On the Old Club vs New Club (OCNC) debate, the SFA’s silence has been arguably the most damaging factor with respect to the future of the game. Of course people get frustrated when there is a deliberate policy of silence on the part of the SFA which results in the endless cycle of arguments being trotted out again and again with no resolution or closure possible.
The irony (it’s only irony if you assume that the SFA have gone to great lengths to create the conditions for the unbroken history status of the new club) is that the mealy-mouthed attitude they have adopted has actually polarised opinion in a far more serious and irreconcilable way than had they just made a clear statement when Sevco were handed SFA membership. A bit of leadership, with a decision either way at that time would have spiked a lot of OCNC guns very early on, but as history shows, they were afraid of a backlash from wherever it came.
I am now convinced that Scottish Football has passed the Event Horizon and is broken beyond the possibility of any repair that might have taken it back to its pre-2010 condition. Rangers fans will never – no matter what any eventual pronouncement from Hampden may be – accept that their next trophy will be their first. The trouble is that no-one else – again despite anything from Hampden – will cast them as anything else other than a new club who were given a free passage into the higher echelons of the game. Furthermore, they will forever force that down the throats of Rangers fans whenever and wherever they play. A recipe for discord, threats of violence, actual violence, and a general ramping up of the sectarian gas that we had all hoped, only a year or so ago, was to be set to an all-time low peep.
There is a saying in politics that we get the government we deserve. It works both ways though, and the SFA will get the audience it deserves. In actual fact it is the one it has actively sought over the last couple of years, for they have tacitly (and even perhaps explicitly) admitted that Scottish Football is a dish best served garnished with sectarianism. They have effectively told us that without it, the game cannot flourish, and they stick to that fallacy even although the empirical evidence of the past year indicates otherwise.
That belief is an intellectual black-hole they have now thrust the game into. They have effectively said that only two clubs actually matter in Scottish football. The crazy thing is that to put their plans into action they have successfully persuaded enough of the other clubs to jump into the chasm and hence vote themselves into irrelevance and permanent semi-obscurity.
That belief is also shared by the majority in the MSM, who despite their lofty, self-righteous and ostensibly anti-sectarian stance, have done everything they can to stir the hornet’s nest in the interests of greater sales.
Act as an unpaid wing of a PR company, check nothing, ask nothing, help to create unrest, and then tut-tut away indignantly like Monty Python Pepperpots when people take them to task.
Consequently the victims of all the wrongdoing (creditors and clubs) walk away without any redress or compensation for the loss of income and opportunity (and history) – stripped of any pride and dignity since they do so in the full knowledge of what has happened. But even as they wipe away the sand kicked in their faces, those clubs still insist on the loyalty of their own fanbases, the same fans whose trust they have betrayed with their meek acceptance of the new, old order.
The kinder interpretation of the impotence of the clubs is that they want to avoid the hassle and move on, the more cynical view that they are interested only in money, not people. In either case, sporting integrity, in the words of Lord Traynor of Winhall (Airdrie, not Vermont), is “crap”.
The question is; which constituency of 21st century Scotland subscribes to that 17th century paradigm?
Sadly, this massive hoax, this gigantic insult to our collective intelligence, is working. Many will leave the game – many already have in view of the spineless absence of intervention from their own clubs – but many, many more will stay and support the charade.
If you doubt my prediction, ask yourself how many tickets will be unsold the first time the New Rangers play Celtic at Parkhead? That my friends will be final imprimatur of authenticity on just exactly who New Rangers are, no matter the proclamations of both sides of the OCNC argument.
From my knowledge this blog was set up to highlight any deviation from fair play for all clubs from those running our game .
Ok it followed on from the disbanding of the RTC blog but the RTC blog was set up to inform people of the dire financial state of one of the biggest Scottish football clubs and the use of EBTs for the best part of 10 years .
The fact however that a lot of posters from RTC moved here may make the blog seem to have an anti OC/NC theme but IMO the blog cannot avoid or dismiss what has gone on at Ibrox .
For me DM is pivitol to what has gone on in our game since he took the seat at Ibrox and is solely to blame for the Omni shambles our game has become .
His decisions have led to the the car crash we are witnessing and have led to the peepil in the 6th floor bastardising our game to such an extent that it is unrecognisable at a serious sport
If that leads new arrivals to deem it anti Sevco then that is yet another bi product of his legacy
Agreed Fergus, if DM had done his job we would never have heard of those that came after. Been a laugh though….
Another fine mess!
For the avoidance of doubt, there are 2 Easdales brothers – 1 is on the RIFC board and 1 is on the TRFC board.
When someone asks – is Whyte involved at Rangers – the water is muddied so much the answer never quite satisfies.
Due to the SFA/SPL/SFL/SPFL incompetence, the Rangers franchise can talk about “interests of the club” “history of the club” and “financial well being of the club” and we have no clue if they are talking about RIFC who is the brand new holding company of the club created a year ago, or TRFC who by way of the 5 way agreement got the right to play in SFL Div 3 last year and were formerly Sevco Scotland having been born in June 2012.
Thanks in part to the intended confusion laid down expertly by CG, JI and folks like Bryce, with the full compliance of our governing bodies, we have the ridiculous scenario where the Brothers Grimm can talk about “the club” as if they are on the same board.
So when one is asked – does CW have any dealings with the club, they can say no. However, no one is defining this for them.
If they mean TRFC, then no – CW has already conceded long ago he never had anything to do with Sevco Scotland who became TRFC – he claims Sevco Scotland should never have been allowed to become TRFC as the assets were sold to Sevco 5088, which he has an interest in.
If they mean RIFC, then there is nothing to stop him buying shares there legally since the SFA ban would surely only apply to TRFC – based on the 5 way agreement CF released but this still remains buried to the shame of the 3 parties involved from our governing bodies – 2 of whom no longer exist – making SFA the only party still around.
if they mean RFC-NIL, then I would assume CW has an interest there given the fact they are liquidating his company that he bought for a quid from SDM.
Problem is no one in the SMSM wants to press anyone from Ibrokes on this and get a definitive answer. Indeed Pinsett Mason has not confirmed anything either.
The intentional confusion of club and companies works a treat when they want it to. Which is why no one from McMurdo to Graham to Leggo to Dingwall are worried about running out of money. If you have the secret to everlasting life, then why worry about mere trivialities like mortality?
Fact is RIFC and TRFC are 2 different animals – 1 is the master and 1 is the slave – something the Peepil may be finding out very shortly!
For an apology to be meaningful it has to be sincere.
Can anyone name a single character involved in the senior management operation at Ibrox in the last say 10 years (?) that could be accused of sincerity?
The time for apologies is long passed.
I want to see justice and the rule of law applied to this shambles.
I want to see the likes of SDM and his fellow travellers in the dock for massive tax evasion.
I want to see those that facilitated massive tax evasion in the dock too.
I want the UTT to name and shame those that were involved – organisers and recipients.
I want to see significant efforts made to reclaim the missing millions.
I want LNS reconvened with a proper mandate post-UTT and effective sporting sanctions put in place. In my book this means chucked out of the professional game and free to start afresh in the amateurs if anyone is left who can stomach it. (This might nicely end the OldCo / Newco debate by firmly establishing a DeidCo)
And most especially I want to see the SFA / SPL / SFL / SPFL greatest administrators in the galaxy banned from the sport sine die for bringing the game into massive disrepute.
For me, this is the road to redemption for Scottish football. I believe we should demand no less, and possibly a lot more.
easyJambo says: (607)
December 13, 2013 at 6:10 pm
StevieBC says: (941) December 13, 2013 at 5:30 pm
So either the current FD Stockbridge, or the prospective director Malcolm Murray is telling a lie ?
Should be easy to follow up / prove.
If I paid a GBP 50K leccy bill on behalf of my employer, I am pretty sure I would have a receipt / confirmation of payment for my records.
And I presume that whoever supposedly paid this bill was reimbursed ?
======================================
From the Annual accounts
28. RELATED PARTY TRANSACTIONS
On 6 August 2012, Brian Stockbridge, a Director of RIFC provided a loan of £50,000 to The Rangers Football Club Ltd (RFCL). No interest accrued on this balance which was repaid on 7 August 2012
======================================
Thanks for that eJ.
But I’m more confused now !
If that ‘loan’ was for the leccy bill, then why is Stockbridge not shouting about it to all and sundry ?
Especially as he is getting pelters from all sides in the run up to the AGM.
…and why would M. Murray tell an apparent whopper when he is trying to gain the TRFC fans’ trust ?
Stockbridge could / should easily embarrass M.Murray for fibbing to the fans ?
StevieBC says: (942)
December 13, 2013 at 7:27 pm
Stevie,
Stockbridge paid the RIFC leccy bill and Murray paid the TRFC leccy bill – simples 😀
chugg from sons of struth cut off at the end on radio clyde
iamacant says: (372)
December 13, 2013 at 7:31 pm
StevieBC says: (942)
December 13, 2013 at 7:27 pm
Stevie,
Stockbridge paid the RIFC leccy bill and Murray paid the TRFC leccy bill – simples 😀
===========================
D’oh !
I’m a wee bit slow today… 🙄
Now someone on Twitter, has discovered a coincidence………there is now an advert for McGills buses on Bill McMurdo’s blog…………..given that he has declared himself in the “present board must stay” camp, there is no kick back here surely!
https://twitter.com/VidmarFF/status/411582264938876928/photo/1
The biggest question of all is
Can our game recover from this shambles and unveiled corruption ? .
Sadly I don’t think it can ,decisions have been taken and secret agreements have been entered into that cannot be reversed ,if this had occurred 50 or 60 years ago it may well have been buried in history but IMO it is only a matter of time before this whole scandal is exposed and laid bare to all .
When it is people will probably say “how was that allowed to happen” ,well I have witnessed it and I know how it was allowed to happen and so too do many others .
Then and only then will the future ST holders at our clubs know what to look out for in their game .
As for the rest of us ,as long as the peepil who allowed it to happen still walk the corridors of power in our game ,we can only expect more of the same .
Has anyone thought of how a Sevco 2012 living within it’s means and adhering to the rules is going to live up to the expectations of the peepil of the 6th floor ,ie challenging for titles never mind being in the top six after the split .
Well my friends that is the future you and I will be facing soon .
They tried everything they could to force Sevco 2012 into the SPL ,then Div 1 ,does anyone think after all their efforts they are going to settle for a mid table SPFL team .
No neither do I
Tif Finn says: (1000)
December 13, 2013 at 4:00 pm
The interesting line in the BBC item is;
“If that fails to gather support, the new team could begin life in the Third Division”
It was a new team back then, but it’s not now ?
Anybody who knows me knows I’m not anyone’s puppet.
Easdale’s personal shareholding in Rangers is just under 5%, but he has established voting rights of 26%, including those held by Blue Pitch Holdings and Margarita Holdings
Anyone else see a contradiction here? I am no puppet but am being told how to vote by 21% of voting rights given to me………….. 💡
Exiled Celt
More like 80%. If Ant or Dec Easedale has control of 26% of the vote and only 5% of the vote is actually down to his shares, 80% of the voting power he brings to the table is someone else’s.
Esteban – meant 21% of the voting rights of the RIFC shareholdings – but you are correct – thanks for the correction!
Why don’t sevco have an identical forum to this, covering the same issues, with the same house rules. Challenging the accusations of helping hands from CO&Co, blind eyes, rule waving, honest mistakes the whole lot. Have a forum to debate, prove or disprove the whole thing. Not the usual baseless derogatory insults offered as reasoning.
I’m no expert on human behaviour, but surely its not at all natural for an entire group of people who are best placed, yet have zero interest in the questioning those responsible for reducing their club to such a catastrophic pile. People who claim they want to move on, to return to sporting matters, people who find themselves in the ideal position to challenge, yet have resisted the pressure being heaped on them by human nature at least to ask, about the ongoing disgrace that is CO and many others who do not fit in with their fenian hand theory. Unless that is, you see football not as a sport, more a vehicle for the WATP agenda.
What would you do if you accidentally touched the ball when addressing it at golf or snooker, or if a wee wifey in front of you drops her purse ? I’d do the right thing, I wouldn’t be comfortable with the allegations made against my character for personal or sporting gain, I like my sleep. The amount of players in this debacle who have failed to do the right thing illustrates how big an issue and long a post Ryan has ahead of him, good luck with that. But the time for contrition was long ago, and should have taken the form of a laying bare of the sordid deals and detail. That will never happen, as the appropriate act of contrition would be followed closely by perjury charges I would imagine.
With the newest club in Scottish football posting a £19m loss for winning Div 3 ,after a reported cash injection of £22m from the IPO .
I wonder at what their figures will show for winning Div 2 and one can only dream of the business plan that they gave to the peepil at the SFA that allowed them legitimacy .
Again this brings this blog into focus as to what is occurring in our game at the moment ,who sanctioned the new clubs existence and why .
Well I may attempt to answer part of my own question ,I assume those running our game and plenty if not all top flight clubs went along with it ,losing 30 to 40,000 paying customers to our game would be a big loss and the Glasgow derbies were if nothing else high profile for the Scottish game (although what benefit this had to clubs outside the big two Glasgow clubs has been shown up big time ) the decision makers will in time whine that they did what they did for the good of Scottish football .
I am afraid they have now spawned a beast that has the potential to do more destruction than the cold hard truth ever could
Galling fiver “sevco” do have a forum identical to this. It’s called The Scottish Football Monitor and it’s open to all who aren’t trolls. I’m reliably informed by redlichtie that even non Arbroath fans are welcome.
Galling fiver
the reason they do not is because they would have to face up to some home truths
That is why I now have a default position when discussing the issue with any Sevco 2012 fan .
Do you believe the EBTs were legitimate loans or player remuneration ,if they answer the former ,I refrain from engaging them further in conversation ,as to do so would be futile
Galling fiver says makes a very pertinent point about “doing the right thing”. It really is that basic. A point well made
Thought this was a celtic forum, or was that someone else who said that?
Courtesy AMAC on CM, Easdale interview with Peter Smith on STV.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P205JWFqhWY&feature=youtu.be
TBF, a touch more probing than usual puff pieces!!
Ryan Dec13 9:42. Chapeau.
Esteban says: (54)
December 13, 2013 at 9:10 pm
… 80% of the voting power he brings to the table is someone else’s.’
——–
I wonder what kind of ‘form of proxy’ has been signed by the shareholders from whom Easdale ‘acquired the voting rights’?
Would they have been trusting enough to allow him a ‘free’ vote, or would they have been untrusting enough to bind him to vote strictly in accordance with their written instructions?
If it’s not an ordinary proxy arrangement, how does one ‘ acquire’ someone else’s voting rights?
And if it is an ordinary proxy arrangement, why the use of inflated terms such as ‘acquired’, as if he had some kind of proprietary right to the shares?
RyanGosling says: (142)
December 13, 2013 at 9:42 pm
Galling fiver “sevco” do have a forum identical to this. It’s called The Scottish Football Monitor and it’s open to all who aren’t trolls. I’m reliably informed by redlichtie that even non Arbroath fans are welcome.
==============================================================
Absolutely Ryan though very few are aware of the secret 2-way agreement that sets out that TSFM actually stands for The Smokie Football Monitor.
More seriously I am positive that TSFM welcomes rational debate from any source. The objective as I understand it is to have a forum where ideas and views can be tested and debated without rancour or posters being shouted down. There is no restriction that I know of with regard to club allegiance.
“To jaw-jaw is always better than to war-war.” – Winston Churchill
Scottish Football needs wider debate on the issues of importance to the sport.
john clarke says: (1429)
December 13, 2013 at 10:10 pm
—
Absolutely. I think this was Exiled Celt’s original point.
Ryan, no offence meant, I realise your value to the blog. It would be nice to have a mirror image of this blog weighted in the favour of opinions like your own. That others can debate in. That better? Or the hole getting bigger?
Ryan
do you have any personal knowledge of any fans that are like minded regards the welfare of our game as a whole ,if so could you not ask them to look in and maybe contribute .
I believe you have your football club at heart and as a football supporter myself I would hope the blog could rise above rival squabbles and rid OUR game of the bare corruption once and for all .
Corruption in any form only leads to the demise of the entity either short term or long term and the only winners are the corrupt that fill their boots .
We on the other hand want to enjoy football games now and in the future ,I for one love to watch my team every week and I hope this whole debacle never leads me to give up something I love
Haha no offence taken galling fiver. It is a good point that you make, and it would be a nice thing to have. But I don’t really see it happening. There are not a great body of rangers fans particularly willing to be critical of the club, even when such self criticism is necessary.
Not sure fergus. Unfortunately a lot of my mates have started knocking their wives up and things and don’t have the time I have to spend trawling the internet for banter! I certainly have spoken of time spent on here to my mates, of many different footballing persuasions, most have been interested to hear of it but none have been particularly keen on contributing. And finally, when you say “like minded” I guess you mean rangers fans – I have a seem to have developed a distressingly large number of Celtic fans amongst my friends over recent years!
TSFM: I’ve submitted a lengthy post with corroborating links which have probably blocked it into review.
I think it’s important it is used in its entirety. Can you check, please? Ta.
The contrition some seek will never happen now, as per the original piece (that we have 2,800 replies to) we are past the event horizon. OT a wee bit but I just read Robert Harris’s novel on the Dreyfuss Affair. I watched the ITV drama part one on Thursday about Lord Lucan based on the book “The Gamblers” and earlier this year read “An English Affair”, all about Profumo et al. These are the opposite of conspiracy theories in that they are about stuff that happened, the stuff didn’t suit the establishment, cover up and rule bending ensued with the establishment digging itself deeper and deeper into the sh*t. (To be accurate Lucan and the Clermont mob have still got away with it but the smell is the same.)
Back on topic, the Rangers/Sevco stuff is pretty insignificant in comparison but it’s the same stuff, establishment and sh*t. Forget contrition, let’s get on with the exposure.
Any legal person:
1. Update on Imran the “IM rangers” mans claim in Edinburgh
2. Update on BDO Rangers oldco v Collyer Bristow V HMRC V Jerome and others from Wed Chancery court London?
Potential £500k from the coffers of RIFC due to Imran in #1
Potential £3.9m to creditors (remember the paper shop Scottish Ambulance) etc etc in #2
Or is this not important anymore?
I think were a bit light on the insight now Pauls gone.
Self criticism aside, I just dont get why the motives and actions of a certain individual in high office has not been scrutinised by the fans who have been affected most by him, on any forum. And of course because its probably the best chance we have of getting rid, if he is no longer the goto guy.
I shall continue with the gratuitous use of “sevco” mind you, for the banter.
paulsatim says: (651)
December 13, 2013 at 9:53 pm
6 0 Rate This
Courtesy AMAC on CM, Easdale interview with Peter Smith on STV.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P205JWFqhWY&feature=youtu.be
TBF, a touch more probing than usual puff pieces!!
————–
Indeed. Bravo Peter Smith. He does his homework.
Dave King don’t make me laff. Heres a REAL billionaire who likes fitba clubs especially if their away from his own patch. Sons of whatever he’s contactable via Interpol (like some others you may know)
For all those poster referencing Porstmouth viz a viz OCNC etc ad nauseaum remember where the dough came from.
From Public Integrity.org
Secrecy for sale: Post-Soviet billionaires invade UK, via British Virgin Island
Questions arise as mega-rich from Russia and former Soviet republics descend on London
Britain’s friendly regime of offshore secrecy has tempted an extraordinary array of post-Soviet billionaires to descend on London, sometimes to the sound of gunfire.
These billionaires justify their use of British-controlled secrecy jurisdictions because they say they must protect themselves from corporate predators and political enemies in their home countries.
Vladimir Antonov fled permanently to Britain after his father, Alexander, was gunned down in a Moscow street in 2009. Another associate, German Gorbuntsov, narrowly survived a volley of shots in London last March.
When Antonov bought a luxury yacht in Antibes, the Sea D, he was careful to register its ownership to an anonymous British Virgin Islands (BVI) entity, Danforth Ventures Inc.
He also got his hands on enough cash to try to take over the ailing Swedish car manufacturer Saab, though he did not take control. He did succeed for a while in owning Portsmouth FC, the even more ailing British football club.
Antonov is currently on bail in Britain. Lithuanian authorities are trying to extradite him for allegedly looting their collapsed bank Snoras, which he denies.
The allegation that oligarchs exploit Britain’s offshore secrecy regime to shift assets out of their own countries is not an uncommon one. Another refugee from the law is the Kazakh billionaire Mukhtar Ablyazov, who was last seen in February allegedly heading out of London on a coach to France.
Ablyazov has been sentenced to 22 months in jail for contempt of a UK court as the BTA Bank in Kazakhstan attempts to pursue his maze of offshore assets. The bank’s lawyers claim Ablyazov, who denies it, has made off with an astonishing £4 billion using BVI and Seychelles companies, nominee directors and layers of front-men
================
Top drawer spivs none of yer Yorky amatuers. Go on you know you want to.
Ryan
It may surprise you that I am interested in Rangers supporters opinions on what happened to their club .
I am a football fan and not in the least interested in the religious or bigoted side of any clubs .
My biggest concern at the moment is that a game I was paranoid about for years has now seemed to have shown me I was not paranoid enough .
I had hoped that when the demise of ragers occurred the club that filled the void would have the real Rangers Football supporters at the helm ,alas ST sales were slow till CG played the bigot card and the rest is history .
Sorry for concentrating on negatives of the Ragers debacle but again I feel it is relative to the origin of TSFM .
If the rest of us can realise that there still are real Rangers football supporters out there that also want OUR game back then maybe we can all push for the same goal .
Just in case I am accused of courting moderate Sevco 2012 fans Ryan .
Do you think the EBTs were legitimate loans or remuneration to players
Not posted for a long time but keep an eye on this forum…. it’s good to find out what is really going on somewhere!
On the theme of integrity and honest reporting by the MSM, I don’t know if this has already been posted, but apparently Jim Spence has been banned from Dens Park, confirmed by him on his Twitter account. Some Dees are not at all impressed and there is speculation as to a possible connection to recent MSM linkage of Dundee FC CEO Gardiner and the Board of the Ibrox club. Just to confirm any resemblence between DFC and the North Korean government is entirely coincidental.
I take comfort in knowing that our MSM will ask hard questions about why Jim is banned, unless they look at the Mark Dalys and Jim Spences of this world and opt instead for the softer option, again.
ianagain says: (55)
December 13, 2013 at 11:08 pm
‘….1. Update on Imran the “IM rangers” mans claim in Edinburgh.’
——-
Not a ‘legal’, of course, but I wasn’t in court for the little procedural hearing, so I don’t know whether a date has been fixed for the full hearing, or, if it was, what that date may be. ( I don’t suppose he has abandoned the action!).
I shall be looking out for it, though.
EBTs were of course remuneration to the players. The point of them was to try to wrap it up in the very loosest sense of the term “legal” to avoid incurring taxation. I disagree with the whole concept profoundly, whoever used them, and as a starting point I really do have a problem with the government allowing such loopholes to be written into law to allow the richest people in the country to avoid paying tax that the rest of us pay.
Now that I’ve got that off my chest, I believe your question was probably directed at Rangers’ EBT use. I believe the FTT found that five cases were remuneration, therefore tax dodging, and the rest were legitimate loans. We will see what the UTT finds. I don’t believe that they were loans of any kind, they were clearly remuneration. But that doesn’t mean that they weren’t strictly legal at the time, if immoral- we will find out what the UTT says. However, I can’t see how a legal EBT, with all the arms length steps that had to be in place to allow it to be legal, could possibly not be a breach of SFA rules.
Taysider says: (93)
December 13, 2013 at 11:44 pm
‘…..I take comfort in knowing that our MSM will ask hard questions about why Jim is banned,..’
————-
The fat boy’s uncle in North korea would have had more support from his colleagues than Jim Spence will get from the BBC or his chicken-livered Press colleagues, if the ban is on the grounds that have been suggested.
Incidents like this give an opportunity to real journalists to stick up for the notion of ‘journalistic duty’-fearless exposure of truth.
Puff- piece writing :slamb: sham journalists betray their lack of principle by not getting right tore into those very precious egoists who think they should be beyond criticism. And there’s many of them around.
Let’s see how English and Spiers and BBC Sportsound react to this, for starters.
Will we be pleasantly surprised?
john clarke says: (1430)
December 13, 2013 at 11:49 pm
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ianagain says: (55)
December 13, 2013 at 11:08 pm
‘….1. Update on Imran the “IM rangers” mans claim in Edinburgh.’
——-
Not a ‘legal’, of course, but I wasn’t in court for the little procedural hearing, so I don’t know whether a date has been fixed for the full hearing, or, if it was, what that date may be. ( I don’t suppose he has abandoned the action!).
I shall be looking out for it, though.
==========================================
Thanks John
So if I was Finance director at Pretendygers I would post haste be putting an addendum to the AGM minutes that an outstanding bill of half a million was unsettled, would I not?
RyanGosling says: (144)
December 13, 2013 at 11:51 pm
‘…We will see what the UTT finds..’
———-
Yes, RG. We are up against the perennial distinction between what is ‘moral’ and what is ‘legal’.
We have to remind ourselves occasionally that the principal charge, in a football context, against SDM’s Rangers is not rooted in the criminality of tax evasion, but in the deliberate flouting of the SFA’s and( the then) SPL’s rules about disclosure of all payments made to players.
That is, the legality or otherwise of the EBT scheme is really neither here nor there.
Even if the UTTT finds that in every case the EBT loans were legally permitted, the failure to declare all the ‘loan’ payments made is still a serious breach of the Football rules.
It is that ‘cheatery’ that is most important, rather than the (also) important social taxes cheatery if the UTTT finds that as a matter of law the payments were legal.
The Football cheatery in ITSELF condemns SDM and that whole crew as the sneaky, cheating, dishonest, base things that they are, and nullifies any ‘sporting’ success that their ‘sportsmen’ achieved.
That’s what we are really on about: the spurious claims of sporting success earned by honourable and fair sporting endeavour.
While the EBT-paid players may have personally played honourably and fairly, the club ( happily now in Liquidation) was stealing a corrupt march on the rest of Scottish Football. Those players were available and able to play only because the club cheated and lied to Scottish football in the way it found the money to afford them.
The rottenness lay in the rotten cheating heart of the club, in its whole approach to its business.
Aided and abetted in that approach by certain individuals in office.
Therein lies the major ‘crime’.
Followed, of course, by other major footballing crimes.
The full interview with Easdale, some tough questions asked! Some of the questions might have been followed up a bit more, but compared to what has gone before, well! Dont think Peter Smith going to be on Clyde or Shortbread phone-ins anytime soon.
http://news.stv.tv/west-central/256741-easdale-wealthy-individuals-backing-investment-plan-for-rangers/
ianagain says: (56)
December 14, 2013 at 12:06 am
‘.. I would post haste be putting an addendum to the AGM minutes that an outstanding bill of half a million was unsettled, would I not?’
——–
You mean that their Accounts do not show such a thing, such a what-do-you-call-it, contingent liability?
Do they not have a first rate FD, and super-first-rate CEO ? Tsk, tsk. I AM surprised! 😎
Ryan
I am glad you said that regards the EBTs .
It is no way points scoring on my point as I think we both know we are looking at this issue from totally opposite sides (football wise )
My point on this subject is that one man brought that scheme to your club ,one man Knew what he was doing when he did so and one man should shoulder the blame .
Look into his venture into basketball for a prelim as to what he brought to our FOOOTBALL
Best of luck with your guest blog Ryan and all the best for supporters like yourself look beyond CW ,IMO he was brought in to take the flak ,the MSM are not your friends and never have been ,if they were your old club would never have found itself in the situation it did ,ask Hugh Adam .
john clarke says: (1432)
December 14, 2013 at 12:32 am
Wonderful stuff Mr Clarke. ‘Cheatery’ is a great adjective for what went on at the club that died in 2012.
Always nice to see cheats getting punished. Unfortunately for Gosling, Bryce, Steerpike and co. , their club received the death penalty.
What still irks me is at what stage did this cheatery start. Anyone ever investigated the contracts of Laudrup and Gascoigne? At the time it was unheard of for players of that calibre to move from top class Serie A clubs to Glasgow. Given what has transpired, I’d be astonished if there wasn’t cheatery at play here too!
rougvielovesthejungle says: (71)
December 14, 2013 at 12:52 am
‘….Anyone ever investigated the contracts of Laudrup and Gascoigne? .’
———-
I don’t think the pornographer struck-off lawyer was around at that time. I laugh to myself to think of what SDM and Co must be saying to themselves about their stupidity in listening to and believing such a guy!
But I went into my emails a minute or so ago, and on the Yahoo news page I see the stuff about Galatasaray digging up their pitch in order to beat Juventus!
And I thought ( all due respect to Boris Johnson ) , if you want inventive ways , look to Turkey.
SDM could have saved a fortune!
Nice try rougvie but that’s a step too far IMO. Those titles were won fair and square. Don’t forget that in the pre bosman era player wages weren’t anything like what they are now therefore there wasn’t the need for such financial chicanery.
Ryan
As you say ,you can’t see how these payments did not fall foul of SFA rules .
They must have
Now you see were, we of all other FOOTBALL SUPPORTERS are coming from .
This is not about Rangers ,they are in liquidation ,it is about the corruption of OUR game .
Do you not think it was “financial chicanery” with (S)DM from day one then?
Thinking about his skill with chicanery, David should surely just have ploughed other peoples money into
Formula 1 😆
Who owns Blue Pitch Holdings’ and Margarita Trust’s involvement in Rangers?
And Norne Ansalt’s too?
Who employs Mazen Houssami as his family lawyer?
Who employed Chris Morgan as a Director at more than one of his companies?
Who has company links to Kaisar and Haddad via Lebanon and Monaco?
Who accepted a plea bargain from an Italian court of a three-year suspended sentence plus €6.8million to be paid back to the administrators of Gama spA in Verona, after being accused of corruption and fraudulent bankruptcy in a case that involved massive funds being drained out of the Italian catering company and dispersed to Britain, Ireland, Nigeria, Kyrgistan and Romania?
Step forward Albert John Martin Abela.
For confirmation, wait till my previous post is removed from moderation for including too many links to court reports, newspaper reports and Spivco statements.
rltj
DM did dip into motor racing ,briefly if I recall ,can you shed any light on what went on
Again TSFM mods ,I think this may be relevant to DMs MO of eliminating opposition .
Not advisable in the game of football but maybe he thought better
NMG
keep digging ,there is skulduggery going on here and now and you guys carry the torch for debate
RyanGosling says: (145)
December 14, 2013 at 1:06 am
‘…Don’t forget that in the pre bosman era player wages weren’t anything like what they are now .’
—–
Good point.
And it brings us back to the question of whether wage/transfer fee capping is a goer.
I have great difficulty in answering that question.
But I think an answer has to be found, or else the world will be left with about a handful of football clubs owned by mega mega bucks Arab sheikhs or Chinese plutocrats and/or the Berlusconis of the finance world.
And only amateur football will be left, for those who actually love the sport as a sport.
Hmmnn. Maybe not such a bad idea, at that.
John I’d definitely be in the wage capping camp, but it’ll never happen unfortunately due to free market laws etc. I think eventually there will be a correction in prices though because eventually the average fan will say enough is enough and the market will crash. Hopefully.
Fergus I’m not arguing with you, seems we are on the same page.
Rougvie I don’t think it was from the start. It wasn’t until the advocaat years that the spending really got out of control, although the signs were there in the smith era. But there was nothing illegal or dodgy that any of us are aware of prior to the very late 90s.
Totally OT, apologies, but I’m finally just getting round to watching Keane & Vieira – why are players not allowed to take their shirts off to celebrate a goal any more?! If those rules had been in place previously we’d have missed out on the sight of Ryan Giggs’s magnificent rug, and the world would have been a much poorer place.
Sorry. Rug rant over. Back to business…
RyanGosling says: (147)
December 14, 2013 at 1:37 am
Totally OT, apologies, but I’m finally just getting round to watching Keane & Vieira – why are players not allowed to take their shirts off to celebrate a goal any more?! If those rules had been in place previously we’d have missed out on the sight of Ryan Giggs’s magnificent rug, and the world would have been a much poorer place.
Sorry. Rug rant over. Back to business…
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
It’s a silly rule probably brought in by UEFA due to the increasing interest in womens football.
RyanGosling says: (147)
December 14, 2013 at 1:37 am
‘… why are players not allowed to take their shirts off to celebrate a goal any more?!..’
—–
I imagine that it is because -and this is a generational thing- the exaggerated nonsense of individual self-glorification totally destroys the idea of teamwork.
A tennis player, a gymnast, a swimmer, a cyclist, a boxer, a feckin darts player, snooker player….. they can all justifiably put their success down to personal merit.
A Messi, a Neymar, a ‘Ronald O’ ( I loved that !) could achieve nothing without the other 10 guys.
Nothing.
And when I see the hubris some display, I urge on the fall that comes after pride!
Can I be alone?
I continue to be mystified why there should be any “mystery” about the “mystery shareholders” behind Blue Pitch Holdings and Margarita Trust, who appear to hold a controlling interest over the affairs of TRFC. The investors that Malcolm Murray called “Arabs” who like to be “secretive”.
Dear old Charlotte Fakes revealed that BC Abela was behind the Margarita and Norne Ansalt investments while Mazen Houssami was Blue Pitch. http://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/index.php?/topic/106910-the-rangers-soap-opera-goes-on-and-on-see-admin-note-in-post-1/page__st__53100#entry3891529
Our old friend Green confirmed in October 2012 in an official statement that Houssami was indeed the “legal beneficiary” of the Blue Pitch shares. http://www.rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/item/2451-charles-green-statement
Who does Mr Houssami work for? A Supreme Court judgment from June 2013 reveals that Houssami was the official lawyer for Albert John Martin Abela in Beirut who had failed to adequately submit a claim document to a Mr Baadarani, whom Mr Abela appears to have been involved in a protracted legal dispute with.
To save you searching through a very lengthy document (it’s at Paragraph 7 on Page 4), the first mention of Mr Blue Pitch says: “The evidence before Morgan J comprised the first and second witness statements of Mr Mascarenhas of the appellants’ solicitors and the first witness statement of the appellants’ Lebanese lawyer, Mr Houssami.”
http://www.supremecourt.gov.uk/decided-cases/docs/UKSC_2012_0023_Judgment.pdf
This dispute between Mr Abela and Mr Baadarani centred on their involvement in the takeover of an Italian catering company called Gama spA, based in Verona, which collapsed into bankruptcy 10 years ago amid allegations of corruption, fraud and “fraudulent bankruptcy”.
Funnily enough, Albert John Martin Abela, who was chairman of Gama, seemed to come in for most of the criticism from the company’s administrator, who spoke of funds being bled out of the Italian company and “invested” in Britain, Ireland, Romania, Kyrgistan, Nigeria and elsewhere.
Describing his task in trying to find out where the cash went, the administrator added: “”It is not easy to trace the property – where you have to look for all the pieces to compose the picture is like a big puzzle. The Lebanese had a lot of imagination.”
http://www.filcams.cgil.it/home.nsf/IFrameCorpo1l?OpenPage&http://www.filcams.cgil.it/stampa.nsf/504ca249c786e20f85256284006da7ab/2a3bc9eba8fa9222c12570f1003c2e5e!OpenDocument
For a while Italian police had an arrest warrant out for Mr Abela and classed him as a fugitive. Eventually he came to a plea bargain with the Italian courts and agreed in 2008 to accept a three-year suspended sentence and €6.8million payment to Gama’s administrators.
Even then police in Italy were still coming up with evidence of what they suspected were fraudulent transactions to remove cash from Gama. In fact, the discovery of a previously unknown deal worth €16million, in which Abela had apparently sold a real estate company in Romania to his cousin Gabriel, prompted them to reopen their investigations in 2010.
Reporting this, L’Arena newspaper in Verona confirmed the details of Abela’s plea bargain (sorry, this is Google Translate): “In fact, for the collapse of Gama John Martin Abela had already adjusted its position December 19, 2008 when the prosecutor Marco Zenatelli accepted the plea bargain that included 3-year suspended prison sentence. At the same time, the Lebanese had reached an agreement with the commissioners of bankruptcy and had shelled out 6 million and 800 thousand euro to repair the trouble in the management of the combined company. Now with this new multi-million subtraction of funds to the catering company, opening new questions. First of all, we must see if Abela has closed its accounts with the transaction, signed in December 2008, or if the power of attorney and guardianship scuciranno other million euro fund to be included in the bankruptcy.” http://mobile.larena.it/stories/Cronaca/147227__fallimento_della_gama_un_altro_buco_milionario/
So, all in all, there seems little doubt about who is behind the Blue Pitch, Margarita and Norne Ansalt investments in Sevco 5088, which were “novated” to Sevco Scotland and then RIFC: It’s Albert John Martin Abela. Houssami is his lawyer and Chris Morgan worked for him at a number of Abela firms including NEOS Interactive while Kaisar and Haddad are also connected to the Abela clan in Lebanon and Monaco.
Mr Abela is the “mystery investor”.
And now we know why is being so “secretive”.
Poor Ally is confused 😛 such a busy week ahead but I’m sure things will be a good bit clearer for all by this time next week 😀 and I’ sure knowing the easedale brothers are calling the shots ( till the agm anyway ) will put the bears minds at rest 😛
nickmcguinness
Brilliant! TSFM needs ‘diggers’ like yourself to get in behind the woodwork.
paulsatim says: (652)
December 14, 2013 at 12:38 am
8 0 Rate This
The full interview with Easdale, some tough questions asked! Some of the questions might have been followed up a bit more, but compared to what has gone before, well! Dont think Peter Smith going to be on Clyde or Shortbread phone-ins anytime soon.
http://news.stv.tv/west-central/256741-easdale-wealthy-individuals-backing-investment-plan-for-rangers/
———–
There was an extended interview on SSB and he touched on a few different ideas regarding investment. Seemed heavily-weighted on fans’ buying more expensive season tickets and other creative forms of investment to help run the football on the park.
* If he bought all his shares at 70p or thereabouts (as he said), he’s seriously out of pocket.
* ‘Savings’ a key issue going forward.
* Admin not on the horizon.
* Short-term investments lined up from unnamed sources.
* Long-term investment dependent on fans paying more than at present.
Sheesh, it’s a long and difficult road ahead.
Ryan Gosling to be fair has some interesting points, but i’m disappointed that the “fair and square” winning of trophies etc is being spouted again. Its not just the morality or legality issue of what was a loan or a tax dodge, its also about the incomplete registration resulting from undeclared payments / third party payments. Points should have been deducted, league placings changed, complicit SFA officials sacked etc.
Not that Ryan Gosling needs me to defend him…. bad capt madman, I think you need to go back and look at the post he was responding to.
Wage caps are an interesting argument, however I think the concept would fall foul of European law. In short, what right does a football governing body like UEFA have to tell a club how much it would be allowed to pay it’s players. It is a restriction in trade.
In other considerations, should we have wage caps for actors, singers, authors, film producers or any other occupation.
I would argue that football is not just a sport and is also a part of the entertainment industry. The top paid players are simply the star turns of the show. Why would they not be paid the highest wages, the same as the top actors do.
As with CW, the only source of real income is the fans. Loans arranged on the resilient rinsablilty of supporters are the last resort, mainly because they constitute one off boosts to the balance sheet. Debentures, membership schemes and POs have all been used in the recent past by both DM and Chuck. Whilst DM and Chuck both have nice chateaux from these exercises, mug supporters have simply been sh@t on.
Where are the billionaires, the street smart city sorts, the Rangers men steeped in Rangersnessness?
The stench of desperation accompanied by the frenzied marketing of Lee Wallace et all points to a coming cash crisis.
Will the AGM go ahead?
How much will Chuck sell his penny shares for?
Has Ally donated by proxy to the Rons?
Will CW show his hand pre Thursday?
nickmcguinness says: (147)
December 14, 2013 at 2:02 am
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I continue to be mystified why there should be any “mystery” about the “mystery shareholders” behind Blue Pitch Holdings and Margarita Trust, who appear to hold a controlling interest over the affairs of TRFC. The investors that Malcolm Murray called “Arabs” who like to be “secretive”.
Dear old Charlotte Fakes revealed that BC Abela was behind the Margarita and Norne Ansalt investments while Mazen Houssami was Blue Pitch.
—————————————————————————————————————————————
Excellent work Nick………………and a fair conclusion
RyanGosling says: (147)
December 14, 2013 at 1:06 am
I meant to praise you earlier for acknowledging (S)DM’s financial ‘chicanery’.
Another great adjective to describe the dodgy dealings down Ibrox way but I think the good Mr Clarke’s ‘cheatery’ is undoubtedly superior and more accurate.
Great work this morning from Mr McGuinness trying to get to the bottom of the current ‘cheatery’ going on.
Sorry, boys and girls, I missed out a link from my earlier post. Here it is:
Who does Mr Houssami work for? A Supreme Court judgment from June 2013 reveals that Houssami was the official lawyer for Albert John Martin Abela in Beirut who had failed to adequately submit a claim document to a Mr Baadarani, whom Mr Abela appears to have been involved in a protracted legal dispute with.
To save you searching through a very lengthy document (it’s at Paragraph 7 on Page 4), the first mention of Mr Blue Pitch says: “The evidence before Morgan J comprised the first and second witness statements of Mr Mascarenhas of the appellants’ solicitors and the first witness statement of the appellants’ Lebanese lawyer, Mr Houssami.”
http://www.supremecourt.gov.uk/decided-cases/docs/UKSC_2012_0023_Judgment.pdf
(now included in above edited post)
Just noticed that all Directors of SC437060 & SC425159 have now apparently moved in together under the Ibrox roof going by Co’s House website.
Is this a necessary cost-cutting exercise, or serious prep work for next week ? We shall see,
Ho Ho Ho. Out of the mouths of babes. I was discussing the oldco/newco predicament and purchasing of history with my son in law and my 8 year old grandson asked what we were on about. I tried to explain it to him by saying that it was as if I moved to America and purchased Neil Armstrongs house and car and all his medals and clothes. If I then legally changed my name to Neil Armstrong I could claim to be the first man on the moon. The youngster looked puzzled and pondered this for a few moments before saying “but grandad, Neil Armstrong is dead”. My son in law looked at me and said “even he gets it”. 🙂
The iceman succumbeth. A family meal and free tickets with all my kin folk mean that I will be attending a match in Scottish football for the first time since the signing of the 5 way agreement. Given the Barca slaughter and the disbandment of the Green Brigade could be an interesting day.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25373927
Dunfermline ”exit” administration !
So what ?
What is the difference between ”exiting” administration
And
Going into Liquidation ?
Both mean you no longer have any debt and you can carry on as before,
At least that is what the BBC journalists’ take on it is ?
It is absolutely true that achieving a CVA and going into liquidation are both ways of exiting administration, that is a fact.
The difference however is that one allows the club to continue, the other results in the club being killed off.
jimlarkin says: (692)
December 14, 2013 at 2:04 pm
1 0 Rate This
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25373927
Dunfermline ”exit” administration !
So what ?
What is the difference between ”exiting” administration
And
Going into Liquidation ?
Both mean you no longer have any debt and you can carry on as before,
At least that is what the BBC journalists’ take on it is ?
====
A very big difference, when you liquidate you cease to exist
If RFC is one continuous entity they would have been in the SPL 2012-2013 and played in Europe, as it was they ceased to exist – Sevco Scotland played their first match on 29/7/12 away to Brechin in the Ramsdens Cup under a “conditional” SFA membership (which AFAIK doesn’t exist in the rules) and using the Intellectual property of the dead club, likewise they would not have had to play in round one of the League and Round 2 of the SFA cups.
Just because they changed their name to RFC on 31/7/12, doesn’t make them RFC, their website said at the time
“The Rangers Football Club, a trading name of Sevco Scotland Limited (No SC425159) Ibrox Stadium, 150 Edmiston Drive, Glasgow G51 2XD”
All the lies, spin and smoke n mirrors will never change that
nickmcguinness says: (148)
December 14, 2013 at 2:02 am
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
When Chaz Green says Houssami is the “legal beneficiary” of Blue Pitch Holdings is he just playing with words?
There is a world of difference between the legal ownership of an asset and being the beneficial owner. The legal owner can simply be, say a lawyer, who is holding the asset in trust for someone else, say a person with the initials CW or even AJMA.