Peace – Not War

ByTrisidium

Peace – Not War

We normally don’t talk about on-field stuff on SFM, but given the over-optimistic coverage of the prospects of TRFC (particularly in the ESJ © The Clumpany  and DR) it is worth noting that since they beat Celtic on penalties in last year’s Scottish Cup semi final, they have played in four huge games which were real barometers of progress ;

  • Hibs in the Scottish Cup Final: 2-3
  • Celtic in the Premiership: 1-5
  • Aberdeen in the Premiership: 1-2
  • Celtic in the League Cup Semi-Final: 0-1

On each occasion, they have failed the test, not only by failing to get a result, but by being second best in most on-field departments.

The point is not one of wider Schadenfreude, or even an in-depth critique of the abilities of the team or manager, but of how the TRFC board and the MSM, in falsely inflating their side’s prospects, do a disservice to TRFC fans. Aided and abetted it seems by the manager who – even allowing for the positive spin managers need to put on things post defeat – is refusing to accept reality.

We often talk about turnover as the yardstick by which performance can be (roughly) measured. If that were the only yardstick, one would expect TRFC to be right up there with Celtic. But it is more complicated than that. For Celtic and TRFC, there are massive overheads (e.g. stadium costs) that have to be dealt with and taken out of the equation before Glasgow apples can be compared with Aberdeen and Edinburgh varieties.

Even allowing for that it seems pretty clear to me that TRFC have more disposable income (for spending on players and contracts) than Hearts or Aberdeen for example, but the gap is now not as great as raw turnover figures would suggest  – and the margins are probably slim enough that they can be easily blurred by managers at other clubs who have a good grasp of tactics, an eye for a player, and a proper understanding of football psychology.

To compound the problem for TRFC, there are two rather large eggs in the TRFC transfer basket which are now cracked or broken.  A dangerous waste of resources in fact. Whether it was Warburton or King who went to the market for Barton and Kranjčar is irrelevant. More relevant is the reason marquee signings like these were made.

Once a manager is recruited, you stay out of his domain

Yes, Barton’s signature in particular has used a huge chunk of the already scant budget, and that is a real blow to the manager’s planning, but the real problem is that the club has deliberately pushed fan expectations skyward, all of which is counter-intuitive given the rough calculations in the preceding paragraphs. More worryingly for Rangers fans, the board’s own expectations for the playing side are unrealistically high – and given the business expertise contained therein, puzzlingly so.

TRFC is a focal point for tens of thousands of people. The people who run the club are also influential opinion formers and how they set the tone for those thousands is important.

Tub-rattling, dog-whistling, and the WATP mentality have been employed almost exclusively thus far in the ‘journey’. All of which may have rallied the troops and provided a welcome injection of funds, but it also antagonised almost every football fan in the country who wasn’t a Rangers follower. And in view of how those funds (including the £21m IPO) seemingly disappeared into the ether, did it really help the club realise any ambitions going forward?

TRFC are looking up at the north face of a financial Eiger today

I can’t help feeling that had they been replaced with humility, some regret, and gratitude to those who smoothed their path into the leagues, then the view from the club deck would a lot more attractive today than it is.

The journey could have been an expansive one bent on winning friends along the way, clearly differentiating itself from the Murray era, and carrying assurances that the new Rangers would never treat the game in Scotland as shabbily as its predecessor.

Seems intuitively obvious to me that a mission statement like the following would win hearts and minds;

“The latter-day custodians of Rangers have destroyed our club and shamed its traditions of sporting integrity, fair play, and honest endeavour.

“However the ethos and identity of our club will not be allowed to slip into obscurity.

“We will build a club worthy of the traditions of sporting integrity and fair play. It will be open and accessible to people of all colours, creeds and nationalities,

“It will be a long journey, but it is one which we relish, and one which will in time restore Rangers to the upper echelons of the game“

Managing expectations realistically with a ‘we are thankful to keep the Rangers name alive’ would have played better with the bears.

I don’t believe there is a football fan in the world who wouldn’t sign up to that had they found their club in the same circumstances as 2011 Rangers. I don’t believe that Rangers fans are any different either, but the problem is that their moral compass is being calibrated by people whose past records make them least qualified for the task.

Instead of a plan to win Scottish football over, we got boycotts, victim-hood, denial, and that wonderful new oxymoronic idiom, post-liquidation. Really though, it should all have been so different.

Water bills notwithstanding, TRFC are looking up at the north face of a financial Eiger today, but they chose to climb an Eiger instead of a Munro, and they sold false hope and snake oil to the fans on the way.

They have no money with which to recruit players of sufficient quality to challenge at the top. They are facing a massive bill for repairs and maintenance of a stadium that has atrophied under six or seven years of neglect. They have similar infrastructure problems at their training ground. They need to build a scouting infrastructure which currently consists of one man and several local volunteers. Their income from merchandising is non-existent due to a testicles-drawn dispute with Sports Direct. They owe several millions of pounds of soft loans which they cannot convert to equity because of that same dispute, and the people they have gone back to again and again for top-up finance have ever shortening arms and lengthening pockets.

.. we understand the value that Rangers can bring to the to the Scottish game and we want it to be realised.

Miracles of course do happen, perhaps in the shape of a magician manager who can get them access to European cash almost immediately. Unless that comes to pass, there is no way forward for Dave King and his board, other than to make peace immediately with Sports Direct and actually stump up the cash he promised two years ago; cash he promised to bridge the resources gap which is widening by the week.

A widely accepted wisdom in many football boardrooms these days is that the main recruitment priority of any board is an excellent manager. A really good manager can make a team out of ordinary players, but a poor manager will have difficulty sculpting a winning side from even very good players.  So in a club with limited resources, it makes sense to spend a major part of your budget on a very good manager.

Another widely accepted wisdom in boardrooms (even if not always followed) is that once a manager is recruited, you stay out of his domain.

The boardroom at Ibrox is not awash with wisdom it seems. First of all they put their faith in a manager with little or no experience in the game. That may well have worked out with a bit of good fortune, but does anyone really believe, after his disappearing act in the wake of the Cup Final defeat and his absence at the Barton signing conference, that Mark Warburton is master of his own domain?

If not, does the ‘come hither’ curled finger of fate attached to Jimmy Traynor’s hand at last week’s press conference convince you?

I would guess that there are at least half a dozen experienced managers with a track record of success who would relish the challenge of putting TRFC on the map at the opportunity cost of a Barton for example. Instead it seems – if the rumours are true – that Warburton’s autonomy was breached so that said Joey could be hired to boost ST sales.

No group of fans is entitled to expect success. Rangers fans, and Celtic fans, have historically come to expect that very thing. It is understandable to some extent, but it should never be confused with an actual entitlement to success – and that is what the board at Ibrox are selling to the fans in return for their cash – which as we have seen is not being converted to the promised on-field successes.

the ‘come hither’ curled finger of fate attached to Jimmy Traynor’s hand should convince us that Warburton is not his own master

To a large extent, I think some of the online comments in fan sites in the wake of the Celtic match have been sensible and mature. Reality amongst Rangers fans is at last beginning to bite, and that can only be a good thing for TRFC. Rangers fans are beginning to understand that too many liberties have been taken with their loyalty to and love of the jersey. The problem for the fans is that whilst they come to terms with what may be a realistic timetable and roadmap towards success and parity with the top clubs, the current board and their chums in the press are invested in having them believe the opposite.

Already the cheerleaders in the red tops are proclaiming their ‘gulf-denial’ credentials in the hope that enough fans will be convinced of it. The problem is that the fans know the gulf exists – and not only that does exist, but it is unrealistic to expect it not to.

The Level5 effect is wearing off. In the past five years, £21m quid in investment, £6m in loans, and five years worth of ST sales have all come and gone. Will Rangers fans really do those sums, observe that in each of the four milestone matches mentioned at the beginning of this article there is nothing to show for it, and agree that there is nothing to concern them?

Rangers fans will no doubt call us obsessed to produce an article like this – about them. But football is uniquely interdependent – we all need each other. It is a game where we benefit from the traditions, the colour and the fanaticism of rivals. The fact is that we understand the value that Rangers can bring to the to the Scottish game and we want it to be realised.

Sadly though, the current people in charge at the club are people who revel in making war on fellow clubs and business partners as well as the national broadcaster and BT Sport. They have also failed to deliver on promises of investment and success to their own fans, and escaped press scrutiny of that failure. Whilst they are there, we see only division in Scottish football with no coming together possible for generations.

I believe that the vast majority of fans who love Rangers, like the rest of us, have had enough of a war on too many fronts to count. It’s time to make peace – with everyone. Football in this country can’t be fixed until that happens.

About the author

Trisidium administrator

Trisidium is a Dunblane businessman with a keen interest in Scottish Football. He is a Celtic fan, although the demands of modern-day parenting have seen him less at games and more as a taxi service for his kids.

1,368 Comments so far

nawlitePosted on7:02 pm - Nov 3, 2016


JC, I agree. I just didn’t want to point out the obvious that one club (or rather, two!) had already taken advantage of there being no need to bother with rules.

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nawlitePosted on7:06 pm - Nov 3, 2016


JC, I agree. I just didn’t want to point out the obvious that one club (or rather, two!) had already been used to not worrying about the governing body’s rules.

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ulyanovaPosted on7:08 pm - Nov 3, 2016


 An anglo-genesis of the great poppy debate(s).
http://www.joe.co.uk/sport/poppy-row/95762

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killie1962Posted on7:57 pm - Nov 3, 2016


On the Poppy theme I sometimes think that I am way out of the loop. Growing up in Scotland in the 60’s and 70’s and working from 1979 till 1990 before my exile Stateside I used to put a wee donation in the can, wear my poppy(even as a kid Da would always help pin it on for me). I never questioned political motives or freedom of speech, I just wore it and sometimes went to the Cenotaph in Kilmarnock(across from the Dick Institute) each Remembrance Day with Da to honor my Mum’s Uncle James Storrie Rae, killed in action at Loos in 1917.On TV my mum never missed the BBC Remembrance show on the Saturday night, the highlight at the end being the Chelsea Pensioners marching in and then a load of Poppies were released from the ceiling to fall down as the poem was read out.On Sunday she never missed the ceremony broadcast on TV.Am I in the minority when I long for those days, no PC Brigade, no big debates and pissing contests just a simple remembering of the Great Fallen. These days everything gets so over complicated and people seem to love putting the boot into Britain (see Phil MC G’s continuing saga via twitter on British War Crimes-maybe a wee bit bitter eh??) I am Scottish first, have an Irish background too and still have British Citizenship and all I see is negativity and point scoring. It’s not just over there, here in the States they are continuing to rewrite History, knock down monuments to General Lee from the Civil War,( or the war of Northern Aggression depending on your viewpoint) sorry, history happens. Words and contexts from the 19th and early 20th century are being censored as people try to kid themselves on these things never happened. For goodness sake they are making a remake of the Dam busters and are trying to change Commander Guy Gibson’s dog’s name from Nigger to Trigger so not to upset people!! Sorry, don’t rewrite history, get over it, which brings me back to the Poppy, if you don’t wan’t to wear one don’t but don’t make a song and dance about it. Those old soldiers would turn in their graves over the stupidity about such a kerfuffle over nothing!! Having visited a lot of war graves in Europe and how well they are tended that is remembrance of the first order.It is a simple thing and one day to remember the Great Fallen, it could do without all the arguing and just be simply remembered on the 11th hour on the 11th day of the 11th month. I can remember when everything stopped at that point, even at school.Maybe I am in the wrong time zone, as a proud Historian I really do not have much time for the PC Brigade or loudmouths.
Yours in Sport
Guan The Kilie

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TrisidiumPosted on10:23 pm - Nov 3, 2016


Appreciate a wee click or two on some ads folks. I’ll leave this here as a request to see if we can raise some cash from the ad company.

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BarcabhoyPosted on10:42 pm - Nov 3, 2016


Small Change

Thanks for the link. It shows that on Pages 19 and 20 there is a detailed P & L with notes. The only problem is the document lodged doesn’t have a page 19 or 20. I suspect you must have  shareholders copy, as St Johnstone aren’t providing this publicly 

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AuldheidPosted on12:17 pm - Nov 4, 2016


Hope this link works. It addresses why FIFA take their stance on personal statements on jerseys.

https://twitter.com/i/videos/tweet/794091795852525568?embed_source=clientlib&player_id=3&rpc_init=1 

If it doesn’t try this guys Twitter Timeline

ᑕOᑎOᖇ ᗰᑕᑎᗩᗰᗩᖇᗩ ‏@ConorMcNamaraIE · Nov 3

Lots of people debating if Poppies are political?

But that’s NOT actually the reason wearing them is against FIFA rules.

I suppose the counter argument is that its not a personal statement by players and wearing a poppy in that game is a condition of employment20.
Wit a fankle we get into over symbols that mean everything and nothing depending on the observer.

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StevieBCPosted on2:51 pm - Nov 4, 2016


And so it begins: a random sample of Barton headlines;

“Joey Barton at Rangers: How the former Premier League midfielder became public enemy No 1”
[The Express]

 
“Joey Barton’s old Manchester City team-mate fears Rangers outcast will EXPLODE if he doesn’t get January exit”
[The Sun]

“Rangers midfielder Joey Barton thinks he is Roy Keane”
[The DR]

“Barton thinks he’s Roy Keane and is deluded about his own ability, claims Mills”
[The Daily Star]

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wottpiPosted on3:19 pm - Nov 4, 2016


STEVIEBCNOVEMBER 4, 2016 at 14:51

Don’t be to harsh. Everything is going to plan according to an Evening Times headline from May.

“Rangers boss Mark Warburton: Joey Barton can inspire younger players to the next level”

Training with the youngsters is just the ticket then !!!

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John ClarkPosted on3:29 pm - Nov 4, 2016


wottpiNovember 4, 2016 at 15:19
‘..“Rangers boss Mark Warburton: Joey Barton can inspire younger players to the next level”’
_______
If Warburton himself said that, he should tell Traynor to get to France out of his road, and do the PR work himself.

And if the ‘Times’ guy made it up, he should move into the PR consultancy business.

How much better that statement is-: non-confrontational, pouring oil on troubled waters, reducing the need for retaliation, conducive to peaceful conversations, building bridges, saving face, and, critically, maybe saving money!

Seriously, though, if Warburton did utter that statement it shows a degree of savvy that has long been wanting in the traynor PR approach- and he is to be commended for that [ whether he means a word of it is an entirely different matter, of course!]

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occamPosted on5:53 pm - Nov 4, 2016


Perhaps at a slight tangent … and without wishing to imply any criticism pro/anti Brexit, has anyone else noted a similarity between the fevered, mob rule rantings of Daily Mail/Express and similar proclamations by a certain gardener?

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upthehoopsPosted on6:35 pm - Nov 4, 2016


Caught 15 minutes of Radio Clyde earlier. When even Derek Johnstone concedes that Barton could choose to sit out his contract if he wants to tells me all PR avenues have been explored, and have come to a dead end. Derek of course ‘hopes’ Barton will want a move, but if he can’t get one that suits him then why should he. 

If the point of signing Barton was to shift season tickets, what real effect did it have? Struggling to October without a loan instead of September, but possibly stuck with a huge wage bill till the end of next season for someone who won’t even be playing is total madness. Of course, administration would be an easy way to get rid of such contracts, but there is absolutely no chance of that, is there!

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StevieBCPosted on6:59 pm - Nov 4, 2016


Mibbees the best that TRFC can reasonably hope for is that Barton agrees to a loan deal ?

He remains a TRFC player, but at least some of his wages can be offset by the loanee club ?

Could be the pragmatic option for both sides to save face ?

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smallchangePosted on6:59 pm - Nov 4, 2016


Barcabhoy
Please see the following post from EasyJambo (you may have missed it previously) which explains where the actual P&L information came from. The current version, linked by myself, as you rightly point out does not contain the P&L page(s).
Apologies for causing the confusion. 16
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
easyJamboNovember 2, 2016 at 14:01  17 Votes
Attachment  St-Johnstone-2015.pdf
 smallchange November 2, 2016 at 12:36  BarcabhoyNovember 2, 2016 at 11:41 https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/SC007629/filing-history ============================ Guys – The Companies House version does not contain the breakdown of the P&L Account, or at least it doesn’t now.  I think St Johnstone initially submitted a copy of the accounts with the extra pages to Companies House, which is where I obtained my copy.  I think that the current version replaced the one I downloaded, as there is a disclaimer in my version that the extra pages were not subjected to the auditors’ scrutiny.
I’ve attached a full copy of the version I downloaded on 15/10/2015.

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John ClarkPosted on7:36 pm - Nov 4, 2016


upthehoopsNovember 4, 2016 at 18:35
‘If the point of signing Barton was to shift season tickets, what real effect did it have…’
________
A wholly disastrous effect overall, I reckon, uth.
Rather than being evidence of a forward-looking effort to add an additional element of class to the football team,it seems to me that the signing of Barton was done solely to boost season book sales,while giving the appearance of trying to add a bit of extra class to the team, with the pre-determined plan of ensuring that his sacking could and would be engineered early doors.
The plan came unstuck because the idiots got it wrong, in not ensuring there was acceptable ‘evidence’,on video,say, or in the contemporaneous statements of ‘witnesses’,and such like.
Perhaps Barton himself was as cute as Bobo had found it necessary to be, when he was being pushed out the door at another club, and prudentlykept his own detailed log of events.
This “make life an embarrassment and a discomfort and hopefully provoking experience ” ploy is a desperate gamble. If Barton has the savvy to turn up in time, do what’s reasonably required of him ( and keeps a note of unreasonable orders, insults proferred, ‘accidental’ physical assaults during a practice game, etc etc) over the next couple of months, TRFC will have scored another spectacular own goal:
they will have embarrassed their ‘manager’
they will have shelled out a lot of dough for ( and here we need a money-wise poster’s help?) very little overall return
they already have trashed their ‘name’ in the wider football world by their crass , bad-tempered, spiteful attitude and will have further damaged their prospects of finding players/manager prepared to come to them
and they have let us all see that ,instead of there being any sign of  real capacity or intention in the minds and hearts of the Boards to try to effect a return to civilised behaviour, they have demonstrated an inability to break free from the clenched teeth, out-jutting jaw, tight-a.sed, tight-collared  ‘defiant(!)’ and aggressively angry postures so worshipped by the SMSM.
But that’s only my opinion, I’m sure. 
And who knows, maybe the statement attributed to Warburton and commented on earlier today, is a sign that the PR penny may have dropped, and signals a drastic re-think?? D’ye reckon?

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gunnerbPosted on7:54 pm - Nov 4, 2016


@sfm.scot

Is the email server down? for the past couple of days(since the script attack) I have been unable to use this service. PM affected too.

cheers

gunnerb,
Sorry for late reply. No mods on duty tonight and I am just back from thrashing around with a guitar in Dunfermline 🙁

Mail server is working ok – so is PM. Contact me with the specific problem. I’ll see if we can work it out.

BP

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Cluster OnePosted on8:08 pm - Nov 4, 2016


UPTHEHOOPSNOVEMBER 4, 2016 at 18:35
If the point of signing Barton was to shift season tickets, what real effect did it have?
——————
And If the point of signing Barton was to put his name on the back of replica shirts for fans to buy the cash effect would have been a windfall for the club,but that never happened,just as well imagine all the fans with his name on the back. Would the club have reimbursed the fans, or would they hope the fans would just have bought another new replica top if they could have bought one in the first place
       

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StevieBCPosted on8:59 pm - Nov 4, 2016


[Following on from PMacG’s tweet.]

The problems at Ibrox stadium wrt the roof(s) have been discussed…but I didn’t realise that there is also a desperate need for some very expensive bricks at Ibrox and Murray Park !

14

 http://www.rangerslotto.co.uk/?page_id=6

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Corrupt officialPosted on10:25 pm - Nov 4, 2016


Res 12 update from Auldheid. 

http://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/brendan-and-ronny-even-what-looks-like-a-lucky-gamble-isnt/comment-page-4/#comment-2955628

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John ClarkPosted on10:37 pm - Nov 4, 2016


StevieBCNovember 4, 2016 at 20:59
‘..but I didn’t realise that there is also a desperate need for some very expensive bricks at Ibrox and Murray Park !..’
_________
I think I may not be quite up-to-the-minute with he current legal situation in respect of IP rights and logos and other such  things, but might not the profits from good sales of the the “5-star  brick” go to MA? Or are the Courts still to decide that kind of thing?
(Geez, there’s somebody just s..t a brick!)21

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John ClarkPosted on11:11 pm - Nov 4, 2016


I posted a wee while ago the fact that I had heard that ‘Supporters Direct Scotland’ were now accepting funding from a very dodgy organisation-the SFA!

Now I read this, in the ‘Scottish Football Supporters Association‘ current newsletter:
“The end for Supporters Direct in Scotland?It is a shock to us that the organisation is still in existence as its grants from the Scottish Government ended some time ago. Our position is that there is only room for one truly national and inclusive fans organisation in Scotland and that it should be run from within these borders. Despite many attempts to engage with their hierarchy in London they have ignored us. In light of this revelation in the press we have written to them again. We will keep you posted if their Board in London ever comes back to us.”

I know from other experiences that the minute that you accept money, in any way, whether as a one-off grant, or a regular subvention, from any body that your organisation may have to challenge , you are already compromised.

Football supporters like you and me , even if there hadn’t been the infamous cheating of SDM and the subsequent double-dealing and, frankly, lying behaviour of  the SFA, need a representative body that is truly independent and can speak fearlessly without worrying that its finances are going to be cut off by a vengeful Football Governance body.

Now that we know what the SFA are capable of, that need is infinitely greater.

Personally, I’m not a great joiner of things ,but I have joined ( online) the Scottish Football Supporters Association: and not because , having a (real) surname which ‘Black’s Dictionary of Scottish Names’ places as an Aberdeenshire name, membership is free!Baaa!

I refer you to this link, and swear on a stack of bibles or bundled up  ‘affirmations’ ( I haven’t sat in Courtrooms in vain) that I am not being paid for so doing.

http://scottishfsa.org/about-sfsa/

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BigGavPosted on12:21 am - Nov 5, 2016


John Clark
November 4, 2016 at 19:36

And who knows, maybe the statement attributed to Warburton and commented on earlier today, is a sign that the PR penny may have dropped, and signals a drastic re-think??

———

John, I think you missed the point that the Warbmeister’s statement (“Joey Barton can inspire younger players to the next level”) was made back in May this year, shortly after his signing.

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John ClarkPosted on1:17 am - Nov 5, 2016


BigGavNovember 5, 2016 at 00:21
‘..John, I think you missed the point that the Warbmeister’s statement (“Joey Barton can inspire younger players to the next level”) was made back in May this year, shortly after his signing.’
_____
And there was me ready to give the barra boy [=’city trader’] some credit for being enlightened!
Sadly, it appears that he deserves no such credit.
And I deserve a skelp for missing the point! And, with some embarrassment, make my apologies for that.

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HomunculusPosted on9:45 am - Nov 5, 2016


Aberdeen FC have announced a record turnover for the financial year, with a further year declaring a profit. Slightly down on last year at around £450,000. 

http://www.afc.co.uk/mobile/news/8717.php

Key Highlights:

Record turnover of £13.414m

Increased wages to £6.817m as the Club continues to invest in its playing staff.

Wages to Turnover remains at 51 per cent.

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Charlie_KellyPosted on10:22 am - Nov 5, 2016


Re the Barton signing:

I think the reasons for his signing are really very simple. At the time of his signing (i.e. without knowing what was about to transpire) he was seen as a vast improvement on any current rangers midfielder. POTY last year in the english championship and former clubs that include Marseille, Newcastle & Man City and even a cap for England. That is a far better CV than any midfielder at ibrox since 2012. Yes there was well publicised “baggage” with Barton but in all honesty it did appear to be behind him. He seemed to have re-invented himself as one of the ‘twitterati’. A deep thinking philosopher etc… A twat basically but a harmless twat who was still a decent footballer. 
So I think that’s the reason for signing him. Nothing to do with season tickets sales. I’d imagine all the ‘back where we belong’ ‘going for 55’ nonsense would have done way more to shift tickets than signing any player would have done. Given what has transpired over the last 4-5 years then rangers were always going to have a huge uptake in season tickets for their first season in the top flight. If they couldn’t shift 40K season tickets this summer then they never will. So from that perspective there really wasn’t much need for big name signings.
His signing has backfired spectacularly but at the time of his signing I think there was genuine & valid footballing reasons to sign him and I think this will be borne out in January when various clubs try to sign him.

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HomunculusPosted on10:40 am - Nov 5, 2016


CHARLIE_KELLY
NOVEMBER 5, 2016 at 10:22  

Re the Barton signing:

POTY last year in the english championship…

=====================================

Are you sure, I thought he was his club’s player of the year, not the Championships. 

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Charlie_KellyPosted on10:44 am - Nov 5, 2016


Yeah “my bad” as the Americans would say. He was Burnley’s POTY. 

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upthehoopsPosted on11:01 am - Nov 5, 2016


JOHN CLARKNOVEMBER 4, 2016 at 19:36
========================

I think it’s reasonable to say the score current stands at Barton & his legal team 1 Rangers & their legal team 0. If Barton can keep his defence solid by not opening his mouth there seems little chance of an equaliser. It could be one of the most expensive defeats in their four and a bit year history. 

What I love is the clear annoyance of many media commentators who smugly forecast Rangers were simply getting the legalities sorted before dismissing Barton, including the so called ‘good’ journalist Graham Spiers. It is now dawning on them he could rip £25K a week off them for the next 18 months. 

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Cluster OnePosted on11:50 am - Nov 5, 2016


CHARLIE_KELLYNOVEMBER 5, 2016 at 10:22
His signing has backfired spectacularly but at the time of his signing I think there was genuine & valid footballing reasons to sign him and I think this will be borne out in January when various clubs try to sign him.
———————
With his latest saga and not having kicked a ball in anger10 for about 4 months,do you really believe there will be a list of clubs ready to sign him in Jan when he is not match fit.Given that clubs sign players to boost their chances in Jan to try for  a better league position,can a club afford to carry a player in Jan who will not be match fit for at least a half a dozen games?

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torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958)Posted on2:02 pm - Nov 5, 2016


wottpiNovember 4, 2016 at 15:19       23 Votes 
STEVIEBCNOVEMBER 4, 2016 at 14:51
Don’t be to harsh. Everything is going to plan according to an Evening Times headline from May.
“Rangers boss Mark Warburton: Joey Barton can inspire younger players to the next level”
Training with the youngsters is just the ticket then !!!
=========================
Hope he inspires them quickly.They’re gonna need all the help they can get.
SFA Youth Cup
Half-Time: Celtic 10 Edinburgh City 0

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torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958)Posted on2:30 pm - Nov 5, 2016


Sorry for maybe off topic but congratulations to Andy Murray.Now ranked No.1 in the world.

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Billy BoycePosted on3:02 pm - Nov 5, 2016


torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958) November 5, 2016 at 14:02Hope he inspires them quickly.they’re gonna need all the help they can get.
——————————-

I wonder if the TRFC hierarchy gave any thought to putting Barton in with a squad of impressionable youngsters.  After all, Barton is a criminal thug who was convicted for a cowardly attack on a teenager that included stubbing out a cigar in the boy’s eye.  Joey has more than enough experience of mixing with the wrong sort, including the ones detained at Her Majesty’s pleasure.  If I was the parent of a youth squad player I would be most concerned about this fox in the proverbial hen house.

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gunnerbPosted on4:00 pm - Nov 5, 2016


OFF TOPIC

apologies to the forum but I am apparently unable to communicate less publicly.

Still having issues .Please re-set pw and email settings to imap/smtp server address and ports.

cheers
————————————————-
GUNNERBNOVEMBER 4, 2016 at 19:54       5 Votes 
@sfm.scot
Is the email server down? for the past couple of days(since the script attack) I have been unable to use this service. PM affected too.
cheers
gunnerb,Sorry for late reply. No mods on duty tonight and I am just back from thrashing around with a guitar in Dunfermline
Mail server is working ok – so is PM. Contact me with the specific problem. I’ll see if we can work it out.
BP

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HomunculusPosted on4:30 pm - Nov 5, 2016


The arrogance in this “article” from both the Rangers manager and the writer is just astonishing.

I have included extracts below.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/warburton-9195609?

Rangers boss Mark Warburton hits out at winter break that’s set to hit club in the pocket

He has studied the worst case but entirely realistic scenario of Rangers finishing second behind Celtic, who are already nine points ahead of their old rivals with a game still in hand. {seriously, second to Celtic is the worst case scenario}

Warburton said: “The Scottish Cup final is on May 28, the first Europa League game is on June 28 and in between there is a small fixture between Scotland and England on June 11.

“What do you do? I’m looking at our players – Lee Wallace, Barrie McKay and the likes and wondering what kind of break they might be given. {stick on’s to play for Scotland are they}

“Even if we don’t make the cup final we still finish a week earlier, on May 21, and it’s only five weeks before the Europa League qualifiers. {even if you don’t make the final, what’s the chances of that then}

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Cluster OnePosted on6:06 pm - Nov 5, 2016


HOMUNCULUSNOVEMBER 5, 2016 at 16:30       7 Votes 
The arrogance in this “article” from both the Rangers manager and the writer is just astonishing.
“Even if we don’t make the cup final we still finish a week earlier, on May 21, and it’s only five weeks before the Europa League qualifiers.
————
All that worrying about Europa league and he may not even be there next season. A  realistic scenario of Rangers not finishing second behind Celtic

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TrisidiumPosted on6:14 pm - Nov 5, 2016


gunnerb

Can you call the office number (0141 459 1867). If there is no answer, leave a message and we will get back to you.

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easyJamboPosted on8:52 pm - Nov 5, 2016


torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958)November 5, 2016 at 14:02
Hope he inspires them quickly.They’re gonna need all the help they can get. SFA Youth Cup Half-Time: Celtic 10 Edinburgh City 0
=======================
Finished 21-0.

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John ClarkPosted on11:23 pm - Nov 5, 2016


easyJamboNovember 5, 2016 at 20:52
‘….Finished 21-0.’
__________
Once upon a long, long time ago, I was deputed by the PE teacher to take the school team one Saturday morning [in the good old days before stupid self-seeking politicians presumed too far upon the goodwill of teachers who voluntarily, every Saturday, gave their unpaid time and devotion to running the school team(s)].
By half-time, ‘my’ team was already being hammered something like 8-0.
The teacher in charge of the other school team ( who refereed the game) suggested that it might be a good idea if the second half was cut short, to limit the damage to wee boys who were doing their best.
That other teacher was Archie MacPherson, who, I think, was just about to join the BBC. I didn’t know him.
I agreed to the suggestion, and he blew the whistle when the score reached double figures ( after about twenty minutes more).
Was I right to agree?
I thought so at the time, and I still think so. Primary school football was/is  about sport for sport’s sake.
SFA Youth Football? I don’t know, but I do feel uncomfortable about a 21-0 scoreline. Sporting Integrity: does it demand the humiliation of the opponent? Discuss.

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AuldheidPosted on12:58 am - Nov 6, 2016


Whilst directed at supporters of Res12 on CQN the following will be of interest to supporters of all clubs in terms of attempting to use an AGM process to make SFA and clubs realise they are accountable.
Resolution 12: Where it currently stands.
This is a repost from yesterday on CQN with revised links to 8th June letter and The Activity Account.
There seems to be some idea that nothing more can be done about Res12 and that Celtic will simply say nothing at the forthcoming AGM.
It is timely therefore to remind folk who have funded the exercise since the AGM 2013 what that adjournment at the 2013 AGM meant and why if Celtic were to say nothing at the forthcoming AGM, that would be a betrayal of what we (and so the shareholders we represented) were led to understand when the adjournment (not abandonment) was accepted, along with what an adjournment meant in AGM terms.
There was some debate on CQN at the time in 2013 that might still be retrievable, but Video Celts copied the essential aspects of it which can be read at the following link for what was said in 2013 in lead up to the AGM . It contains information from BRTH from CQN who was involved in the adjournment discussions and confirms what was said to two other requistitioners on Skype by way of explanation at the time, plus a reliable witness.
http://videocelts.com/2013/11/blogs/latest-news/celtic-take-shareholders-licence-concerns-straight-to-sfa/
Our understanding from the above, then and now is that Res12 (AGM 2013) is still on the table and that it should either be passed or voted against at the forthcoming AGM given that the exercise the adjournment allowed to take place has ended because the shareholder’s representatives have taken it as far as we can. However, that exercise has been revealing.
Celtic’s position at the 2013 AGM was that Res12 was unnecessary. The information provided by UEFA on 8th June 2016 about the new club (which is of interest to many so fill yer boots)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6uWzxhblAt9ckdxNTU4bFIyNFU/view
contained much more relevant (in Res 12 terms) information about dates that suggests that the information given to Celtic in 2011 and later by the SFA, which led Celtic to conclude Res12 was “unnecessary” was less than candid and certainly subsequent utterances in public by Regan have been misleading.
This excludes the famous leaked 7th December 2011 e mail from Regan to RFC which explains the basis on which the SFA wanted to justify in public the granting of the UEFA licence in spring 2011. This justification (that the liability was potential at 31st March) if it is the basis on which the grant was allowed, is highly questionable and possibly involves fraud.
Consequently, Res12 is anything but over until Celtic say so, both in AGM process terms and until it can be shown without doubt the licence was granted as UEFA intended and the statements made that allowed the granting in March 2011 were true as much as the statements made afterwards by the SFA to explain the granting.
Over 100 signatories to Res12 have been given an Account of Activity on their behalf including correspondence with the SFA and UEFA as well as the Conclusions arising from the correspondence and an interesting similar case involving a Greek club whose use of private agreements as well as having an overdue payable saw a licence refused.
That Activity Account itself with links to all the correspondence can now be read at
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6uWzxhblAt9bnFxLXZYRi1pems/view
There is a lot to absorb so The Conclusions can wait a few more days before publishing to allow Celtic, who have a copy of both Timeline and Conclusions, to consider their position in terms of addressing Res12 (2013) at the forthcoming AGM in order to meet their responsibility to shareholders.
No meaning should be read into the absence of any response from the SLO, whom signatories who received the paperwork last week were advised to e mail, John Paul Taylor is only the public mail box in this case so do not expect a response from him.
To repeat: Any response must come within the AGM framework. That was the point of using the AGM route in the first place, to make the point to the SFA that one way or another they will be held accountable.
Lets hope Celtic will reinforce this point at the AGM and afterwards, why wouldnt they?
PS Amongst the correspondence the SFA say something that lifts the skirt on the commissioning of LNS and asks why the SFA were not the commissioning body whilst at same time it was their employee who gave key influencing  testimony to LNS.

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Corrupt officialPosted on3:02 am - Nov 6, 2016


JOHN CLARKNOVEMBER 5, 2016 at 23:23
    John it could have been more, but at 20-0, somebody shouted, “Next goals the winner !”  21   
                   

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Cluster OnePosted on9:43 am - Nov 6, 2016


SFA Youth Cup Half-Time: Celtic v Edinburgh City =======================
half time 10-0Finished 21-0.
————–
Maybe they read on here it was to be an old fashioned 10-21er and Edinburgh City had a backsy22

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Cluster OnePosted on9:51 am - Nov 6, 2016


AULDHEIDNOVEMBER 6, 2016 at 00:58
——————-
excellent work yet again

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John ClarkPosted on11:43 am - Nov 6, 2016


AuldheidNovember 6, 2016 at 00:58
“….That was the point of using the AGM route in the first place, to make the point to the SFA that one way or another they will be held accountable.”
_______
And,indeed, making the point that ,essentially, this is not a mere matter of ‘football’ ( like,say complaints about an incorrect referee’s decision which might cost a club some points or a place in a cup competition), but a serious ‘plc business’ matter, involving some millions of pounds of loss to shareholders, allegedly as a result of deliberate concealment of truth by the SFA as a Limited Company.
That is a serious, serious matter, which, in my view, needs to be lifted out of the ‘football’ sphere and into the criminal law sphere, as has happened in respect of other Sports governing bodies.
There is a case to answer, and it does NOT lie in the gift of the Celtic plc Board to refuse to seek answers, even if it means seeking the involvement of the Police.

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paddy malarkeyPosted on3:43 pm - Nov 6, 2016


I dare say the redtops will be full of outrage  about the Ross Co fans singing through the minute’s silence . It was the Ross Co fans , wasn’t it ?

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TrisidiumPosted on1:43 am - Nov 7, 2016


Weekly Monitor Ep 002 out this afternoon. Jim Spence & David Low feature.

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Carfins FinestPosted on12:50 pm - Nov 7, 2016


Hello…………………embdy there??????????????????  Heloooooo…..

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toadintheholePosted on1:03 pm - Nov 7, 2016


JOHN CLARKNOVEMBER 5, 2016 at 23:23  I thought so at the time, and I still think so. Primary school football was/is  about sport for sport’s sake.SFA Youth Football? I don’t know, but I do feel uncomfortable about a 21-0 scoreline. Sporting Integrity: does it demand the humiliation of the opponent? Discuss.

I read an interview a few years back where Ian Cathro was singing the praises of a youth team coach in a match he’d watched a short time before. A similar scenario, one team was streets ahead of their opponents, and the scoreline reflected that. But rather than rack up a cricket score, with neither team learning anything or developing in any way, the coach got his team to go two touch and then, when that still didn’t bridge the gap enough, to one touch. It struck me as a brilliantly simple way to ensure that both teams actually get something out of the game. No doubt half the parents – the ones lacking in foresight at least – will have been annoyed that wee Johnny missed his chance to bag a triple hat-trick.

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nawlitePosted on1:22 pm - Nov 7, 2016


TITH, that’s a good approach!
I disagreed with JC’s thought that a team hammering another might ease off. Speaking personally, whenever I was on a side being hammered – be it in a competition match or not – I absolutely hated it when the much-better team started fannying about or tried to take the p*sh with fancy shit. I always far preferred to have them continue to hammer us, so that I could try harder and work better to stop the hammering.
Similarly, if my team was the one doing the hammering, I’d just keep doing it as I felt it would be disrespectful not to.
We always talk about our professional teams learning from playing better teams, so I don’t see a difference between Celtic getting hammered 7-0 by Barca and a youth team getting hammered by a similarly better team.
It’s just an incentive to try harder and do better.

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bobcobbPosted on2:26 pm - Nov 7, 2016


The dishing out of a right good hammering is still an issue in kids football. I help coach a school team and we have both been on the end of a few doings and have also administered a few over the years (even though we tried to curtail it). The league we play in asks coaches to avoid double figure score lines where possible but it’s not always possible. The difficulty – as always – is trying to find opposition who are of a similar level but that is not always an easy thing to do. (I remember as a kid being part of our school B-team who took a 23-1 hammering from St Francis in the Gorbals. Not much fun.)
Generally, we make substitutions and/or allow the team getting a doing to chuck on a few extra players when it’s clear there is a mismatch. A few times we have cut the game short. The real problem is that when a game is so one-sided, no one is learning anything and – crucially in my eyes – there exists a very real danger that some kids will get so upset that we lose them to the game forever. Some might think this a good thing, but I have seen some decent players in a bad team abandon the game because of one humiliation too many. Defeat can be good for the soul, but we must temper this with the fact that kids football – indeed any football – is supposed to be fun. 
I’m with JC (and Archie!) on this one; respect is a big part of the game and I fear that too many coaches of kids football teams do not show any consideration to their opponents. Mismatches should be avoided at kids level if at all possible.
(NB: I don’t think the Celtic Edinburgh 21-0 is comparable. It might be a youth game but we are talking about two members of the SPFL here, not strictly speaking a “kids” game.)

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John ClarkPosted on2:34 pm - Nov 7, 2016


From the ‘Scotsman’ today:
“In 2001, in a Scottish Cup encounter at the home of the Staggies, £12 million Tore Andre Flo scored a double in the victory….”
My memory fails me, but was it that season that the cold-blooded, secret, systematic cheating began, which resulted in the death of RFC , the misuse of our Bank money to try to stave off disaster,  the destruction of trust in the SFA and its use of the Judicial Protocol, and led to the cry of “Corruption” from the mouth of Turnbull Hutton?

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joes11Posted on3:06 pm - Nov 7, 2016


bobcobbNovember 7, 2016 at 14:26
The dishing out of a right good hammering is still an issue in kids football.
………………………………………………………………….
There is one simple way to deal with this that I have used. At the point in the game that the result is clear, both sides agree to end the game there; then mix the teams and play the remainder of the time as a ‘friendly’. The winning team get their victory, all the players get to play out the allotted time, poorer players get the chance to play with better and vice versa ( just like we always did on the street and the back court).

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StevieBCPosted on3:17 pm - Nov 7, 2016


Shockingly accurate headline from the DR today;

“Will Rangers, Aberdeen, Hearts or St Johnstone finish second – our writers make their predictions”

Looks like Level42 are – rather belatedly – trying to manage the bears’ expectations downwards.
Only 2 of the 8 ‘writers’ think TRFC will come second !

Even Jackson thinks/has pasted that Aberdeen will be second. 
[And no mention of ’55’ anywhere in the article.]

If the bears agree with the ‘writers’ – then their conditioned reaction will be;

“Well, let’s splash the cash in January and bring in some quality players !”

Can see a problem there…and all the spin in the world won’t help those in the Blue Room – or Warburton.

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TrisidiumPosted on3:25 pm - Nov 7, 2016


BP having the day off today – but here is the latest Weekly Monitor (TWM) – episode 2 with Jim Spence and David Low.

http://podcast.sfm.scot/e/twm-002/

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Charlie_KellyPosted on3:26 pm - Nov 7, 2016


The issue of kids football is a touchy subject. No-one on either side will have learned a great deal from a 21-0 scoreline.
At the same time losing & losing heavily is part of sport and it’s also part of life sadly and I’m not sure that we do kids any long term favours by shielding them from this harsh reality when it comes to competitive sport. I’m sure the kids on the receiving end of the 21-0 result wouldn’t have much enjoyed that but imagine how embarrassing it would be to have lost say 9-0 only to then find out the team who beat you 9-0 weren’t even trying!
Not really sure what the answer is to this one other than trying to avoid these type of mis-matches in the first place by having leagues structured so that boys of equal (or at least close to equal) ability can compete with each other.
I agree that you do learn from playing better opponents but you learn nothing from playing in a total mismatch.

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StevieBCPosted on3:49 pm - Nov 7, 2016


CHARLIE_KELLY
NOVEMBER 7, 2016 at 15:26  
The issue of kids football is a touchy subject. No-one on either side will have learned a great deal from a 21-0 scoreline.At the same time losing & losing heavily is part of sport and it’s also part of life sadly and I’m not sure that we do kids any long term favours by shielding them from this harsh reality when it comes to competitive sport…
================================

I remember playing on the old ’50 Pitches’ in Cardonald, when my team lost 0-25.
Must have been about 11, but a couple of years younger than the other players.
It became a bit boring after a while, and afterwards it was just embarrassing telling friends/family the scoreline.
Didn’t dwell on it though, and I also played for teams which humped other teams.  That’s just sport.

If you’ve received a hammering on the park yourself, you are probably less likely to gloat – or showboat – when your own team has a high-scoring win.  

[The terrible pitches at Cardonald didn’t help our ‘passing game’ 15 , and IIRC about 20 goals might have been marginally offside…and the ref was a homer of course ! ]

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AllyjamboPosted on4:51 pm - Nov 7, 2016


TrisidiumNovember 7, 2016 at 15:25 
BP having the day off today – but here is the latest Weekly Monitor (TWM) – episode 2 with Jim Spence and David Low.
http://podcast.sfm.scot/e/twm-002/
_________________________________
Tris,

Just listened to the podcast, excellently anchored by BP, and have to say I found David Low to be refreshingly candid. I’ll not say too much about it until others have had a chance to listen to it, but I will say, that, if we didn’t already know so much (thanks to so many informed posters here and elsewhere – Bampots one and all) it would have been pretty eye-opening, to say the least.

I don’t think I learned anything new from what he said, other than it…go on, hear it for yourselves 04

Nice to hear Jim Spence, too, and his take on matters Tangerine, no, not his bottle tan 21

Very enjoyable podcast, BP.

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easyJamboPosted on5:53 pm - Nov 7, 2016


JC – One for your diary, pre Oz, (if you have £25 to spare).  (I think it is the same date as Craig Whyte’s next appearance at the CoS re his contempt charge)

http://linkis.com/scottishlegal.com/FxtOv

Lord Drummond Young to deliver address on Rangers case

4:30pm (registration), 5pm start Thursday 17th November 2016 Laigh Hall, Parliament House, Edinburgh

The Edinburgh Tax Network, in conjunction with Terra Firma Chambers, will present an Address by the Rt. Hon. Lord Drummond Young entitled “The Rangers Case: HMRC v Murray Group Holdings – Substance and form – the triumph of reality over language?” on Thursday 17th November 2016.

Lord Drummond Young handed down the leading judgments in Aberdeen Asset Management and in Murray Group Holdings (“Rangers”). The Rangers case is on its way to the UK Supreme Court. It is rare – and so refreshing – to find a Judge willing to discuss so important a case under appeal. Together, they represent the greater part of Scotland’s contribution to the UK – and international – response to avoidance. They build on the foundations laid in Ramsay doctrine as elaborated in Arrowtown and Barclays Mercantile and consolidated in UBS v R&CC.

The event will take place in the Laigh Hall, Parliament House, Edinburgh. Registration will commence at 4.30pm with the talk starting at 5pm. Drinks and canapés will be served from 6pm. The address has been accredited by the Faculty of Advocates as contributing 1 hour CPD for its own members and is eligible for a similar award from the Law Society for the solicitor branch of the profession.

There is a charge of £25 per person for attendance at this event. It is, however, free to members of the Edinburgh Tax Network constituent bodies. For full details, please visit http://www.terrafirmachambers.com/seminars.html.

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Cluster OnePosted on6:37 pm - Nov 7, 2016


EASYJAMBONOVEMBER 7, 2016 at 17:53
Lord Drummond Young to deliver address on Rangers case
4:30pm (registration), 5pm start Thursday 17th November 2016 Laigh Hall, Parliament House, Edinburgh
———————
The same day as the Football Blogging Awards 2016.The  most sought for awards in online journalism will be dished out on November 17th at Old Trafford.
what will the online journos and offline journos do?
       

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John ClarkPosted on6:42 pm - Nov 7, 2016


easyJamboNovember 7, 2016 at 17:53
‘…There is a charge of £25 per person for attendance at this event. It is, however, free to members of the Edinburgh Tax Network constituent bodies…’
______
Actually,eJ, I was interested enough to check the application form. I think, though,that it may not be open (even at£ 25 a pop) to members of the non-tax, non-legal world. I’ll try out of interest to check it out tomorrow.

Even if I could go, I think I’d prefer to see the CW non-compliance/contempt thingy to the end. What that end might be is anybody’s guess, of course, but I wouldn’t want to risk being ‘in contempt’ by even idly speculating.

( You incidentally saved me the task of hunting through my note-book to establish which business was on the 17th November and which in December in Glasgow).

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upthehoopsPosted on7:09 pm - Nov 7, 2016


ALLYJAMBONOVEMBER 7, 2016 at 16:51
==========================

I have just listened to the Podcast. Excellent stuff. I invite all others to do the same. 

What really struck me is that it should not be beyond say, a BBC person asking the very same questions as Big Pink did to an expert like David Low. In my view there was not one single question Big Pink asked which could be deemed unreasonable. As you say David Low was very candid with his answers. Illuminating stuff, and most certainly worth a listen. 

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AllyjamboPosted on7:47 pm - Nov 7, 2016


upthehoopsNovember 7, 2016 at 19:09 
ALLYJAMBONOVEMBER 7, 2016 at 16:51 ==========================
I have just listened to the Podcast. Excellent stuff. I invite all others to do the same. 
What really struck me is that it should not be beyond say, a BBC person asking the very same questions as Big Pink did to an expert like David Low. In my view there was not one single question Big Pink asked which could be deemed unreasonable. As you say David Low was very candid with his answers. Illuminating stuff, and most certainly worth a listen. 
_____________________

Glad you agree with my thoughts on the podcast, more like this and BP has hit on a winner. David Low can certainly be classed as well versed in the field of football finances and I think it very brave of BP to have him talk on such a controversial subject as he could easily have just flannelled his way through it avoiding controversy. He certainly didn’t do that. I’ll continue to avoid starting a discussion on the contents until more people have had a chance to hear it to avoid spoiling their enjoyment. I have one comment in particular to make about it – though I am sure it will strike many people who hear it before I post.

Jim Spence gives an excellent account of things at Dundee United, and, to me, sounds different in a cosy wee football chat than he does on radio – without his BBC voice 22

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upthehoopsPosted on8:13 pm - Nov 7, 2016


ALLYJAMBONOVEMBER 7, 2016 at 19:47 
Glad you agree with my thoughts on the podcast, more like this and BP has hit on a winner. David Low can certainly be classed as well versed in the field of football finances and I think it very brave of BP to have him talk on such a controversial subject as he could easily have just flannelled his way through it avoiding controversy. He certainly didn’t do that. I’ll continue to avoid starting a discussion on the contents until more people have had a chance to hear it to avoid spoiling their enjoyment. I have one comment in particular to make about it – though I am sure it will strike many people who hear it before I post.

============================

Spot on AJ, and particularly the part I’ve put in bold. This is one I think people should just take the time to listen to and digest. David Low is certainly a proven subject matter expert worth listening to. I think a wee shout out is also due to Big Pink. It is very easy to dismiss bloggers for asking loaded questions, gloating, or just general malice depending on the team they support. Big Pink has never hidden his background, but I challenge anyone to find any fault whatsoever in how he handled this interview. 

Edit – I enjoyed Jim Spence too. The BBC’s loss is our gain!

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AllyjamboPosted on8:35 pm - Nov 7, 2016


upthehoopsNovember 7, 2016 at 20:13
I was very impressed with the flow of both conversations, BP was almost Parkinson-like in the way he kept the conversation flowing but allowed the guests to hold centre stage and to answer the questions without interrupting, or trying to lead them down the path he wanted!

Gonna be a hard one to follow, Big Pink!

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John ClarkPosted on8:55 pm - Nov 7, 2016


And I, too, have just enjoyed both halves of the game, with BP demonstrating a proficient and fluid and pleasantly relaxed  interviewing technique. 
But there was one point where I might myself have asked Jim Spence a particular  question.( I wonder if others think the same?-but no ‘spoilers’, please until everyone who wants to has listened!).
(I imagine that the question might well have occurred to BP, but was maybe filed away for future use in another programme where it could be fully discussed, rather than stray from the main thrust of Spence’s overview of the Championship)
David Low was interesting as ever.
Well done, BP.

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The Cat NR1Posted on11:06 pm - Nov 7, 2016


StevieBCNovember 7, 2016 at 15:17 
Shockingly accurate headline from the DR today;
“Will Rangers, Aberdeen, Hearts or St Johnstone finish second – our writers make their predictions”
==========================================================
Interesting order of clubs in that question.
If that was today’s output, it doesn’t reflect the current league table. Or alphabetical order. Or last season’s standings.
It does resemble the order of clubs behind Celtic before the weekend’s games so are we seeing the release of a preprogrammed Level 5 damage limitation exercise in the event of the international break arriving with the clubs not being in the desired order?
Given that the gap betwen top and second is the same as the gap between second and twelfth, perhaps they should have added a few more names into the options.

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AllyjamboPosted on7:02 am - Nov 8, 2016


The Cat NR1November 7, 2016 at 23:06 
StevieBCNovember 7, 2016 at 15:17  Shockingly accurate headline from the DR today;“Will Rangers, Aberdeen, Hearts or St Johnstone finish second – our writers make their predictions”==========================================================Interesting order of clubs in that question. If that was today’s output, it doesn’t reflect the current league table. Or alphabetical order. Or last season’s standings.
_______________________

TC (Gee TC), it represents the partisan nature of Scottish football reporting, nothing else. No matter what the words are that the ‘reporter’ of the piece used (and I’m not going to read his daydreams), no matter what order he puts those words into, his only interest is TRFC, and he wrote it purely for the benefit of the bears and their club. The very same article, written with TRFC in, say, tenth place, would have had the headline in exactly the same order, though the article, itself, would have held a greater feel of desperation!

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FinlochPosted on9:28 am - Nov 8, 2016


I just heard a BBC Shortbread football story with Charlie Adam telling us all that in his opinion WGS isn’t picking the best players he has at his disposal and citing that he thinks it is clear that his own particular face obviously doesn’t fit.
Sometimes I wonder who is pulling the strings and now actively briefing against Mr Strachan.
I don’t believe that it is just happening because the BBC hacks have suddenly become intrepid.

While talking about Friday’s game I’d also like to thank  the English FA for showing up The SFA by having the game on council telly.

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zam1Posted on10:14 am - Nov 8, 2016


Dear Mr. xxxxx

This is the reply I received after sending the RES12 information to MSPs.

Thank you for contacting the office of Graham Simpson MSP. So we know who is best placed to deal with your query, please can you provide me with your post code.Many thanks,

Robyn Office of Graham Simpson MSP

Why do they need my postcode ??

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John ClarkPosted on10:24 am - Nov 8, 2016


FinlochNovember 8, 2016 at 09:28
‘.. Charlie Adam telling us all that in his opinion WGS isn’t picking the best players he has at his disposal and citing that he thinks it is clear that his own particular face obviously doesn’t fit..’
_______
Yes, I was taken aback by that statement.
I don’t think I’ve ever heard any player say anything more than that his manager ‘doesn’t rate’ him for tactical football reasons, and I think Adam has crossed the line into casting unwarranted slurs on WGS as being influenced by things other than his judgment of a player’s likely footballing contribution to the team effort.
Is Adam still within the ‘jurisdiction’, so that he can be asked to explain what exactly he means by suggesting that WGS uses criteria other than the particular footballing aptitudes and skills and temperament of players used by any manager selecting a squad for a particular match?

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AllyjamboPosted on10:25 am - Nov 8, 2016


zam1November 8, 2016 at 10:14

Probably nothing more sinister than to pinpoint your constituency. Well, hopefully nothing more sinister than that!

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justbecauseyoureparanoidPosted on10:41 am - Nov 8, 2016


ZAM1NOVEMBER 8, 2016 at 10:14 2 Votes
Dear Mr. xxxxx
This is the reply I received after sending the RES12 information to MSPs.
Thank you for contacting the office of Graham Simpson MSP. So we know who is best placed to deal with your query, please can you provide me with your post code.Many thanks,
Robyn Office of Graham Simpson MSP
Why do they need my postcode ??

I agree with Allyjambo.
If Holyrood works to the same protocols as Westminster, members will only engage in correspondence with their own constituents.

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bluPosted on10:54 am - Nov 8, 2016


“ZAM1NOVEMBER 8, 2016 at 10:14 2 VotesDear Mr. xxxxx”

Agree with earlier respondents, nothing sinister here. Graham Simpson’s a list MSP for Central Scotland so it makes sense for them to divvy up the constituent workload by geography. If he’s also your local Councillor, he’ll deal with your query. Whether he’ll provide any answers is another matter. 

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AllyjamboPosted on11:19 am - Nov 8, 2016


Good news for the bears; Club 1872 have increased their share in RIFC by 192,550 shares, according to Jumping Chris Jack (News) Flash in the Herald. This has increased their share to 6.25%. For a club in dire straits this is, well, quite ordinary news of an action only helping whoever it was wanted rid of some useless shares! For anyone reading the article with their eyes open, it does, in a round about way, let the reader know that no money made it’s way into the club’s coffers as a result of this share purchase.

It is, in my opinion, merely worthy of note that some, at least, of the money raised has been used to fulfil it’s original purpose!

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wottpiPosted on11:26 am - Nov 8, 2016


I note that 1872 have bought more shares today and they are looking forward to the AGM so they can see their cash go down the pan.

“The upcoming resolutions at the RIFC Plc AGM present a possible opportunity for Club 1872 to not only increase the fan shareholding in our club but also to invest our funds directly into Rangers in return for that shareholding. We hope that even more people will join Club 1872 to invest in the future of Rangers and to ensure that our supporters have a clear and effective voice in shaping the future of our football club.”

I am sure that those wearing two hats such as James Blair will be able to assure the group in great detail that any cash injection from fans won’t be wasted.

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GiovanniPosted on12:47 pm - Nov 8, 2016


WOTTPI
NOVEMBER 8, 2016 at 11:26

I think the significance of Club1872 buying shares is that the vote at last year’s AGM for the dis-application of pre-emption rights was only lost by just over 600,000 votes (shares). Any increase in the shareholding of Club1872 potentially reduces that majority. The current board desperately need that motion passed. However, as David Low pointed out, they will run the risk of breaching the concert party rule.

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