David Low
represents a highly significant component of the history of Celtic FC and consequently a highly significant component of how Scottish Football has panned out in the last 20 years.
As Fergus McCann’s Aide-de-Camp, Low was instrumental in helping him formulate and implement the plans which ultimately allowed control of the club to be wrested from the Kelly and White families. Low also helped McCann to rebuild and regenerate Celtic as a modern football club.
His views are unsurprisingly Celtic-centred, and this interview reveals his ambition for the club to ultimately leave Scottish Football behind. That may or may not be at odds with many of our readers, but the stark analysis of the realities facing football in this country may resonate.
He provides a window on the pragmatism of the likes of McCann, Celtic and many other clubs in respect of the demise of Rangers. He pours scorn on Dave King’s vision of a cash-rich Rangers future, and provides little comfort for those who seek succour for our failing national sport, believing that Scotland will find it impossible to emerge from the football backwater in an increasingly global industry.
Agree or not with Low’s prognosis, it is difficult to deny his compelling analysis of our place in the football world.
I enjoyed listening to the podcast and it’s fair to say that David has had a ringside seat, at an extremely important time, in Celtic’s history, and his thoughts, opinions and views are clearly and forcefully articulated, as a result. It’s to the credit of this site that we hear these opinions, in order to perhaps, clarify and refine our own, which in my case, it has.
Everything David said about the Scottish game, its’ small market and lack of weight in European terms was spot on, depressingly so. None could criticize his logic, his business sense and his reasoning for thinking that the Scottish game could end up like the Irish League, if no significant structural changes take place?
And yet……..
As a Celtic fan, I have a genuine sense of cognitive dissonance about this. I too want European success, I too want my club competing against the big guys and beating them, upsetting the odds, but……
I don’t want to leave Scottish football. I don’t want to relocate to England, or anywhere else. We’re a Scottish club and should remain so.
I do want a really competitive & vibrant league that offers young Scottish players the opportunity to develop and play regularly and I’m sanguine, as to where the competitive challenge comes from……..as long as it’s there.
So, if Santa exists, could he give me access to a European midweek League, and domestic football on Saturday’s please?
Can the European League be big enough to allow the Champions of individual countries, access to it, and not be weighted to suit the 4th teams in England, Spain, Germany etc.
And can we rigorously enforce FFP rules to stop clubs like Chelsea, Man City, Monaco etc distorting the game?
That’s all, not asking for very much 😀
“In a world where I feel so small, I can’t help thinking big” Neil Peart
Easy way to shock Griffiths into sorting his act.
Ref: Career/Riordan, Derek. 😯
What’s with ex-Hibby strikers? O’Connor is also in the news again for all the wrong reasons…
Do teams psych-evaluate their prospective players? Or even just ask them some simple questions as to how they think they should behave in public…
Cygnus
Can you realistically perceive of a model that allows mid week european ‘Champions’* football and domestic saturday football to provide said ‘Champions.’ It sounds a bit “coltish” and whilst not necessarily anti that idea per se, if it means buying and benching players that would otherwise be performing for the other domestic teams then I do have a problem with it. Yes it is exactly what is happening with players going to English teams just now, but I fail to see how your model would improve matters, other than just to Celtic (which I understand) but you would need votes to achieve it, Shirley? How would you sell the idea?
* I’m aware of the champions arguement but fear that boat has sailed – ref Arsenal’s plight just now. I should also state I have written the above without the pleasure of having actually heard David’s comments yet.
As an aside TSFM, I’m sure it raised a few eyebrows having such a celtic oriented podcast. I would be genuinely interested if you could come up with a contribution from the blue side. Not a tub thumping history rewrite, just an honest where are we/should we be/could we have been. That’s not to say I wouldn’t welcome a contribution from any of the other teams either, including my own (I doubt anyone is answering the phone in Kircaldy right now!) but I fear their response, that coat tails simply have to be ridden to best advantage, would be all too predictable. And as matters will clarify in Lithuania today especially, they’re regrettably, and most probably, right!
Growing up, my Dad instilled in us a belief in supporting the underdog. Big team vs wee team? Support the wee guys. I never really knew why, but it just seemed the “right” thing to do.
Looking back at it now, I can see that it probably came from a cultural background of being the minority, being the underdog, and sympathising with others in that situation and projecting some of the frustration and the unlikely hope onto the David and Goliath contest.
It may seem a bit rich for a Celtic fan like me to talk about being the underdog. I am sure there will be plenty of folks reading this that support other teams that will be thinking – what the hell does this guy know about being an underdog? And to some extent you are right. What about OF bias, all the dodgy refereeing etc… I hear you. Nonetheless, for all the years of growing up, we were in no doubt that we had to not just beat other teams, we had to beat the system that was set out to stop us and aid another team. Our sense of underdog was ridiculed as Celtic ‘paranoia’.
My Dad died a few years ago, shortly before all of this story started to emerge. He would have been in his element with the exposure of the corrupt SFA and the financial doping at Ibrox. I’m sure he would have had something to say about the collapse of MIH and would, like me, want to see SDM and his fellow travellers put in a dock to try to defend their shameful actions. But most of all, he would have felt the lifting of a massive burden and the relief of vindication that our ‘paranoia’ was, in fact, pretty much an accurate portrayal of the truth.
Yesterday was a great day for the underdog. David vs Goliath, even if it was just a ghost of Goliath. Not sure I could honestly claim to be a neutral, but for a fan of the underdog it was good to see. I hope Mr Hutton and his people had a great time. I hope they were dancing in the streets of Raith, and if there is a heaven, I reckon there was an old boy raising a glass in your direction last night.
RE David Low, ‘small market’, Scottish football’s ‘lack of weight’…
This does take for granted that debt-laden, TV-buttressed leagues in England, Spain or Italy for example are normal. And that they would survive something like Credit Crunch II with major banks going down and national treasuries simply not able to afford bailouts. Highly speculative of course but I’d really rather than Scottish football didn’t feel it had to compete with such a vulnerable business model.
Be interesting to see if McCoist can get a response from his players on Saturday. I feel it will be his last chance to show he will be rangers manager next season… If you think the ‘Ally Ally GTF’ yesterday was bad can you imagine the reaction at Ibrox if they go down by a couple of goals against Utd.
Waldo’s 120 day report may be hastily edited next week if things go bad. A major positive will be required to get in the SB cash, but without much in the bank and no proper credit facility how can they afford to move out Ally and his management team as well as some of the higher paid dead wood. £1,5m and more will come off the SB sales right away, they could be looking at double that again to make some true cuts for the longer term good of rangers. We live in interesting times.
Good Morning.
I have no doubt that few if any in this site have ever heard of Yakima Canutt. Yet, I am also in no doubt whatsoever that every single reader of this site will have seen the aforementioned Canutt in action… without realising either who or what they were watching.
Yakima was not his real name as he was originally christened Enos Edward Canutt having been borne and raised in the Snake River Hills, near Colfax, Washington.
Young Enos came from ranching stock and by the age of 11 he was able to break a wild bronco and by 17, standing at 6ft 3 Inches, he was declared the world’s best Bronco Buster. By 1917 he won the first of several world rodeo titles and had gained his nickname of Yakima ( often shortened to just Yak ) when he was mistakenly described as coming from the town of Yakina Washington.
Canutt’s undoubted and remarkable ability with horses, bulls and any other type of creature took him to Hollywood where he established himself as arguably the greatest stunt man ( certainly the greatest stunt rider ) of all time. It was he who would perfect the technique of jumping between horses on John Ford’s Stagecoach and his expertise in Hollywood was such that he was the go to stuntman for anything to do with horses, fight scenes, motorbikes or just about anything else.
Further, John Wayne has admitted that the Duke’s entire screen ( and indeed real life ) persona is based on Canutt — the loping walk, the long slow drawl, certain movements of the head — are all results of a young Wayne studying “Yak Canutt”. Said Wayne, “I spent weeks studying the way Yakima Canutt walked and talked. He was a real cowhand.”
Over the years, Canutt would double for Wayne several times — he also doubled for Douglas Fairbanks Junior, Clarke Gable,Jack Randall, Gene Autrey, Charlton Heston, Roy Rodgers and many more. On Screen, Yakima Canutt would be The Lone Ranger, Zorro, Juda Ben Hur ( He masterminded the whole chariot race scene with not a single horse being injured ), El Cid and near enough anyone else who fell off or climbed on a horse.
He was an expert at staging fights and had nerves of steel — it was claimed that by the end of his career he had in fact broken every bone in his body!
Yet, as I said at the start of this piece– very few outwith the inner circle of Hollywood will have heard his name– yet he was one of the greatest “make believe” artists of the 20th century.
Hidden from the camera, Canutt developed all sorts of harnesses, rope pulleys, and other devices which allowed him to leap over and from galloping horses — leaving an amazed audience looking on at what seemed an impossible feat.
So — why mention the fantastic Mt Canutt on a Scottish Football blog?
Well, towards the tail end of last week, Barcabhoy revealed the state of the latest set of financials from Murray International Holdings and the latest statement from the official chairman of the company Sir David Murray.
A brief look at the figures shows an annual loss of circa £140 Million and an overall balance sheet deficit of more than half a Billion pounds. Yet, a good number of business days on, any google search for these figures, or comment on thee figures or the chairman’s statement result in precisely no returns– nothing– zero!
What does come up are the results from last year where it was reported that MIH lost only £97 Million for the year to June 2012. However, in return for having steered the company to such catastrophic losses, Sir David Murray had somehow justified an increase in pay taking his declared salary for the year up to £819,000.
Clearly, while this seems an extraordinary sum to be paid for overseeing spectacular losses, one has to bear in mind that the figure concerned was actually less than the salary of some 3rd division football managers and of course did not include any benefits paid by way of any tax saving scheme which might be in existence nor salary or dividends from any businesses or enterprises which were sold off to Murray family members and so on.
Now, if we accept Sir David’s statement, the business of MIH is at an end, it has lost over half a billion of the tax payers money and is in no position to meet its pension obligations.
Yet, this is MIH, one of Scotland’s flagship companies of the 90’s and the naughtes, the darling of the Scottish Business and Banking community, friend of the press, and the standard bearer of all that is good about Scotland and its business community— no?
Eh– no —- that was what you were meant to believe and indeed that is what many in the world of business, media and football did believe — for almost twenty years!
Except that many people knew that much of the Murray bubble was based on hot air. Constantly increasing self certified property valuations were accepted by Bankers for a prolonged period with no independent checks or risk assessments being made. Not only was this remarkable in itself but basically there seemed to be one rule for Murray businesses and another rule for nearly everyone else when it came to the Bank of Scotland.
The financial journalist and blogger Ian Fraser has long since questioned just how Murray managed to get so much out of HBOS — a question which has apparently vexed the minds of those at Lloys bank who inherited what has been described as an unbelievable position for a bank to be in with a customer.
Yet the Murray myth persists with the likes of certain well known football journalists proclaiming recently that until the arrival of Craig Whyte the finances of the Murray backed Rangers PLC were in robust health. Yet this is so clearly not the case.
Yes Rangers PLC had a reducing bank debt in the last few years of its existence, but the level of debt overall had not in fact disappeared as by 2005 Murray had ploughed in another £60M of debt owed to MIH by way of underwriting shares and so on.
The Bank of Scotland was bust by April 2008 in real terms and as of that date the writing was on the wall for the MIH business as well as many others. They were never getting renewed facilities at the bank, the were overextended at the bank, they had overstated their asset values to the bank, and were fast running out of room to manoeuvre in the way they had done for over a decade.
Yet no one dare question this reality and in the world of football there was an absolute inability to see behind the world of financial make believe that was being spouted via the nationals which kept proclaiming that Rangers were turning a corner as recently as 2011-2012.
Much has been made of the fact that some say that the Bank forced Murray into the sale to Whyte — though very few ask the question just why the bank forced such a sale. Basically, Rangers lost money year on year with remarkable consistency and on the few occasions a financial director was able to post a profit there were always extraordinary events within the accounts which masked the truth.
The Ibrox financial model had been bust for years although most alarmingly guys like Alastair Johnstone took the view that if all went belly up they could just add some of the debt onto the Murray tab with HBOS and that would sort everything.
Today, we know that was — to be frank — a pile of cobblers and was never going to happen.
Yet the SFA and the SPL — organisations which are meant to have checks and balances which act as a weathervane to provide advance warning of impending financial distress — were equally oblivious to the impending doom and gloom that was inevitably going bring Rangers PLC down and which would rock Scottish Football to the core — mainly because Scottish Football could not forsee what to do in such an event and had no clue how to react for the good of the game.
Perhaps now, in the light of the latest statements in the Murray accounts, the press, the SFA and everyone else will realise that the MIH ball has burst and burst spectacularly. Further, perhaps there should be an examination of what was presented ( and what was not ) to the SFA and others by the Directors of MIH and Rangers PLC in an attempt to cover up the mess both companies had gotten into and how those representation affected the mindset of those who govern the game and their actions subsequent to the administration and liquidation of Rangers PLC.
In many respects, all that was said and all that was represented at the time was pure make believe, and everyone will recall David Murray being chairman, resigning as chairman, returning as chairman — in short jumping from horse to horse like Yakima Canutt in his hey day.
It could be said that Maurray and Canutt were both kings of stunt and masters of make believe.
Yakima Canutt was a real Cowboy.
David Murray is a knight of the realm.
The SFA continue to sit in the cheap seats for the Saturday matinee.
It is often true that any cultural or sports enterprise’s reputation can be judged by the quality of its sponsors. Scottish football cannot source any spinsorship for its entire league structure – uniquely in any modern sports competition. Its other sponsors are a bookmakers, a pawnbrokers and the government laundering proceeds of crime. Says it all really.
Auldheid says:
April 7, 2014 at 1:52 am
Ecobhoy
It seems that as things stand Griffith’s does not get “it” but how could he if he has never been exposed to the very characteristics that he appears to lack?
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I hear your plea for charity and indeed I had some misgiving about the previous record of Griffiths when he joined Celtic so, in a sense, I have already extended charitable forgiveness and was happy to accept that he had a right to a fresh start.
However you have raised an important point about new players and other staff and whether they are made aware of the Celtic culture & history when they join the club. I had always assumed that there would be some kind of induction plus with players a more in-depth explanation of what it means to pull-on a Celtic shirt and the onerous responsibilities that entails as well as the ‘goldfish bowl’ made from magnifying glass which reveals every personal flaw.
As to showing ‘charity’ towards Griffiths I don’t think there will be enough time left in his playing career to bring about true contrition and acceptable rehab. However, already the waters are becoming muddied with some reports now claiming he stopped singing before the offending words. It looks as though the PR campaign is swinging into action.
This isn’t an issue that can be hidden behind closed doors IMO as I think Celtic fans and even players and staff from other countries have a clear right to have full confidence that Celtic won’t condone racism in any form.
Obviously some others will use the incident to attack Celtic but the club’s focus must be firmly fixed on doing the right thing for Scottish society and Scottish Football rather than just a cover-up to protect the club.
I happen to believe that if Griffiths wasn’t a Celtic player there would be little, if any, sympathy for his actions from Celtic supporters some of whom seem to be prepared to find excuses for his actions and believe his detractors display a lack of charity.
I have taken a hard-line all my life against racism and in my experience those who foment that kind of hatred always see ‘charity & forgiveness’ as a weakness to be exploited to further their evil message.
And I don’t accept the hard or troubled upbringing excuse either as that casts a slur on the vast majority of people who have come through that particular experience without becoming racists.
However I have made my personal decision on this issue and I will await developments at Parkhead.
From twitter
BBCBMcLauchlin @BBCBMcLauchlin 43m
Majority of UBIG creditors vote in favour of accepting deal for shares in Hearts.#bbcsportscot
Twitter
BBCBMcLauchlin @BBCBMcLauchlin 45m
Ukio Bankas yet to confirm if they will also accept offer for Hearts shares.#bbcsportscot
Did Ally McCoist really say that about unbeaten in 90 minutes?
I’d be interested to know the position of the potential sponsors.
Is it a case that they haven’t been asked? Is it a case that the price asked is deemed too high?
If it is the former, and I suspect it is, what could it be the men in suits are waiting for I wonder? Have they taken the view perchance that selling “the complete package” in just over a years time will earn them more than selling “the integrity intact” package just now. Immediately I would have thought that a two year deal selling the top two divisions would currently be worth a fortune in publicity. Both divisions will be tight (apart from the top of the premiership but we’re working on that!). Also, there would now be an investment value in taking on the deal as you would stand a chance (odds to be decided after yesterday) of getting the “complete package” next year. If it is the case that the price asked is too high I would say three things. Firstly, that the price asked relative to scandinavia etc does not appear to be the stumbling block so why here, especially to a national brand that would not be so exposed to the inevitable boycott if things did not go as planned. Secondly, and referring to the first point, is the salesman (on £350,000 of our hard earned) pitching it properly since certainly his public statements are of the type “I haven’t managed to get a sponsor for any of this s**t.” Thirdly that’s now two years with no sponsorship I believe with nothing lined up publicly for next year. Are you telling me the gamble (if it was that) to wait for their return to complete the package was going to be worth that much more? Four times the value of a little and often deal? If it is then that’s a problem the SPFL will need to address going forward. Restoring the old order (in any way unfairly – and I include promotion post administration#2 in that ) is not to be mistaken with addressing this problem!
Edit – meant to add, nor is welcoming another sugar daddy every two years.
I wonder if yesterday’s result will have any impact on Rangers’ ticket sales for the Scottish Cup Semi Final. It’d be awfully ironic if they couldn’t sell their allocation.
Good Morning
broganrogantrevinoandhogan says:
April 7, 2014 at 10:55 Yamkima Canutt was a real Cowboy.
David Murray is a knight of the realm.
The SFA continue to sit in the cheap seats for the Saturday matinee.
………………………………………….
Might I suggest that the knight of the realm is a real cowboy?
The SFA sit on their hands in the cheap seats staring at their shoes, too afraid to watcch the picture.
The problem with our game is the conflicted ones, yes there is more than one, in our game.
Eventually their bubble will burst too and we will be left with a damp patch.
In the meantime congratulations to Raith Rovers.
As for Mr. Griffiths I have no truck with racism in any form. I have no sympathy for him but given that it was part of the same incident I would hope that Celtic would hammer him and impose on him that this is indeed his LAST chance. Another strike and you are out.
We all have done stupid things and cringe when we recall them in our more mature years.
If it is a lack of education and maturity he can be rehabilitated. He should be fined suspended from first team duties and made to attend a course to instill what is missing.
Should that not work then he must be let go.
BRTH
Excellent summary. There are “journalists” and officials at the SFA who wonder why football fans are so animated over David Murray. Yesterdays man is the most common response that i get when i raise the subject privately. Lets move on , is another popular response.
To be fair there are a couple of very good , very fair journalists who have privately exchanged communication with me , in which they are scathing about Murray and have written publicly in strong terms about him. However they are in the minority.
Yesterday’s Man and Lets move on though aren’t going to cut it in terms of fixing the Murray problem. There are 2 aspects to Murray that need public scrutiny and a public enquiry in my view.
The first aspect is his relationship with HBOS , and previously BOS. Ian Fraser is far more expert than me on the specific nature of the ludicrous lending policies of the 2 main Scottish Banks. These banks had a very large amount of public money pumped into them, to save them and to save the entire financial structure in the UK.
The questions that demand to be answered are
1 On what basis was money lent to MIH.
Who approved the lending , and why was £1 Billion lent to an organisation with only 10% of that sum in retained reserves.
2 Why did HBOS allow in house valuations on MIH property assets
3 Did the Bank restrict the amount of money Murray could take out of the business whilst they were so heavily exposed to MIH. If not, why not
4 What questions did the non exec directors of MIH ask of the board , to enable themselves to be convinced that the MIH strategy was prudent & sustainable
Non-executive directors are expected to focus on board matters and not “stray into executive directions”. In so doing they should provide an independent view of the company, distinct from its day-to-day operations. Non-executive directors therefore are appointed to bring to the board:
(a) independence
(b) impartiality
(c) wide experience
(d) specialist knowledge
(e) personal qualities.
Given the amounts of public money lost by MIH , i believe the advice of the non execs should be brought under scrutiny, as should the actions of both lender and borrower.
There are many more questions to be asked of Murray , but thats a start.
On Football matters , this has been covered many many times on here, so chapter and verse is not required. A couple of bullet points will suffice.
1 Murray was owner and Chairman when the illegal tax evasion Discounted option scheme was undertaken by Rangers as a method of paying players
2 Murray was owner and Chairman when Rangers deliberately wittheld the side letters from the SFA/SPL relating to the DOS scheme. This happened over a 4 year period for 3 players
3 Murray was Chairman and owner when Rangers deliberately witheld in excess of 40 side letters from the SFA/ SPL over a 10 year period.
The EBT scheme may yet be ruled as being another illegal tax evasion scheme entered into under Murray’s control, and indeed 5 cases have been admitted by Rangers as having tax due. Even without final decision on this aspect, points 1-3 are so serious there shoukd be an SFA enquiry and charges of bringing the game into disrepute. However this would in all probability lead to an enquiry into the actions of the current SFA President.
Ogilvie isn’t yesterday’s man. No such defence can be played by his supporters / apologists. The actions of Murray and Ogilvie will not disappear by the SFA doing nothing. They thought they could ignore fan opinion and bounce Rangers into the top division and when that failed into the Championship, as it is now. They were wrong.
They think by ignoring legitimate calls for enquiry into the actions of Murray and Ogilvie , outrage will subside and it will all die down. They are very very wrong. The demands for action are just starting, the noise will get louder. The SFA could take the lead and order an independent enquiry into Murray & Ogilvie. They could show that truth and reconciliation is more important than protecting the man who caused the downfall of a huge Scottish Club, and was in charge of a club guilty of serial rule breaking . They could also show that no matter how high an official you are, you have to be held accountable for your past actions.
Real leadership would act on this. Weak leadership sits at Hampden hoping the noise goes down
Ermm, I know this is likely to be unpopular but listening to the podcast, I’m not sure I liked what I heard. I realise David Low is a better businessman than I am, know he deserves great credit for his part in the saving of Celtic and know, therefore, that he is more experienced in business matters, strategy etc than I am, but I felt it came across as someone who (almost like the sfa & msm!) could not see anything other than a return to the past, with RFC* back as the only team capable of providing acceptable competition for Celtic. I know their fanbase helps that perception, but as is regularly commented on in this forum, everything else (overheads, fan expectations etc) almost nullifies that advantage. I think if a non-Celtic ‘figurehead’ were to say these things, they would be slated on here yet no one is commenting. He even actually recognises that that rivalry is based on all the bad reasons, but is prepared to accept that, just to help Celtic raise their game. Again, a view I think would be slated if, say, CO or SR were to suggest we should put up with the full emergency wards because it helps the ‘Old Firm’. Finally, I thought his vision for where he wants and expects to see Celtic (in the quarters and better of the CL) – even if that meant abandoning a low quality SPFL – reeked of the sort of sense of entitlement that is regularly ridiculed on here when RFC* people display it. The fact he would only like that to be done ‘legitimately’ does not make enough of a difference for me. The attitude of ‘they’ll only drag us down’ (my wording) so let’s just leave them to get on with it is not one I share and I fail to see how no one seems to think that an Aberdeen , Dundee United, or lots of teams could, under the right conditions, provide better/wider competition than RFC* did. I know I’m being naïve and idealistic, but his vision means chasing as much money as possible (legitimately) to compete with the other moneyed clubs, but as posted above, who is to say that the bubble is not ready to burst?
I know there are posters who will respect – and maybe even know – David Low. I’m just not convinced of his stance and not entirely convinced that it ties in with the general thinking of this forum. I may have misinterpreted the general thinking here, but I’m surprised at the lack of comment. I’m ready for (but never worry about) the TDs.
Smugas says:
April 7, 2014 at 11:27 am
I’d be interested to know the position of the potential sponsors.
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I wrote a little time back that if they have given up for this season then why not tie up with a charity and provide them with some exposure for a few months? Apart from being a nice thing to do I felt that this would also give a higher profile to the sponsorship opportunity and thus assist in securing a company for next season.
It appears that the authorities are content to let things slide – I can only hope that they do have something up their sleeve for next season though past experience suggests it will not be as good a deal as they should be getting.
At least they’ve stopped talking the game down.
Scottish Football needs a good Spring clean.
barcabhoy
Very good post. The ranger’s tax case was never really about football. Football provided the set dressing, and the theater, and, it has to be said a lot of entertainment, but it’s always been a sub-plot. A sub-plot which has thrown a harsh unforgiving spotlight onto the internal machinations of the Football Authorities. If the people who sit in the boardrooms at Hampden were smart, they would set up your enquiry, unfortunately they are not, so change when it comes will be far more painful than it need have been.
The real story behind RTC, ha always been about how UKPLC does business, and more particularly how the changes wrought by the Big Bang actually played out in the real world, as opposed to the economists of the times fantasies. Did the big Bang produce good things? of course it did, but, there were and are a lot of unintended consequences.Sadly the UK Government, (well all Governments really), are no more inclined to look into the root causes of the current problems than the SFA are. So we get some minor tinkering, then the juggernaut goes back on the road, in a condition which is just as unsafe as it was before the last crash.
I agree with your concerns although stress again I haven’t had the chance to listen directly yet. In terms of commenting I let the celtic focus pass in so far as it wasn’t dressed up to be anything else, per TSFM’s opening comments above and my own earlier comments re looking forward to an alternate viewpoint in future posts.
It does interest me that a purely commercial strategy for Celtic’s future is not meeting universal acclaim on here. I wonder to what degree it is easier to preach from the mountain top, rather than being permenantly stuck in the slippery foothills.
OK I’m going to stop preaching myself until I’ve actually listened to the damned thing! Now then where’s that 4 year old – go and show me how to download this poddy thing for me….pleeeaaase…
@ Nawlite 1208
Dare I even go further and say that the podcast actually disagrees with Peter Lawells business strategy. Has Peter not said that CFC are a stand alone business model who are not defined by any other club?
I will start building my barricade now. 🙂
Campbellsmoney says:
April 5, 2014 at 12:55 pm
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upthehoops says:
April 5, 2014 at 12:44 pm
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Danish Pastry says:
April 5, 2014 at 8:12 am
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Surely the option of simply restarting as a newco then being voted back into the leagues can’t possibly be denied to Hearts? Precedent set.
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Different league rules now.
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So in the unlikely (but not impossible) event of a The Rangers liquidation, that will be the final final end for them this time, and the SFA/SPFL et al will just stand by and let that happen?
Campbellsmoney says:
April 5, 2014 at 12:55 pm
13 1 i
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upthehoops says:
April 5, 2014 at 12:44 pm
3 0 i
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Danish Pastry says:
April 5, 2014 at 8:12 am
=========================
Surely the option of simply restarting as a newco then being voted back into the leagues can’t possibly be denied to Hearts? Precedent set.
—————————————————————————————————————-
Different league rules now.
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So in the unlikely (but not impossible) event of a Rangers liquidation 2, that will be the final final end and the SFA/SPFL et al will just stand by and let that happen? i.e. no team playing in blue at Ibrox, claiming to be Rangers, no transfer of share and other shenanigans in senior Scottish football?
redlichtie says:
April 7, 2014 at 12:11 pm
I wrote a little time back that if they have given up for this season then why not tie up with a charity and provide them with some exposure for a few months? Apart from being a nice thing to do I felt that this would also give a higher profile to the sponsorship opportunity and thus assist in securing a company for next season.
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That’s a fantastic idea.
broganrogantrevinoandhogan says:
April 7, 2014 at 10:55 am
Now, if we accept Sir David’s statement, the business of MIH is at an end, it has lost over half a billion of the tax payers money and is in no position to meet its pension obligations.
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BRTH…many thanks for such a sublime incisive post…nice to see you posting again!
However, amongst the two “cowboys” you rightly refer to, one genuine, the other a Thatcherite creation, lie a horde (I hope I can use that word!) of Scottish CAs, in both MIH and RFC(IL)/TRFC, who have, at David Murray’s bidding or otherwise, connived to quite literally, pull the wool over so many financial institutions, and over a period exceeding two decades!
The banner headline across the monthly ICAS magazine is: “World Class Business Professionals”…(honestly!).
This whole omnishambles requires so many public enquiries that the cost of them would raise the Scottish Public Sector Borrowing Requirement off the scale.
PS and the saddest part of all this is that many ordinary people will lose out on their pensions…and this guy lives in France (sic) and is a knight of the realm (sick!)
Still a long way to go, but jambos can breath a little easier today
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/latest/ubig-creditors-approve-hearts-shareholding-deal-1-3367638
Couple of cracking posts from BRTH and Barcabhoy.
I’m also of the opinion that there must be a public inquiry into how the game got into the state where rules, regulations and laws were flouted by individuals at Rangers FC and the SFA.
The LNS inquiry was a sham, no one believes you can give tax free bungs and not gain a “sporting advantage”, that is the whole reasoning behing the bung in the first place, to achieve a “sporting advantage”.
The reaction of fans to the SFA rep at the trophy presentation to Aberdeeen was telling. The SFA are distrusted, in fact, dispised, is probably not too strong a word.
We need a complete clearout before we can move on.
Well done to Raith Rovers. Karma can be powerful, it was written that Rangers would meet United too………….the fact that it is at Ibrox, and hopefully a sell out, is all the sweeter.
Slimshady61…you have PM.
toadinthehole says:
April 7, 2014 at 12:43 pm
redlichtie says:
April 7, 2014 at 12:11 pm
I wrote a little time back that if they have given up for this season then why not tie up with a charity and provide them with some exposure for a few months? Apart from being a nice thing to do I felt that this would also give a higher profile to the sponsorship opportunity and thus assist in securing a company for next season.
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That’s a fantastic idea.
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A great idea indeed gentlemen, but hell would freeze over first…simply not in the mindset or culture of those in control.
charity sponsorship: Scottish Refugee Council … anyone care to nominate a player to help with the press launch?
ecobhoy says:
April 7, 2014 at 11:10 am
Forgiveness, true forgiveness is not for the weak, it is for the strong. It means taking risks and because that can mean seventy times seven it can appear weak to those to whom it is offered but if done in a way that respects the intrinsic value of both parties it can work.
With regard to the other points I thought these exchanges from CQN kind of set out where the matter now stands.
Ger57
7 April
Celtic are judged differently by the MSM. We judge ourselves differently.
If Leigh Griffiths has behaved in a racist manner, he will be disciplined as Celtic see fit. The club will not indulge in “whataboutery” nor pander to the agenda driven, hurting hun media.
I am inclined to agree with Morrissey the 23rd that he should be sacked. It sends a powerful message to the world that we will not tolerate any form of racism or discrimination. We are on the side of immigrants and the oppressed.
If LG were to make an abject apology, and undertake a period of unpaid work with a refugee group, highlighting the problems they face, there MAY be a case for not dismissing him.
winning captains
7 April, 2014
Had Leigh Griffiths as a Wolves player and a Scotland internationalist acted in the way he did in his own time at the recent Hearts – Hibs match then there would have been ZERO press coverage.
The Daily Record are leading on this today because they are appealing to the lowest common denominator in their ever decreasing market. When we lost to Raith Rovers in the league cup final we would have avoided the papers the next day. Likewise The Rangers supporter would otherwise be reluctant to look at a paper today. With the LG racist story they might buy it. Desperate stuff from a desperate rag.
Had The Rangers won yesterday then maybe that would have been the front page news.
The LG story is simply an anti Celtic story.
If he is a ned who needs to learn to behave, Celtic can sort that out themselves. That’s where I’d leave it.
Auldheid
7 April
Another message that a sacking sends to the world is that we allow ourselves to be manipulated by inappropriate guilt.
Inappropriate guilt is when someone takes on responsibility for something wrong that in reality they have no control over.
Guilt is an age old tool of manipulation whether the guilt be appropriate ( a wrongdoing we are fully responsible for) or inappropriate.
It is a surrender of self to the judgement of others and not a step to be embarked on lightly for if the manipulation works, it will happen again.
I’m not sure what sacking Griffith’s will achieve for Griffiths or Celtic but I am pretty sure it will not stop further attempts at manipulation
Ger 57
I accept that Celtic must not let themselves be pushed into an action simply to appease their detractors. However I feel we must show that racism is totally unacceptable. I did say in my post that If LG shows proper contrition for his actions and carries out some work with a refugee support group, that could save his job. It would also improve him as a person.
I think this latter point is a good one btw but I appreciate your own reasons for a hard line approach, sometimes it works and is then actually charitable, sometimes it does not and so cannot be charitable.
Getting it right and as result understanding the true but variable nature of charity, depending on the circumstances , is the learning to love challenge we face with every new situation.
In that sense every day is a school day.
MoreCelticParanoia says:
April 7, 2014 at 12:43 pm
So in the unlikely (but not impossible) event of a Rangers liquidation 2, that will be the final final end and the SFA/SPFL et al will just stand by and let that happen? i.e. no team playing in blue at Ibrox, claiming to be Rangers, no transfer of share and other shenanigans in senior Scottish football?
——
I really can’t see that another Ibrox liquidation will be allowed to happen. All manner of geometrical props can and will be installed to prevent it.
However, I really believe that Rangers are floundering out of control as it stands. The weight of expectation has proved to be too heavy a burden, but one which they were desperate to meet. Had they shrugged off that weight and done things even half properly, they would be in a much better state today, and would have earned a lot more respect.
Shooting for the stars and hoping to hit the moon doesn’t work when your rocket is of the Mr Wallace & Mr Gromit variety. Not in real life, anyway.
Mr McInnes did an excellent job at Aberdeen – he saw that the old guard had to go before progress could be made. Mr McCoist could have followed this plan – he had the chance – but he chose to further embed those players who he’d have been best advised to move on. TUPE didn’t help – perhaps the McCullochs of this world will soon be found out as the mercenaries we all knew they were at the time. I allow myself a small snigger today imagining them waking up this morning to the sound of dropping pennies and thinking about the contribution they’ve made to the reputation of their Club in return for the contribution the Club has made to their bank balance.
On a side note, I notice the redtops’ front pages appear to contain large headlines about some ex-Celtic player having done something wrong. Surely there was a “game of the season” on yesterday if they wanted a footballing headline? Poor show, SMSM, if entirely predictable.
Barcabhoy says:
April 7, 2014 at 11:52 am
I do not know what angers me more, the corruption of a game I loved to play and watch or being treated like a fool by the stupid.
“as oil is to the oil industry so is stupidity to the football industry” a quote taken from Soccernomics.
The denial of a truth that is self evident and say much about Scottish society is reminiscent of the person unwilling to take the first of the twelve steps.
I share some of Nawlite’s concerns with David Low’s comments. It’s true I have posted on here before that some sort of pan-Euro league will happen for bigger teams from the less populated Euro countries, disadvantaged by UEFA’s TV money disbursement as they are. The CL only exists in its current format as the bigger teams from the most populated countries wanted more cash. UEFA either gives the likes of Ajax, Benfica and others more cash or sets up a league to do so.
However, what that future may hold for Scottish football is troublesome. A “return” to Celtic and/or Rangers domination merely puts the game back to where it was before Rangers imploded. That is not satisfactory.
The game is in need of major structural change. The SFA are proven to be utterly complacent and incompetent and cannot provide the answers.
Time for independent panel to think the unthinkable. Incorporate the top 6 of SPFL into the English League? Regionalise the rest and introduce play offs in a pyramid structure to the League 2 in England? A new Euro league place for SPFL winners?
I dont know what the answer is . However the current situation is not tenable, neither is any “return” to the domination of the Glasgow 2.
David Low is a Celtic fan. He sees what the best options are for Celtic. The rest of Scottish football is not his concern.
Somebody needs to start thinking of the overall welfare of our game or it will over time dwindle and the likes of Celtic & Rangers will go anyway.
TSFM, as interesting as Low may be, I thought this a poor choice for a podcast. Too Celtic centric, something as a Celtic fan, I thought the blog should try and steer clear of.
Turnbull Hutton? Henry McLeish? Andy Roxburgh?
Angus1983 says:
April 7, 2014 at 1:34 pm
On a side note, I notice the redtops’ front pages appear to contain large headlines about some ex-Celtic player having done something wrong. Surely there was a “game of the season” on yesterday if they wanted a footballing headline? Poor show, SMSM, if entirely predictable.
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Angus, what would the headline have been? “Diddy team and manager lose pawn shop cup final”?
Scottish Football looks forward to next weekend.
Heraldscotland
David Murray reveals his profound regret over Rangers deal
Helen McArdle
News Reporter
Monday 7 April 2014
(The Royal “We”) An apology ?
FORMER Rangers owner Sir David Murray has spoken of his “profound regret” over the decision to sell his majority shareholding in the Ibrox club to Scots businessman Craig Whyte.
In the chairman’s statement accompanying the latest accounts filed by Murray International Holdings Ltd, Sir David said: “Looking back, we continue to profoundly regret selling our majority shareholding in Rangers to Craig Whyte. We remain staggered at the revelations that materialised after the beginning of 2012, bitterly disappointed at the outcome of the administration and saddened at the ongoing uncertainty that appears no closer to resolution.”
(Naw It wiznae my fault) Deluded or” Duped” ?
Sir David added: “After the decision of the first-tier tax tribunal, it was evident for all to see that the club need not have entered liquidation. It is also abundantly clear that it would not have gone into administration or liquidation had the purchaser fulfilled its contractual obligations and responsibilities.”
(sumday blabbed) Vengeful ?
“Similar to our own complaint relating to the leakage of confidential information, we hope that the relevant authorities conclude their investigations and commence proceedings at the earliest opportunity.”
Original here:- http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/david-murray-reveals-his-profound-regret-over-rangers-deal.23890858
nawlite says:
April 7, 2014 at 12:08 pm
‘… He even actually recognises that that rivalry is based on all the bad reasons, but is prepared to accept that, just to help Celtic raise their game. .’
———–
Like you,nawlite, I was more than a little disturbed by Low’s apparent readiness to endorse ‘religious conflict’ as a market rationale for a sport. I’m still mulling over his observations.
woodstein says:
April 7, 2014 at 2:00 pm
Read it earlier, DM’s apology had all the sincerity of Maria Miller’s, but lacked the brevity. Still good to see that just as Rangers only know how to play football one way, DM only knows how to deal with difficult news one way, release a non-story to deflect attention.
Somebody mention £500 million?
http://www.celticfc.net/newsstory?item=5668
Smart move
“we remain staggered” – you and me both Sir David sweetie, you and me both
I have no wish to defend Leigh Griffiths behaviour or to be accused of ‘whataboutery’, but perhaps someone can explain to me how on earth the ‘Compliance Officer’ can ignore a footballer registered under SFA rules being arrested, charged and found guilty of assaulting not one but two police officers, and not being served with a Notice of Complaint. I can think of other incidences over the past year which I will not go into here.
Angus1983 says:
April 7, 2014 at 1:34 pm
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MoreCelticParanoia says:
April 7, 2014 at 12:43 pm
So in the unlikely (but not impossible) event of a Rangers liquidation 2, that will be the final final end and the SFA/SPFL et al will just stand by and let that happen? i.e. no team playing in blue at Ibrox, claiming to be Rangers, no transfer of share and other shenanigans in senior Scottish football?
——
I really can’t see that another Ibrox liquidation will be allowed to happen. All manner of geometrical props can and will be installed to prevent it.
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That was my point 😛
Props which would not be made available to Hearts or Dunfermline or AN Other club
ekt1m says:
April 7, 2014 at 2:19 pm
I don’t think the SFA have any business getting involved in those cases, any more than they have in getting involved in Mr Griffiths. the clubs on the other hand really ought to take action.
Sugar Daddy says:
April 7, 2014 at 1:37 pm
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The CL only exists in its current format as the bigger teams from the most populated countries wanted more cash. UEFA either gives the likes of Ajax, Benfica and others more cash or sets up a league to do so.
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This talk of a pan-European league for “second tier” teams has been on the go for 15 years now (remember the Atlantic League proposal circa 1999/2000?).
I can’t say I find it all that appealing – the Europa League is effectively such a model.
I’ve never seen anyone explain how such a league would work. Would the clubs involved forfeit participation in the Champions League? Almost certainly not. So that would leave potentially competing in domestic league, european league and CL/Europa Cup.
Or would these clubs be required to abandon their national league structures?
Scapaflow at 2.22pm. Good point made, But the wording of the rule (which i don’t have to hand) they use, makes it clearly apparent that any ‘bad’ behaviour falls within their remit. This is where the nub of the problem lies. The rule needs reworking.
MoreCelticParanoia
I have no idea how it would work, that would be the job of UEFA and constituent leagues to resolve.
I disagree the Europa League would be the model though, although some teams that regularly appear in it may be in any “Atlantic League II”. 48 teams contest the group stage of Europa League, many from England, Spain, Germany, Italy, France & perhaps Russia – none of whom would want or be asked to join.
NZ & Australia already share a Premier League, there were rumours/proposals of Ukraine & Russia piloting a joint league although Mr Putin seems to have taken such matters out of UEFA’s hands.
The CL has created huge global interest in European football & the big leagues that provide the majority if not the entirety of its latter stage participants and thus the money available is staggering in comparison to that available to smaller leagues. Big clubs just by dint of geography & current UEFA rules are not going to sit idly by and watch Barca, Real, Bayern + the odd English side take turns at winning the CL every year.
National associations in other sports seem to manage. Rugby has teams from Scotland, Wales, Ireland and Italy playing in a league. All retain domestic leagues, national teams and clubs can qualify for European competition.
Something will give. its just what and when that is to be decided.
woodstein says:
April 7, 2014 at 2:00 pm
Sir David added: “… the club need not have entered liquidation. It is also abundantly clear that it would not have gone into administration or liquidation …(cont. p94)”
——
Perhaps Mr Murray would care to explain exactly which “club” entered liquidation, and what that means?
ekt1m says:
April 7, 2014 at 3:10 pm
It does, but, then what connected with the SFA doesn’t need re-working?
North Sea League problem: if you’re going to run a transnational league for teams from Scotland, Scandinavia & the Low Countries for example, then the whole point is to aggregate up the interest, TV audience and TV revenue thanks to a much bigger population base than individual countries concerned could manage. This would make it much more likely that the Celtics, Feyenoords or Ajaxes of this world would get richer hence afford better players BUT qualification for the Champs League would come via finishing in the top 3 or 4 of the North Sea League because the Celtics, Feyenoords & Ajaxes would no longer be playing in the Scottish Premier/Eredivisie. Same kind of challenge faced by Everton/Spurs/Liverpool every season. Managing relegation back to the national top tiers would be tricky but not impossible.
100BJD: Wow, I’m not a professional but there seems to be enough material there to keep a few libel lawyers in the manner to which they’ve become accustomed… Really missing Paul McConville on days like today 🙁
Celtic’s David Low helped Charles Green Leggo’s exclusive confirmed….
http://www.gersnetonline.co.uk/vb/showthread.php?43483-Leggat-Celtic-s-David-Low-Confirms-Link-To-Charles-Green
Broadsword calling Davie Bhoy, Broadsword calling Davie Bhoy, Come in Davie Bhoy
The stuff posted by 100BJD comes from (as 100BJD says) the “Blue side of town”. It was part of a campaign some months ago (pre-AGM ) by a Rangers fan (I think he went by the name of “Big George” or some such soubriquet) from London (I think) who was trying desperately to get Rangers fans to rebel against the board because (as Big George thought) – they were “at it”. He (the George chappie) was leafleting and all for arranging meetings/protests. Not sure what became of him.
At the time I noted (with some surprise) the mention of Active Corporate – a relatively small Glasgow accounting/financial business.
The “Blue side of town” document was originally published last August and now has over 20,000 views:
Great post again by the mighty BRT&H, his term “Murray myths” has to be used!
To the tune of an old confectionary ad…?
Murray myths, Murray myths!
Time to end the Murray myths!
I too will get my coat…
rabtdog says:
April 7, 2014 at 4:08 pm
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North Sea League problem: if you’re going to run a transnational league for teams from Scotland, Scandinavia & the Low Countries for example, then the whole point is to aggregate up the interest, TV audience and TV revenue thanks to a much bigger population base than individual countries concerned could manage. This would make it much more likely that the Celtics, Feyenoords or Ajaxes of this world would get richer hence afford better players BUT qualification for the Champs League would come via finishing in the top 3 or 4 of the North Sea League because the Celtics, Feyenoords & Ajaxes would no longer be playing in the Scottish Premier/Eredivisie. Same kind of challenge faced by Everton/Spurs/Liverpool every season. Managing relegation back to the national top tiers would be tricky but not impossible.
======================
Tongue in cheek Rab?
The preferred plan would to play in the national leagues and a midweek european league (on a non qualifying format of course) I suspect. Would be interesting to see if any, or even one, of the national leagues and associations would have the cojones to make it an either/or and if they would retain the right to CL etc qualification in the said national rather than Harlem Globetrotter league Our lot certainly wouldn’t and the MSM would back it all the way.
Scottish fitba needs….well, Scottish fitba.
Just like to say that I too find the tack David Low takes in the podcast somewhat arid. Really good businessman he may be…….I don’t know anything about his acumen in that… but much of what he says is rooted in a tired old model of how the top tier of Scottish football should be i.e. Some team(s) has/have to be dominant. Sport, football in particular, should encompass more than that.
David was extremely sure-footed in his opinions and desires for the future of Celtic (also the team I support) but his views lacked a true vision that would enhance the game in Scotland for all football fans. Of course, it has to be said, neither do I hold my breath for anything creative winging its way from the duds who control the Scottish game from the lofty bunkers at Hampden.
Like many who contribute to this blog, I feel the ball is on the slates until the clubs, SFPL and SFA are brought to heel by our making access to our cash more conditional on there being radical change.
Due to a prolonged illness, I haven’t contributed to these pages in a long while, so I apologise for such a timid and thin re-engagement with much admired ‘friends’.( All made a bit worse by a woozy head, after teeth extractions this morning!)
A thanks to all for the hard work you put into the important work that this blog does.
scapaflow says:
April 7, 2014 at 12:54 pm
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Still a long way to go, but jambos can breath a little easier today
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/latest/ubig-creditors-approve-hearts-shareholding-deal-1-3367638
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Indeed. Its a long way back for the club. But liquidation is looking more likely to be avoided.
The response of the Hearts fans has been responsible and appropriate, seeking to extricate themselves and take responsibility, identifying strong leadership and maintaining a sustained following. The epitome of dignity.
They deserve to dig themselves out of this mess.
Sugar Daddy says:
April 7, 2014 at 1:37 pm
TSFM, as interesting as Low may be, I thought this a poor choice for a podcast. Too Celtic centric, something as a Celtic fan, I thought the blog should try and steer clear of.
Turnbull Hutton? Henry McLeish? Andy Roxburgh?
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SD, I take your point, and whilst I don’t want to get into defending the blog ON the blog, I would point to the fact that Low’s interview has provoked discussion – which is what we hope for with all of our content.
My own view is that although David Low is unashamedly promoting the Celtic cause, there is a message for the whole blog in his narrative.
It is also disturbingly difficult to get people to participate in our discussion. I have a list of polite (and some not so polite) refusals in my out-tray, but we are always open to suggestions. I am pursuing some channels of inquiry as we speak to get a senior Rangers man in front of a mic, and some of the names you mention are on the “invited” list.
Our hope is that in the fullness of time, as we mature and establish further, there will be a queue of people at TSFM central demanding to be heard.
You may be disappointed with the next guest. Clue. He will be associated with Celtic in most people’s eyes, but his views on football on a global scale will perhaps widen a pupil or three 🙂
It was a positive step forward for Hearts today, although it was not helped by late interventions by a couple of fantasist bidders in Pat “the plumber” Munro and Bob Jamieson.
Obtaining the agreement to the share sale by UBIG (49.5%) was the biggest hurdle to be overcome, so that is significant progress in itself.
The Ukio situation was not resolved, as their meeting of creditors did not take place today, although BDO had lengthy discussions with their lawyers.
Statement from FOH
The MSM, almost without exception, is a joke and the ‘media’ in general, with a few notable exceptions, has a propensity for the sensational, even at the so called ‘quality’ end. Filled with half-truths and images that tell part of a story. A few observations from the last couple of days:
Neil Doncaster sitting next to the Easdale brothers at Easter Road on Sunday resulted in predictable indication on here and provided yet more ‘proof’ about which mast his colours were nailed to. The image on the TV only showed only who sat to his right. To his left could have been Turnbull Hutton and the entire board of Raith Rovers. We’ll never know if that was the case and I thought at the time it was deliberately composed that way in order to stir the pot.
Unfortunately my father still buys the Record and I don’t normally go near it because from front, middle to back it’s an embarrassment. Today was an exception and I looked at their coverage of the Leigh Griffiths incident. Griffiths appears to be a bit of an idiot and deserves whatever punishment comes his way but I found the Records reporting to be pretty cowardly. They are right to highlight it but they also chose to deliberately ignore much worse behavior by fans every week. Shining a light on such behavior may force changes for the better in Scottish football and Scottish society. They are not interested in doing this.
However, one story really jumped out this weekend and I instantly thought of our resident Dons fans. Worrying times for them, no doubt. You are in my thoughts. 😉
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/04/irish-farmer-goat-sheep-hybrid-geep
ekt1m says:
April 7, 2014 at 2:19 pm
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I have no wish to defend Leigh Griffiths behaviour or to be accused of ‘whataboutery’, but perhaps someone can explain to me how on earth the ‘Compliance Officer’ can ignore a footballer registered under SFA rules being arrested, charged and found guilty of assaulting not one but two police officers, and not being served with a Notice of Complaint. I can think of other incidences over the past year which I will not go into here.
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I too do not want to defend Griffiths. However, in the interests of justice can Police Scotland press charges against him and ignore everyone else in the pub committing the same offence? What type of message would that send out?
hi Ernie
not tongue in cheek at all … either you have another big league in Europe that operates on a par with England/Spain/Germany etc, with all the attendant upsides (money, higher standard) and downsides (tougher qualification for European footy proper) thus giving its top clubs a realistic shot at the Champs League in terms of standards & resources, or you have a bunch of glorified friendlies called the Cake & Eat It League, which seems a bit pointless
David Low’s comments are not altogether surprising. Football is after all a collection of vested interests, usually pulling in different directions.
My view of this blog though is of a group of people whose instincts are to try to accommodate the aspirations of others as much possible, in the spirit of friendship and compromise.
I do not castigate Low for holding his views, but they do fill me with despair.
to the genetic engineering fan above, the sheep are on fire – geep aren’t hot at all 😉
now if you’ll excuse me i have to clean my wellies and nip over to Easter Road
TSFM says:
April 7, 2014 at 6:06 pm
===================
I would also like to add that as this is a forum for all clubs, the views of Celtic and their fans are as entitled to an airing as any other club. I see people asking for e.g Turnbull Hutton on the podcast and he would certainly be a colourful and interesting choice, but he would also promote specific views, and almost certainly none of them would look at life from a Celtic perspective.
So David Low got his turn and others will get theirs. Can’t see the problem some people have with this at all.
could not see anything other than a return to the past, with RFC* back as the only team capable of providing acceptable competition for Celtic.
As soon as i read this, i knew not to bother with the podcast
Cluster One says:
April 7, 2014 at 7:29 pm
could not see anything other than a return to the past, with RFC* back as the only team capable of providing acceptable competition for Celtic.
As soon as i read this, i knew not to bother with the podcast
_______________________________________________________________________
Maybe you should C1, because your interpretation of what was said is incorrect.
Re yesterday’s cup final.
I watched the whole game including extra time.
The referee was hopeless but I thought equally hopeless to both sides.
incredibleadamspark says:
April 7, 2014 at 6:40 pm
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The MSM, almost without exception, is a joke and the ‘media’ in general, with a few notable exceptions, has a propensity for the sensational, even at the so called ‘quality’ end. Filled with half-truths and images that tell part of a story. A few observations from the last couple of days:
Neil Doncaster sitting next to the Easdale brothers at Easter Road on Sunday resulted in predictable indication on here and provided yet more ‘proof’ about which mast his colours were nailed to. The image on the TV only showed only who sat to his right. To his left could have been Turnbull Hutton and the entire board of Raith Rovers. We’ll never know if that was the case and I thought at the time it was deliberately composed that way in order to stir the pot.
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Perhaps Easdale was the only person in the ground willing to share a pew with mr.Doncaster?
If he’d have chanced to sit next to me at the League cup final, I’m fairly sure I’d have stuck whichever kid had annoyed me the most on the car journey down with the short straw!
I’ve been a Celtic supporter for 50 years and have been away from Scotland for 30 of them; I’ve been following here and on RTC for a couple of years, so am well up with the current state of play.
I listened to David Low’s conversation this morning and have to say, I’m disappointed. His perspective on the strength of competition should Rangers be promoted to the top level seemed to me to completely ignore what that would actually do to competition in the league (not to mention raising the aggression bar). This season, and last, Aberdeen, Motherwell and Dundee Utd have had more realistic opportunities to win, both league games and cups, than at any time over the past 15 years. One of those three teams will finish 2nd and will gain automatic European entry – hopefully allowing some of their better players to remain rather than be seduced by the EPL pound.
I think that is the biggest danger to Scottish football, and its biggest challenge. I was really impressed by Dundee Utd’s second half performance last weekend – they have some fine young players and Scottish football will benefit only if they remain here and at clubs other than mine. The real challenge is getting a level of sponsorship that will allow Aberdeen and the others to retain talent – otherwise we will end up at the level of the FAI (no slight intended).
I’m pretty strongly of the view that Celtic are a Scottish club and I would prefer that they remained in a vibrant and competitive SPFL. I do agree that the leadership of both the league and of the SFA is sorely lacking and that remains the main obstacle to growing the strength of Scottish football.
Maybe you should C1, because your interpretation of what was said is incorrect.
Maybe i should. but for anyone to suggest that TRFC would be the only team capable of providing acceptable competition for Celtic.Is an insult to every team who has played against celtic this season or last season. TRFC would not be any kind of acceptable competition for celtic or any other SPFL team in it’s present form.
Maybe i have just misread the post so apologise and will give the whole podcast a listen 😳
Completely agree and for what it is worth the guy immediately to NDs left was NOT wearing a Rangers tie (may indeed have been a RR tie if such exists). Check Willie Vass’s pictures if you think you might be able to ID the man.
http://willievass.photoshelter.com/gallery-image/060414-Ramsdens-Final/G0000CmrnDTb6hHU/I0000Z_2J3drxYbg
Rabtdog, Ernie
The Cake & Eat It League would I agree be a non starter.
That at various points in the past few years Celtic and in a previous life, Rangers, have declared a preference for leaving Scottish football I think we can take it as read that they are willing to give up the certainty of annual Euro football for the certainty of more money annually in a Cold Aquatic Area of Your Choice League or similar.
I believe such a league would be a good thing for Euro football – a strong Benfica whacking Real’s galacticos or PSV going toe to toe with Bayern in the Allianz Arena would enliven the CL no end. The CL format will need refreshed soon before it turns completely into F1 where the best funded teams literally get a head start.
However, how this can be achieved without destroying the domestic leagues left bereft of their biggest sides does trouble me. Truly a circle requiring squared by sharper minds than mine. The best I can offer is keeping domestic cup access, reserve teams and a pyramid system/play offs for other clubs to climb up too.
TSFM, thanks for your reply. I hope to see a wide range of views as the site grows. On reflection through reading others’ posts, it was the “more of what we had” message & lack of vision that Low espoused that grated.
If you are lining up others that can take a more ecumenical and a far sighted approach then I will be more than pleased. I’m a progressive & always enjoy challenging the status quo or slaughtering the odd sacred metaphorical cow.
To paraphrase Redlichtie, Scottish fitba’ needs a strong does of inventive thinking to re-invent itsel’.
A wee treat for Essexbeancounter before the Institute take him away (again)
http://www.tribunemagazine.org/2014/04/in-search-of-an-honest-accountancy-firm/
woodstein @ 2:00 pm
Heraldscotland
David Murray reveals his profound regret over Rangers deal
Helen McArdle – News Reporter
Original here:- http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/david-murray-reveals-his-profound-regret-over-rangers-deal.23890858
—
On this MSM `thing` above;
Ok – Yes – he probably does `regret` matters, & was `staggered` by what followed. Give him that – believable.
Got a few grouses about this tho – not adding up.
Where did the rest of this `thing`s` content spring from?
Negating FTTT planning? – don`t think so at all – Project Charlotte etc?
“Contractual Obligations and Responsibilities”? – Well, didn`t his people draw up contracts, perform due diligence and so on – and if `advisors` didn’t meet `contractual obligations` couldn`t he have recourse? – and if they did – he`d still have recourse surely against the buying party[s] that failed contractual responsibilities – at the very least have taken action to clear his name – or am I missing something? – Not making sense is that.
As for the `leakage` of confidential information – if there was a case – why this not actioned either [after 3years!] and why focus on external parties?
Any proof for that leakage statement – well none evident from this piece.
And this portrays others at fault – Who initiated this? – Who Planned this?
Just not convincing.
Quite fundamental for SMSM reportage – do they space out copy fillers for given filtered comments – as in dressing up PR – or do they produce what`s said on the tin – aka `News` `Reporter` Was the validity of comments tested or interrogated? Doesn’t appear so.
What`s it going to be Guys – News? – or timed PR spreads to order?
This is a complex story – most yet untold – a few chosen phrases set to now hackneyed background doesn’t cut it – at all. Well, not in my view.