Reflections on Goalposts

ByDanish Pastry

Reflections on Goalposts

A recent autumn storm caused the destruction of the metal goal fame in our garden. The small goal with the weather-beaten net had fallen into disuse. But I liked it seeing it there on the grass. I suppose I half-expected, half-hoped, it would be used again. Once, it was a father and son thing and had been constructed carefully from a nice set of plans. At the time, it impressed both son and daughter no end. But that was then, this was now.

One of our trees, blown over by the recent high winds, caused the goal frame’s final demise. As I unscrewed the twisted metal I thought of the hours of innocent fun it had given us. It had been the scene of many goals and not a few great saves. My son, who is soon off to uni, smiled thoughtfully as I mentioned that this was the end of the ‘goalposts of childhood’. Perhaps he knew what I meant.

My own childhood goalposts had been ‘doon the back’. Drawn with chalk on the red brick of the ‘sausage wall’ at one end, and on part of the ‘wash hoose’ at the other. Many a league, Cup and international match was played out between those goals on the Dennistoun dirt. We once put on a parallel version of a historic England v Scotland match while the real match was being played at Wembley. Jim Mone sitting on one of the dykes had a transister radio to his ear. As we played our match he chalked up live score updates on the wall — our Twitter and FaceBook anno 1967. What a day.

We did use a pile of jackets up on the old Dennistoun cricket pitch, but only rarely. Mostly, we played on the red gravel surface at the Finlay Drive entrance. That pitch was fitted with real goalposts — like the ones they had at Hampden. Or so we imagined.

These sentimental memories of receding years accompanied my removal of the ruined metal goal frame. But, as you can imagine, it seemed an almost symbolic act. For fans of Scottish football the ‘goalposts’ that once defined the game of our football childhoods — have not only been moved, they’ve been been twisted and mis-shapen out of all recognition.

The past decades have seen a fundamental change in the way our game is run and governed, at home and abroad. Money is now king and sporting consideration is a luxury we sometimes have to put to one side — or at least, so we’re told.

At the risk of stating the obvious, sport, if it is to mean anything at all, has to be based on clearly defined rules and principles. These rules must be applied equally to all the participants, they are certainly not optional extras. However, to misquote and paraphrase George Orwell, ‘all teams are equal, but some teams are more equal than others’ — at least, when it comes to Scottish football.

The efforts by the SFA to re-interpret rules to fit the unfortunate circumstances surrounding the demise of Rangers FC in 2012 have left most of us scratching our heads. Much of the Scottish media has backed up the SFA’s efforts, something which has added to the general confusion and chaos. In fact, it’s become clear that the death of Rangers, as we knew them, has been such a traumatic event that it must be denied. The authorities and media seem to have been so besotted with one club that its loss is out of the question. And so, it’s been gifted a bizarre kind of immunity from liquidation and death that implies its on-going existence, long after it drew it’s final breath.

This situation has opened the door to a legion of businessmen on the make. They have been allowed to perpetuate the myth, with SFA blessing, that they ‘saved’ Rangers. And their unwavering message is, that they can only succeed if fans keep giving them their hard-earned cash. To those outside the blue bubble it looks like a huge con trick. If the only source of real money in football is the fans, then the Ibrox faithful have been royally fleeced.

How different it could have been if the former club had been allowed a dignified end. A year out of the game would probably have allowed fans to restart a newco of their own. They could have applied for entry into the professional leagues along with the other clubs waiting in line. Chances are they would have been given special dispensation, and walked straight into the bottom tier. Of course, they would have claimed to be the continuation of the spirit of the previous entity — but would anyone have argued against that? How different it could have been if the rules governing the game had been respected. The SFA may even have kept their dignity intact and the press not felt obliged to print half-truths, falsehoods and lies.

You’ve got to wonder why Dunfermline and Hearts fought so desperately to avoid liquidation. After all, the Scottish football authorities now seem intent on convincing us that liquidation has little or no effect on a football club. Even past sins, such as wrongly-registered players are as naught — if, at the time, they were thought to have been registered correctly. By this logic, we have to ask: if a ‘company’ running a ‘club’ bribes a referee, will retrospective action will be taken against the ‘club’. The players and the club, after all, will have done nothing wrong. And since the referee was not known to have been bribed, and not struck off, he was qualified to referee the match in question, at the time. Using the SFA thought process, the result would probably be allowed to stand. Personally, I’m not sure I follow SFA logic. They’ve ‘moved the goalposts’, and (you saw it coming) bent them into an unrecognisable shape.

Which brings me back to our garden. The old metal goal frame is waiting to be driven down to the local re-cycling centre. The twisted metal and worn-out net are useless. Ruined by forces beyond our control. There is no interest in a replacement at present. Perhaps, if we have grandchildren, they will show an interest in football. If they do, I’ll build a new set of goalposts. They’ll be straight and true, the way the goalposts of childhood should be. The way goalposts should always be.

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4,642 Comments so far

ecobhoyPosted on7:23 pm - Dec 29, 2013


Auldheid says: (1112)
December 29, 2013 at 4:42 pm

I’ve been thinking over the interpretation of player registrations and impact on eligibility following LNS ‘s decision..

If it is the SFA position that a player once registered by means that fail their registration rules is nevertheless eligible until the failure to follow the rules is discovered, then what steps are the SFA taking to strengthen their registration procedures to stop clubs at source paying players over and above what they tell the SFA and so avoiding the intent of the registration rules?

In effect what is the point of player registration rules if there is no sporting sanction as a consequence of avoiding them? That LNS Commission has a lot to answer for

Either Bryson/LNS is wrong or the SFA have to put additional processes in place that either require clubs to PROVE to the SFA that all payments have been disclosed or give the SFA powers to do spot checks on accounts payable at clubs and question any payments to players.

I appreciate this would be an extra layer of policing and not easy to implement, but having undermined the intent of the existing set of registration rules, it surely behoves the SFA to introduce additional checks since it has now been proved that in Scotland clubs (well a major one) are prepared to act dishonestly?

It is bad enough that the SFA twist rules to suit circumstances, but when they then fail to act on the consequences of their twisting, they prove themselves incompetent beyond belief and not fit to govern.
====================================================
I think you have a very valid point that following the Bryson Definition the SFA really does have to have a root and branch look at registration procedures and what constitites a breach of them and the penalties which should be applied to breaches. But at the core the SFA need to state exactly what registration procedures are designed to achieve as I have to confess that since ‘Bryson’ I am very unclear of their intent.

However, turning to your comment: ‘Either Bryson/LNS is wrong’ I think we have a duty not to cloud the issue in the way that the SFA and SMSM continually attempt. If we fail in correctly stating the facts then we do our case no good and encourage conspircay theorists to spout unsubstantiated drivel and the PR spinners to weave their webs of deceit and hide the truth.

The bottom line is that the investigation and presentation of the case against ‘Rangers’ at LNS was down to the SPL and their legal Counsel. The function of the three LNS tribunal members was to listen to that evidence as well as that presented by the defendants in the shape of ‘Rangers’ and come to a judgement on it.

Bryson by virtue of his SFA position was an expert witness on player registration. He gave evidence which basically blew the SPL case against Rangers out of the water in terms of removing titles.

There are a number of huge question marks over his evidence which remain unanswered and I am writing from memory here but I’m fairly sure I’ll get the gist right.

1) We don’t know if the SPL knew that Bryson was going to provide the ‘definition’ before he did at LNS.
2) If the SPL didn’t know then it means the preparatory work by the SPL was woeful. It seems inconceivable that the SPL didn’t ascertain the SFA position on the eligibility of the players concerned prior to the LNS hearing.
3) At the hearing the SPL Counsel accepted the Bryson definition and made no atempt to challenge it or provide alternative evidence.
4) If the definition had just been spung at the Hearing I would have expected the SPL Counsel to ask for an adjournment to discuss with the SPL what was a clear death-blow to their case. This doesn’t appear to have happened.
5) Bryson wasn’t even asked whether it was his personal opinion or was that of the SFA or even when the decision was first reached and the definition formulated. We don’t know whether it was ever discussed by Bryson with anyone else at the SFA let alone agreed by the SFA.

I think that covers the basics on the particualr issue. But we have to be clear that if an expert witness provides a definition which is accepted by all parties attending then those sitting in judgement cannot substitute their opinion and base their decision on that.

I have always felt that perhaps the SFA and SPL hoped that the three LNS members would have still found the players ineligible and removed the titles. But what would have happened was that rangers would have appealed and the LNS decision would have been overturned leaving them as villains of the peace and the SFA and SPL with ‘clean hands’ blaming legal trickery for preventing them doing the right thing.

Of course LNS and his colleagues were far too wily to fall for such a simplistic ploy and correctly – on the unchallenged evidence submitted – gave the only possible decision which was legally watertight. It was not their role to do the SFA and SPL dirty deeds for them and end-up covered in ordure.

At the end of the day the Bryson ‘Definition’ is a pile of hocus pocus and everyone knows that and another bit of SFA rule bending which is draped round their neck with numerous other lead lifebelts.

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Danish PastryPosted on7:24 pm - Dec 29, 2013


Auldheid says: (1113)
December 29, 2013 at 6:08 pm (Edit)
1 0 Rate This

Danish Pastry says: (1851)

December 29, 2013 at 5:56 pm

I was wondering what the situation was in Scandinavia. How does the season pan out? When does it begin and end and any breaks.
———–

The Danish Superliga last saw action on 6 December. Next matches will be on the weekend starting Friday 21 February. Of course, teams will be playing warm-up matches beforehand and the usual football chatter will begin as teams go off to Spain and Portugal for holidays, er, training camps 🙂

It’s not totally summer football though, since the 12-team league clubs play each other 3 x times during the season. The top six from the previous season get 17 home games and 16 away. The bottom six get 16 home and 17 away. The season ends at the beginning of June. They also award gold and silver medals to the second and third-placed teams. Nice. Superliga start-up this season was 19 July.

The Swedes, on the other hand, go straight through, from about 30 March to the start of November.. Perhaps the reason Borås (after their loss to Celtic) knocked out my local Danes for a spot in the UEFA League? They started this year at the beginning of March with Swedish Cup matches. February was spent playing friendlies.

Scotland would need to work out its own model, but the benefits of summer football are there to see.

PS I have not checked Norway or Finland, but can if anyone wants an insight

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Tif FinnPosted on7:29 pm - Dec 29, 2013


I’m afraid the notion of Rangers being given assistance to get to the top of Scottish football presupposes them surviving and making money.

I have yet to see the plan, any plan, which achieves that. I can’t even see the plan which achieves a break even business.

I have no doubt the Scottish footballing authorities will do everything they can to help, but will they actually give them the money they need.

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AuldheidPosted on8:30 pm - Dec 29, 2013


ecobhoy says: (2113)

December 29, 2013 at 7:23 pm

Yup. Something stinks about the whole affair including the withholding of vital evidence about the different types of ebts at play in terms of one type (DOS) being irregular according to HMRC, confirmed by a FTT/UTT and CoS and the other (Loan EBTs) going through the process of being determined as regular or irregular.

It is one thing to say that not registering payments that were lawful at the time of adjudicating was akin to poor administration/clerical error, but quite another to say that not registering payments that were unlawful at the time of adjudicating was a clerical error. Especially when the withheld evidence says the intent was deliberately negligent or fraudulent.

Kind of hard to reach a conclusion it was akin to poor administration/clerical error when the motive was crystal clear.

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justshateredPosted on8:40 pm - Dec 29, 2013


Tif Finn says: (1123)
December 29, 2013 at 7:29 pm

The point you make is valid and one that I have asked time and time again on this forum.
At the current rate of losses ‘The Rangers’ will be in debt to the tune of £25M-£30M by the time they finish their first season in the top league.
The media cling to this idea that once they return to the top league then it will be business as usual. That is a fantasy based on nothing more than utter desperation.
Who will fund a club losing an average of £10M a year?
This is a club that has no over draft or credit facilities and unless they have a share issue every year to cover their loses this ends the same way as it did for RFC way before they reach the top league.

No one is going to advance ticket sales after Ticketus were stung. No one is going to allow access to large sums of money without security over assets because that would defeat the ultimate goal of sale and lease back. There is no sugar daddy who is going to slush debt away from ‘The Rangers’ to another part of their business empire.
I would also suggest that the actual brand itself is toxic which in turn will affect sponsorship for a few years to come.

I’m no financial genius but the only thing that made this ‘journey’ feasible was the money being loaned to ‘The Rangers’ by RIFC to be secured against the assets and when the club arrived in the top league it would be sold to ‘Real Rangers men’ with a sale and lease back of assets as part of the agreement. The problem with that is that the burn rate is far too large for this to be achieved as the cash will run out before the top league is reached.

On a separate subject, about two months ago it was suggested that there was going to be a change to the rules to prevent a club in administration being promoted. Does anyone know if this rule was ever passed?

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Exiled CeltPosted on8:47 pm - Dec 29, 2013


Something strange in Twitterland – Allan McGregor (real account – not a pretend one!) all of a sudden is tweeting after a long absence……….

One of the big mysteries of this is why these players took the “traitor” labelling by Green and McCoist without any retort or correction from the players. Especially Naismith and McGregor.

He is challenging the theory that he walked away to line his own pockets – maybe Ally’s latest has got them al upset………

Allan McGregor ‏@therealgreegsy1 7h
If only yous knew, would love to tell the script , all these people saying yous left , walked away etc… Not got a scooby

Allan McGregor ‏@therealgreegsy1 7h
Would tell you but press scumbags all over this so can’t

Allan McGregor ‏@therealgreegsy1 6h
Right for a start, for those people that thought and still think I left to ‘line my pockets’ if yous are gambling people , for every penny I

Allan McGregor ‏@therealgreegsy1 6h
Earn more than I would have at rangers plus a a testimonial , for every penny I earn more I’ll give double to the club , and for every penny

Allan McGregor ‏@therealgreegsy1 6h
Less , for any takers, yous give me it?

Allan McGregor ‏@therealgreegsy1 6h
Penny I earn less yous give me it back? How’s that for a deal for people who think I left to ‘ line my pockets ‘?

Allan McGregor ‏@therealgreegsy1 6h
I earn more yous give me it? Any takers for those who think I left to ‘line my pockets’?

Edit to add – further conversation

Scott Caldwell ‏@codygers 7h
@therealgreegsy1 You left club for nothing, you could have transferred ?
That’s a knife in the back to supporters who stood by u many times!

Allan McGregor ‏@therealgreegsy1 6h
@codygers I could have transferred? Mr green did that without telling anyone!

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justshateredPosted on9:13 pm - Dec 29, 2013


Exiled Celt says: (877)
December 29, 2013 at 8:47 pm

Allan McGregor ‏@therealgreegsy1 6h
@codygers I could have transferred? Mr green did that without telling anyone!

Is he actually saying that Chas Green sold the players and pocketed the money?
That is a very serious accusation and probably easy to check via the SPL or SFA as to who held the players registration documentation at the time of his move.
Could it be the case that part of the five-way-agreement was the transfer of players registrations but under corporate law this was not legal?
If RFC refused to release the players registration documents how could their new clubs register them with their new FA?
When you consider the public utterances of Chas Green that he would take the players and their new clubs to court then how did the players manage to get registered in their new countries?
It sounds as if there was no way he would release the relevant documents so, I repeat, how did the players get registered?

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm the plot thickens.

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andygraham.66Posted on9:20 pm - Dec 29, 2013


Allan McGregor ‏@therealgreegsy1 7h
Would tell you but press scumbags all over this so can’t

That’s the interesting part for me

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taxman comethPosted on9:21 pm - Dec 29, 2013


justshatered says: (282)
December 29, 2013 at 9:13 pm
1 0 Rate This

Exiled Celt says: (877)
December 29, 2013 at 8:47 pm

Allan McGregor ‏@therealgreegsy1 6h
@codygers I could have transferred? Mr green did that without telling anyone!

Is he actually saying that Chas Green sold the players and pocketed the money?
That is a very serious accusation and probably easy to check via the SPL or SFA as to who held the players registration documentation at the time of his move.
Could it be the case that part of the five-way-agreement was the transfer of players registrations but under corporate law this was not legal?
If RFC refused to release the players registration documents how could their new clubs register them with their new FA?
When you consider the public utterances of Chas Green that he would take the players and their new clubs to court then how did the players manage to get registered in their new countries?
It sounds as if there was no way he would release the relevant documents so, I repeat, how did the players get registered?

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm the plot thickens.

======

I think he is talking about TUPE from TRFC to Sevco Scotland

Though how TUPE applies I don’t know on account of Green bought assets not the business

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FIFAPosted on9:23 pm - Dec 29, 2013


What would these clubs that signed these players have to hide if someone was to ask them the question. Was there any financial payments made for the signing of Size 9 Boots and who was this payed to.

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Tif FinnPosted on9:23 pm - Dec 29, 2013


What would the point be in selling a player’s registration without the player knowing.

a, You haven’t actually broken their contract so you need to keep paying them.

b, They don’t have to sign a contract with the new club so the registration is worthless.

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taxman comethPosted on9:33 pm - Dec 29, 2013


Tif Finn says: (1124)
December 29, 2013 at 9:23 pm
0 0 Rate This

What would the point be in selling a player’s registration without the player knowing.

a, You haven’t actually broken their contract so you need to keep paying them.

b, They don’t have to sign a contract with the new club so the registration is worthless.

=====

Contract broken when ceased to be a club registration reverts automatically to SFA

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auchinstarryPosted on9:41 pm - Dec 29, 2013


Oh dear, its beginning to look like Charles was actually lying! Did he sell the players, who would have been classed as assets, pocket the dosh, possibly via several bank accounts , make sure the players got a sweetener or a John Brown style threat (or both).
The permutations of it are multiple, a bit like Charlie’s tongues.

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BrendaPosted on9:41 pm - Dec 29, 2013


andygraham.66 @ 9.20pm

Me too? Is he implying that the situation may not be reported in an honest, factual way?? Surely not 😉

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taxman comethPosted on9:48 pm - Dec 29, 2013


auchinstarry says: (127)
December 29, 2013 at 9:41 pm
1 1 Rate This

Oh dear, its beginning to look like Charles was actually lying! Did he sell the players, who would have been classed as assets, pocket the dosh, possibly via several bank accounts , make sure the players got a sweetener or a John Brown style threat (or both).
The permutations of it are multiple, a bit like Charlie’s tongues.

======

Don’t think that would have been possible he never “bought/owned” the players is the first place

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Tif FinnPosted on9:53 pm - Dec 29, 2013


Exactly, the contract was effectively broken when the CVA failed and the club was being liquidated. How can the club hold a players contract when it doesn’t really exist anymore.

The registration then reverts to the national association.

The player is a free agent and gets a contract with whoever he wants, the registration then goes to that club. Who can buy it and sell it as normal from then on.

All the rubbish Green came away with regarding TUPE etc was just that, rubbish. It is entirely a matter for the employee whether they want to take a contract with a new employer. If they do they are entitled to the same terms and conditions.

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Tif FinnPosted on9:55 pm - Dec 29, 2013


You can’t buy and sell players, they are human beings.

You can trade their football registrations, but that is worthless if the player does not agree a contract with the new club, and the old one needs to honour their existing contract.

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scottcPosted on10:05 pm - Dec 29, 2013


taxman cometh says: (116)
December 29, 2013 at 9:21 pm
2 0 Rate This

======

I think he is talking about TUPE from TRFC to Sevco Scotland

Though how TUPE applies I don’t know on account of Green bought assets not the business

It’s Transfer of Undertakings though, not transfer of business. TUPE applies even if you outsource parts of your business to another company or spin off a new company from your own.

TUPE had to apply because CG wanted to run a football club. Without TUPE he would have been unable to even imagine that it was the same team

I think CG may well have made things very difficult for the higher paid players though, kind of backed them into a corner maybe. I can’t imagine he sold them secretly. That would not work as mentioned above

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Galling fiverPosted on10:11 pm - Dec 29, 2013


I’d be disappointed if Charlie and the boys didn’t wangle a few shekels in negotiating players away from mordor.

Was the goalie naw one of those handed a belter of a deal by our hero.

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FIFAPosted on10:37 pm - Dec 29, 2013


Surely Campbell and crew would have questioned the activities regards the movement of the players involved and made sure everything was above board ,surely,I mean the where all over the club’s affairs like a rash,wheren’t they?

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ecobhoyPosted on11:24 pm - Dec 29, 2013


Perhaps what happened was that Green being Green had already arranged to sell players assuming they would transfer to Sevco. When they didn’t and exercised their right under Tupe to walk away from their contract he had a problem.

He would obviously have been well teed-off when they decided to walk and would have tried to persuade them to follow his plan possibly with a cut of the deal and when that didn’t work he would go to the bluster and threat stage.

But his problem is by that time the walkaway players would be aware of what he was up to so it was really a bit of a stalemate because they could go public and spill the beans. That they didn’t at the time says a lot for their dedication to Rangers as they knew that the story would cause chaos with the fans and wreck ST sales.

So it all cooled a bit anyway and it looks as though blabber-mouth McCoist has reignited the issue and the walkaways have decided to fire a warning shot.

Thinking back to the contracts the walkaways signed with their new clubs didn’t some of the clubs make payments at the time to Rangers/Green that they didn’t need to with the excuse it was just to prevent delay in transferring registrations. It might even be the case that some of the players went to clubs that Green originally had a deal with which suited the players as well.

Knowing what I do about Green that wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest – but it opens up a whole new ball game and I reckon the new Board or at least JI will quickle tag Allie as the harbinger of the latest doom to land on Ibrox.

Gawd who would want to be a Bear they have well and truly fcuked from every direction.

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Tif FinnPosted on11:31 pm - Dec 29, 2013


I agree that is entirely possible.

However I think it was Alan McGregor who was tweeting and caused this latest conjecture.

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ecobhoyPosted on12:03 am - Dec 30, 2013


Tif Finn says: (1127)
December 29, 2013 at 11:31 pm

I agree that is entirely possible. However I think it was Alan McGregor who was tweeting and caused this latest conjecture.
========================================================
It was greegsy that was tweeting but it follows Allie’s latest dig at the walkaways which could quite easily have got under mcgreegor’s skin. Having watched Allie squirm and slide all over SS Dignity depending on what tack it is taking I have no doubt that Green would have been using him to try and whip the ‘walkaways’ into line.

We have always known that if they had stayed they would have been sold by Green for whatever he could get as money was very very tight at the time and remained so right up until the flotation cash arrived at the end of December 2012.

And here we are with the end of December upon us yet again and this time there isn’t a £22.5 million pot of gold sitting under a Blue Moon over Ibrox. Hope they collected a lot of tips from the homeless about how to survive when you end-up out on the streets with no dosh, no home and nobody wants to know you anymore.

Things must be getting desperate with virtually zilch substantial income prior to April at the earliest. Something is going to have to happen or give 😯

Was wondering if they have some of their lower paid players out on loan – especially MP graduates – and they go into admin I wonder if that lets them ditch the expensive players but allows the on-loan ones to come back still under contract. If there is such a loophole then the spivs will know about it that’s for sure.

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Tif FinnPosted on12:09 am - Dec 30, 2013


A proper administration would clear out the high paid players as it’s first priority, to reduce ongoing costs. I spoke to an insolvency practitioner when the previous club went into administration and he could not believe that it hadn’t happened. It is standard practice.

Rangers went the other way if I remember correctly, not only did they keep all the high paid players, they actually tried to bring a striker in. Though to be fair they would have needed them, what with them staying in the SPL, but being debt free.

It was contrived from the insolvency starting to Green buying the assets. Everything they did assumed the club being in the SPL, with the same turnover etc. All that was supposed to happen was the debt being shed and everything else carrying on as before, with everyone else shafted.

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Paulmac2Posted on12:27 am - Dec 30, 2013


The players who left at the time…all lodged an objection to being TUPED across…with the clubs they signed for listed below…

Steve Davis – Southampton
Allan McGregor – Besiktas (Now at Hull)
Jamie Ness – Stoke City (Took out a constructive dismissal claim)
Kyle Lafferty – FC Sion ( Now at Palermo) (Took out a constructive dismissal claim)
Rhys McCabe – Sheffield Wednesday
Sone Aluko – Hull (Took out a constructive dismissal claim)
Steven Whittaker – Norwich
Steven Naismith – Everton
John Fleck – Coventry City

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tilhotdogsbarkPosted on12:29 am - Dec 30, 2013


ecobhoy says: (2115)
December 30, 2013 at 12:03 am

Your suggestion that McCoist may have been instrumental in ensuring the “walkaways” happened may not be too far off the mark, and would explain McGregor’s reaction and some of his comments on Twitter. McCoist does not earn his salary for what he provides as a football manager, his value lies and is applied in other areas.

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Tif FinnPosted on12:34 am - Dec 30, 2013


Is that the full £50m worth that walked away or were there others.

The figure does seem a tad inflated if that was it.

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GeronimosCadillacPosted on12:37 am - Dec 30, 2013


Tif Finn says: (1128)
December 30, 2013 at 12:09 am

It was contrived from the insolvency starting to Green buying the assets. Everything they did assumed the club being in the SPL, with the same turnover etc. All that was supposed to happen was the debt being shed and everything else carrying on as before, with everyone else shafted.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Many on here talk about Rangers not being punished enough and LNS/SFA etc being bent and protecting them. When they do they overlook the victory that was achieved by the groundwork of RTC and the fans direct action in the summer of 2012 which meant Newgers were punted to the Third Division. There was some semblance of justice in all this.

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Tif FinnPosted on12:45 am - Dec 30, 2013


The new club was not punted to the third division.

The football authorities cheated to get them into the fourth tier of Scottish senior football when they had no right to be there and other clubs had a better claim to the vacant place. .

The achievement of the fans was to stop them cheating the new club into the SPL or SFL1. That, along with HMRC forcing administration and rejecting the CVA were the really important moments in the old club dying and the new one being denied what they had expected.

The new club has never recovered from that, as the whole business plan was based on an entirely different scenario.

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Paulmac2Posted on12:51 am - Dec 30, 2013


I can find no official confirmation of a fee being paid by any club for the free agents listed above…

Of the above player Davis had just signed a new contract in the previous 12 months as well as McGregor and Whittaker who signed new and vastly increased new contracts…

The players where due to resume to their normal salaries (after the agreed administration deffered reduction) within 3 weeks of their objections being registered..

2 players refused to agree to the defferment and left the club..

Greg Wylde
Wylde volunteered to have his contract terminated and to waive the redundancy payment he would have been entitled to when Rangers went into administration in early 2012. He said this was to try and help other members of staff keep their jobs at the club.

Mervin Celik
GAIS claimed that Rangers owed them £240,000 compensation for the transfer of Celik. However, there were suggestions that Celik was not offered a new contract within 60 days before the end of his previous deal, meaning that no compensation would have been necessary. Both GAIS and Celik disputed this and the club have threatened to take the matter to FIFA if Rangers don’t pay them.

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Paulmac2Posted on1:03 am - Dec 30, 2013


GeronimosCadillac says: (155)
December 30, 2013 at 12:37 am
……………………………

Indeed they were not punted…Rangers fc (IL) were still members of the SPL when SEVCO ltd applied for membership of the SPL and were rejected (Rangers fc being allowed to vote on SEVCO’s entry)…SEVCO then applied for membership of the SFL and were accepted and given entry into Division 3 (lowest tier) even though they did not meet the criteria for entry.

I’m afraid I do not see any administered justice for the industrial level of cheating and corruption committed by Rangers FC (IL) …whilst their cheating and corruption was supported, encouraged and engineered by the SCOTTISH FOOTBALL ASSOCIATION!

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Partizani TiranaPosted on1:04 am - Dec 30, 2013


I’ve long wondered why Southampton paid a transfer fee for Davis. A figure of £800,000 was mentioned and supposedly it was to ensure The Rangers didn’t contest his international registration.
But it was totally unnecessary. Norwich, Everton etc didn’t pay.
Some things in this saga we will never figure out. There could have been totally unrelated business dealings between Green and his backers and Cortese the Southampton chief executive. And it could just have been a favour being paid back.
But there doesn’t seem to be an obvious explanation for splashing £0.8million for no reason.

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John ClarkPosted on1:04 am - Dec 30, 2013


tilhotdogsbark says: (21)
December 30, 2013 at 12:29 am
‘….his value lies and is applied in other areas…’
——-
Oh, for some decent punctuation!
Did you mean ” ..his value? Lies!..” 😉

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tilhotdogsbarkPosted on1:11 am - Dec 30, 2013


john clarke says: (1470)
December 30, 2013 at 1:04 am

Funnily enough I did notice that myself, forgive the pun.

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GeronimosCadillacPosted on1:32 am - Dec 30, 2013


Tif Finn says: (1130)
December 30, 2013 at 12:45 am
The new club was not punted to the third division.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I know that should I have said “given a punt up to the 3rd Division” – Clearly I’m using the wrong terminology.

The football authorities cheated to get them into the fourth tier of Scottish senior football when they had no right to be there and other clubs had a better claim to the vacant place. .
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
We all know that
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The achievement of the fans was to stop them cheating the new club into the SPL or SFL1. That, along with HMRC forcing administration and rejecting the CVA were the really important moments in the old club dying and the new one being denied what they had expected.

The new club has never recovered from that, as the whole business plan was based on an entirely different scenario.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Which is what I said.

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FisianiPosted on1:35 am - Dec 30, 2013


OK For a decade Rangers cheated by means of financial doping and improper player registrations. No penalty was or has actually ever been imposed for this. The expulsion of Rangers from the SPL was for other reasons. A new The Rangers are spending more on their playing staff than the combined wage bill of every other team in their league. The coach earns more than all the Div 1 coaches combined. They are losing 38,000 pounds a day. They have no credit facilities. No Ticketus money. They rely on mugs to buy season tickets, thinking they are funds for the club but instead are straight to the holding company and will then firstly line the pockets of the named and nameless spivs.
The SFA do not want to expose the wrongdoings. That would show dereliction of duty, The media are relatively silent. That would show dereliction of duty. The AIM sharemarket authorities are being kept in the dark.
Some time in 2014 there will be a gathering of hacks at the doors of Ibrox to hear news of Admin 2.
It is only a matter of when.
Will they try to trade whilst insolvent? You bet they will. Will they try to hide the truth from investors? You bet they will . The crash, when it comes, will “come out of the blue”
Will they finally die again. Sadly no. They will arise like a Zombie and peddle their sectarian bile in 2014 and beyond. I despair.

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GeronimosCadillacPosted on1:36 am - Dec 30, 2013


Tif Finn says: (1130)
December 29, 2013 at 11:31 pm
I agree that is entirely possible.

However I think it was Alan McGregor who was tweeting and caused this latest conjecture.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Conjecture? By that do you mean wild eyed theories made up to make an already ridiculous situation even worse. Sometimes I wonder if that isn’t actually the purpose of posts like that.

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John ClarkPosted on1:46 am - Dec 30, 2013


Paulmac2 says: (828)
December 30, 2013 at 1:03 am
—–
And that’s it, in a nutshell, Paulmac2.

And you’ve nicely summarised the core points that have brought thousands of us together.

We repeat that the cheating of a’ Knight of the realm’ -bad and all as it was- is as nothing compared to the dereliction of duty on the part of the SFA.

THAT Murray ( God! Why are so many of these guys called Murray?) is yesterday’s man- a man worthy only of contempt and scorn, a man without an honourable gene in his DNA, who played the MSM for suckers and bought them cheaply with some succulent lamb and the odd free holiday, a man of the Rupert Murdoch type etc etc .

But there are members of the SFA board( perhaps by a process of osmosis, being so near to him) who are worse.

SDM has at least the defence that he was, however unsuccessfully, ‘looking after’ his businesss.He had no overarching ‘duty’ to maintain the integrity of sport, or fair play, or even sporting decency. We all know his attitude to clubs that owed him money. And it was not merciful and accommodating!

As for the the Football Authorities, they have absolutely NO defence against the charge of failing to look after the interests of sporting integrity ( or, indeed, their personal integrity!).

I have to keep saying, this is not about a cheating club: it is about cheatery at the very heart of our sport.

The cheating club is already clinically dead.

But the men who are supposed to run the sport of football in this country , who have already demonstrated their sympathy for cheats and liars, are still in office and utterly committed to the defence of lies and liars and the abandonment of any kind of moral principle when it comes to exercising their functions ( witness Dougie McDonald’s nice wee welcome back into the SFA)

We really must get these men out, or their pernicious mephitic miasma will choke us and Scottish Football to death.

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Partizani TiranaPosted on1:49 am - Dec 30, 2013


Steve Davis – Southampton
Allan McGregor – Besiktas (Now at Hull)
Jamie Ness – Stoke City (Took out a constructive dismissal claim)
Kyle Lafferty – FC Sion ( Now at Palermo) (Took out a constructive dismissal claim)
Rhys McCabe – Sheffield Wednesday
Sone Aluko – Hull (Took out a constructive dismissal claim)
Steven Whittaker – Norwich
Steven Naismith – Everton
John Fleck – Coventry City
—–
Just for fun to compare McCoists claim of £50million worth of player leaving, what do people think these players were worth at the time? I’m thinking of their value if RFC werent about to die and clubs didnt take advantage of that. Aluko didnt have a contract, but for the purposes of this wee exercise let’s assume there was no contract pressures either. So being overly generous:
Davis, bought for £3m and in his prime, so £3m seems fair.
MacGregor, difficult one. later cost Hull £1.2m, but lets say £3m
Ness, only played 5 games in 2011-12. Permanently injured. Hard to see anyone paying a fee. But in xmas spirit £250.000
Lafferty, RFC paid just over £3m and were well and truly robbed. £1.5m tops
McCabe, played 9 games. Jeez it’s hard to justify, but £250.00
Aluko, wasnt under contract, but if he was £1.5m
Whittaker, cost £2m from Hibs. Awful player. Maybe £3m? (with all the caveats above)
Naismith, there best player, often badly injured. £4m?
Fleck, never fulfilled early promise. Loan spells to championship. £1m?
—-
So I make that £17.5m at the stretchiest of stretches, IF Rangers or The Rangers didnt have to sell, IF other clubs didn;t know they could bid low, and if no-one was coming to end of contract.

Anyone want to have a go at estimating what they could have been sold for in a fire sale? Going with Davis; £800,000 I reckon somewhere near £5m.

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John ClarkPosted on1:56 am - Dec 30, 2013


tilhotdogsbark says: (22)
December 30, 2013 at 1:11 am
‘… forgive the pun.’
——-
No, forgive me. I saw what you did, and it was clever.I thought to add to it.

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Exiled CeltPosted on2:03 am - Dec 30, 2013


Few points on some of the items above

(1) Southampton never paid 800K for Davies – my source is a friend who is high up on the Southampton supporters assoc – I posted on RTC that the info he gave me was that Southampton gave 800K to English FA to hold for them in case the TRFC/SFA threats merited anything. After much gnashing of teeth, Southampton then settled for a much smaller amount (my mate was told between 10 and 15K) to make TRFC/SFA go away and let Davis concentrate on his up coming season. My mate told me that this was all within their transfer budget figures.

(2) McGregor is IMO confirming what Naismith was already stating a year ago – that Charles did not follow the TUPE guidelines and attempted to proceed their transfers to TRFC from RFC without talking to them.

(3) Remember too that SFA sided with TRFC and so made sure all players had to leave Scotland! So much for looking after interests of the local game! So rather than enable some of the players to remain in Scotland – especially the younger players – the SFA by siding with TRFC chose to force the players to go to 2nd and 3rd tier English teams rather than TUPE over.

(4) McCoist was very much in the “don’t let them darken our doorstep again” school – this from the guy who had lost the respect of the dressing room – and was left to Naismith to lead the players to have a wage reduction. How it must grate the money he has made and yet continues to throw the insults at them!

(5) Fraser Wishart has been very quiet on the action they took on behalf of the players against TRFC – and as usual has been on Radio Clyde attempting to restate the new clumpany myth even though he and his lawyers for the Players Union know it is a complete fairy tale – yet the players who paid a lot of union dues were allowed to be disparaged by spivs and an over paid manager.

(6) Barrie MacKay has gone on loan to Morton for 1 month yesterday – according to RM he was one of the few good youngsters – another strange move! Why 1 month?

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GeronimosCadillacPosted on2:04 am - Dec 30, 2013


ohn clarke says: (1471)
December 30, 2013 at 1:46 amr 3

But the men who are supposed to run the sport of football in this country , who have already demonstrated their sympathy for cheats and liars, are still in office and utterly committed to the defence of lies and liars and the abandonment of any kind of moral principle when it comes to exercising their functions ( witness Dougie McDonald’s nice wee welcome back into the SFA)

We really must get these men out, or their pernicious mephitic miasma will choke us and Scottish Football to death.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The bureaucrats (paid Rangers placemen) like CO etc can be removed by the SFA Board. There are Celtic men and others on that Board why has nothing happened?

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GeronimosCadillacPosted on2:13 am - Dec 30, 2013


Exiled Celt says: (878)
December 30, 2013 at 2:03 am
Few points on some of the items above

(2) McGregor is IMO confirming what Naismith was already stating a year ago – that Charles did not follow the TUPE guidelines and attempted to proceed their transfers to TRFC from RFC without talking to them.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I think Naismith said something like that at the time.

(3) Remember too that SFA sided with TRFC and so made sure all players had to leave Scotland! So much for looking after interests of the local game! So rather than enable some of the players to remain in Scotland – especially the younger players – to remain in Scotland they chose to force them to go to 2nd and 3rd tier English teams.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I need to understand this a bit more – what did the SFA do to make this happen?

(4) McCoist was very much in the “don’t let them darken our doorstep again” school – this from the guy who had lost the respect of the dressing room – and was left to Naismith to lead the players to have a wage reduction. How it must grate the money he has made and yet continues to throw the insults at them!
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I think Alistair has lost a lot of respect of the fans and possibly the Spivs and gangsters too judging from the amount of phone in abuse he’s getting these days.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

(5) Fraser Wishart has been very quiet on the action they took on behalf of the players against TRFC – and as usual has been on Radio Clyde attempting to restate the new clumpany myth even though he and his lawyers for the Players Union know it is a complete fairy tale – yet the players who paid a lot of union dues were allowed to be disparaged by spivs and an over paid manager.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Fraser is doing a good job. He represents his members well.

(6) Barrie MacKay has gone on loan to Morton for 1 month yesterday – according to RM he was one of the few good youngsters – another strange move! Why 1 month?
_________________________________________________________________

Because The Ton can’t pay any more than that?

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Partizani TiranaPosted on2:19 am - Dec 30, 2013


Exiled Celt says: (878)
December 30, 2013 at 2:03 am
—————-
Good post. As I said the £800,000 fee made no sense to me at all. But that’s what comes up with a cursory search. You’re figures are much more realistic/believable.
And I,m sure there was lots of comments on RTC at the time that Greene MUST have known TUPE regulations but for some reason choose to try to steamroller everything. Perhaps simply he was told he could get away with it.

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Exiled CeltPosted on3:14 am - Dec 30, 2013


Geronimo – they effectively refused to give them the transfer until it was resolved – but others like English or Turkish FA were ok – therefore if the players wanted a club, they needed to find a FA that would transfer their registration. SFA refused to as per their own website announcement below

This meant players like Wylde, Fleck who could have gone to Aberdeen or Hibs etc could not do so.

http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/scottish_fa_news.cfm?page=1961&newsCategoryID=3&newsID=10204

Why have the Scottish FA blocked the transfer of Rangers players to other clubs?

The Scottish FA issued a guidance note, based on legal advice and without prejudice, to both Rangers FC and PFA Scotland. Certain players have now chosen not to transfer across under TUPE regulations and, instead, agreed contracts elsewhere.

On a procedural basis, the Scottish FA cannot process an International Transfer Certificate via FIFA’s Transfer Management System where there is an ongoing contractual dispute.

Rangers FC have confirmed that there is such a contractual dispute. In the meantime, the new club(s) can request a temporary transfer from FIFA in order that the player(s) is free to play while the dispute process unfolds. This process has commenced in relation to a number of the players in question.

At the request of one of the parties in dispute, the Scottish FA, through its Articles, can convene an Arbitration Panel, with either side selecting from a list of Panel members, with the two appointees subsequently selecting a Chair of the panel. Rangers FC have made such a request to the Scottish FA.

We would naturally seek an outcome as soon as possible.

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Bryce CurdyPosted on8:04 am - Dec 30, 2013


Davie Provan’s latest in The Sun really is an all time low. I’m not going to post a link. Hugely depressing reading.

The question he should be asking is why we are the only country in the world which openly mocks the very concept of sporting integrity as if fairness and a level playing field are somehow ridiculous notions.

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Exiled CeltPosted on9:00 am - Dec 30, 2013


Geronimo – the reason I was questioning the month loan for Barrie MacKay was that normally people are sent on 6 month or season long loans – this one will mean not only will it only be for a month where he won’t be able to settle in but the month also ensures he is tied up during the January transfer window and would return afterwards.

Means they have someone to come back to replace someone going to be sold…………

I am positive Morton can afford him for longer and that this is not the reason for the month loan – especially since nowadays the lending clubs don’t expect the wages to be all paid by the loaner – for example its highly debatable that Bocanegra’s 15K a week was paid 100% by a Spanish 2nd division club. Does not make any sense for anyone to have a player for 4 weeks and expect him to blend in and play a part in a team when he has never played there with the club before.

More likely he is being offloaded for a month to save money then return after the transfer window to replace someone sold, IMO.

Greenock Jack must be chuffed that a club from a lower division loans one of its starlets to a club higher up the league structure – does not happen often!

Maybe the cost cutting has begun already……….

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Kilgore TroutPosted on9:04 am - Dec 30, 2013


Good Morning TSFM.
Way off topic but I’d just like to put on record the fact that I received no less than 12 pairs of socks this Christmas! I challenge anyone to beat that.

Anyway.
Bryce Curdy.
I don’t think you should criticise Mr Provan. Freedom of speech and all that.
He has as much right as any of us to express whatever opinion he has been told to.

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Exiled CeltPosted on9:04 am - Dec 30, 2013


Final comment on your reply Geronimo – from the TDs I can only assume its to do with your statement that Fraser Wishart is doing a fine job.

I have to be honest and admit that I gave you a TU assuming you were being sarcastic……….

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ConcallenPosted on9:13 am - Dec 30, 2013


Been away over the festive season so I am catching up here.
Has anyone in the MSM pointed out that McCoist managed to throw away a 15 point lead in the SPL with a £50+ million pound squad.

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tomtomPosted on9:17 am - Dec 30, 2013


Kilgore Trout says: (104)
December 30, 2013 at 9:04 am
2 0 Rate This

Good Morning TSFM.
Way off topic but I’d just like to put on record the fact that I received no less than 12 pairs of socks this Christmas! I challenge anyone to beat that.

Anyway.
Bryce Curdy.
I don’t think you should criticise Mr Provan. Freedom of speech and all that.
He has as much right as any of us to express whatever opinion he has been told to.
===========================================

Freedom of speech is a fine sentiment. However, given that Provan is a paid employee of an organisation that stands to benefit from the return of RFC to the top table his comments should quite rightly be viewed with suspicion and perhaps contempt.

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Kilgore TroutPosted on9:43 am - Dec 30, 2013


tomtom @ 9:17am

Believe me, I share your contempt.
I have just worded it rather clumsily (or too smartarsedly!).

I should have said
“He has as much right as any of us to express whatever opinion he has been told to hold.”

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buddy_hollyPosted on10:01 am - Dec 30, 2013


Exiled Celt says: (881)
December 30, 2013 at 3:14 am
7 0 Rate This

Geronimo – they effectively refused to give them the transfer until it was resolved – but others like English or Turkish FA were ok – therefore if the players wanted a club, they needed to find a FA that would transfer their registration. SFA refused to as per their own website announcement below

This meant players like Wylde, Fleck who could have gone to Aberdeen or Hibs etc could not do so.

http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/scottish_fa_news.cfm?page=1961&newsCategoryID=3&newsID=10204

Why have the Scottish FA blocked the transfer of Rangers players to other clubs?

The Scottish FA issued a guidance note, based on legal advice and without prejudice, to both Rangers FC and PFA Scotland. Certain players have now chosen not to transfer across under TUPE regulations and, instead, agreed contracts elsewhere.

On a procedural basis, the Scottish FA cannot process an International Transfer Certificate via FIFA’s Transfer Management System where there is an ongoing contractual dispute.

Rangers FC have confirmed that there is such a contractual dispute. In the meantime, the new club(s) can request a temporary transfer from FIFA in order that the player(s) is free to play while the dispute process unfolds. This process has commenced in relation to a number of the players in question.

At the request of one of the parties in dispute, the Scottish FA, through its Articles, can convene an Arbitration Panel, with either side selecting from a list of Panel members, with the two appointees subsequently selecting a Chair of the panel. Rangers FC have made such a request to the Scottish FA.

We would naturally seek an outcome as soon as possible.

So, 18 months later…..

What exactly did that arbitration panel decide…. ?

No statement by SFA, PFA scotland, SEVCOTRFC ?

So, it would be generally correct to assume that either
1. SEVCO/TRFC backed down… no press release by TRFC/SEVCO.
2. The arbitration panel decided in favour of the players… … no press release by PFA Scotland.

Either way no press release from the SFA.

Once again, in all likelihood the arbritration panel decided in favour of PFA scotland, TRFC/SEVCO did not publicise they are a new club, PFA scotland decided not to embarass SEVCO/TRFC (maybe on its members request, as they quietly walked away!), SFA acting in the best interests of TRFC/SEVCO said nothing in order to spare TRFC/SEVCO blushes.

Buddy

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SmugasPosted on10:05 am - Dec 30, 2013


Without even bothering to read what Mr Provan has been told to say I would comment that for a diddy supporter that is probably the legacy of this whole shambolic clusterbuck (that and the face painter’s pension being blown). The basic assumption that assisting the old firm as was, was in some way, never publicly to be defined, to be assisting the whole of Scottish Football has now very firmly, like a Craig Paterson clearance, been shot ‘oot ra park!’

To be clear I say Old Firm in so far as CFC with their massive supporter base was being carried along on the wave – whether that was by design or by some sort of by-product of an establishment masterplan is frankly irrelevant to me, personally.

Why else would it be better to have a club requiring a £10m annual public subsidy in the interests of competition.

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buddy_hollyPosted on10:07 am - Dec 30, 2013


In fairness….

On the loaning of TRFC players, maybe because Billy McKAy has made 2 aearances in 2013-2014, maybe he needs match sharpness.

Critically….

If I was about to sell/sack/loan out TRFCs most highly paid players, it would be sensible to bring your replacements up to match fitness toreduce the ire from the SEVCO fans when losing 1–0 to brechin on 1st of february .

Buddy

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campsiejoePosted on10:11 am - Dec 30, 2013


It would appear that the MSM, egged on by the Dog Whistler, are in the process of mounting another campaign to convince us of the absolute necessity to have TRFC in the top division
Not only to have them in the top division, but to be competitive, challenging Celtic, and playing in the CL

So why is this campaign underway ?
Are they warning the new CEO that cost cutting won’t be tolerated, or do they know that there is bad news coming for the fledgling club ?
Are they trying to make sure that everyone who has any influence will step up to the plate, and deliver to Sevconians, the status that they feel is their right
Time, no doubt, will tell, but in the meantime don’t take your eyes off of any of them

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buddy_hollyPosted on10:13 am - Dec 30, 2013


Auldheid says: (1114)
December 29, 2013 at 8:30 pm
38 0 Rate This

ecobhoy says: (2113)

December 29, 2013 at 7:23 pm

Yup. Something stinks about the whole affair including the withholding of vital evidence about the different types of ebts at play in terms of one type (DOS) being irregular according to HMRC, confirmed by a FTT/UTT and CoS and the other (Loan EBTs) going through the process of being determined as regular or irregular.

It is one thing to say that not registering payments that were lawful at the time of adjudicating was akin to poor administration/clerical error, but quite another to say that not registering payments that were unlawful at the time of adjudicating was a clerical error. Especially when the withheld evidence says the intent was deliberately negligent or fraudulent.

Kind of hard to reach a conclusion it was akin to poor administration/clerical error when the motive was crystal clear.

Auldhed & ecobhoy, Superb analysis by both of you.

Would it be clever / logical to hypothetically do the following….

A football club to place an ineligible player on its bench in for instance a Scottish Cup tie and then when winning 4-0 bring him on for the final few seconds or even leave him on the bench.

Thus triggering a rule breach and a proper debate on the “no sporting advantage” LNS decision at the disciplinary hearing, subsequent appeals?

Just a thought?

Do you conceive of another way to flush the bryson interpretation into the open??

Buddy

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Paulmac2Posted on10:15 am - Dec 30, 2013


Here is what Fraser Wishart stated at the time…

In a statement tonight on the SPFA website Wishart revealed: “Should the Players wish to transfer across to the newco, TUPE ensures that they do so on their existing contractual terms.

“Equally TUPE affords every employee the statutory right to object to the transfer; employers cannot select which parts of TUPE they wish to apply.

“If a Player wishes to object to being transferred his contract of employment would immediately come to an end leaving him with no contract, no dismissal and no right to compensation from either oldco or newco.

“Both the Club and the Player are then free from their contractual obligations.”

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Paulmac2Posted on10:18 am - Dec 30, 2013


Clearly something has niggled McGregor….and clearly he is inferring there is a truth to be told that has been hidden from the public domain….

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SmugasPosted on10:26 am - Dec 30, 2013


Paulmac2

That McGregor thinks there’s only one truth been hidden tells me all I need to know!

“The press are all over it” Aye, and smothering it for all they’re worth.

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cosmichaggisPosted on10:30 am - Dec 30, 2013


campsiejoe says: (619)
So why is this campaign underway ?
=====================================================
I’ve noticed lately that there has been a very concerted campaign about Newco being placed back into the top flight. I’ve seen and heard this everywhere – BBC websites, Talksport, Red top news rags to sadly supposed quality National newspapers. Something big and really stinky is on it’s way, nor just for the club down Govan way but for Scottish football. We are being fed the same line as when the club died back in the summer of 2011 – The “How COULD you put Rangers down the leagues” mantra, along with the boring “it has destroyed Scottish Football”. I don’t think it is to warn the new CEO, it’s to gurner more outrage when the establishment club goes under again.

It is interesting that Fat Salary has chosen this moment to bring up the subject of the top players departing – a warning shot for his players presently at Ibrox, perhaps in lieu of the impending crash.

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Tif FinnPosted on10:36 am - Dec 30, 2013


They realise that, particularly with budget cuts and possibly big ones, it is not certain that Rangers will win the Championship at the first time of asking.

They struggled against Falkirk with their current squad and there may well be a couple of teams at that level in the Championship next season.

Rangers not getting into the Premiership at the first opportunity is simply not acceptable to certain people, so the groundwork is being done for further cheating if required.

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BrendaPosted on10:52 am - Dec 30, 2013


By hinting at the truth being covered up, does greegsy now realise what a rotten to the core organisation he was involved in 😉 someone, somewhere will surely tell the truth and shame the devil though I doubt it will be In my lifetime 😥 Regan, Doncaster and RC Campbell have been very quiet and ally’s statements are a bit desperate 😆 I say go on bears keep pouring your money into the sevco boards pockets, roll on the UTT decision and the planned health and safety check on the asbestosdome :mrgreen: away on holiday for a few days, but will check in when I can, keep up the good work guys and best wishes for 2014 😆

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EstebanPosted on11:20 am - Dec 30, 2013


buddy_holly says: (130)
December 30, 2013 at 10:07 am

In fairness…. On the loaning of TRFC players, maybe because Billy McKAy has made 2 aearances in 2013-2014, maybe he needs match sharpness. If I was about to sell/sack/loan out TRFCs most highly paid players, it would be sensible to bring your replacements up to match fitness toreduce the ire from the SEVCO fans when losing 1–0 to brechin on 1st of february .

An easier way would be for them just to put the guy in their own team for the games they have in the run-up to February 1.

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ecobhoyPosted on11:33 am - Dec 30, 2013


Exiled Celt says: (881)
December 30, 2013 at 9:00 am

Geronimo – the reason I was questioning the month loan for Barrie MacKay was that normally people are sent on 6 month or season long loans – this one will mean not only will it only be for a month where he won’t be able to settle in but the month also ensures he is tied up during the January transfer window and would return afterwards. Means they have someone to come back to replace someone going to be sold…………
========================================================================
I think it worth remembering the Easdale connection with Morton in this affair. I really don’t think there would have been any problem in the loan wages being funded for a longer period. IMO the loan period is specifically for a month for a reason

My best guess is as a replacement for someone being shunted and I wouldn’t be surporised if others are put out on similar short loans mainly because the dressing-room atmosphere might get a bit corrosive and might disillusion younger less-hardened football players who might still actually be playing for the jersey. They will learn especially with spineless Allie and the spivs as role models but that’s in the not too distant future.

The only other thing is admin but, as I have mentioned previously, I just don’t know if the loan procedure provides some kind of useful fudge/dodge to prevent a contract break. One thing we can be sure of is that the SFA will interpret or create a rule to give the benefit of the doubt to its favoured son and woe betide any Scottish club who might want to sign a Rangers player that Ibrox or the spivs wish to retain.

One of the problems with corruption is that once you start down that road then there is no turning back and you are on a bumpy ride which eventually ends in Hell 😆

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ecobhoyPosted on11:56 am - Dec 30, 2013


buddy_holly says: (130)
December 30, 2013 at 10:13 am

Do you conceive of another way to flush the bryson interpretation into the open??
============================================================
I’m afraid that I simply reject the contrived scenario you have suggested on a number of grounds.

It is quite simple to ‘ flush the bryson interpretation into the open’. All it requires is one SMSM journo to ask the SFA some very simple questions such as: Is the Bryson Definition also held by the SFA and when was it actually formulated? Who was involved and is there any verifiable written evidence regarding its provenance?

Did the SFA ever advise member associations such as the SPL of the existance of the ‘definition’ and – bearing in mind Auldheid’s important point – why has nothing been done to alter the rules and procedures in line with the definition?

Simple is always the best way in my experience and if the SFA fail to comment then you immediately have a story. Is there a single journo in Scotland who will ask the question? Don’t be silly 🙄

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AllyjamboPosted on11:58 am - Dec 30, 2013


These McGregor tweets seem a bit strange, like someone who knows something but is afraid to say it, has had a few Chrissy drinks too many, and is online and feeling braver than normal, but not brave enough to come out and say what he really wants to say. The most likely explanation for this new found ‘bravery’ is indeed Super Salary’s (I just love that one) latest dog whistles and, as is often the case, people (McGregor) can only take so much. There is no sense to McCoist opening old wounds (but who said he had any sense?) but he clearly has some reason for it, well his masters do. I’d like to congratulate tilhotdogsbark for his deduction that McCoist is paid his ridiculous wage more for what he brings to the company, and it’s strategy, than for his football management abilities. I can’t think that I’ve seen that suggested before though it is glaringly obvious once mooted.

I wouldn’t be surprised if Wallace is a genuine appointment, and that he genuinely believes he is there to do the job he thinks he’s doing. Another patsy. I suspect he was given a remit to turn the company around, including the football club, and intends doing this in a proper fiscal fashion. He must be perplexed by McCoist’s comments and already asking ‘why me?’. Eventually he will realise, much sooner than McCoist does, that they are both being used by the puppet masters to create a situation they (the masters) want. My little suggestion of what this current part of the master plan might be is that with the requirements of RIFC, represented by Wallace, and those of TRFC, represented by Super Salary, being poles apart and unrealisable, a parting of the ways is the only solution. After all, the consideration of the shareholders must be the prime concern of the board (eventually).

From memory, the RIFC balance sheet showed that TRFC were indebted to the holding company to the tune of £30m, and I’d suggest that this is what the true owners of RIFC will want; valuing the heritable property at, say, £20m, and taking any income from the sale of other assets, including players, leaving ‘the club’ as nothing much more than a ‘brand’. And they’ll still want as much for the brand as brings the total to the £30m figure. At first I thought that £30m figure on the balance sheet was a message to would be purchasers of ‘the club’ of the amount Green’s mob wanted for the whole shooting match, club, Ibrox, MP etc, but now I’m not so sure. Offloading the club but keeping the heritable property would maintain a healthy fixed assets figure on the balance sheet while bringing in untold income for many years to come, so they might well be looking for £30m plus ten years projected income from anyone daft enough to want to buy the lot.

Anyway, something is undoubtedly afoot, and it’s not wearing a football boot 😳

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JimBhoyPosted on12:33 pm - Dec 30, 2013


I used to post frequently on Paul McC’s site so fairly new here. Would it be inappropriate on this site to post occasionally on boys football in Scotland.. It is often in stark contrast to the luxuries permitted to the professionals….

Out of interest are there any boys’ football coaches on here as regular posters.?

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jimlarkinPosted on12:49 pm - Dec 30, 2013


Recent posters have made us all aware that SevcoRangers do not have a list of their “titles or trophies” on the official website.

I wonder what the reason for that is?

In keeping with the “claim” to be the same Rangers, i couldn’t help but spit my tea out laughing when i read the follow following on the site

http://www.rangers.co.uk/club/history/club-history/item/505-the-beginning-of-glory

…”Rangers, under the watchful eye of their match secretary William Wilton, uniquely won every single League game in the 1898-99 season.
Eighteen games, eighteen victories, a maximum 36 points. They scored 79 goals at an average of more than four a game, conceding just 18.
Runners-up Hearts were 10 points adrift in the days when a victory was worth only two.
Rangers began with a 6-2 annihilation of Partick Thistle. The captain Robert Hamilton, who still holds the club record for Old Firm matches with 32 goals against Celtic, scored a hat-trick.
Hamilton, a schoolmaster, was to find the net a further 18 times that season.
With 10 straight victories under their belt, Rangers’ away game at Hibernian was the crunch. Hibs were being touted as the only serious rivals for the title and looked like it when they took a 2-0 lead.
Rangers squared the game in the second-half then conceded another goal. As the match see-sawed, Hamilton came to the rescue to make it 3-3.
With just seconds to go, Rangers were awarded a penalty. Up stepped Neil to ram the ball home. They had won with the last kick of the match”.

I wonder i
Who the “referee” was, and how did he get appointed to the job and that particular game and is his grandchild and great grandchild referees today ?

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ecobhoyPosted on1:07 pm - Dec 30, 2013


JimBhoy says: (13)
December 30, 2013 at 12:33 pm

I used to post frequently on Paul McC’s site so fairly new here. Would it be inappropriate on this site to post occasionally on boys football in Scotland.. It is often in stark contrast to the luxuries permitted to the professionals….
================================================
JimBhoy I’m sure you will recognise me as ecojon from Paul’s site and we had many dialogues over posts.

I for one – although not a MOD – would welcome your insights into boys football. I always found them useful on Scotslawthoughts and, at the end of the day, preparing boys and girls to be more than just skilled practitioners at football but to understand and embrace Sporting Integrity must be where the future of Scottish Football lies.

We have to one day be able to sweep aside the self-serving corruption of the SFA and its hangers-on at the senior levels and where better to start than with the younger players and those in charge of shaping their future in all respects whether they go on to play the game professionally or just for pleasure or even just as informed spectators.

Embedding the concept of fair-play and a rejection of cheating is a massive gift in this instant-gratification society which can help stabilise a young person’s moral compass in a sometimes bewildering world moving at a breakneck pace which can be very daunting while you are growing up and trying to find your way.

I was fascinated last night watching the BBC Alba piece on the youth set-up which has been established at Partick Thistle through a generous donation and I’m sure with the dedication being shown it will work well.

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bobferrisPosted on1:16 pm - Dec 30, 2013


One month loans are quite commonplace in the lower leagues. Albion Rovers had several last season and recently had Mark Shankland loaned from Ayr for a month. Hamilton’s Andy Ryan went to Brechin for a month earlier this season. On Barrie McKay, his lack of progress in the third tier sums up how ridiculous it was that he earned an Under 21 cap last season for his displays against the poorest teams in Scotland. He has the same number of caps as Ryan Gauld! Only in Scottish football.

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weescotsmanPosted on2:07 pm - Dec 30, 2013


Not just Scotland that the national FA has a favoured team then….

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25548409

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PhilMacGiollaBhainPosted on2:15 pm - Dec 30, 2013


Afternoon folks…
I understand that Super Ally may well have to adapt to having a much reduced backroom team in January.
The Austerity Axe is about to fall.
This is from an excellent source with a good track record.

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ecobhoyPosted on2:27 pm - Dec 30, 2013


weescotsman says: (5)
December 30, 2013 at 2:07 pm

Not just Scotland that the national FA has a favoured team then….
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25548409
———————————————————————————
What a fascinating and interesting tale and so close to home – defo well worth a read.

Especially pertinent: ‘ Heverton came off the bench for the last 15 minutes of a tame goalless draw. And this has proved enough to relegate a club who finished 12th. Portuguesa, in slightly confusing circumstances, were guilty of no more than an administrative lapse.

‘No sporting advantage was sought, nor gained from their actions. Is the full penalty really appropriate in these circumstances? Should their punishment really be exactly the same as one dished out to a club which knowingly fields an ineligible player in a crunch game and hopes to get away with it?

‘The STJD, Brazilian football’s sports tribunal, says that it cannot take any of these factors into account. The rules were broken and the penalty has been applied. But there is a glaring contradiction in their position. In the opinion of the STJD, Heverton’s red card offence was sufficiently grave to warrant an extra punishment.

‘So they can take into account the prevailing circumstances when punishing the player for the red card. Why, then, are they utterly unable to take into account any of the circumstances when punishing his erroneous selection for the game against Gremio?

‘This leads to a further question. If they really believe that circumstances cannot be taken into account, how do they profess to administer justice? Surely the principle of proportionality should apply – that the punishment should be proportional to the severity of the offence.

‘This principle is certainly part of the conventional justice system – and it would seem sure that is where this case is heading. Any private individual can bring this case before the law courts, and many Portuguesa supporters are preparing to do just that. The whole thing could drag on for months.’

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jimlarkinPosted on2:29 pm - Dec 30, 2013


weescotsman says: (5)
December 30, 2013 at 2:07 pm
1 0 Rate This

Not just Scotland that the national FA has a favoured team then….

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25548409

… “In the last game, with safety seemingly assured, Portuguesa fielded an ineligible player – they have been found guilty by the sports justice system, and their appeal was unsuccessful.
The penalty handed out to them is the loss of the point gained in the (drawn) match, plus the docking of a further three points. This is enough to drop them into the relegation zone.
There are two problems here. The first is that the team who benefit from this situation are Fluminense, the politically powerful club of the Rio elite.”

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Maybe they could try the “bryson interpretation”
…see how real judges -judge that particular “interpretation”

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