A consortium led by David Low has been in talks with Sir Tom Farmer seeking to purchase Hibernian Football Club. The story has been embargoed for a few weeks, but David agreed to speak to TSFM to give us an exclusive interview and provide us with information about his intentions for the Edinburgh club.
Highlights of the interview include the similarities and differences between the Hibs situation and the one he found at Celtic Pak in 1994; how Scottish Football’s “new level playing field” as Low calls it has created an opportunity for a club like Hibs to be the main challenger to Celtic for honours; the contrast of his consortium’s approach to that of the recent debacle at Ibrox; the role of the fans at every level of the club; the future of Allan Stubbs and Leanne Dempster; and the journey back to the Premiership.
Low is frank about his reputation as a well-known Celtic fan, but highlights his Hibbee credentials and his affection for the club, eschewing the “I was always a Hibbee” line taken by so many people seeking to ingratiate themselves with the locals at various clubs.
Certainly, the experience and finance rolling around Low’s consortium is something that any club could do with, but the fans are crucial to their involvement and interest.
He says he won’t go ahead with the purchase unless the fans are behind them.
“Fans have never been so powerful as they are today, especially with the advent of social media like TSFM”
“We have seen in recent years what a body of fans are capable of when they re together”
“We want to have that togetherness at Hibs, because the only way forward is to have trust between the boardroom and the fans, you only have to look at the levels of distrust between board and fans at Rangers to see that it is a recipe for disaster”
yourhavingalaugh says:
September 4, 2014 at 3:19 pm
Just what are the highly paid custodians of our game actually getting paid for,the time has long passed when they should have stepped in and asked the questions that all rangers fan’s are entitled to know the answers to ,but still they bury their highly paid in the money trough. Thisridiculous treatment of the rangers fan’s must stop now
================================
I am a bit bemused that the TRFC fans have not had another organised march on Hampden to demand answers.
The only certainty is that the TRFC board will not give the fans the info they want: they still don’t know who is behind Margarita & Blue Pitch for example.
If they don’t get anything from the board they could direct their frustrations at the SFA, who ‘should’ have an obligation to at least listern and then provide some assistance to the paying fans, [I know..].
scapaflow says: September 4, 2014 at 4:20 pm
————————
At the bottom of each, it states that the Licence Holder is Rangers Retail
FIFA has approved the Guidetti loan, fax machines have indeed improved over the last few years
easyJambo says:
September 4, 2014 at 4:31 pm
EJ it does indeed, missed that! Christ, what a bloody mess this whole business is
easyJambo says:
September 4, 2014 at 4:31 pm
scapaflow says:
September 4, 2014 at 4:35 pm
I think that means the trademarks are owned by TRFC ltd but that Rangers Retail have a Licence from them to use the trademarks in their merchandise.
The_Pie_Man says:
September 4, 2014 at 4:39 pm
Think so, which then brings us to length and terms of the licencing contract
The end date of the TMs vary, some are renewable others may not be. That doesn’t tell us the licencing period for each though.
A list of the various TMs here:
http://www.ipo.gov.uk/tmownerid/search?domain=1&id=267202&app=0&mark=UK00002226670
If you google the address of Rangers retail, Sports Direct appears to operate from the same industrial unit.
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=Unit+A%2C+Brook+Park+Estate%2C+Shirebrook%2C+United+Kingdom%2C+NG20+8RY
scapaflow says:
September 4, 2014 at 2:00 pm
8 1 Rate This
Matty Roth says:
September 4, 2014 at 1:54 pm
Some good sense here. But.
One of the biggest problem the Ranger’s support has, is that the myriad of factions, hate each other only slightly less than they dislike everyone else. Getting a united fans group to stay together looks a positively Herculean task.
==========================================
Yes I agree.
So they better get finding Hercules I guess.
I have a funny feeling he is out there somewhere, and when they finally stumble upon this saviour they might just have a chance.
But I’ll say one thing, he or she is not necessarily the biggest sugar daddy or anything like it.
They desperately need a leader of some genuine humility and honesty and the strength to see this through.
I have to admit all this badge talk, has me wanting to comment.
I always thought it odd, that all this time TRFC have been wearing clothing of another, wearing name badge of another, using the house slippers of another and smoking a pipe of another, but yet aren’t the other, I always found puzzling isofaras that no-one from HMRC or any other governing body or debtor has stepped in to say “haud oan a minute pal” Why hasn’t a facepainter postman or ambulabnce man stood up and says “yer no gettin away wi’ it” even if the SFA won’t? Surely there’s a case for fraud on a grand scale here? has BDO advised all the creditors “not to waorry we’ll get them?”
Now I’m not one for the intricacies of this whole charade, although I have many years of following this an RTC under my belt and can conifdently say I’ve forgotten far more than I can remember, but the “ownership” of every money-earning aspect of CG’s “history” really really doesnt surprise me.
Just wanted to say that…… ahhhhhhhh
@mcfc
OK – did a quick shuftie of Rangers trade marks. There are various graphic crests and also separate ones stating: Glasgow Rangers Football Club; Glasgow Rangers FC; Rangers News; Ibrox; Follow Follow; Rangers; Gers; The Gers; Broxi Bear; and a couple of Broxi Bear images.
You’ll note that contrary to what I said Follow Follow is now a Rangers TM – so Murray must have won but it was back in August 2000 – that’s my excuse and nothing to do with faulty memory 😳
It seems that an exclusive licenses have been issued for every TRFCL TM to Rangers Retail Ltd but I assume that’s normal as they are producing kit and branded goods.
However it seems all the licences issued to Rangers Retail Ltd are dated 31 July 2012 which is the date the company was incorporated as SDI NEWCO NO.1 LIMITED. It didn’t actually get renamed Rangers Retail Ltd until 14 August 2012 and Green and Stockbridge didn’t join as directors until 28 August 2014.
There appears to be no TMs in the name of Rangers Retail Ltd and I also have been unable to find any in Green’s name. Although there could be something listed under a company name.
Confirmation of tomorrow’s Imran Ahmad case from the Court of Session Rolls.
https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/current-business/court-rolls/court-roll?id=e46ba7a6-8980-69d2-b500-ff0000d74aa7
Friday 5 September 2014
Lord Stewart
Court 4 at 10.00 am
Procedural First Hearing
P726/14 Koween Abdi for Judicial Review
P: Drummond Miller; D: Office of the Advocate General
P708/14 Hazrat Gul for Judicial Review
P: unrepresented D: Office of the Advocate General
Continued Motions
P755/14 Sally Ann Cameron or Harper or Letley for suspension & interdict
Halliday Campbell; Balfour & Manson
CA131/13 Imran Ahmad v RFC
BBM Solicitors; DWF LLP
rhapsodyinblue says:
September 4, 2014 at 2:31 pm
3 36 Rate This
Thanks to Castofthousands September 4, 2014 at 12:31 pm
and
Matty Roth, September 4, 2014 at 1:54 pm
for you considered and thoughtful replies. I think you may be correct it may take drastic steps to regain control. I already see things that were the holy grail and not being discussed now actually being given an airing, and with this latest news being the final straw it may open the minds more.
Certainly in my view I would rather take the club to the brink than see it limp on in its present state with people who see us as cash cow.
I have not been to a game this season nor have my friends and I will not return until they have gone.
Thanks for treating my question as a football fan.
That said I do not give credence to any information to the character named Phil, a truly obsessed individual, whose only raison d’etre is to dance on our grave.
========================================
Rhaps
You got quite a few thumbs down to this post and I’m certain that was largely because of the sideswipe at Phil M.
You might have noted my point about learning to recognise the real source of your clubs problems and I think maybe you demonstrated a little more might be needed in that regard.
I get that it really hurts Rangers fans to read some hard truths, it must be horrible.
But its no good “shooting” or abusing the messenger.
The word “obsessed” is over used so much its tiresome. Its a journalists job to seek and publish the truth. That’s not obsessive.
If lapdogs like in our press like Keith Jackson and so on started to report the truth instead of agenda driven PR interspersed triumphalistic nonsense then there really wouldn’t be any story for Phil to uncover. But time and time again he breaks the real story about this omnishambles.
I’d urge you to take a deep breath, let the anger abate and just think about whats more damaging. The lapdogs? Or Phil’s coverage? I’m 100% its the damage from the laptop loyal thats causing the divisions amongst Rangers fans for example.
Its not easy to swallow a bitter truth I guess.
Corrupt official says:
September 4, 2014 at 4:51 pm
If you google the address of Rangers retail, Sports Direct appears to operate from the same industrial unit.
======================================
It always has as all the paperwork and admin for Rangers Retail is done there. Rangers fans were effectively conned when Rangers Retail was set-up as they were told Rangers had the majority shareholding with IIRC 52 shares to SportDirect’s 48.
What wasn’t revealed was that there were two different classes of shares wrt voting rights.
In any vote on a financial matter the SportsDirect ones count as double so the actual voting shares are SportsDirect 96 – Rangers 52.
I mean even buying a loo roll could be termed a financial decision so SportsDirect well and truly have Rangers by the short and curlies over Rangers Retail in so many different ways,
ecobhoy says:
September 4, 2014 at 5:28 pm
Indeed the recent revelations regarding Mike Ashley and Charles Green brought this story to mind
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/australasia/super-predator-that-devoured-great-white-shark-investigated-by-researchers-9527819.html
Allyjambo says:
September 4, 2014 at 4:02 pm
ecobhoy says:
September 4, 2014 at 3:32 pm
I wonder how it sits with the AIM authorities that RIFC forgot to mention in the IPO prospectus that the Ibrox naming rights had already been sold? If they can get away with ‘omissions’ (maybe they can’t/won’t) then they can get away with most things.
‘As part of its media strategy, RFCL acquired the registered trade marks “Broxi Bear”, “Rangers”, “Rangers News”, “Rangers Travel”, “The Gers” and the current and previous Club emblems from RFC 2012 plc pursuant to the APA’
Is it possible that ‘acquired’ doesn’t actually mean ‘owned’, but could maybe be construed to mean ‘has the use of’ or ‘the right to use’? They don’t actually state that TRFC ‘own’ the trade marks etc.
======================================================
The official ‘Intellectual Property Office’ site states that the TMs are all owned by TRFCL and that Rangers Media has an exclusive licence to use them.
That raises the issue for me as to what Rangers Retail is paying for that exclusive licence. On past form I would hazard a guess at 1p per annum 😯
The only ‘fact’ we have is what would happen if SportsDirect exercised its option to buy-out Rangers from Rangers Retail with the Rangers AIM Prospectus stating in that eventuality SportsDirect:
Another thing I just noticed is that the start date for the Rangers Retail licenses is 31 July 2012 which is the date that Sevco Scotland changed its name to TRFCL.
And as I pointed out in my earlier post BS and CG didn’t become directors of Rangers Retail Ltd until 28 August 2012. It’s amazing what you can find when you follow rabbit and wormholes and where you end-up.
Just something that occurred to me re the Ahmad action.
Even if he wins it, I think there is a 60 day period before the money actually becomes ring fenced, i.e. if the club goes into administration before then, he would not be guaranteed to get any money he may subsequently be awarded.
I seem to recall that condition from similar actions by Martin Bain and HMRC (wee tax case) against the Oldco.
easyJambo says:
September 4, 2014 at 5:21 pm
‘..Confirmation of tomorrow’s Imran Ahmad case from the Court of Session Rolls.’
——–
That’s very helpful,eJ. I phoned this morning because the Rolls of Court didn’t show anything for tomorrow, and it took the clerk a minute or two before he could say that yes, it was on tomorrow. Apparently, the Courts are still ‘in vacation’ and the Rolls might not catch everything that’s going on.
I had wondered whether the Judge might have agreed an earlier start time, as Lord Docherty did during the UTTT appeal.
10.00 a.m is a much more civilised time to start!
easyJambo says:
September 4, 2014 at 6:20 pm
EJ that does ring a bell, but, I also remember how damaging in a PR sense, Bain’s successful action was.
John Clark says:
September 4, 2014 at 6:29 pm
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easyJambo says:
September 4, 2014 at 5:21 pm
‘..Confirmation of tomorrow’s Imran Ahmad case from the Court of Session Rolls.’
——–
That’s very helpful,eJ. I phoned this morning because the Rolls of Court didn’t show anything for tomorrow, and it took the clerk a minute or two before he could say that yes, it was on tomorrow. Apparently, the Courts are still ‘in vacation’ and the Rolls might not catch everything that’s going on.
I had wondered whether the Judge might have agreed an earlier start time, as Lord Docherty did during the UTTT appeal.
10.00 a.m is a much more civilised time to start!
=========================================================
Same Judge JC ? Its a continuation?
If so awkward questions may arise.
Pencils sharpened?
scapaflow says:
September 4, 2014 at 6:54 pm
easyJambo says:
September 4, 2014 at 6:20 pm
EJ that does ring a bell, but, I also remember how damaging in a PR sense, Bain’s successful action was.
=====================================
Absolutely sf !
It was the Bain case decision in August [?] 2011 which really grabbed my attention.
Prior to that date I just had an awareness of some tax issues around Rangers which seemed to be hampering Murray’s attempts at flogging off the club. But thanks to my reliance – at that time – on the MSM coverage, I was happily ignorant of the scale of the story.
But for me – and perhaps for many other Bampots – it was this Bain case decision which confirmed that Rangers were in really serious trouble – and the continued lack of MSM coverage piqued my interest.
I randomly found Phil’s site which gave me the background – and IIRC, it was from there that I found out about the RTC site – and then my own obsession with the Rangers saga commenced.
[Although my obsession was quickly redirected to the pathetic MSM coverage, whereas now it is focussed on the pathetic SFA.]
However, I don’t think Imran’s court case tomorrow will make any dent on the TRFC reputation whatsoever… 😕
StevieBC says:
September 4, 2014 at 7:39 pm
It wouldn’t have the same effect, it would be just another biggish stone rattling down the mountain, bringing the uncontrollable avalanche that bit nearer
rhapsodyinblue says:
September 4, 2014 at 2:31 pm
———————————————-
“That said I do not give credence to any information…”
Oh dear.Well that is a shame.
However,the thing is my information is high grade, well sourced and has been consistently vindicated by unfolding events.
ianagain says:
September 4, 2014 at 7:25 pm
‘…Pencils sharpened?’
———
Indeed.
Of course,the judge at the previous Imran hearing I attended in May was Lord Armstrong.
Tomorrow it appears to be Lord Stewart who, presumably, knew nothing about the case until this week when when he perhps e familiarised himself with Lord A’s judgment before he heard Ahmad’s new application.
I suppose that tomorrow,Counsel for RIFC plc/TRFC will try to convince the court that whatever the RIFC board said recently, there is now every reason to believe that they believe the club can continue as a ‘going concern’.
Last time, Lord Armstrong didn’t appear to me to be all that sure, but ( possibly, probably, rightly in light of what he was told) gave them the benefit of the doubt rather than risk possibly triggering off an insolvency!
Given that even the Board has very recently suggested that present circumstances, if there is no change, will lead to the club being unable to pay its creditors, it will be interesting to see what evidence of improvement-actual or realistically expected- will be adduced in order to give Lord Stewart enough grounds to dismiss Ahmad’s application.He will need to have something fairly substantial, I would say, if his judgment is indeed that the application should be dismissed:otherwise there would be a risk that his judgment could be seen to be excessively arbitrary.
But what do I know? (Maybe by tomorrow night, a little more!)
SSB tonight fans and pundits alike admitting administration more than likely to take place. Thread through out the broadcast from pundits was 25 point deduction if admin occurs. No idea how or where this 25 points originated from?? It was unchallenged all night, have I missed something. Again Dave King mentioned a few times and like last night no mention from pundits about Mr King and his 41 tax evasion conviction history in SA. Looks like fans who attend the stadium called Ibrox (for time being ) are waking up and not willing to fund the owners of the club. Their loyalty was a given from the start and the spivs knew this and that is why they filled their pockets. Why it took so long to change when all the information was in this blog and others is basically down to their WATP beliefs. £1 seems to be the going rate to make money, not the hundreds of pounds that the fans pay for ST.
valentinesclown says:
September 4, 2014 at 8:49 pm
25 points is penalty for second insolvency event. Still betting on 15pts for first insolvency event, with SFA/SPFL blaming UEFA rules
John Clark says:
September 4, 2014 at 8:29 pm
=================================
As I said yesterday, the old and new club have an excellent record of success in Scottish Courts, even when the evidence seems overwhelmingly against them to a layman like myself and many others. Given the recent public utterances of club directors it would appear to anyone they will struggle to convince a Judge they are not at risk. However, maybe all it will take is the Rangers lawyer to say ‘everything will be okay’ and the Judge to say ‘oh well, that’s fine then’.
Could Ashley sell his £1 naming rites to someone else for a large profit and this is the reason he has not taken up the option of renaming it himself ❓
Guys on KDS saying Rangers Retail staff were told today by an Employment Manager of SD that they are now employed by Sports Direct.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/29070999
I found this article about Dundee Utd quite heartwarming, how Scottish football should be, in fact.
Cluster One says:
September 4, 2014 at 9:27 pm
The naming right is his asset, he can do what he likes with it.
He could rename it the Big Pile of Sh!t, if he doesn’t get his way, that’s what happens when you sell something
Though perhaps those in charge at Ibrox are more concerned with Last Rites, than Naming Rites at the moment 😆
Cluster One says:
September 4, 2014 at 9:27 pm
0 0 Rate This
Could Ashley sell his £1 naming rites to someone else for a large profit and this is the reason he has not taken up the option of renaming it himself ❓
=====
does anyone seriously believe that the naming rights of poundland are worth any significant amount of money
green spent 400K trying to rip up that contact?
massive squirrel
Intellectual Property anyone?
So the clock ticks towards Friday 12th where the shares will be sold or money handed back.
Will handing back the money cost RIFC more cash?
However before that we have Imran back in court to lock away a large slice of whatever is left in the kitty.
The stadium can’t be renamed because Ashley has first dibs on it and will not invoke that right until Zadoc the priest is blaring out to maximize the publicity for his company however it can’t be renamed in the meantime because of his option and to do this they would probably have to pay Ashley to delay his option and the money ain’t there. Just to think a few months ago the fans were talking about £15M for the naming rights. Meanwhile the maintenance list continues to rise.
Murray Park (still not renamed) can’t be sold because of planning restrictions (so we’ve always been told) and, at current burn rate, would only last a couple of months.
Still there is the underlying doubt on the ownership of both these properties.
Meanwhile bonuses are due to all the major players.
At least one signing on fee is reportedly still unpaid.
Two loans totalling £1.5M remain unpaid.
Rumoured to be a another £600k in bills outstanding.
Only one question remains.
Where do I sign up to buy shares in this enterprise?
If you made a film out of this it would be the disaster movie to end all disaster movies.
ecobhoy says:
September 4, 2014 at 5:21 pm
7 0 Rate This
OK – did a quick shuftie of Rangers trade marks. There are various graphic crests and also separate ones stating: Glasgow Rangers Football Club; Glasgow Rangers FC; Rangers News; Ibrox; Follow Follow; Rangers; Gers; The Gers; Broxi Bear; and a couple of Broxi Bear images.
——————-
Eco – thanks for researching that so thoroughly – I’d forgotten too – much appreciated. I guess we’ll have to give Charles the benefit of the doubt – for now at least 🙂
IF administration happens will the season ticket money be given straight back to the season ticket holders or will it be split between all creditors??
Mark Dingwall is not a happy chappie either.
Grandmaster_Suck
Join Date: 06-03-2005
Location: The Disco Inferno
Posts: 26,556
Daily Record Friday back page – more bad news
More Ashley news.
Won’t stick my source in it but wait for the graphic which is usually up sometime between now and midnight.
Where are the SFA `Guardians of the Game`?
#chaos
#useless
#shame
mtp
Sitting round the boardroom table, fingers in ears, eyes tight shut, humming Zadoc the Priest
Brenda says:
September 4, 2014 at 9:54 pm
IF administration happens will the season ticket money be given straight back to the season ticket holders or will it be split between all creditors??
===============================================
I’m sure it will go straight into the gemeral pot because as far as I understand it the ticket ring-fencing is purely to protect the directors by releasing the ST money on a drip-feed after each game is played.
It’s not a legal requirement but just something Deloittes has suggested and probably someone as careful as Wallace will adhere to. I also don’t think Deloittes can demand it but if their suggestion isn’t followed it might lead to a note in the accounts.
PhilMacGiollaBhain says:
September 4, 2014 at 7:51 pm
rhapsodyinblue says:
September 4, 2014 at 2:31 pm
———————————————-
“That said I do not give credence to any information…”
Oh dear.Well that is a shame.
However,the thing is my information is high grade, well sourced and has been consistently vindicated by unfolding events.
==============================================
And that’s what hurts so much and stokes the hatred. However it’s our duty for the general good of Scottish Football to continue lighting the way so that at least the decent Bears have an alternative source of information to the Blue PR Machine which only plays the old discredited tunes.
I personally feel sorry for Messrs Wallace and Nash. They are , as far as I understand, decent businessmen trying to do a job under circumstances which most of us would agree are insufferable.
For them, it must be like playing a chess game when you are in check, down to a coupe of castles and a few stranded pawns to protect your king. Every move made to get out of check is countered immediately and you have to rethink. Consider the 120 day report. This report confirmed a share issue/offer would be made. What then ? The Stockbridge share situation was suddenly announced. Result? The whole business plan is in chaos.
Follow on from that, we have had the most recent move by the gallant CEO. The £3.9m share issue. Result, move by opposition, Imran, after months of waiting, decides to pursue his personal claim, and to reinforce the check situation, Mr Easdale, gives the MSM his version as backup.
Tomorrow I feel that the beleaguered board of TRFC are in a catch 22 situation, financially and perhaps legally.
It has been discussed at length on this site who stands to gain with regard to the total fleecing of TRFC supporters, I think tomorrow will be another move towards checkmate.
Then, the hyenas will return.
easyJambo says:
September 4, 2014 at 10:00 pm
Mark (Grandmaster Suck) Dingwall has now closed the thread he opened with the comment
“Let’s wait for the back page graphic.”
WRT the bad news expected on back page of tomorrow’s DR.
Darkside seems to thing SportsDirect has taken over the Rangers Megastore with other stores to follow. Don’t know what, if any effect, that will have on the financial front.
Maybe the 120 SportsDirect ad panels allegedly delivered to Ibrox recently is for the megastore and not the stadium.
justshatered says:
September 4, 2014 at 9:41 pm
‘…If you made a film out of this it would be the disaster movie to end all disaster movies.’
——–
You’d have to buy the movie rights from CW first, I think!Or did Charlie heist them as well?
It had to happem, a statement!!
Following a meeting of the Rangers Supporters Trust (RST) board we have the following statement to release.
As shareholders in Rangers International Football Club (RIFC) we have decided unanimously to partake in the upcoming open offer. This will be carried out using funds from our BuyRangers fan ownership scheme.
Whilst we still have deep concerns about the current situation at the club, as a board we believe that given fan ownership is the raison dÂ’etre of the organisation it is in our members interest to participate in the open offer to maintain our current shareholding.
In order for the RST to continue its primary objective we urge as many fellow Rangers fans to join and contribute to our BuyRangers scheme from as little as £11.25 per month at http://www.therst.co.uk/buyrangers.
ecobhoy says: September 4, 2014 at 10:46 pm
WRT the bad news expected on back page of tomorrow’s DR.
Darkside seems to thing SportsDirect has taken over the Rangers Megastore with other stores to follow. Don’t know what, if any effect, that will have on the financial front.
======================
If Ashley has a watertight contract that will survive administration,then I think that it is a pre-emptive action to look after his own interests.
By separating RR from the club, he then has full control of the retail business and the ongoing rights to use the brand if/when the club emerges from administration.
The threat he would carry is to vote against a CVA if the administrators sought to break the contract.
If he left half of RR with the club, then he risked having the assets of RR purloined to pay off other creditors.
ecobhoy says:
September 4, 2014 at 10:26 pm
————————————————
Quite
Staff transfer confirmed in the Scotsman
http://i.imgur.com/XzpqDfZ.jpg
SHOP SWOP
http://i.imgur.com/XzpqDfZ.jpg
ecobhoy says:
September 4, 2014 at 10:46 pm
1 0 Rate This
WRT the bad news expected on back page of tomorrow’s DR.
Darkside seems to thing SportsDirect has taken over the Rangers Megastore with other stores to follow. Don’t know what, if any effect, that will have on the financial front.
Maybe the 120 SportsDirect ad panels allegedly delivered to Ibrox recently is for the megastore and not the stadium.
——————————–
Nah that’s no right! That character called Phil reported that last Saturday and we cannot give it any credence.
In all honesty, if Rangers suffer an insolvency event, (which is by no means certain), I can’t see rangers getting promoted out of the Championship after a 15 point penalty, let alone 25. At the very least, Administration would mean another season out of the premiership, what would that do to the business plan?
It’s enough to make one almost, almost feel sorry for them.
paulsatim says:
September 4, 2014 at 10:52 pm
4
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It had to happem, a statement!!
Following a meeting of the Rangers Supporters Trust (RST) board we have the following statement to release.
As shareholders in Rangers International Football Club (RIFC) we have decided unanimously to partake in the upcoming open offer. This will be carried out using funds from our BuyRangers fan ownership scheme.
Whilst we still have deep concerns about the current situation at the club, as a board we believe that given fan ownership is the raison dÂ’etre of the organisation it is in our members interest to participate in the open offer to maintain our current shareholding.
In order for the RST to continue its primary objective we urge as many fellow Rangers fans to join and contribute to our BuyRangers scheme from as little as £11.25 per month at http://www.therst.co.uk/buyrangers.
============================================================
How can a “board” recommend this? are they seriously saying dive in and dilute your own shareholding?
I wonder what happens to the money being held in Rangers Retail which allegedly was owed to TRFCL. Does that now go to SportsDirect. How many million was it – 2 or 3?
paulsatim says:
September 4, 2014 at 10:52 pm
‘..As shareholders in Rangers International Football Club (RIFC) we have decided unanimously to partake in the upcoming open offer.’
—–
Lord Stewart will no doubt be told tomorrow of the huge amounts this will raise!
Still think admin is a way off. However the points deduction issue got me thinking.
15 or 25 could make a difference to the possibility of a mid table championship side (say Hibs 🙂 ) getting a sniff at the play offs and thus the premiership.
We all get caught up in how T’Rangers would react but it would be interesting to see if a another club (say Mr Hutton’s) would mount a challenge if it were only a 15 point deduction and what arguments would be put forward to justify either position.
Scapaflow says
September 4 2014 @11.17pm.
I don’t know about feeling sorry, but I believe every positive move by the business side of the “clumpany” is anticipated and countered by those who have their own specific objectives.
Remember, regardless of 15 point deduction, they still only have to finish 4th to participate in play-offs. New rule for this season, wonder if the plan works(promotion) if it will return to the previous play-off format?
paulsatim says:
September 4, 2014 at 11:33 pm
I know, but, it’s not just the points deduction, its the off field turmoil, the managerial abilities of Mr McCoist, the boost it would give to otherwise mid-table performers, who would sniff a chance at being contenders. All the ingredients for a “perfect storm”
EDIT
You can hear the cries of “Have we no been punished enough”, already
ecobhoy says:
September 4, 2014 at 10:11 pm
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Brenda says:
September 4, 2014 at 9:54 pm
IF administration happens will the season ticket money be given straight back to the season ticket holders or will it be split between all creditors??
===============================================
I’m sure it will go straight into the gemeral pot because as far as I understand it the ticket ring-fencing is purely to protect the directors by releasing the ST money on a drip-feed after each game is played.
It’s not a legal requirement but just something Deloittes has suggested and probably someone as careful as Wallace will adhere to. I also don’t think Deloittes can demand it but if their suggestion isn’t followed it might lead to a note in the accounts.
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Here’s my take.
From wikipedia entry on wrongful trading:
[stextbox id=”grey”]
“A limited company becomes insolvent when it can no longer pay its bills when due, or its liabilities; including contingent liabilities such as redundancy payments, outweigh the company’s assets.” [/stextbox]
Now I think the second definition (liabilities including contingent liabilities outweigh assets) might apply to TRFC. In which event:
it goes on…
[stextbox id=”grey”]
This is a critical point in the lifespan of a company as it denotes when the directors responsibilities change from the shareholders to the creditors [/stextbox]
which means that:
[stextbox id=”grey”]
Any director who knows that the company is insolvent and makes the decision to continue to trade, and in doing so increases the debts of the company can be made liable for the company debts
[/stextbox]
Spending ST monies before the match is played would avoidably increase the companies debts and go against the interests of creditors, since the cash asset would be consumed while the liability to deliver the games would persist.
Ergo, doing so could make mssrs Walllace and Nash personably liable for the sums disbursed.
My take is this ringfencing is neither for the benefit of, nor does it afford any protection to the fans, except isnofar as the extent to whcih it improves the position for creditors as a whole.
I think there could be some very upset bears looking for refunds quite soon that may not be forthcoming.
Could 2014 be the season of 2 tickets???
Be interseting to see what the SFA/SPFL would do in the event that fans are left with worthless briefs.
The correct action would – I think – be to revoke the license of the club or any successor I should imagine. (As if!)
Jum Spence of BBC Scotland has confirmed that Alloa Athletic are about to announce that they’re to receive a six-figure sum . . .
For the renaming of Recreation Park. 😆
Clackmannanshire needs a strong Alloa.
paulsatim says:
September 4, 2014 at 11:33 pm
Remember, regardless of 15 point deduction, they still only have to finish 4th to participate in play-offs. New rule for this season, wonder if the plan works(promotion) if it will return to the previous play-off format?
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It’s not new for this season – the same system applied last season.
I reckon Nash moved about 300k -500k liabilities off the balance sheet with the loanees. Plus any finance director I ever worked with always had something up his sleeve.
Id be surprised if he was any different.
paulsatim says:
September 4, 2014 at 11:33 pm
Remember, regardless of 15 point deduction, they still only have to finish 4th to participate in play-offs. New rule for this season, wonder if the plan works(promotion) if it will return to the previous play-off format?
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No the rule was the same last year, although I suspect it was introduced specifically to help Rangers, should the need arise.
Falkirk beat Queen of the South
Hamilton beat Falkirk
Hamilton beat Hibs
EDIT: Beat me to it BigGav
ecobhoy says:
September 4, 2014 at 11:23 pm
Don’t know, but, I wonder how Ashley will react to the boringly predictable SportsDirect boycott, that the Record is reporting?
Thanks Big Gav and KC!
There was a caller on Clyde Superscoreboard obviously annoyed that he perceived Celtic were getting assistance from the SFA on the Guidette loan signing.
Jim Delahunt to be fair pointed out that any club would have been able to go the same route BUT did not address the misunderstanding on which the call was based i.e the stabbed in the back unfairly treated victim myth from which it sprung. Again to be fair it is not the sort of thing you would be able to do on the spot on the show.
However this myth unless challenged forms the Rangers world view as innocent victims unfairly treated by SFA/HMRC/SPL and it makes it more difficult to move on when the extent of damage done is minimised, damage that the rest of football resents more because of its denial. Anyhow I wrote to Superscoreboard and hopefully they will set the record straight.
Jim
You had a caller on Superscoreboard Thursday evening asking why SFA imposed a transfer embargo on Rangers that was removed because the rules did not allow such a penalty.
The caller’s point was that the SFA were acting against and not supporting Rangers.
The reason for the embargo was that the SFA did not want to apply the sanction that was open to them which was to terminate or suspend Rangers membership of the SFA because of behaviour that was in the Judicial Panel’s own words only less serious than “match fixing.”
Far from harming Rangers the SFA pulled short of what they would have been justified in doing.
There is a stabbed in the back/victim myth taking place here and when Clyde fail to set the record straight they encourage it.
I appreciate this info was not available at the time of the call but you now have an opportunity to inform listeners why a transfer embargo was given and how lucky Rangers were not to have had their membership withdrawn.
It is all in The Judicial Panel Disciplinary Tribunal Hearing
DETERMINATION: DISCIPLINARY TRIBUNAL
THE RANGERS FOOTBALL CLUB plc and MR CRAIG WHYTE (March/April 2012)
NOTE OF REASONS
from which the following is taken.
On any view the matters involved in this case are as serious offences against the ordinary standards of corporate governance as one could imagine. The Tribunal attempted in its exercise of fixing these matters on the scale of offences to identify a more serious offence than those on the complaints, and concluded that only match fixing in its various forms might be a more serious breach. It had no hesitation in concluding that the breaches struck at the heart of good corporate governance and social and financial probity and responsibility. They brought the game into serious disrepute. As such, they required to be regarded as at the top of the scale of seriousness.
Having regard to its view on the undoubted gravity of the breaches, the Tribunal considered whether it should terminate Rangers FC membership of the Scottish FA and concluded that punishment was too severe. It considered whether suspension of membership was a less serious but an appropriately severe punishment, but concluded that too was too severe. Having regard to the circumstances which led to the breaches by Rangers FC and the role of Mr Craig Whyte in their plight as their Chairman and director, it was concluded that a temporary prohibition on registering new players was appropriate. Twelve months was considered an appropriate period.
Auldheid says:
September 5, 2014 at 12:31 am
14 0 Rate This
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Well done Auldheid. Second evening on the trot that this has come up from callers (same ones?) of the Charles Green mindset.
As you say, was surprising that JD, or anyone else, didn’t refer back as you have now done. So much has happened, though, I doubt they even remember. The ultimate outcome certainly helped disguise the ‘second only to match-fixing’ line.
General impression from callers, too, was that admin will fix all current ills, as if by magic, including at board level 😯
Danish Pastry says:
September 5, 2014 at 5:52 am
Well done Auldheid. Second evening on the trot that this has come up from callers (same ones?) of the Charles Green mindset.
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The problem is in Scottish football a lie repeated often enough can easily become accepted as the truth, then used as a stick to beat others with.
Did the Ibrox club not benefit from a post deadline signing a year or two ago? Something to do with a faulty fax machine at Hampden? Could have been nonsense but transparency would clarify that.
upthehoops says:
September 5, 2014 at 7:14 am
1 0 Rate This
The problem is in Scottish football a lie repeated often enough can easily become accepted as the truth, then used as a stick to beat others with.
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A proper governing body would have said, “Okay, judge ruled this helpful compromise of ours illegal, so we stick to the letter of the law.”
I bet there are some at Hampden wishing they’d have booted Sevco and Green out when they had the chance.
I thought the opportunity to create a new team in blue was gone, but the remarkable turn of events has presented yet another opportunity for the fans to get it right.
If the ‘real Rangers men’ are smart they’ll create a Rangers of Glasgow or some such entity, pronto. I can’t see any other alternative than, well, an alternative — and the time may be right.
Danish Pastry says:
September 5, 2014 at 5:52 am
7 0 Rate This
Auldheid says:
September 5, 2014 at 12:31 am
14 0 Rate This
——
Well done Auldheid. Second evening on the trot that this has come up from callers (same ones?) of the Charles Green mindset.
As you say, was surprising that JD, or anyone else, didn’t refer back as you have now done. So much has happened, though, I doubt they even remember. The ultimate outcome certainly helped disguise the ‘second only to match-fixing’ line.
General impression from callers, too, was that admin will fix all current ills, as if by magic, including at board level 😯
==================================
And there’s a couple of challenges for the thinking bears right there.
Green played them and their fans in the press like a fiddle, so much so many are still confused about what really happened and who was really to blame. The Rangers fans are starting to open their eyes to the incredible damage Green did to their club – when will they realise the accusations, fighting talk and so on was all part of the cleverly crafted scheme? Will the fans in the media ever help them to join the dots?
Secondly, given a confused and flexible definition of administration and then liquidation to cling to the first time around most of these same fans will once again feel victimised and “punished” if a second Administration results in any of the sort of culling Duff and Phelps avoided first time around or indeed if the authorities apply rules without fear or favour (as if).
And so the smoking battlefield still prevent bears from clearly seeing the truth and having realistic expectations of what an Admin event will mean for the clumpany.
Morning all.
How about this from Twitter:
@scotzine: UKIP Scotland party chairman Arthur Thackeray has confirmed that they are looking into state aid allegations between @celticfc & @GlasgowCC
Seems a well balanced chap I would listen to: 🙄
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ukip-sends-scottish-chairman-arthur-thackeray-counselling-over-gays-catholics-communists-rant-1433249
torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958) says:
September 5, 2014 at 8:27 am
Have they any idea what they are taking on? UKIP v ecobhoy, I know who my money will be on 😀
Renaming Ibrox ‘the UKIP Arena’?
Cheap attempt from UKIP to harness voters with a particular world view?
Naw, surely not?