Peace – Not War

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Peace – Not War

We normally don’t talk about on-field stuff on SFM, but given the over-optimistic coverage of the prospects of TRFC (particularly in the ESJ © The Clumpany  and DR) it is worth noting that since they beat Celtic on penalties in last year’s Scottish Cup semi final, they have played in four huge games which were real barometers of progress ;

  • Hibs in the Scottish Cup Final: 2-3
  • Celtic in the Premiership: 1-5
  • Aberdeen in the Premiership: 1-2
  • Celtic in the League Cup Semi-Final: 0-1

On each occasion, they have failed the test, not only by failing to get a result, but by being second best in most on-field departments.

The point is not one of wider Schadenfreude, or even an in-depth critique of the abilities of the team or manager, but of how the TRFC board and the MSM, in falsely inflating their side’s prospects, do a disservice to TRFC fans. Aided and abetted it seems by the manager who – even allowing for the positive spin managers need to put on things post defeat – is refusing to accept reality.

We often talk about turnover as the yardstick by which performance can be (roughly) measured. If that were the only yardstick, one would expect TRFC to be right up there with Celtic. But it is more complicated than that. For Celtic and TRFC, there are massive overheads (e.g. stadium costs) that have to be dealt with and taken out of the equation before Glasgow apples can be compared with Aberdeen and Edinburgh varieties.

Even allowing for that it seems pretty clear to me that TRFC have more disposable income (for spending on players and contracts) than Hearts or Aberdeen for example, but the gap is now not as great as raw turnover figures would suggest  – and the margins are probably slim enough that they can be easily blurred by managers at other clubs who have a good grasp of tactics, an eye for a player, and a proper understanding of football psychology.

To compound the problem for TRFC, there are two rather large eggs in the TRFC transfer basket which are now cracked or broken.  A dangerous waste of resources in fact. Whether it was Warburton or King who went to the market for Barton and Kranjčar is irrelevant. More relevant is the reason marquee signings like these were made.

Once a manager is recruited, you stay out of his domain

Yes, Barton’s signature in particular has used a huge chunk of the already scant budget, and that is a real blow to the manager’s planning, but the real problem is that the club has deliberately pushed fan expectations skyward, all of which is counter-intuitive given the rough calculations in the preceding paragraphs. More worryingly for Rangers fans, the board’s own expectations for the playing side are unrealistically high – and given the business expertise contained therein, puzzlingly so.

TRFC is a focal point for tens of thousands of people. The people who run the club are also influential opinion formers and how they set the tone for those thousands is important.

Tub-rattling, dog-whistling, and the WATP mentality have been employed almost exclusively thus far in the ‘journey’. All of which may have rallied the troops and provided a welcome injection of funds, but it also antagonised almost every football fan in the country who wasn’t a Rangers follower. And in view of how those funds (including the £21m IPO) seemingly disappeared into the ether, did it really help the club realise any ambitions going forward?

TRFC are looking up at the north face of a financial Eiger today

I can’t help feeling that had they been replaced with humility, some regret, and gratitude to those who smoothed their path into the leagues, then the view from the club deck would a lot more attractive today than it is.

The journey could have been an expansive one bent on winning friends along the way, clearly differentiating itself from the Murray era, and carrying assurances that the new Rangers would never treat the game in Scotland as shabbily as its predecessor.

Seems intuitively obvious to me that a mission statement like the following would win hearts and minds;

“The latter-day custodians of Rangers have destroyed our club and shamed its traditions of sporting integrity, fair play, and honest endeavour.

“However the ethos and identity of our club will not be allowed to slip into obscurity.

“We will build a club worthy of the traditions of sporting integrity and fair play. It will be open and accessible to people of all colours, creeds and nationalities,

“It will be a long journey, but it is one which we relish, and one which will in time restore Rangers to the upper echelons of the game“

Managing expectations realistically with a ‘we are thankful to keep the Rangers name alive’ would have played better with the bears.

I don’t believe there is a football fan in the world who wouldn’t sign up to that had they found their club in the same circumstances as 2011 Rangers. I don’t believe that Rangers fans are any different either, but the problem is that their moral compass is being calibrated by people whose past records make them least qualified for the task.

Instead of a plan to win Scottish football over, we got boycotts, victim-hood, denial, and that wonderful new oxymoronic idiom, post-liquidation. Really though, it should all have been so different.

Water bills notwithstanding, TRFC are looking up at the north face of a financial Eiger today, but they chose to climb an Eiger instead of a Munro, and they sold false hope and snake oil to the fans on the way.

They have no money with which to recruit players of sufficient quality to challenge at the top. They are facing a massive bill for repairs and maintenance of a stadium that has atrophied under six or seven years of neglect. They have similar infrastructure problems at their training ground. They need to build a scouting infrastructure which currently consists of one man and several local volunteers. Their income from merchandising is non-existent due to a testicles-drawn dispute with Sports Direct. They owe several millions of pounds of soft loans which they cannot convert to equity because of that same dispute, and the people they have gone back to again and again for top-up finance have ever shortening arms and lengthening pockets.

.. we understand the value that Rangers can bring to the to the Scottish game and we want it to be realised.

Miracles of course do happen, perhaps in the shape of a magician manager who can get them access to European cash almost immediately. Unless that comes to pass, there is no way forward for Dave King and his board, other than to make peace immediately with Sports Direct and actually stump up the cash he promised two years ago; cash he promised to bridge the resources gap which is widening by the week.

A widely accepted wisdom in many football boardrooms these days is that the main recruitment priority of any board is an excellent manager. A really good manager can make a team out of ordinary players, but a poor manager will have difficulty sculpting a winning side from even very good players.  So in a club with limited resources, it makes sense to spend a major part of your budget on a very good manager.

Another widely accepted wisdom in boardrooms (even if not always followed) is that once a manager is recruited, you stay out of his domain.

The boardroom at Ibrox is not awash with wisdom it seems. First of all they put their faith in a manager with little or no experience in the game. That may well have worked out with a bit of good fortune, but does anyone really believe, after his disappearing act in the wake of the Cup Final defeat and his absence at the Barton signing conference, that Mark Warburton is master of his own domain?

If not, does the ‘come hither’ curled finger of fate attached to Jimmy Traynor’s hand at last week’s press conference convince you?

I would guess that there are at least half a dozen experienced managers with a track record of success who would relish the challenge of putting TRFC on the map at the opportunity cost of a Barton for example. Instead it seems – if the rumours are true – that Warburton’s autonomy was breached so that said Joey could be hired to boost ST sales.

No group of fans is entitled to expect success. Rangers fans, and Celtic fans, have historically come to expect that very thing. It is understandable to some extent, but it should never be confused with an actual entitlement to success – and that is what the board at Ibrox are selling to the fans in return for their cash – which as we have seen is not being converted to the promised on-field successes.

the ‘come hither’ curled finger of fate attached to Jimmy Traynor’s hand should convince us that Warburton is not his own master

To a large extent, I think some of the online comments in fan sites in the wake of the Celtic match have been sensible and mature. Reality amongst Rangers fans is at last beginning to bite, and that can only be a good thing for TRFC. Rangers fans are beginning to understand that too many liberties have been taken with their loyalty to and love of the jersey. The problem for the fans is that whilst they come to terms with what may be a realistic timetable and roadmap towards success and parity with the top clubs, the current board and their chums in the press are invested in having them believe the opposite.

Already the cheerleaders in the red tops are proclaiming their ‘gulf-denial’ credentials in the hope that enough fans will be convinced of it. The problem is that the fans know the gulf exists – and not only that does exist, but it is unrealistic to expect it not to.

The Level5 effect is wearing off. In the past five years, £21m quid in investment, £6m in loans, and five years worth of ST sales have all come and gone. Will Rangers fans really do those sums, observe that in each of the four milestone matches mentioned at the beginning of this article there is nothing to show for it, and agree that there is nothing to concern them?

Rangers fans will no doubt call us obsessed to produce an article like this – about them. But football is uniquely interdependent – we all need each other. It is a game where we benefit from the traditions, the colour and the fanaticism of rivals. The fact is that we understand the value that Rangers can bring to the to the Scottish game and we want it to be realised.

Sadly though, the current people in charge at the club are people who revel in making war on fellow clubs and business partners as well as the national broadcaster and BT Sport. They have also failed to deliver on promises of investment and success to their own fans, and escaped press scrutiny of that failure. Whilst they are there, we see only division in Scottish football with no coming together possible for generations.

I believe that the vast majority of fans who love Rangers, like the rest of us, have had enough of a war on too many fronts to count. It’s time to make peace – with everyone. Football in this country can’t be fixed until that happens.

About the author

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Trisidium administrator

Trisidium is a Dunblane businessman with a keen interest in Scottish Football. He is a Celtic fan, although the demands of modern-day parenting have seen him less at games and more as a taxi service for his kids.

1,368 Comments so far

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PortbhoyPosted on12:52 pm - Dec 4, 2016


the way I see it.

https://i.imgflip.com/1fbkst.jpg

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upthehoopsPosted on1:04 pm - Dec 4, 2016


HOMUNCULUSDECEMBER 4, 2016 at 12:23 
Celtic are not a break even business without either substantial European income or significant return on the sale of players’ registrations.
Domestic income, including sponsorship, merchandising etc is not enough to cover the level of expense the club has.

===============================

I know the point you are making, but Celtic have demonstrated over the years that they can balance the books and cut their cloth when required, using all of the various income streams available to them. They have bought small and sold big a few times. In the absence of substantial TV money, that will remain part of the business plan.  

What appears to be the case at Ibrox is they need a shot at European money to stop the yearly losses. From the clearly planted stories in the media last week, it appears the SFA are going to move heaven and earth to ensure they get that chance. Aberdeen (and Hearts too?) mentioned in their accounts that they comply with FFP requirements. I guess they specifically did that for a very good reason. 

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Homunculus

HomunculusPosted on1:25 pm - Dec 4, 2016


The attached shows Celtic’s Profit / Loss over the last five years.

The nett profit has been c£10m, based on either CL group income or sale of players. It is easy enough to spot the years that neither has happened, the turnover is just above £50m.

Basically Celtic are a well run business. They ensure they keep things manageable relying on a particularly good season every 3 years or so. However they then do not go mad spending, in spite of a lot of pressure from the fans to do so.

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Allyjambo

AllyjamboPosted on1:53 pm - Dec 4, 2016


HOMUNCULUSDECEMBER 4, 2016 at 13:25

I think therein lies the difference between the two clubs’ European income reliance; Celtic need CL/European income to make a profit/progress on the field, and have the realisable assets to cover a bad season or two. TRFC, on the other hand, need European income to fund past years’ losses, and don’t have sufficient realisable assets to… well do very much other than to continue to make losses.

In the meantime, the rest of Scottish football is striving to ensure it can survive with a business plan where any European income is a bonus, no more than that.

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Homunculus

HomunculusPosted on2:22 pm - Dec 4, 2016


ALLYJAMBO
DECEMBER 4, 2016 at 13:53
=================================

I think that sums things up rather well.

What the Rangers support have believed for years, that their club was the biggest in Scotland simply wasn’t true. In any sense.

Without European income Celtic have done better for years. The Rangers support have failed to accept that because of a “we are the people” attitude. To accept the plain facts, that Celtic made more money, was impossible for a lot of them.

There are a few really obvious difference. 

Season Tickets and overall attendances (paying customers). For years Celtic were around 4,000 ahead of Rangers. That’s worth about £2m a year. The Nike deal (now New Balance) is worth about £5m a year. Higher merchandising and sponsorship income meaning a further £1m or so.

Celtic earned about £8m a year more than Rangers without European football or profit on player sales. Celtic therefore found it much easier to balance the books when they didn’t get that European income. 

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upthehoopsPosted on2:33 pm - Dec 4, 2016


Phil McG suggesting there has been recent talks at Hampden surrounding a European licence. 

http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/the-moral-hazard-of-sevco/

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upthehoopsPosted on2:35 pm - Dec 4, 2016


HOMUNCULUSDECEMBER 4, 2016 at 14:22 

What the Rangers support have believed for years, that their club was the biggest in Scotland simply wasn’t true. In any sense.

================================

In March 2015 Paul Murray said on a BBC interview that Rangers are the biggest club in Scotland by any measure. No-one in the studio asked him to justify it or challenged him on it. 

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The Rangers nil? Who missed the penalty?Posted on4:43 pm - Dec 4, 2016


HOMUNCULUSDECEMBER 4, 2016 at 14:22 
What the Rangers support have believed for years, that their club was the biggest in Scotland simply wasn’t true. In any sense.
– – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –
The thing that all forms of “Rangers” and “The Rangers” clubs, players, directors, fans, governing bodies and media cheerleaders, past or present,  regard as their biggest strength is, in fact, their biggest weakness.
I refer, of course, to the unshakeable belief that “We Are The People”.
It killed the previous incarnation and it will destroy this one.

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StevieBC

StevieBCPosted on5:33 pm - Dec 4, 2016


Fair play to TRFC – really didn’t think they would beat Aberdeen.

And Warburton survives to fight another day !

Who knows, they might now give CFC a game at the end of the month?

“It’s a funny old game”.

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jean7brodie

jean7brodiePosted on6:32 pm - Dec 4, 2016


StevieBCDecember 4, 2016 at 17:33
_________________________________
For some reason I though they would beat Aberdeen!!!!!030303

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Cluster One

Cluster OnePosted on6:56 pm - Dec 4, 2016


STEVIEBCDECEMBER 4, 2016 at 17:33       3 Votes 
Fair play to TRFC – really didn’t think they would beat Aberdeen.
And Warburton survives to fight another day !
Who knows, they might now give CFC a game at the end of the month?
“It’s a funny old game”.
——————-
Derek McIness cranked up the heat on rangers by insisting spending power makes them favourites for second place.McInnes believes their ability to outspend his club and the jambos in next month’s transfer window should give warbs a huge advantage.he said rangers have the opportunity and strength to do more in january than others.December 2 2016.
——————-
Maybe not the best headline for the Aberdeen players to see before a game,their manager believes another club should be second because they have more money to spend (allegedly)

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upthehoopsPosted on7:32 pm - Dec 4, 2016


A good read on UEFA FFP, with a specific reference to Rangers.

http://www.sportslawscotland.co.uk/

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jean7brodie

jean7brodiePosted on10:08 pm - Dec 4, 2016


jean7brodieDecember 4, 2016 at 18:32

Thought. Silly me.

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upthehoopsPosted on7:03 am - Dec 5, 2016


Reading on another forum that BDO have yet to formally appeal through the SC on the big tax case. Seems the latest list of appeals granted do not contain it, and there is no evidence it has already been passed. If they have decided not to appeal, would they have to formally announce it?

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easyJamboPosted on10:14 am - Dec 5, 2016


It seems that Paul Murray wishes to follow in the footsteps of Lord Drummond Young and tell the “inside story of Rangers FC”.  Only £10 a head too, or free if you are a member of ICAS.

https://www.icas.com/events/the-inside-story-of-rangers-fc

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easyJamboPosted on10:23 am - Dec 5, 2016


upthehoops December 5, 2016 at 07:03 
Reading on another forum that BDO have yet to formally appeal through the SC on the big tax case. Seems the latest list of appeals granted do not contain it, and there is no evidence it has already been passed. If they have decided not to appeal, would they have to formally announce it?
=========================
My understanding is that they have already been granted the right to appeal to the SC. This was granted through an appeal to the CoS, who agreed that there was an arguable case on a point of law.  Had the CoS turned down the request, then BDO could have appealed direct to the SC. In that situation there would then have been a SC decision whether or not to hear the appeal. The case won’t appear in the current cases list until a few weeks before it is due to be heard.

Lord Carloway said: “The court is of the of the view that there is an arguable point in law of public interest which should allow the appeal to the UK Supreme Court to proceed.
“There are significant issues in this case which may apply to other similar situations.”

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SmugasPosted on2:23 pm - Dec 5, 2016


EJ @ 10.14

Please let someone be able to go and report back.  Please.

The director of the company that was liquidated who is now the chairman of the cash negative company claiming to be the old club with the assets but not the old company with the debt suggesting there is an alternative storyline, bearing in mind the popularly reported storyline isn’t actually what happened anyway?  There’d be worse ways to spend an hour surely!  Could be the best episode of Jackanory for years.  (I’ve no idea, do you still get Jackanory?)

Question 1 from the floor.  I am a banker.  Why should I lend to any ethereal football club in the country regardless of my security position (since demolishing my security will hardly have a positive effect on my brand)?

Question 2.  I am a leading sports retailer…

Question 3.  I am a leading face painter…..   

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easyJamboPosted on3:08 pm - Dec 5, 2016


Smugas December 5, 2016 at 14:23
EJ @ 10.14
Please let someone be able to go and report back.  Please.
=======================
I certainly won’t be going to listen to his excuses.

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StevieBC

StevieBCPosted on3:19 pm - Dec 5, 2016


SMUGAS
DECEMBER 5, 2016 at 14:23 
EJ @ 10.14
Please let someone be able to go and report back.  Please…
================================================
Yes, will our Court Reporter be back from his hols by then ? 14

How vain is Murray ?!
Or is this just a joke in the DR ?

Having assisted with running a high profile Scottish institution into liquidation, a modest accountant would be rather embarrassed to talk about ‘the same club/company’ in public – and certainly not amongst his peers at ICAS.

Can only imagine that Murray would be focused on ‘the glorious future’ of TRFC – and conveniently ignore the past of RFC.
Can’t imagine he would take any unvetted questions from the floor either.
Could be a strong possibility for a no-show; unwell / has a bad hair day / car broke down on the way to ICAS, etc…

[Would be hilarious if TRFC went bust before his scheduled talk ! Would gladly pay a lot more than GBP10 to attend that talk!]

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ChristyboyPosted on4:36 pm - Dec 5, 2016


 ” Mr Murray, we believe you have got the wrong address for your appointment in February, your nearly right but we’re around the corner from ICAS. Just pop in and one of our Physicians will see you.”  

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Big PinkPosted on5:16 pm - Dec 5, 2016


TWM 6 now available at all good iTunes stores 🙂

and here … http://tiny.cc/si4hhy

David Low on Rangers AGM stuff: Paul Goodwin on the very promising role of the Scottish Football Supporters Association, and a piece about Chapecoense, Strict Liability, Robbie Neilson, Brtish league, and the great Jimmy Jack of the Red Lichties.

As usual, it’s the best one yet!

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Paulmac2Posted on5:53 pm - Dec 5, 2016


upthehoopsDecember 4, 2016 at 14:33 
Phil McG suggesting there has been recent talks at Hampden surrounding a European licence.

……………………………………………………..

I did post a few weeks back that there was a strong suggestion down here in the big smoke that certain investors would not put up any more of their OWN hard earned cash due to the deep pockets and short arms of other so called investors.

The licence situation is a puzzle….how can a club who we are supposed to believe is the same club that still has an outstanding debt of approx £168 million…with approx. £98 million of that owed to the taxman…even be considered for a European licence?  

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tony

tonyPosted on5:59 pm - Dec 5, 2016


PAULMAC2
The licence situation is a puzzle….how can a club who we are supposed to believe is the same club that still has an outstanding debt of approx £168 million…with approx. £98 million of that owed to the taxman…even be considered for a European licence?

this is where they say that was old company,utter joke

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Big PinkPosted on6:00 pm - Dec 5, 2016


David Low suggesting that a takeover of TRFC is in the wind.

http://tiny.cc/si4hhy

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tony

tonyPosted on6:04 pm - Dec 5, 2016


BIG PINK
who’s that insane

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Corrupt official

Corrupt officialPosted on6:40 pm - Dec 5, 2016


TONYDECEMBER 5, 2016 at 18:04
BIG PINKwho’s that insane
   —————————————
  Charlie Chuckles? 21

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SmugasPosted on6:41 pm - Dec 5, 2016


I’ve had that suspicion for a while.  You could actually understand a (and this is not to give any credence to the latest taxi driver’s mate’s story) a brand like red bull taking a punt to be associated with a glorious chase and, of course, even more glorious victory out of it.  Question is how do you buy out the present ransom demanders, fund the journey (again) AND see a return at the end? Of course Mike would be mad not to be on the bandwagon, possibly under a pseudo company and that would help, but the basic arithmetic would still seem questionable, no?  And what if the victory isn’t forthcoming?  What if your ‘wings’ only fly as high as second?  How long is that deemed acceptable?

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tony

tonyPosted on6:57 pm - Dec 5, 2016


CORRUPT OFFICIAL
wouldnt mind being that insane i get to live in the big hoose in france 

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StevieBC

StevieBCPosted on8:34 pm - Dec 5, 2016


The SFA trying to act like a proper governing body re: the child abuse allegations reported by the BBC, and referred to in the latest SFA statement. 

It’s been plain to see for everyone in recent years that the SFA is incompetent and corrupt, and seemingly impervious to public opinion.
So why should this organisation suddenly find the ability to operate in a proper, responsible and sensitive manner wrt serious allegations involving young football players ?

And, IMO, it is rather telling in the SFA’s ’20/20 Strategy Vision’ that there are 4 pillars; 

“The plan encompasses four strategic pillars:
• Perform and Win
• Strong Quality Growth
• Better financial returns
• Respected and Trusted to Lead”

But perhaps the first pillar should deal with the basics;

• Providing a safe and secure environment for all participants. [?]

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Cluster One

Cluster OnePosted on9:07 pm - Dec 5, 2016


http://podcast.sfm.scot/e/twm-episode-6/
Very informative and a good listen

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Cygnus X-1Posted on10:51 pm - Dec 5, 2016


Thoroughly enjoyed listening to the podcast, especially David Low’s segment.However, my breath was taken away by his suggestion that somebody could possibly make an offer for a controlling stake in the PLC.  And it got me thinking, what would be the bottom line figure, if such a thing was to take place?
It was interesting and revealing that David spoke about control, using Fergus, as an example, so one would presume that any such person, would have to repay the existing shareholders and Directors, for their loan amounts firstly? £10-16M, depending on who one believes?
Then, purchase their shareholding, at a price to be agreed? Anywhere between 10p-70p per share?
Would that then take the successful person above the 29.9% figure? How much are they are out of pocket at this point?
Then, they would need a capital figure and budget to begin repairing a dilapidated stadium and surrounding environment.
Factor in the costs of maintaining player budgets, expanding & improving scouting, medical services etc and that’s before we’ve even entered into negotiations with General Ashley, about the retail deal?
I’m not an Accountant, but it seems(to me) that there are huge hurdles and barriers to be dealt with, before such a scenario could present?
Unless of course, there is such an individual, out there, who is wealthy enough to take such a hit?

 
  

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goosygoosyPosted on10:59 pm - Dec 5, 2016


CYGNUS X-1DECEMBER 5, 2016 at 22:51  Thoroughly enjoyed listening to the podcast, especially David Low’s segment.However, my breath was taken away by his suggestion that somebody could possibly make an offer for a controlling stake in the PLC.  And it got me thinking, what would be the bottom line figure, if such a thing was to take place?It was interesting and revealing that David spoke about control, using Fergus, as an example, so one would presume that any such person, would have to repay the existing shareholders and Directors, for their loan amounts firstly? £10-16M, depending on who one believes?Then, purchase their shareholding, at a price to be agreed? Anywhere between 10p-70p per share?Would that then take the successful person above the 29.9% figure? How much are they are out of pocket at this point?Then, they would need a capital figure and budget to begin repairing a dilapidated stadium and surrounding environment.Factor in the costs of maintaining player budgets, expanding & improving scouting, medical services etc and that’s before we’ve even entered into negotiations with General Ashley, about the retail deal?I’m not an Accountant, but it seems(to me) that there are huge hurdles and barriers to be dealt with, before such a scenario could present?Unless of course, there is such an individual, out there, who is wealthy enough to take such a hit?
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Dermot Desmond?

Please……………

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Paulmac2Posted on1:09 am - Dec 6, 2016


If and it is a big if…the suggestion someone or group might want a controlling interest in a financially distressed monster…the experience tells us to look beyond the obvious….

No serious above board businessman would touch this cash destroyer to run it as a football business…therefore is this another internally manufactured story that creates temporary distraction. most possibly.

A loss making business with a major capital expenditure required for maintenance of the stadium, no meaningful merchandise revenue stream for the next 7 years, major upcoming payments for players to settle, Garner, Barton, O’halloran

Buying it as a job lot minus debts…a £1
 

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Paulmac2Posted on1:17 am - Dec 6, 2016


So Mr. Cathro appears to be a target for the SMSM and he has only stepped into the job…wonder why…did they want a favoured placeman appointed….Eck…wee Bazza…McCall…anybody who can follow the script?
Anne Budge is not your typical owner who can be influenced by the corrupt SMSM…

Hope the guy does well…except when they play Celtic of course…

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Pat ByrnePosted on1:20 am - Dec 6, 2016


Wonderful piece on BBC Storyvile about Beiter Jerusalem and the unbelievable racism that is rife there, even worse that eufa are totally ineffective in dealing with it on any level, the parallels with a club from Govan won’t be lost on anyone taking the time to watch this brilliant piece of journalism. The beeb would do well to take a leaf out of the book of these guys and apply it to some investigative initiative nearer home. A bit like the SFA and the current abuse scandal, do you honestly think they would be doing anything about it if it hadn’t broken south of the border first? a wee tour round the trophy room at Hampden in their eyes would suffice by the sounds of things

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Corrupt official

Corrupt officialPosted on2:31 am - Dec 6, 2016


  Ian Cathro’s appointment looks like he may be here to inject some fresh ideas into the game. Time will tell how successful his tenure will be, but either way, there is no doubting he has raised anxiety to Level 5 in one particular boardroom. I

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Corrupt official

Corrupt officialPosted on3:02 am - Dec 6, 2016


Apologies, missed the edit time.
     It would appear some folk are going to make it as difficult for him to succeed as possible. I suppose in some quarters, it would make sense that if you feel another gap may be opening, that you attempt to stump its growth. It would be a sad state of affairs to see how little regard there is, for the progression of our sport by some. He is Hearts choice, and someone they have clearly targeted. Let them get on with it in peace. 
    But it did get me thinking. Both Aberdeen and I think Hearts have made particular mention of FFP in their accounts. Both are embarking on massive stadium enhancement works. Celtic have little need to do either. 
   Whispers are a constant at the moment, about some form of new cross border leagues, and it does appear to be under serious discussion. Is somebody afraid they will miss the boat? (If there is such a boat). 
    It does appear that some are making sure their passports are up to date, while others are left to dream at the adverts on the telly, having blown their tanks.
  What would be the entrance criteria for such a league?

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John ClarkPosted on5:51 am - Dec 6, 2016


It’s 28 degrees here in Agnes Water,Queensland, where mrs c and I are sharing our son and family’s family Holiday house ( sadly, only a 2 week rental, not actually his). very nicely appointed,self-contained detached house with10 metre pool, andthe beach about a child’s( or 4 small children’s ) scooter ride away. Lovely spot,as yet unspoiled.
It’s about 3.30 pm, Mrs C siesta-ing, family away  at the beach, and me having a very welcome Fat Yak, having just brought myself up-to-date,including listening to the latest very, very good podcast .John Cole is a natural, in my opinion, and finding out about Cathro’s appointment.
Low seemed to dismiss the possibility of an engineered Administration out of hand.but he did not give any view on whether there might be a forced administration, although he made the point that the TRFC board couldn’t sensibly carry on sustaining losses and begging for loans.Makes me wonder whether there might be some substance to the take-over rumours.
Red Bull would certainly have the dosh to spend..

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zam1Posted on6:41 am - Dec 6, 2016


I believe the owner of Red Bull is a self confessed “Irish fenian”, can anyone tell me otherwise ?

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upthehoopsPosted on7:09 am - Dec 6, 2016


CORRUPT OFFICIALDECEMBER 6, 2016 at 02:31 
  Ian Cathro’s appointment looks like he may be here to inject some fresh ideas into the game. Time will tell how successful his tenure will be, but either way, there is no doubting he has raised anxiety to Level 5 in one particular boardroom. 

============================

Ironically Cathro’s name was elevated in status around the time he was linked with the manager’s job at Ibrox in 2015. Both BBC and STV saw fit to do interviews with him, and the written media spoke well of this young, very talented coach. Now some of the same people are casting doubt on whether he is the right man for Hearts, and some have even derided him.  Hearts right now seem a great opportunity for a young coach with fresh ideas. They have a stable board, a large support, and a very good stadium which will soon be even better. Better to take a chance with Cathro than some of the failed old boys network in Scottish football. I have a distinct feeling Tynecastle was being viewed by many in the media as somewhere for Barry Ferguson to cut his teeth before moving to Ibrox. They simply can’t wait to say ‘I told you so’ with Cathro. I hope he has big shoulders and a thick skin. He will need them.

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joburgt1mPosted on7:46 am - Dec 6, 2016


ZAM1DECEMBER 6, 2016 at 06:41 
I believe the owner of Red Bull is a self confessed “Irish fenian”, can anyone tell me otherwise ?
——————————-
The owner of Red Bull is Dietrich Mateschitz.
He was born in Austria but both his parents are Croatian.
Croatia is a predominantly catholic country which is where I think you were going with your question.
Lets see how the billy boys like that one.

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Allyjambo

AllyjamboPosted on8:12 am - Dec 6, 2016


Corrupt officialDecember 6, 2016 at 02:31 
  Ian Cathro’s appointment looks like he may be here to inject some fresh ideas into the game. Time will tell how successful his tenure will be, but either way, there is no doubting he has raised anxiety to Level 5 in one particular boardroom. I

Corrupt officialDecember 6, 2016 at 03:02 
Apologies, missed the edit time.      It would appear some folk are going to make it as difficult for him to succeed as possible. I suppose in some quarters, it would make sense that if you feel another gap may be opening, that you attempt to stump its growth. It would be a sad state of affairs to see how little regard there is, for the progression of our sport by some. He is Hearts choice, and someone they have clearly targeted. Let them get on with it in peace.      But it did get me thinking. Both Aberdeen and I think Hearts have made particular mention of FFP in their accounts. Both are embarking on massive stadium enhancement works. Celtic have little need to do either.     Whispers are a constant at the moment, about some form of new cross border leagues, and it does appear to be under serious discussion. Is somebody afraid they will miss the boat? (If there is such a boat).      It does appear that some are making sure their passports are up to date, while others are left to dream at the adverts on the telly, having blown their tanks.   What would be the entrance criteria for such a league?
________________________________

CO, thanks to your post I now know Hearts have a new head coach, thank you04

I have to say that I am delighted with the news as I’ve come to realise that for any club to be able to mount any sort of challenge to Celtic it needs to have a completely different approach from the tried and tested model. I’m not suggesting Ian Cathro, or any other young (or even older) innovative coach, will make that difference, only time will tell and the gap is most likely too big to bridge, but something different will need to be tried by Hearts, Aberdeen etc if any real challenge is to be made.

Some of the usual suspects in our joke media have been trotting out the strangest choices in opinion givers to deride the (potential at the time) appointment; that can only be a good sign for Hearts!

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zam1Posted on8:39 am - Dec 6, 2016


joburgt1mDecember 6, 2016 at 07:46
————————————–

Thanks, that’s exactly what I was told, the family have an affinity with Republic of Ireland and I was also told they approached CFC 2 years ago regarding a sponsorship deal after we played Salsborg in the Europa League.

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wottpiPosted on10:17 am - Dec 6, 2016


Not wanting to get too hung up on bigging up my own club on SFM but I am excited by the appointment of Cathro at Tynecastle.

As UTH says above it will be interesting to see how the MSM portray him after general positive coverage of the young lads career over the years, including him being linked with many a job in Scotland, including that at T’Rangers.

The thing that is refreshing for me is that Hearts are steering clear of the SFA and the Largs Mafia.

I know the SFA training courses are talked up and I am sure the people are doing their best. However, lets face it. For all the talk of the likes of Mourhino getting their badges at Largs our domestic  game is hardly filled with exciting and innovative coaches. Sometimes it is not the coaches fault as boards are too trigger happy but the product on the park does not lie.

Cathro has done his own thing. Austin MacPhee, if he becomes Cathro’s assistant seems to be of the same mould,  gaining some of his experience elsewhere. 

I know many at Tynie don’t like or are suspicious of Levein. Many think he is too controlling, too inflexible,  a moody so and so, etc.

I see that as a benefit in many ways.

He doesn’t have much time for the SFA (“Its all about Rangers”). His record with Scotland is judged on the ill fated 4-6-0 debacle but he was no worse than the reappointed Strachan (ill prepared for Georgia, Lithuania etc) and he had a poor record in a World Cup qualifying group that included Belgium and Wales who have since developed to the extent they are currently ranked 5 and 12 in the world respectively.

I think Levein had an overall plan for Scotland and because of various circumstances he was not given the opportunity to deliver it.

If he gets Cathro and possibly MacPhee from under the SFA’s noses, then Scotland’s loss is Hearts gain as, guided by Budge and Levein,  they have the potential to benefit from such a medium to long term strategy with the emphasis being on modern coaching methods and development of a decent youth structure and hopefully home grown talent.

As always time will tell but exciting times ahead at Tynie as far as I am concerned.

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Corrupt official

Corrupt officialPosted on10:46 am - Dec 6, 2016


ALLYJAMBODECEMBER 6, 2016 at 08:12
    “CO, thanks to your post I now know Hearts have a new head coach, thank you”
    ——————————————————————————————————————————
   Matt Leslie did an imformative piece on his arrival AJ. 
http://mattleslie74.weebly.com/blog/progress-makes-dinosaurs-panic

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Charlie_KellyPosted on11:41 am - Dec 6, 2016


The appointment of Cathro is certainly an ambitious and bold move. The reaction of the MSM and the old school ‘jobs for the boys’ brigade is entirely predictable. “show’s yer medals” etc….
But a quick glance around the top jobs in the UK would appear to show that Hearts have not made such a crazy appointment. For the purposes of this post, when I say “top jobs” I am talking in terms of expectation, media spotlight, fanbase etc… not necessarily current league standings.
So the top jobs (as I see it anyway) are Celtic, Man Utd, Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea, Man City, Spurs.
Of those seven jobs – Rodgers, Wenger & Mourinho never kicked a ball in anger in professional football. The highest level Jurgen Klopp played at was the Bundesliga 2.  Guardiola & Conte had glittering playing careers (by anyones criteria) and Pochetino had a successful career. Even then Only Guardiola walked straight in to a top job upon retiring. Conte & Pochetino coached and managed at lower levels and gradually worked their way up the ladder. The same goes for the others mentioned. They all began with small jobs (youth coach, coach) at big clubs or managerial jobs at small clubs. Only Pep Guardiola walked straight in to a top managerial job
So the conclusion I would draw from this (admittedly extremely small sample size) is that having a successful playing career is neither here nor there when it comes to predicting managerial success. A much better indicator is your coaching CV. Cathro has 8 years coaching experience at various youth and first team levels at Dundee Utd, Rio Ave, Valencia & Newcastle. This easily stacks up against the early coaching careers of Mourinho, Wenger and Co. 
Of course none of this is any guarantee of success. Football is littered with failed managerial appointments that looked like the ideal appointment at the time. Moyes & LVG at Man Utd in recent years both looked to have the credentials for the job but failed miserably. Mourinho could be on the verge of making it 3 for 3 on that front if results don’t pick up soon. So Cathro is by no means sure to be a success but by the same token it is obvious that Hearts have done their homework and haven’t just gone down the tired old “appoint a former fans favourite” road like John Robertson, Paul Hartley etc… 
Hearts deserve credit for at least trying to unearth the next Wenger/Rodgers/Mourinho. Time will tell if they have done so or not.

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erniePosted on1:06 pm - Dec 6, 2016


Talking of takeover rumours at Ibrox I laughed at GoosyG’s suggestion of Desmond but it also struck a chord.
On the drive back from Hampden last week, having nothing else to talk about (!), we were brainstorming various fitba issues as one does. On the subject of “how does the current Rangers get back to anywhere near where they believe they are entitled to be” we had only one feasible solution.  Someone needs to buy Celtic and Rangers.  Clear out the spivs and deadwood at Ibrox, split the assets and run the two teams as separate entities.  Give it a few years and they would be competing with each other and titles would be shared out even if not 50/50 then enough to keep the supporters warm.  The SFA would be happy (tbh they’d be fecking ecstatic!) as would the media as they would have their beloved news story back.  The diddies wouldn’t notice any difference, the odd cup win would keep it “honest”.
We acknowledged that there would be some issues of multiple ownership with this new firm (see what I did there?) but surely a way would be found: the SFA would help, they’d sell their souls for it.
Yours in sport.
ernie

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vascodaparsPosted on1:06 pm - Dec 6, 2016


Jock Stein wasn’t a great player but he did play in the top Scottish league and intoduced a lot of new thinking to the Scottish game.

Won Dunfermline the Scottish Cup after a miraculous escape from relegation. Then did OK with a team from Glasgow.

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ChristyboyPosted on1:57 pm - Dec 6, 2016


CHARLIE_KELLYDECEMBER 6, 2016 at 11:41

“Cathro has 8 years coaching experience at various youth and first team levels at Dundee Utd, Rio Ave, Valencia & Newcastle.”

Aye, but has he got a magic hat ????? Managers need one these days, and of course city trading experience……

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Big PinkPosted on2:25 pm - Dec 6, 2016


Scottish Football Supporters Association awards – get voting!

http://tiny.cc/8k7ihy

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easyJamboPosted on2:36 pm - Dec 6, 2016


This got stuck in the spam folder folks. Apologies to EJ. I thought it might be informative – given it is riven with the usual half truths.
BP

Here’s the full story from the Record

Dave King loses chance to weaken Mike Ashley’s Rangers influence after legend Ally McCoist failed to vote on vital resolution
 
“The former Rangers manager failed to vote on Resolution 11 which would failed to be successful by just 1%”
 
“Dave King’s bid to weaken Mike Ashley’s influence at Rangers has been thwarted – after Ally McCoist failed to vote on a vital AGM resolution.
The Record understands that chairman King failed by less than one per cent to win 75 per cent of ­shareholder approval for his boardroom plan, known as Resolution 11.
It would have allowed the board to ­introduce a new shares issue next year but give King and Co the mandate to allocate shares as they saw fit.
McCoist, who owns about 1.25 per cent of the Ibrox outfit, could have pushed the vote over the line and helped dilute the influence of Sports Direct owner Ashley and his allies the Easdale brothers at the club.”
 
“However, he did not cast a vote at Friday’s AGM and neither, for the second year in a row, did former chairman Malcolm Murray, who owns about 0.25 per cent of Rangers.
It is unclear why McCoist failed to vote. If Resolution 11 was passed, it would have seen his shareholding diluted by half without him making 
a fresh cash injection.
There is anger and disbelief at Rangers 
boardroom level at the actions of McCoist, in particular, who was awarded penny shares by former chief executive Charles Green.
Ibrox followers will also be dismayed at the action of their greatest goalscorer in failing to support a board widely seen by Rangers supporters as having the best interests of the club at heart.”
 
“McCoist’s failure to vote will disappoint King, who backed his friend during most of 2015, when he was on gardening leave after quitting as manager the previous December.
Many fans felt McCoist should have ripped up his £750,000-a-year contract when King’s regime took over the club last year.
However, the South African-based tycoon argued the former manager and first team coach was right to expect his contract be respected and honoured in full.
Had Resolution 11 been passed, Rangers were expected to exclude Ashley and the Easdales from the offering, which would have diluted their collective share by half to about eight per cent.”
 
“A similar resolution at last year’s AGM failed by 1.2 per cent, but the fact it is closer this year will be a source of frustration to the board.
They are still expected to give the go-ahead to raise cash after another resolution was passed by more than 50 per cent of shareholders.
However, Ashley and all shareholders, will be offered a chance to buy shares at least to the level of their current holding.
 
McCoist and Murray 
declined to comment.”

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Big PinkPosted on2:54 pm - Dec 6, 2016


Ernie,

I know you weren’t being serious, but people like Desmond have money because they make good choices with what they have. A frivolous purchase would demean the game further and tarnish his own reputation.

I think there is a serious possibility that someone like Kennedy could come in and try to gain control.

Consider this too. If David Low is correct, and the 81 000 000 shares go for 10p, is that enough to pay off the loans? And don’t forget that they would most likely have to offer to buy around 40 000 000 additional shares at around 27p since they would have a controlling stake and be forced to make an offer to existing shareholders.

And there still isn’t any new money for projects. It is a very difficult position. An outside buyer with actual money who could gain control and still be bold enough to invest properly in the team ( I still don’t believe the rumours of structural meltdown) then progress would be accelerated. 

The current lot have no interest in making Rangers competitive imo – they are interested in wringing out of it whatever Green has left un-wrung. They are selling snake oil to the fans whilst eyeing up the cash in supporters coffers.

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erniePosted on3:19 pm - Dec 6, 2016


BP.  We were, of course, joking in a vain attempt to avoid thinking about the tanking our team got. However, it is a viable plan excluding Desmond; our thoughts were along the lines of a non fitba investor who could milk a new firm franchise with guaranteed Euroqualification on top.

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StevieBC

StevieBCPosted on3:22 pm - Dec 6, 2016


WOTTPI
DECEMBER 6, 2016 at 10:17… 
I am excited by the appointment of Cathro at Tynecastle.

The thing that is refreshing for me is that Hearts are steering clear of the SFA and the Largs Mafia…
=========================================================================

Well it would appear to any reasonable person that whatever they are teaching at Largs, it’s inadequate – judging by the regression of Scottish football in the last 20/30 years.

So well done to Hearts for bringing in a ‘fresh face’, who will hopefully shake things up and other Scottish managers / coaches may learn something from his own approach to the game ?

Admittedly, I had never heard of the guy until “he was linked” by the desperate SMSM to TRFC when he was at Valencia.
[Hmmm, Valencia or TRFC…tough choice…  15]

Cathro must be decent to have the clubs he has on his CV, you would think ?

Good luck to the young chap.

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zam1Posted on4:02 pm - Dec 6, 2016


In regards to a take over at TRIFC.
If anyone has £50million to lose right away then good, that only buys the existing shares, pays off the secured loans and fix’s the stands.
They would need a further £30million investment on players.
I hear some deluded people say MA is still in the loop,,,,really !!!!!! after what the TRIFC have called him and did to him and his company ?????
A billionaire would not throw close to £100million at a Scottish football team that is a fact guys, it would take a “multi billionaire” to even consider it.
Jim McColl is a billionaire and a TRIFC fan, even he wouldn’t touch it with a barg pole.

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bordersdonPosted on4:02 pm - Dec 6, 2016


                       Big PinkDecember 6, 2016 at 14:54 
Ernie,
I know you weren’t being serious, but people like Desmond have money because they make good choices with what they have.
=====================================================
And in the case of DD and others have very “efficient” tax arrangements! 19

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easyJamboPosted on5:55 pm - Dec 6, 2016


Big Pink December 6, 2016 at 14:54

I think there is a serious possibility that someone like Kennedy could come in and try to gain control.
Consider this too. If David Low is correct, and the 81 000 000 shares go for 10p, is that enough to pay off the loans? And don’t forget that they would most likely have to offer to buy around 40 000 000 additional shares at around 27p since they would have a controlling stake and be forced to make an offer to existing shareholders.
=======================
When I listened to the podcast, I had picked up the problem with pricing a share issue as low as 10p, as it would only raise £8.1m, when the loans figure in the accounts was £10m, with a further £2.9m borrowed in October.

I don’t know where they would pitch an offer, but I’d think it would have to be in the region of 20p in order to raise enough to cover the loans.

If, for instance, they offered a 1 for 1 share offer at 20p then the 81m shares would raise an maximum of £16.2m.  That would be enough to pay off the loans and enable Club 1872 to be relieved of the funds currently burning a hole in their bank account.  However it would need the loanees to underwrite the issue up to the value of their loans and for Club 1872 to underwrite up to their bank balance.

I can’t see anyone other than the loanees and Club 1872 subscribing for new shares. Any share issue is likely to result in the Ashley/Easdale block being diminished by dilution, as the Board and their lackeys increase their their proportionate shareholdings to the extent that Ashley and Easdale can no longer affect the Board’s direction.  In that circumstance I can’t see Ashley or Easdale putting in new cash into the club.

I’ve done some calculations on the basis of a 1 for 1 share offer at 20p, with  the loanees of the £10.25M debts, listed the accounts, underwriting their balances in full and Club 1872 “investing” up to £1.5m in new cash. Such a scenario would see the following changes in shareholdings:
New Oasis (King) from 14.6% to 21.8%
RRM (Taylor, Letham, Ross, Scott, Murdoch) 13.4% to 21.8%
Directors (Park, Murray, Bennett) 6.2% to 12.4%
Club 1872 6.3% to 9.1%
Mash 8.9% down to 5.2%
S Easdale 6.5% down to 3.8%

The club would still have the problem that only £1.5m would be raised in new money.  However it would probably make the club more saleable to a prospective new owner or investor who wants something close to a controlling interest.

How much would it cost?  At 20p a share the business would be worth a nominal £28m.  I can’t see anyone investing that much for a loss making business without a credit line to a bank.  However I could see King walking away by selling his share of the business for around £7m-£8m which would give him a small profit on his “investment”.

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easyJamboPosted on6:07 pm - Dec 6, 2016


Re Hearts new appointments, I’m delighted to see the club not being afraid to move away from the stereotypical former player or experienced manager model.  Any appointment of a new coach isn’t without risk, nor is this one, but I don’t see much of of a downside to it, while the upside could be significant if all goes to plan.

I enjoyed Ewan Murray’s article in the Guardian about the appointments and his views on the doubters.  Its’ actually refreshing to see quite a few of the independent thinking hacks supporting the appointment, while those PR inspired Level 5th columnists who continue to question it remain in the dark age.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2016/dec/06/scottish-football-hearts-ian-cathro-sfa-malky-mackay?CMP=share_btn_tw     

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upthehoopsPosted on6:37 pm - Dec 6, 2016


This is a very good article from Ewan Murray re Hearts new managerial appointment. Murray never hides the fact he is a Hearts fan, but he speaks much sense here in my view. 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2016/dec/06/scottish-football-hearts-ian-cathro-sfa-malky-mackay

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Cluster One

Cluster OnePosted on6:42 pm - Dec 6, 2016


EASYJAMBODECEMBER 6, 2016 at 17:55       Rate This 
Big Pink December 6, 2016 at 14:54
When I listened to the podcast,I had a a couple of questions running around my head and did not know how to get them down.
like this one from above..since they would have a controlling stake and be forced to make an offer to existing shareholders.

Would that be a forced offer to buy the whole club/company.
———————–
Thanks EASYJAMBO as your post was very informative with listening to the podcast

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Homunculus

HomunculusPosted on6:47 pm - Dec 6, 2016


EASYJAMBO
DECEMBER 6, 2016 at 17:55
==============================

Would there be any point in diluting MASH to 5.2%, they could still call general meetings, put forwards resolutions to be voted on etc.

In addition, the £1.5m new money, is that net of any expenses for the offer or is that the total figure. Realistically they could have a share issue which brings in less than £1 once expenses are met.

In fact, the loans in the accounts may be £10.25m or so, but post the accounts they have admitted to requiring another £3.75m during this financial year. In reality they are looking at £14 to clear loans.

I suppose it might be worthwhile. They could dilute the enemies, get over 75%, have an EGM and vote on pre-emption again. Then when that passes they can sell shares to Club 1872 (and anyone else) as soon as they have funds to buy them. It would all be rather obvious though. 

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Cluster One

Cluster OnePosted on7:15 pm - Dec 6, 2016


When David Low said and if i remember right, the board could call an EGM and try and get Res 11 passed,and if it never got passed they could then call another EGM again and again until it got passed,but would be very costly.
Will the board try and get res 11 passed before any court cases that could give a shareholder a bad name.Who would buy shares in a company when something bad may have come from a court case. was a recent court case that has been kicked down the road, have been a blessing for the board.will the board try and get res 11 passed so they can sell shares before any court case comes along next year,is what i’m trying to say.or does it not matter either way

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easyJamboPosted on7:21 pm - Dec 6, 2016


Homunculus December 6, 2016 at 18:47
======================
You are right about the costs of a share offer.  It was a back of a fag-packet calculation (well a spreadsheet really) with regard to what is possible.

It is not dilution below 5% that is key for King. it is simply to ensure that the Ashley/Easdale alliance can no longer block special resolutions. That could be related to new share issues, the sale of key assets, takeovers etc. 

The bit that I don’t get is that the option of a share issue to raise funds or do a partial debt for equity swap was available to the Board during the last 12 months but they chose not do so for reasons only known to themselves.

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Homunculus

HomunculusPosted on7:51 pm - Dec 6, 2016


EASYJAMBO
DECEMBER 6, 2016 at 19:21
================================

As I have said before, I think the key for them from the point of view of pre-emption was to get easy access to the Club 1872 money with minimal costs and effort. In that way getting money in, diluting others and strengthening their own position as Club 1872 will vote with the board.

It’s really just agreeing a price for the shares, say 20p. How much money does Club 1872 have, take that amount from them. Multiply it by 5 and give them that number of shares. Repeat as they raise more money. Given that’s what Club 1872 are there for it’s a win /win.

Now they have to muck about with underwriting, proper issues, costs, with nothing guaranteed. 

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bfbpuzzledPosted on8:31 pm - Dec 6, 2016


What do the various Rangers have to show for their loans fundamentally hee haw I believe. Nothing has been done to build potential long term income streams via improved facilities or some other projects. It seems that the assets have declined in value and future fixed costs are likely to rise in the form of deferred maintenance.
There may be a baldrickian plan and opportunity available for some rich tax pauchler but I do not know what it is -perhaps some advice should be sought.

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Homunculus

HomunculusPosted on8:59 pm - Dec 6, 2016


BFBPUZZLED
DECEMBER 6, 2016 at 20:31
==============================

They overspent to keep up with Celtic, to the point of avoiding tens of millions in tax, and failed.

They refused to believe the real size of the new club and simply copied the old failed model of spending more than they were earning.

They have done that from their inception, have posted annual trading losses, and are continuing to do it.

Mike Ashley’s men on the board may have been able to restructure the business and force it towards break even and sustainable growth. Particularly if Ashley himself was willing to support the business in the medium term. The support did not want that, they preferred members of the previous club’s board and the WATP mentality. That the main man was a convicted tax fraudster mattered not one jot. He fitted the profile and said what they wanted to hear.

I genuinely believe that Ashley along with his men on the board was their real chance to create a sustainable business. Not only did they not understand that, they did everything they could to alienate him. They will reap what they have sown. Such a perfect day.

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jean7brodie

jean7brodiePosted on9:07 pm - Dec 6, 2016


HomunculusDecember 6, 2016 at 20:59
_____________________________________________
Oh, it’s such a perfect day  I’m glad I spent it with you  Oh, such a perfect day  You just keep me hanging on…

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Pat ByrnePosted on11:28 pm - Dec 6, 2016


At the end of the day a pound is worth a pound! if you want to break it down to its basic structure you can say there are one hundred pence in that pound, you can speculate and say well, if I buy 25 pence worth I might make a wee profit here if the value of the pound goes up, but wait a minute here, nobody told me that the guy that owned the original pound bought a basket of oranges that were past their sell by date and now he can only sell them to make jam, wtf? well it goes back to simple economics, unless you can find a buyer who is willing to speculate and say ‘hey, these oranges could make damn good Cointreau but we might need to wait a few years, either that or we fire out some cheap marmalade and make a skin until the punters realise it’s shite. At the end of the day the club/company is worth what it’s worth, any business man knows the basics and will not pay over the odds, especially when that basket comes with excess luggage.

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Big PinkPosted on11:36 pm - Dec 6, 2016


EJ.
That’s the point I was making in the podcast. They gave a chance to raise cash to pay the loans (at least partially) but that is not the point for King. All about getting control.
Incidentally, David’s 10p estimate was based on shares currently at around 20p. To maintain the market value the new shares would likely be at a significant discount to current prices, although if forced to make an offer they may have to pay over 20p for the other shares.
It’s a huge lavvy pan if a puzzle.

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The Cat NR1

The Cat NR1Posted on12:51 am - Dec 7, 2016


bfbpuzzledDecember 6, 2016 at 20:31
What do the various Rangers have to show for their loans fundamentally hee haw I believe. Nothing has been done to build potential long term income streams via improved facilities or some other projects. It seems that the assets have declined in value and future fixed costs are likely to rise in the form of deferred maintenance. There may be a baldrickian plan and opportunity available for some rich tax pauchler but I do not know what it is -perhaps some advice should be sought.
===================================
I suspect that rather than one of Baldrick’s cunning plans, they will go with the tried and tested Earl Haig’s underpants over the head and pencils up the nostrils. And we all know how that ended up.
It wasn’t the admininistration and liquidation to end all administrations and liquidations though. Deja vu?

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The Cat NR1

The Cat NR1Posted on11:31 am - Dec 7, 2016


Any chance of this happening in Scotland?
http://www.fsf.org.uk/blog/view/mp-calls-for-government-to-clean-up-game-edm-nov-2016

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AmFearLiathMòr

AmFearLiathMòrPosted on1:41 pm - Dec 7, 2016


Re : Kris Boyd on Cathro

Just catching up with Boyd’s comments on the new Hearts boss – absolutely incredible…… and yet, not surprising.  We are, after all, talking about the guy who indirectly triggered the death of Rangers when faced with a similar situation.

Cast your minds back to 2006.  Rangers had appointed Paul Le Guen, a relatively young, well thought of, innovative and technically brilliant coach, with the idea being that he would coach players, including Scottish youngsters, into being better, and thereby saving Rangers a packet in having to buy the finished article every time.  However, it was going sour for him, due to a couple of dodgy results, but mostly Scottish Footballers being resistant to him and his fancy-dan,continental ways… like eating properly, not bevvying your way through a weekend, and expecting you to be technically good enough to not actually have a specialised position.  Foremost among those brave footsoldiers fighting against progress was one Kris Boyd.  Thanks to him and Bazza etc. Le Guen was put in an impossible position, and when David Murray sided with the players against the manager, he ensured that no half decent European manager worth his salt would touch Rangers with a bargepole again.  This lead to the return of Walter Smith, and we all know Walter loves a cheque book! Out went the idea of coaching players and saving transfer fees and wages (perhaps, y’know, ‘for a rainy day’), and in came splurging money they didn’t have on players they couldn’t afford, and the rest is history.

What should have happened was that Murray should have cleared out those resistant to le Guen’s methods, and come clean with the fans that Le Guen needed time for his ideas to bed in, because they couldn’t afford not to.  You only have to look at the progress that youngsters like Hutton and Adams made to realise what could have been possible.

It’s the same with Hearts – Cathro might need a little while to bed in, but you don’t gather the plaudits that he has without at least having a modicum of talent. The idea that Boyd would scoff at someone who thinks deeply about the game, and employs modern technology in the pursuit of excellence says more about Boyd than any empty packet of monster munch ever could. I’m sure he probably thinks that coaching is over-rated, and that ‘the team that drinks together, wins together’ still holds true, and that shouting at players is the only way to inspire them.
My fear is that the second Hearts falter in any way, he’ll be leapt on as proof of ‘See?!? See?!?’ – fortunately, Hearts seem to be the sort of side that give short shrift to naysayers in the media anyway.
I hope it works out, but either way, kudos to Hearts for at least trying to progress the way things are done in Scotland.

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StevieBC

StevieBCPosted on3:48 pm - Dec 7, 2016


“Celtic made £27.5million from Champions League and that’s BEFORE gate receipts”

This striking headline appears in the DR today.
You can almost feel their pain, and the urge to add;
“…and it’s just not fair !

If numbers are correct, [who am I to doubt the DR’s accuracy ?], then it clearly shows how far ahead CFC is from the rest of Scottish football.

And as PMcG commented on Twitter, this number alone is close to the full RIFC turnover, [which was £22million for the year to June 30, 2016].
That certainly puts CFC’s progress this season into perspective.

Don’t think the management will now go on a spending spree, but would maybe regard this payday as a ‘bonus’ and use the money prudently, and to further ensure the long-term, financial health of the club.

I would guess that ‘most’ other Scottish clubs would take the same cautious approach with such a windfall ?

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SmugasPosted on4:16 pm - Dec 7, 2016


I would expect tomorrow’s headline to be “How the rest of Scotlands Clubs lost ‘us’ the 2nd CL place AFTER their hate filled demotion of Rangers”

but of course they can’t.  Because they’ve already used that one for some other misleading point they were making!

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Bogs DolloxPosted on4:20 pm - Dec 7, 2016


STEVIEBC

 
 
 
 
 

 

2 Votes

“Celtic made £27.5million from Champions League and that’s BEFORE gate receipts”
This striking headline appears in the DR today.You can almost feel their pain, and the urge to add;“…and it’s just not fair !
If numbers are correct, [who am I to doubt the DR’s accuracy ?], then it clearly shows how far ahead CFC is from the rest of Scottish football.
And as PMcG commented on Twitter, this number alone is close to the full RIFC turnover, [which was £22million for the year to June 30, 2016].That certainly puts CFC’s progress this season into perspective.
Don’t think the management will now go on a spending spree, but would maybe regard this payday as a ‘bonus’ and use the money prudently, and to further ensure the long-term, financial health of the club.
I would guess that ‘most’ other Scottish clubs would take the same cautious approach with such a windfall ?

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Celtic could ensure the long term health of the club by sharing out the spoils of Europe with to strengthen the rest of Scottish football. They won’t as they are not focused on Scottish football. I believe they are now planning to open up such a huge gap with other clubs that their presence in Scotland becomes untenable and leaving becomes almost a no brainer. Where they end up isn’t clear at the moment.

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