Questions, questions, questions

ByAndrew Smith

Questions, questions, questions

 

As SFM folk will know, Scottish Football authorities can be enigmatic at best, puzzling and corrupt at worst, and downright crazy and incompetent in either situation. On this blog over the years, we have asked questions constantly of the authorities and the clubs, but like anyone with a fan-centred interest at heart we get ignored. “Fans are not a homogenous entity”, they say, “there are more opinions than there are fans”. This artful premise gives the clubs an excuse to ignore fans’ input, and other than on platforms like this, fan opinion is seldom gathered or curated.
The following blog, put together by Andy Smith, the Chairman of the Scottish Football Supporters Association, asks a lot of simple questions that don’t get asked often. He also invites fans to raise their own questions and opinions.
Of course, there are headline atrocities committed by the people in charge of the game.
The Five-Way Agreement, the continuity myth, the refusal to punish the biggest incidence of systematic cheating ever experienced in the game, and the casual adoption of the post-truth model introduced so successfully by venal politicians on both sides of the Atlantic.

But what enabled those assaults on the integrity of the sport? In order to get away with the big con, there have to be wee cons. Ticket allocations, kick off times and dates for set-piece occasions which make it difficult if not impossible for fans outside of Glasgow to participate, refusal to hold match officials accountable in the way an underperforming player or a misbehaving fan would be, and countless other incidences where fans are inconvenienced, or even put at risk. 

The only way to combat that level of arrogance is to unite where we can, and although in a partisan sport that can be difficult to achieve, SFM is testimony that it can work. This blog is an invitation for us to begin to look forward, and not get distracted by the past. I  hope SFM-ers participate and make their views clear.

Big Pink

 

What did Alan Dougherty, Gordon Harvey and Eddie Hutch have in common?

They were teachers who gave their time, to thousands of kids, including me, and asked for nothing back. To a man they gave up, overnight, as part of a ‘work to rule’, in an ugly pay dispute in the early 80s.
They were never thanked properly by the game?
They were and are sair missed.
Why did football let that happen?
Why has nobody ever grasped this particular nettle since?



Should you be able to have a beer at Bayview watching East Fife play Clyde on Feb 5th?

Just like the fans at Murrayfield, just over the Firth can and will, at the sell-out game vs England on the very same day.



Should you be allowed to enjoy a beer at Celtic Park watching Celtic vs Rangers on Feb 2nd?

A smaller crowd than Murrayfield too, and very few away fans. But some history and maybe a different situation altogether.

 


Are our leagues too small, leading to constant pressure and short termism by clubs?

Club CFO’s say the pressures are brutal and when their team is in trouble everything else gets sacrificed to avoid the financial chaos of relegation.
Many CFO’s dread the thought of promotion too knowing full well the seesaw implications of our small leagues.



Should the bottom of SPFL be an automatic relegation to open up the pyramid?

Our unique, one league only, convoluted play-off formula was only ever a last minute switcheroo/deal by the SPFL2 clubs at the time to protect their places in the SPFL ‘old boys network’.
I’d suggest East Stirling, Brechin and Berwick would change their votes if asked again.

 

Your Invitation to Say What You Think


Scottish Football Alliance Fan Survey January 2022

The Scottish Football Supporters Association is an independent and growing fans organisation in Scotland with circa 80,000 members. We have members from all senior clubs in Scotland and throughout the pyramid.
Many of those members regularly visit the SFM site.

We have been asked by the new Scottish Football Alliance (http://scottishfootball.org/) to provide an independent insight into what fans think about various aspects of our game, in particular what fans think our game needs to move forward. It is time for change, and football seems incapable of change from within.

Scottish Football might not acknowledge it, but it really needs the input of supporters like you. The fact none of us have been asked our opinions in the past says a lot.

We need to help and tell those running our game and other stakeholders like the Scottish Government what football needs to do.

Scottish football certainly has to think longer term and get closer to its fans.
In any business overview we are the core stakeholders.
The way we are treated and ignored is quite commercially bizarre.

To that end we have commissioned a short two minute survey, but we’d also welcome and appreciate any more detailed insights into what Scottish Football needs to do or do better. Please email those insights (in addition to participating in the survey) to me, at andrew@scottishfsa.org

I know from experience that when you get a group of fans in a room to talk about football, after the local rivalries and stuff gets dealt with, usually with humour, we can all see what the game has done for us, the power of good it can be for our communities and the things that need to change.

I constantly find that most fans not only see the bigger picture but also collectively want to give something back.

When this survey ends we will aggregate and analyse the results and share them far and wide inside the game and to other interested stakeholders like The Scottish Government.

The results will also become the foundation of policies The Scottish Football Alliance will publish and circulate.

At each stage moving forward we will work closely with The Scottish Football Alliance providing then with further fan insight.

And we will keep you and all other fans involved.

Survey Notes
You can participate in the survey by follwing this link:
https://s-f-s-a.onlinesurveys.ac.uk/scottish-football-alliance-survey

The questions are simple Yes/No and there are no right or wrong answers, just opinions and insight into what fans think.

About the author

Andrew Smith subscriber

836 Comments so far

John ClarkPosted on5:11 pm - Mar 22, 2022


Dom16 22nd March 2022 At 14:08
‘..Anyone seen anything about this?’
%%%%%%%%
Not sure there’s anything new , Dom16, but I enjoyed having a read at this account [that I hadn’t seen before] as much as I enjoyed those days of the hearing that I managed to listen to.
https://www.pressreader.com/uk/scottish-daily-mail/20211007/282007560563454

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gunnerbPosted on6:21 pm - Mar 22, 2022


Paddy Malarkey 22nd March 2022 At 13:58:

You can almost taste the staunchness -TRFC statement .

https://www.rangers.co.uk/Article/club-statement-220322/2h9XppImmXcboZdN8fF4kX

Paddy Malarkey 22nd March 2022 At 14:05

Apparently in response to this –
https://club1872.co.uk/news/club-1872-concerns-over-rangers-executive-management/
————————————————————-
PM ,I thought the staunchy statement was aimed at the coterie known as union bears rather than club1872 . are they one and the same ?

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nawlitePosted on6:35 pm - Mar 22, 2022


Gunnerb, Judean People’s Front versus People’s Front of Judea. Aaah, it’s been a while since we’ve had the Monty Python discussions relating to ‘Rangers’! Brilliant if we can now have it regarding their supporters groups, too!!!!

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John ClarkPosted on7:08 pm - Mar 22, 2022


Paddy Malarkey 22nd March 2022 At 13:58:

‘..You can almost taste the staunchness -TRFC statement .’
%%%%%%%%%
‘Staunchness’? You’re too kind, PM.
Bone-headed , unintelligent , nasty belligerence from some thicko thug is perhaps a better description!
Was there ever a board of directors so quick to issue veiled threats
” Rest assured, we will address the disruptors and their propaganda war at the end of this season”
( Rangers statement at
https://www.rangers.co.uk/Article/club-statement-220322/2h9XppImmXcboZdN8fF4kX ]
It reads to my eye like something a mad thug like Putin would write .
The Club 1872 statement by contrast is very nearly a model of reasoned peaceful and almost conciliatory protest.
Let’s hope that TRFC dies at the hands of it own Board ,just as RFC of 19872 did in 2012

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John ClarkPosted on10:52 pm - Mar 22, 2022


Just in the passing, let me mention that I’ve had a pleasant time over the last half-hour so , reading over Lord Tyre’s judgment of 6 October 2021 in the BDO v D&P case.

Now, I appreciate that reading judgments of the Court is not everybody’s bag.

Nevertheless , I think that besides giving a link to the judgment, it might be helpful if I give a short extract which states the facts on which I base my oft-repeated assertions that TRFC is not and cannot possibly be the Rangers of 1872.
The extract is the whole of paragraphs 30 and 31, as Lord Tyre wrote them.
It’s a bit of a nuisance that I can’t on this blog highlight in bold, or in italics , or by underlining, the particularly interesting facts, but can only do that by using capital letters which I don’t like using except sparingly [ note to BP: we used to be have those kinds of editorial/presentation facilities. Could they possibly be restored?]

Here are the paragraphs.
“[30] On 29 May the respondents issued their formal proposal for a CVA to the company’s
creditors. The proposal was that Sevco would make £8,250,000 available for creditors, as a
loan to the Company, and pay a non-refundable exclusivity fee of £250,000. After the costs of
the administration, there would be a fund of around £5 million for the creditors, in addition
to other assets as outlined in the proposal. A meeting of creditors was fixed for 14 June. On
8 June, HMRC gave notice to the respondents that they would vote against a CVA. As HMRC were by far the Company’s largest creditor, this meant that the CVA proposal could not succeed.
The business and assets of the company were, accordingly, sold to Sevco for £5,500,000 in terms
of the 12 May agreement. Sevco Scotland Limited subsequently changed its name to The
Rangers Football Club Limited.
[31] After the sale of the business and assets, a number of players declined to transfer to
Sevco and instead registered with other clubs, in England and elsewhere. Sevco sought to
argue that it retained the players’ registrations and was entitled to transfer fees. Certain
clubs made payments to Sevco to avoid litigation, including Southampton (for Steven Davis)
and Coventry (for John Fleck). No transfer fee for any of the players was payable to the
company. ON 4 July 2012, THE SPL MEMBER CLUBS VOTED TO REFUSE TO ALLOW RANGERS’ SPL SHARE TO BE TRANSFERRED TO SEVCO. The club was accepted instead into the third division of the
Scottish Football League for the season 2012-13”
The learned Judge was savvy enough, perhaps disappointingly so, not to mention that, of course, the non-transfer of the RFC of 1872 share in the SPL meant that RFC of 1872 had automatically lost its membership of the SFA;
and that the new Sevco/TRFC had to apply AS A BRAND NEW FOOTBALL CLUB only just become a member of the SPL , for membership of the SFA.
A link to the full judgment is
https://scotcourts.gov.uk/docs/default-source/cos-general-docs/pdf-docs-for-opinions/2021csoh994db16e7faaf44562b70dd717109201c0.pdf?sfvrsn=b8f1694d_1&msclkid=1e42019aaa2611ecba2c90f6eb39f554

[2021] CSOH 99 seems to be its court of session outer house number.

[I have not thus far found it on BAILLII, and I did not find on the ‘Court of Session judgments’ page either. But that’s maybe just me]

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Big PinkPosted on11:21 pm - Mar 22, 2022


Been out of commission lately, largely due to a broken leg, and some SFM housekeeping has been put on the back burner, including making the site ad-free, catching up on some podcast action, and updating the news on the recent fundraiser.

After four weeks laid up, I am now almost pain-free and ready to get mobile again. I will look at John Clark’s request for some formatting improvements, and reconvene an SFM get-together in Glasgow sometime in April.

The dog, who is responsible for my injuries due to the inhospitable areas where she chooses to do her business (and where owners work poo-bags fear to tread), is in the , er, doghouse. She’s won’t be out of there until my recovery is complete.

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John ClarkPosted on11:29 pm - Mar 22, 2022


My post at 22.52 this evening refers
The BAILLII link to Lord Tyre’s BDO vD&P judgment is

https://www.bailii.org/scot/cases/ScotCS/2021/2021_CSOH_99.html

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John ClarkPosted on12:16 am - Mar 23, 2022


Big Pink 22nd March 2022 At 23:21
‘..Been out of commission lately, largely due to a broken leg,.’
%%%%%%%
Dear Lord, BP!
I’m very sorry to hear that, and hope that you are on the mend.
And that you accept that my post was not any kind of criticism of the blog operators, more an indication that I am just a baby when it comes to the technicalities of how blogs work.
I wish you a very speedy recovery to full fitness.
And how I wish that, after dislocating my shoulder in a fall last time I visited Australia, I had followed the exercise prog of the physio at the Edinburgh Royal infirmary: my left arm is noticeably thinner than my right!
But then, of course, I’m an auld man!

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dom16Posted on10:51 am - Mar 23, 2022


Hope you recover soon BP.

I’m doing some dog walking for a friend who broke her wrist walking her dog.

Occupational hazard for dog owners it would seem.

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paddy malarkeyPosted on11:33 am - Mar 23, 2022


https://twitter.com/Record_Sport/status/1506588753355317248

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John ClarkPosted on2:42 pm - Mar 23, 2022


I was surprised yesterday to see that the ‘Scotsman’s letters page carried a letter which contained this:
” Another weekend, another mysterious Rangers penalty in a domestic match whenever they are behind and look like they’ve zero chance of equalising-and right after half-time too! By Jove, it’s almost as if someone’s had a wee word with the match officials…..”
Very brave, the letters editor!
For the avoidance of doubt, I was not the letter writer. [ I hope he doesn’t mind me quoting him without naming him ]

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John ClarkPosted on8:09 pm - Mar 23, 2022


LORD BRAID – C Stark, Clerk
Friday 25th March

Procedural Hearing
between 9.00am and 9.30am

CA71/20 Duff & Phelps Ltd v The Lord Advocate
A & W M Urquhart SGLD

I imagine this is D&P [the firm] trying to sue for compensation for the damage allegedly done world-wide to the good name of the firm by the wrongful arrest and detention of Whitehouse and Clark..
As said before, I think it’s likely that the proven incompetence of the pair in their handling of the Administration was likely to be far more damaging than any proven-to-be- wrongful arrest/detention.

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Big PinkPosted on9:15 pm - Mar 23, 2022


Dom16
Yeah, and there’s no shame in a mutt. As I was lying there in agony, she was stalking around impatiently waiting to continue her walk😊

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paddy malarkeyPosted on10:13 pm - Mar 23, 2022


Big Pink 23rd March 2022 At 21:15
My mate broke his ankle in November while walking his dog . Unfortunately he was in the wilds and he was lying in the rain for 4 hours before they could get an ambulance to him . He then spent the night in a hospital corridor before they could find him a bed , and his op was postponed twice due to staff covid infections . And he still has the dog !

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John ClarkPosted on1:47 pm - Mar 24, 2022


So the CEO of P&O can sit cynically and calmly before a Parliamentary Committee and say that he chose deliberately to break the Law. And it seems that nothing can be done in terms of prosecuting him personally or
the Company!
So it’s not just football club shysters who can get away with untruths in matters of business due to the incompetence of Regulatory authorities.
One wonders why there is any legislation whatsoever in the field of business failures, insolvency, administration and liquidation when there is little serious intent on the part of authorities to nail crooked, lying , contemptuous ‘businessmen’

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ParadisebhoyPosted on2:38 pm - Mar 24, 2022


There may be trouble ahead.
https://videocelts.com/2022/03/blogs/latest-news/rangers-retail-comes-back-from-the-dead-as-sports-direct-speculation-grows/

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ParadisebhoyPosted on2:52 pm - Mar 24, 2022


Hi BP – I hear The Moonrocks are playing Shotts on Saturday night . What can I say ? – “Break a Leg “

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John ClarkPosted on5:43 pm - Mar 24, 2022


Paradisebhoy 24th March 2022 At 14:38
‘..There may be trouble ahead.’
%%%%%%%%%
The most recent Court action I’ve seen , Paradisebhoy, was the hearing on 3 December 2021, judgment deemed handed down on 13 December2021 ( [2021] EWHC 3364 (Comm)). The judge ,Peter MacDonald Eggers QC (acting as Deputy Judge of the High Court (England)) concluded as follows:

“For the reasons explained above, I allow SDIR’s application for an order under paragraph 18 of CPR PD51U for the disclosure of the Castore Agreement, as well as the Castore Quarterly Statements (to include documents containing the accompanying information within the meaning discussed above) for the 2020-2021 season, but not the Quarterly Statement for the first quarter of the 2021-2022 season.
In my judgment, an order for specific disclosure within the meaning of the second sentence of paragraph 18.1 of CPR PD51U is justified given that the documents sought are specifically identified or fall within a narrow compass and relate to Issues for Disclosure, even if they do not fall within the date range within the Court’s order for Extended Disclosure dated 16th February 2021. Insofar as it is relevant, I would alternatively have been prepared to make an order varying the Court’s order for Extended Disclosure to embrace these documents.”
If the videocelts speculation has legs, the assumption has to be that TRFC decided not to appeal, has , complied with the court order and provide are the Castore info, and are trying to negotiate a damages figure with Ashley.
I doubt if TRFC/RIFC plc have the wherewithal to pay even a few million let alone anything like £10 million. Squeaky-bum time again, I imagine!

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John ClarkPosted on10:00 am - Mar 25, 2022


The D&P business this morning;
Lord Braid, after the morning greetings, acknowledged Mr Moynihan QC as appearing for the defender[the Lord Advocate] and asked whether the Dean of Faculty was expected? He wasn’t
Lord Braid said he understood that Parties were in agreement that mediation would possibly be best way forward with a date in August in mind?
There was then a very brief discussion around the need for an August date – further document disclosure and time for adjustments, but with an eye to the possibility of mediation in July, was required
Mr Moynihan QC said he had asked for a guaranteed date for delivery of documents, so the beginning of June is the earliest date for release, then a period for adjustment-earliest is July, but no date fixed as yet for mediation…and no certainty of availability of the mediator.
Judge agreed continuation to 20 August suggested by Clerk as being free
The proceedings took only about 10 minutes, and the line wasn’t very clear.

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Big PinkPosted on7:05 pm - Mar 25, 2022


Paddy Malarkey
Your mate has great fortitude. If I’d have been left lying for that long I’d need to have eaten the dog 😖

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Big PinkPosted on7:11 pm - Mar 25, 2022


Paradisebhoy
Sadly that is no longer the case due to a sudden family bereavement suffered by one of the guys. 🙁

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vernallenPosted on9:42 pm - Mar 25, 2022


I think the Rangers board, who have enough troubles at this time, should be wary of a South African businessman bearing gifts. The offer to pay the penalty should they opt out of the Sydney Cup has somewhat of an odor about it. What is required in return. It may carry more weight with the board if he offers to pay the potential multi million pound settlement with Sports Direct since he appears to be the person who caused the problem in the first place

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John ClarkPosted on11:41 pm - Mar 25, 2022


Vernallen 25th March 2022 At 21:42
‘..should be wary of a South African businessman bearing gifts. ‘
%%%%%%%
As Ally would say: “Absolutely!”
The man who would be King has grievances as deep as any that Putin has.
SDM’s actions seem to be at the root of those grievances: he put one over King, no mistake.

In a fight between those two, do I take sides?
Naw.
Not any more than I would have taken sides between Mussolini or Hitler.
Each as bad as the other, although to the SMSM , SDM seems to smell of roses [ I’m told that eating succulent lamb too often affects one’s sense of smell] while , despite Jim White, the King boy still reeks a little of the stench of criminal conviction.

But who am I to judge?
judgment is for the people who paid their money to fund a cheating sports club that died because of its cheating, but who continue to fund a club that lies about its history but which also treats them like dirt.
Honest to God.
What ARE they like?

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John ClarkPosted on12:26 pm - Mar 26, 2022


So, ex-MP Brian Wilson, referring to the Ferguson ferries debacle, has the gall to write in today’s ‘ The Scotsman’,
” This scandal cries out for a public inquiry to get at still -concealed evidence” and calls for government action to ” charter the vessels required to relieve the hardship this cocktail of political chicanery, utter incompetence and disregard for consequences has created”
As an islander, Wilson may be justified in getting his Harris tweeds in a twist.
I would have thought that, as a Celtic plc non-exec director, he had a duty to shout out loud on behalf of the shareholders for an independent review of the award in dubious circumstances of a UEFA competitions licence to CW’s RFC of 1872 .
When guys like Wilson bump their very selective gums a feeling of nausea comes over me.

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John ClarkPosted on10:34 pm - Mar 26, 2022


On a lighter note, let me give credit to Aidan Smith of ‘the Scotsman’ for his reportage [today] of his interview with the admirable Leanne Crichton, for whom I have both the highest appreciation of her undoubted talents as a football pundit and tremendous respect for her down-to-earth forthrightness in her observations.
Speaking about ex-player pundits who are now old men who played in a different era e.g. Sounness and Roy Keane ,Leanne remarks that they (and others) are ” speaking from a place of opinion which no longer exists”.[a very neat turn of phrase]

Leeanne goes on to say that some other ‘pundits’ “are just not educated enough so they ‘ll go flippantly off track to deflect from the fact they don’t know how to dissect or understand”

Smith writes very well and entertainingly on a variety of topics not necessarily related to football, and Leanne is head and shoulders above many of the male pundits in her ability to make and convey to the listener the kind of analysis that the later Sportscene people can show on the freeze-frame screen.
But, sadly, both Leanne [at least now] and Aidan [from old] are of the SMSM. Neither has made a journalistic/pundit challenge to the Big Lie.
They keep schtum… and by their silence endorse and propagate the untruth at the very heart of our game.
———
It is grotesquely ironic that the SFA arranged an international friendly the proceeds of which will go to help refugees from Ukraine fleeing from the lying Russian invaders, when it has destroyed its own credibility by having created the stupid, stupid, lie that TRFC is the very same RFC of 1872 which they themselves stripped of its membership in 2012!
The canting hypocrisy of those who are selective of which ‘truths’ they will adhere to is utterly repulsive.

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upthehoopsPosted on3:10 pm - Mar 27, 2022


Have the SFA or SPFL, or indeed any Scottish Football Club taken the time to congratulate ‘Rangers’ on their 150th anniversary? I’ve had a quick look, certainly not a detailed one, and can see no evidence of this. I think it would be normal to expect the authorities and at least some clubs to congratulate another club in this way. Why has it not happened if we are told incessantly by the media that it is beyond doubt they are the same club, and are regarded as such by the authorities and other clubs? I may of course have missed it.

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John ClarkPosted on4:43 pm - Mar 27, 2022


Upthehoops 27th March 2022 At 15:10
‘..Have the SFA or SPFL, or indeed any Scottish Football Club taken the time to congratulate ‘Rangers’ on their 150th anniversary?..’
%%%%%%%%%%%
Ha, ha! I haven’t seen anything here, UTH, but a quick google came up with a birthday greetings message from Hamburg’
This annoyed the hell out of me so I fired off this email:

“john clark
To:
info@hsv.de

Sun, 27 Mar at 16:23

Dear HSV,
I refer to your birthday greetings message to The Rangers Football Club, which I found on this link
http://www.hsv.de/en/hsv-congratulates-rangers-on-150th-birthday

Sadly, you have been misinformed.
Rangers Football Club that was founded in 1872 went into Administration in 2012. The Administrators were unable to find a buyer willing and able to rescue the club by paying all its huge debt. The club consequently entered Liquidation with millions of pounds of unpaid debt outstanding.

Some of the major assets were bought in what some people describe as a ‘fire sale’ by Mr Charles Green. He did not buy ‘Rangers of 1872’
Instead, he had to set up a new football club. Before it could apply for membership of Scottish Football Association(‘SFA), the new club had to apply for a shareholding in a recognised football league.

It applied for share in the then Scottish Premier League Ltd(‘SPL’)
The other Premier League clubs voted against that application.

It applied for a share in the then Scottish Football League Ltd. It was granted a share and was admitted into that League’s bottom-most position as ‘The Rangers Football Club Ltd’, a brand new club.
Only then did it become entitled to membership of the SFA and gained thereby entitlement to participate in Scottish professional football.

It is therefore an absolute untruth that the new The Rangers Football Club that was created in 2012 is the same club that was born in 1872 because that club ceased to exist as a club in 2012 when it had to surrender its share in the SPL, and lost its entitlement to membership of the SFA: there is no continuity of sporting existence once a football club has entered Liquidation.

Your message of ‘ congratulation’ is therefore ill-founded and merely encourages untruthful men to keep propagating a fiction, and brings shame on HSV.

Yours sincerely,
JC”

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bect67Posted on8:45 pm - Mar 27, 2022


UTH

Not to my knowledge – for to do so, OVERTLY, would be tamtamount to claiming the impossible – that the ‘Big Lie’ is truth and reality. Most of the allusions to continuity that I’ve come across, have been subtly suggestive, inviting people to believe the myth (not on SFM they don’t!). The SFA, SPFL and other clubs are too ‘feart’ to use the ‘L’ word, but their silence speaks volumes and tells you all you need to know – that the mighty, corrupt Glasgow Rangers ‘died’ in 2012. Those cowards know, but will not openly admit, this.

( In fairness – aye right! – I guess claiming that it is 150 years since (the original) Rangers ( now TRFC) was founded has some veracity – in a 150 minus 10 kind of a way).

The twisted wishful thinking , campaigning, and lying will only be dispelled when the final dissolution comes around (how will that be covered by the SMSM I wonder) – and even then … .

This must not be allowed to happen, and is the main reason why I continue to contribute to the SFM – and so, a final acknowledgement to you, JC, for your admirable, and unrelenting focus on the ‘Big Lie’!

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John ClarkPosted on11:25 pm - Mar 27, 2022


Bect67 27th March 2022 At 20:45
‘..I guess claiming that it is 150 years since (the original) Rangers ( now TRFC) was founded has some veracity .’
%%%%%%%%%
It is an absolute fact, Bect67, that it is 150 years since the year in which one of my grandfather’s was born. He was born in 1872.
It is also an absolute fact that the Rangers of the four young men was founded in 1872, and that it’s been 150 years since then.
It is also absolutely the case that that grandfather of mine died in 1951, aged 79 and that it’s 71 years since then.
My grandfather was loved and is remembered (by me anyway] for his magnificently imposing white moustache and his mock-serious frown when his daughter-in-law [my mammy],partnering him at whist, played the wrong card.
But, of course ,all the wishing in the world, all the emotion, all the remembrances , cannot bring my grandfather back. He is dead.
In like manner, the Rangers of 1872 foundation, having had to surrender its share in the SPL on being Liquidated, died as a football club in 2012.
And all the grief and sense of loss so deeply felt by supporters of that 1872 club is perfectly understandable : they truly suffered a bereavement .
And to make matters worse, it was a bereavement brought about , first, by the hubristic David Murray’s vainglorious boasting and tax cheating , and secondly, by his desperate readiness to be ‘duped’ by the likes of CW-touted by Keith Jackson to be a Motherwell-born multi-millionaire!
But the fact remains: the Rangers of 1872 ceased , on entering Liquidation, to be a recognised football club entitled to membership of the SFA.
And all the understandable emotion in the world does NOT permit the SFA, as a governance body, to manufacture a fiction that a club whose membership of the SFA was withdrawn by the SFA itself, is somehow still alive and operating 10 years after its death.
The Rangers of 1872 is dead.
Its tremendous record of sporting achievement died with it, and cannot possibly be attributed to the new entity that did not exist to kick a ball until 2012.
And it is quite, quite wrong that the SFA should have been prepared to lie and continue to lie.
And it was and is utterly unacceptable that the BBC and the SMSM should support and propagate that lie.
Like most people, I never thought for a moment that the Rangers of my street pals in the early 1950s would not be bought out of Administration! Someone would surely buy them, for heaven’s sake, I thought.
But none, NONE, of the big-talking chancers did so, so great were the debts.
And the jackals are still disgustingly sniffing about, looking to cash in, while the genuine supporters, the members of Club 1872, whose donations give them, individually, NOTHING get nothing but abuse and threats!

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vernallenPosted on1:59 pm - Mar 28, 2022


Has there been any update on the dispute between Rangers, the SFA and the cinch promotion. Or are two of the parties using a Ranger’s tactic of dealing with it at the end of the season. Its hard to resolve disputes when you keep pushing them down the table.

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upthehoopsPosted on6:14 pm - Mar 28, 2022


Vernallen 28th March 2022 At 13:59

Has there been any update on the dispute between Rangers, the SFA and the cinch promotion. Or are two of the parties using a Ranger’s tactic of dealing with it at the end of the season. Its hard to resolve disputes when you keep pushing them down the table.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The SFA found they had a case to answer over the 2011 European Licence, then just decided to drop it without an explanation. I don’t expect anything will come of the Cinch matter and it will also be dropped without explanation.

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paddy malarkeyPosted on8:35 pm - Mar 28, 2022


https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/rangers-hero-neil-mccann-loses-26574538

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vernallenPosted on10:50 pm - Mar 28, 2022


After all the news about the questionable EBY scheme you would have thought a recipient of such a program would tread carefully when dealing with the taxman. I believe the taxman would have a long and unforgiving memory when it comes to those who played fast and loose with the rules regarding taxes. Will McCann now follow the route another recipient took and transfer any assets to his partner or declare bankruptcy. Will SKY stilll want to employ him and will the DR still favor its readership with his slanted views of the game.

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John ClarkPosted on10:58 pm - Mar 28, 2022


Vernallen 28th March 2022 At 13:59
“..Has there been any update on the dispute between Rangers, the SFA and the cinch promotion. ..”
Upthehoops 28th March 2022 At 18:14
‘.. don’t expect anything will come of the Cinch matter and it will also be dropped without explanation.’
%%%%%%%%
I haven’t seen anything since the judgment of 20 October 2021.
I think the SFA cannot be blamed for thinking that Arbitration between TRFC and the SPFL was the proper way to go.
But I think they ought not to have sought judicial review of the lower Court’s decision that was based on a quite different interpretation of the ‘rules’.
That review by 3 judges of the Inner House ( 20 October 2021] upheld the right of Park’s (Holdings] to be regarded as an ‘interested party’ to any Arbitration proceedings between TRFC and the SPFL. [and, apparently, cinch could also claim to be an ‘interested party’ if they so desired]

So, the SFA cannot set up an Arbitration Tribunal unless they invite [Park’s Holdings] and cinch to be represented. For all I know, they might be going down that road even as I speak.
I suspect that, AT BEST, TRFC are just acting the madam for the sake of it. Like the scorpion in the fable, it’s just what they do!
I say that because if TRFC did/do have a contract with Park’s [Holdings] signed and dated[ or otherwise attested] before ever the SPFL negotiated and signed a contract with cinch, all they had/have to do was/is to produce it, with evidence that they had told the SPFL of their Park’s sponsorship deal before the SPFL committed itself to cinch.
At worst?
Well they might not have a signed contract with Park’s of Hamilton that pre-dates the cinch contract!
I mean, if a 10 year old club can claim with clenched teeth and out-thrust jaw to be 150 years old…what would they not be ready to assert?

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John ClarkPosted on11:25 pm - Mar 28, 2022


Vernallen 28th March 2022 At 22:50
‘..Will McCann now follow the route another recipient took..’
%%%%%%%%
Apparently , Vernallen, the taxman is not seeking to impose penalties on McCann, so, as with the BBC high-roller presenters who set themselves up as ‘companies’ and were paid by the BBC as companies providing services for a fee and not as salaried employees of the BBC, he is not deemed to be a tax evader, just as having misunderstood /been misinformed of his taxable status.
He, like they, will have to pay the tax due , but without penalty, and possibly by some not too onerous arrangement.
He will no doubt want to kick the ar.e of his tax adviser. Might it have been the porn film star of EBT notoriety? What was his name again ?

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Albertz11Posted on7:51 am - Mar 29, 2022


John Clark 28th March 22.58

” if TRFC did/do have a contract with Park’s [Holdings] signed and dated[ or otherwise attested]”
………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………
A written contract has been in existence since June 2015. It was
renewed on 17 May 2021.

https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/docs/default-source/cos-general-docs/pdf-docs-for-opinions/2021csih61.pdf?sfvrsn=f0711814_1

No obligation on Rangers behalf to disclose sensitive contractual information, especially given the relationship, or non relationship, between both parties.

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HirsutePursuitPosted on9:57 pm - Mar 29, 2022


Albertz11 29th March 2022 At 07:51
01Rate This

John Clark 28th March 22.58

” if TRFC did/do have a contract with Park’s [Holdings] signed and dated[ or otherwise attested]”
………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………
A written contract has been in existence since June 2015. It was
renewed on 17 May 2021.
,………………….

It’s interesting that Rangers has made a submission to the court that a contract has existed with Parks since 2015.

What has not been submitted, is that the contract included such terms that Parks should expect exclusivity in relation to Rangers commercial relationships with the motor trade.

The image in the following article (from 2019) suggests no such exclusivity rights exist.

https://dailybusinessgroup.co.uk/2019/08/rangers-punished-again-by-uefa-for-more-sectarian-singing/amp/

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John ClarkPosted on10:07 pm - Mar 29, 2022


Albertz11 29th March 2022 At 07:51
“..A written contract has been in existence since June 2015. It was renewed on 17 May 2021.’
%%%%%%%%%%
I expressed myself badly when I wrote ‘ if TRFC did/do have a contract with Park’s [Holdings] signed and dated[ or otherwise attested] before ever the SPFL negotiated and signed a contract with cinch, all they had/have to do was/is to produce it, with evidence that they had told the SPFL of their Park’s sponsorship deal before the SPFL committed itself to cinch.’ I had, of course, already read the judgment an should not have used a ‘hypothetical’.
And it was important that you made it clear that the Court was satisfied of the bona fides of the contract with Park’s Holdings.
As regards there being no obligation to disclose sensitive contractual information , it is surely arguable that TRFC as a shareholder club in the SPFL should have been ready to prove to the SPFL board , in absolute commercial confidentiality, that they were contractually bound to Park’s Holdings and therefore could not comply with the terms of the cinch contract?
Or did TRFC not know that the SPFL was looking to cinch for sponsorship of the SPFL and forewarn them that TRFRC would not be able to be part of that?
Or was it against SPFL rules for an individual member club to do its own thing sponsorship-wise, and that made TRFC reluctant to show the contract?
It’s been a piece of unnecessary nonsense and expense at all events, in my opinion, with the SFA not being too clever either.

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paddy malarkeyPosted on10:11 pm - Mar 29, 2022


Albertz11 29th March 2022 At 07:51
It may be down to which definition of ” Rangers” is being exposed here .

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bigboab1916Posted on10:29 pm - Mar 29, 2022


Toffee accounts

https://resources.evertonfc.com/evertonfc/document/2022/03/29/7e521047-6d5d-4d2a-af97-1ac4b40137fd/Report-and-Accounts-RGB-A4-v27-SPREADS-.pdf

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John ClarkPosted on12:20 pm - Mar 30, 2022


HirsutePursuit 29th March 2022 At 21:57
“..What has not been submitted, is that the contract included such terms that Parks should expect exclusivity in relation to Rangers commercial relationships with the motor trade.

The image in the following article (from 2019) suggests no such exclusivity rights exist.”
%%%%%%%%%
That’s a very interesting observation, HP.
I have to say that I took it for granted that the Court both saw the original contract, and checked that when it was renewed in 2021, the terms of renewal were the same as those of the original, and if the terms were in any way materially different they would not simply have used the word ‘renewa’l but would have adverted to
any change.
The presence in the stadium of adverts for Central Car Auctions in 2019 seems to indicate that the 2015 contract with Park’s did NOT confer ‘exclusivity’ on Park’s Holdings.
It would follow that if the 2021 ‘renewal’ was indeed simply a renewal of the 2015 contract in the same terms, then clearly Park’s Holdings still had no exclusive rights to the advertising of second-hand car sales, and the SPFL rights to secure sponsorship on behalf of the whole SPFL could properly be exercised and the contract with cinch would be binding on TRFC.
There must be a whole lot more to this than meets the eye: for it’s unthinkable that the Court of Session would accept that Park’s had ‘exclusivity ‘ that had not been part of the contract between TRC and Park’s.

Will we ever hear the full story, unabridged, unvarnished story?

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nawlitePosted on6:58 pm - Mar 30, 2022


So these accounts won’t cover Patterson’s January transfer, BigBoab1916. Still interesting to see how they present detail of transfers, though. By the looks of it, they won’t break down individual transfers sufficiently to allow us to see the actual amount paid by Everton, even if t was only a first tranche. Shame.

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Albertz11Posted on3:20 pm - Mar 31, 2022


https://www.rangers.co.uk/article/club-update-3103/5AsoLvrlSYpqUj2qJ197zm

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paddy malarkeyPosted on3:56 pm - Mar 31, 2022


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/60946014

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wokingceltPosted on5:30 pm - Mar 31, 2022


Thanks PM – I’m trying to get my head around the “tournament organisers were unwilling to fulfil their commitments”. Would these be contractual commitments? I will be curious to see what happens next here.

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paddy malarkeyPosted on5:35 pm - Mar 31, 2022


Wokingcelt 31st March 2022 At 17:30
I don’t think they could come out and say that it was because their fans were revolting , so putting the blame on the organisers is a no-brainer . Out of court settlement ?

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John ClarkPosted on5:40 pm - Mar 31, 2022


Paddy Malarkey 31st March 2022 At 15:56
“..https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/60946014
%%%%%%%%
Good spot, PM!
And what a gutless , useless reason TRFC give for ‘pulling out’ of the Sydney tournament.
“After it became clear the tournament organisers were unwilling to fulfil their commitments to Rangers, we have, with immediate effect, terminated the club’s agreement with the organisers.”
They blame the organisers? No, I think they were too feart of the power of Club 1872 to admit that it was Club 1872’s objections that forced them to withdraw, but couldn’t admit that, without strengthening Club 1872!
But of course that’s exactly what they have done.
They must be the most inept board of directors in Scottish Football.
May their stupidities and general attitude have the same ultimate result as SDM’s hubristic cheating did in relation to the dead RFC of 1872.The Tournament organisers will have no bother finding a more notable club to invite than a ten year-old facsimile of a club.

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Albertz11Posted on6:41 pm - Mar 31, 2022


John Clark 31st March 17.40

You vastly overestimate the power of Club 1872 John. With a membership of around 6-7000 and falling, having no relationship with the Club due to their own failings and no hope of buying DKs shareholding in the timeframe set out they are a busted flush.
Rangers participation in the Sydney tournament actually united the Rangers support in their opposition to playing any part in it. The reasons for the withdrawal will become apparent in time.
You may change your viewpoint if early indications behind this decision are proved to be correct.

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bect67Posted on8:18 pm - Mar 31, 2022


PM, WC and JC

“Unwilling to fulfil their commitment to *Rangers blah, blah”.

Good God in Govan – No wonder their follow, followers were throwing toilet rolls at Dens Park – what a load of s****!

(As for their demand (for that’s, in essence, what it was) to have the Old Firm branding included, there is no Old Firm. It has already been clearly stated, by CFC supporters , that their club is not half of anything).

TRFC also simply don’t want to be playing ‘second fiddle’ at AP’s coming home party and were looking for an ‘out’.

Logic would tell you that this 10 year old Govan outfit were presented with a heaven sent opportunity to help ‘grow’ an international brand (not many clubs as young as this one will get such an opening), but, once again, we have, in this farce, been presented with an example of the WATP, entitled, self-appointed elite (in their eyes) mentality. (can someone remind me how many trophies they’e won?)

If things don’t go their way, the go into a strop and take a severe ‘cream puff’. They also play the ‘victim card’ and …

… that summarises their moralistic ‘stance’ for me!

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paddy malarkeyPosted on9:11 pm - Mar 31, 2022


Bect67 31st March 2022 At 20:18

I wonder when the organisers got/get the info that TRFC have aborted ? Most folk in Oz would be a-bed at the time of the announcement .

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John ClarkPosted on9:26 pm - Mar 31, 2022


Paddy Malarkey 31st March 2022 At 21:11
‘..I wonder when the organisers got/get the info that TRFC have aborted ? ‘
%%%%%%
PM. I emailed ABC Australia Radio at 18.40 this evening to ask if they had reported the story. Nothing there.
I had earlier scanned ABC TV Australia all-night news live, but had seen/heard no mention of it on their ( Sydney] frequency about twenty minutes after reading your post.
It will be interesting to see how they report it, as they surely will?

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Corrupt officialPosted on9:30 pm - Mar 31, 2022


CFC PLC showing some wisdom in retaining an interest in the O**F*** I.P.
No be long now before they get the blame. lol.

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John ClarkPosted on9:46 pm - Mar 31, 2022


Just noticed this on ABC Australia TV news:

Rangers back out of Celtic match in Sydney
Rangers won’t play their planned Sydney Super Cup clash with Celtic after claiming organisers were “unwilling to fulfil their commitments” to the Ibrox club.
Digital Staff / Soccer / Updated 4 hours ago [Sydney time]
Rangers have pulled out of their contentious Sydney Super Cup clash with Celtic, saying organisers were “unwilling to fulfil their commitments”.
Fans of both Glasgow giants had protested against their clubs’ decision to sign up to play a friendly in Australia during the break in domestic football for November’s World Cup.
Rangers have now announced they will not take part – three days before Ange Postecoglou’s Celtic side visit Ibrox in a top-of-the-table Old Firm clash in the
A statement on Thursday read: “Rangers can confirm the club will not be participating in the Sydney Super Cup in November 2022.
After it became clear the tournament organisers were unwilling to fulfil their commitments to Rangers, we have, with immediate effect, terminated the club’s agreement with the organisers.”

It is understood Rangers cited issues over branding and payments, plus the timing and manner of the initial announcement.

A number of Rangers supporters were unhappy at the perception they would be playing support act to a homecoming jamboree for Celtic’s Australian boss Postecoglou.

Rangers supporters disrupted the Premiership win at Dundee several times before the international break by throwing toilet rolls and tennis balls on to the pitch.

Club 1872, a fans’ group which owns about five per cent of the shares in Rangers, had also criticised the Australia tournament amid other concerns with the Ibrox hierarchy.

The withdrawal comes ahead of a crucial period in Rangers’ season, with their Europa League quarter-final against Braga and a Scottish Cup semi-final against Celtic to come in April.

Some Celtic supporters had also criticised their club’s decision to sign up to a friendly against their city rivals.

The Glasgow teams had been due to meet on November 20 at the 83,500-seat Accor Stadium as part of a tournament also featuring A-League teams Sydney FC and Western Sydney Wanderers.

Rangers commercial director James Bisgrove had claimed his club would earn the equivalent of a season’s worth of domestic broadcast revenue by featuring in the competition.
“So it is something that the board have unanimously seen as a positive opportunity for Rangers Football Club,” he added in early March.
Rangers are now believed to be exploring other commercial opportunities for the World Cup break.”

Ha, ha: ” Rangers cited issues over branding and payments, plus the timing and MANNER of the initial announcement.”
Honest to God, what are they like?

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TimtimPosted on10:16 pm - Mar 31, 2022


Timing is everything and the thought of Sunday’s game being disrupted must surely have been of major concern to them. What will be interesting is if Dave King’s offer to foot the bill was accepted or as unconfirmed reports have said was rejected by the Ibrox Board . Up to 3m participation fee will now not be forthcoming but a bill for a similar amount could be making its way to Mr Park’s inbox. Park and Co will claim they listened to the fans concerns , King will claim he forced them to back down and the lawyers will claim another healthy fee trying to defend a threadbare case but as always it will kick the compensation demand down the road . Unfortunately the fans will believe that their actions prompted the decision and they could be right but it will just encourage them to resort to this behaviour again when things are not to their liking. If they want a good chance to recoup their losses then they should nip down to Ladbrokes and put a hefty wedge on a penalty to Rangers* for Sunday.

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vernallenPosted on10:37 pm - Mar 31, 2022


I agree with Timtim that fears of another Dundee debacle was upper most in the board’s mind when it came to cancellation. Why risk such a display with a world wide audience watching on tv, what would potential investors think, what would casual fans think, and what if this audience was treated to the usual sing song. The Scottish media which is quite willing to dig into world wide sources to celebrate a Rangers win in Europe may want to reach out to those in Australia and find out what caused the withdrawal, or, will that responsibility fall to someone who does a lot of digging into the matters the mainstream media tend to sweep under the carpet. Law firms must have Rangers on speed dial hoping to feast on another misstep. Does anyone on the board read or understand contracts, seems like they might have another Sports Direct situation coming down the pipe.

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paddy malarkeyPosted on11:51 am - Apr 1, 2022


https://twitter.com/KeithRo5808/status/1509672084666032134/photo/1

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John ClarkPosted on12:02 pm - Apr 1, 2022


I had a nice wee laugh when I read this piece in this morning’s ‘The Scotsman’:
” There will be other ways to generate revenue , but after being accused of putting ‘money before morals’ by one fans’ banner this is the first step in healing the rift that has developed between the Ibrox board and the disenfranchised element of the ‘Rangers’ support over this most controversial issue-the Old Firm Down Under.”
David Oliver , who wrote the piece, seems to believe that by withdrawing from the Tournament the board are taking the first step in ‘healing the rift’ between fans and club.
Is he not aware that TRFC have done little else but ‘put money before morals’?
They lie about how they came into existence, and lie about their sporting history, claiming to be 150 years old, and to be entitled to the sporting successes of a quite separate, truly historic, club which has been in Liquidation since 2012.
As said before, the lies of a football club are bad enough.
Poor , self-protective or partisan ‘journalism’ such as denies the Liquidation of RFC of 1872 and its death as a football club in face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, makes me glad that we do not have a military invasion to contend with.
What stories would we get then, I wonder?

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Corrupt officialPosted on12:14 pm - Apr 1, 2022


Albertz11 31st March 2022 At 18:41

John Clark 31st March 17.40

You vastly overestimate the power of Club 1872 John. With a membership of around 6-7000 and falling,
———–
Maybe so, but they claim to have documentary evidence of some serious wrong-doing. ….In Sevconia that is the currency of power. …..I doubt those allegations will be tested now.

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Corrupt officialPosted on12:32 pm - Apr 1, 2022


So Albertz….
D’ye think Sevco will challenge Club 72, and demand they put up or shut up, over their incredibly damaging allegations, or do you think Charlotte Fakes may return to wreak more havoc?

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John ClarkPosted on1:03 pm - Apr 1, 2022


From the Sydney Morning Herald :
“The decision to withdraw from the Sydney Super Cup will come at a hefty cost for Rangers, with overseas reports indicating they would be hit with a legal bill for breach of contract in the event of a withdrawal”

Didn’t King pledge to make up the loss of revenue if the Board withdrew,?
Will he also pay the costs if breach of contract action is taken and the organisers of the Tournament win?
How many instances have there been of RIFC plc/TRFC taking legal action only to lose?
I suspect that they must get very poor legal advice generally.

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John ClarkPosted on2:46 pm - Apr 1, 2022


How long will Bisgrove remain at Ibrox, I wonder?
I’m astonished that he hasn’t got off his mark before the Board get rid of him for his mis-judgment that caused a world-wide PR disaster, loss of £3 M and potential Court room embarrassment and further loss.
Oor Keef will have a field day and I look forward to him venting his rage and calling for Bisgrove to go!

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gunnerbPosted on6:43 pm - Apr 1, 2022


Happened to catch Mark wilson on a football podcast discussing referees and their approach to the game with particular reference to this weekend. Very disappointed to hear him say that referees should mibbees let a few early clashes go until the game settles down and then in the same breath to mention consistency!. A yellow card offence is a yellow card offence either in the first minute or the last and that is why supporters are so frustrated with ‘consistency’. This from a former pro.

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TimtimPosted on10:25 pm - Apr 1, 2022


@JC
King’s offer of compensation if they withdrew was reported to have been rejected by the Ibrox board (the red top that reported it is of low quality and has a history of misinformation) If they did accept it then I hope they got it in writing as he has a habit of making promises he doesn’t keep. The last time he put money into the club* he had to charge a large interest rate which he blamed on Sth African authorities and I doubt regulations have changed . The last thing Park wants is for King to come back with any sort of clout in the boardroom . I think his cold shoulder is still active but even on expiry he has been tainted by that terminally in the business world. I can only surmise that King wants his shares bought out asap and club* 1872 won’t have the funds for a long time which leaves the board as the only other option . King can and will cause problems but will the board pay up to be shot of him , can they afford to?

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John ClarkPosted on11:28 pm - Apr 1, 2022


Timtim 1st April 2022 At 22:25
‘…King can and will cause problems but will the board pay up to be shot of him , can they afford to?’
%%%%%%
I’m beginning to wonder whether my long ago view can be correct ,that King is motivated solely by his rage at having been stung for millions ( in his view) by that wretch of a human being , David Murray, and that King’s desire is simply to get his lost millions back, pure and simple.
But perhaps, after all, King aims to be King of TRFC and be another David Murray, working his way to majority shareholding?
Perhaps fanciful, but if King were to buy Club 1872’s shares ? ..and it’s roon about there that I get lost!
But it’s great fun to speculate.
And there’s something very satisfying when baddies fall out, and their Board is divided and there’s rancour and blame – and a useless Commercial director and even more utterly useless PR chief who cannot find a way to make the baddies smell good!
Honest to God! The sheer bloody incompetence of it all!
Who would invest in or be interested in a 10 year old football club that is so badly directed by such an overall incompetent board?
I will write to Minister Ayres in the New South Wales Parliament to say something like ‘ There you are, cobber: that’s yer ‘Rangers’ for ya.’
Or words to that effect!

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WestcoasterPosted on11:18 am - Apr 2, 2022


Enjoying a lazy Saturday morning and saw on the Sky Sports ticker that the EPL had reported that £272.6m had been paid to agents between the 2nd Feb 21 and the 31st Jan 22. Nearly spilled my coffee…… No wonder the games finances ( and sporting integrity) are going to Hell in a handcart.

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WestcoasterPosted on11:31 am - Apr 2, 2022


Gunnerb 1st April
‘Happened to catch Mark wilson on a football podcast discussing referees and their approach to the game with particular reference to this weekend. Very disappointed to hear him say that referees should mibbees let a few early clashes go until the game settles down and then in the same breath to mention consistency!. A yellow card offence is a yellow card offence either in the first minute or the last and that is why supporters are so frustrated with ‘consistency’. This from a former pro.’

Few who saw Kyle Lafferty’s head high kick on Morton’s Lewis Strapp with 90 secs on the clock last night would disagree.

On a positive note it was great to see Killie’s away support arrive in such numbers. It makes a pleasant change from looking at a near empty Wee Dublin end at Cappielow.

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Corrupt officialPosted on11:45 am - Apr 2, 2022


So fan group, Club 1872 claim to have evidence of serious wrong doing, but are happy to keep quiet about it, and keep it under their hat, if they get their own way…….Is that where we are now in Govan?..

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John ClarkPosted on12:36 pm - Apr 2, 2022


Corrupt Official 2nd April 2022 At 11:45
“…Is that where we are now in Govan?..’
%%%%%%%%%
Yes, CO, I’m inclined to believe so.
TRFC/RIFC plc are in as dark a place of lies and deceit as the now liquidated RFC of 1872 were in the days when David Murray hid from the SFA (if you believe the SFA) the true wages being paid to players and the truth about the EBT scheme.
I would suggest that they are possibly in an even darker place. I believe that they claimed ,and continue to claim, in the wider world of business and commerce, to be the Rangers of 1872 foundation, and that TRFC was floated as a public company on that basis of factual untruth.
It would be no surprise to me that there may be the odd e-mail or recording in the possession of persons who were privy to damning conversations and who carefully kept little reminders, just in case..?

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Corrupt officialPosted on2:50 pm - Apr 2, 2022


John Clark 2nd April 2022 At 12:36

Yes, CO, I’m inclined to believe so.
xxxx

A dark place right enough John. I believe every fan-base on the planet would be demanding the release of documentary evidence supporting such allegations, whether they went to Australia or not. It’s the casual acceptance of the fan-base, that this is the normal way of things in the Sevco boardroom that gets me.
Albertz may point out that there is a falling membership, but for a while it was large, and stocking it with vast sums of hard earned cash…..However they appear to have lost their tongues.
It really is a sad indictment of those fans that they are not demanding, “Get it oot anyway!”

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vernallenPosted on4:30 pm - Apr 2, 2022


Would the Club 1872 evidence of serious wrong doing by the board have similar weight to the dossier assembled by the Rangers in regards to the SFPL/SFA a while back. We know how that ended. Lay your cards on the table and if is there sufficient evidence call for an emergency meeting to discuss.

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Corrupt officialPosted on7:01 pm - Apr 2, 2022


Vernallen 2nd April 2022 At 16:30
10Rate This

Would the Club 1872 evidence of serious wrong doing by the board have similar weight to the dossier assembled by the Rangers in regards to the SFPL/SFA a while back
XXXXX
That is always a possibility Vernallen, but there is one subtle difference. One set of allegations did not achieve its objective, whereas the other did.

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John ClarkPosted on1:44 am - Apr 3, 2022


In my post of 1st April 2022 At 23:28 I wrote ” I will write to Minister Ayres in the New South Wales Parliament to say something like ‘ There you are, cobber: that’s yer ‘Rangers’ for ya.’”
I have just this very minute sent this to him on his Parliament email address
“Dear Minister,
I refer to an earlier email of mine which , I believe, was forwarded to you by your constituency office. I had, in mistaken ignorance, directed it to them and I pay tribute to them for their ‘politesse’ in dealing with a non-Australian voter!
In that email I pointed out that to refer to ‘Rangers’ as if it were the Rangers that was founded in 1872 is quite, quite wrong, as is any reference to there now being an ‘Old Firm’ .
That Rangers club is in Liquidation.
The present ‘The Rangers Football Club'(TRFC) has been in existence only since 2012: ask the SFA when it was that TRFC was admitted into membership if you want to check that.
You get the measure of that new club by its readiness to tell the world ( before it told the very organisers of the tournament!) that it had pulled out of the Sydney Tournament .
I think you were ill-advised to signal any kind of endorsement of their invitation and the false nonsense of ‘the Old Firm’.
But now that they have pulled out, it doesn’t matter.
All they have done is disgrace themselves as badly as David Murray disgraced the now Liquidated-in-2012 original ‘Rangers’ of my grandfather’s day by his EBT scheme ( hidden from the SFA and the taxman) and the ultimate cause of the death by Liquidation of that football cheating club.
I will say nothing about the organisers of the Tournament except, perhaps, to say that they might be a wee bit out of touch with reality.
Anyway, all’s well that ends well. I’m sure the organisers will find another British/European club of some standing to replace the false ‘Rangers’.
And I wish the Tournament well -and would love to be able ( might possibly be able, on a hoped for visit to my son and his family in Brisbane) to be with him and his pals, who have their tickets bought and paid for!)”

Well, Mrs C and I hope to be able to visit Brisbane sometime this year and it may as well be in November, running into Christmas.
But will Mrs C wish to a) come with me to Sydney? or
b) allow me masel to go down with son and pals ?
I’ll wait till we get there (if we do, of course] before I ask!

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vernallenPosted on1:22 am - Apr 4, 2022


Will the SFA address the second incident in recent weeks where Ranger fans have caused a delay in a game, and, look into the incident where someone from Celtic was struck and required stitches. How many more similar displays will occur prior to the end of the season. Will the Scottish media be digging into reports from around the world regarding Celtic’s win, it doesn’t take them long to find such stories on the back of a Rangers win.

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John ClarkPosted on1:57 am - Apr 4, 2022


My goodness me!
I have , in what I believe is computer-speak, ‘refreshed’: and what do I see as the most recent post but my own at 3rd April 2022 At 01:44.
Where is everybody?
I missed today’s [yesterday’s now , I note as I write] proceedings at Ibrox because I was in Edinburgh Royal Infirmary visiting Mrs C [there are , as we all know, more important things than football].
But I did catch on radio the utterly unbelievable , the criminal, the f..king Putin-like insanity of the truly evil sods who threw, in the half-time interval, shards of broken glass into what was to be the goal-mouth area of Hart .
God Almighty , that there should be such people!
Honest to God!
From childhood I remember bottles being thrown: easily seen and not likely to shatter when they hit the turf.
But individual bits of glass being thrown in quantity in what must have been a planned operation? ,
Now, that is evil , criminal , and lunatic. intent there
No question!
I make no comment other than that the TRFC/RIFC plc boards are in no position to cast a stone , they themselves being beyond the Pale in living ,and presumably profiting from ,a sporting lie, and only too ready therefore to placate the howling mob and yield to the basest sections of their ‘support’
Dear God Almighty , that our game, our national sport, should have been so corrupted by the very governance bodies who…., ach, words fail me!
How to describe those who allow a club that they admitted as a new club in 2012 to claim to be what they are not?
Dirty work at the crossroads,, no mistake, with a dirty wee ‘5-Way Agreement’ to bind the liars together in an unholy ‘legal’ conspiracy.
And , here’s the thing: the individual members of the SFA board and the SPL and SFL boards of the time, KNOW, they KNOW, that they have no defence against the charge that they were party to a stupid, stupid fraud.
They know it.
And they KNOW that they have no defence against the charge that they behaved dishonourably, for filthy lucre’s sake, and that they will go to their graves in what? less than , for the youngest of them, say 50 years? KNOWING that they are despised on that account.
[Note: I’ve just this minute seen Vernallen 4th April 2022 At 01:22.]

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Big PinkPosted on12:03 pm - Apr 4, 2022


John C
The character and recidivism of the Rangers* support apart, there is a quite separate and serious point about this violent behaviour (see also recent laser pen attacks) which, if not adequately dealt with by the authorities will lead to a real tragedy.
It’s a well known fact amongst the Casual community that “life bans” from stadia are non-enforceable. Even those criminally convicted of offences are only required to attend police stations on certain occasions.
Punishment, such as it is, of offenders is no deterrent whatsoever. It leads one to the conclusion that Strict Liability is perhaps the only solution.
Whatever the rights and wrongs of that, we can say with some certainty that it is the only mechanism that has not been tried, and that the violence is getting worse, despite the other mechanisms currently in place.

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