he wants back for his 20m .
Also I seem to recall that he did not invest his 20m in RFC but Murray Enterprises who then advanced RFC 32m on the strength of Kings investment ,if so how would he be on RFCs creditors list (or is he ).My memory ain’t what it used to be but maybe some of our financial sleuths will know the facts
Derek Johnstone now there’s a blast from the past 😛 SSB seem to have binned him?? Probably for his blood pressure sake than anything else, he’s been very quiet 😆
112 hrs and still no movement from lunny on ANYTHING???
Castofthousands says:
August 7, 2013 at 11:32 pm
—————————————
I too re-read the prospectus, in particular pages 74 et seq. which has the desktop valuation provided by DM Hall., a long established firm of surveyors.
First of all nowhere in the report does it state that the assets are owned either by RIFC or the trading company. It does say on p77 that DM Hall “assumes” that the land is held as freehold (no assumption by which company it is so held) with no encumbrances. That is a big assumption.
Also it states on p75 that the subjects “are held by The Rangers Football Club Ltd for operational purposes”. Again that is a nebulous statement – held under what, a lease, freehold, a handshake ?
In any prospectus of this nature you would expect to see unequivocal proof of asset ownership. John Brown struck a raw nerve last year and it hasn’t stopped tingling.
I did think however all of the recent rumour over the state of Ibrox Stadium was whipped up over-enthusiasm. There was no evidence to suggest the game would be cancelled, on the contrary there was evidence that the council had given the stadium a safety certificate for the next 12 months.
This blog is best when it concentrates on fact and not rumour.
The fact is Rangers are dead.
Wonder what Mr Mcoll’s thoughts are regarding DKs credentials for saving Sevco from the bad peepil
10. fergusslayedtheblues says:
August 8, 2013 at 8:56 am
I’ll have a stab at that one. Is it “since its being shot down a drain anyway to get us back to being the peepil (financial sustainability notwithstanding..) then it might as well be his dirty money as opposed to my silky clean variety”
Close?
slimshady61 says:
August 8, 2013 at 8:53 am
The fact is ‘the club’ is worth jack in financial terms since its a monthly cash drain. Readers of todays DR should bear that in mind for the article that reads “we the peepil will withdraw oor custom, so’s we will”
The fact is the only asset of any value is the property one that no-one apart from Charlie knows the deeds whereabouts.
The fact is CG’s presentation to the markets 8 months ago was selling nothing more than a ransom strip.
The fact is they were told all this several years ago by RTC.
test
smugas… 😆
I would though expect DK to be looking for the gullible to dig deep whilst he set about getting his original investment back .
Could it be that he has been earmarked for a Ibrokes and Murky park lease back in the grand plan to allow him to recoup his loses .
I had suspected that CG was in to get TU investment back and all the cash raised in the last year was actually just paying off the old clubs creditors that were not willing to just walk away .Maybe DK is one of them
valentinesclown says:
August 8, 2013 at 7:43 am
I read earlier that Jim McColl’s share investment was in the region of only £4 (Phil Mac)
Surely you could buy four different clubs with that .. and a family size packet of caramel wavers. Any change might get you a couple of blue ribands.
****************************************************
If talkin’ biscuits, surely you mean enough left for an Orange Club!! I’ll get ma coat!
King has already threatened Minty with the courts,he said his investment was based on lies from Minty. Shocker.
There is more than one way ( allegedly) to put money into a business,you could for instance put money into a fund that was then used by unscrupulous people to entice employees who you could not normally afford.Pay them a percentage of the money that is paid into their bank account,and the rest is yours.
Of course you could not do this with every employee,just a chosen many. and Paul’s your uncle.
Fergus (thanks for putting that song in my head. No really…Thanks)
Interesting view re DK.
Funnily enough I had always thought on DK as a net provider of funds – desperate to sit in SDM’s seat in the box and wear the tie. If in fact, as you say, he would be in it to try to recoup previous donations, especially if CG is trying to do same for TU, then, as Archie would say, OOOFFT!
Now then children, if you have 22m of funds less 12 months significant operating costs how many historic debts of 20m can you repay? Would you say continuing to operate at a loss helps or hinders this situation?
Finloch says:
August 8, 2013 at 8:05 am
“After Greenslade gave her valuable column inches she could be riding a wave.
But all at Charlotteville has gone quiet, strangely quiet.”
—————————
Never one to veer away from idle speculation, I’ll take the opportunity to muse.
Charlotte stated she had tens of thousands of documents which must present an issue with collating information in a sensible fashion. She has offered highly structured information like that on the Discount Option Scheme but at other times has dropped in titbits as circumstances have permitted (e.g. “Frank Blin – A heart of gold, but not so hot on his football grounds.)
Also lately she has gained additional information such as Gary Withey’s ‘surrendered’ laptop. Further, I suspect she may become the focal point for any disaffected person to channel information to.
Like some of our new friends, Charlotte may not be only one person. One Charlotte may not be sufficient.
slimshady, thanks for your interesting observations concerning the RIFC AIM prospectus.
Big Phil’s twitter feed is very interesting.
redlichtie says:August 8, 2013 at 7:58 am
“But King believes there is no impediment to his being declared a fit and proper person by the SFA and returning to the Rangers boardroom.”
—————————————————-
Jack has done a lot of ‘house’ cleaning …… a lot !
nickmcguinness says:
August 8, 2013 at 12:03 am
I seem to remember the late Corsica (RIP) alluding to the fact that not only Dave King but also Andrew Ellis and Craig Whyte (and possibly even Murray) had property dealings in South Africa.
This was round about the time they were all meeting up in Switzerland. Allegedly.
Then this week a guy I met from the financial world told me Whyte could never return to South Africa because of the people he had stiffed down there over property deals.
I presumed he had got confused.
———————————————-
I think he may have got confused ….
How very disappointing!
I just caught the last couple of minutes of the ‘Call Kay’ prog (about ‘Charities’)on Radio Scotland, and was too slow getting a text in to let people know that OSCR seems to be quite happy that monies raised for a charity can be used for other purposes!
Not that that twisted Station would have aired such a text.
Paul Buchanan says:
August 8, 2013 at 10:11 am
valentinesclown says:
August 8, 2013 at 7:43 am
I read earlier that Jim McColl’s share investment was in the region of only £4 (Phil Mac)
Surely you could buy four different clubs with that .. and a family size packet of caramel wavers. Any change might get you a couple of blue ribands.
****************************************************
If talkin’ biscuits, surely you mean enough left for an Orange Club!! I’ll get ma coat!
***********************************************
It’ll be Taxi for Smith & McCoist then! 🙂 (do you still get them?)
Scottish football needs strong Arbroath
Araminta Moonbeam QC says:
August 7, 2013 at 9:29 pm
from PhilMacG on Twitter…
RIFC: Jim McColl FOUR shares. Paul Murray no shares Frank Blin no shares. A total investment in the club of less than FOUR POUNDS.
——————————————————
At 09:44 this morning, someone purchased six shares of RIFC stock for £2.52. Could Jim McColl be making his move?
redlichtie says:
August 8, 2013 at 11:16 am
3
0
Rate This
Paul Buchanan says:
August 8, 2013 at 10:11 am
valentinesclown says:
August 8, 2013 at 7:43 am
I read earlier that Jim McColl’s share investment was in the region of only £4 (Phil Mac)
Surely you could buy four different clubs with that .. and a family size packet of caramel wavers. Any change might get you a couple of blue ribands.
****************************************************
If talkin’ biscuits, surely you mean enough left for an Orange Club!! I’ll get ma coat!
***********************************************
It’ll be Taxi for Smith & McCoist then! (do you still get them?)
Scottish football needs strong Arbroath
______________________________
Biscuit of choice in Ibrox Boardroom (if still made) would be Bandits. I quite liked them actually.
” In any prospectus of this nature you would expect to see unequivocal proof of asset ownership. John Brown struck a raw nerve last year and it hasn’t stopped tingling.”
@slimshady
Am I missing something here, the title deeds have been displayed with the following statement:
” Stockbridge said: “I have the title deeds for Ibrox, Murray Park and the Albion car park. There is speculation Craig Whyte owns them, or Charles, or that the club doesn’t. It is very easily dispelled. ”
I saw no mention of any security over the asests either in the prospectus or interim accounts, why do you assume one exists ?
2 names in the frame to ride to the rescue of Rfc* are Paul Murray and Dave King
as both are former members of the company that suffered an insolvency event they are not elligible
to be part of the new company. The SFA said they had no objection “in principal” to Dave Kings return,
in practice however they would have to openly bend that rule book once again.
Surely they wouldnt
timtim says:
August 8, 2013 at 12:12 pm
SFA Rules Dali style
http://www.art.co.uk/products/p10018557-sb-i874128/salvador-dali-soft-watch-at-the-moment-of-first-explosion-c-1954.htm?sorig=cat&sorigid=0&dimvals=5000126&ui=070924f2d47047a0a780bc2410687d1a&rfid=118834&domain=co_uk&kwid=910581868&gclid=cohv6zlc7bgcftlmtaodzniarg&ctid=1882000930
they wont dilly Dali on this Auldheid
Auldheid says:
August 8, 2013 at 12:04 pm
2 0 i
Rate This
redlichtie says:
August 8, 2013 at 11:16 am
3
0
Rate This
Paul Buchanan says:
August 8, 2013 at 10:11 am
valentinesclown says:
August 8, 2013 at 7:43 am
I read earlier that Jim McColl’s share investment was in the region of only £4 (Phil Mac)
Surely you could buy four different clubs with that .. and a family size packet of caramel wavers. Any change might get you a couple of blue ribands.
****************************************************
If talkin’ biscuits, surely you mean enough left for an Orange Club!! I’ll get ma coat!
***********************************************
It’ll be Taxi for Smith & McCoist then! (do you still get them?)
Scottish football needs strong Arbroath
______________________________
Biscuit of choice in Ibrox Boardroom (if still made) would be Bandits. I quite liked them actually.
++++++++++++++++++++++++
I would suggest Wagon Wheels, but they have fallen off. 🙂
King and Murray hardly minted so chances must be wafer thin.
http://t.co/r2uNKopS0Q
It would appear that the bottles,in time honoured fashion ,are starting to fly down in the Rangers end.
Hartsons Comb says:
August 8, 2013 at 11:20 am
9 0 Rate This
Araminta Moonbeam QC says:
August 7, 2013 at 9:29 pm
from PhilMacG on Twitter…
RIFC: Jim McColl FOUR shares. Paul Murray no shares Frank Blin no shares. A total investment in the club of less than FOUR POUNDS.
——————————————————
At 09:44 this morning, someone purchased six shares of RIFC stock for £2.52. Could Jim McColl be making his move?
===============================
Headline news, McColl more than doubles his shareholding in RIFC as the power struggle continues!
On the biscuit theme……… What about a breakaway 😀 for the walkawayers 😉 sorry that was bad 😀
crumbs, what puns….bring back the fish!
I am sure we have done the fish and biscuit puns already.
I was going to go in a cream puff and say packet in but then IIRC in the past the start of puns was usually a sign of boredom amongst posters during a lull and they were nearly always followed by new developments.
Keep those herring flavoured jaffa cakes coming!!
twoyearsanddone says:
August 7, 2013 at 9:15 pm
Good question. Answer: because they have a business model and a plan and it works.
—————————————————————————————————————————–
.I always thought that Martin o’neil if given a wee bit extra as well as retaining his players he would have went on to even better heights ,celtiic have the money NOW ,just a wee bit more .
————————————————————————————————
Oh dearie dearie me. This is precisely the mentality that killed The Rangers. Thoroughly depressing reading. Has the past two years taught some fans nothing?? Clearly.
At what point would you accept that the ceiling has been reached? Fans who advocate “only a little bit more” are never satisfied. And when they say “just a little more” they don’t really mean a little bit more, they actually mean a lot more i.e. £50K Willo Flood is unacceptable we want £4m Steven Fletcher.
The”speculate to accummulate” brigade say the board should borrow and gamble then cut back if it doesn’t work but these people are never prepared to accept that the time to cut cloth has arrived and the can is perpetually kicked down the road until it all falls down a drain while repeating the mantra “they can afford a little more”. Celtic speculated to accumulate under O’Neil but the collission with the ceiling was coming into sharp focus so the speculation had to be stopped regardless of the success of that era.
Martin O’Neill levels of spending were totally unsustainable never mind adding to the squad he had already accumulated through said unsustainable spending. The squad he had built was already based on unsustainable wage levels never mind adding “just a little more” to the wage bill. This was all predicated on a route into the EPL which never materialised. In the absence of free money from the state courtesy of EBTs, budgets had to be cut.
And incidentally, Gordon Strachan took Celtic to the next level of the Champions League and cut cloth accordingly without the need for “just a little more” which if isn’t vindication of the club’s corporate governance I don;t know what is.
Phil Mac Giolla Bhain’s theory is that CG will try to keep the lights on to give an illusion of a company that is doing well on and off the park making its share sale value higher when he cuts and runs.
The problem now appears to be that the cost of maintaining that illusion might be starting to outweigh the benefits from doing so. Hence CG called back in and talking about cost reduction stuff which is what investors want to hear.
But where is the cost reduction coming from? What is the player wage bill? Is Mathers on £500k a year. Allys wages etc.
Mid September is the date accounts are to be published according to what I’ve read and heard but the SFA should (but probably are not) be in possession of financial information that clubs are required to provide as part of club licensing by end of April 2013 and, in a change from last year, have committed to making it public on their web site.
8.12
Financial Information
Clubs are required to provide a
summary of financial information
drawn from the Audited Accounts
submitted at 8.1.1.
Clubs should be aware that this
information will be made freely
available via the Scottish FA
Website.
Period Ended
Turnover
£
£
£
Wages (Total Payroll Costs)
£
£
£
Wages to Turnover Ratio
%
%
%
Profit or Loss for Period
£
£
£
Net Assets at Period End
£
£
£
Net Debt at Period End
http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/resources/documents/ClubLicensing/Part2:National/Part2Sect8_Legal,Admin,FinanceandCodesofPractice%20Criteria.pdf Section 8.11 and 8.12
This is where the SFA are letting the game down by saying one thing and doing another and why a total culture and top personnel change is required.
Having the necessary info by end of April should be mandatory, if ratified accounts cannot be produced then insist on a basic set that must be or club suspended or deducted points or fined according to what is most likely to make them get their fingers out.
Then before the end of May the SFA publish the above in order to assure supporters that they are not putting their SB money into a black hole. This is the sort of hard infornation in an assurance role that the SFA should be adopting and providing. No more smsm wheeling Walter Smith or Ally McCoist or whoever out to give misleading impressions of sustainability or solidity.
I despair at the lack of leadership from the SFA. Our game is sleepwalking in a swamp of mistrust and the SFA appear not to realise the pathway out is follow their own friggin rules as intended and adhere to the UEFA licensing standards they are supposed to have signed up to (like Article 12 UEFA FFP for instance) not hand Sandy Bryson Captain Ogilvie’s compass. .
SEVCO fans are demanding the answers to 50 key questions on the future of their club. (THE CLUB) !!!!
Supporters will quiz chief executive Craig Mather at an Ibrox summit tonight and will also be given the chance to grill boss Ally McCoist.
Questions on the state of the club’s finances dominate a list drawn up by members of the three main fan groups.
The Rangers Supporters Trust, Supporters Assembly and Supporters Association have joined forces and selected season ticket holders have also been invited to the meeting.
The pow-wow was originally planned for earlier this summer, but pressure of business led to its postponement.
A spokesman said: “The timing of the rescheduled meeting means we can hopefully now be given greater clarity on key issues affecting the club, particularly in light of the return of Charles Green and boardroom developments of the last few days.
“The list of questions is no means exhaustive, but has been compiled by supporters keen for greater transparency on the business model that has been adopted and the individuals currently driving the club.”
Fans are demanding to know the remit of Charles Green’s consultancy post and details of the money he is being paid.
They also want to know the criteria for a seat on the Sevco (5088 / scotland ) board and are looking for answers on the executive salaries and bonus payments being handed out at the club. ( THE CLUB ) !!!!
The spokesman added: “An extensive list of questions has been compiled and we hope supporters select or adapt some of them as we seek answers to important issues.”
The 50 questions from Sevconian fans to Craig Mather:
1. What is the criteria for gaining a seat on the Rangers Board? – Please outline the skills/expertise each member of the board brings to Rangers.
2. Why did Walter Smith Support the removal of two Directors – Phil Cartmel and Malcolm Murray?
3. Charles Green called for an Extra Ordinary General Meeting to remove Cenkos and two Directors. Why has this been approve by the Rangers Board?
4. Since the previous boardroom significant value has been wiped from the company. What answer does the Board have to the Shareholders to explain this?
5. Have Charles Green’s shares been sold? If so, why as there is a lock in Period?
6. There are directors on the board with shareholdings amounting to less than 1%, when supporters combined own up to 12%. Please explain.
7. Did the club purchase Edmiston House as stated in the IPO prospectus?
8. If so, what is the progress on development?
9. Similarly, what is the progress of the proposed relocation of the ticket office.
10. Do you think it prudent that Brian Stockbridge holds the position of Financial Director and Company Secretary?
11. Will this be reviewed, and a Company Secretary appointed in an open employment process to get the best personnel aligned to remuneration for this position?
12. Are all the main institutional investors aware of directors remuneration and are they comfortable will the levels?
13. How does directors remuneration at Rangers compare with other clubs at a similar level?
14. What bonuses were paid to Charles Green and Brian Stockbridge or other Board or Management on winning promotion from Division 3?
15. Executive bonuses should be aligned with shareholders and measured on Financial Performance. What is the Board view on this?
16. Why are Rangers still in a negative monthly trading position well over a year since the appointment of Brian Stockbridge?
17. What is the exact monthly trading loss April, May and June 2013?
18. Of the 22 Million raised in the floatation how much exactly remains?
19. How much of the 22 Million has been spent on fees?
20. Where exactly has the money gone and what was it spent on?
21. Can we see the contract between Rangers Retail and Sports Division from a Shareholders perspective?
22. How much per unit do Rangers make on the sale of a football shirt?
23. What are the details of the Sponsorship with Puma?
24. What are the details of the Sponsorship with Blackthorn?
25. What are the figures on Catering and what is the expected revenue return 2013/2014?
26. What other sources of Income will Rangers have in 2013/3014?
27. Why has the Board sanctioned the addition of 8 players to the playing staff as a Division One Club while the business is sustaining ongoing monthly losses?
28. Why did the Board not go to the market with a view to appointing the best available qualified talent or invite larger existing investors to join the Board?
29. Why did the Rangers Board remove Cenkos as their NOMAD/Broker?
30. Was this performance related if so what were the issues?
31. What Board members proposed and seconded the removal of Cenkos?
32. Please explain why this change of NOMAD/Broker was in the best interest of Rangers and confirm why there was no consultation with Rangers shareholders on such an important decision.
33. What Board members proposed and seconded the appointment of Strand Hanson?
34. What will Strand Hanson offer of value to Rangers that Cenkos could not deliver, and what is the comparative cost from each for their services?
35. Why was the position of CEO not advertised?
36. Is the job description of CEO performance related?
37. Do Rangers have a business plan going forward year one two and three?
38. What is the expected turnover and profit and loss?
39. Is the Business Plan in hard copy that supporters have sight of?
40. Do the Rangers Board stand by the decision to appoint Craig Mather as Chief Executive and do the Board believe this will deliver the best return to the Shareholders?
41. What is the job description and remit of Brian Smart as part of the Rangers Board?
42. Who proposed and seconded Brian Smart to be a Director of Rangers?
43. Was this position put out to the market?
44. What is the CV of Brian Smart both business and football that qualifies his position on the Board?
45. What in detail has Brian Smart contributed and what achievement has Brian Smart delivered to Rangers since his appointment?
46. Is it the view of the Rangers Board that Brian Smart represents the highest calibre of personnel that can deliver what Rangers need to return results to the shareholders?
47. Ditto Questions 41-46 for Iain Hart.
48. Please confirm the remit and job description of Charles Green
49. Please confirm the remuneration for Charles Green.
50. Please explain the timing of Charles Green’s appointment as a consultant.
Steerpike says:
August 7, 2013 at 10:40 pm
8 22 i
So things are actually quite rosy at Ibrox then. Great.
The other day you made a number of comparisons between Celtic and The Rangers based on a very niaive premise that as both clubs are of similar ball park attraction to potential commercial partners, it automatically follows that ergo The Rangers deals with Puma, Blackthorn etc must be earning close to the amounts Celtic’s respective sponsorship and kit deals currently bring in.
Putting aside any debate about the relative merits of respective “worldwide fanbase” etc. this simple kind of thinking does not take into account the dynamic that Celtic, unlike The Rangers, are not sitting at a negotiating table with a gang of wolves clawing at their front door.
In business, jackals can smell the scent of perspiration a mile off.
we could play a good guessing game of how many of the 50 they actually get a straight answer to.
i’ll start with no more than 10 🙄
jimlarkin says:
August 8, 2013 at 1:52 pm
The 50 questions
I didn’t see one asking who exactly owns Ibrox and Murray Park. and whether it is a clean ownership.
That would have been my first question.
jimlarkin says:
50 Questions.
But likely just 2 answers – commercial confidentiality and fully detailed in audited accounts.
Finloch – bullseye
1. What is the criteria for gaining a seat on the Rangers Board? – Please outline the skills/expertise each member of the board brings to Rangers.
============================
Would it be churlish of me to point out that criteria is the plural of criterion, so it should really be “what are the criteria” or “what is the criterion” I would have thought.
39. Celtic Paranoia says:
August 8, 2013 at 1:56 pm
Celtic are associated with several billionaires, real ones. The most prominent being Dermot Desmond.
Tha advantage in that is not that they will provide massive loans or gifts to the club, they won’t and have said so, the club is and will continue to be self financing. The Celtic board make no secret of that. They will sanction reasonable serviceable debt but that is it.
The advantage is that they do not need to take anything out by way of massive dividends, payments, salaries, bonuses or whatever.
Rangers on the other hand have people who have said that they will take massive salaries, bonuses, dividends or whatever they can get. Talk of 100% bonuses on already inflated salaries for getting into the top tier of Scottish football is nothing less than avarice.
Think I’ve Tuped over at last !!
Tif Finn says:
August 8, 2013 at 2:15 pm
1. What is the criteria for gaining a seat on the Rangers Board? – Please outline the skills/expertise each member of the board brings to Rangers.
============================
Would it be churlish of me to point out that criteria is the plural of criterion, so it should really be “what are the criteria” or “what is the criterion” I would have thought.
=====================================================
Not some much churlish as pedantic.
But re the “50 Questions” aye good luck with getting some clear responses there right enough 🙂
Agree 100% with Finloch
WHO owns The Stadium & Training Ground ???
Should be question No.1
Steerpike says:
August 8, 2013 at 12:11 pm
” In any prospectus of this nature you would expect to see unequivocal proof of asset ownership. John Brown struck a raw nerve last year and it hasn’t stopped tingling.”
@slimshady
Am I missing something here, the title deeds have been displayed with the following statement:
” Stockbridge said: “I have the title deeds for Ibrox, Murray Park and the Albion car park. There is speculation Craig Whyte owns them, or Charles, or that the club doesn’t. It is very easily dispelled. ”
I saw no mention of any security over the asests either in the prospectus or interim accounts, why do you assume one exists ?
_______________________________________________
Lights blue touchpaper ……..
keep up SP 🙂
Steerpike says:
August 8, 2013 at 12:11 pm
—————————————-
Sorry, are you confusing me with someone else? I never mentioned the word “security” so don’t know why you raise it in an answer to me. Are you just trying to show you are human with your deliberate grammatical error in a post earlier today and now this mistaken reply? Both seem a tad deliberate
I wouldn’t expect to see that word since it only occurs when assets have been secured. The main gist of my point was that there are no assets per se – no proof anywhere of ownership. In a normal surveyor’s report there would be confirmation that title is registered in the name of [__] etc.
It is striking that the DM Hall report is so sketchy.
The clock is ticking, unlike the corpse which stopped ticking some considerable time ago.
jimlarkin says:
August 8, 2013 at 1:52 pm
Well we can’t go on anymore about the Bears heading blindly towards the abyss.
Credit where it is due, it seems finally some fans are starting to ask some awkward questions. and trying to get heid bummers to give them the answers.
However as others have said, good luck in actually getting any decent answers.
My one question to the Rangers fans would be –
Is this going to be your favoutire song by the end of the year?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CT_08gchS8k
Tif Finn says:
August 8, 2013 at 2:26 pm
Celtic Paranoia says:
August 8, 2013 at 1:56 pm
Celtic are associated with several billionaires, real ones. The most prominent being Dermot Desmond.
The advantage in that is not that they will provide massive loans or gifts to the club, they won’t and have said so, the club is and will continue to be self financing. The Celtic board make no secret of that. They will sanction reasonable serviceable debt but that is it.
The advantage is that they do not need to take anything out by way of massive dividends, payments, salaries, bonuses or whatever.
_____________________________________________________________________________
Not disagreeing with your general point, but I am sure that Dermot Desmond is entitled to around £250,000 each year in dividends arising from his preference shares? I do know that he deferred them a couple of years in a row a while back, and that SOME of his Prefs were converted to voting stock around four years ago, but the liability still exists.
Project Mamba
Involved a counter-investigation into an extradition request by the South African authorities. A prominent businessman was arrested in the UK on an Interpol warrant and was undergoing extradition procedures. Aegis deployed to South Africa and established the enquiring was politically motivated and resolved the issue at source. Once proceedings had been halted in South Africa the UK extradition request was dropped.
http://www.aegistaxllp.co.uk/ourTeam.aspx?member=CHRIS_CHIPPERTON
Just had a look through ‘Doors Open Day’ Glasgow’s Built Heritage Festival brochure. Once a year Glasgow opens the doors of some of its iconic buildings.And guess what? one of them is Hampden! We could all turn up at once and demand to know which cupboard Regan,Doncaster et al are hiding in. We might even come across the rarely spotted Mr Lunny, Brenda.
Brenda says:
August 8, 2013 at 1:20 pm
14 3 Rate This
On the biscuit theme……… What about a breakaway 😀 for the walkawayers 😉 sorry that was bad 😀
==================================================
what about a brand new double decker? Deffo not mint yoyos, though.
Tif Finn says:
August 8, 2013 at 2:26 pm
25 0 i
Rate This
39. Celtic Paranoia says:
August 8, 2013 at 1:56 pm
Tha advantage in that is not that they will provide massive loans or gifts to the club, they won’t and have said so, the club is and will continue to be self financing. The Celtic board make no secret of that. They will sanction reasonable serviceable debt but that is it.
————————————————————-
Exactly as it should be for every football club.
And then you have Graham Spiers writing a column headed – ‘Rangers need a millionaire/billionaire and quick’ or words to the effect.
What was that about you can’t solve a problem with the same mentality that created it?
Re the 50 questions…. I thought their Grand Master Plan was to wait and see how it all pans out, and talk of anything untoward was just timmy wishful thinking and troublemaking?
Stamp your feet with your 50 questions when it’s already too late. Genius!
Recent discussion re title deeds and proof of assets is confusing me.
Were these (or their modern equivalent) not shown and published, eg:
http://thedemiseofrangersinpictures.blogspot.co.uk/2013/05/blog-post.html
showing that the assets are owned by Sevco Scotland (now misleadingly renamed)
Have I missed something?
jimlarkin says:
August 8, 2013 at 1:52 pm
13 0 Rate This
SEVCO fans are demanding the answers to 50 key questions on the future of their club. (THE CLUB) !!!!
______________
they had a few of these when whyte was in charge, and then green had them in for meetings
they both BS them and told them not to tell anyone about what was discussed as their enemies would use it against them if it got out
If Mr McColl is so confident of a majority of votes at a EGM, Why did WS leave voluntarily and why are the bears being prodded to action at every oppurtunity by the real rangers men through their brothers in the MSM.
Glad to have tuped over.
Auldheid says:
August 8, 2013 at 1:46 pm
Very strong point, AH. I doubt anyone could argue with that, especially regarding the importance of letting fans make an informed choice when it comes to paying for season tickets.
What is the best way to make this point to the SFA would you say?
TSFM says:
August 8, 2013 at 3:12 pm
1 0 i
Rate This
Tif Finn says:
August 8, 2013 at 2:26 pm
Celtic Paranoia says:
August 8, 2013 at 1:56 pm
Celtic are associated with several billionaires, real ones. The most prominent being Dermot Desmond.
The advantage in that is not that they will provide massive loans or gifts to the club, they won’t and have said so, the club is and will continue to be self financing. The Celtic board make no secret of that. They will sanction reasonable serviceable debt but that is it.
The advantage is that they do not need to take anything out by way of massive dividends, payments, salaries, bonuses or whatever.
_____________________________________________________________________________
Not disagreeing with your general point, but I am sure that Dermot Desmond is entitled to around £250,000 each year in dividends arising from his preference shares? I do know that he deferred them a couple of years in a row a while back, and that SOME of his Prefs were converted to voting stock around four years ago, but the liability still exists.
—————————————————————————————–
But DD did actually invest his own money did he not?
Chances are that on balance he is in credit re investments against dividends I would have thought although I have no particular insight and could be wrong.
At the end of the day, investors who buy shares are entitled to dividends so it comes with the territory with an PLC. Admittedly preference shares puts you at the front of the queue but I hardly think that’s the most grievous avarice for his time and investment and the amount you quote (a third of Ally McCoist’s salary)
Peter A Smith@PeterAdamSmith27m
SFA’s Campbell Ogilvie says Paul Murray could pass Fit & Proper Person test despite being director at Rangers within 5 years of insolvency.
O.M.G. 😯
Peter A Smith@PeterAdamSmith20m
SFA’s Campbell Ogilvie: Fit & Proper Person rules outline “guidance for the board to consider…each case is considered individually.”
Peter A Smith@PeterAdamSmith15m
SFA’s Campbell Ogilvie: Fit & Proper Person rules wouldn’t necessarily rule out Paul Murray. The criteria is guidance for a board to decide.