Podcast Episode 5 – Hibs Takeover ?

ByBig Pink

Podcast Episode 5 – Hibs Takeover ?

A consortium led by David Low has been in talks with Sir Tom Farmer seeking to purchase Hibernian Football Club. The story has been embargoed for a few weeks, but David agreed to speak to TSFM to give us an exclusive interview and provide us with information about his intentions for the Edinburgh club.

Highlights of the interview include the similarities and differences between the Hibs situation and the one he found at Celtic Pak in 1994; how Scottish Football’s “new level playing field” as Low calls it has created an opportunity for a club like Hibs to be the main challenger to Celtic for honours; the contrast of his consortium’s approach to that of the recent debacle at Ibrox; the role of the fans at every level of the club; the future of Allan Stubbs and Leanne Dempster; and the journey back to the Premiership.

Low is frank about his reputation as a well-known Celtic fan, but highlights his Hibbee credentials and his affection for the club, eschewing the “I was always a Hibbee” line taken by so many people seeking to ingratiate themselves with the locals at various clubs.

Certainly, the experience and finance rolling around Low’s consortium is something that any club could do with, but the fans are crucial to their involvement and interest.

He says he won’t go ahead with the purchase unless the fans are behind them.

“Fans have never been so powerful as they are today, especially with the advent of social media like TSFM”

“We have seen in recent years what a body of fans are capable of when they re together”

“We want to have that togetherness at Hibs, because the only way forward is to have trust between the boardroom and the fans, you only have to look at the levels of distrust between board and fans at Rangers to see that it is a recipe for disaster”


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About the author

Big Pink administrator

Big Pink is John Cole; a former schoolteacher based in the West of Scotland, He is also a print and broadcast journalist who is engaged in the running of SFM . Former gigs include Newstalk 106, the Celtic View, and Channel67. A Celtic fan, he is also the voice of our podcast initiative.

2,528 Comments so far

TrisidiumPosted on2:15 pm - Aug 9, 2014


Thanks to Big Pink for getting the exclusive on this. For us it is some kind of recognition that TSFM gets to the people who matter, and of their trust that we will give football people a proper platform (as well as subject them to some scrutiny). Of course BP’s former connection with Celtic helps in some ways to connect with football folk, but the trust thing is down to all of us who participate in the blog. Hopefully David Low will only be the first to come to TSFM first with a story.

If anyone has any questions about the Low consortium or has questions for them about their plans, please voice them here. They will get to the consortium directly, and we will chase up answers.

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Big PinkPosted on2:22 pm - Aug 9, 2014


Folks, please forgive the rough edit on the podcast. It is the first very rough cut from our editors, but the embargo on the story was lifted earlier than expected, so time was of the essence.
Also, we still have a podcast in the spout so to speak. A very interesting, informative and entertaining chat I had with Chris Brookmyre which has not yet been released through nothing other than timing and scheduling difficulties.

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M8DreamerPosted on2:31 pm - Aug 9, 2014


As a Hibs supporter who has previously purchased shares in the club, which very quickly became worthless, I would welcome the opportunity to purchase further shares in my football club, provided that there is a proper management team in place with a fully detailed plan for the long term future of Hibs.

The one thing I would want to be no part of, would be being led up the garden path by a bunch of Spivs like the TRFC 2012 supporters, as there club is bled dry by people with no other thought than personal greed.

My one wish is that whoever is in charge of running Hibs, they only have the best interests of the club at heart.

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A Tall MonitorPosted on2:43 pm - Aug 9, 2014


TSFM, Big Pink and everyone who was involved in bringing us this Podcast; congratulations. You have enhanced the credibility of this Blog immeasurably both by securing David Low’s trust and by undoubtedly honouring his (and his colleagues’) need for an embargo. Well done!

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nawlitePosted on2:57 pm - Aug 9, 2014


Well done on the exclusive. Would be great if TSFM could get some publicity from it. I see an announcement already on the BBC website but no mention of David’s interview with TSFM.

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ThomTheThimPosted on3:41 pm - Aug 9, 2014


Nawlite,

Just been reading back on the last thread and saw your draft letter to UEFA.

I’m not qualified to comment on style, etc., but I would like to mention that UEFA were made aware of the problem on Thursday afternoon, prior to the game.

Apparently, their Swiss delegate, Paul somebody, noticed the error.

Whether UEFA Legia of this or not,is moot.

Perhaps it is not in their remit to tip the wink to clubs who can’t / won’t adhere to the rule.

The only reason I am mentioning this is because it forms an important part of your case.

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ThomTheThimPosted on3:43 pm - Aug 9, 2014


*should read whether UEFA informed Legia.

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scottcPosted on3:51 pm - Aug 9, 2014


ThomTheThim says:
August 9, 2014 at 3:41 pm

Nawlite,

Just been reading back on the last thread and saw your draft letter to UEFA.

I’m not qualified to comment on style, etc., but I would like to mention that UEFA were made aware of the problem on Thursday afternoon, prior to the game.

Apparently, their Swiss delegate, Paul somebody, noticed the error.

Whether UEFA Legia of this or not,is moot.

Perhaps it is not in their remit to tip the wink to clubs who can’t / won’t adhere to the rule.

The only reason I am mentioning this is because it forms an important part of your case.

But they would not have anything to ‘tip the wink’ about. The player HAD to be included for his suspension to start counting. Including him was not the problem; playing him was. I guess the match official knew when he saw the squad that the guy was serving the second match of his ban and did not expect him to be brought on. When he was, the offical included the fact in his match report on Thursday. Legia should not have had him on the bench; only in the match squad.

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tcup 2012Posted on3:53 pm - Aug 9, 2014


Thom
There was no mistake for UEFA to tip a wink about. His name was ment to be in the squad

The mistake was not having his name in the squad the prior round

All squads must be submitted before the first leg of the tie takes place (25 players) and no player can be added for the tie after the first game kicks off
To serve a suspension the player must be in the squad as it is not just a punishment for the player but the team as the manager has less players to choose from the squad

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BigGavPosted on3:59 pm - Aug 9, 2014


ThomTheThim says:
August 9, 2014 at 3:41 pm

I’m not qualified to comment on style, etc., but I would like to mention that UEFA were made aware of the problem on Thursday afternoon, prior to the game.

—–

But the game was on Wednesday.

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Big PinkPosted on4:00 pm - Aug 9, 2014


I was not aware, until this Legia farce emerged, that (as I infer from comments) the player is included in the squad, but not eligible to participate.

As others have inferred, this punishes the team as well as the player.

However if a player is transferred whilst a ban is still in place, it seems unjust that his new club should be doubly punished in this way.

Are we absolutely certain that the requirement to be registered for games during a ban reduces the number of players a manager has to pick from during the game?

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scottcPosted on4:05 pm - Aug 9, 2014


Big Pink says:
August 9, 2014 at 4:00 pm
0 0 Rate This

He only had to be in the squad of 25. The team plus subs will be a further subset, so the punishment for the team is only one less person to select the team ‘on the night’.

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BigGavPosted on4:06 pm - Aug 9, 2014


Big Pink, I think there is confusion between the squad enrolled for the tie and the smaller number of those selected to participate in the match (as players or subs).
As I understand, a suspended player must be in the first group for his suspension to count, but not the second, so it doesn’t reduce the number of players available during the game.

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upthehoopsPosted on4:12 pm - Aug 9, 2014


My comments are relevant given the subject matter of this latest podcast. Hibernian, like Hearts and Rangers, are in the 2nd top league for a reason. Yet on Sportsound today Willie Miller came away with the baffling statement that apart from Aberdeen no-one could challenge Celtic, ‘because all the big guns are in the Championship’. I really don’t get his logic, and I really wish the BBC would reign in some of the sensationalist stuff we hear, which does not belong on publicly funded programmes. Tom English and Chick Young battered Celtic from pillar to post, aided and abetted by Billy Dodds. There was zero balance, which we are surely entitled to expect for our licence fee. I think every club deserves some objectivity when being debated, and I think all the clubs in the highest league deserve respect for being there in the first place.

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tcup 2012Posted on4:21 pm - Aug 9, 2014


Big pink
Sorry about that tried to edit but was to late
Should have read
Leaves the manger with only 24 players to pick from instead of 25
As for another team buying the player They are well aware of his/her suspension Before they buy

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ThomTheThimPosted on4:40 pm - Aug 9, 2014


Apologies to all for my screwed up versions of events.

Too many nuances and “ah buts”,in the situation.

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tcup 2012Posted on4:57 pm - Aug 9, 2014


Thom
No problem we have all done it 🙂

Besides this LW fault
They have played in Europe for many years So they know the rules and must have had player’s suspended before
It’s just a massive mistake on their part

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Bill1903Posted on5:00 pm - Aug 9, 2014


I must say unlike UTH I’ve enjoyed listening to Sportsound today.
I’m not sure what Jim Spence was drinking when he predicted that Aberdeen would win the league!

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AllyjamboPosted on5:01 pm - Aug 9, 2014


Looks like PMGB has put the kibosh on the Soros fun we were having.

http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/drive-in-manoeuvres/#more-4942

He also hints at a family not having the readies to purchase Green’s shares as previously arranged. Do you think he means Green has missed the bus?

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JimBhoyPosted on5:20 pm - Aug 9, 2014


I wonder if CG has an email from the Soros folk to back his claims?

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JimBhoyPosted on5:26 pm - Aug 9, 2014


CG wants paid, IA wants paid, CW wants paid…They must know the gullible can be gulled a wee bit more…

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wottpiPosted on5:27 pm - Aug 9, 2014


I see that the spreading the money around the lower divisions myth was partially burst again today on Sportsound. While Raith Rovers have managed to put in 500 extra seats in for visiting fans it was reported that Falkirk looked at the cost of additional temporary seating and said it wasn’t worth it (despite the ‘big 3’having multiple visits) and Dumbarton would have liked to add seats but planning regs re the additional crowd, parking,congestion etc wouldn’t allow them.

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woodsteinPosted on6:28 pm - Aug 9, 2014


http://www.tsfm.net/the-way-it-works/comment-page-22/#comment-26889
ekt1m says
From the DR this morning.
Uefa’s Swiss delegate Paul Krahenbuhl found out the discrepancy on Thursday afternoon and reported to Uefa.

Since I have mentioned a Scottish newspaper ?

http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/july-national-newspaper-abcs-all-titles-down-year-year-times-best-performing-second-month-running

and from

http://www.allmediascotland.com/press/68180/the-media-in-figures-sales-in-scotland-of-national-newspapers-2/

From the above would this be useful?

About us.

“We provide a platform to comment on the media

We welcome opinion pieces. If you have something to say about the media, we’ll happily consider it for publication. Our ambition is that all the media in Scotland embrace allmediascotland as theirs; the place to share thoughts and wisdom.”

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parttimearabPosted on8:43 pm - Aug 9, 2014


Enjoyed the podcast but I think David Low is being a tad optimistic regarding the levelling effect of “debt free” Scottish football.

Back in the seventies/eighties no Bosman and Scottish clubs could compete (wage wise) with most second tier English clubs.

Celtic may well drop back a bit financially and there may be some catch up from the other clubs but (IMO) this process will take at least five years or more for any other club to put in a genuine league challenge.

It might be that the fans of these clubs will have given up before then.

Change will need to be manufactured, we won’t get a competitive league through a “natural” balancing.

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John ClarkPosted on10:13 pm - Aug 9, 2014


I have just listened to the BP/David Low podcast, and again thoroughly enjoyed the calm, reasoned and reasoning tone of the discussion, particularly having listened earlier in the afternoon to the BBC tape of CG’s latest lunatic ramblings.
On Low’s consortium’s bid, I think all of us, and Hibs supporters in particular, can rest easy that Sir Tom farmer is no panic-stricken, fearful debtor, labouring under a mountain of anticipated tax debt, and desperate to off-load his guilt and responsibility to a rip-off asset-stripper. He has no need to sell, and has made it plain that he will check the credentials and bona fides of any bidder through the lens of what is best for Hibs.
And Low’s consortium will likewise do ‘due diligence’ before committing themselves.
And Low’s comments about the need for continuity of the structures that are already in place and for continuity of key personnel is re-assuring.I imagine that Sir Tom will have regard to ensuring that those comments will have to be satisfactorily firmed up in any deal that is made. I think Leeanne and Stubbs can relax-their jobs will be safe if the consortium succeeds.

Well done to the production team.

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paulsatimPosted on11:02 pm - Aug 9, 2014


Re Soros,from Phil

http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/drive-in-manoeuvres/

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Galling fiverPosted on11:05 pm - Aug 9, 2014


Ally you are IM sure right on the money, which is not doon the back’o ra two seater.

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CastofthousandsPosted on11:19 pm - Aug 9, 2014


That’s the first podcast I’ve sat down and listened to the whole way through (I was pfaffing about with spreadsheets at the time however).

Well done to TSFM for getting the scoop. I wonder if it will be in the redtops tomorrow?

I thought Low talked well. He had a fresh outlook and a raison d’etre behind his plan. He sees an opportunity currently that might not stick around over the medium term so is looking to take advantage. I’d imagine Hibs fans will be interested to hear what he has said and gratified that he has been prepared to talk at length about his ambitions.

He did touch on wider issues of sporting governance without revealing too much of his own opinions. Reading between the lines though you can tell that much of the ire that has been expressed on TSFM is recognised by David Low. He ameliorates the general outrage by indicating that many clubs felt that Rangers needed to be accommodated though he see that in a new reality such accommodation may not be so forthcoming in future.

I found that all rather informative.

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JimBhoyPosted on11:38 pm - Aug 9, 2014


Seems McMurdo is sold on Soros, not about money but…..!!!! Sugar Daddy central, anything to get them to the top table regardless of what they sell in the meantime…Usually the soul of the club….It seems Soros is a bit of a philanthropist, that’s the only reason he would invest in rangers….Compassionate needs…

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CastofthousandsPosted on11:41 pm - Aug 9, 2014


Encouraged and facilitated by Scott C, I’ve been setting about doing some statistical analysis on referee performance. I’ve got basic data on over 2000 games between 2000 and 2010 that were officiated by a group of 50 referees. That means I will have about 40 games per ref which should be sufficient to show some individual traits. Some of the refs names however appear not to have been correctly transcribed so I need to verify their identities.

Is there a database of Scottish referees 2000 to 2010 I could dip into?

There are only a few anomalies and perhaps contributors or lurkers will know the answers.

1. Most of the C Thomson’s appear without a ‘p’ but ten are rendered as Thompson. Is this the same guy or two different ones.

2. Most of the K Clark’s do not end in ‘e’ but I have about ten that do. Again, is this two different guys or are we probably talking about only one gentlemen of that name.

3. I’ve got one D Orr whereas all the rest are R Orr. This must be the same guy but it would be nice to have confirmation.

4. I’ve got loads of D Somers but also two D Summers and one S Somers. Three guys, two guys or one guy?

5. I’ve got one S MacDonald and one S McDonald. Should these in fact be D McDonald’s?

6. I’ve changed about ten D Mac Donalds to Mc Donalds. Would this be right?

7. T M McCurry must be M McCurry I take it.

I’d be grateful for any assistance.

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theoldcoursePosted on11:41 pm - Aug 9, 2014


wottpi says:
August 9, 2014 at 5:27 pm

While Raith Rovers have managed to put in 500 extra seats in for visiting fans
================================================

To be fair the 500 extra seats are not new. They are in the railway stand at Starks Park and all that was needed was a wee tart up of the stand and bolting the seats back down again. A wee inspection for the safety certificate and Bobs yer Auntie (unless he had bawz in which case he’d be yer uncle). They’ve also only opened half of the railway stand as the remaining part was considered to need too much work to be ready in time.

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JimBhoyPosted on11:43 pm - Aug 9, 2014


CG is perfect for the rangers fans… A blow torch wouldnt make a mark on that neck and he knows the triggers to whip the bears up to fever point… Backed by a compliant MSM and a toothless sfa/spfl, it’s real easy for the yorkshire man to run amok…

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JimBhoyPosted on11:47 pm - Aug 9, 2014


I am told that if the soros thing doesn’t work out for CG he had Bill Gates and Warren Buffett in reserve..

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buckfastswallierPosted on1:13 am - Aug 10, 2014


Castofthousands says:
August 9, 2014 at 11:41 pm

2

0

Rate This

Encouraged and facilitated by Scott C, I’ve been setting about doing some statistical analysis on referee performance. I’ve got basic data on over 2000 games between 2000 and 2010 that were officiated by a group of 50 referees. That means I will have about 40 games per ref which should be sufficient to show some individual traits. Some of the refs names however appear not to have been correctly transcribed so I need to verify their identities.

Excellent mate, i can do numbers etc if needed.

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easyJamboPosted on1:43 am - Aug 10, 2014


The London Hearts site has referee stats for Hearts games so you should at least get the names of referees from the period you are looking at.

http://www.londonhearts.com/scores/ref/refs.htm

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RyanGoslingPosted on1:45 am - Aug 10, 2014


All of the skeptical comments here are misplaced, I’m afraid to say. You’re all wrong. As was I yesterday when I poured scorn on it. The fact of the matter is that Charles Green has a £10m investment ready for Rangers. I saw it on the back page of The Sun. It must be true.

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upthehoopsPosted on8:16 am - Aug 10, 2014


Bill1903 says:
August 9, 2014 at 5:00 pm
13 0 Rate This

I must say unlike UTH I’ve enjoyed listening to Sportsound today.
I’m not sure what Jim Spence was drinking when he predicted that Aberdeen would win the league!
========================================
Glad you enjoyed it Bill, unlike me. That’s one of the joys of living in a free world!

Jim Spence probably based his theory on how gash Celtic were over the two Legia games compared to the showing Aberdeen put up in their Euro ties. If Aberdeen were to play Celtic tomorrow, who could blame them for fancying their chances. I’m sure St Johnstone, even minus Stevie May, will feel they have a chance on Wednesday. Who knows how it will pan out over the season.

Going back to my original point, I just don’t get Willie Miller’s assertion that teams in the 2nd top league would be challenging for the top league this season if they were in it. ‘Celtic are rubbish, but these teams are good’ seemed to be his theory. Bizarre, utterly bizarre, and totally unbecoming of a man of his experience and standing in the game!

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Bill1903Posted on8:54 am - Aug 10, 2014


I heard it slightly differently but I wasn’t sitting taking notes.
We’ve all got our favourite and least favourite pundits and I’m sure some talk first think later(Chic obviously and Alan Preston really wind me up)
To be honest I wasn’t too keen on the ‘praise’ of Aberdeen. We were almost a certainty to be second according to the pundits.
Our bubble is far more likely to be pricked than Celtics that’s for sure!
McCall whatever you think of him continues to work miracles on his budget and Dundee United could do very well indeed.
The fact that 3 of the countries best supported clubs are in the lower league can’t be denied though.
Football wise we won’t miss the worst Hibs team in my memory,Hearts under 21’s and the Ramsden cup runners up!!

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torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958)Posted on9:30 am - Aug 10, 2014


Morning all.
Seems like the Herald online are reporting Soros are denying any involvement with Green.No surprise there then.
Meanwhile,over on KDS,one of their sources and they say they’ve confirmation,is claiming that a Statutory Demand was served on Rangers on Friday.
Make of it what you will.
Add Phils latest,including AIM calling on the RFC Nomad and things don’t look too rosy down Edminston Drive.

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Elsie GarciaPosted on10:00 am - Aug 10, 2014


Morning, first time poster but long time lurker and admirer of you all, way back to RTC days. I’m a Hibs fan pleased to see something positive finally being said proposed for us. David Low sounds like a good guy but I guess we’ll just have to wait and see. Well done to Big Pink for the interview. More power to your elbow! Thoroughly enjoy all the information I glean and things that I learn from this well run and wonderfully populated site.

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wottpiPosted on10:04 am - Aug 10, 2014


upthehoops & Bill1903

I wasn’t taking notes either but did hear everyone to a man (except Jim Spence) say it was going to be a squoosh for Celtic 1st Aberdeen 2nd.

Yet still people aren’t happy 🙂

I am sure fans of the other 40 senior clubs would love to have the pundits confidently predict such success.

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Carfins FinestPosted on10:04 am - Aug 10, 2014


It would appear that Celtic ’emerged from elimination’ in the Champions League..

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indy14Posted on10:05 am - Aug 10, 2014


I did raise the possibility of monitoring results and how they fall depending on goals disallowed, sending offs and penalties that have direct influence on a game involving the THE rangers, and I am but catching up as I have been on my woggers!

Week 1 game 1 – formerly Ramsdens cup THE rangers 1 – Hibs 1 ET The rangers win 2-1 after “controversial sending off of Hibs player (as described in paper)

And as we know nothing controversial happened with Celtic at all….nothin to see here….. move along 😉

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wottpiPosted on10:40 am - Aug 10, 2014


torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958) says:
August 10, 2014 at 9:30 am

The problem for me in this whole debacle is that everything you have said has been said before.

We have now had two years plus of unpaid bills, unhappy creditors, Hector threatening, asbestos, Green, Whyte, Court battles, AIM suspension/action, sale and leaseback, dropping crowds etc.

The fact remains that a team in Blue will still open its league campaign at a ground in Govan – probably in front of a very large crowd.

I have no doubt there are many issues to be resolved and Wonga loans have been acquired a few months back and further cash is required now but I just have that sneaky suspicion T’Rangers are going nowhere any time soon.

Of course the whole thing could blow up at any time given no-one really knows for sure what is going on. However I have a feeling that they will just keep rolling along by getting just enough cash in through the doors at the required times.

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Bill1903Posted on11:21 am - Aug 10, 2014


Forgive me if I’m sceptical of the impending doom down Ibrox way.

Been here many times before (bloke on KFC’s brother is a judge and knows for a fact they’ll go bust this week,Phil saying that sources say the AIM aren’t too happy,Ibrox about to fall down according to my neighbour who knows an engineer chap.Shares will drop to a tanner this week etc etc etc)

Meanwhile everything carries on as normal sort of 😆

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AllyjamboPosted on11:45 am - Aug 10, 2014


wottpi says:
August 10, 2014 at 10:40 am

‘no-one really knows for sure what is going on.’
————————————

And I’m sure that goes for everyone in the boardroom in Ibrox!

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Matty RothPosted on11:54 am - Aug 10, 2014


I’m sure this has probably been posted before and I missed it, but just in case:

http://news.stv.tv/west-central/285509-hmrc-confirms-it-will-appeal-oldco-rangers-big-tax-case-ruling/

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AllyjamboPosted on12:04 pm - Aug 10, 2014


http://www.heraldscotland.com/mobile/news/home-news/green-tale-of-soros-10m-for-rangers-is-dismissed.24999430

Looks like the Herald’s readership figures are about to take a hit 🙄

‘THE billionaire financier who teamed up with a former Rangers investor to break the Bank of England has distanced himself from claims that he is involved in a £10 million investment bid at Ibrox.’

Still not able to actually lead with accuracy, though, as they clarify where their information came from as ‘sources close to George Soros’. Not doubting the accuracy of the ‘sources’ information (it makes the utmost sense), but can our MSM ever just report things factually without trying to make it look like they’ve got a scoop from the big cheese himself?

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Matty RothPosted on12:05 pm - Aug 10, 2014


upthehoops says:
August 10, 2014 at 8:16 am
24 1 Rate This

Bill1903 says:
August 9, 2014 at 5:00 pm
13 0 Rate This

I must say unlike UTH I’ve enjoyed listening to Sportsound today.
I’m not sure what Jim Spence was drinking when he predicted that Aberdeen would win the league!
========================================
Glad you enjoyed it Bill, unlike me. That’s one of the joys of living in a free world!

Jim Spence probably based his theory on how gash Celtic were over the two Legia games compared to the showing Aberdeen put up in their Euro ties. If Aberdeen were to play Celtic tomorrow, who could blame them for fancying their chances. I’m sure St Johnstone, even minus Stevie May, will feel they have a chance on Wednesday. Who knows how it will pan out over the season.

Going back to my original point, I just don’t get Willie Miller’s assertion that teams in the 2nd top league would be challenging for the top league this season if they were in it. ‘Celtic are rubbish, but these teams are good’ seemed to be his theory. Bizarre, utterly bizarre, and totally unbecoming of a man of his experience and standing in the game!

===================

I didn’t here it UTH but if Miller and Spence were seriously tipping Aberdeen to challenge Celtic they have completely lost the plot. The gap between Celtic and rest is huge.

As a dons fan myself, I’m really uncomfortable with once single season of relative success suddenly being the catalyst for dramatic claims of what the future holds. The fans have surely experienced enough years of disappointment to get so carried away after one season.

Personally I’d be very happy with another top 4 finish and a decent attempt in the cups.

Spence and Miller are usually two of the more sensible voices on Sportsound so not sure what they are thinking.

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Bill1903Posted on12:10 pm - Aug 10, 2014


Miller tipped us for second but more than 20 points behind which everyone except Spency and Chic agreed with.

If Aberdeen or any other team were close at Christmas I’m sure Celtic would just loosen the purse strings and spend a few quid to ensure they won the league.

It’s a one horse league and that’s not going to change for a while yet

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upthehoopsPosted on12:32 pm - Aug 10, 2014


Bill1903 says:
August 10, 2014 at 8:54 am

To be honest I wasn’t too keen on the ‘praise’ of Aberdeen. We were almost a certainty to be second according to the pundits.
Our bubble is far more likely to be pricked than Celtics that’s for sure!
===========================================

I have no issue at all with Aberdeen being praised. A lot has changed with that club over the past year and they are definitely on the up. Perhaps I’m misty eyed because I remember when Aberdeen and Celtic went toe to toe for the league and Rangers were simply also rans! If Celtic don’t improve and Aberdeen keep improving then there could be a league challenge.

I agree perhaps McCall doesn’t fully get the credit he deserves for the job he has done for Motherwell.

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upthehoopsPosted on12:50 pm - Aug 10, 2014


Bill1903 says:
August 10, 2014 at 11:21 am
12 0 Rate This

Forgive me if I’m sceptical of the impending doom down Ibrox way.

Been here many times before (bloke on KFC’s brother is a judge and knows for a fact they’ll go bust this week,Phil saying that sources say the AIM aren’t too happy,Ibrox about to fall down according to my neighbour who knows an engineer chap.Shares will drop to a tanner this week etc etc etc)

Meanwhile everything carries on as normal sort of 😆
=====================================

Bill, I am in doubt at all that Police and Ambulance services will be ordered to work for free again in the event of another administration. I am in no doubt at all if taxes once again went unpaid they would remain so, and various people would demand HMRC should be happy with a few pence in the pound. I am in no doubt at all that Rangers will survive anything that happens to it, and will be allowed to brag their history remains intact no matter what.

Everything carries on as normal because they are completely untouchable in the way any other club would not be. All footballing and governing authorities have made it that way.

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sumproductPosted on12:57 pm - Aug 10, 2014


August 6, 2014 at 10:48 pm
39 0 Rate This

@castofthousands

Here’s the post you mentioned.

For those wondering just how Rangers might fund themselves in the short to mid-term, it’s worth a look at what former finance director Brian Stockbridge is up to now.

His latest venture, International Financial Strategic Associates has some interesting board members, notably Sanjeev Verma, non-executive director of Just Cashflow PLC, essentially a Wonga for distressed business.

But what is also interesting is Verma is the contact for the shares in Rangers held by Margarita Funds Holding Trust, shares which Alexander Easdale holds the voting rights to and which are held in trust for the unnamed offshore holder by Beaufort Nominees Ltd, part of Beaufort Securities where Verma is also a managing director.
http://internationalfsa.com/the-team/

Another team player in the new Stockbridge venture is Daniel Confino, formerly of Close Brothers Asset Finance. He’s currently building a business to provide legal access for high volume, low value claims.

George Boot is another to join the Stockbridge team, though he omits to mention he is also finance director of Just Loans PLC, which is the parent company of Just Cash Flow PLC only on its website he uses his middle name Robert. https://www.just-loans.com/investor

So, Rangers are now looking to raise £4m from existing shareholders after a bid to raise more in the City fell on deaf ears. It would be surprising to see major shareholders like Blue Pitch and Margarita putting their own money up to increase their stake, but you never know.

In the meantime, convincing Deloitte they have enough cash to see out the season may come at a hefty price, and if anything like Wonga rates, not a price they can afford. One has to wonder what could possibly be used as security?

Sure Stockbridge will put in a good word. He surely owes Rangers that much, given how generous the club was to him.

Verma is the go-to man for Blue Pitch, according to this stock market filing http://www.londonstockexchange.com/exchange/news/market-news/market-news-detail.html?announcementId=11716980

And here he is again for Margarita http://www.investegate.co.uk/rangers-int-f-c–plc/rns/holding-in-company/201309201746395830O/

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Madbhoy24941Posted on1:17 pm - Aug 10, 2014


wottpi says:
August 10, 2014 at 10:40 am

I have no doubt there are many issues to be resolved and Wonga loans have been acquired a few months back and further cash is required now but I just have that sneaky suspicion T’Rangers are going nowhere any time soon.

Of course the whole thing could blow up at any time given no-one really knows for sure what is going on. However I have a feeling that they will just keep rolling along by getting just enough cash in through the doors at the required times.

———————————–

I agree, something seismic has to occur to balance the books but Administration is not it.

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JimBhoyPosted on1:29 pm - Aug 10, 2014


@Bill1903 Meanwhile everything carries on as normal sort of.

It is indeed some kind of normal… I am sure the vast majority of the bears deep down know where they are, however the majority of that vast majority only know one way of gaining success and that is by spending money they do not have or money that belongs elsewhere. Hence the need for a saviour who is daft with his cash… Unfortunately they are now a little few and far between and one look under the hood should send anyone who has built up a fortune to turn on their heels. Not so much a business as a siphon. Only a business opportunity for spivs who see a short term gain with just enough and mirror play to get them in and out for the next set of spivs to come in..And so everything carries on as normal…. :mrgreen:

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JimBhoyPosted on1:36 pm - Aug 10, 2014


CG will be around for a few weeks then DK will take over. Waldo and Somers will be working their ticket soon to get their pay offs as the next set of spivs and associates are moved in, cue Limahl and “never ending story”, maybe a movie for the car park..

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John ClarkPosted on1:44 pm - Aug 10, 2014


Allyjambo says:
August 10, 2014 at 12:04 pm
‘..Still not able to actually lead with accuracy, though, as they clarify where their information came from as ‘sources close to George Soros’….. can our MSM ever just report things factually without trying to make it look like they’ve got a scoop from the big cheese himself?#
—–
Short answer, NO. Chick is not the only Chick to try to claim credit where no credit is due!
I have already chided Martin Williams (who appears to have written the article in question) for his rather cavalier attitude to truth in another context.
Our SMSM hacks appear not to realise that these days, the rest of us can spot a phoney a mile off, and have quickly learned to distrust and deride phoney, partisan ‘reporters’ and the journals/radio stations they may write for or speak on.

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Danish PastryPosted on2:54 pm - Aug 10, 2014


Seems Legia are suffering big time. First CL place in 17 years gone within hours of it being won. Sackings to follow.

Apparently they are writing an appeal to Celtic ‘to do the right thing’ and give up their CL place with a grand sporting gesture.

A grand gesture like that would, imo, be the right thing to do. Easy for me to say, not being a Celtic supporter (although a Scottish football supporter, and as such, fan of all of our teams in Europe), but what a message that would send about fair play and sporting justice.

In a way, it would also strengthen the case for seeking genuine restitution for the very real cheating years in Scottish football by the liquidated club, which did have an effect on the outcome of games, titles, and financial rewards.

Is Celtic a sports club or a corporate enterprise? Bit of a dilemma.

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Danish PastryPosted on3:34 pm - Aug 10, 2014


Initial reports I heard were wrong, apparently. Legia want a one-off game to settle matter. Hmmm …

Think rather a grand sporting gesture from Celtic would be the right thing, in the circumstances, not a one-off match.

Difficult not to feel huge sympathy for this letter of appeal:

http://legia.com/news,42995-list_dariusza_mioduskiego_do_celtiku_glasgow.html

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coineanachantaighePosted on3:37 pm - Aug 10, 2014


upthehoops says:
August 10, 2014 at 8:16 am

========================

Unfortunately sometimes these guys feel they are expected to say certain things or take certain attitudes when they get these gigs and tend to disengage their brains. These teams are in the Championship because they weren’t good enough to stay in the top league. Even without their points punishment Hearts would only have been in the lower part of the bottom six.

Regarding how strong Celtic are this year. Aberdeen (for instance) may have a stronger 1st eleven but Celtic have a bigger, stronger squad. Over the season that will give them an advantage unless their opponents are lucky with injuries and suspensions. And there is still time to spend some of the £10 million.

We may see a closer run league though and that would be a good thing.

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John ClarkPosted on3:49 pm - Aug 10, 2014


Danish Pastry says:
August 10, 2014 at 2:54 pm
‘..Apparently they are writing an appeal to Celtic ‘to do the right thing’ and give up their CL place with a grand sporting gesture.’
——
And I have emailed Legia Warsawa letting them know ( if they did not already know)that Celtic , having themselves been the victims of serial rule-breaking of eligibility rules by another Scottish team against whom the rules were not properly enforced, can really only be expected to say tough-t.!! Even if, unlike SDM’s cheating, Legia’s rule-breaking may have been accidental.

There is no real excuse for shoddy paper-work and carelessness in matters of critical importance. Volunteer club secretaries get hammered: highly paid professional clubs should expect no more favourable treatment.
And asking an opponent to pardon your mistakes is asking a bit too much.In my opinion.

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JimBhoyPosted on4:00 pm - Aug 10, 2014


@Danish my first post on the matter a few days back suggested i was gutted for Legia, it is an admin error and no getting away from how poor celtic played. I agree the ruling is very harsh but it is a clear ruling unlike what we see often by certain football authorities and therefore a good thing. The rule could allow the beaten side a way to hand back the tie cleanly but I do not think it does.

Berg’s at fault here, he supplied 25 players in his squad for the tournament and he has a teamsheet to fill out each game and include and note a suspended player in that team, it is exactly the same as boy’s football, it is a rudimentary error and there is no blaming anyone else other than the manager who should know the rules.

A letter attempting to force celtic into action,ie, to disrespect competition rules is very unprofessional imo. Legia have a complaint against the competition organisers and therefore should concentrate on that line, just my opinion.

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Danish PastryPosted on4:01 pm - Aug 10, 2014


John Clark says:
August 10, 2014 at 3:49 pm
1 0 Rate This
———

Did their letter make no impression on you John?

What if UEFA allowed for Celtic to apply compassion and fairness, without punishment?

I know you can go back to the Rapid Vienna outrage, the serial cheating by the liquidated club, but here is a unique opportunity to make huge statement about what sport is all about — well, maybe I’m too idealistic … what it used to be about.

Believe me, I will wish Celtic every success in their next mach, whoever they play. But there is something really unsporting about this set of circumstances. I don’t believe rules should be bent or changed, but I believe there should be a place for an opponent to react to an obvious sporting injustice.

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sickofitallPosted on4:02 pm - Aug 10, 2014


Quote:
Originally Posted by KeanoBhoy88
Celtic to turn down request from Legia Warsaw for a one-off match to decide who will play in the Champions League #BBCsportscot

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readceltPosted on4:03 pm - Aug 10, 2014


Well played the Jam tarts. This could be a very interesting season in the championship.

Tricky derby at Tyncastle next could determine the early front runners in the league.

I don’t fancy The Rangers away to Falkirk much so there are interesting times ahead.

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JimBhoyPosted on4:07 pm - Aug 10, 2014


@JC We get a £15 fine for not including a player’s POSTCODE on an Under 16’s team sheet. The same team sheet has a piece for suspended players you want to register for the game. If in doubt a simple phone call to the competition administrators would clarify things..

IMO regardless of who puts the team sheet together, the manager should check and know who is eligible..Maybe Berg did not know suspended players had to be game registered to run down the suspension, if so then the blame lies squarely with him IMO…

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woodsteinPosted on4:07 pm - Aug 10, 2014


John Clark says:

August 10, 2014 at 3:49 pm

At last the voice of sanity.

——————————————————————————————-

Can someone explain to me (I don’t follow a football team, have been to no more than 8 football games in 64 years, a complete ignoramus in other words) but how do Celtic, or any other club for that matter appeal against the decision to award them the place?) wherz the roolz that allow this? or would they just be made up or bent? What exactly would UEFA say/do?

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scottcPosted on4:08 pm - Aug 10, 2014


Danish Pastry says:
August 10, 2014 at 4:01 pm
0 0 Rate This

John Clark says:
August 10, 2014 at 3:49 pm
1 0 Rate This
———

Did their letter make no impression on you John?

The added problem is, though, that Celtic were seeded in the draw, I believe. Legia would not have been so the draw would have to be re-done. It’s a non-starter

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Danish PastryPosted on4:11 pm - Aug 10, 2014


JimBhoy says:
August 10, 2014 at 4:00 pm
1 0 Rate This

… The rule could allow the beaten side a way to hand back the tie cleanly but I do not think it does.
———

Agreed. It’s a pity the opportunity is not available. This situation is so different from the Sion event, if my memory serves me correct. On that occasion I believe Sion did benefit from the ineligible players.

Anyway, my unstated point was about how proud it would make me to see such a sporting gesture by the champions of my native land. I am convinced it would be the correct thing to do, if possible to arrange without incurring an absurd penalty.

It ain’t gonna happen, though. I shall return to utopia 🙂

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JimBhoyPosted on4:16 pm - Aug 10, 2014


@Sickofitall
Quote:
Originally Posted by KeanoBhoy88
Celtic to turn down request from Legia Warsaw for a one-off match to decide who will play in the Champions League #BBCsportscot…….

If that were part of the UEFA rules I would be more than happy with that option as the ruling on Legia is harsh but I do not think it is an option in the current rule book. BBC Sport should know that. Celtic can’t turn down a game that can never happen under the current competition rules for a team expelled..Usual crap journalism.

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tcup 2012Posted on4:17 pm - Aug 10, 2014


Why would Celtic even consider a 1 off game?

LW would have everything to gain and Nothing to lose
All this letter says is LW know any appeal they make doesn’t have a leg to stand on

And why all the Celtic should do this or UEFA should do that on the blog?

All I can say is
Well done UEFA for applying the rules Without Fear or Favor 🙂

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JimBhoyPosted on4:18 pm - Aug 10, 2014


@Danish I fully understand, maybe some good will come of it with a rule change to allow a more fair conclusion…Not holding my breath.

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Danish PastryPosted on4:34 pm - Aug 10, 2014


tcup 2012 says:
August 10, 2014 at 4:17 pm
2 0 Rate This

And why all the Celtic should do this or UEFA should do that on the blog?
———-

Because it’s The Scottish Football Monitor and this is an event involving our national game that will be monitored across Europe.

Legia have made a final, desperate appeal to UEFA and to CFC citing fair play and natural justice. I have a great deal of sympathy for those principles.

I don’t envisage huge sympathy across Europe for Celtic’s slightly absurd participation in the upcoming CL play-off.

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JimBhoyPosted on4:39 pm - Aug 10, 2014


Mioduski revealed the club were still awaiting justification of the decision from the UEFA commission, insisting they would appeal and “exhaust the appeal process”.

“We try to get in touch with our friends at Celtic, but I don’t know whether I can call them that anymore. The management of that club is going against the values that I believe they had at that club. Why have we? Because there is a clear regulation that if the two clubs come to the conclusion between them then UEFA will accept that and it is likely we will continue playing, but Celtic has to effectively stand by their ethics and do what is right.

“Our message to Celtic? Be a man and get in touch so we can come to some sort of conclusion like men should.”

— A clear regulation ??? The only clear regulation was that they were expelled and as another poster commented earlier the draw would have to be redone due to seedings unless there is another clear regulation that states that this can take place. I am sure the big boys in the next round draw would give that their backing, maybe Mr Miouduski should contact them all with a heart felt letter rhyming off part of each club’s history whilst forgetting the only other party involved here is UEFA…Competition integrity is at stake and for that matter there will be no change.

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StevieBCPosted on4:48 pm - Aug 10, 2014


The Legia case is unfortunate, especially as it seems that Celtic was so poor in both ties and Legia was deserving to go through, as the aggregate score confirms.

But, I can’t help remembering as a kid in my teens when I had a team manager who seemed to have a specialised skill in identifying ‘ringers’ in opposition teams who shouldn’t have been playing. It was only if his team lost the game that he would complain and get awarded the win. [I think it only happened once in my time in the team, IIRC, but I did think at the time that it was still a bit unsporting.]

But the point is that if team managers do that at amateur level, then it must be expected that at professional level you absolutely must comply with all paperwork, regardless.

An expensive mistake for Legia – and one that they will never repeat, I’m sure.

[And – money aside – not sure if it’s great for Celtic either as the Europa league group stage might have been a more suitable target for this season.]

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