David Low
represents a highly significant component of the history of Celtic FC and consequently a highly significant component of how Scottish Football has panned out in the last 20 years.
As Fergus McCann’s Aide-de-Camp, Low was instrumental in helping him formulate and implement the plans which ultimately allowed control of the club to be wrested from the Kelly and White families. Low also helped McCann to rebuild and regenerate Celtic as a modern football club.
His views are unsurprisingly Celtic-centred, and this interview reveals his ambition for the club to ultimately leave Scottish Football behind. That may or may not be at odds with many of our readers, but the stark analysis of the realities facing football in this country may resonate.
He provides a window on the pragmatism of the likes of McCann, Celtic and many other clubs in respect of the demise of Rangers. He pours scorn on Dave King’s vision of a cash-rich Rangers future, and provides little comfort for those who seek succour for our failing national sport, believing that Scotland will find it impossible to emerge from the football backwater in an increasingly global industry.
Agree or not with Low’s prognosis, it is difficult to deny his compelling analysis of our place in the football world.
This seems to have only appeared at the latter end of the last thread. Apologies if not but surely some journo has to point out the bloody obvious to him?
http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/468746/EXCLUSIVE-Kirk-Broadfoot-thinks-Rangers-should-be-awarded-UEFA-Cup
HirsutePursuit says:
April 4, 2014 at 11:56 pm
Apologies to those sick of the fleets of semantics, but I think the term “undertaking” is proving almost as slippery as “club” when it comes to delving into the details on this sevco saga (if that’s possible!)
You posted:
It is important to recognise that an undertaking has a clearly defined meaning within both the SPL, SPFL and SFA Articles which all state that:
“…unless the context otherwise requires, words or expressions contained in the Articles bear the same meaning as in the [Companies] Act.”
Although the LNS interpretation simply ignored the Companies Act definition,.I have posted here previously that the reference in the SPL articles to “the undertaking of a football club” is simply recognition that a Club can be either company or unincorporated association.”
1. With respect, I think you may be mis-reading the said football Articles by applying the Companies House definition of “undertaking” to them. I’ll try to explain my own no-doubt-flawed interpretation..
1a) Firstly the SPL/SPFL definitions, from which we are told:
– “Club” refers to the “undertaking of an association football club”, which is “owned and operated” by the…
– “Member”, which refers to the “holder of a Share” and must be a…
– “Person”, a term referring to a “natural person, corporate or unincorporated body”.
Taking these into account, it appears that the “corporate” body is the “Member”, which jeopardises any interpretation of “undertaking” as also referring to a corporate body (otherwise we’ve the absurd situation that every “Member” is a parent company of another company). There I would read the word “undertaking” as being used in the sense of the noun; “A task that is taken on; an enterprise:”
1b) The SFA wording of:
– “6.1 Clubs or associations undertaking to promote Association Football according to the Laws of the Game and these Articles”
Here again “undertaking” seems not to be referring to a corporate/unincorporated body, but appears to be used in the sense of the verb; “commit oneself to and begin (an enterprise or responsibility); take on:”
2. I have some personal experience of the law regarding TUPE and would direct your attention towards the use of “undertaking” in that legal context, which I think could be the relevant sense in which the word is in SPL/SPFL Articles context in defining the football “Club”.
2a) A TUPE scenario, as occurred between Rangers and Sevco, only applies in instances of:
– “a transfer of an undertaking, business…where there is a transfer of an economic entity which retains its identity;”
…with “economic entity” described as meaning:
– “an organised grouping of resources which has the objective of pursuing an economic activity”
– We are told that where ownership of a company changes through shares being sold to new shareholders, this is “no transfer of a business or undertaking: the same company continues to be the employer”.
So here we have the law making reference to a “business”, or an “undertaking”, being an entity in itself (albeit not a legal entity) that can transfer between employers (the company, the partnership, the legal entity etc…)
2b) It is in this preceding sense that, from my reading, the SPL/SPFL definition of club as “undertaking”, refers.
Clearly this is no accident. It is a wording specifically intended to give a football club a franchise-like quality of having the potential to be pass-the-parcelled around between the Companies that of course “carry the can” when it comes to debts/liabilities, Sevco the daily reminder of that of course.
Suffice to say that so far Edinburgh is not enjoying a showcase football event. Hope things improve fast, cos its pretty unpleasant in the Grassmarket and elsewhere.
An occasional disgrace and a permanent embarrassment indeed 🙄
If we’re going to run a sweepstake on tomorrow’s SMSM reporting bags me ‘heavy-handed policing”.
13 arrests in Grassmarket so far
Kilgore Trout says:
April 6, 2014 at 3:55 pm
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If we’re going to run a sweepstake on tomorrow’s SMSM reporting bags me ‘heavy-handed policing”.
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“overreaction”
Campbellsmoney says:
April 6, 2014 at 5:06 pm
Kilgore Trout says:
April 6, 2014 at 3:55 pm
If we’re going to run a sweepstake on tomorrow’s SMSM reporting bags me ‘heavy-handed policing”.
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“overreaction”
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“Chelsea fans”
I thoroughly enjoyed the new podcast. Well done BP and DL.
On the subject of the podcast, I must say that I found David Low’s views on the absolute necessity of a “Rangers” in the top flight utterly depressing. I am assuming that his views reflect, or at least are in tune with, the corporate view of the Celtic board, which if true does go some way to explaining the events of the last two years. A “Rangers” at any price, rip up the rule book, ignore the awkward fans (who are paying for all of this, let’s not forget) , forget any concept of morality, integrity, or stuff like that. Well for me that’s not football, or not how it should be, at any rate. It can’t just be about money, and business models, and marketing. You might be able to flog a bent game to lots of people, but you won’t be getting a halfpenny out of me.
David Low justifies this ultimately in terms of European success for Celtic. Well, I’m sorry, but I would rather see Celtic compete in a straight league in Scotland, than screw over the rest of Scottish football to ensure that a “Rangers” gets special treatment to allow Celtic to get the competition and money they need to succeed in Europe. Apart from anything else, that strategy could easily badly misfire even on its own terms, leaving Celtic playing second fiddle to Rangers in very short order.
Porto have done just fine in Europe over 10 years, without megabillions, or 500 million worldwide fans, or leaving their home league. Couldn’t Celtic aim for a similar performance? Just by developing good players?
As for the idea of Celtic (and Rangers too presumably) joining a British League, talk about going against the tide of history! Are Celtic a Unionist club now? I just hope it never happens in my lifetime. A total betrayal of Scotland and Scottish football, if it ever happens. It would truly break my old heart.
0-0 at full time – extra time to come in the Challenge Cup Final. My immediate thoughts are the Rangers side have more cutting edge than Raith Rovers but do not look like a side being paid many multiples of the opposition. I have to confess to not watching a full 90mins of a Rangers match since their rebirth. Mohsni is a big awkward lump though he does his job and plays within his own limitations – looks like a decent signing. Nicky Law is the best player on the park – quick and dangerous. I like Booth for Raith – I expect there are a few teams keeping tabs on him, or should be.
Not the worst game I have watched but looks to me like two Championship teams (I watch plenty of Championship football) playing in a Cup Final for lower league clubs.
burghbhoy says:
April 6, 2014 at 3:41 pm
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I’m really, really reluctant to address this issue in detail again; but your reference to TUPE is simply not relevant.
Article 4 of the SPL’s AoA states
There is no reference whatsoever to The Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment) Regulations.
The Companies Act has a very specific meaning for the word “undertaking”.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/part/38/crossheading/meaning-of-undertaking-and-related-expressions
Under the same SPL Article that states
it also says:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/143094724/Spl-Articles-of-Association-as-at-22-October-2012
Note “…in respect of a Club… …it entering into a Company Voluntary Arrangement…”
This section is in specific reference to a Club – not to the Owner and Operator of a Club nor to the SPL Member.
There is a clear and direct reference to the possibility that a Club (if a company) can:
* enter into a Company Voluntary Arrangement
* having shareholders
* liquidator appointed
* meeting of creditors on insolvency or on the winding up of a company
other references could apply equally to unincorporated associations:
* Administrative Receiver appointed over assets
* ceasing to carry on business
This section only makes sense if a Club is an undertaking as defined in the Companies Act. it makes no sense otherwise.
The LNS interpretation of the word “undertaking” in the context of the SPL’s AoAs (which you appear to share) seems to me, at best, to be a very basic mistake in interpretation.
I will add one more part to this…
If (in the unlikely event that) an SPL Club had been an unincorporated association, there would have been some difficulty if the expressions Member and Owner & Operator were not defined separately from Club.
To be a Member of the SPL a Club had to have legal ownership of a SPL share.
Since an unincorporated association has no legal personality, it cannot legally own anything. Therefore a committee member (of the Club) would have had to register the SPL share in his or her name – or form a company to simultaneously hold the SPL share and be a member of the Club (which remains an unincorporated association).
This is where the Companies Act definition comes in handy:
So, when we talk about an undertaking it includes the corresponding persons and officers. So ownership of the SPL share – vested in a committee member – can be treated as being held by the Club.
Whichever way it is done, the SPL Articles always presume that the registered SPL Member/Owner & operator has legal personality (natural or corporate) – even if the Club has not.
In the case of a company, the Cub’s Owner and Operator and SPL Member is normally the Club itself. I could however, see that a holding company – e.g. Rangers Group/Wavetower – could have registered the SPL share in its name and have met the definition of Owner & Operator/SPL Member. Since it had not done so, the Club (RFC plc) owned and operated itself and held membership of the SPL in complete accord with the SPL’s AoA at the time.
scapaflow says:
April 6, 2014 at 4:32 pm
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13 arrests in Grassmarket so far
__________________________________________
Contrast with League cup final at Celtic park.
I believe the official total for arrests and disorder fromn 47000 travelling fans was – erm zero. As it should be.
I Could be wrong – it wasn’t reported widely.
More trouble to follow I suspect. Raith have just scored.
If nothing else Ally can point to today’s game as justification for needing to spend loads more money on players for the Championship.
We are all Turnbull Hutton!
😀
‘Mon the lang toun’s finest!
Sometimes football and sporting integrity is a great leveller ❗
If I may, I’d like to qualify my post re enjoying the recent podcast. I thought both BP and DL were clear, succinct and articulate. I understood all of it ( which is a surprise to me) and found it educational. I don’t understand the process of Celtic moving from Scottish Football but don’t like the sound of it.
Sorry for my plebishness? on this point.
I don’t want any form of ‘the Govan team’ in any league unless it was ‘straight’.
Podcast was much better than the game
But well done Raith
Good burghers of Edinburgh are now battening down the hatches.
Do we get to play Bayern Munich again now?
Sporting Integrity 1 TRFC 0
Congratulations to Raith Rovers
The good guys can sometimes win
fair summing up of the match from the daily record
“And that is it! Game over and Rovers have won it. After the season they have had, bumping around the lower half of the Championship, struggling for results – this truly is a great result for them. The match itself was atrocious. It bore no resemblance at all to a real game of football and the blame for that lies squarely at the door of Rangers who arrived here to a stadium packed with their own fans and with a budget far greater than that of the Fifers. John Baird the hero right at the death. Meanwhile, serious questions will be asked of Rangers boss Ally McCoist. His team has played like this all season, but to not be able to raise your team for a cup final and to have no plan B is a damning indictment. Back soon with the link to the match report and gallery.”
Congrats to Raith Rovers!
Would love to know if Turnbull was invited to lift the cup too.
…and as they say, Karma’s a b*itch… 😉
What will the sleekit one spout to the MSM now?
Folks
At first it seemed as though we were going to do dignified. Sadly some people aren’t falling into line.
Fair play to Raith Rovers, and I am happy for them. However, there are several fan sites out there which are excellent outlets for Schadenfreude.
Please save that and the refereeing conspiracies for those other places..
Interesting reaction from Ranger’s fans. The inevitable Ally must go. but, many rightly point to the years the locusts have eaten. They were given an opportunity to build a team in the lower leagues, bring on talent, instead they spent a fortune on seasoned pros, who it turns out can’t beat Raith Rovers.
There does seem to be a growing realisation, that assuming they make it to next season, the Championship is very far from a gimmie.
The boards risk and issue matrix, just got a bit redder.
TSFM says:
April 6, 2014 at 7:20 pm
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Folks
At first it seemed as though we were going to do dignified. Sadly some people aren’t falling into line.
Fair play to Raith Rovers, and I am happy for them. However, there are several fan sites out there which are excellent outlets for Schadenfreude.
Please save that and the refereeing conspiracies for those other places..
_____________________________________________
You make the rules. And I appreciate what you are trying to do.
So sorry if any lines being crossed by me.
But I have to say I am genuinely delighted for Turnbull given the fear and intimidation to which his club and staff were subjected as a direct result of McCoist’s cynical and calculated attack dog speech. And I have enormous respect for the way he stood up to the bullies rather than backing down.
I am relieved and pleased that the unavoury elements of TRFC – those who rallied to the call by Charles Green to boycott the DUFC match – have had their thunder stolen today.
Its a tough deal for the decent TRFC fans, losing in this way.
But it was a tough deal for us Caley fans a couple of weeks back losing our first major final at the wire. We are big boys. We can cope. Losing is part of the game… if its played fairly. So they should take this on the chin and get on with it in my view, like decent fans of any other club would.
And I also don’t think anyone here is suggesting anything about TRFCs managers capabilities in footballing terms that a large contingent of the bears aren’t saying themeselves.
Agree that we should maybe try and be bigger than that.
So apologies if lines were crossed. But my delight on behalf of Turnbull Hutton is genuine and heartfelt.
Did anyone notice Neil Doncaster sitting beside ‘The Rangers’ directors today. At least it is nice to see that he has finally come out of the closet. Seriously, given all that has gone on, why in name of sanity did he choose that particular seat?
I mean at least he could have sat beside Turnbull Hutton but perhaps dear old Turnbull told him where to go.
It is utterly bizarre how this man is still in his position. He is unwanted by the vast majority of fans in this country.
This leads me to an idea.
Why doesn’t the season ticket holders of each club be given a vote on who should get posts in the SFA?
The fans either get a vote in the actual election or they get a vote to decide how their individual club should vote.
This would make the SFA really accountable to the fans. It would also ensure that the clubs themselves are aware of the strength of feeling on certain individuals, the positions they hold, and more importantly the organisation they represent.
As fans we are continually told that the SFA is representative of the clubs but the clubs themselves are accountable to their individual fans or customers as we are now referred to.
Resin_lab_dog says:
… and that is fair comment RLD. It’s the sniggering from some that is less than TSFM-ish though 🙁
TSFM says:
April 6, 2014 at 8:20 pm
Please God help me not snigger at any time 😉
justshatered says:
April 6, 2014 at 8:08 pm
The fans may not like Mr Doncaster, but, as far as the club;s are concerned he is doing a grand job.
As long as the clubs think they can safely ignore the the noises off stage from the fans, absolutely nothing will change.
April 6, 2014 at 8:40 pm
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justshatered says:
April 6, 2014 at 8:08 pm
The fans may not like Mr Doncaster, but, as far as the club;s are concerned he is doing a grand job.
____________________________________________
My information is at odds with this Scapa. He ceratinly does not enjoy universal respect and admiration as I understand it.
Resin_lab_dog says:
April 6, 2014 at 9:00 pm
Would hope so, but if that’s the case why did he get the job? It’s a bit like the noises after the election of President for Life Ogilvy, the message was nobody really wanted him, but there was nobody else.
In both cases its either nonsense, cowardice or both
I think the Board of Rangers have a real problem on their hands. It might be mitigated slightly if Dundee Utd fail to knock them out but after today’s performance I think even most Rangers fans would say that’s a BIG if.
The problem is that Ally is no longer a seat-selling magnet or should that be magnate 🙂
Many of his staunchest supporters on the Darkside have thrown-in the towel today – including the legendary gogzy on RM – and want him to GTF. It’s probably the case that a new manager being appointed could boost ST sales. But can the Rangers Board afford the pay-off to get rid of McCoist ❓
It’s a real conundrum – Ally won’t walk away and, unlike many, I don’t think that’s just down to his love of the folding-stuff. He might be a sh*te manager but he loves his club and they’ll need to sack him to move him.
Yea they could make him Director of Football but they’ll still have to pay him his dosh and I have never had any doubt that his full salary is still £800K + and if he has to walk then he will need to be paid-back any temporary deduction he has agreed to.
Ally is useless as a manager but he’s good at one-line TV quips and he’s also absolutely no mug when it comes to money – trust me on that one 😎
Scapaflow
I always thought the IPO minimised the risks and whoever invested knew SFA about football.
Auldheid says:
April 6, 2014 at 9:11 pm
fair point
Oh I should have said that I note the Rangers ‘Land Experts’ are still spouting their bile about Celtic being on the brink of oblivion.
I have often wondered whether any of this strange collection of half-wits actually have any connection with Rangers and if they have might I say: ‘Now is the time for all good Bears to come to the aid of Rangers’ rather than being obsessed about another club that it might not be playing against for a long time 😆
ecobhoy says:
April 6, 2014 at 9:09 pm
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Does he know where the skeletons are buried?
jean7brodie says:
April 6, 2014 at 9:15 pm
ecobhoy says:
April 6, 2014 at 9:09 pm
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Does he know where the skeletons are buried?
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That’s a good question. I would think not because IMO he’s not the kind of guy I would trust with a secret 😆 But who knows what his pal Walter has told him and he certainly knows the score.
TSFM says:
April 6, 2014 at 7:20 pm
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Without sniggering I hope I’m allowed to wonder just how so many media commentators are forecasting that Rangers team will beat Dundee Utd next week. I’m not saying they can’t beat Utd, but what a terribly poor, one dimensional team Rangers are.
Re RLD et al…
Surely this is Karmageddon – or is that next weekend?
Well done Raith & TH.
Scottish Football needs more of this.
ecobhoy says:
April 6, 2014 at 9:09 pm
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Yea they could make him Director of Football but they’ll still have to pay him his dosh and I have never had any doubt that his full salary is still £800K + and if he has to walk then he will need to be paid-back any temporary deduction he has agreed to.
…
Director of Football?
I fear that if they made him a director of traffic they’d be worrying car crashes in the Albion car park before the week was out.
Over on Rangers Rumours – where the denizens do seem to be predominantly the moderate minded bears of the more sapient persuasion, the considered consenus is also that he has now run our of rope.
No doubt McCoist is a club icon. But so is Broxi bear. And he doesn’t get a say in the starting 11.
So I predict that – for the third time Mr McCoist will be found to have given the bears just the ‘rallying cry’ the board needed come ST renerwal time.
Although on this occasion the rallying cry will take the form of a cut off yelp of pain as his head is handed him on a plate and a ceremonial boot is administered to the jaxsey.
Too good a chance for them to miss!
And before I head-off to sleep I wish Hearts all the best tomorrow as they have faced the situation they were landed in with dignity and they truly deserve a break. Good Luck Jambos ❗
Enjoyed the podcast. Celtic need a strong challenge but it does not have to be from Govan. I do not want to play a team that have financially cheated and have shown absolutely no remorse. Money is important but not as important as sporting integrity.
Talking of sporting integrtiy well done Raith and Mr Hutton.
The BBc’s take on today’s final
Enjoy
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/26916842?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
Two words – Fall Guy
More than two words – No money to do anything about it.
scapaflow says:
April 6, 2014 at 9:07 pm
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Resin_lab_dog says:
April 6, 2014 at 9:00 pm
Would hope so, but if that’s the case why did he get the job? It’s a bit like the noises after the election of President for Life Ogilvy, the message was nobody really wanted him, but there was nobody else.
In both cases its either nonsense, cowardice or both
_______________________________________________________
I am not sure if that is how it works. And I have reasons for this.
From my understanding, the attitude of club boards w.r.t. those who adminsiter the game is largely one of deference. Understandable deference. Its the type of deference that almost any professional commercial enterpise operates to maintain discipline, and which is all too well understood by the kind of people running our clubs.
Its the kind of deference that is shown by businesses when dealing with auditors, or – to use another analogy – with head teachers when dealing with Ofsted inspectors.
This makes sense when you think about the power that the SFA and SPFL weild in relation to the clubs. This is effectively the power to bankrupt those clubs. – a well placed ban here, a fine there. A points deduction there.
It is often the directors own money at risk and when the SPFL or the SFA say jump, the boards say ‘how high Sir’.
Now If the club boards acted as a collective body, they could overrule the administrative institutions but this does not normally happen: Because this would require a load of normally competing interests to get together and effectively form a cartel against their own regulators. The only instance I can actually think of is the refusal to admit TRFC to Championship.
Apart from that, it’s a case of divide and rule for those running the SPFL and SFA boards.
Think about all of the prattling that went in in regard to league reconstruction, with Tom set againt Dick and Peter set gainst Paul? A thousand incoherent voices, without agreement.
And the regulators know this. And the regulators have the power to step in and prevent cohesion and alignment with a whole armoury of tools at their disposal e.g. a Lee griffiths style disrepute charge here, a bit of sabre rattling over the conduct of some fans or a manager there, or similar.
I now believe that some – possibly a great many – Football club board members really do not actually fully appreciate the extent of RCOs conflictedness and the extent to which he is exposed. I believe this because I actually asked one. And I got veryt a puzzled look. See… they get their information from the MSM just like everyone else. And – worse – they get their advice from the SFA and the SPFL. Opposing the election of the SFA president would consitute a direct challenge to an authority that weilds considerable power over you. You’d need to have a good reason!
But if they did all know how much ‘evidence’ of ‘conflict’ existed against CO, I think he would very probably have been history long ago.
See you must also bear in mind that the club boards have a massive amount of other stuff to do just to keep their own clubs functioning. And a great many of them have day jobs and their own businesses to run as well.
The whole regulatory aspects are ‘background noise’ to them – a policeman in the corner – and they are way too focused on not falling foul of it through their own limitations or shortcoming , to have given credence – or even serious consideration – to the possibility that it might in fact be seriously corrupt>
A reason to oppose CO’s election?
Alas… not on the very limited analysis at their disposal.
I think this will play out over time and it will change though.
justshatered says:
April 6, 2014 at 8:08 pm
Did anyone notice Neil Doncaster sitting beside ‘The Rangers’ directors today.
——
Yes indeed. An interesting and barefaced choice of seat.
Apologies to TSFM if I sniggered a bit – I was still calming down after having to explain my antics to the Mrs, who had forcefully reminded me that I support Aberdeen not Raith Rovers – and I should therefore not celebrate the latter’s goals to such an extent while she is trying to do the hoovering, I nearly gave her a heart attack, etc.
Having explained my feelings, I noted to her that the Aberdeen game is on telly tomorrow, and that there are a further two games to watch next weekend. Due warning has been given that at least one, and hopefully more, of these matches is likely to provoke further such behaviour.
Resin_lab_dog says:
April 6, 2014 at 10:33 pm
Yes and No. There’s some validity in your argument, but the SFA is not an independent regulator, the SFA is the clubs. While its true that at the lower levels, the reps are probably not that well informed, the professional clubs know bloody well what has happened/is happening.
IMO David Low was remarkably candid in the podcast, and paints an all too believable picture of the clubs’ perception of where their self-interest currently lies. Like you, I believe that eventually things will change, but, those who sit on the boards at the SFA & the SPFL will have to be dragged towards change kicking and screaming.
Angus1983 says:
April 6, 2014 at 10:57 pm
I should therefore not celebrate the latter’s goals to such an extent while she is trying to do the hoovering, I nearly gave her a heart attack, etc.
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I was laughing at that because my partner is back tomorrow night after a 2 week absence so the hoover will be getting laldy tomorrow.
However I did wonder about Doncaster’s choice of seat – I truly reckon the guy is a thicko if he doesn’t actually understand how that might be interpreted or even possibly misinterpreted. Scottish Football actually deserves someone with a bit more sensitivity that’s for sure.
However, I didn’t come back tonight to talk about hoovering.
I was watching Sportscene before heading to bed and the Griffiths thing came up. I have to say I didn’t actually realise he was singing a song whose words tell an ‘immigrant’ to go home.
I had posted earlier my angst at him being involed in singing a ‘slightly racist’ song. Now that I have a better understanding of what he was singing then IMO Celtic should sack him. I come from 4 ‘immigrant’ grandparents and Rangers fans would most definitely want to send two of them ‘home’ and regularly sing songs to that effect to my disgust. Especially because one-third of Irish immigrants to Scotland who were fleeing the Irish famines were Protestant.
If Griffiths isn’t sacked or moved on in the summer then I won’t be renewing my ST – it really is that simple. He should not be a Celtic player – if Hibs want him that’s up to them but IMO he’s trash and I ain’t interested now in any apology because it will be only done for financial reasons.
I won’t stop supporting my club but I will choose the games I go to which will be less than half the number I normally attend. I actually believe and support the founding principles of Celtic which is more than just about playing football.
scapaflow says:
April 6, 2014 at 11:01 pm
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Resin_lab_dog says:
April 6, 2014 at 10:33 pm
Yes and No. There’s some validity in your argument, but the SFA is not an independent regulator, the SFA is the clubs. While its true that at the lower levels, the reps are probably not that well informed, the professional clubs know bloody well what has happened/is happening.
IMO David Low was remarkably candid in the podcast, and paints an all too believable picture of the clubs’ perception of where their self-interest currently lies. Like you, I believe that eventually things will change, but, those who sit on the boards at the SFA & the SPFL will have to be dragged towards change kicking and screaming.
_____________________________________________
I was in conversation with a Director of a top tier SPFL club.
Outside of the Glasgow bubble, things are different.
ecobhoy says:
April 6, 2014 at 11:27 pm
Inclined to agree with you. Celtic knew what they were taking on, and, initially I thought the club’s reaction was both measured and appropriate. According to some Hibs fans who were there, (allegedly),Mr Grifiths started the song, but stopped before the naughty bit. If true, that sort of sleekit behaviour just makes it worse.
Like you I hope Mr Grifiths is moved on at the first opportunity compromising your values in the pursuit of success is no more on in this case, than it would be if it involved massaging tax payments.
Resin_lab_dog says:
April 6, 2014 at 11:32 pm
Then I am very glad i don’t own shares in that particular business
Resin_lab_dog says:
April 6, 2014 at 10:33 pm
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Interesting post Resin.
I’m quite fascinated by this relationship and the prospect that most club board members are in a relevant state of ignorance (of governance inconsistencies etc) compared to the average bampot.
Which would lead me to believe that we can and should educate them.
Well, that was a day to remember. Great to see the Rovers win today against the power of the “mighty” The Rangers. Surprisingly their fans were on their best behaviour inside Easter Road with only one audible rendition of TBB toward half time, though it did peter out toward those banned words. I later found out that there had been some trouble at the Grassmarket before the game. Rangers really offered nothing today. Daly walked (and I literally mean walked) through the game. If he was carrying an injury then McCoist’s gamble to play him did not pay off. I read that Law was the best player on the pitch. In my view it was between him, McCulloch and Black for the biggest thug of the match award. The refereeing was absolutely awful with, yet again, the linesmen offering no assistance to the referee who made some seriously odd decisions. How he missed a handball by McCulloch I do not know and Joe Cardle booked for being hit by the ball from a quick free kick because he was not ten yards away. The one downside to the day was the insistence on presenting the trophy facing a stand which was fast emptying of The Rangers fans whilst we were all stuck with a side on view of our heroes. Anyway, none of that matters as we ran out winners and deservedly so after our second half performance. And I was dancing in the streets of Raith tonight when I got home. Don’t think I’ll make that 8am tee time tomorrow though, can you be drunk in charge of a driver 😀
Did Ally really have to gamble with half fit players against Raith. He has close to 50 players at the club. I haven’t watched many rangers games this season but my rangers buddies say the football on show stinks and it certainly showed today… Ally is going nowhere unless he receives a very fat cheque to do so. Maybe the RFFF could spring to get the hapless one out of the ibrox hotseat. Gonna be a lot of pressure on the managers in the run up to the Semi and sounds like he has some more injury woes.
“Despite the pain of the defeat the popular former Question of Sport skipper took some comfort from the fact that the defeat came in extra-time maintaining his side’s unbeaten record for the season over 90 minutes.”
So that’s alright …… then
Not in any sense indulging in schadenfreude, and never one to accept automatically the views of radio pundits, I now sit in total agreement with the opinions of the BBC Sportsound chappies, having watched the game on BBC Alba while listening on radio to McLean, Ferguson, Dodds, the apoplectic St Mirren fan Chick, Tom English and Richard Gordon.
Never has there been such unanimity of condemnation of the football performance of the new club. All bar none were at a loss to explain what in hell was happening.Chick was woe, woe, woe-ing at the thought of what Dundee Utd will do to such a shapeless, clueless apology for a football team.Ferguson couldn’t believe how Black, failing to deliver 40-yard passes tried instead to send 50 -yard passes! while the rest had serious difficulty in proving that they understood that football is a team game!
Raith clearly recognised that they really had nothing to fear, and came charging forward in the second half, leaving themselves a little bit exposed. But with every Raith man working his butt off, there was not enough skill and effort on the part of the new club to take advantage of their occasional quick breakaway.
Ferguson and Dodds could see clearly what was amiss. Ally could not.
Chick, wonderfully objective and neutral, of course, as a died in the wool St Mirren fan, was right to be afeared of the possibility of Dundee United taking that very poor team apart.
None of the panel ventured to suggest that perhaps the Manager might have some remote responsibility for this state of affairs, but I think that the 120 -day review conclusions will include the conclusion that Ally as manager is simply not hacking it and is in no way earning his keep. And the Board can ditch him now with the blessing of the support ( even if it costs them a bob or two) because his dog-whistling and ‘buy your season book tickets now’ function is a busted flush.
ecobhoy says:
April 6, 2014 at 11:27 pm
Well said.
My Twitter TL was invaded with Celtic chaps making pleas in mitigation for Mr Griffiths.
Sorry.
I can’t go there…
http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/leigh-griffiths/#more-4533
Resin _ lab _ dog
I think you have hit the nail pretty much on the head in terms of a club’s understanding of any particular situation with regard to observation of the rules and understanding of the impact of failing to apply them.
Your point on deference is also well made so for change to take place clubs have to realise, by which I mean make real, what has been taking place by those they left to do the governing.
If nothing else comes from Resolution 12 or the “duping” of LNS it is that clubs are becoming aware of what has been done in their name and can now ask the questions they are being forced into asking, because like it or lump it, whether it is a video of a player singing inappropriate songs or leaked e mails showing the SFA were either duped or complicit in the processing of the UEFA 2011 licence, the world has become a lot more transparent .
The trick of turning Nelson ‘ s eye on some revealed material and not others is not going to work, in fact it only makes the SFA’s position weaker and the clubs’ stronger.
It is evolution rather than revolution but it is happening .
theoldcourse says:
April 7, 2014 at 12:02 am
‘…The one downside to the day was the insistence on presenting the trophy facing a stand which was fast emptying of The Rangers fans whilst we were all stuck with a side on view of our heroes…’
———–
Come, come,theoldcourse! Your heroes did not stick to the script. They were not supposed to win, and certainly not expected to win! ( But , to be scrupulously fair in my own mind, I did not see any particular readiness on the part of referee or linesmen to favour either team)
The sheer lack of imagination, lack of sense of proper showmanship, theatricality, seize- the-moment talent of our Football authorities is quite appalling. The presentation could easily have been made at the Raith end, with a full picture of the Raith support enjoying it, as the rest of the ground emptied.
enough is enough says:
April 7, 2014 at 12:34 am
“Despite the pain of the defeat the popular former Question of Sport skipper took some comfort from the fact that the defeat came in extra-time maintaining his side’s unbeaten record for the season over 90 minutes.”
So that’s alright …… then
_______________________________________________________
I noticed, with a sardonic eyebrow arched northward, that the Record has, er, recorded the score as;
Rangers 0 – 0 Raith Rovers (Raith win aet) 🙂
Never saw that format in my life before, usually being along the lines;
Rangers 0 – 1 Raith Rovers (aet)
Until you actually see it written down, you would never believe that people could be so impervious to red paint between the shoulders.
Hmmm, on the tee in six and a half hours but my special occasion bottle of the Macallan still has a least one glass left in it. Also watching the lovely ladies of the LPGA. That Michelle Wie is a stunner and such a lovely swing
theoldcourse says:
April 7, 2014 at 1:32 am
‘..the Macallan still has a least one glass left in it. Also watching the lovely ladies of the LPGA…’
———–
Aw, hey, gie an auld man a break,will ye, while I reach for my ovaltine! FFS! 😀
Having been up to Scotland this weekend on family business…I had the misfortune to tune into what I believe was Radio Clyde on Saturday for 5 minutes in the car….to have my ears assaulted by the nasaleeee challenged excuse for a pundit Keevins…
How the F*** does that man get away with it??
Ps. The wifes been told never to touch the car radio again…when we are in Scotland!
Ecobhoy
I had the look at the video and my impression was that I was looking at typical loutish supporter behaviour in a crowd in a pub.
What some Celtic supporters have latched on to is that an element of that displayed behaviour is the opposite of our own cultural and traditional background and it most certainly is, but can we really expect someone not raised in or exposed to that background for any length of time to get “it”?
By ” it” I mean what it means to belong to Celtic with all the expectations that accompany the sense of belonging.
Expectations of charity to others, compassion to others tolerance of others?
It seems that as things stand Griffith’s does not get “it” but how could he if he has never been exposed to the very characteristics that he appears to lack?
Of course he might never get it, but I believe there is a greater chance that he will if Celtic act with what we think identifies us as different than if he is abandoned.
I do not mean cuddly charity, I mean tough charity but charity nevertheless.
It surprises me that with the promise that of faith, hope and charity and that only charity is guaranteed not to fail, that for those who subscribe to that belief, it is not the default route to finding out what it really is, what it requires to exist.
Celtic aspire to be charitable in spirit, are we annoyed at Griffith’s for failing to reflect that notion of ourselves or for testing it?
How Celtic handle this will tell us how far the development of the Celtic ethos or spirit has come and how far it has to go. This has nothing to do with Griffiths the footballer playing for Celtic and all to do with his development as a human being.
enough is enough says:
April 7, 2014 at 12:34 am
‘..maintaining his side’s unbeaten record for the season over 90 minutes.”
——-
Honest to God, I worry about that man’s sanity! Kangaroo Rovers ( a team which I love dearly) have been unbeaten in every game in their history … by any team that has not scored more goals than they.
Added to managerial incompetence, utter fatuity of pronouncement must be added to Ally’s demerits.He really must sleekit off. In the interests of the new club.
TSFM
I think Ally should be indulged here. So far a full side Celtic team has gone through the league programme unbeaten. 😉
We could create a whole series of new records. Celtic have more goal scorers in red boots than any other Scottish club. In fact make the boots tartan and Celtic could claim a world record.
or have I taken that too far? 😀
And a sudden thought: has my Lord Wobbly posted in recent times?
Didn’t want Celtic to sign Griffiths due to his previous behaviour.
This included being charged charged with sending an allegedly racist tweet that stated that @Zak_Iqbal should “f*** off back to your own country ya clown”.
Griffiths was also fined £100 for breach of the peace that occurred in a Tesco Store that involved him struggling with members of staff.
He has also been charged with assault in relation to a separate incident. This is a matter of public record.
On the pitch at Hibs he managed to get himself censured by the SFA three times in the one month for making rude gestures to St Johnstone and Rangers fans, as well as towards his own club’s supporters during a match against Cowdenbeath.
Given this sort of history, is anyone on this site genuinely surprised by Griffiths’ behaviour in recent weeks? Griffiths had a chaotic upbringing and is a victim of his circumstance.
I actually feel sympathy for Griffiths.
His behaviour is appalling but exactly what I would expect from someone brought up within the confines of the white underclass in modern Britain
I would like to add that maybe Griffiths got his “why don’t you go home” “racist” views from listening to the British government which last year launched a campaign using ‘go home’ adverts on vans to urge illegal immigrants to leave Britain voluntarily.
Maybe, a poorly-educated Griffiths thought telling migrants to “go home” is government policy?
I have to say I wouldn’t blame him if he did.
theoldcourse says:
April 7, 2014 at 12:02 am
======================
Re your post about some Refereeing decisions yesterday. The worst for me was Lee McCulloch being given a free kick for a blatant dive just outside the box right after Raith had taken the lead. The kick came to nothing but an act of outright cheating could have denied Raith their day of glory. Simulation is a major part of McCulloch’s game and of course in that aspect he is far from alone in football. Where he does benefit though is from the deference shown to him because he is captain of Rangers, which almost gives him a free run in the knowledge he won’t be criticised. Considering how this guy plays the game, he is certainly not befitting of such respect, but sadly it comes as a given with the role he is in. Unfortunately, the view that Rangers people are a level above others is one that continues to linger among the Scottish media like a bad smell.
Made the tee. First drive in the burn and i’m. 7 over after four holes. My playing partner knows he’s going home with todays winnings
upthehoops says:
April 7, 2014 at 7:03 am
theoldcourse says:
April 7, 2014 at 12:02 am
======================
Re your post about some Refereeing decisions yesterday. The worst for me was Lee McCulloch being given a free kick for a blatant dive just outside the box right after Raith had taken the lead. The kick came to nothing but an act of outright cheating could have denied Raith their day of glory. Simulation is a major part of McCulloch’s game and of course in that aspect he is far from alone in football. Where he does benefit though is from the deference shown to him because he is captain of Rangers, which almost gives him a free run in the knowledge he won’t be criticised. Considering how this guy plays the game, he is certainly not befitting of such respect, but sadly it comes as a given with the role he is in. Unfortunately, the view that Rangers people are a level above others is one that continues to linger among the Scottish media like a bad smell.
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Regarding refereeing
1 There is not a professional football player currently playing in Scotland who has not intentionally conned a ref. Yes it is outright cheating. Yes it is wrong – but are you seriously saying not one Raith Rovers player yesterday conned a decision yesterday?
2 Did you see the penalty Rangers got against Motherwell yesterday when McManus handled the ball with his head? Honest mistake my bahookey. Oh no hang on a minute – it wasn’t Rangers that got the penalty – it was St Mirren. It must just have been a mistake – not an “honest mistake”.
Moving on.
On Griffiths not getting “it.” No I don’t think he does but as an east coaster I’ll forgive him for that. But I also don’t think he has the common sense to realise that the high wages paid by Celtic come in return for a sense of responsibility. And for that, no offence to the guy who clearly knows no better, he’d be better “offed” I feel.
Oldcourse. point 1. Stop using your phone on the course! Point 2. Have you tried asking your opponent who he supports? 4 down in 7 requires all last ditch ploys available.
Daily Record. I like the overall coverage of the final. Game summed up as “0-0 (RR after ET), Griffiths is a rascist and Lennon for Norwich.”
Shame its a mild spring, what with all those Monday colour supplements now available for the burner!
Campbellsmoney
Are you taking into account the referee swap and it was Mr Brines who made the mistake? 🙂
He does make some crackers.
Auldheid says:
April 7, 2014 at 9:14 am
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Campbellsmoney
Are you taking into account the referee swap and it was Mr Brines who made the mistake?
He does make some crackers.
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They all do.
😛
I assume the point of this was to make sure that Hearts got relegated to ensure that when TRFC get into the Championship next year they will get more money out of playing a big side like Hearts and that the whole thing was manipulated to assist TRFC financially. I cannot see any other reason for the mistake.