Our First podcast features a general discussion involving our own Big Pink and Auldheid.
Since it is the first podcast there is no particular agenda save for a general chat about TSFM, the state of Scottish Football, and some few reminiscences. The chat covers a lot of ground, but establishes the ethos of the blog pretty well.
Topics discussed include FPP, Leadership, Interdependence, Scotland’s self-regard, Coaching and Nurturing of Talent, Redistribution of Income, Rangers, Forgiveness, domestic strife 🙂
The interview was conducted a couple of days before the latest round of Armageddon, when Big Pink and Auldheid felt safe and well 🙂
The link below is to the iTunes store page for our Podcasts. If you go there, you can subscribe to the podcast (on your PC or iPhone) and new episodes will automatically be sent to you.
Since we have just been approved for a spot on iTunes, the iTunes search side of things may not work properly for a day or so.
As a daily (hell, sometimes hourly!!) visitor, and less than frequent poster, I would like to thank everyone, fans of ALL teams, for keeping me up to date on the goings on down Govan way…
Living in Houston, I have very little access to the SMSM (thankfully), and therefore it is unusual for something not on my PC screen to make me think about the situation regards Rangers fans, but entering the community I reside in over the weekend, I almost lost control of my vehicle as the ‘Quote of the day’, posted next to the gates, struck me like a thunderbolt…
The quote is from Mark Twain, a chap not well versed in the trials and tribulations of the OF, but his words had a Nostradamus-like quality, in relation to the mindset of the majority of vociferous bears..
“It’s easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled”.
I now know what authors tomes lie on Charles Green and Ally McCoists bedside table..!!
Gordon smith and big Derek Johnstone were in perth Australia this weekend not sure if it’s a world tour of the 500,000 or not but as part of their q and a session one of the first questions asked was do you believe that Charles green is still involved at ibrox.,before our intrepid duo could answer another bear shot the questionnaire down saying we,re here to talk about football none of that nonsense will be discussed,I,m sure a night of the history of the old club with fascinating stories of gullane sands and jocks jungle fighters ensued.now which one of you mentioned the avoidance of facing the music by ra peepul.
In keeping with the spirit of the podcast, reflecting on a number of different issues in Scottish Football, I too, in my day job had a very interesting conversation today, with an executive from a satellite broadcasting company, who was forthright about the challenges affecting him in his business. Namely the lack of interest in the Scottish game and specifically the need to get The Rangers, back in the top division of Scottish Football, as quickly as possible.
He cited a number of factors, poor viewing figures, lack of attendances at games and crucially for them fewer subscriptions, as contributing factors as to why the Scottish game is languishing at present, especially behind the EPL. I don’t have enough technical information to verify these?
I am aware however that the EPL receives billions in revenue, while Scotland literally gets the crumbs from the table!!
When I asked him about the current TFRC financial position, he indicated that he knew it was bad, but could not see an insolvency event taking place. Either this is inside information or complete stupidity?
I challenged him to suggest ways that the game in Scotland could be improved without the O*d F**m paradigm and he indicated that he couldn’t see another way. It is the moneyspinning game(for them) and raises the profile of the brand across the UK & beyond…….and he did not like my retort that doctors, nurses and the police wouldn’t agree with him 😥
So, there you have it. The fate of Scottish Football lies in the hands of TRFC getting back to the top division, as quickly as possible and normal service being resumed.
SPFL TV anyone?
Smugas…….
Clearly you were never picked last……
Smugas, ………Not all the time, but usually found masel standing between two jumpers……
re : Rangers/Sevco haters .
As an atheist Celtic fan with a brother who supported Rangers , any oneupmanship on OF game days was entirely football based . I didn’t hate him , I love him , but I couldn’t stand his team . Note that I didn’t use the word hate , not yet anyway .
When Rangers were liquidated he was finished with the game , heading for the golf course instead . He hated SDM for his suicidal economics and hated what his club had done to the Scottish game . I hate them for the very same reasons .
I have no ill feelings towards DAFC , they overspend ,they hit administration and the fans rally round and save the club . Same situation with HMFC , fans have rallied round ( including this Celtic fan going to their friendly with Wolfsburg) and are currently exiting admin .
However , the Sevco situation is completely different . Finger pointing , dog whistling , threats , Lawell conspiracies , fractured supporters groups and the audacity to claim that they are the same club . Wild claims about GCC that the brilliant Echoboy booted straight into touch , same song book , faux dignity and a line of spivs that would fill a McGills coach (other coach firms are available) .
So , what’s left to love about Sevco ?
Answers on the back of a stamp to the usual address ! 🙄
Me…..always 😳
Cygnus X-1 says:
February 10, 2014 at 3:34 pm
…I too, in my day job had a very interesting conversation today, with an executive from a satellite broadcasting company… need to get The Rangers, back in the top division of Scottish Football, as quickly as possible…
================
And referring back to Auldhead’s observations about the SFA, and it’s own declaration that it doesn’t believe its remit is to govern / control the Scottish game / clubs (?)…
In the absence of an effective, professional, and aware governing organisation, is this confirmation – of sorts – that TV companies now effectively control, [indirectly], Scottish professional football ?
[I discount the SPFL as it is a commercially focused organisation.]
Cygnus X-1 says:
February 10, 2014 at 3:34 pm
I challenged him to suggest ways that the game in Scotland could be improved without the O*d F**m paradigm and he indicated that he couldn’t see another way. It is the moneyspinning game(for them) and raises the profile of the brand across the UK & beyond…….and he did not like my retort that doctors, nurses and the police wouldn’t agree with him 😥
_______________________________________________________________________
My feeling is that this is a very accurate description of what our football has become to those down south. A sideshow. The EPL is the glittering carnival and Scotland provides the Bearded Lady, the geek, or some other Freak Show.
Sadly, after 100 years of proof that sectarianism pays, I find it difficult to argue with that charge.
English audiences enticed to come and watch the feral dogs at play to a backdrop of songs of hate, and the authorities in Scotland ever anxious, Uncle Tom-like, to ensure that it is provided at all costs.
Do we have so little respect for ourselves that we are happy to play the hillbillys?
Sadly yes.
Well I’ve finally tracked down the guy responsible for the sale of the NHS land at Lennoxtown to Celtic and religion is a big part of his background as he was a Church of Scotland minister 😆
Desperate Bear Land ‘experts’ have put anyone with a Timmy sounding name into the corruption frame for the Lennoxtown land sale to Celtic. I won’t name them and I won’t name the person who sought to energise an economically blighted Lennoxtown.
I know that the ‘experts’ have shown a distinct lack in the objective research department so this is your chance to find the ‘culprit’ – a clue is that he has a Scottish name that should be acceptable to them 🙄
One thing for sure is he is a very well respected businessman and has done great work in economically blighted areas and I’m sure he’s proud of what Celtic has done at Lennoxtown and when the housing land on the site is sold and developed by housebuilders, as economic conditions improve, then Lennoxtown’s regeneration will benefit from the vision of a businessman driven by his Christian beliefs and strong moral code which I am sure applies equally to all the others smeared by irresponsible Bears.
The problem for the Bear land ‘experts’ is when you want to prove a pet obsession and haven’t a shred of evidence then you end-up with a conspiracy theory to explain your failure. It’s even sadder when you personally attack public servants who aren’t allowed to answer back
Two points on the Satellite guys unsurprising comments.
1/ It is now widely considered to be accepted on here that the Old Firm strategy benefitted only the Old Firm and even that is only to say benefit them relative to the other Scottish clubs as the Tv deals in Norway and the like prove.
2/ Scottish football is absolutely ingrained with this notion of the old firm. Whether that is correct or not, the old firm combo was simply not going to be on the menu short term once the level of cheating, and subsequent, continuing cover-up became known. The Sat guy can sit back and say not our problem, “phone me when it’s fixed” (see what I did there) the SFA should never have been given that luxury. Three monkeys was not the response required and all teams, including Sevco have suffered for it.
TSFM says:
February 10, 2014 at 4:02 pm
I think maybe you meant ‘play the hillbilly’ rather than ‘pay’ him. However in the spirit of political correctness perhaps a poor expression as perhaps – although I don’t know – that ‘hillbillies’ might have the same objection as some do to being termed ‘bogtrotters’.
Interesting exchange on twitter
==============================================================================
cartuja @cartujakds 55m
@TheTributeAct My info: McCoist was sent cap in hand (by desperate Easdales/Wallace) to King after Wallace London trip and was knocked back.
Sir Barold Hatchback @SirBaroldMBE 53m
@cartujakds @TheTributeAct My info is the opposite- that the Easdale’s knocked King’s overtures back.
cartuja @cartujakds 47m
@SirBaroldMBE @TheTributeAct Emergency payment to pay VAT bill. King was having none of it. The ‘overtures’ are entirely different.’
================================================================================
The killer here is if they can’t pay the VAT then they haven’t an earthly of paying the PAYE on the 22nd. Dare they wait on HMRC issuing a winding up order or are D&P packing their capes as we speculate?
Anti Rangers sentiment ?
I can only speak for myself, however that would wrongly simplify my view and end up putting everything into a single category, when in fact the truth is much more complex. To get to todays feelings, its necessary to look back.
When i started supporting Celtic, the rivalry with Rangers was nothing other than a sporting one. The only people who mattered from either side were players and managers. Players respected each other generally, and Chairmen and Directors were largely invisible with regards to public pronouncements. Social media didnt exist , there was no internet. The media were more a source of news than they are today.
There were unacceptable employment practices from Rangers and an unacceptable collection of songs from both sides, however most of the time squabbling was restricted to a Saturday, as the rest of the time I was too busy playing football to worry about arguing over it. There were periods of dominance for both teams, but things changed when an egomaniac bought Rangers. This was a man who wasn’t prepared to stay in the background. He had to be the story. He had to dominate the back pages, his ego had to be fed. Because he lacked any element of class, winning wasn’t enough, humiliating your opponent was built into the modus operandi.
This humiliation involved using friendly media figures to ridicule Celtic, to promote fantasy schemes for Rangers as fact , and ultimately to attempt to get his friends at the bank to kill off Celtic altogether. We had moved from the Rangers Chairman having enough class to greet a European Champion Celtic team at Glasgow airport, to congratulate them, to a classless Rangers Chairman actively conspiring to kill Celtic .
When Celtic got their act together his ego meant disgraceful personal attacks by his media poodles on the man who was re-energising Celtic. Not content with this catalogue of classless behaviour, he then engaged in a decade long , longer actually, plan of cheating and deception. No need to repeat it ad nauseum on here, however this classless cheat deceived all of Scottish Football, except for a few at the SFA who were happy to play deaf dumb and blind as they were complicit in this scandal.
The rivalry had changed. Rangers fans bought into the ego’s bragging and classless behaviour. Thats not to blame them, they faced a blizzard of media assuring them the ego was a business genius. They, or most of them loved every moment. The propaganda was intoxicating. When things started to unravel, Rangers fans reaction was to disbelieve what was presented by the forums and blogs, as it was coming from “them”
Thats also a normal reaction. You don’t want to believe anything your enemy tells you. You are prepared to lap up positive propaganda from your own side whilst dismissing truth from the opposition. As Rangers position went from dire to terminal , positions hardened, attitudes became even more hostile. There was no sign of any acknowledgement that Rangers had cheated , no acknowledgement of completely unethical behavior. What we got instead were surreal justifications of “no sporting advantage” , crazy attempts to blame everyone else for the trauma that Rangers were now facing.
And no sign of contrition at all. None.
What we got instead, after the inevitable conclusion of Craig Whyte’s short period of control, was a return to bombast, bluster and wildly outrageous claims of superiority from Charles Green. He was a humorous interlude, so clearly bulls**tting that only the desperate took him seriously.
Which takes us full circle to where we are today. Rangers now have a CEO who , on early evidence, has personal and business integrity. Does this provide an opportunity for the rivalry to be based on sporting achievement. Maybe, but it would also help if the Rangers manager stopped his sh*t stirrer in chief role.
I understand the human reaction by Rangers fans to defend their club, i even understand , but strongly disagree with , the reluctance to acknowledge cheating and deception. Which is why ,for me the rivalry should return to who is the best team, who has the best players, who plays the best football.
With one caveat, this rivalry was poisoned by an ego maniac who cheated , deceived , evaded tax and financially doped his way through more than 2 decades. However he isn’t Rangers, and Rangers fans don’t deserve to be tarred with his dreadful reputation. They are having to suffer the trauma of his legacy . They have suffered at his hands, and in any ethically run organisation he would be brought to account , to bring closure to the rest of us and to ensure his kind can’t wreak havoc on our national game ever again.
I would like to think all supporters of all clubs can agree on that
Cygnus X-1 says:
February 10, 2014 at 3:34 pm
9 1 Rate This
SPFL TV anyone?
————
Why not? By the time current deals run out just how far will other sports have come by broadcasting their events via their dedicated youtube channels? Seems that the UCI are going down this route already to spread the word about cycling events in an attempt to win back fans and repair the damage done by Armstrong and the dopers.
The SPFL has its youtube channel in place. If there were some forward-thinking types we might see live Championship events broadcast, and other matches, eventually for a modest fee. It’s about time those outside the Premiership cartel got a bit more media coverage.
A mix of free basic, trial broadcasts, might attract some advertising and if interest grows big matches could be pay-for-view. Alternatively clubs themselves could do more to sell a match ticket online. The technology is more accessible and affordable for basic streaming broadcasts.
Not only do we need to consign the OF dinosaur to history but the whole concept of a near-members-only SPL. Central to this has got to be a bigger league with real relegation and promotion …
and then I woke up.
A hundred thousand shares bought by someone today does this mean anything.Barcabhoy great post
Danish Pastry says:
February 10, 2014 at 4:39 pm
0 0 Rate This
”and then I woke up.”
Well said Danish , unfortunately , your last line says it all . There appears to be no-one at the SFA/SPFL with an ounce of vision or business acumen . Back to the ”dreaming” for us all unless there is a major change at the top .
TSFM Says
My feeling is that this is a very accurate description of what our football has become to those down south. A sideshow. The EPL is the glittering carnival and Scotland provides the Bearded Lady, the geek, or some other Freak Show.
Sadly, after 100 years of proof that sectarianism pays, I find it difficult to argue with that charge.
English audiences enticed to come and watch the feral dogs at play to a backdrop of songs of hate, and the authorities in Scotland ever anxious, Uncle Tom-like, to ensure that it is provided at all costs.
Do we have so little respect for ourselves that we are happy to play the hillbillys?
Sadly yes.
______________________________________________________________________________
Unfortunately, I concur with your depressing analysis and unless our game finds some outstanding leaders with vision to create a new paradigm, I fear we’re destined to constantly repeat the past!
Cygnus X-1 says:
February 10, 2014 at 4:56 pm
unless our game finds some outstanding leaders with vision to create a new paradigm,
———————-
A new ‘blueprint’ you’re kidding aren’t you!!!!! 😆
Personally, I don’t want an apology since usually its the wrong person who issues it – never the actual person.
I just want an end to the vitriol that its my fault that TRFC are where they are.
I never kicked anyone while they were down.
I never requested special treatment – either for or against.
I have never boycotted or refused to go see any other club in Scotland, other than my own just immediately prior to The Bunnet’s arrival.
I have never written any article just to wind others up or printed a story when I knew it was an untruth.
I have no blame in anything that has occurred – yet when Ally McCoist does the wolf whistling or MSM blames internet bampots, why is it that it is me that is somehow made to feel that I did something wrong?
We need to accept where we are before we can move on. I don’t see that happening soon unfortunately!
Good piece Barca.
Re Its obvious that we are not having any changes at the SFA in the short term ,but i would like to think that there are foundations being laid to bring a good business model to Hampden ,it will not involve anyone presently drawing a salary at the SFA as they ALL have to go,patience is the key here as all the issues that have brought our game to where it is will have to be addressed and some have a bit to run ,we know we have the men to make this happen and there will be pain before there is gain but it will happen.
Scotsexpat, could you not just move to Bridge Of Weir ? Ok I’ll get the jacket…..
The podcast is now on iTunes, and the link to the TSFM page is here
You can subscribe to get automatic updates on the new page.
Hi Danish Pastry ,just sent you a PM
Great post earlier Barcabhoy
Very interesting meeting today. Rangers fans, 3 more wins in the cup and you CAN dig out your passport for next season.
Jack Irvine – Twitter
andygraham.66 says:
February 10, 2014 at 6:51 pm
Fake account seemingly
andygraham.66 says:
February 10, 2014 at 6:51 pm
0 3 Rate This
Very interesting meeting today. Rangers fans, 3 more wins in the cup and you CAN dig out your passport for next season.
Jack Irvine – Twitter
—————————————–
Think it’s a fake account but the bears on RM are lapping it up anyway
Just a thought, but I’ve been thinking of getting a graphic artist to do some artwork for the podcast (the one I cobbled together is a bit crummy). Before I do that, I thought that there might be someone in our number who is gifted in that regard and who would be happy to offer his or her services (for a fee if required, but preferably for free!)
To be honest, I’d rather pay someone on here than go commercial.
Any thoughts? Send to podcast@tsfm.org.uk and I can tell you the required spec etc.
What, you don’t get the papers in Renfrewshire? 🙂
Well, I posted that before reading
Christyboy says:
February 10, 2014 at 6:42 pm
Always nice having a post deleted TSFM. Tongs! 😈
Barcabhoy says:
February 10, 2014 at 4:31 pm
=========================
Very good post Barca, although coming from the same or an even earlier era than yourself I would dispute that pre-Murray it was only a sporting rivalry, but I get the point you are making in terms of how both clubs were run.
Murray has so much to answer for, yet no one is willing to call him to account. I do believe the truth will out one day though, but like the recent revelations of Thatcher’s lies during the 1980’s miners strike, the main protagonists will no longer be with us when the truth finally breaks free.
Listening to the news on the radio and an interview with the manager of the bookies favourite to lift the Scottish cup,I may be mistaken but Derek McInnes sounded like Ally McCoist,just to be sure I checked with all the big bookies and it is definetly Aberdeen that are the favourites,I checked through a few more and there it is McBookie.com has Ally’s charges as favourite’s to win The William Hill sponsored tournament,and who do the sponsors have as their favourites yep the Dons ,so Ally’s at it again,when will he grow up.
Mickleen says:
February 10, 2014 at 4:24 pm
The killer here is if they can’t pay the VAT then they haven’t an earthly of paying the PAYE on the 22nd. Dare they wait on HMRC issuing a winding up order or are D&P packing their capes as we speculate?
========================================
A key worry for me is whether HMRC will actually have the gumption to issue a WUO. That is not paranoia to think that. They were issuing them to Hearts like confetti while the old Rangers stuck two fingers up at them for months.
Great first Podcast guys.
Particularly good slant on the referee angle. Customers vv providers.
Be an interesting first Monday morning report card methinks.
The problem with offering incorrect prices is that money taken in will leave you having to amend your book
(Note this tweet was sent at 12pm so the interview with the bookies fav is a 100% lie rather than a 99% lie if it happened this afternoon, lol)
@mcbookie
Well looks like punters think we mucked up our Scottish Cup prices. Aberdeen backed from 3/1 to 9/4 favs. 11/4 Rangers 9/2 ICT 9/2 St J
Ree THE CONDITIONAL MEMBERSHIP……………It was Sevco Scotland who applied to the SFA for a licence to play football!
So when Sevco Scotland’s rangers took to the field on 29th july.There were two rangers. The original club established in 1872 in Administration and awaiting Liquidation,But still Legaly in existence.Sevco scotland’s rangers played Brechin while rangers football club remained a full member of the SFA.
At the eleventh hour a “Conditional membership of the SFA” was granted despite the fact that no such category exists within the Articles of Association.
‘Following the completion of all legal documentation, the Scottish Premier League will conduct the formal transfer of the league share between RFC (In Administration) and Dundee FC on no later than Friday 3rd August 2012.
‘At this point, the transfer of Scottish FA membership will be complete.’
As associate members they had no vote. Twenty-nine of the 30 sfl clubs accepted the rangers as associate members of the SFL while 25 clubs voted in favour of placing the newco team into the bottom tier
Bill1903 says:
February 10, 2014 at 6:59 pm
6
0
Rate This
Quantcast
andygraham.66 says:
February 10, 2014 at 6:51 pm
0 3 Rate This
Very interesting meeting today. Rangers fans, 3 more wins in the cup and you CAN dig out your passport for next season.
Jack Irvine – Twitter
—————————————–
Think it’s a fake account but the bears on RM are lapping it up anyway
=================================================================================
TAKEN FROM RM
————————-
For small measures that all add up to something huge, this phase is building into one of the most seminal in our entire history.
The prize of Europe, so soon after all the shit we have been through.
ALLY motivate them.
——————————————————————————————————————————————–
At the risk of lowering the tone but with all the that talk of seminal phases the fan who wrote may have creamed himself.
I’ll get my seminal vehicles (sic)
..
——————————————————————————–
#13 quinty
RyanGosling says:
February 10, 2014 at 12:50 pm
113
12
Rate This
________________________________________
To be fair I think the problem is that ridicule is an appropriate response in the face of ridiculousness.
The TRFC leadership have routinely provided more ammunition than would be polite to ignore in the circumstances.
Those bears that express a balanced opinion – as you yourself have done consistently Ryan – are a boon to the blog and have earned the respect and good wishes of most if not all here.
And as more bears rouse from the complacent slumber they had been enjoying for over a decade, and engage the critical reasoning that they have been conditioned to suppress, the realisations that have been exppressed all along in this forum may progressively dawn on more fans of your club. I expect their opinions on those who have played their parts in wrecking the various embodiments of the Ibrox set up and – far more importantly – damaged to the integrity of the rest of scottish football – will naturally attune more closely to the consensus arrived at here.
They will be welcomed.
Cluster One says:
February 10, 2014 at 7:56 pm
Re THE CONDITIONAL MEMBERSHIP……………It was Sevco Scotland who applied to the SFA for a licence to play football!
So when Sevco Scotland’s rangers took to the field on 29th july.There were two rangers. The original club established in 1872 in Administration and awaiting Liquidation,But still Legaly in existence.Sevco scotland’s rangers played Brechin …
===============================
Can’t remember if this has been answered previously, but…
With this innovative licensing arrangement, [presumably created by the ‘world’s bestest football administrator’ 🙄 ], over that specific weekend at Brechin ;
– which ‘Rangers’ related company held the insurance policies for the players
– which ‘Rangers’ related company held public liability insurance etc… ?
Where all insurances held in the name of Sevco Scotland ?
Or another entity ?
…or was there no insurance coverage at all ?
To be clear: only idle speculation on my part.
I am assuming that any / all policies in the name of the original ‘Rangers’ would have been terminated prior to the Brechin game.
Can anyone enlighten me if temporary insurance policies could have been created as quickly for Sevco ?
Or am I talking mince ? 😉
Arsenal were 500-1 at half time to beat Liverpool on Saturday. The Govan team are, based in their current financials, even longer odds to survive the season. The idea that they are hawking income from two cup ties as security for wongaesque loans, quarter STs and putting the begging bowl out in SA reeks of desperation.
All GW has to do is open the books.
Pity they did not have our Sandy Bryson to help, or LNS
https://twitter.com/pmcn888
Former Derry City directors disqualified-“unfit conduct including use of dual contracts”
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-foyle-west-26045159
nowoldandgrumpy says:
February 10, 2014 at 8:23 pm
Pity they did not have our Sandy Bryson to help, or LNS
https://twitter.com/pmcn888
Former Derry City directors disqualified-”unfit conduct including use of dual contracts”
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-foyle-west-26045159
=======================================================
And as it was reported on the BBC NI website, you would think, [I know], that the next logical step is for BBC Scotland sports journalists to pose a few questions to the SFA ;
– how does this Northern Ireland case compare with the Rangers case of dual contracts ?
– what action is the SFA going to take on those directors who presided over the Rangers dual contracts ? [I know]
&
– what has the SFA learned from the Rangers dual contracts case – and what action has the SFA taken to reassure Scottish football supporters that dual contracts cannot happen again in Scottish football ?
Simple, straightforward questions which will no doubt go unasked by the SMSM.
StevieBC says:
February 10, 2014 at 8:44 pm
0 0 Rate This
===
SFA response to all those questions will be:
Silence.
And Ally totaly ignoring the Cup sponsors,I am sure they will be happy at that.
StevieBC says: Cluster One says:
February 10, 2014 at 7:56 pm
Can anyone enlighten me if temporary insurance policies could have been created as quickly for Sevco ?
I WILL LET SOMEONE ELSE ANSWER THAT 😕
Cluster One says:
February 10, 2014 at 7:56 pm
At the eleventh hour a “Conditional membership of the SFA” was granted despite the fact that no such category exists within the Articles of Association.
————-
There has been too much made of this, as I explained yesterday (http://www.tsfm.org.uk/2014/01/the-blind-men-and-the-elephant-a-cautionary-tale/comment-page-32/#comment-85970).
‘Conditional’ does not refer to a category of membership – Sevco were granted “conditional Full Membership of the SFA”, the ‘conditional’ meaning simply that the membership would be revoked if OldCo failed to transfer their SPL share to Dundee by 3rd August 2012.
There is much to dislike about the Five Way Agreement, but the ‘conditional membership’ thing is just a red herring.
There have been a few posts bemoaning the glee adopted by some contributors regarding the Rangers -Sevco farrago. I seem to have missed something here. By all means lets have measured well informed & accurate posts, but the contract entered into by all (most) football fans is the expression of Schadenfreude.
Cosgrove & Cowan pride themselves on being “petty & ill informed” & yet ironically Cosgrove is also a highly respected thinker & commentator regarding our ailing game. Surely that duality is not out of place here.
While we are discussing football, let’s not loose sight of the fact that it is “football”….not a “Night at the Opera”. not that I have a prejudice regarding the refined arts, but the game is becoming more remote from it’s roots by the minute. When I attend a football match i want in order of preference, quality football, & an atmosphere that crackles with tension, the expectation & hope of victory & the fear of your team failing.
Is it unreasonable to have all of this reflected on tsfm?
Also regarding the lack of comment from sevco fans, I’m struggling to see why that can be a fault placed at the feet of the contributors who range from across the board on this forum, & a quick scan through the red white & blue sites will inform you that there is an enthusiastic hostility regarding anything that endeavors to discuss in detail the demise of the Govan institution. “if your not with us, your against us”, if you see what I mean. This mentality emanates from both the Ibrox dressing room & boardroom. not just the more rabid bloggers.
BigGav says:
I thought the condition was that all oldco football debt’s be paid?
Why would oldco fail to transfer their share? Would the SPL not hold all shares?
FIFA says:
February 10, 2014 at 8:51 pm
And Ally totaly ignoring the Cup sponsors,I am sure they will be happy at that.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Ally doesn’t worry about such things. After all I can add to my list the other day that he is an expert in sponsorship matters as well. I am sure they welcome his input and knowledge.
“If I am the managing director of the sponsors, I would have wanted it at the biggest venue, I would have thought,” said McCoist.
http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/rangers/246474-rangers-boss-baffled-by-call-to-hold-ramsdens-cup-final-at-easter-road/
I was tremendously impressed by the first podcast.
It was extremely professional- sounding technically, and Auldheid and Big Pink spoke so comfortably and easily and , indeed, eloquently, that they might have been actors reading from well-written and well-rehearsed scripts.
And what they had to say was, I think, a good lead-in to further discussion of ‘our game’.
Very well done to all who produced, directed, and starred.
I look forward to more.
Mac Tomas says:
February 10, 2014 at 9:12 pm
There have been a few posts bemoaning the glee adopted by some contributors regarding the Rangers -Sevco farrago. I seem to have missed something here. By all means lets have measured well informed & accurate posts, but the contract entered into by all (most) football fans is the expression of Schadenfreude.
Cosgrove & Cowan pride themselves on being “petty & ill informed” & yet ironically Cosgrove is also a highly respected thinker & commentator regarding our ailing game. Surely that duality is not out of place here.
_________________________________________________________________________
Apples and pears Mac – until we are all comfortable with the same treatment for all of our clubs – which is what Cosgrove and Cowan do well and equitably.
The rush to outrage when Celtic are slighted on here is usually led by the very same people who ridicule Rangers and cast their fans as stereotypes.
Contrived pettiness is fine as long as people on the end of it get some respite and a chance to have the same laugh at the expense of others. Right now we don’t see many Rangers fans on here. How many Celtic fans would survive the same treatment?
Before I don my flame retardant underthingies, I know that the huge majority of Celtic fans on here eschew te systematic derision of Rangers and their fans.
Shovel back on rack 🙂
It has been a relatively quiet day on here and I am sure they are both busy but no response from Greennock Jack and Ryan to the basic questions of how, as Rangers fans, do they see things panning out.
Given plenty non Rangers fans on here have a multitide of theories on what is happeneing and what is going to happen I still find it mystifying that the a simple question and a request for a view on things down Govan nearly always fails to get an immediate and simple response.
To be fair I think it was Streerpike who was about the only one that came back with a half decent answer on how he thought they could manage if they got through to the next tranche of season tickets.
Is the solution so secret they can’t say anything, or is the possible pessimistic outcome so horrible that they dare not talk about it?
If the future for the Govan club lies somewhere in between, why the silence?
wottpi says:
February 10, 2014 at 9:26 pm
%%%%%%
Ally’s use of the word ‘would’ is informative. He would, if he could, bet on the stadium outcome, he would like to know ‘who are these people’, he would like to offer his support to the CEO, he would like to accept a 50% pay cut, he would like to give his vote to a supporters’ club, he would support his squad 100% in their rejection of the offer of a 15% pay cut.
It places him at two points removed from the action, swap would for wish. Ally is playing a game with both his board and his supporters. He will, however, cop for 1000000 shares at +1p and a severance of ±£800 000. He will walk away up on the deal.
I see the media are now going heavy on the Ibrox fan ownership thing. One thing that amazes me (well not really) is that as soon as Alex Rae recently became unemployed he is deemed to be an authority on everything. It seems as if every media outlet is giving him column inches or airtime. Strangely he is never asked about his EBT which is soon to become a court discussion again along with others. The sad thing is if Sevco go belly up some time soon the same media will claim they have been discussing it for weeks previously, and will not entertain any notion of the bampots getting on the ball before them.
Can’t see it changing anytime soon.
wottpi
To be fair, neither Ryan nor Jack has ever pretended to know what the answer is – if there is one. My problem from time to time with Jack is that instead of engaging consistently (yes he does contribute in a valuable way imo – but sporadically) he tries to undermine individuals on here – and the blog itself by baiting people.
If we had another couple of Jacks maybe they wouldn’t feel so isolated as GJ does, which may be the cause of is frustration.
Ryan has no such agenda, and is a healing presence on the blog. I hope he continues to post because people are willing to give him the benefit of the doubt in way they won’t for GJ given his sometimes difficult manner.
Cluster One says:
February 10, 2014 at 9:20 pm
0 0 Rate This
BigGav says:
I thought the condition was that all oldco football debt’s be paid?
Why would oldco fail to transfer their share? Would the SPL not hold all shares?
==============
It was a condition that all football debts be paid, but that was not the only condition. It was also a condition that the SPL share be transferred. The SPL shares were held by the individual members of the SPL, so any change in membership apparently required a share transfer from old member to new member. I remember thinking at the time, what a Byzantine arrangement, why not just cancel the old member’s share and issue a new one, but this my understanding of how it worked. D&P would have held the RFC share, one of the reasons why they were signatories to the 5 way agreement, although they handed all their negotiating rights to Charles Green, I understand.
TSFM says:
February 10, 2014 at 9:34 pm
Cosgrove & Cowan pride themselves on being “petty & ill informed” & yet ironically Cosgrove is also a highly respected thinker & commentator regarding our ailing game. Surely that duality is not out of place here.
====================================
I read earlier that Cosgrove may contribute to a podcast. He would be a fine addition as he has no truck with Celtic or Rangers. Neither though does he indulge in the absurd Scottish media practice of criticising Celtic for no reason other than Rangers are under genuine scrutiny. He will speak without fear or favour, but he won’t miss the real target, or targets.
Scots ex pat,
There is another scots ex pat coaching yon “soccer” team in Houston. A Glasgow (auchinshuggal) lad named Kinnear (more sensible than Joe, more dramatic than Greg!). Do you – Go Dynamo? We get to see him when he plays the San Jose team. He reminds me of Jackie Macnamara. Good young manager who believes in young players from their country. Dynamo go after the USA talent and Jackie is a firm believer in scots talent.
One good things about -ahem- “Sevconado!” Is that the money will be watched and scots players will get better chances to play in the top level, in Europe (opening stages), and when the better ones leave they won’t be replaced by expensive foreigners, but by scots players from the premiere and championship.
Maybe the Syfy channel in the USA could carry the scottish games. Fox plus is minging!
TSFM says:
February 10, 2014 at 9:46 pm
My guess is that it is such a mess, only the Good Lord knows the answer and I don;t believe in him!!
The fact remains that those Rangers fans who do come on here seem pretty eloquent and way removed from what passes for a commentary on events from the majority of posters on sites like The Bears Den.
I am sure many on here would like the hear the views and opinons of such Rangers fans on how they see the situation and enter into a decent debate.
The more they bait people and launch squirrels the more folk are just going to get fed up.
Ryan as you say seems very level headed and gets plenty of thumbs up, so even more reason not to be afraid of having an open discussion.
I am sure the mods would get out the red cards if folk got out of hand. However I believe many of the regular posters would welcome a bit of insight to what Rangers fans may be thinking because as discussed my friends who are Gers fans just keep shtoom when you mention it.
The earlier post re the Ozzie Perth’s supporters club saying questions on the running of the club has nothing to do with football is the exact words one a friend said to me when I tried to raised the subject.
neepheid says:
although they handed all their negotiating rights to Charles Green, I understand.
enough said
Wottpi it may have been a relatively quiet day on here, but sadly not for me elsewhere! Just managed to get back on and catch up on the day’s activity. Thanks all for comments provided on my post earlier today.
As far as being afraid of having an open discussion….actually no this is all starting to sound very confrontational! I’ll start again.
I believe your question is to how I and / or other Rangers fans see the “situation” (a very all encompassing word in this case!) at Ibrox panning out. One reason I haven’t been drawn too much on this question is because it is so difficult to answer with so little knowledge as I have of what actually goes on behind the scenes at Ibrox.
I have no idea how its going to pan out. I see no inherent reason as to why Rangers can’t build not only a sustainable business but a thriving one. I’m extremely annoyed that money raised in the IPO and in two full years worth of season ticket sales appears to have been almost completely frittered away with precious little to show for it. I feel like an outstanding opportunity was missed a year and a half ago to build a team capable of progressing through the first couple of divisions, at relatively little cost, based around young players being brought through. I’d far rather it had taken five or six years to get to the top league (struggle to remember what it is called today) but have a thriving young team when we got there, with cash to spare, than get there in three having spent all our money on a squad with limited resale value and seems to be populated with mercenaries.
And further, I get frustrated with Rangers fans, and come to think of it fans of other clubs on here in equal measure, ridiculing match performances from Rangers consistently. Currently a League 1 (correct?!) side, top of the league by a mile, and yet its not good enough. Cause we’re not just a League 1 side, we’re Rangers, and it is that attitude from both friend and foe which has helped to encourage the powers that be to spend their way into the trouble we’re in now. Again.
So how do I see it all playing out? The only knowledge I have of the detail of the behind the scenes finances at Ibrox is what I have gleaned from speculation on here. I think it is safe to say it is not rosy. If we manage to come through this presently, and if Mr Wallace is as sensible as he seems, I would like to think that lessons will have been learned but on experience of recent years I’m skeptical of that. I don’t know about mooted sale and leaseback of Ibrox ideas as have been the source of much speculation here, but to be perfectly frank in that scenario I’d rather ditch Ibrox than be held to ransom by profiteering city boys. Let them sell it to Tesco for whatever they can get for it. Then we’ll have a share issue and buy it cheap from Tesco, you can always get a bargain there. Where’s the tongue in cheek icon…?
I would like to take the time to apologise to any blog members who took offence to comments I made earlier today. My intent was to provoke debate rather than cause outright offence, and admittedly I made an error in judgement with my approach.
In mitigation I offer only that I am not always as eloquent as I would like to be and as a result my intent was unclear.
As a result I have caused offence for which I wholeheartedly apologise.
I love the way the iTunes page describes Big Pink and Auldheid as “clean”!
Also told that the podcast has had 400 downloads 🙂
I hope neither BP nor AH are looking for royalties !
Greenock Jack says:
February 10, 2014 at 10:45 am
24 30 Rate This
Re. Why is there not more participation from Rangers supporters?
Let’s not dance around the issue. The main reason that there aren’t many Rangers supporters who come on here or last very long is that the general tone of the blog is anti-Rangers.
_______________________________________________________________
The reason that some Rangers supporters don’t last long is because they cannot accept the truth.
Or don’t want to.
I would gladly read any well put argument by any Rangers supporter in mitigation of Rangers actions in the last 10 years and more, but I have yet to read one that stands up to even the flimsiest examination.
An excellent podcast by Auldheid and BigPink.
The bar has been set high for those attempting the next one.
I for one hope that RIFC plc and/or TRFC Ltd do pay the VAT, Income Tax and NIC deducted from their customers and employees. If they renege on or refuse to accept their legal obligation to do so then the public purse (all of us) will, against our wishes, be subsidising their unsustainable (and in my opinion based on what I’ve learned thanks to Hirsute Pursuit, Campbellsmoney and others; what should be illegal) business practices.
If they do not then all of us have grounds for holding those responsible in contempt, including our govererning body the SFA Board and Officers.
This, the public rejection of “Rangernomics” (Copyright if any acknowledged / claimed) and sincere contrition for the damage it has caused to RFC plc’s 276 creditors, Scottish Professional Football and society are essential before reconciliation can help everyone to move on.
Referring to an earlier post today about Sevco going to Bibby Financial Services. Is it beyond the realm of possibility that GW would bring in enough cash to see them to the season’s end by hiving off a portion of ST’s just now,( a la Ticketus) and pay them back in May when the ST sale takes place? Food for thought?
RyanGosling says:
February 10, 2014 at 10:17 pm
Ryan thanks for the response.
Great to finally get some views.
One of the main things that strike me and I am sure many others wonder, is what do you think the reaction will be if it was to take another four years to get back to the top, and it could well take that long if CEO Wallace were to wield a big axe
As you imply because of the SDM years a sense of entitlement has surrounded the club and the reality of the situation may not have struck home. If Rangers fans are not happy with the performances just now what is their reaction going to be if its gets a bit tricky in the championship next year.
How many will buy into the ‘hard struggle back’ and are they convinced that this is what the current board want?
One thing many of us on here got wrong was the fans reaction and the amazing turn outs at Ibrox so far. Do you get the feeling the current crowd level is sustainable if prices go up but the performances are similar and next year the results don’t come?
From my point of view they really have to get up to the Premiership ASAP or it could be a mini Leeds / Porstmouth situation.
RyanGosling says: February 10, 2014 at 10:17 pm
I wholeheartedly agree with everything in your post, especially the following para:
And further, I get frustrated with Rangers fans, and come to think of it fans of other clubs on here in equal measure, ridiculing match performances from Rangers consistently. Currently a League 1 (correct?!) side, top of the league by a mile, and yet its not good enough. Cause we’re not just a League 1 side, we’re Rangers, and it is that attitude from both friend and foe which has helped to encourage the powers that be to spend their way into the trouble we’re in now. Again.
Thanks for another honest and inspiring post.
Having read and reflected on the above I will try my best to moderate the tone in my future postings accordingly. That will be a huge personal challenge when my topic is alleged tax evasion and wilful tax avoidance.
I hope other posters will reflect too.
ekt1m says:
February 10, 2014 at 10:55 pm
&&&&&&&
The problem with future sales of tickets (like ticketus) is that this stroke has already been pulled and ticket us have had to knock their pan in to get their money back!
Also, once a ‘reputable’ company has had a swim in the cesspool, they’re aren’t averse to doing it again. ‘Fool me once…’
the only company willing to front cash is going to be a ruthless, ‘what do you get for marble these days?’ sort.
wottpi says: Fe bruary 10, 2014 at 11:01 pm
I’ve not seen anyevidence that the additional revenues flowing from participation in the top division of the SPFL will prevent the current “Rangernomics” practiced at RIFC plc / TRFC Ltd from a similar outcome to what has already befallen Leeds United and Portsmouth.
Difficult to say. There would have been much more tolerance for a long struggle back I believe if things had been done properly in the first place. But now I feel like there is a lot of anger at how the last year and a half has gone and I don’t know how that may turn out. I do believe that if a real, clear plan is out in place to emerge on sound financial footing with a flourishing business over a realistic period of time, and that was thoroughly and painstakingly openly communicated to the fans on an ongoing basis, that it would be supported. But i don’t believe that anyone has come up with such a plan yet.
tsfm says Feb 10th 2014 9:43pm
“Apples & pears Mac”
a reasonable reply, I’ve often said myself that We Celtics supporters smugness can be as irritating as Sevco supporters sense of entitlement, though what I was driving at was that when this whole Govan farce started there, was anger & delight “across the board” at the carnage, not just from Celtic supporters. That in itself was a surprise to me & is why forums like this are valuable, simply because not just the lamb lubbers opinion is represented but challenged in a meaningful way.
Only the fans of other clubs who have experienced insolvency can comprehend fully what the Govan people are going through, but even from these groups I don’t get a feeling that there is a groundswell of sympathy. The continuing failure to acknowledge culpability for the ongoing mess is the biggest barrier to building bridges. Particularly the flawed but dogged pursuit of dodgy land deals Although at some point someone from somewhere is going to have to be the bigger person.
Also I should have said earlier it was a very enjoyable podcast…. well done guys.. !
RyanGosling says:
February 10, 2014 at 10:17 pm
26 2 Rate This
Ryan, as you say we are all merely speculating with information gleaned from various sources. None of us really know what the spivs’ end game is or where this will go.
I’m really just looking for an opinion and none of my Rangers supporting friends will answer. How many of the 38,000 season ticket holders do you believe would support a ‘new’ Rangers playing somewhere other than Ibrox?
How many would support a team finishing third, fourth or fifth after a couple of years in the Premiership?
sannoffymesssoitizzhizzemdyfonedrapolis says:
February 10, 2014 at 10:50 pm
The cost to the public purse of the SFA’s mis-governance has still to be highlighted , but you can start at £2.8M for the wee tax case and count from there.