Reflections on Goalposts

ByDanish Pastry

Reflections on Goalposts

A recent autumn storm caused the destruction of the metal goal fame in our garden. The small goal with the weather-beaten net had fallen into disuse. But I liked it seeing it there on the grass. I suppose I half-expected, half-hoped, it would be used again. Once, it was a father and son thing and had been constructed carefully from a nice set of plans. At the time, it impressed both son and daughter no end. But that was then, this was now.

One of our trees, blown over by the recent high winds, caused the goal frame’s final demise. As I unscrewed the twisted metal I thought of the hours of innocent fun it had given us. It had been the scene of many goals and not a few great saves. My son, who is soon off to uni, smiled thoughtfully as I mentioned that this was the end of the ‘goalposts of childhood’. Perhaps he knew what I meant.

My own childhood goalposts had been ‘doon the back’. Drawn with chalk on the red brick of the ‘sausage wall’ at one end, and on part of the ‘wash hoose’ at the other. Many a league, Cup and international match was played out between those goals on the Dennistoun dirt. We once put on a parallel version of a historic England v Scotland match while the real match was being played at Wembley. Jim Mone sitting on one of the dykes had a transister radio to his ear. As we played our match he chalked up live score updates on the wall — our Twitter and FaceBook anno 1967. What a day.

We did use a pile of jackets up on the old Dennistoun cricket pitch, but only rarely. Mostly, we played on the red gravel surface at the Finlay Drive entrance. That pitch was fitted with real goalposts — like the ones they had at Hampden. Or so we imagined.

These sentimental memories of receding years accompanied my removal of the ruined metal goal frame. But, as you can imagine, it seemed an almost symbolic act. For fans of Scottish football the ‘goalposts’ that once defined the game of our football childhoods — have not only been moved, they’ve been been twisted and mis-shapen out of all recognition.

The past decades have seen a fundamental change in the way our game is run and governed, at home and abroad. Money is now king and sporting consideration is a luxury we sometimes have to put to one side — or at least, so we’re told.

At the risk of stating the obvious, sport, if it is to mean anything at all, has to be based on clearly defined rules and principles. These rules must be applied equally to all the participants, they are certainly not optional extras. However, to misquote and paraphrase George Orwell, ‘all teams are equal, but some teams are more equal than others’ — at least, when it comes to Scottish football.

The efforts by the SFA to re-interpret rules to fit the unfortunate circumstances surrounding the demise of Rangers FC in 2012 have left most of us scratching our heads. Much of the Scottish media has backed up the SFA’s efforts, something which has added to the general confusion and chaos. In fact, it’s become clear that the death of Rangers, as we knew them, has been such a traumatic event that it must be denied. The authorities and media seem to have been so besotted with one club that its loss is out of the question. And so, it’s been gifted a bizarre kind of immunity from liquidation and death that implies its on-going existence, long after it drew it’s final breath.

This situation has opened the door to a legion of businessmen on the make. They have been allowed to perpetuate the myth, with SFA blessing, that they ‘saved’ Rangers. And their unwavering message is, that they can only succeed if fans keep giving them their hard-earned cash. To those outside the blue bubble it looks like a huge con trick. If the only source of real money in football is the fans, then the Ibrox faithful have been royally fleeced.

How different it could have been if the former club had been allowed a dignified end. A year out of the game would probably have allowed fans to restart a newco of their own. They could have applied for entry into the professional leagues along with the other clubs waiting in line. Chances are they would have been given special dispensation, and walked straight into the bottom tier. Of course, they would have claimed to be the continuation of the spirit of the previous entity — but would anyone have argued against that? How different it could have been if the rules governing the game had been respected. The SFA may even have kept their dignity intact and the press not felt obliged to print half-truths, falsehoods and lies.

You’ve got to wonder why Dunfermline and Hearts fought so desperately to avoid liquidation. After all, the Scottish football authorities now seem intent on convincing us that liquidation has little or no effect on a football club. Even past sins, such as wrongly-registered players are as naught — if, at the time, they were thought to have been registered correctly. By this logic, we have to ask: if a ‘company’ running a ‘club’ bribes a referee, will retrospective action will be taken against the ‘club’. The players and the club, after all, will have done nothing wrong. And since the referee was not known to have been bribed, and not struck off, he was qualified to referee the match in question, at the time. Using the SFA thought process, the result would probably be allowed to stand. Personally, I’m not sure I follow SFA logic. They’ve ‘moved the goalposts’, and (you saw it coming) bent them into an unrecognisable shape.

Which brings me back to our garden. The old metal goal frame is waiting to be driven down to the local re-cycling centre. The twisted metal and worn-out net are useless. Ruined by forces beyond our control. There is no interest in a replacement at present. Perhaps, if we have grandchildren, they will show an interest in football. If they do, I’ll build a new set of goalposts. They’ll be straight and true, the way the goalposts of childhood should be. The way goalposts should always be.

About the author

Danish Pastry author

4,642 Comments so far

ianagainPosted on8:47 pm - Jan 25, 2014


Tif Finn says:

January 25, 2014 at 8:33 pm
This is the modern face of Scottish football.

Well a section of it.

http://willievass.photoshelter.com/gallery-image/250114-Rangers-v-Arbroath/G0000hsfCqJwPeR4/I0000UMbl2.qTT64/C0000ThqwCLASK_4

It’s frightening, in several different ways.
=================================

And why DK after his wee tet a tet with said busprenuurs in the bus shed at Inchinnan (remember that meeting) exited Glesca post haste and has been pontificating from a GREAT distance ever since, 😀

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Angus1983Posted on8:51 pm - Jan 25, 2014


Caption competition?

http://willievass.photoshelter.com/gallery-image/250114-Rangers-v-Arbroath/G0000hsfCqJwPeR4/I0000cLB9r.9hiCk/C0000ThqwCLASK_4

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ianagainPosted on9:06 pm - Jan 25, 2014


Angus1983 says:

January 25, 2014 at 8:51 pm

Caption competition?

http://willievass.photoshelter.com/gallery-image/250114-Rangers-v-Arbroath/G0000hsfCqJwPeR4/I0000cLB9r.9hiCk/C0000ThqwCLASK_4

signal to ref. Penalty required.

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pau1mart1nPosted on9:08 pm - Jan 25, 2014


Arbroath players should be ashamed of themselves.
in pic 33 they’ve almost made the linesman cry.

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hectorPosted on9:08 pm - Jan 25, 2014


@Angus1983 re Caption competition That’s ma jaiket aff the shoogly peg, sold ma shares am off.

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ianagainPosted on9:09 pm - Jan 25, 2014


Any of you who remember “old style” footie with plenty sliding tackles on a slippy pitch and wee bit of honest endeavour on both sides (with comic goalkeeping chucked in) might want to have a swatch at the ‘Well v aberloons on alba at 1030 ish

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Tic 6709Posted on9:10 pm - Jan 25, 2014


vv
Angus1983 says:

January 25, 2014 at 8:51 pm

Caption competition?

http://willievass.photoshelter.com/gallery-image/250114-Rangers-v-Arbroath/G0000hsfCqJwPeR4/I0000cLB9r.9hiCk/C0000ThqwCLASK_4
============================
Ok Ok I’ll get the pies.

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expatbhoyPosted on9:18 pm - Jan 25, 2014


It is unlikely BS left of his own accord so soon after a vote of confidence at the AGM, whatever information Wallace uncovered was significant to warrant his dismissal and one must assume the evidence was solid enough to persuade BS not to contest his dismissal.
I am not suggesting there were no politics involved behind the decision but it is unlikely this on its own would have have persuaded either the Board to change their minds or BS to go quietly.
How damaging this information may be to the viability of Rangers will be revealed sooner rather than later, but my guess is it will concern statements made by BS that are now considered false, and the only real statement of note involved a cash flow forecast. If this forecast was wrong then it makes Wallace look like an idiot when he stated Rangers would not run out of cash this season.

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Cluster OnePosted on9:28 pm - Jan 25, 2014


john clarke says:
According to the link below,( Parkhead streets in alpha order) two women were injured!.

http://parkheadhistory.com/?page_id=1483
Thanks for that.The playground of my youth 🙂

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jean7brodiePosted on9:38 pm - Jan 25, 2014


Angus1983 says:
January 25, 2014 at 8:51 pm

Caption competition?

http://willievass.photoshelter.com/gallery-image/250114-Rangers-v-Arbroath/G0000hsfCqJwPeR4/I0000cLB9r.9hiCk/C0000ThqwCLASK_4

That’s it , pockets stuffed with £50 notes and gold ingots.

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Exiled CeltPosted on9:49 pm - Jan 25, 2014


Interesting that instead of encouraging the young team playing for Hearts, Ryan Stevenson decided to go to Ibrox to watch a game – no issue with players watching games, but surely it must be when your own team is not playing?

http://willievass.photoshelter.com/gallery-image/250114-Rangers-v-Arbroath/G0000hsfCqJwPeR4/I0000xmeO6Rdh9.w/C0000ThqwCLASK_4

Given that he nearly joined the Sevco team along with Templeton, would make me wonder what is going on if I were a Hearts fan……………

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fergusslayedthebluesPosted on9:58 pm - Jan 25, 2014


Angus ,caption
This old Newcastle FC kit is murder to get on 😯

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SquigglePosted on10:04 pm - Jan 25, 2014


jean brodie on January 25, 2014 at
Caption competition?

http://willievass.photoshelter.com/gallery-image/250114-Rangers-v-Arbroath/G0000hsfCqJwPeR4/I0000cLB9r.9hiCk/C0000ThqwCLASK_4

That’s it , pockets stuffed with £50 notes and gold ingots.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Why are the jaikets black? This messes with my figurini pannini noodle. I mean, are traditions not sacred anymore??

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Danish PastryPosted on10:11 pm - Jan 25, 2014


Cluster One says:
January 25, 2014 at 9:28 pm (Edit)
2 0 Rate This

john clarke says:
According to the link below,( Parkhead streets in alpha order) two women were injured!.

http://parkheadhistory.com/?page_id=1483
Thanks for that.The playground of my youth
——————-

Thanks from me too. Surrounding areas included. Nice.

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CarntynePosted on10:34 pm - Jan 25, 2014


Greenock Jack says:
January 25, 2014 at 2:01 pm
0 2 Rate This

Regarding the ‘reported’ numbers on Nash, where did they come from?
________________________________________________________

Like most of Rangers financials they’re probably made up….

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Resin_lab_dogPosted on10:49 pm - Jan 25, 2014


Angus1983 says:
January 25, 2014 at 8:51 pm

4

2

Rate This

Caption competition?

http://willievass.photoshelter.com/gallery-image/250114-Rangers-v-Arbroath/G0000hsfCqJwPeR4/I0000cLB9r.9hiCk/C0000ThqwCLASK_4

_______________________________________________

“Rangers financial troubles are only temporary” says Alistair, as he nips off to William Hill with a pocketful of Ian Black’s betting slips (TRFC vs Arbroath, First scorer: Banjo)”

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JackBauerPosted on10:52 pm - Jan 25, 2014


http://twitter.com/scotonsunday/status/427209304387485696/photo/1

A continuation of the same club that went into liquidation. Really? I’m sure HMRC and all the creditors will be delighted to hear that. BDO might as well pack up and go home.

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Resin_lab_dogPosted on10:57 pm - Jan 25, 2014


Angus1983 says:
January 25, 2014 at 8:51 pm

4

2

Rate This

Caption competition?
http://willievass.photoshelter.com/gallery-image/250114-Rangers-v-Arbroath/G0000hsfCqJwPeR4/I0000UMbl2.qTT64/C0000ThqwCLASK_4

_______________________________________________

I didn’t even know *Hale and Pace were fans of TRFC, let alone directors.
(da two ron ron ron, da two ron rons)

* copyright claimed ‘-)

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jean7brodiePosted on11:05 pm - Jan 25, 2014


Squiggle says:
January 25, 2014 at 10:04 pm
—————————————————
Camouflage!!!
Reminds me of this old joke from Tommy Cooper:

“I went to buy some camouflage trousers the other day but I couldn’t find any.” 😀

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Danish PastryPosted on11:32 pm - Jan 25, 2014


cosmichaggis says:
January 25, 2014 at 6:11 pm (Edit)
34 0 Rate This

Ally McCoist thoroughly put to the sword by Michael Stewart and team, plus an excellent Bear caller – smashing stuff.
—————

Was that a Sun journalist on Sportsound Extra who was telling it like it is? If media pals are now ready to print McCoist’s failings and hypocrisy, it sounds very much as though he has outlived his overpaid usefulness. Will he be next to go?

I heard there were 40 applications for the now vacant Alloa job, so there’s probably plenty who’d be willing to work at Ibrox for a tenth of McCoist’s wage, and with a trimmed-down squad.

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jean7brodiePosted on11:37 pm - Jan 25, 2014


Danish Pastry says:
January 25, 2014 at 11:32 pm

…it sounds very much as though he has outlived his overpaid usefulness.

——————————————————————————–

Did you mean ‘uselessness’? 😉

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Tif FinnPosted on11:46 pm - Jan 25, 2014


Whichever entity failed to agree a CVA and went into liquidation is currently still in liquidation and likely to be so for quite some time. Once that is finalised it will be wound up.

It certainly isn’t the Rangers currently playing in the third tier of Scottish football. That doesn’t even make sense.

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coineanachantaighePosted on11:47 pm - Jan 25, 2014


upthehoops says:
January 25, 2014 at 2:08 pm
==================================

Excuse me but that is true of many countries if not most. We may have a different flavour of it here but in lots of other places you can get people with the attitude shown in for instance the expression, “he must be guilty or they wouldn’t have arrested him”.

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Danish PastryPosted on11:49 pm - Jan 25, 2014


jean7brodie says:
January 25, 2014 at 11:37 pm
1 1 Rate This

Danish Pastry says:
January 25, 2014 at 11:32 pm

…it sounds very much as though he has outlived his overpaid usefulness.

——————————————————————————–

Did you mean ‘uselessness’?
————

I see what you mean but was thinking more about his non-football, “I’m a legend and I say, buy your season tickets” type of usefulness.

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jean7brodiePosted on11:55 pm - Jan 25, 2014


Danish Pastry says:
January 25, 2014 at 11:49 pm
——————————————————————–
Ah yes, I agree 😀

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Greenock JackPosted on12:18 am - Jan 26, 2014


I note that Spiers and Jack Irvine have become closer since the former secured his regular BBC Scotland spot.

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John ClarkPosted on12:31 am - Jan 26, 2014


Cluster One says:
January 25, 2014 at 9:28 pm
‘….Thanks for that.The playground of my youth.’
———-
What we called the wate-rtanks – swimming pool shaped and sized reservoir kind of thingies(partly infilled with soil and rubble)- on the site,roughly, now occupied by St Michael’s Church -was a secondary playground for us , usually on our way to the swing park at Camlachie a wee bit further on from Society Street.
That very small swing-park had a ‘maypole’ sited so close to a wall that if you weren’t smart enough to fend off in time, you’d break every bone in your body! And ( we believed) the dire stink came from the glue factory which melted down old horses!

My young brother fell into one of the ‘watertanks’-we walked him dry before we went home, to avoid awkward questions about where we had been.!

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redlichtiePosted on12:46 am - Jan 26, 2014


Scottish Football needs a slightly stronger Arbroath.

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John ClarkPosted on12:53 am - Jan 26, 2014


redlichtie says:
January 26, 2014 at 12:46 am
‘…..Scottish Football needs a slightly stronger Arbroath..’
———-
I didn’t see BBC Alba ( note to Tam Cowan: it’s pronounced alapa!) so,fair-mindedly, I can’t pass comment on the referee’s award of a penalty.
(And, incidentally, my young American friends were quite taken by Arbroath (the town) when we took them there)

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John ClarkPosted on1:20 am - Jan 26, 2014


coineanachantaighe says:
January 25, 2014 at 11:47 pm
‘…“he must be guilty or they wouldn’t have arrested him”.’
—————
There was a time ( right up to quite recently) when certain Councillors in the City of Glasgow ( and elsewhere) were Justices of the Peace( known as ‘Baillies’), and sat on the bench ( football connection, so not totally off topic! 😀 ) in what was known as the Police Court.

It happened that a newly appointed Baillie (thick as two short planks, of course, but oxymoronically honest as the day is long) was on the bench for the first time.

In was wheeled a guy charged (jean7brodie,look away) with peeing in a close. He was found guilty.

The nervous Baillie asked the Clerk of Court what the sentence should be.

The clerk advised him of a string of previous convictions, and suggested that the sentence should be the maximum.

Whereupon, summoning up in his person the whole majesty of the law, the worthy baillie pronounced sentence.

” You have been found guilty of the charge against you. I hereby sentence you to death”

(ok, ok, I know. But there might be some young folk on the blog who have never heard this.
And it’s Rabbie night. Brilliant poet, but a bit Ally-like in his ability to ride different horses facing different directions)

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John ClarkPosted on1:31 am - Jan 26, 2014


Greenock Jack says:
January 26, 2014 at 12:18 am
‘…I note that Spiers and Jack Irvine have become closer since the former secured his regular BBC Scotland spot.’
———
Tell me more, please, because I must have missed something. For all his faults, I can’t think that Spiers would have any time, like most decent folk who avoid treading in dog poo, for the likes of Jack!

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easyJamboPosted on1:59 am - Jan 26, 2014


So Tom English had a go at Dave King for “talk is cheap” in his final article for Scotland on Sunday. It seems a fair assessment of the Lying King, but I’m a little disappointed he didn’t go further.

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spfl-lower-divisions/tom-english-dave-king-s-rangers-talk-is-cheap-1-3281687

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StevieBCPosted on2:02 am - Jan 26, 2014


Tom English article – not sure if mentioned already…
==========================================
Some Bampots mentioned earlier this week that English was leaving the Scotsman – with his final article today (?).

His piece was basically about Dave King who ‘talks a good game’ about the Ibrox club, but doesn’t do anything about getting involved.

If that was indeed English’s final article, (nothing mentioned to indicate that it was), then he certainly did not go out with all guns blazing: not even sure if it qualifies as a damp squib… 🙄

[Won’t bother posting link.]

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Danish PastryPosted on7:51 am - Jan 26, 2014


Greenock Jack says:
January 26, 2014 at 12:18 am
‘…I note that Spiers and Jack Irvine have become closer since the former secured his regular BBC Scotland spot.’
———
Like John Clarke, I would like to see some evidence.

One caller to Sportsound Extra supplied GS with the perfect resume of his journalistic ‘boldness’. It was along the lines of, GS will often start with a big headline statement but then spend the rest of his time on-air backtracking — because he gets frightened by the implications of what he has just said.

Spiers argument is that he doesn’t want to go overboard with his views. Critics would say he lacks the true courage of his convictions.

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upthehoopsPosted on7:54 am - Jan 26, 2014


easyJambo says:
January 26, 2014 at 1:59 am
So Tom English had a go at Dave King for “talk is cheap” in his final article for Scotland on Sunday. It seems a fair assessment of the Lying King, but I’m a little disappointed he didn’t go further.
===========================================
I’ve just read the article and it is decent, and at least is the opposite of the salivating ‘return of the King’ nonsense we read from most others. The article by Glenn Gibbons in yesterday’s Scotsman calling out McCoist was another example of a writer prepared to go against the party line.

I’m just listening to Sportsound Extra from yesterday, and the subject of McCoist getting an easy ride from the media is being discussed. Graham Spiers is happy to freely admit McCoist gets an easy ride and puts it down simply to him being ‘personable’. Stuart Cosgrove made the point that some Scotland Managers in the past were personable people but that did not prevent them from taking a media savaging.

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cowanpetePosted on9:57 am - Jan 26, 2014


Standing on the threshold of “ifandbuttery” but anyway:
If both Celtic and TRFC were to lose in the next round of the Scottish Cup, I am fairly sure this would be the first season ever that the Quarter-Finals of both Scottish Cup and Scottish League Cup were missing the two largest-supported teams in Glasgow [1]
Armageddon? Bring it on. You can be sure somehow the scottish press would see this as a Bad Thing though.

[1] one way of getting round using that no longer applicable but still over-used and wrongly-used term “Old Firm”

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BawsmanPosted on10:06 am - Jan 26, 2014


redlichtie says:
January 26, 2014 at 12:46 am
68 0 Rate This

Scottish Football needs a slightly stronger Arbroath.

====================================================

Scottish Football needs a slightly stronger referees

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bad capt madmanPosted on10:15 am - Jan 26, 2014


Did someone mention butteries??!!

Now I ken fit i want for breakfast!

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ecobhoyPosted on10:26 am - Jan 26, 2014


@ various comments on Tom King’s take on Dave King

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spfl-lower-divisions/tom-english-dave-king-s-rangers-talk-is-cheap-1-3281687
———————————————————————–
I’m actually a bit disappointed in the lack of balance and objectivity that Tom showed in his article in order to fit his story. It made the piece more of a tabloid rant than an article for a supposed ‘quality’ paper.

He talks about all the occasions that King could have intervened with an injection of rand but blithely ignores the fact that during the period mentioned King was up to his eyeballs in court action here in the UK and in South Africa – the fact that he was facing the possibility of decades in a South African prison may well have understandably diverted his attention from his beloved Rangers.

Not to mention the fact that if he had made moves to buy Rangers before now and the apparent finalisation of legal proceedings against him then I don’t think that even CO could have got him through a watered-down fit and proper person test.

As a flavour of what was being reported in May 2010 when 37 new charges were announced, in addition to the previous 322 tax fraud charges, the South African National Prosecuting Authority stated: ‘The main thrust of the allegations is based on the alleged deliberate manipulation of financial statements, financial reports and the recorded earnings of SOL with a view to enhancing the growth profile and share price of the company.

‘These alleged misrepresentations caused the publication of reports which allegedly falsely portrayed the growth potential of investments.’

There is also the fact that King has made it clear that he won’t put money in the pockets of the original Spivs who seized Rangers in 2012 and he appears to have made that judgement based on his own business experience and I can fully understand why he thinks that way 💡

Lest anyone misunderstand me – this is not a defence of Dave King. Anything but. I am merely pointing out that TE should have been much more professional. In a way he is playing to the obverse side of the same mass market audience that King is addressing.

So a poor effort and it might be Tom casting a weather-eye on his next billet – we shall see.

As to King he is either a ‘neanderthal’ as TE suggests or indeed he may be looking for a business opportunity should Rangers financially collapse and, for all I know, perhaps he or a company he or someone close to him might already be a major shareholder in Rangers as there are plenty of overseas-based mystery ones who control the club and it’s quite possible that not all of the new Board members are aware of their identity. Indeed perhaps no one now left at Ibrox has that knowledge.

Certainly I think the further division that King is stoking-up in the Rangers support could well lead to the final split between the ‘old ways’ and those interested in supporting a football club that lives within its means and doesn’t march to the old tunes of Glory Days now past. The visionaries hopefully can build a new club based on future footballing success without delusions of world domination – if they fail . . . well I think we all know how things will go and it’s beyond the remit of this blog to get into that discussion.

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davythelotionPosted on10:40 am - Jan 26, 2014


Listened to SSB. Stewart listened to the caller Frank who said: if Ally was the ‘Rangers’ man he claims to be, why does he draw down such an enormous salary whilst, at the same time, claiming that the club is on it’s knees and desperately needs supporters’ money and additional investment?
Speirs responded by asserting that Ally was just like everyone else in that, if you’re offered eye watering amounts of money you’d take it regardless. Effectively, according to Spiers, Ally was a victim of largesse!
Stewart pointed out that Ally was expected to behave in an exemplary way, yet here he was in the third tier on £750 000 (ex bonus & benefits)!
Since SDM, supporters, directors and coaching staff have encouraged the idea that they have been the passive victims of others’ mismanagement and skullduggery. This construct has been almost unanimously supported in the MSM. Hence the Scotsman ’25 points’ story.
In fact, the real story is that, despite being given every conceivable form of official (and unofficial) assistance, despite being allowed to ‘begin again’ debt free, despite an income of £35 -£40million, this club is, within the space of less than two years, contemplating administration and once again, short changing debtors.
If this were any other sphere of life the MSM would be calling foul.
Mind you, when he’s not bringing down threats on people doing their jobs, Ally is very personable!

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GoosyGoosyPosted on10:46 am - Jan 26, 2014


Will the end game see two new RFC clubs ?
One chronically underfunded club playing in an Ibrox they can`t afford ?
One reasonably funded club playing elsewhere?

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Tic 6709Posted on10:48 am - Jan 26, 2014


ecobhoy @10.26
‘As to King he is either a ‘neanderthal’ as TE suggests or indeed he may be looking for a business opportunity should Rangers financially collapse and, for all I know, perhaps he or a company he or someone close to him might already be a major shareholder in Rangers as there are plenty of overseas-based mystery ones who control the club and it’s quite possible that not all of the new Board members are aware of their identity. Indeed perhaps no one now left at Ibrox has that knowledge’.
=============
eco,how is it possible that the actual owners of the clumpany could not be known to someone on the board?

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TSFMPosted on10:54 am - Jan 26, 2014


Exiled Celt says:

Interesting that instead of encouraging the young team playing for Hearts, Ryan Stevenson decided to go to Ibrox to watch a game – no issue with players watching games, but surely it must be when your own team is not playing?

Given that he nearly joined the Sevco team along with Templeton, would make me wonder what is going on if I were a Hearts fan……………

______________________________________________

According to the Sun, he was at Ibrox for signing talks.

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ecobhoyPosted on11:12 am - Jan 26, 2014


Tic 6709 says:
January 26, 2014 at 10:48 am

eco,how is it possible that the actual owners of the clumpany could not be known to someone on the board?
==================================================================
The shareholders own a company whether it is a private or publicly registered one.

Many shareholders in many companies – for a variety of reasons – ‘hide’ their ownership of shares through a series of cut-offs using trusts and off-shore companies and lots of other mechanisms which are all perfectly legal as long as it isn’t for criminal activities.

The net result is that the true ownership is hidden behind an anonymous name like Blue Pitch Holdings and all that is publicly known is the shareholder’s agent with an address – often an offshore lawyer’s office – which has no traceable connection to the actual shareholder. Indeed the offshore lawyer might not know the ultimate shareholder’s identity as they could be receiving their instructions from a cut-out company or a series of them to ‘hide’ the true owner of the shares.

Obviously there is times when the ‘mystery’ shareholder might want to exert pressure on the company Board at an agm/egm and they often proxy their shares to another shareholder to do their bidding or indeed complete the written voting slips in advance – either way their actual identity isn’t disclosed.

An interesting question concerns the shares proxied to Easdale at the recent Rangers agm – which included those of Blue Pitch Holdings from memory – I firmly believe that Easdale doesn’t know the identity of the actual owner/owners of the proxied shares. I could be wrong but in my book knowing that the shares are held say by a front-company such as XYZ Holdings registered in the British Virgin Islands doesn’t fulfill my personal ‘test’ of actual ownership.

If Easdale does know the actual owners of the shares he was given proxies for then he knows more that the whole Rangers support and he should really consider letting them in on the secret.

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redlichtiePosted on11:23 am - Jan 26, 2014


Tic 6709 says:
January 26, 2014 at 10:48 am
eco,how is it possible that the actual owners of the clumpany could not be known to someone on the board?
===========================================================
The Board may know the names of the official shareholders e.g. XYZ Fund Ltd registered in the Caymans, but these could just be a front and the beneficial owner(s) thus disguised, possibly even behind a further tax haven registered company that holds the ownership of the named shareholder in RIFC .

Hence the speculation as to who is actually behind some of the large shareholders in RIFC. For all we know SDM, CW, DK and Uncle Tom Cobley could all hold important stakes in RIFC.

Scottish Football needs financial clarity – whatever happened to the SFA publication of clubs’ (companies?) financial information on their website?

Edit : apologies eco – our posts crossed…

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Tic 6709Posted on11:24 am - Jan 26, 2014


ecobhoy says:

January 26, 2014 at 11:12 am
======================
Thanks eco.+redlichtie

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SmugasPosted on11:25 am - Jan 26, 2014


A man of my advancing years shouldn’t allow media, however supposed quality, to rankle but amidst all the nonsense about immortal clubs I notice that Fergus still managed to save Celtic “from extinction.”

Headlines today should have been:

1/ Clarification from SPFL – newco solution to admins from now on means no promotion
2/ Dave King would fail a fit and proper test BUT he would be free to invest, just as any other would be, whether anonymously as Blue pitch or whoever or, more likely, publicly.
3/ Tom English would have been better served echoing Willie Miller’s point yesterday – Investors do not generally invest in loss making companies unless they feel that their investment can address the loss. It would be very unusual that they would invest to simply fund the loss continuing. It is however entirely common and possible that the investment was with a mind either to dictating a CVA procedure (see above) or gathering up assets in a land grab. But it should be reported as such.

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FIFAPosted on11:36 am - Jan 26, 2014


must now be embarressed after his comments last week,not for the first time this season that the fans have been treated to an exibition of poor quality football from their team and they think they are too good for that league,a big awakeaning is waiting,if they cant impress more against part timers then the delusion that McCulloch is under needs serious attention before their next step up is in place,McCoist has lamblasted his team on as we know on more than enough occasions this season that you would think they would keep their thoughts to themselves,but no,they should progress in the next round of the cup but its not a cert ,if they do the mumblings will get louder on how they are progressing ,until the next round draw is made.but there must be an underlying fear of when they will come up against a team of full timers,whoever they might be,McCoist must be preparing his comments for that day as his managerial skills will be there for all to see,if he cannnot get out before then.

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Tic 6709Posted on11:39 am - Jan 26, 2014


Re king,I don’t know if it’s as a result of his conviction or it’s standard procedure but i’m nearly sure there are restrictions on the amount of money he is allowed out of the country.

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redlichtiePosted on11:44 am - Jan 26, 2014


FIFA says:
January 26, 2014 at 11:36 am
must now be embarrassed after his comments last week….
=======================================
And McCoist too. Arbroath players this weekend gave their opponents the fullest respect appropriate by staying in Carnoustie the night before the game. And in Edinburgh, Dundee, Aberdeen, Glasgow, Stirling, Ayr, etc – everywhere their players live in fact.

Scottish Football looks forward to the next month or so.

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calums obsessionPosted on11:58 am - Jan 26, 2014


Andrew Smith in the Scotsman often has a pop at Glasgow teams, no matter the colour of their strip, I find it quite refreshing most of the time! Usually enjoy his lighter stuff too. Today in SOS Stramash column;

“Described last week as “oldco Rangers former director” and, with his protestations that the money-burning Ibrox club must spend beyond their earnings to mount a challenge to Celtic in future years, Dave King demonstrated precisely why the Oldco Rangers no longer exists.”

Why is this type of comment so difficult for so much of the Scottish football media to voice? I don’t think he has an agenda, slags Celtic merrily as well, just stating an obvious truth?

Calum

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coatbrigbhoyPosted on12:03 pm - Jan 26, 2014


Squiggle says:
January 25, 2014 at 10:04 pm

8

0

Rate This

jean brodie on January 25, 2014 at
Caption competition?

http://willievass.photoshelter.com/gallery-image/250114-Rangers-v-Arbroath/G0000hsfCqJwPeR4/I0000cLB9r.9hiCk/C0000ThqwCLASK_4

That’s it , pockets stuffed with £50 notes and gold ingots.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Why are the jaikets black? This messes with my figurini pannini noodle. I mean, are traditions not sacred anymore??
==============================================

Is it because when the club dies (again) they can wear them to the funeral

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upthehoopsPosted on12:17 pm - Jan 26, 2014


Danish Pastry says:
January 26, 2014 at 7:51 am

Spiers argument is that he doesn’t want to go overboard with his views. Critics would say he lacks the true courage of his convictions.
==============================================
I find Spiers difficult to fathom. Years ago he he was a lone voice speaking out about the true extent of sectarianism among the Rangers support, and for that he deserves credit. His analysis of the game in Scotland though, is generally steeped in a traditional, establishment type manner. He has positively salivated over people like Walter Smith, Alex McLeish, Ally McCoist, Campbell Ogilvie, and indeed a number of people who fall into the ‘real’ Rangers men category. It is equally noticeable that he does not appear to hold people from other clubs in the same esteem. In my view we will never get anywhere until Spiers and other media people who hold similar views come to accept there is nothing morally superior that automatically comes with being a ‘real’ Rangers man. Every club has its good eggs and bad eggs, but that is not the way of things in Scotland it seems.

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upthehoopsPosted on12:23 pm - Jan 26, 2014


FIFA says:
January 26, 2014 at 11:36 am

must now be embarrassed after his comments last week
========================================
His comments, in my view, were designed to try and belittle Celtic primarily, and then the other clubs he feels should have rolled over and allowed Rangers to tickle their tummy. He won’t be embarrassed in the slightest in my view. After all, he has never shown any concern whatsoever for the money his club deliberately withheld from the public purse and other creditors.

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John ClarkPosted on12:25 pm - Jan 26, 2014


The scope of powers granted to a nominee shareholder is governed by the confidential agreement that is established between the two parties. Depending on the terms of that contract, the shareholder may have the ability to buy or sell a portion of the shares without consulting the owner. More often, the owner retains all rights to buying and selling shares, while granting the shareholder privileges related to managing any voting rights that are associated with the shares. Even then, the owner may choose to cast the vote on specific issues, typically by providing the shareholder with instructions on how to vote.”

redlichtie says:
January 26, 2014 at 11:23 am
ecobhoy
——-
And, of course, there are companies which specialise in being Nominee Shareholders.
These guarantee to keep the actual shareholder’s name secret ( and only a court order can compel them to provide the names).
There is not anything necessarily crooked or dodgy.
Any one of us might want to keep our ownership of shares entirely private. So we can pay a Nominee a fee to accept our ‘shareholdership’ ( a suitable binding agreement to make sure that the shares are still legally ours,of course) and that nominee will follow our instructions as to voting.

A friend of mine has quite a respectable holding of Celtic Shares: he uses a New York nominee ( as do other big Celtic shareholders) because he simply doesn’t want others to know his business.

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iceman63Posted on12:35 pm - Jan 26, 2014


Is Stockbridge’s departure not just as simple as seeing the last two hundred grand left and manouvering himself to both pocket it and hightail out of town? Job done.
Why the bears see anything to celebrate in watching the last scoundrel flee with the last of the pennies is beyond me, frankly.

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iamacantPosted on12:58 pm - Jan 26, 2014


TSFM says:
January 26, 2014 at 10:54 am
5 1 Rate This

Exiled Celt says:

January 25, 2014 at 9:49 pm
Interesting that instead of encouraging the young team playing for Hearts, Ryan Stevenson decided to go to Ibrox to watch a game – no issue with players watching games, but surely it must be when your own team is not playing?
Given that he nearly joined the Sevco team along with Templeton, would make me wonder what is going on if I were a Hearts fan……………

______________________________________________

According to the Sun, he was at Ibrox for signing talks.
—————————————————————————————————————–

I heard he was signing one of their bricks to get his certificate

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DenPosted on1:36 pm - Jan 26, 2014


The Tom English piece on Dave King was, as already stated, let down by being a bit emotive. It was however good to see someone calling out the King over the water on his regular interventions and the ludicrous stuff in the last week in particular.

The significance of the article and that by Glenn Gibbons, is that the SMSM are not all obeying the 3 line whips from Ibrox and printing what they are given. I previously commented on Ally McCoist’s cowed demeanour at the press conference where the player’s pay cut was discussed. King and McCoist have been sacrosanct until now and are not used to being questioned, it is a new twist that has certainly caught Ally unprepared.

Ally’s tributes to King, Paul Murray and SDM seemed to be harking back to the good old days when the old values prevailed. I won’t say much about the contribution of these men to Rangers and Scottish Football: except disasterous . I see a parallel with the emergence of the names if Struth and Symon, who were previously seen as anachronisns. Living in the past in an attempt to blank out the present.

There is a changing of the guard (maybe guards) at Ibrox but unity of purpose is as far away as it has ever been, money is running out fast. These are interesting times.

I expect big upheavals quite soon (no inside knowledge, just what I observe).

This must be worrying time at the SFA which needs to be cleaned up urgently.

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Resin_lab_dogPosted on2:08 pm - Jan 26, 2014


Den says:
January 26, 2014 at 1:36 pm

1

0

Rate This

The Tom English piece on Dave King was, as already stated, let down by being a bit emotive. It was however good to see someone calling out the King over the water on his regular interventions and the ludicrous stuff in the last week in particular.

The significance of the article and that by Glenn Gibbons, is that the SMSM are not all obeying the 3 line whips from Ibrox and printing what they are given. I previously commented on Ally McCoist’s cowed demeanour at the press conference where the player’s pay cut was discussed. King and McCoist have been sacrosanct until now and are not used to being questioned, it is a new twist that has certainly caught Ally unprepared.

Ally’s tributes to King, Paul Murray and SDM seemed to be harking back to the good old days when the old values prevailed. I won’t say much about the contribution of these men to Rangers and Scottish Football: except disasterous . I see a parallel with the emergence of the names if Struth and Symon, who were previously seen as anachronisns. Living in the past in an attempt to blank out the present.

There is a changing of the guard (maybe guards) at Ibrox but unity of purpose is as far away as it has ever been, money is running out fast. These are interesting times.

I expect big upheavals quite soon (no inside knowledge, just what I observe).

This must be worrying time at the SFA which needs to be cleaned up urgently.
_____________________________________________

Basically, some of the :slamb: are wandering away from Jack Irvine’s pen?
What does it mean, and why now?
Intriguing.

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ianjsPosted on2:27 pm - Jan 26, 2014


Musketeer on RM looking for “Search personnel to find a GCC geotechnical report on Westhorn”
any applicants? 😆 🙄

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Araminta Moonbeam QCPosted on2:42 pm - Jan 26, 2014


The sudden outbreak of articles in the SMSM belatedly questioning what is going on at Ibrox is like the bat signal for some form of ‘insolvency event’. Everything is feeling a bit February 2012.

Journos will be queuing up to tell you that they told you so. Yes, Keith ‘scoop’ Jackson, I’m talking to you.

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upthehoopsPosted on2:44 pm - Jan 26, 2014


Den says:
January 26, 2014 at 1:36 pm
=========================
It was interesting to hear Michael Stewart say on Sportsound Extra that McCoist had phoned him over comments he made, and basically told him if it didn’t stop there was going to be an issue. Who, exactly, does McCoist think he is? Incidentally, given the performance of Michael Stewart on the show, McCoist’s attempts to silence him have not worked in the slightest.

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FIFAPosted on2:52 pm - Jan 26, 2014


ianjs
Stand by for the follow up request from the musketeer asking if someone can explain what the Geographical report actualy fracken means.

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John ClarkPosted on2:56 pm - Jan 26, 2014


(I notice now that I made something of a pig’s ear in the lay-out of my post at 12.25 today. Sorry about that:must have been caught in two minds between cutting and pasting a link and composing my own version).

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Angus1983Posted on3:23 pm - Jan 26, 2014


calums obsession says:
January 26, 2014 at 11:58 am

Andrew Smith in the Scotsman …
——
I agree – Mr Smith often makes jibes which I assume are missed by the RM-type hordes (otherwise his name vould also be in ze book).

As part of his match report in today’s SoS, aside from noting how woeful Rangers were yesterday and mentioning that the penalty could well have been a bit dubious, he says that Rangers have recently been “hawking” Mr David Templeton around any club that would listen in an attempt to make back £150K of the £750K they recently spent on him.

Hadn’t heard previous stories about such “hawking” of players or, indeed, figures like that. I wonder if Mr Smith and others know of such behaviour or whether he just made that one up in his usual mischievious way.

(P.S. For all the downers people here seem to have on the Scotsman/SoS, I find their fitba coverage much better than the Glasgow press – Andrew and Aidan Smith write very well for a start. And at least the paper is biased towards Hibs rather than the usual suspects. Aidan Smith (source of much of the Hibsness) has a regular feature whereby he interviews vintage players – John Brownlie this week – which is highly readable.)

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upthehoopsPosted on3:25 pm - Jan 26, 2014


Araminta Moonbeam QC says:
January 26, 2014 at 2:42 pm
==============================
Insolvency events normally worry the hell out of football clubs. Just witness the austerity measures at Hearts and Dunfermline, not to mention the hard work of many people to pull them through to the other side.

Then of course we have the club from Ibrox. Only recently the head of the SFA informed us how important they are to the Scottish game, and also singled them out for best wishes in terms of becoming successful. Clearly the threat of an insolvency event matters not a jot to the club from Ibrox.

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upthehoopsPosted on3:29 pm - Jan 26, 2014


Angus1983 says:
January 26, 2014 at 3:23 pm
Andrew Smith in the Scotsman …
——
I agree – Mr Smith often makes jibes which I assume are missed by the RM-type hordes (otherwise his name vould also be in ze book).
=========================================
Andrew Smith is an ex editor of the Celtic View. I’m sure this is not unknown to the hordes.

Re the Scotsman I was told recently by someone from the print industry the word is it will become an online only publication sooner rather than later. We’ll see.

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ecobhoyPosted on3:35 pm - Jan 26, 2014


Angus1983 says:
January 26, 2014 at 3:23 pm

P.S. For all the downers people here seem to have on the Scotsman/SoS, I find their fitba coverage much better than the Glasgow press
——————————————————————————————————–
In the 30/40 years where I have had the ability and knowledge to be able to comment on informed and unbiased news coverage I have to say that the Scotman beat the Glasgow Herald out of the park.

It may well be that that was because, unlike another Glasgow ‘institution’ based in Glasgow in addition to the Glasgow Herald, it didn’t afaik hire people dependant on their religious affiliation or even perceived religious affiliation.

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ecobhoyPosted on3:42 pm - Jan 26, 2014


ianjs says:
January 26, 2014 at 2:27 pm

Musketeer on RM looking for “Search personnel to find a GCC geotechnical report on Westhorn”
any applicants?
”””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””’
Possibly D’Artagnan or one of his side-kicks. I intended to do a post today on issues concerning the geotechnical report but something much more important, like a football game, got in the way 😆

What fascinates me is another post which states that it should be easy enough to get the report by greasing a few palms – these people have no morals ❗

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futbolPosted on4:08 pm - Jan 26, 2014


upthehoops on January 26, 2014 at 2:44 pm

It was interesting to hear Michael Stewart say on Sportsound Extra that McCoist had phoned him over comments he made, and basically told him if it didn’t stop there was going to be an issue. Who, exactly, does McCoist think he is? Incidentally, given the performance of Michael Stewart on the show, McCoist’s attempts to silence him have not worked in the slightest.

Hang on, we have a manager* openly threatening people now?

*apologies to all other managers

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ecobhoyPosted on4:11 pm - Jan 26, 2014


ianjs says:
January 26, 2014 at 2:27 pm

Musketeer on RM looking for “Search personnel to find a GCC geotechnical report on Westhorn”
any applicants?
============================================
Just had a look at the post you mention – seems to me that desperation is setting-in. I wonder if they have been advised by the European Commission to take a hike on the laughable State Aid claim? As a party making the complaint I assume they would be told before it was publicly released.

Amazing how the Bears are being diverted in numerous directions to send emails, make FoI requests, contact MPs and phone their aged granny.

Meanwhile: Quiet Flows the Clyde as Ibrox is stripped Bare or should that be Bear 😀

Desperate times are looming but the Bears seem to be obsessed with the success of another football team. Och well that’s how it should be IMO 🙄

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FIFAPosted on4:12 pm - Jan 26, 2014


Ecobhoy
To grease a few palms to obtain the reports ,they realy are the pits these people
Ahl get ma donkey jaicket and lantern and phone Charlie ,he has a lot of knowledge on this

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torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958)Posted on4:14 pm - Jan 26, 2014


As part of his match report in today’s SoS, aside from noting how woeful Rangers were yesterday and mentioning that the penalty could well have been a bit dubious, he says that Rangers have recently been “hawking” Mr David Templeton around any club that would listen in an attempt to make back £150K of the £750K they recently spent on him.

————————-
Angus,
Did he mention if any club is willing to match the reported £8k per week Mr Templeton earns,that is,if Mr Templeton is willing to walk away without some sort of payment?.

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SquigglePosted on4:31 pm - Jan 26, 2014


On the geotech report, do they have someone on standby to read/understand what it says. Of course the sevco club historian could help in this respect, and might even have been able to shoot this squirrel before it ran. If he had a mind to of course.

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Tif FinnPosted on4:44 pm - Jan 26, 2014


As someone said the simple answer is probably the correct one.

Stockbridge knows exactly what is happening and is about to happen. He knows exactly how much money is left, how much is coming in through sales and how fast it is running out. He can probably predict to the day if and when the money will run out.

He has taken what he can personally and left the club. He has done this in the knowledge that if the club becomes insolvent then he is the person who is going to be held responsible. They need a scapegoat and he will be it.

The Rangers support are seeing his departure as a positive thing, I see it as a portent of further black days ahead for them.

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