Podcast Episode 3 – David Low

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Podcast Episode 3 – David Low

davidLowDavid Low

represents a highly significant component of the history of Celtic FC and consequently a highly significant component of how Scottish Football has panned out in the last 20 years.

As Fergus McCann’s Aide-de-Camp, Low was instrumental in helping him formulate and implement the plans which ultimately allowed control of the club to be wrested from the Kelly and White families. Low also helped McCann to rebuild and regenerate Celtic as a modern football club.

His views are unsurprisingly Celtic-centred, and this interview reveals his ambition for the club to ultimately leave Scottish Football behind. That may or may not be at odds with many of our readers, but the stark analysis of the realities facing football in this country may resonate.

Podcast LogoHe provides a window on the pragmatism of the likes of McCann, Celtic and many other clubs in respect of the demise of Rangers. He pours scorn on Dave King’s vision of a cash-rich Rangers future, and provides little comfort for those who seek succour for our failing national sport, believing that Scotland will find it impossible to emerge from the football backwater in an increasingly global industry.

Agree or not with Low’s prognosis, it is difficult to deny his compelling analysis of our place in the football world.

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Trisidium administrator

Trisidium is a Dunblane businessman with a keen interest in Scottish Football. He is a Celtic fan, although the demands of modern-day parenting have seen him less at games and more as a taxi service for his kids.

3,066 Comments so far

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James DolemanPosted on8:40 pm - Apr 14, 2014


Rangers board to publish results of business review on 25 April, a week on Friday

http://www.rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/item/6763-business-review-update

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Barcabhoy

BarcabhoyPosted on8:44 pm - Apr 14, 2014


I’m sure this has been covered before, however i must have missed the compelling logic behind The Union of Fans latest brainwave.

The season tickets are an asset of TRFC from the point they are issued until the point someone buys one.

An integral part of buying anything , is paying for it. Now i know David Murray and Craig Whytes Rangers weren’t too keen on that , however normally payment has to be made for ownership to be assumed.

So , this trust is inserting itself , not by board invitation, just arbitrarily into the process. It wants to extract a fee, in the form of a security over assets on the RIFC balance sheet valued at £60 million. In return , it appears that 6,000 fans are considering paying their money to a trust with 2 guys not resident in the UK as trustees. The value of these season books is around £2 million.

Just let that hang there for a second , they want security worth 30 times the value of the funds in trust ………30 times

Then you have the practical aspect. Rangers season ticket renewal software will not recognise a renewal until they have payment in one of the forms acceptable to Rangers. In simple terms the season ticket holder , if he doesn’t renew on the standard basis used by all clubs, will no longer be a season book holder. Whatever funds he has placed in the hands of a South African resident and a resident of the state of California will not be to renew the ticket they have now, because no such transaction will exist.

Then we have the need to have the trust enter into individual arrangements with each beneficiary of the trust. 6,000 pay in, and you will need 6,000 individual legal agreements to ensure that the season book holder putting his cash in trust gets what he expects.

So Fan 1 who sits in section X of the Broomloan next to his son , both in row z , wants to ensure that he gets the seat he has sat in for 30 years. He doesn’t want to end up at another part of the ground. Multiply that challenge by 6,000 or 30,000 and you have an unworkable logistical nightmare on your hands .

And somebody is going to have to pay the cost of the legals and the administrative efforts to fulfil each beneficiaries entitlements from the trust. And its not going to be Rangers and neither should it be.

Then you have the shareholders position. They ponied up in excess of £30 million, and they are expected to sit idly by and watch the assets that allow balance sheet solvency to be securitised by the likes Graham, Dingwall and the Sons of Struth for 3% of their value and for 10% of the funds invested by shareholders.

And at the same time Aim , the Nomad and Deloittes are supposed not to take any action on any of this if the board were crazy enough to go along with this stunt.

Yes, it all sounds like a good well thought out plan. Laxey will just roll over , outsmarted by a collection of over emotional mouthpieces totally out of their depth.

It is a wise man who knows where courage ends and stupidity begins.

Rangers fans are in need of some wise men, because the ones shouting the loudest just now are stupid beyond description

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GoosyGoosyPosted on8:44 pm - Apr 14, 2014


Galling Fiver
You have mail

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ChristyboyPosted on8:45 pm - Apr 14, 2014


Cluster One, or they’ve got a reply at last from the Dallas Cowboys !!!

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the taxman cometh

the taxman comethPosted on8:46 pm - Apr 14, 2014


James Doleman says:
April 14, 2014 at 8:40 pm

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Rangers board to publish results of business review on 25 April, a week on Friday

http://www.rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/item/6763-business-review-update

======

Na just an update

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upthehoopsPosted on8:49 pm - Apr 14, 2014


Barcabhoy says:
April 14, 2014 at 8:44 pm

Yes, it all sounds like a good well thought out plan. Laxey will just roll over , outsmarted by a collection of over emotional mouthpieces totally out of their depth.
==================================
Those three lines sum it up perfectly.

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ChristyboyPosted on8:52 pm - Apr 14, 2014


Have a nice admin y’all……..Will you still be arriving for River-rapids 2 this year ?

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Campbellsmoney

CampbellsmoneyPosted on8:56 pm - Apr 14, 2014


For a trust arrangement you need trusters, trustees and beneficiaries.

As I would understand it, the trusters here would be the fans. The trustees would be a Mr King and a Mr Gough (are either resident within Scotland?) And the beneficiaries would be who exactly?

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MartinPosted on9:06 pm - Apr 14, 2014


John Clark,

“He’s actually offering them nothing, full stop!”

No argument from me on that point. I can’t bring any evidence to support your wider view on his (Dave King) intentions to have control of “critical property assets” there are others who would claim first dibs 🙂

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hamemadesoupPosted on9:08 pm - Apr 14, 2014


Christyboy says:
April 14, 2014 at 8:45 pm
7 0 Rate This

Cluster One, or they’ve got a reply at last from the Dallas Cowboys !!!
—————————————
Aye , them Dallas boys are in awe of these cowboys 😉

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John ClarkPosted on9:22 pm - Apr 14, 2014


easyJambo says:
April 14, 2014 at 8:30 pm
Phil’s tweet may just be this
“http://www.rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/item/6763-business-review-update”
———
On a different tack, aj, in the link RIFC say
‘… alliances with blue chip companies such as 32Red ‘
Now, with no disrespect intended to those who make money out of people who lose money, not even the most financially illiterate could reasonably describe an AIM company, only a few years old and with modest market capitalisation, as being a ‘blue chip’ company!

Just another example of irritating and misleading falsehood in something emanating from RIFC plc , a company which, lacking any kind of business respectability itself, has to try to make itself look important by bumming up the minor companies that sponsor it.
At least 32RED have the good sense not themselves to claim to be a ‘blue chip’ company (although they obviously must have okayed what appeared in the new club’s statement.

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redlichtiePosted on9:25 pm - Apr 14, 2014


@Pmacgiollabhain: I am hearing that today Super Ally’s representatives approached Sevco for a “Do Walking Away” deal.
However,they left empty handed…
————————————————————————————————–
Funds must be getting really low to prompt Super Ally to try to cut and run whilst he can still get a payout.

Are there now grounds for an arrestment of RIFC/TRFC monies on behalf of Mr Ahmad?

Scottish football needs a return to the scene by old friend CW to make life even more interesting! 😈

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wottpiPosted on9:35 pm - Apr 14, 2014


John Clark says:
April 14, 2014 at 9:22 pm

Everyone knows that when at the roulette table you can’t just have “blue chips”. Otherwise how do you keep track on who is throwing their money doon the pan. 😛

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torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958)Posted on9:45 pm - Apr 14, 2014


More from Phil.

http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/has-sevco-sent-legal-letters-to-dave-king-and-richard-gough/#more-4548

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upthehoopsPosted on9:56 pm - Apr 14, 2014


John Clark says:
April 14, 2014 at 9:22 pm
======================
As far as I have seen there has never been a mention of what their 32Red deal is worth, just like there was never a mention of what the Blackthorn deal was worth. Given they never miss a chance to bump their gums about anything, it would suggest neither of these deals are actually of a level they want people to believe.

Of course, what they really want is a £10M a season shirt sponsorship deal with the Bank of Scotland that lasts two decades. That could never happen though…

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Campbellsmoney

CampbellsmoneyPosted on10:03 pm - Apr 14, 2014


Further on trusts. A trust needs to have trust property (in this case that would be the fans money). And the trust has to have a purpose. I assume here the purpose would be the purchase of season tickets. As Barcabhoy has ably pointed out this is a logistical nightmare.

But imagine 10,000 fans do put in 350GBP each into this “trust”. That is 3.5mGBP. Then what? The trustees refuse to hand over any money to buy season tickets unless they are given security over Ibrox and the training ground. (Security for what anyway? There isn’t a debt to secure – unless its the performance of TRFC of its obligations under the season tickets.)

The board refuse to entertain such a ludicrous idea. TRFC don’t get the 3.5m. The trustees don’t get the security. The fans don’t get their tickets. Stupid, stupid stupid.

Even if they all agree to this, what happens when the season is over? Security redeemed? Same again next year?

Preposterous.

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wottpiPosted on10:06 pm - Apr 14, 2014


Can’t see what legal action can be taken against King or indeed Gough.
They are not employees of the company and from what I can see they have not said anything that would be worth taking to court for being libelous.

All they are doing is encouraging customers to do something different with their cash.

No different from me encouraging folk on here not to shop as Tesco until they stock a better class of jammy dodger and asking them to consider passing over their money to me in trust so I have some ‘credibility’ in terms of speaking for the masses that allows me to get press coverage demanding that the quality of biscuit can be guaranteed.

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easyJamboPosted on10:08 pm - Apr 14, 2014


upthehoops says: April 14, 2014 at 9:56 pm

As far as I have seen there has never been a mention of what their 32Red deal is worth, just like there was never a mention of what the Blackthorn deal was worth. Given they never miss a chance to bump their gums about anything, it would suggest neither of these deals are actually of a level they want people to believe.
=====================================
I’ve seen two sources with substantially different numbers.

£1.5M a season
http://www.insideworldfootball.com/world-football/europe/14467-rangers-win-at-casino-but-boardroom-money-rows-rumble-on
The 32Red shirt sponsorship money cash cannot come soon enough for Rangers. Although no figure has been released for the deal it is estimated to be worth at least £1.5 million per season. 32Red have had shirt sponsorships with English Premier league clubs Aston Villa and Swansea City in recent seasons.

The other was for £350K a season which was mentioned in the share chat pages on the LSE site
http://www.lse.co.uk/ShareChat.asp?page=5&ShareTicker=RFC

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upthehoopsPosted on10:24 pm - Apr 14, 2014


EasyJambo@ 10:08PM

If the deal is really for £1.5m a season they would be singing it from the rooftops IMO.

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Angus1983Posted on10:31 pm - Apr 14, 2014


32Red’s deal with Aston Villa in 2006 was for basic 6-figure sum, which had the potential to add an extra zero with “marketing affiliate” arrangements.

Expect to see the official Rangers website encouraging online gambling in a big way next season, should a Rangers still be in existence.

(I have an aversion to alcohol, money-lending and gambling companies being plastered onto replica kits which my children may want to wear. Fortunately, they don’t want to wear those ones. 🙂 )

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FIFAPosted on10:49 pm - Apr 14, 2014


Angus1983
I suppose the obvious candidate to press release the shirt would be a certain Mr Black,fitting really,someone putting their shirt on black,oh my sides.

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Cluster One

Cluster OnePosted on10:50 pm - Apr 14, 2014


Anyone know why the gers fans had an RAF card display at a scottish cup semi final?
If that is what it was.

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essexbeancounterPosted on11:11 pm - Apr 14, 2014


John Clark says:

Martin says:
April 14, 2014 at 7:41 pm
‘…There is nothing that Dave King is offering Rangers fans that is beyond their capacity to do for themselves.’
———–
He’s actually offering them nothing, full stop!
Who could not but pity the punters who have to make such choices, and agree with those who walk away , ST money still in their walllets, with cries of ” A plague o’ both your houses!”( which were , as essexb will readily confirm 😀 Mercutio’s last words in R&J)
======================================================================
JC(e)….forever the scallywag…I never got past page 3 (sic!).

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essexbeancounterPosted on11:18 pm - Apr 14, 2014


Barcabhoy says:

April 14, 2014 at 8:44 pm
So , this trust is inserting itself , not by board invitation, just arbitrarily into the process. It wants to extract a fee, in the form of a security over assets on the RIFC balance sheet valued at £60 million.
=======================================================================
Barca…some hard hitting points as to the reality of such a hare-brained scheme…but please remind me who valued these assets at £60 million and which international firm of accountants accepted said valuation, apparently without comment or qualification?

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Resin_lab_dogPosted on11:41 pm - Apr 14, 2014


John Clark says:

… with cries of ” A plague o’ both your houses!”( which were , as essexb will readily confirm 😀 Mercutio’s last words in R&J)
======================================================================
(pedantry alert)
last words are actually: “…for they have made worms meat of me!… I have it, and soundly too. Your houses!”

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John ClarkPosted on11:46 pm - Apr 14, 2014


Looks as if RIFC not only does not like their ‘enemy’ (the SFA): they don’t have much time for their enemy’s sponsor!
” 32Red V William Hill Gaming [2012] EWCA Civ 19
A dispute about trade marks in online gaming. The claimant’s mark 32RED held to be valid and infringed by 32Vegas at first instance and on appeal. Reported at [2011] ETMR 21 and [2011] RPC 26 (HC), [2012] ETMR 14 (CA)
Following the trial and appeal the inquiry as to damages has now taken place. It was heard by Newey J at the end of February 2013. He awarded damages of £150,000 to 32 Red [2013] EWHC 815 (Ch)”

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John ClarkPosted on11:50 pm - Apr 14, 2014


Resin_lab_dog says:
April 14, 2014 at 11:41 pm
‘..(pedantry alert)
last words are actually: “…for they have made worms meat of me!… I have it, and soundly too. Your houses!”
————–
” How absolute the knave is.. ” 🙄 (and quite correct,of course. But essexb would never have known! 😀

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John ClarkPosted on12:06 am - Apr 15, 2014


wottpi says:
April 14, 2014 at 10:06 pm
“Can’t see what legal action can be taken against King or indeed Gough…’
——————–
There appears to be ‘ conversion’, defined as
” an act or series of acts of wilful interference, without lawful justification, with any chattel in a manner inconsistent with another’s right, whereby that other person is deprived of the use and possession of that chattel.[1]”
M’lud, it appears to me that maybe the adopted sons of the Republic of South Africa may have bitten off a little more wildebeeste than they can chew.
It will make a great court case, although I imagine that the gentlemen concerned will eat a little bit of humble pie, apologise insincerely, and get out while the getting is good. I do hope not, for I like men of integrity to fight for their honour!

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Resin_lab_dogPosted on12:23 am - Apr 15, 2014


Resin_lab_dog says:
April 14, 2014 at 11:41 pm
‘..(pedantry alert)
last words are actually: “…for they have made worms meat of me!… I have it, and soundly too. Your houses!”
————–
” How absolute the knave is.. ” 🙄 (and quite correct,of course. But essexb would never have known! 😀
___________________________________________
…and if its opposing king’s your after:

‘Within the infant rind of this weak flower
Poison hath residence and medicine power:
For this, being smelt, with that part cheers each part;
Being tasted, stays all senses with the heart.

Two such opposéd kings encamp them still
In man as well as herbs-grace and rude will;
And where the worser is predominant,
Full soon the canker death eats up the plant.’

A warning and prediction for TRFC from Friar Lawrence there, I think.

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upthehoopsPosted on7:20 am - Apr 15, 2014


Very pertinent comment from Brogan Rogan Trevino & Hogan, stolen from Celtic Quick News

“Who goes into John Lewis or wherever and agrees to buy a bedroom suite but insists that between payment and delivery they receive a security over the title deeds to the store?”

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fara1968Posted on7:31 am - Apr 15, 2014


upthehoops says:
April 15, 2014 at 7:20 am
2 0 Rate This

Very pertinent comment from Brogan Rogan Trevino & Hogan, stolen from Celtic Quick News

“Who goes into John Lewis or wherever and agrees to buy a bedroom suite but insists that between payment and delivery they receive a security over the title deeds to the store?”
///////////////////////////////////////////////
Is the answer Dave King?

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briggsbhoyPosted on7:38 am - Apr 15, 2014


“Who goes into John Lewis……….

The type of person who thought David Murray was a true knight, Whyte was a billionaire , Chico Green was a fine oustanding character and that Dave King is the new messiah. These are The People…….numpties the lot of them

WATP………We Are The Plonkers

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fara1968Posted on7:52 am - Apr 15, 2014


I’m pretty shocked at McCoists answer to the latest showing of pitchfork mentality from the Ibrox faithful on Steve Simonsen and his young son.
McCoist, “makes me feel like he shouldn’t be on it on the first place”.
I’m left for words.

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No1 BobPosted on8:44 am - Apr 15, 2014


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-city/10766475/Manchester-City-to-be-made-to-pay-a-high-price-for-spending-spree-under-Uefa-Financial-Fair-Play-rules.html

“Manchester City were facing a huge Financial Fair Play sanction on Monday night as Uefa prepared to rule that the spending spree that transformed them into a superpower of the game breached its much-vaunted cost-control regulations.”

And who was the finance guru at Man City during this time?

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/manchester-city-legend-mike-summerbee-2816023

“But City legend Mike Summerbee will never forget the role Graham Wallace played in his club’s dramatic 2012 Premier League triumph.” “He did a great job with the finances here when we won the title in 2012″.

Yes, it is indeed Graham ‘120 day review’ Wallace.

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Danish PastryPosted on9:24 am - Apr 15, 2014


No1 Bob says:
April 15, 2014 at 8:44 am
3 0 Rate This

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-city/10766475/Manchester-City-to-be-made-to-pay-a-high-price-for-spending-spree-under-Uefa-Financial-Fair-Play-rules.html

“Manchester City were facing a huge Financial Fair Play sanction on Monday night as Uefa prepared to rule that the spending spree that transformed them into a superpower of the game breached its much-vaunted cost-control regulations.”

And who was the finance guru at Man City during this time?

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/manchester-city-legend-mike-summerbee-2816023

“But City legend Mike Summerbee will never forget the role Graham Wallace played in his club’s dramatic 2012 Premier League triumph.” “He did a great job with the finances here when we won the title in 2012″.

Yes, it is indeed Graham ’120 day review’ Wallace.
———-

Finally!

To be honest, if it ends up in a fine it will be a meaningless punishment. Transfer ban, yes, as long as it’s not of the deferred-trialist-Scottish variety.

If they are not banned from the CL though, it is pretty empty, especially if the fine is cancelled out by the money made from arriving in the competition proper.

But good news, very good news. Step in the right direction.

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jockybhoyPosted on9:40 am - Apr 15, 2014


This latest phase is just quickening the end of the longest suicide in sport. So many chances to save themselves, so many willing to help them, and yet time and again, they choose the path that will ultimately lead to their destruction.

Army advertising? Should have been The Samaritans… 🙄

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JimBhoyPosted on10:29 am - Apr 15, 2014


Strengthening team and squad… Got to love Ally’s optimism or maybe there is a better word that could be used there..He said (after the UTD game) he has a team that can compete in the top division so why would that team not win or be promoted from the championship..

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11788/9266412

I get the impression Ally is siting on his hands rocking back and forward just itching to back kingy and his old team mates, he hasn’t played that side of the fence for a while (in his own vague phraseology)

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Allyjambo

AllyjamboPosted on11:46 am - Apr 15, 2014


This possible legal action against King and Gough, could it have the effect of ending King’s involvement with TRFC? TRFC/RIFC agree not to pursue if King leaves for good? Could it all have been part of the plan from the beginning? Suddenly there’s only one show in town, and it’s going down the tubes if the fans don’t buy season tickets in even larger numbers! Totally different ‘carrot’ than in previous years, but there can be no doubt some sort of carrot is required!

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Carfins FinestPosted on11:55 am - Apr 15, 2014


Allyjambo says:

April 15, 2014 at 11:46 am

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This possible legal action against King and Gough, could it have the effect of ending King’s involvement with TRFC? TRFC/RIFC agree not to pursue if King leaves for good? Could it all have been part of the plan from the beginning? Suddenly there’s only one show in town, and it’s going down the tubes if the fans don’t buy season tickets in even larger numbers! Totally different ‘carrot’ than in previous years, but there can be no doubt some sort of carrot is required!
===============
AJ. Dont think King is going anywhere anytime soon. He,Whyte, and Green will be last men standing.IMHO.

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scottc

scottcPosted on11:56 am - Apr 15, 2014


I see the RIFC board have told the fans they will give them an update on hte 120 day plan on 25th of April, which is, of course, a Friday. That will give the fans the weekend to think about things because, as far as I can recall, the first load of money will be leaving their accounts first thing on the following Monday. I wonder what are the chances of managing to cancel their DDs in time?

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JimBhoyPosted on11:59 am - Apr 15, 2014


As the 120-oddish day review will have very little specific information what influence will it have before or after SB renewal day. I think most bears would be prudent not to automatically review to see what the majority of bears are doing and as expected the 120 day review will say we are making good progress on cutbacks/cost cutting but to continue on next season we need the full support of ALL the fans otherwise there is a distinct possibility we will not make all our commitments unless another alternative revenue stream is found to cover the shortfall from fans withholding their SB money. Furthermore it would not be legally possible to release the company assets owned by the shareholders to the fans with monies in trust… DK over to you.

— Obviously worded in such a way that does not alert the SFA to ask specific questions about rangers finances and seeing out a full season, ‘cos they would be all over that like a rash. 😆

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JimBhoyPosted on12:07 pm - Apr 15, 2014


@SCOTTC Do they not have to cancel by letter? Or has that odd rule been changed now… If only 10k autocommit to the SB plan and the trust holds the other amount as they will not get near the assets, that would not be enough to see them thru to Xmas..

The 120 day review for what we will see of it, could have been an 120 mins review…

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Allyjambo

AllyjamboPosted on12:21 pm - Apr 15, 2014


Carfins Finest says:
April 15, 2014 at 11:55 am

Carfin,
Not suggesting for one moment that there’s a great deal of likelihood that the scenario I put up is about to be seen, it’s just one that might explain King’s ludicrous plan. His involvement over the past year has, possibly, prevented some other ‘Blue Knight’ getting involved as they all believed in King’s intention to take charge of the club. Now the scenario has been created where King has ‘gone too far’ in his love for the club and can step aside, a chastened, but devoted fan. There is now no alternative to RIFC, and they can’t continue without a very high take up of season tickets.

Contrived or not, if King can be seen off within the next couple of weeks, the rebound effect might well lead to another record take up of season tickets for a team in the second tier of any league, anywhere in the world 🙄

It could be a bit like a lifeboat, full to the gunnels of survivors (Titanic?) who don’t fancy rowing for the ship’s officer in charge. They are quite happy to hang around waiting for the promised rescue ship. Suddenly they discover that the expected help has sailed off in the direction of South Africa. The lifeboat will sink soon, do they all start rowing, or do they continue to wait for a saviour? I’d suggest they’d all find a great willingness to row.

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scottc

scottcPosted on12:27 pm - Apr 15, 2014


@SCOTTC Do they not have to cancel by letter? Or has that odd rule been changed now… If only 10k autocommit to the SB plan and the trust holds the other amount as they will not get near the assets, that would not be enough to see them thru to Xmas..

The 120 day review for what we will see of it, could have been an 120 mins review…

I don’t think so. I can certainly cancel mine online

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pau1mart1nPosted on12:38 pm - Apr 15, 2014


you had to uncheck the box that said “I don’t not want my ST then, now, forever”

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Para Handy

Para HandyPosted on12:59 pm - Apr 15, 2014


I didn’t read the accounts, however, I noted this from the latest BBC posting,

“However, according to the notes in last month’s interim accounts, without an increase in season-ticket sales, Rangers could not be certain about their going concern status for the next 12 months.”

If correct, then they have to sell more STs (or same at a higher price) so presumably the 120 day review cannot be completed until such time as they know how many are sold, however, without publishing the review, it looks like with the withholding they won’t know.

Kurt Vonnegut is getting a work out here today.

Presumably, if they don’t get the necessary increase then the SFA/SPFL should be asking them for guarantees on finishing next season?

Aye right…

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JimBhoyPosted on1:08 pm - Apr 15, 2014


Let’s say DK gets 10k to put their cash in the trust and when the inevitable claims by the board suggesting that that revenue will be needed unless another revenue stream is found, could DK work that in such a way that it gets him a new blazer and tie..?

It would also be funny if DK doesn’t release the funds to the club and there are a lot of angry ‘trust’ bears not getting to games.

Is there an admin cost on the trust fund (I would assume so), costing more for an SB. What happens if the stand off goes on eventually meaning those who paid into the trust need to get their money back, I would assume this would also incur a cost and could be prone to error. Recipe for disaster.

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essexbeancounterPosted on2:44 pm - Apr 15, 2014


John Clark says:
Resin_lab_dog says:
April 14, 2014 at 11:41 pm
‘..(pedantry alert)
last words are actually: “…for they have made worms meat of me!… I have it, and soundly too. Your houses!”
————–
” How absolute the knave is.. ” 🙄 (and quite correct,of course. But essexb would never have known! 😀
======================================================================
Resin_lab_dog……”…et tu Brute?…(in the true sense of the Latin question from the dying Caesar)…not the Glaswegian vernacular equivalent of “etcha brute!)
JC(e)…if ever we were to meet, I would slay this Shakingspear character in front of you, once and for all!!!

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FIFAPosted on2:48 pm - Apr 15, 2014


Calling the season book standoff a trust is got to be comedy gold at its best commuting from this lot

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James ForrestPosted on3:04 pm - Apr 15, 2014


http://www.onfieldsofgreen.com/bursting-the-bubble/

The crisis that engulfs Sevco Rangers and the one that killed the previous version stem from the same lack of understanding as to how reality works.

This only ends one way. With another funeral.

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Madbhoy24941Posted on3:11 pm - Apr 15, 2014


FIFA says:

April 15, 2014 at 2:48 pm

Calling the season book standoff a trust is got to be comedy gold at its best commuting from this lot
—————————————————————-

To be fair, they have to try something new to see if it works.

E.B.T. Experimental Book Trust?

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wottpiPosted on3:32 pm - Apr 15, 2014


Will be interesting to see what the crowd is tonight at Ibrox and the following games..
Only one mid weeker v Ayr and a final Saturday at home on the 26th v Stranraer, the day after the review results get published.
That could be interesting!

Frankly the whole thing has become farcical.
There really is only one realistic option if the club is to survive and that is austerity followed by sustainability.
While it really is down to the shareholders, CEO Wallace may actually be the best shot the fans have of keeping their club alive.
He is being tasked by the shareholders to operate a well run ship.
Like Whyte before them, their is no emotional tie to ‘the club’ from the shareholders and members of the board.
They will do what is best for the business, not what is best for the football club.

King will only ever get his hands on the club for his fantasy owner/manager trip if he pays the price Laxey et al want and at the time of their choosing.
IMHO too much hassle from King and the big blue gates will be getting the chains and padlocks treatment.

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JLeeHookerPosted on3:54 pm - Apr 15, 2014


It would be really, really funny if 10K put their ST money into the trust and the season tickets sold out anyway leaving said 10K with nothing to bargain with (and nowhere to sit) 😈 😈 😈

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StevieBC

StevieBCPosted on4:24 pm - Apr 15, 2014


Whilst we are trying to guess the next move down Govan way…
A hypothetical question.

Is there currently – potentially – a very narrow window of opportunity for the TRFC fans ?
The Board and King are busy squabbling in public, there is significant uncertainty about the future of TRFC as a going concern and there is confusion about season ticket renewal.

If the main TRFC fans groups could somehow unite, [I know, hypothetically], could they approach the SFA to appeal for assistance to start a new club ? This would probably benefit from having a ‘legned’ type figurehead such as Sir Walter to smooth the way with his SFA connections.

Temporary housing at Hampden and eventual move to Ibrox when a ‘reasonable’ rent has been thrashed out with the spivs ?

It would also be great fun to watch as the spivs realised they had been outflanked by the bears…

I know, 😉

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JimBhoyPosted on4:58 pm - Apr 15, 2014


@JAMES FORREST – Brilliant article mate..

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toadintheholePosted on4:58 pm - Apr 15, 2014


StevieBC says:
April 15, 2014 at 4:24 pm
—————————————————–

Back in the day, when liquidation was in its infancy, I suggested something similar. I thought that there was an opportunity then for Ally and Walter to make a stand and say to the spivs – “no thank you. You can have Ibrox, Murray Park, the whole shebang. Those are worthless without the fans, and we have the fans.”

If they’d played it right, they could have formed a new Rangers playing out of Firhill, or St Mirren Park, or anywhere really, and the fans would have gone with them. Ibrox would have eventually come back to them anyway – for a price. They chose not to do that – I think the “Big House Must Stay Open” mentality took hold.

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JimBhoyPosted on5:37 pm - Apr 15, 2014


The Rangers time machine:
If the collective Rangers fans could make two journeys back in time to make one change from three separate times. Would they:
1. Go back and stop A) Murray taking over, B) Whyte taking over, C) Green taking over???? I would suggest they would choose B.

2. Go back and stop A) Souness becoming manager, B) Le Guen becoming manager, C) Ally becoming manager??? I would suggest they would choose B again (moonbeams)…

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2006/dec/02/newsstory.sport1
Sacked a month later for attempting to work with the players he brought into the squad and NOT spend….. Ally take note.!

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incredibleadamspark

incredibleadamsparkPosted on5:42 pm - Apr 15, 2014


“Some fans may disagree but it will be good for the whole of Scottish football.”

Who would make such a statement regarding Rangers promotion to the Premiership? Regan or Doncaster, perhaps? Maybe Chic Young or Ally McCoist? Sounds like the sort of thing they might say. It was actually Anthony Stokes.

It’s disappointing but I don’t find it surprising. He is just the latest in a long line of former Celtic players, current Celtic players, Celtic officials and people associated with the club who long for their arrival in the SPFL because they continue to view things through an auld firm prism.

In my view, and it seems to be shared by the vast majority on here, Scottish football is doing just fine at the moment. What is quite clear now is the belief, and not just from the Rangers-minded, that a Celtic/Rangers rivalry is a priority. Undoubtedly Stokes was asked the question to stir things up but he has answered honestly. The auld firm continue to view themselves as bigger and better than the rest of Scottish football. Mr Stokes, I disagree.

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Angus1983Posted on6:24 pm - Apr 15, 2014


Cluster One says:
April 14, 2014 at 10:50 pm

Anyone know why the gers fans had an RAF card display at a scottish cup semi final?
——

Might it have been to do with the 100th anniversary of the formation of The RFC?

The Royal Flying Corps, that is. 😉

FIFA says:
April 14, 2014 at 10:49 pm
…someone putting their shirt on black …
——
It’s the way you tell ’em. 😛

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Madbhoy24941Posted on6:40 pm - Apr 15, 2014


incredibleadamspark says:

April 15, 2014 at 5:42 pm

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“Some fans may disagree but it will be good for the whole of Scottish football.”

Who would make such a statement regarding Rangers promotion to the Premiership? Regan or Doncaster, perhaps? Maybe Chic Young or Ally McCoist? Sounds like the sort of thing they might say. It was actually Anthony Stokes.

—————————————

It also annoys many Celtic fans and the Club are aware of that, unfortunately they cannot see (maybe blinkered, maybe fear of lowering standards) an alternative at this point.

The biggest problem is that they miss having a genuine adversary, even when Aberdeen and Dundee United were spanking Celtic in the 80’s, the fans still never viewed them as an adversary, merely very good and mostly, better competition.

Apart from a one-off game, we realistically cannot even call them that these days.

Therefore, when a player says he is missing “the old firm” games or looking forward to Rangers being part of the league, I would assume he means the buzz the individual game generates, the whole season competition and how every game matters when the other is on a winning run.

I could be wrong but I do not think the players, management and fans miss Rangers, they miss an adversary and a season long competitor. I personally wish we could do something to create that competition from the other teams, if they can maintain that, a new adversary would/might appear.

I used to think it would be better if they kept their mouths shut and refused to answer these questions but now I think the opposite, I would rather they appeared honest and open as that characteristic is seriously lacking in the game.

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jean7brodie

jean7brodiePosted on6:42 pm - Apr 15, 2014


incredibleadamspark says:
April 15, 2014 at 5:42 pm

—————————————————————————
I’m horrified at the whole thrust of his comments but mainly, like many others have already stated, his reference to their ‘return’, ‘getting back’ to a place they haven’t been.

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Campbellsmoney

CampbellsmoneyPosted on6:45 pm - Apr 15, 2014


John Clark – you suggested that conversion might be an appropriate basis of claim against “The Trustees” (makes me think of lags in Porridge who help the prison officers). Conversion is an English doctrine. I can’t think of a Scottish equivalent.

I really don’t think that anyone will be suing anyone else over this nonsense.

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RyanGosling

RyanGoslingPosted on7:00 pm - Apr 15, 2014


What happened to Phil Mac Giolla Bhain’s prediction about an announcement to AIM this morning?

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ecobhoyPosted on7:46 pm - Apr 15, 2014


Angus1983 says:
April 15, 2014 at 6:24 pm
Cluster One says:
April 14, 2014 at 10:50 pm

Anyone know why the gers fans had an RAF card display at a scottish cup semi final?
——
Might it have been to do with the 100th anniversary of the formation of The RFC? The Royal Flying Corps, that is. 😉
====================
There were two different card displays by Rangers supporters at the game organised by two different fan groups. I think from memory the Union Bears use the ’roundel’ as an emblem so they were probably one of the two groups.

RAF was founded 1918 so not their centenary and from memory the RFC was founded in 2011 or 2012 from memory – depending on what viewpoint you take. So by a combination of guesswork and elimination I reckon that’s why I conclude the Union Bears organised the roundel card display 💡

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ecobhoyPosted on7:49 pm - Apr 15, 2014


RyanGosling says:
April 15, 2014 at 7:00 pm

What happened to Phil Mac Giolla Bhain’s prediction about an announcement to AIM this morning?
============================
I haven’t a clue about that one but I have little doubt that we could see other announcements shortly depending on how things pan out with ST sales.

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ecobhoyPosted on7:54 pm - Apr 15, 2014


jean7brodie says:
April 15, 2014 at 6:42 pm
incredibleadamspark says:
April 15, 2014 at 5:42 pm
—————————————————————————
I’m horrified at the whole thrust of his comments but mainly, like many others have already stated, his reference to their ‘return’, ‘getting back’ to a place they haven’t been.
=========================
Stokes isn’t ‘Brain of Britain’ but he is entitlerd to his personal view and if he enjoys games against Rangers better than anyone else then that’s up to him. He should of course make sure he makes it clear that’s his personal opinion.

There is also the question of how long it will be, if ever, that Rangers will be able to give Celtic a decent ‘game’. Stokes I reckon could be long gone from Parkhead before that day dawns.

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ecobhoyPosted on7:59 pm - Apr 15, 2014


OOPS

‘ RFC was founded in 2011 or 2012’ should of course read: ‘ RFC was founded in 1911 or 1912’ 😳

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Cluster One

Cluster OnePosted on8:05 pm - Apr 15, 2014


ecobhoy says:

April 15, 2014 at 7:46 pm
Cluster One says:
April 14, 2014 at 10:50 pm

Anyone know why the gers fans had an RAF card display at a scottish cup semi final?
ecobhoy says:

April 15, 2014 at 7:46 pm
I reckon that’s why I conclude the Union Bears organised the roundel card display..
I have been told It’s the flag of the “blue order” the union bears flag was displayed in the govan stand…..
You learn something every day…….Or not 😐
Also been told it was a target for john Daly to hit

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upthehoopsPosted on8:11 pm - Apr 15, 2014


ecobhoy says:
April 15, 2014 at 7:54 pm
============================
Absolutely. Stokes is entitled to his view, even if it was a response to a leading question. What does hack me off though is the media insistence that Stokes is only saying what Celtic fans refuse to admit. Why can’t they accept people have genuine, different views?

What is interesting is that no-one from Rangers has ever been asked if they miss Celtic. The whole thing is pathetic.

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StevieBC

StevieBCPosted on8:26 pm - Apr 15, 2014


I think the only thing that can be stated with certainty about TRFC – is that the uncertainty, sniping, negativity etc will continue into next season.

This will be the 3rd season in which the Ibrox club will be getting massive, undeserved media attention – and probably for non-footballing reasons. Another season opener firmly focused on the spivvery down Govan way and the MSM talking up TRFC at the expense of coverage to more deserving clubs.
The virtual ‘non-reporting’ of Raith Rovers’ cup win was shocking, IMO.

Just consider if TRFC was not in the SPFL next season.
The Scottish MSM would have to fill its pages/programmes with the positive stories out there about other teams, young up and coming players in other clubs etc.

By ‘association’, TRFC continues to sully the good name of Scottish football and the 41, [relatively], well-behaved Scottish clubs by its antics: a badly behaved club in many ways – and one to which no other club would choose to aspire to.

And the SFA continues to be a bystander…

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incredibleadamspark

incredibleadamsparkPosted on8:26 pm - Apr 15, 2014


Madbhoy24941 says:
April 15, 2014 at 6:40 pm
Jean7brodie says:
April 15, 2014 at 6:42pm
ecobhoy says:
April 15, 2014 at 7:54 pm
upthehoops says:
April 15, 2014 at 8:11 pm
___________________________________________________________________

Scottish football is not reliant on any club. If Rangers gain promotion I’ll shrug my shoulders and say good luck to them because I’m not bothered one way or the other. Clubs get promoted and relegated. Teams win trophies and sometimes they miss out. That’s football. What bothers me is the perception that the Rangers and Celtic rivalry sustains Scottish football and this theory is being put forward by an ever increasing number of Celtic people the closer Rangers get to the SPFL. I fail to see how it benefits Scottish football. They are just two of forty two league teams.

Over the years they have shown little concern, to put it mildly, for the rest of Scottish football and I think Stokes comments are fairly consistent with the thinking of both clubs to be honest.

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John ClarkPosted on8:44 pm - Apr 15, 2014


Campbellsmoney says:
April 15, 2014 at 6:45 pm
‘…Conversion is an English doctrine. I can’t think of a Scottish equivalent. ‘
———–
I don’t know enough even to begin to look for an equivalent! Pity, because a wee law suit of the kind might have been fun 🙁 ! If Phil’s grounds for writing to TRFC are sound, and RIFC have indeed got their lawyers on the job, it will be interesting to learn on what basis they have written to King and co.

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wottpiPosted on8:45 pm - Apr 15, 2014


ecobhoy says:
April 15, 2014 at 7:49 pm
5 0 Rate This

RyanGosling says:
April 15, 2014 at 7:00 pm

What happened to Phil Mac Giolla Bhain’s prediction about an announcement to AIM this morning?
============================
I haven’t a clue about that one but I have little doubt that we could see other announcements shortly depending on how things pan out with ST sales.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The tweet yesterday morning was
“Those nice people at Daniel Stewart (RIFC’s NOMAD) have just notified the AIM of an impending announcement.”

Nothing about tomorrow.

It may have related to running by the AIM folks the announcement on the club website at 20:00 last night of when the update on the 120 review would be published. Maybe just being cautious to ensure it didn’t require full disclosure on the AIM.

Could be something else altogether.
Who knows and more to the point who from the Rangers side of thing cares. Apparently the board has made it clear his stuff is all “unchallenged, ill-informed and inaccurate comments” .

Rather than worry about Irish Bloggers being right or wrong, attention needs to be given to how to sharpen up the product on the pitch and how any improvements or alterations are going to be funded.

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upthehoopsPosted on8:53 pm - Apr 15, 2014


incredibleadamspark says:
April 15, 2014 at 8:26 pm
================================
What concerns me as a Celtic fan is the apparent loss of memory from Celtic figures regarding when a Rangers was last in the top league.

Rangers spending well beyond their means while Celtic operated within their means. Rangers operated a questionable tax avoidance scheme to employ players they otherwise couldn’t afford. Rangers eventually used tax payers money to operate the club, and despite knowing the SFA sat back and did nothing until a court was involved. Not to mention the seemingly endless spats with the SFA about Refereeing decisions, most of which benefited Rangers. The SFA meanwhile tried to punish the Celtic Manager way beyond what their own rules allowed and Celtic had to employ the services of a top QC to ensure they could not do that. Meanwhile Rangers players and the Manager walked laughing from Hampden having been let off scot-free.

Does anyone from Celtic REALLY want to go back to all that?

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scottc

scottcPosted on8:55 pm - Apr 15, 2014


RyanGosling says:
April 15, 2014 at 7:00 pm
27 6 Rate This

What happened to Phil Mac Giolla Bhain’s prediction about an announcement to AIM this morning?

He didn’t say this morning. He said that Daniel Stewart had said an announcement was imminent and it was duly followed by the sponsorship announcement.

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