Reflections on Goalposts

A recent autumn storm caused the destruction of the metal goal fame in our garden. The small goal with the weather-beaten net had fallen into disuse. But I liked it seeing it there on the grass. I suppose I half-expected, half-hoped, it would be used again. Once, it was a father and son thing and had been constructed carefully from a nice set of plans. At the time, it impressed both son and daughter no end. But that was then, this was now.

One of our trees, blown over by the recent high winds, caused the goal frame’s final demise. As I unscrewed the twisted metal I thought of the hours of innocent fun it had given us. It had been the scene of many goals and not a few great saves. My son, who is soon off to uni, smiled thoughtfully as I mentioned that this was the end of the ‘goalposts of childhood’. Perhaps he knew what I meant.

My own childhood goalposts had been ‘doon the back’. Drawn with chalk on the red brick of the ‘sausage wall’ at one end, and on part of the ‘wash hoose’ at the other. Many a league, Cup and international match was played out between those goals on the Dennistoun dirt. We once put on a parallel version of a historic England v Scotland match while the real match was being played at Wembley. Jim Mone sitting on one of the dykes had a transister radio to his ear. As we played our match he chalked up live score updates on the wall — our Twitter and FaceBook anno 1967. What a day.

We did use a pile of jackets up on the old Dennistoun cricket pitch, but only rarely. Mostly, we played on the red gravel surface at the Finlay Drive entrance. That pitch was fitted with real goalposts — like the ones they had at Hampden. Or so we imagined.

These sentimental memories of receding years accompanied my removal of the ruined metal goal frame. But, as you can imagine, it seemed an almost symbolic act. For fans of Scottish football the ‘goalposts’ that once defined the game of our football childhoods — have not only been moved, they’ve been been twisted and mis-shapen out of all recognition.

The past decades have seen a fundamental change in the way our game is run and governed, at home and abroad. Money is now king and sporting consideration is a luxury we sometimes have to put to one side — or at least, so we’re told.

At the risk of stating the obvious, sport, if it is to mean anything at all, has to be based on clearly defined rules and principles. These rules must be applied equally to all the participants, they are certainly not optional extras. However, to misquote and paraphrase George Orwell, ‘all teams are equal, but some teams are more equal than others’ — at least, when it comes to Scottish football.

The efforts by the SFA to re-interpret rules to fit the unfortunate circumstances surrounding the demise of Rangers FC in 2012 have left most of us scratching our heads. Much of the Scottish media has backed up the SFA’s efforts, something which has added to the general confusion and chaos. In fact, it’s become clear that the death of Rangers, as we knew them, has been such a traumatic event that it must be denied. The authorities and media seem to have been so besotted with one club that its loss is out of the question. And so, it’s been gifted a bizarre kind of immunity from liquidation and death that implies its on-going existence, long after it drew it’s final breath.

This situation has opened the door to a legion of businessmen on the make. They have been allowed to perpetuate the myth, with SFA blessing, that they ‘saved’ Rangers. And their unwavering message is, that they can only succeed if fans keep giving them their hard-earned cash. To those outside the blue bubble it looks like a huge con trick. If the only source of real money in football is the fans, then the Ibrox faithful have been royally fleeced.

How different it could have been if the former club had been allowed a dignified end. A year out of the game would probably have allowed fans to restart a newco of their own. They could have applied for entry into the professional leagues along with the other clubs waiting in line. Chances are they would have been given special dispensation, and walked straight into the bottom tier. Of course, they would have claimed to be the continuation of the spirit of the previous entity — but would anyone have argued against that? How different it could have been if the rules governing the game had been respected. The SFA may even have kept their dignity intact and the press not felt obliged to print half-truths, falsehoods and lies.

You’ve got to wonder why Dunfermline and Hearts fought so desperately to avoid liquidation. After all, the Scottish football authorities now seem intent on convincing us that liquidation has little or no effect on a football club. Even past sins, such as wrongly-registered players are as naught — if, at the time, they were thought to have been registered correctly. By this logic, we have to ask: if a ‘company’ running a ‘club’ bribes a referee, will retrospective action will be taken against the ‘club’. The players and the club, after all, will have done nothing wrong. And since the referee was not known to have been bribed, and not struck off, he was qualified to referee the match in question, at the time. Using the SFA thought process, the result would probably be allowed to stand. Personally, I’m not sure I follow SFA logic. They’ve ‘moved the goalposts’, and (you saw it coming) bent them into an unrecognisable shape.

Which brings me back to our garden. The old metal goal frame is waiting to be driven down to the local re-cycling centre. The twisted metal and worn-out net are useless. Ruined by forces beyond our control. There is no interest in a replacement at present. Perhaps, if we have grandchildren, they will show an interest in football. If they do, I’ll build a new set of goalposts. They’ll be straight and true, the way the goalposts of childhood should be. The way goalposts should always be.

4,642 thoughts on “Reflections on Goalposts


  1. scapaflow says:
    January 20, 2014 at 1:08 pm

    I have looked further into the Regional Selective Assistance Grant scheme and agree that there is nothing to see here. I was just speculating to myself how much the success of the deal revolved around the receipt of the grant monies.


  2. No1 Bob says:
    January 20, 2014 at 1:27 pm

    Bob, wouldn’t be surprised if the deal was at least partly contingent on it


  3. ecobhoy says:
    January 20, 2014 at 12:13 pm
    7 0 Rate This

    http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/rangers/wallace-to-hold-rangers-fans-summit-148888n.23215059

    Wallace to meet the Bears – I wonder if he might ask them to consider a hypothetical ST price increase
    _______________________________________________________________________________

    Or a hypothetical plea to the players to accept a free transfer, and, please, never mind about the contracts, let’s just tear them up….


  4. @BrechinCFC: Names are now being taken for what could be our last league game against Rangers at Ibrox a week on Saturday.


  5. Tif Finn says:
    January 20, 2014 at 1:10 pm

    From Gordon Smith
    “Wage cut bid at Ibrox doesn’t mean a Second Coming of administration is on the way. Take Rangers Chief Executive Graham Wallace at his word. There will be no second administration for the club. The Light Blues top man was categorical in his assertion.”
    ===========================================
    I took it that the CEO of the PLC was discussing the situation with that PLC and not it’s loss making subsidiary which operates as a football club in Scotland.
    =========================================================
    If I wanted to addle Gordon Smith’s brain even further I would ask him whether he was speaking of Wallace as chief exec of RIFC or TRFCL as he is on both Boards 😎


  6. scapaflow says:
    January 20, 2014 at 1:33 pm

    Now where have I heard the following phrases before?

    “seriously considering” & “very prominent individuals and companies”


  7. scapaflow says:
    January 20, 2014 at 11:38 am
    ecobhoy says:
    January 20, 2014 at 11:24 am

    You had just had to find the coal mine, we’ll now get “Secret land deal will make Celtic millions from fracking” 😀
    ========================================================
    Well I was pretty sure there would be a mine nearby because having found the clay pit and the brickworks all that was missing was the coal to fire the bricks – a bit of lateral thinking which seems to elude the Bear land ‘experts’ 😆


  8. wottpi says:
    January 20, 2014 at 1:50 pm

    I know, but “Multinational company with stake in Rangers” has much more tabloid cachet than local taxi and bus company.

    At least the BBC went out and got some quotes to hang the story on. Not sure where they got the £35M turnover figure from though.


  9. Gang my tuppenceworth on a sunny Monday afternoon… Some great reading over the past week, I have posted many things on AMcC’s comments I am going to try and desist from that for a while (Not sure how long a while is, probably until AMcC trips himself up with more nonsense, without a word of a lie, in all honesty etc… Jeez there I go again..)

    So anyways ASSUMING there is a real push to cut down on footballing costs (amongst other costs). Players will rarely move out for nothing when they have a year or more on their contracts, old news obviously… But if the current financial plight is as most suspect, it may take a decent player sale to just get some wonga in to aid in moving some other players out… So if Wallace is sold for let’s say a generous £750k, that money may be in the pot to finance others being shifted off the wage bill. No real gain and a few players down inc their superstar fullback.

    I am surprised no interest in Wallace with less than 2 weeks of transfer window trading to go, not even speculation in the rags, more headlines on NFL moving to some small English clubs a subject that probably is dusted down and aired twice a year now..

    Some have suggested the present exploratory discussions and wage trimming refusals by the playing staff backed up by their boss is merely one step in the overall plan. One thing is for sure if drastic cuts are required taking 3 months just to explore areas of discussion might be akin to shuffling chairs on the deck of yon big leaky ship..

    Any team who have entered administration in a season even if a pre-packed route out is agreed in time for the new season should in no way be allowed promotion. Especially if there have been a similar event (or more) recently for the club of the same name, ground, history etc… If this is attempted I hope the SFA are waiting for a backlash that far outsizes the voting the rangers to start again at the very bottom.. No amount of armaggeddon or similar synonymous nonsense will stop the voice of those concerned about Scottish football.


  10. scapaflow says:
    January 20, 2014 at 1:33 pm

    Ok, hands up, I was wrong, there could be something in this McGills Malta bid
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-25809175
    =========================================================
    I can’t for the life of me understand why any company would show their hand publicly at this stage of proceedings.

    Could be that they have been bitten by the media attention bug which in my experience is usually fatal for business aspirations ❗


  11. Has the “2 loners to one club from another” proposal, been rubber stamped? The window is getting nearer to closing, has anyone sussed how this will assist, as it no doubt is the reason for it. I don’t see it yet myself, due to the wages some of the TRFC players are on. But geometry was never my strong point.
    Apologies for the need to be vetted first.


  12. JimBhoy says:
    January 20, 2014 at 2:00 pm

    Gang my tuppenceworth on a sunny Monday afternoon… Some great reading over the past week, I have posted many things on AMcC’s comments I am going to try and desist from that for a while (Not sure how long a while is, probably until AMcC trips himself up with more nonsense, without a word of a lie, in all honesty etc… Jeez there I go again..)
    =============================================================
    Rangers manager Ally McCoist: I fear off-field problems will affect my players… Daily Record 07:36

    I think perhaps McCoist should follow your example and adopt the Omerta Code and maybe his players won’t get confused and upset by his incessant contradictory ramblings 🙄

    BTW that is not to suggest you ever ramble in a contradictory manner Jim 😉


  13. Bryce Curdy says:
    January 20, 2014 at 1:11 pm
    26 1
    Rate This
    Am I the only one starting to feel the same combination of nausea, disgust and fury at the prospect of a club which has deliberately engineered an insolvency event (knowing they can take the points hit) being promoted as I was at the prospect of the same new club being granted immediate admission to the SPL or SFL1? In fact my skin might somehow be crawling even more.

    Is there any precedent in world football for this eventuality? In their discussion the MSM have not had so much as a sniff of anything even slightly untoward, although I suppose I should not be surprised.
    =======================
    Exactly – I have always though the very fact that this situation was even allowed to develop as totally surreal. Surely no club outside the Scottish leagues would have been able to engineer such a scenario without being reined in and made aware of the dire consequences should they continue along this path. It was fairly obvious many months ago what their objectives were and, if I remember correctly it was first mooted on here shortly after the season commenced.

    Did I not hear (may be mistaken) that rule(s) are to be implemented in the near future that will prevent any club going down this road but… as always the rule changes will come into effect only after the team playing out of Ibrox have safely navigated their way into the next tier.

    It seems that it doesn’t bother chairmen/managers of the other 41 clubs though – if the comments of Falkirk’s Alex Smith [See ratethisthenyabampots Neil Doncaster piece January 19, 2014 at 8:07 pm] are anything to go by – he doesn’t seem to have any problem with the fact that the Ibrox club are currently cheating [again] their way into a higher division. In fact he only seems to see the financial benefits to other clubs when they get there. With this sort of attitude, which I assume is pretty much the same throughout the division, us bampots are on a hiding to nothing. If we are expecting the other 41 clubs to do anything about the nefarious working practices of the Ibrox club we could well have a long wait.


  14. Greenock Jack says: January 20, 2014 at 12:43 pm
    TU: Football
    TD: Politics

    Politics of football?
    Football financials?

    If you gave me an option I’d probably go for “Integrity of (Scottish) football”.


  15. JB
    Have since edited poll at 12:43pm to

    TU: Football
    TD: Politics/Finances (football related)

    So far it is just over 4 to 1 (41TD to 9TU) that dedicate more time to matters political/financial than traditional football.

    ps. if you want to vote please go to the post at 12:43 rather than do so on this post.


  16. Sky Sports News ‏@SkySportsNews 56m
    Coming up on #ssn football finance expert Ken Pattullo joins us to discuss the ongoing financial situation at Rangers
    ===========
    Saw this on twitter. Has Neil Patey got flu?


  17. Greenock Jack says:
    January 20, 2014 at 12:52 pm
    7 2 Rate This

    … For most Rangers supporters it’s pointless discrediting a man with no credit but it may have comedy value.
    For the general audience, Spiers is an empty vessel who is more interested and comfortable in broadcasting confrontational and plagerised soundbites than doing any real journalism.
    ———–

    The Hearts’ assistant manager suggested a week or so ago that GS stick to his golf show, which was probably sound advice, for many reasons.

    GS seems a very conflicted individual who spends much of his time sitting on the fence, sometimes looking one way, then at other times, in the opposite direction.

    To his credit, he has made some bold statements of late. One of the few. Truth is, he does come in for dog’s abuse from both sides, if his twitter timeline is anything to go by. He would have done himself a favour, though, by siding with the facts he knows to be true, from the very beginning.

    Of course, we don’t know what intimidation he may have faced. That sort of thing can lead the boldest to keep their head down. I’ve noticed he and Stuart Cosgrove are becoming a fine double act. If I’m not mistaken I think Stuart’s influence is having a positive effect.


  18. From now on I’d like to be referred to as “M.c.f.c. Football financial expert” because I feel I’m at least on a par with level of knowledge exhibited by Ken Pattullo in this Sky Sports article.

    http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11095/9125587/spfl-financial-expert-claims-rangers-administration-unlikely

    “So eventually by the time it gets to the end of the season Rangers will effectively have run out of money and will have to look around at other sources of income.
    “That money could come from existing shareholders, banks may step in and give them an overdraft or a loan, and I’m sure these are avenues I have no doubt chief executive Graham Wallace will be looking at very seriously.”

    What Ken fails to elaborate on is the likely terms that such cash injections would carry. Or to put it another way – why would a bank extend credit now, when they have been unwilling to do so for the past 20 months.

    Or to put it in terms the non-expert might understand. If you (as a bank or shareholder) were lending Rangers 3-4 million quid for six months – what guarantees would you require and what interest would you charge – in case – just in case – they were not in control of their own finances in say two months time ?

    EDIT: Oh btw Ken, Ally hasn’t taken that 50% pay cut yet – do keep up old chap.


  19. DP
    Currently Speirs is not much more than a media whore who can read and put a few words together on radio. He doesn’t add any material value.

    Cosgove on the other hand will tend to go over the old ground and add materially to the debate even if you aren’t in agreement with everything he may have to say.


  20. GJ

    Though i’d put your thoughts re- Spiers to the test

    RM no posts that I could see about the Spiers twiitter row

    FF 102 posts, which is about 1/3 of the posts for the Jackson hotel story.

    maybe something to do with the FF/RM split?


  21. If ally decides to ‘walk away’ or gets a hefty dunt in that direction he could always get work with the media 😉 no training required 😀 on a serious note, I truly believe that there is not one living soul on this earth who knows the ‘truth’ about what really happened down ibrokes way :mrgreen:


  22. Can anyone tell me what Ally McCoists stance is

    he says he wouldn’t want to contribute to the hardship of the club by having an excessive squad
    the CEO has told him it needs to be trimmed
    the players are refusing to take the cut and Ally backs them

    So, what is his stance – does he agree with his boss that the costs need to be cut, or is he refusing to accept cuts

    and could the reason behind his refusal to have signed off on that paycut is because he expects the sack for not carrying out the budget cuts requested from his boss?

    by backing the players, is ally now ACTIVELY and KNOWINGLY contributing to the demise of the club?


  23. Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
    January 20, 2014 at 3:15 pm

    Mr McCoist’s priorities seem to be

    1. Protect his earnings

    2. Protect his legend status

    everything else comes a distant 99th


  24. If, as Ken Pattulo stated on Sky today

    “So eventually by the time it gets to the end of the season Rangers will effectively have run out of money and will have to look around at other sources of income.”

    At what point do they become guilty of trading whilst insolvent?

    Can they actually sell season tickets if they have not got the finance raised/promised to get them through next season?

    If the cash is going to run out in April – and it is only the following years ST sales that will keep them going from May-August/Sept time (based on spending £2.5M a month and £10M ST income) can they actually sell those tickets knowing those fixtures might not be played?

    Also, don’t they have to provide financial info by the end of April to confirm the SPFL license for next season – if that investment is not actually received by then and there is no cuts, can the SPFL grant them a license for next year based on the fact they will go into admin and have no guarantees in place to complete the season?


  25. Not The Huddle Malcontent says:

    At what point do they become guilty of trading whilst insolvent?

    I’m not sure which is actually registered as the “club” (let’s just leave it there) with the appropriate bodies but I imagine the parent-child company set-up will allow for the subsidiary to make losses as it’s the parent company that is floated and issued shares?


  26. A business which lost £14m on turnover of £19m and which has failed to take any meaningful action to cut costs, and as such continues to lose over £1m a month is not going to get credit, unless it is on the miost onerous of terms and with fixed security on real assets.

    In other thoughts, which entity is actually going to seek that borrowing, will it be the PLC (in which case what assets does it have) or the Ltd Co, in which case it creates a new creditor.

    Loans from existing shareholders in the PLC seem the only viable option, but as stated the terms are likely to be crippling, or it may even be the sought after payment in shares.

    No matter how charitably one tries to paint it the whole thing is a shambles and is as bad as when Whyte placed them into liquidation. Though they may not have the same issues with HMRC.


  27. Futbol

    it is TRFC Ltd that has the SFA/SPFL memberships/licenses – as RIFC PLC didn’t exist until 13 months ago.

    TRFC ltd is making the losses, spending the money etc, so they need to provide the financial guarantees

    remember, hearts were put into Admin and the FOOTBALL club docked the points because it’s major shareholders/bank went into Admin. So, either way, if the club or holding company aren’t up to scratch financially, it affects the club – and the SFA/SPFL should be concerned about it’s health.


  28. Some interesting comment in the press and it looks like the Wallace camp have briefed against the previous incumbents and even fired a warning shot at McCoist, or is it just a ‘conceptual discussion’ point

    The stuff that is being reported has been known for a long time but is only now being reported critically, who stands to benefit from having clean hands by virtue of just being in the door and apparently trying to clean up the mess.

    If my reading of the situation is correct then we could see a lot of revelations coming soon. There seems to be stalemate as the spivs hold the ownership and Corporate power (as evidenced by AGM votes) and crucially the assets. The old guard have control of the main revenue stream, the fans.

    Of course the Civil war is being fought over a Clumpany that has a massive funding problem, it needs firm management and a sensible business model and, at this stage, even doing all the right things may not be enough. If they have been allowed credit the debts will be getting called in, no one is going to invest serious money to see it removed by spiv means or squandered by Ally on players from the top division who expensively under-perform in the third division.

    On the sidelines are the only ones providing their cash, the fans. In terms of numbers Rangers have an enviable fan base however they are high maintenance. The fans demand success, the level of success they demand costs upwards of £10M more than they contribute.

    While it is run by the Spivs it will probably limp from one insolvency to another until it is not worth the bother. The Spivs won’t go unless they are paid off, nobody has been prepared to buy them out so far.

    Should anyone want to buy out the Spivs they are still left with a Clumpany that needs huge initial investment millions poured in and each and every year.

    Still interesting times to come but I think this week could be significant one.


  29. On the subject of nausea, disgust and fury, I’m finding the whole Ibrox, Superally, MSM, Sevco followers “we didna ken” routine extremely patronising personally and insulting to the many (almost all I would guess) companies and organisations who have had to effect cut backs when necessary.
    Laying it on a bit I’m particularly angry today having visited the wee Social Enterprise on who’s board I have the pleasure to sit. The social dimension this particular company has is employment and training to a small group of people with head injuries, mental health problems, learning difficulties, autism etc. The theme this last few months has been cutbacks in the grants and support from government at all levels. The result is of course cut backs on the services and opportunities they provide, fair do’s we get the fiscal measures we vote for. The good people on the shop floor fully understand the principle of reduced income leading to reduced spending, they don’t like it but they understand it. If any of the spivs or management at Ibrox need it explained to them they are welcome to come and discuss. They have known all about the financial realities at Ibrox since administration if not several months before. Everything else is just lies.
    Rant over.


  30. Tif Finn says:

    A business which lost £14m on turnover of £19m and which has failed to take any meaningful action to cut costs, and as such continues to lose over £1m a month is not going to get credit, unless it is on the miost onerous of terms and with fixed security on real assets.

    In other thoughts, which entity is actually going to seek that borrowing, will it be the PLC (in which case what assets does it have) or the Ltd Co, in which case it creates a new creditor.

    Is this then not the perfect rationale for the transfer of assets, allowing borrowing to take place against them?


  31. In conversation with a lady this morning she uttered the words,

    ” I’m a season ticket holder at Ibrox”

    I said that is one way to put it because you never know what type of entertainment you could be watching there or what team will be playing there. I said we have Prentedygers version 1 and who knows it could be version 2 shortly that will be the entertainment at Ibrox. 😀


  32. Good Afternoon.
    A business losing that amount of money will not get finance even with security over the assets unless they go to the Masterton and Murray school of finance.
    it is only my opinion but I have repeatedly suggested that CW still has a claim over the assets. If his claim is genuine then no one would lend and perhaps that is the reason that they have not been or are incapable of being pledged as security.
    Come on CW show your hand
    We need a strong Forfar


  33. futbol says:
    January 20, 2014 at 3:32 pm

    Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
    =================================================
    At what point do they become guilty of trading whilst insolvent?
    ===================================================
    I’m not sure which is actually registered as the “club” (let’s just leave it there) with the appropriate bodies but I imagine the parent-child company set-up will allow for the subsidiary to make losses as it’s the parent company that is floated and issued shares?
    ===================================================
    I think we should never lose sight of the fact that the only income afaik that RIFC Plc has ever had is the cash from the IPO. Everything else goes through TRFCL eg STs, walk-up money, catering, car parking and the like.

    Merchandise cash now goes through Rangers Retail the joint-venture with Ashley. It’s possible that STs on credit might go into another subsidiary and probably the media & TV does as well – it did in the old days. Advertising and sponsorship is another one where I can see cash being diverted. Although all these companies are – in the first instance I’m sure – subsidiaries of TRFCL.

    I’m not suggesting anything illegal btw. But it might well be the case that RIFC doesn’t have any money left other than what is transferred to it from TRFCL and we know that won’t be a lot. So can the accountancy/insolvency ones say how that would affect things.


  34. briggsbhoy says:
    January 20, 2014 at 4:00 pm

    Did she hit you with her handbag????


  35. Scapa
    Though i’d put your thoughts re- Spiers to the test
    RM no posts that I could see about the Spiers twiitter row
    FF 102 posts, which is about 1/3 of the posts for the Jackson hotel story.
    maybe something to do with the FF/RM split?
    —————————————————————-
    The author of the article isn’t on the RM Xmas card list and this may be a part of the reason.


  36. Greenock Jack says:
    January 20, 2014 at 4:20 pm

    That’s what I thought 😀

    Teasing aside, the more splits that Judean Popular Front nature of the support, has been one of the fundamental reasons behind the seemingly endless procession of bums, stiffs and wasters has been able to wreak havoc


  37. Brenda
    Did she hit you with her handbag????
    ————————–
    I’m sure you have a heavier one.


  38. Greenock Jack says: January 20, 2014 at 2:20 pm
    TU: Football TD: Politics/Finances (football related)
    So far it is just over 4 to 1 (41TD to 9TU) that dedicate more time to matters political/financial than traditional football. ps. if you want to vote please go to the post at 12:43 rather than do so on this post.

    I believe I’ve already answered, but I want to state clearly that I’m on Celtic fan & news sites and participate on more “football related sites”, which TSFM has poiinted out, ain’t here. That I don’t post as much on them is more down to differences of opinion with our own “anti-board” wing (ironic that ours is better developed than NewGers’ given the difference in performance).

    Do not for one moment think this bizarre mess/omnishambles/soap opera has diminshed my love and interest in my club or the game, rather that to fix Scottish football we first need to fix the integrity issue.

    If I didn’t know better I might think your poll is something some of the more “obsessed” amongst the “anti-The Rangers Obsessive Haters” brigade might take as validation of that stance. But they are clearly loons who would do anything to attract attention from their own (self-inflicted) woes.

    Cheers.


  39. Scapa
    In difficult times it is not unusual to have splits of opinion.
    These have been nutured, played on and further developed by interested parties.


  40. Greenock Jack says:
    January 20, 2014 at 10:03 am
    ………………………
    That and principles GJ….he wanted what he thought was fair…they said no….thinking he would just accept it…so he voted with his feet!…no second offers no second chance….gone!

    From memory at the time…it was out of the blue and as quick as you like…but then Jock Wallace always gave you that impression…no nonsense straight to the point type of a guy.


  41. Greenock Jack says:
    January 20, 2014 at 11:10 am

    How do posters see the last 10 days of the transfer window going at Ibrox?
    ______________________________________________________________

    I’d be amazed if ‘The Rangers’ manage to shift even one player off the books, and certainly not any of the ones on more than £5,000 per week.

    The suggestion that the players not taking a wage reduction will be resolved by unloading players is nothing more than bluster and wishful thinking.

    I suggest after the January transfer window closes there will still be a squad of 55 players at Ibrox.


  42. Paulmac
    Yes, by the time the media had got wind he’d gone.
    Jock Wallace was hard, fair and straightforward in the now old fashioned way.


  43. The sort of help McCoist has provided to the Rangers’ support is seeing reality and understanding what is going on.

    http://www.theguardian.com/football/2011/oct/22/rangers-craig-whyte-administration

    Ally McCoist has expressed his support for the Rangers owner, Craig Whyte, at the end of a turbulent week for the Scottish champions.

    Whyte has opened legal proceedings against the BBC in response to a documentary, aired on Thursday night, which made allegations about his business background. Earlier in the week, two Rangers directors resigned, and a picture was painted in Edinburgh’s court of session of the latest fears for the club’s financial outlook.

    “He’s been great, absolutely smashing,” said McCoist, the Rangers manager, of Whyte. “I spoke to the owner this morning as I always do and we had a good chat. We’ve got a good working relationship.”

    http://www.football.co.uk/rangers/mccoist_hails_green_rss3273914.shtml

    McCoist added: “They stood tall and bought the club so in that respect they deserve great support from us and from the fans. I’ve watched Charles and I don’t have any doubt he’s watched me in recent weeks. He has absolutely nailed his colours to the mast in terms of his work ethic and the hours he has put it.

    “He has done his best for Rangers and fought for the club and represented the club to the best of his ability.”

    McCoist also revealed his working relationship with Green continues to develop as they both stride to take the club back through the leagues in the coming years.

    He said: “I am a firm believer that the most important relationship at a club is between manager and Chief Executive. We are in the very early days of ours but it is growing day by day and we each have a good appreciation of the other’s situation within the club. We are certainly both of the view that we want to take the club forward.”

    ========================================

    He really has sold the support down the river in his short time in charge.


  44. Greenock Jack says:
    January 20, 2014 at 4:27 pm
    —————————————————————–

    My name is Jean….


  45. Ally’s stance at the moment just helps the cheeky chappie to be liked by the fans. This hides the underhand way he rips the club off. He has taken no salary cut at present (no matter what SMSM print) as he knows that he is the only real rangers men tie with the fans. As a manager he has failed in all cup competitions (CL failures helped hasten the demise of Rangers). His stance is a sackable offence by the board and will not happen just now for if they got rid of ally ST would not sell and ally knows this (even tho support is divided). Would the board like to sack on the evidence of his managerial skills, IMO yes in a heartbeat. But spivs are spivs they will use any means to rip off the fans (which financial astute ally knows) and st have to be sold. The spivs may come up with a better angle to sell ST and sack ally but what? Ally IMO has a superego (maybe inherited from DM along with the shinny brogues) and wants to stay well paid but be loved by the fans and SMSM and it’s pundits. Sacking him would also fulfill this aim (poor me kind of plea). Cheeky chappie (aye cheeky rich rip off the club but needs to be loved kind of chappie)
    I cannot see how any players will leave sevco as the money is so easy and no other club will pay these players anywhere near the salaries they are getting now. Players will have to go somehow, really looking forward to next few days.

    55 and counting (sevco players that is)


  46. Greenock Jack says:
    January 20, 2014 at 4:31 pm

    GJ, absolutely, and I’m not having ago, but, in the cases of Hearts and Celtic (and others) in similar circumstances, the supports were able to coalesce around the need to save the club.

    For, whatever, reason(s), the Rangers support has become even more disunited, why that has been the case, is a real puzzle. It appears to fly in the face of human nature


  47. JB @ 4:29
    Do not for one moment think this bizarre mess/omnishambles/soap opera has diminshed my love and interest in my club or the game, rather that to fix Scottish football we first need to fix the integrity issue.

    If I didn’t know better I might think your poll is something some of the more “obsessed” amongst the “anti-The Rangers Obsessive Haters” brigade might take as validation of that stance. But they are clearly loons who would do anything to attract attention from their own (self-inflicted) woes.
    —————————————————————————————————————–
    If I was a paranoaid obsessive I might think your reference to “loons” has some coded message about tonight’s league fixture at Forfar. 😯


  48. Greenock Jack says:
    January 20, 2014 at 11:00 am
    AJ
    Aye it was my fault. Us Bears get blamed for everything, even posts we don’t make LOL
    ……………………….
    Yep…I blame the bears for the flooding here in Surrey…climate change…the JFK assassination…the Eurovision song contest failures…Charles Green’s big hauns….global warming….Graham Spiers….Flairs…Ear ache….tooth ache….my neighbours bawheid…my dug’s flatulence….burnt toast….world hunger….the flu…no winning the Euro lottery….newspapers….biting my tongue while eating….bad haircuts….expensive holidays….thrush….a bad pint….ugly people….annoying people…cauliflower cheese….raisins….a burst tyre…..celery (seriously who eats that sh&t?)

    The list is endless GJ 😆


  49. Scapa@ 5:09
    I refer you to the second line of the post at 4:31pm


  50. jean7brodie says:
    January 20, 2014 at 4:45 pm
    —————————————————————–
    My name is Jean….
    ________________________

    Is that a question or a surprised statement? 😆 😆


  51. Greenock Jack says:
    January 20, 2014 at 5:20 pm

    GJ, true, they have been very successful at playing the fans off against each other, but, that still leaves me with why the fans weren’t able to concentrate on the primary issue, ’tis a puzzle


  52. Paulmac2 on January 20, 2014 at 5:18 pm
    1 0 Rate This
    ———-

    …. and what about those pits in the East End? Is it not logical to assume they are actually disused bear pits?

    I’ll get my Sugar Puffs.

    😀


  53. Paulmac2 says:
    January 20, 2014 at 5:22 pm
    ————————————————

    Dunno! Keep getting confused with all my ‘noms de plume’ 😉


  54. Scapa @ 5:27
    A full answer to the broad subject you touch upon is in itself worthy of a short book and would lead to comparisons that effect us all in a much wider societal ambit. I’ll spare you the detail and leave it with my post @ 4:31.


  55. Greenock Jack says:
    January 20, 2014 at 5:43 pm

    Probably! Add it to the list of Doctoral Thesis’

    Mel


  56. While walking past an open plan Corals Bookmakers in London’s Canary Wharf I noticed the screens advertising football odds.

    Forfar Athletic are playing an entity called FC Rangers.

    The bookies are always first to know!


  57. Den at 3:49:
    “In terms of numbers Rangers have an enviable fan base however they are high maintenance. The fans demand success, the level of success they demand costs upwards of £10M more than they contribute.”

    My goodness, that was hitting the nail on the head.


  58. Article by Stuart Waiton

    Law must focus on actions, not words

    The shift to the offence principle is criminalising both words and people to all our detriment, writes Stuart Waiton

    THE philosopher Joel Feinberg has argued that, in cases of law, “we have moved from the harm principle to the offence principle”. What he means is that increasingly society and the law is less interested in actual physical or economic harm and more interested in policing things that are defined as being offensive. One outcome of this is that actual violence is being treated less seriously than words and the notion that sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never harm me is being turned on its head.

    Just this month we had a clear illustration of this in the cases of Paul McGowan and Michael Convery. St Mirren player McGowan was found guilty of assaulting police officers, repeatedly kicking one of them, and yet despite having a previous conviction for police assault received only 130 hours of unpaid work as a punishment. Michael Convery on the other hand sent threatening racist Twitter messages to two black Rangers players and received a six-month prison sentence.

    This is not an isolated example of words being treated more seriously than actual violence. For example, David Goodwillie, while playing for Blackburn Rovers, was charged with the assault of a man who he “repeatedly punched on the head and body and kicked”. He was sentenced to 80 hours of unpaid work, while David Limond, on the other hand, has just been sentenced to six months in prison for making sectarian threats to a journalist. The list goes on.

    I first noticed this trend to not only elevate the harm done by words but also to downgrade the issue of violence while watching the Panorama programme entitled Stadiums of Hate, which wrongly portrayed the coming Polish and Ukrainian European football tournament as a racist bloodbath in waiting. In this hysterical portrayal of racist and fascist Ukrainians and Poles, images of fascist saluting fans were interspersed with shots of a group of Asian men being kicked to bits by a group of skinhead thugs at a football match. What shocked me was that in the voiceover of these events there appeared to be not only no separation of the two things, one a gesture, the other actual serious (and I thought horrifying) violence, but the fact that far more seemed to be made of the singing and gesturing than the actual beatings themselves.

    This programme was illustrative of a number of trends that help to explain the increased policing of words. Firstly, there is the overblown fear of the racist (or sectarian) mob by our politically correct elite, a fear that has led to football (where the “mob” can be found) being a focal point for never-ending awareness campaigns, new laws, surveillance and so on. The control of language around football has been elevated into a largely unquestioned principle and words themselves have been increasingly criminalised. Secondly, there is the elitist elevation of certain “right thinking” and “tolerant” issues into moral absolutes, around which politicians queue up to illustrate their worth as people who “oppose racism and sectarianism in all its forms”, leading to the demand that something must be done – that something being an ever-increasing array of laws to police incorrect words.

    But it is not only at football or with issue of racism that this policing of language can be seen. There are a variety of “offence” cases, usually related to Facebook or Twitter, that incorporate a whole range of offences, for example the Tom Daley Twitter case.

    Society itself has shifted the goalposts in the last few decades and increasingly treats adults as vulnerable subjects who need protection. Radicals of the 1980s have helped this process by giving up on campaigns for social equality and shifting their attention to the need to police incorrect words – the campaign against institutional racism, for example, has shifted to the terrain of newly defined “hate crimes”. They also helped to construct the idea that certain groups in society were vulnerable groups and as such were more easily harmed and needed added protection.

    While there remains a caricatured hierarchy of the vulnerable, the genie is now out of the bottle and we can all define ourselves as being offended, abused, traumatised or harassed by certain words. And the newly emerged therapeutic state can step in and find a new role for itself, both to define us as being offended and to protect us from insults.

    Recently I noticed a poster that read: “We will not tolerate violence in any form including the use of foul language, verbal abuse and aggression.” I was reminded of the philosopher Slavoj Žižek’s profound statement: “What increasingly appears as the central human right of late-capitalist society is the right not to be harassed, which is a right to be kept at a safe distance from others”.

    For Žižek, in our fragmented world with few clear unifying beliefs or morals, the role of the state has become a problematic one, whereby our isolated insecurity is institutionalised, and they assist us by protecting us in our fragile hamster ball worlds. We are all vulnerable now, the state and law tell us, easily offended and undermined by insults, bogus threats or politically incorrect language, and must be protected.

    Tragically, this all runs the risk of undermining the moral legitimacy of the law, filling prisons with non-criminals, educating vulnerable groups (indeed all of us) to be increasingly offended, and creating a climate within which the new generation of adults is encouraged to be the most thin-skinned of chronically offended caricatures.

    http://www.scotsman.com/news/comment-law-must-focus-on-actions-not-words-1-3271525


  59. Three Forfar players have had to take an unpaid, half-day off, says Dick Campbell on Sportsound.

    By the time they get to the ground they’ll be shouting, “Where Are The Pies?” (WATP)


  60. Paulmac2 says:
    January 20, 2014 at 5:18 pm

    7

    0

    Rate This

    Greenock Jack says:
    January 20, 2014 at 11:00 am
    AJ
    Aye it was my fault. Us Bears get blamed for everything, even posts we don’t make LOL
    ……………………….
    Yep…I blame the bears for the flooding here in Surrey…climate change…the JFK assassination…the Eurovision song contest failures…Charles Green’s big hauns….global warming….Graham Spiers….Flairs…Ear ache….tooth ache….my neighbours bawheid…my dug’s flatulence….burnt toast….world hunger….the flu…no winning the Euro lottery….newspapers….biting my tongue while eating….bad haircuts….expensive holidays….thrush….a bad pint….ugly people….annoying people…cauliflower cheese….raisins….a burst tyre…..celery (seriously who eats that sh&t?)

    The list is endless GJ 😆

    _____________________________________________

    Graham Spiers?
    You’ve taken that too far now!
    Bears are totally blameless on that score: An accident waiting happen, they were in the wrong place at the wrong time, could have happened to anyone. 🙂


  61. 400 Million Miles Off Topic but just have to comment on the sheer brilliance of this Rosetta Mission.
    I am in utter awe of this sort of stuff.

    Back to Earth now and apologies for having to go 2 miles off topic to pick up Troutlette The Younger from the train station.


  62. Eco
    sorry for the very late reply to your post on Saturday regards my questioning of a new posters input
    (Sorry can’t recall the posters name ) ,that was not my intention
    I said I was a cynic and that is what I am ,I have followed this omnishambles for too long now to be anything other than cynical ,not of the poster concerned but of the possibility of anyone investigating this shambles to actually see any wrong doing followed through to what many would expect to be the obvious conclusion regards Ragers1872 .
    I have no business background and know next to nothing of the mechanics of law ,insolvency procedures or much else and always look forward to reading posts from people who have a good knowledge of these things
    You ask me to point to evidence of BDO not being on the ball ,I cannot (see above ) .
    The point I made regards the post about BDO is ,here is another body that is going to get to the bottom of this charade ,will they ,you and the poster concerned seem to believe they will .I though do not .
    As I have admitted knowing nothing of how the BDO investigation works ,if you have previous experience in this field could I ask what you may expect the final outcome to be .
    Not an easy question I’m sure ,when you look at the Admin ,the players registration inquiry ,the long Admin delay (holidays) ,the SFA attempts to place a new club into the top tier of our game .etc .
    Just because I know nothing about the points at the top of my posts ,it does not mean I am wrong .
    No offence was meant to the poster concerned and as you both know Mr Cohen’s field of expertise maybe this could be the first time someone gets to the bottom of the whole affair


  63. Caught ten minutes of Radio Clyde earlier. A caller came on with a theory that Lee Wallace will be moving directly from Rangers to Celtic. The panel (almost certainly rightly) shot it down in flames, but added ‘unless Celtic are willing to pay £5M’. I know the point they were making, but the valuation of Lee Wallace has been something that really does deserve some serious debate. At Hearts he was a successful player, a regular in the SPL, and had gained international caps. Rangers got him for around £800K. Given that since he has dropped to lower leagues, and is no better a player than he was at Hearts, why on earth does anyone think Rangers would get much more than they paid for him, if at all?


  64. Greenock jack @ 4.27pm

    I am Brenda, Jean made that comment 😉 you appear to be as confused as ally 😉


  65. Greenock Jack says:
    January 20, 2014 at 6:35 pm

    GJ, Stuart Waiton brings an interesting perspective to the debate. Free speech was never meant to be a free for all, hence the laws on defamation and slander for example.

    On the football act I started from the premise that the existing laws were adequate, if they were properly enforced, despite Christine Graham’s best efforts, I remain of that view. All governments are guilty of throwing new legislations at problems, because its easier than actually dealing with the root causes.

    Minorities have to be protected, and as a lifelong holder of minority views I am very grateful for that, but, striking the right balance is a very difficult act to pull off. The state has not responded well to the social media revolution, but, if you had shouted P*&i B£$%T*&d in the street 20 years you’d be liable for arrest, I see no reason why the penalty shouldn’t apply for saying it online.

    Societies are not pickled in aspic, they evolve, 100 years ago it was acceptable for women to be denied the vote, since then we have had a woman PM. 50 years ago homophobia was enshrined in law now we will soon have gay marriages. Some sections of society will always be out of step, but, the law needs to reflect the broader societal view, while protecting the rights of minorities as far as is possible.


  66. Greenock Jack says:
    January 20, 2014 at 6:35 pm
    ————————————————————-
    Stuart Waiton is very, very wrong in his suggestion that:

    ‘Law must focus on actions, not words’

    He obviously does not remember the chain of events in Nazi Germany.

    Before the Holocaust we had the Ghettos, before the Ghettos we had Kristallnacht and before Kristallnacht we had the name calling and marginalistion.

    ‘Genocide doesn’t begin with violence – it indeed begins with words.’
    Dr Tim Soutphommasane
    Race Discrimination Commissioner
    at The Great Synagogue, Sydney

    Perhaps we are seeing punishments which stem the hatred and poison before it translates into physical violence.


  67. upthehoops says:
    January 20, 2014 at 7:05 pm
    3 0 Rate This

    Caught ten minutes of Radio Clyde earlier. A caller came on with a theory that Lee Wallace will be moving directly from Rangers to Celtic. The panel (almost certainly rightly) shot it down in flames, but added ‘unless Celtic are willing to pay £5M’. I know the point they were making, but the valuation of Lee Wallace has been something that really does deserve some serious debate. At Hearts he was a successful player, a regular in the SPL, and had gained international caps. Rangers got him for around £800K. Given that since he has dropped to lower leagues, and is no better a player than he was at Hearts, why on earth does anyone think Rangers would get much more than they paid for him, if at all?

    If they can’t sell wallace by the end of the transfer window I reckon big peter lawell could get Wallace for a pie a paper clip a bic pen and about 100k lol


  68. Paulmac2 says:
    January 20, 2014 at 5:18 pm

    You left out Brussel Sprouts. Damn things are only seen in the shops in November and December.
    All they do is spoil a good meal and, four hours after consumption, all the air in the room.
    Jeez this is turning into Room 101.


  69. upthehoops says:

    January 20, 2014 at 7:05 pm

    Thoroughly get where you’re coming from, uth, but must correct you on your transfer fee figure paid to Hearts from Rangers/TRFC. The fee was agreed at £1.5m, though somewhat less was eventually forthcoming, but officially they valued him at that figure. He’s hardly been stretched over the past year and a half, and logic would suggest this would count against a similar fee, as well as the fact it will be fire sale negotiations; but as we know, strange things happen in football these days 🙄


  70. I reckon they would sell him for less than 1 mill after all it’s not just the transfer fee gained but also money off the wage bill?


  71. Allyjambo says:
    January 20, 2014 at 7:32 pm
    ========================
    More than willing to defer to your better knowledge of Jambo things re the initial Wallace fee. Any idea what they finally paid for him? Going back to what they would get now – £1M perhaps? Certainly not the £3-4M from the Derek Johnstone school of player valuations.

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