Podcast Episode 4 – Turnbull Hutton

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Podcast Episode 4 – Turnbull Hutton

 

Turnbull Hutton

Turnbull Huttonis the chairman of Raith Rovers. He has been lauded by TSFM readers as a man of courage and integrity who shares our views about the game – and who has never shirked away from calling out those who don’t.

But what motivated him to take on the largely thankless challenge of devoting himself to his local team?

What are his plans for Raith Rovers? What are his views on the SFA, League reconstruction, Armageddon, and a whole load of other things.

Not to mention the savouring of a still-fresh recent cup win.

It would I think, take an earthquake of Jovian dimensions to disconnect Hutton’s connection to terra-firma. Born and brought up in Burntisland, he is wedded to plain speaking and of course to Raith Rovers.

My sense is of a man who eschews the Scottish Football Blazer culture, who is instinctively suspicious of politicians and other bandwagon jumpers, and who has a sense of optimism about the future of our game.

Like many other directors at clubs across the country, he and his colleagues are often required to dig deep into their own pockets to keep their clubs alive, their sole reward being the satisfaction of doing so (and the occasional cup win!).

Before retirement he was joint managing director of Diageo Operations Scotland, and in that role he helped facilitate the Bells sponsorship of Scottish football.

Just short of buying a Rovers Season ticket, I couldn’t have been more charmed, but had I expected a dewy eyed idealist with zealot’s agenda over the sins of the authorities, I would have been wrong.

Hutton is very much  pragmatist. He knows exactly what has gone wrong, but feels that the game most urgently needs some of Auldheid’s “Truth & Reconciliation” before it can sort itself out.

Hutton is a somewhat reluctant hero. He is flattered when I tell him of the regard he is held in here, and complimentary about the level of debate on TSFM, where is a regular reader .

When I spoke to Turnbull at his Edinburgh home, I was treated to a warm welcome by him and his wife Margot, as well as coffee, biscuits, chat, and a lesson in the dynamics of running a championship club; from leading a debt-ridden Rovers into profit last year, to the dilemmas inherent in boardroom redecoration 🙂

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About the author

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Big Pink administrator

Big Pink is John Cole; a former schoolteacher based in the West of Scotland, He is also a print and broadcast journalist who is engaged in the running of SFM . Former gigs include Newstalk 106, the Celtic View, and Channel67. A Celtic fan, he is also the voice of our podcast initiative.

738 Comments so far

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ecobhoyPosted on2:05 pm - May 10, 2014


upthehoops says:
May 10, 2014 at 12:23 pm
ecobhoy says:
May 10, 2014 at 10:53 am

For Rangers to rebuild to the level of Celtic will take a complete change in mindset for all concerned, including the support. At the moment success and being above Celtic has to be achieved yesterday and nothing else will suffice. Many recent comments from Dave King and Ally McCoist back up those views. The fact the media portrayed the view for so long that Rangers were bigger than they actually are, and that David Murray was a business genius, has created an illusion that will not be undone quickly.
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Agree with everything you say and it doesn’t matter who the Bears decide to back unless there is a mindset change and a dropping of cultural baggage which is totally irrelevant to football IMO.

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ecobhoyPosted on2:08 pm - May 10, 2014


To all posters who have kick-started my memory banks

Thanks – I thought I had seen Baxendale commenting somewhere that his EBT instructions hadn’t been followed at Rangers.

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upthehoopsPosted on2:14 pm - May 10, 2014


ecobhoy says:
May 10, 2014 at 2:05 pm
========================
The cultural baggage is an issue without a doubt. It is noticeable to me that since the 2012 implosion there is an ever more extreme hard core attached to the place now. It’s believed around 9K of their season ticket holders did not renew following liquidation. What type replaced them?

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ianagain

ianagainPosted on2:17 pm - May 10, 2014


PBW

Last trace here:

http://www.legalcheek.com/2013/10/high-court-judge-mocks-solicitor-turned-pornstars-romantic-prose-style-in-hunny-bunny-dispute/

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ecobhoyPosted on2:25 pm - May 10, 2014


scapaflow says:
May 10, 2014 at 12:16 am
ecobhoy says:
May 9, 2014 at 9:18 pm

Ah Eco, in penance for my infelicitous analogy, I shall immediately beat my maxims into ploughshares! Wasn’t Santayana recasting Burke’s statement?
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Good Try! But I can’t accept your proposition because of the totally opposed concepts underpinning the two statements. More penance is required 😯

Burke made his comment – People will not look forward to posterity, who never look backward to their ancestors – specifically in relation to the causes of the French Revolution and it wasn’t a question of history being forgotten but the French elite failing to follow the tried and trusted British constitutional model whose basis ran from Magna Charta to the Declaration of Right.

It wasn’t simply a matter of history being forgotten but down to the ruling elite straying from the inherited and established constitutional model. The ‘savages’ back in those days didn’t make, feature-in or influence history which was the province of Royalty and to a lesser extent Parliament.

Those revolting French peasants hadn’t forgotten history but actually created it by breaking the existing constitutional mould and to this day revolution is possibly the biggest fear of the ruling elite in any country – even the SFA 😆

Helpfully, Burke amplifies his comments in ‘Reflections on the Revolution in France’:

‘It has been the uniform policy of our constitution to claim and assert our liberties as an entailed inheritance derived to us from our forefathers, and to be transmitted to our posterity as an estate specially belonging to the people of this kingdom . . .

‘By this means our constitution preserves a unity in so great a diversity of its parts. We have an inheritable crown, an inheritable peerage, and a House of Commons and a people inheriting privileges, franchises, and liberties from a long line of ancestors.’

Burk has been labelled as the first modern Conservative thinker and his politics certainly shine through in his comment: ‘Binding up the constitution of our country with our dearest domestic ties, adopting our fundamental laws into the bosom of our family affections, keeping inseparable and cherishing with the warmth of all their combined and mutually reflected charities our state, our hearths, our sepulchres, and our altars.’

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essexbeancounterPosted on2:37 pm - May 10, 2014


John Clark says:
May 10, 2014 at 1:04 am
45 0 Rate This

The posts about the pornographer leaving the country prompted me to have a wee look at wiki.
” Paul Baxendale-Walker, also known under the pseudonym Paul Chaplin,[1] is a talk show host, former lawyer and an author of legal text books. He is, together with Andrew Thornhill Q.C., the author of The Law and Taxation of Remuneration Trusts[2]”
Andrew Thornhill QC!
Am I the only one who did not know that he was co-author with the pornographer?
Seemed such a nice chap as well, at the UTTT!
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JC(e)…Thornhill is absolutely charming…I have met him at tax conferences on several occasions.

You have PM.

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ecobhoyPosted on2:56 pm - May 10, 2014


upthehoops says:
May 10, 2014 at 2:14 pm
ecobhoy says:
May 10, 2014 at 2:05 pm
========================
The cultural baggage is an issue without a doubt. It is noticeable to me that since the 2012 implosion there is an ever more extreme hard core attached to the place now. It’s believed around 9K of their season ticket holders did not renew following liquidation. What type replaced them?
==========================================
The 9k figure was an official one as I remember and I believe last year there was another 3/4000 non renewals. It appears younger fans have replaced them and they can be more impressionable and just daft and be easily carried away.

ST price could well be a major factor in the younger uptake and on a purely personal level I know a some older long-term Bears who have called it a day but most of them say they just can’t summon the energy to go and watch the rubbish football.

I’m not so sure about how much of a hard-core expansion there has been but it’s fairly obvious that the actual hard-core groups are mounting a serious internet campaign but tbh I think that has more to do with factors external to football and a growing realisation that their power base is slowly eroding.

I firmly believe Scotland is slowly changing for the better and there will be hiccups for sure but eventually given a lot of hard work we’ll get there eventually.

And as quotes are the order of the day I’ll end with one from Margaret Mead who taught me – through her writing – to try and look beyond the ‘savage’ exterior to find the person.

“Never believe that a few caring people can’t change the world. For indeed that’s all who ever have.”

And for scapaflow: That just reminded me that Margaret Mead completely debunked the outdated and racially offensive Santayana premise of the eternally infantile savage being incapable of learning from history. So I am in good company 😉

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essexbeancounterPosted on3:04 pm - May 10, 2014


ecobhoy says:
May 10, 2014 at 11:05 am
13 0 Rate This

James Doleman says:
May 10, 2014 at 10:23 am

ianagain

News to me but I’m tied up with the Brooks/Coulson trial so not really staying on top of the tax thing. Would suggest Mr Baxendale may have other reasons to do a midnight flit, never seen any suggestion he is in any way liable for how EBT scheme operated at Ibrox.
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Somewhere, deep in my rusty memory banks, I seem to remember seeing somewhere that Baxendale’s very strict guidelines for operating the EBT scheme weren’t followed at Rangers. I could well be wrong but perhaps someone else might be able to identify a possible source for my memory fragment.
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Ecobhoy…absolutely spot on!

Without revisiting the “legal or illegal” aspects, let alone the moral aspects of the tax avoidance/evasion implications of EBTs, the FTT came about largely because Baxendale-Walker’s strict guidelines were not followed by MIH/RFC(IL), giving HMRC adequate grounds for appeal.

The rest, as they say, is history, but fortunately still pending, as the final outcome of the appeal hearing is still awaited.

And just to muddy the waters even further, EBTs can be and still are used by the wonderfully named “Tax Mitigation Industry”, despite all the adverse publicity over the last few years…and no…I do not touch them with the proverbial bargepole!

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paulsatimPosted on3:28 pm - May 10, 2014


essexbeancounter says:
May 10, 2014 at 3:04 pm

But would (S)DM et al used it if it was part of a Taxation Industry of Mitigation

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RyanGosling

RyanGoslingPosted on3:28 pm - May 10, 2014


With regards to the cultural baggage:

I took my niece to the park recently. While I was keeping an eye on her on the climbing frame, a small group of 2-3 boys who were no older than seven, otherwise perfectly behaved, were also enjoying the thrills of the climbing frame while singing a full version of the billy boys.

Education at a very early age is the only way we will ever finally deal with this baggage on both a football and societal level. These kids were not born bigots, but they are indoctrinated with this guff from the moment they’re born, and long before they are old enough to understand the words they are singing.

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John ClarkPosted on4:02 pm - May 10, 2014


essexbeancounter says:
May 10, 2014 at 2:37 pm
—-
You have PM.

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upthehoopsPosted on4:05 pm - May 10, 2014


I can’t believe the general tone of the radio pundits today on the prospect of Hibs being relegated. Apologies to any Hibs fans on here but if they go down it will be because they deserve to. If that means Hibs, Hearts and Rangers all fighting for the league next year then so be it. Will it then mean that it is only good for the game in the pundits eyes if Rangers are promoted, because they have the biggest support? I honestly believe when people start hinting that leagues should be decided on anything other than meritocracy then it’s game over. If Hibs go down that’s the way it goes. If they stay up good luck to them, and equally good luck to any team who might beat Hibs in the play off.

On another note it is pathetic to hear pundits use the fact that Hibs may go down as some kind of stick to beat the top league with, while promoting the league on the next level down as the only gig in town. Where on earth do you start with that? Since when did the 2nd league earn more prize money and give entry to European football. These guys seriously need to get a grip.

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RyanGosling

RyanGoslingPosted on4:22 pm - May 10, 2014


Upthehoops, scottish football needs strong teams. Doesn’t matter who they are. If Hamilton, for example, beat Hibs in the playoffs and then next season unearth 11 hidden gems from their youth setup and start playing like Barcelona next year, demolishing all before them, they’d need to build a new stand pretty lively. Fans in Scotland, like anywhere else, will flock to see good football. Pundits in Scotland have forgotten this because it’s been so long since it’s been seen here and therefore they just think it’s important that the “big” teams are in the top league.

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yakutsuki

yakutsukiPosted on4:36 pm - May 10, 2014


So sad to read of wee Oscar Knox passing away after a brave fight that touched the heart of so many football fans from different clubs.

Bill Shankly was wrong! RIP wee man.

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ecobhoyPosted on4:41 pm - May 10, 2014


RyanGosling says:
May 10, 2014 at 4:22 pm

Fans in Scotland, like anywhere else, will flock to see good football. Pundits in Scotland have forgotten this because it’s been so long since it’s been seen here and therefore they just think it’s important that the “big” teams are in the top league.
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Won’t disagree with you but I would add exciting football – which doesn’t necessarily mean good football at least not in Barca terms – and we certainly have had a lot of that recently and today I have been given a list of things to do in the house 🙁 but keep getting side-tracked by the footie commentary on the steam radio so at this rate I won’t be allowed out for a pint tonight 😎

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yakutsuki

yakutsukiPosted on4:41 pm - May 10, 2014


I’ve not posted for a few months but have followed every day. (I’m too old for naughty steps)

I’m looking forward to attending the cup final with my son, I hope it’s as good a game as I witnessed at Tannadice yesterday between Dundee Utd and Celtic U20s. A lot of great talent in both teams. We’ve a lot to look forward to if clubs start living within their means. Armageddon ma bahookie!

Anyway, back to lurking for a while….

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ecobhoyPosted on4:45 pm - May 10, 2014


upthehoops says:
May 10, 2014 at 4:05 pm

it is pathetic to hear pundits use the fact that Hibs may go down as some kind of stick to beat the top league with, while promoting the league on the next level down as the only gig in town. Where on earth do you start with that? Since when did the 2nd league earn more prize money and give entry to European football. These guys seriously need to get a grip.
================================
Perhaps they have already had the grip 😆

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essexbeancounterPosted on4:48 pm - May 10, 2014


paulsatim says:

May 10, 2014 at 3:28 pm

5

0

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essexbeancounter says:
May 10, 2014 at 3:04 pm

But would (S)DM et al used it if it was part of a Taxation Industry of Mitigation
=====================================================
…only if it were prefixed by Paul’s…or similar!

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Danish PastryPosted on4:50 pm - May 10, 2014


upthehoops says:
May 10, 2014 at 4:05 pm
12 0 Rate This

I can’t believe the general tone of the radio pundits today on the prospect of Hibs being relegated …
———-

For my sins, I was listening to SSB live while doing the gardening (BBC stream turned into the usual repetitive male voice after OtB telling me the BBC was now unavailable).

It was mock horror at Celtic having to play ‘the likes of Hamilton and Ross Country’ and the Championship being the new top tier. It’s as though Dundee, and any another team that comes up with them, are somehow not worthy. ‘No one wants to watch a Celtic procession’! These guys take the biscuit for bias and negativity.

SSB has been obsessed with The Journey, which has looked pretty much like a procession to me. As you say, if Hibs go down it’ll be because they deserve to. The upturn for me is that I can see a 16-team top tier approaching as the ‘solution’ to Scottish football’s woes. Right move, imo, though probably from the wrong movtives (SOS TRFC).

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ecobhoyPosted on4:55 pm - May 10, 2014


essexbeancounter says:
May 10, 2014 at 2:37 pm

Thornhill is absolutely charming…I have met him at tax conferences on several occasions.
=========================
I hope he wasn’t doing his talent scout for his co-author – he might have been sizing you up for a cameo performance in ‘The Naughty Accountant’ 🙄

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James DolemanPosted on5:37 pm - May 10, 2014


RFC fans on twitter saying a “ticket office source” has informed them that 25,000 season tickets have been renewed.

They are very pleased.

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ianagain

ianagainPosted on5:43 pm - May 10, 2014


James

Will be required to pay for the 2 new execs salaries 😀

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MartinPosted on6:06 pm - May 10, 2014


With Rangers fans continuing to fight for the heart and soul of their club, the fight remains characterised by deep divisions among the support.

As an outsider looking in I have often marvelled at the cast of characters who have been supported by one fans group or another and simultaneously derided by others.

In the face of actual and effective fan organisation, desired objectives thus far have remained unfulfilled. I suspect this will remain the case for as long as organised fans groups cast around for a leader who seems to provide a way forward, rather that setting the agenda for themselves.

As it is we seem to have amidst the myriad of Rangers fans groups two distinct camps.

Those who support the current board, and those who don’t.

We have been here before.

The focus for each group has changed over time (It’s Graham Wallace and Dave King for now).

The Rangers support has split in a manner not seen since Laurel and Hardy lit up the silver screen.

Two gentlemen staring aghast at their predicament whilst one lamentably proclaims “well, here’s another fine mess you’ve gotten us into” and the other weeps incoherently.

The lasting comedic value of Laurel and Hardy was that in spite of their efforts to succeed in their internal struggle, when faced with the challenges of the wider world they were entirely impotent.

Laurel and Hardy were permanently locked together in a bad marriage which ensured permanent frustration and failure, to the delight of their audience.

Can Rangers fans avoid a similar fate?

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Allyjambo

AllyjamboPosted on6:07 pm - May 10, 2014


James Doleman says:
May 10, 2014 at 5:37 pm

With no credit card/debit card and no direct debit systems available, I’d like to know how they’ve managed to process so many manual applications. Unless they’ve found a way to send cash and cheques via online renewals 🙄 then the only way is by post or at the ticket office. A few days ago Wallace claimed a slow take-up, so presumably much less than 10,000 (I’m being very generous), so some bears believe they have processed in excess of 15,000 in just two or three days. That’s a lot of cash and cheques, and one hell of a lot of application forms to key into the system. Must have an army of cashiers and processors at Ibrox, and all needing paid too.

I seem to remember media pictures of the huge queues in the past couple of years, with Charlie entertaining the faithful, anybody seen any this year? Or even heard reports of queues?

I seem to recall cases in the past of TRFC board supporters, and even board members, using the internet to boost the bears’ perception of how well they were doing, by pretending to be ordinary fans. They wouldn’t do the same again, would they? 😉

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StevieBC

StevieBCPosted on6:18 pm - May 10, 2014


James Doleman says:
May 10, 2014 at 5:37 pm
RFC fans on twitter saying a “ticket office source” has informed them that 25,000 season tickets have been renewed…
====================
Unless I’m just being thick here…

I believe that TRFC has limited banking facilities with Metro Bank – a relatively new UK bank which seems more focused on online banking.
However, it does have about 20 branches [stores] but they are based around London.https://www.metrobankonline.co.uk/Our-Stores/OurStores/

So, in the absence of card facilities – and in the absence of a local branch in Scotland – how does TRFC manage the logistics of depositing ‘potentially’ large sums of ST cash and cheques into their account ?
Or would they have to use – and pay for – another locally available arrangement ?
[Like rest it in someone’s mother’s account in the Govan Post Office ? 😉 ]

And in my cynical mind I’m thinking that this could be a great once only opportunity for someone to deposit large amounts of readies without undue external concern ?

But I must be missing something simple here. 🙄

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chancer67Posted on6:59 pm - May 10, 2014


The land bears are onto Celtic again,do they ever give up this time it’s about the new Landscaping at the stadium and the demolition of London Road School

http://footballtaxhavens.wordpress.com/2014/05/10/mineshaft-fault-voids-coal-workings-made-ground-conveniently-used-to-justify-demolition-of-lrps-quickly-forgotten-by-gcc-in-new-building-approval/

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Barcabhoy

BarcabhoyPosted on7:03 pm - May 10, 2014


Ryan Gosling

You said

“Barcabhoy thanks for drawing that to our attention. I’m not defending Murray, however I don’t think he was doing anything out of the ordinary. Almost everybody pre 2008 was borrowing excessive amounts of money and claiming huge profits and wages, assuming the borrowing would be repaid with future profits which never materialised. ”

I am going to find it hard to comment on this statement without being very rude. So i’ll just confine myself to this.

You could not be more wrong. It is so far from accurate it’s hard to fathom.

To attempt to try and explain Murray’s actions by way of everyone was doing it, is straight from the Jack Irvine book of whitewashing.

Murray is almost unique in the size and scale of the damage he has done to the Scottish economy, his employees rights and entitlements and to an important sector of Scottish life.

There is no excuse for Murray. None. He has benefitted significantly financially from MIH at the same time as havoc has been wreaked on staff and lenders. There should be an independent enquiry into every single transaction between MIH and Murrays private equity business, who have been buying assets as a state owned bank has written off hundreds of £millions of bad loans to this guy.

Employees won’t get their retirement benefits, because the assets that should have funded their retirement have been sold for way under book value, many of them to Murray personally.

Were these assets sold in a competitive bidding environment, or were they just sold in discussions between Murray and MIH ?

Murray benefitted from a £6 million interest free EBT loan, at the same time as 315 employees of MIH will not receive the retirement benefits they are entitled to. Will Murray repay this loan ? Would this allow the funds be returned to MIH for the benefit of the pensioners ?

To suggest that any of what happened at MIH is par for the course is ridiculous. It smacks of deflection.

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neepheid

neepheidPosted on7:20 pm - May 10, 2014


Barcabhoy says:
May 10, 2014 at 7:03 pm

Employees won’t get their retirement benefits, because the assets that should have funded their retirement have been sold for way under book value, many of them to Murray personally.
===============
Should that perhaps say “many of them to companies owned or controlled by Murray personally”? I would be surprised if someone like SDM was transferring properties into his own name, but what do I know. In Scotland, as I have found out to my astonishment over the last few years, absolutely anything is possible.

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Barcabhoy

BarcabhoyPosted on7:27 pm - May 10, 2014


Neepheid

You are correct. However a business which is completely privately controlled is for all practical purposes, in regards to decision making, the same as selling them to the individual.

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easyJamboPosted on7:32 pm - May 10, 2014


Barcabhoy says: May 10, 2014 at 7:03 pm
——————————
Here are some numbers that show a flavour of what SDM was taking out of MIH and RFC
SDM’s MIH ……RFC earnings (highest paid director £M)
2006 1.857….. 0.712
2007 1.984….. 0.357
2008 n/a…. ….. 0.668
2009 1.849…… 0.468
2010 1.014….. Resigned as RFC chairman Aug 2009
2011 0.793
2012 0.783
2013 0.361
————–
But the more galling figure was what his companies took out of RFC in related party transactions as payments for services to Murray Group companies

Value of contracts to related parties from RFC accounts
1998 675,000
1999 673,000
2000 975,000
2001 3,082,000
2002 4,221,000
2003 3,896,000
2004 4,298,000
2005 3,941,000
2006 1,918,000
2007 1,875,000
2008 1,177,000
2009 1,140,000
2010 665,000
2011 407,000
Total 28,943,000

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RyanGosling

RyanGoslingPosted on7:35 pm - May 10, 2014


Barca- feel free to be as rude as you please!

It doesn’t smack of deflection from the Jack Irvine school, as I am not trying to deflect anything from that man or defend him in any way. I just don’t think he was unique. Did he do more damage to the Scottish economy than HBOS, or RBS? No, he categorically did not. Did the directors of those businesses benefit hugely at the same time as screwing over shareholders and pensions beneficiaries? Yes, they categorically did. I don’t disagree with much of what you said beyond “it is so far from accurate it is hard to fathom”. On consideration, I stand by what I said.

For the record, you also said “there is no excuse for Murray”. On that we are in full agreement.

Feel free to come back to me, again being as rude as you wish to be, because I am wholeheartedly of the opinion that while there is no excuse for Murray, there were many more during the same period who were doing much worse purely because they were better at milking the golden goose than Murray was. I will notify in advance that I’m about to go out for the night so I might not get back to you immdediately.

For further reference, i suggest anyone interested reads articles by Matt Taibbi on Goldman Sachs for the prime examples of disgusting behaviour in taking outrageous profits for the select few by milking the little man. By their example, Murray’s personal fortune and rewards are pathetically small.

Once more- I’m not defending the man. His actions and lack of remorse or recognition have been abhorrent.

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Barcabhoy

BarcabhoyPosted on7:45 pm - May 10, 2014


Hibernian FC…….where do you start with this.

There will be contributors on here closer to the goings on at Hibs than myself, however let me offer my twopence worth.

The problem starts and ends with Rod Petrie. As unpersonable an individual as i’ve ever met. Now maybe that’s just me, although my view is shared by others of my acquaintance who have had dealings with him. It’s not necessary to have charisma or charm or even an outgoing personality to be successful in Scottish football, but it isn’t a hinderance.

In every deal you should leave something on the table for the other side. When someone you have treated arrogantly previously, is in a position where they are on the other side of a deal , why would they be reasonable ?

Hibs are massive underachievers. Petrie has been a disaster for Hibs for at least 4 years. Leanne Dempster is taking on a poisoned chalice if Petrie retains any executive powers at Hibs. He should be restricted to non executive , SFA related activities. Failing that Hibs will never fulfill their potential .

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Allyjambo

AllyjamboPosted on7:51 pm - May 10, 2014


Barcabhoy says:
May 10, 2014 at 7:03 pm

Barca,
That, I think, was a rather muted response. Very accurate, but muted. In such a small country, for one man to have created such a sham behemoth of companies, beggars belief. That he is not being pilloried throughout the land speaks volumes for the integrity of Scotland’s ruling classes and business community. That anyone could possibly try to diminish the level of his part in the collapse of a huge swathe of Scotland’s economy, also beggars belief.

The same could probably been said about the Krays: everyone in the East End was at it… It would have been just as accurate – in as much as neither statement was true! But there are those that would excuse the Krays…

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Campbellsmoney

CampbellsmoneyPosted on7:53 pm - May 10, 2014


Undoubtedly there have been other lauded businesspeople whose activities have adversely affected their communities. However this is a football blog and this Scotland. So far as I am aware Goldman Sachs didn’t have an interest in Scottish football. David Murray’s influence permeated our football. We are all still dealing with the legacy of his practices.

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Barcabhoy

BarcabhoyPosted on7:57 pm - May 10, 2014


easyJambo says:
May 10, 2014 at 7:32 pm
0 0 Rate This

EJ

Whats also telling is how many Murray companies were sold whilst being underpinned by contracts with Rangers.

Ryan Gosling

Goldman Sachs have no relevance in a Scottish scenario. RBS & HBOS were also not privately owned. There were serious abuses at these business’ but they are not a valid comparison with Murray.

We are talking about a privately owned business which somehow managed to borrow at 800% of its retained reserves, whilst enabling the owner to draw £10’s of millions in remuneration at the same time as failing to fulfill obligations to employees pensions and bank borrowings.

If you show me a single privately owned Scottish business with the same characteristics , i would be happy to comment. If you can show me the large numbers of such business’ i would be utterly amazed.

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RyanGosling

RyanGoslingPosted on8:04 pm - May 10, 2014


Ah, well there we have the crux of our conversation and the reason (I believe) you were compelled to respond to me as you did. I was speaking about the financial environment in the world preceding the financial crisis and Murray’s actions in that context. Applying the (sensible, considering where we are having this conversation) criteria you did, then you are right to make the points you make.

Campbellsmoney also added to this context that I mention, by pointing out that Goldman Sachs didn’t have an interest in Scottish football. Unless they did. This is after all the business that has been described as a vampire squid on the face of humanity!

However, I do maintain that my comments regarding HBOS and RBS are relevant; HBOS are, after all, the entity which facilitated Mr Murray’s actions.

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MartinPosted on8:11 pm - May 10, 2014


Chancer67,

Without wishing to expend too much energy on this ( I lack the patience of Ecobhoy). It’s clear that with all the Land Bears efforts to identify wrong doing and dastardly conspiracies time spent pouring over maps has exposed a singular lack of intelligence.

The latest link provided makes the astonishing link between problematic land conditions and the subsequent closure of a school.

Problems which if the land bears are to be believed facilitated an undervalue purchase of the land in question then vanished when Celtic subsequently built on the same land.

Perhaps it has never occurred to these intrepid investigators that when schools are closed the value of the building and the land on which it stands is of little consequence compared to its usefulness or affordability as a place of education compared to whatever alternatives may be in place.

The intrepid Land Bears have missed another point which could easily have been resolved by simply visiting the site.

“ when justification for demolishing the London Road Primary School was required then, via the SHEP report, a fault, voids, coal workings, made ground and a mineshaft were found affecting the ground stabilisation. However for Celtic’s New Building development there appears to be no grouting and ground stabilisation required – probably because it would cost perhaps millions.”

As it happens there is no building on the site of the old school. Just a public space, some paving and a little planting.

These guys need to get out more.

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essexbeancounterPosted on8:23 pm - May 10, 2014


Tincks says:
May 10, 2014 at 12:15 pm
9 0 Rate This

Logged in to post the link to the Take That “Icebreaker Partnerships” tax tribunal decision, but,
scapaflow says:
May 10, 2014 at 9:37 am
has beaten me to it.

Does this judgement have any relevance to or potential impact upon the MG/Rangers UTTT? Genuine question, can any of TSFM resident experts shed any light?

Thanks in advance.
=====================================================
Tincks…whilst I would never hold myself out as a tax expert, I too read the judgement in this case, from no less than Lord Bishopp, who as posters will recall, was down to hear the MIH/HMRC UTT, only to be replaced by the “Celtic season ticket holding” judge at the last minute.

The main thrust behind this scheme and other recent high profile celebrity tax payer schemes, is that when looked at in the cold light of day, all transactions were seen to be totally artificial, with no apparent commercial reason or benefit, designed purely to create a tax advantage. I would emphasise his Lordships findings re “artificiality” and therefore invalid schemes.

That is why the scheme “failed” and HMRC are “over the moon, Jim” and certain second rate musicians, amongst others, are faced with substantial tax bills, possibly including penalties and interest.

Now as regards the EBT variations…………………

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Danish PastryPosted on8:32 pm - May 10, 2014


RyanGosling says:
May 10, 2014 at 8:04 pm
1 1 Rate This

I was speaking about the financial environment in the world preceding the financial crisis and Murray’s actions in that context …
———–

I understood that from the context of your earlier post Ryan, although having followed this for a few years now I believe I see where Barca is coming from. To be honest, if the crisis hadn’t hit when it did you wonder how long Murray would have gone on ruinously spending other people’s money and creating his own Blue Armageddon for Scottish football. That charges of fraud haven’t been brought against anyone, given the financial goings on, is simply incredible. And the longer justice is delayed the more people will cry out for it. At some point, those behind this will no longer be able to pay their media assets and PR men to lie for them. The smokescreen of lies and deception is already lifting. Truth will out.

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Danish PastryPosted on8:47 pm - May 10, 2014


James Doleman says:
May 10, 2014 at 5:37 pm
8 1 Rate This

RFC fans on twitter saying a “ticket office source” has informed them that 25,000 season tickets have been renewed.

They are very pleased.
————

If true, genuinely unexpected good news. In fact, if true, why didn’t Oor Graham mention it during his twitter happening yesterday? Surely even the ticket office cat must know the true figures!

I saw this on twitter tonight as well and am beginning to wonder if Mr Tyrrell does more than write PR pieces. The use of twitter trolls to influence opinion is now a known tactic of those with an unpopular agenda.

If 25,000 have been sold, though, it should keep the SS Sevtanic above the waves for the foreseeable future. All ship-shape and Bristol fashion.

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essexbeancounterPosted on8:55 pm - May 10, 2014


StevieBC says:
May 10, 2014 at 6:18 pm
11 0 Rate This

James Doleman says:
May 10, 2014 at 5:37 pm
RFC fans on twitter saying a “ticket office source” has informed them that 25,000 season tickets have been renewed…
====================
Unless I’m just being thick here…

I believe that TRFC has limited banking facilities with Metro Bank – a relatively new UK bank which seems more focused on online banking.
However, it does have about 20 branches [stores] but they are based around London.https://www.metrobankonline.co.uk/Our-Stores/OurStores/

So, in the absence of card facilities – and in the absence of a local branch in Scotland – how does TRFC manage the logistics of depositing ‘potentially’ large sums of ST cash and cheques into their account ?
Or would they have to use – and pay for – another locally available arrangement ?
[Like rest it in someone’s mother’s account in the Govan Post Office ? 😉 ]

And in my cynical mind I’m thinking that this could be a great once only opportunity for someone to deposit large amounts of readies without undue external concern ?

But I must be missing something simple here. 🙄
=======================================================
Stevie…I don’t think you are being thick…I am sure being on the other sifde of the pond you are famiIiar with Metro Bank.
I had the pleasure of listening to Vernon Hill, Founder and CEO of Metro bank about ten days ago. Having listened all four chairmen/CEOs of the fourUK big banks at breakfast meetings and similar “networking opportunities”, this guy was indeed a revelation (he even commented on my “nice” Scottish accent). He also pointed out that there are 7,000 (seven thousand!) banks in the US all looking for business.

Whilst they are certainly in expansion mode, (hence having TRFC as a basic customer) and emphasise internet banking as you correctly say, they have the best banking capital/reserves ratio in the UK and their risk assessment in respect of lending is no less vigorous, hence the implication that TRFC have no working credit facility. I can only assume that cash handling will be “outsourced” locally…but at what expense I know not.

I do however accept your point re branch/store logistics, but being a customer (and a satisfied one too!) they are certainly no fly by night outfit.

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essexbeancounterPosted on9:04 pm - May 10, 2014


Martin says:
May 10, 2014 at 8:11 pm
7 0 Rate This

Chancer67,

Without wishing to expend too much energy on this ( I lack the patience of Ecobhoy). (my edit!)
=======================================================
Martin…I think that sentiment must apply to the vast majority of posters/contributors on this site.

Ecobhoy…when do you sleep?….you do sleep, don’t you?

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Campbellsmoney

CampbellsmoneyPosted on9:50 pm - May 10, 2014


I can’t help but think that Ecobhoy could demolish the arguments in his sleep.

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John ClarkPosted on9:56 pm - May 10, 2014


I am a little puzzled.
Is this the same company that is mentioned as a suggested means of payment for TRFC season ticket
:OPTION 2 – Zebra Finance by 4 or 10 monthly instalments
Renew online from Thursday 1 May at http://www.rangers.co.uk/renew, download a renewal form or request a form from Rangers Ticket Centre.

“ZEBRA FINANCE LIMITED
»Home»ZEBRA FINANCE LIMITED

In Administration (when checked on 10 May 2014)”

If it is, what does it say about the old adage’ birds of a feather…’? And about the sheer effrontery of a company that suggests its public should make use of the services of a manifestly inefficient,bust company? Which seems still to be trading?
Somebody tell me I’m wrong, or I will not sleep tonight.

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ianagain

ianagainPosted on10:05 pm - May 10, 2014


John

Well another revelation, what next?

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upthehoopsPosted on10:11 pm - May 10, 2014


ecobhoy says:
May 10, 2014 at 4:45 pm

upthehoops says:
May 10, 2014 at 4:05 pm

it is pathetic to hear pundits use the fact that Hibs may go down as some kind of stick to beat the top league with, while promoting the league on the next level down as the only gig in town. Where on earth do you start with that? Since when did the 2nd league earn more prize money and give entry to European football. These guys seriously need to get a grip.
================================
Perhaps they have already had the grip 😆
===============================================
Indeed Eco! However, at the risk of censure from the excellent moderators of this forum I will leave my thoughts on that to myself :mrgreen:

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occamPosted on10:12 pm - May 10, 2014


Just been catching up on Billy Connolly’s Big Send Off – enjoyable with that edge that we must all feel given the subject matter…. Ending with the ditty that kept many going during the dark days at Celtic Park (credit Fergus for what we should all insist is the rightful name there)
‘Always look on the bright side……..’
That’s the trouble with WATP — get a life and keep things in proportion!!

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TallBoy Poppy

TallBoy PoppyPosted on10:25 pm - May 10, 2014


Barcabhoy says:May 10, 2014 at 7:03 pm
easyJambo says:May 10, 2014 at 7:32 pm
——————————————————————–
You need to look again to establish (-S)DM’s own pension contributions, particularly just before he stood down from chairmanship the first time. I’m sure he bumped them up to an eye-watering level in the final months before “ill-health” forced him to bail out.
Not able to do a proper search myself just now but perhaps one of the KdS boys could have a look in the archives from around 2009/10?

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RyanGosling

RyanGoslingPosted on10:27 pm - May 10, 2014


Occam- ignoring the same club / new club debate, which TSFM has justifiably given it’s own thread, it occurs to me that most clubs could “survive” a liquidation while maintaining their fans…as long as it was clear that it was a reset. If Celtic had gone under in 94, but then restarted the next day, I reckon they’d have maintained the majority if not all of their fans. If rangers had done the same a couple of years ago, I think they’d have maintained the majority of their fans. But this whole same club thing, when coupled with ongoing financial trouble, has destroyed that possibility. The lies and spivs have raped and destroyed whatever notion of my team ever existed, and if it goes under this time I believe they will have succeeded in destroying the very goodwill they believed they purchased.

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occamPosted on10:42 pm - May 10, 2014


Aye – they never really understood the meaning of goodwill: even in business if you take it for granted it disappears faster than a blue sky on a rainy day…

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Cluster One

Cluster OnePosted on10:43 pm - May 10, 2014


ecobhoy says:

May 10, 2014 at 10:53 am
Patience and money was required so it all took time and to be fair there’s no doubt in my mind that the CG coming to Glasgow accelerated Celtic’s programme and some amazing bits will follow after the Games.

For a minute i thought CG coming to Glasgow was the other CG 😕

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TallBoy Poppy

TallBoy PoppyPosted on11:31 pm - May 10, 2014


ecobhoy says:
May 10, 2014 at 11:05 am
James Doleman says:
May 10, 2014 at 10:23 am
———————————————————————————–
From the man himself. Bottom of the page.
http://thetaxforum.co.uk/showthread.php?tid=359

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ecobhoyPosted on12:13 am - May 11, 2014


CELTIC CLEARED IN LAND DEAL SHOCKER

The latest gibberish on fth is hardly worth a comment but as my name has been mentioned earlier let’s have a laugh but I have a lovely wine to sip and some nice eats on top of a few pints with sane Bears and Bhoys so I’m quite mellow.

So what’s bugged the Bears this time? Jealously pure & simple because Celtic are building a superstore, museum, cafe, ticket and pools offices, parking, landscaping and other facilities. That is the Celic Way which we already have and it’s puir deid brill btw and there’s even bigger projects in the pipeline. I know I know – they’ve got Edmiston Haunted Hoose which really is in a frightful condition. I would suggest demolition asap btw.

Fth have deliberately manufactured a twisted version of the truth which claims that a report disclosing abnormal ground conditions was used to justify the demolition of London Road School. However they claim the co-joined planning application by Celtic doesn’t mention these ground problems.

Ergo this must mean that it was all another part of the 20 year plot by Celtic supporters in positions of power to ensure Celtic occupies its Rightful Place. I obviously can’t comment on that because it’s a secret but the east end is grateful for the State Aid – Thank you Commissioner!

I am trying to understand the logic employed by Fth and it seems to be that the abnormal ground conditions were mentione wrt the school to depress the price paid by Celtic and by not mentioning the ground problems in the planning application they could be forgotten about thus saving Celtic million in remediation costs.

What a great conspiracy theory dreamt-up by an obsessive with such a burning a hatred of Celtic that he is blind to the truth and actual facts.

Fth erroneously states:

‘Have a look at the 42 planning documents. Tell me if you can see any Ground stabilisation/Grouting work [drilling and concrete injection] because I cannot see any.

Suddenly the faults that were there for the justification for demolition of the school have mysteriously vanished.

OK I’ve not only looked at the 42 planning documents but inspected and read them. Perhaps if Fth had done the same he would have noticed that the SHEP Report he refers to was included in both the demolition and planning applications so the ground conditions were clearly and publicly revealed in both applications.

However it really is pathetic to concentrate on one issue contained in the excellent and comprehensive 56 page report but as I have observed many times – Fth appears to have difficulty with reading and comprehension.

However perhaps the greatest indictment of Fth is the complete and utter failure to understand the simplest facts about the planning process. Celtic received planning permission for the building work it requested.

Using the simplest language- for the benefit of Fth – planning permission is mainly about the external visual appearance of a building and how it sits in the surrounding environment and a large number of the 42 documents mentioned concentrate on that. There are also other issues dealt with in the planning process such as parking, vehicular access, flood risk and so on and yip the required documents have also been filed.

But Lo and Behold perhaps Fth have stumbled on the Great Conspiracy because there are no stipulations wrt making the abnormal ground safe. Of course they haven’t – silly billies that they are.

You see the Planning Consent states:

This permission does not exempt you from obtaining a Building Warrant under the Building (Scotland) Acts. For further information, please contact Building Standards within Development and Regeneration Services, 231 George Street, Glasgow, G1 1RX on 0141 287 5937.

Building Warrant? Building (Scotland) Acts? Building Standards?

Well what’s that all about then?

As everyone except the Bear Land ‘Experts’ know exactly what that means I don’t intend to do a Building Control 101 just for Fth.

Suffice to say:

The Building Regulations set down the minimum requirements that must be observed by anyone planning to construct, alter or change the use of a building. Building Control & Public Safety is charged with the responsibility of ensuring that the requirements of the Building Regulations are met.

Planning is about making buildings look good but Building Regs are the statutory requirements which ensure that they are safe. In a known area of historic mining activity like Parkhead and Westthorn which have abnormal ground conditions public safety is paramount. Only after a Building Warrant is issued, stipulating how the development with be safely built, can the development work start.

Therefore any new development is scrutinised and a remediation scheme tailored to deal with abnormal ground conditions to ensure public safety and this is handled by the Building Standards Department. Their decisions and documents are also freely available to the public just like the planning process. Some conspiracy that’s why we’ve got away with it for 20 years – well that’s all I am admitting to 😆

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RyanGosling

RyanGoslingPosted on12:17 am - May 11, 2014


Barcabhoy , why do you draw a distinction between the leverage ratios of public and private companies?

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ecobhoyPosted on12:23 am - May 11, 2014


TallBoy Poppy says:
May 10, 2014 at 11:31 pm
ecobhoy says:
May 10, 2014 at 11:05 am
James Doleman says:
May 10, 2014 at 10:23 am
———————————————————————————–
From the man himself. Bottom of the page.
http://thetaxforum.co.uk/showthread.php?tid=359
================================
Ta – that whole piece is really interesting

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ecobhoyPosted on12:25 am - May 11, 2014


Cluster One says:
May 10, 2014 at 10:43 pm
ecobhoy says:

May 10, 2014 at 10:53 am
Patience and money was required so it all took time and to be fair there’s no doubt in my mind that the CG coming to Glasgow accelerated Celtic’s programme and some amazing bits will follow after the Games.

For a minute i thought CG coming to Glasgow was the other CG 😕

============================

Jeesuz I’ve just snorted my wine reading that 😆

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ecobhoyPosted on12:29 am - May 11, 2014


RyanGosling says:
May 10, 2014 at 10:27 pm

The lies and spivs have raped and destroyed whatever notion of my team ever existed, and if it goes under this time I believe they will have succeeded in destroying the very goodwill they believed they purchased.
============================
I think you’re right but the big problem is for Rangers that if/when it goes under again then the spivs won’t give a hoot about loss of goodwill because they will be off with the dosh and new and plumper target await.

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ecobhoyPosted on12:33 am - May 11, 2014


essexbeancounter says:
May 10, 2014 at 9:04 pm

Ecobhoy…when do you sleep?….you do sleep, don’t you?
===============================
Only with pretty women 😛

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twopandaPosted on12:59 am - May 11, 2014


Could it be they`ve been stitched up like a kipper
Spill the beans Phil 😉
Forget the :slamb:

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CastofthousandsPosted on1:06 am - May 11, 2014


Giovanni says:
May 10, 2014 at 10:51 am

“I am reminded of the hilarious article by broganrogantrevinoandhogan last October”
————————————–
An entertaining piece of wit and like much good drama, benefiting from a factual and historical underpinning. In particular, the following exchange reignited the pertinence of John Clark’s record of Imran Ahmad’s recent court action.

” Ok but the accounts – what do the accounts say about Whyte being the real owner — I mean they are from Deloittes for God sake – they must make the position clear?”
” Well we have had a look at them boss and in that regard the accounts are King Kenny!”
” King Kenny?”
” Aye King Kenny Boss – with regard to Whyte’s claim they say ” maybes aye– maybes naw” and they leave it at that”

The couplet of references to Deloitte’s and the ‘Dean of Faculty’ do suggest that IA was alluding to CW’s claim. We have up until now been speculating with varying levels of voracity concerning the weight of any such claim. However IA’s representation implies that someone present on the board following any novation from Sevco 5088 to Sevco Scotland is suggesting that CW’s claim likely has merit.

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John ClarkPosted on1:17 am - May 11, 2014


ecobhoy says:
May 11, 2014 at 12:33 am
‘….Only with pretty women :razz:’
———
Precision of language can be quite important, ecobhoy! I’m fairly confident that there are some posters who do not sleep, when they are with pretty women! 😀

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ratethisthenyabampotsPosted on1:18 am - May 11, 2014


Whilst these playoffs are what we have all been crying out for, man alive they are flawed. As a Falkirk Bairn, we now face having played 210 minutes v QOS and battled through, we now face the possibility of another 120 mins v Accies who are rested and must be rubbing their hands in glee. All this before a shot at glory v a Premiership team in waiting that may get half the gates from all these games as a parachute payment. Mental. Only in Scotland. Pfft. This is a priority to be reviewed before next season begins.

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enough is enoughPosted on1:28 am - May 11, 2014


“Newcastle owner Mike Ashley is set to launch a surprise takeover of Scottish League One champions Rangers.

There are rules which prevent anyone owning clubs in the same competition however so he will be hoping that Rangers aren’t competing in European competition any time soon.”

Mike? Its fine

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John ClarkPosted on1:55 am - May 11, 2014


ratethisthenyabampots says:
May 11, 2014 at 1:18 am
‘.Whilst these playoffs are what we have all been crying out for, man alive they are flawed.’
———–
I agree.
And I think ,to be fair, most of us feel that there ought to be a more equitable, realistic and workable arrangement.
Personally, I haven’t the kind of mind that can come up with such an arrangement.
All I can say is that in the horse- racing and motor- racing worlds, theoretically at least, there is a conscious effort to keep things reasonably fair,so that there is proper competition between competitors.
.
In the Scottish footballing world, however, the very concept of sporting fairness let alone any practical expression of the sporting ideal, was abandoned a couple of seasons ago.
One cannot now imagine that they will even understand your complaint, let alone act upon it..

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John ClarkPosted on2:11 am - May 11, 2014


ratethisthenyabampots says:
May 11, 2014 at 1:18 am
‘.man alive’
——-
My dad used that expression.I haven’t heard it used by anybody else.My mother used to say “man dear”, which likewise I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone else using..
Extraordinary, the things from childhood that stick with one in one’s later ( aye, ok, old age) years.

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upthehoopsPosted on7:06 am - May 11, 2014


ecobhoy says:
May 11, 2014 at 12:13 am
==========================
The report in the Herald a few months back stated an independent valuation decided Celtic must pay over £800K for London Road Primary School. If they do not do what they say they will do with the land the cost rises to £2M. Doesn’t seem like a sugar coated deal to me, especially when similar closed schools in Glasgow are apparently being sold for much less.

On a wider note I walked up the new ‘Celtic Way’ last week and it looks incredible. Sadly I have spoken to even educated Rangers fans who insist the Scottish Government paid for it. They didn’t, not in any way, shape or form. There also seems to be much misplaced anger about the Emirates Arena being built across the road. What Celtic have to do with that I have no idea, but I guess to them it’s just not befitting that such a place should be built opposite a stadium occupied by what many still view as an underclass. That, in my humble opinion, is the issue. Rangers should be seen as the most important club and should be treated as such. It will take many years for that mindset to change.

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upthehoopsPosted on7:12 am - May 11, 2014


Overheard an interesting wee comment last night from a Rangers fan, who ‘hopes beyond hope’ that Hibs are relegated. When asked why he said it is ‘because of what they did to Rangers’. Am I missing something?

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TallBoy Poppy

TallBoy PoppyPosted on7:23 am - May 11, 2014


John Clark says:
May 10, 2014 at 9:56 pm
—————————————————-
http://kerrydalestreet.co.uk/single/?p=12938090&t=9070302

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essexbeancounterPosted on7:34 am - May 11, 2014


upthehoops says:

May 11, 2014 at 7:06 am
…” It will take many years for that mindset to change.”
=============================================================
UTH…if ever!

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Long Time Lurker

Long Time LurkerPosted on7:58 am - May 11, 2014


Danish Pastry says:
May 10, 2014 at 8:47 pm
————————————–
Perhaps one way to assess the sale of season tickets down Ibrox way, is to arrange for a head count at the ticket office. I am assuming that given the no credit/debit card restrictions that the bulk of fans are having to turn up and pay in cash.

If fans are paying by direct debit then I would also imagine that people working in banks would notice a larger volume of that type of transaction going through.

I remember 2 years ago when fans stood up and said to Club chairmen, unless you vote for sporting integrity season tickets will not be renewed. When the fans started buying ST again, most clubs had a season ticket count on their web sites.

Come on Rangers – why no season ticket counter on your web site. Or at least a picture of Mr McCoist and a line graph showing how on this stage of the journey – how ST sales compare with last season?

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upthehoopsPosted on9:05 am - May 11, 2014


So an Ibrox ‘source’ is saying 25K tickets sold! If that were true they would be shouting it from the rooftops and using it to discredit King and his laughable scheme.

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wottpiPosted on9:05 am - May 11, 2014


Re season ticket sales and Dave King.
What is the board”s GFT figure?
Is it anything above the 50% capacity figure of 25,541?
Or is it anything above 50% of last year’s season ticket sales, say 19,000?

At some point they must have a figure that they can say to King that while it was never on in the first place they won’t be offering security to what is a minority group of supporters.

I suppose the opposite is true in that what figure is King’s mind that will allow him to claim the trust was a success to warrant being granted security over the Big House?

Maybe the MSM would like to ask these questions of the participants?

If there is no counter on the official Ibrox site then what fun they could have running a totaliser based on rumour or some form of poll of the bears next week.

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TSFMPosted on9:18 am - May 11, 2014


Interesting comment by Richard Wilson on BBC website. Whilst having a sideswipe at Graham Wallace’s about his bonus in contrast with admin redundancies at Ibrox, he also claimed that the players have been paid no bonus for winning the league.
I have been preoccupied recently with other stuff, but I am sure I wouldn’t have missed that factlet?
Is this another MSM-dispensed “fact” or is it actually true I wonder?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/scotland/27272543

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wottpiPosted on9:27 am - May 11, 2014


TSFM says:
May 11, 2014 at 9:18 am

No player bonus was reported in the papers six days ago as coming from McCoist himself.

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upthehoopsPosted on9:33 am - May 11, 2014


TSFM says:
May 11, 2014 at 9:18 am
============================
McCoist has been directly quoted recently as saying the management team and players took no bonus for winning the league.

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