Not in Front of the Children

ByTrisidium

Not in Front of the Children

The outbreak of internecine warfare at RIFC is being acted out through a real pea-soup fog right now. The war is being fought on so many fronts that it is difficult to see just exactly how many armies are involved, and how the alliances are shaping up.

Craig Mather would appear to be in the Charles Green camp, but it is difficult to imagine that he would be happy to hear old blunderbuss-mouth peppering Ally McCoist with shot. McCoist’s in-character but inelegant riposte, whilst a valiant attempt at deflection and self-preservation, put his mentor and chairman, Walter Smith in a rather awkward position. It gives Mather a double headache as he tries to head off Clyde Blowers boss Jim McColl – and his blowhard ally Paul Murray – at the EGM-pass.

If Mather stands by Green, and Smith does the same for McCoist, then the two main officers of the company will be in opposite, and hostile, camps.

As I say, making sense of it is difficult, but one thing is as clear as an empty window frame: the acrimony, which has been in existence for months, is only now being aired in public because the season ticket drive is over. The one policy that the warring factions have been in agreement with is “Not in Front of the Children”.

Now that the fans have been compelled to buy season tickets in substantial numbers through a mixture of fear, loyalty and a never-ending stream of press spin telling them that “Rangers are on the cusp of greatness if only the supporters cough up”, it seems acceptable that the real war can begin – but what is the prize?

There can be little doubt that all of the factions are aware that a conservative business model is necessary if Rangers are to establish themselves in Scottish football – certainly a more conservative one than that followed by RFC (IL). I infer therefore that the war is not over a Murray vs McCann approach. My best guess is that the war is one of ideals – between one faction which aims to make as much money in the short term as possible, and another which, whilst not averse to a bit of nest-feathering, sees the health of the club and the notion of a continuity Rangers as paramount.

The trouble for Rangers fans is that it is the former faction which holds all the cards – all the shares in fact. I think that all fans of the game of football would hope that people with football at heart would win out here, irrespective of what their partisan loyalties dictate on a day to day basis.

The problem for either warring faction is that the loyalty of the Rangers fans is finite. The “long road (back)” to the top is one which might engage them for while. It is a great journey which is not without its rewards and adventure, but expectations will be massive if and when they get to the top league. When the acceleration of progress meets the buffers of premier championship aspiration, gate money will be in the front passenger seat.  Managing unrealistic expectations is extremely difficult, and evidenced by the use of McCoist’s recruitment sledgehammer to crack the nut of the bottom two divisions.

But here are some questions to which I honestly do not know the answer;

  • How does the Rangersness faction wrest control away from these spivs?
  • How will the spivs attempt to ensure that the Rangersness faction fails in their objective?
  • Can the people in the Rangersness camp REALLY be trusted to act in the best interests of the club even if it is at odds with their own? This, given the close association with the terminal decline of the club they all profess to love.
  • Is there any realistic scenario which allows this club to prosper and challenge for honours within a ten to fifteen year period?

My belief is that the key to the new club being able to establish itself is managing the expectations of the fans. Despite the MSM willingness to cut and paste RFC and RIFC press releases unadulterated, the ability of that same MSM to impress a message of realism into Rangers fans is zero. Not in front of the children in fact.

Is it really a sociological bridge too far to expect Rangers fans to turn down the expectation-ometer? I don’t believe it is. In the eighties, if I recall correctly, a seriously underachieving Rangers team were not met with demands for big spending. There was pressure on them to get better managers who could pick better players, but no demands for Fort Knox to be breached.  If Rangers fans really want a club called Rangers playing in blue at Ibrox, and competing fully in the game, they need to find leaders who can sell the long-termism of such an aspiration. Many will hope, including the spivs and the MSM, that no such leader emerges.

 

About the author

Trisidium administrator

Trisidium is a Dunblane businessman with a keen interest in Scottish Football. He is a Celtic fan, although the demands of modern-day parenting have seen him less at games and more as a taxi service for his kids.

2,305 Comments so far

Tif FinnPosted on9:43 am - Aug 9, 2013


slimshady61 says:
August 9, 2013 at 9:01 am

=======================

Lest anyone forget.

Sir David Murray ran up enormous debts with the former club, providing the fans with what they wanted and felt they deserved. Domination of Scottish football. If I remember correctly the debts were up to about £70m, years ago.

Sir David went to the fans to try and solve this, he had a major share issue intended to come up with something like £50m to put the club back near a stable financial footing. They got nothing like that, if I remember correctly they came up with between £1m and £2m. He had to juggle numbers between Rangers and his main business to make it look as if the debt had been reduced.

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newtzPosted on9:55 am - Aug 9, 2013


andy says: August 9, 2013 at 2:22 am

One of the early questions of the night came from a member of the Vanguard Bears which criticised the exclusives provided to the BBC and questioned the role of Jim Traynor and asked him to justify his salary.

Mather was quick to highlight his wish for things to be done “discretely” and confirmed that anyone found to be leaking information would immediately be sacked for the offence. Certainly that is good to hear.

Traynor then grabbed the mic and stated: “My salary is the same as my previous two jobs. No more, no less. My job isn’t just about PR. I’m involved in restructuring RangersTV, restructuring other platforms and bringing in Wifi to the stadium. Unfortunately these have been sidelined due to the need for ‘crisis PR’.”

He continued: “The leaks are scandalous, it’s not right. The BBC are banned. They are supposed to be here on Saturday. They have paid to be here but they won’t be getting in. They can complain to the SPFL and it’ll be up to them if they want to sanction the club but hopefully it won’t come to that.”
———————————————————————————————————————-

DOH ………… JT grabbed the mike …………. another exclusive leak …… !

actually a few …. !

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redetinPosted on9:56 am - Aug 9, 2013


Just wondering if anyone knows of a company or individual who might qualify for an AIM award this year. The awards are for those “who have harnessed AIM to help them fulfil their ambition and growth potential in the last twelve months.”

I see one of the sponsors is Octopus Investments. Maybe they have invested in a potential winner of this award. For some companies this would be a welcome addition to a trophy room, and might be seen as equivalent to winning a cup.

http://www.aim-awards.co.uk/nominations_and_shortlist/

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Carl31Posted on9:58 am - Aug 9, 2013


If £22m was raised by share issue, and last season’s income from tickets sold (ST plus gates) plus this seasons STs come to about £20m, then having £10m in the bank now means costs since the current Rangers begun are about £32m by my reckoning.

Arguing that income as quoted in the info published in Dec 2012 did not include this or that, and thus the loss per month figure was an inaccurate number (£1m a month is worse than old Rangers under CW) begs the question of why there is only £10m in the bank now. If income last season (June to June) was greater than has been reported, then so too must have been costs to arrive now at £10m in the bank.

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torrejohnbhoyPosted on10:00 am - Aug 9, 2013


Finloch says:
August 9, 2013 at 8:15 am

The Spivs just want money.
And they want out too, – at least of the messy day to day.
But they will not go without getting the value of their assets.

So I think we will see one of three broad outcomes after some/many inevitable handbags at dawn type skirmishes between the sides.

1 Option one is a full sale of the club and assets to some rich person or persons of the Rangersness persuasion as advertised by Mr Spiers last week.
I think this is very unlikely because it will take more than a few bob and some real belief.

2 A clean purchase of the club but not the company (which owns the assets).
New new Rangers then continue to pay the spivs for the right to play at the spiritual home.
I’d say a version of this will be what happens but not quickly. But it would be the best solution.

3 War for a while and no real action.
The slow train crash continues behind the scenes and the internecine warfare gets worse.
Some good news to keep the bears happy as the team continue to win most games.
But the Spivs control the boardroom until an inevitable financial event leads back to option 2 where the club gets separated from the assets.
Club is sold in a pre pack or out of admin.
Spivs still own the assets and a nice lifetime rental package.
——————————————————————————————————
What price Emotion.
Solutions 1 and 2 commit any potential buyer to the millstone that is Ibrox.Whoever buys either the whole works or just the club with a lease on the stadium will be taking on purchasing/repair costs that’ll seriously impact on the future planning of the club.The spivs know this but also know that Ibrox will not be surrendered easily.It has a emotional value that Green & Co can and will use to exact top dollar for themselves.
The dilemma for any new owner of TRFC is that there is,realistically,nowhere else to go.Hampden will be tied up with the Games and it’s hard to see TRFC playing at Celtic Park.With 34k season tickets the only place that may be available is Murrayfield.I don’t see that happening.
So either someone pays over the odds to remain at Ibrox or the spivs,who have no emotional attachment just liquidate TRFC,leaving themselves with property worth around £25m,or circa 38p per share.Not bad for those who got them for nothing.
Is there a buyer hard nosed enough to move from Ibrox?
That’s the Emotional price.

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ecobhoyPosted on10:03 am - Aug 9, 2013


helpmaboab says:
August 9, 2013 at 9:20 am
Bawsman says:
August 9, 2013 at 7:59 am

Gym Trainer:
“The BBC are banned. They are supposed to be here on Saturday. They have paid to be here but they won’t be getting in. They can complain to the SPFL and it’ll be up to them if they want to sanction the club but hopefully it won’t come to that.”

So there you have it.A fourth rate hack pretending to be a communications officer effectively telling the licence paying public what they can and cannot watch. How long before our football authorities are embarrassed into taking some meaningful action against this mob.ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.
=============================================================
I have to say that I finally realised that Rangers was finished when Traynor apparently told the fan meeting last night – after demands as to what he actually did at Ibrox – that the continual upheaval meant he was involved in ‘crisis PR’.

With Traynor at the PR con then Rangers is truly doomed and the rocks can no longer be avoided as the Great Helmsman blindly blunders on thinking he knows something about PR never mind crisis PR.

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Carl31Posted on10:09 am - Aug 9, 2013


As an aside, JT speaking to fans but not reporters could have been circumvented by the press corps, by popping along to the Gers shop and buying a ‘Gers Fan disguise’. A quick nip back to the group of fans and hey presto!

Made me think of the scene from Life Of Brian, with the women attending the stoning …

“Are there any reporters here!?”
“No … no … no … naw …naw … naw there urny”.

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timtimPosted on10:15 am - Aug 9, 2013


Will we see Ibrox bulging at the seams as the bears amalgamate in a show of strength
to voice their displeasure at the current board?
C’mon bears lets sell out saturday and show these people who they’re dealing with is
a common comment I see on their forums
It almost makes me wonder if the cabal are deliberately rattling the cage
In any other club the stadium would be almost empty but the car park would be full
Craig Whyte went from saviour to villain ,Charles Green went from villain to saviour back to villain again
Walter Smith the saviour just went
Rfc* need a strong glib and shameless villain

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saladariPosted on10:17 am - Aug 9, 2013


From an article in Evening Times…

Green claims he has raised around £34m for the club in three separate investment rounds since its collapse He has criticised club performance, high spending on players and the board’s decision not to raise the cost of a season ticket this year by 10%.

A spokesman for Mr Green said: “Charles Green pleads guilty to the following crimes – saving the club from Craig Whyte and now trying to prevent it from following into the hands of men who haven’t invested a penny.

“Talk is cheap as Paul Murray and Frank Blin have repeatedly proved. Action costs more, more than the £2.80 invested by billionaire Jim McColl.

“As regards Mr Mather it is clear he is confused and intimidated by the fans’ robust actions. Perhaps he should return to a much gentler business atmosphere.

“As for calling a board meeting to discuss Charles, perhaps he should ask his fellow board members before pushing the panic button. Glasgow is a place for big boys not frightened wee laddies.”

:mrgreen:

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y4rmyPosted on10:19 am - Aug 9, 2013


As a publicly-funded organisation it is of course possible to submit an FOI request to the BBC regarding Traynor’s statement.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/foi/requesting_information/

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jockybhoyPosted on10:51 am - Aug 9, 2013


Steerpike: your projections include “increased ticket prices (35%)” – really? The board were presumably so concerned about keeping momentum and indeed the narrative of wounded Bears rallying to the cause, that they held season ticket prices this year, despite leaping up a division, otherwise why would they have eschewed the opportunity to raise prices and bring in more money in their current straitened situation?

Which brings me to a pet subject: price elasticity. What is the curve like for season ticket demand? After all Celtic reduced season ticket prices, alledgedly because they wanted to give something back to the fans off the back on Champs League success, but presumably also because demand was down with the perceived lack of competition/a nemesis in the SPL* nd the negative impression on empty seats on matchday and on TV is a downward spiral.

Now the impression given by NewGers board & the SMSM is that Rangers fans have a base demand at 34,000 based on third division football. Presumably this increases as they move up through the divisions until they reach the footballing and financial nirvana that is the top division in Scotland. What would a price hike of over 1/3 do to that demand? I think it would impact hugely, perhaps dropping it by 20-25% which leads to the loss of narrative and momentum, even if it did increase revenues overall. No I think even if newGers get promoted they’d not risk more than a 10% increase.

For the avoidance of doubt I’m not suggesting Celtic needs any type of Gers to be successful only that their has impacted on revenues, but not in a critical manner.

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wottpiPosted on10:51 am - Aug 9, 2013


http://www.thecoplandroad.org/2013/08/a-look-at-fans-meeting-at-ibrox.html#more

Only read a few lines down and come across this.
——————————————————————————————————————————–
In relation to Charles Green’s comments on the need for a trophy the manager responded by saying that “I won’t put pressure on our players [to win a trophy this season],” before adding that, “our wage bill has come down to around one-third of what it was a couple of years ago.
—————————————————————————————————————————————-

By my reckoning a couple of years ago would be the start of season 2011/2012.
IIRC Green boasted that the wage bill was brought down last year (2012/2013) from £30m to £7m, therefore McCoist’s statement puts the current wages at £20m.
If he really means last year then the wage bill is £4.7m which I find hard to believe.
Either they are totally fecked or no-one has a clue what they are talking about or doing!!

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whispererPosted on10:54 am - Aug 9, 2013


Re cash at bank
What makes anyone think that “readies” would be banked ?
Whether it be from the turnstyles, pie stalls, strip sales etc etc
“Readies” ARE “Readies”
And I reckon would go straight into someone’s sky rocket
Know whot ah mean Guv’nor ! ! !

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ecobhoyPosted on10:55 am - Aug 9, 2013


torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958) says:
August 9, 2013 at 10:00 am

Is there a buyer hard nosed enough to move from Ibrox? That’s the Emotional price.
————————————————————————————————————————–

I think it’s more than an ’emotional price’ as regards to fan attachment to Ibrox and I think this could be overcome and a move reluctantly agreed to if it meant the survival of a Rangers.

However, I doubt if the Ibrox support could accept the emotional shame that they would feel coming from the scorn coming from the Celtic support at losing their hallowed turf. The same would be true in reverse btw.

The only way I think any team like Rangers and Celtic can move without fan problems is when it is successful and cash-rich and able to move to a super-duper modern stadium with every facility including plenty of parking, good access and preferably a good rail/transport links. A new stadium has the advantage of being much more cost-efficient to run as well.

So I don’t actually see an option for Rangers leaving Ibrox for a new stadium. That leaves playing there and rebuilding in stages which obviously will cost revenue with seats lost and the capital costs will need to be met and I’m not really sure how that will be financed as well as building a team that could ever hope to compete in Europe.

There would appear to be a helluva lot of hard financial choices in the future for Rangers and I doubt that Rangersness alone will be enough to balance a very precarious financial tightrope. It would appear that the SMSM have already decided to deflect the hard decisions and choices to be made and turned it into a simple case of getting the Rangers Men back in charge and all will be fine with everlasting sunny blue skies over Ibrox.

When will the ever tell the truth?

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wottpiPosted on10:58 am - Aug 9, 2013


http://www.thecoplandroad.org/2013/08/a-look-at-fans-meeting-at-ibrox.html#more

——————————————————————————————————————————————-
Stockbridge though soon began to evade questions and was unable to provide an answer on the composition of our £10 million in the bank in terms of season-ticket income and IPO cash. We were told that “It goes into the same pot of money. We can’t distinguish between the two.”
——————————————————————————————————————————————-

Is this guy not supposed to be a chartered accoutant as well as the Financial Director.
ICAEW or ICAS standards must have fallen in recent times if a so called professional is coming out with this tosh in a public forum.
What a disgrace!
If this claim is true then they are fecked as they have no idea how money is coming in and going out.
With such nonesense is there any surprise folk don’t believe a word of it.

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tic6709Posted on11:00 am - Aug 9, 2013


y4rmy says:

August 9, 2013 at 10:19 am
As a publicly-funded organisation it is of course possible to submit an FOI request to the BBC regarding Traynor’s statement.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/foi/requesting_information/
=========================
I have just been on to BBC Scotland to register my complaint about the statement made by Traynor,
I spoke to someone who told me that they don’t know if there will be a broadcast or not.
I made it very clear that I am not a supporter of Sevco,but someone who pays his license fee,and as such I want to know what their policy is in regard to the situation. It may be some time before I/we get any more information.

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Hartsons CombPosted on11:02 am - Aug 9, 2013


saladari says:
August 9, 2013 at 10:17 am

From an article in Evening Times…

#####################################

The most eye-popping item in the ET article is:

CG had a spokesman speak for him! We surely do live in interesting time, folks!

Actually, I think the news reporter was simply on the phone with someone who kept stating the name “Charles Green” and the journo concluded he was talking to a third party, failing to realize CG’s love of speaking of himself in the third person.

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y4rmyPosted on11:04 am - Aug 9, 2013


Maybe I misheard, but was it announced last night that it cost 2m to get rid of Goian/Bocanegra?
That’s a lot different to the way it was reported just a month ago:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23111175

“Agreed to terminate their contracts”, indeed.

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SmugasPosted on11:08 am - Aug 9, 2013


Eco

Damned if you do…

The only way I could see an Ibrox exit would be to put one in the eye of whomever was offering it back to you on exhorbitant lease terms. The gamble being what do the owners do (with the hallowed turf) whilst you go off on your presumably temporary journey to Cumbernauld or wherever. No, I’m expecting a full media broadside of King/McColl/insert as appropriate riding in on their chargers to the rescue holding a document with the word LEASE carefully concealed.

But by all means let them buy it lock stock if they wish.

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wottpiPosted on11:13 am - Aug 9, 2013


http://www.thecoplandroad.org/2013/08/a-look-at-fans-meeting-at-ibrox.html#more

———————————————————————————————————————————————
He (Mather) continued, “I don’t think the EGM helps. It costs £60-80k and we already have an AGM around the corner. I’d welcome a call from Jim McColl or whoever. If someone gives me his number I’ll happily pick up the phone and call him.”
———————————————————————————————————————————————
If the CEO can’t find the phone number or a way of getting in contract with a high profile shareholder (albeit it £2 pounds worth) then what hope do they have of dealing with any other hostile shareholders skulking away in the dark recesses of Green’s web.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
When asked about the Yorkshireman’s comments in the media Mather stated that “I don’t give a shit if he is listening, I don’t agree with his comments. It was morally and ethically wrong.”
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Plenty dignity from the new CEO

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The whole Green thing appears to be a shambles. The board has brought him back in an apparently employed him as a consultant but with no contract or conditions that appears to limit his scope or his authority to speak on behalf of the company/club.

Knowing the type of man he is what a bunch of incompetents for not ensuring he was on a very short leash.

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redlichtiePosted on11:15 am - Aug 9, 2013


From Rangers Banter
08 Aug 2013 23:54:57
NO SURPRISES

About 200 supporters held talks with chief executive Craig Mather, manager Ally McCoist, finance director Brian Stockbridge, and director of communications James Traynor at Ibrox Stadium tonight.

During the tense meeting, Mr Mather announced that a board meeting will be convened within the next week to discuss the conduct of Mr Green.

The former chief executive, who returned last week as a paid consultant, has been involved in a spat with McCoist since his return a week ago to the club.

Directors will also take a vote on whether he should remain at the club at the meeting.

=========================================================================

This astonishes me. A CEO effectively making up a Board motion on the hoof at a Fans meeting? And not just something trivial – a motion to dismiss a recently contracted consultant who is also a major shareholder with considerable apparent backing from other shareholders. What are the terms for ending his contract? Knowing CG as we do it will probably be full payment.

And an apparent inability by the FD to break down current funds on hand e.g. and I would have thought crucially, how much is held for the next VAT payment? £2M? More?

Compound all this with a statement from the Director of Communications that they are knowingly about to place themselves in breach of a national broadcasting contract. This could potentially jeopardise the contract or lead to some sort of penalty.

In more innocent times you would describe these guys as a bunch of amateurs. I’m afraid that after all we know the judgement has to be something much, much harsher.

At what point do disrepute charges become appropriate for this Club?

Scottish football needs to the cleanse this stable once and for all.

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ecobhoyPosted on11:20 am - Aug 9, 2013


Just had a look at the Copland Road link and I wonder if what I’m reading means what is says.

In their report of last nights Ibrox meeting it states that Stockbridge stated of the £10 million in the bank £1.5 million has come as income from SportsDirect.

Some may remember the recent piece I did on the Rangers Retail Ltd joint venture between SportsDirect and Rangers. Surprise surprise Rangers can draw-down £1.5 million from SportsDirect under the agreement with the interest payable capitalised. So is the £1.5 million actually ‘income’ or is it the agreed draw-down?

The draw-down is guaranteed by a charge on TRFCL property and the way the Rangers Retail Ltd shareholding is structured SportsDirect can outvote Rangers on any financial matters and there is an escape clause where if any breakdown can’t be resolved then SportsDirect can buy-out Rangers,

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havesomefaithinmagicPosted on11:22 am - Aug 9, 2013


Has anybody ever heard of a Board meeting being required to sack a consultant?

Its a bit fishy.

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john clarkePosted on11:27 am - Aug 9, 2013


I wonder whether and to what extent any of our public authorities ( e.g. Glasgow City Council, the Ambulance Service, Police Scotland ..) are current creditors of RIFC, as they were of RFC(IL).

If they are, I wonder are they taking measures to avoid being stiffed when the new, illicit club enters Admin?

To be stiffed by one set of dodgy people could happen to anybody.

To be stiffed by a further set of rogues would really take the biscuit.

And it would again be our money that would be lost!

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saladariPosted on11:30 am - Aug 9, 2013


Hartsons Comb says:
August 9, 2013 at 11:02 am

saladari says:
August 9, 2013 at 10:17 am

From an article in Evening Times…

#####################################

The most eye-popping item in the ET article is:

CG had a spokesman speak for him! We surely do live in interesting time, folks!

Actually, I think the news reporter was simply on the phone with someone who kept stating the name “Charles Green” and the journo concluded he was talking to a third party, failing to realize CG’s love of speaking of himself in the third person.
==============================================================================
😆

Note, also, second ‘ FOLLOWING’ and not falling 😀 in this quote.

A spokesman for Mr Green said: “Charles Green pleads guilty to the following crimes – saving the club from Craig Whyte and now trying to prevent it from following into the hands of men who haven’t invested a penny.

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Paulmac2Posted on11:36 am - Aug 9, 2013


havesomefaithinmagic says:

August 9, 2013 at 11:22 am
Has anybody ever heard of a Board meeting being required to sack a consultant?

Its a bit fishy.
………………………………………….

A BIT fishy?….standing in the centre of a sewage farm at the height of a heat wave doesn’t even come close to describing how bad this whole charade smells

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ecobhoyPosted on11:44 am - Aug 9, 2013


Returning to the Copland Road piece it states: ‘Stockbridge though soon began to evade questions and was unable to provide an answer on the composition of our £10 million in the bank in terms of season-ticket income and IPO cash. We were told that “It goes into the same pot of money. We can’t distinguish between the two.”

Assuming that £1.5 million of the £10 million is a loan from SportsDirect – which means that Rangers is no longer a debt-free club IMO – that leaves £8.5 million. I assume if the ST money has been paid over in full to Rangers prior to all the instalments being paid then as well as the VAT to be paid there will be a percentage to the ticket agents for providing a mini Ticketus.

All in all I wonder if Rangers in reality have £6 million in the bank as I reckon SportsDirect wouldn’t have paid over the £1.5 million draw-down in one lump sum unless it was to refurb Edmiston House.

I think things are in a much worse state financially than I had previously thought as up until now I was fairly sure they could reach Jan/Fen next year – now I just can’t see it. They desperately need a cash injection pdq as cost-cutting no matter how deep just ain’t going to save Rangers in the short term.

I now assume that McColl’s move and Walter’s exit is down to their knowledge of how desperate things are at Ibrox financially and they know they can play hard ball with Green as time is running out fast for him. The SMSM will be selectively briefed on the behind the scenes financial meltdown to get them on board to pressure Green out.

The supporters will all come together and stop ripping themselves apart in public – well maybe not but a truce will be agreed in face of defeating the bigger enemy. Green I think is in for a bit of a wake-up call when he realises that he doesn’t actually understand Scots in general and the Rangers support in particular.

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AllyJamboPosted on11:47 am - Aug 9, 2013


ecobhoy says:

August 9, 2013 at 10:03 am

Words no PR man should ever use with regard to himself or the business he’s involved with: ‘crisis PR’. Especially at a meeting called to ‘reassure’ everyone that all is well. In truth, if he was in anyway suited to his job (whether he considers himself PR or not) he would have been there, bold as brass, saying ‘crisis, what crisis?’ I realise that what Traynor :slamb: was referring to was the on going war of words, but that was brought about by the uncertain (at best) financial situation and poor onfield performances, so it’s not unreasonable to expect supporters, and shareholders, to take it as a reference to the financial situation, especially after hearing the more than disappointing figures quoted.

Mind you, maybe ‘crisis PR’ is his way of making things sound better than they actually are.

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Banners to the BreezePosted on11:49 am - Aug 9, 2013


I see some of the Ibrox shameless allowed themselves to be debriefed at a fans Q &A last night. ( I wonder how many operatives JT had in place, to invigorate his crisis PR strategy)
The bonus structure that was explained, should by itself, be enough to enlighten every TRFC fan on just why their club/company remains so irresistible to a certain breed of businessman, player, ex- player and media type – It’s just not in a greedy piggy’s DNA to ignore huge (financial) teats hung before them!

(apologies for any suckling imagery that might be induced)

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jimlarkinPosted on11:53 am - Aug 9, 2013


The Rangers (formerly Sevco 5088 then Scotland) board are to hold an emergency board meeting to vote on whether Charles Green should remain in his role as a consultant with the club.

Board members held a question and answer session with 200 supporters last night where current chief executive Craig Mather described Green’s behaviour since returning to the club as “immoral and unethical”.

It also emerged that the club, which has limited borrowing options, has only £10m left in the bank. Rangers raised £22m from an IPO share flotation last season alongside taking in £8m in season ticket sales.

The Yorkshireman has been involved in a public spat with Rangers manager Ally McCoist following comments that it was necessary for the club to land one of Scotland’s domestic cups this season.

Green also issued an ultimatum to businessman Jim McColl to either buy his consortium’s stake for £14m by today or walk away from the club’s affairs.

Green is reported to be on a retainer of £1,000 for consultancy services after receiving an undisclosed payment when he left Ibrox last season.

He was embroiled in a racism row during his previous spell and was also accused of having close links with former owner Craig Whyte. An external inquiry however found that Whyte was not involved in Green’s takeover.

Craig Mather was joined by fellow directors Brian Stockbridge and Ian Hart alongside manager Ally McCoist at last night’s meeting at Ibrox.

…..
Is chuckles still on the board of TRFC ltd as opposed to RIFC plc.

Also, last season, they raised
22m iPo
8m SB. Also
8m SB this term

With 10m left ‘in the bank’

Is that not 28m spent in 1year?
Not to mention the puma and mangers money…

View Comment

auchinstarryPosted on11:57 am - Aug 9, 2013


John Clarke @ 11.27am

Old saying John……

Fool me once , shame on you…….

Fool me twice, Shame on Me……….

View Comment

Hartsons CombPosted on12:14 pm - Aug 9, 2013


auchinstarry says:
August 9, 2013 at 11:57 am

John Clarke @ 11.27am

Old saying John……

Fool me once , shame on you…….

Fool me twice, Shame on Me………
.
###########################

Fool me three times, Scotland’s Shame!

View Comment

timtimPosted on12:17 pm - Aug 9, 2013


I see Celtic have been drawn against Shakter Karagandy of Kazhakstan
good luck to them but what a farce that a nation like Kazakhstan is included in “Europe”
Karagandy is further east than Jodphur in India ,further east than Afghanistan .
2nd leg at home which is a bonus

View Comment

jockybhoyPosted on12:21 pm - Aug 9, 2013


auchinstarry I think you got that worng, wasn’t it:
“There’s an old saying in Tennessee — I know it’s in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can’t get fooled again.”

😆 😆 😆

View Comment

timtimPosted on12:29 pm - Aug 9, 2013


ecobhoy says:
there will be a percentage to the ticket agents for providing a mini Ticketus.
——-
I believe the extra %age is paid by the fans direct to Zebra if they choose a payment plan
eg:£200 SB costs £230 over x months
Rfc* may even get a small commision from Zebra for sending them the gullible.
Its a bit like using HP to buy a car ,of course if the car crashes and you aint insured
then you are still liable for the outstanding payments
Kerching -everybody wins again ,except the gullible

View Comment

Not The Huddle MalcontentPosted on12:40 pm - Aug 9, 2013


“The BBC are banned. They are supposed to be here on Saturday. They have paid to be here but they won’t be getting in. They can complain to the SPFL and it’ll be up to them if they want to sanction the club but hopefully it won’t come to that.”

============================================

I guess we’ll have to wait and see what happens tomorrow – will they be barred

I know they “threw out” BBC reporters last season – nothing appears to have been said or done by the SFL/SFA or Beeb then

Surely they can’t be allowed to do this without censure? We don’t get much money in the Scottish game and to treat anyone in this way – denying them contractual rights – is outrageous.

of course, they won’t be punished, won’t be mentioned in the press and everyone hopes the fans won’t make a fuss.

Outrageous. Scottish football needs Sevco dead and gone and the SFA/SPFL gutted and replaced with a new, unconflicted leadership.

View Comment

gredPosted on12:43 pm - Aug 9, 2013


timtim says:
August 9, 2013 at 12:17 pm
6 0 Rate This

I see Celtic have been drawn against Shakter Karagandy of Kazhakstan
good luck to them but what a farce that a nation like Kazakhstan is included in “Europe”
Karagandy is further east than Jodphur in India ,further east than Afghanistan .
2nd leg at home which is a bonus

TimTim,

Technically Kazakhstan (or part of it anyway) is in Europe. In Atyrau there is a bridge where one side is Europe the other is Asia (bit like istanbul bridge except less scenic and more polluted). The country is absolutely massive it will take absolutely ages to travel to Karagandy, I reckon it would take over 10 hours to fly there direct but with stops its a whole day travelling. Also the internal flights can be dodgy. Indeed Western Oil operators say that their people aren’t allowed to travel on some of their carriers eg the wonderfully named SCAT airways. Good luck to any Celtic fans going out there, itll be an experience, especially if you are a single guy, Western guys are very popular there!

View Comment

Carl31Posted on12:46 pm - Aug 9, 2013


With costs in the region of £25-30m a season, and £10m in the bank, did anyone ask Mr Stockbridge how they plan to get through this coming season?

Where do they expect to find the c. £15m from to barely wash their face?

Is it not now the case that the SFA simply must act, given that the Rangers Financial director has indicated that they dont have enough to get halfway through a season? Indications are that this £10m will not even cover their non-playing costs. Even if the full squad played for nothing …

View Comment

ShooperbPosted on12:59 pm - Aug 9, 2013


One of the saddest aspects of last night is the joint statement released by the supporters associations:

“We are extremely concerned to learn that there is only £10m left in club funds after the IPO and season-ticket monies have gone into the club”

I think what was missing was a bit in brackets, which I’ve now fixed:

“We are extremely concerned to learn( from someone who isn’t Timmy) that there is only £10m left in club funds after the IPO and season-ticket monies have gone into the club”

They’ve been warned and warned and warned until they were ….er… blue in the face that this was coming, but it was just bitter Timmy ( i.e. anyone who isn’t a Rangers fan, and indeed, some who are but don’t tow the party line. The definition seems to have expanded beyond merely Celtic fans…) being jealous as usual.

The best bit is that it’s not as if Timmy has been given access to some Deep Throat style expose – merely looking at the admitted million and half loss per month should have been enough to set alarm bells ringing. I’m sort of reminded of the episode of the Simpsons, with Homer going ‘IT’S STILL GOOD, IT’S STILL GOOD’ as his hog roast sails through the air, having been subjected to all sorts of unappetising adventures. Blind optimism, based on ‘they have to’, won’t make things turn out ok.

BTW, whoever mentioned Cumbernauld as a possible alternative to Ibrox in the short term. It’s already enough that Clyde are leaving, without having to inflict that lot on the town.

View Comment

davythelotionPosted on1:00 pm - Aug 9, 2013


Assuming for a moment that the meeting between the supporters groups and the hole in the wall gang was reported accurately, why was JT directing the board and which acc is the ST money in???

View Comment

ChristyboyPosted on1:04 pm - Aug 9, 2013


Look , we know P Murray and the rest never put any money in, but if he/they did, the club would/might have been buried by now, the grieving would have commenced and maybe, just maybe, there might have been a different outcome to what were seeing now – fighting over the will so to speak, where loads of people aint going to see a penny. What is really happening here is corporate necrophilia, basically shagging the dead company for all its worth, with no feelings at all for the relatives, whilst in full view of the public. Yeah, them guys that never put there money in, they’re terrible, don’t trust them, TRUST MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!

View Comment

SamPosted on1:10 pm - Aug 9, 2013


🙄 :mrgreen:

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/rangers-deny-20m-drive-is-bid-to-keep-club-afloat.19124987

View Comment

rantinrobinPosted on1:15 pm - Aug 9, 2013


Christyboy thanks for the contribution,corporate necrophilia ,very good. Interesting times,and it was not so very long ago that considerations were given to the impact of BDO, The Police Enquiry,LNS,FTT etc.The irony being of course that all implosion at TRFC is happening from within,no external forces required. If we were to continue the medical analogy,I would go for Necrotizing fasciitis- a bacteria rampant,inward flesh eating disease of the body.

Sorry if you are about to have your lunch.

View Comment

redetinPosted on1:16 pm - Aug 9, 2013


timtim says:
August 9, 2013 at 12:17 pm
6 0 Rate This

I see Celtic have been drawn against Shakter Karagandy of Kazhakstan

========================================================

I’ve flown into both Almaty and Astana, the latter now a very modern city. I had trouble leaving to Amsterdam via Moscow, as I didn’t have a Russian visa. However, I eventually got out and spent a couple of hours in Moscow’s Sheremetyevo transit lounge en route to Amsterdam.

There is a con trick in play that people need to be aware of. A friend got caught by it in Astana. Just google the “Dropped Wallet Scam”, it takes various forms but NEVER, pick up a wallet that someone appears to have dropped in the street. You’ll find yourself in trouble.

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Matty RothPosted on1:18 pm - Aug 9, 2013


So let me get this right:

– TRFC are now slowly being recognised by their own fans as in serious financial trouble
– Green is recognised as hard nosed enough to cut heads, sell players and generally do some dirty, unpleasant work
– Mather is the CEO who approved bringing in all the new players greatly increasing costs
– The fans want Green out of the club immediately

So with Mather back in full control and no one to do the dirty work how the hell are they going to save the club by cutting costs urgently?

Or is this Green’s plan?
ie:
He returns and there are rumours of cash shortages and hut swinging cuts
Fans demand he is removed
He goes
The club carry on as before until cash runs out
Admin again and Green can blame the fans?

View Comment

SteerpikePosted on1:37 pm - Aug 9, 2013


The following statements made last night simply confirm my guesses:

” They [our new signings] will improve our football but also improve our balance sheet. Wages, agents’ fees and contracts are far superior to last year.” ——————–

Wages were 7 million and this has been annualized down to 5 million, a saving of 2 million.

” The club is not loss-making on a month-by-month basis, but there are some months when we lose money. We wanted to maintain the infrastructure and not have to pay to build it up again when Ally gets us back to the top.” ————————

As I stated, short term losses have been accepted for long term reasons, and I doubt the months Rangers do lose money will be as much as £1 million pounds, maintaining ticket prices made both political and financial sense in these circumstances.

” Audited accounts will be out in mid-September and they will show that we have £10 million in the account. The Club is not in financial distress.” ——————–

Assuming the 10 million consists of this years SB sales, an advance from Sports Direct and all the 20 million has been used up, it is likely Rangers will need some cash injection prior to next season, my guess is 5 million.

” Stockbridge attempted to allay fears again by confirming that we still have to receive royalties from our agreement with Puma and that our retail performance should be much better than last season. He also promised a “dramatic improvement” in 2013/14. “—————————-

The original projections made by CG seriously underestimated both the difficulties in downsizing and the loss of commercial revenue in the first year, and as I guessed the improvement in commercial revenue this year will be ” dramatic “.

Is everything rosy ? Nope, but it is not financial meltdown as predicted by various sources, it was never going to be easy to streamline Rangers, keep fans motivated and maintain infrastructure for the future, and I believe Bill Miller’s estimate of 30 million will not be that far off.

The trading position of Rangers last year may be 10 million losses, this year will be ” some months ” losses( I guess 3 million worst scenario), and next year they will break even with additional income from SBs etc etc. on a 25 million turnover.

To those who believe Celtic are immune from the same market forces as Rangers, take a look at the last two years audited accounts, without Europe they break even or lose money. One should not make the same mistake as Rangers fans and assume one swallow makes a summer, as I stated neither Rangers nor Celtic are worth 30 million regardless of the profit Celtic make in this one halcyon year. If they do not progress in Europe they will lose money on trading in a market shrinking with domestic apathy, the price one must pay for a one horse race.

Why people invest in Scottish football to make money is a complete mystery to me, and to all those who think Rangers were sold cheap, you are wrong, they were worth a £1, £5.5 million was way over the top for a financial basket case.

View Comment

andyPosted on1:40 pm - Aug 9, 2013


ecobhoy says:
August 9, 2013 at 11:20 am
18 0 Rate This

Just had a look at the Copland Road link and I wonder if what I’m reading means what is says.

In their report of last nights Ibrox meeting it states that Stockbridge stated of the £10 million in the bank £1.5 million has come as income from SportsDirect.

Some may remember the recent piece I did on the Rangers Retail Ltd joint venture between SportsDirect and Rangers. Surprise surprise Rangers can draw-down £1.5 million from SportsDirect under the agreement with the interest payable capitalised. So is the £1.5 million actually ‘income’ or is it the agreed draw-down?

The draw-down is guaranteed by a charge on TRFCL property and the way the Rangers Retail Ltd shareholding is structured SportsDirect can outvote Rangers on any financial matters and there is an escape clause where if any breakdown can’t be resolved then SportsDirect can buy-out Rangers,
__________________
someone on FF last night said the same thing as you, and he thought it was a loan and that the actual cash was 8.5m

they were also saying that rangers themselves managed the 4 month installments of season tickets but zebra done the 10 month ones

View Poll Results: How Did You Pay For Your Season Ticket?
Up front payment to the Club (cash, debit, credit card etc.) 191 62.83%
4 Month Plan 91 29.93%
10 Month Plan 22 7.24%
Voters: 304.

View Comment

Celtic ParanoiaPosted on1:45 pm - Aug 9, 2013


blu says:
August 8, 2013 at 4:10 pm
13 7 i
Rate This

Celtic Paranoia says:
August 8, 2013 at 3:46 pm

TSFM
================
Re. Celtic FC investors/shareholders return on investment. This is an observation rather than criticism CP but I think that you (just like me and 99.99% of fans of all clubs) don’t know the ins and outs of our club’s ownership and payments to senior management and directors. The focus here has mostly been on Rangers of course, and the position is generally clearer for those clubs that have either gone into administration or liquidation because there has been greater scrutiny and more accounts information has been made public. TSFM’s comment on the dividend due (at some time) to Dermot Desmond is helpful – we shouldn’t assume that all is well at clubs other than Rangers because they are stable at the moment, supported by nice charitable people who are billionaires/millionaires/got a few bob.

————————————————————————————-

I may be showing my own niavete but Celtic, as with other clubs with one notable exception, publish annual audited accounts as and when due do they not? I’m not saying this is the utopia of transparency but I expect it would be difficult to hide dire financial difficulties with annual audited accounts in the public domain. For years prior to the demise of Rangers, Celtic fans regularly commented on gaping holes in accounts and fantasy valuations of assets, selling off of assets and other such shenanigans but were dismissed as timmy fantasists and the consumers of succulent lamb weren’t interested in asking questions. The information was in the public domain for the best part of a decade for anyone with an interest but the Rangers fans did not want to know and chose to remain deluded in fantasies of hovering stadiums, casinos and having Man City as a feeder club .

I somehow doubt that the lamb consumers prompted by Jack “Let’s plant negative stories about our rivals” Irvine would let such indicators go without comment in the media if Celtic were on the same slippery slope. That is not to say that Celtic are rolling in money and looking to sign star players from under the noses of EPL clubs but I am satisfied that there is no impending crisis.

I am also confident that if such a financial crisis WAS looming, the Celtic board would take the harsh decisions necessary and corrective action to match income with expenditure. In fact this was already done in 2004 and has been debated extensively in the proceeding years among Celtic fans.

In contrast to Rangers, there is no hubris or sense of entitlement among boardroom or support that gets in the way of cutting cloth appropriately. That is not to say there are not many Celtic fans with unrealistic expectations but it’s not an ingrained mentality among the support keeping the club mired in a self destructive cycle of willy waving WATP one upmanship (witness all sorts of emasculated tosh about word record attendances, 500 million fans, the best team bus in the world etc etc etc)

View Comment

johnnymancPosted on1:50 pm - Aug 9, 2013


Anyone care to speculate on what the MBB is up to right now? Will he be getting jittery at the thought of Insolvency Event Mk II as whilst it may be TRFC (Sevco Scotland) which suffers it, it will probably be accompanied by some jiggery pokery (technical term) regarding RIFC’s ownership of the properties. How likely is he to follow through with his court battle?

View Comment

Tif FinnPosted on1:55 pm - Aug 9, 2013


Steerpike says:
August 9, 2013 at 1:37 pm

Rangers were sold for £1, it was when David Murray sold his shares to Craig Whyte, for that amount.

Craig Whyte did not then sell Rangers, they were placed into administrqation and then liquidation. Rangers still exists and may do for some time, it could be years.

The administrator sold their assets to Sevco (5088 or Scotland depending on who you believe).

View Comment

Celtic ParanoiaPosted on1:55 pm - Aug 9, 2013


blu says:
August 8, 2013 at 4:10 pm
13 7 i
Rate This
we shouldn’t assume that all is well at clubs other than Rangers because they are stable at the moment, supported by nice charitable people who are billionaires/millionaires/got a few bob.

———————————-
Sorry meant to also say – the whole point is that Celtic are not supported by a multi millionaire, they are RUN BY a multi millionaire owner but are self sufficient in terms of generating income and servicing borrowing. As Auldhied said there is perhaps some degree of benevolence in that Dermot Desmond’s time may be more profitably spent on other enterprises in terms of finance but that is not the same as saying he financially supports the club from his own pockets, which appears to be the only model that Rangers fans and many commentators in the media (spot the difference?) seem capable of conceiving, which is highly ironic given that the model never actually existed in the first place

View Comment

smartie1947Posted on1:58 pm - Aug 9, 2013


Why are all threads on RM today locked?
Can it be that like the BBC, no admittance means less hassle?
Must phone up CO and borrow his password – that should work.

View Comment

andyPosted on2:04 pm - Aug 9, 2013


Steerpike says:
August 9, 2013 at 1:37 pm

how much will it cost rangers to run between now and june 30 ?

View Comment

campsiejoePosted on2:07 pm - Aug 9, 2013


If there is an insolvency event, you can bet your bottom dollar it won’t be RIFC that goes under, it will be TRFC
RIFC effectively bankrolls them, so money given to TRFC is effectively a debt to RIFC
If admin does strike, Green & Co will strip TRFC bare, and throw the bones to the Real Rangers Men

If TRFC do go into admin, SFA/SPFL have a real problem
Acknowledge they are a new club = 15 point deduction, or they are the same club which would mean 25+ deduction which could kill promotion hopes
Add to this, that any admin would probably be carried out properly leading to redundancies
Watch this space

View Comment

ecobhoyPosted on2:16 pm - Aug 9, 2013


andy says:
August 9, 2013 at 1:40 pm
—————————————————————————————

I would be amazed if the £1.5 million isn’t a loan and if I was a Rangers supporter and was told it was income by the FD then he would be toast no matter what else happened. And for an FD to say that he doesn’t know how much of a £10 million kitty comes from the IPO and how much from STs means IMO he either thinks the fans are stupid or he is. He should, and actually will know, to £1 what the constituents sums are in the kitty.

The fact that he suddenly has had a memory loss on the issue coupled with the fact that £1.5 million of the £10 million isn’t possibly ‘income’ but a loan explains IMO why he didn’t want to get into to much detail about the £1.5 million as that might have caused a bit of a stooshie.

The poll figures are interesting but have to be taken with a big pinch of salt because on any forums – especially football – 99% is an uber supporter who either pays in one amount up front or at worst pays the four instalments to retain street cred.

I reckon the only ones that told the truth was the 10 month plan punters who admitted that like most people just now money is tight. In reality I think the 10 month figure will be a lot higher than the poll would suggest 🙄

View Comment

Carl31Posted on2:18 pm - Aug 9, 2013


Anyone who has the general view that the current Rangers will be OK in the long term is living on cloud cuckoo land.

The SFA need to act immediately before the new season begins. This Rangers are highly unlikely to see it through.

View Comment

redlichtiePosted on2:18 pm - Aug 9, 2013


Steerpike, thanks for your contributions. Always interesting.

Could you help us all out with something that has puzzled me and I suspect a few others….

To paraphrase Liverpool owner John W Henry “What are you smoking over there…..?”

Scottish football needs a strong Arbroath.

View Comment

SunincapricornPosted on2:20 pm - Aug 9, 2013


Smartie19947 @ 1:58pm
To “Squirrel” out “Trolls”…perhaps? 😀

View Comment

SamPosted on2:22 pm - Aug 9, 2013


campsiejoe says:
August 9, 2013 at 2:07 pm
————————————————–
“We know that the bank had a floating charge. We know that floating charge has been assigned to Whyte (one of Whyte’s companies). We are assured (by commentators and the administrators) that Whyte has extended no finance to Rangers. However, if no finance has been extended by Whyte to Rangers that does not mean his floating charge is worthless. We don’t know if the right to payment of the debt owed to the bank was assigned to Whyte. If it was, then Whyte will be owed the money from Rangers (unless he has waived the debt) – and has a floating charge to back it up.

That will be the case whether Whyte extended any money to Rangers or not. That will be the case whether the bank got a payment from Whyte that matched the total sum owed to it by Rangers or not.

Assume the bank was owed £20 million by Rangers – if Whyte paid the bank £10 million (wherever the money came from) the bank might have agreed to assign the right to payment to Whyte. Rangers still owe £20 million, Whyte is owed the £20 million, the bank has cut its losses.

Of course if the bank was paid the full sum owed to it by Whyte the one thing that does not do is discharge Rangers’ debt. The transaction between Whyte and the bank was a sale and purchase of a right to payment. Only Rangers could pay off the debt (unless Whyte volunteered to make a third party payment on Rangers behalf – which is competent in Scotland).

Those analysing the floating charge therefore need to keep the debt owed by Rangers to the bank; and the transfer of the floating charge (and potential transfer of the debt) clear and distinct in their minds. Without more information it is not possible to say that Whyte’s floating charge is worth nothing (and that is before considering any right of relief Whyte may benefit from in relation to the cautionary obligations (guarantees) owed to Ticketus in relation to Rangers debt to Ticketus).”

View Comment

Tif FinnPosted on2:34 pm - Aug 9, 2013


27. ecobhoy says:
August 9, 2013 at 2:16 pm

He was a Senior Manager at Grant Thornton for 9 years, as you say it is difficult to believe that he does not have such basic information to hand.

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jimlarkinPosted on2:35 pm - Aug 9, 2013


Tif Finn says:
August 9, 2013 at 1:55 pm
6 0 Rate This

Steerpike says:
August 9, 2013 at 1:37 pm

Rangers were sold for £1, it was when David Murray sold his shares to Craig Whyte, for that amount.

Craig Whyte did not then sell Rangers, they were placed into administrqation and then liquidation. Rangers still exists and may do for some time, it could be years.

The administrator sold their assets to Sevco (5088 or Scotland depending on who you believe).

….

Well said that man.

This should be the last post every night on TSFM and the 1st post every morning

…lest we forget.!!!!!!!!!!!!

View Comment

bluPosted on2:40 pm - Aug 9, 2013


23. Celtic Paranoia says:
August 9, 2013 at 1:55 pm
=========================================
CP – I’m aware that you and others make a point of being well-informed on football finances but I categorically said that my post wasn’t directed at you and your club.

My observation remains that 99.99% of football fans just want to go along and support (and pay for) their teams and to leave someone else to worry about the financing of the whole thing. And that lack of interest/awareness isn’t the ideal way for Scottish football to prosper.

View Comment

McCaig`s TowerPosted on2:40 pm - Aug 9, 2013


Paulmac2 says:

August 9, 2013 at 7:57 am
——————————————–
On the assumption that the SPFL rules have been adopted I believe section E is relevant. Essentially this is a 15 point penalty for a first offence and 25 points for a second offence within 5 years.

The SPL and the SFL had different rules.

The SPL used to have a fixed 10 point penalty, which took no account of the scale of the offence, or the advantage gained. Thus the net effect of the punishment on Rangers was that they finished 2nd, as opposed to 2nd. The rules were changed so that the penalty would be based on the number of points the club had won the previous season, assuming that they were a member of the SPL. This would be appear to be a broad-brush attempt to match the scale of the penalty to the scale of the advantage previously gained, and hence to the scale of the crime. A promoted team would be penalised the minimum of 10 points, as clearly it would be futile to compare points gained in Division 1 with points gained in the SPL and otherwise a promoted team would be penalised up to 30 points, which would make relegation an inevitability.

On the other hand, the SFL considered each individual case on its merits. Thus it could take into account the timing of the insolvency event, whether or not it was a first offence, and, conceivably, although I don’t think it ever did, the scale of the offence. This allowed it to deal with the potential moral hazard of a club triggering insolvency once relegation had been avoided. Penalties imposed seem to be set to give an approximately 50-50 chance of the miscreant finishing in the relegation places. Larger deductions were made for second offences.

Of course, rather than be a panacea, an initial insolvency often makes a second more likely. A club becomes a bad risk, credit is hard to obtain, local businesses are reluctant to engage in trade, and the limited pool of rich fans has already been tapped. (As an aside, the analogy of administration being like intensive care continues to hold good, as survivors are often more vulnerable to infection and other illness). Such a club thus becomes prey to crooks and fantasists.

The SPFL has reverted to the one size fits all approach, but with explicit harsher penalties for further offences. I note rule E5 refers to a club “whether owned and operated by the same or a different member”. This would appear to give the authorities room to conclude that Rangers, for example, were the same club, and thus award a 25 point penalty for any insolvency event. However, as the first offence took place under a previous set of rules, it could equally well be argued that this was a first offence under the new rules and hence a 10 point penalty would be appropriate. Thus, I don’t think we would necessarily infer anything about the “same club” debate in the hypothetical event of a Rangers administration.

View Comment

SpivcoPosted on2:42 pm - Aug 9, 2013


Steerpike at 1.47: The trading position of Rangers last year may be 10 million losses, this year will be ” some months ” losses( I guess 3 million worst scenario), and next year they will break even with additional income from SBs etc etc. on a 25 million turnover.
___________________________________________________________________________________

How you gonna get to ‘next year’ though? How will Sevco continue to function at a loss until next year and then see an entire year out until they-cough-break even without credit facilities? Chas & Co are there to syphon money off, not put it in. Who is gonna bridge the gap to pay salaries, utilities, etc?

View Comment

ecobhoyPosted on2:43 pm - Aug 9, 2013


Sam says:
August 9, 2013 at 1:10 pm

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/rangers-deny-20m-drive-is-bid-to-keep-club-afloat.19124987
================================================================

I was interested in the comment from the article: ‘The minimum investment is likely to be £500, although Mr Green said fans who wanted to spend less could buy shares via stockbrokers and accountants after they list on the stock exchange.’

The reason it caught my eye was because I could never ever understand why so many Institutional Investors bought £17 million of shares. And now I wonder did they think that there was going to be a lot of business generated from the 500 million galactic fanbase who couldn’t afford to spend the minimum £500.

There are lots of the usual hilarious Greenisms in the article well-worth another read but another quote that caught me eye was: ‘Meanwhile, Rangers’ wage bill will be capped at around 30% of revenues. Mr Stockbridge said this is half the level of Celtic’s.’

I would have thought that given they were in SFL3 that 10% of the Celtic level might have been more appropriate for the division.

In any case, when are the SFA going to provide the financial figures to see what’s what with the wage bill? I’m not sure I would be able to work it out from any audited accounts if they are ever produced in view of the accoun ting sleight of hand which may be treating a loan as income. Still that’s accounting for you 🙄

View Comment

SamPosted on2:46 pm - Aug 9, 2013


Tif Finn says:
August 9, 2013 at 2:34 pm
—————————————————–
Enquiries:
Worthington Nicholls 0870 609 1829
Mark Worthington, Chief Executive
David Levis, Corporate Director

Gresham PR Ltd 020 7404 9000
Neil Boom / Tanya Feness

Corporate Synergy 020 7448 4400
Brian Stockbridge / Romil Patel

——————————————————
http://whl.financialexpress.net/investegate/articlePrint.aspx?id=200607241226156245G

View Comment

jockybhoyPosted on2:53 pm - Aug 9, 2013


redlichtie says: August 9, 2013 at 2:18 pm
“What are you smoking over there…..?” Haddock?

Scottish football needs a strong Arbroath.

View Comment

BrendaPosted on2:57 pm - Aug 9, 2013


143hrs mr lunny 😕 “is there anybody there??” 🙂 my clock’s running out of power maybe I should just give up 🙁

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ecobhoyPosted on3:18 pm - Aug 9, 2013


I had a look at Leggoland today and see that it appears not to be in the ‘normal’ Leggo tone.

However the writer claims that Green’s return has been accompanied by the use of Media House – now whether that is true or false I know not but I wonder if it is correct whether we might currently be getting treated to some of those negative stories about Celtic and other clubs and some Rangers ones with a slight rosy-tinge that things will all come good in the Big Hoose and aren’t nearly as bad as what is being rumoured.

It’s a bit like the strange position of Mr Hart that life-long Rangers fan and former Blue Knight who seems to have told fans last night that all was well with the world and the Rangers Board – tell that one to Walter 😆

Mr Hart has always been a bit of a conundrum to me and others. He was the guy that Green said was a member of the original consortium last year and Hart promptly denied it. Then it was revealed that Hart actually was an investor and it would appear that his shares were bought from money lying about in the youth section of the club or some such explanation given to a meeting of Rangers fans. I have never fully understood whether Hart actually knew shares had been bought in his name or not as he certainly seemed very confused on the issue.

What surprised me then and still does is how Craig Whyte and D&P didn’t find this money and if they did why Wee Craigie didn’t snaffle it and why D&P didn’t claim it as part of the administration.

Another mystery and it may well be that BDO might ask the necessary question and of course all might well be in order. But I am left puzzled that two life-long Rangers supporters who must know each other well have reached such diametrically opposed viewpoints on the functionality of the Rangers Board.

It may well be that Walter is privy to much more financial information than Mr Hart who – reading between the lines – voted for Green to come back and didn’t back Walter. However as one of Green’s original investors I suppose he must have some affection for Big Hands :mrgreen:

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andyPosted on3:28 pm - Aug 9, 2013


ecobhoy says:
August 9, 2013 at 3:18 pm

It may well be that Walter is privy to much more financial information than Mr Hart
____________________
IH – Always questioned BS on finances. Happy with answers and that he’s not dishonest. No disharmony on board. :mrgreen:

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hayzaboyPosted on3:30 pm - Aug 9, 2013


The contents of my coffee cup have just been cleaned from my screen,that Steerpike chappie (hiya jack hiya pal) is one strange dude but we are a broad church(atheists and agnostics welcome) and I must thank him for his thoughts and words but as Jangles would say his BS is ……. off the radar.

Keep up the good work Jack…………..sorry Steerpike 😛

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ecobhoyPosted on3:46 pm - Aug 9, 2013


blu says:
August 9, 2013 at 2:40 pm
23. Celtic Paranoia says:
August 9, 2013 at 1:55 pm
=========================================
My observation remains that 99.99% of football fans just want to go along and support (and pay for) their teams and to leave someone else to worry about the financing of the whole thing. And that lack of interest/awareness isn’t the ideal way for Scottish football to prosper.
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I agree that the vast majority of football supporters, especially of bigger clubs, have no or very little interest in the financial side except when a club cuts back on buying better players especially if results suffer.

I think a lot of smaller club supporters do have more of an awareness because money is usually a continual problem for the clubs year on year.

I also think that Rangers fans have been fed a crock of sh*t by various owners and the SMSM so that they have tended to sit back and believe all the propaganda that things are fine with unlimited cash available. There have been small sections of the Rangers support and individuals who have campaigned for a long time about the Ibrox financial model being flawed but they have always been drowned-out by the PR campaign.

I’m not saying that Celtic fans are cleverer but I believe they are more clued-in to financial health issues and consequences therefrom because of our own brush with oblivion. But even so many still don’t want to accept the fiscal probity required especially in Scottish Football which has been a declining market in recent years.

The odd individual blames the loss of Rangers to the top flight as a factor depressing the economics of the Scottish game last season but I actually think it has opened the league up quite a bit and there is the bonus of the Blue Pound being spent in the lower leagues and I’m sure the additional revenue will be put to good use by the clubs involved.

Obviously I hope the restructure will also improve things so perhaps the game might make a come-back but we still need at a minimum the SFA to grow a pair and to hear CO say that basically the rules and regs are just guidelines is ludicrous and not acceptable IMO. However I stray somewhat 😐

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SteerpikePosted on3:52 pm - Aug 9, 2013


I stated Rangers was not worth 5.5 million but one pound, I cannot be any clearer, the costs of bankrolling the company until it returns to the top tier demonstrate my point. For information purposes CW did not pay £1, he paid the bank overdraft plus one pound.

If Rangers run into cash flow problems in the last quarter then having no credit facilities is irrelevant, CG has returned to drum up more investment, and no investor is going to let the ship sink so close to harbour for a few million, it is basic common sense. As long as the trading position is stable then raising more funds will not be difficult, these kind of things are fairly common in any company reconstruction.

Slowly but surely all the conspiracy theories are crumbling and I predict there will be a lot of soothsayers with egg on their face in a years time.

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TartawulverPosted on3:53 pm - Aug 9, 2013


campsiejoe says:
August 9, 2013 at 2:07 pm
If TRFC do go into admin, SFA/SPFL have a real problem Acknowledge they are a new club = 15 point deduction, or they are the same club which would mean 25+ deduction which could kill promotion hopes
Add to this, that any admin would probably be carried out properly leading to redundancies
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Or even worse, ‘the club’ is somehow resurrected as The New Rangers FC , and we end up with the unholy trinity of
– RFC (have the history intact, available to absorb any fines as they have no money to pay them etc)
– TRFC (short term life to pass on the baton from old school Rangers to reborn new rangers)
– TNRFC (are allocated TRFC’s place in the league, but no points deduction as they ‘are the same club’)

If 2 in 1 can apparently bamboozle some of the people some of the time, why not 3 in 1, each capable of being identified separately, or lumped together, to maximise benefits and minimise penalties?

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ecobhoyPosted on4:01 pm - Aug 9, 2013


http://www.sportsdirectnews.com/sports-business/29791-rangers-news-missing-millions-at-ibrox.php
Rangers news: Missing millions at Ibrox

A meeting between Rangers fans’ chiefs and club chief executive Craig Mather and manager Ally McCoist has brought the revelation that the Ibrox bank account has already dwindled to £10 million.
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Another article from SportsDirect – Wonder what Ashlkey paid for his shares. Did he get them for 1p a time just to get him on-board so to speak.

Wonder if the writer knows that £1.5 million of that £10 million is an interest bearing loan guaranteed by TRFCL heritable property.

Still apparently Stockbridge and Hart believes things are just hunky-dory at Ibrox financially as does one of our new posters. I had to laugh reading the bit about Stockbridge explaining that the reason he videoed MM was after he had to help the chairman to his bed four times.

I’m sure that would have gone down a bomb with the Bears – I mean if you’re not legless after a night out on the lash then you most certainly are a man to be watched and the FD seems to have proved that with no explanation that I can see as to how the video got from him and ended up in the papers.

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