Past the Event Horizon

ByBig Pink

Past the Event Horizon

On the Old Club vs New Club (OCNC) debate, the SFA’s silence has been arguably the most damaging factor with respect to the future of the game. Of course people get frustrated when there is a deliberate policy of silence on the part of the SFA which results in the endless cycle of arguments being trotted out again and again with no resolution or closure possible.

The irony (it’s only irony if you assume that the SFA have gone to great lengths to create the conditions for the unbroken history status of the new club) is that the mealy-mouthed attitude they have adopted has actually polarised opinion in a far more serious and irreconcilable way than had they just made a clear statement when Sevco were handed SFA membership. A bit of leadership, with a decision either way at that time would have spiked a lot of OCNC guns very early on, but as history shows, they were afraid of a backlash from wherever it came.

I am now convinced that Scottish Football has passed the Event Horizon and is broken beyond the possibility of any repair that might have taken it back to its pre-2010 condition. Rangers fans will never – no matter what any eventual pronouncement from Hampden may be – accept that their next trophy will be their first. The trouble is that no-one else – again despite anything from Hampden – will cast them as anything else other than a new club who were given a free passage into the higher echelons of the game. Furthermore, they will forever force that down the throats of Rangers fans whenever and wherever they play. A recipe for discord, threats of violence, actual violence, and a general ramping up of the sectarian gas that we had all hoped, only a year or so ago, was to be set to an all-time low peep.

There is a saying in politics that we get the government we deserve. It works both ways though, and the SFA will get the audience it deserves. In actual fact it is the one it has actively sought over the last couple of years, for they have tacitly (and even perhaps explicitly) admitted that Scottish Football is a dish best served garnished with sectarianism. They have effectively told us that without it, the game cannot flourish, and they stick to that fallacy even although the empirical evidence of the past year indicates otherwise.

That belief is an intellectual black-hole they have now thrust the game into. They have effectively said that only two clubs actually matter in Scottish football. The crazy thing is that to put their plans into action they have successfully persuaded enough of the other clubs to jump into the chasm and hence vote themselves into irrelevance and permanent semi-obscurity.

That belief is also shared by the majority in the MSM, who despite their lofty, self-righteous and ostensibly anti-sectarian stance, have done everything they can to stir the hornet’s nest in the interests of greater sales.
Act as an unpaid wing of a PR company, check nothing, ask nothing, help to create unrest, and then tut-tut away indignantly like Monty Python Pepperpots when people take them to task.

Consequently the victims of all the wrongdoing (creditors and clubs) walk away without any redress or compensation for the loss of income and opportunity (and history) – stripped of any pride and dignity since they do so in the full knowledge of what has happened. But even as they wipe away the sand kicked in their faces, those clubs still insist on the loyalty of their own fanbases, the same fans whose trust they have betrayed with their meek acceptance of the new, old order.

The kinder interpretation of the impotence of the clubs is that they want to avoid the hassle and move on, the more cynical view that they are interested only in money, not people. In either case, sporting integrity, in the words of Lord Traynor of Winhall (Airdrie, not Vermont), is “crap”.

The question is; which constituency of 21st century Scotland subscribes to that 17th century paradigm?
Sadly, this massive hoax, this gigantic insult to our collective intelligence, is working. Many will leave the game – many already have in view of the spineless absence of intervention from their own clubs – but many, many more will stay and support the charade.

If you doubt my prediction, ask yourself how many tickets will be unsold the first time the New Rangers play Celtic at Parkhead? That my friends will be final imprimatur of authenticity on just exactly who New Rangers are, no matter the proclamations of both sides of the OCNC argument.

About the author

Big Pink administrator

Big Pink is John Cole; a former schoolteacher based in the West of Scotland, He is also a print and broadcast journalist who is engaged in the running of SFM . Former gigs include Newstalk 106, the Celtic View, and Channel67. A Celtic fan, he is also the voice of our podcast initiative.

3,926 Comments so far

Tif FinnPosted on2:46 pm - Dec 14, 2013


I don’t think legal beneficiary and beneficial owner are the same thing.

As you point out the beneficial owner is the person who really owns the asset rather than the person who may for example hold the title to an asset.

Legal beneficiary is not really the same thing. That is someone who has or will receive a benefit.

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ForresDeePosted on2:57 pm - Dec 14, 2013


The buy season ticket stuff coming out of ibrox very early, I’d expect them to be on sale early April!

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smartie1947Posted on3:03 pm - Dec 14, 2013


ForresDee says: (138)

December 14, 2013 at 2:57 pm

0

0

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The buy season ticket stuff coming out of ibrox very early, I’d expect them to be on sale early April!

=========================================================================

On that tack, Rangers website today is offering a season ticket for the rest of the season at £142.
The accompanying blurb exhorting the faithful states that their record to date reads as follows:-
Played 15
Won 15
Points 52 (sic)

Figures always seem beyond them.

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GeronimosCadillacPosted on3:10 pm - Dec 14, 2013


if Finn says: (1002)
December 14, 2013 at 2:46 pm

I don’t think legal beneficiary and beneficial owner are the same thing.

As you point out the beneficial owner is the person who really owns the asset rather than the person who may for example hold the title to an asset.

Legal beneficiary is not really the same thing. That is someone who has or will receive a benefit.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

So not the actual owner of the asset then? More likely to be held in trust for his and possibly the “benefit” of others?

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briggsbhoyPosted on3:15 pm - Dec 14, 2013


nickmcguinness says: (148)
December 14, 2013 at 2:02 am

There was an article in The Herald on Thursday (may have been Wed) regarding a well heeled Ibrox supporter who wished to remain anonymous but was apparently instructing his London lawyer ( I think that’s what it said) to investigate who was behind Blue Pitch & Margarita. He should have saved himself a few bob and had a peek on here.

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davythelotionPosted on3:45 pm - Dec 14, 2013


ForresDee says: (138)
December 14, 2013 at 2:57 pm
£££££££
As with all things sevcovian, there’s definitely a dispute about the numbers! It’s so bad, even RM has noticed!!!!

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Angus1983Posted on3:51 pm - Dec 14, 2013


smartie1947 says: (168)
December 14, 2013 at 3:03 pm

Played 15
Won 15
Points 52 (sic)
——
Probably been awarded an extra point by a grateful SFA/SFPL for each of their world records – there must be at least 7 new ones by now, no?

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Kilgore TroutPosted on3:57 pm - Dec 14, 2013


smartie1947 @ 3:03pm

On that tack, Rangers website today is offering a season ticket for the rest of the season at £142.
The accompanying blurb exhorting the faithful states that their record to date reads as follows:-
Played 15
Won 15
Points 52 (sic)

Good to see swift action from the SPFL on this one.

Stewart Regan has checked this against the League 1 table, apologised, and amended the table accordingly.

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auchinstarryPosted on4:08 pm - Dec 14, 2013


Geronimo’s and Tiff…….

Beneficial owner.”..Legal term whereby specific property rights” (use and title)” in equity belong to a person, even though legal title of the property belongs to another person.

Third Party Beneficiary…..A person entitled to a beneficial interest,or a right to Profits,benefit, or advantage from a Contract.

Ringing any Bells?

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StevieBCPosted on4:11 pm - Dec 14, 2013


Kilgore Trout says: (101)
December 14, 2013 at 3:57 pm

smartie1947 @ 3:03pm

On that tack, Rangers website today is offering a season ticket for the rest of the season at £142.
The accompanying blurb exhorting the faithful states that their record to date reads as follows:-
Played 15
Won 15
Points 52 (sic)

Good to see swift action from the SPFL on this one.

Stewart Regan has checked this against the League 1 table, apologised, and amended the table accordingly.
=============
…and then Bryson will be wheeled out, to state categorically that – according to his rule book – these additional 7 points will not give TRFC any sporting advantage.

I’ll get my calculator… 🙄

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Danish PastryPosted on4:30 pm - Dec 14, 2013


StevieBC says: (944)
December 14, 2013 at 4:11 pm
5 0 Rate This

Kilgore Trout says: (101)
December 14, 2013 at 3:57 pm

smartie1947 @ 3:03pm

On that tack, Rangers website today is offering a season ticket for the rest of the season at £142.
The accompanying blurb exhorting the faithful states that their record to date reads as follows:-
Played 15
Won 15
Points 52 (sic)

Good to see swift action from the SPFL on this one.

Stewart Regan has checked this against the League 1 table, apologised, and amended the table accordingly.
=============
…and then Bryson will be wheeled out, to state categorically that – according to his rule book – these additional 7 points will not give TRFC any sporting advantage.

I’ll get my calculator…
———-

No one realized (at the time of publishing), that the points tally was false, therefore, it was correct, and should stand.

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smallchangePosted on4:41 pm - Dec 14, 2013


Angus1983 says: (1293)
December 14, 2013 at 3:51 pm
Rate This

smartie1947 says: (168)
December 14, 2013 at 3:03 pm

Played 15
Won 15
Points 52 (sic)
——
Probably been awarded an extra point by a grateful SFA/SFPL for each of their world records – there must be at least 7 new ones by now, no?
——–
Aye, and there’ll be more that they’ll be shouting about such as:
Highest points total
Highest goal difference
Longest unbeaten run, however…
We – the ordinary fans, will know that they come with the caveat “Attained whilst continuously cheating and with the Scottish Football Authorities fully aware”

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Tif FinnPosted on4:48 pm - Dec 14, 2013


There is no doubt that Rangers totally dominated the SFL3 as was, and are currently dominating the SPFL1.

That is fair enough and you can genuinely only beat the teams you are up against.

However they are doing this whilst spending around £1m a month which they are not earning. Or around £12m a year they simply cannot afford.

This is no different to what the old team did in the SPL. Which just demonstrates the point with regard the business model being just the same as before, totally unsustainable.

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redlichtiePosted on5:11 pm - Dec 14, 2013


andy says: (276)
December 13, 2013 at 4:56 pm
Minutes from VB / Stockbridge meeting
http://www.*************.co.uk/minut…ockbridge.html
************* Admin have decided to publish the minutes from our delegates’ meeting with Rangers Financial Director Brian Stockbridge…….
Walter Smith
Email on Charlottes Fakes was doctored to suit. Mr. Stockbridge and Walter Smith corresponded on the phone where Mr. Smith agreed that he’d be taking on the Chairman role full time. Mr. Stockbridge has tried to get Charlotte Fakes shut down by contacting Twitter, however a new account appears just as soon as the previous one is deleted. Mr. Stockbridge says he doesn’t know who it is.

====================================================================
I was interested to note this exchange buried in the ‘minutes’.

There have been concerns in the past that some documents might have been doctored but I don’t recall seeing any evidence to this end.

Is what Mr BS (©) says true Charlotte? Are you able to defend your honour?

Scottish Football could do with a nice injection of new CF material before the AGM.

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ianagainPosted on5:20 pm - Dec 14, 2013


nickmcguinness says: (148)

December 14, 2013 at 2:02 am

I continue to be mystified why there should be any “mystery” about the “mystery shareholders” behind Blue Pitch Holdings and Margarita Trust, who appear to hold a controlling interest over the affairs of TRFC. The investors that Malcolm Murray called “Arabs” who like to be “secretive”.
===========================================================

Nick

A definite “chapeaux” for that.

I’m sure our Lebanese friend ( and spiv) will be contacting lawyers various in being described as an Arab by a failed Scots chancer. Thanks MM non leccy bill payer and lier another howler and yet another key insight into your NON suitability to run anything.
I really hope your elected.

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saskya1888Posted on5:34 pm - Dec 14, 2013



Remember this???? I’m sure this is how most “bear’s” should be feeling…….

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SmugasPosted on5:40 pm - Dec 14, 2013


Tif

To be fair they could afford it. They (the rangers group) had 22m which they could burn if they wanted to. There is absolutely no reason I can think of why it was beneficial for them to do so other than flying a kite to support a myth though. A myth, with, at time of writing and from a footballing perspective, has no end game.

No concern of mine as long as its their own money. Should be concern to SFA though. And, most interestingly, early sale of STs won’t fix it.

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Tif FinnPosted on5:48 pm - Dec 14, 2013


I know what you mean by the Rangers Group and the point is well made, however I was talking about the football club.

The club could not afford it, they have had to borrow it from their holding company. The holding company raised the money from it’s floatation on the stock exchange. It is entirely possible that there is little or none of that money left, however they do have a massive debtor.

Unfortunately that debtor is unlikely to be able to pay the money back, so will have to either raise funds elsewhere or pay in some other way.

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Tif FinnPosted on5:51 pm - Dec 14, 2013


And also, it is difficult to see how doing what they did (the PLC’s board) was in the best interests of it’s shareholders, all of them.

The prospectus they used to sell the shares was a disgrace. The way they used the money when they got it was a disgrace. The whole thing has been a disgrace.

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ianagainPosted on6:01 pm - Dec 14, 2013


Confusion from Rangers Rumours
Redoutable George(he of the red card thing) is now for him (was he taken to the garage for a wee talk?) but look at the rest.
Still no consensus
Shambles.

———————————————————-

14 Dec 2013 05:05:59
I don’t know how many bears have ever listened to anything either of the Easdales have said? I hadn’t till this morning.

Went on STV site and listened to the Sandy Easdale interview and I have to say the guy really impressed me. He is comfortable with the camera and seems reasonably thoughtful. He certainly is less petty than the likes of PM.

He answered virtually all, including some pretty difficult questions regarding our finances and the actions of past and the current board.

I am not saying he is the answer but the guy has put his own money in, has lost money, is definately a fan and he is clearly quite a good businessman.

He impressed me.

If after the AGM they can resolve our financial losses and they can get some major investment I do not feel worried having him on the board.

If anything he seems open to others joining the board that can contribute. I would hope that AFTER the AGM this could mean that Mr King could be brought on board.

I have been moving towards a compromise board myself recently. From the current board;

Wallace, Easdale and Somer/Chrichton

From new proposed;

Murdoch and Wilson with possible olive branch offered to Mr King instead of PM, I cannot see PM’s past and the conflict with current board helping his chances. The same applies to M Murray. Easdales argument that MM was the Chairman of the board during the financial mismanagement is a fair and strong one.

Overall the guy comes over as calm, intelligent and defiately a fan putting his money in not for profit but love of club. Something I lament that Mr McColl and Co have not appeared to learn from.

I would have more faith in them if they were putting their own money in, for me it is a no brainer if you really care about Rangers FC

What do my fellow bears think? Have any of you watched this interview?

george

george

1.) George are you feeling ok this post is actually quite good and senseable. No name calling no crazy accusations just a straight forward post looking at things logically lol. Yes I must agree with you quite like easdales don’t want mcoll or the murrays as they don’t want to invest there own cash. But definitely would like to see king on the board. George with a post like this I can almost forget all your crazy rants. Now all you need to do is confess your love for ally and all is forgiving lol come on George you can do it.

Pat the ranger

2.) I really don’t think the people in power want Dave King on board at all and I can’t see any of the gang of 4 getting on the board. Haven’t seen the interview yet so can’t comment but I think that Stockbridge may be the only casualty at the AGM

Stewie

3.) As you say George he handled interview well, thing that got me, when asked if certain people were still involved with the club he said they were no longer involved in the running of the club why not say no longer involved full stop
r. f

r.f

4.) George, have you had a bang on the head? Hope you are ok
Seriously, you seem to have had a change in your attitude lately and it is a good change,
We all need to look for the positives in our current situation and there are many
After the AGM we need to look forward, not back
I still think WATP and we always will be, now bring on the stenhousemuir and the next step on our journey

JG

JG.

5.) I have had a look at the clip and to be honest Mr Easdale does not inspire me as someone who has control of ~27% of Rangers voting rights. We should ask ourselves why Blue Pitch Holdings and Margiureta are effectively using this guy as their puppet. There must be some arrangement between them which is not currently transparent. Why

These institutional investers are asking a guy whose main business returns a profit of £500k PA to be their spokesmen. A piece of the story is missing and there was no inclination to be upfront in the interview.

I would give Mr Easdale the respect of having his say as he has invested his families or his companies money in something that is not currently investable. The quick buck opportunity has passed and all of the IPO investers have been sold a pup.

Like George, I think the reality is that post AGM the board will be a combination of the current board and Requisitioners which is inevitable.

As long as Stockbridge is removed I would accept a board of

Wallace CEO (and Interim Chairman)
Chrichton
Easdale
P Murray
Murdoch
Wilson

After the AGM ask Dave King to join the board as Chairman

If Stockbridge survives and none of the requisitioners get on then it is down to the fans again after this to force change or we will be revisiting recent history in the near future

MOLS

6.) Are you serious George? What has happened to your resolve. It wasn’t exactly a Paxman interview was it. Easedale’s association with those who have shafted the club, their own paltry investment, & their silence until now should be a cause for concern. Please can we stop jumping on any passing bandwagon just because ot is fronted by a semi literate “gers man”. Enough is enough. Get them all out. P. s McCoist hedging his bets again. Has this guy no shame. Ew

Eurowoogle1

7.) I have said before Stockbridge has to walk to give the board any crediblity a question mark must remain over Somers but I could live with the rest of the board for the next six months to see what they can deliver but still be hoping someone the fans can trust be put in place as an overseer.

briblue

8.) George
im sorry but don’t want any of the pass the parcel brigade at the club, were you watching the same interview george

Les

9.) @5 totally agree with your post. Mr Easdale did not impress me in the slightest. How people could not be concerned at the significant pauses when he asked about the continued influence of Green and Ahmed. He completely lacked any gravitas or presence. I cannot disagree with the make up of your board either. Looks a good compromise and although I know nothing about Mr Murdoch or Mr Wilson 3 “new” directors should ensure the transparency and clarity the majority of fans seek and after forensic examination by Mr Blin or his equivalent then the doubters like us will have to shut up and fully support the board and the club if nothing amiss is uncovered.

Nbear

10.) 14 Dec 2013 15:23:32
not one person inside ibrox doing an interview could say they can put their mortgage on whyte, green, ahmed or any other shady barsteward not having anything to do with rangers, easdales may say they don’t have anything to do with the ” day to day running of the club”. what about the future of the club?
why does mr big easdale wait till now 5 days before the agm to come out and speak?
these 2 guys could not wait to get on tv when they first got shares, they even had the brass neck to do a tv interview on the back of one of their bussess lol, 2 rubbish talking puppets being told when and not when to speak
this is my opinion and my opinion only these 2 guys are from a very crooked background and the way they monopolies the transport of the good people of greenock is disgusting nothing short of extortion in my opinion,
i will never trust them
who brought them to the table, MR C FKN GREEN

jammydodger

11.) When will anyone ask the question who is behind Blue Pitch & Margarita Holdings? Is everyone on here so gullible that when one of the Bus brothers finally speaks out, you forget he only did the interview because it is the AGM this week.

What investors voting rights does he control? Who owns those shares?. silence

Classic ” tugging at the heart strings” of Rangers fans. Claiming the Club could go under if we don’t buy ST, merchandise & hospitality.

What Easdale really means is that if the fans don’t continue to empty their pockets, then the SPIVS and Ally will have to get off the gravy train.

Ayr Bear

12.) 14 Dec 2013 16:57:28
Agree about Paul and Malcolm Murray.

And while I’m at it, can anybody tell me why MM can’t reveal who is behind Blue Pitch and Margarita?

Are we actually supposed to believe he doesn’t know?

As for Ally’s latest words on the AGM, well he really does beggar belief, bet he won’t reveal where his vote goes until afterwards when he tells the press he voted for whoever wins.

Thought you liked transparency Ally?

Naz
.

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davythelotionPosted on6:29 pm - Dec 14, 2013


ianagain says: (58)
December 14, 2013 at 6:01 pm

££££££££
It would appear that George has had a tete-a-tete down the depot and has had the future business plan explained to him in great detail. The alternative, involving Swarfega and a King Dick spanner, appears to have nudged George back on message.

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SmugasPosted on6:34 pm - Dec 14, 2013


Tif,

Hence my point ( with a tongue in cheek nod to the fact that deliberately blowing shareholders money isn’t usually theft as such, doing it with bank debt usually is).

No from a footballing perspective I just can’t see how they’ve benefitted from a “we’re big and we know we are” strategy. Possibly at the moment, the old beat them in the tunnel approach, but that won’t last another 18 months without, well then we’re back to the first bit aren’t we. All the pizazz just to convince the bears? Seriously?

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helpmaboabPosted on7:10 pm - Dec 14, 2013


Ianagain@6:01
Jesus this lot are easily distracted and it doesn’t need to be a shiny object.(copyright acknowledged)
You could stick Bungle and Zippy up and they’d endorse them. There really is no hope for that lot.

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Tif FinnPosted on7:16 pm - Dec 14, 2013


From the perspective of costs, they were really between a rock and a hard place for some of those because of Green.

He absolutely insisted that TUPE applied, and as such the players must all take out new contracts with the new club. That was with the clear intention of selling them and making a lot of money in transfer fees. Even in a fire sale he could have made more money than they actually paid for the assets of the old club.

However as there was a breach in contract because of the liquidation, the old employer did not exist, the players simply walked away for nothing and their registrations reverted to the association. To then be passed to whatever club they signed a new contract with. Meaning the players could write their own ticket. TUPE is there for the most part to protect the employee and they can choose not to take a contract with a new employer.

The problem with that was that once he had gone down that line it meant that everyone else was entitled to take advantage of TUPE and he could hardly fight it. Meaning that all employees, including highly paid footballers (and management) were entitled to the same terms and conditions. It was not their fault that the new club had to start in the lowest league, or that the new club had to price seats accordingly.

Why they brought in other players, of way too high a standard for the league they were in, and on wages way too high to be supported by turnover is a mystery. Unless they thought ticket sales and the IPO would fail without them. They felt they had to keep an illusion going. I suppose short term that did not make much difference to Green. He was in it for short term profit and a viable business going forward really didn’t matter.

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wottpiPosted on9:55 pm - Dec 14, 2013


Best comment of the day came from the Stenny vice chair on Sportsound when asked if the lost
gate money from the postponed T’Rangers game gave them any problems especially at this time of year. The reply was along the lines of – Naw, we run a tight ship and don’ t rely on Rangers being in this league to operate the club.

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Kilgore TroutPosted on10:08 pm - Dec 14, 2013


wottpi @ 9:55

The ignorance betrayed by that question is really quite breathtaking.
Whoever asked it should feel embarrassed. So should whoever employs them.

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upthehoopsPosted on10:14 pm - Dec 14, 2013


Danish Pastry says: (1797)
December 13, 2013 at 11:37 pm
==============================
Please forgive my cynicism, but I do not believe those questions would have been asked if the all round good guys, ‘real’ Rangers men were not in the background. The Scottish media have always tended to side with the club in any Rangers dispute, be that with a player, or another club. Although it’s different this time, the media seem to view the requistioners as some kind of ousted monarchy waiting to take their rightful place once the dictators are overthrown. They see them as the club in waiting.

When any of the requisitioners is asked the same level of questions, including being asked about their personal finances, I will take the media seriously. Right now it is hard to escape the notion they are simply lining themselves up behind who they believe are the good guys.

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Tif FinnPosted on10:20 pm - Dec 14, 2013


The ignorance demonstrated by the question is only surpassed by it’s condescension.

Or are they still trying to paint this picture that Scottish football is totally reliant on the money the clubs receive when the Rangers fans visit their grounds.

How many of them have actually been liquidated in the last few years. Well none actually, because if they were they wouldn’t exist any more.

A better question would be how many of them were created in the last few years. My money is on none, other than Rangers themselves.

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Tif FinnPosted on10:27 pm - Dec 14, 2013


Is there an issue with Mark (Grandmaster Suck) Dingwall. What has the wee imp been up to this time.

http://news.stv.tv/west-central/256830-rangers-supporters-trust-suspend-spokesperson-over-improper-conduct/

Rangers Supporters Trust ‘suspend spokesman over improper conduct’

The Rangers Supporters Trust says it has suspended its spokesman Mark Dingwall over allegations of improper conduct.

The former head of the group, who has denied the allegations, will have his future decided at a meeting next week.

The Trust holds the largest membership of any Rangers supporters group and also holds the largest shareholding of any collective supporters group.

The group will, it is understood, ask Mr Dingwall to resign his position at the forthcoming meeting.

Mr Dingwall is currently serving a three-week suspension, pending an investigation into allegations of improper conduct, according to the Rangers Supporters Trust.

STV understands the complaint against him has been withdrawn as the complainant resigned from the board of the Trust.

However, remaining board members are concerned about the accusations of improper conduct and will ask Mr Dingwall to resign.

In response to the allegations, Mr Dingwall said: “It would not be appropriate to comment at this time. The matter will be discussed at the Rangers Supporters Trust’s next meeting.”

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justshateredPosted on10:54 pm - Dec 14, 2013


upthehoops says: (722)
December 14, 2013 at 10:14 pm

It is the question no one dare ask:
How will you fund a £10M annual shortfall?
This is the question that should be asked again and again and again until there is a satisfactory answer.

The requisitioners (doesn’t that strike you as some kind of bizarre cult) speak about having finance in place to back there scheme but never a mention of actually buying the club. To put you plans into action you have to own it first. This isn’t a coo where you simply walk in and oust those in charge. No you need to PURCHASE the club/company/whatever the hell it is today.

This business has AT LEAST another TWO seasons making this level of loses. Actually THREE when you consider that they will have to play one season in the top league before the SFA can guarantee them (and I seriously mean that) Champions League money. So another three years making a £10M loss so that will be above the level of debt that strangled the life out of the old entity.
Oh and I forgot this is before, whoever is in charge, have to pander to the demands of the support to “spend the war chest’ on multi million pound buys of new players with ever higher wages. I’m also sure that there will be a bonus for every player on promotion to the higher leagues not to mention the coaching staff.
Since I’m on that subject. Can anyone envisage an offer to give up a percentage of their wages NOT being implemented three months after you requested it. Strange but true.

Meanwhile opposition chairmen are asked if THEY can survive a game against ‘The Rangers’ being cancelled. The breath taking arrogance of the Scottish media really knows no bounds. They will ask no questions concerning the finance of a club that everyone can clearly see is approaching a financial crisis and, unless they have found access to cash that more successful clubs haven’t, then there is no solution. They have no access to a credit line SO WHERE IS THE MONEY GOING TO COME FROM?
Come on media do your job ask the question and keep asking until there is an answer that satisfies, not only the shareholders of RIFC, but the rest of the fans of the sport in Scotland.
Have they gained access to King Solomons mine?
I doubt it!
Have they managed to tunnel into Gringots bank from the Harry Potter films?
I doubt that as well so where is the cash coming from.

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Tif FinnPosted on11:16 pm - Dec 14, 2013


Indeed, which must raise going concerns issues with the Scottish football authorities and put any licence in question.

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martin cPosted on12:42 am - Dec 15, 2013


tx paulsatim

and so to bed

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ptd1978Posted on1:19 am - Dec 15, 2013


Is administration a realistic possibility for the new Rangers?

For a company with a regular credit line, administration is a reasonable option when the money runs out, but only because they have debts. As things stand RIFC group is going to run out of cash early next year and TRFC never had any. All the debts are internal, so there aren’t any really debts to shed until the cash is gone.
Moreover, even if RIFC did put TRFC into admin to sever Ibrox and MP from “the club”, an administration (even with a tame administrator) isn’t cheap. The money to keep the business going through such an admin probably isn’t there even now and the fans showed last time that they wont bridge the gap.
The directors have publicly acknowledged the money situation and deliberately taking the company into a position of trading while insolvent would be a dangerous thing to do for their own reputations. Unless they have a sugar daddy or a buyer lined up already a prudent finance director would be at least familiarising himself with the process for winding the business up.

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davythelotionPosted on4:30 am - Dec 15, 2013


ptd1978 says: (112)
December 15, 2013 at 1:19 am
%%%%%%
Another factor which requires to be considered is the unrealistic expectations of supporters coupled with a media fed belief that spending big equals success. For example, apparently Celtic would not have been handed their chuff at the Nou Camp if they had only splashed £6m on a proven striker.
In order to achieve break even ( a distant dream for most teams in the EPL, let alone Scotland), a club would have to invest in young, unknown potential in the hope that these players will move on to other cubs for big money. Andy Carroll was sold to LFC from NUFC for £35m, LFC had punted Torres to Chelsea for £50m. Carroll was subsequently shifted to West Ham on loan for £2m and West Ham signed him permanently in Jun 13 for a fee of £15m, his contract is for six years. His weekly wage is £80 000.(£4.1m per year), he is yet to kick a ball in anger for the Hammers. West Ham’s outlay on Andy Carroll will be close to £45m (based on his 6 year contract plus transfer fees).
The Carroll situation illustrates the dangers of speculating on even ‘proven’ scorers. As previously posted, Stenhousmuir are living within their means, much to the befuddlement of the average sports hack. If nothing else is learned from SDM’s disastrous involvement in Sottish football, the lesson of living within your own means should be carved on the boardroom table of every club in the leagues,
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25374672

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StevieBCPosted on5:06 am - Dec 15, 2013


Not a fan of Tom English : he has the propensity to write a decent, accurate / truthful article – occasionally – but it’s slipped in between an abundance of succulent lamb-grade, PR-type copy.

To be fair, today he has a ‘relatively reasonable’ piece which is worth a mention if only because it contains a rare MSM reference to the disgraced (S)DM.
============================================

“…In February, David Murray’s dismissal of Lord Nimmo Smith’s commission as a witch hunt and a futile waste of time, effort and money was the brazen act of a seemingly unembarrassable man. Nimmo Smith’s report was condemnatory of Murray’s Rangers and their breaches of the SPL rulebook on deliberate non-disclosure of payments. The old board, the verdict stated, “bear a heavy responsibility” for the offences. Throughout the Rangers story you have characters who have sought – and still seek – to rewrite history and change the narrative but Murray’s was one of the most shameless attempts…”

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spfl-lower-divisions/rangers-boardroom-contenders-gear-up-for-agm-fight-1-3233870

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Carfins FinestPosted on9:17 am - Dec 15, 2013


wottpi says: (1325)
December 14, 2013 at 9:55 pm
Best comment of the day came from the Stenny vice chair on Sportsound when asked if the lost
gate money from the postponed T’Rangers game gave them any problems especially at this time of year. The reply was along the lines of – Naw, we run a tight ship and don’ t rely on Rangers being in this league to operate the club.
——————————————————————–
WOTTPI……………If the MSM would take the time away from drooling over all things Sevco and look around the game overall in Scotland they may well get a little surprise. Clubs like Aberdeen, Dundee United, ICT, Motherwell, St Johnston all delivering good performances and entertainment for their fans on a weekly basis. All showing signs of bringing more supporters back to the game. Even the SPFL Clubs in the bottom 6 at the moment have shown growth with the exception of one or two noteable Clubs. Look into the Premiership (If that is what the first division is now called) and we can see stability for most Clubs and even growth in one or two others as well as providing another exciting division for the fans to enjoy. The division below that however is not so competative.

There is only one team within our league set up that depends on the cash from the mob that follows the Govan Team. Thats themselves. And even that is not enough. Handouts are still being sought, the begging bowl is always on display and the words ‘Re Investment’ are now used in such a matter of fact way that the reality of their meaning seems to be completely lost on the poor souls of Govan.

So MSM. Open your eyes. See the bigger picture. Maybe even join in the regeneration of the sport in Scotland instead of belittleing it at every turn. Who knows we could maybe even get the SFA to start helping around the place.

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upthehoopsPosted on9:28 am - Dec 15, 2013


StevieBC says: (945)
December 15, 2013 at 5:06 am
============================
It was also good to hear Graham Spiers calling out Kieth Jackson Sportsound Extra last night over his Paul Murray coverage. Spiers exposed as a sham Murray’s claim, often repeated by Jackson, that the old Rangers debt halved during his time on the board, pointing out audited accounts show it reduced by just £2M over the period Murray was on the board. Part of Jackson’s retort was accusing Spiers of sticking up for the Green Brigade! Jackson simply doesn’t belong on the BBC who (at least at face value) are not supposed to represent vested interests such as those held by pundits as openly biased as Jackson is.

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TartanwulverPosted on9:44 am - Dec 15, 2013


From the footballisfixed blog

“Football has taken over from religion – everybody is ‘Something FC ’til I Die’.
And we don’t want our New Deity to be killed off just yet.”

That’s pretty accurate for a lot of people, and I used to think that way myself. It explains why a club can be seen by supporters not to have died, no matter if it has been extinguished in all legal and practical terms, because it exists in the supporter’s heart and mind until he or she dies.

That mindset provides the fertile soil for those who seek to profit, in terms of money, prestige or power from the endless willingness of the devoted supporter to delude themselves at critical moments. Rangers are only the most blatant example in football at present (Follow, Follow, like sheep, like sheep). But that ‘Something FC ’til I Die’ mindset is dangerous one at the present time for supporters of any club, because the vultures will be seeking new opportunities where they can find them.

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upthehoopsPosted on9:50 am - Dec 15, 2013


davythelotion says: (280)
December 15, 2013 at 4:30 am
==============================
I must admit the MSM attitude to clubs living within their means is baffling at best, and downright sh*te stirring at worst.

As a Celtic fan it has frustrated the hell out of me that the club living within its means has at times been something to be ridiculed, rather than praised. This was especially prevalent during the periods the old Rangers were spending way beyond what they had, either via a bank handout, or money that was stolen from the public purse. Yet after Celtic’s defeat in Barcelona the media are at it again, with their back of a fag packet accountancy techniques. These people know nothing about Celtic’s finances and current commitments, at least nothing they seek to actually understand, or should I say actually want to understand. I have to laugh when the example of Jelavic signing for Rangers is thrown in Celtic’s faces as an example of what could be achieved. Jelavic played in two European ties for Rangers, scored one goal, and in each tie they exited a tournament. It is a matter of record that Rangers still owed money for him when they liquidated, yet it is somehow seen as something to rub Celtic’s noses in.

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Tif FinnPosted on10:16 am - Dec 15, 2013


Am I not right in saying that Jelavic went to Rangers for around £4m and was sold for around £5m.

With Rangers still owing Vienna money when they were liquidated.

Hardly great business.

He does seem to understand that it was the club who died though

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/ex-rangers-star-nikica-jelavic-it-breaks-1129044

Jelavic told Record Sport: “Things have been great for me since I signed for Everton but I do have a lot of sympathy for the guys at Rangers. I can’t actually believe what has happened to the club since I left.

“I still speak to some of the players there so I know what is going on and I know how difficult it has been for them.

“It’s incredible – how can a club like Rangers get into this state?

“They can’t go into liquidation, can they? That’s just not possible. It would be a disaster and I can’t imagine what Scottish football would be like without them.

“It is so sad to see. I love that club and I love the supporters. A club as big as this should not be in such a terrible state.”

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neepheidPosted on10:23 am - Dec 15, 2013


upthehoops says: (724)
December 15, 2013 at 9:50 am

Yet after Celtic’s defeat in Barcelona the media are at it again, with their back of a fag packet accountancy techniques. These people know nothing about Celtic’s finances and current commitments, at least nothing they seek to actually understand, or should I say actually want to understand.
=======================
And haven’t the Scottish sport journalists repeatedly excused their sub-abysmal coverage of the Ibrox train crash over the last 2 years by saying that they couldn’t be expected to know anything about business or financial matters? Yet now we have a whole bunch of instant experts. Makes it clear exactly where the Scottish MSM are coming from on Rangers/Celtic issues, doesn’t it. Small wonder these rags are heading down the pan fast.

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m.c.f.c.Posted on10:31 am - Dec 15, 2013


justshatered says: (272)
December 14, 2013 at 10:54 pm

They have no access to a credit line SO WHERE IS THE MONEY GOING TO COME FROM?

—————————————————————————————————————————-

Excellent post for a rational football fan. But ……

the spivs just don’t care – they want money OUT in the next six months and what happens to the football is of sod all interest.

the Gang of Four just want the old Rangers “Spend for Supremacy” model back and just know that a messiah (billionaire) will be along any day now.

And of course the SMSM who are too lazy and too stupid to write about anything but the Old Firm are the real zombies of the story

It’s going to take one hell of a plot twist for this one to have a feel-good ending.

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theoldshedPosted on10:32 am - Dec 15, 2013


Tartanwulver says: (469)
“Football has taken over from religion – everybody is ‘Something FC ’til I Die’.
————————————

The birth and ongoing nurturing of the Sevco Myth bears a close resemblance to the case studies on the creation of modern day religious cults in Richard Dawkins’ The God Delusion. The case studies also involve a gullible mob being told what they want to hear, charismatic leaders who feed off the cult members, and reliance on explicit or implicit threats of violence to anyone who dares to question, or shed light on, the cult’s twisted perception of reality.

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jimlarkinPosted on10:51 am - Dec 15, 2013


Rangers manager Ally McCoist is worried about continued unrest among fans after the club’s key annual general meeting on Thursday. (Sunday Mail)

…………..

FFS

Is it the ”club’s” AGM !

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Tif FinnPosted on10:53 am - Dec 15, 2013


The problem with being a billionaire plaything is that the books don’t balance without them, and that falls foul of the new financial fair play rules.

It is exactly that type of “buy success” mentality they are being introduced to fight against.

There is also the issue of problems arising when said billionaire either has their own financial issues, or simply gets bored with their toy.

The only long term solution is clubs which are self sustaining.

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davythelotionPosted on10:56 am - Dec 15, 2013


upthehoops says: (724)
December 15, 2013 at 9:50 am
&&&&
I remember an article written by Gerry McNee about Charlie Miller receiving a signing on fee (from youth to first team) of £35000. McNee’s point, in common with most other hacks, was that Fergus McCann should try to match the spending plans at Ibrox rather than maintain a responsible fiscal outlook. The rest is history.
The myth, that somewhere out there a billionaire is just itching to burn some cash on a football team, is supported by the Scottish media unquestioningly. The fans are about to get gubbed again in yet another cash call and still no one is asking Ally about his pay cut!

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jimlarkinPosted on10:57 am - Dec 15, 2013


http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/article-2521621/The-22m-football-bet-Hedge-fund-guru-Crispin-Odey-shorts-Manchester-United-shares.html

. . . Maybe there’s a lot of it about . . . .?

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Tif FinnPosted on11:04 am - Dec 15, 2013


From follow follow

“If only Malcolm Murray was a billionaire we wouldn’t even be having these discussions”

I kid you not.

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davythelotionPosted on11:21 am - Dec 15, 2013


Tif Finn says: (1012)
December 15, 2013 at 11:04 am
0 1 Rate This

From follow follow

“If only Malcolm Murray was a billionaire we wouldn’t even be having these discussions”

I kid you not.
££££££
As Corrie’s Roy Croppers’ mum said: ‘…if ‘ifs’ and ‘buts’ were whisky and nuts, we’d all have a merry Christmas!’

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upthehoopsPosted on12:52 pm - Dec 15, 2013


davythelotion says: (282)
December 15, 2013 at 10:56 am
==============================
If there was a billionaire out there willing to thrown money at Ibrox liquidation would never have happened. Billionaire’s don’t get there by throwing good money after bad. Even the Chelsea & Man City backers only provide loans, sponsorship, debt for equity etc.

A straightforward question for me is, is there actually a genuine billionaire out there who supports Rangers? McColl’s so called billionaire status appeared at the stoke of a succulent lamb eaters keyboard to try and boost his credibility, but there is no evidence he is a genuine billionaire. Celtic have two billionaires holding shares, one who is a major investor. The fact the club is managed the way it is tells us everything we need to know about their business strategy.

The Ibrox fanbase really do need to wake up and smell the coffee. Should a second insolvency event happen, what price them still seeing it as an opportunity for someone to come in and splash the cash like there is no tomorrow?

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erniePosted on1:57 pm - Dec 15, 2013


Upthehoops asks:
A straightforward question for me is, is there actually a genuine billionaire out there who supports Rangers?
==============================
It’s worse than that; is there a genuine billionaire out there who supports Rangers and,
1. Is willing to go against his/her business common sense and lob a fortune down a hole?
2. Is willing to buy in to or even be part of the WATP Rangerness that is required for the job?

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Tif FinnPosted on2:07 pm - Dec 15, 2013


I am not suggesting that he either is or isn’t a fan of Rangers however they do have at least on billionaire shareholder.

Forbes estimate Mike Ashley’s wealth to be around $3.5B (£2.15B)

That is roughly double what they estimate Dermot Desmond to be worth.

However Denis O’Brian is estimated to be worth $5.2B (£3.19B)

It’s all pretty meaningless though, as Celtic’s business model is to be self sustaining.

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upthehoopsPosted on3:13 pm - Dec 15, 2013


Tif Finn says: (1013)
December 15, 2013 at 2:07 pm

It’s all pretty meaningless though, as Celtic’s business model is to be self sustaining.
==============================
That’s it in a nutshell, and the bit that so many fans of the Ibrox club find so impossible to grasp. Short of being self sustaining there are two options

1. They will be asked to buy into a share issue every 12-24 months
2. Their club will find a financial institution daft enough to lend heavily to them

Neither is feasible, yet the notion of the Ibrox club living within their means is as appealing to them as a cross is to a vampire.

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Reilly1926Posted on3:29 pm - Dec 15, 2013


upthehoops says: (726)

December 15, 2013 at 9:28 am

StevieBC says: (945)
December 15, 2013 at 5:06 am
============================
It was also good to hear Graham Spiers calling out Kieth Jackson Sportsound Extra last night over his Paul Murray coverage. Spiers exposed as a sham Murray’s claim, often repeated by Jackson, that the old Rangers debt halved during his time on the board, pointing out audited accounts show it reduced by just £2M over the period Murray was on the board. Part of Jackson’s retort was accusing Spiers of sticking up for the Green Brigade! Jackson simply doesn’t belong on the BBC who (at least at face value) are not supposed to represent vested interests such as those held by pundits as openly biased as Jackson is.
==================
I couldn’t believe my lugs when I heard Jackson’s response to Spiers’ rather accurate assessment of Paul Murray’s previous years at RFC(IL). At best infantile. It reminded me a bit of this:

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Tif FinnPosted on3:52 pm - Dec 15, 2013


It seems there is little or no diminution of the arrogance over at follow follow.

In a Thread entitled – ” Fast forward to July 2015 and we are about to take our place back at the top table”

==================================================================

We have a choice about who takes us there and that choice will be made on Thursday

Its a fight between people driven by money who have “proclaimed” their love of Rangers and people who we know actually support Rangers .

Its not always the supporters who will be able to do the best for Rangers but they can be all but guaranteed not to deliberately do the worst for them .

People who love money love only money , we are merely a vehicle for them to make more . That includes our home , Ibrox .

If you have a vote at the AGM then use it in the right way , those fighting for the spivs and charlatans are misguided in the extreme and have in the past thrown their weight behind the google eyed bastard who took us down this road .

Our future is at stake in ways that scare the crap out of ordinary people like me

===================================================

So everything is fine really, there are no particular financial issues and they will be “back at the top table” in the shortest time possible.

So much for the clubs who will be in the championship next year, you have no chance against the mighty Rangers. They will walk through you in the same way they have walked through the bottom two divisions. That’s the phenomenal team who needed Falkirk down to ten men for half an hour to beat them right at the death (in stoppage time) of a cup tie.

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Tif FinnPosted on3:56 pm - Dec 15, 2013


Re the fans buying into a share issue.

When they were asked to do that for the new club, when things were desperate to get things up and running, they came up with about £5m, that’s less than half of the current shortfall. It’s also about half of what was expected of them by the club.

Going to them every year to make up the difference is simply not going to work.

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davythelotionPosted on4:28 pm - Dec 15, 2013


Tif Finn says: (1015)
December 15, 2013 at 3:56 pm
%%%%%
Any future issue of shares would be a dilution of current shareholders value. Effectively, the mugs who bought at 70p will be asked to sacrifice their original investment plus stump up new cash. Ally’s okay though, he bought at 1p.

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Tif FinnPosted on4:44 pm - Dec 15, 2013


Do you think he even paid the £10,000.

FFS That’s over 3 days wages to him.

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Tif FinnPosted on5:01 pm - Dec 15, 2013


Oh the arrogance on gersnet is right up there with follow follow.

Talking about the deal with Puma to supply shirts, and it being OK because Rangers are a third tier team

===================================

We are but we will still sell the same shirts at the same price to the same fans!

Sadly Steve has just shown us the deal is for 5 years. Surely it cannot be a fixed contract given that in 3 years time we will once again be a Champions League team!

====================================

So this year win the first division

Next year win the Championship.

Then the Premiership.

Then simply qualify for the Champions League.

No worries.

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davythelotionPosted on5:58 pm - Dec 15, 2013


Tif Finn says: (1017)
December 15, 2013 at 5:01 pm
eBay offer of surplus official gear for £6000, says it all!!!

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Danish PastryPosted on6:10 pm - Dec 15, 2013


Will this news really worry the fans? Seems like a reason to keep the current board.

Malcolm Murray fears for Ally McCoist’s job

Former Rangers chairman Malcolm Murray has said that Ally McCoist’s job may be under threat if the current regime remains. Murray, leading a group seeking representation on the Rangers board ahead of the club’s long-awaited agm this week, says the current board may also sell Lee Wallace in the January transfer window to balance the books as finance director Brian Stockbridge stoked fears that the club may only have £1 million left in the bank come April.

Murray said: “We have a solution, new enquiry from rich businessmen who are household names. They will provide the future investment if there’s a board that has full transparency. The alternative to this is debt or player sales. I don’t believe that our blue chip investors will support the incumbent board, therefore I fear for our best players. I also fear for the future of the manager. He is the only genuine Rangers man left, yet I know him not to be favoured by some among the current incumbents.” (Mail on Sunday)

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spfl/rumour-mill-rangers-pair-to-leave-celtic-1-3234113

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davythelotionPosted on7:04 pm - Dec 15, 2013


Danish Pastry says: (1799)
December 15, 2013 at 6:10 pm
££££££
The alternative to this is debt or player sales. I don’t believe that our blue chip investors will support the incumbent board, therefore I fear for our best players. I also fear for the future of the manager. He is the only genuine Rangers man left, yet I know him not to be favoured by some among the current incumbents.”
££££££
The alternative to the Blue Chips is debt? Were the Blue Knights aware of the Blue Chips when they didn’t invest in the IPO?
Were the Blue Chips still in the fryer when D&P dumped the assets for >£5m?
Ally’s going with the Blue Special Fish Suppers!

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martin cPosted on7:56 pm - Dec 15, 2013


re finance at spivco;

This is back of a fag packet stuff combined with not much education,

spivco needs cash for seasons 14/15 and 15/16, how much can be raised on 35 million shares. At today’s prices thats approx 12.25 million pounds (share price 35 pence).

So you need to find buyers for 35 million shares, THE FANS parted with 5 million pounds in ipo, not going to be a viable option, THE INSTITUTIONS have lost at least have the value of original ipo investment and some bought in for a pound a share!

My bet is a finance deal with z list financiers who lend spivco say 7 million pounds for 35 million shares and are taking a punt in trying to shift the shares and make their mark up before their profit is wiped out. Assuming that the share price continues to fall.

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DenPosted on8:21 pm - Dec 15, 2013


Tif Finn says: (1017)
December 15, 2013 at 3:56 pm

Re the fans buying into a share issue.

When they were asked to do that for the new club, when things were desperate to get things up and running, they came up with about £5m, ……………………………………………
========================================================================
Spot on.

The Rangers fans have not been forthcoming on the share issues and the idea that they will subscribe in numbers to future offers, even to the tune of £5m is extremely unlikely.

Even £5m per annum is not anywhere near enough to sustain them, far less build a team to compete in the Premier division. How much of the £5m would escape the grasp of the asset strippers?

No institution of any stature will subscribe to, or underwrite a future issue. Outside of the fan base, many subscribers to the IPO appear to have been given major sweeteners to subscribe, and they got control of the assets,

Given the dire financial prospects the only hope is a united and coordinated effort to turn things around but instead there are powerful factions indulging in a bitter Civil war.

The only way I see the current Rangers gettting near Celtic is if they unearth the profligate Billionaire who has ambitions to be a Millionaire; or Celtic make right mess of things. I am hoping that other sides can step up to challenge Celtic in time.

I think Scottish Football could have a bright future if the opportunity is taken to clean out the SFA and put people in place who want to run a fair and clean league.

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Bill1903Posted on8:27 pm - Dec 15, 2013


Been quiet on here this weekend

Lull before the storm maybe?? 😆

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Tic 6709Posted on8:39 pm - Dec 15, 2013


We’re all waiting for Armageddon Thursday.

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fergussingsthebluesPosted on8:45 pm - Dec 15, 2013


Den says:
December 15, 2013 at 8:21 pm

I think Scottish Football could have a bright future if the opportunity is taken to clean out the SFA and put people in place who want to run a fair and clean league.

====================================================

Well said Den!

I think the last 2 seasons have shown the top league has been fair and has actually been a clean breath of fresh air.

Aberdeen and Dundee Utd are beginning to look good, ICT and St Johnstone are coming along well and Motherwell aren’t too bad either. Hibs may also progress under Butcher, and hopefully St Mirren are turning the corner.

Unfotunately I can smell the Bad Breath from a team from the lower leagues creeping up to gatecrash the party and impose their rule again!

We don’t need them, they need us!

Same goes for the SFA!

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TSFMPosted on9:49 pm - Dec 15, 2013


Bill1903

Maybe the Christmas bottleneck is kicking in? 🙂
There is the obvious lack of Bryce to get het up abut as well. Despite his being placed into moderation, we have received no further input (aside from a rather snide one referring to censorship etc). The white noise that arises out of a clever troll like him does indeed push up the activity, but on the plus side, as things are, we should be able to pick out the important stuff a bit more easily.

Den

I agree with your point about the fans not having the money to fund another decade of overspending, but I’m not so sure about the institutions. I base that on the (as it turned out false) expectations that they would not pony up in the first IPO. I wouldn’t be so sure that there won’t be interest from that area.

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fergussingsthebluesPosted on9:57 pm - Dec 15, 2013


As for Thursday?

It doesn’t matter who wins, as both sides have brought shame on our National Game!

Aided and abetted by the SFA, SMSM and our very own beloved Clubs!

A complete and utter shambles of a Pantomime played out in full in front of the whole world!

These idiots are going into a Civil War on Thursday. Only they’re not idiots! Well one side isn’t!

That’s the side who’s personnel are going to walk away with loads of dosh. That’s their end game, and they seem to have it well and truly stitched up! Not one of them probably even a rangers supporter. BTW, Rangers supporters could easily have googled “Green” and “Sheffield United” to see what kind of saviour he really was!

What amazes me is that they have managed to achieve it right under the noses of our very own MSM, SFA, Police, Government, Judges, etc?

As I said, what a shambles!!!!

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paulsatimPosted on10:03 pm - Dec 15, 2013


TSFM says: (576)
December 15, 2013 at 9:49 pm

I agree with your point about the fans not having the money to fund another decade of overspending, but I’m not so sure about the institutions. I base that on the (as it turned out false) expectations that they would not pony up in the first IPO. I wouldn’t be so sure that there won’t be interest from that area.
===========================================
TSFM, did we ever get clarification that much of the IPO share purchases were made by promissory note? Would the “institutional” investors use them?

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ForresDeePosted on10:10 pm - Dec 15, 2013


fergussingstheblues says: (110)
December 15, 2013 at 9:57 pm

What amazes me is that they have managed to achieve it right under the noses of our very own MSM, SFA, Police, Government, Judges, etc?

=======================================

They didn’t ‘manage’ anything, they were ably assisted by them all; In order to prevent Armageddon and Civil Unrest.

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buddy_hollyPosted on10:16 pm - Dec 15, 2013


fergussingstheblues says: (110)
December 15, 2013 at 9:57 pm
0 0 Rate This

As for Thursday?

It doesn’t matter who wins, as both sides have brought shame on our National Game!

Aided and abetted by the SFA, SMSM and our very own beloved Clubs!

A complete and utter shambles of a Pantomime played out in full in front of the whole world!

These idiots are going into a Civil War on Thursday. Only they’re not idiots! Well one side isn’t!

That’s the side who’s personnel are going to walk away with loads of dosh. That’s their end game, and they seem to have it well and truly stitched up! Not one of them probably even a rangers supporter. BTW, Rangers supporters could easily have googled “Green” and “Sheffield United” to see what kind of saviour he really was!

What amazes me is that they have managed to achieve it right under the noses of our very own MSM, SFA, Police, Government, Judges, etc?

As I said, what a shambles!!!!

Agree with nearly all of this.

However, the MSM encouraged the mass hypnosis which permeates the OC/NC debate and the rewriting of history.

Ditto for the SFA who are a large part of the scandal.

Bizarrely, “The Police” have had little CRIMINAL activity since the sham of the failed CVA/asset transfer. What we are observing is CAPITALISM IN ACTION, which is not a crime in the UK.

The government of both the UK/Scotland has been quiet on this since february 14th 2013 (RFC Administration day!).

The judges have not done a lot wrong, in fact a UTT may well be more powerful to HMRC. The judges on the SFA/SPL commission were limited by the SFA/SPL remit given to them and the fact that no one was allowed to make the case in a propoer adversarial way about the “SPORTING ADVANTAGE gained by RFC (NIL) CHEATERY!!”

I do know what you mean though but fair is fair.

I would like many of the MSM, SFA, Police, Government, Judges to have been educated by this blog or to invite an advocate from this blog (maybe Auldheid/Hirstue Pursuit/Neepheid) to argue in an adversarial way on the behaviour we have witnessed in the last few years of RFC (NIL) and on the abhorrent behaviour of SEVCO.

To be honest I have no idea how we will not be sitting here in a years time with the same opinion.

I do despair for Scottish football.

Buddy

PS: I also despair for Scottish society.

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fergussingsthebluesPosted on10:57 pm - Dec 15, 2013


buddy_holly says: (104)
December 15, 2013 at 10:16 pm

fergussingstheblues says: (110)
December 15, 2013 at 9:57 pm

Agree with nearly all of this.

However, the MSM encouraged the mass hypnosis which permeates the OC/NC debate and the rewriting of history.

Ditto for the SFA who are a large part of the scandal.

Bizarrely, “The Police” have had little CRIMINAL activity since the sham of the failed CVA/asset transfer. What we are observing is CAPITALISM IN ACTION, which is not a crime in the UK.

The government of both the UK/Scotland has been quiet on this since february 14th 2013 (RFC Administration day!).

The judges have not done a lot wrong, in fact a UTT may well be more powerful to HMRC. The judges on the SFA/SPL commission were limited by the SFA/SPL remit given to them and the fact that no one was allowed to make the case in a propoer adversarial way about the “SPORTING ADVANTAGE gained by RFC (NIL) CHEATERY!!”

I do know what you mean though but fair is fair.

I would like many of the MSM, SFA, Police, Government, Judges to have been educated by this blog or to invite an advocate from this blog (maybe Auldheid/Hirstue Pursuit/Neepheid) to argue in an adversarial way on the behaviour we have witnessed in the last few years of RFC (NIL) and on the abhorrent behaviour of SEVCO.

To be honest I have no idea how we will not be sitting here in a years time with the same opinion.

I do despair for Scottish football.

Buddy

PS: I also despair for Scottish society.
===================================================
Sorry Buddy, I can’t remember mentioning the the OC/NC debate with regards the MSM in my post? That’s By the By! The MSM are severely tainted, and that is being borne out with their employers daily rag sales plumetting by the day as decent people can see through the propaganda.

Of course Capitalism in Action is NOT a crime in the UK, but try and explain that to your average bear who is sitting on the sidelines right now watching his/her beloved club being asset stripped, and at the same time being shafted emotionally.

Also, I very much doubt we will be sitting here in a years time with the same opinion. That’s because I don’t think this current mob are going to exist much longer, or if they do it will be at a very smaller and sustainable level.

They had a chance on 14th Feb 2012 to apologise and then try and redeem themselves with dignity. Instead they took the option that they were invincible, and their arrogance since then has been unbelievable!

Capitalism or not, Lawful or not, they have been utterly shameful!!!!!!!!!!!! but fair is fair! They haven’t done anything wrong!

BTW, If I was a Judge asked to adjudicate in an enquiry, but was then told what I could and could not “Judge” on, I would hope that my conscience would say “GTF”. Although, I bet it was a nice little earner for their pensions?

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davythelotionPosted on11:19 pm - Dec 15, 2013


My guess is that some of the present incumbents would actually welcome the bump from the board. Shares could then be punted under the ‘reluctant’ banner. If the requisitioning rebels, who caused the delay in the first place, win they can play the ‘it wisnae us’ card whilst at the same time announcing severe austerity, belt tightening and the sale/leaseback of property.
The burning question for the AGM should be ‘how can anyone make this business pay?’.
Everyone keeps talking about investing, the purpose of investing is to increase your original stake. There is no legal way that someone putting money in can expect to see money back. Unless…you buy an asset for way below the market value using a high interest short term loan. You split the asset into shares and divide them up, as follows: your best mates get them for 1p, your lender is guaranteed shares at £1 per share, you sell a tranche to supporters for 70p. The money the supporters invest goes to cover your ‘exceptional costs’, the remainder is used to pay bonuses, severance costs, the second highest wage bill in Scotland, PR and ‘hospitality’. At a pre-agreed point you sell your 1p shares and exit stage left, pursued by bears.
Of course the above could never happen under the watch of the finest, most dedicated, forensic, yet impartial press corp in the world.

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Galling fiverPosted on11:33 pm - Dec 15, 2013


That reminder earlier of how sevco will have burned more money by the time their imminent arrival comes, than the debt that was to prove terminal, should serve as a reminder that further assistance by the authorities is a certainty.
Tam Cowan on Saturday “only 35 fans responsible for the Motherwell fans group who said no to newco”. As I understood him, saying “no” was not representative of the general opinion, in his opinion. They are petty and ill informed, and I hope they have not been briefed about urgent jiggerypokery on the horizon by means of a revisit to the injustice served on sevco in comparison with totally different administration cases in England, pushed by outlets such as Bryce. Something’s cooking, and it’s gantin. Or am I still paranoid.

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