On the Old Club vs New Club (OCNC) debate, the SFA’s silence has been arguably the most damaging factor with respect to the future of the game. Of course people get frustrated when there is a deliberate policy of silence on the part of the SFA which results in the endless cycle of arguments being trotted out again and again with no resolution or closure possible.
The irony (it’s only irony if you assume that the SFA have gone to great lengths to create the conditions for the unbroken history status of the new club) is that the mealy-mouthed attitude they have adopted has actually polarised opinion in a far more serious and irreconcilable way than had they just made a clear statement when Sevco were handed SFA membership. A bit of leadership, with a decision either way at that time would have spiked a lot of OCNC guns very early on, but as history shows, they were afraid of a backlash from wherever it came.
I am now convinced that Scottish Football has passed the Event Horizon and is broken beyond the possibility of any repair that might have taken it back to its pre-2010 condition. Rangers fans will never – no matter what any eventual pronouncement from Hampden may be – accept that their next trophy will be their first. The trouble is that no-one else – again despite anything from Hampden – will cast them as anything else other than a new club who were given a free passage into the higher echelons of the game. Furthermore, they will forever force that down the throats of Rangers fans whenever and wherever they play. A recipe for discord, threats of violence, actual violence, and a general ramping up of the sectarian gas that we had all hoped, only a year or so ago, was to be set to an all-time low peep.
There is a saying in politics that we get the government we deserve. It works both ways though, and the SFA will get the audience it deserves. In actual fact it is the one it has actively sought over the last couple of years, for they have tacitly (and even perhaps explicitly) admitted that Scottish Football is a dish best served garnished with sectarianism. They have effectively told us that without it, the game cannot flourish, and they stick to that fallacy even although the empirical evidence of the past year indicates otherwise.
That belief is an intellectual black-hole they have now thrust the game into. They have effectively said that only two clubs actually matter in Scottish football. The crazy thing is that to put their plans into action they have successfully persuaded enough of the other clubs to jump into the chasm and hence vote themselves into irrelevance and permanent semi-obscurity.
That belief is also shared by the majority in the MSM, who despite their lofty, self-righteous and ostensibly anti-sectarian stance, have done everything they can to stir the hornet’s nest in the interests of greater sales.
Act as an unpaid wing of a PR company, check nothing, ask nothing, help to create unrest, and then tut-tut away indignantly like Monty Python Pepperpots when people take them to task.
Consequently the victims of all the wrongdoing (creditors and clubs) walk away without any redress or compensation for the loss of income and opportunity (and history) – stripped of any pride and dignity since they do so in the full knowledge of what has happened. But even as they wipe away the sand kicked in their faces, those clubs still insist on the loyalty of their own fanbases, the same fans whose trust they have betrayed with their meek acceptance of the new, old order.
The kinder interpretation of the impotence of the clubs is that they want to avoid the hassle and move on, the more cynical view that they are interested only in money, not people. In either case, sporting integrity, in the words of Lord Traynor of Winhall (Airdrie, not Vermont), is “crap”.
The question is; which constituency of 21st century Scotland subscribes to that 17th century paradigm?
Sadly, this massive hoax, this gigantic insult to our collective intelligence, is working. Many will leave the game – many already have in view of the spineless absence of intervention from their own clubs – but many, many more will stay and support the charade.
If you doubt my prediction, ask yourself how many tickets will be unsold the first time the New Rangers play Celtic at Parkhead? That my friends will be final imprimatur of authenticity on just exactly who New Rangers are, no matter the proclamations of both sides of the OCNC argument.
neepheid says: (916)
December 5, 2013 at 10:16 am
“I wish the league was more competitive, but I would like the strong competition to come from Aberdeen, ICT, Dundee Utd…”
I’d say that is, quite clearly, a pipe dream – a flight of fantasy.
Indeed, the absence of a competitive Rangers – by ensuring the UEFA windfalls only ever go to one team’s bank account rather than spread between two – if anything serves to entrench the financial gulf between Celtic and the non-Old firm sides.
I’d maintain there are only two groups (among rational fans): those happy to romp a one-horse race, or those willing to endure the perceived hardships Rangers presence brings in order to retain what is, at the very least, the potential for a competitive title race. None whatsoever exists without Rangers FC in the top division, at least if you hold to some notion of all clubs living within their means.
It’s a stark choice, but I think the search of a ‘third way’ recalling the early 80’s is just not viable in the current climate.
39.98 and counting
39.97 and counting
It’s like the end of a James Bond film. The countdown always ends with a massive explosion and Sevco’s, I mean Spectre’s, lair reduced to smoking rubble.
Fisiani says: (41)
The Rangers are like the Titanic . They are sinking.
—————————————————————————————————
If someone predicted 5 years ago that Rangers would be liquidated in 2012, what do you think the response would have been? For this to have happened to this club is nothing short of a miracle. I never ever thought an event like this was possible in this country. This surpasses the Berlin Wall coming down in my opinion (a bit over the top but hey). Think of all the entities that tried to save this corrupt club which was labelled as the fabric of our society, to no avail. It was out of their control and so the grim reaper moved into Govan. Now the same powers that be came up with the company story blah blah. Just to appease the fans of this team. Ring fence Ibrox, I will rephrase that “buy season books again please”
They are sinking again and no one can throw them enough buoys to keep them afloat.
Blame blame who next for the blame, Mr Lawell is a certain candidate (as the fans forum revealed the hatred towards him). The day this drowned/deceased entity plays Mr Lawell’s club will be a real black day. I blame the SFA for all of this. I blame Mr Ogilivie most of all for he was a major deck hand of the Govan ship. Administration approaches again and the SFA just sit there and do nothing. If administration occurs what next for SFA? Are they unsinkable??
bryce9a says: (94)
December 5, 2013 at 10:29 am
Bryce you are obviously bright, but, the problem with your analysis is simple, where is the money going to come from to enable Rangers to be a perennial pat of the “top two”?
bryce9a says:
December 5, 2013 at 10:29 am
Indeed, the absence of a competitive Rangers – by ensuring the UEFA windfalls only ever go to one team’s bank account rather than spread between two – if anything serves to entrench the financial gulf between Celtic and the non-Old firm sides.
——
That’s very true. However, it makes little difference to the rest of us whether such windfalls go to one club or, in the past, two.
If there’s only one, currently Celtic, then more of the rest of us will get a sniff at the leftovers rather than all the UEFA cash being hoovered up by the ugly sisters.
On a slightly different note, there is a lot of talk on here about Rangers spending so much cash that they’re certain to go out of business soon. Have we really learned so little over the last couple of years? It’s not gonna happen.
Angus
…… “It’s not gonna happen”.
You are wrong but right.
There will almost certainly be a need for an end of business event.
Or an asset swap between a holding and an operating company to cancel out debt.
But the Sevco (Second Rangers) if it survives) or Third Rangers if indeed that is the path the Spivs mandate will simply regenerate very soon to be Rangers.
So if the aspirants like Spartans or Cove or East Kilbride want a place in the SPFL they will have to win their way through.
The powers that be will ensure that whatever hurdles get in the way over the next few months – there will always be a place for the club supported by most employees of the SFA and SPFL, Referees Association, Club Chairmen*, Journalists etc.
*(sometimes as a second club when their own team is not playing, sometimes not)
manandboy says: (345)
December 5, 2013 at 8:12 am
CO will be in post for the next two years.
This is a cast iron guarantee for Sevco for that period.
In that time, they can do anything they want
and it will get SFA backing.
My guess is what Sevco wants
is to win the Scottish Cup
and then weasel their way into Europe next year.
This should not be too difficult
with the Referees and the SFA
able to offer them unlimited assistance.
Alternatively, the game could go straight.
Take your pick.
=================================
UEFA refused Derry entry to UEFA competition and Derry had backing of their FA.
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/17116759
They were refused because they fell foul of Article 12 of UEFA FFP whose intent is to protect the integrity of the competition by preventing Clubs who have experienced insolvency or used it to ditch debt, from playing in Europe until at least 3 years have passed to allow what has emerged from the ashes to prove itself as a sustainable risk free participant.
In any case the UEFA FFP Article that allows clubs without a licence to the UEFA required standard i.e. Art 15 only allows clubs without one to APPLY for consideration.
At that point factors like their short history (and to UEFA they could only view it as short or totally undermine the intent of Article 12) and financial situation would be taken into account and whilst break even requirements are set aside for a club applying under Art 15 (just as well with a 92% TOTAL wage to turnover ratio) nevertheless the precarious financial position (as forecast) would make UEFA wary.
With CO at the helm anything is possible but I think he will be gone by the summer as his role in Rangers ebt journey, his silence on the matter and the damage he has done to Rangers and our game through serious misjudgements is more fully appreciated.
Bryce
Thanks for the explanation on how the top 2 divied the Euro cash pot between the rest of Scottish Football to benefit ,explains why RFC got into so much debt,I think these clubs should have given this cash back to save RFC from being LIQUIDATED,selfish buggers all take and no give ,no wonder the old RFC fans are so upset with the rest of Scottish Football,now lets have a look back at those figures again.
scapaflow says: (1246)
December 5, 2013 at 10:41 am
Bryce you are obviously bright, but, the problem with your analysis is simple, where is the money going to come from to enable Rangers to be a perennial pat of the “top two”?
Rangers’ massive following and the income they provide will, as long as the club is being properly run and spivs have been rooted out, always form a sufficient grounding to launch a competitive challenge within the top league of Scottish football. Has been like that for 100 years and – with the proviso of responsible ownership – that will remain the case.
Remember, 34 of the 38 games every league season are not against Celtic, so merely assembling a team who can overcome the rest on a consistent basis will be enough to make for a title race worthy of the name.
davythelotion says: (258)
December 4, 2013 at 11:11 pm
Poll: ‘Would you say sex is better or worse with the occasional inexplicable rash and embarrassing visit to your GP?’
======================================
Davy, this is way OT but I really couldn’t let this pass. Without being too personal is this where the ‘lotion’ bit of your ‘handle’ comes from? 🙂
Scottish Football needs a very strong lotion.
Reilly1926 says: (203)
December 5, 2013 at 9:08 am
It was with disbelieve and more than some amusement that I read this just posted on Twitter;
http://www.petitionbuzz.com/petitions/glasgowrangersfans
As someone quite eloquently said the other day “Different turd but the same flies”
===========================
You know, I’m not totally sure all of the signatures are genuine…. (see below)
Scottish Football needs a strong Dunfermline.
Some of the signatures :
Peter Lawwell
Nuck L. Dragger
Bring back ra orange taps
Rev Ian Paisley
No Huns at East End
sevco zombie
Jim Leishman
Clone Rangers
Rangers Died – Dunfermline Survived
All Pars Fans
Jim Jefferies
Ian Black, fud
Chic Young
New Turd Same Flies
Turnbull Hutton
Tedi Fivestars
No mention of liquidation? Hahahahahahah
Andrew Dickson
Et al….
Madbhoy24941 says: (333)
December 5, 2013 at 9:43 am
bawsbustedanathat says: (119)
December 5, 2013 at 8:26 am
First time I’ve posted on TSFM since RTC days
——————————————————–
Noticed when I read it back….Couldn’t be ersed changing it….
Madbhoy24941 says: (333)
December 5, 2013 at 9:43 am
5 12 Rate This
bawsbustedanathat says: (119)
December 5, 2013 at 8:26 am
First time I’ve posted on TSFM since RTC days.
—————————–
TSFM was not around in the RTC days and is not a continuation of RTC, they are 2 different forums with clearly different identities…. maybe this Rangers thing is affecting you that much that you now see 2 different entities as the same thing 😀
Oh, after writing that I had a thought, maybe they were both running alongside each other right at the start but hey, why waste a good joke….
=============================================================
actually, the fact that RTC and TSFM had a slight overlap makes your “joke” all the more apt – as we all know RFC PLC held the SPL share at the same time as the Sevco incarnation was granted conditional SFA membership and played Brechin
bryce9a says: (95)
December 5, 2013 at 11:22 am
Remember, 34 of the 38 games every league season are not against Celtic, so merely assembling a team who can overcome the rest on a consistent basis will be enough to make for a title race worthy of the name.
———————————————
The same argument applies to Aberdeen, Dundee United et al in the absence of Rangers.
bawsbustedanathat says: (120)
December 5, 2013 at 11:44 am
Madbhoy24941 says: (333)
December 5, 2013 at 9:43 am
bawsbustedanathat says: (119)
December 5, 2013 at 8:26 am
First time I’ve posted on TSFM since RTC days
——————————————————–
Noticed when I read it back….Couldn’t be ersed changing it….
——————–
No worries, the joke didn’t seem to go down too well anyway. Welcome back!
bryce9a says: (95)
December 5, 2013 at 11:22 am
Don’t know why the thumbs down.
You are correct that with the potential income for filling Ibrox each week the club should have enough money to put a team on the park that would be of a standard one would think could compete well against Premiership sides and possibly mount some form of a challenge to Celtic.
However there is a long long journey to get to that point.
Daly & McCulloch could be away by the time a team got back to the Premiership.
Wallace could even be away in the new year if the price is right.
Any good youngsters could be offski if an deal is offered from down south.
Ally’s big name expensive (or was that panicked) signing Templeton can’t even get in the team.
A motivated team of youngsters playing one division up and down to 10 men, showed the current T’Rangers team ain’t no great shakes at the weekend.
To get through next season safely they probably need a few other players and then even more if the Premiership is attained.
Looking at the previous books the basic running costs down Govan way have always been around £14m per annum. Even with increase prices it would only take one or two duff McCoist signings to tip the boat once again.
To get close to Celtic in a top two race is not impossible, it is just going to take a long long time, patience and very careful management.
Something that has not been seen at Ibrox for a considerable period of time and there is no sign of that changing any time soon, even if they manage to push on through the latest financial squeeze they have created.
Also in case you have forgotten history doesn’t bode well for either of Glasgow’s big two in terms of crowd numbers when they ain’t winning diddly squat
Bryce as Scapa says if and when this new Rangers gets to the top where is the money going to come from that guarantees they will be able to make that challenge. There is an automatic assumption that if you make it you will be challenging Celtic when the truth is you wont have the money unless there is some mug out there with wads of cash to burn and that person hasn’t turned up to date. My hope is that by the time a new Rangers makes it to the top the other teams will have raised their game and retained their players. You and your new team with the Pyrite Stars will not be able to buy success like the old Rangers, IMHO
bryce9a says: (95)
December 5, 2013 at 10:29 am
======================
Indeed, the absence of a competitive Rangers…..
You missed out the word ‘permanent’.
The team that previously used the name Rangers was unable to be competitive without borrowing more than they could afford to pay back.
The team that previously used the name Rangers was unable to be competitive without ignoring the rules on player registrations.
The team that previously used the name Rangers was unable to be competitive without non payment of taxes.
The team that previously used the name Rangers was only able to fulfil the fixtures in its last season by withholding taxes.
and on and on and on until they entered liquidation. They died and the autopsy is underway.
Competitive Rangers? ahem!
bryce9a says: (95)
December 5, 2013 at 11:22 am
“Has been like that for 100 years and – with the proviso of responsible ownership – that will remain the case.”
===========================================================================
It WAS like that for many years but is no longer the case, responsible ownership seems to be as far away today as ever. The “massive following” generated £19m of revenue in 13 months, good by Scottish standards but costs were approx £38m.
They need money to burn to get back to challenging for the Premier League and it is not forthcoming from the saviours who pop up as if on a conveyor belt, and no commercial bank will touch them.
Just got to win 34 matches per season to be competitive, seems easy enough, or does it. Will that level of performance not require tens of millions investment in players and wages, as previously noted no one is going to provide the funds and the money is running out at present even without major investment in the team.
bryce9a says: (95)
December 5, 2013 at 9:56 am
10 29 Rate This
I am not a Celtic who is happy with a one horse race, I want competition.
I would love it if Aberdeen or Inverness kept the race going till the final day.
I am also not a Celtic fan who wishes for the return of Rangers (let’s gloss over the fact it’s pretty much impossible)
I am a Celtic fan who wants the governing body to stick to the rules. To treat everyone equally. To look after every club, not just one.
I expect C.O. to apologise to Gretna, Airdrie and even Third Lanark and invite them all back into the league. No need to pay your debts, don’t worry yourself.
That’s the way everyone get’s treated now surely?
McCaig`s Tower says: (13)
December 4, 2013 at 1:55 pm
I have only just arrived at this post and it triggered a thought.
It may well have been subsequently addressed so apologies if that is the case.
I am thinking that the timing of any insolvency event here is crucial, whether the punishment be 15, 25 or a percentage of the previous season’s total.
This timing issue will determine whether or not that reduction comes off of this season’s total, but having amassed enough points to still win promotion, as to make no difference.
IF however, the timing dictates that the points deduction incurs a negative start point for the new clubs first season in the second tier (a la Hearts this season), that will put a completely different slant on next seasons efforts to win that particular league.
Am I being cynical here in assuming TRFC/RIFC and their “friends” at Hampden may be looking to engineer any potential points reduction to meet with what is best for the Ibrox club?
It is clear that with better sides to compete against in the second tier, TRFC will find it more difficult to win that league. Starting on minus 15, 25 or however many points will make that particular task much more difficult.
Is there a “date” in the close season when a line is drawn in the sand declaring last season is over and the new one has begun?
May I humbly suggest that this is monitored very closely?
briggsbhoy says: (764)
December 5, 2013 at 12:33 pm
Bryce as Scapa says if and when this new Rangers gets to the top where is the money going to come from that guarantees they will be able to make that challenge.
I answered your question, above.
wottpi says: (1303)
December 5, 2013 at 12:15 pm
Don’t know why the thumbs down…
Thanks. Funnily enough I don’t for a second believe each and every “thumbs down” corresponds to a reasoned judgement of the points I have made, although the more the merrier as at least it shows my comment has been read (I presume I’m not being too generous in making the latter claim.)
As for the rest of your post, you are right that Rangers are not where we need to be right now in terms of off-the-field and a sensible approach to balancing the books is essential. Celtic provide a model of how we need to go about our business in future – identifying and nurturing young talent from home and abroad through good coaching and scouting systems that underlie the whole football operation. We have the resources to make one hell of a better fist of it than we have done in the past and with the right management in the boardroom (my issues with McCoist et al are another thing, but one at a time) we have a very bright future.
The support remains strong and has a fierce appetite for a return to success. It’s merely up to the custodians of the club to ensure that process is on-going and sustainable.
Edit: I still see a couple of responses from other posters, Celtic fans, saying along the lines of…
“I want a competitive league with Aberdeen/Inverness etc.. challenging for the title”.
The notion such a thing could happen, whether these clubs live within their means or not, just beggars belief from where I am standing.
bryce9a says: (96)
December 5, 2013 at 12:51 pm
briggsbhoy says: (764)
December 5, 2013 at 12:33 pm
Bryce as Scapa says if and when this new Rangers gets to the top where is the money going to come from that guarantees they will be able to make that challenge.
I answered your question, above.
wottpi says: (1303)
December 5, 2013 at 12:15 pm
Don’t know why the thumbs down…
Thanks. Funnily enough I don’t for a second believe each and every “thumbs down” corresponds to a reasoned judgement of the points I have made, although the more the merrier and as at least it shows my comment has been read (I presume I’m not being too generous in making the latter claim.)
Celtic provide a model of how we need to go about our business in future – identifying and nurturing young talent from home and abroad through good coaching and scouting systems that underlie the whole football operation. We have the resources to make one hell of a better fist of it than we have done in the past and with the right management in the boardroom (my issues with McCoist et al are another thing, but one at a time) we have a very bright future.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
In other news – Glasgow Rangers FC have completely scrapped their entire scouting system due to their financial meltdown (the first meltdown that is not the current one) and claims by Brycie Bhoy on TSFM that Sevco will identify and nurture talent at home and abroad sounds suspiciously like pie suppers in the sky thinking.
Mark Guidi last night declared that the members of the existing board should come clean as to whether Green or/and White are still involved.
Do you think he realises the implications of this if they are?
Or is he just thick….
Auldheid says: (1076) December 5, 2013 at 11:18 am
UEFA refused Derry entry to UEFA competition and Derry had backing of their FA.
. . . I think he (CO) will be gone by the summer as his role in Rangers ebt journey, his silence on the matter and the damage he has done to Rangers and our game through serious misjudgements is more fully appreciated.
_________________________________________________________________________________________
Auldheid
Nothing would please me more than if your projection were to prove correct.
However
Wrt Derry. Is Derry as close to their FA as Sevco is to the SFA ?
After all, there’s backing and there’s SFA Sevco backing!
Ogilvie gone by summer ?
Ebt or no ebt, his position looks impregnable.
Keep in mind that what we have here
is a supremacist political animal fighting for its life.
john clarke says: (1412)
December 4, 2013 at 10:28 pm
John
I understand the notion that in any potential clash against Rangers International, Celtic fans should boycott the match.
However I don’t think that’s a realistic proposition at all.
As stated in an earlier post, the fans of TRIFC are the same as the old Rangers. I can guarantee you that whether the match took place at Celtic Park or Ibrox, it would be a certain sell- out.
Just look at the number of supporters that turned up from each side to the youth game at Firhill last year. 6,000 tickets went on sale and 6,000 punters turned up.
It’s a fact that Celtic will play a side purporting to be Rangers at one stage another. Rivalry amongst the fans will continue, whether we like it or not (and don’t we spend half our lives ripping them on blogs and social media? I know I do).
Better to meet soon and tank them in my opinion- even if it’s only once.
NB I’d be perfectly happy if Dunfermline did knock them out of the cup- I’d be happy if anyone did- so I have no disagreements with you there.
Anyway- let’s leave it there as the media are already ramping up the prospect of a potential encounter. I have no desire to add to that- my only desire is to humiliate their fans on the park, if we are given the opportunity to do so.
Now, what about these Laxey fella’s…
bawsbustedanathat says: (121)
December 5, 2013 at 1:01 pm
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
As regards his thickness level he is probably on a par with BFDJ. Both of them get seriously frustrated and aggressive when one of the SSB callers ties them in knots.
Top Tip for SSB wind up merchants – Guidi is so up himself he absolutely hates to be interrupted when dispensing his words of wisdom.
GeronimosCadillac says: (112)
December 5, 2013 at 12:59 pm
1 0 Rate This
————
Even the very Ibrox-centric SSB mentioned (in bewildered tones) the dismantled scouting system the other night.
You’d almost think Murray Park wasn’t in any future plans for nurturing youth talent.
Danish Pastry says: (1762)
December 5, 2013 at 1:07 pm
GeronimosCadillac says: (112)
December 5, 2013 at 12:59 pm
1 0 Rate This
————
Even the very Ibrox-centric SSB mentioned (in bewildered tones) the dismantled scouting system the other night.
You’d almost think Murray Park wasn’t in any future plans for nurturing youth talent.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
One could also come round to thinking it wasn’t in past plans either
Bryce,
You had the perfect opportunity to bring through youth players both this and last season. but didn’t grasp the nettle. Rangers are a club that demands success no matter what shape or form and no time will be given for any talent to come through in the volumes that you need to become competitive whilst remaining solvent. Sorry, but it’s just not in your DNA. Most clubs would have been embarrassed to win the 4th tier title with the assets they had at their disposal. Not RFC. You treated it as if it was the Champions League with a presentation ceremony that was mind boggling in the extreme. I shudder to think of what this years celebrations will look like.
So, in a nutshell, without a sugar daddy you’re a busted flush of a club. No trophies = fewer fans = poorer players = no trophies = even fewer fans = armageddon (for RFC that is – the rest of us will continue on our merry way) Even the MSM will at some time tire of publishing Jack’s work and we can then all breathe a sigh of relief.
bryce9a says: (96)
December 5, 2013 at 12:51 pm
“The support remains strong and has a fierce appetite for a return to success.”
________________________________________
‘Fierce’ is not a good word to choose when describing your club’s support, their ‘fierceness’ is not admirable.
That sentence is very reminiscent of Charles Green’s, and also his PR team’s, proclamations, suggesting that having an appetite for success is all TRFC requires to achieve said success. It is not. Your fellow supporters demand success, and that is what got your original club into the mire in the first place. If TRFC has been prepared to start slowly, with a side put together with an eye to a budget, but still capable of winning the 3rd Division, then they might have shown a small profit, due to the large crowds you seem to expect, then strengthen using that profit for their tilt at the second, you would, all going your way, move into the first division/championship in reasonable shape with the prospect of an IPO ahead to ensure success in that league and leave money to strengthen further on your potentially more profitable return to the top tier. Once there, with no debt and all the season ticket money still in the club’s account, you could truly reap the benefit of 40,000+ crowds. Whether or not this would have produced the success to sate your ‘fierce appetite’ we will never know because Green was allowed to waste over £20m, helped by McCoist and 40,000 fierce appetites.
Instead of posting these ‘it’ll work coz we’re Rangers’ pipe dreams why don’t you try doing what Paul Murray and the rest of his mates have failed to do, and that’s to put together a business plan that’ll achieve what you want without busting the bank again?
Afternoon,
I confess to watching the Falkirk game at the weekend and here is my take on the opposition and their ability to mount a challenge in the SPL.
First of all caveats have to be made that the game was on a plastic pitch , however it did not seen to overly concern the away team.
Rangers appeared physically stronger than Falkirk and they have robust pros in their ranks , mainly through the middle of the team, for example, Bell, McCollough, Moshni, Black, Law, and Daley. I thought that Rangers would simply chase the legs off Falkirk and score late in the game …….
To me the game seemed devoid of any real subtle tactics from Rangers. It boiled down to 2 plays, firstly launch the ball to Daly who would knock it down to Clark who was virtually anonymous the whole game , and secondly Wallace playing a one-two with the left winger / midfielder who was anonymous. Wallace was allowed to run freely past the Falkirk right back and therefore looked good but ultimately created very little.
In general, looked as though it was a high out ball or a fast break down the left flank with an overlapping fullback , with very little football being played elsewhere.
Defensively they have a decent keeper in Bell and left back in Wallace, the 2 centre halves will be brutally exposed by a lack of pace when against physically stronger opposition, and the right back looked poor. Indeed, the right side of the Rangers team looked very poor ……..
Midfield, Law and Black formed a partnership which looked physically strong against the younger and thinner Falkirk lads and came onto a game in the second half, albeit with very little creative. The wide Rangers men were peripheral to the action ……
Daly is just a big lump and Clark was largely posted missing.
On balance , the current Rangers team will, in my view, be good enough to win the SPL Championship but they would need to factor in some good fortune in avoiding injuries to their more physical players , McCuollogh, Daly, and Black. All these guys are at the end of their careers and will have lost a good yard by the time the SPL comes around.
Defensively, you would be mad not to attack Rangers down their right flank and against any decent opposition the centre halves would be beaten for pace, they are not really a solid pairing, therefore replacements will be sought in that area. Perhaps , the SMSM story about Gavin Gunning interesting Celtic ( oh really , stop laughing at the back) has been planted as guess what he is interesting Rangers, anyway 2 new centre halves will be needed , Gunning and Wilson, perhaps.
Midfield, wide areas room for improvement and they will look to pick up some SPL players on freedom of contract, up front Daly will need to be replacement, he turns 31 in January , so he will be heading towards the veteran stage and would not be able to carry the team for the whole season. I can see Rangers tempting some of the big Inverness lads and possibly Billy McKay down for a game.
So in short, they will want to hit the SPL running and therefore next season by my estimation will need between 5 to 6 new players to walk straight into the first team. All the players must be up and running from day 1, therefore they will be drawn from the ranks of the current SPL teams.
Without this infux of players, I would guess that the current team boosted by the odd youth coming through would win the Championship with a few embarrassing results along the way and based solely on their home form (when in the SPL) would just make the top 6.
With the new players , it would be a much closer fight between Rangers, Aberdeen , Inverness, Motherwell and Dundee Utd for second place. The problem Rangers will have is placing tremendous expectations on ordinary players , so it is a gamble where they will finish-up.
Current and previous regimes at Ibrox will go to extraordinary lengths to avoid the gamble, so I am expecting more money to be chucked down the black-hole to invest in more and better players to make second a sure thing………….
Bottom line, the current team is not good enough for a top 2 SPL position and more than 1/2 a team is required to get them comfortably into the top 6. More money required for wages.
I am amazed that Rangers has not arranged any friendlies ( May be there are some closed door games) so they can assess themselves against higher standard opposition, particularly for some of the younger and foreign imports to see if they can make the step up. On the other hand, this may involve several reversals making the bears more focal about the requirement for fresh talent.
bryce9a says: (96)
December 5, 2013 at 12:51 pm
Bryce, I’ve always said the whole T’Rangers thing is touch and go and that your scenario is achievable if the financials work out.
If I recall Steerpike came on here with a similar view that it would be all right on the night and the financials are nothing to worry about.
I can’t say that I would be so certain the books are in a good shape given the shennanigns of the last year or so.
My question is, given the £14m losses of the RIFC and that the TRFC is in debt of at least £16m to the parent company, how is that mess going to be sorted out and by whom? Yes we know that 38k fans can generate income but a lot of that is currently going straight out the door as soon as it comes in.
On the face of it another £20m is going to be needed just to get back on the straight and narrow.
Dave King reckons tens of millions need to be thrown at the club if they are serious about challenging Celtic.
Who do you think is up to the job? Current board or requisitoners? Who is on your dream team to deliver the future you predict?
Fire away with your thoughts on execs, directors, manager, coaching staff and players.
There is still no credible pathway from the present spivcrash to a business that can break even.There is no prospect of significant cash to fund the project; no prospect of a debt facility; no prospect of being able to run the club within its income; no prospect of anyone even suggesting same; no prospect of Ibrox hordes understanding need for same; no prospect of them accepting same.
The SFA and their rule breaking cadre of ex Bears and wannabe Bears and weasel lickspittles; the SMSM,and the judges and political elites who have managed to float the corpse in badly painted drawers this far have no ressurection plans. Rangers are dead. Rangers ( invented) are dying; no-one is prepared to fund Rangers 3.
The rest is wishful thinking on Bryce and the cohorts’ parts and unnecessary fearmongering for the rest of us. Cash is king. The Rangers will have no cash by February at the latest, and no means to raise any. It will all be over soon.
Ogilvie will try; Salmond will try, even the learned judges will try – but when the money runs out the games up!
Not long now!
bryce9a says: (96)
December 5, 2013 at 12:51 pm
Your answer I’m afraid is a poor one. Super Ally is admitting that the scouting system is hopeless, therefore cash is required and to assume that you will hump everybody else other than Celtic with little investment is arrogance. Who is going to give Rangers a credit line for a pre season in Europe ? cash up front me thinks, it wont be Thomas Cook anyway as Oldco stuffed them for about £250k last time.
Whullie says: (76)
December 5, 2013 at 12:43 pm
McCaig`s Tower says: (13)
December 4, 2013 at 1:55 pm
Am I being cynical here in assuming TRFC/RIFC and their “friends” at Hampden may be looking to engineer any potential points reduction to meet with what is best for the Ibrox club?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Not at all and a bloody good point you raise too.
It is not being cynical when you are up against cynical as in “What are the rules?”
“How can we use/circumvent them/”
Good and interesting post, EKBhoy – thanks for that.
—
Whullie says:
December 5, 2013 at 12:43 pm
Is there a “date” in the close season when a line is drawn in the sand declaring last season is over and the new one has begun?
——
I believe the end of the season is taken as being the day of the Scottish Cup Final, after which normal competitive football-playing business ceases.
The new season doesn’t start til the first day of matches, but I’m not sure how the close season fits into that for purposes of Admin, etc.
EKBhoy says: (148)
December 5, 2013 at 1:34 pm
You got in there with an analysis of the team I am hoping Bryce will give us.
The problem with your scenario for T’Rangers is that they be looking for the experienced cheaper out of contract in the mould of players Barry Robson and Willo Flood to join their ranks. That gives you a solid pro but also one who can have an off day just when the opposition’s bright young thing plays a stormer resulting in a 0-1 defeat.
Can’t see it being easy, even if a bit of cash is splashed, because the quality will just not be what the Bears expect.
I note Bryce has sent a couple of contentious postings today and approx. 20 of our brethren have rushed to take issue.
When will you learn to ignore him? By all means give TDs, but starve him of the oxygen of replies, which is all his posts seek.
Almost a year on from the big fund raising.
The money invested by the institutional shareholders last December seems to have been used for reasons other than those specified in the prospectus.
Frittered might even be a suitable adjective.
Even with tax benefits it will not be easy to show a profit on the deal.
And everyone in the city wants to show growth in fact it is demanded.
I’ve done the rounds of investors before for a wee PLC and it could be a rough ride especially if they were unhappy with the current financial performance and even worse if they saw the future returns diminishing.
Institutional money is all accountable and is not generally soft.
Especially after one brazen mugging.
The market will not be a soft option twice
Angus1983 says: (1277)
December 5, 2013 at 1:53 pm
If you recall there was all this at the end of last season as Hearts Adminstration got closer.
If they had gone into Admin they would have been docked points, cut the playing staff etc and could have gone down if unable to beat Dundee’s 30 point total.
As it was they didn’t go into Admin until June therefore started this season with minus 15.
If T’Rangers are going to go into admin then it would be better to do so towards the end of the season when, on current form, they have a points cushion to gain automatic promotion or a play-off spot.
Starting the championship at minus 15 with all the high earners kicked out the door by a ‘proper administrator’ isn’t where I would want to be.
Before the end of season admin would of course be about the time when the current FD reckons they will be down to the last biscuit in the cookie jar.
manandboy says: (346)
December 5, 2013 at 1:05 pm
Auldheid says: (1076) December 5, 2013 at 11:18 am
UEFA refused Derry entry to UEFA competition and Derry had backing of their FA.
. . . I think he (CO) will be gone by the summer as his role in Rangers ebt journey, his silence on the matter and the damage he has done to Rangers and our game through serious misjudgements is more fully appreciated.
_________________________________________________________________________________________
Auldheid
Nothing would please me more than if your projection were to prove correct.
However
Wrt Derry. Is Derry as close to their FA as Sevco is to the SFA ?
After all, there’s backing and there’s SFA Sevco backing!
Ogilvie gone by summer ?
Ebt or no ebt, his position looks impregnable.
Keep in mind that what we have here
is a supremacist political animal fighting for its life.
—————————————–
Aye but if we take the attitude the game is lost, as you appear to have adopted and happy to be corrected, then the game is lost and that really pisses me off.
I have had some enquiries about the CO material but mainly from Celtic supporters who, like me feel we have a Celtic axe to grind as the most immediate (but I stress not only) victim of Rangers behaviour as well as a good of Scottish football one.
When TSFM previously tried last year to engage with other supporters trusts on SFA governance we got one enquiry of interest from ICT along with the CST who were very helpful in promoting Resolution 12 this year.
The problem is if the case is seen as coming with a green hue it just looks like Celtic putting the boot in but other clubs do not appear willing or able to engage and in that respect you have foundation for your argument.
But God loves a trier and my wife says I’m very trying.
GeronimosCadillac says: (114)
December 5, 2013 at 1:11 pm
6 0 Rate This
One could also come round to thinking it wasn’t in past plans either
———–
Indeed.
smartie1947 says: (165)
December 5, 2013 at 1:57 pm
5 0 Rate This
When will you learn to ignore him?
———–
Just a matter of mentally pressing the ‘ignore’ button 🙂
manandboy says: (346)
December 5, 2013 at 1:05 pm
As an example of how trying I am I sent this to Panorama today. Imagine if thousands were to start asking questions of the SPFL/BBC/Ch4/ etc etc. Surely somebody will bite?
——
Did Campbell Ogilvie, President of the SFA prejudice the Lord Nimmo Smith Commission?
Your correspondent Mark Daly should be able to give a view on this subject although it might be better if a London journalist pursued it for reasons Mark will know only too well.
The wider UK interest is football evading tax and the consequences of evading with the help of a national association President.
The Lord Nimmo Smith Commission was doomed to arrive at an incorrect judgement because of key information withheld by Ranger’s administrators Duff and Phelps (for which LNS found them guilty).
This evasion becomes more telling because although it hid the true nature of the early irregular ebts from SPL lawyers the consequences of that would have been negated had a key witness provided clarification to Lord Nimmo Smith in his testimony.
The key witness was Campbell Ogilvie, current SFA President, who is the person who embarked Rangers on their disastrous ebt journey in 1999 and by his silence in 2012 has misled the Scottish footballing public, put the SPFL in an invidious position by not correcting LNS and all but destroyed the level of trust required to get football in Scotland back on to fair ground.
The attached documents tell the story. Apologies for the length but it includes much of LNS testimony, it has been looked at by a number of folk from various professional backgrounds who think it stands up and will surface in the coming months.
An interview with Mr Ogilvie investigating his history of ebt usage, silence on the matter and the impact of that silence will either clear him or require his resignation.
Either way Scottish football will benefit.
tilhotdogsbark says: (20)
December 4, 2013 at 8:59 pm
69 0 i
Rate This
BartinMain says: (104)
December 4, 2013 at 7:35 pm
I understand the sentiment behind your post BM, but as a Celtic fan I have absolutely no desire for my club to be pitted against Sevco this season.
I can’t for the life of me see any possible benefit for Celtic in meeting this club in the near future. There would be hype way beyond anything we have witnessed in the past and an integral part of media frenzy would be to highlight how much this “fixture has been missed”. I can however see a whole host of other more damaging downsides.
Also with the Honest Mistake brigade still there, I would be less confident than your good self of the result favouring the best team.
——————————————-
Without even considering the Honest Mistake Brigade factor (multiple references in the Scottish media to 2010 ref strike but NOTHING about Bougherra manhandling a referee twice with impunity), Celtic took two games to beat Arbroath by a single goal last season and lost to Morton this season, so there would be no guarantee of a win never mind a “thrashing” as eagerly expected in some quarters. The notion that an overwhelming Celtic victory over Sevco would be inevitable is simply a combination of arrogance and ignorance.
rougvielovesthejungle says: (70)
December 5, 2013 at 8:17 am
Exiled Celt says: (834)
December 5, 2013 at 7:54 am
Amusing to see Stockbridge flanked by his two hired hands in the directors box!
*******************
Also amusing that my post has been deleted by the MODS!
Showing the SFA Director of Communications Mr Daryl Broadfoot Esq – the very same Director of Communications who refuses to communicate with fans via Twitter – found time in his busy schedule to enjoy the hospitality to watch a lower league fixture. Would be good to see how many lower league fixtures the SFA brass attend outside of Glasgow, shall we say! My guess is for Elgin v East Stirling, there will be empty seats…………and not much to communicate. Plus, would be a good idea for the SFA brass to sit where the rest of us are sometimes.
But since my post was deleted by MODS, I am assuming the topic of SFA Director of communications is considered OT for the blog………….
smartie1947 says: (165)
December 5, 2013 at 1:57 pm
I note Bryce has sent a couple of contentious postings today and approx. 20 of our brethren have rushed to take issue.
When will you learn to ignore him? By all means give TDs, but starve him of the oxygen of replies, which is all his posts seek.
Dearie me. What is it exactly that you find so threatening about what I am posting that it needs “shutdown” or “starved of oxygen”?
The working definition of “troll” employed by some folk on here seems only to suggest their own blunt ignorance, or pure disregard, for the guidelines on which – according to the FAQ – this site is based.
Whullie says: (76)
December 5, 2013 at 12:43 pm
Is there a “date” in the close season when a line is drawn in the sand declaring last season is over and the new one has begun?
————————————————————
Rule A4
“Season means the period of the year commencing on the date of the first League Match in a Season and ending on the date of the last League Match in the same Season or otherwise as determined by the Board and which excludes the Close Season”;
So the season runs from the first game until the last game. Conceivably there is scope for postponements to result in a late finish. Of course, as suggested above, there is now a moral hazard here, enabling clubs to trigger an Insolvency Event to suit them in terms of points deduction. This was not necessary possible under the SFL rules.
On that last point, I note the SPFL rules refers to the SFL rules, the inference being that they are different. This backs up my contention from yesterday that should, heaven forbid, Dunfermline suffer an Insolvency Event next season, any points deduction would be the first in terms of the SPFL rules.
Smartie 1947 @1-57pm
You know Smartie I had written a long winded reply agreeing with your sentiments. But Lord Billy Austin has saved me the trouble.
If not posted already / takes 2 minutes
============================
Tony McKelvie @TonyMcKelvie 1h
#APennyForYourThoughts 920 Random Thoughts re Scots Law in 31 months. Remarkable output and influence. Give £9.20 via http://www.bhf.org.uk/get-involved/donate/in-memory.aspx …
Tony McKelvie @TonyMcKelvie 1h
#APennyForYourThoughts A fitting tribute to Paul McConville would be a penny for each of his Random Thoughts blogs. That’s £9.20 to @TheBHF
Tony McKelvie @TonyMcKelvie 2h
Paul’s family kindly ask, if you wish to send a floral tribute, to instead make a donation to @TheBHF via http://www.bhf.org.uk/get-involved/donate/in-memory.aspx
Auldheid says: (1079)
Am I being cynical here in assuming TRFC/RIFC and their “friends” at Hampden may be looking to engineer any potential points reduction to meet with what is best for the Ibrox club?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Not at all and a bloody good point you raise too.
It is not being cynical when you are up against cynical as in “What are the rules?”
“How can we use/circumvent them/
*************
Was this not exactly what happened with the Transfer embargo “punishment” that TRFC themselves requested as part of the 5 Way agreement due to the concern that the victory at CoS could actually result on a review of the punishment in a more serious punishment being assessed to fit the crime that RFC-NIL was found guilty of – “second only to match fixing” – by using tax money to pay players etc. However CG and his lawyers quickly agreed to take the penalty they took to CoS – outside of Sport against UEFA rules – with no punishment by SFA.
However, the 1 year embargo punishment turned out to be a nonsense – TRFC was allowed to sign up “trialists” months before the end of the embargo to the extent that the embargo was a nonsense.
The 1 year embargo was changed to be 2 transfer windows since we were told it was the same thing, instead of a 12 months ban on signing players. The summer transfer window of 2012 was not included – only Jan 2013 and summer 2013. Jan 2013 was not needed since they were miles ahead in Div 3 – and started signing Cammy Bell in March as a trialist – with Clark, Clark, Daly etc then following.
The end effect was no punishment at all.
If anyone believes that TRFC alone discovered the loophole and were not in cahoots with SFA over the signing of free agents prior to the embargo end date- then that person needs to seek medical help!
Auldheid says: (1078) December 5, 2013 at 2:06 pm
“Aye but if we take the attitude the game is lost, as you appear to have adopted and happy to be corrected, then the game is lost and that really pisses me off.”
_________________________________________________________________________________________
Auldheid, there is, on my part, no attitude that the game is lost.
What I do have is the memory of so many occasions since CW put RFC into Admin.,
when this blog has been filled with ‘ what should happen ‘ according to the rules & laws.
But it never did.
Sure, there have been a few exceptions, but for the most part
Sevco & Associates have got their way – and usually by breaking the rules.
What I am saying is that at all times, we on this blog,
should never underestimate the power of the Sevco/SFA alliance
nor put too much faith in legislation and in ‘what should happen’.
I used to try my mother’s patience on a near constant basis,
but in response, she never once said to me ‘God love you, son’.
So I have a doubt about God loving a trier.
My Da used to back horses, but had a talent for failing to spot the eventual winner.
His vain attempts to increase the family fortune
also drew a few uncomplimentary words from my mother.
So, no future in backing losers.
However, by studying form carefully, one is more able to distinguish
between the ones to bet on, and those to avoid.
That’s not the same as believing that all is lost.
One thing’s for sure, this ‘race’ is not 6 furlongs.
More like the Grand National – and then some !
Another point to the SFA/SFL changing rules – remember when TRFC were busy signing over 21’s by the bucketload causing us all to wonder if the SFL rule on no of players in squad over 21 had been understood?
By a huge coincidence the rule was changed when reconstruction happened
Who would have thought TRFC would have been so accurate in their “hunch” that this rule was being changed?
Re: The Herald’s “Scottish football is damaged by loss of Old Firm games, poll finds”
===================================================================
To follow up on a few observations here last night, The Herald itself states that this poll was ;
“…carried out exclusively by YouGov for HeraldScotland…”
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/spl-is-damaged-by-loss-of-old-firm-games-poll-finds.1386170587
=========================
Now, recently I believe that due to a freefalling circulation, The Herald was re-categorised from a National to a Regional newspaper.
A bit embarrassing, and would indicate that The Herald might not be exactly flush with cash… 🙄
So why would an editor commission a ‘proper’ polling company like YouGov to conduct an exclusive poll ?
And why would this poll be based on such a narrow subject such as ‘Old Firm’ games ?
Spiers asked Irvine recently on Twitter to confirm if he was on a bonus if the current Board remained in position after the AGM, to which Irvine did reply – in the negative.
So if anyone has a Twitter account & follows Spiers, could you please ask him this reasonable question ;
“Can you confirm if The Herald directly paid YouGov for their exclusive ‘Old Firm’ poll ?”
I have just watched the “highlights” of the Falkirk v Loch Govan Monster cup tie. Noticed two away players going into the crowd when celebrating the 2nd goal. According to post match reports neither were booked. Has this rule been changed, or is it a case of “different turd, same flies” and same smell…..
bryce9a says: (97) December 5, 2013 at 10:29 am 0 99 i
Indeed, the absence of a competitive Rangers – by ensuring the UEFA windfalls only ever go to one team’s bank account rather than spread between two – if anything serves to entrench the financial gulf between Celtic and the non-Old firm sides.
I love this mythical place where UEFA windfalls were “spread between the two” (Celtic & OldGers I assume). WhenTF was this ever the case? I don’t remember European money being “spread” to Celtic when OldGers EBT’d their way to 9IAR. When Celtic were regularly coming 3rd, 4th, 5th in the league having had to deal with “austerity” under McCann. Any team that came second the OldGers WON their share of that money as they had to play by the rules….
OldGers pocketed all that money and more in their bid to “entrench the financial gulf between them AND EVERY CLUB” – you do remember “tenners for fivers” and all that jizz, sorry jazz don’t you bryce9a?
jockybhoy
“For every fiver you spend, I will borrow a tenner – and never pay it back”
or something on those lines…….
On the subject of a potential clash between Celtic and The Rangers I personally think that if it were never to happen again ,the world,well Scotland, would be a better place.
Two simple reasons.
Domestic violence rates have dimished in the West of Scotland.(incidences soared on OF weekends)
Knife violence has diminished in the West of Scotland
Should anyone wish to challenge these assertions I am sure both the NHS and Police will be happy to provide the stats.
In addition,in purely football terms,it was a crap game.
Exiled Celt says: (838)
December 5, 2013 at 4:44 pm
1 0 Rate This
jockybhoy
“For every fiver you spend, I will borrow a tenner – and never pay it back”
or something on those lines…….
————–
That kind of borrowing is not unlike theft.
The reason the MSM and MH don’t want anyone (including TRFC fans) to understand the version of events disclosed by Hugh Adam on the voodoo economics implemented by Sir David Murray is pure and simple – self preservation!
The story being spun is that up until SDM was duped by CW, everything was ok until he was forced to hand over the club by HBOS/Lloyds for a pound. Up to that point RFC-NIL was, as per Paul Murray, doing everything expected of a club – they were winning things while getting the debt down. Moreover, the findings from LNS and FTT exonerated the club. Only problem is its not true.
Not only did TRFC ensure that they implemented a scheme whereby rules regarding FULL disclosure of ALL payments made to players was reneged on and hidden, but they also refused to set aside money in case the HRMC won the FTT. Since the WTC had been agreed to be settled by RFC-NIL, thus admitting their guilt, this was suddenly taken out of LNS scope for his verdict, making his ruling (which did not exonerate RFC-NIL!) incomplete at best.
So why is it so important to gloss over this and have everyone believe CW was the Bad Yin who did all this to an innocent party and ran away? That up to that point TRFC’s debt was manageable?
Answer is simple – because up to that point, everyone in Park Gardens was up to their neck in it.
No one either at Hampden wants anyone to look under the carpet at the following problems:
(1) Why despite Hugh Adams public statements, there was no SFA inquiry to ensure RFC-NIL had disclosed in full their payments to the players.
(2) Why they employed a man (CO) whose fingerprints/signatures were all over documents relating to the WTC regarding Craig Moore/Ronald De Boer and Torre Flo – a case that was ACCEPTED as guilty by RFC-NIL and their lawyers – and a settlement reached (forget for now the ineligibility for the UEFA license as that is another matter!)
(3) Why was the WTC excluded from LNS?
Perhaps the reason is that all these are connected – simply put, the SFA cannot be shown to have employed the very man who was at the helm of the WTC. Or that it was shown to be complicit in it – after all what other party other than RFC-NIL gained anything by having higher profile players coming to the country that could not be afforded? Only one really – the SFA – with this bigger profile, they were able to be on a bigger footing at UEFA meetings, getting CL finals to be held at Hampden and much more freebies for the SFA brass! Why bite the hand that feeds you?
Why did the SFA’s rules and regulations break down? What has been implemented since to ensure it never happens again?
As my old teacher used to say, if you don’t understand what the problem is, how can you fix it?
Or is it easier not to fix it since that would mean we can bury the problem of non registrations and the involvement of CO on all of this and move on?
Forget all the spinning emanating from MH regarding NewCo/OldCo, Scottish cup games and such.
The real story is in the misgoverning of our game, how it happened, why it happened and what is being done to fix it. This blog should be asking the questions the media does not ask. Let’s ask…..
Could I suggest a new word to define the particular trolls that get people wound up on TSFM?
How about Stroller? This is a Sevco troll who for avoidance of any doubt is an ex Ranger
Another poll
==========
According to Spiers, the ‘vast majority’ want a return of the ‘Old Firm’ fixtures, [dead clubs notwithstanding of course].
From the Rangers Media website, there is a poll showing results below.
Agreed, not a scientific / large sample, but an interesting snapshot all the same.
You would think that at least the ‘vast majority’ of TRFC fans would be wanting to meet Celtic ?
==================================================
Poll: Do you miss that fixture? (261 member(s) have cast votes)
Do you miss that fixture?
No (117 votes [44.83%])
Yes (144 votes [55.17%])
Guests cannot vote
No retort from the board today on the ‘constitution’ . Not like them to not have an opinion. 😀
Exiled Celt says: (839)
December 5, 2013 at 5:29 pm
Exiled those questions do get asked. Unfortunately, we are unlikely to get any answers as long as the clubs/companies see it as being in their interests to collude with the self preservation society at the top of Scottish Football.
Those interests need to be changed, and since the only thing that the clubs/companies really care about is revenues, as we saw last year, if enough customers indicate that there will be no season books renewed, no merchandise purchased until there is a clear out at Hampden, then and only then will we see the clubs/companies take action.
As Mr Nixon’s henchman put it:
“When you have them by the balls, their heart’s and minds will follow”
The sorry story of how an offshore hedge fund raped Coventry. Via @david_conn of the Guardian
http://t.co/crCRYYLODu
Hedge fund you say,
Offshore (isle of man) you say
scapaflow says: (1247)
December 5, 2013 at 6:50 pm
3 0 Rate This
“When you have them by the balls, their heart’s and minds will follow”
———
The favourite of a few of the presidents and their henchmen is that turn of phrase. Kissinger quoted it apparently, fawned on by the media but definitely one of the henchmen.
StevieBC says: (929)
December 5, 2013 at 5:59 pm
According to Spiers, the ‘vast majority’ want a return of the ‘Old Firm’ fixtures, [dead clubs notwithstanding of course].
===========================================
I seriously doubt whether Spiers will mix with enough Celtic fans to make such a sweeping statement. Those he does mix with will almost certainly not be a representative cross section of Celtic fans from all walks of life.
I am willing to bet my own experiences, and that of many other Celtic fans on here are far more accurate on this matter. Through work, socialising, and attending games I mix with a broad representation of Celtic fans, and I can count on one finger the amount that miss playing Rangers – yes, just one has said that. Others say it may have been different without the threats, intimidation, gerrymandering and a bit of humility and remorse thrown in, but we all know the score on that one.
andygraham.66 says: (76)
December 5, 2013 at 7:11 pm
2 0 Rate This
The sorry story of how an offshore hedge fund raped Coventry. Via @david_conn of the Guardian
http://t.co/crCRYYLODu
Hedge fund you say,
Offshore (isle of man) you say
——–
Fascinating article, and by the wonderfully-named reporter David Conn. Could do with that kind of reporting north of the border.
I thought the bit about pressuring the council was revealing. Maybe they just picked the wrong club and the wrong council? Still, the ploy might work for others closer to home.
upthehoops says: (702)
December 5, 2013 at 7:16 pm
StevieBC says: (929)
December 5, 2013 at 5:59 pm
According to Spiers, the ‘vast majority’ want a return of the ‘Old Firm’ fixtures, [dead clubs notwithstanding of course].
===========================================
I seriously doubt whether Spiers will mix with enough Celtic fans to make such a sweeping statement. Those he does mix with will almost certainly not be a representative cross section of Celtic fans from all walks of life.
I am willing to bet my own experiences, and that of many other Celtic fans on here are far more accurate on this matter. Through work, socialising, and attending games I mix with a broad representation of Celtic fans, and I can count on one finger the amount that miss playing Rangers – yes, just one has said that. Others say it may have been different without the threats, intimidation, gerrymandering and a bit of humility and remorse thrown in, but we all know the score on that one.
=================================
Absolutely !
So if the ‘vast majority’ of Celtic & TRFC fans do NOT miss the ‘Old Firm’ fixture – then who does ?!
This anecdotal evidence and TRFC poll would seem to support – as if we didn’t know already – that there is a heck of a lot more PR-driven bullsh*t being copied / pasted in the MSM just now.
Why ?
[And the SMSM has learned nothing in the last 2 years – and Spiers is supposed to be one of the ‘better’ sports journalists ? 🙄 ]
Apologies if this has been posted previously but I just noticed it elsewhere.
The funeral service for Paul McConville will take place on 13th December, next Friday, 9.30am, at St Ninians Church, Hamilton. All welcome.
scapaflow says: (1247)
December 5, 2013 at 6:50 pm
Exiled Celt says: (839)
December 5, 2013 at 5:29 pm
Exiled those questions do get asked. Unfortunately, we are unlikely to get any answers as long as the clubs/companies see it as being in their interests to collude with the self preservation society at the top of Scottish Football.
Those interests need to be changed, and since the only thing that the clubs/companies really care about is revenues, as we saw last year, if enough customers indicate that there will be no season books renewed, no merchandise purchased until there is a clear out at Hampden, then and only then will we see the clubs/companies take action.
As Mr Nixon’s henchman put it:
“When you have them by the balls, their heart’s and minds will follow”
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Problem is that most of our clubs don’t have the interest or see it as something they want to persue either – the answers need to come from the SFA and they are well bunkered down.
I asked much the same thing a few weeks back about why some of the fans groups who have a say in their clubs, like Motherwell could not ask the SFA these questions – and a poster replied (apologies but think it was ianagain) that it was brought up at Motherwell meeting but there was little appetite as its been spun as something the “obsessed Celtic fans” are only interested in.
However having a regulatory body that applies the rules fairly to everyone should interest everyone.
And the reason the WTC has been buried/ignored by MSM/SFA is very telling – because that is unfortunately their Achilles heel!
Jockybhoy rangers categorically did not “EBT their way to 9 in a row”. EBTs were not used until years after 9 in a row was won, fairly and squarely.
Danish Pastry says: (1767)
December 5, 2013 at 7:29 pm
andygraham.66 says: (76)
December 5, 2013 at 7:11 pm
The sorry story of how an offshore hedge fund raped Coventry. Via @david_conn of the Guardian
http://t.co/crCRYYLODu
Hedge fund you say, Offshore (isle of man) you say
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Fascinating article, and by the wonderfully-named reporter David Conn. Could do with that kind of reporting north of the border. I thought the bit about pressuring the council was revealing. Maybe they just picked the wrong club and the wrong council? Still, the ploy might work for others closer to home.
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Actually not IoM but: ‘Coventry City, formed in 1883 by workers at Singers’ cycle factory, are owned 130 years later by Sisu, a hedge fund specialising in “distressed debt”, using money from unnamed sources via the Cayman Islands.’
An excellent piece of reporting and very very scary and really worth a read unless you are a Sevco supporter as it could cause nightmares 😯
RyanGosling says: (116)
December 5, 2013 at 8:08 pm
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Jockybhoy rangers categorically did not “EBT their way to 9 in a row”. EBTs were not used until years after 9 in a row was own, fairly and squarely.
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Correct and until any evidence to the contrary emerges this becomes another squirrel.