A recent autumn storm caused the destruction of the metal goal fame in our garden. The small goal with the weather-beaten net had fallen into disuse. But I liked it seeing it there on the grass. I suppose I half-expected, half-hoped, it would be used again. Once, it was a father and son thing and had been constructed carefully from a nice set of plans. At the time, it impressed both son and daughter no end. But that was then, this was now.
One of our trees, blown over by the recent high winds, caused the goal frame’s final demise. As I unscrewed the twisted metal I thought of the hours of innocent fun it had given us. It had been the scene of many goals and not a few great saves. My son, who is soon off to uni, smiled thoughtfully as I mentioned that this was the end of the ‘goalposts of childhood’. Perhaps he knew what I meant.
My own childhood goalposts had been ‘doon the back’. Drawn with chalk on the red brick of the ‘sausage wall’ at one end, and on part of the ‘wash hoose’ at the other. Many a league, Cup and international match was played out between those goals on the Dennistoun dirt. We once put on a parallel version of a historic England v Scotland match while the real match was being played at Wembley. Jim Mone sitting on one of the dykes had a transister radio to his ear. As we played our match he chalked up live score updates on the wall — our Twitter and FaceBook anno 1967. What a day.
We did use a pile of jackets up on the old Dennistoun cricket pitch, but only rarely. Mostly, we played on the red gravel surface at the Finlay Drive entrance. That pitch was fitted with real goalposts — like the ones they had at Hampden. Or so we imagined.
These sentimental memories of receding years accompanied my removal of the ruined metal goal frame. But, as you can imagine, it seemed an almost symbolic act. For fans of Scottish football the ‘goalposts’ that once defined the game of our football childhoods — have not only been moved, they’ve been been twisted and mis-shapen out of all recognition.
The past decades have seen a fundamental change in the way our game is run and governed, at home and abroad. Money is now king and sporting consideration is a luxury we sometimes have to put to one side — or at least, so we’re told.
At the risk of stating the obvious, sport, if it is to mean anything at all, has to be based on clearly defined rules and principles. These rules must be applied equally to all the participants, they are certainly not optional extras. However, to misquote and paraphrase George Orwell, ‘all teams are equal, but some teams are more equal than others’ — at least, when it comes to Scottish football.
The efforts by the SFA to re-interpret rules to fit the unfortunate circumstances surrounding the demise of Rangers FC in 2012 have left most of us scratching our heads. Much of the Scottish media has backed up the SFA’s efforts, something which has added to the general confusion and chaos. In fact, it’s become clear that the death of Rangers, as we knew them, has been such a traumatic event that it must be denied. The authorities and media seem to have been so besotted with one club that its loss is out of the question. And so, it’s been gifted a bizarre kind of immunity from liquidation and death that implies its on-going existence, long after it drew it’s final breath.
This situation has opened the door to a legion of businessmen on the make. They have been allowed to perpetuate the myth, with SFA blessing, that they ‘saved’ Rangers. And their unwavering message is, that they can only succeed if fans keep giving them their hard-earned cash. To those outside the blue bubble it looks like a huge con trick. If the only source of real money in football is the fans, then the Ibrox faithful have been royally fleeced.
How different it could have been if the former club had been allowed a dignified end. A year out of the game would probably have allowed fans to restart a newco of their own. They could have applied for entry into the professional leagues along with the other clubs waiting in line. Chances are they would have been given special dispensation, and walked straight into the bottom tier. Of course, they would have claimed to be the continuation of the spirit of the previous entity — but would anyone have argued against that? How different it could have been if the rules governing the game had been respected. The SFA may even have kept their dignity intact and the press not felt obliged to print half-truths, falsehoods and lies.
You’ve got to wonder why Dunfermline and Hearts fought so desperately to avoid liquidation. After all, the Scottish football authorities now seem intent on convincing us that liquidation has little or no effect on a football club. Even past sins, such as wrongly-registered players are as naught — if, at the time, they were thought to have been registered correctly. By this logic, we have to ask: if a ‘company’ running a ‘club’ bribes a referee, will retrospective action will be taken against the ‘club’. The players and the club, after all, will have done nothing wrong. And since the referee was not known to have been bribed, and not struck off, he was qualified to referee the match in question, at the time. Using the SFA thought process, the result would probably be allowed to stand. Personally, I’m not sure I follow SFA logic. They’ve ‘moved the goalposts’, and (you saw it coming) bent them into an unrecognisable shape.
Which brings me back to our garden. The old metal goal frame is waiting to be driven down to the local re-cycling centre. The twisted metal and worn-out net are useless. Ruined by forces beyond our control. There is no interest in a replacement at present. Perhaps, if we have grandchildren, they will show an interest in football. If they do, I’ll build a new set of goalposts. They’ll be straight and true, the way the goalposts of childhood should be. The way goalposts should always be.
In having a look at the Westthorn land sale by Glasgow Council to Celtic FC I unearthed a fascinating piece of legal and social history involving the land which I would love to see commemorated by Celtic in some way as typifying the Glasgow Spirit.
Perhaps when we sell the site for £10 million – love this State Aid nearly as good as the CL – we could name the house-lined streets after the brave East Enders who not only physically fought for the Right of Access to the Clyde Riverbank but who eventually won a historic legal victory in the House of Lords and also demonstrated the potential crushing economic power of a successful boycott
I hope this piece isn’t regarded as OT as it really is a bit of a morality tale and an affirmation of the unstoppable force of individuals when they band together and unite in the Common Good to defeat the excesses of their wealthy and powerful ‘Maisters’ who used The Dragoons to protect their illegal removal of a time immemorial right for Glaswegians to stroll on the banks of the Clyde.
The story began in the 1800s when carter Tam Harvey opened some licenced shops selling meal and whisky, rapidly prospered and built a distillery in Harvey Street, Port Glasgow, which enabled him to buy the lands of Westthorn on the Banks of the Clyde.
His first action to secure absolute privacy over his domain was to build a wall preventing East Enders using the Right of Way to stroll and relax by the Clyde on their day off work which truly was an escape into the countryside from the dark Satanic mills – I kid you not.
Indignation rose with letters to the press, articles and pasquinades – these were anonymous ‘lampoons’ and used by the twitterati of the 1820s to goad and deride their opponents. Harvey and his wall stood firm however but things came to a head in the summer of 1823 when weavers and other workers from Parkhead and Bridgeton stormed the wall armed with axes and crowbars. They levelled the stone portion and burnt a timber section to the ground but had to scatter on hearing news that The Dragoons had been called out to quell the social unrest of the revolting peasants 😀
A number of the ringleaders were later jailed for various offences especially in view of the history of the period and Establishment jitters at the reported use of gunpowder to reduce ‘Harvey’s Dyke’ which was immediately rebuilt albeit more strongly and with a small fort and cannon. The wall was also topped with cheveux de frise – originally sharpened stakes mounted as a mediaeval anti-cavalry measure which by the 1800s had metamorphosed into cement-embedded broken glass on top of urban walls which were still doing duty in my Gorbals childhood.
A few years passed in which the East Enders gathered funds from fellow citizens of all classes and mounted a legal action which ended up in the House of Lords and which affirmed their right of way on the river bank at Westthorn. Harvey was badly hit by the costs and completely ruined financially because of a highly-organised boycott of his shops.
The wall came back down and a new owner bought the lands of Westthorn and was happy to allow the East Enders to enjoy the riverbank without hindrance.
Just a few names I managed to find described as ‘Glasgow Gentlemen’ who assisted the workers in their legal fight were: George Rodger of Barrowfield Printworks, “Sandie” Rodger the poet and Adam Ferrie, who emigrated to Canada.
ecobhoy says:
January 19, 2014 at 5:37 pm
The spirit lives on, the good folk of carluke have just got some og their common land back, 86 acres down several million to go
ianjs says:
January 19, 2014 at 4:51 pm
Normally I’d expect Son of a Bitch to be SOB.
Tif Finn says:
January 19, 2014 at 4:25 pm
Do you think that Celtic should be suing the Council for compensation, if they knew they were selling the club what is effectively little more than a nuclear wasteland.
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Actually my understanding is that the difference in price between the price paid by Celtic and the open market value for housing will cover the costs of reinstating the land back to a condition that houses can be built on it.
It may well be that following the Commonwealth Games and the conversion of the Athletes’ Village into ordinary housing stock that there could be increased demand for housing devcelopment land in the area especially with the new amenities, improved transport links and general facelift.
If that happens a developer might well decide they will do the reinstatement work. But that’s the name of the game as it could go the other way and Celtic could lose money but as I mentioned earlier they seem to know what they are about in property terms as well as football which actually shows the strength of the Board at the club.
I think that there is also an element of good neighbourliness by Celtic and a genuine wish to see a successful East End regeneration. It’s good for the area and it’s good for Celtic especially as a club with high European aspirations.
We are moving into a new era and I fervently hope that we can leave a lot of the past behind where it belongs.
iamacant says:
January 18, 2014 at 11:38 pm
34
0
Rate This
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/rangers/10581698/Rangers-manager-Ally-McCoist-blames-rogue-traders-for-clubs-plight.html
Ally now a financial wizard? Another CA in the making at Ibrox perhaps?
_______________________________________________________
“Some bigger boys did it and ran away miss!”
It truly is the mark of the man, isn’t it!
scapaflow says:
January 19, 2014 at 4:27 pm
ecobhoy says:
January 19, 2014 at 3:57 pm
Eco: So what you are telling us is that this criminal genius behind “a conspiracy on a scale so immense as to dwarf any previous such venture in the history of man. A conspiracy of infamy so black that, when it is finally exposed, its principals shall be forever deserving of the maledictions of all honest men.” –
would be less a Blofeldt and more of a Blofeck?
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I get the Bond and McCarthy connection but I just don’t get the ‘Blofeck’ one 😕
cosmichaggis says:
January 19, 2014 at 5:58 pm
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I was thinking the same thing. I keep reading about Scottish football is sinking to new depths, how Rangers in the top division is needed, how there’s an irreversible decline – but the evidence doesn’t seem to suggest that this is the case at all.
Over 20,000, Hibs biggest crowd in 20 years, turned up to watch the Edinburgh derby on new years day. Over 12,000 turned up at Tannadice to watch the New Firm derby on the same day, despite there being no public transport running and it being a wet, miserable one at that. Hearts, despite their troubles, continue to pack their ground every match. Most clubs in the SPL, or at least those where there isn’t a standoff between the fans and the owners, have seen their crowds rise. Almost every team in the top division continues to try and play football. Alright, it’s not quite tica-taca, but it’s a far cry from the long ball lumping of a few years ago. We’re even starting to see our sides produce youngsters that the top teams in Europe are keeping tags on. To me, Scottish football has never been healthier. Note that’s SCOTTISH FOOTBALL, not Celtic or The Rangers. We’ve got a genuinely interesting league race at the moment. Celtic are way out in front, but introducing The Rangers is hardly going to change that.
Speaking of which, Celtic’s champions league fortunes this season seem to be getting squarely blamed on the lack of Rangers, which is, frankly, nonsense. The seeds of Celtic’s situation were sown when their board stepped back from the stupid, EBT fuelled, arms race with Rangers, and Martin O’Neil went on his way. It wasn’t sustainable and they knew it (unlike certain others). What Celtic are finding on a European level, is what other Scottish clubs suffer from at domestic level – and that is their football fortunes come in cycles. Celtic will, for a season or two, manage to keep together a side that can compete at a European level, before that side is dismantled through more affluent clubs buying their best players and the need to balance the books. They then have to start that cycle again, so they hit a dip for a season or two, before they start to crescendo again, through a combination of youngsters and their scouting system.
It’s the same for other Scottish clubs. They will put together a decent side that will allow them to match Celtic, at least in one off matches, before, eventually, their side is dismantled in much the same manner. Dundee United and Aberdeen will do well to keep their current sides together for the next two years, but they will be picked clean of all their talent eventually, and so the cycle begins again for them.
And that’s the way it should be. We’re a small country. On occasion our teams will punch above our weight, but we shouldn’t expect it on a regular basis. The idea that Celtic should expect to best AC Milan, Barcelona and Ajax, teams with budgets far in excess of anything they could dream of, is ridiculous.
Last season’s win over Barcelona was a great result for Celtic, but it was a surprise rather than a foregone conclusion, much like St Johnstone’s victory over Rosenborg (a team with 10 times Saints budget at least, lest we forget) was a surprise.
So, to summarise – Scottish football, it’s getting back to where we were in the early 80’s, and I love it!
Shooperb says:
January 19, 2014 at 6:35 pm
Superb post Shooperb!
Every rational Scottish football fan would agree with every sentence of that.
Chick Young and Keith Jackson on the other hand . . . .
ecobhoy says:
January 19, 2014 at 6:21 pm
Blofeck, Blofeldt’s younger dimmer brother who tries hard but never quite makes it –
– a bit like my sense of humour at times
ecobhoy says:
January 19, 2014 at 3:34 pm
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A look at the old maps does reveal some seriously polluting industries in that part of town.
A sports club I was a member of in the East End of Copenhagen moved to some new council ground because of the extension to the national stadium. The ground for the new pitches and tennis courts had been polluted in past times, and so the council undertook an extensive clean-up, removing top soil and finally creating an undersoil membrane to isolate the lower level before filling in new top soil. Expensive project, bill paid by the council — it was their ground and had to be cleaned up before use. It was the law. Makes you wonder if Celtic have any possibility to recoup eventual losses from what could be a hugely expensive environmental clean-up project?
rougvielovesthejungle says:
January 19, 2014 at 7:07 pm
Cheers, Rougvie – I just get fed up with the perceived wisdom that Scottish football is in the depths of a depression. Everything surrounding the game might be, but the actual football itself doesn’t require any fixing!
nowoldandgrumpy says:
January 19, 2014 at 2:13 pm
With regards to the McGill’s and Malta I doubt there is anything in this but from recollection Maltese buses are not standard width. Buses that run in the Chanel Islands are also narrow and therefore expensive and in limited in supply, bought often in Malta and brought into the Channel Islands. Maybe it’s an opportunity to make some money in the selling of buses or maybe once the Spivs have got their cash he intends to run them all round all the different investment houses with their wads of cash.
Shooperb says:
January 19, 2014 at 6:35 pm
============================
A very good post.
briggsbhoy says:
January 19, 2014 at 7:21 pm
Or maybe the management won’t be able to run to a châteaux in Normandy, but might manage a single end in Valletta?
Of course, there may be other reasons for people with a penchant for cash businesses to want a presence on the Southern fringe of the EU?
Or it could just be the usual standard of journalism – print any old crap that sounds good?
Great posts Shooperb & Cosmichaggis.
The OF was a poison to Scottish football for many reasons, and you’re right to highlight the role of the compliant duopoly in making sure it secured the cream for itself.
In the unlikely event that the blue half of Glasgow finds its former strength, I’d like to think that the Celtic I’ve learned much about over the past couple of years would stand shoulder to shoulder with teams from Inverness to the Borders rather than commit to a new marriage of convenience with any mirror image of its former OF partner.
If you think that RFC is a financial basket case it pales into insignificance with the bus industry in Malta. Another attempt by Jack to portray the brothers as international moguls. Any bears that buy into this nonsense deserve to get fleeced again. I can only assume that Jack gets paid by the headline.
tomtom says:
January 19, 2014 at 7:47 pm
Stop it, I’ve got that Rab C Nesbit episode set in Spain running in my head now
ecobhoy says:
January 19, 2014 at 5:37 pm
Eco, thank you for that wonderful bit of history.
Danish Pastry says:
January 19, 2014 at 7:36 pm
Well said.
I hope the Scottish football gets to the point where the top flight resembles the first half of the 1980s and not the first half of the 1990s.
Danish Pastry says:
January 19, 2014 at 7:15 pm
It was the law.
Makes you wonder if Celtic have any possibility to recoup eventual losses from what could be a hugely expensive environmental clean-up project?
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DP…thank you for that piece…from an enlightened society/community needless to say..
Would it not be the ultimate irony, if as a result of this particular “squirrel” being let loose from the various Bears’ sites, that Celtic FC did indeed claim, successfully for compensation in say five or ten years hence?
Such would be the ultimate Karma…!
Apologies if already posted. Is this Doncaster buttering us up for more shenanigans? Shirley this isn’t the way he sees as a possibility to save Hearts from the drop if Hamilton,Falkirk,Alloa or QOS win promotion. We need to keep an eye on him again methinks. If these pitches are good enough for UEFA, FIFA, the Champions league and world cup qualifiers they are good enough for the SPFL Premiership.
Plastic pitches could bar clubs from entering the top flight, says SPFL chief executive Neil Doncaster
19 Jan 2014 08:21
NEIL DONCASTER has warned that any club wishing to use a synthetic pitch will have to seek approval to use it in the Premiership.
SPFL chief Neil Doncaster SPFL chief Neil Doncaster
SNS
NEIL DONCASTER has revealed Championship clubs will not be guaranteed entry to the Premiership if they win promotion.
The SPFL chief executive has told the likes of Falkirk, Hamilton, Alloa and Queen of the South that their synthetic pitches could hamper their progress.
If they opt to keep the current surfaces then the SPFL committee will need to assess it and vote on it should any of the clubs finish top of the Championship or get in via the play-offs.
Doncaster said: “There is a process by which any synthetic pitch can receive approval from the board, and any club with a synthetic pitch is aware of what that process is.
“Ahead of next season any club who has a synthetic pitch and wants it to be available for use within the Premier League has to go through an application by March 31.
“In principle the laws of the game make no distinction between synthetic and grass, but our rules dictate that any club wishing to use a synthetic surface has to go through an application procedure.
“Fifa 2-star is the standard, but the board can impose certain conditions in terms of how that pitch is looked after. I believe they are all Fifa 2-star.”
Falkirk ‘Godfather’ Alex Smith sees no reason why Falkirk’s pitch would not receive approval and said: “I would say our pitch is by far the best in Scotland at the moment other than maybe the Old Firm who have the facilities to keep their pitches in pristine condition.
“We use it to play and to train. We can set standards on our training by working on our first touch and it develops young players.
“It’s better than grass because you don’t go over on your ankle. The ball doesn’t bounce off awkward spots – it comes true to you. For me, for a footballer it’s ideal.
“It’s a new league organisation and FIFA and UEFA both recognise this surface so I would think that if they approve then our league should too.”
Smith wants Fakirk to win promotion but cane see the upside of being in a division next year with Rangers and Hearts.
He said: “There is no doubt about it; this is the year to get out of the league. If we could hit a run of form then we are definitely capable of getting there.
“But next year Rangers will come into the Championship. It’s looking likely that Hearts will be in it and there is a fair chance that Dunfermline will join.
“So from our point of view we would have six full houses. So it would be a great league to be part of financially. That is the plus.
“However, if you don’t get up this year then it could be two or three years before you get the chance again. We have been down for three years now and we wouldn’t want that.”
In fairness, I don’t think it was a Jack story. He would have had it in a Scottish paper, rather than a Maltese one
Ecobhoy.
I don’t know the exact location of the land deals, however I’m pretty sure GCC remediated the site prior to the land sale, probably!
This does away with lengthy technical arguments over costs to remediate prior to a land sale. i.e. GCC obtain a greenfield value after forking out a substantial amount to remediate, probably millions. For example remediation may be around £40/m3, land fill cost would be an eye watering £90/m3.
GCC by carrying the above out would maximise the land value.
I’m having a guess here tho, just my thoughts.
So two short years ago Ally McCoist stated that he would keep a close eye on the financial side of the club. Now however the finance side of the ‘big hoose’ has nothing to do with him.
He seems to have inherited Walter Smith’s cloak which allows him to avoid any difficult questions!
I listened to Sportsound for ten minutes last night in the car where the pundits response to a Celtic supporter were basically to call him a ‘Rangers hater’ and ‘obsessed’ and also that he would not be content until Ibrox was razed to the ground. Eighteen months ago these same people were telling us that all of our clubs in Scotland would be in danger if RFC were not allowed to start a new club in the SPL. So now that fans of all clubs are taking a keen interest in ‘The Rangers’, obviously because it effects their own, they are called ‘obsessed’. The pundits are correct we are obsessed but only because they told us that our clubs would fail if RFC/’The Rangers’ were not allowed to continue in the top league.
Unfortunately for the journalists it is they that should be obsessed by this story because that is THEIR JOB. It seems to be ‘obsessed’ is the new ‘paranoid’.
I saw a list of questions in an article that should be directed to ‘The Rangers’ chairman or the board. I would like to add two for Ally McCoist;
1. How much dignity does it take offer a player a contract and six months later ask him to take a 15% pay cut?
2. Ally you have been assured by your Chairman that there is no chance of the club/company going into administration. If that is the case why were the players asked to take a pay cut?
I wonder if any of the journalists, who frequently read this site, will have the moral fortitude to ask any of the above questions.
Danish Pastry says:
January 19, 2014 at 7:36 pm
The OF was a poison to Scottish football for many reasons
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It would be foolish of me to deny my club has been happy to get into bed with Rangers in the past for business reasons, but I do believe there is a certain laziness by non Celtic or Rangers people when lumping the two clubs in together for absolutely everything. I am not going to discuss bigotry issues because this is not the forum for it, but I would like to think everyone appreciates Celtic have been, and are, a cleanly run club with a robust board of directors since the days of Fergus McCann. That is the exact opposite of Rangers, but there are other Scottish clubs who have been culpable of malpractices in the past, Dundee and Hearts being prime examples.
So while Celtic have been happy in the past to ensure both they and Rangers got a level of TV/prize money that may have been better spread, it is worth remembering as a club they are very much what Rangers are not in so many areas, and deserve to be discussed as a separate entity.
Good and Encouraging that the MSM are gradually getting on message and chipping away now at the truth !
We all know the story here ….ie that DM blew anything between £200/300m, not of his , but of all of OUR cash trying to emulate CFC leveraging a rancid SFA ,pathetic Scottish media and seriously flawed banking environment
BUT..I fear that the energies of this blog in the last few days have been aimed at Murray and the follow on company players and minor actors like A McC rather than the real criminals .
In any society / walk of life ..Governance Is fundamental ..eg In the old west ..If the Sheriff/ Marshal was corrupt and lets the bad guys do what they like then the society falls apart..the people either stay and get abused at the whim of the abusers or they leave !
The DMs of the world in any society and walk of life will ALWAYS be there ..and as serial abusers will abuse as soon as they can abuse ….Governance must be able to stop this !
(As an aside I suspect he was at it since ’89 post the the Maurice Johnston ‘RFC will cover the tax’
episode …but that will bring out a whole nuclear fake 9 inaro debate which is not for me ..)
To my main point !!!! ..ABUSE of the type that Murray visited upon Scottish football ONLY happened because the Governing authorities were weak and corrupt and just let it happen eg as if they were the drunken sheriff at the bar getting drunk on the bad guys’ money whilst letting those wild men do what they liked
Murray would NEVER have gotten away with it had the SFA been fit for purpose rather than frankly being what looks now like a RFC supporter’s club based in Hampden
Rather than attacking hapless clowns like McCoist Keevins ,Jackson etc.(.and mea culpa..I am as guilty as anyone …) and getting all excited about attending press conferences to embarrass these idiots ..we need the Telegraph,Mail,Scotsman etc..and ourselves ..asking the top 20 questions not of them BUT of CO and his cabal…..That is who has to be the target!
Please lets not lose sight of this ..,as everyone on this blog knows if we get the governance fixed…and the current lot flushed out …honestly everything else will flow from there !
When buliding the new commonwealth village what looked like mountains of lime(white chalk) was put down first, I WALKED PAST EVERY NIGHT, everyone who stayed in the area knew the ground was dodgy. Schools and whole housing schemes were pulled down in the early 80s as they were sinking, the whole place use to be old mines. If i remember right celtic park when getting rebuilt had to reinforce the ground because of the shafts
Tailothebank says:
January 19, 2014 at 8:51 pm
The only entities who can do something about the theatre grotesque at Hampden are the clubs. That means that if/when it all goes pear shaped again, people need to be ready to exert maximum pressure on the clubs.
There will be no change at Hampden, until the clubs get forced into it.
Just as an aside, and sparked by talk of building sites,and pile-driving and such like, I was tremendously impressed on my visit to Glasgow on Thursday past by the sight of a crane atop the two 10-storey lift shafts on the site of the old Odeon!
I asked the works manager ( of the McAlpine Fusiliers) on the site whether the crane had been put together on the top, and was really astounded when he said that it had been hoisted up. They had used a 95-ton crane and a 50 ton crane to get the thing lifted cleanly to the top in one go.
I asked how they managed to get permission to use such heavy machines on city streets.With the greatest of difficulty, was his reply. Because not many feet under one of the streets is the subway line, and under the other is a hugely important sewer running down to the Clyde.
The civil engineers really needed to be sure that both street surfaces could take the weight.And whatever the computer modelling might have said, there was still an anxiety.
Apparently, although it is now quite common for lift shafts to be built first, with the rest of the buildings being built around them, this was the first time that a crane had been sited on top of them.
(Any civils among you to verify this?)
Being absolutely haun’less myself, I am awed by the skills of these civil engineers and builders.
The development is to be Retail shops on the ground floor, office accommodation on the other storeys. And they have to keep the facade of the Odeon.(I didn’t get the name of the developers, though).
Sorry for being OT. To make up for that, let me say I have just emailed the Malta Times (which carries the McGill story) to ask what they know of the Easdale Bros and their connection with a very badly financially run football club .
SSB last night had a nice little reminder that for someone who has no knowledge or interest in the finances of the business why was Sally swanning around with Green meeting potential shareholders at the ‘roadshows’.
Surely he just wasn’t regailing folks with tales from A Question of Sport?
The new kid on the tweet block, putting out lots of dark hints of admin, and squalid deals with Hampden, no evidence yet though.
Fair brightens up a dreich Sunday night
Aquinas says:
January 19, 2014 at 8:10 pm
Ecobhoy.
I don’t know the exact location of the land deals, however I’m pretty sure GCC remediated the site prior to the land sale, probably! This does away with lengthy technical arguments over costs to remediate prior to a land sale. i.e. GCC obtain a greenfield value after forking out a substantial amount to remediate, probably millions. For example remediation may be around £40/m3, land fill cost would be an eye watering £90/m3.
GCC by carrying the above out would maximise the land value. I’m having a guess here tho, just my thoughts.
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I would tend to agree with you in normal circumstances. However you have to remember that we are often talking about building companies who can actually do the remedial work more cheaply than what it would cost the council to employ another contractor with their costs added by the council to the selling price.
Seen quite a few GCC deals – not just with Celtic I hasten to add – where a unit cost per house is agreed to arrive at a open market valuation and then the estimated remedial costs are deducted from that figure. It also means that developments get underway more quickly as the developer can move much faster. There is also that much abnormal ground in the East End that usually things can be agreed without too much hassle.
However in the Westthorn situation the site has not had remedial work carried out on it afaik in recent times. The site since the middle of the 19th century has been in Glasgow Council ownership and when Celtic first became involved in it they leased it with a provision to buy at the end of the lease period which from memory I think was extended.
When it came to the purchase price negotiations agreement couldn’t be reached on the DV valuation over the site ground problems despite prologed negotiations.
So it ended with the council and Celtic having their separate valuations and an independent arbiter was approved by both sides and then appointed and that was how the net price payable withour remedial work being undertaken was reached as far as I am aware.
john clarke says:
January 19, 2014 at 9:44 pm
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If my experience is anything to go by your reply from the Malta Times will be in an envelope and will include a pair of Rosary Beads and a Prayer Card to St.Jude, Patron Saint of hopeless cases!!
No more OT stuff from me sorry 😉
upthehoops says:
It would be foolish of me to deny my club has been happy to get into bed with Rangers in the past for business reasons, but I do believe there is a certain laziness by non Celtic or Rangers people when lumping the two clubs in together for absolutely everything. I am not going to discuss bigotry issues because this is not the forum for it, but I would like to think everyone appreciates Celtic have been, and are, a cleanly run club with a robust board of directors since the days of Fergus McCann. That is the exact opposite of Rangers, but there are other Scottish clubs who have been culpable of malpractices in the past, Dundee and Hearts being prime examples.
So while Celtic have been happy in the past to ensure both they and Rangers got a level of TV/prize money that may have been better spread, it is worth remembering as a club they are very much what Rangers are not in so many areas, and deserve to be discussed as a separate entity.
___________________________________________________________________________
Sometimes Celtic supporters on here when faced with genuine criticism of the actions of their club, no matter how mild or true, respond with the ‘aye but we’re not as bad as Rangers’ argument. As if by reminding everyone on here (not that anyone on here needs reminding) just how rotten Rangers have been in the past somehow excuses or draws attention away from the behavior of Celtic.
The laziness is on your part by thinking that Danish Pastry was lumping the two clubs together for ‘everything’ when he was doing nothing of the sort. That much was quite clear in his post.
scapaflow says:
January 19, 2014 at 9:52 pm
The new kid was going well until he said that RFC had briefed Chris Graham, thought they were only communicating via lawyers these days?
Still a nicely done wind up
The new kid on Twitterland is saying that The Company is going to go into administration in February leaving the club largely unaffected. He also claims that the blazers have been kept fully up to date and are onside with the proposals.
I have little knowledge of exactly how these things work, but I thought the way things are structured is that The company owns the club.
If so how can the company basically go bust leaving the club unaffected. I thought the club owed the company many millions.
Can anyone help explain this to a mere simpleton.
Could all be more crap of course.
Henry Clarson’s piece should be sent to every supporters club in the land.Just for clarification you understand.
paulsatim says:
January 19, 2014 at 6:00 pm
So would I but cannot resist a wee dig at a “journalist”. 🙂 🙂 🙂
Aquinas says:
January 19, 2014 at 8:10 pm
… land fill cost would be an eye watering £90/m3.
——
That’s assuming that the exposed waste could be treated as non-hazardous. Personally, I doubt it could be. Given the history of the site, the only evidence SEPA would accept for that would be documentation covering every single tonne of waste that went in there, showing that each could be classed as non-haz according to EWC codes. At this remove, I think that’s a bit unlikely.
The slightest hint of hazardous waste means the whole site is classed as hazardous – so not a sausage of it could go to landfill at the non-haz landfill tax rate (£72 a tonne, plus gate fees). It would need to be processed. And that wouldn’t be cheap.
As to who pays for such work – well, that very much depends on the contract of sale of the land.
Similar shenanigans currently in the north east – housing estate built on an old landfill which is now gassing like buggery. Much consternation (not least from residents, who weren’t told, and didn’t think to ask what the pipes sticking out of the ground were for …).
Whilst Ally has been on ‘a different road but the same path’ with his fellow travellers in the penny share club, the MSM has been dodging any meaningful questions about Mr Wallace or Mr Nash. Both men are on major pay packets and yet no one appears to understand their role.
Mr Wallace has implied that he asked the players, via Ally, via McCulloch, to take a 15% pay cut, although he knew they’d refuse, he thought he’d ask. Any employer who asked their workforce to take any cut in wages or terns & conditions would hardly be surprised at a negative response. What makes the offer to the first team squad more incredible is that it’s made the day after someone rinses £500 000 in profit from a share deal. The manager, on £824 000, who has yet to agree a pay cut is distancing himself from the whole shebang.
The players are entitled to ask:
Why should we cut our agreed salaries?
What do our agents advise we do?
Why is it only playing staff who are being asked to take a haircut whilst board members are weighed down with six figure salaries PLUS bonus’ based on the team’s performance?
Why are consultancy fees being paid if the club is experiencing such stringent financial straits?
Why did the board approve contracts less than six months ago that it is now trying to drastically alter?
Did the board enter agreements with players that it knew it wouldn’t be able to honour?
Does the board know something no one else knows when it assures Ally that there won’t be an administration event?
Plastic pitches could bar clubs from entering the top flight, says SPFL chief executive Neil Doncaster
19 Jan 2014 08:21
Why was this statement made,and more importantly,who raised the issue? A rat with a bushy tail perhaps.
andygraham.66 says:
January 19, 2014 at 8:34 pm
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http://www.twitter.com/rfc_insider the harbinger of doom
——————————————————————————-
I think that is the biggest load of ……er….. Keith Jackson that I’ve read in my life. It’s been proved that the company is at fault and not the club, so there’ll be no points penalty? Seriously? Then someone from Hearts better get on the blower to the SPFL as the club have been paying their way for a long time, and it was only their parent company being insolvent that saw them placed in administration and docked 15 points.
I’m not sure what the purpose is behind the sudden emergence of this ‘Insider’ – I’m guessing the obvious is to claim that the SPFL have reneged on a deal with The Rangers when they hit the buffers.
billyj1 says:
January 19, 2014 at 10:15 pm
I read that as well that the company could go into admin and there would be no points deduction. If that is the case then there should be a two match day boycott by every supporter of every club in the land. There would be no financial loss to the clubs from existing season ticket holders and it would send a clear message that this blatant corruption of our sport will no longer be tolerated.
At the same time there should be an organised rally at Hampden of supporters of all clubs demanding the removal of ‘the three stooges’.
If this situation is true and the particulars have been discussed between the SFA and ‘The Rangers’ in an attempt to facilitate no penalty for administration then the game is well and truly over. For the SFA to have known that RFC was going to the wall FOUR months before it did the first time and create a climate for it to survive and then go through exactly the same process within two years beggars belief.
justshatered says:
January 19, 2014 at 10:39 pm
It won’t happen. However much the SPFL wish they could do that, they’d leave themselves open to legal action from all directions.
Like I said, this is nonsense. There’s a lot of people on twitter, claiming to know exactly what’s going on. Your first question should be ‘Is what they are claiming credible?’, and your second should be ‘Who stands to gain from what’s being said?’. In fact this criteria should be extended to newspaper articles as well.
I feel quite sad about that latter aspect of it. I grew up in the era of Bob Crampsey and James Sanderson, and trusted those in the media to report the truth, or at least to give opinion that was beholden to no one but themselves. These days, I read a newspaper article and my first reaction is ‘Who stands to gain from this?’, and I don’t like that. I always hope that I’m an optimist, and cynicism doesn’t sit easily with me, so to find that being my first reaction brings home to me what the last couple of years have done to all of us.
Our” new kid on the twitter block” has dissapeared.
Im thinking hes a squirrell to confuse and distract , get us running up a blind alley , get us focussing on the wrong direction.
We need to concentrate. Not get side-tracked.
shooperb : I agree completely. Eye on the ball.Dont be distracted….
jean7brodie says:
January 19, 2014 at 10:03 pm
‘…your reply from the Malta Times will be in an envelope and will include a pair of Rosary Beads and a Prayer Card to St.Jude, Patron Saint of hopeless cases!!’
———-
The Easdale boys might eschew the beads, but may very well clasp St Jude to their bosoms!
( And, wholly irrelevantly, when I think of Malta, I think of the tremendous, miraculous, seamanship effort in getting the ‘Ohio’ and its vital cargo of aviation fuel into Valletta, lashed to two other ships, its decks under water, and under aerial attack.Superb.)
You could not make this up:
A thread on rangersmedia suggesting Neil Patey for FD
http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=264062&st=20#entry1061675223
😆 😆 😆
john clarke says:
January 19, 2014 at 10:58 pm
OT, but one of those strange connections things, The Clan Fergusson which was sunk in the same convoy, was built for the old Clan Line at the Greenock & Grangemouth yard, in wait for it, Greenock
john clarke says:
January 19, 2014 at 10:58 pm
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Must admit that I loved Malta when we went there, although preferred Gozo as it was slightly less touristy and just felt more genuine.
I’m sure you probably know this, but the miracle of the Ohio is commemorated in frescos in several of the churches in Gozo and Malta, due to it arriving on the feast of the assumption of Santa Marija.
Loved Mdina as well – it’s the sort of city that you expect to see Indiana Jones stoatin’ around!
Anyway, seriously OT……
incredibleadamspark says:
January 19, 2014 at 10:10 pm
“Sometimes Celtic supporters on here when faced with genuine criticism of the actions of their club, no matter how mild or true, respond with the ‘aye but we’re not as bad as Rangers’ argument.”
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There is an element of truth in what you say but Celtic’s complicity in the Auld Firm ruse is now doling out a comeuppence for the hoops.
Celtic’s 67 Euro victory provided them with an historical epithet that their main rivals were understandably envious of. When SDM attempted to right this historical wrong he started a footballing arms race that sucked the vibrancy out of nearly every other Scottish Football Club. Celtic had two options; to run the race or give up the chase. They chose the former and bought into the cartel. It could legitimately be argued that this strategy was well founded and given Celtic’s current domination of the football scene its proponents might feel well justified by their decisions. However now, in the absence of Rangers, the flaws in the strategy are showing. This could not have been easily foreseen but its consequences are very real.
I think Lennon is doing a good job in focusing his team on success in an environment where it is virtually a certainty. I understand that attendances at Parkhead are falling although the season ticket allocation is well subscribed. Obviously the absence of a major threat has taken the edge off the competition for Hoops fans but these are not circumstances of their making.
With the pressure of having to suck the lifeblood out of Scottish Football diminishing with the memory of the Auld Firm, there is the prospect of more equitable shares in the footballing and financial rewards being arrived at. This provides an incentive for the non-AF clubs to look forward to a future that is not a photocopy of the past.
So Celtic are paying for their complicity in the AF even though it might be argued that latterly they were faced with an impossible choice. It is in Celtic’s interest to be part of a vibrant and competitive league. It may take some time for this to emerge but it does provide the prospect of an interesting future.
john clarke says:
January 19, 2014 at 9:44 pm
Just as an aside, and sparked by talk of building sites,and pile-driving and such like, I was tremendously impressed on my visit to Glasgow on Thursday past by the sight of a crane atop the two 10-storey lift shafts on the site of the old Odeon!
I asked the works manager ( of the McAlpine Fusiliers) on the site whether the crane had been put together on the top, and was really astounded when he said that it had been hoisted up. They had used a 95-ton crane and a 50 ton crane to get the thing lifted cleanly to the top in one go.
I asked how they managed to get permission to use such heavy machines on city streets.With the greatest of difficulty, was his reply. Because not many feet under one of the streets is the subway line, and under the other is a hugely important sewer running down to the Clyde.
The civil engineers really needed to be sure that both street surfaces could take the weight.And whatever the computer modelling might have said, there was still an anxiety.
Apparently, although it is now quite common for lift shafts to be built first, with the rest of the buildings being built around them, this was the first time that a crane had been sited on top of them.
(Any civils among you to verify this?)
___________________________________________________________________________
Civil, but specialised in water engineering (supply, sewage, dams etc.) although a Civil Engineering uni course is about one third construction (well mine was) .
Lift shafts and stairwells are typically the main structural integrity elements (stiffening) opposing lateral wind forces in a building, so getting the concrete poured or steel raised early for that is desirable. Never seen a crane on top of one, but you often see raised cranes on top of structures (to make optimum use of space onsite as opposed to any major function). Structural engineers may have more light to shed.
scapaflow says:
January 19, 2014 at 11:08 pm
‘…but one of those strange connections things, ..’
——-
Lovely, this association of ideas.
The MV Boissvaine (converted cruise ship) left the Tail o’the Bank in February 1944 taking ‘S’ Company Scots Guards ,and my dad, to Naples. From where, ‘S’ company presently made its way to the town of Cassino.
Rabo Karabekian says:
January 19, 2014 at 11:18 pm
‘.Never seen a crane on top of one,.’
———–
Thank you for that, Rabo. (and you’ve got a blog name that I might give to a character in my novel!)
If you are anywhere near Glasgow, why not go and have a look? It’s kind of surreal, a crane perched 10 storeys up. A bit like seeing the ships hurled up into villages in a typhoon.Totally unexpected!
John
The estate of the late Kurt Vonnegut Jnr, one of my favourite authors, may not be best pleased if you use the name Rabo Karabekian in your novel.
Scapa
Ma old man was sunk on the clan Ferguson …. Sorry O/T …!
Shooperb says:
January 19, 2014 at 11:10 pm
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john clarke says:
January 19, 2014 at 10:58 pm
——————————————————————–
Must admit that I loved Malta when we went there, although preferred Gozo as it was slightly less touristy and just felt more genuine.
I’m sure you probably know this, but the miracle of the Ohio is commemorated in frescos in several of the churches in Gozo and Malta, due to it arriving on the feast of the assumption of Santa Marija.
Loved Mdina as well – it’s the sort of city that you expect to see Indiana Jones stoatin’ around!
Anyway, seriously OT…
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I once saw Pierce Brosnan making an episode of Remington Steele. Does that count?
john clarke says:
January 19, 2014 at 11:21 pm
scapaflow says:
January 19, 2014 at 11:08 pm
‘…but one of those strange connections things, ..’
————————————————————————–
And my dad was captured by the Germans at Anzio. He was a dispatch rider. POW camp thereafter.
Said I wouldn’t go OT again but I’m very proud.
He was a very proud Celtic supporter too and, maybe due to his experiences, was very tolerant of all creeds, allegiances and opinions.
Whilst we await a rely from Paul’s family wrt how they want to donate the money (us doing it direct or sending it to them to donate), we think it would be a good idea to open donations until then.
So if anyone wishes to add to the total (see below), please feel free to do so.
TOTAL NOW £550
I feel that we are near to another stage in this saga.
I noted a very different Ally McCoist at the press conference. No more cheeky chappie, he looked drawn and had a look of dread as every question was put to him. He was never the clearest communicator in my opinion but the number of times he contradicted himself was worthy of Charles Green. With the number of areas that he professed ignorance he must be the least perceptive person to manage a football club in the third tier of Scottish Football. He looked defeated and longing to walk away.
Graham Wallace opted for a soft hitting interview with a friendly media person. He was lobbed some questions that were probably agreed in advance, he gave a stunningly poor performance. Wallace gained some credibility by saying that the cost base was out of proportion to Revenue, he should have then got in there and took a few harsh decisions.
What he did was hire an expensive consultant and put a ‘conceptual discussion” on table. Doesn’t smack of strong management to me. While he was talking to the Manager, that same manager was briefing against the measures in the press and actually backed the players in rejecting the ‘concept’. If he didn’t feel undermined; he should have.
I wouldn’t be surprised to see McCoist leaving soon, before his pay cut is implemented perhaps. Wallace is up against it as the old guard and the fans will never put up with austerity as a plan. He has been half hearted in it so far anyway, perhaps the real powers are not too interested in the medium to long term.
Despite assurances I wouldn’t be surprised to see another administration or even liquidation in the next few months. I think the spivs will have everything stripped out that they can. If they get one more round of season tickets they will cut and run. They probably have a buyer lined up for the property.
Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
January 18, 2014 at 9:24 pm
So, when was there last a genuinely competitive Rangers?
================================
1975–1978, well you asked the question. Jock Wallace team which won the treble back then (twice). Then Wallace resigned, no one knows why to this day. A couple of seasons later Aberdeen won the league to institute the decade of the “new firm”. Interesting guy Wallace who came over superficially as a bit of a Neanderthal but there must have been a shrewd football brain in there for he won these trebles without the help of SDM type millions. For instance Bobby Russell, a fine little midfielder, was signed from the Juniors.
jean7brodie says:
January 19, 2014 at 11:50 pm
“Anzio ans Sangro were just names
We only went tae look for dames
The artful D-Day Dodgers
In sunny Italy”
Hamish Henderson
Puzzled to see Gordon Smith so upbeat and unperturbed by the finances:
http://www.sundaypost.com/sport/columnists/gordon-smith/rangers-wage-bill-is-high-but-not-out-of-hand-1.178608
whisperer says:
January 19, 2014 at 11:34 pm
You got mail
Danish Pastry says:
January 20, 2014 at 12:14 am
Not really DP, if I were a betting man, I put money on Smudger beig the head honcho of the new official supporters pyramid thingy
This is his application for the job?
Edit
Ouch, missed the nasty wee dig at Mr McCoist in the final par, definitely a job application 🙂
coineanachantaighe says:
January 20, 2014 at 12:01 am
……………………………………
It is alleged…he had discussions with the Rangers board about increasing his salary to match that of Mr. Stein’s…Jock Stein was paid 15k pa and Jock Wallace was on 14k pa at that time…Mr Lawrence declined the request…and subsequently Wallace walked.
The latest admin sanction avoidance rumour/squirrel/desperate hope.
I think on seeing the horrendous situation unfold whereby proclaiming club continuity doubles the points deduction, cost cutting kills their playing advantage, OCNC argument complications, and, and……the possibility of having to listen to themselves say they don’t want a penalty 😮 has inspired a bear clutching straw to head for the internet rumour mill, instead of the woods, not that it matters, same end product.
They’ll have to wheel out the civil unrest justification again soon, if that’s the plan 😆 .
Danish Pastry says:
January 20, 2014 at 12:14 am
0 0 Rate This
Puzzled to see Gordon Smith so upbeat and unperturbed by the finances:
http://www.sundaypost.com/sport/columnists/gordon-smith/rangers-wage-bill-is-high-but-not-out-of-hand-1.178608
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Do you remember his cringeworthy performance at the Govan Q&A when he said that no one predicted the administration of Rangers? As I recall from the radio bulletin, there was a collective gasp from the (presumably) wholly Rangers audience.
whisperer says:
January 19, 2014 at 11:34 pm
‘..Ma old man was sunk on the clan Ferguson’
——–
“..2102 hrs Clan Ferguson is hit by an aerial torpedo and blows up with her load of 2000 tons of aviation petrol and 1500 tons of explosives. 96 survivors reach the Tunisian coast where they are interned by the French…’
——–
I’d like to hope that your old man was one of the 96?
Football is keeping Mr McCoist sane, allegedly
http://twitpic.com/dssfs4
coineanachantaighe says:
January 20, 2014 at 12:01 am
Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
January 18, 2014 at 9:24 pm
So, when was there last a genuinely competitive Rangers?
================================
1975–1978, well you asked the question. Jock Wallace team which won the treble back then (twice). Then Wallace resigned, no one knows why to this day. A couple of seasons later Aberdeen won the league to institute the decade of the “new firm”. Interesting guy Wallace who came over superficially as a bit of a Neanderthal but there must have been a shrewd football brain in there for he won these trebles without the help of SDM type millions. For instance Bobby Russell, a fine little midfielder, was signed from the Juniors.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
When I saw Bobby play for Possil YM U16’s I knew he was a player. That was the year they got to the final of the Scottish Cup and were PUMPED by Grangemouth International (5-1 I think)who played sublime football. I believe there was an Ex Celtic player coaching Grangemouth.
I
Goodness me 😯 . things must be REALLY desperate, the truth is appearing in the press!!!!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/rangers/10581698/Rangers-manager-Ally-McCoist-blames-rogue-traders-for-clubs-plight.html
john clarke says:
January 19, 2014 at 10:58 pm
jean7brodie says:
January 19, 2014 at 10:03 pm
( And, wholly irrelevantly, when I think of Malta, I think of the tremendous, miraculous, seamanship effort in getting the ‘Ohio’ and its vital cargo of aviation fuel into Valletta, lashed to two other ships, its decks under water, and under aerial attack.Superb.)
……………………………
Talking of Malta…me and the wife went there about 5 years ago for a weeks holiday in Valetta…lovely place…but the one thing I’ll never forget…we took a walk from our hotel…down some side streets…and as you do due to the heat you end up looking for a bar…but somehow we had wandered into what appeared a very sleepy part of the town…suddenly we heard what sounded like a band…so we followed the sound down a very tight side alley…only to find we had walked straight into a WW11 memorial service…and when I say we walked into it…I mean we were stood there beside 4 lads in full armed forces uniforms holding the relevant armed forces flags…a speaker to the right of us on a podium…and a crowd of about 100 veterens and family in front of us..with a mini camera crew…everything goes quiet as everyone clocks us…I’m in tailored shorts with sandals and a t-shirt stating…point me to the party…my wife who is a 6 foot Italian then blurts out ‘che cazzo è questo’ (WTF is this)…at which point I say in a very loud Glaswegian voice whilst holding my hands up like a presidential candidate…’don’t mind us …carry on’…whilst slowly walking backwards back up the alley…
In years to come…family members are gonna be asking relatives…’who is that on grandads Malta video with raging sunburn on his legs? 😯
scapaflow says: January 20, 2014 at 12:42 am
Football is keeping Mr McCoist sane, allegedly…
===================
Football is keeping Mr.McCoist wealthy, absolutely!
He must be dealing with all sorts of inner turmoil just now, (you would think).
…but when he has walked away / been punted from football he will have time to reflect on his behaviour – and his dog-whistling in particular.
Then he may feel everlasting guilt and shame, (you would hope).
StevieBC says:
January 20, 2014 at 1:00 am
scapaflow says: January 20, 2014 at 12:42 am
Football is keeping Mr McCoist sane, allegedly…
===================
Football is keeping Mr.McCoist wealthy, absolutely!
He must be dealing with all sorts of inner turmoil just now, (you would think).
…but when he has walked away / been punted from football he will have time to reflect on his behaviour – and his dog-whistling in particular.
Then he may feel everlasting guilt and shame – you would hope.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
There will be many who are disappointed by Young Alistair and his pension boosting behavior. Perhaps Malta offers a safe bolt hole.