Much has been written on this blog, and previously on RangersTaxCase.com regarding the assets and liabilities of the former Rangers football club – however little has been done to look at the rest of the SPL and Scottish Football as a whole. Was it just Rangers making ridiculous ‘asset’ valuations or is there other clubs in real danger of following RFC to the grave?
Before we get started a quick explanation on the figures. They were all taken from the latest accounts as appearing on Duedil.com, so some are from 2010’s figures. I have also ‘tidied’ them up a little so that they are easily understandable, removing things such as minor stock holdings.
The big story in the Rangers case was how over valued their ‘assets’ were, and especially the freehold property. To remind you Rangers Balance sheet in 2010 was as below:
While on paper the net assets look very healthy, we all now know that the 130m of Fixed assets was in fact worth just 5.5m in the real world. If we change that 130m to the real life figure their balance sheet would have looked like this…
So, how do the rest of the SPL compare? This is a list of ‘fixed assets’ for each club as noted in their last accounts.
Predictably, Celtic lead the way, but a quick scout through the notes reveals the freehold properties are valued at 45m. Dundee prop up the table, but with no freehold properties to their name, this is not so surprising. One thing to note is the difference in value of the assets held by Aberdeen and Kilmarnock compared to clubs like Dundee Utd and St.Johnstone – this is important when we look at their balance sheets.
As you can see above, I have broken the balance sheet down into a few categories. We have the fixed assets we just discussed, followed by the cash in bank. Next is the debtors (money owed to the club within the next year) and then the creditors (money the club owes to others within the next year). A crude calculation gives us the Net Current assets or liabilities. A red number means that club owes more money in the next 12 months than they have in the bank, or are owed.
We then move on to long term creditors (money that is owed but not immediately – more than 1 year away) which will constitute loans from banks, or from shareholders. In the case of Hearts, who have the highest amount of long term debt in the SPL, 98% of this debt is owed to the parent company UAB, controlled by Romanov. This debt attracts a further 4.5% interest a year, while UAB also hold a floating charge over the clubs assets.
The final column gives us the Net assets or liabilities, taking into account the fixed assets of the company. As we saw earlier, Rangers had posted Net assets of 70m, only achieved by their ridiculous freehold property valuation. Are Hearts and Aberdeen doing the same? In the case of Hearts they include in their fixed assets 159,000 worth of ‘Memorabilia’… in addition to 15m of freehold property, while Aberdeen state in their accounts that the valuation of Pittodrie is a ‘rebuild’ value rather than a likely realistic sale price.
By declaring such high values on their balance sheets though, it produces a net asset figure, rather than a large liability that, in reality, is the case. Kilmarnock and Hibs to a lesser extent would also see their figures turn red with asset valuations downgraded.
What is heartening to see though, is two clubs with net current assets, in St.Johnstone and Motherwell. Saints were rescued from near bankruptcy in the 80’s by Geoff Brown and have lived within their means ever since. Motherwell likewise have been in financial trouble in recent times, but the club appears to have stabilized and is now living within their means on and off the park.
If another insolvency event hits an SPL club, the MSM will blame it on the demise of Rangers. What can be clearly seen here though is the damage was done years ago to clubs like Hearts, Dundee Utd and Aberdeen – it will be a battle to get back to the kind of financial position that clubs such as St.Johnstone currently enjoy. However, the message that Saints are currently sending out is that its possible to have a competitive team without breaking the bank, as long as others aren’t artificially inflating wage demands.
The accounts I used to get the above figures are downloadable here: I was unable to find for Inverness – if anyone can find please let me know and I can add them to the table. When time permits I will extend this to include SFL clubs as well.
Aberdeen | Celtic | Dundee Utd | Hearts | Hibs | Kilmarnock | Ross County | St.Mirren | St.Johnstone
Richard Wilson (@timomouse) says:
Friday, November 2, 2012 at 20:37
Thank you for taking my ‘complaint’ with the spirit in which it was intended. Personally, I am all for league reconstruction and would welcome a less convoluted league system, properly administered from the very top However I do have a major concern about any proposed reconstruction which is driven by the incompetent beaks at the SFA.
I am also a supporter of reconciliation. Unfortunately that only ever works when the antagonist is prepared to admit their guilt and able to face up to the impact of their wrongdoing.
One day, perhaps, but so far, I have seen little of that kind of reasoning and humility from either the management of fans of The Rangers.
smartbhoy says:
Friday, November 2, 2012 at 15:32
wjohnston1 says:
Friday, November 2, 2012 at 15:49
dedeideoprofundis says:
Friday, November 2, 2012 at 16:00
angus1983 says:
Friday, November 2, 2012 at 16:00
john clarke says:
Friday, November 2, 2012 at 16:24
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I think the good looking QC will have no worries, after all, she is on the Orange network.
Parson St. Bhoy at 21.03:
The Richard Hughes mentioned is Richard D Hughes, of California, a member of the board of the Mine Safety Institute of America.
I would seriously doubt that Oor Chuckie, the Yorkshire thicko, would qualify for membersjip of such an august, respectable and, above all, American body.
Google is not always a reliable research tool when dealing with names that are far from uncommon.
john clarke says:
Friday, November 2, 2012 at 21:25
Not to sound like a broken record John, but that is the challenge. The challenge in reconstructing Scottish football isn’t in reconstructing Scottish football, it’s in convincing everyone that it’s not about helping Rangers.
I’m a Celtic fan, as are a lot of people on here, and that whole blog is aimed at Celtic fans, who are most likely to be least convinced that it’s not just a plot to help out Rangers.
Reconstruction isn’t about expediting Rangers through the league, it’s about benefitting the league at large. Increasing league size in terms of teams per league will inevitably mean there a fewer divisions but also fewer divisions for Rangers to climb through. However the potential benefits are massive.
Without it, I think we can all predict that Rangers will get back to the SPL eventually, that Rangers’ away days will resemble birthday parties in Chechnya. So a balance must be struck between benefitting the league as a whole and also telling Rangers that they are very naughty boys but, if titles are stripped and they’re in Div 3 now, what more is there to be done?
Richard Wilson (@timomouse) says:
Friday, November 2, 2012 at 20:37
At the end of the day we either have a rule book for all or we don’t.
If we don’t fine but then the game is finished.
At every turn of this debacle the powers that be have bent over backwards to facilitate the return of a specific club because of either who they were or because of the amount of paying customers they have.
The rule book was abandoned.
Common sense was thrown out of the window.
Independent panels, that had only just been introduced, were intimidated and their decisions challenged in a court of law. Then when decisions were returned to them they were by-passed by the very authorities that had commissioned them in the first place.
Meanwhile the five way agreement, of which two parties were essentially the same club, was completed in utter secrecy that has never been made public.
At the end of the day, love them or loathe them, Rangers were a club with 140 years of history that was brought to its knees, and eventually destroyed, by a megalomaniac and a complete charlatan and both of these guys should be in the dock.
Ultimately, in an attempt to keep the oldco paying customers on board, the myth that they were the same club was allowed to be born and, more importantly, never challenged by anyone in authority because of either who they were or because of the amount of paying customers they have.
As I said at the start you either have a rule book or not.
Richard you are proposing to turn our entire structure upside down just so Rfc* can be back
in the top Div 1 year early . (apologies if I’ve misread that) .The 16 club regional league (North) would not have games against Rfc* so thats approx 8 present clubs who would miss out financially . I am not against league reconstruction ,but I am against doing it based on one clubs
desire to feast at the top table or there sense of entitlement to be there .
Highland league clubs like the Highland league -Junior clubs like the Junior set up
many of them have no desire to be a part of the Senior game and many of them attract attendances far bigger than many of their Senior counterparts
The best league we could have in Scotland imo would be one that incorporated the English border clubs such as Newcastle Sunderland Boro + Carlisle and I have floated that idea on forums often in the past . Nobody agreed with me either .
Would there be any desire for reconstruction if Rfc* were back in the SPL ?
Once and if they return then we should discuss it ,now is not the time, it will only lead to resentment from those who see it as favouritism -and who could blame them
John Clarke: Sadly, for now, we all need to be a bit careful because of who it is under the microscope. I posted an email I received from Show Racism The Red Card, just as I was about to press “post comment” I paused, took a moment to think and then deleted the authors name from the text. I simply didn’t want the poor lady being subjected to God knows what by the bonkers brigade.
johnboy5088 says:
Friday, November 2, 2012 at 21:31
“””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””
Kudos and good work agent 5088.
The intel was actually from agent @BigStuart1888. But as you say Google and the net are not always reliable. Especially when you can pay to have your history deleted, according to our MSM. But in what state would we be without it now? Possibly with a certain team cruising to another CL place due to ‘honest mistakes which even themselves out over the course of a season’ instead of being in liquidation.
timtim says:
Friday, November 2, 2012 at 21:49
It isn’t about entitlement of Rangers or anything like that. the league Rangers end up in is the one they deserve to be in due to their on field performances, no more, no less. The argument that it benefits Rangers is like arguing that reconstruction should be put off because East Stirling shouldn’t be in the SPL.
There was appetite for reconstruction pre-administration and Doncaster And Regan publicly researched it, deciding that there was no option that would get majority approval. however that approval was based on getting past the 11-1 voting veto, which is no longer an issue, hence why we can debate like this.
Publicly, as I’ve said, the debate is about overcoming arguments of favouritism. But I appear to be currently not capable of doing that myself…
tomtomaswell says:
Friday, November 2, 2012 at 21:25
Great post. Well said. Not many others hitting the nail on the head!!
I get where you are coming from Richard but its not the time
People want to see a just punishment handed out not just for retribution
but as a warning to others and to reinforce the rules
Why the rush now ? I can only see it doing more harm than good
and lets remember Rfc* want to be in Div3 and work their way back up
with honour (apparently) lets let them do just that
You talk about how much extra revenue would be generated with reconstruction
did you take into account how many fans would turn their backs on the game if
they perceived it was done to aid and abett a certain club ?
RFC have already been accommodated by SFA/SPL/SFL to an uncomfortable extent. If restructuring Scottish football is seen to be a favour to RFC then I fear that many fans will lose faith and be less inclined to support the game.
Ordinaryfan
“Sadly for now, we all need to be a bit careful…”
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No.
Lack of risk is a sure sign of mediocrity, I once heard.
Speak out, I say. The reason we are in this mess is because no one has.
justshatered says:
Friday, November 2, 2012 at 21:40
“As I said at the start you either have a rule book or not”
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Apparently, the rule book has been dispensed with, by the SFA, the SPL, the SFL and Sevco of course.
Meanwhile, the bulk of fans in Scotland support the rule book, as do UEFA & FIFA.
Add the Olympic movement and every other sports body on the planet.
All are agreed – the rule book is absolutely essential.
No rule book – no sport
No rule book – no society
No rule book – no Scotland
However, the Establishment in Scotland have made it clear – they will not play by the rules.
As for Sevco and RFC(IL) before them, with a political agenda, the rules of football were never going to figure in their plans. They have bigger fish to fry.
They are like shoplifters – while the rest of us pay at the till.
But we now know what they are like.
And we know who they are.
And we know how they’ve been getting away with it.
And we know that if we don’t shop for a while, then the club owners will take the steps necessary to deal with the shoplifters.
They’ve done it once – they’ll do it again.
Ultimately, it’s that simple.
So while some are waiting on LH and others on LNS and yet others on BDO, I’ll be waiting on the new season, every season, and the time for season ticket renewal – and – the International matches.
Football is no longer a spectator sport.
Or then again, maybe it is, but with a new meaning.
And the rule book?
Not with Sevco in the shop.
There are already many fans who have turned their backs on Scottish football as a result of Rangers cheating. Placing them a higher league than is neccessary would send more packing and the only club who would benefit would be Rangers the club who have caused this turmoil.
I think this is worth considering when working through the merits of reconstruction.
Trfc wont play in the spl while CG is in charge, what does this actually mean. Is it against the spl as a seperate body, is it against the clubs who make up the spl who voted not to allow them entry. Do Trfc want to play these clubs, will their fans attend the away games. Will Trfc target the clubs who had a glint in their eyes, CG has stated that he will never forget or forgive, so what is the intention behind that statement, will Trfc never interact with certain clubs or chairmen who made up the spl board. Why do we want to roll over and appease an aggressive entity that holds the top clubs in the country with contempt.
Richard Wilson (@timomouse) says:
Friday, November 2, 2012 at 22:12
3 7 Rate This
There was appetite for reconstruction pre-administration and Doncaster And Regan publicly researched it, deciding that there was no option that would get majority approval. however that approval was based on getting past the 11-1 voting veto, which is no longer an issue, hence why we can debate like this.
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Agreed.
Scottish football is crying out for a move away from the tedious 4 x season SPL matches. Now that the stranglehold of the big two is broken I’m sad to read that there is now opposition to sensible change because of the Rangers bogeyman. I am no fan or follower of Sevco Rangers. I happen to believe it is an illegitimate entity. For all we know it may not see the season out and end up a permanent basket case. To oppose reconstruction to a 14 or 16-team league because it might theoretically benefit Charles Green’s business scheme or somehow catapult that blue team up the leagues is plain wrong in my opinion. It would be a simple case of two wrongs not making a right.
We need to get away from the idea of a structure that generates more money and think about one that creates more competition and entertainment – even if that means not having a great standard initially. Look where chasing money has got us. Another reason to get rid of the likes of Doncaster. If fans see fair competition then there’s a chance they’ll turn out in greater numbers to help the game develop at a sustainable level. We can’t ignore money but it should not be what rules a sport.
The game cannot be seen to condone financial suicide or doping when it occurs, so there need to be consequences, not least as a deterrent but also to demonstrate that the game can regulate itself for the benefit of all it’s members and also the society/community in which it exists. Again, the game should benefit from such action.
I can’t help but recall when football clubs’ spending was starting to be questioned, some years ago, that there was talk that it would take a big club to go bust before clubs started to live within their means. There have been signs of prudence but, if Rangers being liquidated isn’t the clearest signal that every club needs to be completely realistic I don’t know what is. At the same time, a new Rangers walking into the senior game without sporting merit and, worse still, catapulted via reconstruction for financial reasons, would suggest that those in power ought not to be.
carlislecelt says:
Friday, November 2, 2012 at 23:34
9 0 Rate This
There are already many fans who have turned their backs on Scottish football as a result of Rangers cheating. Placing them a higher league than is neccessary would send more packing and the only club who would benefit would be Rangers the club who have caused this turmoil.
_____________________________
Are Rangers necessary?
Tell Gretna, Airdrie and Clydebank about that reconstruction plan would you. The rules were “bent” to let them survive and the rest of us to avoid “civil unrest”, now proposals to subsidise their return to normal service, while everyone else counts their losses. Must be great to be important.
Am I the first to post a link from the Morning Star?
http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/news/content/view/full/125682
Richard Wilson (@timomouse) says:
Friday, November 2, 2012 at 20:55
tomtomaswell says:
Friday, November 2, 2012 at 20:44
To go back to the allusions to Weimar from the blog, we aren’t at the stage where we are appeasing. The debate is how can we ensure prosperity for everyone, as it was post WW1, but the argument or the shadow of the potential of a strong Germany was enough to ensure that the plans for peace (League of Nations, etc) weren’t effective. Germany was used as an argument against reconstruction much as Rangers are now – that the dangers of possibly helping a strong Germany were too great.
The effect was that when Germany did achieve parity, it was driven by vengeance and stronger than ever because it felt it had legitimate grievances and it is that exact rhetoric that we see from Charles Green now – that they don’t need the SPL, that they will show them what for, etc.
Appeasement, historically, came as an avoidance of war far later on in the scheme of things. Reconstruction now would be confronting the problem before it ever arose. People will see it as rewarding Rangers, or like you say, appeasing the lunatic fringe, but it isn’t if it benefits everyone.
Do you want the Marshall Plan or the Treaty of Versailles? One worked because it included everyone and allowed everyone to rebuild and plan on the same terms leading to a 25 year long economic boom, one led to World War Two.
I’m not saying which I feel was better in the long run, but it’s not the latter!
==========================================================================
Write creatively by all means but what on earth have WWI & WWII and the Weimar Republic got to do with Rangers. Allusions are fine but its a bit like saying Thatcher caused more devastation to Britain than The Luftwaffe.
Analysing and commenting on the facts and adding your own insight would be good.
Richard, your scheme isn’t bad, hell it might even work!. Prior to the McCoist/Jardine dog whistles, i would have fully supported your reconciliation now line. However, the dog whistles were a watershed moment, and, whilst I still have no desire to see rangers die permanently, there can be no reconciliation until the full story is laid bare for all to see.
One way or another , whether the football authorities like it or not, its going to happen.,
Sevco statement ………….. “The Rangers Football Club has no outstanding issues with HMRC”
oh really?
Richard Wilson (@timomouse) says:
Friday, November 2, 2012 at 20:55
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Wow….drawing comparisons between Rangers Football Club (now liquidated) Sevco…WW11 and the treaty of versaille….
exfallhoose2012 says:
Friday, November 2, 2012 at 17:34
Twopandas 17.10
Lovely piece of logic, you can buy the medal or the flag but you cannot buy the honour. (You can of course also steal the items … but still not the honours).
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I am ex forces and still keep up with mates from the services, mostly via forums, gatherings and reunions etc. I sometimes gently “mock” some mates who have been “out” for as long as I have. They are still Army Barmy. To me, it was another job I did in another part of my life. It was great fun and I met some fantastic people in postings across the world,but a job just the same. 15 years was long enough. I moved on.
Some of these mates are very intent on, and spend a lot of time, outing “Walts”.(Named after Walter Mitty). They hunt down individuals who buy uniforms and medals and attend various functions/ceremonies for ex servicemen wearing these purchases. I can understand their annoyance as military personnel are being killed or injured in various conflicts around the world. but I view these Walts as sad. Is there something missing in their pathetic lives that makes them covet “hero” status.
They are easily spotted as they often wear mixed orders of dress or have small discrepencies in their uniforms. Some have the medals in the wrong order and/or improperly mounted in a way that only an ex serviceman would notice.
Reading the references above brought home to me the fact that T’Rangers are looking to do the same with this buying of history and honours thing. Maybe I should point this out to the “Simon Wiesenthal type, Walt hunter” friends and have them deal with T’Rangers. I also find it quirky that the name given to these fraudsters is the same as one cardigan attired, brogue wearing,over spending, knight of the realm wannabe.
NB. I believe that there is an office within the Royal British Legion to whom these Walts are reported. They follow these reports up but I don’t know what, if anything the RBL can do about it.
I don’t even know if there is anything illegal in this? I am sure one of the learned commentors will put me straight on this.
Apologies for veering slightly off topic.
WW11? You telling me I’ve missed 9 world wars? Damn I’m spending way too much time on here!
ps Who’s winning?
whullie says:
Saturday, November 3, 2012 at 01:01
Though rarely prosecuted, it remains a criminal offence.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/coventry_warwickshire/8454415.stm
If this reconstruction doesn’t happen before next season starts then by the time next season finishes then the best Trfc can hope for is a place in the second teir. The top leaque will consist of the spl clubs plus the top four in the 1st div. Or will we start with a leaque including Trfc based on criteria that denies at least one club their leaque position earned right to be included.
could a restructure take place in time for next season, do sponsorship and tv deals allow this. How does it effect individual clubs long term sponsorship, advertising and corporate deals given that there will be consequences in exposure and attendances. Will the appetite for desrtucture ( see what i did there ) be on the menu in a few years time if Trfc have progressed through the leagues and the reconstruction has diluted the power of the big two and Trfc would have to accept that they cannot dominate as they would like.
Richard Wilson (@timomouse) says:
Friday, November 2, 2012 at 21:39
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In essence you appear to be saying Richard is this…
It’s for the benefit for all clubs that The Rangers or Sevco if you like are horse shoed back up to the SPL…
Regardless of the machinations and at times the criminality that has been committed…regardless of the cheating…regardless of threats of violence and actual violence…regardless of the shear moral cowardice shown by certain groups…Regardless of the industrial scale tax evasion taking place….Regardless of the lies…you seem to be of the mind that..MONEY IS MORE IMPORTANT
If Rangers FC (now liquidated) had not been caught…if the economic down turn that had such a huge impact on MIH hadn’t happened…would Rangers FC PLC still be cheating and evading tax today…would Moonbeams still be chundering his patronising thoughts across the compliant media…you better believe it.
So do we let the guy move back into the area thats been stealing goods on a hefty scale on the basis he will spend his money in our shops and trades? The fact he stole those goods from us in the first place seems to be irrelevent!
bogsdollox says:
Saturday, November 3, 2012 at 00:13
Write creatively by all means but what on earth have WWI &
WWII and the Weimar Republic got to do with Rangers. Allusions are fine but its a bit like saying Thatcher caused more devastation to Britain than The Luftwaffe.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Invoking Godwin’s law is one thing. But invoking Thatcher is just taking things too far.
I don’t believe restructuring will happen until Sevco are either back in the SPL, which right now with Mcoist in charge looks a very, very long way off, or until they go bust.
The Footballing Authorities are itching to restructure to aid the progression of Sevco, but they know that as it stands the supporters of every other Club would not accept that, they would be forced from their jobs if it was attempted now..
They are now just hoping the resentment and feelings of injustice at what has gone on will fade sooner rather than later. That is their sole agenda. They will literally just spend their days gauging the mood of supporters, then when they feel they have a chance, they will go all out for reconstruction.
And the media will be complicit.
But I really believe they can’t begin to comprehend just how deeply unhappy fans everywhere are with this sad farce that Scottish Football has become.
I can’t see supporters backing down on this until they feel justice has been done. Supporters seem determined that those culpable take responsibility.
It would certainly be a first if they were to take responsibility for their actions, and I think the fact it genuinely would be a first, is the reason supporters will not allow any more corruption of the Leagues to favour a single team.
enoughx2 says:
Saturday, November 3, 2012 at 01:03
WW11? You telling me I’ve missed 9 world wars? Damn I’m spending way too much time on here!
ps Who’s winning?
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The good guys of course.. 😉
tomtomaswell says:
Friday, November 2, 2012 at 21:25
Hi tomtomaswell,
Good piece.
However, I’m not convinced by all of your analysis – although it is persuasive.
“The Marshall Plan was a carefully constructed set of events that was set up to benefit one country. Sure, it helped to rebuild Europe but at what cost?”
The cost was to the British Empire.
While the loans to continental Europe were effectively forgiven the United States squeezed every last drop of cash out of the British Empire.
The Lend Lease debt was only paid off in in 2006.
While the Yanks rebuilt continental Europe they also deliberately crippled their war-time ally in order to weaken the British Empire while increasing their own imperial ambitions.
So, on the plus side, the USA funded the rebuilding of a devastated Europe and helped to create the political and economic space for the European Union to develop.
They also saved Western Europe from the Stalinist version of Communism.
And the “cost” was to set in motion a chain of events that would lead to the collapse of the British Empire.
I, for one, am not complaining about this sequence of events.
I also have to point out that I firmly believe many decent Rangers fans do actually exist.
I would contend that I know many.
Relatives, friends and colleagues who have been with me through trying circumstances.
Situations where their true colours are shown.
I have to say it was not blue… or even orange.
If anything, it was a pretty deep shade of red as they invariably provided me with the type of comradeship that would do a devoted Marxist proud.
While I hold my “Alte Kameraden” in high esteem I do admit I am disconcerted by their inability to see what I see, no matter how many times I point it out to them.
I have raised, as others have on RTC and this blog, cognitive dissonance as a concept that could provide an answer to this particular conundrum.
I maintain we all suffer from it to an extent.
If you are brought up a Rangers fan it must be an extremely difficult thing to shake off.
To discard strong childhood feelings of love and attachment would be a painful process to go through.
It could even bring on an existential crisis.
Much easier if your sub-concious tricks you into believing that you can be a decent human being while still supporting Rangers.
I honestly think that is how things work.
I will vouch for the fact that many of them are decent human beings.
But perhaps my endorsement doesn’t count for much as I also know for a fact that many of them are better specimens of humanity than myself.
(Sorry everyone for going off topic so much in the middle of such historic event, by the way.)
Sorry for OT but a brilliant read from BHRT.
http://broganrogantrevinoandhogan.wordpress.com/2012/11/02/happy-birthday-to-the-sligo-swimmer/
Again OT but BHRT really is a fabulous writer.
http://broganrogantrevinoandhogan.wordpress.com/2012/11/02/lisbon-67-on-a-wing-and-a-prayer-a-mortgage-and-a-man-called-freddie/
Flocculent Apoidea says:
Friday, November 2, 2012 at 23:53
26 0 Rate This
… At the same time, a new Rangers walking into the senior game without sporting merit and, worse still, catapulted via reconstruction for financial reasons, would suggest that those in power ought not to be.
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Floccu,
I agree with this. But the reality is, it happened already when they engineered the Div 3 place for Charles Green. That was the big mistake. I think perceptive Rangers fans will one day see that a year or two out to re-form – and reform – would have been for the best. I don’t see how much-needed reconstruction plants the current blue team back into the top flight anyway. It’s pure speculation, or angst, that they would gain direct promotion from any new Div 2. They haven’t even secured Div 3 yet!
Given the character of the club though, it would seem a much more obvious step for Green to seek admission to the Irish FA. They might be welcome to join the top flight there and a sizable chunk of the fans would probably feel they were going home. Perhaps all it needs is a fans’ petition to start the wheels in motion?
We might even see a return to ceilidh football in Glasgow. I think the domain ceilidhrangers.com is available 😉
Whullie says 1.01
That’s it the Walter Mitty or Walts for short , all we need now is for the cardigan to return and let the singing begin ,Walts Blue Army ,all standing on the terracing’s [4th tier etc] wearing football association medals from across the world that have been collected from various freebie mags and talking of their battles from the past ,how they took cities like Manchester,Barcelona etc out in a day ,ah the memories ,comparing the prison [Jails] camps they have been interred in across Europe during these battles ,well they do keep calling every game a battle now,I better stop now as this is beggining to sound to like reality.
I’ll get ma trenchcoat and get out of this bunker.
Apologies for going off topic ( just catching up) but Dalziel on SSB last night stated that everyone loves Ally ( renamed sneaky snake) the peepil don’t even like him at the moment!!! along with Keevins admission that he didn’t know why rfc IN LIQUIDATION received a European licence a couple of years ago….. but as a sports journalist had never questioned it??? He advised the caller to ask Regan? lol simple answer because they WERE the people …….. They will talk about anything But the facts on this programme ……. Fed up with it all now ….. They cheated …. They should be stripped of titles won at this time ……. They should pay back money owed to HMRC for hospitals, schools, armed forces etc and to all creditors and football teams (did east Stirling ever get their money?) ……… And last but not least they should be thrown out of Scottish football…… Let’s face it if it had been ANY other team that would have happened many moons ago.
Richard Wilson (@timomouse) says:
Friday, November 2, 2012 at 20:55
To go back to the allusions to Weimar from the blog, we aren’t at the stage where we are appeasing.
——
I, for one, have never used the word “appeasement” here with Nazi Germany in mind. It’s become unfortunately associated with that time in history – but retains its meaning outside it.
From the outside point of view, there’s little doubt that attempts have been made to appease Rangers, and that they haven’t worked.
Brenda says:
Saturday, November 3, 2012 at 08:21
3 0 Rate This
Apologies for going off topic ( just catching up) but Dalziel on SSB last night stated that everyone loves Ally …
————-
I heard that on the podcast Brenda. The presenters seem remarkably ill-informed and out of their depth. I hear much better analysis on amatuer podcasts like The Terrace, The Away End, and Scottish Football Forums. But SSB does get some good callers. One guy asked last night about how the (UEFA?) licence for RFC was possible while trading insolvent. ‘We don’t know,’ then they all giggled. Pubs must have open. Well, at least they’re not getting paid taxpayer money for their nightly displays of ignorance.
I think Richard Wilson’s suggestions re: reconstruction are sound, but I am afraid the timing renders them unacceptable. Had the SFA followed their own rulebook and allowed Rangers to die their natural death and have this season out to to allow a new Rangers to emerge then it would have represented a fair and positive way forward. We are simply not in a place to take reconstruction forward at the moment.
As a first step, however I believe that the SFA’s non league senior sides and the SJFA should endeavour to create an elite national league ( or two – on a regional basis) of their better sides over the next couple of seasons and create an agreed pathway from their current structures into these with a view to allowing a genunine pyramidal structure to take place.
Thereafter I think two divisions and two parallel regional third divisions are indeed the way forward – with leagues which allow a full programme with only one home and away game between teams in a season ( probably 18 in a top division and the rest being 20) it would leave 78 teams in the league – a lot for a small country – but it would encompass most of the Highland league teams and many central and southern senior and junior sides.
It is workable and would make sense.
The timing, however, must be in place to allow the structures to work from the bottom up, and to allow preparation – and critically not be seen as appeasement ( even if that is not – and indeed clearly, it is not its intention).
I think the time to look at reconstruction is about 2 – 3 years hence.
There is too much animosity – and too much unfinished business – and too much justified suspicion of the motivations of those at the SFA at present to allow such reconstruction at present.
Alloa manager Paul Hartley: “We have a full strength squad to choose from, except for Megginson, who is ineligible.” If Carlsberg did irony….
Phil M is of the view that there are serious cash flow and structural problems at TRFC/Sevco. And, without a successful share issue the new company will run out of cash and will then face an insolvency event.
http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/getting-sick-of-the-truth/#more-3300
It will be interesting to see if more stories emerge in the MSM (beyond the Times) about Mr Green and the tax investigation which according to reports he is now subject to.
If Phil is correct, then if past performance is an indicator of future behavior then we should see a PR campaign from elements of the MSM ramping up the share issue and deflecting the stories surrounding the new tax investigations surrounding Zeus and Mr Green, combined with Mr Green increasing his theatricals, in playing to the galleries.
Thus, silence from the usual suspects in the MSM and an increased PR campaign pro the share issue will be a strong signal (in my opinion) that raising cash through the share issue is critical to the (short term) survival of TRFC/Sevco and/or Green and others running for the hills.
If the flotation of TRFC/Sevco shares on the AIM is unlikely to deliver before Christmas, given the regulatory hurdles to be cleared by the Company, then as often discussed here its private share time.
It looks odds-on that history (has/is) about to repeat itself (for a third time). The Ibrox Club falling short of working capital, some of its owners in dispute with the revenue, a MSM (in the majority) responding to PR instructions, a (thus far) silent SFA and internet bampots getting geared up for another tax story @sevcotaxcase
The MSM (i.e. the succulent lamb club) and the SFA have a chance to learn from the past. However, this time round, any repeats of their behavior in terms of how they approached the administration and liquidation of RFC will become immediately apparent. There will be no place for them to hide.
If those parties have changed their attitudes and approaches, then we should see journalists asking Mr Green about his tax affairs and how they could affect Rangers and the SFA should be (i) establishing if the Club can meet its financial obligations and (ii) reviewing whether persons are fit and proper to hold office in Scottish football.
What other signs are there that things might change this time round, or, as I fear that history will repeat itself?
rab says:
Friday, November 2, 2012 at 23:43
25 0 Rate This
I think this is worth considering when working through the merits of reconstruction.
Trfc wont play in the spl while CG is in charge …..
=========
It will be renamed ‘The SPL’ …..simples.
DR seems to be having a wee `tidy-up` – yet another link bites the dust – and the cache – Blimey!
Rangers granted SFA licence on eve of new season – Daily Record
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/…/rangers-granted-sfa-licence-on-eve-11874...
RANGERS have finally been handed full SFA membership just hours before the football season kicks off – but the club will vigorously contest any move by the …
There couldn`t be a wee problem with the SFA licence granted on the eve of season? – now could there?
We`ve already lost one `Billionaire`……….
i think that today’s match is the most important match in t’Rangers history. a defeat and all they have left is a grind through the third division with no prospect of meeting anyone from anywhere else for 9 months.
Try selling shares even to the berzz on that prospect. The cash flow is critical – clearly – and a despondent group of fans will ( well might) start actually trying to look at what they are actually being sold. The Green and Zeus tax affairs may awaken even in their heads some catastrophic memories of the club they lost – and still refuse to accept as dead – and ring some alarm bells.
With then no prospect of any jolly cup ties, no possible sources of income beyond the trickle of cash punters at cold and dreich winter SFL 3 games, and no harbouring of some bizarre notion of drawing Celtic in the cup, but instead having to face up to the cold reality of just how truly dreadful the players on the park are – it will take an awful lot of righteous fired up indignation to keep the club going at all.
Whilst the authorities may well one by one have colluded and cheated this club into existence. the realities of the economics of third division football, truly inept control of expenditure and an even more truly inept managerial team may well – once again – ensure that they destroy their club all by themselves.
One can only hope!
iceman63 says:
Saturday, November 3, 2012 at 08:53
4 0 Rate This
I think the time to look at reconstruction is about 2 – 3 years hence.
There is too much animosity – and too much unfinished business – and too much justified suspicion of the motivations of those at the SFA at present to allow such reconstruction at present.
————
Good post iceman. Though what if in 2-3 years from now Green Rangers are back in the SPL? Don’t see it myself, what with the current rumours of new tax cases. But if by some fluke they played their way back, would we see the revival of the Glasgow veto and a continuation of the Self Preservation League? I’d like to think those on the more enlightened side of Glasgow would not allow that to happen. I truly hope the Old Firm is a goner.
Most of us here probably agree that the reconstruction timing is a bit iffy right now. But are the majority of football fans – who just want to turn up and be entertained by a more expansive and less montonous league – in agreement with the TSFM consensus? Not if recent surveys are to be believed. If we let the spiralling absurdity of the Sevco drama dictate the timetable of reform in Scottish football we may be a very long way away from reconstruction.
You truly could not make it up.
http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/sport/leaguedivision3/4624810/Ian-begs-whistlers-to-protect-Rangers.html
‘ it is not fanciful to suggest that Green’s introduction of “the Walter factor” is nothing more substantial than a tactic designed to lure potential shareholders.
More specifically – and of special significance – it is clearly
aimed at the fan investors, those courted by Green over the past ew weeks in the hope of seducing great numbers of them to spend the minimum £500 on new stock.
Institutional investors, the kind most coveted by any company
in the process of a flotation, are not in the business of being
wooed by the sudden appearance of a figure from the past
whose achievements are irrelevant to the present. The Smith
business, in short, suggests strongly that, in advance of the
event, institutional investors are thin on the ground.’
http://m.scotsman.com/sport/football/sfl-division-three/glenn-gibbons-smith-too-shrewd-for-green-s-pr-stunt-1-2612742
With regard to Mr Green and his associates, is it not time the SFA we’re seen to be carrying out a late fitness test?
The secret then Danish for clubs outside Celtic is to get the voting structure changed so that the unholy alliance cannot re-form.
Celtic will also have had three seasons with no Rangers games at all – and will have adapted and they may as a consequence not tie their interests to the new Rangers (assuming they still exist and have made it that far) as they did the last. Far from being a cash cow “Old Firm” branding exercise they may see it as a highly questionable tying of themselves to an unsavoury and possibly unstable fellow Glasgow team.
Economics as well as enlightenment may then make celtic favour reconstruction – it is likely that with oone visit to celtic park by each team – both celtic fans and visitors will atend seeing the occasion as a one-off event in the season. i.e more Morton or Raith fans are likely to attend the one game a season than say St Mirren or Dundee United fans for their twice yearly ones.
Sorry, “were seen”. Bloody iPad.
Lord Wobbly @ 09:50
Attempting to recruit the Cardigan, would suggest that Charlie is more than a little worried about his “flotation”, and indeed could well be getting desperate
I wonder who will be invited on board next, John Greig perhaps
iceman63 says:
Saturday, November 3, 2012 at 09:51
2 0 Rate This
“The secret then Danish for clubs outside Celtic is to get the voting structure changed so that the unholy alliance cannot re-form.”
——–
Yes!
________________
“Celtic will also have had three seasons with no Rangers games at all – and will have adapted and they may as a consequence not tie their interests to the new Rangers (assuming they still exist and have made it that far) as they did the last. Far from being a cash cow “Old Firm” branding exercise they may see it as a highly questionable tying of themselves to an unsavoury and possibly unstable fellow Glasgow team.”
——–
If only. Sorry to be a naysayer iceman, but the cup competitions may yet throw up the odd Glasgow derby now and again, and Sky or ESPN could resurrect a revamped Glasgow Cup just to televise the blue & green freak show. There are powerful voices who’ll support a money-spinner for old times’ sake. The Chick Young’s, SSB presenters, and others, indirectly ‘lobby’ for this and I’ve no doubt there are blue & green fans who genuinely miss the fixture.
Richard Wilson (@timomouse) says:
Friday, November 2, 2012 at 20:37
I appreciate that it’s not a popular notion, but what is better for Scottish football – Rangers in the SPL after promotion through the current league system that doesn’t work or Rangers in the SPL a season earlier in a new system that does? And that’s a question that no-one appears to be prepared to confront.
================
Hiding preferential treatment for one club behind “what is best for Scottish football” is a pathetic argument that the main stream media have been using since this whole disgraceful episode became know to the wider public.
What is best for Scottish football is the same rules applied in the same way to everyone. That simply did not happen. If the authorities had their way New Rangers would be playing in the SPL this year. How can anyone even begin to argue that would have been a proper outcome.
Richard Wilson (@timomouse) says:
Friday, November 2, 2012 at 21:39
Without it, I think we can all predict that Rangers will get back to the SPL eventually, that Rangers’ away days will resemble birthday parties in Chechnya. So a balance must be struck between benefitting the league as a whole and also telling Rangers that they are very naughty boys but, if titles are stripped and they’re in Div 3 now, what more is there to be done?
================================
The club in division 3 doesn’t have any titles to strip.
If and when that happens they will be stripped from the now dead club, and it will simply be a matter of setting some records straight.
Danish Pastry says:
Saturday, November 3, 2012 at 10:24
If only. Sorry to be a naysayer iceman, but the cup competitions may yet throw up the odd Glasgow derby now and again, and Sky or ESPN could resurrect a revamped Glasgow Cup just to televise the blue & green freak show
==========================
What do you mean by “the blue & green freak show”.
I was going to suggest a few days ago that Sir Cardigan Of Dignified Brown Brogues would be soon ‘linked’ to the flundering managers position at Ibrox – but figured it’d be a bit too cliched – but never too cliched (or desperate) for our MSM. Really – how often has Lord Cardigan now been ‘destined’ to return? How many times has this ridiculous notion been peddled??
Talk about a lack of imagination. Is that the best you can do Jack?
Suppose it’s less ridiculous that floating hover pitches mind…but just a bit…and i’m actually starting to think these clowns really do exist in some peculiar parallel universe – and the centre of this logic defying place seems to be somewhere in Edinburgh’s Charlotte Sq seemingly – aye, The Mint’s pulling the strings alright – as demonstarted with his–apparent–delaying tactics of the FTTT ruling. Of course, that could be pash – but after reading some of the posts over the last day or so – it does seem to correlate – and if it is indeed the case – then The Mint is bricking it and expect the Daily Record editorial – Traynors remit in particular – to be filled with various re-hashes of all the old favourites…and a fawning article from Stuart McCall – Terry Butcher has more sense, Bomber is nuts, Gazza is nuts, Goram is a loyalist paramilitary obsessed and unintelligent in-the-extreme ned.
It tells you something when Graham Roberts wont even answer the call to rally the berr’s in these desperate times (Jim Traynor via one of his DR lackies) so basicaly, all the MSM have in the way of ‘credible’ RFC* pov is a bunch of borderline jakes.
Honestly, take a look at yourselves MSM. Andy Goram on a radio show?? There doesn’t seem to be much in the way of point-of-view reportage from so many others who enjoyed so much EBT funded success of past – they don’t want to know by all accounts and all that’s left is the dregs – Is it something to do with having nothing much left in the £ tank, nothing to lose and perhaps others have been more succesful after their playing careers finished – others that would rather maintain a fairly large distance between themselves and Ibrox – but is it the EBT’s – or is it the cringeworthy behaviour of their old Ibrox pals that is keeping them from Mr Traynors scribbles?? What’s your thoughts, Jim?
Maybe it’s both – maybe it’s neither – but it is certainly odd that it’s only the dregs who have got something to say these-days, it would be nice for this to be – at least – acknowleged by the MSM and maybe then, the trees might become a bit clearer…think about it next time Jack is on the phone, Jim…tell him there are a bunch of nuts who are doing their utmost to bring this farce to the Mirror Group shareholders attention too – Media House – RFC* // Mirror Group – Employers ?? Oh…tough call Jim – You could always send your lackie, armed with dictaphone, photographer, pens, paper etc – the works – down to Charlotte Sq instead…
Charlie has fronted the gig pretty well – a good recovery but early signs should have been sufficient warning – and Charles will absolutely regret his involvement in time, he’s lapping it up just now but I have more than a feeling there are more turbulent times ahead for Sevco – Not because there is fair and proper governance and law in this country but instead because certain influences of old – prevailent through generations of societies – is very much diluted and restricted to a lesser degree these-days. There are folk that are complicit and more than just ‘interested parties’ to the omnishambles (c) who are jumping through hoops for the berr’s even now – others have taken refuge (Cambell Ogilvie, Martin Bain, Russel, Johnstone, The Mint etc..etc) and others are still doing their bit via their old networks – Lord Hodge and the blatant delay (ensuring Newco SFL registration) in his ‘investigation’ into the scam. It was a scam, a proven scam and a very blatant scam – I don’t buy any legal explanations to the Lord’s judgement – it’s like using mathematics to square a circle.
A load of bumbling fools though – because it’s the football community itself that has ensured a measure of fair-play and protocal were adhered to – the SPL, SFL1 votes – and the communities of these clubs and their hostility towards all the cheating. Past and present. The MSM and the judiciary can jump through all the hoops they want – when Ibrox is devoid of football, the old establishment will be questioned and their influence will be seen to have been pretty much meaningless in the end.
That is the ‘armagedon’ many of them fear most.
Agrajag says:
Saturday, November 3, 2012 at 10:46
1 0 Rate This
Danish Pastry says:
Saturday, November 3, 2012 at 10:24
If only. Sorry to be a naysayer iceman, but the cup competitions may yet throw up the odd Glasgow derby now and again, and Sky or ESPN could resurrect a revamped Glasgow Cup just to televise the blue & green freak show
==========================
What do you mean by “the blue & green freak show”.
————
I mean that the only reason broadcasters outwith Scotland want this fixture is because they view it as a potentially explosive derby, played in a poisonous atmosphere, which will produce aggression, sendings off, and flare-ups. In other words, they think they’re getting (and probably hope for) a freak show, not a football match.
Have you ever asked anyone outside of Scoland how they view the Glasgow derby and what they associate it with? It’s certainly not for a display of silky football skills.
Now, what did you think I meant?
Nice to see Glenn Gibbons paraphrasing what was written on here – 24 hours ago!
However, Walter Smith has questions to answer on his involvement in the Rangers mess. I seem to remember a tv interview with him AFTER the club went into administration where he stated that Rangers needed £20 million for players. Not the statement of a man who was displaying the remotest awareness of how much doo-dah his former team was really in.
Alex Thompson can help with the questions which need to be answered by Walter.
http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/walter-smith-questions-rangers-legend/1947
http://www.thefootballlife.co.uk/post/34892492791/clarifying-the-shieldhall-putsch
Clarifying last night’s post tying it up with some of the comments made on here (that were there when I started writing it).
Agrajag:
Try telling the Bears that their club doesn’t have titles to strip. The fans have carried over and see it as the same club and no amount of telling them otherwise will change that.
I’ve never suggested treating Rangers differently. They are 1 club of 42 in a system that has failed and, as part of that system, any solution has to involve them. I could just have easily asked what is better – Montrose in the SPL after successive promotions in a system that has failed, or Montrose in the SPL a season earlier in a reconstructed system that works. They are 1 club of 42 with equal share and equal right to be part of the discussion.
What punishment past liquidation and title stripping can be applied to Rangers*? Getting Murray et al on trial is unrelated and shouldn’t affect football matters short of giving journos a few weeks worth of material.
I’m just waiting for Charles to change his name by deed poll to Bill Struth now
when did the system fail? i mustve missed that.
Danish Pastry says:
Saturday, November 3, 2012 at 11:05
Now, what did you think I meant?
=============================
I didn’t know, so I asked. Which I believe was the proper way to respond.
I don’t think your reasons justify the use of the term “freak show” which I think is actually quite offensive, but I do now know what you meant.
Richard I think you are beginning to flog a dead horse or maybe a parrot
If Rfc* fans want to live in a world of delusion where club 2012 is club 1872
you’re right ,we cannot change that but please dont ask me to play along with it
You also never addressed the issue of finance where the fans walk away from
football when they see your plan implemented . An honest game and a level playingfield
are far more important than finance ,if we have the former the latter will follow
If we put the latter as the priority we put the former at risk
Richard,
I read your suggestions for reconstruction with interest, and that you think it will create a situation where TRFC become a less destructive element as a result of pushing ahead with the reconstruction, enabling them to re-enter the top tier a year early. Unfortunately, you don’t tell us why you think this early return will make them much nicer people, removing the resentment and hate from thir psyche. As far as I can see, it would only add to their supremacist and WATP beliefs and, in all probablity, make them worse. Another thing that should be taken into account is; that the longer they are out of the top tier, the longer they have ‘to get over it’. With the FTTT result known and analysed to the nth degree, many of them (though not all, it’ll never be all) will have realised just how lucky, and more than fairly treated, they have been.
As to the analogy with ‘between the wars’ Germany, we have to decide where TRFC are, or are represented, within the analogy. Are they the devastated Germany, struggling to re-build while weighed down with guilt? Or are they, in fact, the Nazi party, using lost glories, feelings of entitlement and the belief of being the supreme people, with a beligerant, loud mouthed leader and massive PR/propoganda machine whipping up the dregs of society into a frenzy? Is the Scottish League represented by the ‘rest of the world’ or by the Weimar Repubic, struggling to reconstruct while a cancer was growing, unchecked through fear, within it’s borders?
What must be remembered, too, is that appeasement didn’t lead to the rise of the Nazi party, it only started once Hitler was in power and the world started to realise the power and danger therin. It was the inaction of the German government, and fear to do the right thing (think of Herr Doncaster and Herr Regan), that allowed the Nazi Party to grow strong, and for good men to do nothing while the thugs, full of their vile bogitry, reclaimed their ‘heritage’. It was the reconstruction of Germany that created a situation where the good people took their eyes off the ball and allowed the evil to grow strong.
Until the Rangers Problem is sorted out, completely, reconstruction of the Scottish League must stay on the back burner, allowing the men of integrity within the game to concentrate on making it clean. For, with all the reconstruction in the world, Scottish football is never going to be that great, but it would be great to feel we had a league with nothing to be ashamed of.
tommythehat at 10:56am mentions goings on in Charlotte Square. Well it seems there have been even more goings on in Charlotte Square, but this time next door to Sir David Murray’s office…
On Tuesday of this week, a set of bland written answers were published in the Scottish Parliament’s website. A list of people who the First Minister has met in Bute House. Chinese diplomats, big pharmaceutical companies etc.
In June 2011 he also met Our Hero Mr Whyte. Now I think that is fair enough – a courtesy meeting with the new Billionaire owner of Rangers – and we know the First Minister likes his billionaires (Murdoch, Trump) is not exactly unsurprising.
But much more importantly he met Craig Whyte in Bute House again on the 15th December 2011…….
Remember this is now After the BBC had exposed Whyte as not fit to be a director.
After Whyte says he told SPL & SFA he was going into Administration.
After Rangers had stopped paid tax and NI and stopped paying Strathclyde Police and the Scottish Ambulance service
…..and just 8 weeks before going into Administration and the First Minister calling on HMRC to go easy on Rangers.
I believe Whyte was there to get Salmond to lobby HMRC on Rangers behalf – and that The First Minister knew Rangers were about to go into administration 8 weeks before it happened.
http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/S4_ChamberDesk/WA20121029.pdf
I wonder if Our Hero was taping it……..
or maybe they were just having Christmas dinner together…. succulent turkey anyone?
Tim Tim
He would as well change his name to Tommy Cooper ,every trick he is trying is falling flat but the bers are lapping up the show,just like that.
A sevcovian at work was telling a workmate how “the team he goes to see is the same one he has always gone to see,absolutely no change at all”,now I usually ignore talking about them only because they don’t or wont see the truth of the matter but on this occasion I asked him,”if you’re the same club why can’t they play in europe for 3 years”? To which he replied “we can play in europe”,astounded I said “so if they win this seasons scottish cup you think that as winners they’ll play in europe”?
“Yes” was his reply
WOW!!
I kinda hope they do win it just to see what excuse they would come out with when not playing there the following season.
Danish Pastry says:
Saturday, November 3, 2012 at 11:05
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Agrajag says:
Saturday, November 3, 2012 at 10:46
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Danish Pastry says:
Saturday, November 3, 2012 at 10:24
If only. Sorry to be a naysayer iceman, but the cup competitions may yet throw up the odd Glasgow derby now and again, and Sky or ESPN could resurrect a revamped Glasgow Cup just to televise the blue & green freak show
==========================
What do you mean by “the blue & green freak show”.
————
I mean that the only reason broadcasters outwith Scotland want this fixture is because they view it as a potentially explosive derby, played in a poisonous atmosphere, which will produce aggression, sendings off, and flare-ups. In other words, they think they’re getting (and probably hope for) a freak show, not a football match.
Have you ever asked anyone outside of Scoland how they view the Glasgow derby and what they associate it with? It’s certainly not for a display of silky football skills.
Now, what did you think I meant?
____________________________________________________________
100% correct, DP, in my experience, at least.
I live in a football mad town in Derbyshire, but have only once come across anybody who has gone to the pub to specifically watch the OF match. And the reason they gave? The last time there were sendings off and off the field trouble and they were hoping it was all going to happen again. Three blokes only, the rest were only glancing at the tv screens occassionally, more interested in talking about Man Utd or City than watching ‘the greatest game in the world’. I can also honestly say that I have gone into the pub when the OF match was being televised and the tv screens in the pub were tuned into non-sports channels, with nobody even aware the match was being played, and nobody interested even after I mentioned it, with East Enders, or whatever, remaining on. Such was/is the interest!
DogsB 0.10 et al
The Luftwaffe failed to destroy the fabric of British Society, Thatcher succeeded. If those with the power to keep the Govan Club in existence, no matter what, suceed, then Rangers will have done a Thatcher to Scottish Football.
Reference ‘The Walter Factor’ – is this Walter Mitty or Walter Smith … or are they one and the same person? We ought to be told!
allyjambo says:
Saturday, November 3, 2012 at 11:59
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Danish Pastry says:
Saturday, November 3, 2012 at 11:05
7 0 i
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Agrajag says:
Saturday, November 3, 2012 at 10:46
1 0 Rate This
Danish Pastry says:
Saturday, November 3, 2012 at 10:24
If only. Sorry to be a naysayer iceman, but the cup competitions may yet throw up the odd Glasgow derby now and again, and Sky or ESPN could resurrect a revamped Glasgow Cup just to televise the blue & green freak show
==========================
What do you mean by “the blue & green freak show”.
————
I mean that the only reason broadcasters outwith Scotland want this fixture is because they view it as a potentially explosive derby, played in a poisonous atmosphere, which will produce aggression, sendings off, and flare-ups. In other words, they think they’re getting (and probably hope for) a freak show, not a football match.
Have you ever asked anyone outside of Scoland how they view the Glasgow derby and what they associate it with? It’s certainly not for a display of silky football skills.
Now, what did you think I meant?
____________________________________________________________
“…. I live in a football mad town in Derbyshire, but have only once come across anybody who has gone to the pub to specifically watch the OF match. And the reason they gave? The last time there were sendings off and off the field trouble and they were hoping it was all going to happen again.”
———–
Same experience here allyjambo. It’s not a famous derby, it’s infamous. To be honest, calling it a freak show is quite a mild description:
“freak show
Noun:
An unusual or grotesque event viewed for pleasure.”
Tinchy Stryder (A decent bear?)
When asked if putting money into the club was something the rapper / entrepreneur would consider, he kept his cards close to his chest, saying: “I like them, I like their football yeah, I’ll keep it as that.”
http://entertainment.stv.tv/showbiz/197508-tinchy-stryder-talks-love-for-glasgow-rangers-and-whether-hell-invest/
Am I the only Celtic fan on here who quite positively is NOT missing the “old firm” games? The absence of Rangers (in whatever guise) has cleared the air and made the SPL a much improved league from every aspect. Now Richard Wilson wants TRFC shoehorned back into the top tier via some targeted reconstruction “for the good of football”.
Well we have recently seen TRFC shoehorned into SFL3 via the procrastination of Lord Hodge and the incompetence/collusion/corruption (take your pick, it’s all three for me) of the SFA leadership. The fact that Sevco have already had the greatest piece of favouritism in the history of football bestowed upon them seems to bypass Mr Wilson completely.
And has this blatant favouritism lanced the boil that is Rangers? Not in the slightest, it has just reinforced the arrogance, the supremacist mentality, and the WATP mindset. Having received this great favour, the only response from Ibrox and their MSM parasites is “more of the same, and make it quick”. Such lovely people, how on earth could Scottish football survive without them?