Comment on On Grounds for Judicial Review by Finloch.
BOBFERRISAUGUST 9, 2017 at 12:24 ……. I write to Les Gray enclosing my newly purchased season ticket. I keep it fairly brief but make it clear exactly why I’m taking this stance. No reply as yet, almost two weeks later, but I didn’t anticipate one. I feel like walking away from Scottish football completely. All the clubs are complicit so there will be no repeat of 12/13 for me. One more empty seat at NDP will make little difference but it’s all I can do….
…More power to those setting up a Judicial Review, I will contribute to any crowd funding. We need to see The Asterisk Years. Then we can move on……..
Your post really hits a nerve Bob.
If the supermarkets or banks treated customers or shareholders the way most clubs, The SFA, The SPFL etc treat us their stakeholders there would be uproar.
Les Gray isn’t worthy of fans like you.
We the stakeholders in Scottish Football need to tell them what is acceptable to us and will probably have to fight politically for a code of conduct that is imposed on them from above.
Scottish Football needs more Bob Ferrises
Finloch Also Commented
On Grounds for Judicial Review
THEOLDCOURSEAUGUST 24, 2017 at 12:42
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/41038340Hmm, seems the wee Rovers did not use the Bryson defence in this case. if they had then they would probably still be in the competition.
In all seriousness though, the whole thing stinks to high heaven. One rule for some and a different rule for those who don’t pass the sniff test.
The outcome i.e Albion Rovers getting thrown out was known last week when Edinburgh Council were involved in pre discussions for the game on the 2nd of September at Spartans home ground.
Why it took till today to announce it is a question worth asking.
Stewart Regan, Chief Executive at the Scottish FA, said: “This is an important survey for us and we use the findings to help us understand the issues affecting Scottish football and to review and measure fans’ attitudes from year to year. “Supporters Direct Scotland are part of our Congress and have a voice on that platform alongside club representatives, PFA Scotland, the media and other league and affiliate members. We will consider these findings within Congress and will also focus on some of the topics at our annual Convention. Our aim will be to share good practice and spark discussion around how Scottish football can do more to deliver value for money to supporters. “This is an area that we are working on with our Scotland Supporters Club. This campaign we’ve invested in a shuttle bus service to help supporters get to and from Hampden for Scotland international matches and we have also introduced fan zones at our home games. On top of this, we are in the middle of a separate research project looking at ways to improve the Scotland Supporters Club package. We’ve had 3,000 responses to our call for feedback which will help us shape the offer in the future. “Tackling unacceptable conduct also remains at the forefront of our minds and earlier this year we strengthened our guidance to our members with the clubs now accepting more responsibility in Scottish Cup matches to investigate and impose sanctions on those who have misbehaved at our games.” SPFL Chief Executive Neil Doncaster welcomed the input of supporters, saying: “The Scottish Football Supporters Survey is a very valuable, annual barometer of the issues most important to fans across the country. We thank each and every fan who took the time to complete the survey which again shows just how much Scottish football supporters care about the game. “The SPFL recognises that value for money and ticket pricing are, and arguably always will be, top priorities for supporters while also acknowledging the considerable work clubs commit to in this area, which was an ‘ask’ of last year’s survey. Indeed a 14% reduction in those who deem ‘value for money’ as being poor or very poor is evidence that clubs are making some progress on this front. On pricing specifically, the most recent BBC Price of Football survey again provided considerable evidence of ticket prices either being frozen or reduced across all leagues, with the average price of the cheapest season ticket across all 12 Ladbrokes Premiership clubs down. Further, the SPFL’s own research last November revealed that the vast majority of clubs provide free tickets for community groups, charitable causes and others who would find it otherwise challenging to attend a game, with an estimated 84,000 given away in the season before last. There is always more work that can be done and we welcome the input of SD Scotland, working with the SPFL and Scottish FA, to proactively examine and identify further innovations in pricing as well as new ideas around value for money and added value which could be put forward for consideration by clubs. “On the subject of Unacceptable Conduct, we continue to work closely with Scottish Government, Scottish FA and our clubs. In January of this year the SPFL published updated and newly approved League-wide guidance on Unacceptable Conduct, applicable to all 42 member clubs. Recently, we also agreed to collate and share information with both the Scottish Government and Police Scotland regarding incidents of Unacceptable Conduct at SPFL matches at regular intervals throughout the current Scottish football season. This demonstrates the SPFL’s commitment to curbing Unacceptable Conduct in our stadia and we continue to work with the Scottish Government on this matter. It is important we all continue to work together to help make Scottish football as safe and welcoming an environment for fans as possible. “While the purpose of the survey is to identify areas for improvement, it is also worth highlighting some of Scottish football’s success stories, investments and opportunities, both recent and current. That 63% of supporters are in favour of the new format of the Betfred Cup is a real vindication of the brave decision of clubs to shake up the format – with the return to a pre-Christmas final particularly popular – and is reflected in a significantly enhanced live broadcast deal and record payouts to clubs competing. There has been major investment and innovation at some of our biggest clubs’ stadia to enhance matchday experience for supporters, Celtic Park’s safe standing area (the first in the UK) and the new Tynecastle Park main stand development being two great examples. Further, Aberdeen FC is presently campaigning for support for a new stadium development, which would be the biggest seen in this country for many years and includes supporter-friendly facilities such as a dedicated fan zone, community pavilion, museum, café and bar. Investment in current and new stadia, at all levels, can only further improve the quality of experience for fans of all ages. “We all share a common goal of wishing Scottish football to be in the very best health possible, both on the pitch and off it, for the benefit of supporters, players and all involved at our 42 clubs. Supporters Direct Scotland has an important role to play in representing the view of fans across Scotland and we look forward to working with Andrew Jenkin and his team to identify ways to further enhance the game for supporters in the year ahead.” ENDS For more information please contact:Andrew Jenkin, Head of SD Scotlandandrew.email@example.com / 07769 175 480 About SD Scotland
SD Scotland help fans to set up democratic cooperatives to gain influence in the running and ownership of their clubs.SD and SD Scotland represent over 200 supporters’ trusts and similar organisations in England, Scotland and across Europe, with over 750,000 members.SD Scotland’s activities include running the Scottish Supporters Network, representing supporters on a wider scale within the Governance structures of Scottish football, assisting clubs with the Supporter Liaison Officer role, Colours of our Scarves, their equality in sport programme and Club Development Scotland, their consultancy service helping to facilitate community ownership of clubs and their growth.SD Scotland are the Supporter Representative body on the Scottish FA Congress
Find out more www.supporters-direct.scotTwitter: @SuppDirectScot
On Grounds for Judicial Review
You’ve already seen some of the stuff on the Supporters Direct survey.
Here is the press release from the marketing agency who are managing us.
It comes complete with quotes from Regan and Doncaster and others so no journo has the inconvenience of thinking up questions or phoning them for a wee chat.
We are all being coralled and kettled.
They are cynically making the lead headline about value for money which makes us all look at our clubs first and the SFA and SFPL second.
I’d say that is a bit on the outrageous side.
Enjoy and then compare who actually writes anything when you see it reported in tonights and tomorrows news
Scottish Football Supporters Survey 2017 results revealed by Supporters Direct Scotland
DATE: TUESDAY 22 AUGUST 2017
Value for money considered, “the biggest threat to the future of the game in the next five years”Nearly 14,000 submissions to 2017 survey, in partnership with Scottish FA & SPFLResults presented to Scottish FA’s Professional Game Board, disseminated to all 42 pro clubsGoverning bodies have committed to listening and engaging with supportersTicket pricing, kick off times and the relationship fans have with their clubs considered to be the three most important factors in decision to attend a gameFans don’t believe Scottish football is committed to a high-quality fan experience (over 55% either disagree or strongly disagree)
Supporters Direct Scotland (SD Scotland) today reveals results of its 2017 Scottish Football Supporters Survey, in partnership with the Scottish FA and the SPFL.
Amongst the key headlines from this year’s consultation, which engaged around 14,000 fans via almost every club in Scotland, are that supporters do not believe the admission price for games in Scotland represents value for money. “Your relationship with your club,” ranked third as a determinate around whether supporters would attend matches. And over 50% of supporters believe there should be more resources given to tackle and stamp out forms of unacceptable conduct, but there was not majority support for “strict liability”. A large majority (71%) were opposed to the Offensive Behaviour Act (OBA). SD Scotland has set out three core “asks” to football’s governing bodies in Scotland as a result of the findings namely:
ASKOUTCOMEChallenge clubs and the Scottish FA to examine how they improve the value for money including within ticket pricesSD Scotland to organise a national event for clubs on the issue of ticket pricing and the matchday experienceClubs to think best how they can further involve and engage fans within the governance and ownership of clubs, whether this be through “structured dialogue” or fan representation.SD Scotland to publish document around “structured dialogue” and how best clubs can engage with their supportersThat the Scottish Government review legislation that aims to curb unacceptable conduct, and that more resources are committed by stakeholders towards tackling unacceptable conductSD Scotland to facilitate a supporter led event on how best to tackle issues of unacceptable conduct with SPFL & Scottish FA involvement. The majority of Scottish fans believe the admission price for games in Scotland is either ‘very poor’ or ‘poor’ value for money according to the survey. Although this is the most significant concern for supporters, the number who considered value for money poor or very poor has reduced by 14% year on year. The issue of value for money is a theme throughout supporter responses with fans considering affordability of the game to be the biggest threat to the future of the game. and 55% of fans disagreeing with the idea that Scottish football is committed to a high-quality fan experience. Interestingly, 75% of supporters say that they don’t base their decisions on attending matches around live TV selections. Although 56% believe Scottish football doesn’t reflect good value for money, positively that statistic has dropped 5% from last year. Officially recognised as the lead supporters group in Scotland by the Scottish Professional Football League (SPFL) and the Scottish Football Association (Scottish FA), Supporters Direct Scotland has established a formal means to engage with the game’s key decision makers and represent fans’ views. This is achieved through the organisation’s place on the Scottish FA Congress as Supporter Representatives. Findings of this year’s survey have also been presented or shared with:
Scottish FA’s Professional Game BoardSupporter Liaison Officer Network in ScotlandAll 42 SPFL clubsPolice ScotlandMinister for Sport & Mental HealthThe Scottish Government’s civil serviceOther key themes to arise from the survey include the supporter experience and fans’ involvement and relationship with their clubs.
A majority of supporters do not want strict liability or were unsure about it (52%)Over 81% of fans think Scottish football has an issue with sectarianism50% of fans have been subjected to sectarianism in and around football stadia in Scotland18% of participants feel they’ve been subjected to physical abuse in and around Scottish football stadia71% of fans don’t believe the Offensive Behaviour Act (OBA) has been effective in preventing unacceptable conduct by supportersFans feel they should have partial ownership (including board representation) in their clubs over any other level of involvement – 63%88% of fans are in favour of safe standingDisabled fans think their club provide adequate facilities for disabled fansThe survey results come a time of significant change for Supporters Direct Scotland who will become an independent organisation from December 2017. Supporters Direct Scotland will also establish a new charity foundation to support ongoing work to promote community engagement. Head of Supporters Direct Scotland Andrew Jenkin says: “What we are seeing now is a really clear demand from supporters to see greater value for money around football. Supporters Direct Scotland appreciates the extremely challenging balance that our clubs face, and we want to support them. Addressing value for money might include looking at more pricing variation, and ways of delivering added value. Attendances are by-and-large an improving picture, but it’s absolutely critical we future-proof Scottish football by being on the front foot. “Once again, supporters also tell us they want to be engaged by their clubs. The relationship a supporter has with a club has a direct impact on their decision to attend games or spend money. That means there is a role for clubs to think really carefully about how they reflect the values of their club, not the other way around. To reflect the values of your supporters you need to know and talk to them, and we hope our forthcoming new guide on Structured Dialogue can be effective in providing examples of best practice. “Supporter experience is not rated highly, and part of that is dictated to by fan behaviour. Supporters continue to tell us there is a problem, and now there’s a real moving sense that the Offensive Behaviour Act, for its broad promises has delivered little. So we have a problem, but not the sort of solution that is necessary. In order to positively influence the future agenda here, we are asking the SPFL and the Scottish FA to work with us to deliver a supporter-led event on how we can bring about a change in culture needed to ensure that our grounds are bouncing with enthusiasm, but not unnecessarily aggressive. “We’re making these asks to Scottish football at a time when as an organisation we are making a genuine difference to the game in this country. Our Supporter Liaison Programme in partnership with the Scottish FA and supported by UEFA is providing training and development to the increasing number of SLOs across the country. “Our Club Development Scotland project has seen us work with a number of professional and community clubs providing financial, legal and practical advice around developing sustainable community led business models. “Colours of our Scarves, remains our flagship community programme promoting tolerance and equality in schools across the country. “We have also recently secured funding to explore the setting up of a “Fans Bank” or community fund, which would allow for Supporters Direct Scotland to potentially set up a social investment loan facility for clubs at all levels of the game to use the resource for social benefit. The funding from the Paul Hamlyn Foundation will be used to research, analyse and develop a robust model for the future. “Supporters can play a significant role in securing the brightest future for Scottish football. Our commitment is to work with those who govern the game – and the country – to ensure that the voice of supporters is heard, and acted upon.”
Recent Comments by Finloch
It Is Better To Offer No Excuse Than A Bad One
I heard today that Craig Graham the Spartans chairman is awarded an MBE in the New Year Honours list.
I’m pleased for Craig and Spartans.
Craig took a Corinthian and undisciplined club going nowhere fast, rooted it into a previously ignored community and has achieved some incredible health and social goals deep into that community using football as glue.
other clubs are now slowly learning from his vision and Scottish football is better for what he has done
Yes he could have been and should have been knighted
but to paraphrase our old pal Red Lichtie
Scottish Football needs more Craig Graham’s.
It Is Better To Offer No Excuse Than A Bad One
DECEMBER 20, 2017 at 09:04Given all the recent conjecture re PSC and potential new loans, I am still wondering what exactly it is that King is getting out of his involvement in T’Rangers.
Its a legitimate business with amazing annual revenue generation capacity and a very committed customer base and friends on high.
It was a unique opportunity to talk down a share price to the disadvantage of some mug punters and to get significant control level shareholding quite cheaply.
With an inside well-coiffeured friend in situ he had access to knowledge most people wouldn’t have access to.
There are various sub companies in the group where personal unseen revenue streams might be forthcoming.
It might even be a good way to repatriate monies from South Africa or maybe elsewhere into the UK or indeed somewhere else.
Chairman of an establishment club is also a nice position to have if you have an ego that needs constant tending and you know that no media outlet will ever look at what is really happening under the bonnet.
Maybe there is also an opportunity to take advantage of some other directorial shareholders, who may be real Rangers men, but are just not be as incisive with the particulars skills G&SL seems to have built his wealth upon.
And finally if there is a sort of nod and wink understanding in certain quarters that when the time is right that SDM and a new consortium will come to the rescue then the shares will be worth having.
Or control of a situation that needs Blair Nimmo or Bryan Jackson called in?
But what do I know anyway?
It Is Better To Offer No Excuse Than A Bad One
John Clark – Have you been tapped up?
Fans for Judicial Review – Counsel Opinion
A few initial thoughts on the counsels view that “There is not a case in law to force the SFA to comply”.
i.e. The SFA has the right not to have a review because there is no precedent.
(I wish Paul McConville was still with us).
Firstly there may be no precedent and yes in law that makes it difficult but surely there must always be a first to make a precedent.
Could this be a first?
Then two thoughts are about following the money because that may also be a route that offers traction.
As someone who paid money to watch the game over the period do I personally and or jointly with other fans who similarly paid have the right to take action either against my club or the SFA?
Are there precedents here?
And on a larger scale if our government have provided funds in any way during the period do we as fans have the right to take action against the government or the government the right to take action against the SFA?
There will almost certainly be precedents here because Government money always comes with built-in controls and conditions attatched.
And looking forward will the Scottish Government ever agree to be seen to provide future funds to an organisation which has highly questionable internal and no external controls?
Who Is Conning Whom?
So the Derek McInnes “Tapping by Media” project failed well after the 11th hour when the media had told us he was already choosing curtains in Glasgow.
The Ibrox club and their fans were convinced by their chairman’s statement last week at the AGM and the media barrage too and last night were in shock and caught napping – hence the stupid press statement and attempt to make it known to us all that they didn’t really want him anyway and were just having a concomitant kick at the McInnes/Docherty tyres.
However that isn’t all that happened yesterday.
There was a wee meeting at Hampden called “The SFA Congress and Convention”.
Its a kind of series of regular very important meetings where everyone who is valued in football gets invited to see what a great job Stewart Regan and the SFA are undertaking on our behalf.
And let me say that there is no doubt that some of what The Congress seeks to do and does will indeed be for the good but we the fans wouldn’t know it because we were not invited.
This is a paragraph from this weeks SFSA (Scottish Football Supporters Association) newsletter that I received having filled in their recent survey on Scottish Football.
The SFA Convention this ThursdayOn Thursday, member clubs will gather at Hampden for the 2017 Scottish FA convention to share best practice, discuss current trends and participate in workshops geared towards improving the game: scotfa.co/convention17 according to their publicity on social media. Sadly the SFA has failed to invite any representative from Scotland’s only national fans organisation, the SFSA. We had anticipated that given the huge amount of unpaid work that we do for fans and clubs and being Scotland’s representatives at the Football Supporters Europe network our presence might have been merited. Despite claiming it has invited the “football family” the SFA have missed yet another opportunity to engage properly with ordinary football supporters. Could it possibly be related to the independent academic research that we organised last month that dared to criticise the governance of the game or maybe the invite was just lost in the post?
The failure to engage with fans is nonsense.
SFSA’s recent research asked some real questions from over 16000 bona fide Scottish fans. This was an incredible response that provided an incredible insight into what we the fans really think.
I know that Supporters Direct Scotland who are funded by the SFA were there as valued guests but SFSA who have people like Henry McLeish (of the report) and Cathy Jamieson (of Bernard son) on their board were not even invited.
Given that economic analysis of revenue generation confirms that in Scotland the real stakeholders and economic generators are us the fans
We are the people (Sic) who pay for season books and buy merchandise and pies and fund the clubs and their wages.
The people who get to see English Internationals on council telly but not our own country’s.
The people whose game seems to only have Betting Company Sponsors.
The people whose administrators cannot organise things like properly numbered balls in their top cup competitions so that there are two Brora Rangers in some draws!
Why were the SFSA not invited as valued members and contributors to your Congress Stewart?
Are the real fans and their views such a threat to your Congress and Convention?
Is there a danger they might ask questions that don’t fit with your pre determined script?
And a wee hint to the SMSM
Isn’t there a story in this?