Redistribution of Football Income – The Human Dilemma

ByAuldheid

Redistribution of Football Income – The Human Dilemma

“Anyone read Michael Grant’s article in The Times? Only saw a pull-quote but the headline is about not everyone cheering for Celtic to European success since the financial windfall will put them too far ahead of the other clubs. It’s that old UEFA distribution thingy. Auldheid had a sensible alternative a while back.”

Thanks Danish Pastry for giving Big Pink the opportunity to nudge me (over a coffee I paid for – so how’s that for redistribution of income? 🙂 ) to blog again on the issue of redistribution of UEFA money whilst he was advocating gate sharing as an alternative.

I recall the redistribution debate being discussed on the first TSFM podcast Episode 1-01 of 9th Feb 2014 which can be found here:

https://itunes.apple.com/gb/podcast/scottish-football-monitor/id817766886?mt=2

Listening to it again (I used “View in I Tunes”) I heard many of the recent comments on the previous blog being made in that podcast at or around:

  9.58:   The interdependent nature of the business of football. Why it is different from normal business.

10.50:   Celtic/Rangers leaving the Scottish League making it immediately more competitive.

11.30:    Clubs as a community resource (like museums or libraries not run for profit, providing a community service and staying solvent).

12.48:    People have to let go of the notions that they have held about the nature of football and recognise it is a totally interdependent business.

13.55:    Changing the Champions League format to European and Regional Leagues and raising the standard of all, not dropping standards of one to bring about competiveness.

25.50:   A rethink at the top level with NEW thinking about redistribution of income using Champions League money.

27.50:   The human dilemma.

So rather than repeat what was said originally and very well developed in the comments on the Michael Grant article on the previous blog, I thought I would look at what I think is the greatest barrier to change which was the last item above – the human dilemma. *

 

Modern football reminds me of a description of a scene from hell where a visitor looks into one room and sees an emaciated group around a table on which is set a large pot full of stew. They cannot eat because their arms have been set straight at the elbow and elongated so that they cannot get a spoon in their mouths. It is a miserable place. Then the visitor goes upstairs and enters a similar room with occupants similarly handicapped, but where everyone is well fed and contented. “How can this be?” he asks his guide. “Well downstairs all their energies are spent in the nigh impossible task of feeding their insatiable hunger, whilst up here they simply feed each other.”

The analogy is bent a little but not broken in the sense that there are fat and emaciated folk in the football version of the lower room but it is not a healthy place as the fat can themselves become emaciated over time (see Liverpool and even Man Utd) but, generally speaking, self-interest or rather what is perceived as self-interest, holds sway.

Human nature that causes the human dilemma is well reflected in normal business where dog eats dog, then eats the food of the dog it ate if it comes out top dog. Football however cannot exist on a dog eat dog basis because it is interdependent as a business. Dog eating dog is bad for business because over a period of time even the top dog will die of starvation.

Now without abusing the dog metaphor any further and risk attracting dog’s abuse, why is it that something which should be as self-evident as looking after each other is good for business, be such a hard sell?

I said in the podcast around 12.48 that folk need to let go of the notions they have clung on to about football, but why is that so difficult?

Perhaps the resistance to that change can be found, at least in the case of Celtic, who at present are asked in the current debate to make a sacrifice for others, either in the form of gate sharing or giving up some Champion Leagues winnings (if/when they qualify) can be found in the genesis of the club and the memory of that genesis passed from generation to generation.

Everyone knows that the original purpose that Brother Walfrid had for Celtic was to feed the poor in the East End of Glasgow and many of that poor had come from Ireland to be strangers in a strange land.

As a Calton man born in the Gallowgate, as was my grandfather (my dad was found under a cabbage in Well St) I’ve never really identified much with the Irish context of Celtic’s history, although I do recognise its importance to many supporters with Irish family ties, but that dimension adds a further layer to the human dilemma.

Think of it, you form a football club to raise money to feed yourself because you live in an environment where welcome mats are in short supply. That money raised is YOUR money. Your life depends on it as does your family’s as well as your close neighbour (usually in the same close). How prepared are you to share what income you have had to raise yourself with others who you believe have been less than charitable towards you?

Add that folk memory to the human selfish trait of wanting what you spend on football spent on meeting your own desire, which is to make you happy watching an entertaining and successful team on the park and you get an idea of where the resistance to a more equitable sharing comes from and how deep it goes.

I use Celtic here because they are my club and part of my life experience and I have no idea if other clubs experience that added layer of resistance to sharing, if indeed they are in position to share. But if we are ever to be able to introduce gate sharing or what I see as the easier alternative of redistribution of UEFA geld because in not coming direct from supporters pockets it has less of the Celtic folk memory layer to overcome, then those who will be asked to make a sacrifice have to be given the confidence that the aim is not to impoverish them (and the Celtic community memory of poverty and fighting it is as strong today in the form of The Celtic Foundation, The Kano Foundation and the numerous charity events organised by supporters and prominent blogs) but to enrich their neighbours, but doing so in such a way that they enrich themselves. That is the challenge.

In the upper room in the earlier hellish description, the occupiers present the ultimate example of charity in that in feeding each other they feed themselves.

  • PS the podcast covers other issues that some 18 months later might still be of interest.

 

 

About the author

Auldheid author

Celtic fan from Glasgow living mostly in Spain. A contributor to several websites, discussion groups and blogs, and a member of the Resolution 12 Celtic shareholders' group. Committed to sporting integrity, good governance, and the idea that football is interdependent. We all need each other in the game.

1,442 Comments so far

Danish PastryPosted on7:26 pm - Sep 11, 2015


Had to laugh at this from Jim Spence, recently liberated from the newspeak of the state broadcaster:

@JimSpenceSport: Debating whether to liquidise my soup. Mind you if I do and don’t like it, I could always unliquidise it. http://t.co/2vjSoXrqBv

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Corrupt officialPosted on8:13 pm - Sep 11, 2015


Why does DCK wish to not only rescue, but breathe new life into a mythical holding company in liquidation, that frauded, robbed, and cheated, as it went about its day to day?
I am puzzled by it, but not as puzzled as trying to remember when was the last time I heard such sh**e.

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parttimearabPosted on8:44 pm - Sep 11, 2015


Interesting to see that DKs plan to resurrect the oldco is (theoretically) doable.

I doubt there’s much chance of sufficient funds being available any time soon but then again I don’t expect the liquidation process of the oldco come to a close any time soon either.

At least it would put the OC/NC stuff to bed…..personally I think we should have a whip round…

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Cluster OnePosted on8:52 pm - Sep 11, 2015


If DCK is into resurrecting the dead oldco(no laughing at the back)who get’s to keep the newco 3 year history?

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scapaflowPosted on8:56 pm - Sep 11, 2015


User Actions
Follow

“David Low
‏@Heavidor
If u think about it all the RFC action is focussed on the sale & purchase of old club, it’s liquidation & the purchase of its assets. Why?

David Low ‏@Heavidor 12m12 minutes ago Glasgow, Scotland
@chrisconnelly77 No, scam is unravelling. A resumed fight over the money & the assets. There’s more cash in old carcass than current club.”

I can buy that things are unravelling, King’s fantasy at least makes some sense in that context, but, I have difficulty buying the idea that there is cash in the carcass, that Kingco could get at, especially as I think EJ is probably right in his supposition that King’s claim will be/already has been rejected by BDO.

There are still quite a few pieces missing, to state the blindingly bloody obvious!

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The Cat NR1Posted on9:34 pm - Sep 11, 2015


John Clark says:
Member:
September 10, 2015 at 11:57 pm

scapaflow says:
Member:
September 10, 2015 at 11:17 pm
‘…Q: Do the newco jibes hurt?

A: Not as much as it hurts the fans. I’m told about it but I’m not in there all the time. It’s part of being in Glasgow. It’s part of the history of the two clubs.’
_________
And there we have it.

There is only one other club that King relates to. It is only Celtic fans who question TRFC’s origins and legitimacy.

What an evil attitude of mind the man brings, to try to bolster support for a very ailing club that is likely to die the death that the old RFC died.

And he, with all his squillions, will not risk any serious money to save!

The man is ,to the utmost degree, contemptible.
=============================================
Is that what he was saying?
I thought that the two clubs to which he referred were the defunct Rangers FC and The Rangers FC (nee Sevco Scotland Ltd), forming the two sides of the Ibrox franchise.

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The Cat NR1Posted on9:39 pm - Sep 11, 2015


Cluster One says:
Member:
September 11, 2015 at 8:52 pm

If DCK is into resurrecting the dead oldco(no laughing at the back)who get’s to keep the newco 3 year history?
======================================
Have the terms of Ally McCoist’s severance been made public?
He deserves to have that history as much as anyone. They could throw in the infamous founders painting as well.

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scapaflowPosted on9:44 pm - Sep 11, 2015


The Cat NR1The Cat NR1 says:

That was how I read it. That Rangers would only be whole when Tommy Steel & Julia Foster stick kings sixpence investment back together, while duetting Simply the Best :mrgreen:

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RyanGoslingPosted on10:20 pm - Sep 11, 2015


I’ve read several comments regarding oldco’s £24m debt to Ticketus. I thought a court found that Craig Whyte had misled Ticketus and therefore they were given leave to pursue him for the full debt, indeed there was a report that they were seeking to have him declared bankrupt. Surely that would mean they must be removed from the creditors list? I wouldn’t have thought they could pursue the same debt twice? I haven’t read the latest BDO report in case anyone has and can advise?

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RyanGoslingPosted on10:23 pm - Sep 11, 2015


On a side note, I’m watching the Bourne Supremacy. What a movie. It occurs to me with the recent chat about a book being written about goings on at the SFA, and also stories about a new Bourne movie, maybe the two could be combined? They could call it “The Bourne Association”.

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ianagainPosted on10:56 pm - Sep 11, 2015


Ryan
Correctly you say Ticketus were awarded 17.7m plus 680k interest against CW.
I’m guessing that now sits as a claim within the BDO list as CW is bankrupt.

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RyanGoslingPosted on11:01 pm - Sep 11, 2015


Thanks Ianagain – but surely they can’t just say “he’s bankrupt, we’ll try to get it from someone else”? I’d have thought legally they would become creditors of his assets, much in the same way as the Rangers face painter.

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ianagainPosted on11:07 pm - Sep 11, 2015


Ah now Ryan we stray into Sevco territory.
Maybees BDO do consider CW the owner of something (Rangers?). Only they know.

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scapaflowPosted on11:10 pm - Sep 11, 2015


RyanGosling says:

Wouldn’t it need to be more David Niven’s Casino Royale than Mat Damon though?

Good on you for doing the KBO as Chirchill would say, in what must be a surreal couple of days for sane Rangers supporters

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Cluster OnePosted on11:10 pm - Sep 11, 2015


something that just came up.
If king want’s to resurrect oldco and put the old rangers back into the old company,so it is the rangers of old.
Could(as i don’t know the in’s and out’s of such a prosess)Ask the players and staff and ex employees to pay back the EBT loans? : 😕

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redlichtiePosted on11:13 pm - Sep 11, 2015


My reading of DCK’s intent? Preparing the bears for a pre-pack which will have the avowed aim of uniting the carried over history with the oldco(rpse). Following Bill Miller’s incubator idea IIRC. Total b*llocks of course but will be lapped up by the hard of thinking and the lamb choppers.

DCK’s gonna need MA onside methinks in any event. How to achieve that I wonder?

Are the onerous contracts hoped to be shot down by upcoming judicial events? Are they going to brazen out the flak that will ensue from the beneficiaries if they just stop paying? Will some be spared?

Interesting times indeed.

Scottish Football needs a dogged and vocal SFM.

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RyanGoslingPosted on11:15 pm - Sep 11, 2015


Cluster One, EBT money was loaned through a trust, so only the trust could recall the loans, not rangers themselves. The trusts were separate legal entities.

Ianagain, yes Craig Whyte owned Rangers, but in the same way that Fred Goodwin could borrow money without the lender having recompense to RBS, in this case I believe Craig Whyte borrowed the money personally, rather than on account of what business he may have owned. Again, I’m basing this on media reports of court cases so if my interpretation is wrong I’m happy to be corrected.

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RyanGoslingPosted on11:18 pm - Sep 11, 2015


Scapaflow – it’s been a surreal couple of years, not days.

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ianagainPosted on11:27 pm - Sep 11, 2015


Ryan

This goes back to my most puzzled over conundrum. Of which I banged on about back on RTC, just what happened in those first transactions?

I’m hoping future events will unveil.

Bit like a detective novel you never had the first 10 pages of.

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scapaflowPosted on11:29 pm - Sep 11, 2015


RyanGosling says:

Fair point, wish I could say thing will get better,but it would just be an empty platitude, you get enough of them from Ibrox

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RyanGoslingPosted on11:36 pm - Sep 11, 2015


Ianagain I know what you mean. Given the number of parties involved and the amount of backstabbing, I actually doubt there is a person alive who truly knows what fully went on. With that in mind, we may never really know, but I hope I’m wrong.

Scapaflow, empty platitude? What’s that? And from Ibrox? Are you sure? I really don’t know what you’re talking about. Sure, there were liars at Ibrox before, but now that King is back everyone tells nothing but the truth.

Sorry, need to stop typing now, my tongue just burst a hole in my cheek. What’s the number for 999?

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HirsutePursuitPosted on11:44 pm - Sep 11, 2015


Ticketus purchased future season tickets at a discounted price. These tickets were to be re-sold through the Rangers Ticket Office at full price. The Ticketus profit was to be in the difference in price. Neither Rangers nor Craig Whyte borrowed money from Ticketus.

Ticketus sued Craig Whyte for their financial loss on the basis that they would not have sanctioned the deal had he disclosed his seven year director’s ban.

I am not entirely certain of their status as creditors with BDO. I do have a recollection that the Duffers felt that there was reason to exclude their claim in its entirety. Possibly for the same reason CWs claim was disallowed.

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StevieBCPosted on11:50 pm - Sep 11, 2015


Trying to do a quick catch up.
The jetting in of King, as ever raises more questions.
The olco and Scott Allan mentions must be merely misdirection, IMO.
There doesn’t seem to be any progress with Ashley either.
So what can King offer now ?

Apparently his children’s inheritance is not required, as TRFC is ok for cash – for the next 6 months anyway.

So King has stabilised the club already?

That is some feat… ?

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ianagainPosted on11:54 pm - Sep 11, 2015


Hirsute

Law Financial are back in court reviving the CW claim as of now. Not withstanding any previous claim. CW sold the rights a while back.
Hilariously retaining the book and film rights.

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John ClarkPosted on12:20 am - Sep 12, 2015


Let us assume that [Dave King]:

may have had some little magic circle whisper to the effect that HMRC has lost its appeal

And therefore knows that the total debt owed by the old RFC is not as impossibly high as it might otherwise have been ( and as SDM in his [] heart expected it to be),

then we would have the interesting question as to how our Football Authorities would handle matters.

Because, of course, the old RFC lost its SFA share.

In its resurrected state, it would need to apply for league membership.And, if(Ha!)that was granted, the revivified Rangers would necessarily be a brand new club!

It would be interesting to see how our Football governance people would handle that scenario.

Strike that that last observation!

We know damn fine, from their track record, how the lying so.s would deal with it!

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ianagainPosted on12:21 am - Sep 12, 2015


I am speculating but I think DK has (as have some other commentators) ,taken a punt and cut off the tap to the mysterious offshore triangularly, which so trouble’s the finances.

I’m also speculating he has made a major mistake.

Hence his upbeat financial projections.

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ianagainPosted on12:59 am - Sep 12, 2015


If HMRC lose this appeal (and a convicted tax dodger has been given fore site of same) there will be repercussions in legal circles.

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TallBoy PoppyPosted on12:59 am - Sep 12, 2015


Martin Williams in the Herald….

RANGERS chairman Dave King has had a claim for millions from the £18 million club oldco creditors pot thrown out by liquidators.

The South African businessman had claimed he was owed £20 million over an investment in the club 15 years ago, when Sir David Murray was owner. If he had succeeded it would have made him the third biggest creditor of the in-liquidation former operating company.

But the Herald understands the liquidators BDO have rejected his claim as an unsecured creditor – potentially raising the amount available to others stung by the oldco collapse. (continues for subscribers)

http://t.co/d8pT0lCLYT

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ianagainPosted on1:01 am - Sep 12, 2015


TBP

So that’s why he was here and why he’s now gone.

Sorry Dave your over an out.

What next?

This is bordering on unbelievable now.

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John ClarkPosted on1:10 am - Sep 12, 2015


TallBoy Poppy says:
Member:
September 12, 2015 at 12:59 am
‘..Martin Williams in the Herald….
RANGERS chairman Dave King has had a claim for millions from the £18 million club oldco creditors pot thrown out by liquidators…’
________
Good spot,TBP.

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Bayview GoldPosted on1:13 am - Sep 12, 2015


ianagain says:
Member:
September 12, 2015 at 1:01 am

This is bordering on unbelievable now.
==================================================

there are times when I want to walk up the marble stairs into the boardroom and say “guys gee it a rest for a few months, to let us all catch up, digest your latest antics and let our sides heal”

What a complete train wreck of an organisation, to have one out of control and dodgy leader/owner is unfortunate but 4 consecutively? (SDM->Whyte->Green->King) and that’s not even mentioning the Cecil B. DeMille sized cast of supporting buffoons

Ah well what would we do without them? 🙂

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sannoffymesssoitizzPosted on6:02 am - Sep 12, 2015


For some reason the DK interview reminded me of this classic scene….

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alan280170Posted on7:06 am - Sep 12, 2015


I see it’s armed forces day at Ibrox, wondering what shenanigans they will get up to today.

Speaking as an ex serviceman, I’d never go there as I don’t support RIFC, just as wouldn’t go to any other teams ground that I did not support for a freebie if I was invited just because I served/was serving, guess that’ll boost the attendance if not the cash gate today.

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SmugasPosted on8:25 am - Sep 12, 2015


HP

Ticketus’ failure to vigorously claim within the CVA was usually interpreted on here as their mistaken belief that would somehow, strangely, be ‘accomodated’ by the new entity which of course supposed to be 5088. When green ‘manipulated’ matters (allegedly) what he did which is conveniently forgotten by the blue masses is split the debt which is essentially the bank debt leaving it with CW from the assets which shifted to TRFC. Nice and tidy. But you would have to query why on earth CW would agree to it.

What’s that? Oh, apparently he didn’t and is understandably a bit miffed.

Never mind the OC nonsense. That’s where the real creativity lies. RFC (IL) has gone from an 18m liability (plus HMRC in its various guises) to an 18m asset, and it’s all down to Whyte.

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Ex LudoPosted on8:44 am - Sep 12, 2015


Is it “Young Frankenstein ” or ” Old Young Frankenstein ” we’re watching or both simultaneously? It’s very confusing.

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alexander276Posted on9:20 am - Sep 12, 2015


Will the old Rangers have to buy their history from the new Rangers? Or will they be Newold Rangers? What if the current Reproduction Rangers were by then promoted? Would Newold Rangers have to start at the bottom? We should be told.

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HirsutePursuitPosted on10:04 am - Sep 12, 2015


nder276 on September 12, 2015 at 9:20 am
Will the old Rangers have to buy their history from the new Rangers? Or will they be Newold Rangers? What if the current Reproduction Rangers were by then promoted? Would Newold Rangers have to start at the bottom? We should be told.
===========================
On the basis that the history sits with the ethereal non-corporeal entity, I think uncle Mike has that now.

Or maybe its like a ghost, and lies within the brickwork of the stadium. Might then want to have a word with Mr Whyte.

Maybe he sold it, like the Arsenal shares…

I’m sure they’ll find it… Big ugly thing… Badly stained… Big break in it (sticking plaster doesn’t fool anyone)…

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HomunculusPosted on10:08 am - Sep 12, 2015


HirsutePursuit says:
Member:
September 11, 2015 at 11:44 pm

Correct, just another bit of history which has been re-written.

Rangers didn’t borrow money from Ticketus, they pre-sold season tickets at a discount, their profit being the discount once the tickets were sold to the fans. That particular deal made the club going forward untenable. At that stage the business was dead. (All part of the contrived insolvency in my opinion)

Wavetower did not pay off the debt to Lloyds, they bought it, along with the floating charge. This is the point of the current claim, Rangers owed Wavetower a load of money and it is a secured loan. They think they are entitled to that money back from the liquidation, or at least the company which currently holds that debt thinks it is.

You would almost think it was part of the same plan. To end up with “A Rangers” playing out of Ibrox, but now debt free.

As an aside. I see Dave King has came up with a new wizard wheeze. He is going to compromise with the creditors of Rangers and pay them off, for a fraction of their debt. Then bring Rangers back to life. A post liquidation CVA. The man is an innovator.

Does anyone think HMRC are going to agree with that one. Does Dave King, or will it be HMRC ruining Rangers’ plans … again.

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jimboPosted on10:23 am - Sep 12, 2015


The good thing about DKs interview is that it’s the nearest thing we have heard since the autumn of 2012 that Rangers is a new club. That it didn’t come from the SMSM or the football authorities is hardly surprising but that it came from the chairman of Rangers is incredible.

The fact that a concept of there being an olco/newco is now out there and ‘journalists’ are openly mentioning the liquidation word instead of Admin. or Insolvency event. These writers must be choking at their keyboards.

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parttimearabPosted on10:33 am - Sep 12, 2015


John Clark says:
Member:
September 12, 2015 at 12:20 am
Let us assume that [Dave King]:

may have had some little magic circle whisper to the effect that HMRC has lost its appeal

And therefore knows that the total debt owed by the old RFC is not as impossibly high as it might otherwise have been ( and as SDM in his [] heart expected it to be),

then we would have the interesting question as to how our Football Authorities would handle matters.

Because, of course, the old RFC lost its SFA share.

In its resurrected state, it would need to apply for league membership.And, if(Ha!)that was granted, the revivified Rangers would necessarily be a brand new club!
============================================
I might be wrong John but isn’t it SFA membership and, separately a SPFL share?

Whatever, all DK would have to do (having done the easy bit in reviving the oldco 😀 ) would be to ensure that the oldco ended up owning the current set up….the directors would engineer a reverse takeover offering shareholders new shares on a one for one basis.

Come to think of it I’m not even sure which bit of the current set up owns/has the share/membership….if it’s not RIFC PLC but TRFC (think I got that bit right ❓ ) Then RIFC buying the oldco would suffice as they would then place it under the ownership of TRFC.

Simple… 😆

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easyJamboPosted on10:59 am - Sep 12, 2015


Homunculus says: September 12, 2015 at 10:08 am
——————-
Your interpretation of the loan arrangements seems a bit amiss.

You stated that Wavetower bought the debt and the floating charge from Lloyds. So far so good – that is entirely reasonable.

But where did the money come from that enabled Wavetower to pay Lloyds for the debt?

If that money came from Ticketus, then Rangers, by dint of selling future STs had already paid off Wavetower and in turn Lloyds, i.e. there was no longer any debt due by Rangers to Wavetower.

If, however, Wavetower had used its own money to pay Lloyds for the debt then there would be the possibility of Rangers owing money to Wavetower.

I’m sure that the above will be debated in court in due course, so I will say no more about it, as there are legal ramifications whatever method was used.

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HirsutePursuitPosted on11:24 am - Sep 12, 2015


CW’s assertion is that Wavetower provided a guarantee that the contract between RFC plc and Ticketus would be honoured. When RFC plc breached that contract (by ceasing to operate) it crystallised a contingent liability in Wavetower’s books to a real liability.

The question for the court, as I understand it, is does the debt created between Ticketus and Wavetower (by RFC plc’s breach) generate a consequential debt between Wavetower and RFC plc – that would in turn be covered by the floating charge.

I don’t have enough information to give any kind of opinion on this – except to say, that on the face of it, it seems to be an arguable case.

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Cluster OnePosted on11:37 am - Sep 12, 2015


The Blip years…New book out soon by DCK
OK i will get my coat 😉

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jimboPosted on12:02 pm - Sep 12, 2015


Regarding the continuity debate, it has always bothered me less that Rangers fans see the club as being the same. The team plays out of Ibrox, they wear the Blue & White, it’s the same fans who attend.

If it had happened to Celtic, I honestly believe I would accept that liquidation means a break in continuity, but in my heart it’s still Celtic.

On the other hand, what the football authorities did and have claimed since that there was no ‘blip’ is corrupt, aided and abetted by a cowardly media.

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parttimearabPosted on1:00 pm - Sep 12, 2015


jimbo says:
Member:
September 12, 2015 at 12:02 pm

On the other hand, what the football authorities did and have claimed since that there was no ‘blip’ is corrupt, aided and abetted by a cowardly media.
======================================
Actually Jimbo (and leaving aside for the moment what they did) the authorities have been rather (some might say remarkably) quiet on the subject.

IIRC Doncaster did come out with a “same club” statement but it was left unclear as to whether this was the official line from the SPFL or a personal opinion. In any case it’s not there call….which brings us to the SFA.

I recall Regan suggesting it was something fans would argue about and…err…that’s been it…silence, no official opinion from our governing body.

Worse imo than an actual statement of their position…either way.

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neepheidPosted on1:02 pm - Sep 12, 2015


I doubt whether King’s recent ravings have anything to do with prior knowledge of the Big Tax Case outcome, simply because whatever the result of HMRC’s latest appeal, the case can still go up to the Supreme Court. So King won’t get a final result this time.

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scapaflowPosted on2:09 pm - Sep 12, 2015


neepheid says:
Member:
September 12, 2015 at 1:02 pm

I am sympathetic to the view that BDO’s rejection of his claim led to some sort of “break”. Is it really as simple as King wanting his money back, and he will do anything, say anything in furtherance of that?

Anyway, I’m enjoying several beers while listening to a very old Laggan LP called I am the Common Man. Avanti Popolo :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

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StevieBCPosted on2:17 pm - Sep 12, 2015


So the ex-Cheeky Chappy has supposedly settled up with RIFC/TRFC ?

Would that, by default, mean that any gagging clause is also lifted ?

I fully expect a carefully orchestrated PR exercise to ‘rehabilitate’ McCoist’s image in the SMSM – with well selected, fawning journo’s giving him an easy ride.
:slamb: :slamb: :slamb:

And mibbees he will now have listened to advice to make a belated apology for his dog-whistling – brought on by the stresses of managing TRFC, and ‘totally uncharacteristic’ of him. 👿

While many others believe they simply witnessed his mask slip at that time, the SMSM will explain that anyone else but Super Ally would have collapsed under those stresses, [but don’t mention the GBP850K+ compensation.]

With an SMSM rehabilitated Super Ally, he can then get a chunky advance on a book, with a few serializations in the DR to whet the appetite ?

Either way, I’m quite sure that having foregone a few thousands from RIFC/TRFC – he will reap in many times over with his own, skewed and self-serving view of the last 3 years+ .

He will be even richer, but my opinion of McCoist will not have changed one bit !

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Big PinkPosted on2:39 pm - Sep 12, 2015


Naturally disappointed by the result today, and I don’t want us all to get into an argument about the minutiae. However the atmosphere in the stadium, quality play from either side, and the fact that it was a true and vigorously fought contest is inspiring for me.
As a Celtic fan, I was always more in dread of Pittodrie and Tynecastle (and even Muirton at one time) than I was at Ibrox. The dread was there today, and despite the result, I really loved it.
I thought the Dons were also worthy winners, so congratulations to them.
As an aside, by wife is over the moon. She was born in Aberdeen and taught Paul Quinn in Wishaw 🙂

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scapaflowPosted on3:11 pm - Sep 12, 2015


Big Pink says:
Moderator:
September 12, 2015 at 2:39 pm

Aberdeen the better team by a country mile today. Celtic need to take a hard look at themselves

back to the beer, which is really very good. Skull Splitter, brewed in Stromness.

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zerotolerance1903Posted on5:03 pm - Sep 12, 2015


Feeling really content this evening for some reason 🙂

:slamb: :slamb: :slamb: :slamb: :slamb: :slamb: :slamb:

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rougvielovesthejunglePosted on5:32 pm - Sep 12, 2015


Aye zerotolerance, isn’t this Armageddon lark a disaster altogether 😆

Its a marathon not a sprint but today proved that we are definitely at the races . There’s a light in the north.

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Bill1903Posted on6:26 pm - Sep 12, 2015


I for one will raise a glass to Mrs Big Pink and her former pupil Paul Quinn

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John ClarkPosted on6:54 pm - Sep 12, 2015


And there was Graham Spiers doing his bit to inhibit discussion of King’s nonsense about revivifying the dead Rangers, by making it plain that the subject was taboo, and raising it was anathema.

Sadly, both Cosgrove and Cowan accepted his de facto ruling and moved off the subject.

Will it be discussed on Monday night’s ‘Sportsound’, with perhaps a knowledgeable (rules out Patey) finance man, to tease out the possibilities and the possible mechanics of raising the leprous corpse? And someone who might try to explain how such a revived club would be admitted to the SPFL and SFA?

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jimboPosted on7:15 pm - Sep 12, 2015


At the risk of alienating me from every other Celtic supporter on here, I am looking forward to the last night at the proms (especially after that game today). I love classical music, and have played in the RAH. Have no time for Monarchy, but love the concept of Britain in the ist & 2nd world war eras. We should be so grateful for the sacrifices that many people made. That’s what I think of when I hear Land of Hope & Glory. (Not colonial power, but standing up against evil).

I’ll get my coat!

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paddy malarkeyPosted on7:30 pm - Sep 12, 2015


I’ll get in before anybody else does ! Partick Thistle Nil . Again !
Hit the crossbar and post ,though, so getting closer . Need a win before we lose the crowd . The only way is up.

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John ClarkPosted on7:39 pm - Sep 12, 2015


jimbo says:
Member:
September 12, 2015 at 7:15 pm
‘…At the risk of alienating me from every other Celtic supporter on here, I am looking forward to the last night at the proms (especially after that game today).
_______
That’s a very odd , if not actually impenetrably unintelligible post, if I may say so.

What do you mean exactly? That you will enjoy the jingoistic ‘Land of Hope and Glory’ all more because Aberdeen beat Celtic? Or just because Celtic were beaten?

One could easily form the impression that you are at the madam, while flying under false colours?
I sincerely hope not.
By all means enjoy good music and be as nostalgically British as you wish, but I’d rather you did not needlessly introduce a false note.

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SmugasPosted on8:09 pm - Sep 12, 2015


Yup. Swallows and summer and all that, and lest we forget there’s another transfer window before May, but I’d be lying-if I said there wasn’t a feeling of a tectonic plate shift, if not massive, but an angry grumbling nonetheless, feeling about the old stadium.

Of course it might have been the Armageddon kicking in.

Fwiw from a scottish perspective I didn’t think Celtic were that bad, which is not to say I agree with Collins earlier assessment, but Thursday could be whole new kettle of kippers I fear. Becoming clear how many games VVD, Commons and Griffiths were winning for you.

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jimboPosted on8:43 pm - Sep 12, 2015


That’s a very odd , if not actually impenetrably unintelligible post, if I may say so.

What do you mean exactly? That you will enjoy the jingoistic ‘Land of Hope and Glory’ all more because Aberdeen beat Celtic? Or just because Celtic were beaten?

One could easily form the impression that you are at the madam, while flying under false colours?
I sincerely hope not.
By all means enjoy good music and be as nostalgically British as you wish, but I’d rather you did not needlessly introduce a false note.
—————–

You are correct John, I shouldn’t have mentioned the result today. Was feeling a bit pissed off. Sorry.

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DrumbagoPosted on8:55 pm - Sep 12, 2015


John Clark says:
Member:
September 12, 2015 at 6:54 pm

If and its a really big if Dave King managed to revive Oldco Rangers from Liquidation and acquires the shares from CW then it seems to me that his idea is to Merge Oldco and Newco, that way Oldco gets its SFA & SPFL membership back courtesy of Newco

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jean7brodiePosted on9:05 pm - Sep 12, 2015


jimbo says:
Member:
September 12, 2015 at 7:15 pm
_________________________________________________________

Hi Jimbo
I think I, maybe, understand where you are coming from re Proms. My dad loved last night of the proms.
He was a Despatch Rider captured at Anzio and spent years in a POW camp. He was a massive Celtic supporter but still loved the nostalgia and memories of lost pals. I didn’t share his enthusiasm for it.

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parttimearabPosted on9:08 pm - Sep 12, 2015


paddy malarkey says:
Member:
September 12, 2015 at 7:30 pm
I’ll get in before anybody else does ! Partick Thistle Nil . Again !
Hit the crossbar and post ,though, so getting closer . Need a win before we lose the crowd . The only way is up.
=======================
Chin up Paddy…you must be due to play us soon 😆 🙁 😆 🙁

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parttimearabPosted on9:14 pm - Sep 12, 2015


Oh…While I’m on…and on the subject of the Peth shindig…am on the scrounge for a lift…so if anyone in the vicinity of Dundee is going…or if anyone from the frozen north will be passing through could you pm me if you can help out.

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John ClarkPosted on9:16 pm - Sep 12, 2015


jimbo says:
Member:
September 12, 2015 at 8:43 pm
‘..You are correct John, I shouldn’t have mentioned the result today…’
_________
Very good, jimbo.

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wottpiPosted on10:35 pm - Sep 12, 2015


Found Off the Ball’s discussions on Derek McInnes interesting. Despite the man doing rather well at Pittodrie and the current manager at Ibrox having a magic hat, the Dons manager’s natural home if he stays in Scotland is apparently Govan. Given the discussions re Deila’s coat being on a shoogly peg if things don’t pick up no one mentioned there is nothing to stop McInnes doing a Scott Allen – which would seem as good a move as any!!

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jimboPosted on10:53 pm - Sep 12, 2015


Jean,

Thanks for that reply. I voted yes at the referendum, but with a sore heart I have to admit. I am a labour supporter in my soul but lost my spirit with the blairites.

Getting back to your point, I dread to think what your father went through. But it’s folk like him that makes me feel proud to be from this country.

My dad tried twice to get into the army during WW2 but got turned back because he was a miner. so he joined the Home Guard.

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Danish PastryPosted on11:32 pm - Sep 12, 2015


jimbojimbo says:
Member:
September 12, 2015 at 7:15 pm

….but love the concept of Britain in the ist & 2nd world war eras…
———-

Isn’t it all wearing a bit thin? There was a big anti-war movement before WWI, not only in the UK, also across Europe, but in spite of Europe’s workers being against war it was full stream ahead to a real Armageddon. And no sooner were the soldiers back trying to find work than Churchill was sending tanks up to Glasgow to put down workers protests.

Certainly fighting tyranny in 1939-45 conflict, which is ironic since much of the current broadcast and print media could have trained by Goebbels and the invasion of Iraq seems no different to the invasion of Poland by the Nazis. Sorry, this type of thing seens no more than a thinly veiled attempt to promote some kind of Britishness on the colony in the north.

I think it was Spiers who was talking about the current Aberdeen manager being destined for Ibrox one day. Suitably ridiculed by Stuart & Tam. Spiers is living proof of the stupidity of trying to be all things to all men (and women!).

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John ClarkPosted on12:39 am - Sep 13, 2015


King in the Sunday Herald:

“They would want to see the criminal case run because of the ability to get evidence. I don’t think it could possibly be resolved in two years. I would say it would be closer to five years than two.”

If it is shown that Rangers have been the victims of criminality, King believes there will be conversations to be had with the Scottish football authorities over the way the club was ordered to begin again in the old Third Division.

“I think that would be awkward due to the way Rangers were dealt with by the authorities in terms of the initial relegation,” he said. “That could possibly come up as an issue again.”

And other such guff!
Having a go at our Football Authorities who sold their feckin souls AND the integrity of our game to try to keep a ‘Rangers’ alive!

Biting the hand that feeds you is not in it!

And, of course,as with all men of no principle, our football authorities personnel get the punishment they deserve- the scorn and contempt of the
contemptible people they pandered to.
I love it!

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Paulmac2Posted on9:13 am - Sep 13, 2015


Well done to Aberdeen…as a Celtic fan our performance was poor…our tactics were wrong…defensively we are a nightmare…

DO we have a title race…indeed we do..and that is to the benefit of Scottish football…

You just have to look at the current stats…Aberdeen have conceeded 2 in the league…Celtic 8…there in lies the problem…one which will not go away quickly…

On another note I spoke to a friend last week who has a relative playing for Celtic and he informed me the dressing room is awful…most of the players do not like or get onwith RD….so it would seem our problems will continue with the in-house issues and our inability to defend…

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Paulmac2Posted on9:20 am - Sep 13, 2015


John Clark says:
Member:
September 13, 2015 at 12:39 am
…………………..
His claim of relagation is a lie…a claim that if were true he has every right to seek legal redress…as there was no grounds to relegate a club that finished 2nd…

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yourhavingalaughPosted on9:44 am - Sep 13, 2015


Paulmac2
The glove has been thrown down for the new President of our SFA to pick up ,if he doesn’t ,well ,he has to go also, he has the chance to clear out the perpetrators from within the SFA at the same time as exposing the shenanigans that colluded to produce this pantomime ,we will find out if the man has a pair.If not ,King will continue without doubt to ridicule the 6th floor incumbents at the Big Bunker

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jimlarkinPosted on9:47 am - Sep 13, 2015


http://news.stv.tv/west-central/1328531-expert-explains-barriers-to-dave-kings-rangers-oldco-revival-plan/

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Paulmac2Posted on9:51 am - Sep 13, 2015


jean7brodie says:
Member:
September 12, 2015 at 9:05 pm
………………..

Both of my grandfathers had no time for things like the proms…neither could bring themselves to recall what they had been through or experienced at first hand…one of them served in the 11th armoured division and become an atheist after he was given temporary guard duty at Bergen Belsen…they hated anything that resurfaced those memories…yet today they would be accused of being anti British…they were anything but.

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neepheidPosted on9:54 am - Sep 13, 2015


Paulmac2 says:
Member:
September 13, 2015 at 9:13 am

Well done to Aberdeen…as a Celtic fan our performance was poor…our tactics were wrong…defensively we are a nightmare…

DO we have a title race…indeed we do..and that is to the benefit of Scottish football…

=================================
Unless the Celtic defence improves considerably, and very soon, it could be another one-horse race- but this time with Aberdeen way out in front. Not a bad thing for Scottish football, in my opinion, but I do fear for Scotland’s wider reputation if Celtic go on to get some pastings in the Europa League.

So much for Deila’s much trumpeted healthy living regime- his team is making a habit of shipping late goals, not usually a sign of superior fitness. And don’t get me started on how they “defend” set pieces.

If Deila really has “lost the dressing room”, then his jaiket is on a very shaky nail. His attack on the players after the Malmo debacle may have been the beginning of the end. Which is a shame, because I thought he brought some good ideas with him,and he seems a very nice young man, but football management really is a brutal game- unless your name is McCoist, of course.

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motor redPosted on10:45 am - Sep 13, 2015


kudos to many celtic fans for taking yesterdays result on the chin and showing much humility,not something we will ever see down govern way. i still think celtic will win the league ,though its has to be said aberdeen have brought in some pretty good players unlike celtic who seem to have gone backwards in that department ,i think some celtic fans would agree with that. though credit to griffiths a nightmare for any defence and seems to have improved that bit more since his move, the utd players dont seem to have reached the required standard IMO,thankfully.pity the weather was so poor, even then both provided much quality and entertainment considering. loving armageddon and kings outspoken revelations.

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