Reflections on Goalposts

ByDanish Pastry

Reflections on Goalposts

A recent autumn storm caused the destruction of the metal goal fame in our garden. The small goal with the weather-beaten net had fallen into disuse. But I liked it seeing it there on the grass. I suppose I half-expected, half-hoped, it would be used again. Once, it was a father and son thing and had been constructed carefully from a nice set of plans. At the time, it impressed both son and daughter no end. But that was then, this was now.

One of our trees, blown over by the recent high winds, caused the goal frame’s final demise. As I unscrewed the twisted metal I thought of the hours of innocent fun it had given us. It had been the scene of many goals and not a few great saves. My son, who is soon off to uni, smiled thoughtfully as I mentioned that this was the end of the ‘goalposts of childhood’. Perhaps he knew what I meant.

My own childhood goalposts had been ‘doon the back’. Drawn with chalk on the red brick of the ‘sausage wall’ at one end, and on part of the ‘wash hoose’ at the other. Many a league, Cup and international match was played out between those goals on the Dennistoun dirt. We once put on a parallel version of a historic England v Scotland match while the real match was being played at Wembley. Jim Mone sitting on one of the dykes had a transister radio to his ear. As we played our match he chalked up live score updates on the wall — our Twitter and FaceBook anno 1967. What a day.

We did use a pile of jackets up on the old Dennistoun cricket pitch, but only rarely. Mostly, we played on the red gravel surface at the Finlay Drive entrance. That pitch was fitted with real goalposts — like the ones they had at Hampden. Or so we imagined.

These sentimental memories of receding years accompanied my removal of the ruined metal goal frame. But, as you can imagine, it seemed an almost symbolic act. For fans of Scottish football the ‘goalposts’ that once defined the game of our football childhoods — have not only been moved, they’ve been been twisted and mis-shapen out of all recognition.

The past decades have seen a fundamental change in the way our game is run and governed, at home and abroad. Money is now king and sporting consideration is a luxury we sometimes have to put to one side — or at least, so we’re told.

At the risk of stating the obvious, sport, if it is to mean anything at all, has to be based on clearly defined rules and principles. These rules must be applied equally to all the participants, they are certainly not optional extras. However, to misquote and paraphrase George Orwell, ‘all teams are equal, but some teams are more equal than others’ — at least, when it comes to Scottish football.

The efforts by the SFA to re-interpret rules to fit the unfortunate circumstances surrounding the demise of Rangers FC in 2012 have left most of us scratching our heads. Much of the Scottish media has backed up the SFA’s efforts, something which has added to the general confusion and chaos. In fact, it’s become clear that the death of Rangers, as we knew them, has been such a traumatic event that it must be denied. The authorities and media seem to have been so besotted with one club that its loss is out of the question. And so, it’s been gifted a bizarre kind of immunity from liquidation and death that implies its on-going existence, long after it drew it’s final breath.

This situation has opened the door to a legion of businessmen on the make. They have been allowed to perpetuate the myth, with SFA blessing, that they ‘saved’ Rangers. And their unwavering message is, that they can only succeed if fans keep giving them their hard-earned cash. To those outside the blue bubble it looks like a huge con trick. If the only source of real money in football is the fans, then the Ibrox faithful have been royally fleeced.

How different it could have been if the former club had been allowed a dignified end. A year out of the game would probably have allowed fans to restart a newco of their own. They could have applied for entry into the professional leagues along with the other clubs waiting in line. Chances are they would have been given special dispensation, and walked straight into the bottom tier. Of course, they would have claimed to be the continuation of the spirit of the previous entity — but would anyone have argued against that? How different it could have been if the rules governing the game had been respected. The SFA may even have kept their dignity intact and the press not felt obliged to print half-truths, falsehoods and lies.

You’ve got to wonder why Dunfermline and Hearts fought so desperately to avoid liquidation. After all, the Scottish football authorities now seem intent on convincing us that liquidation has little or no effect on a football club. Even past sins, such as wrongly-registered players are as naught — if, at the time, they were thought to have been registered correctly. By this logic, we have to ask: if a ‘company’ running a ‘club’ bribes a referee, will retrospective action will be taken against the ‘club’. The players and the club, after all, will have done nothing wrong. And since the referee was not known to have been bribed, and not struck off, he was qualified to referee the match in question, at the time. Using the SFA thought process, the result would probably be allowed to stand. Personally, I’m not sure I follow SFA logic. They’ve ‘moved the goalposts’, and (you saw it coming) bent them into an unrecognisable shape.

Which brings me back to our garden. The old metal goal frame is waiting to be driven down to the local re-cycling centre. The twisted metal and worn-out net are useless. Ruined by forces beyond our control. There is no interest in a replacement at present. Perhaps, if we have grandchildren, they will show an interest in football. If they do, I’ll build a new set of goalposts. They’ll be straight and true, the way the goalposts of childhood should be. The way goalposts should always be.

About the author

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4,642 Comments so far

ptd1978Posted on11:19 pm - Jan 21, 2014


I don’t think Tom English did too bad a job with his Wallace interview. He asked some direct questions and got answers that seemed as direct as your going to get from a company CEO. Okay there are posts here that seem to give lie to some of his responses, but they’re only heresay at the moment. If he lied, we’ll know he’s on the same gravy train as all the others. Just the same, I think he’s actually going to try and save the company.
We all know the situation at Sevco, but this guy, if he is on the level, has to paint a rosy picture, while ruthlessly slashing at anything the could save any money inside the company and while still being on the reputation maintaining side of truthful.
The real softball responses from TE was to not ask for a timeline on the areas where Wallace talked about increasing investment. That was pure flannel and should have been exposed as such.
I doubt Wallace is at it in the same way his predecessors were. His conundrum is probably about whether to stick around and make the effort to save Sevco, or to give it a month and then resign for personal reasons (meaning “I tried but this company is just too far gone”).

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Exiled CeltPosted on11:21 pm - Jan 21, 2014


Well said Goosy……and another point……..

The SFA have also managed to cost innocent parties money they can probably ill afford to lose, by the SFA conniving with the spivs via their 5 way agreement in allowing the parent/holding club nonsense to continue unabated..

Reason?

Was the booking at Carnoustie Hotel made by TRFC or RIFC?

Someone at the hotel may have no clue what the difference is – but guaranteed the spivs and in particular Ken Olverman will know that RIFC have all the money and that TRFC is the one running up all the bills.

Its like that scene in Goodfellas where deliveries come in one door and go out the other………..while the bills sit unpaid by the restaurant.

Wonder how Ken is using his Craig Whyte experiences to prevent such a thing ever happening again…..

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scapaflowPosted on11:31 pm - Jan 21, 2014


Exiled Celt says:
January 21, 2014 at 11:21 pm

Exciled, It is not as straightforward as all the expenditure is in TRFC and all the Income is in RIFC, there is more than one subsidiary and joint venture for a start.

Without a proper org chart and a set of the full group accounts, its really impossible to tell exactly what sits where

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calums obsessionPosted on11:32 pm - Jan 21, 2014


Hardly surprising that the players have rejected the concept of a wage reduction.

Just over a year ago, and only days after the IPO cash had landed, Mr McCoist makes his move.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/201292857/One-year-ago

Not only was he looking for a return to his former salary level of £750,000 (reduced to £600,000 for 6 months) he also demanded a refund of his previous deductions amounting to another £62,500.

It is interesting to note Alistair requested that his salary be concealed. Whilst privacy of financial matters should be afforded, it’s not on to deliberately mislead the fans and potential investors. His £200,000 masking attempt was rightfully denied.

Charles later confirms that the club has no option but to accept the pay rise and arrears.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/201293323/Charlie-Says

One final point. Ally received 1 million shares at a price of 1p each (anticipated float price of £1.20 – £1.50). At this moment in time I have no confirmation that the £10,000 payment has been made. Perhaps, and similar to Charles, this deduction will be made from his final salary?
http://tl.gd/n_1s00m03 · Reply
Report post (?)

If this is real from twitter ( charlottes latest incarnation), puts paid to mccoist not knowing his salary, player salaries and a few other myths’ For avoidance of doubt, seems a bit too good to be true……
Calum

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CampbellsmoneyPosted on11:34 pm - Jan 21, 2014


Scapaflow,

What role have ICAS and ICAEW had in any of this?

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scapaflowPosted on11:39 pm - Jan 21, 2014


Campbellsmoney says:
January 21, 2014 at 11:34 pm

Ach, was poking fun at the fact that there is an inordinately large number of CAs involved in this basket case, makes me wonder if there really is a secret handshake, though my big brother denies it vehemently!

So which side of the Gruesome Twosome are you from? (Rhetorical Question! )

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DenPosted on11:50 pm - Jan 21, 2014


Palacio67
======================

The headline overstated what Patullo said, he was much more bland,in the Patey style, added nothing to our understanding.

I was amused by his statement that it was impossible to Rule out Administration but it is much less likely than it was two to three years ago. It was a certainty two years ago; because it happened.

They are in a financial mess and even if they are serious about cost cutting they are probably too late, in addition they have started badly by bringing in an expensive consultant, and botched up the first test by going at the players salary without thinking it through.

I suspect that the Spivs operation is moving to the exit stage and they want the worn out company to look its best for potential suitors. The suitors will be more Spivs or the Rangers men. The first set will drive the next administration through a strategy, the second set will do it through incompetence. I could see this pattern going on into the Juniors.

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YerevanPosted on11:51 pm - Jan 21, 2014


From the List of Creditors:-

Oxford Hotels & Inns (Carnoustie) £3,709.96

Surely lightning can’t strike twice?

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bartokPosted on11:51 pm - Jan 21, 2014


Esteban says:
January 21, 2014 at 10:16 pm
19 0 Rate This

Slightly off topic, but The World Tonight on BBC Radio 4 is about to examine the question of keeping politics out of the football stadium, I assume following the Nicolas Anelka development today. The introductory clip played unknown supporters of an unknown club singing something about a famine being over, which seemed to be linked to an invitation to some other people to “go home”.

I wonder if Jack Irvine listens to Radio 4.

More news as we get it.
=================================================================
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b03q8z4m/The_World_Tonight_21_01_2014/

at 33’48”

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Exiled CeltPosted on11:52 pm - Jan 21, 2014


scapaflow says:

January 21, 2014 at 11:31 pm

Exiled Celt says:
January 21, 2014 at 11:21 pm

Exciled, It is not as straightforward as all the expenditure is in TRFC and all the Income is in RIFC, there is more than one subsidiary and joint venture for a start.

Without a proper org chart and a set of the full group accounts, its really impossible to tell exactly what sits where

++++++++++++++

I agree I simplified it somewhat – how about one looks likely to go into administration and one does not.

How would the front desk clerk at a hotel in Carnoustie know which one is ok to bill later or needs to settle up before they leave?

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CampbellsmoneyPosted on11:57 pm - Jan 21, 2014


Scapa,

I have seen accountancy firms with fewer accountants than Rangers have.

Other accountancy reguulatory bodies are available.

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Exiled CeltPosted on11:58 pm - Jan 21, 2014


Yerevan says:

January 21, 2014 at 11:51 pm

From the List of Creditors:-

Oxford Hotels & Inns (Carnoustie) £3,709.96

Surely lightning can’t strike twice?

****************

Always struck me as odd that SFA via the 5 Way Agreement ensured the newco had to pay all oldco football debts……..

All debts incurred by oldco were in principle football debts as they were debts run up by a “mysterious ethereal being” that played football.

In this example the Carnoustie Hotel would not have had the bill were it not for a football club staying there in order for them to play football under the auspices of SFA/SPL in a match in a competition with said SFA/SPL providing oversight and governance (allegedly!) – so how can that not be construed a football debt?

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scapaflowPosted on11:59 pm - Jan 21, 2014


Exiled Celt says:
January 21, 2014 at 11:52 pm

Was kicking this around last night, our member of the Gruesome Twosome made cases for either, neither and both going into Admin, depending on the circumstances and the desired outcome.

Devious bar stewards these Grusome Twosome types, drank all my best whisky

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scapaflowPosted on12:03 am - Jan 22, 2014


Campbellsmoney says:
January 21, 2014 at 11:57 pm

Indeed!

Ref the new leaks, its almost as if there was a concerted campaign to undermine Mr McCoist with his support base, prior to getting rid of him.

Nah, they wouldn’t do that would they?

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AquinasPosted on12:07 am - Jan 22, 2014


I agree with Phil Mac’

MP isn’t a house builders gold mine, yet.
It’s in the Greenbelt but not zoned as Greenbelt, lines drawn by a Sevconite Planner? No matter, no rules broken just unusual, check out the on line planning page for Local Plan Zoning on East Dunbartonshire Council website.

MP has potential for high value housing, easy to track developments with this, phone the Planning Department ask for an officer that covers Milngavie and ask what pre development discussions have been had on MP, they will answer, as they know a Freedom of info request is a hassle.

In the short term MP could obtain some option to develop £, say a few thousands pounds for say 5years, if planning is successful then maybe £2/3m paid to owner, so MP at a cost of £2.5m a year is a real drag for Sevco.

My advice to Sevco, would be to apply for 49 houses closest to their Western boundary to the town, however, I don’t think their McCoistism, WATP attitude would allow themselves to be seen as desperate, it would also be costly planning application carried out in public forums, the Loving Cup Klan don’t do public, therefore in my opinion MP, or Kelvinside War Memorial Trust/Lotto Funded for all persons park, as I call it, will probably be moth balled then tarted around developers in a few years time.

Mon, The Dons, D’Utd, Murderwell, The Jags, Hibs, St Johnstone, you are the future, demand the best from your Clubs!

Scottish Football Thanks a Strong Turnbull Hutton!

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FisianiPosted on12:12 am - Jan 22, 2014


I keep reporting that The Rangers are losing 38,000 pounds a day. However 40 people each costing 400 pounds on a slap up meal and 4 star accommodation just a 90 minute drive from home adds another 16,000 on in just a few hours. No expense is spared. You’d think they had money to burn. yep 20 pounds every 15 seconds. I switch on my TSFM each day to check if there is still a pulse at Ibrox. Faint but still beating I hear today.

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scapaflowPosted on12:22 am - Jan 22, 2014


Aquinas says:
January 22, 2014 at 12:07 am

“It’s in the Greenbelt but not zoned as Greenbelt, lines drawn by a Sevconite Planner?” That’s not that unusual, I have seen the same trick pulled in other areas with school playing fields.

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2007/11/12152424/9

Not sure how/if SPP 11 would impact potential development at MP, Sport Scotland used to have an automatic objection policy, but, I haven’t been involved in one of these cases for a while.

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scapaflowPosted on12:43 am - Jan 22, 2014


Another not bad article in the Daily Mail

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2543599/Cash-strapped-Rangers-sell-star-players-cost-cutting-measure.html

“‘Lee Wallace is the one who constantly gets mentioned when people talk about marketable players,’ said the new Ibrox supremo.
‘He’s an international player, consistently performing for us, the fans love him and he’s very, very important…(but) I wouldn’t rule anything in or out.’

“business living beyond its means, with a cost base out of proportion with its ability to generate income”

“club need to save several millions to make business financially sustainable”

Going now to wash my mouth out with soap

Edit
I’m surprised that Mr Wallace isn’t insisting that any future player signings, must also be Chartered Accounts, in keeping with the parent company’s recruitment policies
News just in, ACCA reports Rangers to SFA for accounting discrimination 🙂

G’nite!

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CampbellsmoneyPosted on12:43 am - Jan 22, 2014


I think a “football debt” will be a debt owed to a football auuthority, a member of that organisation or a player. So the wages of (e.g.) the ticket selling staff won’t have to be picked up but the players wages arrears will, in a football insolvency, by anyone wishing to carry on playing in that league.

That’s why it is preferable for the players to try to agree wage deferrals rather than pay cuts during administrations.

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AquinasPosted on12:44 am - Jan 22, 2014


Scapaflow.

You know yer stuff, the days of below the radar planning are gone, if Murray Park is being lined up for housing it’s years away, and everyone will know who’s developing and what it costs.

WATP are feched, we are the new Rangers are totally welcome, they need to change tho.
doubt it tho.

Any hedge funds interested in a long term pension plan in Milngavie? What am I saying? This is only General not Legal thoughts!

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CastofthousandsPosted on12:51 am - Jan 22, 2014


Esteban says:
January 21, 2014 at 10:16 pm

” The introductory clip played unknown supporters of an unknown club singing something about a famine being over”
—————————
I listened to this programme. The rendition of the Famine Song by Ranger’s fans was being used as an example of inappropriate behaviour in the world of football, so nothing particularly sinister.

What took my interest more was the piece on RBS that aired soon afterward. Described how their Global Restructuring Group appeared to be distressing businesses in order to take advantage of their real estate assets. The initial gambit seemed to be concern for the business but was soon followed by all sorts of fees being lumped on them for services rendered, which the businesses found it difficult/impossible to shoulder. It had an interview with Ian Fraser who is not unknown to regular TSFM aficionados.

The Rangers strategy does appear bewildering and not unnaturally attracts much attention and comment. Somehow this RBS strategy had a ring of familiarity about it. Perhaps such tactics are commonplace amongst those who move in RBS circles.

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scapaflowPosted on1:07 am - Jan 22, 2014


Aquinas

Thank you. 😳

Castofthousands

Ian Fraser and others have been chasing this for a while, its despicable, the RBS CEO gave a half hearted defence of it before Christmas. The fact that RBS is a to all intents and purposes a nationalised bank, would make it worse, except nothing could make it worse.

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Bryce CurdyPosted on4:26 am - Jan 22, 2014


By MSM standards the Wallace interview by Tom English in The Scotsman gets a 9 out of 10. Perhaps some of the answers merited supplementary questions, but I disagree entirely that failing to mention administration completely devalues the interview. Wallace has very recently publicly stated that there is no prospect whatsoever of administration so why bother asking him again when we all know how he would answer, honestly or otherwise.

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gamesabogeyPosted on5:42 am - Jan 22, 2014


It’s difficult for a long time lurker to add meaningfully to such a well analyzed debate (albeit a little one sided). However, I’d like to offer a perspective that’s a little contrarian to the norm. Most of us come to this debate from a perspective where football club owners are custodians of a Club’s history (sic) and then to it’s future. That is not the DNA of those ‘investors’ involved in RIFC and it is not the motivation of those who ultimately put their money forward. It’s all about their return on investment. They used other peoples money where possible and repaid it quickly at a not quite a wonga,but still grotesque return. They never altered the day to day business model because sustainability was never a concern. When you’re starting point is a £5mm guaranteed loan and everything else after that is gravy, conventional economics no longer apply. Any later investment needs to be secured or quickly repaid but if creates extra cash it is worthwhile. If anyone is prepared to do so without such a guarantee (season tickets, anyone?) it is just more free money to be extracted with no commitment to meet the expectation of high quality football that the footballing stakeholders might expect.

The bottom line is that those investors who were allowed access to RIFC have generated tremendous shareholder return for those core investors. The remaining Club is nothing but a husk.

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BawsmanPosted on6:48 am - Jan 22, 2014


Ally is doing just fine thank you.

http://www.scribd.com/mobile/doc/201292857

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upthehoopsPosted on7:20 am - Jan 22, 2014


Re the latest allegations by Charlotte ❓ on Twitter about McCoist, his salary demands, and that he knew exactly what wages were being offered to all the players he signed. If correct, It flies in the face of everything he has said, but It is unlikely in the extreme the media will take up the cudgel regarding their golden child.

On a wider note though you wonder what good the media believe they achieve with their reporting strategy and silence when it suits them. Back in the day of the Celtic takeover they provided a daily feast for those who wanted to laugh at Celtic. Who is laughing now? Moving on they ignored the spiraling debts under Murray, then welcomed in Whyte with open arms and off the radar wealth stories, despite the opposite truth being freely available. They remained silent until it was too late, as they did with Charles Green. Now they protect McCoist way beyond a level anyone in his position deserves.

Sometimes in life you reap what you sow, but some people use their experiences as a learning opportunity. Only fools would continue to behave like the Scottish media does – says it all really.

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fergusslayedthebluesPosted on7:28 am - Jan 22, 2014


Campbellsmoney
Ecobhoy
TSFM
Cheers

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jimlarkinPosted on8:07 am - Jan 22, 2014


Haven’t had time for TSFM luxury recently.

. . . I did however come across this story – about mike ashley – and i wondered if it had been covered here?

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/article-2541792/Sportswear-tycoon-Mike-Ashley-smashes-tank-Debenhams.html

Could the knock on effects of this be that the Sevco shops would be surplus to requirements?

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essexbeancounterPosted on8:38 am - Jan 22, 2014


Campbellsmoney says:

January 21, 2014 at 11:57 pm

I have seen accountancy firms with fewer accountants than Rangers have.

===========================================================================
…..mine for starters…!

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essexbeancounterPosted on8:42 am - Jan 22, 2014


scapaflow says:

January 21, 2014 at 11:59 pm

Exiled Celt says:
January 21, 2014 at 11:52 pm

Was kicking this around last night, our member of the Gruesome Twosome made cases for either, neither and both going into Admin, depending on the circumstances and the desired outcome.

Devious bar stewards these Grusome Twosome types, drank all my best whisky
===============================================================================
….probably the same two Bar Stewards who drank my best cognac…Hennessy no less…!

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essexbeancounterPosted on8:49 am - Jan 22, 2014


scapaflow says:

January 22, 2014 at 12:43 am

I’m surprised that Mr Wallace isn’t insisting that any future player signings, must also be Chartered Accounts, in keeping with the parent company’s recruitment policies
==========================================================================
Scapa, I know your big brother is a CA but I thought that I had sole blagging rights toward the main accountancy bodies, well ICAS at least…after all I am paying a handsome four figure sum every year…!

Ah’m aff tae ma work…”silly season” almost over!

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helpmaboabPosted on8:56 am - Jan 22, 2014


Don’t blame Ally McCoist if he wants best for his Rangers players
I had a brief chat with Graham Wallace, the Rangers chief executive, in the tunnel at Station Park before Rangers took on Forfar and was very impressed by the way he came across.
………………………
Another sycophantic puff piece.This beauty comes from Evening Times Derek Rae.

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ecobhoyPosted on9:04 am - Jan 22, 2014


gamesabogey says:
January 22, 2014 at 5:42 am

It’s difficult for a long time lurker to add meaningfully to such a well analyzed debate (albeit a little one sided).
========================================================
I accept that the debate is a bit one-sided but IMO not because of an imbalance between pro and anti Rangers supporters on the site but more because so much of what has happened at Ibrox is cloaked in secrecy and the bits we uncover smell.

I think that also accounts for the lack of sensible Bears unable to defend their club and advance solutions that might save it. They are kept well in the dark too and don’t swallow the PR-swill fed to their more gullible brethern.

I think you are correct about how the games has changed because of the change in ownership structure since the oririginal unincorporated associations through to limited companies and then on to PLCs whose shareholders – excluding fans – might have absolutely zilch interest in football as a sport let alone interest in an individual club.

Interestingly the initial flirtation with IPOs was to raise the cash to buy better players and pay them and also improve grounds and a high proportion of shares issued went to club supporters. We have moved from that phase to one where anonymous offshored shareholders are stripping the assets and the future is uncertain.

I did a more in-depth piece in July 2012 and it is still relevant today: http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/07/17/has-green-got-the-right-aim-for-rangers-footballing-share-issues-guest-post-by-ecojon/

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davythelotionPosted on9:10 am - Jan 22, 2014


The confusion surrounding Ally’s new contract (same terms for half the money) or a wage deferral (thereby reducing this year’s tax burden) or as shares for cash swap, could quite easily have been cleared up by Graham Wallace. He chose not to. Instead he contradicted Ally’s well maintained line that he was willing but nothing had been done by the board.
The thing about Charlotte’s latest revelations is that by using this method of disclosure, it is practically 100% certain that the MSM will NOT report the previous salary deferral or the manager’s intimate knowledge of players’ contracts.
Time for a 4 star nap!

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ecobhoyPosted on9:24 am - Jan 22, 2014


Bawsman says:
January 22, 2014 at 6:48 am

Ally is doing just fine thank you.
http://www.scribd.com/mobile/doc/201292857
=================================================
What a bombshell that email is if even only half-genuine.

I think the skids are being greased under Ally as we speak which seems appropriate given the Ibrox shipbuilding links.

Amazing that Green was prepared to make a much bigger sacrifice wage-wise than Ally it ‘appears’ However by accepting a cut from £720K to £360K did he lose anything actually given that he was then made the recipient of a bonus of 100 per cent. of his gross salary in the event that the Club wins promotion from the SFL or otherwise transfers to another football league. The cynic in me is quite certain that he would have got the bonus for moving up a division.

So why was there so much resistance to cutting the same deal with Ally – did he expose himself with revealing his fears of what the Bears might think if they knew what he was on. So was he actually being put in place right at the start as a future ‘patsy’ if needed 😉

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wottpiPosted on9:39 am - Jan 22, 2014


So we are 30 days into CEO Wallaces review and nothing appears to have happened in relation to cost cutting other than Ally may have finally signed off on his wage cut over the weekend.

Players are not for budging when it comes to reducing salaries.

We have 10 days left in the transfer window and there is not obvious signs of anyone leaving Ibrox soon, nor does there appear to be any takers out there.

The Finance Director, whose public declarations on the financial position of ‘the club’ has always been way out, reckons there will be £1m in the bank come April, so that means they are most probably spending it as we speak.

The football team is still be treated to premier pampering.

Like many I can’t see where the required savings are going to come from that will get ‘the club’ living within its means.

As discussed the other day the Murray Park options are there but mothballing and making staff redundant costs money that they don’t have. Trying to sell it on takes time, which could be something else they don’t appear to have.

Many are certain that administration seems to be a forgone conclusion and I would have thought it was the obvious way to reduce costs through making people redundant without the need for compensation etc.

My only word of warning is that in this saga history often repeats itself.

Therefore please do not get too disappointed if , like when we expected a sure fire win in the FTTT, administration does not happen.

I for one will not be surprised if some fudging and wangling sees them get through.
What state they will be in is a different matter as I still think the asset strippers have their eye on the prize but only time will tell.

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SmugasPosted on9:42 am - Jan 22, 2014


I’ve thought for a while that Ally’s peg was coming loose – only the winning streak is keeping him there, and no doubt the arrogance that only he can guarantee them glorious promotion.

If the spivs cut him loose just now (if they could afford to of course) there would be instant questioning from the MSM (imagine that) of “Are you sure you have the clubs interests at heart?”

Funnily enough though the winning run is in the interests of the spivs to keep the illusion alive – Ally’s involvement to them is merely co-incidental – but then there aren’t any ST’s to sell yet are there? 😉

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ecobhoyPosted on9:49 am - Jan 22, 2014


jimlarkin says:
January 22, 2014 at 8:07 am

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/article-2541792/Sportswear-tycoon-Mike-Ashley-smashes-tank-Debenhams.html

Could the knock on effects of this be that the Sevco shops would be surplus to requirements?
================================================================
I doubt if that would be the case as at the moment there is only the Ibrox shop, the Glasgow Airport shop and the one in Belfast City Centre. Ibrox will remain but whether it ever moves into Edmiston House seems very problematic. IMO the airport shop was a vanity project to keep the Bears onside just because Celtic have a shop there and I think it will struggle to wash its face and will quietly slip below the waves dependant on lease terms.

I seem to remember that the previous Belfast shop – which was shared with that other beloved NI club merchandise – closed in terms of Rangers gear but may have remained open for the other club stuff. But I haven’t been through Belfast in recent years as my Irish family ties have died out so I’m not up to speed there.

SportsDirect outlets will also cater to a different clientele and quality of merchandise to Debenhams.

Perhaps a more appealing scenario to me was a biz piece that explained the Debenhams move as a means of Ashley increasing his access to top brands like Adidas and Nike which apparently keep a tight limit on the percentage of stuff SportsDirect can buy as it would affect the ‘market’ and therefore the profit margins of its other customers. The argument is that he gets access to the Debehams market ‘share’ of these products.

This kind of thing is one of the reasons that Ashley has been so vigorous in buying-up well-known and sometimes iconic Sport brand names although some argue that the quality is not what it used to be and that the brand name is slapped on a wide range of products – not originally marketed under the brand name – to boost sales.

Always at least two sides to Ashley – either tank commander villain or provider of cheap gear with the right labels to the masses. One thing for sure is that he has so far proven to be a top UK Retailer with a ‘touch’ that far outweighs and has crushed most of his rivals. And that is what mystifies me about his interest in Rangers although he has the money to play the long game and take a punt up the park so beloved of the Ibrox players if not the mystery shareholders.

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peterjungPosted on10:01 am - Jan 22, 2014


Given what we have just learned concerning Ally’s previous salary manoeuvrings then I would take all talk of this latest salary cut with a very large pinch of salt.

Here we have a guy who was previously quite happy to let the rumours of him working for nothing circulate throughout the media…this is now an accepted truth going by Clyde SSB (yea…I know)…

Here we find out not only was he only agreeing a deferral but he was requesting the board to actively mislead The Rangers support further to the true amount of his remuneration over concerns of how this would appear to the masses….

I have always been convinced that this was pretty much the case from the beginning anyway. Yet another light shone onto the true nature of Ally McCoist.

Just wait to the Bears find out exactly just how much McCoist has really taken out of Rangers/The Rangers when all of this is over……I am sure that sooner or later this will be revealed…

“of that there is no doubt”….to coin a phrase……..

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ecobhoyPosted on10:02 am - Jan 22, 2014


Smugas says:
January 22, 2014 at 9:42 am

I’ve thought for a while that Ally’s peg was coming loose – only the winning streak is keeping him there, and no doubt the arrogance that only he can guarantee them glorious promotion.

If the spivs cut him loose just now (if they could afford to of course) there would be instant questioning from the MSM (imagine that) of “Are you sure you have the clubs interests at heart?”

Funnily enough though the winning run is in the interests of the spivs to keep the illusion alive – Ally’s involvement to them is merely co-incidental – but then there aren’t any ST’s to sell yet are there?
=============================================================
If you have a look at RM I think you’d be amazed at the attacks being launched on him yesterday and that’s before the latest CF stuff. OK the site is infested with a pro-Board PR driven agenda but it makes it a useful listening station.

I really believe he is shaky and he could well be released I reckon for some of the statements he has made. You have to remember he can’t sue the club as that would totally destroy him with the fans. He would remain a club legend for his goals but he is already being widely compared to Greig as a useless manager.

And then he will be thinking that he can make a comeback when the Real rangers Men return as they might at some stage. By then the current Board will be gone and Ally can be blamed for everything.

I reckon the way they will sell STs is with a new manager – Ally is well past his sell-by date.

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neepheidPosted on10:15 am - Jan 22, 2014


ecobhoy says:
January 22, 2014 at 9:49 am

And that is what mystifies me about his interest in Rangers although he has the money to play the long game and take a punt up the park so beloved of the Ibrox players if not the mystery shareholders.
=============
Perhaps what Ashley sees is the demand for Rangers merchandise. We can all laugh at Green’s 500 million fanbase, but there really is a large number of fans who do tend to buy merchandise. Potentially, Rangers Retail is a strong business. Unfortunately for TRFC, Green seems to have been totally outflanked by (or in cahoots with?) Ashley, and real control of Rangers Retail is in the hands of Ashley. The whole deal has been cleverly structured to allow Rangers Retail to appear in the RIFC accounts as a Rangers subsidiary, which keeps the bears happily buying, whereas in reality Sports Direct holds the purse strings.

I did wonder whether Ashley is behind the mystery £2.5m emergency facility which allowed Deloittes to sign off the accounts, and which is no doubt being spent as we speak. I wonder what the security is? Maybe the part of Retail that Ashley doesn’t already own? Ashley might calculate that a few million is a good price for 100% exclusivity on Rangers merchandise for ever more. Just think of the margins!

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peterjungPosted on10:18 am - Jan 22, 2014


ecobhoy says:
January 22, 2014 at 10:02 am
Smugas says:
January 22, 2014 at 9:42 am
________________________________________________________________________________
Gents, I have to agree there certainly seems something afoot here. The recent negative stories creeping onto the back pages coupled with the bizarre photographs of Ally’s various contortions say a lot. Indeed…the trend on RM has been quite marked in recent times and is now almost an accepted truth…
media manipulation anyone? surely not…. 😉

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Not The Huddle MalcontentPosted on10:24 am - Jan 22, 2014


No one is bigger than the Clumpany – and that includes Ally

a few wee snippets suggesting that he hasn’t taken his cuts, he is refusing to implement the necessary cuts to teh squad (either through the wage reduction concept or by selling players) they could even suggest he was saying fit players were injured to reduce chances of them being sold, then they could say he is actively working against the board in making the club sustainable – 4* hotel stop overs, giving his vote against the board (his employer) and other such proclamations against board members past and present (I know who’s to blame, but i’ll keep that to myself)

sack him, without pay and make it public that he is taking the club to court for his FULL salary and any other bits he is entitled to, throw out numbers like £800k salary and the bonus etc.

but at the same time, simply move Stockbridge on, no fanfare, Wallace can claim it’s part of the cleansing and Ally was as much to blame as BS, bring in someone like McCall, Bomber Brown, Gus McPherson, Jimmy Calderwood even – someone with bear credentials but used to operating at a lower level and who can manage a club with tight purse strings….maybe even wee bawwy as assistant

announce the clear out is complete, the cuts have been made, the club will be on the right track to move forward…if only the bears will buy the season tickets…..

it is that easy to pull their strings and they will fall for it, no problem at all there.

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Carl31Posted on10:42 am - Jan 22, 2014


gamesabogey says:
January 22, 2014 at 5:42 am

I have no doubt that a few folk involved in the Rangers Saga have produced a handsome return to ‘shareholders’ over the piece, but some activities are at the least suspect and at most could have SFO chapping at their door – potentially at the door of Ibrox if such activities have been carried out in an official capacity.
I’m more concerned (and I suppose this site is too) with how the spivs, shysters and charlatans have, and continue to, dress up things and events to be something they aren’t , with the assistance of the SFA and the media, to the detriment of Scottish Football as a whole – whilst they have been generating this handsome return to the original investors. Many of them likely remain players. A few may be in the governing bodies.

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Carl31Posted on10:45 am - Jan 22, 2014


neepheid says:
January 22, 2014 at 10:15 am

Speculating:
If the mood at Ibrox changes to revolt, would Ashley go so far as to market merchandise that reflects such a mood, since he has controlling stake and say over Rangers Media?

Tops and scarves with anti-board messages?

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ecobhoyPosted on10:46 am - Jan 22, 2014


neepheid says:
January 22, 2014 at 10:15 am
ecobhoy says:
January 22, 2014 at 9:49 am

I did wonder whether Ashley is behind the mystery £2.5m emergency facility which allowed Deloittes to sign off the accounts, and which is no doubt being spent as we speak. I wonder what the security is? Maybe the part of Retail that Ashley doesn’t already own? Ashley might calculate that a few million is a good price for 100% exclusivity on Rangers merchandise for ever more. Just think of the margins!
=================================================
Twisted minds think alike 👿

There is the £1.5 million drawn-down to Rangers Retail Ltd agreed under the joint venture. Apparently £1 million has been drawn-down already but there was some kind of note in the accounts that it wasn’t available for RIFC use or something similar which struck me as odd and again points to the joint venture not being a ‘real’ subsidiary of TRFCL or RIFC Plc.

I don’t believe it really is anyway as the shareholding split in any matters involving finance which goes to a vote is 51 held by Rangers and 98 held by the relevant Sports Direct appointed directors. It also seems that SportsDirect can buy out the Rangers interest in Rangers Retails but the converse doesn’t seem to be the case on my reading of the info contained in the Rangers AIM Prospectus.

But I suppose it’s possible that another £2.5 million could be made available possibly to Rangers Retail from the Ashley Camp but would that only be a book-keeping exercise to allow the accounts to be signed-off especially if RIFC weren’t able to freely spend it.

I am not on my ‘puter with the accounts info so I don’t have the exact wording on the contrsaints on the £1 million rangers Retail draw-down and am relying on memory which these days can be a bit flaky 😕

I suppose there is the possibility that it might suit the way Ashley does business if he were able to buy-out the Rangers brand logos come any melt-down and no matter what then happens to the club he will be the only one able to brand the kit and therefore control sales of it. It might force any new creation to change logos but would the fans buy such merchandise as it destroys the ‘continuity’ myth.

There’s quite a lot about licencing rights in the joint venture agreement with some of it detailed in the Rangers AIM Prospectus which might be relevant come Ashley walking away with Rangers Retail. It’s a bit like opening a Russian matryoshka doll although there is no limit to the different variations which could emerge.

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SmugasPosted on10:51 am - Jan 22, 2014


Eco,

Agreed. Only two wnning runs in Scotland are keeping him in a job just now.

I’m with you, new broom etc maybe with a sprinkling of blue knight involvement and a modest garnish of King is on his way and the tickets will flood off the shelves once more. Here’s hoping someone asks the question “is this money going to to TRFC or RIFC’s account?”

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iamacantPosted on10:56 am - Jan 22, 2014


Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
January 22, 2014 at 10:24 am
—————————————————————————————

Jimmy Calderwood has just picked up a new “gig” back in Holland with De Graafschap. I suppose he could be head hunted as he won his 1st game in charge on Monday night so he is another one on an undefeated run.

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m.c.f.c.Posted on11:25 am - Jan 22, 2014


Distinct lack of transfer action / gossip / speculation for The Rangers across all media – compared to the club they most frequently use for reference in matters of status / glory / finances.

Maybe Mr Wallace has been on a mole hunt and wheels are turning within wheels or maybe there is less than meets the eye to Mr Wallace’s cost crackdown. Only time will tell.

9 days and counting – transfer window closes – 31st Jan
86 days and counting – business review ends – 18th April
69 days and counting – £1,000,000 day – also April Fools’ Day btw

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BigGavPosted on11:27 am - Jan 22, 2014


ecobhoy says:
January 22, 2014 at 10:46 am

I am not on my ‘puter with the accounts info so I don’t have the exact wording on the contrsaints on the £1 million rangers Retail draw-down and am relying on memory which these days can be a bit flaky 😕
——–

Note 16 of the RIFC accounts (p39) states:
“Included within cash and bank balances is £946,000 relating to Rangers Retail Limited, which is not immediately available as working capital to the Group as a whole.”

It is not clear if this money relates to the draw-down facility (which is described in the Prospectus, but not mentioned in the Accounts). However, you and I have debated this before and your arguments in favour of this interpretation were fairly convincing.

Whatever the source of the funds though, I believe the reason it can’t be used freely by TRFCL or RIFC is that it would have to be transferred out of Rangers Retail as a dividend, requiring authority of the RR board/shareholders.

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Araminta Moonbeam QCPosted on11:35 am - Jan 22, 2014


Phil making Twitter claims that our hero, the bold Craigy Whyte is about to ride back into town:

What is it that that Craig Whyte is so bullish about?
What does he know that will “rock Scottish football in two weeks”?

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wottpiPosted on11:46 am - Jan 22, 2014


Araminta Moonbeam QC says:
January 22, 2014 at 11:35 am

If Whyte does make a reappearance then you just have to love this soap opera. Far better than anything the TV can offer.

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John ClarkPosted on11:49 am - Jan 22, 2014


Is this the quote of the week, or just stale news in Scotland?

Tony Higgins in the Scotsman today:

” They are finding instances of corruption and criminality in sport are coming to light far more than ever before. In football, criminals are inveigling themselves into clubs,and even national federations…..Unfortunately corruption in sport is going to be an increasingly frequent story”

( Higgins has been appointed to a high-powered expert advisory panel which has been set up to monitor corruption in sport).

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ecobhoyPosted on11:52 am - Jan 22, 2014


I know that some will think back to Ally’s statement: ‘”There was a contract put down which I can tell you in all honesty was not negotiated at all’ and on the strength of the latest CF emails label him a liar through and through.

I however don’t take that view as I believe that the contract put down was the finalised document after all the negotiations were completed. So he’s not a liar but he most certainly appears to fit the definition of ‘sleekit’ and it would be wise to forensically examine anything he claims which impinges on his personal financial position.

However, the bigger villains here must surely be the SMSM who swallowed this succulent lamb and didn’t burst-out laughing and then go on to establish the actual facts of the matter with some probing questions. At every level and on every occasion the SMSM have failed in their duty to inform their readership.

And let’s not think if they now do some slightly knocking stories on certain aspects of Rainjurs that they have seen the light or are listening to the bampots and clatterers. All that has happened is that those in charge of the secret agenda for Ibrox and their PR lackeys have given ‘the nod’ for our fearless journos to turn into ‘attack dogs’ for the day albeit toothless.

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scapaflowPosted on11:55 am - Jan 22, 2014


@Aquinas

Auchenhowie

Its probably worth checking if and when the land has been re-zoned.

If it has been re-zoned, then its worth checking if SportsScotland objected, and if not why not. As you will doubtless know SportScotland are a statutory consultee, and if, they object in these cases, as they always used to do, providing they don’t mitigate the objection, the case will end up with Scottish Ministers. In a high profile case like this, there could well be a public hearing.

I doubt that there will have been anything untoward here, given SportsScotland’s double interest in the site, but, I have known cases where Local Authorities have made honest mistakes, and have forgotten to consult SportsScotland, resulting n processes being re-started and several sore bottoms.

If there is a group of bar stewards more devious than the members of the Gruesome Twosome, they are probably to be found in local government planning departments.

A few phone calls should illuminate the matter. 😀

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m.c.f.c.Posted on11:59 am - Jan 22, 2014


Cat Amongst The Pigeons Time

My usual stance here is flippant incredulity at the miasma of the blue side of Glasgow. And to be honest I only have a fleeting interest on the green & white side as it impacts the blue.

But in the interests of balance (??) and for the sake of a bit of debate – this assertion from Neil Lennon shows the hallucinogenic additives to the water supply are not restricted to Ibrox.

Celtic in the EPL – Neil Lennon has asserted that if his squad were inducted into the cash-rich honeypot that is the EPL, they would be mid-table at worst.
http://www.hailhailmedia.com/celtic-epl/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=celtic-epl

This logic rests largely on assessment of the team and individual plays over a handful of CL games a season where they experience top class opponents . There are three crucial factors it ignores, and which blow it out of the water completely:

1) Attrition – There are 38 league games against testing opponents every season in the EPL plus two cup competitions.
2) Depth of Squad – many clubs that can put up a decent fight against the top teams when fit and strong slip to the bottom under the weight of injuries and frequent matches
3) World Class Strikers – not enough world class goal scorers eg Samaras was barely good enough when at City nearly a decade ago when they were habitually middle/low table

Personally I think it would be very interesting to see Celtic in the English leagues – and maybe one day Rangers when they recover to their blah blah blah

I’d suggest that Celtic would be best cutting their teeth in the Championship – which is very, very competitive.Just look at how many relegated EPL teams are now mid/low table. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/championship/table

The Championship would give Celtic time to spend the extra cash wisely to build and bed-in a solid squad – under sustained competition. First year promotion would not be guaranteed by any means. But first year relegation would be almost certain if they parachuted into the EPL. Longer term, sustained EPL mid-table obscurity would be a significant achievement. Let’s be clear, without mega bucks beyond normal EPL income, the top six slots are way out of reach – and hence so is CL. Is that really what Neil wants ?

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scapaflowPosted on12:10 pm - Jan 22, 2014


Eco/Smugas

If Mr Wallace gets his finger out and sets up this official fan group under a legend, that would go along way to mitigating any residual risk to ST sales, in sending MR McCoist off to fish on his pier.

Gordon Smith would be a good choice, as a harmless nod to the requisitioner camp

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ecobhoyPosted on12:10 pm - Jan 22, 2014


BigGav says:
January 22, 2014 at 11:27 am

Whatever the source of the funds though, I believe the reason it can’t be used freely by TRFCL or RIFC is that it would have to be transferred out of Rangers Retail as a dividend, requiring authority of the RR board/shareholders.
================================================
I could go down the ‘dividend’ route but I also wonder if there has been a failure to actually implement the condition for the draw-down facility that it is to be secured on Rangers property and leases. Once you do that I would say you have a ‘debt’ and proof would appear in terms of charges against the relevant property. The draw-down facility is for a 5 year period with an interest rate of Barclays Bank’s pass through rate from time-to-time and interest is to be capitalised.

There is also the possibility that the draw-down was used to fund the purchase of Edmiston House which cost £800K + VAT which was where the new Ibrox mega-store was to be relocated.

Another thing I noticed a couple of weeks ago was that Rangers Retail had three SportsDirect related directors and Rangers only had Stockbridge after Green’s departure from the Board. It seems Ashley has full control over Rangers Retail in terms of shareholding and director votes.

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ecobhoyPosted on12:14 pm - Jan 22, 2014


scapaflow says:
January 22, 2014 at 12:10 pm

Eco/Smugas

If Mr Wallace gets his finger out and sets up this official fan group under a legend, that would go a long way to mitigating any residual risk to ST sales, in sending MR McCoist off to fish on his pier. Gordon Smith would be a good choice, as a harmless nod to the requisitioner camp
============================================================
Ordinarily I would say that Smith’s own personal financial probs would make it a non-starter but as the SMSM will never make anything of it then anything’s possible.

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BartinMainPosted on12:15 pm - Jan 22, 2014


Phil is tweeting about a bullish Craig Whyte coming back in two weeks to “rock Scottish football”.

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BartinMainPosted on12:17 pm - Jan 22, 2014


Phil MacGiollaBhain ‏@Pmacgiollabhain 1h
Is Craigy boy about to come back centre stage?
Just when you think this farce has no more surprises left….
#OhDear

Phil MacGiollaBhain ‏@Pmacgiollabhain 57m
@The_No7 No wind up from me. Moreover Craigy boy seems very buoyant about things.

Phil MacGiollaBhain ‏@Pmacgiollabhain 49m
What is it that that Craig Whyte is so bullish about?
What does he know that will “rock Scottish football in two weeks”?

View Comment

scapaflowPosted on12:18 pm - Jan 22, 2014


ecobhoy says:
January 22, 2014 at 12:14 pm

I would think that whoever they put in would be a front, a useful PR face and name on the letter head, with absolutely zero control of the day to day, which will be run purely for the benefit of the Ibrox board, whoever they may be.

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Celtic67Posted on12:18 pm - Jan 22, 2014


scapa,
It is not only SportScotland that would object. There are historical reasons connected to the Antonine wall that prevents housing on that land. Something called the Antonine amenity area comes to mind. That might not be exactly what it is called though.

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scapaflowPosted on12:20 pm - Jan 22, 2014


Celtic67 says:
January 22, 2014 at 12:18 pm

Looking at some plans at the moment, there may be an Historic Scotland angle

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BartinMainPosted on12:27 pm - Jan 22, 2014


Looks like Whyte might finally be about to play his cards over ownership.

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EKBhoyPosted on12:39 pm - Jan 22, 2014


m.c.f.c. says:
January 22, 2014 at 11:59 am

Interesting points well made, a bit of a stretch to assume relegation from the EPL is a certainty ….. other factors to consider:

– Celtic could get a “bounce” in the initial weeks against unsuspecting opponents
– the games will be very open, as the cocky English push forward against the Scots
– Celtic actually play football on the deck and will get far more space going forward
– Celtic generally play below par in the SPFL as they know the result is more often in the bag , so using today’s performances as a guide may be mis-leading

Still it will not happen until European football goes kerplunk and I must admit I am ambivalent about any move.

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iamacantPosted on12:44 pm - Jan 22, 2014


517000 shares bought/sold?

http://www.lse.co.uk/SharePrice.asp?shareprice=RFC

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Celtic67Posted on12:47 pm - Jan 22, 2014


scapa,

Historic Scotland will definitlely take an interest in any planning application. I believe the area is protected due to the connections with the Antonine wall.

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redlichtiePosted on12:48 pm - Jan 22, 2014


Phil MacGiollaBhain ‏@Pmacgiollabhain 49m
What is it that that Craig Whyte is so bullish about?
What does he know that will “rock Scottish football in two weeks”?
=======================================================

Not sure what the quote signifies – where from? – but it becomes tiring to hear of nuclear events due to happen soon but invariably never do. CW put in a letter before claim many moons ago but what has happened? As far as I know nothing.

I know that Phil has a great track record but I’d prefer more than a teaser for something that might happen in two weeks time.

Scottish Football needs a strong Ally, the unofficial one-man handicapping system.

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Famous songPosted on12:48 pm - Jan 22, 2014


1. Just over a half million shares just traded at 26.50. Could anybody a little more market savvy than I comment?
2. Are there no Div 1 fans up in arms that they are getting gubbed by a team of full time professionals their club can, openly, not afford? Who may very well be on their way when a suitable points gap has opened up, and the milkman demands payment one Friday? I’d call that fantasy football, not professional sport. My team are in the Championship, and such tactics would have me spitting feathers.
3. Can’t see back who posted it, but the savant who pointed out the Carnoustie hotel were unlikely to ever see a blue pound had it spot on, as far as I can see.

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nawlitePosted on12:53 pm - Jan 22, 2014


Eco,

Like you I was not surprised at McC’s nonsense about not checking the contract before signing and couldn’t understand how the attendant press could keep a straight face. It’s typical of their behaviour throughout though, with never a follow up question to anyone!!! Never mind a question, even a sarcastic “Lucky it said £850,000 then.” would have sufficed.

Obviously the bluster is intended to make him look like ‘one of us’ to the fans, but does anyone really think that the RFC* fans believe this sort of thing?

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scapaflowPosted on12:55 pm - Jan 22, 2014


two trades totaling circa 600,000 shares on the morning rumours of the Motherwell Born Billionaire’s return. The conspiracy theorists are getting orgasmic out there :mrgreen:

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slimshady61Posted on12:55 pm - Jan 22, 2014


m.c.f.c. says:
January 22, 2014 at 11:59 am
————————————
All fair points mcfc, but you ignore the upside of the EPL – the bottom club gets £40M from TV money alone each year, rising to £46M in mid-table and so on. And those are just last year’s figures.

Celtic, with that sort of cash injection annually, a huge rise in season tickets (& inevitably season ticket prices) would be financially much better off and so able to afford better players.

You need to take all factors into the equation, not just some. And you have also ignored the fact that Celtic Park is a fortress in both domestic and European football, and I see no reason for that not to continue were they playing in the English leagues.

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GeronimosCadillacPosted on12:56 pm - Jan 22, 2014


essexbeancounter says:
January 21, 2014 at 9:03 pm

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January 21, 2014 at 8:54 pm

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ecobhoy says:
January 21, 2014 at 9:00 am
……………………………………

HMRC do not allow for it in the PD11 (I think thats the form) they demand the original on the road value from new.

HMRC the legalised version of the mafia
============================================================================
Paul…The form is the P11d which is submitted to HMRC each year by employers.
OT… but cutting to the basics, some 25 years ago HMRC reviewed the whole scheme of “Car Benefits” and introduced a version using certain pre-determined scale values (rightly or wrongly!). This was in response to the widespread and blatant abuse of the reporting basis. Unfortunately, you, and many other honest taxpayers are picking up the tab for those who choose to be dishonest…now how that that fit in with the RFC(IL) scenario?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

and of course the other side of it is that you are getting use of a car that your are not paying anything like the real cost of. The taxation of company cars was to combat widespread abuse of the PAYE system many years ago which tended to tax only salaries/wages and not “perks” therefore employers started supplying cars not salary!

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m.c.f.c.Posted on1:00 pm - Jan 22, 2014


EKBhoy says:
January 22, 2014 at 12:39 pm

m.c.f.c. says:
January 22, 2014 at 11:59 am

Interesting points well made, a bit of a stretch to assume relegation from the EPL is a certainty ….. other factors to consider:

– Celtic could get a “bounce” in the initial weeks against unsuspecting opponents
– the games will be very open, as the cocky English push forward against the Scots
– Celtic actually play football on the deck and will get far more space going forward
– Celtic generally play below par in the SPFL as they know the result is more often in the bag , so using today’s performances as a guide may be mis-leading

Still it will not happen until European football goes kerplunk and I must admit I am ambivalent about any move.
==============================================================================
EKBhoy – I don’t mean to disrespect Celtic in any way – but the EPL is tough. You make some good points and they could be decisive – but if it was my team I’d prefer a slow burn approach to the shooting start gamble.

There is a strong trend of good Championship teams coming up and doing pretty well before Christmas then fading badly in the second half of the year. They often do worse in the second year [ref: Reading, Blackpool – where are they now ?]. There are also those that get promotion and are never on the pace. eg Derby, Wolves. I’d say analyzing these clubs and trends would not support the idea that a few CL games is a good guide to EPL success – or maybe Neil is thinking more about his next career step.

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