On the Old Club vs New Club (OCNC) debate, the SFA’s silence has been arguably the most damaging factor with respect to the future of the game. Of course people get frustrated when there is a deliberate policy of silence on the part of the SFA which results in the endless cycle of arguments being trotted out again and again with no resolution or closure possible.
The irony (it’s only irony if you assume that the SFA have gone to great lengths to create the conditions for the unbroken history status of the new club) is that the mealy-mouthed attitude they have adopted has actually polarised opinion in a far more serious and irreconcilable way than had they just made a clear statement when Sevco were handed SFA membership. A bit of leadership, with a decision either way at that time would have spiked a lot of OCNC guns very early on, but as history shows, they were afraid of a backlash from wherever it came.
I am now convinced that Scottish Football has passed the Event Horizon and is broken beyond the possibility of any repair that might have taken it back to its pre-2010 condition. Rangers fans will never – no matter what any eventual pronouncement from Hampden may be – accept that their next trophy will be their first. The trouble is that no-one else – again despite anything from Hampden – will cast them as anything else other than a new club who were given a free passage into the higher echelons of the game. Furthermore, they will forever force that down the throats of Rangers fans whenever and wherever they play. A recipe for discord, threats of violence, actual violence, and a general ramping up of the sectarian gas that we had all hoped, only a year or so ago, was to be set to an all-time low peep.
There is a saying in politics that we get the government we deserve. It works both ways though, and the SFA will get the audience it deserves. In actual fact it is the one it has actively sought over the last couple of years, for they have tacitly (and even perhaps explicitly) admitted that Scottish Football is a dish best served garnished with sectarianism. They have effectively told us that without it, the game cannot flourish, and they stick to that fallacy even although the empirical evidence of the past year indicates otherwise.
That belief is an intellectual black-hole they have now thrust the game into. They have effectively said that only two clubs actually matter in Scottish football. The crazy thing is that to put their plans into action they have successfully persuaded enough of the other clubs to jump into the chasm and hence vote themselves into irrelevance and permanent semi-obscurity.
That belief is also shared by the majority in the MSM, who despite their lofty, self-righteous and ostensibly anti-sectarian stance, have done everything they can to stir the hornet’s nest in the interests of greater sales.
Act as an unpaid wing of a PR company, check nothing, ask nothing, help to create unrest, and then tut-tut away indignantly like Monty Python Pepperpots when people take them to task.
Consequently the victims of all the wrongdoing (creditors and clubs) walk away without any redress or compensation for the loss of income and opportunity (and history) – stripped of any pride and dignity since they do so in the full knowledge of what has happened. But even as they wipe away the sand kicked in their faces, those clubs still insist on the loyalty of their own fanbases, the same fans whose trust they have betrayed with their meek acceptance of the new, old order.
The kinder interpretation of the impotence of the clubs is that they want to avoid the hassle and move on, the more cynical view that they are interested only in money, not people. In either case, sporting integrity, in the words of Lord Traynor of Winhall (Airdrie, not Vermont), is “crap”.
The question is; which constituency of 21st century Scotland subscribes to that 17th century paradigm?
Sadly, this massive hoax, this gigantic insult to our collective intelligence, is working. Many will leave the game – many already have in view of the spineless absence of intervention from their own clubs – but many, many more will stay and support the charade.
If you doubt my prediction, ask yourself how many tickets will be unsold the first time the New Rangers play Celtic at Parkhead? That my friends will be final imprimatur of authenticity on just exactly who New Rangers are, no matter the proclamations of both sides of the OCNC argument.
scottc says: (386)
December 18, 2013 at 4:14 pm
What is the actual rule in play here? I understood that each team was permitted to postpone ONE match in this manner but Celtic already did that when they played Liverpool at the start of the season.
——
One of the SPFL rules states that the SPFL may re-arrange any fixture at its discretion.
As for the SFA, good luck finding a copy of their rules or constitution!
Personally, I find the behaviour to be more akin to that in the most irreligious place on the planet, North Korea.
m.c.f.c. says: (52)
December 18, 2013 at 5:00 pm
isn’t it time for Celtic FC to assert its claim to be the most successful club in Scotland …
——
Aside from the fact that Aberdeen, having won two European trophies (including one which involved beating the European Cup Winners), are the most successful club in Scotland … 🙂 … I absolutely agree that it would be great fun if Celtic were to start making such claims.
Can you not persuade some of your famous banner-making chaps to come up with a display to that effect?
So to summarize m’lud. The club has the same name, the same stadium, the same strip, the same five stars, the same fans, the same website address, the same continuous history – but not the same debt or creditors. So it is our contention m’lud that it was not the club that was liquidated, but the debt and the creditors.
m.c.f.c. says: (53)
December 18, 2013 at 5:48 pm
6 0 Rate This
So to summarize m’lud. The club has the same name, the same stadium, the same strip, the same five stars, the same fans, the same website address, the same continuous history – but not the same debt or creditors. So it is our contention m’lud that it was not the club that was liquidated, but the debt and the creditors.
===========================================================
I see that neil alexander has a claim in for breach of contract.
Will the new club claim that it was an ”old” club debt ?
Torquemada says: (41)
December 18, 2013 at 5:09 pm
Dunno, the disciples rather remind me of the cult of onanism (sic) in the Diskworld novels…
Meantime enjoy the show, as the Urban Voltaire would have put it the he “situation is hopeless, but, not serious”….
Radio shortbread after 6
– got kenny macintyre, britney (technically it is a…) spiers , paul (the debt man/accountant) murray and A ”rangers” fan on to discuss
Company matters – even though it is a football programme !!
I thought the BBC had to make a clear distinction between the football club and the company?
So maybe tonight they will distinguish between the parent company, the company and the football team ?
Not bad for a programme that wouldn’t allow paul mcconville on to discuss sevco – rangers international and rangers 1872
Angus1983 says: (1298)
December 18, 2013 at 5:09 pm
Aside from the fact that Aberdeen, having won two European trophies (including one which involved beating the European Cup Winners), are the most successful club in Scotland … 🙂
——————————————————————————————————————————————
Angus – excuse my ignorance 🙂 I’m all for Aberdeen joining in the fun. Come to think of it, almost every club could probably claim to be more successful than TheRangers on one criteria or another.
I’m afraid the banner industry down here is seriously under developed – but I’m sure there are people here who know people who . . .
I caught some of Sportsound did I hear right ? one of the guests was representing Sons of Struth?
The BBC invited a man who,according to their name,represents an old order of the most bigoted time in Scottish Football.A group of people who hark back to the ‘old values’ of unadulterated sectarianism.
My God,what have the BBC become.
jimlarkin says: (702)
December 18, 2013 at 5:58 pm
m.c.f.c. says: (53)
December 18, 2013 at 5:48 pm
6 0 Rate This
So to summarize m’lud. The club has the same name, the same stadium, the same strip, the same five stars, the same fans, the same website address, the same continuous history – but not the same debt or creditors. So it is our contention m’lud that it was not the club that was liquidated, but the debt and the creditors.
===========================================================
I see that neil alexander has a claim in for breach of contract.
Will the new club claim that it was an ”old” club debt ?
————————————————————————————————————————————–
Jim,
Neil Alexander had to be offered TUPE when he joined Sevco Scotland (as was). The likelihood was that he accepted his original terms, whatever they were. I think personally that he will win his case as Sevco Scotland agreed to the new TUPE’d terms and will have to honour them. Not so much an old club/ newclub debate (although the Companies House registrations make it obvious) as a bog standard TUPE case that TRIFC will lose to add to their cash burn issues.
m.c.f.c. says: (54)
December 18, 2013 at 5:00 pm
37 0 Rate This
isn’t it time for Celtic FC to assert its claim to be the most successful club in Scotland – and let the courts decide the facts if necessary – rather than tacitly accepting the poorly researched, contradictory nonsense from a mealy-mouthed quango.
Anyone game for a wee bit of mischeif at Park Head ?
—————
I believe without a shadow of doubt , speaking honestly , that I can honestly claim that Celtic FC is the most successful Scottish football club, when considering achievements in top flight European football, to be honest.
There sorted.
Angus1983
Point taken , Celtic and Aberdeen are the joint most successful Scottish clubs in top flight European football , on the basis that 1 ECWC + SC = 1 BigCup.
There sorted
How many of these men would you trust to run your club (or even it’s holding company)
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02249/rangers_2249592b.jpg
How interesting that, apparently, there are only 2 members of the Sons of Struth. Or did I mishear the chap on sportsound tonight?
Tif Finn says: (1034)
December 18, 2013 at 8:42 pm
12 0 Rate This
How many of these men would you trust to run your club (or even it’s holding company)
——————
You could have stopped typing eight words in 😉
Ironically, so could you.
john clarke says:
December 18, 2013 at 9:16 pm
How interesting that, apparently, there are only 2 members of the Sons of Struth. Or did I mishear the chap on sportsound tonight?
===============================================
That’s exactly what he said, JC, someone called Craig. He said something about 2 members only, but loads of followers!
The Sportsound exclusive also had an interview with Paul Murray. Spiers, funningly enough, managed to skewer him big time tonight! Murray came across as a total idiot when Spiers challenged him on:
1. Transparency, i.e. Murray was part of the Old Board who weren’t exactly transparent on the use of EBT’s. He very soon used the old excuse that he was a Non-Exec, i.e “It wisnae me, the Big Boy did it and ran away!”
2. Murray’s claim that whilst he was on the Old Board, the debt was halved.
Murray came across as a bitter and twisted individual more concerned that an “Institution” is under threat. If I ever hear the words “True Rangers Men”, “Dignity”, “Rangers Minded”, “Club at Heart”, etc again, I think I’m going to puke!
Talking of puke, I also made the mistake of listening to SSB tonight.
One obviously worried bear was on asking “Who is really calling the shots at ibrox?”
What a good question?
I just logged into the BBC Scotland sport site and 3 of the 4 headlines were ‘Rangers’ related. They don’t even have papers to sell.
Is this AGM not just another slap in the face for football in general. Clubs, their associations etc are just trying to play the business game and are playing catch up. Finance rules are a joke and these unscrupulous people are just using the pleb to fund their life styles.
You don’t have to have morals, scruples or brain cells but can make a quick buck. Lets not beat about the bush, Craig Whyte is no Blowfeld with a master plan, Charles Green uses the same MO, not rocket science.
You just have to be a bottom feeder and the Finance rules will make sure you can stash away as much candy as possible. If you get caught, ‘bang to rights’, just plea bargain and you can still come out pockets bulging. Greed is GOOD!! Football still playing catch up!
Angus1983 says: (1296)
December 18, 2013 at 1:42 pm
“I’m going to love every fucken moment of going to Tannadice and pumping them, going to Pittodrie, full of pure poison and putting them back in their place, going to Easter road, full of hate and shutting the bastards up. Fucken love it”.
————————————————————————————————————————————–
Rather an optimistic view from Rangers fans considering all the talk at the moment is how skint they are and how they must downsize and drastically reduce their wage bill.
They’ll be lucky to avoid relegation from the SPL, (if they ever get there) never mind ‘putting other teams in their place’.
If the Easedales thinks Ibrox is worth £20m without survey reports from an Asbestos Consultant and Insurance Inspector ………they are playing with fire
On second thoughts
………maybe thats the real end game
I see the good people on follow follow are still reading this place.
Though they may not be taking much on board.
=====================================
http://videocelts.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Brian-Stockbridge.jpg
one guy was shafted
two guys started the shafting
one guy continues the shafting
=======================================
The caption doesn’t actually make much sense but there you go.
I wonder if it was deliberate that he actually posted the image from a Celtic supporting website.
It’s pleasing to see that the spirit of Woodward and Bernstein is alive and kicking at the Evening Times where the back page has two articles both written by Chris Jack (nope, me neither) one of which commences “Rangers legend Derek Johnstone today backed Ally McCoist’s decision to hand over his shares to the Light Blue legions.” Maybe Mr Johnstone has misunderstood what Super Salary has actually done? Well if he has he is not the only one because the third paragraph states “The Ibrox gaffer has given his one million shares to the Calderwood Loyal RSC in East Kilbride…”.
Has he really?
How difficult is it to differentiate between the smell, the steam and the turd?
It may be questioned why the thoughts of Mr Johnstone are newsworthy. This is the same person who was telling anyone who would listen on Radio Clyde last week that at the AGM anyone could ask any question and, here’s the good bit, under Company Law the Board were not allowed to lie when they answered. Phew, where would we be without that Company Law thing? Only slight difficulty may be that I am fairly sure I heard Mr Johnstone tonight say that there were 2800 people expected tomorrow. If that’s correct and they each ask one question and each question can be asked and answered in one minute the Q&A part of the AGM will take up the thick end of two days. Then there’s those pesky Resolution thingies. It will be interesting to see how the undertaking to make their Stock Exchange announcement no later than 7am on Friday is met. Maybe some of the IPO money went on a Tardis.
Malcolm Murray not a happy wee chappy tonight on TV 😉 arrogance seems to be his forte 😉
It’s interesting that when he was on the Rangers board Paul Murray claims to have had no power, no responsibility, being marginalized and none of what happened was his fault.
However he also claims credit for the club’s debt halving at the same time (which didn’t actually happen it’s just more propaganda).
Serious question, is there no-one of any substance, with any honour, with any ability, who actually wants to be part of the PLC’s board. Is it all just spivs and liars.
I posted a few days ago concerned about the ‘rock and hard place’ that Ally McCoist found himself in with regard to how he should deal with the AGM and his shareholding vote.
I see he has managed a nice little sidestep ,no doubt as many have already observed, with the blessing of his paymasters.I suggested at the time that the situation would be resolved by his selfless disposal of the shares.It puzzles me as to why he wants to hang on to them.Is he locked in for some time past the AGM or does he think that they are worth considerably more than the current listed price?
If McCoist had any decency he would have given the shares to the supporters club his Father was a member of, rather than just giving his vote for this AGM to them. Simply using them as his way out of an awkward situation.
He could have portrayed himself a decent person, rather than just proving himself a coward as we already knew.
If one thing is clear from this whole mess it is that Ally McCoist is not a cheery, cheeky chappie. He is a manipulating self server. Though to be fair so are a lot of the players involved.
Again, can anyone identify an honourable decent person either involved or wishing to become involved.
Malcolm Murray. “I’m from an institutional background”. He chose to omit four very valuable letters in that statement. Surely he meant “I’m from an institutionalised background”. This guy is a serious clown. Imagine having him on your side.
p.s.
A request for Ally for tomorrow.
Dignity. A big word for rangers supporters!
Ally is already a multi-millionaire.
How dignified would it feel, Ally, to produce a cheque tomorrow for £500,000 to charity, followed by the profit from your “1 pence” shares to the creditors of RFC still trying to get their money back after liquidation.
Nice of you to “donate” your voting rights to the east kilbride supporters. Not exactly the same as donating your “Hard Earned!”. How anyone can earn £850,000 as a manager in the 4th tier of scottish football is beyond me!
Actually, Ally, how dignified do you actually feel knowing that people have been shafted after RFC went bust, but a few days later you are earning £850,000 per year, and have been given 1,000,000 shares at 1p each?
How dignified are you Ally?
We need to know!
But it’s the old club that owes the creditors money, not the new one.
Certainly not the manager of the new one who also owns 1,000,000 shares in the business. Valued at £350,000, which he got for £10,000.
You have to be reasonable about these things.
fergussingstheblues says: (114)
December 18, 2013 at 10:35 pm
‘…That’s exactly what he said, JC, someone called Craig. He said something about 2 members only, but loads of followers!..’
——-
Thanks for that confirmation that I hadn’t imagined that.
Fair dos, the Craig chappie came across as reasonably diplomatic but ready to ask serious questions of those who seem hell bent on destroying the new club before its second birthday.
My question is , where was he ( and his supporters) in the false SDM ‘glory days’, and the CW days, and the D&P days, and the CG days, and the Malcolm Murray days, and the Mather days, and all the rest?
We have to remember that many of our Captains of Industry, our legal eagles, our wee pretendy ( cheers, Billy C) parliamentarians, our general ‘Establishment’ figures, constitute a significant element of CG’s 500 million ‘rangers’ supporters.
But who among them has stepped forward to try to rescue their team by laying out wads of cash?
None.
And how many of those now sniffing about are convicted criminals? Or former failed directors?
We saw that long ago.
Why didn’t the general fan base of the old club?
The (two) Sons of Struth appear to have left it too late to start asking serious questions.
Oh there’s a Plan B, quality. Just a pity he won’t say what it might be.
I really need another pantomime, this is definitely the time of year for it. .
http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/449449/Rangers-rebels-have-a-plan-B-says-former-chairman-Malcolm-Murray
‘Rangers rebels have a plan B,’ says former chairman Malcolm Murray
FORMER Rangers chairman Malcolm Murray insists the Ibrox rebels could continue their crusade if they fail to win places on the board at today’s AGM.
It has been claimed that current directors James Easdale, Brian Stockbridge, David Somers, Norman Crighton and Graham Wallace have already secured more than 51 per cent of the proxy vote.
That could see off the requisitioners – Murray, Paul Murray, Alex Wilson and Scott Murdoch, who are hoping to be voted on to the board.
Malcolm Murray says it would be a breach of stock market rules if the result had been leaked before the meeting, but he has urged every supporter to use their vote and demand answers from the current board.
He said: “I honestly don’t know if the Rangers board already have the majority they need.
“To me, it looks like a Jack Irvine [Rangers’ PR adviser] tactic, trying to persuade fans not to turn up.
“We are still going to the AGM with the belief we can win.
“We want all the fans to turn up and cast their votes and also ask questions of the current board.
“We are going there in a positive frame of mind and we will see what happens.” Asked if the requisitioners would walk away if the result goes against them, Murray replied: “It depends what the other shareholders want to do, but we certainly won’t be releasing our Plan B like we did last time.
“It all depends on the appetite of the financial institutions who are going to back us.”
Murray was chairman under Charles Green but was pushed out, and since then the club has gone into freefall.
Rangers have spent the majority of the £22million they raised in a stock market listing and there are concerns they don’t have enough money to see out the season.
Murray said: “The club’s finances need to be sorted out for the long term and maybe even the short term. It could easily be the case that the club could need an investment of capital before the end of the season.
“[Finance director] Brian Stockbridge has said that and they have spent quite a lot of money since.”
Rangers have asked Murray to withdraw his claim that the result had been leaked by a board member. A club spokesman said: “The board are dismayed that an experienced
businessman with knowledge of City practices could suggest that our board would leak information to the media before the AGM.
“The board did not have the final voting figures and therefore it would have been physically impossible to leak anything.
“We have, nonetheless, conducted a detailed investigation into the circumstances surrounding the alleged leak and are confident all necessary protocols were rigorously adhered to and that no information was shared inappropriately.”
As you know I have a friend who admits to listening to SSB. On tonights show he informs me that BFDJ solved the whole “How to take the club forward” mystery by simply stating that the return of “The Man Who Would Be Dave” should not be ruled out.
Question
How does one invest in a PLC without there being a share issue.
You can buy shares, but the money goes to the seller. You can provide loans, but that isn’t really an investment as it is a liability.
So how can Dave King, or anyone else, invest in the PLC without a further share issue.
Tif Finn says: (1041)
December 18, 2013 at 11:51 pm
£££££££
The expectation amongst the deluded is that Dave, or another billionaire, will GIVE sevco money purely out of rangersnessness! This selfless gift will earn the donor the undying loyalty, love, gratitude and media obsequiousness that North Korean despots can only dream of. That is until they are outed by internet bampots as ruthless con artists. Then they’ll join SDM, CW and Jim Spence, amongst others, on the VB ‘wish list.
Malcolm Murray gave an abysmal performance on STV.
His demeanour was hostile and charmless, most of his answers were unintelligible
What I took from it was that they are not going to invest their own money and were purporting to represent (front for) institutions, these institutions were not named, possibly preferring anonymity (who needs transparency?). He did emphasise his institutional background. A background that most of the fans must now distrust as faceless people manipulating businesses for their own end and to the detriment of the business.
His pitch did not add differentiate his group from the current board, in fact he almost endorsed Wallace.
I think the Board must be happy to have Malcolm outside the tent pissing wherever he wants.
Whatever the outcome tomorrow I expect to see the Ibrox and any other genuine assets hived off and whoever wants the debt ridden husk can have it.
I have a vision of breakaway Rangers starting at Hampden claiming to be the Club because they have Smith’s backing, while there is still a team at Ibrox.
Whatever the outcome tomorrow I expect a dirty fight and it will carry on after the bell.
Tomorrow’s DR front and back pages…..
https://twitter.com/daily_record/status/413458996951932928
https://twitter.com/daily_record/status/413459180192677890
Den says: (22)
December 19, 2013 at 12:02 am
I have a vision of breakaway Rangers starting at Hampden claiming to be the Club because they have Smith’s backing, while there is still a team at Ibrox.
================================================
Nooooooooooooo! I live on Aikenhead Rd across from Hampden, ye can GTF with that idea!!
Tif Finn says: (1041)
December 18, 2013 at 11:51 pm
Question
How does one invest in a PLC without there being a share issue.
You can buy shares, but the money goes to the seller. You can provide loans, but that isn’t really an investment as it is a liability.
So how can Dave King, or anyone else, invest in the PLC without a further share issue.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Och! for goodness sake how long will it take you to realise that this is Rangers we are talking about. The Laws of the Land do not apply to them.
Why invest in a PLC when you can buy the clubpany cheap?
anyone got a link to the STV interview with Murray….I need a laugh
The Scotsman back page,
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BbzVJkiIUAAjON2.jpg:large
Sun back page
https://twitter.com/scottishsun/status/413466029516275712
Den says: (22)
December 19, 2013 at 12:02 am
‘…Whatever the outcome tomorrow I expect a dirty fight and it will carry on after the bell..’
————
Yes, indeed.
There is not likely to be breakout of unity and fraternal solidarity tomorrow.
And a house, big or otherwise, divided against itself cannot stand.!
Even very recent history is littered with examples of whole empires that have crumbled because of the individual greed of grubby individuals each seeking the best filled bit of the trough to stick their snouts in.
A handful of men, prideful, deceitful, vainglorious, each chiefly greedy and unprincipled ,are clearly prepared to destroy the notion of loyalty to a football club, or to the fans of a football club,that they profess to love, rather than come to some rapprochement.
Perhaps because they realise that the whole enterprise is a living lie, and what the hell should they care, as long as they make a personal shekel or two?
I think ( not ‘I hope’) that the case is terminal.
RIFC plc , and its wholly owned subsidiary The Rangers FC, are doomed .
The men who might be emotionally attached have not got the money or are not inclined to throw their money at it, and the men with the money will kill the club to make more money.
In my simple view..
john clarke says: (1447)
Even very recent history is littered with examples of whole empires that have crumbled because of the individual greed of grubby individuals each seeking the best filled bit of the trough to stick their snouts in.
A handful of men, prideful, deceitful, vainglorious, each chiefly greedy and unprincipled ,are clearly prepared to destroy the notion of loyalty to a football club, or to the fans of a football club,that they profess to love, rather than come to some rapprochement.
Perhaps because they realise that the whole enterprise is a living lie, and what the hell should they care, as long as they make a personal shekel or two?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Strong words JC. I just hope Alistair doesn’t read this blog.
paulsatim says: (662)
December 19, 2013 at 12:57 am
The Scotsman back page,
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BbzVJkiIUAAjON2.jpg:large
Sun back page
https://twitter.com/scottishsun/status/413466029516275712
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Hehe. Youse laughed but BFDJ was the first to be told of the return of “The man who would be Peacemaker Dave”
I wonder how it works. Does Jack call them in for a briefing in the afternoon and then sends them out to do there prossielytisin’ or is it just a phone round?
Notice the difference in how the Sun deal with The Clutha looters compared to DR’s front page above
https://twitter.com/scottishsun/status/413465939292590081
paulsatim says: (662)
December 19, 2013 at 12:28 am
‘…ye can GTF with that idea!!..’
——
Very OT, but I ( Billy Connolly style) Love it!
What a marvellously expressive expression that is!
Indignation, affront, incredulity, humour, and forceful opposition contained pungently in nine syllables.
Perhaps boosted by the agonised ‘nooooooooooo’.
There must be a makar on the blog who could brilliantly capture the thrust and drive and raw humanity and finer emotions of many of the posts.
(I’ve just been reading Edwin Morgan’s ‘King Billy’- ‘….. a quiet man at last, dying alone in Bridgeton in a box bed..’)
Carry on.
paulsatim says: (663)
December 19, 2013 at 1:28 am
Notice the difference in how the Sun deal with The Clutha looters compared to DR’s front page above
https://twitter.com/scottishsun/status/413465939292590081
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
So the press reporting is diverse. What is your point caller?
Today’s AGM feels less like an annual meeting of shareholders and more like an annual memorial service at which the grasping, bickering, spiteful and hateful relatives gather to argue over the spoils of the diminishing estate in the presence of the rotting corpse.
Then again it could turn out to be an absolutely hilarious event providing us with enough to talk about until the results of the Upper Tier Tax Case are revealed.
Christmas, the perfect season for the gift that keeps on giving.
On the two major tabloids.
Yes, the DR front unsurprisingly brings an ongoing Celtic issue to the news section whereas the Sun deals with local news
The Sun back page though leads with the idea that Scottish football wants an end to this stramash.
Maybe the SFA do to get them off the hook, maybe fans of the old and new club do as it speeds their journey to “where they rightfully belong (c) ” but to fans of Aberdeen to Yoker athletic, we really don’t care bar asking for a fair crack of the whip to be given to all clubs when it comes to governance
Den says: (22)
December 19, 2013 at 12:02 am
Malcolm Murray gave an abysmal performance on STV.
His demeanour was hostile and charmless, most of his answers were unintelligible……
__________________________________________________________________________________
Paulmac2 says: (821)
December 19, 2013 at 12:54 am
anyone got a link to the STV interview with Murray….I need a laugh
__________________________________________________________________________________
Well have a look for yourselves gents….Malcom Murray…dripping with arrogance and venom. Absolute car-crash TV – I struggle to understand just how bad a performance this is.
The more I hear this fellow speak the more of a completely unsavoury individual he seems. This is the quality of individual that can make Chairman down Ibrox way….says a lot to me.
As I said before, if this is what they are like in public we can only imagine what they are like when the cameras are not there!!
As for that other wallaoper …. With his “Churchillian” paraphrasing…..and “reinstating the values of the club” ha ha ha…ho ho ….oh my aching sides…..
On a related point…is it really fitting for a commercial broadcaster to be quite so partisan to one side…absolutely no shame…. and of course this all ignores the fact that all their flannel about institutions and wealthy individuals just queuing up to throw money at Sevco is absolute fantasy….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6ahHqK2uH4
Note…there is a small glitch in the video above….after 10 mins or so it is finished….not sure quite why there is another 20 minutes of darkness….then again..maybe appropriate….
Just came up as ‘This video is private’ for me. I’ll search YouTube
Tif Finn says: (1041)
December 18, 2013 at 11:07 pm
It’s interesting that when he was on the Rangers board Paul Murray claims to have had no power, no responsibility, being marginalized and none of what happened was his fault.
However he also claims credit for the club’s debt halving at the same time (which didn’t actually happen it’s just more propaganda).
_____________________________________________________
But is that not just the Rangers’ Way. Claim credit, but accept no blame: claim titles, but ditch the debt!
More Malcom anyone……
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ULuhAOclGU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsH2oGuEz_k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLHL7YuJ03Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iv3tuezHy7w
….as I say…what are they like in private?
scottc says: (387)
Just came up as ‘This video is private’ for me. I’ll search YouTube
______________________________________________________________
Oops……try it now…should be fine
peterjung says: (59)
December 19, 2013 at 7:13 am
1 1 Rate This
scottc says: (387)
Just came up as ‘This video is private’ for me. I’ll search YouTube
______________________________________________________________
Oops……try it now…should be fine
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Perfect. Thanks Peter.
From RM: Alex asking about the AGM dress code,
Is there a dress code for this?
Will jeans be ok, or am I better wearing smart trousers?
#######
If he does they’ll be the only smart thing in the room!:-)
Tif Finn says: (1041)
December 18, 2013 at 11:43 pm
Oh there’s a Plan B, quality. Just a pity he won’t say what it might be.
‘Rangers rebels have a plan B,’ says former chairman Malcolm Murray
——————————————–
May I suggest that the remainder of the plan’s title is “ugger off humiliated with our tails between our legs”?
john clarke says:
… whole empires that have crumbled because of the individual greed of grubby individuals each seeking the best filled bit of the trough to stick their snouts in.
——
In my latest attempt to gain entry to PseudsCorner, the whole scene of greed, double-crossing and debauchery brings to mind events around Ravenna in the 5th Century …
Valentinian = Craigie boy
Galla Placidia (whose “tomb” I visited in the summer) = SDM
Petronius Maximus =Mr Green
Gaiseric = post-Green vultures
Unfortunately, it seems there has never been a noble Aetius-type character involved in the current Decline of Empire!
What a pish I talk sometimes. 🙂
I find it hillarious that those at Sevco can’t actually bring themselves to say the word REBEL. It’s right up there with the green wrapped pepperami and the eggs Benedict. Are you all really that immature? Does it sound too Republican for yeh? Just think what could have happened if anybody really listened to you…..
David Bowie…………..Requisitioner, Requisitioner
Billy Idol…………………Requisitioner Yell
Uppity Scotsman…….The Jacobite Requisitioning
Princess Leia and the good guys……The Requisitioner Alliance
Jimmy Dean……Requisitioner without a cause
Regime change…….The Syrian Requisitioners
Brian Dempsey…….The Requisitioners have won
Mother to teenage son………..”You’ll dae as yer telt, yah wee feckin requisitioner yeh”
You get the drift…….. Its a word, nobody owns it and it’s used worldwide. Get over it. Bonkers, absolute Bonkers!!!!!!!
Let’s have a good clean fight, nothing below the belt, no biting or holding and separate on my word. Now touch gloves ….
I would like to think it will be that exciting, but I expect nothing more or less than the current board being voted back on – the status quo. Of more interest will be how the fans will react afterwards. Will they unite in condemnation? Will they starve the evil out of their club? Or will the Rangers PR machine keep them divided and ultimately compliant. We shall see.
Christyboy says: (29)
December 19, 2013 at 9:12 am
1 0 Rate This
I find it hillarious that those at Sevco can’t actually bring themselves to say the word REBEL. It’s right up there with the green wrapped pepperami and the eggs Benedict. Are you all really that immature? Does it sound too Republican for yeh? Just think what could have happened if anybody really listened to you…..
David Bowie…………..Requisitioner, Requisitioner
Billy Idol…………………Requisitioner Yell
Uppity Scotsman…….The Jacobite Requisitioning
Princess Leia and the good guys……The Requisitioner Alliance
Jimmy Dean……Requisitioner without a cause
Regime change…….The Syrian Requisitioners
Brian Dempsey…….The Requisitioners have won
Mother to teenage son………..”You’ll dae as yer telt, yah wee feckin requisitioner yeh”
You get the drift…….. Its a word, nobody owns it and it’s used worldwide. Get over it. Bonkers, absolute Bonkers!!!!!!!
===========================
I can’t believe you didn’t include the Alsatian from Champion, The Wonder Horse.
http://www.westernclippings.com/remember/champion_doyouremember.shtml
Will we ever see the end of the WATP mentality that many posters on here (myself included) believe contributed to their downfall?
Not if this is anything to go by:
http://www.watpmagazine.co.uk/index.html
For those who cannot click the link (work restrictions or whatever), yes you read that correctly, this is a WATP magazine 😯
dropping like McCoist in the box
Rangers Int share price 33.7
Three furra pound,buy them here ,three furra pound
I see someone is buying up shares this morning.
http://www.lse.co.uk/ShareTrades.asp?shareprice=RFC&share=rangers_int
john clarke says: (1448)
December 18, 2013 at 11:42 pm
Fair dos, the Craig chappie came across as reasonably diplomatic but ready to ask serious questions of those who seem hell bent on destroying the new club before its second birthday.
My question is , where was he ( and his supporters) in the false SDM ‘glory days’, and the CW days, and the D&P days, and the CG days, and the Malcolm Murray days, and the Mather days, and all the rest?
———-
Good question John – he was with his best buddy Sandy (the other half of SoS), making friends and promoting the inclusive, humble, culture of a footballing institution, the length and breadth of Scotland:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Rangers-Famous-ICF-Most-feared-Football-hooligan/dp/1905769288
Re the shares
Price dropping but really no major volumes being traded.
Will be interesting to see if any high volumes go through at some point today or if the whole thing is just going to be a drip drip effect with the price going lower and lower.
I think I saw that the official results of the AGM won’t be posted until tomorrow night. Therefore we may not see any movement until next week unl;ess people act on the press reporting after todays meeting is finished.
The markets are a funny thing so not sure how they will react to the possibility of a board being in place that doesn’t appear to have the immediate backing of the customers who supply the company with its main source of income.
Call me a saddo but on the share site
http://www.lse.co.uk/ShareTrades.asp?shareprice=RFC&share=rangers_int
If you select the two year chart for the shares and apply the ‘single trend line’ option you will find that the angle of the decline in Rangers shares is about the same as the increase in those of Celtic.
All nicely balanced I would say.
wottpi says: (1332)
December 19, 2013 at 9:48 am
Correct, but it’s an extra laugh that the market cap has dipped below the £22m mark on the morning of the AGM.
On last night’s interview, was this Malcolm Murray guy REALLY in charge of other people’s money as a fund manager in the City for 30 years? REALLY? No wonder any money I’ve ever invested in the City has produced a crap return linked to eye-watering charges.
In his interview last night, his answer to the company’s cash shortage is to persuade Blue Chip institutions to plough in yet more of other people’s money so that the club can “invest” next year. I thought the words “war chest” were about to fall from his lips at one stage. So to anyone thinking about commiting their hard-earned to a Blue Chip investment fund, be aware that they are prepared (apparently) to take your money, lose half of it on shares in a badly run, loss making football business, and then put the icing on the cake by taking some more of your money to give to the same disastrous business to throw away. That’s the Murray plan A (and B,C and D too, I guess). Impressed? No, I wasn’t either.
Anyway, it was just him and Saint Walter battling it out against the forces of evil earlier this year. Outvoted every time, so they were. Wouldn’t you think that these twin icons of Rangersness, these custodians of the brownest of brogues and most dignified of blazers, would have walked out immediately, and rallied the 500 million, the very minute they saw what was going on, and realised that they could do nothing about it from inside the Blue Room? Didn’t Murray have to be booted out, in effect? And as regards Saint Walter, any sightings recently? Is he expected to attend the AGM today? Any words of support from him for Malcolm in his our of need? Or is he just sitting on his big pay-off, the price of his oh so dignified silence?
I’ll tell you this much- there is a really good book to be written on the back of this farce, the trouble is that it’s going to take up more shelf space than Gibbon’s “Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire”. A similar theme though, a mighty institution brought down by decadence, it’s last phase characterised by various vultures picking over its corpse. But if this saga proves one thing conclusively, it’s this- truth is indeed stranger than fiction. You simply could not make this stuff up.
I wonder who will be present when it’s getting handed around this New Year
2012
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dJpf3zOXd4
2013
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0kA7e_Bhhc
2014
????????????????
Couple of shots from outside Ibrokes this morning,
http://i40.tinypic.com/2u7r8rk.jpg
Is an asset holder the same as a shareholder?
As you say, not only was Malcolm Murray compliant with the board, they practiclly had to use a crowbar to get him out of the board room. From filming him drunk and stumbling about (and releasing it on the internet) to Ahmad bullying him like a child on the phone.
His re-inventing of himself as some heroic figure fighting against the forces of darkness is laughable.
neepheid says: (934)
December 19, 2013 at 10:03 am
I watched the interview this morning online. Malcolm Murray should never be allowed to be a spokesman, regardless of the substance of the man (on which I cannot comment). He came across as moody and like he would rather be somewhere else. Paul Murray seems incapable on answering a straight question. The other two chaps (names escape me) seem to be much more capable but have been kept largely from the limelight.
I know many Rangers fans. I know none who are impressed with the Murrays & Co.
Having watched Malcolm Murray last night.,although to the untrained eye he seemed to be in the STV studio,it became readily apparent that perhaps he was in a studio in L.A. and time-lapsed, given the eternity he took to answer questions.
I found the overall interview complete with the other Rangers business -minded Rangers man chappy, uncomfortable and somewhat embarassing,given the constant references to Rangers men,Rangers wealth and of course Churchill,who I don’t think supported Rangers……maybe he did.
And if Churchill didn’t support Rangers,well,what was he thinking of ?