Podcast Episode 3 – David Low

davidLowDavid Low

represents a highly significant component of the history of Celtic FC and consequently a highly significant component of how Scottish Football has panned out in the last 20 years.

As Fergus McCann’s Aide-de-Camp, Low was instrumental in helping him formulate and implement the plans which ultimately allowed control of the club to be wrested from the Kelly and White families. Low also helped McCann to rebuild and regenerate Celtic as a modern football club.

His views are unsurprisingly Celtic-centred, and this interview reveals his ambition for the club to ultimately leave Scottish Football behind. That may or may not be at odds with many of our readers, but the stark analysis of the realities facing football in this country may resonate.

Podcast LogoHe provides a window on the pragmatism of the likes of McCann, Celtic and many other clubs in respect of the demise of Rangers. He pours scorn on Dave King’s vision of a cash-rich Rangers future, and provides little comfort for those who seek succour for our failing national sport, believing that Scotland will find it impossible to emerge from the football backwater in an increasingly global industry.

Agree or not with Low’s prognosis, it is difficult to deny his compelling analysis of our place in the football world.

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Tom Byrne

About Trisidium

Trisidium is a Dunblane businessman with a keen interest in Scottish Football. He is a Celtic fan, although the demands of modern-day parenting have seen him less at games and more as a taxi service for his kids.

3,066 thoughts on “Podcast Episode 3 – David Low


  1. Keith Jackson reporting that Ranger’s season books to go on sale tomorrow, before 120 day review completed.

    It will be very interesting to see what happens next, in this rather odd game of chicken


  2. Wasnt David Low a visitor to Ibrox in his younger days before Fergus came on the scene.


  3. Finloch, Nightterror I actually agree that David Low’s status merits a podcast. There is 10 mins or so if great material there, but the remainder of the material basically has the same thrust as Minty’s moonbeams. It’s a great idea to try and get similar individuals from other clubs to do the same thing too.
    TSFM – the response is extensive precisely because there is so much material and opinion that is clearly not in the interests of Scottish football as a whole, rather it’s blatantly contrary to them. There is excellent reporting there too and your point about his insight into the thinking of the current Celtic board in particular is well taken. Why then is this point set aside so he can talk about what he wants as a fan. I would have liked to know why Celtic never briefed back against the Murray PR machine, especially when Low acknowledged that Celtic’s PR stance was causing them problems. Instead we get most of the time taken up with a fantasy of Celtic leaving Scottish football. Low has no insight into the mechanics of how this would be achieved beyond your average fan, something his analyses demonstrated through its lack of objectivity and clarity, but he is allowed to steer the entire talk this way. It resembled something the Record would have printed 2 years ago about the “probability” of Rangers getting a CVA. What was achieved was a lengthy, uncritical discussion of something that turns on Celtic fans, but sticks two fingers up at everyone else involved in Scottish football. In fact it demonstrated a sense of disdain for other clubs that Celtic fans usually accuse Rangers of having. (Note Low’s Masters of the Universe comments)

    We’ve had disagreements before where I’ve asked what TSFM sees as the end game in fixing Scottish football. So where do you see the end game for Celtic in Scottish football? Is it a worthy goal to see Celtic cherry picked (alone or with Rangers) and moved to England or a euro league? What happens to those left behind? What are the pros and cons? What happens to the national side? You had ample opportunity to use the podcast to begin this debate in earnest, but there was no sign of a non Celtic perspective.


  4. Was there not a comment earlier that Stephen Thomson has voiced the notion that regional euro leagues could develop in 5 years or so and wanted his club ready to be involved ? TSFM is Stephen on your podcast list ?


  5. thequay says:
    April 8, 2014 at 6:12 pm

    He did, but like ptd1978 I’m unclear how that would actually work. does it mean cherry picking the top 4 teams or so? Then what? Are we moving to a franchise system where Scotland would get x franchises? What happens to the clubs left behind, do they become feeders, wither on the vine?

    I’ve long heard folk go on and on about moving to some promised land or other, but nobody has ever been able to tell me how it would actually work, and what benefits and costs might accrue to Scottish Football as a whole.


  6. Don’t know either Scapa. Would be good too hear how someone from a club outwith Glasgow views the possibility. I think we may be missing an interesting point here and that is that a club like Dundee Utd and presumably others are looking beyond the status quo. It’s not just, for the time being at least, a Celtic only thing.


  7. ptd1978 says:
    April 8, 2014 at 5:57 pm

    ‘We’ve had disagreements before where I’ve asked what TSFM sees as the end game in fixing Scottish football. So where do you see the end game for Celtic in Scottish football? Is it a worthy goal to see Celtic cherry picked (alone or with Rangers) and moved to England or a euro league? What happens to those left behind? What are the pros and cons? What happens to the national side? You had ample opportunity to use the podcast to begin this debate in earnest, but there was no sign of a non Celtic perspective.’

    There are a number of points you make I would not disagree with and others that certainly are well worthy of debate.

    Personally I don’t see it as a problem what David Low’s take is on whether Celtic stays or leaves Scotland at some point in the future. It’s his point of view and provides the focus for alternative viewpoints to be expressed and surely that’s what TSFM primarily has to be about.

    I have never felt that this blog is here to solely or primarily to express the view of TSFM and certainly have never felt that constraint. It’s here for open and sometimes passionate discussion on matters that are important to all posters no matter the club they support.

    There are fundamental financial issues that have to be considered in determining what kind and level of football will be played in Scotland whether Celtic stays or goes. This decision may or may not apply also to other clubs and I don’t necessarily restrict that simply to Rangers.

    The floor is now open for others to voice their views on a podcast and anyone with any kind of contact with interesting football figures who has some insight should canvass them or even pressgang them into voicing their thoughts.

    I honestly don’t expect any single individual to arrived with a totally polished final version of what will happen in future but there is a big world out there and changes are needed in the structures of European Football – I have no doubt about that.

    So change could be on the way for some Scottish teams and it doesn’t necessarily spell doom for those left behind and could lead to a more competitive structure here. There are lots of questions that need asked but no instant answers as they will only evolve in response to the changes that come along.

    There is only one certainty and that is that change will happen and we should be discussing how best it can benefit Scottish Football – but not at the expense of any club or their fan base who want to play at another level IMO.


  8. beanos says:
    April 8, 2014 at 5:12 pm
    5 0 Rate This

    the continued demise of MIH is unsurprising. i think the part in the article about the pension scheme is poorly worded. i read it as that without the income from the shopping centres, the sponsoring employer (MIH) will be unable to make extra contributions to the scheme to make up for the deficit.

    i would imagine that the scheme has been in deficit for some time and that it is the ability of the sponsoring employer to meet the liabilities of the scheme that has changed.

    —————-

    Beano’s

    I think you are correct in that part of your interpretation regarding ongoing contributions. The assets within the scheme may or may not have a property element. In general though it would be reasonable to have expected the last 2 years to have produced healthy returns even if the portfolio was of the low risk nature it should have been.

    I have no recollection of seeing any warnings in previous MIH accounts, and if the scheme has been underfunded previously and running at a deficit then there should have been. Especially as it was obvious that MIH trading to a solvent position has not been possible for some considerable time.

    In any event the key is this. The employees who were in the pension scheme are not going to get what they were entitled to . The annual report suggests the most recent actuarial valuation shows a deficit of £22.6 million. This represents a 48% deficit , which is a pretty appalling performance. If MIH hadn’t been “contractually committed ” to making such large EBT payments they might have been able to meet their pension responsibilities.


  9. Was at a lecture at the new Glasgow Caledonian University campus in Manhattan last night to hear Alex Salmond give a talk.

    I have no wish go OT on politics at all, but it did strike me that there are some parallels between the Referendum and the TSFM Bampots’ objectives.

    Voting for independence requires a ‘leap of faith’ into the unknown – to some extent – and acceptance of the known/unknown risks and uncertainty, [and opportunities], to follow.
    But in a democracy we rightly have the choice of maintaining the status quo or pushing for radical change.

    For major change in Scottish football to happen – IMHO – there has to be a leap of faith taken by the chairmen of the 42 senior clubs.
    They have to understand that the status quo is no longer acceptable and that the paying customers want change at the SFA first and foremost.
    The punters don’t have a vote, but money talks.

    Are the Chairmen going to wait until there is eventually such a drop in attendances / financials that they have to take that leap – whether they want to or not ?
    Or is one brave chairman going to speak up ‘soon’ to start the ball rolling – and state that change is long overdue at the SFA ?
    [Being optimistic today ! 😉 ]


  10. Echobhoy

    Change of some sort is obviously required, both within Scotland and within Europe. However, I would hope that we had learnt from the SPL experience, where a few clubs, acting purely from what they saw as their own self interest broke away, the result was hardly a resounding success.

    Managing change across the board won’t be easy, in fact it will be like herding cats, it always is, but, its the best way of building a better footballing future for everyone, surely?

    The first step should be an open, honest dialogue between the Authorities, the Clubs and the Customers (fans) and yes there are a few wee challenges right there :mrgreen:

    It’s not a 5 minute programme, more like 5 or 10 year programme, allowing time for the clubs to prepare for example, but worth doing?


  11. FIFA says:

    April 8, 2014 at 5:48 pm

    Wasnt David Low a visitor to Ibrox in his younger days before Fergus came on the scene.

    _________________________________________________________________

    🙄 What, you mean before he was eight?

    Don’t know what material difference that would make anyway, but the answer is a most definite NO – unless you include OF games.


  12. Maybe Look to the past for what worked or didn`t
    The Big/ Small Club thing is Uefa wide

    That`s why they scrapped the long standing Cup Winners Cup – in favour of the Europa League
    – it favoured larger Clubs [and made Uefa more money]

    The problem with the Cup Winners Cup was it was a straight knockout – and smaller clubs might get one or two games out of it
    – and early in the Season. [Bayern vs Raith Rovers]

    Changing that format to Cup-Winners Leagues – and every Cup Winner [or Runners up] would get at least 6 European Games – with 3 away – that more affordable – spread over the Season – and with a fair chance some Bigger Clubs having a bad season in their domestic league- could still attract serious revenue shared through a staged tournament.- could be interesting fixtures outside the usual fare.

    If that`s not palatable – then some will favour a North Sea League.
    Personally – through the season bi-weekly ferry trips to Oslo, Copenhagen, Amsterdam, Brussels etc may get a bit pricy for many. Although right now mrstwopanda would be glad to have me out of the house every weekend sailing the high seas in a cullender just at the moment. 😉

    I`ll get me Lifejacket 😉


  13. scapaflow says:
    April 8, 2014 at 5:44 pm
    8 0 Rate This

    Keith Jackson reporting that Ranger’s season books to go on sale tomorrow, before 120 day review completed.

    It will be very interesting to see what happens next, in this rather odd game of chicken
    ____________
    RANGERS LAUNCH SEASON TICKET RENEWAL CAMPAIGN

    Rangers legends Johnny Hubbard, Alex MacDonald, Captain Lee McCulloch and young stars Fraser Aird and Calum Gallagher will team up at Ibrox tomorrow to launch the 2014/15 season ticket renewal campaign.

    Daily and broadcast media are invited to attend the photocall and the details are as follows:-

    Date: Wednesday, 9 April 2014

    Time: 1.45 for 2.00pm

    Location: Press Room
    IBROX STADIUM

    Lee McCulloch and Alex MacDonald will be available for interview directly after the photocall.

    ____________
    bit early for season ticket renewal i wonder why :mrgreen:


  14. twopanda says:

    April 8, 2014 at 7:02 pm

    That`s why they scrapped the long standing Cup Winners Cup – in favour of the Europa League
    – it favoured larger Clubs [and made Uefa more money]

    The problem with the Cup Winners Cup was it was a straight knockout – and smaller clubs might get one or two games out of it
    _______________________________________________________________

    I’ll get the Dons contingent on my case here, but what the hell …

    The ECWC was never fancied by the authorities, because except for England and Scotland, very little stock was placed on national cup competitions. Consequently, a few relatively poor teams had some success in it. Rangers reached the final in 1961 and 1967, and a pretty awful Celtic team got to the semis in 1964 – and an improved one in 1966.

    Before Angus shoots me, by the time Aberdeen won it, national cultures had changed somewhat 🙂 , although many observers were still of the opinion that (throughout the life cycle of the ECWC/EC/UC period) the UEFA Cup was the hardest to win because teams who were about to become champions in different countries were competing in it and many teams competing in the EC were champions on a downward slope.


  15. RANGERS LAUNCH SEASON TICKET RENEWAL CAMPAIGN

    No McCoist at the festivities?


  16. You can also renew Celtic SBs online now. No increase in cost from last year…


  17. Glad to see so many are supportive of the view that David Low’s opinions should not be censored on here simply because they are from a Celtic perspective. I am sure TSFM will have a variety of people on the podcasts over the month, and we will all have a chance to agree or disagree with them.


  18. @TSFM McCoist on the Mic taking requests, ‘Simply the best anyone?’, ‘Nah Ally do you know Hit the road jack?’


  19. thequay says:

    April 8, 2014 at 6:12 pm (Edit)

    Was there not a comment earlier that Stephen Thomson has voiced the notion that regional euro leagues could develop in 5 years or so and wanted his club ready to be involved ? TSFM is Stephen on your podcast list ?
    _____________________________________________________________________

    He is on the wish list – although maybe I’d better back off in case he says something ptd1978 regards as subversive 🙂


  20. • PTD1978 says:
    April 8, 2014 at 5:57 pm

    What was achieved was a lengthy, uncritical discussion of something that turns on Celtic fans, but sticks two fingers up at everyone else involved in Scottish football.
    ———————————————-

    Where exactly in the responses to the blog (so far) did you conclude that the podcast turned the Celtic fans on? I, and many others, did not like his dismissing of the smaller teams or his dream of playing outside of Scotland. In many ways, he came across as a little arrogant and what I would expect from a footballing business person. However, I did find his insight interesting and was happy to hear input from the perspective of someone who is or was very close to the Scottish Football Management Machinery.

    While I agree with most of the points you are making, tarnishing all Celtic fans with the same brush and comparing a guy’s dream to a blatant lie, led me to believe you were anti-Celtic; this is ironic considering you are championing an all-inclusive blog.

    I wear Green coloured glasses, of that there is no doubt but they are not so dark that I cannot see for myself and therefore need help from the David Lows of this world to guide me.


  21. Smugas says:
    Cluster One says:
    April 7, 2014 at 8:09 pm

    Nothing more than mischief making – but how come everyone not wearing a rangers tie needed a clip-on ID to get in including Doncaster?
    (I THINK YOU PICKED THE WRONG POST)
    I have made no comments on ties 😕


  22. Summer football, bigger teams having colt teams in the lower leagues, regional pyramid at lower leagues, play offs, sfa and cronies GTF, simplified realistic rules, One video challenge per team per game (like tennis), bring back indirect free kicks in the box for lesser offences, incentives to produce and bring on players under 20, cheaper tickets, Ban on selling burnt pizza…. Sorted.!! 😆


  23. JimBhoy says:
    April 8, 2014 at 7:41 pm

    Summer football, bigger teams having colt teams in the lower leagues, regional pyramid at lower leagues, play offs, sfa and cronies GTF, simplified realistic rules, One video challenge per team per game (like tennis), bring back indirect free kicks in the box for lesser offences, incentives to produce and bring on players under 20, cheaper tickets, Ban on selling burnt pizza…. Sorted.!! 😆

    All good except the participation of colt teams. Too much like two bites of the cherry.


  24. No Ally at ST launch. I hope the invited press will ask why.
    Though I see mcculloch and Alex MacDonald will be answering questions after the launch. I would take MacDonald as manager anyhoos.


  25. I agree with most of PTD1978s post but disagree that it does not belong on here. I’m glad it was as it’s good to hear that arrogance, self-entitlement and a blatant disregard for the rest of Scottish football (diddy teams ffs!) is not exclusive to the team from Ibrox. His view on Celtic and the CL was a particularly hilarious highlight for me. Celtic have the reputation he talks about because of their rock solid Scottish traditions from producing world class Scottish players and being guided by one of the greatest managers of all time. Also a Scot who learned his managerial trade with one of the ‘diddy’ teams.

    The day someone looked at a football top and saw an advertising space was the day the money took over. For me it has completely ruined football and Lows desire to chase it and his belief at what it will bring is pretty depressing but doesn’t surprise me.


  26. upthehoops says:
    April 8, 2014 at 9:28 pm

    Not seen any castigating as you put it, a lot of disagreement, but no monstering that even Alistair Darling could condemn with a straight face :mrgreen:


  27. scapaflow says:
    April 8, 2014 at 9:34 pm
    =======================
    I was going to edit the post then just deleted it in any case because I couldn’t be bothered!


  28. fara1968 says:
    April 8, 2014 at 8:22 pm
    =================
    Why is Alex McDonald going to be at the ST launch? Does he even have a role at Ibrox?


  29. Upthe hoops – wasn’t Alex MacDonald a star with a bigger team at one point? Oh, yes, it was with St Johnstone! That’ll be the reason.

    Scottish football needs a strong Arbroath.


  30. Why is Alex McDonald going to be at the ST launch? Does he even have a role at Ibrox?
    _____________________________________________________
    Perhaps he’s going to be announced as their first manager.


  31. Apologies Cluster One

    I was referring to the post immediately following yours ScottC’s I believe.


  32. JimBhoy says:
    April 8, 2014 at 7:29 pm

    @TSFM McCoist on the Mic taking requests ‘Nah Ally do you know Hit the road jack?’ Shouldnt that be “The Queen’s Highway”?


  33. had a look at the official site for Rangers,seems tickets still available for the semi,no mention of season books going on sale ,or even when they will be going on sale which you would have thought they would have given it a mention,had a glance at a few other items ,strange stuff on there,even a section for season book holders that dont want to go to the rest of the seasons games to donate their book to the armed services,no sh#t sherlock ,an amazing offer,it may be a last 3 game home package that being rolled out tommorow and Ally will be busy with his match preperation to attend so send his captain,but go on and have a wee look at the site.


  34. TSFM says:
    April 8, 2014 at 7:29 pm
    5 1 i
    Rate This
    thequay says:
    April 8, 2014 at 6:12 pm (Edit)
    Was there not a comment earlier that Stephen Thomson has voiced the notion that regional euro leagues could develop in 5 years or so and wanted his club ready to be involved ? TSFM is Stephen on your podcast list ?
    _____________________________________________________________________

    He is on the wish list – although maybe I’d better back off in case he says something ptd1978 regards as subversive
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    We seem to be in a rather sensitive mood today on the blog so I understand your caution vis a vis ptd1978. Even INCREIDBLEADAMSPARK is adding to the controversy by inviting us to decide which of the Pars & the Hibs is a ‘diddy team’ in respect of Mr Stein’s development – ‘ learned his trade with one of the diddy teams’.

    Personally I regard both of these clubs as fine, long standing members of the Scottish fitba fraternity although I’ve only ever made it on to the roof of one of their enclosures.


  35. scapaflow says:
    April 8, 2014 at 5:44 pm
    Keith Jackson reporting that Ranger’s season books to go on sale tomorrow, before 120 day review completed.
    It will be very interesting to see what happens next, in this rather odd game of chicken
    ==================================================
    The chunky chicken will be first to get plucked.

    David Low seems to support success more than he supports Celtic.

    When Alex Smith was with Ross County (I think) he was asked about C and R leaving Scottish football. He was pretty scathing of both teams desire to leave. His opinion was that they were Scottish and that they should remain in Scotland. I agree.

    IMHO Scottish football is on the road to recovery, I’m hoping that DUFC or STJ win the Scottish Cup to continue the sharing of the trophies of the last few years. This recovery will not be helped, advanced or promoted by the present incumbents of the SFA. They’ve proven time and again recently that their purpose is not the betterment of Scottish football, but the advancement of something else entirely. They unfortunately are fit for this purpose. I need an expletive to describe what that organisation is doing to Scottish football.

    This is probably a wee bit OT, I won’t be voting in the independence referendum, not because of apathy (I save that for General Elections) but because we’ll still be ruled by politicians. I don’t know who they work for, but its never the electorate. Unless shackled by a codified constitution properly interpreted by an uncorrupted judiciary they’ll fornicate up the lives of us all.

    Hopefully I can prevent this post being moderated by saying that I feel a similar antipathy towards the SFA for similar reasons.

    We the fans of Scottish Football, in order to form a more perfect sport and
    establish sporting integrity, ensure domestic competition, provide for the defence, midfield and attack of the national team and secure the blessings of an improved TV deal need to ordain and establish a properly run SFA.


  36. Ecobhoy, thanks for taking the time to reply to my post in a such a well crafted and measured way. I’ll freely admit that my abrasive words probably don’t always deserve the courtesy you are kind enough to extend to them.
    I largely agree with a lot of what you say. As a “diddy” team supporter, I can envisage a number of scenarios where Celtic (and Rangers) could leave to play elsewhere and that would be fine. I think there needs to be discussion however on whether Scottish footballs reaction to change needs to be built around allowing Celtic to leave. If Celtic want to go, the onus is on them to find a way to detach themselves in a way that is acceptable to those they no longer want to do business with. I fail to see why anyone who could possibly loose out from Celtic going should in any way help with that process. It’s not just a matter of money, there are a lot of aspects to Scottish football that Celtic take advantage of through being an SFA member. As the agent wanting change Celtic have to find a way to make do without.
    The issues I can think of are as follows. I’m sure there are more.
    1. The Scotland team remains as is. If the SFA were scared to let players play in the 2012 Olympics for fear of UEFA/FIFA using it to force a combined league, then letting any teams compete in a league away from Scotland would bring on serious scrutiny of this situation.
    2. Legacy Scottish teams still have the same route to European football through winning the league, the cup or finishing second or (if we have a good enough co-ef) third.
    3. No colt teams. No competing in cups.
    4. No input into Scottish Football affairs, legal, or financial. You’re out.
    5. Any future UEFA rules regarding benefits of playing homegrown players do not apply to you. You just have none. Don’t bother tapping up and raiding Scottish football if UEFA find a way to overturn Bosman.
    6. Any co-efficient calculation for your team has a zero next to your national team. You leave Scottish football, you don’t have a national team.
    7. Any financial fallout from the separation will be met by the departing teams.


  37. Great to see everyone still at odds, agreeing and quite frankly performing a solid service the the great footballing support of Scotland, been lurking for a while cause I had to rest my gmail account am having back surgery soon and couldn’t be arsed ala LW.
    On the podcast, terrific btw, not for content specifically, but for just asking pertinent questions, that seems to be all we are all asking for, DECENT FRIGGIN JOURNALISM, no favoritism, no secret BS handshakes and agreements, just “Hey you S&!7E-HEAD what the F&%!# you think you’re doin’?”
    that’s all we really want isn’t it? (I blame the morphine!)

    As for D Low, he said time and time again, As a Celtic fan, whats best for Celtic, Fergus would want, the Board would want, the ideal would be….what’s wrong with that?
    Get Mr 120 day review, Get The ever popular and recent cup winning Chairman Mr Hutton and the ever interesting Mr Thompson from Dundee Utd….and let’s hear from Mr Arbroath on their Season ticket initiatives (PAY AS MUCH AS YOU CAN!) That is outstanding btw. he must have some cracking insights and thoughts on a path forward?

    I personally would like to see at CP (as a Exiled Scot in Eire -I got it half right) the option to buy a season ticket, that gives the owner full access to Celtic TV and such so I can see games courtesy of my club rather than dodgy online streaming, yet allow me to allocate the season ticket book held by me (and with the club for pick up) to whomever I please, for any game I cannot make, which would be 99.9% of them, you gotta keep the turnstiles ticking over, keep the seats filled, and maybe make a few new “friends along the way” right?

    anyway going off to pop another dose sorry if your eyes are bleeding. been a while.

    p.s you are all doing great things on here.


  38. Barcabhoy says:

    April 8, 2014 at 6:39 pm

    …”In any event the key is this. The employees who were in the pension scheme are not going to get what they were entitled to . .. If MIH hadn’t been “contractually committed ” to making such large EBT payments they might have been able to meet their pension responsibilities.
    ============================================================================
    Barca…on the money again…!

    Does this not amount to large scale theft from employee pension funds on the same scale as Robert Maxwell? And do I not also recall the pensions industry supposedly having been overhauled to ensure that the plundering by Maxwell and his like would never happen again?

    Never let it be forgotten that the largest beneficiary of the EBT schemes was David Murray himself…remember him…?…the guy who said that he never “took a penny out of Rangers”…?


  39. From Twitter – faintly amusing, and unconfirmed, but only 18% is a surprise. Budget thinking seems less than Murraymintian / Smithsonian adventure.

    Rangers have announced an 18% season ticket increase. "TakingRaith Rovers to extra time doesn't come cheap" insists a club spokesman.— Oldfirmfacts(@Oldfirmfacts1) April 8, 2014


  40. FIFA says:
    April 8, 2014 at 10:17 pm
    =========================
    I could be wrong, but if the Rangers sections for Saturday’s game were heading for a sell out it would already be getting trumpeted from the rooftops of their many media friends. After all that’s been said, how will it be reported if the Dundee Utd sections are packed, and the Rangers sections have noticeable gaps? My view is it simply wont be reported, which is an often used media tool regarding a negative issue about Rangers – simply ignore the issue and any comments people make on it. If it’s not written or spoken about then it just didn’t happen.


  41. essexbeancounter says:
    April 9, 2014 at 12:40 am
    Barcabhoy says:
    April 8, 2014 at 6:39 pm

    …”In any event the key is this. The employees who were in the pension scheme are not going to get what they were entitled to . .. If MIH hadn’t been “contractually committed ” to making such large EBT payments they might have been able to meet their pension responsibilities.
    ==========================================
    Barca…on the money again…!

    Does this not amount to large scale theft from employee pension funds on the same scale as Robert Maxwell? And do I not also recall the pensions industry supposedly having been overhauled to ensure that the plundering by Maxwell and his like would never happen again?

    Never let it be forgotten that the largest beneficiary of the EBT schemes was David Murray himself…remember him…?…the guy who said that he never “took a penny out of Rangers”…?
    —————————————————————————————
    For me the crux of this issue is that Maxwell was allowed to do what he did because of deplorably lax legislation. Maxwell was one of those early pension ‘robber barons’ who realised you could make a killing with a company that was basically bust but had a huge pension reserve to plunder.

    He did so without mercy and with no regard to his employees who were treated as latter-day serfs. Those in a position to stop him were basically too frightened for a variety of reasons from fear of being sacked to much more scary ones.

    Towards the end it was all just being punted on wilder and more desperate Forex wheeling and dealing and IMO the simplest way out for the security services involved and the goverment they worked for was a midnight ‘swim’ from his yacht. I hope he lasted a while watching his luxury yacht sail on without its captain 😆

    The legislation was tightened oif course to prevent a repeat and that is the issue that the SMSM should be digging-into re MIH and its pension pot. Why is its performance so bad and the age-old adage of ‘following the money’ should be fully employed. However we all know that the vast majority of craven cowards within the SMSM will continue to ignore any negative aspects with an Ibrox connection.

    It’s fascinating to ponder exactly what relationship existed between MIH and seemingly large and influential sections of the Scottish Media who appear to have taken a vow of Omerta over the seeming collapse of a flagship Scottish company and its pension fund position.

    From the outside it looks as though there has been little warning of this particular iceberg and so a full enquiry one would think would be warranted to see what went wrong and how legislation can be strengthened to protect employees in future. Will it happen? Of course not!

    I wonder who made-up the pension trustees for the scheme over the years and whether there is anyone there ‘independent’ enough to blow the whistle if that is what is required. Fred the Shred must be wondering why he got drummed-out the Scottish Establishment and publicly dishonoured with medals stripped.

    He obviously failed to realise just how important succulent lamb was to Scottish journos or was he just a convenient outsider patsy to carry the can pour encourager les autres in the City of London?


  42. ecobhoy says:

    April 9, 2014 at 8:31 am

    He (Fred Goodwin) obviously failed to realise just how important succulent lamb was to Scottish journos or was he just a convenient outsider patsy to carry the can pour encourager les autres in the City of London?
    ===========================
    Ecobhoy, I think the “easy” answer is that unlike the cretins in the SMSM, who could be and were, bought by the “most succulent lamb and finest reds”, the global business media simply could not…if only for the scale of meat and drink required to bribe them (and I choose the word “bribe” with the utmost care!)

    Finally, I am not a great admirer of Goodwin’s business methods, but there was certainly an element of making him an example “pour encourager les autres”, as you say.


  43. ptd1978 says:
    April 8, 2014 at 10:47 pm

    I think you have made a number of points that are all worthy of debate and no doubt can be expanded upon especially when we get podcasts providing possibly conflicting viewpoints as to the road which faces Scottish Football.

    The biggest problem of course in looking at the detail of any club moving from Scotland is it all depends on the mechanism that is used and I don’t think one currently exists. Wrt Celtic possibly the most viable current option would be a move south but I can’t see the support swallowing a start in the lowest rungs in the English Game to begin their climb to the land of milk & honey which might have soured before Celtic get there.

    Personally I have yet to decide where I stand in this argument and I freely admit to having changed position on the issue and no doubt will continue to do so as matters develop and I do believe that this is more likely than not over the next decade.

    I’ll make a few observations on the points you make but I would stress this is all very early days and I would caution against adopting entrenched-positions based on very little factual info.

    1. The Scotland team remains as is.
    A1: That might be a decision that is taken from us even without any team leaving unless Scotland becomes independent and as a NO supporter that’s too high a price for me 😯

    2. Legacy Scottish teams still have the same route to European football through winning the league, the cup or finishing second or (if we have a good enough co-ef) third.
    A2: I genuinely feel doing well in Europe for any Scottish team is going to get harder because of lack of cash in our game and reaching the group stages, even for Celtic, is not a ‘given’ and would create a financial hole.

    3. No colt teams. No competing in cups.
    A3: I actually believe that genuine colt teams could be good for Scottish Football but I believe they would need to be strictly ring-fenced from the ‘Big Team’ no matter where it is based.

    4. No input into Scottish Football affairs, legal, or financial. You’re out.
    A4: That I’m afraid smacks of a ‘punishment’ for daring to have the ambition to leave for a bigger stage. It would be a terrible waste to wilfully throw away all the experience and knowledge that a team could impart and import into the Scottish Game. I have always seen that apect especially in youth development as a ‘price’ a breakaway team should be happy to pay-back to Scottish Football.

    5. Any future UEFA rules regarding benefits of playing homegrown players do not apply to you. You just have none. Don’t bother tapping up and raiding Scottish football if UEFA find a way to overturn Bosman.
    A5: Again there is a ‘punishment’ aspect to this which would not only hurt the breakaway club but also plenty of home-grown Scottish players who have a legal and moral right to ply their trade at the highest level if they are good enough. Obviously a realistic development cost must be paid.

    6. Any co-efficient calculation for your team has a zero next to your national team. You leave Scottish football, you don’t have a national team.
    A6: Again this not only ‘punishes’ the breakaway club but the national team and Scottish players who want to play for their country. I am sure that this aspect and other ones you mention would be regarded as illegal under EC Law.

    7. Any financial fallout from the separation will be met by the departing teams.
    A7: A lot of this debate is about money and therefore a departing team should make a fair contribution and I would like to see this in terms of a continuing commitment again with the focus on development and not as some sort of cash-cow to sustain clubs who aren’t managing their financial affairs effociently.

    I am sure this topic will be returned to often but I hope it can be done with a positive approach to actually attempt to strengthen Scottish Football rather than casting a prodigal son into the wilderness with no hope of a welcome return home.

    Just think of the experience these players could bring back to Scotland as coaches and managers and even as players. For me that is the key: We either search for all the negative aspects or we look for ways to enhance the whole of Scottish Football.

    Scotland has a tiny population and if we are to get back to punching above our weight in world football terms we have to become very inventive at creating income and interest or we will slowly die and that process has started. IMO we don’t have the option of sitting inside a Scottish enclave and hoping things will keep on drifting along.

    We have to engage with a growing commercialisation of our sport but somehow ensure that sporting integrity is maintained – although that is currently all but destroyed and we desperately need a clear-out at Hampden. The world outside is changing and if we don’t adopt the best of these changes and adapt them to fit with Scottish aspirations then our national sport will be replaced by a new one IMO.


  44. ptd1978 April 8, 2014 at 5:57 pm

    Finloch, Nightterror I actually agree that David Low’s status merits a podcast. There is 10 mins or so if great material there, but the remainder of the material basically has the same thrust as Minty’s moonbeams. It’s a great idea to try and get similar individuals from other clubs to do the same thing too.
    TSFM – the response is extensive precisely because there is so much material and opinion that is clearly not in the interests of Scottish football as a whole, rather it’s blatantly contrary to them.

    I thought some of the more unhinged fantasy in Low’s comments was what made it interesting. The point of an interview is not to argue with or re-educate the interviewee but to make them feel at ease so that they express themselves fully. A bit of prodding or challenge to make them clarify or elaborate where required. Getting into an argument will just shut down the interviewee and make sure you get no more interviews from anyone else.

    A bit like Tom English’s interviews with Craig Whyte, the important thing is to get the interviewee to say something interesting and reveal something of themself. Let them hang by their own words rather than punch them in the face with yours. I thought English did that very well with Whyte and the interviewer of Low did pretty well too.


  45. Rangers season book renewals?

    Calling Dave King, calling Mr King?

    Hello? Is anybody there? Mr King, are you there?


  46. passing thought: the whole business about North Sea leagues, expanded transnational club football & ‘something for the big-fish-small-pond brigade’ may become moot if the international organisation of football runs into a brick wall in the near future… FIFA might be okay with Brazil in the summer but Russia in 2018 then Qatar in 2022 could prove breaking points in terms of what sponsors, fans, TV companies and even law enforcement will tolerate… FIFA’s future then becomes indeterminate with possible knock-on effects for UEFA and national assocs… What we take for granted as fixed and eternal now may not be inside eight years…


  47. @SCOTTC

    All good except the participation of colt teams. Too much like two bites of the cherry.
    ===========================================================================

    Colt teams imo would bring much more revenue to the lower leagues, it would give the younger boys real competition against tough opponents. It would allow fans who cant make the First team games to see the product of the youth system. I do not see any negative in having this set up which is used all over the world successfully… Thanks for taking time to reply.


  48. Barcabhoy says:
    April 8, 2014 at 6:39 pm

    I couldn’t agree more that its a scandal that some members will not get the benefits they are entitled to. a 48% deficit is ridiculous and you are right should definitely be in the accounts. With that level of underfunding, the members would be better off with MIH going bust and the pension scheme would enter the PPF. That way the pensioners should get 100% of their entitlement and the members yet to retire at least 80%.
    This slow death of MIH benefits nobody other than the bank and the Murray family.
    I actually think that the pension schemes should be protected prior to an insolvency event occuring. Using Worthington and the Jerome Group Pension Fund as an example. There were more assets in the pension scheme than the company had themselves which made it ripe for spivs to extract money from it.


  49. Ecobhoy.
    “Scotland has a tiny population and if we are to get back to punching above our weight in world football terms we have to become very inventive at creating income and interest or we will slowly die and that process has started. IMO we don’t have the option of sitting inside a Scottish enclave and hoping things will keep on drifting along.

    We have to engage with a growing commercialisation of our sport but somehow ensure that sporting integrity is maintained – although that is currently all but destroyed and we desperately need a clear-out at Hampden. The world outside is changing and if we don’t adopt the best of these changes and adapt them to fit with Scottish aspirations then our national sport will be replaced by a new one IMO.”
    ===================================
    aka armageddon if Celtic don’t get a cake and eat it exit?


  50. Clyde SSB.

    What can you say.

    The opening shots last night were as follows.

    Jim Delahunt:- “A really big game coming up for Rangers at the weekend. Yes we know it’s a neutral venue, but Rangers will be in front of their own fans” (eh?)

    Roger Hannah:- “That could work against Rangers. Their fans could put pressure on and make them nervous”. (that, after SSB pundits told us for weeks home advantage was one of the reasons why Rangers would beat Dundee Utd).

    Fraser Wishart:- “Rangers should beat Dundee Utd. on Saturday. We talk every night about the good players they have, most of them internationalists”. (but no mention of their struggles every week against part time players).


  51. JimBhoy says:
    April 9, 2014 at 10:29 am

    @SCOTTC

    All good except the participation of colt teams. Too much like two bites of the cherry.
    ===========================================================================

    Colt teams imo would bring much more revenue to the lower leagues, it would give the younger boys real competition against tough opponents. It would allow fans who cant make the First team games to see the product of the youth system. I do not see any negative in having this set up which is used all over the world successfully… Thanks for taking time to reply.

    —————————————————————–

    Can’t go along with that I’m afraid.

    You know what’s great about supporting a club outwith the top division?

    Every season you start with no idea how your team is gong to do and can’t be sure which teams will be promotion or relegation candidates (TRFC aberration excepted).
    Look at Ross County flirting with relegation from the First the year before they ran away with the division, or Morton this season compared to last for example.

    I for one don’t want the distracting sideshow of pretendy versions of “big” teams (Rangers and Celtic perchance?) patronising us with their presence and distorting real competition just so that we can be sparring partners for the benefit of others with more players than sense.


  52. Ecobhoy
    Interesting comments. It’s good to see thinking about this from a different perspective.
    I have to say that I’m not entirely decided on the whole independence issue, but the possibility of losing the Scottish national team would force me into voting yes. I’ll say no more on that as it has the potential to sidetrack the discussion.
    The other measures are not aimed at punishing, but at protecting. Celtic and Rangers currently have overwhelming influence within Scottish football. It is unlikely that this will change if they are allowed to move their first teams to another association, but remain engaged in Scottish affairs. As they grow financially and dominate the back pages even more than now, the whole league would be in danger of becoming a feeder entity.
    The national team and the SFA are like it or not inextricably linked. If you resign from the SFA, you can’t keep the links to the national side. If you try to remain in the SFA and form a team in another association, it could easily be used as a wedge to destroy Scottish football. The only way to protect the teams remaining in the Scottish league is to try to do a Berwick.
    I can’t see why any of the above would be illegal. As a business Celtic can get up and go tomorrow if they want, they just can’t compel any other clubs to join them. Similarly they can’t compel the SFA or UEFA to do a thing. Legality isn’t the issue, unless Celtic can come up with an argument that allows them to force the SFA and UEFA to give them very special treatment.
    I can’t agree with your argument about preventing players competing at the top level either. Frankly I believe Scottish football would thrive without the economic imbalance of the big two. We would already see more access to Europe (the OF contribution to the coefficient created never created more than two extra places, but they almost always took two spots out of play for every other team) and over a long period of time we should begin to see longer European runs again. Challenging to win is unrealistic, but maybe the odd trip after Christmas would happen. Contrast this with the situation Celtic would be in. Growing as a business, but possibly not challenging for Europe too often. If they are successful I can see challenges from English clubs about their terms of admission. Especially if they begin to use a colt team to bring through players, or to sell and then spend on the EPL team. The only way I can see to avoid that is a complete move, Celtic and Rangers will be Scottish teams only in that their games will be played in Scotland.


  53. Kicker Conspiracy says:
    April 9, 2014 at 11:20 am
    =======================
    Good post, I agree. The con in Scottish fitba is that it is all about “big” teams. If we were to have colt teams why not Barcelona or Man City? What about Chelsea, they have 26 players out on loan at the moment anyway? Nah, keep the harlem globetrotter competitions I’d rather have fitba.


  54. Colt teams wouldn’t bring in more revenue, they would just divert it towards the big clubs. Any uptick in attendance would be cancelled out by the drop in support of the team playing them, the loss of two teams who would otherwise be in the league and the crazy kickoff times that would be forced on them so four OF teams could be policed every week and so that really keen fans would have a chance to watch both of their teams. If teams want to sign up the best talent at a young age, either play them in the top team when your 20 points clear, or loan them out and give them an idea of what football is like at the other end of the privilege spectrum.


  55. Kicker Conspiracy says:
    April 9, 2014 at 11:20 am

    I for one don’t want the distracting sideshow of pretendy versions of “big” teams (Rangers and Celtic perchance?) patronising us with their presence and distorting real competition just so that we can be sparring partners for the benefit of others with more players than sense.
    ————————-
    KC,

    My Interest is even more base (call it selfish if you like) than that. If a fan from greater glasgow fancies taking in a game whilst kicking his heels in between the proper football on a wednesday night, music, fanfare, playacting and all, I’d like him/her to do that to the benefit ideally of all, or selfishly just to others, than take the ‘lazy’ option and continue to exclusively support his/her own.

    Why do I say this? I’m sure the thumbsdowners will have immediately reacted to the greater glasgow comment. We have fans all over they’ll cry. OK, imagine a scenario in 20 years when you’re (still) european cannon fodder, and the Scottish league – perhaps on a commercial scale comparable to Ireland although I personally doubt it – is competitive as hell. Will you still have the commercial pulling power? This generation yes, no arguement. But next? And beyond?

    I have a very strong suspicion that the fathers and sons would go along to their local team of a saturday and ‘support*’ their big team (where have we heard that before) on a European night.

    As Eco says, what if they play golf instead? Is that worse than accomodating “pretendy versions of big teams?” Especially if their financial muscle (from Europeean TV) is brought to bear on the rest of us once more?

    * the key is the word support as used above. Do they attend the CL match and give it large thus having less money to spend at the weekend, or do they buy the cheap chelsea shirt and watch it on the TV the same as the rest of us. And of course that principle applies to the fans of the diddies should the situation above present itself as well – continue to serve up expensive drivel, or even worse allow a new ‘old firm’ domination to establish and frankly they deserve everything they’d get.


  56. GW asked for the 120 days review at the agm on 19th dec which was approved, that is up on 18th of this month.
    Will we (or the bears) see something on the 19th or will he need additional time to compile whatever he found?
    10 days and counting…..


  57. As a Celtic supporter, I have to say that I view Celtic going to join the English leagues, in much the same way as I viewed Hooper going to Norwich. Quite simply, I thought he went for the wrong reasons. Now I don’t decry Hooper for accepting a much improved salary. It is a short career, and he is entitled to earn as much from it as he can.
    I just don’t see my club as that.
    If the Celtic board want to increase competition, to improve their chances in Europe, then they should be looking for ways to improve the Scottish game. It was Scotland that made us.
    The talent drain to the south, even to the championship must also be addressed. There is no doubt some foreign players use Scotland as a stepping stone to their dream move south. There is no harm in that. But the players contracts must be re-thought..
    Like Scotland made Celtic, then the Scottish selling team made the player. Higher percentage sell on fees from future clubs should be demanded to limit English clubs cherry picking. Possibly even a salary percentage should be written into their contracts, forcing English (or whoever) clubs to offer decreased salaries to keep percentages down, or offer the higher salary overhead, to the benefit of the selling club. Much like the age restricted, player improvement fees, but in extreme.!
    If players coming to Scotland don’t want to sign up to it, then don’t come. Local boys will happily play under those terms, and in most cases, be glad to see the club who gave them the chance rewarded, should they move on.
    A tax on funds received this way could be imposed by the SFA. (not the dross we have currently in situ), and put to good use.
    Where there is a will, there is a way. Celtic should knock this stupid idea on the head.
    Let FIFA change THEIR CL rules if they want, to an equitable system of one national Champion, one entrant, and defending champion, or let it become the four nation league, with diminished interest.
    Why even attempt to clean up our own game, for the chance to compete in a rigged one.?
    We should concentrate on our own game. If it brings success in Europe, Brilliant ! If it doesn’t, who cares. ! As long as we enjoy it.


  58. Alan Price says:
    April 9, 2014 at 10:39 am
    17 0 i
    Rate This

    Clyde SSB.

    What can you say.

    The opening shots last night were as follows.

    Jim Delahunt:- “A really big game coming up for Rangers at the weekend. Yes we know it’s a neutral venue, but Rangers will be in front of their own fans” (eh?)

    Roger Hannah:- “That could work against Rangers. Their fans could put pressure on and make them nervous”. (that, after SSB pundits told us for weeks home advantage was one of the reasons why Rangers would beat Dundee Utd).

    Fraser Wishart:- “Rangers should beat Dundee Utd. on Saturday. We talk every night about the good players they have, most of them internationalists”. (but no mention of their struggles every week against part time players).

    ——
    I don’t think this will come as a surprise to anybody but Clyde SSB is not there for any reason other than pandering to TRFC fanbase, they make money from wound up Celtic fans occassionally but in the main it is sad deliriously happy and just delirious TRFC support.
    There was a method to listen online and a couple of years ago my early evenings were entwined with that dogsh1te of a show,
    On WAY too many occassions such logic as above, opinion, rationale and favourtism were displayed as insightful punditry. A mate at work does a far better job at winding me up than ClydeSSB but at least he smirks when he does so, the only difference being we cannot see them smirk on the radio.
    I see a great deal of people on here and on Twitter to be fair who get it, Clyde SSB should actually be on “the rangers” podcast website.
    But some still don’t (I am not saying you don’t AP – just that you encapsulated the BS perfectly) get it, they phone in, they give themselves up to ridicule, ignorance and the shameful behaviour of the “rapeeplesradiostation”.
    Listen but listen like someone’s telling you a joke, becasue that is all the show is. The indiginous American people had a saying “White man speaks with fork tongue” he sure does Hiawatha.
    Happily, ClydeSSB has contribited mightily to the confusion, desperate, delusional position the TRFC fans find themselves. They are as culpable of misdirection and support for the goings on of the RIFC board as the RIFC board themselves, ClydeSSB COULD have been a champion for the clumpany to raise the hackles of the fans, to engage/suggest fan action to sort this out, they didn’t they are and were complicit in their inaction. 🙂


  59. I see there has been some more chat on the MIH pensions issue. I said I would return to the matter, so here goes.

    Firstly, I would warn that there is a lot of speculation, and very little hard fact. If someone can point me in the direction of the latter, I would appreciate it.

    The BBC article seems to suggest that the sale of part of the Murray Group’s property portfolio will impact the ability of the company to meet its pensions obligations. No such conclusion is drawn in the Herald article.

    If the BBC’s article is to be believed, then at face value, Murray Group should have approached the Pensions Regulator for clearance for such a transaction to take place. Maybe they did and maybe it was granted. I have no access to any of the pension scheme documentation, but I see a deficit of 48% is being quoted. Does that equate to a funding level of 67.5%? A bit on the low side, perhaps. Whose basis is this? What were the comparable figures for the previous period?

    Of course, for schemes whose sponsoring employer is facing difficulties, there is a bit of a double whammy at play.

    Firstly, the trustees are likely to adopt a less risky investment policy – de-risking from equities into bonds, and not only missing out on some of the returns from a bull-market, but reducing expected returns long term.

    Secondly, they are likely, in view of the weakening of the employer’s covenant, to adopt more prudent assumptions when valuing their liabilities.

    This is likely to exacerbate the effect of any deterioration in the funding position caused by declining bond yields, and, yes, from improvements to mortality. (As an aside, any trustees making the assumption that there will be no future improvements to mortality, let alone that mortality has not improved in recent years, are likely to be invited by the regulator to explain their position. Remember we will be comparing assumptions with those made 3 years ago. Mortality improvements have averaged 2-3% p.a. for years, decades even.)

    So all in all, a decline in any pension scheme’s funding level triennium on triennium is perfectly possible even for a well-managed scheme.

    Presumably, previous MIH accounts will have stated the funding position of the scheme, albeit on the employer’s basis. Members will get annual funding updates. Thus I’m not aware that there has been any breach of disclosure or accounting requirements – in other words, you wouldn’t expect to see “risk warnings”. Now the employer is suddenly in trouble, and this means any creditors, such as the bank, and the pension scheme, may not get what they are due. However, this is a common scenario – there must be 900 or so other companies which have gone bust whilst unable to settle their defined benefit pension obligations in recent years. Unfortunate, yes. Evidence of malfeasance? Not necessarily.

    The industry has held the belief that none of the legislation introduced after the Maxwell scandal (and I believe all his pension scheme members received their benefits in full) would have prevented what happened in the case of Captain Bob. However, it does make it harder and many other protections were introduced. There are disclosure and whistle-blower requirements, and a specialist regulator has been created. If the MIH scheme was poorly funded, then it would already have attracted regulatory attention. Professional advisors would be obliged to report any evidence of wrong doing, which would again alert tPR.

    Entering the PPF is a possibility. However, within the PPF benefits are capped, and restricted. If the MIH scheme offers generous benefits, it may be in the members’ interests to compromise their benefits in order to help the company survive, and still receive better benefits than they would get from the PPF.

    However, as I said, in the absence of hard fact, this is all speculation


  60. @Kicker Conspiracy

    If we all agreed the blog would be a boring place.. 😀
    You are always going to have better supported teams than others. Teams with more resources. I would suggest that the bigger team’s colt boys would be a good scalp to take in the lower leagues and would add an incentive that probably rangers have added the past 2 seasons. These colt teams would also probably be adequately supported adding a financial plus that could then lead to a bit more prosperity amongst the smaller clubs….. Just my thoughts, thanks for your reply,


  61. Corrupt official says:

    April 9, 2014 at 12:47 pm

    As a Celtic supporter, I have to say that I view Celtic going to join the English leagues, in much the same way as I viewed Hooper going to Norwich.
    __________________________________________________

    Has anyone considered voting yes on 18 September if for no other reason, to end the speculative debate of Scottish clubs being admitted into another association? I presume teams from an independent country could never be admitted to another country’s association leagues?

    The only reason that a Scottish club would be admitted to an English league is if their presence added to the gross revenue and net profit of said league. Similarly the formation of an Atlantic league or any other concocted association would be done for the purpose of profit.

    We are a disparate bunch on here but there’s a few principles we can get behind and one of them is that the profit principle and need to spend to compete has brought us to a place that leaves much to be desired. For example, it killed Rangers FC stone dead.

    So no, I would not want my club to play Liverpool, Charlton, Crewe Alexandra, Benfica or anyone else in place of the current Scottish national League.

    Scottish football needs a strong Scottish Football


  62. @INDY14 Beats me why anyone would listen to that nonsense never mind phone in..If everybody stops, it will go away.. If only rangers fans call in to hear nice although disingenuous things about their club then it will soon become more of a bore-fest than I already assume it is. Is it Keevens who is often on that show, how anyone could listen to that man is beyond me, check his piece in the DR today on Ally and big Jock.. In fact don’t waste your time total and utter drivel…


  63. Big Gunning to score a header on Saturday where he puts the ball and Bell into the net.. Divine justice. 😆


  64. Has anyone considered voting yes on 18 September if for no other reason, to end the speculative debate of Scottish clubs being admitted into another association? I presume teams from an independent country could never be admitted to another country’s association leagues?
    ================
    Funnily enough I would vote YES in September even if the government guaranteed 100% Celtic would be admitted to the EPL if I voted NO.

    I have seen a few commnets re independence on this site and tied into football arguments, Scotland’s independence should not be glibly tied to a game of football, it means way too much for that.
    I vote YES for fottball integrity
    I vote YES for Football transparency
    I vote YES to get rid of Campbell Ogilvie
    I vote YES to get rid of Stewart Regan
    I vote YES to get rid of Neil Doncaster
    I vote YES to this website
    And I would be voting YES in September if I was allowed. (I live in Ireland and can’t but I cross everything for a YES because controlling your own countries destiny and the confidence a people gets from its own identity is only enhanced by Independence)
    The independent nature of a country would not limit access to other associations, it wouldn’t be any harder, because as a UNITED KINGDOM we can’t see it happening so how would being independent make it any harder??


  65. JimBhoy says:
    April 9, 2014 at 1:39 pm
    1 0 i
    Rate This

    Aye agreed
    that sinus challenged labradoodle is a huge wart of the arse of scottish football reporintg no doubt


  66. JimBhoy says:

    April 9, 2014 at 1:39 pm

    @INDY14 Beats me why anyone would listen to that nonsense never mind phone in..If everybody stops, it will go away..
    _______________________________________
    Broadcast and print media have some decisions to take regarding their strategy to win audiences. Without audiences there is no revenue, no profit and no business. A legitimate strategy is controversy. So we have Talk Radio, Jeremy Kyle, Springer etc.

    The reporting of the death of Peaches Geldof referenced a creature called Katie Hopkins who apparently has no other public purpose than to generate obnoxious (controversial) opinions on talk shows, twitter and other pointless outlets. Her job title could well be controversialist. But the point is that her customer base exists and her revenue is generated by spouting anything that is the opposite of worthwhile, compassionate, considered and long held.

    Yes, just stop and they will go away. But there is a demographic out there who ensures they are fed and prosper. Shameful indictment of society we live in, maybe Armageddon wouldn’t be a bad thing, can’t see any of our rent a mouths being any use in a post apocalyptic world.


  67. indy14 says:
    April 9, 2014 at 12:50 pm
    17 0 Rate This

    Alan Price says:
    April 9, 2014 at 10:39 am
    17 0 i
    Rate This

    Clyde SSB.

    What can you say……..
    ///////////////////////////////////////
    I would say this. Don’t listen. The ratio of ex RFC(IL) employees is a joke. Thank god, unlike the BBC, we don’t pay for this service. This is indeed the worst football show I have ever listened to. Then again I may be biased. Me and Mrs Fara once had to leave All Bar One in Glasgow due to the aggressive attention of one of the shows well oiled outstanding citizens.


  68. McCaig`s Tower says:
    April 9, 2014 at 1:26 pm

    some interesting thoughts.

    I don’t have a copy of the latest MIH accounts to verify any of the speculation. However, if there is a significant deficit then i think we can all accept that there is no prospect of the sponsoring employer being able to cover it. The chances of the company even returning to profit seem slim, let alone making years of profit enough to cover the deficit.

    Having never seen the scheme rules or any Annual Reports, i don’t know what the scheme benefits are like. One thing i’m fairly certain of though is that there will be a very generous Directors section to which the likes of Mr Murray (he gets no Sir from me) will no doubt belong.


  69. Fara1968 – i hope you & Mrs Fara1968 escaped AllBarOne without any injured vertebrae – which is more than Bobby Clark managed in the 1978/79 League Cup final. Or was it another Radio Clod SSB luminary who was hassling you?


  70. @ rabtdog
    Bobby Clark, was it DJ who “collided” with him and injured his back? No it wasn’t him. I don’t think I can say who it was. I may have the full power of a trade union body on me if I was to mention his name, if you get my drift.


  71. JimBhoy says:
    April 9, 2014 at 1:41 pm

    Big Gunning to score a header on Saturday where he puts the ball and Bell into the net.

    In my best Eric Morecambe impression (touches spectacles to bridge of nose)- “just not necessarily in that order!!!”


  72. Looks like UEFA like our referees 😉

    http://malagacf.diariosur.es/noticias/2014-04-09/partido-sepulto-trio-escoceses-20140409.html

    SERGIO CORTEZ | MALAGA .. –
    Continued on the group of elite UEFA referees, among the top 24, but that seems more for the weight of his protector, Hugh Dallas, akin to the almighty Pierluigi Collina. Borussia Dortmund-Málaga buried Craig Thomson and his assistants, Derek Rose and Alasdair ‘Ally’ Ross. The latter was excluded immediately from the World Cup in Brazil after the wrongdoing to all-white, and the appointment of the other two tested soon also going to stay out of the big event, as SUR increased by 17 November.

    UEFA brashly jumped on the arbitrator in Dortmund. Thomson was not, even remotely, one of the best, but probably thought that after the first leg 0-0 and given the difference between the two teams-should not forget that the German Bundesliga side had won the previous two seasons- I was going to be a comfortable match. This was expressed by international exárbitros Malaga, Antonio Martin Navarrete and Antonio Jesús López Nieto, after the Málaga robbery. They stressed that it was a low-level arbitration and nothing commensurate with the importance of the meeting.

    The disastrous performance of the Scottish trio did not fall on deaf ears and led to severe punishment from UEFA. Attendees stopped intervening in important games. One happened to accompany a second tier Scottish referee (so-called ‘First Group’), Robert Madden, and the other had to be content with fourth official. Regarding Thomson, stopped receiving parties upscale clubs or teams. By December I had to settle for the consolation prize of three games at the World U-17 (including final), along with a friendly (Belgium-France), a party in August ‘play-off’ of the Europa League and nothing flashy Austria Vienna to Porto in the Champions League. His farewell to the World and shouted caserísima is true that his work did not go unnoticed in Dortmund worldwide, but also should be noted that Thomson was always well below at least a dozen European elite colleges, including Spanish Velasco Carballo and Undiano Mallenco.
    Thomson remains in the group of elite UEFA referees, but to the gallery gesture seems that in the first four months of competition only highlights his appointment for a leg of knockout phase of the Europa League, Chernomorets- Olympique Lyon on 20 February. And, of course, with two assistants, Alan Mulvanny and Damien McGrath. No sign of his henchmen in Dortmund, Rose and Ross. Now protected from Hugh Dallas to William Collum called Collina.

    To the memory of Thomson’s performance at the Signal Iduna Park is the goal that eliminated Malaga, to approve two offsides, first in the center (with four players who could get them the ball in position offside) and then in the end (between Central and Santana the line there was only one player malaguista, Antunes). But for the UEFA weighed the overall balance of the arbitration work: cowardice to not expel Schmelzer after an elbow off the ball to Jesús Gámez; conniving with a second admonition Bender; invent a lack of Toulalan in the final minutes when the French had been beaten (after he was injured), and, above all, the demise down the stretch, when the Scot ‘swallowed’ the whistle and allowed the junking of Malaga base pushes speeding. Because if something Mismatch staff members is that if there is any trick used to stop play, Thomson have also looked the other way. So the party buried the career of a Scottish Arbitration whose name it the malaguismo lifetime will remember.

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