Our First podcast features a general discussion involving our own Big Pink and Auldheid.
Since it is the first podcast there is no particular agenda save for a general chat about TSFM, the state of Scottish Football, and some few reminiscences. The chat covers a lot of ground, but establishes the ethos of the blog pretty well.
Topics discussed include FPP, Leadership, Interdependence, Scotland’s self-regard, Coaching and Nurturing of Talent, Redistribution of Income, Rangers, Forgiveness, domestic strife đ
The interview was conducted a couple of days before the latest round of Armageddon, when Big Pink and Auldheid felt safe and well đ
The link below is to the iTunes store page for our Podcasts. If you go there, you can subscribe to the podcast (on your PC or iPhone) and new episodes will automatically be sent to you.
Since we have just been approved for a spot on iTunes, the iTunes search side of things may not work properly for a day or so.
GoosyGoosy says:
February 18, 2014 at 12:47 pm
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I would doubt that Sir Dave can be bothered now, he used the football club to promote his businesses , and with his star on the wain , he is keeping well away. Most companies will have their premises swept for listening devices , remember Fergus chatting to Jock Brown at the trackside rather than the office, so I suspect it is good old fashioned ‘folk can’t keep a secret / need a few readies ‘ is why Ibrox is leaking like a sieve.
I am guessing a Ticketus type loan must be being considered to keep the lights on , they need to keep the current team together , they will be working on the principle that there are still some mug investors out there to buy into the a Rangers story
GoosyGoosy says:
February 18, 2014 at 12:47 pm
Has anybody noticed that high level leaks out of Ibrox continued even after Whyte left?
What if
Its all part of a deliberate ploy to aid the second coming of a convicted tax dodger?
Helped by another Spiv who had absolute power in the dim and distant past
A control freak who wanted to remain in control despite selling the club?
What if
RFC have been run like a Spiv business for decades?
What if
There is bugging equipment all over Ibrox ?
If so
The mind boggles at the implications
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I’ve always been in the Bampot Tendency that suspects The Man Who Would be Dave would come back. The timing was not right for him before because of the tax evasion charges hanging over him and the Court injunction that was in place freezing his assets. Lloyds were not prepared to wait any longer and wanted out. Hence the CW/CG show were booked to fill the gap and take Deadco to liquidation.
As for the bugging of Ibrox I would be interested to hear an Ally team talk. Would it go something like this: “Right boys. I want youse all tae get wired in the day. If you get the baw punt it up tae Big Lee. Lee tone doon the elbows son, you’re gettin’ yersel noticed”
What would be the point of lending TRFC money until the ST cash comes in?.
ST sales, as far as I can see,are a wee bit down on last season and a 50% price increase for next season would surely see sales drop further.
If income increased by a third there would only be around ÂŁ2m net gain bringing in a total of around ÂŁ8.5m,and this would come in spread over a few months.The amount borrowed would probably have to be more than the amount raised.
What would be the point?.
If you’re borrowing to invest in a business long term,fair enough but in this case any cash raised would be used to pay wages,the light bill etc.Why bother,especially if 6 months down the line you’d be sitting with the same overheads and no cash but now you’d also be millions in debt.
Unless TRFC can dump all the expensive contracts I can’t see a way out for them.
torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958) says:
February 18, 2014 at 1:24 pm
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My head agrees that I see no way out without big changes but my gut says differently.
I have a horrible nagging doubt that there is something we’re not seeing.
The arrogance and laid back attitude has a hint of “we know something you don’t know” about it. I just there would be more panic among sensible Rangers fans if they didn’t see some other outcome than that which the evidence points to.
I hope I’m wrong though.
Joethebookie says:
February 18, 2014 at 1:37 pm
Joe,
I get what you’re saying about this apparent lack of panic, but as Rudyard Kipling once said, ‘If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, You have probably misread the situation’. Or something to that effect đ
I can well imagine, though, how 500,000,000 bears, or 5,000,000, or even just 50,000 might know something that the rest of us don’t about their club, and not one of them shout it from the rooftops!
To be honest, though, there just might be something going on at Ibrox we know nothing about, that just might be good news for the bears. But their silence shows they (the bears) at least, know nothing about it.
At the moment they seem to be pinning their hopes on;
a) Celtic get done for dodgy land deals, and
b) The judge allowing the use of the CF tapes will prove that CW and CG were crooks and that RFC will be reinstated somehow with Dave King buying it for a ‘fair’ price. With all the debt and tax fraud behind them, of course!
In truth, sounds like the head in the sand and straw clutching attitude of… well people in panic!
Regarding Dave King
Dave King’s resignation as a director of RFC 2012 PLC was notified to Companies House on July 19, 2012.
RFC 2012 PLC (then called “The Rangers Football Club PLC”) was put into administration on February 14, 2012.
RFC 2012 PLC was put into liquidation on October 31, 2012.
With these three facts I can see that, until sometime in 2017, Mr King cannot be a director of a company in the United Kingdom which has the words “Rangers” and “Football” in its name.
In fact he cannot be involved in the management of such a company until then. I hope he hasn’t already been involved in the promotion nor formation of such a company, because he is not allowed to do that either.
Sections 216- 217 of the Insolvency Act 1986.
@ecobhoy says at 8:50pm
The intrepid investigator John Stevens aka @pzj_1 has been tweeting that he is away for a week and won’t be keeping his followers on the edge of their keyboards until he returns.
Seems he’s been summoned to Brussels to put his case to the EC about the state aid fiasco at Celtic Park.
You might get the call, I trust your passport is in order.
Campbellsmoney says:
February 18, 2014 at 2:31 pm
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Regarding Dave King
Dave Kingâs resignation as a director of RFC 2012 PLC was notified to Companies House on July 19, 2012.
RFC 2012 PLC (then called âThe Rangers Football Club PLCâ) was put into administration on February 14, 2012.
RFC 2012 PLC was put into liquidation on October 31, 2012.
With these three facts I can see that, until sometime in 2017, Mr King cannot be a director of a company in the United Kingdom which has the words âRangersâ and âFootballâ in its name.
———————————————-
Very true , but is it possible to be the director of a company that owns a clumpany which has the words “rangers” & “football” in its title ? Spivvery is a strange beast !!
hamemadesoup says:
February 18, 2014 at 2:37 pm
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Very true , but is it possible to be the director of a company that owns a clumpany which has the words ârangersâ & âfootballâ in its title ? Spivvery is a strange beast !!
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In the abstract – yes – but:
1 there is no such a company in existence (at the moment); and
2 even then he would not be allowed to be involved in the management of the “clumpany” (even at two removes).
Good Afternoon.
Seeing more speculation about King coming to the rescue. Apart from the fact that he cannot be a director he is , as some of our posters have already said, subject to severe scrutiny by the South African authorities about how much money he can take out of the country.
Not to say that he couldn’t get someone to front or that he may have money already out and waiting.
Either way if he suddenly rolls up with cereal boxes filled with cash to invest in TRFC he would be attracting more unwanted attention from the authorities.
I cannot recall which poster gave the amounts. Perhaps someone could confirm whether this is correct.
Mr Doncaster – are Aberdeen really being allocated the best seats for the League Cup final against ICT next month?
And if they are and the ICT fans are being demoted into the corners as the leaked plan suggests then …
Why?
Who drew up this plan?
Who approved it?
Their fans already had to come down to Edinburgh for a ridiculous early Mid-winter Sunday morning kick off.
I guess you think they are teuchters and as its their first ever final will just be glad to be there.
i don’t, and think the tickets should be fairly distributed – for every final.
Greg Ioannidis on Twitter dropping some subtle hints:
‘Administration.’
——–
‘One governing body could soon have a hot potato in its hands.’
——
‘It is not the definition of a club that causes problems but rather its ‘existence’ with regards to the holding company & the rules in place.’
Hoopy 7.
Where you live, will determine how much money you may move:
outside South Africa: in South Africa:
R4M in each calendar year using your: âžForeign Investment Allowance(R4M)
âžDiscretionary Allowance(R1M) in the year you leave South Africa
R5M each calendar year using: âžForeign Investment Allowance(R4M)
âžDiscretionary Allowance(R1M)
Terms and conditions
âžover 18 years of age
âžan active tax record with SARS
âža tax clearance certificate (not required for the Discretionary Allowance)
âžin possession of a South African ID document
âžSouth African Reserve Bank application
Today.1 rand = .055p
Finloch says:
February 18, 2014 at 3:02 pm
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Mr Doncaster â are Aberdeen really being allocated the best seats for the League Cup final against ICT next month?
And if they are and the ICT fans are being demoted into the corners as the leaked plan suggests then âŚ
Why?
Who drew up this plan?
Who approved it?
Their fans already had to come down to Edinburgh for a ridiculous early Mid-winter Sunday morning kick off.
I guess you think they are teuchters and as its their first ever final will just be glad to be there.
i donât, and think the tickets should be fairly distributed â for every final.
———-
I was listening to last night’s Sportsound on my travels and this sounds, on the face of it, a strange decision. More tonight apparently, before the big game (ICT v Stranraer).
I really hope Doncaster, or whoever is in charge, is made to answer on air. There’s too much gnashing of pundit teeth without the high heid yins being grilled. I’m grilling a bit of fish later and I’d happily add a few bigwigs while I’m at it đ
Campbellsmoney says:
February 18, 2014 at 2:45 pm
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”In the abstract â yes â but:
1 there is no such a company in existence (at the moment); and
2 even then he would not be allowed to be involved in the management of the âclumpanyâ (even at two removes)”
—————————————————
1 It wouldn’t take the shameless and glib one long to cobble something together
2 It wouldn’t take the shameless and glib one long to find a lackey / fire-in or puppet or two to keep enough of a distance from a fit & proper test . The man likes a lie , a purveyor of untruths , don’t underestimate his modus operandi . đ
Araminta Moonbeam QC says:
February 18, 2014 at 3:04 pm
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Greg Ioannidis on Twitter dropping some subtle hints:
âAdministration.â
âââ
âOne governing body could soon have a hot potato in its hands.â
ââ
âIt is not the definition of a club that causes problems but rather its âexistenceâ with regards to the holding company & the rules in place.â
—————————————————————————————————————————————-
While I fully understand the limitations imposed by the number of permissible characters on anyone who tweets, am I alone in finding Mr Ioannidis’ comments somewhat irritating?
What does he mean? Why can’t he just say it?
hamemadesoup says:
February 18, 2014 at 3:13 pm
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Campbellsmoney says:
February 18, 2014 at 2:45 pm
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âIn the abstract â yes â but:
1 there is no such a company in existence (at the moment); and
2 even then he would not be allowed to be involved in the management of the âclumpanyâ (even at two removes)â
âââââââââââââââââ
1 It wouldnât take the shameless and glib one long to cobble something together
2 It wouldnât take the shameless and glib one long to find a lackey / fire-in or puppet or two to keep enough of a distance from a fit & proper test . The man likes a lie , a purveyor of untruths , donât underestimate his modus operandi .
—————————————————————————————————————————————
1. No – probably not – but plenty of people have tried all sorts to get round this rule before – anyway that would involve such a new company buying either TRFC or RIFC (not impossible of course) but if it is trumpeted as a Mr David King purchase, its a bit difficult to disguise his involvement in the management and if its not trumpeted as a Mr David King purchase – then how do we know its him and why would whoever fronts it get the love of the fans (which love is pretty much reserved for Mr David King at the moment).
2. This is nothing to do with any fit and proper person nonsense. That is made up stupid football crap. This is proper law.
Good Afternoon
Tic 6709 says:
Thanks
By my reckoning his annual allowance would keep them going for a fortnight.
They really are delusional. Their team requires major investment to even stand still.
CM – I know, he tweets like Phil sometimes – a bit cryptic, or ‘I know something but not telling’. Given the parlous state of the finances down Ibrox way, most people are anticipating an ‘insolvency event’ so it isn’t really hold the front page stuff.
Araminta Moonbeam QC says:
February 18, 2014 at 3:38 pm
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CM â I know, he tweets like Phil sometimes â a bit cryptic, or âI know something but not tellingâ. Given the parlous state of the finances down Ibrox way, most people are anticipating an âinsolvency eventâ so it isnât really hold the front page stuff.
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Maybe it irritates me so much because I can’t say anything in less than 140 paragraphs never mind 140 characters.
chancer67 says:
February 18, 2014 at 2:37 pm
@ecobhoy says at 8:50pm
The intrepid investigator John Stevens aka @pzj_1 has been tweeting that he is away for a week and wonât be keeping his followers on the edge of their keyboards until he returns. Seems heâs been summoned to Brussels to put his case to the EC about the state aid fiasco at Celtic Park.
You might get the call, I trust your passport is in order.
==========================================================
Obviously no wi-fi wherever he’s going đ Reminds me of another Bear poster who used to disappear at critical moments ‘up the Amazon’.
The latest nonsense tweeted by pzj is pure comedy gold and I reckon he has become completely unhinged so some poor sod of a civil servant is in for a fun time in Brussels. He’ll end up with a head full of mince and be off on the sick for the rest of the year trying to regain his sanity đ
GoosyGoosy says:
February 18, 2014 at 12:47 pm
I’m liking your thinking Goosy.
Surely I’m not the only one that thinks the cheatery commenced upon Sir David’s arrival up the marble staircase.
Talking about Sir David, was he knighted for services to spivery ? :slamb:
And hence he gets to keep his title đ
Campbellsmoney says:
February 18, 2014 at 2:31 pm
With these three facts I can see that, until sometime in 2017, Mr King cannot be a director of a company in the United Kingdom which has the words âRangersâ and âFootballâ in its name.
————
As I understand it, the Insolvency Act does not completely prevent him being a director, but he would have to apply for and obtain court approval before this could happen.
How likely is it for this approval to be given, and what are the criteria applied?
I would be interested to hear of real case histories where a similar application has been
(a) rejected
(b) approved
and the reasons given.
BigGav at 4:23pm
=============================
Erm… Craig Whyte?
(OK,he’d served his time)
That wasn’t phoenix trading rules though Blu
BigGav says:
February 18, 2014 at 4:23 pm
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As I understand it, the Insolvency Act does not completely prevent him being a director, but he would have to apply for and obtain court approval before this could happen.
How likely is it for this approval to be given, and what are the criteria applied?
I would be interested to hear of real case histories where a similar application has been
(a) rejected
(b) approved
and the reasons given.
————————————————————————————————————————————
Insolvency (Scotland) Rules 4.81 – he would have needed to apply within 7 days of insolvency. Its too late for him.
I was not kidding when I said:-
” Mr King cannot be a director of a company in the United Kingdom which has the words âRangersâ and âFootballâ in its name.”
blu says:
February 18, 2014 at 4:36 pm
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BigGav at 4:23pm
=============================
Erm⌠Craig Whyte?
(OK,heâd served his time)
—————————————————————————————————————————–
That was a director disqualiifcation issue – not a prohibited name issue.
They are completely different things. The former prohibits you from being a director at all for a period of time. The latter prohibits you for 5 years from being a director of companies that use certain words/names.
Allyjambo says:
February 18, 2014 at 2:01 pm
‘….The judge allowing the use of the CF tapes will prove that CW and CG were crooks and that RFC will be reinstated somehow ..’
————-
Aj, I’ve off and on fiddled about on the net to see if I could find a precedent for the setting aside of a crooked ‘Administration’ and the un-ravelling of the almighty mess that that might entail. Not had any luck so far.
So I’ve emailed the Insolvency Practitioners Association to ask whether there is any relevant case law covering a purely hypothetical case of conspiracy between an Administrator and the owner of a new business, who had subsequently sold on his gains.
Because I really would like to know how a mess like that could be sorted out.
.
Why would it take the Rangers ÂŁ30 Million to be able to compete through the leagues?
Davy Hay built, de-constructed, then re-constructed a Livingston team to win each league on the way up on what would be deemed a pittance.
He also managed to finish 3rd in the SPL and win the Scottish League cup. (How he was out of the game for any length of time is beyond me, he also scouted PVH, Cadette and DiCanio whej he had the chief scouts gig at CP).
I would very much doubt if Celtic cost half of the ÂŁ30 Million to assemble.
Apologies for OT but …
Edward Snowden now rector of Glasgow Uni …
ecobhoy says:
February 18, 2014 at 3:54 pm
chancer67 says:
February 18, 2014 at 2:37 pm
@ecobhoy says at 8:50pm
The intrepid investigator John Stevens aka @pzj_1 has been tweeting that he is away for a week and wonât be keeping his followers on the edge of their keyboards until he returns. Seems heâs been summoned to Brussels to put his case to the EC about the state aid fiasco at Celtic Park.
You might get the call, I trust your passport is in order.
==========================================================
Obviously no wi-fi wherever heâs going đ Reminds me of another Bear poster who used to disappear at critical moments âup the Amazonâ.
The latest nonsense tweeted by pzj is pure comedy gold and I reckon he has become completely unhinged so some poor sod of a civil servant is in for a fun time in Brussels. Heâll end up with a head full of mince and be off on the sick for the rest of the year trying to regain his sanity đ
******************
That is assuming he really is going to Brussels AND if he is, that he is there talking to someone on EC…………..like you say, no WIFI in Brussels? I am sceptical because………….he has previous for talking bull waste…..
If he cannot read maps of Glasgow, God knows how he will find his way around the Low Countries………
Bawsman says:
February 18, 2014 at 5:17 pm
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Why would it take the Rangers ÂŁ30 Million to be able to compete through the leagues?
Davy Hay built, de-constructed, then re-constructed a Livingston team to win each league on the way up on what would be deemed a pittance.
He also managed to finish 3rd in the SPL and win the Scottish League cup. (How he was out of the game for any length of time is beyond me, he also scouted PVH, Cadette and DiCanio whej he had the chief scouts gig at CP).
I would very much doubt if Celtic cost half of the ÂŁ30 Million to assemble.
======================
You are surely forgetting that for every ÂŁ5 Celtic spend, “The Rangers” will spend ÂŁ10. The saddest part of this sorry saga is that that mentality hasn’t changed. It might even have got worse.
So that ÂŁ30 million is probably spot on.
Bawsman
Re the ÂŁ30M , it will genuinely take that to improve Rangers to be title challengers, which assumes Celtic will be doing jack about strengthening.
It also has the side effect of agents using this to pump up prices to Celtic, however the CFC mgt can see that bluff coming.
I was actually quite concerned that they would stick with Paul Le Guen (the thin one đ ) but they were not for having the slow build on sensible spending.
As soon as it became apparent that swaggering was to be back-burnered the veins started popping and eyes bulging.
Some of the fans interviewed after the Motherwell game post Ferguson stand off were astounding in the levels of rage. They demanded RAINJURZZZ men at the helm, which was code for quite another meaning which isn’t easily hidden by them.
I doubt their capacity to cope with what is to follow……………If they survive that is.
john clarke says:
February 18, 2014 at 5:04 pm
“So Iâve emailed the Insolvency Practitioners Association to ask whether there is any relevant case law covering a purely hypothetical case of conspiracy between an Administrator and the owner of a new business, who had subsequently sold on his gains.”
—————————————
John, you will of course be aware that The Insolvency Practitioners Association has already cleared Duff & Phelps concerning allegations of mishandling of the RFC (now IL) administration procedure :
http://www.scotsman.com/news/scotland/top-stories/duff-phelps-cleared-of-misconduct-over-rangers-1-2941143
These guys will hang together since to do otherwise opens up the prospect of them hanging separately. Your wording would have to be very cute I suspect to catch them out.
On a wider point, we’ve seen various periodicals links posted (ICJ most notably) that have carried articles that are trying to maintain journalistic integrity and thus do right by the public. It seems that most such campaigning likely ends up in obscurity and its perpetrators are eventually ground down to accept a lamb munching inevitability. We might have some advantage over these niche campaigns since football enjoys a profile well above its inherent value. So whilst the IPA might be happy to fob off complainants with a lip service response, this will be done in the knowledge that there will be little or no comeback. If they end up getting entrained in an argument that might end up occupying front and back pages for a number of weeks they might live to regret the potential for adverse publicity that may have been created.
On a wider again point. The frustration experienced by those trying to make their voice heard by authorities is understandable and if you all weren’t so obsessed you would all just shut up and accept that that is the way the world is. I’m sure all great dictatorships existed in this bubble. When your power appears so, so omnipotent you need not take account of the little man. However, as many posters have pointed out, the largest corporations take the whims of their customers very seriously and recognise that spotting a change in customer habit at an early stage can give them a competitive advantage and stave off potential catastrophe. An authoritarian stance that attempts to hold back the tide is destined to be washed away with the flotsum and jetsum.
What was it that someone said some time back about a dam bursting – cue the orchestra.
Okay, here’s one. What if, RIFC get the football licence transferred from TRFC to RIFC and declare TRFC as the trading arm, then let it go bust? They could then ditch the debt and the unaffordable contracts and start afresh. Would a points penalty apply if a subsidiary goes bust?
Bawsman you are taking what McCoist said out of context. He said that Rangers lost c. ÂŁ30m of players, and they’ll need to replace them with similar calibre players to be able to compete in the top league. The ÂŁ30m was an off the top of the head estimate of the values “old” Rangers had prior to liquidation, so I’m sure it could be pulled apart, but he absolutely did not say that Rangers had to spend ÂŁ30m to be able to compete.
scottc says: February 18, 2014 at 6:19 pm
Okay, hereâs one. What if, RIFC get the football licence transferred from TRFC to RIFC and declare TRFC as the trading arm, then let it go bust? They could then ditch the debt and the unaffordable contracts and start afresh. Would a points penalty apply if a subsidiary goes bust?
=============================
There is provision in the rules for a “solvent reconstruction” of a group operation. However, if the purpose is to ditch debt by making the former football company bust, then I don’t think they could claim that exemption. However this is Rangers (make up the rules as you go along) Football Club we are talking about.
Johnclarke – for some stuff on what happens when an admin goes bad have a look at the Miss Sixty administration fallout.
neepheid says:
February 18, 2014 at 10:08 am
If Wallace was serious about getting through on cost-cutting alone, without an administration, his review period would have been about 24 hours. This is just a poxy little football business, after all, not British Aerospace. All very strange.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
If we assume Wallace is a Spiv, then the 120 days is simply cover for accumulating the extra points needed to cover the Admin deduction
If this assumption is correct
The Admin Statement will not explain why it took 120days to do something a smart lawyer and accountant could do in a day I bet the 120 day figure wont be mentioned ever again
And
The timing of Admin is inextricably linked to achieving a certain number of points
And
Ally knows it and so also will the players
Castofthousands says:
February 18, 2014 at 6:00 pm
‘….you will of course be aware that The Insolvency Practitioners Association has already cleared Duff & Phelps..’
———
Indeed so,Cot.
And as you say, most of these organisations are little more than ‘interest groups’ bolstering themselves and their trades by ‘raising standards of professionalism’.
However,they do, at least on paper, recognise that a bad apple among them can do them a lot of mischief, and realise that they must have at least the pretence of a structure of internal discipline etc.to deal with the bad apple when complaints come in.
Whoever-if anyone does- reads the email I sent will probably not connect my general enquiry with the ‘saga’, and of course I wouldn’t expect any kind of reply to refer to it.
Someone might, however, take the time to tell me that, for example, it is unheard of for an Administration to be annulled on the grounds of the crookedness of the Administrator. Or, conversely, that there may indeed be precedent for that, or some explicit power vested in the courts.
I am actually quite interested in the question, because, as I understand it, stolen property even if bought innocently from the thief, still has to be returned to the original owner, and tough luck on the innocent purchaser.
At the very least, someone will be wondering in what Court it has been ruled that ,as my email says, ‘leaked emails and tapes purporting to suggest collusion between Administrator and purchaser of the assets of the company in administration may be used in evidence..’
Campbellsmoney says:
February 18, 2014 at 7:11 pm
‘.Johnclarke â for some stuff on what happens when an admin goes bad..’
———-
Just about to make the link, but the wife needs on the pc RIGHT NOW! I’ll get on it later. Thanks.
john clarke says:
Just about to make the link, but the wife needs on the pc RIGHT NOW! Iâll
And you can say goodbye to you’re cash now john đ
Oh dear, that Miss Sixty admin sounds a bit tricky…
http://www.accountancyage.com/aa/news/1807932/miss-sixty-administrators-accused-misconduct
RyanGosling says:
February 18, 2014 at 6:34 pm
19 17 Rate This
Bawsman you are taking what McCoist said out of context. He said that Rangers lost c. ÂŁ30m of players, and theyâll need to replace them with similar calibre players to be able to compete in the top league. The ÂŁ30m was an off the top of the head estimate of the values âoldâ Rangers had prior to liquidation, so Iâm sure it could be pulled apart, but he absolutely did not say that Rangers had to spend ÂŁ30m to be able to compete.
=========================================================
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spfl-lower-divisions/mccoist-rangers-may-need-30m-to-return-to-top-1-3307214
What’s your point Bawsman? That article is exactly what I said earlier. He does not say they need to spend ÂŁ30m to compete. He says they lost roughly that value of players and they need to be replaced with a similar calibre. It would be possible to do so with free transfers and youth players without spending a penny in transfer fees, if you had top quality youth set up and scouting. Obviously rangers do not have the things at present, but anyway my original point was that you were taking McCoist out of context as is proven clearly in the article you helpfully posted.
Just glanced at the link actually and the headline takes it completely out of context as well.
Cluster One says:
February 18, 2014 at 7:48 pm
‘…And you can say goodbye to youâre cash now john .”
———
Not tonight for a change, Cluster One,- no John Lewis or Harvey Nicks or M&S sites accessed by Mrs C- just latest pictures o’ the Oz granweans ! đ
RyanGosling says:
February 18, 2014 at 8:50 pm
Whatâs your point Bawsman? That article is exactly what I said earlier. He does not say they need to spend ÂŁ30m to compete. He says they lost roughly that value of players and they need to be replaced with a similar calibre.
———————
Ryan, not sure why you are having a go here. McCoist is clearly implying that he cannot be expected to compete without replacing 30m worth of lost talent, that to all intense purposes means, spending 30m.
To defend your (and McCoist’s) position and back-up a flawed argument, you then state this could be done by free transfers etc… That again would be to imply that is what McCoist meant, that is clearly not what he meant and you know that so why argue the point?
Charlotte2Weeks has woken up again on Twitter. This one is interesting:
The Administration fee wasn’t paid by SSco it was paid by 5088. This is vital as it is evidence that Zeus loaned to 5088, Craig Whyte.
Followed by:
No agreement was made to transfer assets from 5088 to SScot. A novation needs the consent of all parties, it wasn’t.
john clarke says:
February 18, 2014 at 9:10 pm
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Cluster One says:
February 18, 2014 at 7:48 pm
ââŚAnd you can say goodbye to youâre cash now john .â
âââ
Not tonight for a change, Cluster One,- no John Lewis or Harvey Nicks or M&S sites accessed by Mrs C- just latest pictures oâ the Oz granweans !
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Dinna be a grip min! Book the flights, I recommend Emirates business class, it’s a long way.
I am not at all having a go. Several posts were made ridiculing mccoists claim that rangers would have to spend ÂŁ30m to challenge through the leagues. Since mccoist made no such claim I felt quite justified in pointing that out.
Replacing ÂŁ30m of talent is not the same as spending ÂŁ30m. This is not in any way a flawed argument. Signing young players and developing them, free transfers, bringing through youth players are three ways. It is not ridiculous to assume that rangers could make a profit on a player, and by that reasoning it is entirely possible to replace ÂŁ30m of talent without spending ÂŁ30m.
That is what I meant. I do not know for a fact what mccoist meant, all I know Is what he said and earlier posters this evening were reading more into his words than what he actually said for the purposes of ridiculing the statement.
Wouldn’t it be the case that the Scotsman would clear this article with RFC before publication, headline included? Anyway, I can only read McCoist’s comments as saying that ÂŁ30m, maybe a bit more, maybe a bit less, will have to be spent on players to allow TRFC to compete in the top league. Clearly the journalist who wrote the article, and the headline writer, came to the same conclusion.
We have to remember that McCoist is a product of the Walter Smith school of management, so in that context, his comments make perfect sense.
Araminta Moonbeam QC says:
February 18, 2014 at 9:25 pm
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I have said it since day one, C Whyte has not gone through 5 months of due diligence and all the BS to be “conned” by an obvious con artist in Green, C Whyte stills owns everything of importance with RFC TRFC or RIFC, he’s always had control but it was important to be seen not to be. C Whyte is the man still, have no doubt. Everything has gotten so complicated that everybody has assumed TGEF was long gone trying to eek out a payment, no not at all, TGEF has provided income for everyone to do their job, Green, Stockbridge and everyone else got paid, Green his chateau, that story was the OK to CW (happy out Craigy go for it fill yer boots) Early and all the others, Mathers etc played the game, the pay off is the assets after this controlled admin. guaranteed, nothing to me has been clearer since day one
Campbellsmoney says:
February 18, 2014 at 3:27 pm
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hamemadesoup says:
February 18, 2014 at 3:13 pm
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Campbellsmoney says:
February 18, 2014 at 2:45 pm
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âIn the abstract â yes â but:
1 there is no such a company in existence (at the moment); and
2 even then he would not be allowed to be involved in the management of the âclumpanyâ (even at two removes)â
âââââââââââââââââ
1 It wouldnât take the shameless and glib one long to cobble something together
2 It wouldnât take the shameless and glib one long to find a lackey / fire-in or puppet or two to keep enough of a distance from a fit & proper test . The man likes a lie , a purveyor of untruths , donât underestimate his modus operandi .
âââââââââââââââââââââââââââââââââââââââââââââ
1. No â probably not â but plenty of people have tried all sorts to get round this rule before â anyway that would involve such a new company buying either TRFC or RIFC (not impossible of course) but if it is trumpeted as a Mr David King purchase, its a bit difficult to disguise his involvement in the management and if its not trumpeted as a Mr David King purchase â then how do we know its him and why would whoever fronts it get the love of the fans (which love is pretty much reserved for Mr David King at the moment).
2. This is nothing to do with any fit and proper person nonsense. That is made up stupid football crap. This is proper law
——————————————–
CM , I actually agree with you on both points . I think I’ve started to succumb to some strange mental condition . Since those heady days back on RTC , I’ve seen them die and return as Sevco . The pessimist in me sees a few “incarnations” to come , I just can’t shake the thought . Dave King (I know , I know) seems to be the bear with the bucks . Ill-gotten or not , and again the pessimist in me sees him pulling it off somehow . The SFA and SPFL don’t seem to mind a “Rangers forever” either , so as you say , it may not be King , but I’m sure the authorities would try to overlook any connections if he tried . Just a layman’s view , obviously . I know I’m in the right place to be put right , thankfully
Araminta Moonbeam QC says:
February 18, 2014 at 9:25 pm
Charlotte2Weeks has woken up again on Twitter. This one is interesting:
The Administration fee wasnât paid by SSco it was paid by 5088. This is vital as it is evidence that Zeus loaned to 5088, Craig Whyte.
Followed by:
No agreement was made to transfer assets from 5088 to SScot. A novation needs the consent of all parties, it wasnât.
———————————————————————————–
Couple of thoughts here:
New info from CtH? after the court rules her info is admissible,info that’s surely damning to D&P.
Also,we’ve seen Whyte,Green exchange directorships with 5088 at will,Green actually trying to wind them up at one point.Was the statement by RIFC claiming 5088 as a subsidiary false?.
No one from RIFC has challenged the companies house info on director resignations/appointments.Surely if RIFC insist 5088 was a subsidiary then they would have taken some sort of action to defend their position.
Also,we must ask why Whyte,unless he is,as suspected,in collusion with Green and others,did not challenge the so called novation to Sevco Scotland at the time or since.
john clarke says:
February 18, 2014 at 9:10 pm
Not tonight for a change, Cluster One,- no John Lewis or Harvey Nicks or M&S sites accessed by Mrs C- just latest pictures oâ the Oz granweans ! đ
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JC…all hope and prayers that all is well in the Antipodean branch of the Clark(e) extended clan…?
Courtesy of KDS:
Updated piece from the record.
Running actual Charlotte Fakes tweets..
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/rangers-court-battle-charlotte-fakes-3159443
A MYSTERY blogger who leaked secret recordings of Craig Whyte and Charles Green on the internet is set to become the focus of a ÂŁ28million Rangers court case.
Last year the Charlotte Fakes Twitter account caused a furore among Scottish football fans after releasing a tranche of tapes and documents about the Ibrox crisis.
At the time much of the information could not be covered by newspapers and TV stations because of legal concerns over its source and authenticity.
But this week a judge ruled that some of it could be used as evidence in a court case, reigniting interest in Charlotteâs shadowy online world.
Rangersâ liquidators BDO are locked in a legal battle with Whyteâs lawyers Collyer Bristow, claiming the law firm was partially responsible for the downfall of the club, and guilty of negligence and breach of trust.
Collyer Bristow have denied the allegations.
And in a pre-trial hearing held on Monday in Londonâs Royal Courts of Justice, judge Mr Justice Newey ruled that recordings of Whyte in conversation with others involved in the takeover released by Charlotte Fakes were admissible as evidence.
As well as tapes of Whyte discussing his Rangers takeover, the account published a host of highly embarrassing e-mails between the club and their PR advisors, along with documents concerning the clubâs finances.
In some of the recordings Green and Whyte appear to discuss their plan to carve up control of Ibrox.
In one tape thought to have come from Charlotte Fakes, Green says to Whyte: âYou are Sevco, thatâs what we are saying.â
In another, Whyte launches an attack on manager Ally McCoist, saying: âHeâs been saved by this process. Disorganised guy. Desk in a total mess with papers from six months ago. He wouldnât have been there if it werenât for the admin process.â
In yet another recording Rangersâ then finance chief Brian Stockbridge discusses selling ÂŁ5million of shares in the club to a convicted fraudster on Interpolâs most wanted list.
Stockbridge is heard talking to Whyte and the clubâs axed commercial director Imran Ahmad about a possible cash injection from Rafat Rizvi, who is being pursued by police.
Stockbridge says: âHow widely is it known? Rafatâs name is not mentioned anywhere, is it?â Ahmad replies: âNo, it is.â Stockbridge says: âYou could get a headline saying, you know, âConvicted…ââ
But Ahmad assures Stockbridge âthereâs no paper trailsâ linking Rizvi to Rangers and adds: âThereâs no connection.â
Stockbridge says: âIf someone starts digging in there…â
During the discussions, Whyte asks Ahmad: âSo Charles and Rafat are closer than you and Rafat?â Ahmad replies: âIâd say the relationship is equal.â
Rizvi features on Interpolâs wanted persons list under the name Ali Rafat Rizvi – and has done since 2009.
He was sentenced, in absentia, to a 15-year jail term in Indonesia for allegedly stealing from Bank Century, in which he was a shareholder.
But Rizvi, a UK national who was born in Pakistan, has been able to live as a free man in London and Singapore as there is no extradition treaty with Indonesia.
The Charlotte Fakes leaks- followed by more than 10,000 people online – also targeted Rangers PR man Jack Irvine.
In emails he appeared to boast about bullying journalists and he signed one message off, âNo surrenderâ.
The account led to a huge online debate, with fans discussing who was behind it and whether the documents were genuine.
The blogger seemed to have unlimited access to sensitive print and audio information and many of the audio recordings appeared to have been made by Whyte himself.
At the time various theories concerning the source of the leaks ranged from Whyte to Green to a mystery overseas hacker.
To this day the true source is not known, despite sustained attempts by many of those written about to establish the bloggerâs identity.
But there is general consensus that the information was genuine.
In court on Monday Cyril Kinsky QC, representing Collyer Bristow, said there were concerns that the recordings may have been illegally obtained, but he claimed that they had been circulated widely on internet forums and so were no longer confidential.
Last year Police Scotland said they were investigating the source of the leaks, but Mark Phillips QC, representing BDO, told the court that police last week dropped their objections to the recordings being used as evidence and that Craig Whyte himself had no issue with them being heard.
Philips argued that transcripts of the recordings should be partially redacted to remove references to confidential legal advice received by Whyte, and Mr Justice Newey agreed that edited transcripts should be made available.
The case is due to be heard next January.
The Spivs Tactics Book contains a lengthy chapter on how Spivs can muddy the waters and confuse the authorities by suing each other, then spinning out the court cases for as long as possible.
The Charlotte2Weeks tape (59 minutes) was clearly edited to cut out the mention of names and specific facts that would be unhelpful to the narrative that Whyte would prefer us to follow.
There’s also a very careless piece of editing near the end when a piece of conversation lasting around 30 seconds is repeated.
Mind you, Mr Cohen at BDO may well be just the man to unravel this sordid plot and call those responsible to account.
The only shame is that we will have to wait till next January for the trial to begin.
And that’s if there are no delays.
ryan,
“That is what I meant. I do not know for a fact what mccoist meant, all I know Is what he said and earlier posters this evening were reading more into his words than what he actually said for the purposes of ridiculing the statement.”
For me , herein lies the problem. Mccoist ALWAYS means more in his words than he actually speaks. ,Its the reason that so many non rangers fans , specifically in the last 2 years have really taken a dislike to him , when in the past he was just accepted (by many celtic fans too) as an ex gers player who was now a Question of sport cheekie chappie. ”
He has shown his true nature many times with his dog whistle statements , downright dangerous rants and totally irresponsible utterances. Remember the qc asking why Mcoist was asking,” who these people where? “, when he knew? The guy was getting threats to his family etc .
Once or twice , you could put down to pressure of job etc but to come out constantly playing the happy chappy im good for a joke guys nonsense , when secretly trying to keep his wages secret from the fans and play the loyal servant all along taking an absolute fortune in wages to beat painters and brickies , the guys a massive part of the problem . Any team out of ibrox, wanting to actually play its way up the leagues fairly needs to get rid of him and his sneaky ways. Hes appealing to the lowest common denominator and if he eventually wipes them off the planet again , then he will have to take a large slice of the blame.
nickmcguinness says:
February 18, 2014 at 10:17 pm
——
The only shame is that we will have to wait till next January for the trial to begin.
——
On the upside, the Record seems to be blazing a trail in wheeling out all the CF material for our delight and delectation in the interim.
Could the CF tapes have been put out on the internet with the express intention of facilitating their use in the trial? Might explain the desperation of CF to have them posted on here, where a rather large audience already existed ready to explore every avenue they opened!
Charlotte2Weeks â@Charlotte2Weeks 2h
Zeus “loaned” ÂŁ8.5m. This is a serious breach of the rules as you cannot “loan” Investment funds to yourself. Thus the immediate transfer.
=======================================================================
OK I had a few vinos watching Man City but I just don’t follow what Charlotte2Weeks is trying to say here. Where is there any evidence that Zeus loaned ÂŁ8.5 million and why would they need to when the price for the Rangers business and assets paid to D&P was only ÂŁ5.5 million.
And what is meant by saying that Zeus lent investment funds to itself? What would the point of that be? Surely if it was lending investment funds it would have been to Sevco 5088 or Sevco Scotland and not to itself.
In any case I’ve never been convinved that Zeus as a company actually invested anything into Sevco 5088 or Sevco Scotland. We know that individuals within Zeus were pre-IPO investors in Sevco Scotland but not original placees in Sevco 5088.
However there was the ÂŁ2 million ‘Zeus Undertaking’ by Zeus Capital Ltd to D&P to meet the obligations contained in the offer to purchase the business and assets of Rangers. Zeus also provided a loan facility of ÂŁ590k to pay the consideration due to D&P under the Asset Purchase Agreement.
It also may be whoever is behind this latest CF imitation has become further confused with the loan advanced by Imran Ahmad as an individual and not as a Zeus employee to Sevco 5088 Ltd on 11 May 2012 for ÂŁ200k to pay a deposit to D&P which secured ‘exclusivity’.
At the end of the day these various facilities and loans were repaid mainly in the shape of shares but they didn’t start-out as investments although the cash-flow provided was critical in ensuring the deal was done. So I can’t see which rules were ‘broken’.
I’m left once again with this ‘new’ cf thinking it’s a poor imitation of the original and brings no new material but a faulty analysis of what is already in the public domain.
Allyjambo says:
February 18, 2014 at 10:31 pm
Could the CF tapes have been put out on the internet with the express intention of facilitating their use in the trial? Might explain the desperation of CF to have them posted on here, where a rather large audience already existed ready to explore every avenue they opened
=====================================================================
AllyJ
I don’t know if that was the express purpose. However their was a bit of speculation along those lines in the toing and froing at the hearing. I said wry smiles as to how it got from Craig to Charlotte đ
As we all now know regardless, it was felt as the material had been around so long unchallenged (maybe due police enquiries) that the sensible pragmatic approach (now they were no longer interested) was to use all the material. I stress not just the tapes. (subject to redaction).
Allyjambo,
I’ve never had much doubt that CtH was on the MBB side of the fence. Our scepticism stemmed from that – despite the rush to believe from those elsewhere who only wanted to see something negative about the new Rangers.
It would be good to get to the truth, but to do so, it is necessary to question EVERYTHING. In my opinion CtH was never questioned satisfactorily (with the exception of here on TSFM).
We did not want to bite the thing off whole whilst we had doubts about the motives. It was always a matter of trust. Since Whyte could not be trusted, neither could CtH. I am still not convinced that the Big Lie isn’t hiding amongst the morsels of credibility-building truths.
Having said that, CtH never needed TSFM to get an audience. There’s as big an online audience feeding happily on negative Rangers stuff as there is swallowing the New Moonbeams. CtH never needed us to get famous đ
CtH may yet prove to be damaging to TRFC – but won’t be damaging to Whyte.
Bag of snakes springs to mind.
While the silence from CEO Wallace is deafening is anyone else wondering why Phil Mac appears to have gone awfae quiet.
A wee post, perhaps indicating ‘patience’, may help put some minds at rest that he wasn’t sold a pup.
ecobhoy says:
February 18, 2014 at 10:56 pm
Re: Charlotte2Weeks
==========================================
I had assumed that the new CF was a Celtic fan who didn’t quite grasp some of the complexities involved in the story.
However in vino veritas so to speak I am now wondering whether this is another piece of PR smoke and mirrors to confuse and denigrate the original CF material since it’s now going to be used in the court case next year.
I accept the theory could be far-fetched but I can certainly think of one big PR fish in the small Scottish media pool that would benefit greatly if Charlotte2Weeks actually managed to throw any doubt or confusion on the original CF material. This is especially so given that we have no idea what the original agenda was or how the ‘evidence’ presented might have been ‘tweaked’ or ‘selected’.
Some might argue about timing and Charlotte2Weeks pre-dating the court hearing the other day. However it would have been known for quite some time that the use of the CF material wasn’t going to be opposed by any of the parties and therefore the judge was likely to give it the green light. From memory Charlotte2Weeks only appeared near the end of January.
I, along with Geronimo, have always been of the opinion that Minty is lurking somewhere in the background and far from being a patsy, CW was put forward to take all the crap coming his way for a price. What Greens role was and how it became a mess is the fly in the ointment. I don’t think this was the plan so this could be the switcheroo. CW, CG, IA et al were all part of dumping the debt and carrying on as if nothing had changed, with I may add, their friends with pin stripe suits and highly polished brogues. All this would have been within the realms of legality, morally corrupt but aren’t most high fliers
wottpi says:
February 18, 2014 at 11:10 pm
While the silence from CEO Wallace is deafening is anyone else wondering why Phil Mac appears to have gone awfae quiet. A wee post, perhaps indicating âpatienceâ, may help put some minds at rest that he wasnât sold a pup.
========================================================
What you say is always a possibility although I doubt if Phil would have gone so ‘heavy’ unless he has confidence in his source/s. However if we are really getting into the Walter Mitty World then a source could have earned trust by feeding previous material to establish their bona fides – it could have been relatively minor in the grand scheme of things but been correct.
However Rangers are either skint or they ain’t and even that isn’t the be all and end all of the story. What is really important is what the spiv end-game for Rangers is and I have always believed we will never learn that in advance. We will wake-up one day to the news as will the Bears although I have the funny feeling they will see it as positive having been told that it is all part of the rocky, character-forming road to recovery and world dominance.
As usual we will be dissecting the financial realities and predicting the next admin event after the one that I still believe is about to happen unless a Fairy Godmother appears in the marked absence of any Sugar Daddies. Still there ain’t a lot of fairy Godmothers about after the end of the panto season đ
Does that wee article in the DR pose a wee conundrum for CEO Wallace? What should he do to fulfil his responsibilities as a CEO to protect the company that pays him? Should he:
1. Issue a statement that the club being referred to as “Rangers” in the article is nothing to do with the club called “Rangers” that plays at Ibrox?
2. Sack Jack?
3. Resign?
4. Navigate the hover pitch somewhere safe?
5. All the above?
Seriously though, are they not damned if they make a statement and damned if they don’t? Point out the different club angle and they alienate the punters, don’t and they alienate the market?
Resin_lab_dog says:
February 18, 2014 at 11:36 pm
ecobhoy says:
February 18, 2014 at 10:56 pm
But as I pointed out there is no ÂŁ8.5 million in the Balance Sheet because that was the figure for a CVA and not the reduced ÂŁ5.5 million for an admin situation.
Also if you look at the various transactions in terms of dates and the signing of agreements and the change from Sevco 5088 to Sevco Scotland the transactions are not simultaneous and even the loan from Zeus wasn’t actually repaid to the company but issued in shares to Richard Hughes.
Same with Imran – his loan was partly redeemed by shares issued to him personally and not to Zeus which was his employer.
But the ‘new’ CF hasn’t provided a scrap of new material as far as I am aware. Just a reworking of the ‘old’ CF material and as I have mentioned before tonight I find the logic used to be flawed.
It might look superficially that Zeus were having their cake and eating it and it might even be the case but I just don’t believe there is any evidence to support the claim especially when such a basic error is made between ÂŁ8.5 and ÂŁ5.5 million.
In any case this isn’t of any importance IMO wrt what was going on with Sevco 5088 which hinges IMO on whether CW was duped or whether the whole thing was just a big charade from the start and is still continuing.
That to me is the key question and it becomes a deflection to claim that Zeus broke the rules. Even if they did, so what? Nothing will happen to them and it doesn’t help us get at the truth by uncovering either the carefully planned plot or just Big Hands seeing an opportunity to cash-in Big Style and going for it and to hell with everyone including CW, Zeus, Imran and last but not least – The Rangers.
Forget Minty,for now.
He is holed out in India,I understand ,there are call centers that he runs ,as for a return to these islands ,they will be under the radar,no he is finished and will try his poker hand with his buddies at some other unfortunates expense but he knows the court cases are starting to play out and are not going to be good ,as for the other david there will be no recognition from anyone other than the hourdes for the allowance he is wiling/trying to throw at them ,he has no solictor in the world that will draw a payment on his Mother’s Jersey accounts that are worth their salt .
February 18, 2014 at 10:17 pm
Mind you, Mr Cohen at BDO may well be just the man to unravel this sordid plot and call those responsible to account.
The only shame is that we will have to wait till next January for the trial to begin.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
It could be worst
This saga could end tomorrow
At least we are guaranteed another 12 months of naughty naughty things to read about
Great for filling in the time between supper and bedtime
Something to look forward to
ecobhoy says:
February 18, 2014 at 11:59 pm
“….or just Big Hands seeing an opportunity to cash-in Big Style and going for it….”
Dave Bassett perhaps offers a clue ….âIâve said before how he said to me if he could make more money turning Bramall Lane into a potato field then heâd do it.” and, “Heâs loyal to the people who employ him.”
In the context of the comments set out by Dave Bassett above married with CW’s questioning IA ref CGs closeness of relationship with RR …. how likely is it that CGs ’employer’ was RR and CW really was duped by CG/RR?
Maybe ….. just maybe, this really is nothing more than a case of the con man conning the con man and this is where the carefully designed ‘Charlotte Fakeover’ falls flat on it’s face?
essexbeancounter says:
February 18, 2014 at 9:52 pm
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Thank you, eb, things are going pretty well with my son and family. The wee baby that had the major heart surgery is about two weeks behind her twin sister in the nearly-walking stage. Other than that, you would not know which of them had had the problem that this time last year was a source of great anxiety. Seeing them on Skype is such a joy.